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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Muhammad Brings Back Defense Team; Schiavo's Feeding Tube Reinserted; Bush Continues Asian Tour
Aired October 22, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
The program tonight seems tied up as much in history as the day's news. There is tape from four years ago of two young men. Their names, we suspect, mostly now forgotten who would become the Columbine killers.
And we revisit again tonight the story of Terri Schiavo whose heart stopped beating briefly though long enough to do great damage 13 years ago. The fight over her life is mired in disputes over the nature of her condition, her treatment all these years and her own wishes.
And then there is Beirut, 20 years ago tomorrow the Marine barracks were bombed in that city as good a marker as we can think of for the start of the campaign of terror against the United States.
In each of these cases there are lessons, some learned, some not, lessons we'll look at tonight.
We begin with the latest twists and turns in the D.C. sniper trial, Jeanne Meserve starts the whip from Virginia Beach, Virginia, Jeanne a headline please.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, it's another trip through the looking glass at the trial of John Muhammad. Two days after firing his defense team, Muhammad brings them back abandoning his effort to represent himself -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeanne thank you, back to you at the top.
Now back to the case of Terri Schiavo, in Florida John Zarrella continues his reporting there, John a headline.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, her feeding tube reinserted and Terri Schiavo rehydrated. The 39-year-old woman is back tonight at the hospice she left only 24 hours ago -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
Now down under to Australia where President Bush continues his Asian tour, our Senior White House Correspondent John King tonight or should we say tomorrow morning, John a headline from you.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president among friends here in Australia the final stop of his Asia trip but even here dissent, protests inside and outside as the president addresses Australia's parliament and once again justifies his decision to go to war in Iraq -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
And finally to the Pentagon where Donald Rumsfeld's candor continues on full display, Jamie McIntyre on what the defense secretary said this time, Jamie the headline.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CHIEF PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, this little piece of paper here is what is called a snowflake by Donald Rumsfeld's staff. It's a short, to the point, memo designed to spur his staff to action but this particular snowflake has prompted a blizzard of criticism about whether Rumsfeld is as candid as he ought to be in public.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you, we'll get back to you tonight, all the rest as well.
Also coming up on the program the lessons of Beirut 20 years later, reporter Robin Wright was there that awful day and joins us tonight to talk about the lessons learned or not.
And later terror here at home, eco-terror, who are the people attacking car dealerships and construction sites?
And, of course, the highlight of every program something to crow about for sure, morning papers comes your way as well, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin tonight with the sniper trial and no surprise here, another surprise. After two days representing himself and, according to legal experts, all but committing suicide by jury, John Muhammad changed his mind and in keeping with the tenor of developments so far this one unfolded somewhat strangely too.
Here again, CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): A toothache causes another turn in the topsy turvy trial of John Muhammad. Muhammad asked that Peter Greenspun and Jonathan Shapiro again lead his defense after complaining of an abscessed tooth.
In a bench conference, Judge Leroy Millette asked: "Are you making this decision solely because of your physical problem or because you think it's in your best interest to have them represent you?" Muhammad replied, "the latter." His attorneys expressed relief.
JONATHAN SHAPIRO, MUHAMMAD'S ATTORNEY: You don't know how emotional it is for a lawyer with death on the table to be sidelined in deference to a defendant's right to represent himself.
MESERVE: Observers said it looked like Muhammad had gotten a dose of reality.
ABBE SMITH, GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER: I think he realized when he was out there on the hot seat that he could use some help.
MESERVE: There was testimony about a September 21st shooting outside a Montgomery, Alabama liquor store that killed one woman and wounded another.
KELLIE ADAMS, SNIPER VICTIM: The bullet went in the back of my neck, came out right here in the front of my face. My left vocal chord was paralyzed.
MESERVE: In court, Kellie Adams still spoke with difficulty. As she left the stand she took long side long glances at Muhammad.
James Gray described chasing a man from the scene and coming face-to-face with him in an alley. His eyes were big and round, he said, "and they looked like he was in some kind of a frenzy. When I saw his eyes he scared me." Malvo was brought into the room. Gray said "that's him" and broke down in tears.
The victim of an earlier shooting at a Maryland liquor store also positively identified Malvo but backed off under cross-examination. The victim, Mohammed Rashid, hung his head overcome with emotion as he heard himself yelling "I am dying" on a 911 tape made the night of the shooting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Lee Malvo appeared three times in court today so witnesses could identify him. During one appearance when the jury was not in the room Muhammad gestured to him with his arm. Malvo saw him but did not respond -- Aaron.
BROWN: There's a theory out there and maybe there's a question in this somewhere that Mr. Muhammad's days of representing himself might have helped him a bit in that he was able to portray himself in front of the jury as human.
MESERVE: He was. He got up and he gave an opening statement and then, as you know, conducted several cross-examinations. He was very polite to everyone he spoke to, was fairly lawyerly in his general approach and got to put out some ideas about himself and his theories of what happened during the sniper shootings and he will never have to undergo cross-examination. So potentially it's a win for him.
Now, was this choreographed? I could say certainly not by his defense attorneys. I watched their faces that morning two days ago when they were removed from the case. They were shell shocked by that development. I watched their faces again today. They were very happy to be back on this case -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve in Virginia Beach.
On to Florida and what predictably and sadly enough has turned out to be neither a happy ending in the case of Terri Schiavo nor especially promising for a start either. Today saw her back on life support, a feeding tube back with questions of what kind of life it is still unsettled and no end to the friction between her parents and her husband.
Again, here's CNN's John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA (voice-over): Terri Schiavo was returned to the hospice where she spent the last three years after only 24 hours in a Clearwater hospital. Rehydrated and with her feeding tube reinserted her husband's attorney said Schiavo was stabilized and could be moved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's extremely frustrating today. We've been sitting around waiting all day to find out what's going on, how my sister is doing, if we can visit her and we've been getting no information at all.
ZARRELLA: The battle over whether Terri Schiavo remains on life support centers on one pivotal question. Can the brain-damaged woman be rehabilitated? During an interview last year her husband said it was impossible.
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, HUSBAND: She recognizes nobody. She has no brain left basically.
ZARRELLA: But her family insists that's not what they see.
SUZANNE CARR, SCHIAVO'S SISTER: If she acts the way she does now with no therapy I mean I see there's definitely a light for her at the end of the tunnel.
ZARRELLA: A year ago the court conducted an evidentiary hearing. Two medical experts for each side were brought in, along with a court- appointed doctor. The exams were documented on video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri, can you look at me.
ZARRELLA: But the exams didn't settle the dispute. Doctors representing the family said there was hope. Doctors representing her husband, along with the court-appointed doctor said there wasn't.
DR. PETER BAMBAKIDIS, COURT-APPOINTED NEUROLOGIST: Unfortunately, I know of no single treatment or combination of treatments that could result in any meaningful improvement in her current situation.
ZARRELLA: It was following this hearing the court declared Terri Schiavo in a "persistent vegetative state" meaning her responses are not cognitive and her movements are not voluntary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: Now late this afternoon both sides were ordered to come to agreement on the appointment of a guardian for Terri as per the new Florida state law. The judge has given the two sides five days to come to an agreement. If they can't agree, and they haven't agreed on much the past ten years, the judge will appoint his own guardian -- Aaron.
BROWN: And is it clear what the guardian's role and responsibility will be?
ZARRELLA: It certainly is not clear because Michael Schiavo, her husband, will still remain in charge. He will still be able to make the decisions. The only decision he can't make any longer is whether to pull the life supporting feeding tube from her. The guardian that will be appointed will be reporting back to the governor and the chief judge but as far as we're told that's about the only role that the guardian ad litem will play -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you very much, John Zarrella in Florida tonight.
We'll talk a bit more about the facts of Ms. Schiavo's condition as well as the ethical implications of what the Florida legislature has done. Dr. John Fins, an expert in these issues, joins us. That's a little bit later in the program tonight.
First a story that raised a familiar sort of chill as we learned of it tonight. The early bulletins mentioned a postal facility, a sealed envelope traces of ricin, one of the deadliest poisons known to man. Left unsaid the who, the why and whether this would seem to be in some way connected with terrorism.
Tonight it looks like the answer to that last question is no but the ricin is real and investigators who have been working on this case since last Thursday have a number of leads to follow, reporting for us tonight CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Federal authorities called it a precaution when they closed a postal handling airmail facility at the Greenville, South Carolina Airport. The Centers for Disease Control confirmed Tuesday night a package found last week at the facility contained trace amounts of the deadly toxin ricin.
BILL BROWN, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE: There is no indication at all that any of the substance inside the envelope was on the outside at any time so everything was contained inside the envelope.
