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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Fire Devastates Southern California; Suicide Bombers Kill 30 in Iraq; Interview With John Kerry
Aired October 27, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
We are in Washington tonight. Two firestorms occupy much of the program. The first in Southern California is both destructive and deadly but it is knowable and fightable and given enough men and machinery and money, and perhaps a little luck as well, it will be out and lives will go on, not easily and probably not soon, but normal will return to Southern California.
The other firestorm is in Iraq. It springs from unseen elements. It's driven by murky forces. The fire lines shift. They seem to be everywhere and nowhere at once, better to leave the impression that no one is safe. Fire lines are risky enough when you know where they are.
The whip begins tonight with the ones in Southern California and we start to the north of Los Angeles in Simi Valley and CNN's Martin Savidge, Marty a headline.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Aaron. The winds of Southern California have died down tonight. They have also changed direction. That means that what was once safe during the day could now be threatened tonight. The flames have reached historic proportions and no one can tell you tonight when or where they will be stopped -- Aaron.
BROWN: Marty, thank you. We'll get back to you at the top tonight.
On to the east and two fires that became one over the weekend, CNN's Frank Buckley in Devore, Frank a headline from you.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, those fires continue to burn in this region. Tonight more than 500 homes have been destroyed but when the winds would give them a break the firefighters fought back.
BROWN: Frank, thank you.
Flames are a threat clear to the Mexican border, CNN's David Mattingly in San Diego tonight, David a headline from you.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More help is on the way tonight to San Diego County where fires continue to burn after a devastating and deadly weekend -- Aaron. BROWN: David, thank you.
And finally to Iraq, a bloody day that followed a very difficult weekend, CNN's Jane Arraf has the watch, Jane a headline.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, a horrifying start to the Muslim holy month of Ramadan leaving 35 people dead, at least 230 wounded the highest casualty toll in Baghdad since the end of the war.
BROWN: Jane, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up on this Monday from Washington, President Bush tries to put a positive face on the explosion of violence in Iraq over the last 24 hours or so.
We'll talk with Massachusetts Senator John Kerry about his run for the presidency.
And later, fresh from its weekend hiatus, we hope the rooster will crow and bring with him to Washington some morning papers, top ten list coming up as well, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin in Southern California, which in many different ways is a mess tonight. Seen from space the entire Los Angeles basin, all of it, it looks like a smokestack emptying into the Pacific, the smoke coming from more than a dozen wildfires blown west by the hot and dry Santa Ana winds that are fanning them.
Down below more than 15 million people, most merely inconvenienced but for many it is much worse than that. Eight hundred families are homeless tonight, more than a dozen people have died and no one can say how or when this will end only that it may not be soon or soon enough.
But when all is said and done the damage will run into the billions and more stress will be placed on a state that financially, at least, is already stressed out a number of reports as we indicated Frank Buckley in Devore, David Mattingly in San Diego.
But we begin with CNN's Martin Savidge in Simi Valley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): It was another day of hell on earth in Simi Valley as Santa Ana winds fanned flames into a blowtorch searing mostly unchecked through the canyon landscape. For residents there was little to do but get out of the way.
This is the Indian Hills Trailer Park. Most people came here because the price was low and the views were beautiful. Now it's under a mandatory evacuation order.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm already all packed up, really nervous.
SAVIDGE: Kevin Harris is one of the holdouts. He's scared. You can hear it in his voice.
KEVIN HARRIS, RESIDENT: Deciding on whether to stay or go. We're packed up and ready to go but...
SAVIDGE: Why not just go?
HARRIS: It's kind of a tough decision, you know, because we could go and come back tomorrow and we might not have a house.
SAVIDGE: The question quickly becomes what do you take of your life when you only have 20 minutes? Here's what Corey is taking.
COREY BUSHELL, RESIDENT: Photographs, we have a big old bag of cassette tapes of the baby being born and everything.
SAVIDGE: A few doublewides down, Tina's list is about the same.
And what did you pack?
TINA ZINSKI, RESIDENT: Everything that matters.
SAVIDGE: And what is that? What does matter in the few minutes?
ZINSKI: Pictures, memories.
SAVIDGE: In the trailer park, 95 percent of the people have already left but they might be glad to know their mail is still going through, bills mostly.
A creepy calm settles in broken by the chatter of fire department radios and the buzzing of helicopters and planes. The firefighters watch the flames. They're getting closer. The planes are chasing the flames.
Eighteen-month-old Cassidy watches all of this from her front window. Fifteen minutes after we first talked to her mother the flames begin to peak over a nearby ridge. That's enough for Tina, Cassidy and the cat. They're leaving.
The wind still in the trailer park's favor for now, we watch, the firemen wait, and Kevin wonders what he'll have left in the morning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: And that trailer park is located in Los Angeles. Today the Simi Valley fire broke through a very important barrier that is Highway 118. It runs through Ventura County going from east to west. The flames have now dropped south of that. That means for the first time evacuations have been ordered in Los Angeles itself -- Aaron.
BROWN: We were out there, as you know Marty, for the last couple of days. This thing kept building and building. Is there any sense that the firefighters have pushed back at all or is it still the fire that's in control?
SAVIDGE: There are small victories that are made everywhere along the battlefield that is the front line of fire; however, they know it is only a small holding pattern. They need help from nature, help that may come in the middle of the week -- Aaron.
BROWN: And it comes because the winds die?
SAVIDGE: It's going to come, they hope, because of a number of factors. As you say, the wind should change and die down. Also, the temperature should drop significantly. We're talking maybe 20 degrees.
On top of that humidity levels will begin to rise. Put all those factors together. It will bring welcome relief. The only problem is the winds may not be blowing as forcefully allowing the fire to drift in almost any direction -- Aaron.
BROWN: Marty, thanks a lot, a long day for you, Martin Savidge in Simi Valley.
President Bush has declared parts of California major disaster area. It is certainly that. So, too, has California's Governor Gray Davis and he'll join us shortly.
For now we move down the coast and a bit inland to Devore near San Bernardino, east of Los Angeles where the fire came early and tonight many people are returning to places where they used to live, that story from CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY (voice-over): Helicopters hit the fire from the air. Firefighters fought back on the ground but in the fog of this war against two fires that merged into one in and around San Bernardino, more than 500 homes were destroyed.
This was once the childhood home of Annie Reese (ph). It had three bedrooms, 1,500 square feet, and a lifetime of memories.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Six years old I grew up here and I have lots of memories there but I mean I'm hurting. I mean my mom's out. I mean that's all that really matters.
BUCKLEY: Across the street Joshua Brooks collected his bills and assessed the damage to his home. Most of his home and many of his belongings survived but there's just enough damage...
JOSHUA BROOKS, RESIDENT: Look at the walls, see how hot it was, the ceiling and the walls.
BUCKLEY: ...to make living her impossible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I going to do with it now?
BUCKLEY: For 76-year-old Chuck Reed (ph) it wasn't his home that was damaged. It was fine. It was his collection of fully restored classic cars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty Cadillac Club Coupe.
BUCKLEY: Like his cherished Cadillac Club Coupe and the tools that he used to restore cars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, years of work. Now I haven't even got a hammer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And tonight more than 40,000 people remain under some level of an evacuation order in this region, Aaron. More than 4,000 firefighters are on the scene here and sadly three deaths have been attributed to these fires -- Aaron.
BROWN: Frank, thank you, Frank Buckley tonight in San Bernardino Valley.
Tonight's Monday night football game between the Miami Dolphins and the San Diego Chargers, as you may know, became an away game because of the fire. They moved it to Tempe, Arizona, the proceeds going to fire relief.
The stadium in San Diego tonight, somewhere under the smoke, is being used as an evacuation center. People who a few days ago might have thought it would be fun to be on the turf of an NFL stadium have learned that great lesson again. Be careful what you wish for.
Here's CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): San Diego's QUALCOMM Stadium was supposed to be buzzing in anticipation of the NFL's Monday night football game but instead of tailgaters the parking lot was full of emergency supplies and people forced out of their homes by wildfire.
DANI DAILY, VOLUNTEER: People just want to know. They also want to know is it their street, houses, and we don't have that information of specific addresses or specific streets where there is just total devastation.
MATTINGLY: The worst fires in San Diego County since 1970, 11 people were killed Sunday and hundreds of home destroyed as hot, dry Santa Ana winds whipped large brushfires across thousands of acres.
GEORGE LEWIS, EVACUEE: It was about five miles from my neighborhood and I could see the fire outside my living room. It was pretty scary.
MATTINGLY: George Lewis and his neighbors were among the lucky ones. They spent the night outside the stadium in campers. Others slept in cars.
