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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Selenski Behind Bars; Sniper Trial Begins; Bush Takes on Critics
Aired October 13, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening to you. I'm Anderson Cooper. Aaron Brown is off tonight.
No doubt you are all familiar with the phrase fog of war, the obvious definition of which is that it's difficult to tell just what the truth is in the middle of a battle.
But it seems the situation in Iraq may call for a new term, the fog of peace or the fog of the time after the end of major combat operations. While it is true that Iraq continues to be a very violent place where Americans continue to die, it is also true that in other respects things are improving, hard to tell which is more true.
The Bush administration believes Americans are getting a picture skewed by the violence and has embarked on a campaign to take its case to the public. It is too early to tell if that will clear the fog or not. We go to that in a second.
But first, a developing story from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, Deborah Feyerick is there with the headline.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, an escaped prisoner surrenders to police 72 hours after a daring prison break.
COOPER: More on that in a moment.
In Virginia Beach the big story is the first sniper trial which is about to begin, Jeanne Meserve with the headline -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, since the sniper shootings a year ago there has been a wave of publicity about the case. The question as the trial of sniper suspect John Muhammad begins is how hard it will be to seat a fair and unbiased jury.
COOPER: We go now to the continuing push to sell the Iraq plan even while questions are being raised about just what the plan is. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House with the headline -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this weekend Republicans and Democrats called on President Bush to take charge of his post-war strategy, to exhibit leadership, in the words of one to be presidential. Today, President Bush took on his critics.
COOPER: We'll hear a lot about that tonight.
And, on to the Pentagon and questions about an orchestrated letter writing campaign. Jamie McIntyre has the headline -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the Pentagon denies it was any sort of orchestrated PR campaign but it looked awfully suspicious when letters to the editor, purportedly from different soldiers in Iraq all turned out to be exactly the same.
COOPER: It is a fascinating tale, Jamie back to you short, back to all of you.
Also ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, are the competitive fires burning too brightly between the Yankees and Red Sox as they try to play baseball without a brawl breaking out?
And later, a challenge to America's domination of space as the Chinese prepare to launch their first manned spacecraft, all that ahead in the hour.
We start things off with a story unfolding tonight in northeastern Pennsylvania. The suspected killer, suspected serial killer, who escaped from jail is back in jail and a lot of people in the area are breathing again.
Back to CNN's Deborah Feyerick for the latest -- Deborah.
FEYERICK: Well, Anderson, Hugo Selenski surrendered to police at about 8:45 this evening. This was 72 hours after he shimmied down seven floors of the maximum security facility where he was being housed. He is now in police custody.
Acting on a tip, police troopers went to his home at about five o'clock this evening. They knocked on the door. His girlfriend was there. She would not let the police into her and his house as she had in the past. Police got suspicious.
About a couple of hours later they did get a call from Selenski's lawyer. He said that his client was ready to surrender and they asked for the head of the crime unit here at the troopers' office. He showed up at about 8:40. Five minutes later, Hugo Selenski was back in custody.
The house he was arrested at was the same house where police discovered the human remains of at least five people. Three -- or two of those people actually their bodies burned and the remains stuffed inside garbage bags.
But now he is in custody. We are awaiting a press conference. We are told that he is now being taken to be arraigned at a district court here. Of course he will be arraigned on escaping from prison.
The whole prison system here right now under enormous review. They have called in engineers. They have called in experts. They are trying to see exactly what went wrong and they're trying to fix it. They're also patrolling the prison very heavily. They are checking on cells every couple of hours making sure that the windows are intact.
This is a man who actually pulled out a window and as he did that he was able to then toss down 12 bed sheets and scale down the side of that prison facility, some 60, 70 feet. A cellmate who was with him also trying to escape, he actually fell and was badly injured.
Now we go to the press conference -- Anderson.
(BREAKING NEWS)
Myself, I'm Trooper Thomas Kelly (ph) of the Pennsylvania State Police, Troop P, Wyoming. Over here to my right is Courtney Staley (ph). He's with the Luzerne County Sheriff's Department task force and immediately behind me is Captain Carmen Altavilla (ph). He's the Troop P commanding officer of the Pennsylvania State Police.
Directly behind me is Joe Carmody (ph). He's with the district attorney's office. Behind me is Dave Lupas, Luzerne County District Attorney; Lieutenant Frank Hack (ph) and he's the crime unit supervisor here at Troop P Wyoming; Gary Capitano (ph), Luzerne County detective; Joe Giovannini (ph), Luzerne County District Attorney's Office; Marty Payne (ph) with the Federal Marshal's Service; and Trooper Jerry Sackney (ph), Pennsylvania State Police criminal investigator.
I'll turn it over to Dave Lupas.
DAVE LUPAS, LUZERNE COUNTY D.A.: Thank you all for coming. I'm very pleased and happy to report that at 8:47 p.m. Hugo Selenski was back in custody of law enforcement. Members of the Pennsylvania State Police had him in custody after he turned himself in at that time.
I think it's appropriate at this point in time that we acknowledge and thank each and every member of law enforcement for their hard work and dedication in bringing about a good result from what was a very unfortunate incident that happened a few days ago.
I want to state emphatically that I believe it was the non-stop persistence and hard work and the pressure that was put out in the public by all of these members of law enforcement which caused Mr. Selenski to turn himself in.
I believe it's appropriate that we acknowledge some of the agencies that participated in this manhunt, namely the Pennsylvania State Police, detectives from the Luzerne County District Attorney's Office, the Luzerne County Sheriff's Department, the United States Marshals, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the Kingston Township Police. Wilkes Barre Police Department supplied significant manpower and resources as well as all of our local, state, and federal authorities.
Again, as I stated earlier, we had a very unfortunate incident occur last Friday but I'm very proud and happy to report to you, as I predicted earlier when I stated that it was a matter of time, whether it took a day or a week or a month that law enforcement would not stop until Mr. Selenski was back in custody and back behind bars where he belongs and I'm very happy that that now has occurred.
To my right is Captain Carmen Altavilla. At this point I turn it over to him if he has any remarks he'd like to make and obviously we'll answer questions as well.
CAPT. CARMEN ALTAVILLA, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: I'm not going to belabor what Dave already said other than as Dave had mentioned this has been non-stop since Friday night when the call originally came in to as we stand right here. I mean there's been literally thousands of man hours, untold number of personnel from all the agencies and operating first out of the EMA Building and then shortly thereafter out of the barracks here at Wyoming.
This has been a non-stop effort and I just want to sincerely acknowledge not only all the members that participated but the media because it was you guys who kept this profile in the news. Just in watching the news today, the national news, the local news, every time you flicked on the TV set you got a picture of Hugo Selenski. That's what we needed to see.
That was a very integral part of getting Hugo Selenski to turn himself in so I thank you. Law enforcement thanks you and we'll now take any questions that you may have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where he was over the last 72 hours?
COOPER: You've been listening to a live press conference going on right now in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania. The headline of it all, Hugo Selenski, a man who has been -- who escaped from a jail on Friday by tying a number of bed sheets together, prying open a window, a man who escaped, who has been hunted by law enforcement every since that Friday daring escape is now in custody, has been recaptured, will face additional charges.
He's already been charged with at least two counts of murder. Five bodies were found, three of them charred, in his backyard. He's been charged with two of those killings so far. He will also now, of course, face charges related to his escape as well as some robbery charges which he was in jail for in the first place.
Let's move on right now to other business starting with the Washington, D.C. sniper case. Jury selection begins tomorrow in the trial of John Allen Muhammad, the older of the two suspects. Jurors will be asked to decide on his guilt or innocence and, if guilty, whether to impose the death penalty.
For more on how his lawyers plan to argue the case, here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): The evidence against John Muhammad and Lee Malvo is so overwhelming many experts say the defense strategies will center on keeping them alive.
JOSEPH DIGENOVA, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I don't think there's any question. I think they're going to be convicted. The real question for the defense is can they avoid the death penalty? MESERVE: The sniper shootings affected so many people and made so many headlines that the Muhammad trial was moved from Prince William County, Virginia, the jurisdiction where Dean Harold Myers (ph) was shot, to Virginia Beach 200 miles to the south.
TODD SANDERS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: The question of going from Prince William to Virginia Beach you would think that it would have to be better for the defense. Prince William County is the leading county in the state for the imposition of the death penalty.
MESERVE: Not that jurors in Virginia Beach won't be familiar with the case.
MARVIN MILLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is not something where a jury sits down in the jury box with a clean slate, listens to only the admissible evidence and then makes a decision. That's not this case.
MESERVE: A recent book by former Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose has become a best seller and led to a flurry of national television appearances.
CHARLES MOOSE, FORMER MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: Not your normal crime spree.
MESERVE: Another book by reporters for the "Washington Post" contains so much inside information defense attorneys tried unsuccessfully to get the case dismissed.
JONATHAN SHAPIRO, MUHAMMAD'S ATTORNEY: It's almost as though they're saying we all know he's guilty. We don't need to bother with the trial. Let's just go ahead and execute the man.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Anticipating that seating a fair and unbiased jury could be very, very tough, 140 people have been summoned to this courthouse tomorrow for possible selection and that may be just the first wave in a process that is expected to last all week -- Anderson.
COOPER: Is there any talk about how long the actual trial, once it does begin, might last?
MESERVE: Well there has been talk about a six week trial. If that, in fact, takes place it will overlap with the second sniper trial that of Lee Malvo. That's slated to begin November 11th in nearby Chesapeake, Virginia.
COOPER: All right, Jeanne Meserve, thanks very much.
Well to the White House next. After a weekend of less than flattering reports and disarray on Iraq, after another day of stepped up violence and casualties in Iraqi a bombing on Sunday, three soldiers killed since then, the latest today in Tikrit.