MATTINGLY: So well contained that authorities are downplaying any threat to public health as well as any connection to terrorism but they are investigating an apparent case of criminal extortion.
Authorities tell CNN the ricin came with an angry unsigned note. One investigator tells CNN the anger is directed at legislation regulating the trucking industry but who the recipient of the package was supposed to be has not been disclosed. An FBI official did say the demand is not for money and that the note contains significant leads. About 60 people work at the Greenville facility. It's believed only two or three came in contact with the package and no one is showing any ill effects.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: Nonetheless, the facility will remain closed until testing is complete at least through tomorrow -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, they had this since Thursday. Do we know how it came to be known today or tonight?
MATTINGLY: That is the first half of this big mystery. No one knows exactly how it got to the facility. The postal workers are being credited and their training is being credited with them being able to spot what they called a suspicious envelope.
They separated it from what they were looking at and they have procedures there to take care of this and they say that the postal workers were able to spot it and that's where this all got started.
BROWN: David thanks a lot, David Mattingly tonight.
It has been four years since the Columbine shootings and today the killings and the shooters return in a fresh and painful way. Tapes of the two killers shooting some of the guns they would later turn on their classmates and teachers were released.
It is almost certain to reopen old wounds and some might argue there is little news value in it all. Just the same it is another piece of a puzzle of these two young men and how they came to be.
Here's CNN's Brian Cabell.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): March 6, 1999, six weeks before the Columbine High School massacre, the two teenage killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were practicing, practicing with their weapons in a national forest not far from the high school.
It was a seemingly light-hearted outing for the two boys shooting up bowling pins and trees, getting acquainted with the guns they'd later use for deadly purposes.
Accompanying Harris and Klebold were two men convicted of supplying them with the guns Mark Manes and Phillip Duran. The tape shows that some of the weapons had been illegally modified.
The video was released by the Jefferson County, Colorado Sheriff's Department after a Columbine task force urged them to do so. Officials say it's something the public should see.
What the tape doesn't tell us is the motive behind the horrific assault on the high school April 20, 1999. The boys killed 12 classmates, a teacher and then themselves. Several others were wounded.
Harris and Klebold were intelligent youngsters from middle-class two-parent families but they apparently considered themselves outcasts at school. What this tape does confirm is that the massacre was not the result of a sudden impulsive decision. They practiced killing before they actually did it.
Brian Cabell, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, an update on the president's Asia trip. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King joins us.
Then the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and the memo, a grim outlook or necessary questions, it depends on who you ask.
And later tonight, American Marines as targets of terror, Lebanon 20 years ago tomorrow, the barracks bombing and the lessons learned or forgotten.
A break first, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld recently did what he counseled fellow CEOs to do back in private life, he cut to the chase. Speaking bluntly and realistically he outlined the challenges facing his organization, in this case the Pentagon, where Iraq and Afghanistan are concerned.
But unlike at Fortune 500 companies internal memos from government agencies often leak and this one most definitely not intended for public consumption is now the subject of intense public debate.
Here again, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The memo, Rumsfeld's critics charge it's a smoking gun.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D), MINORITY LEADER: I think Secretary Rumsfeld's comments are an illustration of the concern that they have about the failure of their policies in Iraq so far.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld says it's just his way of managing a slow moving bureaucracy.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The reason I write those things is and ask questions is because I find it a useful thing to do.
MCINTYRE: A grim outlook is how "USA Today" characterized the memo, which the newspaper was the first to report in a front page story. Nonsense, responds the Pentagon. GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINTS CHIEF CHAIRMAN: What you're seeing in this memo I think is the way we do business is our boss is -- challenges us with a lot of questions.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon argues nothing in the memo contradicts what Rumsfeld has said in public but in the internal document, meant only for his closest deputies, Rumsfeld is far more candid in expressing dissatisfaction on many fronts.
"A long hard slog" is how Rumsfeld portrays the prospects in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We have not yet made truly bold moves" he writes of transforming the Pentagon to fight terrorism. He complains about the lack of measures "to know if we are winning or losing the global war on terror" and concedes "mixed results" in the battle against al Qaeda.
Rumsfeld also states flatly he can't change the Pentagon fast enough to successfully fight the war on terrorism and suggests it might be time to fashion a new institution to refocus the effort.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld's aides insist the memo is just a reflection of his management style in which he is often prodding his staff to think unconventionally.
The White House voiced support for him today. A spokesman traveling with President Bush in Australia saying that this is exactly the sort of thing a strong and capable defense secretary ought to be doing -- Aaron.
BROWN: It is not simply the words, at least as I read it, but the tone when he says, you know, we've had mixed results where al Qaeda is concerned. That's not something the administration has wanted to say or has said publicly.
MCINTYRE: I know but I think if you scrutinize exactly what Rumsfeld has said, certainly it's obvious they haven't captured Osama bin Laden. They haven't captured Saddam Hussein, top on the list or Mullah Omar. That's a mixed result and I don't think Rumsfeld has suggested any differently.
Clearly, in his public appearances he's trying to highlight the positive but in this memo he's basically telling his top people that he wants them to think of other ways and other approaches of how they can do things better and isn't that what you'd want the defense secretary to be doing?
BROWN: Let me ask you one more thing. Why do you think it was leaked?
MCINTYRE: Good question. You know we don't know the motivation of the leakers because we weren't the recipient of the initial leak and people can leak for all kinds of reasons.
It appears on the surface that somebody wanted to embarrass Rumsfeld but it's also kind of interesting because you could make the case that this memo actually makes him look like he's firmly in charge and has a good grasp of what the real challenges are.
So, the Pentagon was trying to spin it in a fashion today that would indicate that this memo reflected well on Rumsfeld. We don't really know why they leaked it.
BROWN: I'll buy that too. I don't either but it's a fascinating question if nothing else. Thank you, Jamie, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.
If it's Wednesday or Thursday remember the International Date Line, it must be Australia for President Bush. After a swing through the Asian-Pacific that caused a diplomatic ripple or two, the president landed today on somewhat firmer ground.
Our Senior White House Correspondent has been with the president on the whole trip and joins us again tonight from the Australian capital, John King, good evening.
KING: Good evening or good morning from Canberra.
Aaron it has been a very interesting trip so perhaps not a surprise that we have a very interesting final overseas stop for President Bush. He's here in Australia to say thank you, especially to Prime Minister John Howard among the earliest leaders to step out and endorse the president's policy of regime change in Iraq. Prime Minister Howard, of course, also sent some combat troops into Iraq, so Mr. Bush meeting with Prime Minister Howard to say thanks.
Shortly after this bilateral meeting, Mr. Bush got a taste of the parliamentary system and a reminder firsthand that it can sometimes get a bit rowdy when his close friends, like Prime Minister Howard or Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair have to go before the parliament for question time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Brown will excuse himself from the House. Senator Brown will excuse himself from the House. The sergeant will remove Senator Brown from the House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Mr. Bush interrupted there by one Green Party member of the Australian Parliament. A bit later in the speech he was interrupted by another Green Party member.
Their chief criticism of this president that he overstated the intelligence, the case for going to war in Iraq, their main criticism though that Mr. Bush led Great Britain and led Australia into a way without the blessing of the United Nations. Mr. Bush in his speech directly addressing that criticism saying in his view the United Nations left him no choice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The resolution to the world if they are to be more ink on paper they must be enforced. If the institutions of the world are to be more than debating societies it must eventually act. If the world promises serious consequences for the defiance of the lawless then serious consequences must follow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Outside the parliament protests as well. We should say perhaps politely John Howard's critics not so subtle in making their case that he has been subservient to President Bush in the war in Iraq. This is a stop again for the president to say thank you.
He said in an extended conversation with reporters aboard Air Force One last night that he considers this trip to be a great success but even here in a country that stands steadfastly with the United States another reminder that this president's world view and his foreign policy, not just when it comes to Iraq, are open to some criticism around the world -- Aaron.
BROWN: When we all step back, when you get home and everyone rests up, what's the lead on this weeklong trip? Was it North Korea or is it something else?
KING: I think the lead will be North Korea, especially if Mr. Bush is right in saying that the Chinese President Hu Jintao will stand shoulder-to-shoulder with him in making clear to North Korea that it will not get a one-on-one treaty with the United States and that it either must choose to defy the world and all of its neighbors or enter into another round of those six-party negotiations.
One other interesting moment, the president sitting down in Bali, Indonesia yesterday face-to-face with Muslim clerics who told him that anti-American sentiment is fomented in this part of the world, especially among Muslims because of his policy in the Middle East. Mr. Bush insists that his policy is fair but he got a firsthand glimpse of why so many Muslims in a terrorist hotbed Indonesia don't believe him -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you, travel safely home, John King in Australia tonight.