BERRY FIECK, EVACUEE: The hardest part actually is the waiting and not knowing and, you know, not having any information. MATTINGLY: Much of San Diego remains under a thick cloud of brown smoke with powdery white ash continuing to fall, conditions that are leading to a rise in respiratory problems.
TAMMY SERVIES, VOLUNTEER PHYSICIAN: We're seeing respiratory distress people (unintelligible) are having difficulty breathing with all the soot in the air.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: And California Governor Gray Davis announcing tonight that more relief is on the way to San Diego County in the form of firefighters and equipment, of course everyone here hoping that translates to less property damage as these fires continue to burn -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you very much, David Mattingly tonight, part of the CNN team that is in Southern California.
We're joined now by California's Governor Gray Davis. He's in San Diego.
GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: Hi.
BROWN: Governor, it's good to have you with us. It's a horrible day. Any single impression more than any other today in your mind?
DAVIS: Aaron, just how positive people are here in San Diego. Last night in San Bernardino, a seven-year-old girl took me by the hand and we walked through the rubble of what was her home and she showed me her old room. She was positive. She was smiling. So was her father.
And I'm just determined to do everything I can to make sure she and everyone else who was harmed by this fire get the financial relief they need to put their lives back in order.
BROWN: And that's pretty much at this point all you can do. I saw earlier that you activated some National Guard units, is that correct?
DAVIS: We activated the National Guard. That's correct. They have eight helicopters that can help with the fires. The Highway Patrol is on 24-hour shifts. The health department is helping with respiratory problems, mental health department helping with the people traumatized by losing their homes.
I called the governors of Arizona and Nevada. They're each sending more fire trucks and more personnel to help us. So, we're doing everything we can to a) put out the fire and, b) help people put their lives back together.
BROWN: Any idea how many people have either been evacuated or are under evacuation orders tonight?
DAVIS: There are close to 1,000 homes that have been destroyed. Obviously, all those folks are sleeping somewhere else tonight, some in evacuation shelters, some with neighbors.
This is a very serious fire. San Diego has never had a fire as bad as this. That happens to be where I am now and the rest of California probably has to go back at least ten years to the last major fire of this significance.
BROWN: What do you need? Obviously a break in the weather is the only thing that will ultimately end this I suppose. What does the state need most right now?
DAVIS: We still need more firefighting resources to put this fire out. We are dependent, as some of your reporters suggested, on the weather. It looks like we may get a break midweek. After that we have to work our tails off to make sure that people who lost their homes or businesses don't have to wait forever for a check to allow them to rebuild.
And I impressed on Andrew Card, the president's chief of staff who I called last night around ten o'clock his time, how important it is to get people on the ground in California, one stop shops if you will. People can fill out all the forms they need and hopefully get a check early next week because that little girl I talked about earlier I'm sure in three or four days she's going to get awfully impatient to see work begin on rebuilding her home.
BROWN: Have you talked to the governor-elect about this by the way?
DAVIS: Yes. I talked to Governor-elect Schwarzenegger about 4:45 today. I've ordered that my Office of Emergency Services brief his team hourly. I asked him and he was happy to do this on his trip to Washington tomorrow to impress upon the Small Business Administration, to impress upon FEMA, get your tail out to California. Set up one stop shops and put money in the hands of people who deserve it.
BROWN: It's probably a little bit unseemly for us to talk about money but the fact is the state has terrific budget problems. Where's the money going to come from that portion that's state money? Where's it coming from?
DAVIS: Well, we're going to have to pay for our share of this disaster. Typically, the federal government pays about 75 to 90 percent of a disaster depending on what kind it is. That money happily is budgeted because the Congress knows someplace there's going to be an earthquake or a fire or a flood they have to deal with.
So, the money is there in Washington. The loans are available. Our job is to work collectively. We're all Americans now. We're not Republicans. We're not Democrats. We're all one team.
We've got to pull together to help the people that were hurt so badly out here in California and thus far I'm very pleased with the efforts of the federal government, the governors of my neighboring states, one a Republican, one a Democrat. I was with Mayor Murphy in San Diego today, a Republican. Everyone is pulling together. BROWN: Do you feel, sir, that in the last two days, Sunday and Monday, that the worst now is over or is it still getting a little bit worse each hour?
DAVIS: You know it's very hard to predict these fires. They've particularly in San Bernardino they've changed directions two or three times. In San Diego there wasn't a problem on Friday. There wasn't really much of a problem on Saturday and all hell broke loose here on Sunday.
So, it's really hard to predict what's going to happen with the fires. I hope by the end of the week that we have serious containment on all of them but we'll need some luck and some more equipment to do that.
BROWN: Well, we wish you both. We wish you lots of good luck.
DAVIS: Thank you.
BROWN: And we hope you get the equipment. Governor Davis, thank you. It's good to talk to you on a difficult night.
DAVIS: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: Gray Davis -- thank you, sir, Gray Davis in San Diego tonight.
Ahead on the program we'll get to the business in Iraq, the violence of the last day and a half, the Bush administration's take on what's happening there.
Later, a critic of the administration, someone who wants the president's job in fact, Massachusetts Senator and Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry joins us, more too.
This is NEWSNIGHT from Washington, D.C.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It's safe to say nobody sleeps easy in Baghdad these days, not the American administration which was rocked by a missile attack at the al-Rashid Hotel over the weekend as Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Defense Secretary paid a visit and not the people the United States is counting on to make life better for ordinary Iraqis, the police, the volunteers who came to Iraq to help. No one disputes these have been difficult days in Iraq, the why is the subject of some disagreement, first the what.
Here again, CNN's Jane Arraf.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARRAF (voice-over): They thought they were different. They weren't. The International Red Cross had rejected the concrete barriers and armed security of other organizations. They relied on their neutrality. Monday morning on the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan a suicide bomber detonated a medical supply truck with the symbol of the Red Crescent, the Islamic sister organization of the Red Cross.
(on camera): This is the last kind of security that the International Red Cross wanted to see in front of its headquarters but in the aftermath of this car bomb there will be a lot of questions about how to keep people safe in this city.
(voice-over): The blast killed two Iraqi International Red Cross workers, ten other people, and injured at least 20 more. Hours later, neighborhood residents were still finding body parts hundreds of yards away and the illusion that the symbol of a humanitarian organization could protect anyone had been shattered.
NADA DOUMANI, ICRC: It's the whole sign of protection that's put in question and when that detonated that the new world that we're living in that nothing anymore is respected.
ARRAF: In just two hours on Monday morning, as if to prove a point, three other suicide car bombs exploded at police stations in Baghdad. The driver of a fifth car bomb was shot before he could detonate it.
At least 34 people were killed and 220 wounded in the four attacks but senior U.S. military officials still tried to put a positive spin on the security situation.
BRIG. GEN. MARK HERTLING, U.S. ARMY: The reason three of the bombs have been directed at police stations is because I think these criminals realize that there's been a decrease in crime in Baghdad, that the force protection services and the Iraqi police are building up and they're securing the environment.
ARRAF: Some defense officials said the attacks had the hallmarks of "foreign fighters." Others said they were Ba'ath Party remnants. Residents we talked to didn't care who was behind it. They only knew that despite what some call a more secure environment they were feeling particularly insecure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARRAF: And in the wake of this, the International Red Cross, Aaron, is deciding how to go forward. They say they will continue their work here but they may likely do it with far fewer international staff -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, you spent a long time in Iraq. Is it your view that a suicide attack is the work of a Ba'ath Party follower or a foreign terrorist?
ARRAF: This is definitely a new Iraq, Aaron, with new rules. Now one thing is that under the Ba'ath Party, under Saddam there just weren't a lot of suicide bombers. There wasn't a lot of violence like this in general. The country was generally under such tight control, apart from a few scattered attempts at the Iraqi regime, that you didn't see this kind of thing.
Now they may have learned it along the way or it could very well be the influence or the assistance of foreign fighters who have come in through those borders and the borders to Iraq really are virtually wide open.
Even the officials we talk to, as you've seen, there's a variety of opinions among senior U.S. military officials but one thing they are saying is they don't have solid evidence on any of these attacks yet -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, thank you, Jane Arraf in Baghdad.
It's hard to put a good face on the attacks in Iraq and it's hard to argue they're getting undue coverage. After all a ranking administration official could well have died in the hotel attack and the attack on the Red Cross will not just be news here, it will be news around the world. But the president today saw a glass half full. The attacks are a sign of American progress, progress the country's enemies fear.
