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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

East Coast Braces for Hurricane Isabel; Bush Clear Skies Initiative Gets Mixed Reviews; Clark Likely to Run for President

Aired September 16, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone.
It's not often we can begin Tuesday night's program by telling you what the top stories will be on Wednesday night's program but tonight appears to be one of those nights.

Tonight, we have just hints, forecasts if you will, but we're pretty sure of their accuracy. For example, while he hasn't announced you can bet that Wesley Clark will be a major story tomorrow after he officially says he's running for the White House. He'll be our guest here tomorrow night.

And, while Hurricane Isabel is still hundreds of miles from shore she's drawing a bead on the Outer Banks of North Carolina and by this time tomorrow it will be all but certain just where and when she will strike.

So, the whip begins with the anticipation of the latter. In Virginia Beach, Virginia, CNN's Jeanne Meserve starts us off, Jeanne a headline from you tonight.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: She's big. She's mean and she is coming. Along much of the East Coast, people are getting ready or getting out of her way -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jeanne, thank you.

Next to Little Rock, Arkansas, a double headline, I don't think we've ever had that. Jonathan Karl has the duty -- Jon.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Headline number one, Aaron, General Wesley Clark is running for president and, although he hasn't raised any money yet and he is just now meeting some of the people that will be running his campaign he is already shaking up the race and overshadowing headline number two and that's that Senator John Edwards formally kicked off his presidential campaign, a campaign he's already been running now for many months.

BROWN: Jon, thank you.

On to the White House where the president today faced supporters and critics of his policy on the environment, our Senior White House Correspondent John King here with us again tonight, John a headline from you. JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president is tapping into concerns over the struggling manufacturing economy in an effort to sell some controversial environmental proposals. Mr. Bush says his approach would bring cleaner air and protect jobs. Most major environmental groups disagree -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you.

And, finally, California and yet another twist in the twist and turns of the California recall story, Kelly Wallace in Los Angeles, Kelly a headline.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, will there be an election next month or next year? We still don't know the answer but today a federal appeals court signaled it could reconsider the controversial decision to halt the election. The court asked that legal briefs in the case be filed by tomorrow afternoon -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kelly, thank you. We'll get details in a few moments from all of you.

Also coming up on the program tonight we'll talk with John Edwards, the freshman Senator from North Carolina who, as Jon Karl just mentioned, formally launched his campaign today.

And later in the program, a report from CNN's John Vause on a man who is something of a political phenomenon himself, certainly a remarkable political survivor, Yasser Arafat, who has gone from relative obscurity back to center stage even to his rivals.

And, even though roosters everywhere are saying give that thing a rest already, our rooster stays for now. Tomorrow's papers will wrap it all up, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin with Hurricane Isabel which is weaker tonight but still potentially deadly and still on track to do an awful lot of damage not to mention disrupting millions of lives.

We begin with CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE (voice-over): In the face of Isabel, flight, 100,000 people on North Carolina's Outer Banks told to leave as the governor declares a state of emergency.

GOV. MIKE EASLEY (D), NORTH CAROLINA: The storm has been downgraded to a category two but still it's generating winds of 105 plus miles per hour and we are anticipating rainfall now of up to eight inches in eastern North Carolina.

MESERVE: No mandatory evacuations in Virginia but there too concern about the approaching wind and rain and storm surge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a big storm even a northeaster we get water three feet deep in the street. This area doesn't drain and it's low.

MESERVE: In flood prone downtown Norfolk sandbags are already being strategically placed.

MAYOR PAUL FRAIM, NORFOLK: The city has taken every reasonable step, every reasonable precaution.

MESERVE: The federal government, along with states and localities, continues to ramp up preparations for Isabel and her aftermath. Hospitals are making sure they're stocked up for a long haul.

MIKE POORE, VP, DEPAUL MEDICAL CENTER: We have all the supplies and everything that we need to be self sustained for at least 72 hours.

MESERVE: As far north as Massachusetts, boats are being hauled out of the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just made the decision to get ready for the storm just in case. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

MESERVE: In areas further south, some boat owners battled already turbulent surf to move to safer harbors but others were just tying things down as best they could.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite frankly we really don't have anywhere now to move to. It's a little too late. Everywhere is filled up.

MESERVE: But the approach of Isabel had its upside, a bounty of fish.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe the storm is pushing all the fish (unintelligible).

MESERVE: Also lured to the shore surfers. The water was a bit choppy for a competition Tuesday but there were high hopes for the days ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We pray for hurricanes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: Here in Virginia, officials watch and wait. At this point it looks like Isabel, like so many hurricanes before her, may not live up to her advance billing. As one official said, we keep getting dressed for the wedding but we never get married. He said that however, Aaron, with relief, back to you.

BROWN: And a sandbag in his back pocket. I mean the plan is, we'll talk more about this in a moment, it hits in North Carolina or on the Outer Banks and then moves up the coast. When do they expect to get socked where you are?

MESERVE: They're expecting that they'll start feeling the effects of this in a big way tomorrow evening and then midday Thursday the effects will be more apparent.

There's also going to be a high tide in the afternoon on Thursday. That's going to complicate the possible storm surge here. There's a lot of valuable real estate right on the beach that could be severely damaged if the water gets very high.

But officials said to me what they're really expecting at this point, given the forecast is a lot of rain and they're very worried about flooding here in the state of Virginia -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jeanne, thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve who's in Virginia Beach tonight.

Tracking hurricanes is science but it remains an imperfect one, of course. It's also a whole lot better than it used to be and so we're a whole lot more comfortable with the best guesses of the experts. We talked with Max Mayfield, the Director of the National Hurricane Center a very short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Has there been any significant change in either the strength of the hurricane or the hurricane track in the last, oh let's say five, six hours?

MAX MAYFIELD, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: Aaron, the good news is that there has not been any change. There may be some fluctuations here between now and landfall in intensity but the track has been very consistent for a few days now.

BROWN: Why is that good news?

MAYFIELD: Well, we just don't like to have, you know, the flip flop thing on tracks. We call it the windshield wiper effect and that's not a nice thing to do to emergency managers or to the marine community when we have an inconsistent forecast. I'm just saying that we do have a consistent forecast and no surprises I guess is what I should have said.

BROWN: So, in that respect can you say now with -- well you tell me, how much confidence at what point it hits land, where it hits land, and with what intensity it hits?

MAYFIELD: We've done everything we can to ensure a good forecast. We've been flying the NOAA jet aircraft not through the hurricane but in the environment around the hurricane since Saturday. In fact, we've had them on back-to-back missions here for the last couple of days.

They'll fly for eight or ten hours, land, refuel, another crew gets onboard flying again and all that data goes into the computer models and most of the better models now are still in pretty good agreement headed toward the Outer Banks of North Carolina.

So, we're still having that center come onto the coast near Noon on Thursday with the tropical storm force winds arriving there late tomorrow night, probably around midnight.

BROWN: And how long will it stay in that area? How many hours will it be hellacious there?

MAYFIELD: It will start picking up forward speed and I think by, you know, if the storm force winds get there when we think they will by around midnight tomorrow night the condition will continue to go downhill starting in North Carolina and progressing up, you know, northward as the hurricane moves inland.

Thursday is not going to be a very good day through eastern North Carolina, eastern Virginia, the Delmarva, even up through Maryland and then it will continue, the hurricane will weaken but the rainfall will spread, you know, through West Virginia, Western Pennsylvania, western New York and up into Canada by Saturday.

BROWN: What causes a hurricane in this case to go from a category five, which it was a few days back to a category three?

MAYFIELD: Well, I wish I knew for sure the answer to that. We think the upper level winds were pretty strong from the west and that provided what we call wind shear. It also likely (unintelligible) a little dry air on the western side. We still have a long way to go to understand these fluctuations in intensity.

BROWN: We are, we, that would be you in this case you know a whole lot more than you did a dozen years ago but I gather there's still a fair amount to know about why these storms and how these storms form and move and gain or lose strength.

MAYFIELD: We do a lot better on track forecasting. In fact the three-day forecast there is about half of what it was when I first came to the hurricane center 31 years ago. We do not have big improvements in intensity forecasting. We've identified that as the number one area to the research community where we need help and there are some very good people working on that now but we have a long way to go.

BROWN: It's always good to talk to you but we always talk to you under such difficult times. It's nice to see you again.

MAYFIELD: Thank you, sir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Thank you, Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center.`

There is something about a hurricane that seems to bring out the gambler in some people, people who otherwise wouldn't stop for a game of bingo much less the dollar slot machines are all of a sudden betting their lives on forces not even experts can fully predict and it's not always who you'd expect.

Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A perfect day for yard work for Amos Hall and his wife Doris.

DORIS HALL: We just thought we'd get the yard mowed in case before the rain came.

