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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Limbaugh Admits Drug Addiction; Bush Focuses on Cuba; Philly Mayor Subject of Federal Investigation
Aired October 10, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
The gods of humility have a way of paying a visit to all of us eventually, when we are too sure of ourselves or too full of ourselves the gods of humility come knocking at the door.
As one who has been paid such a visit I could tell you it is rarely welcome and rarely unneeded. The humility gods came knocking on Rush Limbaugh's door today. Surely it was humbling for Mr. Limbaugh to tell his audience that he is a drug addict, no different really than the drug addicts he has condemned along the way.
And while from time to time he has taken a shot at us and this program and this network we take no shots at him, no gloating or joy. One visit from the humility gods is quite enough.
It is Rush that begins the whip. CNN's Susan Candiotti starts us off with a headline, Susan begin please.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, as you said one week after a woman's stunning claim she illegally sold Rush Limbaugh drugs the talk show host admits he's an addict. He does not yet answer her allegations he paid her for pills -- Aaron.
BROWN: Susan, thank you. We'll get you to the top tonight.
On to the White House next, tough talk and new policy aimed at bringing democracy to Cuba, CNN's Suzanne Malveaux with the headline -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Bush is calling for regime change -- not military action -- but this time the president has his sights on Cuba.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.
Next to the Pentagon and Guantanamo Bay, a chaplain who's under arrest, Barbara Starr a headline from you please.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the Muslim Army chaplain now officially facing charges in the espionage probe at Guantanamo Bay.
BROWN: Barbara, thank you. And finally, the Philadelphia story involving the mayor, the bug and a federal investigation. CNN's Jason Carroll on that for us so, Jason, a headline.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, Aaron, government sources say that the mayor is the subject of a federal investigation, the mayor still suspicious about the timing of all of this, one of his top aides calling the investigation a bunch of bull -- Aaron.
BROWN: That sort of says it, doesn't it, Jason thank you, back to you and the rest.
Coming up also in the program tonight a discussion, a gentle one we hope about pride and the fall and the climb ahead for Rush Limbaugh. The author Al Franken and media critic Michael Wolff will join us.
We'll also talk with a cancer researcher about a breakthrough, not a home run but a solid base hit as he says for women being treated for breast cancer. This is a story actually we saw last night when we were doing papers, which is our way of saying you never know what we'll find but the rooster does know and so will you before we're done on this Friday night.
All that and more in the hour ahead, we begin with the moment that pains as many as it pleases such as the lot of Rush Limbaugh. Such too are the rough and tumble times that many believe he and his opponents have helped to create.
A poison well to some, a whirlwind to be sure, and into it today came an extraordinary admission of weakness for a person who on the air at least tolerates none of it.
Here again CNN's Susan Candiotti.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): One week after promising to have more to say about drug allegations, Rush Limbaugh began to address the issue near the end of his daily radio show.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Part of what you have heard and read in the past week is correct. I am addicted to prescription pain medication.
CANDIOTTI: Limbaugh said he'd been asked not to comment on a criminal investigation that first surfaced last week.
Law enforcement sources in Florida confirm they're investigating claims by a former housekeeper that she illegally sold him thousands of prescription painkillers, including OxyContin and Hydrocodone. Limbaugh told listeners his problem started years ago after continued pain following spinal surgery.
LIMBAUGH: Rather than opt for additional surgery for these conditions I chose to treat the pain with prescribed medication and this medication turned out to be highly addictive.
CANDIOTTI: Sources close to the investigation tell CNN the woman who made the claims against Limbaugh has turned over e-mails and answering machine messages in which a voice sounding like his appears to ask for pills. Limbaugh told his audience he's been in detox twice and is now voluntarily entering a 30-day program again.
LIMBAUGH: I'm not making any excuses and I don't intend to. You know over the years athletes, celebrities have emerged from these treatment centers. They've come out to great fanfare and praise for conquering great demons. They are said to be great role models and examples for others. They've gotten a lot of praise for doing this. Well, I want you to know that I'm no role model.
CANDIOTTI: CNN has learned high profile criminal defense attorney Roy Black in the last couple of days has met with the Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office to discuss Limbaugh's situation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: Sources will not comment as to whether Limbaugh or even the housekeeper will be charged; however, they add that today's admission by Limbaugh that he is a drug addict cannot be considered a mitigating factor in the courts in terms of any aspect of this investigation according to Florida law -- Aaron.
BROWN: According to Florida law what sort of problems does someone hooked on prescription drugs face, felony charges?
CANDIOTTI: It could range from a mere misdemeanor of illegal possession to felony charges of trafficking depending on the amount of drugs that might possibly be involved here.
However, investigative sources continue to stress here that they've been continuously targeting suppliers and sellers as part of this ongoing investigation not necessarily addicts so we'll see whether anyone's charged.
BROWN: Susan, thank you, Susan Candiotti.
A little bit later in the program we'll talk with Al Franken who has, of course, written about Mr. Limbaugh and columnist Michael Wolff, the media critic for "New York" magazine who has written about Mr. Limbaugh as well and both have been targets of Mr. Limbaugh.
On to other business first, charges against a chaplain who ministered to inmates at Guantanamo Bay, though not the charges many expected though they may come still. And new criticism today of conditions inside the camp from an organization that has a lot of clout and traditionally shies away from publicity, from the Pentagon tonight CNN's Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): Muslim Army Chaplain Captain James Yee now faces two counts of failing to obey orders, specifically carrying classified information about al Qaeda and Taliban detainees and the Guantanamo Bay camp where they are held.
Yee may still face charges of espionage, sources tell CNN, and it's not clear whether there are links between him and two other men under arrest in the espionage probe, also under scrutiny the treatment of the detainees themselves. Former federal judges are urging the Supreme Court to ensure the detainees get legal rights.
JOHN GIBBONS, FORMER THIRD CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE: The idea that American Executive Branch personnel, particularly military personnel, can detain people beyond the reach of habeas corpus is just repugnant to the rule of law.
STARR: The International Committee of the Red Cross, which monitors international prisoners and has inspected the camp is again raising rare public concerns. Friday, a top Red Cross official told CNN:
"The particular element for us that is unacceptable is that after 18 months of captivity the internees still have no idea about their fate and no means of recourse through any legal mechanisms."
The White House insists the detainees must be held to make sure they don't help others carry out more attacks.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Keep in mind that we're talking about enemy combatants, people that are enemies of the United States that have assisted or provided support to attacks against the United States.
STARR (on camera): Red Cross officials say there is another problem. After 18 months of captivity the mental health of the detainees is badly deteriorating.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: President Bush today stepped up pressure on Cuba's communist government. A joker on our staff said the plan is to infiltrate the island with Muslim guerrilla fighters. Hey, it worked with the Soviets in Afghanistan.
In fact, much of what the president has in mind is preventing Americans and their money from traveling to Cuba. To many Republicans and Democrats this policy makes little sense. It hasn't worked and isn't likely to work in the future. They see more trade and more contact as a better way. The president clearly disagrees, the story from CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush calling for democracy and the fall of another regime.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today we are confident no matter what the dictator intends or plans, Cuba (unintelligible).
MALVEAUX: This time it's Cuba and a communist leader Fidel Castro. Today in a Rose Garden ceremony the president announced new initiatives aimed at bringing economic and political reforms to the communist state.
BUSH: This country loves freedom and we know that the enemy of every tyrant is the truth. We're determined to bring the truth to the people who suffer under Fidel Castro.
MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush's plan includes cracking down on illegal tourism, allowing more Cuban immigrants into the U.S. each year, boosting anti-Castro broadcasts in Cuba and establishing a committee to prepare for the day Fidel is gone.
One year ago the Cuban leader ignored Mr. Bush's offer to ease economic sanctions in exchange for democratic reforms but critics say the U.S. embargo has failed to improve the lives of the Cuban people and that the motive for today's announcement is political as Mr. Bush tried to maintain the crucial Cuban-American vote for Election 2004.
Democratic Senator Max Baucus released a statement saying: "I would hope that at some point we could move beyond a policy toward Cuba that is held hostage by the politics of the electoral college."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now, Mr. Bush is the tenth U.S. president since Fidel Castro took power in 1959. Some critics say that democracy will come to Cuba not through U.S. isolation but rather engagement -- Aaron.
BROWN: Was the president even asked the question of the political, a political motivation for today's announcement?
MALVEAUX: Well, certainly the reason why this is coming now is for two reasons. They're modest initiative but first of all they've been calling for some action for some time. The last six months there have been some human rights violations that have increased inside of Cuba.
But, secondly, make no mistake it is not a secret that the Bush administration is courting the Cuban-American population, specifically those in Florida, a key constituency that helped him when the controversial victory for the presidency out of Florida in Election 2000, some of those Cuban-Americans in the audience today at the Rose Garden when he announced that initiative.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you. Have a good weekend, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.