Here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With suicide bombers striking four times in 45 minutes in the Iraqi capital, with dozens of Iraqis dead and hundreds injured, with another U.S. soldier killed, President Bush is hard pressed to say things are going well but he insists the deadly attacks are a sign the insurgents are growing more desperate.
BUSH: The more jobs that are available, the more kids that are going to school, the more desperate these killers become because they can't stand the thought of a free society.
MCINTYRE: For the U.S. administrator in charge it was another day of urging Americans to keep events in perspective.
PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: We'll have rough days, such as we've had the last couple of days but the overall thrust is in the right direction and the good days outnumber the bad days.
MCINTYRE: Sunday was another bad day an audacious attack on the al-Rashid Hotel in Baghdad had all the earmarks of an assassination attempt against the Pentagon's number two man. Paul Wolfowitz had a room on the side of the hotel hit by a volley of rockets just a floor down from where one struck. The rockets came from a homemade but very sophisticated rocket launcher fashioned to look like an innocuous (unintelligible).
MAJ. GEN. RAYMOND ODIERNO, COMMANDER, 4TH INFANTRY DIVISION: What they're now doing is they're going after soft targets. They're going after targets that they think they can be most successful of and then get notoriety by conducting them because they know that they're not being successful in doing direct attacks against American forces.
MCINTYRE (on camera): Several Democratic presidential hopefuls criticized President Bush for suggesting U.S. success in Iraq was making the insurgents more desperate. Joe Lieberman said he was startled by the argument that it "makes no sense." Howard Dean said in my book it means things are worse, and John Kerry said it was frighteningly like the light at the end of the tunnel rhetoric of the Vietnam War.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: I'll talk with Senator John Kerry a little bit later in the program.
Coming up, though, on NEWSNIGHT, the administration's dilemma, release 9/11 documents to the independent commission investigating the attacks or keep them secret that and more ahead on NEWSNIGHT from Washington, D.C.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: On a different day, a day without the massive wildfires in California, a day without the series of deadly and audacious attacks in Iraq, this next story might have been our lead, a long, simmering frustration on the independent commission investigating the attacks of 9/11.
The commission is something the administration never really wanted in the first place. And from the beginning, the commission says it's been frustrated by what members see as a lack of full cooperation from the White House. The simmer is turning into a slow boil, as the commission attempts to get documents that could shed light on who knew what and when, now under the threat of subpoenas.
Here is CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mr. Bush responded to the threat of the subpoenas after a meeting with his top Iraq advisers, but HE came short of offering to turn over classified documents to the 9/11 Commission.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those are very sensitive documents. And my attorney, Al Gonzales, is working with Chairman Kean.
MALVEAUX: The White House says it has executive privilege not to turn over certain highly sensitive and classified documents to the bipartisan commission created by Congress to investigate 9/11, a commission the White House initially opposed. But President Bush is under additional pressure from both Republican and Democratic lawmakers. SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The fact that the Bush administration is not cooperating with a commission investigating how September 11 happened is outrageous. What are they hiding?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I hope the White House is serious about turning over the documents requested by Governor Kean and his commission. This is serious. The American people deserve some answers.
MALVEAUX: The White House insists that all requests have been taken seriously. In a memo sent October 17 to senior staff, the president's lawyer, Alberto Gonzales said that: "The chief of staff expects departments and agencies to take document requests as seriously as a subpoena." And today, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan vowed White House cooperation.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There's a lot of ways to provide information to the commission. And we will continue working with them in a cooperative way to make sure that they have the information they need to complete their work and meet the deadline that Congress created.
MALVEAUX (on camera): The commission and the White House are negotiating a compromise which would allow commission members access, while, at the same time, satisfying the administration's concerns about leaks of government secrets. But time is running out, as the commission expires May 2004.
Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few more items now from around the country, starting with emotional testimony today. At the sniper trial, a witness described the killing of a cab driver at a gas station outside of Washington. Also today, the judge ruled the defense cannot call a mental health expert to testify to defendant John Muhammad's traumatic childhood, making it harder for the defense to make a case against the death penalty if Muhammad is convicted.
Nine employees of New Jersey's Division of Youth and Family Services are being fired. They were responsible, or should have been, for the four boys who were found earlier this month starving to death in their adoptive home. One boy, 19, weighed less than 50 pounds. He's still in the hospital. His brothers got out today. Their adoptive parents face assault and child endangerment charges.
And perhaps it had to happen, perhaps for his own safety. The Boston Red Sox today announced they will not renew the contract of manager Grady Little. It sounds like they fired him. Despite leading the team nearly to the World Series this year, fans blame him for not pulling his star pitcher in game seven of the playoffs and losing to the Yankees. Others have a simpler explanation: It was the curse.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: handling a crisis. We'll talk with former presidential adviser David Gergen about how the administration is dealing with the increasing problems in Iraq.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Lot more NEWSNIGHT ahead. John Kerry, Democratic hopeful, joins us. Morning papers, too. And David Gergen up next.
We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT from Washington.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It can't be easy for the president to put even the hint of a positive spin on the events in Iraq the last day and a half or so. Less clear is what else he can do, given the situation, one of the things we'll talk with David Gergen about. He's been with presidents when they have faced formidable challenges. We're always glad to have him on the program. He joins us tonight from Boston.
David, nice to see you.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: Iraq in a minute.
Just looking back to the story in the last segment on 9/11, obviously, any impression the administration is stonewalling the commission doesn't look very good. But is it the sort of issue that is politically dangerous?
GERGEN: Yes, Aaron, it is over time, especially when it's joined with the Iraqi story.
If you put those two stories together tonight, whatever the facts are behind the scenes, the administration is dangerously close to giving the impression that it is not fully cooperating with the investigation of 9/11 and isn't fully facing a reality in Iraq. Those two combined make the words a little less credible, at the very time the president needs to build support for some tough decisions on Iraq.
BROWN: If there's carping from the Democratic presidential hopefuls on Iraq, that's understandable. And I assume people take that...
GERGEN: Yes.
BROWN: ... to some degree for what it is.
Do you agree at all with John Kerry, when you look at the president's words today, that there are echoes of Vietnam in the way he said what he said?
GERGEN: I think, at the moment, the Democratic candidates are being seen for just that, candidates. The words that cut and really cut deeply here are those of, say, a senator like Chuck Hagel, who says we need to take this seriously on 9/11, and when other Republican senators, people who are close to the president are beginning to raise questions about our policies in Iraq, are we on the right road to Iraq.
Indeed, the secretary of defense himself has written this memo that -- on this question of progress, he's asking the question, the more ahead we get, the more behind we may be getting.
BROWN: They're having that problem a little bit right now of squaring their public words and their private words.
GERGEN: Right.
BROWN: Their public words with the reality on the ground. And we've talked about this before, David. The president's greatest strength in every poll we've ever seen is the belief the American people have that he is honest and truthful.
GERGEN: He's always been seen as a straight shooter. That's one of his greatest assets. And he would let that -- he would squander that at his peril politically, as well as just his capacity to govern.
So I think he really does need -- and if you're sitting in the White House tonight, Aaron, I think you would be looking for ways, let's work this out. For example, with the commission, the Tom Kean commission, here is a Republican who is co-chair of this commission who is pushing the White House for noncooperation.
What you can do is, you say, OK, look, here are the five or six documents that are extraordinarily sensitive. They cannot see the light of day, in terms of beyond a few members of this commission. But why don't we let half a dozen members, four members of the commission come in and read them privately in a quiet room, not be able to take anything out, just read them for their own information? And that will give assurance to the public that every stone has been overturned and the commission has seen everything.
On Iraq, I think they really have to change their tone, Aaron. It's not only that their tone doesn't fit the bombs that we see, but there is this sense of, are you guys facing reality? And I think the way that the press works, Aaron -- and you know this much better than I do -- but the way the press works, if the White House is unwilling to admit error or say, hey, this isn't going as well as we thought it was, it's like waving a red flag in front of a bull with the press.
They come charging after you to say, we're going to prove this isn't going well, instead of giving you a break and saying, well, yes, you did open these 1,500 hospitals, yes, you have brought all these kids back to school, but, Mr. President, at the same time, we just lost over 36 people and time is running out in Iraq. That's the big issue. Are we on the right course there?
BROWN: David, just quickly -- and I'm going to ask John Kerry this later in the program, Senator Kerry.
GERGEN: Sure. BROWN: Do you think the Democrats are in danger of having Iraq hijack, in a sense, their entire campaign, or at least their entire primary campaign?
GERGEN: That's a darn good question.