CANDIOTTI: Even with Isabel possibly knocking on their door the retirees, married 56 years, are fairly sure they'll ride out the storm inside their vacation home.

(on camera): They're talking about an eight to ten foot storm surge. Does that worry you?

D. HALL: Sure.

CANDIOTTI: So, if you stuck around what would happen?

AMOS HALL: Well, it won't come over in the yard I don't think. It won't be over this far.

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Don't look for any hurricane shutters either.

(on camera): You don't have any boards up, no hurricane shutters, not protecting the house in any way, how come?

A. HALL: No. Well, when the good Lord takes me, we're going to let them take care of that for us. In other words, he's going to calm the storm down for us.

D. HALL: We're hoping.

CANDIOTTI: In the 30 years they've been coming here from their other home in Virginia, the Halls say they've avoided any flooding. Their home is just across the road from the ocean and a waterway is behind them. If the Halls stay they say they've got plenty of food.

D. HALL: Well, we have enough to last us for weeks.

CANDIOTTI: And, they suggest, a safe place, their living room.

D. HALL: Stay here because we don't have any windows in this room. It's in the middle of the house.

CANDIOTTI: A few blocks away, Lee Sensabaugh (ph) is probably going to leave. He's boarding up his house, trying to take Isabel in stride.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just going to blow and rain and it will be gone. We'll clean up and go on.

CANDIOTTI: Many are following a mandatory evacuation order for the Outer Banks. The Halls understand the order but...

A. HALL: Well, it didn't bother me. CANDIOTTI (on camera): If residents don't evacuate police won't force them out but if they need help authorities say they might have to wait to get it. As for the Halls if power goes out they don't have a portable radio and they don't have a phone.

Susan Candiotti CNN, Kill Devil Hills, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the latest twists and turns in the California recall story.

We'll also check on the president's environmental message and match that against the president's environmental record.

And later, we talk with the newest formally announced presidential candidate Senator John Edwards, a break first.

From CNN, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: To his critics, to his critics there is something Orwellian about President Bush lobbying for a bill called the Clear Skies Initiative, a proposal that by the way is supported by some major industries that pollute a great deal.

The plan would cap certain smokestack emissions but allow cleaner plants to still dirtier ones the right to pollute, if you will. It would also let older plants modernize without necessarily reducing emissions.

Many of these plants and workers and voters happen to be in states the president narrowly lost in the 2000 election so there is some skepticism. There's also honest disagreement on the merits.

Here's our Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president calls it the Clear Skies Initiative and makes it sound anything but controversial.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll have more affordable energy, more jobs, and cleaner skies.

KING: And in case you missed the jobs argument...

BUSH: One way to make sure that the job supply is steady and growing in the long term is to have a realistic energy policy coupled with realistic environmental policy.

KING: The president says his initiative would cut air pollution from power plants by 70 percent over the next 15 years, dramatically reducing emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, and mercury. But major environmental groups say the cuts in pollution and dangerous emissions would be more dramatic under existing law and say the administration initiative does nothing to reduce carbon dioxide emissions they blame for global warming.

ANNOUNCER: We know how to stop them but the government won't. They're dirty power plants.

KING: The president's recent focus on environmental initiatives is in part to push Congress to act and in part an effort to raise his profile on, an issue Democrats consider a major Bush weakness.

Mr. Bush's higher profile is also stirring up his critics who say this White House was too cozy with industry groups in drafting its energy policy and is putting the environment at risk by easing pollution standards on power plants and proposing oil and gas exploration at the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and other sensitive areas.

ERIC SCHAEFFER, FORMER EPA OFFICIAL, ENVIRONMENTAL INTEGRITY PROJECT: This administration is essentially operating as an agency of the energy industry to try to change the laws that we were trying to enforce.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now it's no accident that the president nowadays is focusing much more on what he says is the needed balance between the economy and the environment. Here at the White House there is little hope of winning over what they call the liberal leaning major environmental groups but the White House does believe, especially at this moment, there is more sway to the jobs argument because, Aaron, of the struggling manufacturing sector.

BROWN: In listening to the president today he mentioned manufacturing jobs so we'll just ask the question is there any evidence that any of these jobs, these manufacturing jobs, and millions have been lost, have been lost because of pollution-related issues?

KING: The president could argue that more would be lost. There have been some debates from unions at times have argued that manufacturing jobs are lost by regulations not necessarily just environmental regulations but other government regulations. The environment and the job argument about it is one of the most contested, heated political debates. You can go ten different places and get ten different answers.

BROWN: That helps. Just to underscore something that you were saying at the end, the White House plan here I gather is not that they expect to win on the environment it's just not to lose too badly?

KING: From a political standpoint absolutely and, again, if you go state by state, which is how you win presidential politics, this president is not so much worried about what the Sierra Club thinks or what the National Resources Defense Council thinks. He's worried about what the voters of West Virginia, had he lost West Virginia last time he would not be president, he's worried about what they care in West Virginia and he'd very much like to win Michigan, Pennsylvania, states with big coal fire plants, big manufacturing bases. So, the president's looking to minimize his hurt on the environment and maximize what he can on the economy.

BROWN: John, thank you. The season is on, John King, our Senior White House Correspondent.

On to California where it is never, ever safe to say that stranger things have happened, after all there's always tomorrow and there's a recall election hanging in the balance and, yes, stranger things have happened than an appeals court that put the election on hold yesterday turning around and possibly changing its mind in a week.

Here again, CNN's Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice-over): One day after sending the already chaotic recall race into turmoil, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit makes another move. It calls for arguments to be filed by Wednesday over whether more justices on the court should reconsider this controversial decision by three judges on the panel, all Democratic appointees, to halt the election.

ELIZABETH GARRETT, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: It wouldn't surprise me that other members of the circuit who have a different view of the law, those judges would have said hey wait a minute. Let's have more of us listen to this case and make this decision.

WALLACE: The California secretary of state abruptly canceled a news conference saying the state would file its argument with the Ninth Circuit. The state has said the election should be held October 7th.

Proponents of the recall movement who had planned to go immediately to the U.S. Supreme Court reversed course saying they too would go to the Federal Appeals Court and some analysts predicted the ruling could very well be overturned.

GARRETT: Remember every judge who has heard this case, except for the three judges, said the election should go on.

WALLACE: But if it's delayed who wins, who loses? Most analysts believe the GOP frontrunner Arnold Schwarzenegger would lose by coming under increased scrutiny in a longer campaign but the actor turned candidate doesn't think the election will be put off.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I know that on October 7th we will recall Gray Davis and say hasta la vista baby.

WALLACE: A delay could help embattled Governor Gray Davis' efforts to defeat the recall.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: In this wild hatter's ride, the conventional wisdom has turned out to be in error almost every time so nobody knows for sure.

WALLACE: So, as they wait for answers they work for votes, David trying to excite the base with Democrat Jesse Jackson and GOP candidate Schwarzenegger and State Senator Tom McClintock meeting separately with businessman Peter Ueberroth lobbying for the former candidate's endorsement.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: Legal analysts and campaign officials tell us they believe in the next 48 to 72 hours we should know if the Federal Appeals Court will decide to hold a hearing to reconsider this decision and in the meantime the thinking is while this is still in the hands of the Ninth Circuit the U.S. Supreme Court, which made the controversial decision to bring an end to the 2000 presidential race, will stay far and clear from this case -- Aaron.

BROWN: Two questions, did Mr. Ueberroth do anything or did he just meet? Did he endorse anyone?

WALLACE: No, he is non-committal so far. He said he won't make a decision until he meets with all the major candidates. He still has to meet with the major Democrat Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante.

BROWN: And he is going to do that?

WALLACE: He is planning to do that, yes.

BROWN: OK, in the meantime are ads running and people making campaign appearances and all the rest as if the court had never ruled?

WALLACE: Yes. They're acting as if, Aaron, as if this election will be held in October. The ads are running. The candidates are out there but the attention, look at our report, all of the attention right now is on the legal proceedings, what exactly is going to happen and so it's unclear who is going to be hurt most by the attention being on the legal proceedings and not on the candidates (unintelligible).

BROWN: Well, in that regard not honestly to quibble here but there's always a difference in the way a national newscast looks at what is at the end of the day a statewide race, a statewide story and how local papers, local TV are covering it. I assume they're still covering massively both the candidates and the courts.

WALLACE: They certainly are, Aaron, absolutely but if you looked at the front page of the "Los Angeles Times," even if you looked at the local newscast, the top stories included stories on the legal proceedings, what's going to happen next and then, of course, they follow the candidates around.

Governor Davis, of course, with Democrats including Florida Senator Bob Graham, Arnold Schwarzenegger at town hall meetings, so they are getting the coverage but, again, a lot of the attention right now on what will happen next.