To call Fidel Castro a thorn in President Bush's side would be to both over and understate the case. Cuba itself is a basket case in many respects, a dagger pointed right at the heart of UNICEF.
Just the same, a nuclear war was nearly fought over it and the country has been a vexation and a puzzlement to American presidents ever since. So, from reaction there we turn to Havana and CNN's Lucia Newman -- Lucia.
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, mums the word here, not a peep, not a sound, not a single comment in fact or reference to President Bush's speech on Cuban state-run television today which is a public holiday here in this country, which means then that most ordinary Cubans haven't even heard about the announcement.
The only comment there was from the government came from the head of the Cuban interests section in Washington Dagoberto Rodriguez who accused President Bush of being a lawless cowboy.
DAGOBERTO RODRIGUEZ, HEAD OF CUBAN INTERESTS SECTION (through translator): Cubans know very well what we want to do and achieve and we feel very satisfied. Every day we busy ourselves with improving our revolution and we will continue on that path. Let them waste their time while we in Havana continue to calmly work to improve our society, to improve our lives, and laugh a little at all these shenanigans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWMAN: Now while Mr. Rodriguez may be trying to sound rather nonchalant it's very clear that the Cuban leadership here did not like what it heard from the White House today.
For example, the plans to form a special commission, a special task force to find ways to hasten the end of Cuban communism is sure to have played very badly at the Politburo.
Those sorts of things make people nervous here and the Cuban government is likely to play this off as the kind of evidence or sign that the United States is planning new subversive plots against the Cuban revolution.
Also announced, while not unexpected, are plans to now bring TV and Radio Martine via satellite into Cuba, which is very likely to make President Fidel Castro see red. Cuba says that this is an absolute violation of international law and communications norms.
However we did speak to a prominent dissident Flavenido Rocha (ph) who told me today that he applauded the move. He says this will help break the Cuban government information blockade around the Cuban people. So, Aaron, it will be interesting to see just how this develops once the satellite transmissions actually begin.
BROWN: A couple of quick questions here I want to get to. Does any single day go by when you don't see an American tourist in Cuba?
NEWMAN: No, Aaron, absolutely not, at least not until the end of this year because there are some groups that have licenses to bring Americans here under the so-called educational program. But as we heard earlier, President Bush is working very, very hard to cut that and make it almost impossible for Americans to come here as tourists.
BROWN: Lots of Americans or many Americans come from Florida, take the boat for the day. They go into ports in Cuba. They come home later. The Cubans are very receptive to that and that goes on all the time.
NEWMAN: It does. People come here to Havana's marina, Hemingway for example on their boats and what's illegal here is not to come to Cuba technically but rather to spend a single penny here. But the Treasury Department has been cracking down on that. A lot of other Americans, though, come through third countries.
They come through Canada, through Mexico, Jamaica and that too now apparently is going to be kept a very close eye on the people that get off the planes from Canada, for example and then followed to the new boarding gates going to the United States and they're stopped by U.S. Customs and the fines start, Aaron, at $7,500.
BROWN: Lucia good to see you, Lucia Newman in Havana tonight.
Another deadly day in Iraq, two Americans killed in a Shiite neighborhood in Baghdad. The Army called it an ambush.
Back in Washington it was Vice President Cheney's turn to restate the case for going to war. Speaking at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, the vice president slammed those who question the rationale.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If the United States has been constrained by the objections of some the regime of Saddam Hussein would still rule Iraq. His statues would still stand. His sons would still be running the secret police. Dissidents would still be in prison.
The apparatus of torture and rape would still be in place and the mass graves would be undiscovered. We must never forget the kind of man who ran that country and the depravity of his regime.
BROWN: The vice president made only the slightest reference to the difficulties in Iraq these days and made no mention at all of the casualties today. In fact, in both word and tone his speech was harsher, more uncompromising than the president's talk of a day ago.
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight Michael Wolff and Al Franken here to talk about Rush Limbaugh and his drug addiction.
Plus, an FBI investigation and the mayor in the middle of it all.
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Now don't get the wrong idea. Just because the FBI planted a listening device in the office of the mayor of Philadelphia that does not mean the mayor is the target of an investigation, no, nothing of the sort. Government sources made clear today, if clear is the right word to use, that the mayor isn't the target of an investigation. He's the subject of an investigation. We're hoping Jason Carroll can explain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice-over): Federal government sources tell CNN Philadelphia Mayor John Street is the subject of a federal investigation although at this point it's unclear what the investigation is all about.
An aide close to the mayor called the investigation "totally political bull" saying it's "a fishing expedition." The mayor says he's been told almost nothing.
MAYOR JOHN STREET (D), PHILADELPHIA: A bad guy in these investigations is the target and I know I am not the target.
CARROLL: According to the Justice Department, a target is a person who prosecutors have evidence linking to a crime. A subject is a person whose conduct is within the scope of the investigation. Is it possible that the mayor can become the target or that federal officials are instead investigating someone close to him? U.S. Attorney Patrick Mehan (ph) won't say.
Legal experts say approval to plant an electronic listening device in the office of a big city mayor up for reelection must have come from a federal judge and the Justice Department.
DANIEL MILLER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It goes to main Justice in Washington where they have a whole bureaucracy that looks at the application.
CARROLL: Federal law enforcement sources tell CNN Attorney General John Ashcroft and his top aides were not involved in the decision. The Democratic mayor suspects this all may be politically and racially motivated and that the investigation could be a Republican conspiracy to get him out of office.
STREET: The timing of all this is suspicious.
CARROLL: Street now acknowledges he turned over one of his wireless e-mail devices to the authorities on Tuesday, the day the bug was found. Street's opponent says he believes the mayor must know more than he's saying.
SAM KATZ (R), PHILADELPHIA MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I don't think that the Justice Department or the FBI put a wire in the mayor's office and then only told him he was not a target of a U.S. Attorney's Office investigation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: Democrats and some Republicans, like Senator Arlen Specter, have come out and said that the Feds need to come out and clear the air about this investigation. Today, the Democratic National Committee released a statement saying that the Justice Department should not be used as a machine to create a cloud of suspicion around Democratic candidates -- back to you.
BROWN: Well, how embarrassed must the FBI be that their bug was found but that notwithstanding talk just a little bit about the campaign because this is a rerun of a campaign that was especially nasty the first time out.
CARROLL: It's a very close campaign, Aaron, and what we're seeing in the city of Philadelphia is because of what's happening with this most recent development it is really splitting the city along racial lines.
And this is a campaign where you've got both candidates who are very sure about their stand on this issue and you've got people in the city that are very clear about what they believe.
And both sides agree, at least on one point, and that is it would be very helpful for some people in the federal government, whether it be the FBI or someone from the U.S. Attorney's Office to come out and clear the air about exactly what this investigation is about.
BROWN: Jason, thank you very much, Jason Carroll with us tonight.
A few stories from around the country now, beginning with the latest on who exposed the wife of former Ambassador James Wilson as a CIA agent. CNN has learned that a number of White House staffers were interviewed by the FBI today as part of an investigation into that leak. Government sources did not say which officials the FBI talked to but they did say that White House Senior Political Adviser Carl Rove was not among them.
In Tampa, Florida today a federal judge said he had no jurisdiction in the case of a severely brain damaged comatose woman whose husband wants to remove a feeding tube from her. Terry Schiavo's (ph) parents had filed the suit to keep the removal schedule for Wednesday from happening. This has become a huge case for those in the right to life movement in this country and abroad.
And, in New Jersey, the parents of a girl paralyzed by a drunken football fan refilled a lawsuit they filed two years ago. This time they named the NFL and its Commissioner Paul Tagliabue in the suit saying they promoted the kind of behavior, drinking, excessive drinking that led to the accident that suit in New Jersey.
Still ahead tonight, the Kobe Bryant case when no isn't enough.
And a little bit later more on the Rush Limbaugh case with Al Franken and Michael Wolff.
We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: OK, here's the truth of it. Rush Limbaugh has been more than a bit unkind to me more than once. He's also been unkind to Al Franken, who in turn has been unkind to him. He's taken shots at Michael Wolff, "New York" magazine's media critic and Michael is hardly the retiring sort.
So, here we all are, Alan, Michael and me and the subject is Rush made worse no doubt by the permanent smirk that seems to be attached to my face. Welcome to you all. Al, let's start with you. Does it matter do you think that the drugs that Mr. Limbaugh is addicted to are prescription drugs as opposed to recreational drugs?
AL FRANKEN, POLITICAL SATIRIST: Well, no. I mean in terms of addiction, no.