I think that they have become so -- they clearly need to concentrate on it, because it's a major national issue. But I think that they have not presented the full panoply of critiques. And, more importantly, Aaron, I think, in their criticism, there has really not been a Democratic alternative that they've rallied around. What is the Democratic strategy for dealing with these bombs in Iraq?
I mean, it's got to be more than now, I think, bringing in some -- a few other nations. This is urgent. The Iraqis are going to lose patience with us pretty soon. Not only the Sunnis, but the Shiites are starting to break away. There is a growing feeling among the Iraqis, unfairly, hey, if you just got the Americans out of here, maybe it would be safe again.
BROWN: Yes.
GERGEN: So I think this issue is really urgent.
BROWN: David, I would like to, at some point soon, actually pick up on that, this notion that the clock is running. But, for now, our clock is running.
GERGEN: Sure.
BROWN: So let me just say, it's good to have you with us. Thanks for joining us.
GERGEN: Aaron, it's great to talk to you again. Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you, sir -- David Gergen with us tonight.
We'll take a break. When we come back, presidential candidate, author, too -- we'll talk with Massachusetts Senator John Kerry.
But a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It's a common complaint that candidates for president oversimplify complex issues in their pursuit of votes. This might not be the best complaint to hurl at Senator John Kerry, a decorated war hero wounded in Vietnam, a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War when he returned. He voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq, but, last week, voted against the $87 billion in additional funding.
On the stump, he says he's for winning the war in Iraq, but worries, the administration's upbeat reaction to the weekend's bombing sound -- quote -- "frighteningly like the 'light at end of the tunnel' rhetoric of Vietnam." The senator has written a book, "A Call to Service: My Vision For a Better America," in which, we can presume, it's all made clear.
We're delighted to have Senator Kerry with us tonight in New York.
Senator, nice to see you.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We hope it is made clear, Aaron. It's great to be with you.
BROWN: Thank you.
I asked David Gergen this. You may have heard it. Do you worry that your campaign, all of your -- all the Democratic campaigns are being hijacked by the Iraqi issue, that no one is hearing anything else?
KERRY: Not in the least, no.
People I'm talking to are deeply concerned about their jobs, the economy. I'm running because I know how to put America back to work. I think we can hold on to our manufacturing base, create jobs. We can be more fiscally responsible. And we can provide health care to Americans, which people are just screaming about.
Everywhere I go, you hear about the cost of health care and how it's taking every wage increase anybody gets or even becoming impossible to pay for it. So the answer is, no, it is not going to squeeze it out. But it is an enormously important issue for the nation, for the world. And it belongs on the table.
BROWN: It certainly does. Let's talk about some of it.
One of the things I hear a lot about the Democratic candidates is that they do criticize well, but what would they do different? So, in this postwar period, what would President John Kerry do that President George W. Bush is not doing right now?
KERRY: Conduct real and effective diplomacy.
The president has really driven other nations away from us, not pulled them to us. You cannot go to the United Nations and just demand. You have to work the process in a way that brings people to our cause. And the president has missed three opportunities to do that now: when we passed our vote, when they entered Iraq and Baghdad, and, finally, when he went to the U.N. three weeks ago.
I think you have to turn over to the United Nations genuine authority, ask them, with a little humility, to be involved in the process of the transformation of Iraq and bring them to the table for the humanitarian, the infrastructure and governance -- the governing part of Iraq. If you did that, that will build the kind of coalition you need in order to deal with the on-the-ground issues, which strengthen our forces on the ground.
It takes the target off of American soldiers. It reduces the sense of American occupation. I think, Aaron, it's foreign policy 101, fundamental, that the United States should not have looked for a way to occupy a Middle Eastern nation almost alone. And the president's got to find a way out of that.
BROWN: You voted last week against the $87 billion. If your vote had been the deciding vote, if it had made the difference, your vote, up or down, would you have still voted against that money?
KERRY: I would never desert the troops. I would never not do what we need to do to be successful.
But the truth is, if the vote were that close, I guarantee you that, before they took the vote, they would have worked something out, so that you would have had a different structure and a different vote. That's the way it works in the United States Senate. If it didn't, I can guarantee you, as a former soldier, I'm not going to leave our soldiers without the money they need.
But the fact is, they wouldn't be left without the money, because this money -- we've already put $79 billion on the table. This money doesn't run out for several months. So there was plenty of room here to be able to get this right. I voted the way I voted because the president is going down a dark road which is going to cost America more money. It is going to put our troops at greater risk. And the job of the president is to reduce that risk and to maximize the chances for success.
He may well be successful ultimately going down the road he's going. But the question for Americans to ask is at what cost in lives and at what cost in dollars and at what cost in terms of our reputation and influence in the region.
BROWN: Just quickly, Senator, do you think that the war and the postwar will be the deciding issue, both in the nominating process and ultimately in the election?
KERRY: No, I don't. I think it's one.
I think the issue of American security is on the table. But American security is not just international and national security. It is also job security, income security, retirement security, health security, education. And I think that Americans understand that. This election will be fought out on all of those issues. And they are all front and center in people's minds.
BROWN: Senator, it's kind of strange. You're in New York and I'm in Washington. It ought to be the other way.
KERRY: Well, no, it isn't. No, it ought to be this way. I like it here better. You stay there.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Thank you. It's nice to see you, sir. Thank you very much.
KERRY: Thank you. BROWN: Senator John Kerry.
We'll check a handful of morning papers a few other things, as we continue from Washington.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Ah, that thing follows me wherever I go.
Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. We're doing this in a new place with a new printer, a whole new set of cameras and lots of problems. But we're going to do it anyway, because that's the way we are. And we'll do it from around the world, too.
"The Jerusalem Post" -- that would be in Jerusalem, of course -- leads with Iraq. Now, can you guys see this or not? Am I holding it in the right place? "Baghdad Bombings Kill Dozens, Wound 200." So that's the big story, not just in the United States, but across the world, or at least in Jerusalem, the ongoing violence in Iraq.
Actually, I had one more foreign paper. Can I find it real quickly? Yes, I can. Here it is, the "Moscow Times". I didn't know about this either. That's why you read the papers. Sometimes you don't know about these things. "Trading Stopped in Market Meltdown." They had a bad day in the stock market in what used to be the Soviet Union, but it's now Russia, or at least part of it. Anyway, that's the big story in the English-language paper there.
Some domestic stories for you. "The Richmond Times-Dispatch," the leading newspaper in Virginia, they so claim. And I believe them. "A Bloody Start to Ramadan" is the way they headline the ugliness in Iraq. "Three Dozen Killed in U.S.'s Worst Day Under U.S. Occupation." It really has been nasty. And then they also, very prominently -- as you would, too, if you owned the newspaper -- play the fire -- fires, a devastating fire, a dangerous fire in California. And they focus on San Diego. And it's kind of interesting picture. I don't know if you can tell, but it's just burned-out homes on either side of the road.
David, how we doing on time? Thirty. OK.
"Dallas Morning News." "Bush Pledges to Press on in Iraq. Baghdad Blasts Kill 35, Hurt 200." I should actually look and see if everybody has the same numbers. I'm not actually sure.
"Showtime in Circus City." That's the L.A. Lakers' problems.
The weather in Chicago tomorrow is "ghoulish."
We'll take a break, then take a look at the most e-mailed stories on the other side of it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A minute now to look at the stories that people have e- mailed to one another off our Web site, the most e-mailed stories.
The tenth most e-mailed story, the president wants marriage reserved for heterosexuals. I didn't know the president talked about that recently, but apparently so. Thousands march in Washington against the war mailed a lot. I love No. 8. Chopsticks may cause arthritis. The weird thing is, Chinese food may cure it.
No. 7, new diet squeezes in on weight loss scene. It's a Atkins- like diet, the South Beach diet. Wolfowitz survives rocket attack and California wildfires torch more than 400 homes are the sixth and fifth. Study suggests life sprang from clay, proving there is a Gumby in all of us, I guess. Here is one a father loves to see, the father of a daughter. School boys took Viagra at lunch. Women join New York nude photo shoot. And the No. 1 most e-mailed story, toddlers eat too much junk food -- with chopsticks, as it turns out.
Quickly to Simi Valley, California, recap our top story tonight. The wildfires in California continue to burn all across the southland, the area around Los Angeles. Thousands of people have been evacuated. The best they hope for is good weather, a break in the weather by the middle of the week. This will no doubt lead much of the news tomorrow.
For our viewers around the world, "World News" is next. Good to have you with us tonight. In the United States, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is coming right up.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
30 in Iraq; Interview With John Kerry>
Aired October 27, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
We are in Washington tonight. Two firestorms occupy much of the program. The first in Southern California is both destructive and deadly but it is knowable and fightable and given enough men and machinery and money, and perhaps a little luck as well, it will be out and lives will go on, not easily and probably not soon, but normal will return to Southern California.
