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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Epic Fires Continue to Burn in California; President Bush Defends Iraqi Policy; Interview With Senator Joseph Biden, Senator Chuck Hagel
Aired October 28, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
Said one official in California today, referring to a single fire, that it is an epic fire. And it is clearly not the only one burning. The fight has gone on so long and so hard that, in some cases, in some places, firefighters are being pulled off the lines for rest, even though it means homes will be lost -- better homes than lives.
Again, tonight, the California fires dominate the first section of the program and begin "The Whip."
We go to Porter Ranch, California, first, CNN's Martin Savidge.
Marty, a headline from you tonight.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Aaron.
For the first time since the Simi Valley fire began on Saturday, fire crews today went on the offensive. That's not to say, though, that there weren't some close calls -- Aaron.
BROWN: Marty, we'll get to you at the top tonight.
Next to Rimforest. CNN's Frank Buckley is there.
Frank, an interesting day for you. A headline please.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, firefighters here in the mountains above San Bernardino are doing their best to dig in, to stop this monster fire from roaring into Lake Arrowhead. If they fail, hundreds of homes could be lost -- Aaron.
BROWN: Frank, thank you.
CNN's David Mattingly with us again tonight to the south, near the San Diego area.
David, what's your headline?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, hundreds of fire victims got their first looks at what's left of the their homes here in San Diego County. And all indications are tonight that many more people may soon join them, as a now record fire continues to burn here -- Aaron. BROWN: David, thank you.
And for the president, the fires are political and they are in Iraq. Our senior White House correspondent, John King, has the watch tonight.
John, a headline from you.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, in a 48- minute news conference at the White House, the president repeatedly defended his policy and his strategy in postwar Iraq. But he did the first time today concede some tactical changes are necessarily, after a wave of deadly bombings -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.
Also tonight, we'll talk with Senators Chuck Hagel and Joe Biden, get their take on what's happening in Iraq.
Later, the story of a Chicago pediatrician under arrest tonight for child pornography.
And a crackdown on the rich in Russia. Why are the biggest capitalists there under attack?
And, as always, something less rare than hen's teeth -- huh? -- morning papers -- all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin with the fires. They've been burning for days now east and north and south of Los Angeles, 13 fires in all, more than 500,000 acres burned. Getting a grip on the magnitude of a story like this is not easy, nor is touching all the details. There are extremes of scale at work here from the unimaginably huge to the heartbreakingly small.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Let's start, then, with something small, something everyone can grasp. If a dozen homes burned in one day in your community, it would be bannered across the front page of the paper and lead every newscast. In the Mountain Fire north of San Diego, about a dozen homes have been destroyed, and, as far as we can tell, not a single cameraman has bothered to show up.
So now let's raise the ante some. North of Los Angeles, in the Simi Valley, the Santa Ana winds have eased and Air Force tankers can now attack the Simi Valley fire, where 16 homes have been destroyed, despite 36 hours of effort from exhausted firefighters. More than 500 homes have fallen to the enormous fires burning near San Bernardino, east of L.A. Four people have died.
Here, the winds turned westward, away from Los Angeles, but toward the mountain communities of Rimforest and Lake Arrowhead. Finally, just south of where we started, the Cedar Fire has marched through San Diego's priciest homes, like Sherman through Atlanta, 900 homes gone, at least a dozen lives lost.
Perhaps now, the sheer numbers mean a little more, 12,000 firefighters working the lines; 16 people have died already, at last count, more than 1,500 homes destroyed. It's not really the kind of thing you want to predict, but it's a good bet that the previous record, the $1.75 billion destroyed in the Oakland Hills Fire back in 1991, is about to be eclipsed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And no one holds out much hope otherwise. Neither can the experts say with any precision where things will go from here. The answers literally change with the shifting winds, which was a blessing today and a curse.
From Porter Ranch, near the Simi Valley, here's CNN's Martin Savidge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): By the end of the day Tuesday, there was a new and dangerous twist in the Simi Valley Fire, as the flames took a new turn. No longer driven by Santa Ana winds, the blaze began moving in the opposite direction. Stevenson Ranch in L.A. County had been relatively safe. Now the community was in the fire's new path.