BROWN: Well, the court's got to decide. We got to make reservations to get out there. Thank you, Kelly, Kelly Wallace in Los Angeles tonight.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, yet another unofficial candidate makes it official. I know you thought it was official but it wasn't until today and we'll talk to John Edwards after the break.

This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We confess there is something undeniably strange about a person who has raised millions of dollars, taken part in three debates, been in New Hampshire about 15 zillion times, coming out and saying, oh yes, by the way I'm running for president, strange yes, unusual no.

By now most of the Democratic candidates have had more coming out parties than the Hilton sisters and in that respect Senator John Edwards is hardly alone. The lone exception is the man who didn't make an announcement today but will, both stories now from CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice-over): The general is in. Sources close to Wesley Clark say he will make it official on Wednesday and although Clark won't confirm it himself, in an interview with Judy Woodruff he made it clear he thinks he has the right stuff to be president.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: I had some incredible experiences, both in terms of developing leadership and in terms of helping soldiers and families and finally really being able to influence national policy and helping to lead this country in its challenges abroad.

KARL: Like the last Democrat who won the White House, Clark's campaign will be based in his hometown Little Rock, Arkansas, and run by a small army of Clinton/Gore campaign veterans, including Eli Siegel, Don Fowler, Jr., Ron Klain and Mark Fabiani, all of whom worked on either the Clinton or Gore presidential campaigns. And, Clark starts with words of praise, although not an endorsement, from the former president who spoke with CNN over the weekend in Iowa.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think he'd be quite good. He's a very smart man. I've known him since 1965. He's a good man. He's a smart man. He served our country well. He was fabulous in the Bosnian peace process in Kosovo.

KARL: Clark's campaign may make life difficult for the other candidates, like North Carolina Senator John Edwards who found his carefully orchestrated official campaign kickoff overshadowed by news of Clark's decision and Edwards' effort to position himself as the candidate who could win in the south may be complicated by Clark an Arkansas native.

John Kerry is affected too, no longer able to say he is the only military veteran in the race and Howard Dean may find new competition for those looking for a Washington outsider.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: But Clark also starts with some serious disadvantages. His rivals for the nomination have been campaigning for months, building organizations, and raising money, whereas Clark is just now here in Little Rock meeting for the first time some of the people that will be running his campaign. And he hasn't raised any money yet, although his supporters claim they have commitments of over $1 million so far -- Aaron.

BROWN: Not to pooh-pooh $1 million, but I think the president is shooting for about $175 million. So $1 million doesn't get you very far.

KARL: Yes.

BROWN: You know particularly well those candidates who are members of Congress. What do they and their staffs think of the Wes Clark candidacy?

KARL: Well, there are two schools of thought.

One is that he simply is getting into this too late to really be a factor. He will get a big initial buzz. He will get a lot of coverage in the media. He'll get a lot of initial excitement on the ground, but some people do not think he will be a factor. And then, on the other hand, there are some people that are very worried about Wesley Clark. They say he has the golden resume. He's like Bill Clinton without any of the baggage.

And he's a Bill Clinton who has been in the military. He's a four-star general, Vietnam war hero, Silver Star winner. They say, on paper, this guy looks like somebody who can really be a factor in this race, maybe not win it, but potentially be a significant factor and possibly pull out what would be a tremendous upset at this point.

So, really, it's a factor that is unknown by the political professionals. They're all over the map on this, Aaron.

BROWN: At this moment -- you never know how long these moments last. But at this moment, he is sort of flavor of the month, flavor of the moment. And whether that lasts more than a moment, I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

KARL: Absolutely.

BROWN: Thank you, Jon -- Jonathan Karl, Little Rock tonight,

Last night, Senator John Edwards joked on "The Daily Show" that it would actually be news to most people that he was running for president. Today, with the Clark story trumping Edwards' official announcement, it seemed as if the joke were on him.

I spoke with the senator from North Carolina a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So far, I think there is a perception, Senator, out there that it has been Governor Dean and all of the rest. I'm not sure you necessarily agree with that. But do you agree that, so far, you've yet to break through in a significant way?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, here's what I believe.

First of all, I'm out there fighting my heart out for the same people that I fought for all my life. They're the kind of people I grew up with in a small town in North Carolina, working people. That's where I had my announcement earlier today. And I'm convinced that, if I -- what I'm seeing on the ground in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina is representative, which I think it is, that this campaign will get stronger and stronger. I'm already moving in all those places.

Now, I actually feel very, very optimistic about this, because I think the core of what my campaign is about is what the American people are hungry for, opportunity. They want real opportunity for folks.

BROWN: And what does that mean, real opportunity for folks? Everybody wants that.

EDWARDS: Oh, sure, but here's what it means specifically.

It means making sure that kids who want to go to college get a chance to do it. I have a college-for-everyone program that says, if you're a young person, you're qualified and you're willing to work in order to earn the right to be in college, that you should be allowed to go. I have -- I have ideas about health care, to make health care available for every child in America and make that the law of the land, and also specific ideas about bringing down the cost of health care, stopping some of the price gouging and the other problems that are going on with our health care system, using the tax system in a way that allows people who need to, the middle-class Americans, to build wealth, be able to save, to be able to buy a home.

And, basically, all these things, Aaron, are aimed at the same thing, which is, as I said earlier, trying to make sure that folks get a chance to do what they're able to do.

BROWN: As we sit here talking tonight, the country is running, at least in dollar terms, a record deficit. What would you do to close it? Do you think Americans are undertaxed? Would you raise taxes? And if so, on whom?

EDWARDS: I think the middle class actually needs tax relief. What I think the president is doing is actually shifting the tax burden in America from wealth to people who work for a living. And he's also shifting responsibility from the national level to state and local governments. I mean, people's property taxes are going up. Their state and local taxes are going up. So, their taxes overall aren't being recused. It's just being shifted from one place to another.

No, here's what I would do about the deficit, to go to your specific question. I would stop the tax cuts for people who earn over $200,000 a year. Second thing I would do is close a whole series of corporate tax loopholes that will be revenue-generating; and then, third, take some steps to reduce the size of the Washington bureaucracy, outside of defense, over the next 10 years.

And, at least according to outside measures, that would produce somewhere around $1.5 trillion over the next 20 years, which would pay for all the things that I'm proposing, also would reduce the deficit by hundreds of billions of dollars.

BROWN: Just one more on what sometimes is mind-numbing, these economics discussions.

EDWARDS: Oh, I know.

BROWN: Do you see a time in the next decade when the budget will again be balanced?

EDWARDS: I think that depends.

What I'm planning is to move the country back on the path to fiscal responsibility. That's what I want to do as president. To answer that question, I think the honest answer is, it depends on what happens with the economy. If the economy gets back on track, grows the way that it's capable of growing and, as a result, we have revenue growth over that period of time, yes, we can -- we have a real potential for getting there.

But I think those things are inextricably intertwined. We have to get right back on the right path, back toward balanced budgets. But how quickly we get there depends on what's happening with the economy at large, I think.

BROWN: Let's try and do two more, if we can.

A couple of the Democratic hopefuls have said it's time to bring American troops home from Iraq. Is it time to bring American troops home from Iraq?

EDWARDS: I think it's time to bring our friends and allies into Iraq.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Well, but they may not want to go.

EDWARDS: Yes, well, that's fair.

But I think the way to get them there is for America to be willing to give them a seat at the table, in other words, let them participate in decision-making, give them some responsibility. I think that will clearly reduce the burden on our troops, also reduce the burden on the American taxpayer and, in addition to that, help reduce some of the hostility toward America that exists there. But I've said for a year now that's what we ought to be doing. And that's exactly what we ought to be doing.

BROWN: Are you interested in any other job at this point from president?

EDWARDS: I am not -- as you know, I've announced I'm not going to run for reelection to the Senate. I'm 100 percent committed to being president of the United States, not for me, Aaron, but for what needs to be done for the people of this country.

BROWN: Senator, it's always good to talk to you. We appreciate your time. I know it's been a long day. Thank you very much.

EDWARDS: Aaron, thanks for having me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator John Edwards.

And tomorrow, we'll be joined by retired General Wesley Clark, who we assume will announce that he, too, is running. We hope you'll join us for that conversation. That's tomorrow here on NEWSNIGHT.

More on the Democratic contenders in a moment and a look at the effect of the newest name in the field, or at least about to be in the field.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There are two questions, at least, we think, where Wesley Clark is concerned. What kind of president would he be? And, more importantly, what kind of candidate will he make?

The first, of course, is for voters ultimately to decide. The second is red meat for pundits and the press alike.

Ron Fournier is the national political writer for the Associated Press, not an easy job, that. And he joins us tonight from Little Rock, Arkansas.

Ron, good to have you.

RON FOURNIER, NATIONAL POLITICAL WRITER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Same here.