The other firestorm is in Iraq. It springs from unseen elements. It's driven by murky forces. The fire lines shift. They seem to be everywhere and nowhere at once, better to leave the impression that no one is safe. Fire lines are risky enough when you know where they are.
The whip begins tonight with the ones in Southern California and we start to the north of Los Angeles in Simi Valley and CNN's Martin Savidge, Marty a headline.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Aaron. The winds of Southern California have died down tonight. They have also changed direction. That means that what was once safe during the day could now be threatened tonight. The flames have reached historic proportions and no one can tell you tonight when or where they will be stopped -- Aaron.
BROWN: Marty, thank you. We'll get back to you at the top tonight.
On to the east and two fires that became one over the weekend, CNN's Frank Buckley in Devore, Frank a headline from you.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, those fires continue to burn in this region. Tonight more than 500 homes have been destroyed but when the winds would give them a break the firefighters fought back.
BROWN: Frank, thank you.
Flames are a threat clear to the Mexican border, CNN's David Mattingly in San Diego tonight, David a headline from you.
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: More help is on the way tonight to San Diego County where fires continue to burn after a devastating and deadly weekend -- Aaron. BROWN: David, thank you.
And finally to Iraq, a bloody day that followed a very difficult weekend, CNN's Jane Arraf has the watch, Jane a headline.
JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, a horrifying start to the Muslim holy month of Ramadan leaving 35 people dead, at least 230 wounded the highest casualty toll in Baghdad since the end of the war.
BROWN: Jane, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up on this Monday from Washington, President Bush tries to put a positive face on the explosion of violence in Iraq over the last 24 hours or so.
We'll talk with Massachusetts Senator John Kerry about his run for the presidency.
And later, fresh from its weekend hiatus, we hope the rooster will crow and bring with him to Washington some morning papers, top ten list coming up as well, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin in Southern California, which in many different ways is a mess tonight. Seen from space the entire Los Angeles basin, all of it, it looks like a smokestack emptying into the Pacific, the smoke coming from more than a dozen wildfires blown west by the hot and dry Santa Ana winds that are fanning them.
Down below more than 15 million people, most merely inconvenienced but for many it is much worse than that. Eight hundred families are homeless tonight, more than a dozen people have died and no one can say how or when this will end only that it may not be soon or soon enough.
But when all is said and done the damage will run into the billions and more stress will be placed on a state that financially, at least, is already stressed out a number of reports as we indicated Frank Buckley in Devore, David Mattingly in San Diego.
But we begin with CNN's Martin Savidge in Simi Valley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): It was another day of hell on earth in Simi Valley as Santa Ana winds fanned flames into a blowtorch searing mostly unchecked through the canyon landscape. For residents there was little to do but get out of the way.
This is the Indian Hills Trailer Park. Most people came here because the price was low and the views were beautiful. Now it's under a mandatory evacuation order.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm already all packed up, really nervous.
SAVIDGE: Kevin Harris is one of the holdouts. He's scared. You can hear it in his voice.
KEVIN HARRIS, RESIDENT: Deciding on whether to stay or go. We're packed up and ready to go but...
SAVIDGE: Why not just go?
HARRIS: It's kind of a tough decision, you know, because we could go and come back tomorrow and we might not have a house.
SAVIDGE: The question quickly becomes what do you take of your life when you only have 20 minutes? Here's what Corey is taking.
COREY BUSHELL, RESIDENT: Photographs, we have a big old bag of cassette tapes of the baby being born and everything.
SAVIDGE: A few doublewides down, Tina's list is about the same.
And what did you pack?
TINA ZINSKI, RESIDENT: Everything that matters.
SAVIDGE: And what is that? What does matter in the few minutes?
ZINSKI: Pictures, memories.
SAVIDGE: In the trailer park, 95 percent of the people have already left but they might be glad to know their mail is still going through, bills mostly.
A creepy calm settles in broken by the chatter of fire department radios and the buzzing of helicopters and planes. The firefighters watch the flames. They're getting closer. The planes are chasing the flames.
Eighteen-month-old Cassidy watches all of this from her front window. Fifteen minutes after we first talked to her mother the flames begin to peak over a nearby ridge. That's enough for Tina, Cassidy and the cat. They're leaving.
The wind still in the trailer park's favor for now, we watch, the firemen wait, and Kevin wonders what he'll have left in the morning.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: And that trailer park is located in Los Angeles. Today the Simi Valley fire broke through a very important barrier that is Highway 118. It runs through Ventura County going from east to west. The flames have now dropped south of that. That means for the first time evacuations have been ordered in Los Angeles itself -- Aaron.
BROWN: We were out there, as you know Marty, for the last couple of days. This thing kept building and building. Is there any sense that the firefighters have pushed back at all or is it still the fire that's in control?
SAVIDGE: There are small victories that are made everywhere along the battlefield that is the front line of fire; however, they know it is only a small holding pattern. They need help from nature, help that may come in the middle of the week -- Aaron.
BROWN: And it comes because the winds die?
SAVIDGE: It's going to come, they hope, because of a number of factors. As you say, the wind should change and die down. Also, the temperature should drop significantly. We're talking maybe 20 degrees.
On top of that humidity levels will begin to rise. Put all those factors together. It will bring welcome relief. The only problem is the winds may not be blowing as forcefully allowing the fire to drift in almost any direction -- Aaron.
BROWN: Marty, thanks a lot, a long day for you, Martin Savidge in Simi Valley.
President Bush has declared parts of California major disaster area. It is certainly that. So, too, has California's Governor Gray Davis and he'll join us shortly.
For now we move down the coast and a bit inland to Devore near San Bernardino, east of Los Angeles where the fire came early and tonight many people are returning to places where they used to live, that story from CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY (voice-over): Helicopters hit the fire from the air. Firefighters fought back on the ground but in the fog of this war against two fires that merged into one in and around San Bernardino, more than 500 homes were destroyed.
This was once the childhood home of Annie Reese (ph). It had three bedrooms, 1,500 square feet, and a lifetime of memories.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Six years old I grew up here and I have lots of memories there but I mean I'm hurting. I mean my mom's out. I mean that's all that really matters.
BUCKLEY: Across the street Joshua Brooks collected his bills and assessed the damage to his home. Most of his home and many of his belongings survived but there's just enough damage...
JOSHUA BROOKS, RESIDENT: Look at the walls, see how hot it was, the ceiling and the walls.
BUCKLEY: ...to make living her impossible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What am I going to do with it now?
BUCKLEY: For 76-year-old Chuck Reed (ph) it wasn't his home that was damaged. It was fine. It was his collection of fully restored classic cars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Forty Cadillac Club Coupe.
BUCKLEY: Like his cherished Cadillac Club Coupe and the tools that he used to restore cars.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, years of work. Now I haven't even got a hammer.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And tonight more than 40,000 people remain under some level of an evacuation order in this region, Aaron. More than 4,000 firefighters are on the scene here and sadly three deaths have been attributed to these fires -- Aaron.
BROWN: Frank, thank you, Frank Buckley tonight in San Bernardino Valley.
Tonight's Monday night football game between the Miami Dolphins and the San Diego Chargers, as you may know, became an away game because of the fire. They moved it to Tempe, Arizona, the proceeds going to fire relief.
The stadium in San Diego tonight, somewhere under the smoke, is being used as an evacuation center. People who a few days ago might have thought it would be fun to be on the turf of an NFL stadium have learned that great lesson again. Be careful what you wish for.
Here's CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): San Diego's QUALCOMM Stadium was supposed to be buzzing in anticipation of the NFL's Monday night football game but instead of tailgaters the parking lot was full of emergency supplies and people forced out of their homes by wildfire.
DANI DAILY, VOLUNTEER: People just want to know. They also want to know is it their street, houses, and we don't have that information of specific addresses or specific streets where there is just total devastation.
MATTINGLY: The worst fires in San Diego County since 1970, 11 people were killed Sunday and hundreds of home destroyed as hot, dry Santa Ana winds whipped large brushfires across thousands of acres.
GEORGE LEWIS, EVACUEE: It was about five miles from my neighborhood and I could see the fire outside my living room. It was pretty scary.
MATTINGLY: George Lewis and his neighbors were among the lucky ones. They spent the night outside the stadium in campers. Others slept in cars.
BERRY FIECK, EVACUEE: The hardest part actually is the waiting and not knowing and, you know, not having any information. MATTINGLY: Much of San Diego remains under a thick cloud of brown smoke with powdery white ash continuing to fall, conditions that are leading to a rise in respiratory problems.