Firefighters rushed in. Residents rushed out. The day had started with hope and promise. For the first time since the Simi Valley fire began Saturday, fire teams went on the offensive. Six large bulldozers worked to draw a line in the dirt around the massive perimeter, quickly doing what would have taken hundreds of firefighters hours of back-breaking labor.
From the air, helicopters and airplanes kept up a near nonstop barrage of water and flame retardant, hoping to push the fire back on its heels. Just off Highway 118, by the Toys "R" Us and Best Buys, an instant heliport was born. Just up the road in a park, another landing zone. From here, firefighting choppers can reload, drop, and repeat in minutes, million-dollar birds protecting million-dollar homes.
Veteran L.A. County Black Hawk pilot Vance Calvin (ph) says they can do 100 runs before the sun goes down, saying they don't fight fires. They buy time.
We try to keep it away from people's homes, away from valuable things. Life, property are essential.
SAVIDGE: Just as our interview ended, his pager goes off.
(PAGER BEEPING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Thanks.
SAVIDGE: His rest is over.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: That meant that Calvin was once again on the run, this time heading for his helicopter, which was taking off for another hot spot.
We should point out, that fire at Stevenson Ranch now has been contained. That's good news. The danger for the homes there has pretty much passed, Aaron. And the Simi Valley Fire has not been greatly destructive. Only 16 homes have gone up in flames. About 95,000 acres have been burned.
However, the thing to keep in mind here is that things could change. Primarily, they've had good fortune and good firefighting. But a simple shift in the wind, as you point out, could push this fire, say, in the direction of San Fernando Valley, where over one million people live -- Aaron.
BROWN: Marty, and if we just stay on the live shot for a second, it's an unbelievable scene. How far from where you are -- or maybe, more importantly, where the fire is -- is the San Fernando Valley, which is hugely populated?
SAVIDGE: It's probably about maybe 10, 15 miles from here. There would be certain terrain that it would have to cross over. Some of that is area that has already been burned.
But it's not out of the realm of possibility, especially if the Santa Ana winds were to kick back in again. The problem is, right now, the winds are drifting. The fire itself is drifting. It's moving over terrain and moving with the onshore breeze, which is now blowing in from the west.
BROWN: Marty, thank you very much. Nice work -- Martin Savidge tonight.
You heard a bit of it in Marty's report, firefighters today speaking of winning little victories, a house here or a school there, holding a ridge line. Many have been at it for days now. They are tired. And tired people can make mistakes. So crews grab sleep whenever and wherever they can. It's not often.
South and to the west now, to Rimforest, here is CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY (voice-over): Firefighters went toe-to-toe with the bully, standing up to flames that would have easily consumed homes, if they hadn't been there.
ALAN MACKAY, SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: It was an incredible save. This was probably one of the best saves I've seen through this whole fire.
BUCKLEY: Huge flames rose up along Highway 18, the rim of the world, as they call it in these mountains above San Bernardino. But these fires were actually part of the firefighting effort, the result of backfires set by firefighters to burn up what vegetation they could on their terms, creating a firebreak to stop the progress of the blaze that's consumed more than 500 homes.
Strike teams knocked down spot fires. A break in the winds allowed air attack on the fire, the planes dropping on top of some firefighters in one instance, when the flames got too close.
STEVE ELENBURG, STRIKE TEAM LEADER: We were just working structure protection, laying a hose, lay down around the house. And it kind of blew up, so they dropped on us.
BUCKLEY: All of the effort appreciated by residents of the mountain communities, like 85-year-old Putnam Henck, who believes firefighters are the same everywhere.
PUTNAM HENCK, AREA RESIDENT: I think every fire department, no matter where it is, when the time came would be heroes.
BUCKLEY: Despite the efforts, though, there were losses. A conference center and several homes did burn when winds didn't cooperate. A news van from KNBC-TV went up in flames, the photographer and reporter uninjured. And even when homes and humans were saved, the fire left its scars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: Now, firefighters were desperate to keep this fire south of Highway 18 up here at the 5,000- to 6,000-foot elevation, because beyond Highway 18 is the village, the vacation resort area of Lake Arrowhead.