President Bush today got a little good news in the polls. He also spent another day doing what he can to see that a more positive picture of the war gets through to the public.
Here again, CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush began week two of his public relations campaign invoking the memories of 9/11 in his Columbus Day speech.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are willing to sacrifice for the country they love. They remember the lessons of September the 11th, 2001 and so do I. It's something we should never forget.
MALVEAUX: And the White House is making sure of that. Mr. Bush's campaign to defend Iraq policy enters a critical week with Secretary Powell making one more push for a U.N. Security Council resolution aimed at attracting international support and Congress about to take up Mr. Bush's $87 billion request for post-war funding.
Today Mr. Bush sat down with regional TV reporters to deliver his good news message about Iraq.
BUSH: Progress is being made and the Iraqi people are beginning to prosper and electricity if up and running and millions or thousands of children have been immunized. Hospitals are open. Schools are functioning. Their society is beginning to develop.
MALVEAUX: But policy analysts say the president needs to be more candid.
JIM STEINBERG, FMR. CLINTON DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think we're getting the same problem from the administration, which is it wants to hear more about the good news but it's really not prepared to face up to being more candid about the bad news and the difficulties that we're facing.
MALVEAUX: But a new CNN/USA Today Gallup polls shows that the president's approval rating is climbing. In late September, Mr. Bush's approval rating was at 50 percent, the lowest level since the beginning of his presidency. Now it has shot back up to 56 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now at one of his interviews, Mr. Bush shot back at his critics who said he had no post-war strategy and that he should take charge. Mr. Bush saying, and I'm quoting here: "They're just plain wrong about our strategy. We've had a strategy from the beginning. Jerry Bremer is running the strategy and we're making very good progress about the establishment of a free Iraq." Then he goes on to say: "And the person who is in charge is me" -- Anderson.
COOPER: Suzanne, you talk about this PR campaign. A lot of people have been talking about this PR campaign the administration is said to be undertaking. He talked to regional media outlets today. Where does it go from here? How long does this campaign last for?
MALVEAUX: Well, this campaign lasts as long as it takes really to convince the American people that this is the right way to go. One thing that was interesting is the fact that he bypassed what he calls the national media filter, that being us, got some fresh perspective, some fresh reporters, seeing also that he is more successful one-on- one as well as in front of friendly audiences.
You've seen the last couple of weeks traveling before military crowds. We expect that on Wednesday he's going to be traveling to California before a friendly crowd as well. The whole idea is to get him out in a venue where he performs strong, that is in front of audiences that are friendly, that are supportive and at the same time make his pitch, make his case, the campaign that this is working.
COOPER: All right, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thanks very much.
On now to the letters home, running in a number of smaller local papers around the country. They speak of the accomplishments in northern Iraq in language that the mother of one soldier says just didn't quite sound like her son.
Well, she was right. He signed the letter but someone else wrote it. The same goes for his buddies. Most say they agree with the sentiment even if the words weren't exactly their own. More now from CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Soldiers of the 2nd Battalion of the 503rd Airborne Infantry Regiment parachuted into Iraq back in March and last month members of the unit, now based in the relatively peaceful northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk apparently began sending neatly typed letters to hometown newspapers highlighting progress in Iraq.
"The majority of the city has welcomed our presence with open arms. Children smile and run up to shake hands" read one.
That letter went to a Washington State newspaper "The Olympian," but when the editorial page editor got a second matching letter, signed by a different soldier, his suspicions were raised.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of days later he got another letter, the second one of the two, and remembered the first one, went back and compared then and they were identical except for the signatures."
MCINTYRE: "The Olympian" exposed the form letter flap after passing the letters to the Gannett news service, which discovered the same letter published in 11 different U.S. newspapers.
The Pentagon denies it orchestrated the letter writing scheme, a spokesman telling CNN: "I am unaware of any particular campaign" but the spokesman didn't deny there is widespread frustration from the defense secretary on down that the news coverage doesn't focus on the success stories in Iraq. DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What gets carried is the bad news. What gets carried is something that's harmful or unhelpful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Soldiers contacted by the Gannett news service admitted they didn't write the letters. In fact, one said he didn't even sign the letters but they all said they agreed with what the letters said or they wouldn't have passed it on to their families back home.
The Pentagon believes that this whole letter, form letter writing episode was begun by someone in the unit and they insist it wasn't anything orchestrated by the Pentagon -- Anderson.
COOPER: So, Jamie, they're saying it was basically something that originated with this unit in Iraq, perhaps, I suppose a commanding officer or something rather than something out of Washington or the Pentagon?
MCINTYRE: Right. They're saying that the letter was composed apparently in the unit and distributed to soldiers who were told that they should send it home or send it to a newspaper if they agreed with it and they insist there wasn't any coercion involved. And, as we said, the soldiers who were contacted, who admitted they didn't write it, still said they agreed with it.
COOPER: And there are 11 letters that are known about at this time. I suppose tomorrow, you know, by tomorrow once the story gets more widely known more could come up but are they all from the same unit?
MCINTYRE: Yes. They're all from the same unit which is in northern Iraq which, you know, actually is more peaceful and not having the same trouble they're having in the so-called Sunni Triangle area between Baghdad, Tikrit, and Fallujah.
COOPER: All right, it's an interesting story. Jamie McIntyre thanks very much at the Pentagon tonight.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, who's the boss? Is the Bush administration speaking with more than one voice when it comes to Iraq?
And later, the new space race, will it begin with a Chinese effort to put a man in space?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, more now on the perception or perhaps the reality of disarray in the administration where Iraq is concerned. When the president was asked about it today he replied the person in charge is me, this after a key Republican Senator Dick Lugar implied over the weekend that he wasn't. The president, he said, has to be the president.
With us now to talk about it is Gideon Rose, managing editor of "Foreign Affairs" magazine. Thanks very much for being with us Gideon.
GIDEON ROSE,MANAGING EDITOR, "FOREIGN AFFAIRS" MAGAZINE: Thank you.
COOPER: To the extent there is a split, a fissure in the administration on Iraq, what are the sides, where does it fall?
ROSE: Basically it's the vice president's office and the civilian leadership of the Defense Department on one hand and the State Department, the CIA, some of the armed services and to a certain extent the NSC on the other side.
COOPER: And who's driving that other side? Is it Colin Powell at the State Department or is it more political decisions?
ROSE: Well, I don't think it's Colin Powell because he hasn't had much influence in the administration quite frankly for a long time so it's probably a combination of the political office and a general sense maybe in the NSC and with Condoleezza Rice that things aren't going as well as they should be.
COOPER: And the DOD is getting the blame for that within the administration you're saying?
ROSE: Well, this is the problem. They basically demanded that they get full control over Iraq policy, both before the war, during it, and after it, and now they're stuck with the results.
COOPER: Where does it go from here? I mean there is this campaign now, this concerted campaign it seems by the administration to sort of get out a positive message on Iraq.
ROSE: Well, that's really PR, which isn't going to do much to change the basic situation. If things turn around on the ground over there, if Saddam Hussein is found, if the attacks basically stop and if Iraq is seen to be moving forward then they can get away with not changing policy.
But I think that's unlikely and if things continue to go badly then basically the policy is going to have to change and the people who are running the policy up to this point are basically going to have to be pushed aside.
COOPER: How significant is it that on Sunday Dick Lugar came out and said what he said about the president? I mean Dick Lugar, I guess you could argue, has been on the outs of this administration for quite some time.
ROSE: I think it's more the fact that he said it rather than his being a spokesman because he hasn't been somebody who has been a big backer or a close confidante of this administration.
COOPER: But important that he said it because he's a Republican and what it allows others to come forward?
ROSE: Well, it's a sign that essentially players in Washington are emboldened to speak out against a White House that's somewhat weakened.
COOPER: And, if Saddam Hussein is captured, I mean you said that would be a positive step, obviously, but would all this sort of dissipate, would all of it go away?
ROSE: We just don't know. It would diminish at least somewhat but at this point it's beyond that. The killing of Qusay and Uday, Saddam's sons, was a help but it didn't stop things and so it would help matters but it wouldn't end the problem.
COOPER: Where do you see President Bush in all this? I mean if there is this fissure, this split, how is he playing it?
ROSE: Well, this is a actually a big question and very few people outside the inner circles of the administration actually know. Basically the president for all his comments today doesn't necessarily seem to be leading with a strong hand and if that doesn't change the administration's policy won't bend. It will ultimately break.
COOPER: Does this new system, this Iraq stabilization group, Condy Rice being in charge of it, does it make sense?
ROSE: Well, it would make sense because that's the way the government is supposed to operate. The NSC is supposed to coordinate the cabinet departments on behalf of the president. It hasn't operated that way for the last couple of years because Rice hasn't been as strong a player as Rumsfeld or Powell and especially as Dick Cheney.
COOPER: So, how does creating this other body fix the system that was supposed to work that way to begin with?
ROSE: It's less as a bureaucratic or institutional fix that it's important than as a signal that perhaps the president realizes that he needs to basically get his barons on the same playing (unintelligible).
COOPER: Interesting. Gideon Rose it was good to meet you.
ROSE: Thank you.
COOPER: Thanks very much.
Well, some other stories from around the world before we take a break. First stop the Middle East and the chaos over who's running the Palestinian government.
Yasser Arafat today appointed an acting security chief, another slap at Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei who has already threatened to resign a number of times because of disputes with Mr. Arafat. This weekend he said when a new government is formed three weeks from now, he will not be part of it.
London next and the beginning of not a normal life but a better one for the Iraqi boy who became such a powerful symbol of what wars can do, even the best of them. Ali Abbas (ph) lost his arms but by some miracle survived.