TAMMY SERVIES, VOLUNTEER PHYSICIAN: We're seeing respiratory distress people (unintelligible) are having difficulty breathing with all the soot in the air.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: And California Governor Gray Davis announcing tonight that more relief is on the way to San Diego County in the form of firefighters and equipment, of course everyone here hoping that translates to less property damage as these fires continue to burn -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, thank you very much, David Mattingly tonight, part of the CNN team that is in Southern California.
We're joined now by California's Governor Gray Davis. He's in San Diego.
GOV. GRAY DAVIS (D), CALIFORNIA: Hi.
BROWN: Governor, it's good to have you with us. It's a horrible day. Any single impression more than any other today in your mind?
DAVIS: Aaron, just how positive people are here in San Diego. Last night in San Bernardino, a seven-year-old girl took me by the hand and we walked through the rubble of what was her home and she showed me her old room. She was positive. She was smiling. So was her father.
And I'm just determined to do everything I can to make sure she and everyone else who was harmed by this fire get the financial relief they need to put their lives back in order.
BROWN: And that's pretty much at this point all you can do. I saw earlier that you activated some National Guard units, is that correct?
DAVIS: We activated the National Guard. That's correct. They have eight helicopters that can help with the fires. The Highway Patrol is on 24-hour shifts. The health department is helping with respiratory problems, mental health department helping with the people traumatized by losing their homes.
I called the governors of Arizona and Nevada. They're each sending more fire trucks and more personnel to help us. So, we're doing everything we can to a) put out the fire and, b) help people put their lives back together.
BROWN: Any idea how many people have either been evacuated or are under evacuation orders tonight?
DAVIS: There are close to 1,000 homes that have been destroyed. Obviously, all those folks are sleeping somewhere else tonight, some in evacuation shelters, some with neighbors.
This is a very serious fire. San Diego has never had a fire as bad as this. That happens to be where I am now and the rest of California probably has to go back at least ten years to the last major fire of this significance.
BROWN: What do you need? Obviously a break in the weather is the only thing that will ultimately end this I suppose. What does the state need most right now?
DAVIS: We still need more firefighting resources to put this fire out. We are dependent, as some of your reporters suggested, on the weather. It looks like we may get a break midweek. After that we have to work our tails off to make sure that people who lost their homes or businesses don't have to wait forever for a check to allow them to rebuild.
And I impressed on Andrew Card, the president's chief of staff who I called last night around ten o'clock his time, how important it is to get people on the ground in California, one stop shops if you will. People can fill out all the forms they need and hopefully get a check early next week because that little girl I talked about earlier I'm sure in three or four days she's going to get awfully impatient to see work begin on rebuilding her home.
BROWN: Have you talked to the governor-elect about this by the way?
DAVIS: Yes. I talked to Governor-elect Schwarzenegger about 4:45 today. I've ordered that my Office of Emergency Services brief his team hourly. I asked him and he was happy to do this on his trip to Washington tomorrow to impress upon the Small Business Administration, to impress upon FEMA, get your tail out to California. Set up one stop shops and put money in the hands of people who deserve it.
BROWN: It's probably a little bit unseemly for us to talk about money but the fact is the state has terrific budget problems. Where's the money going to come from that portion that's state money? Where's it coming from?
DAVIS: Well, we're going to have to pay for our share of this disaster. Typically, the federal government pays about 75 to 90 percent of a disaster depending on what kind it is. That money happily is budgeted because the Congress knows someplace there's going to be an earthquake or a fire or a flood they have to deal with.
So, the money is there in Washington. The loans are available. Our job is to work collectively. We're all Americans now. We're not Republicans. We're not Democrats. We're all one team.
We've got to pull together to help the people that were hurt so badly out here in California and thus far I'm very pleased with the efforts of the federal government, the governors of my neighboring states, one a Republican, one a Democrat. I was with Mayor Murphy in San Diego today, a Republican. Everyone is pulling together. BROWN: Do you feel, sir, that in the last two days, Sunday and Monday, that the worst now is over or is it still getting a little bit worse each hour?
DAVIS: You know it's very hard to predict these fires. They've particularly in San Bernardino they've changed directions two or three times. In San Diego there wasn't a problem on Friday. There wasn't really much of a problem on Saturday and all hell broke loose here on Sunday.
So, it's really hard to predict what's going to happen with the fires. I hope by the end of the week that we have serious containment on all of them but we'll need some luck and some more equipment to do that.
BROWN: Well, we wish you both. We wish you lots of good luck.
DAVIS: Thank you.
BROWN: And we hope you get the equipment. Governor Davis, thank you. It's good to talk to you on a difficult night.
DAVIS: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: Gray Davis -- thank you, sir, Gray Davis in San Diego tonight.
Ahead on the program we'll get to the business in Iraq, the violence of the last day and a half, the Bush administration's take on what's happening there.
Later, a critic of the administration, someone who wants the president's job in fact, Massachusetts Senator and Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry joins us, more too.
This is NEWSNIGHT from Washington, D.C.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It's safe to say nobody sleeps easy in Baghdad these days, not the American administration which was rocked by a missile attack at the al-Rashid Hotel over the weekend as Paul Wolfowitz, the Deputy Defense Secretary paid a visit and not the people the United States is counting on to make life better for ordinary Iraqis, the police, the volunteers who came to Iraq to help. No one disputes these have been difficult days in Iraq, the why is the subject of some disagreement, first the what.
Here again, CNN's Jane Arraf.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARRAF (voice-over): They thought they were different. They weren't. The International Red Cross had rejected the concrete barriers and armed security of other organizations. They relied on their neutrality. Monday morning on the first day of the Muslim holy month of Ramadan a suicide bomber detonated a medical supply truck with the symbol of the Red Crescent, the Islamic sister organization of the Red Cross.
(on camera): This is the last kind of security that the International Red Cross wanted to see in front of its headquarters but in the aftermath of this car bomb there will be a lot of questions about how to keep people safe in this city.
(voice-over): The blast killed two Iraqi International Red Cross workers, ten other people, and injured at least 20 more. Hours later, neighborhood residents were still finding body parts hundreds of yards away and the illusion that the symbol of a humanitarian organization could protect anyone had been shattered.
NADA DOUMANI, ICRC: It's the whole sign of protection that's put in question and when that detonated that the new world that we're living in that nothing anymore is respected.
ARRAF: In just two hours on Monday morning, as if to prove a point, three other suicide car bombs exploded at police stations in Baghdad. The driver of a fifth car bomb was shot before he could detonate it.
At least 34 people were killed and 220 wounded in the four attacks but senior U.S. military officials still tried to put a positive spin on the security situation.
BRIG. GEN. MARK HERTLING, U.S. ARMY: The reason three of the bombs have been directed at police stations is because I think these criminals realize that there's been a decrease in crime in Baghdad, that the force protection services and the Iraqi police are building up and they're securing the environment.
ARRAF: Some defense officials said the attacks had the hallmarks of "foreign fighters." Others said they were Ba'ath Party remnants. Residents we talked to didn't care who was behind it. They only knew that despite what some call a more secure environment they were feeling particularly insecure.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARRAF: And in the wake of this, the International Red Cross, Aaron, is deciding how to go forward. They say they will continue their work here but they may likely do it with far fewer international staff -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, you spent a long time in Iraq. Is it your view that a suicide attack is the work of a Ba'ath Party follower or a foreign terrorist?
ARRAF: This is definitely a new Iraq, Aaron, with new rules. Now one thing is that under the Ba'ath Party, under Saddam there just weren't a lot of suicide bombers. There wasn't a lot of violence like this in general. The country was generally under such tight control, apart from a few scattered attempts at the Iraqi regime, that you didn't see this kind of thing.
Now they may have learned it along the way or it could very well be the influence or the assistance of foreign fighters who have come in through those borders and the borders to Iraq really are virtually wide open.
Even the officials we talk to, as you've seen, there's a variety of opinions among senior U.S. military officials but one thing they are saying is they don't have solid evidence on any of these attacks yet -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jane, thank you, Jane Arraf in Baghdad.
It's hard to put a good face on the attacks in Iraq and it's hard to argue they're getting undue coverage. After all a ranking administration official could well have died in the hotel attack and the attack on the Red Cross will not just be news here, it will be news around the world. But the president today saw a glass half full. The attacks are a sign of American progress, progress the country's enemies fear.
Here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With suicide bombers striking four times in 45 minutes in the Iraqi capital, with dozens of Iraqis dead and hundreds injured, with another U.S. soldier killed, President Bush is hard pressed to say things are going well but he insists the deadly attacks are a sign the insurgents are growing more desperate.