Coming up on the program American Marines under terror attack in this case Lebanon 20 years ago tomorrow. We'll look at the event and we'll talk with Robin Wright who was in Beirut that day when it happened.
We'll take a break first. From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Iraq may not be the central front in the war on terror, as President Bush described it back in September but that war, most experts agree, really began with a series of events back in 1983. Twenty years ago tomorrow, terrorists drove a truck loaded with explosives into the Marine barracks in Beirut. The resulting blast took 241 lives and created fallout that continues today.
In a moment we'll talk about the lessons taught that horrible day, first how it looked as CNN's Jim Clancy reported the story October 23, 1983.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rescue crews tore through tons of concrete and steel throughout the day Sunday in efforts to reach an undisclosed number of U.S. Marines and sailors who were still alive in what used to be the command post for American forces in Lebanon.
The blast came shortly after 6:15 in the morning. Six hours later Colonel Timothy Gerrity (ph), commander of the Marine contingent of the multinational peacekeeping force described how it happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A truck loaded with high explosives crashed through two barricades in front of the Italian landing team headquarters. That's adjacent to the terminal building here at Beirut International Airport. It went through two barricades, around another, and ended up in the lobby of the main complex that houses the headquarters of the battalion landing team.
CLANCY: Bodies of the victims and the wounded were ferried by helicopter to U.S. and Italian ships offshore that provided emergency medical treatment. The Marine command post was just a block from the terminal at Beirut International Airport.
The fact that many Marines and sailors were known to be still buried under all of the debris led credence to predictions that the toll of dead and wounded would go much higher. The reaction of Lebanese and American rescue teams was swift but because of the devastation it was a difficult process of finding and freeing the victims.
About three miles north, in west Beirut, an almost identical rescue effort was under way to reach more than 75 people who were trapped beneath what was once the headquarters of the French forces in Lebanon. The French, like the Americans, had come here to keep the peace. The grim faces of soldiers who surrounded the area was an assessment of the price being paid to that commitment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These kind of things just harden our resolve in that we will continue to do what we came here to do. And that is to provide assistance for a free and independent Lebanon.
CLANCY: It was not clear how long either of the rescue operations would take, but there was nothing more that could be done that was not already being carried out. There was only hope and prayers that any of those who survived and were buried underneath it all could be reached in time.
Jim Clancy, CNN, Beirut.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Within six months of the attack, most of the American troops were pulled out of Lebanon. And for two decades, American policy-makers and terrorist leaders, too, take cues from what happened there.
We're joined tonight by journalist Robin Wright, who was in Beirut 20 years ago when the barracks was bombed. She's the author of "Sacred Rage: The Wrath of Militant Islam." And she joins us again tonight from Washington.
It's always nice to see you.
Just briefly, because there are so many things to talk about, what do you remember about the day?
ROBIN WRIGHT, AUTHOR, "SACRED RAGE": Oh, I'll never forget it, the enormous explosion that literally ripped through all of Beirut.
I was five, six miles away, and I'll never forget being awakened by a really thunderous explosion that rattled windows a long distance from where the two bombs went off at the American and French compounds.
BROWN: You said today earlier, everyone knew it was going to happen. Who was everyone and what did they know was going to happen and what did they do to stop it?
WRIGHT: Well, Colonel Garrety (ph), who was the commander in Beirut at the time, had been ordered 34 days earlier to fire on a Muslim militia in Beirut.
He protested because the Americans had been deployed as peacekeepers, not to get engaged in what was then a raging civil war in Lebanon between Christians and Muslims, who were vying for a different division of power inside Lebanon. And he protested and said that, if the U.S. warships did open fire on the Muslim militias, that the American Marines would then become targets. And his direct quote was to the effect, "We'll get slaughtered down here."
And he was right. And everyone who lived in Beirut and knew the situation that well knew that the Marines were going to become a target. And that was the beginning, the most -- it was the most powerful non-nuclear explosion anywhere on Earth since World War II.
BROWN: I went back and listened to what President Reagan said after the attack. And he talked about, if we cut and run, the terrorists or the people -- I'm not sure he used the word terrorists, honestly -- the people who did this, the criminals who did this, will be emboldened.
I suppose you can argue whether six months is cutting and running, but that's certainly how it was perceived. Have the terrorists been emboldened? WRIGHT: Yes.
If you look at that whole period, it was a yearlong period where both two American embassies and the Marine compound were all destroyed by suicide bombers. Those were the first suicide bombers in the Middle East. This was a new tactic. The use of militant Islam, the emergence of Hezbollah was then a new type of political party. Only in Iran had you seen a kind of angry Islam become a political force.
But, even then, it was not used as a terrorist tactic. It was against another nation. Even if you look at the takeover of the American Embassy, that was a political act, in many ways. But this was pure terror. And so, these were the seeds that we now see having -- played out in so many countries in so many parts of the Islamic world.
BROWN: John Lehman, the former Navy secretary, is quoted today as saying: "There is no question it" -- the Beirut bombing -- "it was a major cause of 9/11. We told the world that terrorism succeeds."
Was that the lesson of Beirut?
WRIGHT: To a certain degree, yes.
It also showed that -- in part, because we did effectively cut and run -- the Marines moved underground into bunkers. And then they moved -- were deployed, redeployed on to ships offshore. And then they sailed away. But it showed that extremist tactics can be effective in intimidating nations to leave. Israel withdrew first after a three-year presence deeper inside Lebanon back to an area across the border, in, largely, almost totally in response to extremist tactics used, suicide bombings, by Hezbollah and other militant groups, and then, several years later, withdrew from Lebanon altogether.
It was the only country Israel has ever withdrawn from without a security pact or a peace agreement. And it was in response to this kind of extremism that took its -- had its beginnings in 1983.
BROWN: Now flash forward to today. Are the policy-makers -- certainly the policy-makers are aware of what happened 20 years ago. Some of them were young decision-makers at the time. Do you think it's a lesson learned by the American government?
WRIGHT: No.
We clearly haven't learned enough about what spawns Islamic extremism, how to deal with it politically, as well as militarily. What's happened to Hezbollah in the interceding 20 years is very interesting, how it's evolved. There are a lot of lessons to be learned. One of the tragic ironies is that we didn't respond way back then. And the man believed to be responsible, widely linked by U.S. intelligence and others to this bombing, is a man Imad Mughniyeh, who today is still out there. And he's one of the 22 most wanted on the terrorism list.
And he's the one who has been there much longer. Osama bin Laden learned his tactics from what was used by Imad Mughniyeh much earlier.
BROWN: Robin, it's good to see you. Thank you for your perspective tonight on this. It doesn't seem like 20 years ago.
Thank you. Good to see you.
WRIGHT: Thank you.
BROWN: Robin Wright.
Still to come on the program, we'll go back to the case of Terri Schiavo. Should the Florida governor have gotten involved at all? We'll look at the medicine of this, and the ethics, too.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Much more NEWSNIGHT ahead: morning papers of course; also tonight, the story of America's eco-terrorists; and, up next, more on the case of Terri Schiavo.
A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A bit more now on the case of Terri Schiavo, her life and prospects, the two factors at the heart of the matter, but also a third, which is hope, something that facts persuade her husband to let go of and her parents to cling to.
We want to step back a bit from both sides for a moment. We're joined by Dr. Joseph Fins, who is the director of medical ethics at New York Weill Cornell Medical Center here in Manhattan.
It's good to have you here.
We hear this term used about her condition, a persistent vegetative state. What does that mean, in a sense? Does that show up on a brain scan?
DR. JOSEPH FINS, NEW YORK WEILL CORNELL MEDICAL CENTER: Well, it's a diagnosis that's made based on the history of the kind of history a patient had, a clinical exam, and imaging studies. But, essentially, it's a permanent loss of consciousness.
And what we see, with the eyes blinking and the sleep/wake cycles, are basically reflexes of the lower part of the brain, the brain stem, that still is alive.
BROWN: Because, you know, each side has their own experts, I guess.
FINS: Right.
BROWN: And so, is it the kind of condition that is ambiguous? FINS: There are strict criteria for the vegetative state.
And I think what's important is that the courts have heard the evidence of experts and the courts have ruled that she's in a vegetative state. And I don't think these are diagnoses one makes by watching clips on the Internet. The legislators in Florida aren't medically trained. And I think that, if you saw this and you had an untrained eye, you could construe meaning when there really wasn't any.
BROWN: Because, as you know, that is what the parents say. They say that she reacts, she laughs, she cries.
(CROSSTALK)
FINS: And your heart goes out to them.