BROWN: No, in terms of how...
FRANKEN: No. I think addiction is addiction.
BROWN: In terms of how people will see it, in terms of how you see it.
FRANKEN: No. You can't be addicted to this kind of drug and get this amount of drugs without breaking the law so it seems to me that in terms of the hypocrisy of always calling for people -- I have something they said from '95 in which it says: "If people are violating the law by doing drug they ought to be accused. They ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."
And, I think that the issue that we're confronted with by this, I hope that we'll get to and I feel bad for the guy that he's addicted to this prescription drugs or whatever he's addicted to, the issue really is is drug laws in this country and there are people sitting in prison who are guilty only of being drug addicts and they're in jail because of possession.
It sounds like, I mean I don't want to prejudge this investigation but it sounds like Rush was involved in a drug ring.
BROWN: Michael, let me take the same question but add something to it, a) does it matter that it was prescription drugs and not -- he wasn't out snorting coke for the fun of it, OK, and how he came to be addicted and all of that, assuming he's telling the truth and I have no reason to believe he's not; and, b) will it matter to his audience at all?
MICHAEL WOLFF, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Well, I think this is the question. It's the question on everyone's -- certainly on the minds of his audience, on the minds of people who are not his audience and foremost on his own mind. Can he get away with it? And getting...
BROWN: Can he get away with it?
WOLFF: Can he get away with it? Can he come back and it's on two fronts. Number one there is an investigation here. He could be charged with a felony but then there's this other larger getting away with it which is can he return to his audience and not have them, these 20 million people, see him as a hypocrite? And that may be finally the issue here. I mean he has been, I mean he has been as -- a demagogic on the subject of drugs and people addicted to drugs as anyone else and now here he is whether those drugs are prescription drugs or not prescription drugs, he is still suddenly helpless.
BROWN: I want to get to Al's question in a second. Let me just work with this for one more minute.
In an odd way, I guess I wonder if his audience can accept Rush as anything other than the Rush they've had, the absolutely confident, self-assured, bombastic, and perfect, or nearly so.
WOLFF: My guess is that they can.
So, therefore, he has to get around this. And, right now, I think we have the sort of -- he's -- this is the Arnold defense. He's rushed in there to say, yes, it's true. Yes, he's going to solve the problem. And he's admitting to it and trying to get to that point as fast as possible, where he can say, as Arnold did, that's old news. Whether this works or not, I don't know. We're going to see.
But this is exactly the media strategy that he's employing right now.
BROWN: Al, do you think this is a media strategy or that it's the only option he had? He's under investigation. It was all coming down on him. All you can do is say it's true and deal with it, right?
FRANKEN: Well, yes, I suppose so.
He's going to have to go into rehab. He's going -- if he's going to go into recovery, he's got to work a 12-step program. Those programs are based on rigorous honesty. Then I don't think he'll have a show.
BROWN: Why?
FRANKEN: I don't think he can do a show based on rigorous honesty, frankly. He won't have anything to do.
BROWN: You don't think he can be, in his mind, honest, in his mind, and do the program that he's been doing?
FRANKEN: No.
BROWN: Just take the drug stuff out of it for a minute and talk about everything else?
FRANKEN: No, I don't think he can do a rigorously honest show.
I have listened to him enough, read enough books on him, that he is always -- he's a dishonest demagogue.
WOLFF: But aren't you presupposing that he's going to be honest in that instance, when it certainly fits the profile here that this is not about honesty? This is not about recovery. This is about maintaining a media empire.
BROWN: See, you're seeing this as a business moment, aren't you?
WOLFF: Completely, absolutely, in every possible way. I don't think that there's a bone in this man's body that is not a business bone.
BROWN: That he's trying to protect a $200 million deal.
WOLFF: Two hundred and fifty million dollar, indeed.
BROWN: I was rounding it off.
(CROSSTALK)
FRANKEN: Well, I think it shows one thing, which is that $250 million doesn't make a man as happy as $200 million and a fistful of OxyContin.
BROWN: Look, I know you both sort of -- you got to feel bad for the guy. This was humiliating.
(CROSSTALK)
FRANKEN: Well, he called my friend Jerry Garcia just a dead doper when he died.
BROWN: Yes.
FRANKEN: This is a guy who has been so harsh, so mean to people who have taken drugs. Yes, I feel bad that he's addicted to whatever he's addicted to and he's going through a difficult time. And forgiveness is part of recovery. And I'd like to be able to forgive this guy.
But I can't -- what Michael's talking about I think is true. I don't think this guy's going to come back and actually go through the 12 steps and turn his will over to a higher power and actually work a program of rigorous honesty, because that's -- if he did, he'd have nothing. He'd have nothing left.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Last word.
WOLFF: Let me propose another scenario. The real issue here is the felony.
BROWN: Yes.
WOLFF: If there is, if he is charged, then, even by his contract, he's off the air. The contract is null and void. He's finished. So, right now, that has to be first and foremost on his mind. How do you avoid that? And the interesting thing, is, those 20 million people, if they stay loyal to him, if I were a prosecutor in Florida, I certainly wouldn't want to provoke them. He is and remains an incredibly powerful and insidious force.
BROWN: Well, I'll give you powerful and I'll let you say insidious. It's nice to see you.
Al, it's always nice to see you. Thanks, both of you, for coming in tonight to talk about this.
WOLFF: Thank you.
BROWN: It was a fascinating day.
Still ahead on the program: a new breast cancer study. Some doctors are calling it a breakthrough. Maybe it is a little bit less than that, but it's not insignificant. And later, a Nobel Peace Prize, a first for Iran.
A break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Still ahead tonight: the Kobe Bryant case and the language of rape. We'll also take a look at a new breast cancer study. Lots to do.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We left here last night with a bit of unfinished business, we thought, in our discussion of the Kobe Bryant case. So many things happened in that hearing in Colorado, a hearing many thought would not take place at all. The prosecution laid out the outlines of it case. The defense established that it was not much interested in gentility.
In our program, we heard the word shocking and sleaze, and more. So we revisit it tonight to finish some of the unfinished business.
We're joined from Charlottesville, Virginia, by Slate.com writer Dahlia Lithwick.
Nice to see you again.
On our morning call this morning, one of the women on the call suggested that there's a kind of -- I'm not sure she was adopting the argument, but just suggesting that it was out there, that, in some rape cases, it is being argued that no, the word no, is not enough, that, in the language of men and women, sometimes no doesn't quite mean no.
DAHLIA LITHWICK, SLATE.COM: Right.
There's certainly a problem, initially, with all rape cases, which is that, unlike, say, a mugging, where I don't have to say no, in rape cases, it's unlike any other assault, where something has to be done, because there is a presumption, I think, that women want to be having sex unless they say no. So I think, initially, there's already a very strange presumption that sets rape off from other kinds of assault.
BROWN: I noticed a kind of interesting thing just in looking through the e-mails today, that, from many women, there were notes saying, if she had really not wanted to have sex with Kobe Bryant, she would have done more. She would have fought him off. She would have been much more assertive than the detective claims that she was.
LITHWICK: One of the most fascinating things about rape, Aaron, is that women are harder, women jurors are much harder on rape victims than men. You learn in law school that, if you are defending a rapist, what you really want is a bunch of young women jurors, because we're incredibly judgmental. We're able to put ourselves in that situation and say, I would have kicked his eyes out, but I wouldn't put up with this.
BROWN: Yes. It was just really clear in the notes.
A couple of things from the case yesterday. I'm interested in your take. Six times, I think it was, the defense used her name. Obviously, that was a shot across the bow. Do you have mixed feelings about that?
LITHWICK: Well, you and I talked a few months back about rape shield laws and their efficacy. And I think this sort of goes right to the heart of what we were discussing.
Not only do rape shield laws kind of hurt men, but it's fairly clear from yesterday's performance they don't really help women. We had 30 years of legal reform that tried to get away from the notion that you could name a rape victim. And, within seconds, in a preliminary hearing, it was happening. So it's fairly clear that all these reforms are not working and that if a not very fair-minded defense attorney wants to get around a traditional gag order, she will simply do it. And the name is out there for the public to hear.
BROWN: Were you surprised by the aggressiveness -- especially in a preliminary hearing -- the aggressiveness of the defense yesterday?
LITHWICK: I was surprised. It was clear the gloves were off. And what's not clear to me is why.
I guess there's a notion that we are going to defend Kobe Bryant, whatever that takes. And if it means treating this woman like a tramp for the world to see, we'll fall on our sword and do it. I think that the prosecution was completely taken aback. I don't think they had any expectation that it would get this ugly this quickly.
BROWN: It certainly did.
It's good to see you. As this goes on and we have questions, I hope we can call on you again. Thank you.