BROWN: I talked to General Clark on the phone late this afternoon,, early this evening. And he said he wanted one more night to sleep on it and I rolled my eyes. Is there any doubt in your mind that he is in?

FOURNIER: None whatsoever. He's going to be announcing tomorrow.

BROWN: And he has assembled, as Jon Karl talked about, a very experienced, if not big in numbers, a very experienced inner core around him. How important is that?

FOURNIER: Well, I think what's important about it is, what does it say about what the Democratic establishment, or at least part of it, thinks about the field right now?

Part of what's happening is, there are a certain number of Democratic leaders who are afraid that Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor, who has the momentum now, would get beat if he won the nomination, he would lose to President Bush. So there are some in the Democratic elite who are looking for an alternative to Dean who could stand up to Bush.

And that's -- Wesley Clark now is kind of the vessel for some of these people right now.

BROWN: Given how much money he needs to raise, how much of an organization he needs to put together, all of the things that the other candidates have already done, how do they see this campaign taking off?

FOURNIER: Well, they hope to do it in an unconventional way.

They've already passed the period where they could do a conventional race. There's not enough time to spend, obviously, months in Iowa and New Hampshire and some of these early states, like the other candidates have. So they have to look for unconventional methods. They have to use the Internet. He's known as a very media- savvy politician, as you know. He's been on your show quite a bit. They hope to use the mass media in a way the other candidates have to try to make this an instant national campaign that builds on the momentum and goes beyond just Iowa and New Hampshire.

BROWN: One of the things I would argue that has made General Clark so attractive to so many people is, honestly, no one really knows much about him. He is as much a blank slate as anyone I can think of who has entered a national political campaign. That eventually has to change.

FOURNIER: Yes, that cuts both ways.

He had an interesting answer today. I asked him, are you ready now to start filling in the gaps in your domestic policy, filling in the gaps that people have about you, start answering the questions we have about your policies outside of Iraq and foreign affairs?

And he curiously answered that: There's a lot I need to learn right now. I'm not ready to do that. I have some time. I need to travel the country, but I'm not ready to answer those questions right now and I have a lot to learn, which struck me on an interesting answer on the day before you announce your candidacy.

BROWN: Where are the dangers for him? Where are the potholes for him? Who will come and get him?

FOURNIER: They're everywhere. And everybody will come and get him.

If he gets any momentum, as we saw with Howard Dean last week, the knives will be out for him. His biggest weakness, I think, is his lack of experience. This is a guy who has never even won -- never even ran for student council. And now he's running for the highest office in the land. So his biggest concern right now, his biggest problem right now, is whether he can rise up to the challenges and be able to respond to the criticisms and the attacks he's going to get.

BROWN: And just to finally -- you've covered all these guys at one point or another. Is it your sense that they are -- they are a little nervous about the unknowable here, what kind of candidate General Clark will make?

FOURNIER: Yes.

The blank slate is always the scariest in politics. They don't know -- how do you attack a ghost? And they're going to sit back and wait for him to find himself and then try to figure out, assuming he has any momentum, assuming this flavor of the month, as you call it, actually turns into real momentum, they'll figure out how to respond. And there's already campaigns that are looking at everything he said on CNN as a pundit, everything he said on any other show, any inconsistencies in those statements.

And plus, when he got out of the military, he made some money. And there will be people looking at where and how he made that money. His career will be an open book in a way that it never has been before.

BROWN: It's about to get complicated. I think we both agree on that.

Ron, it's nice to have you with us tonight. Thank you very much.

FOURNIER: Thank you.

BROWN: Ron Fournier, the principal political writer for the Associated Press.

A couple of other stories that made news around the country, before we head to break here. At the Texas state Capitol in Austin, Texas, today -- imagine this -- both Democrats and Republicans showed up for work. And nobody left the building in a huff. We could stop right there, but we won't. It only lasted 16 minutes. But after the rancor between both sides, after a 45-day boycott by the senators, the Democratic senators, it is a start. In Washington, the Senate voted today to repeal those new regulations on media ownership, media consolidation, put in place by the Federal Communications Commission. Six Republicans broke ranks to join the Democrats in voting for the repeal. The president has threatened to veto any such legislation, which faces a most uncertain future in the house anyway.

And the judge who fought so bitterly over the removal of the Ten Commandments monument from public display in Birmingham, Alabama, tonight says he wants the 5,000-pound granite marker sent for display to the Capitol in Washington, D.C. Judge Roy Moore says he wants Congress to accept the monument as a gift. After being removed from the court lobby in Alabama, the monument was placed in a storage room.

As NEWSNIGHT continues: Yasser Arafat's amazing ability to survive. Did Israeli threats to deport him or even kill him only make him stronger?

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: If there is a land of unintended consequences, then, tonight, Yasser Arafat is king.

The United States this afternoon vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution demanding that Israel leave him alone. This is, safe to say, a battle the Bush administration did not want to fight over a man they believe would have been better off ignored. But in the effort to marginalize the man by threatening to expel him, or worse, the Israeli government has ended up, it seems, with just the opposite.

Here's CNN's John Vause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the forecourt of the Palestinian Parliament in Gaza City, hundreds gather for what has become a daily show of support for Yasser Arafat.

"Yes, yes to Arafat," they chant. But these protesters are mostly government workers employed by the Palestinian Authority, like Alaa Isaa from the Ministry of Finance. Like many here, he believes the Palestinians have as much right to choose their leader as any other people.

ALAA ISAA, ARAFAT SUPPORTER: What difference between the people, the Palestinian people, and the other people in the world?

VAUSE: In Gaza, there has been a surge in support for the militant group Hamas. But now, in his moment of crisis, it seems Yasser Arafat's popularity has been reborn.

"God sent him to us," Abu Ramis told me. "We elected him, yes, but God sent him as a..."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, that's a problem. We'll either fix it or we won't.

But I know we'll take a break and, at some point, we'll do morning papers.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydokey, it should be a turkey instead of a rooster tonight.

We put the Ten Commandments monument in Birmingham, Alabama. It should have been in Montgomery. It's not really a mistake if you correct it before you go off the air.

Time to check morning papers. OK. So it is a mistake. We fixed it, didn't we?

Morning papers from around the country and around the world.

In no particular order tonight, as if there ever was a particular order, "San Antonio Express-News," San Antonio, Texas. "Texas Closer to Redistricting" is the lead. And -- but the big story, "Shrimping in Brazil" -- or "Shrimping in Peril, Made in Brazil." Shrimping would be a big industry in the Gulf in San Antonio. And I guess that's what this here story is about in "The San Antonio Express" for you all down there.

Tomorrow, "Cincinnati Enquirer." Oh, I just like the incongruity of this. "Isabel's Coming." Even a lot of old salts are bailing out, but not this guy. Surf's up, right? "Thousands Urged to Leave Outer Banks of North Carolina." And down here at the bottom on the "Enquirer" front page, also, "Detainees Claim to be Americans." They're being held as suspected gorillas. This is in Iraq. There's a half a dozen or so who say they are Americans, a couple who say they are British. We've been checking this out, haven't confirmed it. We continue to work on it.

The two Detroit papers here. "Union Cashes in With its New Deals." Two of the three automakers have settled with their unions. And in "The Detroit Free Press" version, "Union Did Just Fine." "The Detroit News" leads likewise: "GM, UAW Close in on Final Labor Deal. Union Pushes Automaker to Commit to Delphi Parts." I'm not sure what part that is, but a number of plants are going to get closed. Some people are going to lose their jobs. There are apparently going to be pay raises also.

And also, they put the "Six Held in Iraq by U.S. May be American" story on their front page, too, which is, frankly, all about cars other than that.

"The South Bend Tribune," South Bend, Indiana. This has been nice of them to send us their paper, because they've had big news there. "A Cause Championed in Life and Death." O'Bannon, the now late governor of the state of Indiana, supported Hoosier organ donations, a story dovetailing on his death.

But the big story, I'm not sure why this is a story. I haven't actually read it yet. "Recipe For Stings: How to Avoid Insect Stings." OK, I would -- I don't know. I'm sure there was a good reason. They're a fine paper.

Uh, 30 seconds left.

"The Times Herald-Record" in upstate New York. A purely local lead: "To Catch a Thief. Cops Pin Local Bank Robberies on Escapee." Not the most flattering picture. Have you ever seen a flattering mug shot? I haven't. There is a jail in New Jersey that is willing to shoot their inmates in a coat and tie if they pay them like 15 bucks.

That's morning papers. That's the program.

General Clark, Wesley Clark, joins us tomorrow. We hope you do, too. We'll see you then.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Initiative Gets Mixed Reviews; Clark Likely to Run for President>


Aired September 16, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone.
It's not often we can begin Tuesday night's program by telling you what the top stories will be on Wednesday night's program but tonight appears to be one of those nights.