BROWN: Absolutely. We talked to her dad last night.
What is it they're seeing, in a sense?
FINS: They're seeing reflexes.
The part of the brain that allows you to breathe and your heart to beat without us thinking about it is the part of the brain that's causing these reflexes. They're autonomous. But it doesn't indicate evidence of understanding, awareness of the environment, intentionality. And so, without education, it can really cause people to ascribe meaning and hope, when there really isn't any.
BROWN: I know you have talked to some of the doctors who have looked at her. Is this notion that she could in some way be rehabilitated just the sort of notion that parents cling to, but has no basis?
FINS: I wish it were otherwise. But she has been in this state for 13 years after the worst kind of injury. And that is the deprivation of oxygen.
BROWN: I want to talk about the implications of what the Florida legislature did. And whatever you may think of it, they did it very quickly, without hearings. This was reflexive, almost. You concerned?
FINS: I'm very concerned.
And, in fact, they sidestepped the judicial process. We have courts to make difficult judgments, to hear the evidence. There is no way they could have heard the evidence. And they're not part of our judicial system to hear the evidence. That's why we have the courts. They're also not trained as physicians. So it's a real violation in the sense of one's civil liberties and due process.
BROWN: If there were a document, if she had signed a document, do you think we would be having this conversation?
FINS: Less likely. And, in fact, in the Cruzan case in 1990, Sandra Day O'Connor, in her opinion, said, wouldn't it be...
BROWN: This is the case.
FINS: The ultimate right-to-die case of another woman in a vegetative state, where the Supreme Court said that you can remove food and water. She said, wouldn't it be good if we had known what Nancy Beth Cruzan would have wanted? And she came up with the idea that became law for advanced directives.
But it's ironic. That was 1990, the same year that Terri Schiavo had her accident.
BROWN: Just a final question, because this comes out a lot. When we take the feeding tube out of someone in this condition, do they suffer?
FINS: No, because they're already unconscious permanently.
BROWN: So, in either case, they feel no pain.
FINS: That's right. And that's a blessing.
BROWN: It's nice to meet. Thanks for coming in very much.
FINS: Thank you very much.
BROWN: It's such an awful set of circumstances there, all of it. Thank you.
Quickly, a few more items before we go to break here, starting with hope, cautious hope, but hope just the same, for women with hard- to-treat breast cancer, a vaccine. Researchers today presented the results of an early study. It shows the vaccine which uses bits of tumor protein triggered an immune response that helped kill the cancer cells.
Doctor, I should have you read this.
That said, doctors caution, this is just an early study of a very experimental therapy. But we'll take good news where we can find it.
To western Washington state, where the rivers have started to recede, but houses are still swamped, residents without clean drinking water. Record rainfall to blame, which, for that part of the world, would mean a lot of rain, five inches yesterday at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. It let up a bit today. The forecast for tonight and tomorrow, however, calls for more rain. They don't get big heavy rains much out there.
And the captain of the Staten Island ferry that crashed last week has been suspended, this after he refused for a second day to meet with federal investigators. The city would like to fire him.
And, finally, Tony Renna, the racer, died today of injuries sustained in a crash at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Mr. Renna crashed in turn three. He was traveling upwards of 200 miles an hour. He became the 40th driver to die at Indy since the racetrack opened nearly 100 years ago.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: terrorists at home, destruction in the name of saving the planet.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: From out West, this is a story of ends and means and a certain kind of extremism cropping up around the country these days.
The people at the center of this, the Earth Liberation Front, apparently believe that extremism in the defense of environment is no vice. And some would say, extremism is a gentle way of describing their work.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): This is what's left of four upscale homes under construction just north and west of San Diego.
WILLIAM LANSDOWNE, SAN DIEGO POLICE CHIEF: It's the wrong thing to do. It's criminal. There's no excuse for it.
BROWN: This is the fire that destroyed a $50 million apartment house complex just a few miles away.
DANIEL DZWILEWSKI, FBI: This clearly is an act of terrorism. And this is what this group is attempting to do.
BROWN: And these are the remains of dozens of luxury SUVs in suburban Los Angeles after fires and vandals destroyed or damaged them, all a result, the FBI says, of one thing, what it calls domestic terrorism.
ROD CORONADO, ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST: I fully condone any action that takes effort to impact the bottom line of corporations that are making a living out of killing our environment and killing our Earth.
BROWN: Authorities are convinced that responsibility for what happened over the late summer in Southern California lies with radical environmentalists, in particular, the Earth Liberation Front, a group which believes it cannot get its message across by any other means.
CORONADO: I think when you destroy bulldozers that are destroying the desert or machinery that's destroying the last of old- growth forests of our country, then these are actions that are every bit as similar to those taken by patriots in the Boston Tea Party. They're not popular in this time. But 50 years from now, I think we will see the significance of such actions.
BROWN: Ron Coronado is not, he says, a member of the Earth Liberation Front, the ELF. But he has served time in a federal prison, after pleading guilty to an arson fire at Michigan State University back in the early '90s, a fire that destroyed decades worth of research on minks. CORONADO: It's a pretty serious step. Obviously, the people who are carrying out these actions are doing so well aware that they face years in prison if they should be captured.
BROWN: Here in San Diego, where builders say they have lost years and years of development time, not to mention money, there is anger and outrage.
PAUL TRYON, SAN DIEGO BUILDING INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION: You finally get to the point where you can pull a building permit and start to construct a home for a family, and some criminal comes in here as a coward in the middle of the night and burns that home to the ground. They have every right to be angry. And they are angry.
BROWN: Authorities say they are making progress in their investigations. This man was arrested in connection with the destruction of the SUVs, but later released.
For their part, the activists say the fires and the destruction will not stop.
CORONADO: I hope they don't. It saddens me and sickens me to have to sick back and watch my homeland be destroyed, as it is here in Arizona. And any action that slows that destruction, I fully support.
DZWILEWSKI: They are plain and simple anarchists. They, again, advocates this use of violence to further their cause. I believe that it's only a matter of time before the people that were responsible for this will be caught.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The eco-terrorists.
We'll take a break, and then your favorite, morning papers.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Every now and then, the rooster amuses me. And sometimes it annoys me.
Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. And they will be from around the world, because we'll lead with "The Australian," which, as you probably figured out, is an Australian newspaper. Right over here, "W." -- that would be the president -- "W. Drops in For Barby With John." The would be John Howard, the prime minister. I can't imagine an American paper calling the president "George." But maybe I'm wrong about that. Anyway, that's the big story in Australia today, understandably.
"The Dayton Daily News." We choose that because I was in Dayton last week making a talk. I like the local story here, too. "Charters" -- charter schools -- "Still Behind District." This is a critical battle for the city of Dayton to make people believe in the school system there. And the challengers, the charter schools, not doing as well, according to this story, as the city schools. So we hope -- we wish them well there.
A lot of newspapers front-page the Rumsfeld memo that Jamie McIntyre reported on. It's interesting to see how they've headlined it.
"The Hartford Courant," Hartford, Connecticut. "War on Terror: A Blunt Review. Rumsfeld Missive Turning Heads." Fair enough, we would say. A couple of others we'll get to. "The Chattanooga Times Free Press." Man, that's a mouthful, isn't it? "Rumsfeld Memo Questions Terror Fight," a little edgier headline there.
"The San Antonio Express-News," two stories here I like, three, actually. "Are We Winning the Terror War?" That's how they headline the Rumsfeld memo. I think this is a really good story idea: "Right- to-Life Gets New Life. Conservative Victories on Abortion, Florida Death Case Has Pro-Abortion-Rights Supporters Worried." They've just taken a larger view of these two issues that have happened, these two stories that have happened this week and turned it into a nice front- page speech.
Also, I like this one. "Tuition at UTSA" -- University of Texas, San Antonio -- "May Soar By 20 Percent." This is a story that NEWSNIGHT did, what, several weeks, a month, maybe more, ago.
"Rumsfeld Pessimistic in Memo on Terrorism" headlines "The San Francisco Chronicle" in San Francisco. California, also, governor- elect Schwarzenegger, "Governor-elect Lands in the Capital." We talked about doing that story today, but we ended up not doing it today, as I guess you figured out by now.
Twenty seconds, really? Well, let's just cut to the chase, then, if I can find the chase. "The Chicago Sun-Times." "Rumsfeld Warns of Hard Slog Vs. Al Qaeda." And the weather tomorrow in Chicago is "zesty." And for my money, that means it's cold.
That's our report for tonight. We're all back tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you are as well.
Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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Reinserted; Bush Continues Asian Tour>
Aired October 22, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
The program tonight seems tied up as much in history as the day's news. There is tape from four years ago of two young men. Their names, we suspect, mostly now forgotten who would become the Columbine killers.