LITHWICK: Always a pleasure.
BROWN: Good to see you.
A couple of other things to do here. This is something you don't hear every day, not often enough, in fact, medical news so good that it's being announced weeks ahead of time, so good that the study which the announcement is based upon was actually stopped early, so that the women in the study, the women who were getting the placebo could be given the drug that's being tested instead. It's hard to excite scientists, but they are excited about this.
The details from CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. PAUL GOSS, STUDY AUTHOR: The results of this study unquestionably offer new hope to hundreds of thousands of breast cancer patients and their families.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The hope comes from a new study that some experts are calling a breakthrough in the treatment of breast cancer. The results were so good that "The New England Journal of Medicine" released the findings early, publicizing the benefits of the drug called Femara.
DR. JAMES INGLE, STUDY AUTHOR: The magnitude of the benefit was so significant that, in fact, this trial was stopped very early.
COHEN: The study looked at women who had had surgery for their breast cancer and then took the drug tamoxifen for five years. Then, when they switched to Femara, the women cut their risk of getting breast cancer again by nearly half.
The study showed that, for every 100 patients taking Femara for four years, the drug would prevent six women from getting new or recurring cancers. Experts say this study will have an immediate effect on patient care, something breast cancer survivors are very excited about.
SALLY WILKERSON, BREAST CANCER PATIENT: This gives me one more treatment option, which is something I did not have yesterday.
COHEN: Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Clearly, there's a lot to talk about here. And we'll just get to a bit of it. We're joined now by Dr. Harold Burstein, a breast cancer specialist at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston and assistant professor of medicine at Harvard.
It's nice to see you on a Friday. We appreciate it.
You describe this as not exactly a home run, but a good base hit. Base hits matter, I guess, huh?
DR. HAROLD BURSTEIN, DANA-FARBER CANCER INSTITUTE: They do. And thank you for having me here this evening. This is a solid single in the war or the battle against breast cancer. There are many times when we would like to think we have a home run, but it turns out that, in breast cancer research, we've actually made a lot of progress over the past few years by solid hits and advancing things one step at a time. And this is another good example of that.
BROWN: Do we know why the drug works or do we just know that it works?
BURSTEIN: We know it works because it depletes the body further of estrogen. This is a drug suitable for postmenopausal women. And in those women who already have lower estrogen levels than premenopausal women, the medicine Letrozole and medicines like it further drops the levels of estrogens that are circulating. So, really, it's estrogen-deprivation therapy for these women.
BROWN: And, to the extent you can, the estrogen helps fuel the return of the cancer?
BURSTEIN: We know that, in some women who are having breast cancer recurrence, estrogen can drive that process. And so, by further depriving the tumor cells of estrogen, you can effectively treat and, in this case, prevent some cancer recurrences.
BROWN: Do we know how long you can use the drug? It replaces a drug or it augments a therapy that has gone on for five years. But the efficacy requires that you stop it after five years. Do we know about this drug?
BURSTEIN: We do not know about this drug. And that's one of the interesting consequences of the early closure of the study.
The study planned to treat people for five years with Letrozole. But because it was stopped early because of this finding, we only know that somewhere between two and three years of therapy is effective. I think one of the follow-up studies that will arise from this trial is a set of trials to look at the optimal duration of treatment with this new medicine.
BROWN: In the universe of all women who have breast cancer, how many women will fit into the category where this drug is helpful?
BURSTEIN: So, the importance of this study is that it does affect the largest group of women with breast cancer. That is postmenopausal women, whose tumors express the estrogen receptor or are so-called hormone-sensitive. That is by far the largest group of women with breast cancer. And It's probably the case that a couple hundred thousand women every year in the U.S., Canada and Western Europe, would finish five years of tamoxifen and be potential candidates for this new therapy.
BROWN: Side-effects a problem here?
BURSTEIN: Yes, there are side-effects from this treatment. Those include the symptoms of estrogen deprivation, such as hot flashes and night sweats. The medicine can also cause muscle aches and bone pains.
And, most significantly and most worrisome, this medicine clearly can contribute to osteoporosis. So one of the other things this study will prompt us to do is to look for newer and better ways to screen women for osteoporosis and to treat it, especially without using hormone-replacement therapy in these breast cancer survivors.
BROWN: Doc, thanks a lot. You did a terrific job of explaining this really well tonight. Thank you very much.
BURSTEIN: Thank you. Pleasure to be here.
BROWN: Still ahead on the program, we'll introduce you to a champion of human rights and the latest winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.
And, of course, later, morning papers well before they hit your front porch.
We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It's fair to say this came as a surprise, and a pleasure one, at that. This year's Nobel Peace Prize went to a woman and, for the first time ever, a Muslim woman. This was big news, as we say, except in the winner's home country.
Here's CNN's Christiane Amanpour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations. Fantastic.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shirin Ebadi, lawyer and human rights activist, was a long shot for the prestigious Nobel Peace Prize. Indeed, few outside Iran may have ever heard of the woman who beat out even the pope and former Czech President Vaclav Havel.
SHIRIN EBADI, NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER (through translator): The beauty of life is that a person fights against the difficulties. If I was working in a country that there was freedom and democracy and I did not face any difficulties, and in that environment, I fought for the rights of women, I would not be so proud as I am today.
AMANPOUR: She herself has been imprisoned several times for her outspoken work, including for investigating the attack on students after demonstrations at Tehran University in 1999. The Nobel Committee paid this tribute as it announced her win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has spoken out clearly and strongly in her country, Iran, and far beyond its borders. She has stood up as a sound professional, a courageous person, and has never heeded the threats to her own safety. AMANPOUR: For its part, Iran seemed to be caught off guard by the award. At first, officials representing the reformist government of President Khatami warmly congratulated her. But later, an official Iranian staple was read on state television simply noting her win and saying that it recognized outstanding work.
At her press conference, her head uncovered, something she would be unable to do in Iran, Ebadi made reference to the tension between reformers and powerful hard-liners and appealed for unity on behalf of human rights in her country.
EBADI (through translator): If we do the right interpretation of Islam, we can totally be pro-human rights. Therefore, the religious people should actually welcome this award and should support the Nobel Peace Prize.
AMANPOUR: While many inside and outside Iran wonder whether this prize will spur on democracy and reform there, Ebadi herself is more cautious, saying that she will wait to see whether the Iranian government will support her return and continued work.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: All right, what better way to end a long week than morning papers. Don't answer. I'm sure you can think of several things, but that's the way we're going to end it.
And we'll start with "The Oregonian," the newspaper of Portland, Oregon, the winner of the Pulitzer Prize. And they actually won it, unlike some people who claim to, the 2001 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. They lead with the vice president on Iraq. "Cheney Rips Critics." But a couple interesting local stories, I found. UP here, "September Job Count Gives Hope to Oregon." Good news, that. Down at the bottom, "Oregon Food Bank Use Climbs 10 Percent in Year." Kind of the yin and yang of it all, huh?
"The Dallas Morning News." A nice local story and it's an interesting story for all of us. "Twin Surgery Set Today." Surgery is going to be done in Dallas to separate two -- obviously two -- co- joined youngsters, 2-year-olds. It will go on in a Dallas hospital. And we wish them nothing but good to come their way. The Nobel Prize finds its way on many front pages, including "The Dallas Morning News."
Only one minute left.
Rush Limbaugh on most front pages. "Rush: 'I'm Addicted.' Talk Show Host to Check into Drug Rehab." Honestly, you want to know the truth about this from me? I feel terrible for the guy. I think it's a horrible thing to have to come out and admit to that and deal with it. And it's not easy to deal with it in any circumstance. To be a public person and have to deal with it is pretty bad. So we wish him, honestly, nothing but good luck.
"Remember Dan Snyder" also on the front page. This is a hockey player who died in a terrible car accident driven by one of his -- car driven by one of his teammates, who now faces very serious charges also. I bet we're running low on time.
"Boston Herald." "Ready Some Bronx Bustin'. Pedro and the Sox Aim to Lasso Clemens" -- lasso -- lasso Clemens -- "and Yanks in ALCS Showdown." That's tomorrow.
And let's end it with "The Chicago Sun-Times." "Ex-Prof Indicted in Hamas Probe." Here, Limbaugh on the front page, too. "Limbaugh Admits Painkiller Addiction." The weather tomorrow is "fish boil," as in Marlins. For those of you not paying close attention, the Cubs are playing the Marlins.
I'm on assignment most of next week. I'll be here Tuesday. But I hope you'll be here all week. Why not? We'll see you then.
Good night.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Philly Mayor Subject of Federal Investigation>
Aired October 10, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
The gods of humility have a way of paying a visit to all of us eventually, when we are too sure of ourselves or too full of ourselves the gods of humility come knocking at the door.