BUSH: The more jobs that are available, the more kids that are going to school, the more desperate these killers become because they can't stand the thought of a free society.
MCINTYRE: For the U.S. administrator in charge it was another day of urging Americans to keep events in perspective.
PAUL BREMER, U.S. CIVILIAN ADMINISTRATOR IN IRAQ: We'll have rough days, such as we've had the last couple of days but the overall thrust is in the right direction and the good days outnumber the bad days.
MCINTYRE: Sunday was another bad day an audacious attack on the al-Rashid Hotel in Baghdad had all the earmarks of an assassination attempt against the Pentagon's number two man. Paul Wolfowitz had a room on the side of the hotel hit by a volley of rockets just a floor down from where one struck. The rockets came from a homemade but very sophisticated rocket launcher fashioned to look like an innocuous (unintelligible).
MAJ. GEN. RAYMOND ODIERNO, COMMANDER, 4TH INFANTRY DIVISION: What they're now doing is they're going after soft targets. They're going after targets that they think they can be most successful of and then get notoriety by conducting them because they know that they're not being successful in doing direct attacks against American forces.
MCINTYRE (on camera): Several Democratic presidential hopefuls criticized President Bush for suggesting U.S. success in Iraq was making the insurgents more desperate. Joe Lieberman said he was startled by the argument that it "makes no sense." Howard Dean said in my book it means things are worse, and John Kerry said it was frighteningly like the light at the end of the tunnel rhetoric of the Vietnam War.
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: I'll talk with Senator John Kerry a little bit later in the program.
Coming up, though, on NEWSNIGHT, the administration's dilemma, release 9/11 documents to the independent commission investigating the attacks or keep them secret that and more ahead on NEWSNIGHT from Washington, D.C.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: On a different day, a day without the massive wildfires in California, a day without the series of deadly and audacious attacks in Iraq, this next story might have been our lead, a long, simmering frustration on the independent commission investigating the attacks of 9/11.
The commission is something the administration never really wanted in the first place. And from the beginning, the commission says it's been frustrated by what members see as a lack of full cooperation from the White House. The simmer is turning into a slow boil, as the commission attempts to get documents that could shed light on who knew what and when, now under the threat of subpoenas.
Here is CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Mr. Bush responded to the threat of the subpoenas after a meeting with his top Iraq advisers, but HE came short of offering to turn over classified documents to the 9/11 Commission.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Those are very sensitive documents. And my attorney, Al Gonzales, is working with Chairman Kean.
MALVEAUX: The White House says it has executive privilege not to turn over certain highly sensitive and classified documents to the bipartisan commission created by Congress to investigate 9/11, a commission the White House initially opposed. But President Bush is under additional pressure from both Republican and Democratic lawmakers. SEN. JOSEPH LIEBERMAN (D-CT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The fact that the Bush administration is not cooperating with a commission investigating how September 11 happened is outrageous. What are they hiding?
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I hope the White House is serious about turning over the documents requested by Governor Kean and his commission. This is serious. The American people deserve some answers.
MALVEAUX: The White House insists that all requests have been taken seriously. In a memo sent October 17 to senior staff, the president's lawyer, Alberto Gonzales said that: "The chief of staff expects departments and agencies to take document requests as seriously as a subpoena." And today, White House Press Secretary Scott McClellan vowed White House cooperation.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There's a lot of ways to provide information to the commission. And we will continue working with them in a cooperative way to make sure that they have the information they need to complete their work and meet the deadline that Congress created.
MALVEAUX (on camera): The commission and the White House are negotiating a compromise which would allow commission members access, while, at the same time, satisfying the administration's concerns about leaks of government secrets. But time is running out, as the commission expires May 2004.
Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few more items now from around the country, starting with emotional testimony today. At the sniper trial, a witness described the killing of a cab driver at a gas station outside of Washington. Also today, the judge ruled the defense cannot call a mental health expert to testify to defendant John Muhammad's traumatic childhood, making it harder for the defense to make a case against the death penalty if Muhammad is convicted.
Nine employees of New Jersey's Division of Youth and Family Services are being fired. They were responsible, or should have been, for the four boys who were found earlier this month starving to death in their adoptive home. One boy, 19, weighed less than 50 pounds. He's still in the hospital. His brothers got out today. Their adoptive parents face assault and child endangerment charges.
And perhaps it had to happen, perhaps for his own safety. The Boston Red Sox today announced they will not renew the contract of manager Grady Little. It sounds like they fired him. Despite leading the team nearly to the World Series this year, fans blame him for not pulling his star pitcher in game seven of the playoffs and losing to the Yankees. Others have a simpler explanation: It was the curse.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT: handling a crisis. We'll talk with former presidential adviser David Gergen about how the administration is dealing with the increasing problems in Iraq.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Lot more NEWSNIGHT ahead. John Kerry, Democratic hopeful, joins us. Morning papers, too. And David Gergen up next.
We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT from Washington.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It can't be easy for the president to put even the hint of a positive spin on the events in Iraq the last day and a half or so. Less clear is what else he can do, given the situation, one of the things we'll talk with David Gergen about. He's been with presidents when they have faced formidable challenges. We're always glad to have him on the program. He joins us tonight from Boston.
David, nice to see you.
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: Iraq in a minute.
Just looking back to the story in the last segment on 9/11, obviously, any impression the administration is stonewalling the commission doesn't look very good. But is it the sort of issue that is politically dangerous?
GERGEN: Yes, Aaron, it is over time, especially when it's joined with the Iraqi story.
If you put those two stories together tonight, whatever the facts are behind the scenes, the administration is dangerously close to giving the impression that it is not fully cooperating with the investigation of 9/11 and isn't fully facing a reality in Iraq. Those two combined make the words a little less credible, at the very time the president needs to build support for some tough decisions on Iraq.
BROWN: If there's carping from the Democratic presidential hopefuls on Iraq, that's understandable. And I assume people take that...
GERGEN: Yes.
BROWN: ... to some degree for what it is.
Do you agree at all with John Kerry, when you look at the president's words today, that there are echoes of Vietnam in the way he said what he said?
GERGEN: I think, at the moment, the Democratic candidates are being seen for just that, candidates. The words that cut and really cut deeply here are those of, say, a senator like Chuck Hagel, who says we need to take this seriously on 9/11, and when other Republican senators, people who are close to the president are beginning to raise questions about our policies in Iraq, are we on the right road to Iraq.
Indeed, the secretary of defense himself has written this memo that -- on this question of progress, he's asking the question, the more ahead we get, the more behind we may be getting.
BROWN: They're having that problem a little bit right now of squaring their public words and their private words.
GERGEN: Right.
BROWN: Their public words with the reality on the ground. And we've talked about this before, David. The president's greatest strength in every poll we've ever seen is the belief the American people have that he is honest and truthful.
GERGEN: He's always been seen as a straight shooter. That's one of his greatest assets. And he would let that -- he would squander that at his peril politically, as well as just his capacity to govern.
So I think he really does need -- and if you're sitting in the White House tonight, Aaron, I think you would be looking for ways, let's work this out. For example, with the commission, the Tom Kean commission, here is a Republican who is co-chair of this commission who is pushing the White House for noncooperation.
What you can do is, you say, OK, look, here are the five or six documents that are extraordinarily sensitive. They cannot see the light of day, in terms of beyond a few members of this commission. But why don't we let half a dozen members, four members of the commission come in and read them privately in a quiet room, not be able to take anything out, just read them for their own information? And that will give assurance to the public that every stone has been overturned and the commission has seen everything.
On Iraq, I think they really have to change their tone, Aaron. It's not only that their tone doesn't fit the bombs that we see, but there is this sense of, are you guys facing reality? And I think the way that the press works, Aaron -- and you know this much better than I do -- but the way the press works, if the White House is unwilling to admit error or say, hey, this isn't going as well as we thought it was, it's like waving a red flag in front of a bull with the press.
They come charging after you to say, we're going to prove this isn't going well, instead of giving you a break and saying, well, yes, you did open these 1,500 hospitals, yes, you have brought all these kids back to school, but, Mr. President, at the same time, we just lost over 36 people and time is running out in Iraq. That's the big issue. Are we on the right course there?
BROWN: David, just quickly -- and I'm going to ask John Kerry this later in the program, Senator Kerry.
GERGEN: Sure. BROWN: Do you think the Democrats are in danger of having Iraq hijack, in a sense, their entire campaign, or at least their entire primary campaign?
GERGEN: That's a darn good question.