He was taken to London where today a local newspaper reports he has been successfully fitted with artificial limbs. "I'm all here now" he said "my arms feel good. Now I want to hug my sisters and the rest of my family" and now he can.
Finally to Dallas where doctors say two conjoined twins from Egypt are doing incredibly well after a day and a half of surgery to separate them. They were joined at the head. There's still certainly a long way and many more operations to go but doctors today said they were very pleased with the outcome thus far. The boys' father fainted when he got the good news.
And still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, soldiers speaking out or are they? What's behind the letter writing campaign about Iraq?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: A bit more now on the form letters home, if you will, what our guest tonight calls astro turf organizing, Astroturf. We learned from Jamie McIntyre at the top tonight that this time around it came not from a PR firm in Washington but from a CO in Kirkuk, at least that's what the Pentagon is saying. That said, neither the idea nor the practice of ginning up a grassroots campaign is all that rare these days, which is probably why a lot of alarm bells went off today.
With us in Washington tonight is Josh Marshall, contributing writer for "Washington Monthly" and the web log writer, the blogger of talkingpointsmemo.com. Welcome, thanks for being with us Josh.
JOSHUA MICAH MARSHALL, TALKINGPOINTSMEMO.COM: Thanks for having me.
COOPER: When you first heard about these letters what did you think? Did you think this is some sort of Astroturf campaign?
MARSHALL: You know it's hard to say. It wasn't clear when we first heard about it whether it was just a few soldiers who got together and, you know, came up with a letter and all sent it out under the names. Now, it seems like it went a little higher. * COOPER: ...about these letters. What do you think? Do you think this is some sort of Astroturf campaign?
MARSHALL: You know it's hard to say. It wasn't clear when we first heard about it whether it was just a few soldiers who got together and, you know, came up with a letter and all sent it out under their name.
Now it seems like it went a little higher up the food chain. I guess it's possible that it goes still higher up to the Pentagon but, as you said in your intro, it looked a lot like something that a lot of people in Washington are pretty familiar with, again this term Astroturf or organizing which is basically trying to gin up the appearance of some sort of groundswell of support for one cause or another. I mean in this case making the argument that the occupation, the reconstruction of Iraq is going better than it seems to many here in the U.S. So, I mean again the M.O. seemed like something a lot of people were pretty familiar with.
COOPER: Well, everyone is familiar with grassroots lobbying obviously, Astroturf lobbying is a spin off of that meaning it's faked basically. How do you go about creating the Astroturf? I mean how do you fake it?
MARSHALL: Well, it's a complex science. It's everything from, you know, bogus letters to the editor, op-eds by people who maybe are, you know, real people and even have expertise but they're sort of pale moving around sort of like, you know, from radio pale back in the '50s or whatever.
COOPER: So, some lobbying firm writes an op-ed piece or writes a letter to the editor and then has some regular citizen sign it?
MARSHALL: Basically, yes. I mean the industry as it were got started with the tobacco companies a couple decades ago and obviously the tobacco companies for years have been facing more and more regulation, more and more, you know, just they're not particularly popular.
And, if you're the tobacco companies you don't want to kind of hit that political fight just being the, you know, the big evil tobacco companies. You want to have at least the appearance that there's some groundswell of public support for you or, you know, smokers' rights and stuff like that.
So, they basically created a cadre of people who would go out and sort of fake the appearance of a groundswell of support. That's where the skills were honed, as it were, and then more recently a lot of these people went into PR firms. You know they're political consultants and so forth.
And it's everything under the sun from, you know, sort of Web sites that are created that are made to look like they're sort of, you know, kind of homegrown Web sites but they're actually kind of, you know, ones designed by a PR firm and make to look a little clunkier, something like that. And, again, op-eds, letters to the editor, (unintelligible) everything under the sun.
COOPER: So, I suppose the web has made a lot of this easier? I mean it allows a group of lobbyists or whomever to create, as you said, these phony Web sites. They'll look like it's, you know, just a fan site or a personal interest site.
MARSHALL: Easier and harder. I think that, again, we don't know precisely what happened with these letters from soldiers in Iraq but if you look at how, I mean this whole thing got started I think you showed earlier in the show that there was a newspaper, a small town newspaper in Washington State that got two of the same letters and then they obviously knew there was a problem and then they sort of started investigating. If you think of it before there was the Internet you could have the same letter appearing in a couple hundred hometown newspapers and there would just never be any way for anybody to kind of put it all together. So, I think the Internet does create these new avenues for what many people would consider mischief but it also makes it easier to discover (unintelligible).
COOPER: To discover it, yes. When you hear about political campaigns or political candidates who have very strong grassroots movement do you suspect, wait a minute, maybe this is sort of an Astroturf movement?
MARSHALL: You know you -- as you follow political campaigns and even more single issue campaigns it tends to be more in single issue campaigns than in, you know, campaigns of individual candidates, you can kind of, there are certain signs you look for that you can see.
And frankly nowadays the lines get a little blurred because some things that, you know, there is some kind of commingling of things that are sort of genuine grassroots and innovations coming over from the Astroturf side that they mix together.
COOPER: You talk about some signs you look for. Is there anything particularly that you can name to figure out whether something is sort of Astroturf campaign or actual grassroots lobby?
MARSHALL: You know a lot of times you look at groups that come up, you know, citizens for X, citizens for Y. You look at those and sometimes you can tell these aren't, these really aren't genuine citizens' groups. These are, you know, there's something fishy going on.
Other things in a lot of campaigns at least there's often push- pulling which is a way to kind of, you know, kind of get messages out there, kind of under the radar. A lot of signs, if I were more on my toes I'd come up (unintelligible).
COOPER: No, I put you on the spot and you did just good. Josh Marshall thanks very much. It was really interesting, appreciate you coming in.
MARSHALL: Thanks for having me.
COOPER: All right.
Well still to come on NEWSNIGHT, they went to the baseball game and a boxing match broke out. The Yankees and the Red Sox try to put the non-baseball competition behind them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the headlines today on Slate's homepage reads "Who will God smite this time," meaning the formerly (unintelligible) Cubs of Chicago or the ever choking Sox rouge of Boston.
Given the grudge match going on between the Red Sox and Yankees, though, the headline writers might want to focus on the playoffs first and stick a little closer on the worldly realm.
What would Pedro smiting Don, the league smiting both, and the Nielson numbers showing baseball fans totally smitten by it all. The Yanks and Sox went at it again tonight with memories of the weekend still very fresh.
Here's CNN's Josie Burke.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Red Sox-Yankees series was supposed to showcase the best that baseball has to offer, two bitter rivals fueled by intense emotion and a deep appreciation for the game's history. Then came this pitch.
JOE TORRE, YANKEE'S MANAGER: I know there's no question in my mind that Pedro hit him on purpose.
BURKE: Red Sox pitcher Pedro Martinez denies that but there's no denying the pitch set off an ugly chain of events starting with Manny Ramirez taking exception to this Roger Clemens fast ball.
ROGER CLEMENS, YANKEE'S PITCHER: It was just a fast ball. I was trying to strike him out inside. It wasn't near him and then he started walking toward me, starting mouthing me and, you know, I'm going to have none of that.
BURKE: In the ensuing melee Yankee's coach Don Zimmer charged Martinez who threw the 72-year-old to the ground. What could be worse for baseball than that sight? How about a ninth inning brawl in the bullpen involving two Yankees players and a Red Sox employee?
LARRY LUCCHINO, RED SOX PRESIDENT: I don't see this as the beginning of some serial misconduct on the playing field. On the contrary, I think this episode happened. It happened for all the obvious reasons of intensity and emotion and post season importance, but the players will move on.
BURKE: Boston Police are investigating the incident and could file charges against the two Yankees, Jeff Nelson and Karim (ph) Garcia. Security in the bullpen has been increased along with the tension level in the series.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the series began everyone knew it was going to be quite a battle. It was going to be very emotional, a lot of intensity, but I think we've upgraded it from a battle to a war.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURKE: There had been some concern that there would be a carryover effect from game three heading into game four but so far we've seen absolutely no evidence of that. It's actually been a remarkably well played game and both teams have been remarkably well behaved. Even earlier in the game there was a hit batter but it was clear that it was just a pitch that got away from Red Sox knuckle-baller Tim Wakefield and we can honestly say the ugliest incident occurred before the game when the crowd booed national anthem singer Michael Bolton ruthlessly -- Anderson.
COOPER: I'm not even going to question why that happened. These kind of brawls, I mean is it bad for baseball or does it bring more viewers? Does it bring a new audience to the sport?
BURKE: Well there's certainly a camp that would say that any publicity is going to be good whether it's bad or good but people involved with baseball will tell you that this is not something that they wanted to see happen.
With a national spotlight shining on these two teams the way they detracted viewers with all of the history they were hoping that it would be people looking at the series because it was so well played and not for the reasons of hey is the steel cage match going to break out next -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Josie Burke thanks very much, appreciate it.
A few more items now from around the country starting with politics. After months of campaigning Congressman Dennis Kucinich made it official today. He is running for president. He's on the leftish side of the Democratic Party. He wants to get out of Iraq immediately and says if he's elected he'll set up a cabinet level department of peace.
Louisiana next where a church bus hit a truck hauling cotton. It happened late this morning on Interstate 20 in the northeastern part of the state. Fifteen people were on the bus, most of them seniors. Eight people died. The driver told investigators he might have fallen asleep at the wheel.
Jockey Bill Shoemaker has died. He lived more than seven decades, longer than doctors expected. When he was born he weighed just two pounds. His mother kept him in a shoe box by the fireplace for the first few weeks of his life. He would grow to all of 4'11" and 95 pounds but go on to a career that included nearly 9,000 victories, four of them at the Kentucky Derby. Bill Shoemaker was 72.