As one who has been paid such a visit I could tell you it is rarely welcome and rarely unneeded. The humility gods came knocking on Rush Limbaugh's door today. Surely it was humbling for Mr. Limbaugh to tell his audience that he is a drug addict, no different really than the drug addicts he has condemned along the way.
And while from time to time he has taken a shot at us and this program and this network we take no shots at him, no gloating or joy. One visit from the humility gods is quite enough.
It is Rush that begins the whip. CNN's Susan Candiotti starts us off with a headline, Susan begin please.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, as you said one week after a woman's stunning claim she illegally sold Rush Limbaugh drugs the talk show host admits he's an addict. He does not yet answer her allegations he paid her for pills -- Aaron.
BROWN: Susan, thank you. We'll get you to the top tonight.
On to the White House next, tough talk and new policy aimed at bringing democracy to Cuba, CNN's Suzanne Malveaux with the headline -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, President Bush is calling for regime change -- not military action -- but this time the president has his sights on Cuba.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.
Next to the Pentagon and Guantanamo Bay, a chaplain who's under arrest, Barbara Starr a headline from you please.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the Muslim Army chaplain now officially facing charges in the espionage probe at Guantanamo Bay.
BROWN: Barbara, thank you. And finally, the Philadelphia story involving the mayor, the bug and a federal investigation. CNN's Jason Carroll on that for us so, Jason, a headline.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, Aaron, government sources say that the mayor is the subject of a federal investigation, the mayor still suspicious about the timing of all of this, one of his top aides calling the investigation a bunch of bull -- Aaron.
BROWN: That sort of says it, doesn't it, Jason thank you, back to you and the rest.
Coming up also in the program tonight a discussion, a gentle one we hope about pride and the fall and the climb ahead for Rush Limbaugh. The author Al Franken and media critic Michael Wolff will join us.
We'll also talk with a cancer researcher about a breakthrough, not a home run but a solid base hit as he says for women being treated for breast cancer. This is a story actually we saw last night when we were doing papers, which is our way of saying you never know what we'll find but the rooster does know and so will you before we're done on this Friday night.
All that and more in the hour ahead, we begin with the moment that pains as many as it pleases such as the lot of Rush Limbaugh. Such too are the rough and tumble times that many believe he and his opponents have helped to create.
A poison well to some, a whirlwind to be sure, and into it today came an extraordinary admission of weakness for a person who on the air at least tolerates none of it.
Here again CNN's Susan Candiotti.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI (voice-over): One week after promising to have more to say about drug allegations, Rush Limbaugh began to address the issue near the end of his daily radio show.
RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Part of what you have heard and read in the past week is correct. I am addicted to prescription pain medication.
CANDIOTTI: Limbaugh said he'd been asked not to comment on a criminal investigation that first surfaced last week.
Law enforcement sources in Florida confirm they're investigating claims by a former housekeeper that she illegally sold him thousands of prescription painkillers, including OxyContin and Hydrocodone. Limbaugh told listeners his problem started years ago after continued pain following spinal surgery.
LIMBAUGH: Rather than opt for additional surgery for these conditions I chose to treat the pain with prescribed medication and this medication turned out to be highly addictive.
CANDIOTTI: Sources close to the investigation tell CNN the woman who made the claims against Limbaugh has turned over e-mails and answering machine messages in which a voice sounding like his appears to ask for pills. Limbaugh told his audience he's been in detox twice and is now voluntarily entering a 30-day program again.
LIMBAUGH: I'm not making any excuses and I don't intend to. You know over the years athletes, celebrities have emerged from these treatment centers. They've come out to great fanfare and praise for conquering great demons. They are said to be great role models and examples for others. They've gotten a lot of praise for doing this. Well, I want you to know that I'm no role model.
CANDIOTTI: CNN has learned high profile criminal defense attorney Roy Black in the last couple of days has met with the Palm Beach County State Attorney's Office to discuss Limbaugh's situation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: Sources will not comment as to whether Limbaugh or even the housekeeper will be charged; however, they add that today's admission by Limbaugh that he is a drug addict cannot be considered a mitigating factor in the courts in terms of any aspect of this investigation according to Florida law -- Aaron.
BROWN: According to Florida law what sort of problems does someone hooked on prescription drugs face, felony charges?
CANDIOTTI: It could range from a mere misdemeanor of illegal possession to felony charges of trafficking depending on the amount of drugs that might possibly be involved here.
However, investigative sources continue to stress here that they've been continuously targeting suppliers and sellers as part of this ongoing investigation not necessarily addicts so we'll see whether anyone's charged.
BROWN: Susan, thank you, Susan Candiotti.
A little bit later in the program we'll talk with Al Franken who has, of course, written about Mr. Limbaugh and columnist Michael Wolff, the media critic for "New York" magazine who has written about Mr. Limbaugh as well and both have been targets of Mr. Limbaugh.
On to other business first, charges against a chaplain who ministered to inmates at Guantanamo Bay, though not the charges many expected though they may come still. And new criticism today of conditions inside the camp from an organization that has a lot of clout and traditionally shies away from publicity, from the Pentagon tonight CNN's Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
STARR (voice-over): Muslim Army Chaplain Captain James Yee now faces two counts of failing to obey orders, specifically carrying classified information about al Qaeda and Taliban detainees and the Guantanamo Bay camp where they are held.
Yee may still face charges of espionage, sources tell CNN, and it's not clear whether there are links between him and two other men under arrest in the espionage probe, also under scrutiny the treatment of the detainees themselves. Former federal judges are urging the Supreme Court to ensure the detainees get legal rights.
JOHN GIBBONS, FORMER THIRD CIRCUIT COURT JUDGE: The idea that American Executive Branch personnel, particularly military personnel, can detain people beyond the reach of habeas corpus is just repugnant to the rule of law.
STARR: The International Committee of the Red Cross, which monitors international prisoners and has inspected the camp is again raising rare public concerns. Friday, a top Red Cross official told CNN:
"The particular element for us that is unacceptable is that after 18 months of captivity the internees still have no idea about their fate and no means of recourse through any legal mechanisms."
The White House insists the detainees must be held to make sure they don't help others carry out more attacks.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Keep in mind that we're talking about enemy combatants, people that are enemies of the United States that have assisted or provided support to attacks against the United States.
STARR (on camera): Red Cross officials say there is another problem. After 18 months of captivity the mental health of the detainees is badly deteriorating.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: President Bush today stepped up pressure on Cuba's communist government. A joker on our staff said the plan is to infiltrate the island with Muslim guerrilla fighters. Hey, it worked with the Soviets in Afghanistan.
In fact, much of what the president has in mind is preventing Americans and their money from traveling to Cuba. To many Republicans and Democrats this policy makes little sense. It hasn't worked and isn't likely to work in the future. They see more trade and more contact as a better way. The president clearly disagrees, the story from CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush calling for democracy and the fall of another regime.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today we are confident no matter what the dictator intends or plans, Cuba (unintelligible).
MALVEAUX: This time it's Cuba and a communist leader Fidel Castro. Today in a Rose Garden ceremony the president announced new initiatives aimed at bringing economic and political reforms to the communist state.
BUSH: This country loves freedom and we know that the enemy of every tyrant is the truth. We're determined to bring the truth to the people who suffer under Fidel Castro.
MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush's plan includes cracking down on illegal tourism, allowing more Cuban immigrants into the U.S. each year, boosting anti-Castro broadcasts in Cuba and establishing a committee to prepare for the day Fidel is gone.
One year ago the Cuban leader ignored Mr. Bush's offer to ease economic sanctions in exchange for democratic reforms but critics say the U.S. embargo has failed to improve the lives of the Cuban people and that the motive for today's announcement is political as Mr. Bush tried to maintain the crucial Cuban-American vote for Election 2004.
Democratic Senator Max Baucus released a statement saying: "I would hope that at some point we could move beyond a policy toward Cuba that is held hostage by the politics of the electoral college."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now, Mr. Bush is the tenth U.S. president since Fidel Castro took power in 1959. Some critics say that democracy will come to Cuba not through U.S. isolation but rather engagement -- Aaron.
BROWN: Was the president even asked the question of the political, a political motivation for today's announcement?
MALVEAUX: Well, certainly the reason why this is coming now is for two reasons. They're modest initiative but first of all they've been calling for some action for some time. The last six months there have been some human rights violations that have increased inside of Cuba.
But, secondly, make no mistake it is not a secret that the Bush administration is courting the Cuban-American population, specifically those in Florida, a key constituency that helped him when the controversial victory for the presidency out of Florida in Election 2000, some of those Cuban-Americans in the audience today at the Rose Garden when he announced that initiative.