Tonight, we have just hints, forecasts if you will, but we're pretty sure of their accuracy. For example, while he hasn't announced you can bet that Wesley Clark will be a major story tomorrow after he officially says he's running for the White House. He'll be our guest here tomorrow night.

And, while Hurricane Isabel is still hundreds of miles from shore she's drawing a bead on the Outer Banks of North Carolina and by this time tomorrow it will be all but certain just where and when she will strike.

So, the whip begins with the anticipation of the latter. In Virginia Beach, Virginia, CNN's Jeanne Meserve starts us off, Jeanne a headline from you tonight.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: She's big. She's mean and she is coming. Along much of the East Coast, people are getting ready or getting out of her way -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jeanne, thank you.

Next to Little Rock, Arkansas, a double headline, I don't think we've ever had that. Jonathan Karl has the duty -- Jon.

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Headline number one, Aaron, General Wesley Clark is running for president and, although he hasn't raised any money yet and he is just now meeting some of the people that will be running his campaign he is already shaking up the race and overshadowing headline number two and that's that Senator John Edwards formally kicked off his presidential campaign, a campaign he's already been running now for many months.

BROWN: Jon, thank you.

On to the White House where the president today faced supporters and critics of his policy on the environment, our Senior White House Correspondent John King here with us again tonight, John a headline from you. JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president is tapping into concerns over the struggling manufacturing economy in an effort to sell some controversial environmental proposals. Mr. Bush says his approach would bring cleaner air and protect jobs. Most major environmental groups disagree -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you.

And, finally, California and yet another twist in the twist and turns of the California recall story, Kelly Wallace in Los Angeles, Kelly a headline.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, will there be an election next month or next year? We still don't know the answer but today a federal appeals court signaled it could reconsider the controversial decision to halt the election. The court asked that legal briefs in the case be filed by tomorrow afternoon -- Aaron.

BROWN: Kelly, thank you. We'll get details in a few moments from all of you.

Also coming up on the program tonight we'll talk with John Edwards, the freshman Senator from North Carolina who, as Jon Karl just mentioned, formally launched his campaign today.

And later in the program, a report from CNN's John Vause on a man who is something of a political phenomenon himself, certainly a remarkable political survivor, Yasser Arafat, who has gone from relative obscurity back to center stage even to his rivals.

And, even though roosters everywhere are saying give that thing a rest already, our rooster stays for now. Tomorrow's papers will wrap it all up, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin with Hurricane Isabel which is weaker tonight but still potentially deadly and still on track to do an awful lot of damage not to mention disrupting millions of lives.

We begin with CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE (voice-over): In the face of Isabel, flight, 100,000 people on North Carolina's Outer Banks told to leave as the governor declares a state of emergency.

GOV. MIKE EASLEY (D), NORTH CAROLINA: The storm has been downgraded to a category two but still it's generating winds of 105 plus miles per hour and we are anticipating rainfall now of up to eight inches in eastern North Carolina.

MESERVE: No mandatory evacuations in Virginia but there too concern about the approaching wind and rain and storm surge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In a big storm even a northeaster we get water three feet deep in the street. This area doesn't drain and it's low.

MESERVE: In flood prone downtown Norfolk sandbags are already being strategically placed.

MAYOR PAUL FRAIM, NORFOLK: The city has taken every reasonable step, every reasonable precaution.

MESERVE: The federal government, along with states and localities, continues to ramp up preparations for Isabel and her aftermath. Hospitals are making sure they're stocked up for a long haul.

MIKE POORE, VP, DEPAUL MEDICAL CENTER: We have all the supplies and everything that we need to be self sustained for at least 72 hours.

MESERVE: As far north as Massachusetts, boats are being hauled out of the water.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just made the decision to get ready for the storm just in case. Prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

MESERVE: In areas further south, some boat owners battled already turbulent surf to move to safer harbors but others were just tying things down as best they could.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quite frankly we really don't have anywhere now to move to. It's a little too late. Everywhere is filled up.

MESERVE: But the approach of Isabel had its upside, a bounty of fish.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe the storm is pushing all the fish (unintelligible).

MESERVE: Also lured to the shore surfers. The water was a bit choppy for a competition Tuesday but there were high hopes for the days ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We pray for hurricanes.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: Here in Virginia, officials watch and wait. At this point it looks like Isabel, like so many hurricanes before her, may not live up to her advance billing. As one official said, we keep getting dressed for the wedding but we never get married. He said that however, Aaron, with relief, back to you.

BROWN: And a sandbag in his back pocket. I mean the plan is, we'll talk more about this in a moment, it hits in North Carolina or on the Outer Banks and then moves up the coast. When do they expect to get socked where you are?

MESERVE: They're expecting that they'll start feeling the effects of this in a big way tomorrow evening and then midday Thursday the effects will be more apparent.

There's also going to be a high tide in the afternoon on Thursday. That's going to complicate the possible storm surge here. There's a lot of valuable real estate right on the beach that could be severely damaged if the water gets very high.

But officials said to me what they're really expecting at this point, given the forecast is a lot of rain and they're very worried about flooding here in the state of Virginia -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jeanne, thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve who's in Virginia Beach tonight.

Tracking hurricanes is science but it remains an imperfect one, of course. It's also a whole lot better than it used to be and so we're a whole lot more comfortable with the best guesses of the experts. We talked with Max Mayfield, the Director of the National Hurricane Center a very short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Has there been any significant change in either the strength of the hurricane or the hurricane track in the last, oh let's say five, six hours?

MAX MAYFIELD, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: Aaron, the good news is that there has not been any change. There may be some fluctuations here between now and landfall in intensity but the track has been very consistent for a few days now.

BROWN: Why is that good news?

MAYFIELD: Well, we just don't like to have, you know, the flip flop thing on tracks. We call it the windshield wiper effect and that's not a nice thing to do to emergency managers or to the marine community when we have an inconsistent forecast. I'm just saying that we do have a consistent forecast and no surprises I guess is what I should have said.

BROWN: So, in that respect can you say now with -- well you tell me, how much confidence at what point it hits land, where it hits land, and with what intensity it hits?

MAYFIELD: We've done everything we can to ensure a good forecast. We've been flying the NOAA jet aircraft not through the hurricane but in the environment around the hurricane since Saturday. In fact, we've had them on back-to-back missions here for the last couple of days.

They'll fly for eight or ten hours, land, refuel, another crew gets onboard flying again and all that data goes into the computer models and most of the better models now are still in pretty good agreement headed toward the Outer Banks of North Carolina.

So, we're still having that center come onto the coast near Noon on Thursday with the tropical storm force winds arriving there late tomorrow night, probably around midnight.

BROWN: And how long will it stay in that area? How many hours will it be hellacious there?

MAYFIELD: It will start picking up forward speed and I think by, you know, if the storm force winds get there when we think they will by around midnight tomorrow night the condition will continue to go downhill starting in North Carolina and progressing up, you know, northward as the hurricane moves inland.

Thursday is not going to be a very good day through eastern North Carolina, eastern Virginia, the Delmarva, even up through Maryland and then it will continue, the hurricane will weaken but the rainfall will spread, you know, through West Virginia, Western Pennsylvania, western New York and up into Canada by Saturday.

BROWN: What causes a hurricane in this case to go from a category five, which it was a few days back to a category three?

MAYFIELD: Well, I wish I knew for sure the answer to that. We think the upper level winds were pretty strong from the west and that provided what we call wind shear. It also likely (unintelligible) a little dry air on the western side. We still have a long way to go to understand these fluctuations in intensity.

BROWN: We are, we, that would be you in this case you know a whole lot more than you did a dozen years ago but I gather there's still a fair amount to know about why these storms and how these storms form and move and gain or lose strength.

MAYFIELD: We do a lot better on track forecasting. In fact the three-day forecast there is about half of what it was when I first came to the hurricane center 31 years ago. We do not have big improvements in intensity forecasting. We've identified that as the number one area to the research community where we need help and there are some very good people working on that now but we have a long way to go.

BROWN: It's always good to talk to you but we always talk to you under such difficult times. It's nice to see you again.

MAYFIELD: Thank you, sir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Thank you, Max Mayfield of the National Hurricane Center.`

There is something about a hurricane that seems to bring out the gambler in some people, people who otherwise wouldn't stop for a game of bingo much less the dollar slot machines are all of a sudden betting their lives on forces not even experts can fully predict and it's not always who you'd expect.

Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A perfect day for yard work for Amos Hall and his wife Doris.

DORIS HALL: We just thought we'd get the yard mowed in case before the rain came.

CANDIOTTI: Even with Isabel possibly knocking on their door the retirees, married 56 years, are fairly sure they'll ride out the storm inside their vacation home.

(on camera): They're talking about an eight to ten foot storm surge. Does that worry you?