And Joan Kroc has lost her battle with cancer. She was 75. The wife of McDonald's founder Ray Kroc, she was the company's biggest shareholder and will be remembered primarily for her work with charities.
And coming up ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the trials and tribulations of becoming a lawyer in New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, if you wanted us to describe it as something like "Sex in the City" meets "Paper Chase" so we will. Lawyer and author Alex Wellen who has been seen frequently on this program focusing on the issues of cyber crime has just published "Barman" which we'd like to describe as the mix between "Sex in the City" and "The Paper Chase."
Alex joins us here in New York. Thanks for being with us.
ALEX WELLEN, AUTHOR, "BARMAN": Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me.
COOPER: It's a book about lawyers. People hate lawyers.
WELLEN: That's right.
COOPER: And they hate journalists, you're both actually.
WELLEN: That's right so have I devolved maybe from the lawyer to a journalist? Yes, and there's like 1.2 million attorneys. There's 90,000 people applying to law school. Everyone wants to be a lawyer especially when it comes to the economy.
COOPER: Now you sort of decided to be a lawyer based on ping pong.
WELLEN: Right. Right.
COOPER: You brought it.
WELLEN: I brought it for you because I figured you would appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK)
WELLEN: No, that's good. It's upside down.
COOPER: Oh wait, it's like this?
WELLEN: No, no you were right. Put this part there, yes, all right.
COOPER: So this is some sort of a ping pong paddle.
WELLEN: Right that's where the ping pong reference is is in "Barman" but I was an engineer and I had a broken ping pong paddle and I put this together because I needed a paddle on the other side.
COOPER: You made a better paddle.
WELLEN: I made a better paddle and I said I would patent it so I went to a patent attorney and he told me that it was crap so then I said I would just take the easy route and I would just go to law school and become a patent attorney and then patent it.
COOPER: Right and you did.
WELLEN: I did. This is actually the patent that's right and then I wrote about it so there's capitalism.
COOPER: Have you ever actually marketed this?
WELLEN: No. You're doing it right now.
COOPER: (Unintelligible) a little infomercial but that basically...
WELLEN: No, that was -- yes, that was...
COOPER: What surprised you most about becoming a lawyer?
WELLEN: You know there was a lot of drudgery. I did want to go into litigation but it was a lot more difficult as far as pushing through paper and running around the country and document review. It wasn't -- I mean obviously it's very sexy on TV as it's portrayed.
COOPER: Right.
WELLEN: But I didn't find that it was a creative enough place for me.
COOPER: Right.
WELLEN: But I met plenty of attorneys along the way (unintelligible).
COOPER: Every lawyer I know who I went to college with feels like they're destroying their lives and (unintelligible).
WELLEN: I know and I feel for them. You know what this book is for? This is for the people that we drive freaking crazy. You must know someone or dated someone that has a friend of a friend who's gone through the bar exam and this is a very like light look at what it's like to undergo that.
COOPER: Which you describe in sort of terms of a pregnancy, a gestation period.
WELLEN: Right. Well, I thought it was a metamorphoses. I thought from the moment you get -- that you graduate law school, right, to the moment that you're sworn in is nine months so that was a perfect nine-month period. That was your gestation. Law school was conception and then when you got your results it was birth and then there would be no forward. There'd just be foreplay.
COOPER: But it's interesting in reading your book the degree to which there's this tier system in law school.
WELLEN: Right.
COOPER: If you're in the first tier, if you go to Harvard, Princeton, I don't know who else, Yale.
WELLEN: Yes, you know, and people may interpret it as sour grapes. Here's the point is that "U.S. News and World" to some extent has done a disservice to people.
COOPER: The magazine does a yearly ranking on law schools.
WELLEN: Exactly. They do a ranking system of law schools, of all school but for law schools you're relegated to a category and it made -- perhaps it's my issue in this book and I'm willing to admit that openly but Temple, which was a remarkable school just didn't work in the tier system as well. They were tier two which was fine but there was tier three and tier four.
COOPER: What does that matter what tier you are because it determines where you get to work after college, after graduation?
WELLEN: I think it opens certain doors. It was definitely a little bit more difficult but, you know, now a lot of employers are willing to look beyond the "U.S. News and World" because there's so many problems with it. Forty percent of it is based on reputation.
COOPER: Right.
WELLEN: So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
COOPER: How do you determine that?
WELLEN: Exactly so you go to all these law schools and these deans are rating themselves and they're rating their neighbors and they're rating someone across the country.
So, it is this self-fulfilling prophecy. Temple admitted people for all kinds of different reasons, these remarkable candidates and they had this very diverse and they still do student body.
COOPER: The book "The Paper Chase" has probably got a lot, a whole generation of people going to law school.
WELLEN: That's right.
COOPER: This is really you see it as sort of an updating on "The Paper Chase"?
WELLEN: Look, that's a classic. I don't want to pretend that I'm "The Paper Chase" but I will tell you that that was a huge influence on me but that was, and John J. Osborne's book "The Paper Chase" shaped the image of law school.
What I wanted to do if I could do it is look at the portion of law that no one has talked about undergoing this universal bar exam but also have just like a coming of age thing and do it in a contemporary way that doesn't have to do with Harvard because a lot of us didn't -- did you go to Harvard?
COOPER: Undergraduate went to Yale.
WELLEN: Well, then yes you Yalies hate the Harvards so that's great so we're friends.
COOPER: Yes, exactly. And yet you still recommend that everyone should go to law school. WELLEN: Yes, that's right so we can all sue each other. I figure that's what we would do all day long. No, I think that I always thought it was an empowering experience. I loved law and I just didn't like to practice too much so I encourage people.
COOPER: Empowering why because it trains your mind to think in a certain way?
WELLEN: There is that definitely. It trains your mind to do literally anything that you want to do but it also is empowering in that you understand your social system. Every single story that you did tonight, you know, a lawyer will look at it from a different point of view, has different things to contribute to it.
You're just thinking about things. It's an entire new language so for that reason I think it's important in the system that we live in to know the laws that we live and at least be able to find them.
COOPER: All right. The book is "Barman." Alex Wellen thanks for joining us.
WELLEN: Yes, it's nice to be here.
COOPER: It's nice to meet you.
WELLEN: Thanks.
COOPER: All right.
Well still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the new space race. The Chinese prepare to send man into space but who exactly is it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well those of you at a certain age will no doubt recall the early days of the first space race when Shepard, Garron (ph) and Glenn were household names. Well, now the Chinese are trying to join the list of space faring countries.
But in a media strategy that is more like the secrecy shrouded Soviet space program of the early 1960s we don't know exactly when this week the launch might happen or even which one of the three Ticonauts (ph), what the Chinese are calling their astronauts, will be asked to make the first ride into space.
Here's what we do know from CNN's Miles O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four decades after the Soviet Union and then the U.S. first sent men into space, China is poised to match the feat, join the elite club, and perhaps launch a new race in space.
JOAN JOHNSON-FREESE, NAVAL WAR COLLEGE: It could be a Sputnik shock all over again or it could be the American public beginning to question whether or not the U.S., whether deliberately or not, has begun to cede its leadership in manned space.
O'BRIEN: Western observers are convinced the Chinese flight is much more than a one-off stunt. They first began their efforts to send humans into space 11 years ago, have flown four unmanned test flights, and if all goes well on their early manned missions plan to launch a space station of their own and within 15 year establish a permanent outpost on the moon, lofty goals indeed.
BOB WALKER, SPACE ANALYST: It's a very aggressive program where they're putting lots of resources into it and they believe it's a part of their national destiny.
O'BRIEN: In a sense the Chinese began the space race, first investing rockets in the 13th Century using the so-called fire arrows to stave off invading Mongols.
And, according to Chinese legend, the first person with the right stuff was a 16th Century man named Juan Hu (ph). He supposedly strapped 47 rockets to a wicker chair, had 47 assistants light the fuses hoping to reach the moon. Not a trace of him was found.
Hundreds of years later the Chinese are clearly no longer in the space vanguard. They're flying a capsule that is little more than a knock-off of the Russian Soyuz designed in the '60s and their launch facility in the Gobi Desert looks strikingly similar to NASA's Kennedy Space Center but western experts don't doubt their desire or ability to quickly catch up.
CHARLES VICK, GLOBAL SECURITY: What seems to be 40 years behind in technology can really come up and fool you very quickly. Immediately it is not a direct threat that cannot be dealt with by our capabilities and certainly our military predominance in space.
O'BRIEN: Analysts say former Chinese Leader Zhang Zemin first authorized the manned program after witnessing the U.S. military prowess in the first Gulf War aided by space-based assets but the motivation runs deeper than that.
JOHNSON-FREESE: I am convinced the Chinese have observed or have read the playbook, if you will, for the U.S. Apollo experience and decided that they are pursuing a manned space activity for exactly the same reasons that we did and those reasons are many not a single reason.
O'BRIEN: It's about enhancing their international prestige, building national pride at home, advancing science and technology and creating jobs. No less than 270,000 are employed by the Chinese Space Program.
VICK: If the Chinese decide to take leadership in this area and decide to challenge us both commercially as well as perhaps strategically then the United States has to make a very, very clear decision about whether or not we are going to advance our space technology or whether or not we're going to rest on our laurels of the past. O'BRIEN: The Chinese know a little something about resting on their laurels. It's a lesson they learned in the 13th Century. It might be time for advocates of U.S. space prowess to brush up on some history.
Miles O'Brien, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And that is NEWSNIGHT for tonight. Thanks for watching. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'll be back with my own show "360" tomorrow night, 7:00 p.m. Eastern time. Aaron Brown will be back here tomorrow. Good night.
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Aired October 13, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening to you. I'm Anderson Cooper. Aaron Brown is off tonight.
No doubt you are all familiar with the phrase fog of war, the obvious definition of which is that it's difficult to tell just what the truth is in the middle of a battle.