BROWN: Suzanne, thank you. Have a good weekend, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.
To call Fidel Castro a thorn in President Bush's side would be to both over and understate the case. Cuba itself is a basket case in many respects, a dagger pointed right at the heart of UNICEF.
Just the same, a nuclear war was nearly fought over it and the country has been a vexation and a puzzlement to American presidents ever since. So, from reaction there we turn to Havana and CNN's Lucia Newman -- Lucia.
LUCIA NEWMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, mums the word here, not a peep, not a sound, not a single comment in fact or reference to President Bush's speech on Cuban state-run television today which is a public holiday here in this country, which means then that most ordinary Cubans haven't even heard about the announcement.
The only comment there was from the government came from the head of the Cuban interests section in Washington Dagoberto Rodriguez who accused President Bush of being a lawless cowboy.
DAGOBERTO RODRIGUEZ, HEAD OF CUBAN INTERESTS SECTION (through translator): Cubans know very well what we want to do and achieve and we feel very satisfied. Every day we busy ourselves with improving our revolution and we will continue on that path. Let them waste their time while we in Havana continue to calmly work to improve our society, to improve our lives, and laugh a little at all these shenanigans.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
NEWMAN: Now while Mr. Rodriguez may be trying to sound rather nonchalant it's very clear that the Cuban leadership here did not like what it heard from the White House today.
For example, the plans to form a special commission, a special task force to find ways to hasten the end of Cuban communism is sure to have played very badly at the Politburo.
Those sorts of things make people nervous here and the Cuban government is likely to play this off as the kind of evidence or sign that the United States is planning new subversive plots against the Cuban revolution.
Also announced, while not unexpected, are plans to now bring TV and Radio Martine via satellite into Cuba, which is very likely to make President Fidel Castro see red. Cuba says that this is an absolute violation of international law and communications norms.
However we did speak to a prominent dissident Flavenido Rocha (ph) who told me today that he applauded the move. He says this will help break the Cuban government information blockade around the Cuban people. So, Aaron, it will be interesting to see just how this develops once the satellite transmissions actually begin.
BROWN: A couple of quick questions here I want to get to. Does any single day go by when you don't see an American tourist in Cuba?
NEWMAN: No, Aaron, absolutely not, at least not until the end of this year because there are some groups that have licenses to bring Americans here under the so-called educational program. But as we heard earlier, President Bush is working very, very hard to cut that and make it almost impossible for Americans to come here as tourists.
BROWN: Lots of Americans or many Americans come from Florida, take the boat for the day. They go into ports in Cuba. They come home later. The Cubans are very receptive to that and that goes on all the time.
NEWMAN: It does. People come here to Havana's marina, Hemingway for example on their boats and what's illegal here is not to come to Cuba technically but rather to spend a single penny here. But the Treasury Department has been cracking down on that. A lot of other Americans, though, come through third countries.
They come through Canada, through Mexico, Jamaica and that too now apparently is going to be kept a very close eye on the people that get off the planes from Canada, for example and then followed to the new boarding gates going to the United States and they're stopped by U.S. Customs and the fines start, Aaron, at $7,500.
BROWN: Lucia good to see you, Lucia Newman in Havana tonight.
Another deadly day in Iraq, two Americans killed in a Shiite neighborhood in Baghdad. The Army called it an ambush.
Back in Washington it was Vice President Cheney's turn to restate the case for going to war. Speaking at the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think tank in Washington, the vice president slammed those who question the rationale.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If the United States has been constrained by the objections of some the regime of Saddam Hussein would still rule Iraq. His statues would still stand. His sons would still be running the secret police. Dissidents would still be in prison.
The apparatus of torture and rape would still be in place and the mass graves would be undiscovered. We must never forget the kind of man who ran that country and the depravity of his regime.
BROWN: The vice president made only the slightest reference to the difficulties in Iraq these days and made no mention at all of the casualties today. In fact, in both word and tone his speech was harsher, more uncompromising than the president's talk of a day ago.
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight Michael Wolff and Al Franken here to talk about Rush Limbaugh and his drug addiction.
Plus, an FBI investigation and the mayor in the middle of it all.
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Now don't get the wrong idea. Just because the FBI planted a listening device in the office of the mayor of Philadelphia that does not mean the mayor is the target of an investigation, no, nothing of the sort. Government sources made clear today, if clear is the right word to use, that the mayor isn't the target of an investigation. He's the subject of an investigation. We're hoping Jason Carroll can explain.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice-over): Federal government sources tell CNN Philadelphia Mayor John Street is the subject of a federal investigation although at this point it's unclear what the investigation is all about.
An aide close to the mayor called the investigation "totally political bull" saying it's "a fishing expedition." The mayor says he's been told almost nothing.
MAYOR JOHN STREET (D), PHILADELPHIA: A bad guy in these investigations is the target and I know I am not the target.
CARROLL: According to the Justice Department, a target is a person who prosecutors have evidence linking to a crime. A subject is a person whose conduct is within the scope of the investigation. Is it possible that the mayor can become the target or that federal officials are instead investigating someone close to him? U.S. Attorney Patrick Mehan (ph) won't say.
Legal experts say approval to plant an electronic listening device in the office of a big city mayor up for reelection must have come from a federal judge and the Justice Department.
DANIEL MILLER, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: It goes to main Justice in Washington where they have a whole bureaucracy that looks at the application.
CARROLL: Federal law enforcement sources tell CNN Attorney General John Ashcroft and his top aides were not involved in the decision. The Democratic mayor suspects this all may be politically and racially motivated and that the investigation could be a Republican conspiracy to get him out of office.
STREET: The timing of all this is suspicious.
CARROLL: Street now acknowledges he turned over one of his wireless e-mail devices to the authorities on Tuesday, the day the bug was found. Street's opponent says he believes the mayor must know more than he's saying.
SAM KATZ (R), PHILADELPHIA MAYORAL CANDIDATE: I don't think that the Justice Department or the FBI put a wire in the mayor's office and then only told him he was not a target of a U.S. Attorney's Office investigation.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: Democrats and some Republicans, like Senator Arlen Specter, have come out and said that the Feds need to come out and clear the air about this investigation. Today, the Democratic National Committee released a statement saying that the Justice Department should not be used as a machine to create a cloud of suspicion around Democratic candidates -- back to you.
BROWN: Well, how embarrassed must the FBI be that their bug was found but that notwithstanding talk just a little bit about the campaign because this is a rerun of a campaign that was especially nasty the first time out.
CARROLL: It's a very close campaign, Aaron, and what we're seeing in the city of Philadelphia is because of what's happening with this most recent development it is really splitting the city along racial lines.
And this is a campaign where you've got both candidates who are very sure about their stand on this issue and you've got people in the city that are very clear about what they believe.
And both sides agree, at least on one point, and that is it would be very helpful for some people in the federal government, whether it be the FBI or someone from the U.S. Attorney's Office to come out and clear the air about exactly what this investigation is about.
BROWN: Jason, thank you very much, Jason Carroll with us tonight.
A few stories from around the country now, beginning with the latest on who exposed the wife of former Ambassador James Wilson as a CIA agent. CNN has learned that a number of White House staffers were interviewed by the FBI today as part of an investigation into that leak. Government sources did not say which officials the FBI talked to but they did say that White House Senior Political Adviser Carl Rove was not among them.
In Tampa, Florida today a federal judge said he had no jurisdiction in the case of a severely brain damaged comatose woman whose husband wants to remove a feeding tube from her. Terry Schiavo's (ph) parents had filed the suit to keep the removal schedule for Wednesday from happening. This has become a huge case for those in the right to life movement in this country and abroad.
And, in New Jersey, the parents of a girl paralyzed by a drunken football fan refilled a lawsuit they filed two years ago. This time they named the NFL and its Commissioner Paul Tagliabue in the suit saying they promoted the kind of behavior, drinking, excessive drinking that led to the accident that suit in New Jersey.
Still ahead tonight, the Kobe Bryant case when no isn't enough.
And a little bit later more on the Rush Limbaugh case with Al Franken and Michael Wolff.
We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: OK, here's the truth of it. Rush Limbaugh has been more than a bit unkind to me more than once. He's also been unkind to Al Franken, who in turn has been unkind to him. He's taken shots at Michael Wolff, "New York" magazine's media critic and Michael is hardly the retiring sort.
So, here we all are, Alan, Michael and me and the subject is Rush made worse no doubt by the permanent smirk that seems to be attached to my face. Welcome to you all. Al, let's start with you. Does it matter do you think that the drugs that Mr. Limbaugh is addicted to are prescription drugs as opposed to recreational drugs?
AL FRANKEN, POLITICAL SATIRIST: Well, no. I mean in terms of addiction, no.