D. HALL: Sure.

CANDIOTTI: So, if you stuck around what would happen?

AMOS HALL: Well, it won't come over in the yard I don't think. It won't be over this far.

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): Don't look for any hurricane shutters either.

(on camera): You don't have any boards up, no hurricane shutters, not protecting the house in any way, how come?

A. HALL: No. Well, when the good Lord takes me, we're going to let them take care of that for us. In other words, he's going to calm the storm down for us.

D. HALL: We're hoping.

CANDIOTTI: In the 30 years they've been coming here from their other home in Virginia, the Halls say they've avoided any flooding. Their home is just across the road from the ocean and a waterway is behind them. If the Halls stay they say they've got plenty of food.

D. HALL: Well, we have enough to last us for weeks.

CANDIOTTI: And, they suggest, a safe place, their living room.

D. HALL: Stay here because we don't have any windows in this room. It's in the middle of the house.

CANDIOTTI: A few blocks away, Lee Sensabaugh (ph) is probably going to leave. He's boarding up his house, trying to take Isabel in stride.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just going to blow and rain and it will be gone. We'll clean up and go on.

CANDIOTTI: Many are following a mandatory evacuation order for the Outer Banks. The Halls understand the order but...

A. HALL: Well, it didn't bother me. CANDIOTTI (on camera): If residents don't evacuate police won't force them out but if they need help authorities say they might have to wait to get it. As for the Halls if power goes out they don't have a portable radio and they don't have a phone.

Susan Candiotti CNN, Kill Devil Hills, North Carolina.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the latest twists and turns in the California recall story.

We'll also check on the president's environmental message and match that against the president's environmental record.

And later, we talk with the newest formally announced presidential candidate Senator John Edwards, a break first.

From CNN, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: To his critics, to his critics there is something Orwellian about President Bush lobbying for a bill called the Clear Skies Initiative, a proposal that by the way is supported by some major industries that pollute a great deal.

The plan would cap certain smokestack emissions but allow cleaner plants to still dirtier ones the right to pollute, if you will. It would also let older plants modernize without necessarily reducing emissions.

Many of these plants and workers and voters happen to be in states the president narrowly lost in the 2000 election so there is some skepticism. There's also honest disagreement on the merits.

Here's our Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president calls it the Clear Skies Initiative and makes it sound anything but controversial.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We'll have more affordable energy, more jobs, and cleaner skies.

KING: And in case you missed the jobs argument...

BUSH: One way to make sure that the job supply is steady and growing in the long term is to have a realistic energy policy coupled with realistic environmental policy.

KING: The president says his initiative would cut air pollution from power plants by 70 percent over the next 15 years, dramatically reducing emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide, and mercury. But major environmental groups say the cuts in pollution and dangerous emissions would be more dramatic under existing law and say the administration initiative does nothing to reduce carbon dioxide emissions they blame for global warming.

ANNOUNCER: We know how to stop them but the government won't. They're dirty power plants.

KING: The president's recent focus on environmental initiatives is in part to push Congress to act and in part an effort to raise his profile on, an issue Democrats consider a major Bush weakness.

Mr. Bush's higher profile is also stirring up his critics who say this White House was too cozy with industry groups in drafting its energy policy and is putting the environment at risk by easing pollution standards on power plants and proposing oil and gas exploration at the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and other sensitive areas.

ERIC SCHAEFFER, FORMER EPA OFFICIAL, ENVIRONMENTAL INTEGRITY PROJECT: This administration is essentially operating as an agency of the energy industry to try to change the laws that we were trying to enforce.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now it's no accident that the president nowadays is focusing much more on what he says is the needed balance between the economy and the environment. Here at the White House there is little hope of winning over what they call the liberal leaning major environmental groups but the White House does believe, especially at this moment, there is more sway to the jobs argument because, Aaron, of the struggling manufacturing sector.

BROWN: In listening to the president today he mentioned manufacturing jobs so we'll just ask the question is there any evidence that any of these jobs, these manufacturing jobs, and millions have been lost, have been lost because of pollution-related issues?

KING: The president could argue that more would be lost. There have been some debates from unions at times have argued that manufacturing jobs are lost by regulations not necessarily just environmental regulations but other government regulations. The environment and the job argument about it is one of the most contested, heated political debates. You can go ten different places and get ten different answers.

BROWN: That helps. Just to underscore something that you were saying at the end, the White House plan here I gather is not that they expect to win on the environment it's just not to lose too badly?

KING: From a political standpoint absolutely and, again, if you go state by state, which is how you win presidential politics, this president is not so much worried about what the Sierra Club thinks or what the National Resources Defense Council thinks. He's worried about what the voters of West Virginia, had he lost West Virginia last time he would not be president, he's worried about what they care in West Virginia and he'd very much like to win Michigan, Pennsylvania, states with big coal fire plants, big manufacturing bases. So, the president's looking to minimize his hurt on the environment and maximize what he can on the economy.

BROWN: John, thank you. The season is on, John King, our Senior White House Correspondent.

On to California where it is never, ever safe to say that stranger things have happened, after all there's always tomorrow and there's a recall election hanging in the balance and, yes, stranger things have happened than an appeals court that put the election on hold yesterday turning around and possibly changing its mind in a week.

Here again, CNN's Kelly Wallace.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE (voice-over): One day after sending the already chaotic recall race into turmoil, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit makes another move. It calls for arguments to be filed by Wednesday over whether more justices on the court should reconsider this controversial decision by three judges on the panel, all Democratic appointees, to halt the election.

ELIZABETH GARRETT, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA: It wouldn't surprise me that other members of the circuit who have a different view of the law, those judges would have said hey wait a minute. Let's have more of us listen to this case and make this decision.

WALLACE: The California secretary of state abruptly canceled a news conference saying the state would file its argument with the Ninth Circuit. The state has said the election should be held October 7th.

Proponents of the recall movement who had planned to go immediately to the U.S. Supreme Court reversed course saying they too would go to the Federal Appeals Court and some analysts predicted the ruling could very well be overturned.

GARRETT: Remember every judge who has heard this case, except for the three judges, said the election should go on.

WALLACE: But if it's delayed who wins, who loses? Most analysts believe the GOP frontrunner Arnold Schwarzenegger would lose by coming under increased scrutiny in a longer campaign but the actor turned candidate doesn't think the election will be put off.

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE: I know that on October 7th we will recall Gray Davis and say hasta la vista baby.

WALLACE: A delay could help embattled Governor Gray Davis' efforts to defeat the recall.

GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: In this wild hatter's ride, the conventional wisdom has turned out to be in error almost every time so nobody knows for sure.

WALLACE: So, as they wait for answers they work for votes, David trying to excite the base with Democrat Jesse Jackson and GOP candidate Schwarzenegger and State Senator Tom McClintock meeting separately with businessman Peter Ueberroth lobbying for the former candidate's endorsement.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: Legal analysts and campaign officials tell us they believe in the next 48 to 72 hours we should know if the Federal Appeals Court will decide to hold a hearing to reconsider this decision and in the meantime the thinking is while this is still in the hands of the Ninth Circuit the U.S. Supreme Court, which made the controversial decision to bring an end to the 2000 presidential race, will stay far and clear from this case -- Aaron.

BROWN: Two questions, did Mr. Ueberroth do anything or did he just meet? Did he endorse anyone?

WALLACE: No, he is non-committal so far. He said he won't make a decision until he meets with all the major candidates. He still has to meet with the major Democrat Lieutenant Governor Cruz Bustamante.

BROWN: And he is going to do that?

WALLACE: He is planning to do that, yes.

BROWN: OK, in the meantime are ads running and people making campaign appearances and all the rest as if the court had never ruled?

WALLACE: Yes. They're acting as if, Aaron, as if this election will be held in October. The ads are running. The candidates are out there but the attention, look at our report, all of the attention right now is on the legal proceedings, what exactly is going to happen and so it's unclear who is going to be hurt most by the attention being on the legal proceedings and not on the candidates (unintelligible).

BROWN: Well, in that regard not honestly to quibble here but there's always a difference in the way a national newscast looks at what is at the end of the day a statewide race, a statewide story and how local papers, local TV are covering it. I assume they're still covering massively both the candidates and the courts.

WALLACE: They certainly are, Aaron, absolutely but if you looked at the front page of the "Los Angeles Times," even if you looked at the local newscast, the top stories included stories on the legal proceedings, what's going to happen next and then, of course, they follow the candidates around.

Governor Davis, of course, with Democrats including Florida Senator Bob Graham, Arnold Schwarzenegger at town hall meetings, so they are getting the coverage but, again, a lot of the attention right now on what will happen next.

BROWN: Well, the court's got to decide. We got to make reservations to get out there. Thank you, Kelly, Kelly Wallace in Los Angeles tonight.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, yet another unofficial candidate makes it official. I know you thought it was official but it wasn't until today and we'll talk to John Edwards after the break.