And we revisit again tonight the story of Terri Schiavo whose heart stopped beating briefly though long enough to do great damage 13 years ago. The fight over her life is mired in disputes over the nature of her condition, her treatment all these years and her own wishes.
And then there is Beirut, 20 years ago tomorrow the Marine barracks were bombed in that city as good a marker as we can think of for the start of the campaign of terror against the United States.
In each of these cases there are lessons, some learned, some not, lessons we'll look at tonight.
We begin with the latest twists and turns in the D.C. sniper trial, Jeanne Meserve starts the whip from Virginia Beach, Virginia, Jeanne a headline please.
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, it's another trip through the looking glass at the trial of John Muhammad. Two days after firing his defense team, Muhammad brings them back abandoning his effort to represent himself -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeanne thank you, back to you at the top.
Now back to the case of Terri Schiavo, in Florida John Zarrella continues his reporting there, John a headline.
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, her feeding tube reinserted and Terri Schiavo rehydrated. The 39-year-old woman is back tonight at the hospice she left only 24 hours ago -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
Now down under to Australia where President Bush continues his Asian tour, our Senior White House Correspondent John King tonight or should we say tomorrow morning, John a headline from you.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president among friends here in Australia the final stop of his Asia trip but even here dissent, protests inside and outside as the president addresses Australia's parliament and once again justifies his decision to go to war in Iraq -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
And finally to the Pentagon where Donald Rumsfeld's candor continues on full display, Jamie McIntyre on what the defense secretary said this time, Jamie the headline.
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CHIEF PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, this little piece of paper here is what is called a snowflake by Donald Rumsfeld's staff. It's a short, to the point, memo designed to spur his staff to action but this particular snowflake has prompted a blizzard of criticism about whether Rumsfeld is as candid as he ought to be in public.
BROWN: Jamie, thank you, we'll get back to you tonight, all the rest as well.
Also coming up on the program the lessons of Beirut 20 years later, reporter Robin Wright was there that awful day and joins us tonight to talk about the lessons learned or not.
And later terror here at home, eco-terror, who are the people attacking car dealerships and construction sites?
And, of course, the highlight of every program something to crow about for sure, morning papers comes your way as well, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin tonight with the sniper trial and no surprise here, another surprise. After two days representing himself and, according to legal experts, all but committing suicide by jury, John Muhammad changed his mind and in keeping with the tenor of developments so far this one unfolded somewhat strangely too.
Here again, CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE (voice-over): A toothache causes another turn in the topsy turvy trial of John Muhammad. Muhammad asked that Peter Greenspun and Jonathan Shapiro again lead his defense after complaining of an abscessed tooth.
In a bench conference, Judge Leroy Millette asked: "Are you making this decision solely because of your physical problem or because you think it's in your best interest to have them represent you?" Muhammad replied, "the latter." His attorneys expressed relief.
JONATHAN SHAPIRO, MUHAMMAD'S ATTORNEY: You don't know how emotional it is for a lawyer with death on the table to be sidelined in deference to a defendant's right to represent himself.
MESERVE: Observers said it looked like Muhammad had gotten a dose of reality.
ABBE SMITH, GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER: I think he realized when he was out there on the hot seat that he could use some help.
MESERVE: There was testimony about a September 21st shooting outside a Montgomery, Alabama liquor store that killed one woman and wounded another.
KELLIE ADAMS, SNIPER VICTIM: The bullet went in the back of my neck, came out right here in the front of my face. My left vocal chord was paralyzed.
MESERVE: In court, Kellie Adams still spoke with difficulty. As she left the stand she took long side long glances at Muhammad.
James Gray described chasing a man from the scene and coming face-to-face with him in an alley. His eyes were big and round, he said, "and they looked like he was in some kind of a frenzy. When I saw his eyes he scared me." Malvo was brought into the room. Gray said "that's him" and broke down in tears.
The victim of an earlier shooting at a Maryland liquor store also positively identified Malvo but backed off under cross-examination. The victim, Mohammed Rashid, hung his head overcome with emotion as he heard himself yelling "I am dying" on a 911 tape made the night of the shooting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MESERVE: Lee Malvo appeared three times in court today so witnesses could identify him. During one appearance when the jury was not in the room Muhammad gestured to him with his arm. Malvo saw him but did not respond -- Aaron.
BROWN: There's a theory out there and maybe there's a question in this somewhere that Mr. Muhammad's days of representing himself might have helped him a bit in that he was able to portray himself in front of the jury as human.
MESERVE: He was. He got up and he gave an opening statement and then, as you know, conducted several cross-examinations. He was very polite to everyone he spoke to, was fairly lawyerly in his general approach and got to put out some ideas about himself and his theories of what happened during the sniper shootings and he will never have to undergo cross-examination. So potentially it's a win for him.
Now, was this choreographed? I could say certainly not by his defense attorneys. I watched their faces that morning two days ago when they were removed from the case. They were shell shocked by that development. I watched their faces again today. They were very happy to be back on this case -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeanne, thank you very much, Jeanne Meserve in Virginia Beach.
On to Florida and what predictably and sadly enough has turned out to be neither a happy ending in the case of Terri Schiavo nor especially promising for a start either. Today saw her back on life support, a feeding tube back with questions of what kind of life it is still unsettled and no end to the friction between her parents and her husband.
Again, here's CNN's John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA (voice-over): Terri Schiavo was returned to the hospice where she spent the last three years after only 24 hours in a Clearwater hospital. Rehydrated and with her feeding tube reinserted her husband's attorney said Schiavo was stabilized and could be moved.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's extremely frustrating today. We've been sitting around waiting all day to find out what's going on, how my sister is doing, if we can visit her and we've been getting no information at all.
ZARRELLA: The battle over whether Terri Schiavo remains on life support centers on one pivotal question. Can the brain-damaged woman be rehabilitated? During an interview last year her husband said it was impossible.
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, HUSBAND: She recognizes nobody. She has no brain left basically.
ZARRELLA: But her family insists that's not what they see.
SUZANNE CARR, SCHIAVO'S SISTER: If she acts the way she does now with no therapy I mean I see there's definitely a light for her at the end of the tunnel.
ZARRELLA: A year ago the court conducted an evidentiary hearing. Two medical experts for each side were brought in, along with a court- appointed doctor. The exams were documented on video.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Terri, can you look at me.
ZARRELLA: But the exams didn't settle the dispute. Doctors representing the family said there was hope. Doctors representing her husband, along with the court-appointed doctor said there wasn't.
DR. PETER BAMBAKIDIS, COURT-APPOINTED NEUROLOGIST: Unfortunately, I know of no single treatment or combination of treatments that could result in any meaningful improvement in her current situation.
ZARRELLA: It was following this hearing the court declared Terri Schiavo in a "persistent vegetative state" meaning her responses are not cognitive and her movements are not voluntary.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZARRELLA: Now late this afternoon both sides were ordered to come to agreement on the appointment of a guardian for Terri as per the new Florida state law. The judge has given the two sides five days to come to an agreement. If they can't agree, and they haven't agreed on much the past ten years, the judge will appoint his own guardian -- Aaron.
BROWN: And is it clear what the guardian's role and responsibility will be?
ZARRELLA: It certainly is not clear because Michael Schiavo, her husband, will still remain in charge. He will still be able to make the decisions. The only decision he can't make any longer is whether to pull the life supporting feeding tube from her. The guardian that will be appointed will be reporting back to the governor and the chief judge but as far as we're told that's about the only role that the guardian ad litem will play -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you very much, John Zarrella in Florida tonight.
We'll talk a bit more about the facts of Ms. Schiavo's condition as well as the ethical implications of what the Florida legislature has done. Dr. John Fins, an expert in these issues, joins us. That's a little bit later in the program tonight.
First a story that raised a familiar sort of chill as we learned of it tonight. The early bulletins mentioned a postal facility, a sealed envelope traces of ricin, one of the deadliest poisons known to man. Left unsaid the who, the why and whether this would seem to be in some way connected with terrorism.
Tonight it looks like the answer to that last question is no but the ricin is real and investigators who have been working on this case since last Thursday have a number of leads to follow, reporting for us tonight CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Federal authorities called it a precaution when they closed a postal handling airmail facility at the Greenville, South Carolina Airport. The Centers for Disease Control confirmed Tuesday night a package found last week at the facility contained trace amounts of the deadly toxin ricin.
BILL BROWN, U.S. POSTAL SERVICE: There is no indication at all that any of the substance inside the envelope was on the outside at any time so everything was contained inside the envelope.
MATTINGLY: So well contained that authorities are downplaying any threat to public health as well as any connection to terrorism but they are investigating an apparent case of criminal extortion.