BROWN: No, in terms of how...
FRANKEN: No. I think addiction is addiction.
BROWN: In terms of how people will see it, in terms of how you see it.
FRANKEN: No. You can't be addicted to this kind of drug and get this amount of drugs without breaking the law so it seems to me that in terms of the hypocrisy of always calling for people -- I have something they said from '95 in which it says: "If people are violating the law by doing drug they ought to be accused. They ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up."
And, I think that the issue that we're confronted with by this, I hope that we'll get to and I feel bad for the guy that he's addicted to this prescription drugs or whatever he's addicted to, the issue really is is drug laws in this country and there are people sitting in prison who are guilty only of being drug addicts and they're in jail because of possession.
It sounds like, I mean I don't want to prejudge this investigation but it sounds like Rush was involved in a drug ring.
BROWN: Michael, let me take the same question but add something to it, a) does it matter that it was prescription drugs and not -- he wasn't out snorting coke for the fun of it, OK, and how he came to be addicted and all of that, assuming he's telling the truth and I have no reason to believe he's not; and, b) will it matter to his audience at all?
MICHAEL WOLFF, "NEW YORK" MAGAZINE: Well, I think this is the question. It's the question on everyone's -- certainly on the minds of his audience, on the minds of people who are not his audience and foremost on his own mind. Can he get away with it? And getting...
BROWN: Can he get away with it?
WOLFF: Can he get away with it? Can he come back and it's on two fronts. Number one there is an investigation here. He could be charged with a felony but then there's this other larger getting away with it which is can he return to his audience and not have them, these 20 million people, see him as a hypocrite? And that may be finally the issue here. I mean he has been, I mean he has been as -- a demagogic on the subject of drugs and people addicted to drugs as anyone else and now here he is whether those drugs are prescription drugs or not prescription drugs, he is still suddenly helpless.
BROWN: I want to get to Al's question in a second. Let me just work with this for one more minute.
In an odd way, I guess I wonder if his audience can accept Rush as anything other than the Rush they've had, the absolutely confident, self-assured, bombastic, and perfect, or nearly so.
WOLFF: My guess is that they can.
So, therefore, he has to get around this. And, right now, I think we have the sort of -- he's -- this is the Arnold defense. He's rushed in there to say, yes, it's true. Yes, he's going to solve the problem. And he's admitting to it and trying to get to that point as fast as possible, where he can say, as Arnold did, that's old news. Whether this works or not, I don't know. We're going to see.
But this is exactly the media strategy that he's employing right now.
BROWN: Al, do you think this is a media strategy or that it's the only option he had? He's under investigation. It was all coming down on him. All you can do is say it's true and deal with it, right?
FRANKEN: Well, yes, I suppose so.
He's going to have to go into rehab. He's going -- if he's going to go into recovery, he's got to work a 12-step program. Those programs are based on rigorous honesty. Then I don't think he'll have a show.
BROWN: Why?
FRANKEN: I don't think he can do a show based on rigorous honesty, frankly. He won't have anything to do.
BROWN: You don't think he can be, in his mind, honest, in his mind, and do the program that he's been doing?
FRANKEN: No.
BROWN: Just take the drug stuff out of it for a minute and talk about everything else?
FRANKEN: No, I don't think he can do a rigorously honest show.
I have listened to him enough, read enough books on him, that he is always -- he's a dishonest demagogue.
WOLFF: But aren't you presupposing that he's going to be honest in that instance, when it certainly fits the profile here that this is not about honesty? This is not about recovery. This is about maintaining a media empire.
BROWN: See, you're seeing this as a business moment, aren't you?
WOLFF: Completely, absolutely, in every possible way. I don't think that there's a bone in this man's body that is not a business bone.
BROWN: That he's trying to protect a $200 million deal.
WOLFF: Two hundred and fifty million dollar, indeed.
BROWN: I was rounding it off.
(CROSSTALK)
FRANKEN: Well, I think it shows one thing, which is that $250 million doesn't make a man as happy as $200 million and a fistful of OxyContin.
BROWN: Look, I know you both sort of -- you got to feel bad for the guy. This was humiliating.
(CROSSTALK)
FRANKEN: Well, he called my friend Jerry Garcia just a dead doper when he died.
BROWN: Yes.
FRANKEN: This is a guy who has been so harsh, so mean to people who have taken drugs. Yes, I feel bad that he's addicted to whatever he's addicted to and he's going through a difficult time. And forgiveness is part of recovery. And I'd like to be able to forgive this guy.
But I can't -- what Michael's talking about I think is true. I don't think this guy's going to come back and actually go through the 12 steps and turn his will over to a higher power and actually work a program of rigorous honesty, because that's -- if he did, he'd have nothing. He'd have nothing left.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Last word.
WOLFF: Let me propose another scenario. The real issue here is the felony.
BROWN: Yes.
WOLFF: If there is, if he is charged, then, even by his contract, he's off the air. The contract is null and void. He's finished. So, right now, that has to be first and foremost on his mind. How do you avoid that? And the interesting thing, is, those 20 million people, if they stay loyal to him, if I were a prosecutor in Florida, I certainly wouldn't want to provoke them. He is and remains an incredibly powerful and insidious force.
BROWN: Well, I'll give you powerful and I'll let you say insidious. It's nice to see you.
Al, it's always nice to see you. Thanks, both of you, for coming in tonight to talk about this.
WOLFF: Thank you.
BROWN: It was a fascinating day.
Still ahead on the program: a new breast cancer study. Some doctors are calling it a breakthrough. Maybe it is a little bit less than that, but it's not insignificant. And later, a Nobel Peace Prize, a first for Iran.
A break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Still ahead tonight: the Kobe Bryant case and the language of rape. We'll also take a look at a new breast cancer study. Lots to do.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We left here last night with a bit of unfinished business, we thought, in our discussion of the Kobe Bryant case. So many things happened in that hearing in Colorado, a hearing many thought would not take place at all. The prosecution laid out the outlines of it case. The defense established that it was not much interested in gentility.
In our program, we heard the word shocking and sleaze, and more. So we revisit it tonight to finish some of the unfinished business.
We're joined from Charlottesville, Virginia, by Slate.com writer Dahlia Lithwick.
Nice to see you again.
On our morning call this morning, one of the women on the call suggested that there's a kind of -- I'm not sure she was adopting the argument, but just suggesting that it was out there, that, in some rape cases, it is being argued that no, the word no, is not enough, that, in the language of men and women, sometimes no doesn't quite mean no.
DAHLIA LITHWICK, SLATE.COM: Right.
There's certainly a problem, initially, with all rape cases, which is that, unlike, say, a mugging, where I don't have to say no, in rape cases, it's unlike any other assault, where something has to be done, because there is a presumption, I think, that women want to be having sex unless they say no. So I think, initially, there's already a very strange presumption that sets rape off from other kinds of assault.
BROWN: I noticed a kind of interesting thing just in looking through the e-mails today, that, from many women, there were notes saying, if she had really not wanted to have sex with Kobe Bryant, she would have done more. She would have fought him off. She would have been much more assertive than the detective claims that she was.
LITHWICK: One of the most fascinating things about rape, Aaron, is that women are harder, women jurors are much harder on rape victims than men. You learn in law school that, if you are defending a rapist, what you really want is a bunch of young women jurors, because we're incredibly judgmental. We're able to put ourselves in that situation and say, I would have kicked his eyes out, but I wouldn't put up with this.
BROWN: Yes. It was just really clear in the notes.
A couple of things from the case yesterday. I'm interested in your take. Six times, I think it was, the defense used her name. Obviously, that was a shot across the bow. Do you have mixed feelings about that?
LITHWICK: Well, you and I talked a few months back about rape shield laws and their efficacy. And I think this sort of goes right to the heart of what we were discussing.
Not only do rape shield laws kind of hurt men, but it's fairly clear from yesterday's performance they don't really help women. We had 30 years of legal reform that tried to get away from the notion that you could name a rape victim. And, within seconds, in a preliminary hearing, it was happening. So it's fairly clear that all these reforms are not working and that if a not very fair-minded defense attorney wants to get around a traditional gag order, she will simply do it. And the name is out there for the public to hear.
BROWN: Were you surprised by the aggressiveness -- especially in a preliminary hearing -- the aggressiveness of the defense yesterday?
LITHWICK: I was surprised. It was clear the gloves were off. And what's not clear to me is why.
I guess there's a notion that we are going to defend Kobe Bryant, whatever that takes. And if it means treating this woman like a tramp for the world to see, we'll fall on our sword and do it. I think that the prosecution was completely taken aback. I don't think they had any expectation that it would get this ugly this quickly.
BROWN: It certainly did.
It's good to see you. As this goes on and we have questions, I hope we can call on you again. Thank you.