This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We confess there is something undeniably strange about a person who has raised millions of dollars, taken part in three debates, been in New Hampshire about 15 zillion times, coming out and saying, oh yes, by the way I'm running for president, strange yes, unusual no.

By now most of the Democratic candidates have had more coming out parties than the Hilton sisters and in that respect Senator John Edwards is hardly alone. The lone exception is the man who didn't make an announcement today but will, both stories now from CNN's Jonathan Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARL (voice-over): The general is in. Sources close to Wesley Clark say he will make it official on Wednesday and although Clark won't confirm it himself, in an interview with Judy Woodruff he made it clear he thinks he has the right stuff to be president.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK (RET.), FORMER NATO SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER: I had some incredible experiences, both in terms of developing leadership and in terms of helping soldiers and families and finally really being able to influence national policy and helping to lead this country in its challenges abroad.

KARL: Like the last Democrat who won the White House, Clark's campaign will be based in his hometown Little Rock, Arkansas, and run by a small army of Clinton/Gore campaign veterans, including Eli Siegel, Don Fowler, Jr., Ron Klain and Mark Fabiani, all of whom worked on either the Clinton or Gore presidential campaigns. And, Clark starts with words of praise, although not an endorsement, from the former president who spoke with CNN over the weekend in Iowa.

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think he'd be quite good. He's a very smart man. I've known him since 1965. He's a good man. He's a smart man. He served our country well. He was fabulous in the Bosnian peace process in Kosovo.

KARL: Clark's campaign may make life difficult for the other candidates, like North Carolina Senator John Edwards who found his carefully orchestrated official campaign kickoff overshadowed by news of Clark's decision and Edwards' effort to position himself as the candidate who could win in the south may be complicated by Clark an Arkansas native.

John Kerry is affected too, no longer able to say he is the only military veteran in the race and Howard Dean may find new competition for those looking for a Washington outsider.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: But Clark also starts with some serious disadvantages. His rivals for the nomination have been campaigning for months, building organizations, and raising money, whereas Clark is just now here in Little Rock meeting for the first time some of the people that will be running his campaign. And he hasn't raised any money yet, although his supporters claim they have commitments of over $1 million so far -- Aaron.

BROWN: Not to pooh-pooh $1 million, but I think the president is shooting for about $175 million. So $1 million doesn't get you very far.

KARL: Yes.

BROWN: You know particularly well those candidates who are members of Congress. What do they and their staffs think of the Wes Clark candidacy?

KARL: Well, there are two schools of thought.

One is that he simply is getting into this too late to really be a factor. He will get a big initial buzz. He will get a lot of coverage in the media. He'll get a lot of initial excitement on the ground, but some people do not think he will be a factor. And then, on the other hand, there are some people that are very worried about Wesley Clark. They say he has the golden resume. He's like Bill Clinton without any of the baggage.

And he's a Bill Clinton who has been in the military. He's a four-star general, Vietnam war hero, Silver Star winner. They say, on paper, this guy looks like somebody who can really be a factor in this race, maybe not win it, but potentially be a significant factor and possibly pull out what would be a tremendous upset at this point.

So, really, it's a factor that is unknown by the political professionals. They're all over the map on this, Aaron.

BROWN: At this moment -- you never know how long these moments last. But at this moment, he is sort of flavor of the month, flavor of the moment. And whether that lasts more than a moment, I guess we'll find out tomorrow.

KARL: Absolutely.

BROWN: Thank you, Jon -- Jonathan Karl, Little Rock tonight,

Last night, Senator John Edwards joked on "The Daily Show" that it would actually be news to most people that he was running for president. Today, with the Clark story trumping Edwards' official announcement, it seemed as if the joke were on him.

I spoke with the senator from North Carolina a short time ago.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So far, I think there is a perception, Senator, out there that it has been Governor Dean and all of the rest. I'm not sure you necessarily agree with that. But do you agree that, so far, you've yet to break through in a significant way?

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, here's what I believe.

First of all, I'm out there fighting my heart out for the same people that I fought for all my life. They're the kind of people I grew up with in a small town in North Carolina, working people. That's where I had my announcement earlier today. And I'm convinced that, if I -- what I'm seeing on the ground in Iowa, New Hampshire, South Carolina is representative, which I think it is, that this campaign will get stronger and stronger. I'm already moving in all those places.

Now, I actually feel very, very optimistic about this, because I think the core of what my campaign is about is what the American people are hungry for, opportunity. They want real opportunity for folks.

BROWN: And what does that mean, real opportunity for folks? Everybody wants that.

EDWARDS: Oh, sure, but here's what it means specifically.

It means making sure that kids who want to go to college get a chance to do it. I have a college-for-everyone program that says, if you're a young person, you're qualified and you're willing to work in order to earn the right to be in college, that you should be allowed to go. I have -- I have ideas about health care, to make health care available for every child in America and make that the law of the land, and also specific ideas about bringing down the cost of health care, stopping some of the price gouging and the other problems that are going on with our health care system, using the tax system in a way that allows people who need to, the middle-class Americans, to build wealth, be able to save, to be able to buy a home.

And, basically, all these things, Aaron, are aimed at the same thing, which is, as I said earlier, trying to make sure that folks get a chance to do what they're able to do.

BROWN: As we sit here talking tonight, the country is running, at least in dollar terms, a record deficit. What would you do to close it? Do you think Americans are undertaxed? Would you raise taxes? And if so, on whom?

EDWARDS: I think the middle class actually needs tax relief. What I think the president is doing is actually shifting the tax burden in America from wealth to people who work for a living. And he's also shifting responsibility from the national level to state and local governments. I mean, people's property taxes are going up. Their state and local taxes are going up. So, their taxes overall aren't being recused. It's just being shifted from one place to another.

No, here's what I would do about the deficit, to go to your specific question. I would stop the tax cuts for people who earn over $200,000 a year. Second thing I would do is close a whole series of corporate tax loopholes that will be revenue-generating; and then, third, take some steps to reduce the size of the Washington bureaucracy, outside of defense, over the next 10 years.

And, at least according to outside measures, that would produce somewhere around $1.5 trillion over the next 20 years, which would pay for all the things that I'm proposing, also would reduce the deficit by hundreds of billions of dollars.

BROWN: Just one more on what sometimes is mind-numbing, these economics discussions.

EDWARDS: Oh, I know.

BROWN: Do you see a time in the next decade when the budget will again be balanced?

EDWARDS: I think that depends.

What I'm planning is to move the country back on the path to fiscal responsibility. That's what I want to do as president. To answer that question, I think the honest answer is, it depends on what happens with the economy. If the economy gets back on track, grows the way that it's capable of growing and, as a result, we have revenue growth over that period of time, yes, we can -- we have a real potential for getting there.

But I think those things are inextricably intertwined. We have to get right back on the right path, back toward balanced budgets. But how quickly we get there depends on what's happening with the economy at large, I think.

BROWN: Let's try and do two more, if we can.

A couple of the Democratic hopefuls have said it's time to bring American troops home from Iraq. Is it time to bring American troops home from Iraq?

EDWARDS: I think it's time to bring our friends and allies into Iraq.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Well, but they may not want to go.

EDWARDS: Yes, well, that's fair.

But I think the way to get them there is for America to be willing to give them a seat at the table, in other words, let them participate in decision-making, give them some responsibility. I think that will clearly reduce the burden on our troops, also reduce the burden on the American taxpayer and, in addition to that, help reduce some of the hostility toward America that exists there. But I've said for a year now that's what we ought to be doing. And that's exactly what we ought to be doing.

BROWN: Are you interested in any other job at this point from president?

EDWARDS: I am not -- as you know, I've announced I'm not going to run for reelection to the Senate. I'm 100 percent committed to being president of the United States, not for me, Aaron, but for what needs to be done for the people of this country.

BROWN: Senator, it's always good to talk to you. We appreciate your time. I know it's been a long day. Thank you very much.

EDWARDS: Aaron, thanks for having me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator John Edwards.

And tomorrow, we'll be joined by retired General Wesley Clark, who we assume will announce that he, too, is running. We hope you'll join us for that conversation. That's tomorrow here on NEWSNIGHT.

More on the Democratic contenders in a moment and a look at the effect of the newest name in the field, or at least about to be in the field.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There are two questions, at least, we think, where Wesley Clark is concerned. What kind of president would he be? And, more importantly, what kind of candidate will he make?

The first, of course, is for voters ultimately to decide. The second is red meat for pundits and the press alike.

Ron Fournier is the national political writer for the Associated Press, not an easy job, that. And he joins us tonight from Little Rock, Arkansas.

Ron, good to have you.