Authorities tell CNN the ricin came with an angry unsigned note. One investigator tells CNN the anger is directed at legislation regulating the trucking industry but who the recipient of the package was supposed to be has not been disclosed. An FBI official did say the demand is not for money and that the note contains significant leads. About 60 people work at the Greenville facility. It's believed only two or three came in contact with the package and no one is showing any ill effects.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: Nonetheless, the facility will remain closed until testing is complete at least through tomorrow -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, they had this since Thursday. Do we know how it came to be known today or tonight?
MATTINGLY: That is the first half of this big mystery. No one knows exactly how it got to the facility. The postal workers are being credited and their training is being credited with them being able to spot what they called a suspicious envelope.
They separated it from what they were looking at and they have procedures there to take care of this and they say that the postal workers were able to spot it and that's where this all got started.
BROWN: David thanks a lot, David Mattingly tonight.
It has been four years since the Columbine shootings and today the killings and the shooters return in a fresh and painful way. Tapes of the two killers shooting some of the guns they would later turn on their classmates and teachers were released.
It is almost certain to reopen old wounds and some might argue there is little news value in it all. Just the same it is another piece of a puzzle of these two young men and how they came to be.
Here's CNN's Brian Cabell.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BRIAN CABELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): March 6, 1999, six weeks before the Columbine High School massacre, the two teenage killers Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were practicing, practicing with their weapons in a national forest not far from the high school.
It was a seemingly light-hearted outing for the two boys shooting up bowling pins and trees, getting acquainted with the guns they'd later use for deadly purposes.
Accompanying Harris and Klebold were two men convicted of supplying them with the guns Mark Manes and Phillip Duran. The tape shows that some of the weapons had been illegally modified.
The video was released by the Jefferson County, Colorado Sheriff's Department after a Columbine task force urged them to do so. Officials say it's something the public should see.
What the tape doesn't tell us is the motive behind the horrific assault on the high school April 20, 1999. The boys killed 12 classmates, a teacher and then themselves. Several others were wounded.
Harris and Klebold were intelligent youngsters from middle-class two-parent families but they apparently considered themselves outcasts at school. What this tape does confirm is that the massacre was not the result of a sudden impulsive decision. They practiced killing before they actually did it.
Brian Cabell, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, an update on the president's Asia trip. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King joins us.
Then the Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and the memo, a grim outlook or necessary questions, it depends on who you ask.
And later tonight, American Marines as targets of terror, Lebanon 20 years ago tomorrow, the barracks bombing and the lessons learned or forgotten.
A break first, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld recently did what he counseled fellow CEOs to do back in private life, he cut to the chase. Speaking bluntly and realistically he outlined the challenges facing his organization, in this case the Pentagon, where Iraq and Afghanistan are concerned.
But unlike at Fortune 500 companies internal memos from government agencies often leak and this one most definitely not intended for public consumption is now the subject of intense public debate.
Here again, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE (voice-over): The memo, Rumsfeld's critics charge it's a smoking gun.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D), MINORITY LEADER: I think Secretary Rumsfeld's comments are an illustration of the concern that they have about the failure of their policies in Iraq so far.
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld says it's just his way of managing a slow moving bureaucracy.
DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: The reason I write those things is and ask questions is because I find it a useful thing to do.
MCINTYRE: A grim outlook is how "USA Today" characterized the memo, which the newspaper was the first to report in a front page story. Nonsense, responds the Pentagon. GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINTS CHIEF CHAIRMAN: What you're seeing in this memo I think is the way we do business is our boss is -- challenges us with a lot of questions.
MCINTYRE: The Pentagon argues nothing in the memo contradicts what Rumsfeld has said in public but in the internal document, meant only for his closest deputies, Rumsfeld is far more candid in expressing dissatisfaction on many fronts.
"A long hard slog" is how Rumsfeld portrays the prospects in Iraq and Afghanistan. "We have not yet made truly bold moves" he writes of transforming the Pentagon to fight terrorism. He complains about the lack of measures "to know if we are winning or losing the global war on terror" and concedes "mixed results" in the battle against al Qaeda.
Rumsfeld also states flatly he can't change the Pentagon fast enough to successfully fight the war on terrorism and suggests it might be time to fashion a new institution to refocus the effort.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld's aides insist the memo is just a reflection of his management style in which he is often prodding his staff to think unconventionally.
The White House voiced support for him today. A spokesman traveling with President Bush in Australia saying that this is exactly the sort of thing a strong and capable defense secretary ought to be doing -- Aaron.
BROWN: It is not simply the words, at least as I read it, but the tone when he says, you know, we've had mixed results where al Qaeda is concerned. That's not something the administration has wanted to say or has said publicly.
MCINTYRE: I know but I think if you scrutinize exactly what Rumsfeld has said, certainly it's obvious they haven't captured Osama bin Laden. They haven't captured Saddam Hussein, top on the list or Mullah Omar. That's a mixed result and I don't think Rumsfeld has suggested any differently.
Clearly, in his public appearances he's trying to highlight the positive but in this memo he's basically telling his top people that he wants them to think of other ways and other approaches of how they can do things better and isn't that what you'd want the defense secretary to be doing?
BROWN: Let me ask you one more thing. Why do you think it was leaked?
MCINTYRE: Good question. You know we don't know the motivation of the leakers because we weren't the recipient of the initial leak and people can leak for all kinds of reasons.
It appears on the surface that somebody wanted to embarrass Rumsfeld but it's also kind of interesting because you could make the case that this memo actually makes him look like he's firmly in charge and has a good grasp of what the real challenges are.
So, the Pentagon was trying to spin it in a fashion today that would indicate that this memo reflected well on Rumsfeld. We don't really know why they leaked it.
BROWN: I'll buy that too. I don't either but it's a fascinating question if nothing else. Thank you, Jamie, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.
If it's Wednesday or Thursday remember the International Date Line, it must be Australia for President Bush. After a swing through the Asian-Pacific that caused a diplomatic ripple or two, the president landed today on somewhat firmer ground.
Our Senior White House Correspondent has been with the president on the whole trip and joins us again tonight from the Australian capital, John King, good evening.
KING: Good evening or good morning from Canberra.
Aaron it has been a very interesting trip so perhaps not a surprise that we have a very interesting final overseas stop for President Bush. He's here in Australia to say thank you, especially to Prime Minister John Howard among the earliest leaders to step out and endorse the president's policy of regime change in Iraq. Prime Minister Howard, of course, also sent some combat troops into Iraq, so Mr. Bush meeting with Prime Minister Howard to say thanks.
Shortly after this bilateral meeting, Mr. Bush got a taste of the parliamentary system and a reminder firsthand that it can sometimes get a bit rowdy when his close friends, like Prime Minister Howard or Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair have to go before the parliament for question time.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Senator Brown will excuse himself from the House. Senator Brown will excuse himself from the House. The sergeant will remove Senator Brown from the House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Mr. Bush interrupted there by one Green Party member of the Australian Parliament. A bit later in the speech he was interrupted by another Green Party member.
Their chief criticism of this president that he overstated the intelligence, the case for going to war in Iraq, their main criticism though that Mr. Bush led Great Britain and led Australia into a way without the blessing of the United Nations. Mr. Bush in his speech directly addressing that criticism saying in his view the United Nations left him no choice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The resolution to the world if they are to be more ink on paper they must be enforced. If the institutions of the world are to be more than debating societies it must eventually act. If the world promises serious consequences for the defiance of the lawless then serious consequences must follow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: Outside the parliament protests as well. We should say perhaps politely John Howard's critics not so subtle in making their case that he has been subservient to President Bush in the war in Iraq. This is a stop again for the president to say thank you.
He said in an extended conversation with reporters aboard Air Force One last night that he considers this trip to be a great success but even here in a country that stands steadfastly with the United States another reminder that this president's world view and his foreign policy, not just when it comes to Iraq, are open to some criticism around the world -- Aaron.
BROWN: When we all step back, when you get home and everyone rests up, what's the lead on this weeklong trip? Was it North Korea or is it something else?
KING: I think the lead will be North Korea, especially if Mr. Bush is right in saying that the Chinese President Hu Jintao will stand shoulder-to-shoulder with him in making clear to North Korea that it will not get a one-on-one treaty with the United States and that it either must choose to defy the world and all of its neighbors or enter into another round of those six-party negotiations.
One other interesting moment, the president sitting down in Bali, Indonesia yesterday face-to-face with Muslim clerics who told him that anti-American sentiment is fomented in this part of the world, especially among Muslims because of his policy in the Middle East. Mr. Bush insists that his policy is fair but he got a firsthand glimpse of why so many Muslims in a terrorist hotbed Indonesia don't believe him -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you, travel safely home, John King in Australia tonight.