But it seems the situation in Iraq may call for a new term, the fog of peace or the fog of the time after the end of major combat operations. While it is true that Iraq continues to be a very violent place where Americans continue to die, it is also true that in other respects things are improving, hard to tell which is more true.
The Bush administration believes Americans are getting a picture skewed by the violence and has embarked on a campaign to take its case to the public. It is too early to tell if that will clear the fog or not. We go to that in a second.
But first, a developing story from Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, Deborah Feyerick is there with the headline.
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, an escaped prisoner surrenders to police 72 hours after a daring prison break.
COOPER: More on that in a moment.
In Virginia Beach the big story is the first sniper trial which is about to begin, Jeanne Meserve with the headline -- Jeanne.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, since the sniper shootings a year ago there has been a wave of publicity about the case. The question as the trial of sniper suspect John Muhammad begins is how hard it will be to seat a fair and unbiased jury.
COOPER: We go now to the continuing push to sell the Iraq plan even while questions are being raised about just what the plan is. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House with the headline -- Suzanne.
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this weekend Republicans and Democrats called on President Bush to take charge of his post-war strategy, to exhibit leadership, in the words of one to be presidential. Today, President Bush took on his critics.
COOPER: We'll hear a lot about that tonight.
And, on to the Pentagon and questions about an orchestrated letter writing campaign. Jamie McIntyre has the headline -- Jamie.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Anderson, the Pentagon denies it was any sort of orchestrated PR campaign but it looked awfully suspicious when letters to the editor, purportedly from different soldiers in Iraq all turned out to be exactly the same.
COOPER: It is a fascinating tale, Jamie back to you short, back to all of you.
Also ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, are the competitive fires burning too brightly between the Yankees and Red Sox as they try to play baseball without a brawl breaking out?
And later, a challenge to America's domination of space as the Chinese prepare to launch their first manned spacecraft, all that ahead in the hour.
We start things off with a story unfolding tonight in northeastern Pennsylvania. The suspected killer, suspected serial killer, who escaped from jail is back in jail and a lot of people in the area are breathing again.
Back to CNN's Deborah Feyerick for the latest -- Deborah.
FEYERICK: Well, Anderson, Hugo Selenski surrendered to police at about 8:45 this evening. This was 72 hours after he shimmied down seven floors of the maximum security facility where he was being housed. He is now in police custody.
Acting on a tip, police troopers went to his home at about five o'clock this evening. They knocked on the door. His girlfriend was there. She would not let the police into her and his house as she had in the past. Police got suspicious.
About a couple of hours later they did get a call from Selenski's lawyer. He said that his client was ready to surrender and they asked for the head of the crime unit here at the troopers' office. He showed up at about 8:40. Five minutes later, Hugo Selenski was back in custody.
The house he was arrested at was the same house where police discovered the human remains of at least five people. Three -- or two of those people actually their bodies burned and the remains stuffed inside garbage bags.
But now he is in custody. We are awaiting a press conference. We are told that he is now being taken to be arraigned at a district court here. Of course he will be arraigned on escaping from prison.
The whole prison system here right now under enormous review. They have called in engineers. They have called in experts. They are trying to see exactly what went wrong and they're trying to fix it. They're also patrolling the prison very heavily. They are checking on cells every couple of hours making sure that the windows are intact.
This is a man who actually pulled out a window and as he did that he was able to then toss down 12 bed sheets and scale down the side of that prison facility, some 60, 70 feet. A cellmate who was with him also trying to escape, he actually fell and was badly injured.
Now we go to the press conference -- Anderson.
(BREAKING NEWS)
Myself, I'm Trooper Thomas Kelly (ph) of the Pennsylvania State Police, Troop P, Wyoming. Over here to my right is Courtney Staley (ph). He's with the Luzerne County Sheriff's Department task force and immediately behind me is Captain Carmen Altavilla (ph). He's the Troop P commanding officer of the Pennsylvania State Police.
Directly behind me is Joe Carmody (ph). He's with the district attorney's office. Behind me is Dave Lupas, Luzerne County District Attorney; Lieutenant Frank Hack (ph) and he's the crime unit supervisor here at Troop P Wyoming; Gary Capitano (ph), Luzerne County detective; Joe Giovannini (ph), Luzerne County District Attorney's Office; Marty Payne (ph) with the Federal Marshal's Service; and Trooper Jerry Sackney (ph), Pennsylvania State Police criminal investigator.
I'll turn it over to Dave Lupas.
DAVE LUPAS, LUZERNE COUNTY D.A.: Thank you all for coming. I'm very pleased and happy to report that at 8:47 p.m. Hugo Selenski was back in custody of law enforcement. Members of the Pennsylvania State Police had him in custody after he turned himself in at that time.
I think it's appropriate at this point in time that we acknowledge and thank each and every member of law enforcement for their hard work and dedication in bringing about a good result from what was a very unfortunate incident that happened a few days ago.
I want to state emphatically that I believe it was the non-stop persistence and hard work and the pressure that was put out in the public by all of these members of law enforcement which caused Mr. Selenski to turn himself in.
I believe it's appropriate that we acknowledge some of the agencies that participated in this manhunt, namely the Pennsylvania State Police, detectives from the Luzerne County District Attorney's Office, the Luzerne County Sheriff's Department, the United States Marshals, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the Kingston Township Police. Wilkes Barre Police Department supplied significant manpower and resources as well as all of our local, state, and federal authorities.
Again, as I stated earlier, we had a very unfortunate incident occur last Friday but I'm very proud and happy to report to you, as I predicted earlier when I stated that it was a matter of time, whether it took a day or a week or a month that law enforcement would not stop until Mr. Selenski was back in custody and back behind bars where he belongs and I'm very happy that that now has occurred.
To my right is Captain Carmen Altavilla. At this point I turn it over to him if he has any remarks he'd like to make and obviously we'll answer questions as well.
CAPT. CARMEN ALTAVILLA, PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE: I'm not going to belabor what Dave already said other than as Dave had mentioned this has been non-stop since Friday night when the call originally came in to as we stand right here. I mean there's been literally thousands of man hours, untold number of personnel from all the agencies and operating first out of the EMA Building and then shortly thereafter out of the barracks here at Wyoming.
This has been a non-stop effort and I just want to sincerely acknowledge not only all the members that participated but the media because it was you guys who kept this profile in the news. Just in watching the news today, the national news, the local news, every time you flicked on the TV set you got a picture of Hugo Selenski. That's what we needed to see.
That was a very integral part of getting Hugo Selenski to turn himself in so I thank you. Law enforcement thanks you and we'll now take any questions that you may have.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where he was over the last 72 hours?
COOPER: You've been listening to a live press conference going on right now in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania. The headline of it all, Hugo Selenski, a man who has been -- who escaped from a jail on Friday by tying a number of bed sheets together, prying open a window, a man who escaped, who has been hunted by law enforcement every since that Friday daring escape is now in custody, has been recaptured, will face additional charges.
He's already been charged with at least two counts of murder. Five bodies were found, three of them charred, in his backyard. He's been charged with two of those killings so far. He will also now, of course, face charges related to his escape as well as some robbery charges which he was in jail for in the first place.
Let's move on right now to other business starting with the Washington, D.C. sniper case. Jury selection begins tomorrow in the trial of John Allen Muhammad, the older of the two suspects. Jurors will be asked to decide on his guilt or innocence and, if guilty, whether to impose the death penalty.
For more on how his lawyers plan to argue the case, here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): The evidence against John Muhammad and Lee Malvo is so overwhelming many experts say the defense strategies will center on keeping them alive.
JOSEPH DIGENOVA, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: I don't think there's any question. I think they're going to be convicted. The real question for the defense is can they avoid the death penalty? MESERVE: The sniper shootings affected so many people and made so many headlines that the Muhammad trial was moved from Prince William County, Virginia, the jurisdiction where Dean Harold Myers (ph) was shot, to Virginia Beach 200 miles to the south.
TODD SANDERS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: The question of going from Prince William to Virginia Beach you would think that it would have to be better for the defense. Prince William County is the leading county in the state for the imposition of the death penalty.
MESERVE: Not that jurors in Virginia Beach won't be familiar with the case.
MARVIN MILLER, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: This is not something where a jury sits down in the jury box with a clean slate, listens to only the admissible evidence and then makes a decision. That's not this case.
MESERVE: A recent book by former Montgomery County Police Chief Charles Moose has become a best seller and led to a flurry of national television appearances.
CHARLES MOOSE, FORMER MONTGOMERY COUNTY POLICE CHIEF: Not your normal crime spree.
MESERVE: Another book by reporters for the "Washington Post" contains so much inside information defense attorneys tried unsuccessfully to get the case dismissed.
JONATHAN SHAPIRO, MUHAMMAD'S ATTORNEY: It's almost as though they're saying we all know he's guilty. We don't need to bother with the trial. Let's just go ahead and execute the man.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Anticipating that seating a fair and unbiased jury could be very, very tough, 140 people have been summoned to this courthouse tomorrow for possible selection and that may be just the first wave in a process that is expected to last all week -- Anderson.
COOPER: Is there any talk about how long the actual trial, once it does begin, might last?
MESERVE: Well there has been talk about a six week trial. If that, in fact, takes place it will overlap with the second sniper trial that of Lee Malvo. That's slated to begin November 11th in nearby Chesapeake, Virginia.
COOPER: All right, Jeanne Meserve, thanks very much.
Well to the White House next. After a weekend of less than flattering reports and disarray on Iraq, after another day of stepped up violence and casualties in Iraqi a bombing on Sunday, three soldiers killed since then, the latest today in Tikrit.
President Bush today got a little good news in the polls. He also spent another day doing what he can to see that a more positive picture of the war gets through to the public.