RON FOURNIER, NATIONAL POLITICAL WRITER, ASSOCIATED PRESS: Same here.

BROWN: I talked to General Clark on the phone late this afternoon,, early this evening. And he said he wanted one more night to sleep on it and I rolled my eyes. Is there any doubt in your mind that he is in?

FOURNIER: None whatsoever. He's going to be announcing tomorrow.

BROWN: And he has assembled, as Jon Karl talked about, a very experienced, if not big in numbers, a very experienced inner core around him. How important is that?

FOURNIER: Well, I think what's important about it is, what does it say about what the Democratic establishment, or at least part of it, thinks about the field right now?

Part of what's happening is, there are a certain number of Democratic leaders who are afraid that Howard Dean, the former Vermont governor, who has the momentum now, would get beat if he won the nomination, he would lose to President Bush. So there are some in the Democratic elite who are looking for an alternative to Dean who could stand up to Bush.

And that's -- Wesley Clark now is kind of the vessel for some of these people right now.

BROWN: Given how much money he needs to raise, how much of an organization he needs to put together, all of the things that the other candidates have already done, how do they see this campaign taking off?

FOURNIER: Well, they hope to do it in an unconventional way.

They've already passed the period where they could do a conventional race. There's not enough time to spend, obviously, months in Iowa and New Hampshire and some of these early states, like the other candidates have. So they have to look for unconventional methods. They have to use the Internet. He's known as a very media- savvy politician, as you know. He's been on your show quite a bit. They hope to use the mass media in a way the other candidates have to try to make this an instant national campaign that builds on the momentum and goes beyond just Iowa and New Hampshire.

BROWN: One of the things I would argue that has made General Clark so attractive to so many people is, honestly, no one really knows much about him. He is as much a blank slate as anyone I can think of who has entered a national political campaign. That eventually has to change.

FOURNIER: Yes, that cuts both ways.

He had an interesting answer today. I asked him, are you ready now to start filling in the gaps in your domestic policy, filling in the gaps that people have about you, start answering the questions we have about your policies outside of Iraq and foreign affairs?

And he curiously answered that: There's a lot I need to learn right now. I'm not ready to do that. I have some time. I need to travel the country, but I'm not ready to answer those questions right now and I have a lot to learn, which struck me on an interesting answer on the day before you announce your candidacy.

BROWN: Where are the dangers for him? Where are the potholes for him? Who will come and get him?

FOURNIER: They're everywhere. And everybody will come and get him.

If he gets any momentum, as we saw with Howard Dean last week, the knives will be out for him. His biggest weakness, I think, is his lack of experience. This is a guy who has never even won -- never even ran for student council. And now he's running for the highest office in the land. So his biggest concern right now, his biggest problem right now, is whether he can rise up to the challenges and be able to respond to the criticisms and the attacks he's going to get.

BROWN: And just to finally -- you've covered all these guys at one point or another. Is it your sense that they are -- they are a little nervous about the unknowable here, what kind of candidate General Clark will make?

FOURNIER: Yes.

The blank slate is always the scariest in politics. They don't know -- how do you attack a ghost? And they're going to sit back and wait for him to find himself and then try to figure out, assuming he has any momentum, assuming this flavor of the month, as you call it, actually turns into real momentum, they'll figure out how to respond. And there's already campaigns that are looking at everything he said on CNN as a pundit, everything he said on any other show, any inconsistencies in those statements.

And plus, when he got out of the military, he made some money. And there will be people looking at where and how he made that money. His career will be an open book in a way that it never has been before.

BROWN: It's about to get complicated. I think we both agree on that.

Ron, it's nice to have you with us tonight. Thank you very much.

FOURNIER: Thank you.

BROWN: Ron Fournier, the principal political writer for the Associated Press.

A couple of other stories that made news around the country, before we head to break here. At the Texas state Capitol in Austin, Texas, today -- imagine this -- both Democrats and Republicans showed up for work. And nobody left the building in a huff. We could stop right there, but we won't. It only lasted 16 minutes. But after the rancor between both sides, after a 45-day boycott by the senators, the Democratic senators, it is a start. In Washington, the Senate voted today to repeal those new regulations on media ownership, media consolidation, put in place by the Federal Communications Commission. Six Republicans broke ranks to join the Democrats in voting for the repeal. The president has threatened to veto any such legislation, which faces a most uncertain future in the house anyway.

And the judge who fought so bitterly over the removal of the Ten Commandments monument from public display in Birmingham, Alabama, tonight says he wants the 5,000-pound granite marker sent for display to the Capitol in Washington, D.C. Judge Roy Moore says he wants Congress to accept the monument as a gift. After being removed from the court lobby in Alabama, the monument was placed in a storage room.

As NEWSNIGHT continues: Yasser Arafat's amazing ability to survive. Did Israeli threats to deport him or even kill him only make him stronger?

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: If there is a land of unintended consequences, then, tonight, Yasser Arafat is king.

The United States this afternoon vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution demanding that Israel leave him alone. This is, safe to say, a battle the Bush administration did not want to fight over a man they believe would have been better off ignored. But in the effort to marginalize the man by threatening to expel him, or worse, the Israeli government has ended up, it seems, with just the opposite.

Here's CNN's John Vause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the forecourt of the Palestinian Parliament in Gaza City, hundreds gather for what has become a daily show of support for Yasser Arafat.

"Yes, yes to Arafat," they chant. But these protesters are mostly government workers employed by the Palestinian Authority, like Alaa Isaa from the Ministry of Finance. Like many here, he believes the Palestinians have as much right to choose their leader as any other people.

ALAA ISAA, ARAFAT SUPPORTER: What difference between the people, the Palestinian people, and the other people in the world?

VAUSE: In Gaza, there has been a surge in support for the militant group Hamas. But now, in his moment of crisis, it seems Yasser Arafat's popularity has been reborn.

"God sent him to us," Abu Ramis told me. "We elected him, yes, but God sent him as a..."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, that's a problem. We'll either fix it or we won't.

But I know we'll take a break and, at some point, we'll do morning papers.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydokey, it should be a turkey instead of a rooster tonight.

We put the Ten Commandments monument in Birmingham, Alabama. It should have been in Montgomery. It's not really a mistake if you correct it before you go off the air.

Time to check morning papers. OK. So it is a mistake. We fixed it, didn't we?

Morning papers from around the country and around the world.

In no particular order tonight, as if there ever was a particular order, "San Antonio Express-News," San Antonio, Texas. "Texas Closer to Redistricting" is the lead. And -- but the big story, "Shrimping in Brazil" -- or "Shrimping in Peril, Made in Brazil." Shrimping would be a big industry in the Gulf in San Antonio. And I guess that's what this here story is about in "The San Antonio Express" for you all down there.

Tomorrow, "Cincinnati Enquirer." Oh, I just like the incongruity of this. "Isabel's Coming." Even a lot of old salts are bailing out, but not this guy. Surf's up, right? "Thousands Urged to Leave Outer Banks of North Carolina." And down here at the bottom on the "Enquirer" front page, also, "Detainees Claim to be Americans." They're being held as suspected gorillas. This is in Iraq. There's a half a dozen or so who say they are Americans, a couple who say they are British. We've been checking this out, haven't confirmed it. We continue to work on it.

The two Detroit papers here. "Union Cashes in With its New Deals." Two of the three automakers have settled with their unions. And in "The Detroit Free Press" version, "Union Did Just Fine." "The Detroit News" leads likewise: "GM, UAW Close in on Final Labor Deal. Union Pushes Automaker to Commit to Delphi Parts." I'm not sure what part that is, but a number of plants are going to get closed. Some people are going to lose their jobs. There are apparently going to be pay raises also.

And also, they put the "Six Held in Iraq by U.S. May be American" story on their front page, too, which is, frankly, all about cars other than that.

"The South Bend Tribune," South Bend, Indiana. This has been nice of them to send us their paper, because they've had big news there. "A Cause Championed in Life and Death." O'Bannon, the now late governor of the state of Indiana, supported Hoosier organ donations, a story dovetailing on his death.

But the big story, I'm not sure why this is a story. I haven't actually read it yet. "Recipe For Stings: How to Avoid Insect Stings." OK, I would -- I don't know. I'm sure there was a good reason. They're a fine paper.

Uh, 30 seconds left.

"The Times Herald-Record" in upstate New York. A purely local lead: "To Catch a Thief. Cops Pin Local Bank Robberies on Escapee." Not the most flattering picture. Have you ever seen a flattering mug shot? I haven't. There is a jail in New Jersey that is willing to shoot their inmates in a coat and tie if they pay them like 15 bucks.

That's morning papers. That's the program.

General Clark, Wesley Clark, joins us tomorrow. We hope you do, too. We'll see you then.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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Initiative Gets Mixed Reviews; Clark Likely to Run for President>