I think that they have become so -- they clearly need to concentrate on it, because it's a major national issue. But I think that they have not presented the full panoply of critiques. And, more importantly, Aaron, I think, in their criticism, there has really not been a Democratic alternative that they've rallied around. What is the Democratic strategy for dealing with these bombs in Iraq?
I mean, it's got to be more than now, I think, bringing in some -- a few other nations. This is urgent. The Iraqis are going to lose patience with us pretty soon. Not only the Sunnis, but the Shiites are starting to break away. There is a growing feeling among the Iraqis, unfairly, hey, if you just got the Americans out of here, maybe it would be safe again.
BROWN: Yes.
GERGEN: So I think this issue is really urgent.
BROWN: David, I would like to, at some point soon, actually pick up on that, this notion that the clock is running. But, for now, our clock is running.
GERGEN: Sure.
BROWN: So let me just say, it's good to have you with us. Thanks for joining us.
GERGEN: Aaron, it's great to talk to you again. Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you, sir -- David Gergen with us tonight.
We'll take a break. When we come back, presidential candidate, author, too -- we'll talk with Massachusetts Senator John Kerry.
But a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It's a common complaint that candidates for president oversimplify complex issues in their pursuit of votes. This might not be the best complaint to hurl at Senator John Kerry, a decorated war hero wounded in Vietnam, a leader of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War when he returned. He voted to authorize the use of force in Iraq, but, last week, voted against the $87 billion in additional funding.
On the stump, he says he's for winning the war in Iraq, but worries, the administration's upbeat reaction to the weekend's bombing sound -- quote -- "frighteningly like the 'light at end of the tunnel' rhetoric of Vietnam." The senator has written a book, "A Call to Service: My Vision For a Better America," in which, we can presume, it's all made clear.
We're delighted to have Senator Kerry with us tonight in New York.
Senator, nice to see you.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We hope it is made clear, Aaron. It's great to be with you.
BROWN: Thank you.
I asked David Gergen this. You may have heard it. Do you worry that your campaign, all of your -- all the Democratic campaigns are being hijacked by the Iraqi issue, that no one is hearing anything else?
KERRY: Not in the least, no.
People I'm talking to are deeply concerned about their jobs, the economy. I'm running because I know how to put America back to work. I think we can hold on to our manufacturing base, create jobs. We can be more fiscally responsible. And we can provide health care to Americans, which people are just screaming about.
Everywhere I go, you hear about the cost of health care and how it's taking every wage increase anybody gets or even becoming impossible to pay for it. So the answer is, no, it is not going to squeeze it out. But it is an enormously important issue for the nation, for the world. And it belongs on the table.
BROWN: It certainly does. Let's talk about some of it.
One of the things I hear a lot about the Democratic candidates is that they do criticize well, but what would they do different? So, in this postwar period, what would President John Kerry do that President George W. Bush is not doing right now?
KERRY: Conduct real and effective diplomacy.
The president has really driven other nations away from us, not pulled them to us. You cannot go to the United Nations and just demand. You have to work the process in a way that brings people to our cause. And the president has missed three opportunities to do that now: when we passed our vote, when they entered Iraq and Baghdad, and, finally, when he went to the U.N. three weeks ago.
I think you have to turn over to the United Nations genuine authority, ask them, with a little humility, to be involved in the process of the transformation of Iraq and bring them to the table for the humanitarian, the infrastructure and governance -- the governing part of Iraq. If you did that, that will build the kind of coalition you need in order to deal with the on-the-ground issues, which strengthen our forces on the ground.
It takes the target off of American soldiers. It reduces the sense of American occupation. I think, Aaron, it's foreign policy 101, fundamental, that the United States should not have looked for a way to occupy a Middle Eastern nation almost alone. And the president's got to find a way out of that.
BROWN: You voted last week against the $87 billion. If your vote had been the deciding vote, if it had made the difference, your vote, up or down, would you have still voted against that money?
KERRY: I would never desert the troops. I would never not do what we need to do to be successful.
But the truth is, if the vote were that close, I guarantee you that, before they took the vote, they would have worked something out, so that you would have had a different structure and a different vote. That's the way it works in the United States Senate. If it didn't, I can guarantee you, as a former soldier, I'm not going to leave our soldiers without the money they need.
But the fact is, they wouldn't be left without the money, because this money -- we've already put $79 billion on the table. This money doesn't run out for several months. So there was plenty of room here to be able to get this right. I voted the way I voted because the president is going down a dark road which is going to cost America more money. It is going to put our troops at greater risk. And the job of the president is to reduce that risk and to maximize the chances for success.
He may well be successful ultimately going down the road he's going. But the question for Americans to ask is at what cost in lives and at what cost in dollars and at what cost in terms of our reputation and influence in the region.
BROWN: Just quickly, Senator, do you think that the war and the postwar will be the deciding issue, both in the nominating process and ultimately in the election?
KERRY: No, I don't. I think it's one.
I think the issue of American security is on the table. But American security is not just international and national security. It is also job security, income security, retirement security, health security, education. And I think that Americans understand that. This election will be fought out on all of those issues. And they are all front and center in people's minds.
BROWN: Senator, it's kind of strange. You're in New York and I'm in Washington. It ought to be the other way.
KERRY: Well, no, it isn't. No, it ought to be this way. I like it here better. You stay there.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Thank you. It's nice to see you, sir. Thank you very much.
KERRY: Thank you. BROWN: Senator John Kerry.
We'll check a handful of morning papers a few other things, as we continue from Washington.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Ah, that thing follows me wherever I go.
Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. We're doing this in a new place with a new printer, a whole new set of cameras and lots of problems. But we're going to do it anyway, because that's the way we are. And we'll do it from around the world, too.
"The Jerusalem Post" -- that would be in Jerusalem, of course -- leads with Iraq. Now, can you guys see this or not? Am I holding it in the right place? "Baghdad Bombings Kill Dozens, Wound 200." So that's the big story, not just in the United States, but across the world, or at least in Jerusalem, the ongoing violence in Iraq.
Actually, I had one more foreign paper. Can I find it real quickly? Yes, I can. Here it is, the "Moscow Times". I didn't know about this either. That's why you read the papers. Sometimes you don't know about these things. "Trading Stopped in Market Meltdown." They had a bad day in the stock market in what used to be the Soviet Union, but it's now Russia, or at least part of it. Anyway, that's the big story in the English-language paper there.
Some domestic stories for you. "The Richmond Times-Dispatch," the leading newspaper in Virginia, they so claim. And I believe them. "A Bloody Start to Ramadan" is the way they headline the ugliness in Iraq. "Three Dozen Killed in U.S.'s Worst Day Under U.S. Occupation." It really has been nasty. And then they also, very prominently -- as you would, too, if you owned the newspaper -- play the fire -- fires, a devastating fire, a dangerous fire in California. And they focus on San Diego. And it's kind of interesting picture. I don't know if you can tell, but it's just burned-out homes on either side of the road.
David, how we doing on time? Thirty. OK.
"Dallas Morning News." "Bush Pledges to Press on in Iraq. Baghdad Blasts Kill 35, Hurt 200." I should actually look and see if everybody has the same numbers. I'm not actually sure.
"Showtime in Circus City." That's the L.A. Lakers' problems.
The weather in Chicago tomorrow is "ghoulish."
We'll take a break, then take a look at the most e-mailed stories on the other side of it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: A minute now to look at the stories that people have e- mailed to one another off our Web site, the most e-mailed stories.
The tenth most e-mailed story, the president wants marriage reserved for heterosexuals. I didn't know the president talked about that recently, but apparently so. Thousands march in Washington against the war mailed a lot. I love No. 8. Chopsticks may cause arthritis. The weird thing is, Chinese food may cure it.
No. 7, new diet squeezes in on weight loss scene. It's a Atkins- like diet, the South Beach diet. Wolfowitz survives rocket attack and California wildfires torch more than 400 homes are the sixth and fifth. Study suggests life sprang from clay, proving there is a Gumby in all of us, I guess. Here is one a father loves to see, the father of a daughter. School boys took Viagra at lunch. Women join New York nude photo shoot. And the No. 1 most e-mailed story, toddlers eat too much junk food -- with chopsticks, as it turns out.
Quickly to Simi Valley, California, recap our top story tonight. The wildfires in California continue to burn all across the southland, the area around Los Angeles. Thousands of people have been evacuated. The best they hope for is good weather, a break in the weather by the middle of the week. This will no doubt lead much of the news tomorrow.
For our viewers around the world, "World News" is next. Good to have you with us tonight. In the United States, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is coming right up.
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30 in Iraq; Interview With John Kerry>