Here again, CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX (voice-over): President Bush began week two of his public relations campaign invoking the memories of 9/11 in his Columbus Day speech.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: People are willing to sacrifice for the country they love. They remember the lessons of September the 11th, 2001 and so do I. It's something we should never forget.
MALVEAUX: And the White House is making sure of that. Mr. Bush's campaign to defend Iraq policy enters a critical week with Secretary Powell making one more push for a U.N. Security Council resolution aimed at attracting international support and Congress about to take up Mr. Bush's $87 billion request for post-war funding.
Today Mr. Bush sat down with regional TV reporters to deliver his good news message about Iraq.
BUSH: Progress is being made and the Iraqi people are beginning to prosper and electricity if up and running and millions or thousands of children have been immunized. Hospitals are open. Schools are functioning. Their society is beginning to develop.
MALVEAUX: But policy analysts say the president needs to be more candid.
JIM STEINBERG, FMR. CLINTON DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think we're getting the same problem from the administration, which is it wants to hear more about the good news but it's really not prepared to face up to being more candid about the bad news and the difficulties that we're facing.
MALVEAUX: But a new CNN/USA Today Gallup polls shows that the president's approval rating is climbing. In late September, Mr. Bush's approval rating was at 50 percent, the lowest level since the beginning of his presidency. Now it has shot back up to 56 percent.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MALVEAUX: Now at one of his interviews, Mr. Bush shot back at his critics who said he had no post-war strategy and that he should take charge. Mr. Bush saying, and I'm quoting here: "They're just plain wrong about our strategy. We've had a strategy from the beginning. Jerry Bremer is running the strategy and we're making very good progress about the establishment of a free Iraq." Then he goes on to say: "And the person who is in charge is me" -- Anderson.
COOPER: Suzanne, you talk about this PR campaign. A lot of people have been talking about this PR campaign the administration is said to be undertaking. He talked to regional media outlets today. Where does it go from here? How long does this campaign last for?
MALVEAUX: Well, this campaign lasts as long as it takes really to convince the American people that this is the right way to go. One thing that was interesting is the fact that he bypassed what he calls the national media filter, that being us, got some fresh perspective, some fresh reporters, seeing also that he is more successful one-on- one as well as in front of friendly audiences.
You've seen the last couple of weeks traveling before military crowds. We expect that on Wednesday he's going to be traveling to California before a friendly crowd as well. The whole idea is to get him out in a venue where he performs strong, that is in front of audiences that are friendly, that are supportive and at the same time make his pitch, make his case, the campaign that this is working.
COOPER: All right, Suzanne Malveaux at the White House, thanks very much.
On now to the letters home, running in a number of smaller local papers around the country. They speak of the accomplishments in northern Iraq in language that the mother of one soldier says just didn't quite sound like her son.
Well, she was right. He signed the letter but someone else wrote it. The same goes for his buddies. Most say they agree with the sentiment even if the words weren't exactly their own. More now from CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): Soldiers of the 2nd Battalion of the 503rd Airborne Infantry Regiment parachuted into Iraq back in March and last month members of the unit, now based in the relatively peaceful northern Iraqi city of Kirkuk apparently began sending neatly typed letters to hometown newspapers highlighting progress in Iraq.
"The majority of the city has welcomed our presence with open arms. Children smile and run up to shake hands" read one.
That letter went to a Washington State newspaper "The Olympian," but when the editorial page editor got a second matching letter, signed by a different soldier, his suspicions were raised.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple of days later he got another letter, the second one of the two, and remembered the first one, went back and compared then and they were identical except for the signatures."
MCINTYRE: "The Olympian" exposed the form letter flap after passing the letters to the Gannett news service, which discovered the same letter published in 11 different U.S. newspapers.
The Pentagon denies it orchestrated the letter writing scheme, a spokesman telling CNN: "I am unaware of any particular campaign" but the spokesman didn't deny there is widespread frustration from the defense secretary on down that the news coverage doesn't focus on the success stories in Iraq. DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: What gets carried is the bad news. What gets carried is something that's harmful or unhelpful.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Soldiers contacted by the Gannett news service admitted they didn't write the letters. In fact, one said he didn't even sign the letters but they all said they agreed with what the letters said or they wouldn't have passed it on to their families back home.
The Pentagon believes that this whole letter, form letter writing episode was begun by someone in the unit and they insist it wasn't anything orchestrated by the Pentagon -- Anderson.
COOPER: So, Jamie, they're saying it was basically something that originated with this unit in Iraq, perhaps, I suppose a commanding officer or something rather than something out of Washington or the Pentagon?
MCINTYRE: Right. They're saying that the letter was composed apparently in the unit and distributed to soldiers who were told that they should send it home or send it to a newspaper if they agreed with it and they insist there wasn't any coercion involved. And, as we said, the soldiers who were contacted, who admitted they didn't write it, still said they agreed with it.
COOPER: And there are 11 letters that are known about at this time. I suppose tomorrow, you know, by tomorrow once the story gets more widely known more could come up but are they all from the same unit?
MCINTYRE: Yes. They're all from the same unit which is in northern Iraq which, you know, actually is more peaceful and not having the same trouble they're having in the so-called Sunni Triangle area between Baghdad, Tikrit, and Fallujah.
COOPER: All right, it's an interesting story. Jamie McIntyre thanks very much at the Pentagon tonight.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, who's the boss? Is the Bush administration speaking with more than one voice when it comes to Iraq?
And later, the new space race, will it begin with a Chinese effort to put a man in space?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, more now on the perception or perhaps the reality of disarray in the administration where Iraq is concerned. When the president was asked about it today he replied the person in charge is me, this after a key Republican Senator Dick Lugar implied over the weekend that he wasn't. The president, he said, has to be the president.
With us now to talk about it is Gideon Rose, managing editor of "Foreign Affairs" magazine. Thanks very much for being with us Gideon.
GIDEON ROSE,MANAGING EDITOR, "FOREIGN AFFAIRS" MAGAZINE: Thank you.
COOPER: To the extent there is a split, a fissure in the administration on Iraq, what are the sides, where does it fall?
ROSE: Basically it's the vice president's office and the civilian leadership of the Defense Department on one hand and the State Department, the CIA, some of the armed services and to a certain extent the NSC on the other side.
COOPER: And who's driving that other side? Is it Colin Powell at the State Department or is it more political decisions?
ROSE: Well, I don't think it's Colin Powell because he hasn't had much influence in the administration quite frankly for a long time so it's probably a combination of the political office and a general sense maybe in the NSC and with Condoleezza Rice that things aren't going as well as they should be.
COOPER: And the DOD is getting the blame for that within the administration you're saying?
ROSE: Well, this is the problem. They basically demanded that they get full control over Iraq policy, both before the war, during it, and after it, and now they're stuck with the results.
COOPER: Where does it go from here? I mean there is this campaign now, this concerted campaign it seems by the administration to sort of get out a positive message on Iraq.
ROSE: Well, that's really PR, which isn't going to do much to change the basic situation. If things turn around on the ground over there, if Saddam Hussein is found, if the attacks basically stop and if Iraq is seen to be moving forward then they can get away with not changing policy.
But I think that's unlikely and if things continue to go badly then basically the policy is going to have to change and the people who are running the policy up to this point are basically going to have to be pushed aside.
COOPER: How significant is it that on Sunday Dick Lugar came out and said what he said about the president? I mean Dick Lugar, I guess you could argue, has been on the outs of this administration for quite some time.
ROSE: I think it's more the fact that he said it rather than his being a spokesman because he hasn't been somebody who has been a big backer or a close confidante of this administration.
COOPER: But important that he said it because he's a Republican and what it allows others to come forward?
ROSE: Well, it's a sign that essentially players in Washington are emboldened to speak out against a White House that's somewhat weakened.
COOPER: And, if Saddam Hussein is captured, I mean you said that would be a positive step, obviously, but would all this sort of dissipate, would all of it go away?
ROSE: We just don't know. It would diminish at least somewhat but at this point it's beyond that. The killing of Qusay and Uday, Saddam's sons, was a help but it didn't stop things and so it would help matters but it wouldn't end the problem.
COOPER: Where do you see President Bush in all this? I mean if there is this fissure, this split, how is he playing it?
ROSE: Well, this is a actually a big question and very few people outside the inner circles of the administration actually know. Basically the president for all his comments today doesn't necessarily seem to be leading with a strong hand and if that doesn't change the administration's policy won't bend. It will ultimately break.
COOPER: Does this new system, this Iraq stabilization group, Condy Rice being in charge of it, does it make sense?
ROSE: Well, it would make sense because that's the way the government is supposed to operate. The NSC is supposed to coordinate the cabinet departments on behalf of the president. It hasn't operated that way for the last couple of years because Rice hasn't been as strong a player as Rumsfeld or Powell and especially as Dick Cheney.
COOPER: So, how does creating this other body fix the system that was supposed to work that way to begin with?
ROSE: It's less as a bureaucratic or institutional fix that it's important than as a signal that perhaps the president realizes that he needs to basically get his barons on the same playing (unintelligible).
COOPER: Interesting. Gideon Rose it was good to meet you.
ROSE: Thank you.
COOPER: Thanks very much.
Well, some other stories from around the world before we take a break. First stop the Middle East and the chaos over who's running the Palestinian government.
Yasser Arafat today appointed an acting security chief, another slap at Prime Minister Ahmed Qorei who has already threatened to resign a number of times because of disputes with Mr. Arafat. This weekend he said when a new government is formed three weeks from now, he will not be part of it.
London next and the beginning of not a normal life but a better one for the Iraqi boy who became such a powerful symbol of what wars can do, even the best of them. Ali Abbas (ph) lost his arms but by some miracle survived.