LITHWICK: Always a pleasure.
BROWN: Good to see you.
A couple of other things to do here. This is something you don't hear every day, not often enough, in fact, medical news so good that it's being announced weeks ahead of time, so good that the study which the announcement is based upon was actually stopped early, so that the women in the study, the women who were getting the placebo could be given the drug that's being tested instead. It's hard to excite scientists, but they are excited about this.
The details from CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. PAUL GOSS, STUDY AUTHOR: The results of this study unquestionably offer new hope to hundreds of thousands of breast cancer patients and their families.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The hope comes from a new study that some experts are calling a breakthrough in the treatment of breast cancer. The results were so good that "The New England Journal of Medicine" released the findings early, publicizing the benefits of the drug called Femara.
DR. JAMES INGLE, STUDY AUTHOR: The magnitude of the benefit was so significant that, in fact, this trial was stopped very early.
COHEN: The study looked at women who had had surgery for their breast cancer and then took the drug tamoxifen for five years. Then, when they switched to Femara, the women cut their risk of getting breast cancer again by nearly half.
The study showed that, for every 100 patients taking Femara for four years, the drug would prevent six women from getting new or recurring cancers. Experts say this study will have an immediate effect on patient care, something breast cancer survivors are very excited about.
SALLY WILKERSON, BREAST CANCER PATIENT: This gives me one more treatment option, which is something I did not have yesterday.
COHEN: Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Clearly, there's a lot to talk about here. And we'll just get to a bit of it. We're joined now by Dr. Harold Burstein, a breast cancer specialist at the Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston and assistant professor of medicine at Harvard.
It's nice to see you on a Friday. We appreciate it.
You describe this as not exactly a home run, but a good base hit. Base hits matter, I guess, huh?
DR. HAROLD BURSTEIN, DANA-FARBER CANCER INSTITUTE: They do. And thank you for having me here this evening. This is a solid single in the war or the battle against breast cancer. There are many times when we would like to think we have a home run, but it turns out that, in breast cancer research, we've actually made a lot of progress over the past few years by solid hits and advancing things one step at a time. And this is another good example of that.
BROWN: Do we know why the drug works or do we just know that it works?
BURSTEIN: We know it works because it depletes the body further of estrogen. This is a drug suitable for postmenopausal women. And in those women who already have lower estrogen levels than premenopausal women, the medicine Letrozole and medicines like it further drops the levels of estrogens that are circulating. So, really, it's estrogen-deprivation therapy for these women.
BROWN: And, to the extent you can, the estrogen helps fuel the return of the cancer?
BURSTEIN: We know that, in some women who are having breast cancer recurrence, estrogen can drive that process. And so, by further depriving the tumor cells of estrogen, you can effectively treat and, in this case, prevent some cancer recurrences.
BROWN: Do we know how long you can use the drug? It replaces a drug or it augments a therapy that has gone on for five years. But the efficacy requires that you stop it after five years. Do we know about this drug?
BURSTEIN: We do not know about this drug. And that's one of the interesting consequences of the early closure of the study.
The study planned to treat people for five years with Letrozole. But because it was stopped early because of this finding, we only know that somewhere between two and three years of therapy is effective. I think one of the follow-up studies that will arise from this trial is a set of trials to look at the optimal duration of treatment with this new medicine.
BROWN: In the universe of all women who have breast cancer, how many women will fit into the category where this drug is helpful?
BURSTEIN: So, the importance of this study is that it does affect the largest group of women with breast cancer. That is postmenopausal women, whose tumors express the estrogen receptor or are so-called hormone-sensitive. That is by far the largest group of women with breast cancer. And It's probably the case that a couple hundred thousand women every year in the U.S., Canada and Western Europe, would finish five years of tamoxifen and be potential candidates for this new therapy.
BROWN: Side-effects a problem here?
BURSTEIN: Yes, there are side-effects from this treatment. Those include the symptoms of estrogen deprivation, such as hot flashes and night sweats. The medicine can also cause muscle aches and bone pains.
And, most significantly and most worrisome, this medicine clearly can contribute to osteoporosis. So one of the other things this study will prompt us to do is to look for newer and better ways to screen women for osteoporosis and to treat it, especially without using hormone-replacement therapy in these breast cancer survivors.
BROWN: Doc, thanks a lot. You did a terrific job of explaining this really well tonight. Thank you very much.
BURSTEIN: Thank you. Pleasure to be here.
BROWN: Still ahead on the program, we'll introduce you to a champion of human rights and the latest winner of the Nobel Peace Prize.
And, of course, later, morning papers well before they hit your front porch.
We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It's fair to say this came as a surprise, and a pleasure one, at that. This year's Nobel Peace Prize went to a woman and, for the first time ever, a Muslim woman. This was big news, as we say, except in the winner's home country.
Here's CNN's Christiane Amanpour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Congratulations. Fantastic.
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shirin Ebadi, lawyer and human rights activist, was a long shot for the prestigious Nobel Peace Prize. Indeed, few outside Iran may have ever heard of the woman who beat out even the pope and former Czech President Vaclav Havel.
SHIRIN EBADI, NOBEL PEACE PRIZE WINNER (through translator): The beauty of life is that a person fights against the difficulties. If I was working in a country that there was freedom and democracy and I did not face any difficulties, and in that environment, I fought for the rights of women, I would not be so proud as I am today.
AMANPOUR: She herself has been imprisoned several times for her outspoken work, including for investigating the attack on students after demonstrations at Tehran University in 1999. The Nobel Committee paid this tribute as it announced her win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She has spoken out clearly and strongly in her country, Iran, and far beyond its borders. She has stood up as a sound professional, a courageous person, and has never heeded the threats to her own safety. AMANPOUR: For its part, Iran seemed to be caught off guard by the award. At first, officials representing the reformist government of President Khatami warmly congratulated her. But later, an official Iranian staple was read on state television simply noting her win and saying that it recognized outstanding work.
At her press conference, her head uncovered, something she would be unable to do in Iran, Ebadi made reference to the tension between reformers and powerful hard-liners and appealed for unity on behalf of human rights in her country.
EBADI (through translator): If we do the right interpretation of Islam, we can totally be pro-human rights. Therefore, the religious people should actually welcome this award and should support the Nobel Peace Prize.
AMANPOUR: While many inside and outside Iran wonder whether this prize will spur on democracy and reform there, Ebadi herself is more cautious, saying that she will wait to see whether the Iranian government will support her return and continued work.
Christiane Amanpour, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: All right, what better way to end a long week than morning papers. Don't answer. I'm sure you can think of several things, but that's the way we're going to end it.
And we'll start with "The Oregonian," the newspaper of Portland, Oregon, the winner of the Pulitzer Prize. And they actually won it, unlike some people who claim to, the 2001 Pulitzer Prize for Public Service. They lead with the vice president on Iraq. "Cheney Rips Critics." But a couple interesting local stories, I found. UP here, "September Job Count Gives Hope to Oregon." Good news, that. Down at the bottom, "Oregon Food Bank Use Climbs 10 Percent in Year." Kind of the yin and yang of it all, huh?
"The Dallas Morning News." A nice local story and it's an interesting story for all of us. "Twin Surgery Set Today." Surgery is going to be done in Dallas to separate two -- obviously two -- co- joined youngsters, 2-year-olds. It will go on in a Dallas hospital. And we wish them nothing but good to come their way. The Nobel Prize finds its way on many front pages, including "The Dallas Morning News."
Only one minute left.
Rush Limbaugh on most front pages. "Rush: 'I'm Addicted.' Talk Show Host to Check into Drug Rehab." Honestly, you want to know the truth about this from me? I feel terrible for the guy. I think it's a horrible thing to have to come out and admit to that and deal with it. And it's not easy to deal with it in any circumstance. To be a public person and have to deal with it is pretty bad. So we wish him, honestly, nothing but good luck.
"Remember Dan Snyder" also on the front page. This is a hockey player who died in a terrible car accident driven by one of his -- car driven by one of his teammates, who now faces very serious charges also. I bet we're running low on time.
"Boston Herald." "Ready Some Bronx Bustin'. Pedro and the Sox Aim to Lasso Clemens" -- lasso -- lasso Clemens -- "and Yanks in ALCS Showdown." That's tomorrow.
And let's end it with "The Chicago Sun-Times." "Ex-Prof Indicted in Hamas Probe." Here, Limbaugh on the front page, too. "Limbaugh Admits Painkiller Addiction." The weather tomorrow is "fish boil," as in Marlins. For those of you not paying close attention, the Cubs are playing the Marlins.
I'm on assignment most of next week. I'll be here Tuesday. But I hope you'll be here all week. Why not? We'll see you then.
Good night.
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