Coming up on the program American Marines under terror attack in this case Lebanon 20 years ago tomorrow. We'll look at the event and we'll talk with Robin Wright who was in Beirut that day when it happened.
We'll take a break first. From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Iraq may not be the central front in the war on terror, as President Bush described it back in September but that war, most experts agree, really began with a series of events back in 1983. Twenty years ago tomorrow, terrorists drove a truck loaded with explosives into the Marine barracks in Beirut. The resulting blast took 241 lives and created fallout that continues today.
In a moment we'll talk about the lessons taught that horrible day, first how it looked as CNN's Jim Clancy reported the story October 23, 1983.
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JIM CLANCY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rescue crews tore through tons of concrete and steel throughout the day Sunday in efforts to reach an undisclosed number of U.S. Marines and sailors who were still alive in what used to be the command post for American forces in Lebanon.
The blast came shortly after 6:15 in the morning. Six hours later Colonel Timothy Gerrity (ph), commander of the Marine contingent of the multinational peacekeeping force described how it happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A truck loaded with high explosives crashed through two barricades in front of the Italian landing team headquarters. That's adjacent to the terminal building here at Beirut International Airport. It went through two barricades, around another, and ended up in the lobby of the main complex that houses the headquarters of the battalion landing team.
CLANCY: Bodies of the victims and the wounded were ferried by helicopter to U.S. and Italian ships offshore that provided emergency medical treatment. The Marine command post was just a block from the terminal at Beirut International Airport.
The fact that many Marines and sailors were known to be still buried under all of the debris led credence to predictions that the toll of dead and wounded would go much higher. The reaction of Lebanese and American rescue teams was swift but because of the devastation it was a difficult process of finding and freeing the victims.
About three miles north, in west Beirut, an almost identical rescue effort was under way to reach more than 75 people who were trapped beneath what was once the headquarters of the French forces in Lebanon. The French, like the Americans, had come here to keep the peace. The grim faces of soldiers who surrounded the area was an assessment of the price being paid to that commitment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These kind of things just harden our resolve in that we will continue to do what we came here to do. And that is to provide assistance for a free and independent Lebanon.
CLANCY: It was not clear how long either of the rescue operations would take, but there was nothing more that could be done that was not already being carried out. There was only hope and prayers that any of those who survived and were buried underneath it all could be reached in time.
Jim Clancy, CNN, Beirut.
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BROWN: Within six months of the attack, most of the American troops were pulled out of Lebanon. And for two decades, American policy-makers and terrorist leaders, too, take cues from what happened there.
We're joined tonight by journalist Robin Wright, who was in Beirut 20 years ago when the barracks was bombed. She's the author of "Sacred Rage: The Wrath of Militant Islam." And she joins us again tonight from Washington.
It's always nice to see you.
Just briefly, because there are so many things to talk about, what do you remember about the day?
ROBIN WRIGHT, AUTHOR, "SACRED RAGE": Oh, I'll never forget it, the enormous explosion that literally ripped through all of Beirut.
I was five, six miles away, and I'll never forget being awakened by a really thunderous explosion that rattled windows a long distance from where the two bombs went off at the American and French compounds.
BROWN: You said today earlier, everyone knew it was going to happen. Who was everyone and what did they know was going to happen and what did they do to stop it?
WRIGHT: Well, Colonel Garrety (ph), who was the commander in Beirut at the time, had been ordered 34 days earlier to fire on a Muslim militia in Beirut.
He protested because the Americans had been deployed as peacekeepers, not to get engaged in what was then a raging civil war in Lebanon between Christians and Muslims, who were vying for a different division of power inside Lebanon. And he protested and said that, if the U.S. warships did open fire on the Muslim militias, that the American Marines would then become targets. And his direct quote was to the effect, "We'll get slaughtered down here."
And he was right. And everyone who lived in Beirut and knew the situation that well knew that the Marines were going to become a target. And that was the beginning, the most -- it was the most powerful non-nuclear explosion anywhere on Earth since World War II.
BROWN: I went back and listened to what President Reagan said after the attack. And he talked about, if we cut and run, the terrorists or the people -- I'm not sure he used the word terrorists, honestly -- the people who did this, the criminals who did this, will be emboldened.
I suppose you can argue whether six months is cutting and running, but that's certainly how it was perceived. Have the terrorists been emboldened? WRIGHT: Yes.
If you look at that whole period, it was a yearlong period where both two American embassies and the Marine compound were all destroyed by suicide bombers. Those were the first suicide bombers in the Middle East. This was a new tactic. The use of militant Islam, the emergence of Hezbollah was then a new type of political party. Only in Iran had you seen a kind of angry Islam become a political force.
But, even then, it was not used as a terrorist tactic. It was against another nation. Even if you look at the takeover of the American Embassy, that was a political act, in many ways. But this was pure terror. And so, these were the seeds that we now see having -- played out in so many countries in so many parts of the Islamic world.
BROWN: John Lehman, the former Navy secretary, is quoted today as saying: "There is no question it" -- the Beirut bombing -- "it was a major cause of 9/11. We told the world that terrorism succeeds."
Was that the lesson of Beirut?
WRIGHT: To a certain degree, yes.
It also showed that -- in part, because we did effectively cut and run -- the Marines moved underground into bunkers. And then they moved -- were deployed, redeployed on to ships offshore. And then they sailed away. But it showed that extremist tactics can be effective in intimidating nations to leave. Israel withdrew first after a three-year presence deeper inside Lebanon back to an area across the border, in, largely, almost totally in response to extremist tactics used, suicide bombings, by Hezbollah and other militant groups, and then, several years later, withdrew from Lebanon altogether.
It was the only country Israel has ever withdrawn from without a security pact or a peace agreement. And it was in response to this kind of extremism that took its -- had its beginnings in 1983.
BROWN: Now flash forward to today. Are the policy-makers -- certainly the policy-makers are aware of what happened 20 years ago. Some of them were young decision-makers at the time. Do you think it's a lesson learned by the American government?
WRIGHT: No.
We clearly haven't learned enough about what spawns Islamic extremism, how to deal with it politically, as well as militarily. What's happened to Hezbollah in the interceding 20 years is very interesting, how it's evolved. There are a lot of lessons to be learned. One of the tragic ironies is that we didn't respond way back then. And the man believed to be responsible, widely linked by U.S. intelligence and others to this bombing, is a man Imad Mughniyeh, who today is still out there. And he's one of the 22 most wanted on the terrorism list.
And he's the one who has been there much longer. Osama bin Laden learned his tactics from what was used by Imad Mughniyeh much earlier.
BROWN: Robin, it's good to see you. Thank you for your perspective tonight on this. It doesn't seem like 20 years ago.
Thank you. Good to see you.
WRIGHT: Thank you.
BROWN: Robin Wright.
Still to come on the program, we'll go back to the case of Terri Schiavo. Should the Florida governor have gotten involved at all? We'll look at the medicine of this, and the ethics, too.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Much more NEWSNIGHT ahead: morning papers of course; also tonight, the story of America's eco-terrorists; and, up next, more on the case of Terri Schiavo.
A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: A bit more now on the case of Terri Schiavo, her life and prospects, the two factors at the heart of the matter, but also a third, which is hope, something that facts persuade her husband to let go of and her parents to cling to.
We want to step back a bit from both sides for a moment. We're joined by Dr. Joseph Fins, who is the director of medical ethics at New York Weill Cornell Medical Center here in Manhattan.
It's good to have you here.
We hear this term used about her condition, a persistent vegetative state. What does that mean, in a sense? Does that show up on a brain scan?
DR. JOSEPH FINS, NEW YORK WEILL CORNELL MEDICAL CENTER: Well, it's a diagnosis that's made based on the history of the kind of history a patient had, a clinical exam, and imaging studies. But, essentially, it's a permanent loss of consciousness.
And what we see, with the eyes blinking and the sleep/wake cycles, are basically reflexes of the lower part of the brain, the brain stem, that still is alive.
BROWN: Because, you know, each side has their own experts, I guess.
FINS: Right.
BROWN: And so, is it the kind of condition that is ambiguous? FINS: There are strict criteria for the vegetative state.
And I think what's important is that the courts have heard the evidence of experts and the courts have ruled that she's in a vegetative state. And I don't think these are diagnoses one makes by watching clips on the Internet. The legislators in Florida aren't medically trained. And I think that, if you saw this and you had an untrained eye, you could construe meaning when there really wasn't any.
BROWN: Because, as you know, that is what the parents say. They say that she reacts, she laughs, she cries.