He was taken to London where today a local newspaper reports he has been successfully fitted with artificial limbs. "I'm all here now" he said "my arms feel good. Now I want to hug my sisters and the rest of my family" and now he can.
Finally to Dallas where doctors say two conjoined twins from Egypt are doing incredibly well after a day and a half of surgery to separate them. They were joined at the head. There's still certainly a long way and many more operations to go but doctors today said they were very pleased with the outcome thus far. The boys' father fainted when he got the good news.
And still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, soldiers speaking out or are they? What's behind the letter writing campaign about Iraq?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: A bit more now on the form letters home, if you will, what our guest tonight calls astro turf organizing, Astroturf. We learned from Jamie McIntyre at the top tonight that this time around it came not from a PR firm in Washington but from a CO in Kirkuk, at least that's what the Pentagon is saying. That said, neither the idea nor the practice of ginning up a grassroots campaign is all that rare these days, which is probably why a lot of alarm bells went off today.
With us in Washington tonight is Josh Marshall, contributing writer for "Washington Monthly" and the web log writer, the blogger of talkingpointsmemo.com. Welcome, thanks for being with us Josh.
JOSHUA MICAH MARSHALL, TALKINGPOINTSMEMO.COM: Thanks for having me.
COOPER: When you first heard about these letters what did you think? Did you think this is some sort of Astroturf campaign?
MARSHALL: You know it's hard to say. It wasn't clear when we first heard about it whether it was just a few soldiers who got together and, you know, came up with a letter and all sent it out under the names. Now, it seems like it went a little higher. * COOPER: ...about these letters. What do you think? Do you think this is some sort of Astroturf campaign?
MARSHALL: You know it's hard to say. It wasn't clear when we first heard about it whether it was just a few soldiers who got together and, you know, came up with a letter and all sent it out under their name.
Now it seems like it went a little higher up the food chain. I guess it's possible that it goes still higher up to the Pentagon but, as you said in your intro, it looked a lot like something that a lot of people in Washington are pretty familiar with, again this term Astroturf or organizing which is basically trying to gin up the appearance of some sort of groundswell of support for one cause or another. I mean in this case making the argument that the occupation, the reconstruction of Iraq is going better than it seems to many here in the U.S. So, I mean again the M.O. seemed like something a lot of people were pretty familiar with.
COOPER: Well, everyone is familiar with grassroots lobbying obviously, Astroturf lobbying is a spin off of that meaning it's faked basically. How do you go about creating the Astroturf? I mean how do you fake it?
MARSHALL: Well, it's a complex science. It's everything from, you know, bogus letters to the editor, op-eds by people who maybe are, you know, real people and even have expertise but they're sort of pale moving around sort of like, you know, from radio pale back in the '50s or whatever.
COOPER: So, some lobbying firm writes an op-ed piece or writes a letter to the editor and then has some regular citizen sign it?
MARSHALL: Basically, yes. I mean the industry as it were got started with the tobacco companies a couple decades ago and obviously the tobacco companies for years have been facing more and more regulation, more and more, you know, just they're not particularly popular.
And, if you're the tobacco companies you don't want to kind of hit that political fight just being the, you know, the big evil tobacco companies. You want to have at least the appearance that there's some groundswell of public support for you or, you know, smokers' rights and stuff like that.
So, they basically created a cadre of people who would go out and sort of fake the appearance of a groundswell of support. That's where the skills were honed, as it were, and then more recently a lot of these people went into PR firms. You know they're political consultants and so forth.
And it's everything under the sun from, you know, sort of Web sites that are created that are made to look like they're sort of, you know, kind of homegrown Web sites but they're actually kind of, you know, ones designed by a PR firm and make to look a little clunkier, something like that. And, again, op-eds, letters to the editor, (unintelligible) everything under the sun.
COOPER: So, I suppose the web has made a lot of this easier? I mean it allows a group of lobbyists or whomever to create, as you said, these phony Web sites. They'll look like it's, you know, just a fan site or a personal interest site.
MARSHALL: Easier and harder. I think that, again, we don't know precisely what happened with these letters from soldiers in Iraq but if you look at how, I mean this whole thing got started I think you showed earlier in the show that there was a newspaper, a small town newspaper in Washington State that got two of the same letters and then they obviously knew there was a problem and then they sort of started investigating. If you think of it before there was the Internet you could have the same letter appearing in a couple hundred hometown newspapers and there would just never be any way for anybody to kind of put it all together. So, I think the Internet does create these new avenues for what many people would consider mischief but it also makes it easier to discover (unintelligible).
COOPER: To discover it, yes. When you hear about political campaigns or political candidates who have very strong grassroots movement do you suspect, wait a minute, maybe this is sort of an Astroturf movement?
MARSHALL: You know you -- as you follow political campaigns and even more single issue campaigns it tends to be more in single issue campaigns than in, you know, campaigns of individual candidates, you can kind of, there are certain signs you look for that you can see.
And frankly nowadays the lines get a little blurred because some things that, you know, there is some kind of commingling of things that are sort of genuine grassroots and innovations coming over from the Astroturf side that they mix together.
COOPER: You talk about some signs you look for. Is there anything particularly that you can name to figure out whether something is sort of Astroturf campaign or actual grassroots lobby?
MARSHALL: You know a lot of times you look at groups that come up, you know, citizens for X, citizens for Y. You look at those and sometimes you can tell these aren't, these really aren't genuine citizens' groups. These are, you know, there's something fishy going on.
Other things in a lot of campaigns at least there's often push- pulling which is a way to kind of, you know, kind of get messages out there, kind of under the radar. A lot of signs, if I were more on my toes I'd come up (unintelligible).
COOPER: No, I put you on the spot and you did just good. Josh Marshall thanks very much. It was really interesting, appreciate you coming in.
MARSHALL: Thanks for having me.
COOPER: All right.
Well still to come on NEWSNIGHT, they went to the baseball game and a boxing match broke out. The Yankees and the Red Sox try to put the non-baseball competition behind them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, the headlines today on Slate's homepage reads "Who will God smite this time," meaning the formerly (unintelligible) Cubs of Chicago or the ever choking Sox rouge of Boston.
Given the grudge match going on between the Red Sox and Yankees, though, the headline writers might want to focus on the playoffs first and stick a little closer on the worldly realm.
What would Pedro smiting Don, the league smiting both, and the Nielson numbers showing baseball fans totally smitten by it all. The Yanks and Sox went at it again tonight with memories of the weekend still very fresh.
Here's CNN's Josie Burke.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSIE BURKE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Red Sox-Yankees series was supposed to showcase the best that baseball has to offer, two bitter rivals fueled by intense emotion and a deep appreciation for the game's history. Then came this pitch.
JOE TORRE, YANKEE'S MANAGER: I know there's no question in my mind that Pedro hit him on purpose.
BURKE: Red Sox pitcher Pedro Martinez denies that but there's no denying the pitch set off an ugly chain of events starting with Manny Ramirez taking exception to this Roger Clemens fast ball.
ROGER CLEMENS, YANKEE'S PITCHER: It was just a fast ball. I was trying to strike him out inside. It wasn't near him and then he started walking toward me, starting mouthing me and, you know, I'm going to have none of that.
BURKE: In the ensuing melee Yankee's coach Don Zimmer charged Martinez who threw the 72-year-old to the ground. What could be worse for baseball than that sight? How about a ninth inning brawl in the bullpen involving two Yankees players and a Red Sox employee?
LARRY LUCCHINO, RED SOX PRESIDENT: I don't see this as the beginning of some serial misconduct on the playing field. On the contrary, I think this episode happened. It happened for all the obvious reasons of intensity and emotion and post season importance, but the players will move on.
BURKE: Boston Police are investigating the incident and could file charges against the two Yankees, Jeff Nelson and Karim (ph) Garcia. Security in the bullpen has been increased along with the tension level in the series.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When the series began everyone knew it was going to be quite a battle. It was going to be very emotional, a lot of intensity, but I think we've upgraded it from a battle to a war.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BURKE: There had been some concern that there would be a carryover effect from game three heading into game four but so far we've seen absolutely no evidence of that. It's actually been a remarkably well played game and both teams have been remarkably well behaved. Even earlier in the game there was a hit batter but it was clear that it was just a pitch that got away from Red Sox knuckle-baller Tim Wakefield and we can honestly say the ugliest incident occurred before the game when the crowd booed national anthem singer Michael Bolton ruthlessly -- Anderson.
COOPER: I'm not even going to question why that happened. These kind of brawls, I mean is it bad for baseball or does it bring more viewers? Does it bring a new audience to the sport?
BURKE: Well there's certainly a camp that would say that any publicity is going to be good whether it's bad or good but people involved with baseball will tell you that this is not something that they wanted to see happen.
With a national spotlight shining on these two teams the way they detracted viewers with all of the history they were hoping that it would be people looking at the series because it was so well played and not for the reasons of hey is the steel cage match going to break out next -- Anderson.
COOPER: All right, Josie Burke thanks very much, appreciate it.
A few more items now from around the country starting with politics. After months of campaigning Congressman Dennis Kucinich made it official today. He is running for president. He's on the leftish side of the Democratic Party. He wants to get out of Iraq immediately and says if he's elected he'll set up a cabinet level department of peace.
Louisiana next where a church bus hit a truck hauling cotton. It happened late this morning on Interstate 20 in the northeastern part of the state. Fifteen people were on the bus, most of them seniors. Eight people died. The driver told investigators he might have fallen asleep at the wheel.
Jockey Bill Shoemaker has died. He lived more than seven decades, longer than doctors expected. When he was born he weighed just two pounds. His mother kept him in a shoe box by the fireplace for the first few weeks of his life. He would grow to all of 4'11" and 95 pounds but go on to a career that included nearly 9,000 victories, four of them at the Kentucky Derby. Bill Shoemaker was 72.
And Joan Kroc has lost her battle with cancer. She was 75. The wife of McDonald's founder Ray Kroc, she was the company's biggest shareholder and will be remembered primarily for her work with charities.
And coming up ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the trials and tribulations of becoming a lawyer in New York.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well, if you wanted us to describe it as something like "Sex in the City" meets "Paper Chase" so we will. Lawyer and author Alex Wellen who has been seen frequently on this program focusing on the issues of cyber crime has just published "Barman" which we'd like to describe as the mix between "Sex in the City" and "The Paper Chase."
Alex joins us here in New York. Thanks for being with us.
ALEX WELLEN, AUTHOR, "BARMAN": Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me.
COOPER: It's a book about lawyers. People hate lawyers.
WELLEN: That's right.
COOPER: And they hate journalists, you're both actually.
WELLEN: That's right so have I devolved maybe from the lawyer to a journalist? Yes, and there's like 1.2 million attorneys. There's 90,000 people applying to law school. Everyone wants to be a lawyer especially when it comes to the economy.
COOPER: Now you sort of decided to be a lawyer based on ping pong.
WELLEN: Right. Right.
COOPER: You brought it.
WELLEN: I brought it for you because I figured you would appreciate it.
(CROSSTALK)
WELLEN: No, that's good. It's upside down.
COOPER: Oh wait, it's like this?
WELLEN: No, no you were right. Put this part there, yes, all right.
COOPER: So this is some sort of a ping pong paddle.
WELLEN: Right that's where the ping pong reference is is in "Barman" but I was an engineer and I had a broken ping pong paddle and I put this together because I needed a paddle on the other side.
COOPER: You made a better paddle.
WELLEN: I made a better paddle and I said I would patent it so I went to a patent attorney and he told me that it was crap so then I said I would just take the easy route and I would just go to law school and become a patent attorney and then patent it.
COOPER: Right and you did.
WELLEN: I did. This is actually the patent that's right and then I wrote about it so there's capitalism.
COOPER: Have you ever actually marketed this?
WELLEN: No. You're doing it right now.
COOPER: (Unintelligible) a little infomercial but that basically...
WELLEN: No, that was -- yes, that was...
COOPER: What surprised you most about becoming a lawyer?
WELLEN: You know there was a lot of drudgery. I did want to go into litigation but it was a lot more difficult as far as pushing through paper and running around the country and document review. It wasn't -- I mean obviously it's very sexy on TV as it's portrayed.
COOPER: Right.
WELLEN: But I didn't find that it was a creative enough place for me.
COOPER: Right.
WELLEN: But I met plenty of attorneys along the way (unintelligible).
COOPER: Every lawyer I know who I went to college with feels like they're destroying their lives and (unintelligible).
WELLEN: I know and I feel for them. You know what this book is for? This is for the people that we drive freaking crazy. You must know someone or dated someone that has a friend of a friend who's gone through the bar exam and this is a very like light look at what it's like to undergo that.
COOPER: Which you describe in sort of terms of a pregnancy, a gestation period.
WELLEN: Right. Well, I thought it was a metamorphoses. I thought from the moment you get -- that you graduate law school, right, to the moment that you're sworn in is nine months so that was a perfect nine-month period. That was your gestation. Law school was conception and then when you got your results it was birth and then there would be no forward. There'd just be foreplay.
COOPER: But it's interesting in reading your book the degree to which there's this tier system in law school.
WELLEN: Right.
COOPER: If you're in the first tier, if you go to Harvard, Princeton, I don't know who else, Yale.
WELLEN: Yes, you know, and people may interpret it as sour grapes. Here's the point is that "U.S. News and World" to some extent has done a disservice to people.
COOPER: The magazine does a yearly ranking on law schools.
WELLEN: Exactly. They do a ranking system of law schools, of all school but for law schools you're relegated to a category and it made -- perhaps it's my issue in this book and I'm willing to admit that openly but Temple, which was a remarkable school just didn't work in the tier system as well. They were tier two which was fine but there was tier three and tier four.
COOPER: What does that matter what tier you are because it determines where you get to work after college, after graduation?
WELLEN: I think it opens certain doors. It was definitely a little bit more difficult but, you know, now a lot of employers are willing to look beyond the "U.S. News and World" because there's so many problems with it. Forty percent of it is based on reputation.
COOPER: Right.
WELLEN: So it's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
COOPER: How do you determine that?
WELLEN: Exactly so you go to all these law schools and these deans are rating themselves and they're rating their neighbors and they're rating someone across the country.
So, it is this self-fulfilling prophecy. Temple admitted people for all kinds of different reasons, these remarkable candidates and they had this very diverse and they still do student body.
COOPER: The book "The Paper Chase" has probably got a lot, a whole generation of people going to law school.
WELLEN: That's right.
COOPER: This is really you see it as sort of an updating on "The Paper Chase"?
WELLEN: Look, that's a classic. I don't want to pretend that I'm "The Paper Chase" but I will tell you that that was a huge influence on me but that was, and John J. Osborne's book "The Paper Chase" shaped the image of law school.
What I wanted to do if I could do it is look at the portion of law that no one has talked about undergoing this universal bar exam but also have just like a coming of age thing and do it in a contemporary way that doesn't have to do with Harvard because a lot of us didn't -- did you go to Harvard?
COOPER: Undergraduate went to Yale.
WELLEN: Well, then yes you Yalies hate the Harvards so that's great so we're friends.
COOPER: Yes, exactly. And yet you still recommend that everyone should go to law school. WELLEN: Yes, that's right so we can all sue each other. I figure that's what we would do all day long. No, I think that I always thought it was an empowering experience. I loved law and I just didn't like to practice too much so I encourage people.
COOPER: Empowering why because it trains your mind to think in a certain way?
WELLEN: There is that definitely. It trains your mind to do literally anything that you want to do but it also is empowering in that you understand your social system. Every single story that you did tonight, you know, a lawyer will look at it from a different point of view, has different things to contribute to it.
You're just thinking about things. It's an entire new language so for that reason I think it's important in the system that we live in to know the laws that we live and at least be able to find them.
COOPER: All right. The book is "Barman." Alex Wellen thanks for joining us.
WELLEN: Yes, it's nice to be here.
COOPER: It's nice to meet you.
WELLEN: Thanks.
COOPER: All right.
Well still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the new space race. The Chinese prepare to send man into space but who exactly is it?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Well those of you at a certain age will no doubt recall the early days of the first space race when Shepard, Garron (ph) and Glenn were household names. Well, now the Chinese are trying to join the list of space faring countries.
But in a media strategy that is more like the secrecy shrouded Soviet space program of the early 1960s we don't know exactly when this week the launch might happen or even which one of the three Ticonauts (ph), what the Chinese are calling their astronauts, will be asked to make the first ride into space.
Here's what we do know from CNN's Miles O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four decades after the Soviet Union and then the U.S. first sent men into space, China is poised to match the feat, join the elite club, and perhaps launch a new race in space.
JOAN JOHNSON-FREESE, NAVAL WAR COLLEGE: It could be a Sputnik shock all over again or it could be the American public beginning to question whether or not the U.S., whether deliberately or not, has begun to cede its leadership in manned space.
O'BRIEN: Western observers are convinced the Chinese flight is much more than a one-off stunt. They first began their efforts to send humans into space 11 years ago, have flown four unmanned test flights, and if all goes well on their early manned missions plan to launch a space station of their own and within 15 year establish a permanent outpost on the moon, lofty goals indeed.
BOB WALKER, SPACE ANALYST: It's a very aggressive program where they're putting lots of resources into it and they believe it's a part of their national destiny.
O'BRIEN: In a sense the Chinese began the space race, first investing rockets in the 13th Century using the so-called fire arrows to stave off invading Mongols.
And, according to Chinese legend, the first person with the right stuff was a 16th Century man named Juan Hu (ph). He supposedly strapped 47 rockets to a wicker chair, had 47 assistants light the fuses hoping to reach the moon. Not a trace of him was found.
Hundreds of years later the Chinese are clearly no longer in the space vanguard. They're flying a capsule that is little more than a knock-off of the Russian Soyuz designed in the '60s and their launch facility in the Gobi Desert looks strikingly similar to NASA's Kennedy Space Center but western experts don't doubt their desire or ability to quickly catch up.
CHARLES VICK, GLOBAL SECURITY: What seems to be 40 years behind in technology can really come up and fool you very quickly. Immediately it is not a direct threat that cannot be dealt with by our capabilities and certainly our military predominance in space.
O'BRIEN: Analysts say former Chinese Leader Zhang Zemin first authorized the manned program after witnessing the U.S. military prowess in the first Gulf War aided by space-based assets but the motivation runs deeper than that.
JOHNSON-FREESE: I am convinced the Chinese have observed or have read the playbook, if you will, for the U.S. Apollo experience and decided that they are pursuing a manned space activity for exactly the same reasons that we did and those reasons are many not a single reason.
O'BRIEN: It's about enhancing their international prestige, building national pride at home, advancing science and technology and creating jobs. No less than 270,000 are employed by the Chinese Space Program.
VICK: If the Chinese decide to take leadership in this area and decide to challenge us both commercially as well as perhaps strategically then the United States has to make a very, very clear decision about whether or not we are going to advance our space technology or whether or not we're going to rest on our laurels of the past. O'BRIEN: The Chinese know a little something about resting on their laurels. It's a lesson they learned in the 13th Century. It might be time for advocates of U.S. space prowess to brush up on some history.
Miles O'Brien, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And that is NEWSNIGHT for tonight. Thanks for watching. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'll be back with my own show "360" tomorrow night, 7:00 p.m. Eastern time. Aaron Brown will be back here tomorrow. Good night.
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