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FINS: And your heart goes out to them.
BROWN: Absolutely. We talked to her dad last night.
What is it they're seeing, in a sense?
FINS: They're seeing reflexes.
The part of the brain that allows you to breathe and your heart to beat without us thinking about it is the part of the brain that's causing these reflexes. They're autonomous. But it doesn't indicate evidence of understanding, awareness of the environment, intentionality. And so, without education, it can really cause people to ascribe meaning and hope, when there really isn't any.
BROWN: I know you have talked to some of the doctors who have looked at her. Is this notion that she could in some way be rehabilitated just the sort of notion that parents cling to, but has no basis?
FINS: I wish it were otherwise. But she has been in this state for 13 years after the worst kind of injury. And that is the deprivation of oxygen.
BROWN: I want to talk about the implications of what the Florida legislature did. And whatever you may think of it, they did it very quickly, without hearings. This was reflexive, almost. You concerned?
FINS: I'm very concerned.
And, in fact, they sidestepped the judicial process. We have courts to make difficult judgments, to hear the evidence. There is no way they could have heard the evidence. And they're not part of our judicial system to hear the evidence. That's why we have the courts. They're also not trained as physicians. So it's a real violation in the sense of one's civil liberties and due process.
BROWN: If there were a document, if she had signed a document, do you think we would be having this conversation?
FINS: Less likely. And, in fact, in the Cruzan case in 1990, Sandra Day O'Connor, in her opinion, said, wouldn't it be...
BROWN: This is the case.
FINS: The ultimate right-to-die case of another woman in a vegetative state, where the Supreme Court said that you can remove food and water. She said, wouldn't it be good if we had known what Nancy Beth Cruzan would have wanted? And she came up with the idea that became law for advanced directives.
But it's ironic. That was 1990, the same year that Terri Schiavo had her accident.
BROWN: Just a final question, because this comes out a lot. When we take the feeding tube out of someone in this condition, do they suffer?
FINS: No, because they're already unconscious permanently.
BROWN: So, in either case, they feel no pain.
FINS: That's right. And that's a blessing.
BROWN: It's nice to meet. Thanks for coming in very much.
FINS: Thank you very much.
BROWN: It's such an awful set of circumstances there, all of it. Thank you.
Quickly, a few more items before we go to break here, starting with hope, cautious hope, but hope just the same, for women with hard- to-treat breast cancer, a vaccine. Researchers today presented the results of an early study. It shows the vaccine which uses bits of tumor protein triggered an immune response that helped kill the cancer cells.
Doctor, I should have you read this.
That said, doctors caution, this is just an early study of a very experimental therapy. But we'll take good news where we can find it.
To western Washington state, where the rivers have started to recede, but houses are still swamped, residents without clean drinking water. Record rainfall to blame, which, for that part of the world, would mean a lot of rain, five inches yesterday at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport. It let up a bit today. The forecast for tonight and tomorrow, however, calls for more rain. They don't get big heavy rains much out there.
And the captain of the Staten Island ferry that crashed last week has been suspended, this after he refused for a second day to meet with federal investigators. The city would like to fire him.
And, finally, Tony Renna, the racer, died today of injuries sustained in a crash at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Mr. Renna crashed in turn three. He was traveling upwards of 200 miles an hour. He became the 40th driver to die at Indy since the racetrack opened nearly 100 years ago.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: terrorists at home, destruction in the name of saving the planet.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: From out West, this is a story of ends and means and a certain kind of extremism cropping up around the country these days.
The people at the center of this, the Earth Liberation Front, apparently believe that extremism in the defense of environment is no vice. And some would say, extremism is a gentle way of describing their work.
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BROWN (voice-over): This is what's left of four upscale homes under construction just north and west of San Diego.
WILLIAM LANSDOWNE, SAN DIEGO POLICE CHIEF: It's the wrong thing to do. It's criminal. There's no excuse for it.
BROWN: This is the fire that destroyed a $50 million apartment house complex just a few miles away.
DANIEL DZWILEWSKI, FBI: This clearly is an act of terrorism. And this is what this group is attempting to do.
BROWN: And these are the remains of dozens of luxury SUVs in suburban Los Angeles after fires and vandals destroyed or damaged them, all a result, the FBI says, of one thing, what it calls domestic terrorism.
ROD CORONADO, ENVIRONMENTAL ACTIVIST: I fully condone any action that takes effort to impact the bottom line of corporations that are making a living out of killing our environment and killing our Earth.
BROWN: Authorities are convinced that responsibility for what happened over the late summer in Southern California lies with radical environmentalists, in particular, the Earth Liberation Front, a group which believes it cannot get its message across by any other means.
CORONADO: I think when you destroy bulldozers that are destroying the desert or machinery that's destroying the last of old- growth forests of our country, then these are actions that are every bit as similar to those taken by patriots in the Boston Tea Party. They're not popular in this time. But 50 years from now, I think we will see the significance of such actions.
BROWN: Ron Coronado is not, he says, a member of the Earth Liberation Front, the ELF. But he has served time in a federal prison, after pleading guilty to an arson fire at Michigan State University back in the early '90s, a fire that destroyed decades worth of research on minks. CORONADO: It's a pretty serious step. Obviously, the people who are carrying out these actions are doing so well aware that they face years in prison if they should be captured.
BROWN: Here in San Diego, where builders say they have lost years and years of development time, not to mention money, there is anger and outrage.
PAUL TRYON, SAN DIEGO BUILDING INDUSTRY ASSOCIATION: You finally get to the point where you can pull a building permit and start to construct a home for a family, and some criminal comes in here as a coward in the middle of the night and burns that home to the ground. They have every right to be angry. And they are angry.
BROWN: Authorities say they are making progress in their investigations. This man was arrested in connection with the destruction of the SUVs, but later released.
For their part, the activists say the fires and the destruction will not stop.
CORONADO: I hope they don't. It saddens me and sickens me to have to sick back and watch my homeland be destroyed, as it is here in Arizona. And any action that slows that destruction, I fully support.
DZWILEWSKI: They are plain and simple anarchists. They, again, advocates this use of violence to further their cause. I believe that it's only a matter of time before the people that were responsible for this will be caught.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: The eco-terrorists.
We'll take a break, and then your favorite, morning papers.
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(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Every now and then, the rooster amuses me. And sometimes it annoys me.
Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. And they will be from around the world, because we'll lead with "The Australian," which, as you probably figured out, is an Australian newspaper. Right over here, "W." -- that would be the president -- "W. Drops in For Barby With John." The would be John Howard, the prime minister. I can't imagine an American paper calling the president "George." But maybe I'm wrong about that. Anyway, that's the big story in Australia today, understandably.
"The Dayton Daily News." We choose that because I was in Dayton last week making a talk. I like the local story here, too. "Charters" -- charter schools -- "Still Behind District." This is a critical battle for the city of Dayton to make people believe in the school system there. And the challengers, the charter schools, not doing as well, according to this story, as the city schools. So we hope -- we wish them well there.
A lot of newspapers front-page the Rumsfeld memo that Jamie McIntyre reported on. It's interesting to see how they've headlined it.
"The Hartford Courant," Hartford, Connecticut. "War on Terror: A Blunt Review. Rumsfeld Missive Turning Heads." Fair enough, we would say. A couple of others we'll get to. "The Chattanooga Times Free Press." Man, that's a mouthful, isn't it? "Rumsfeld Memo Questions Terror Fight," a little edgier headline there.
"The San Antonio Express-News," two stories here I like, three, actually. "Are We Winning the Terror War?" That's how they headline the Rumsfeld memo. I think this is a really good story idea: "Right- to-Life Gets New Life. Conservative Victories on Abortion, Florida Death Case Has Pro-Abortion-Rights Supporters Worried." They've just taken a larger view of these two issues that have happened, these two stories that have happened this week and turned it into a nice front- page speech.
Also, I like this one. "Tuition at UTSA" -- University of Texas, San Antonio -- "May Soar By 20 Percent." This is a story that NEWSNIGHT did, what, several weeks, a month, maybe more, ago.
"Rumsfeld Pessimistic in Memo on Terrorism" headlines "The San Francisco Chronicle" in San Francisco. California, also, governor- elect Schwarzenegger, "Governor-elect Lands in the Capital." We talked about doing that story today, but we ended up not doing it today, as I guess you figured out by now.
Twenty seconds, really? Well, let's just cut to the chase, then, if I can find the chase. "The Chicago Sun-Times." "Rumsfeld Warns of Hard Slog Vs. Al Qaeda." And the weather tomorrow in Chicago is "zesty." And for my money, that means it's cold.
That's our report for tonight. We're all back tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern time. We hope you are as well.
Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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