I said earlier that hundreds of homes are threatened. Actually, thousands of homes are threatened. Now, the fire did jump Highway 18 this evening in several spots. They are jumping on those spot fires as they occur. So far, they have contained the spot fires that have taken place.
But just to give you a sense of how seriously they are taking this, firefighters who were finally supposed to get some rest tonight, to get some sleep in a hotel, are not going to be getting that sleep tonight. They're supposed to be on the front lines.
Meanwhile, authorities looking into the cause of this fire have released a composite sketch of someone they say is a suspect. He is a man described as a white male in his 20s. He was seen with one other person driving a light gray-colored van near the origin of the Old Fire, throwing something out of this van and then quickly driving away.
Aaron, because four people have died in these fires, he is wanted on suspicion of not only arson, but also of murder -- Aaron.
BROWN: So they believe that at least one of those fires was not accidentally set by humans, but deliberately set?
BUCKLEY: That's what they're thinking.
I mean, it's certainly based on what the witnesses have said. This idea that someone was actually throwing something from a van near the origin of the fire makes them suspect that it's an arson-caused fire. We don't know if they've found some sort of a device or exactly what sort of physical evidence leads them to this conclusion. But at least that's what the witness information is. And, yes, they are looking at this person as a suspect of arson and murder.
BROWN: Frank, thank you very much -- CNN's Frank Buckley, who is with the firefighters in Rimforest.
Also with him tonight, and with us tonight as well, as you look at the scene of these San Bernardino fires, the San Bernardino fire marshal, Peter Brierty, is with us. Obviously, it is a busy night for him and for all the people who work with him and for him.
I'm not sure if you'll all agree. It does seem to me that, as we looked at those pictures, the dimensions of it all jumped out at us. Chief, it's good to have you with us.
Was this, on balance, a good day or a bad day?
PETER BRIERTY, FIRE MARSHAL, SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: This was a very difficult day for all involved.
It approached Highway 18. And on the other side of Highway 18 lie thousands of residences that folks have evacuated and are trusting to have in our care. And we fought very, very valiantly. And there's a lot of heroism shown today to keep that fire from going into the greater community of Lake Arrowhead. A lot of work was done. And the folks who fought that fire, those in command did an excellent job of keeping it out of the community.
BROWN: What are the signs like? The winds better today? The humidity up today? What's it like?
BRIERTY: Well, we'd like to have had those winds coming from the north to help us out, but they weren't. The smoke was going straight up. And we're getting some offshore breezes now that may be pushing the fires toward the community. So we're going to be extra watchful. We're going to put more folks on this fire and we're going to work even harder tomorrow.
BROWN: Just -- is it possible to say whether you're in a defensive posture in San Bernardino, or are you in an offensive posture where this fire is concerned?
BRIERTY: We're in a defensive mode. We're defending these homes.
If you would have heard the radio traffic today, you wouldn't believe the work that's going into these firefighters from all over. And particularly our local firefighters here in the mountains were just fighting like crazy to keep that thing out of the community. And they're doing everything possible, just a tremendous amount of work that was being done to save these homes.
BROWN: Forgive me for what is perhaps a naive question. But is there a lot of planning at this point? Or is it simply reacting to a report here and a report there? Are you able to plan an attack?
BRIERTY: Well, that's an excellent question, because the community and all the fire service up here, all the local fire departments working with the state and federal agencies have been working for months to put together community fire protection plans.
And those fire protection plans were put into use not only in the Crestline area -- and that's what saved Crestline -- but all across the rim, we've been using the work and all of the efforts that went into the planning and developing these plans. So, when it was time to go to work, everybody had where they needed to go, what they needed to do and where they knew exactly where to go.
So, in that respect, there was a tremendous amount of work that went into this. And I believe that is contributing significantly to the success of the operation here.
BROWN: Is it just -- is it more dangerous at night because it's dark for firefighters out there?
BRIERTY: Well, the folks that are doing the mop-up, there's problems with getting around in the dark.
But the fire tends to lay down. The humidity comes up. The wind starts to drop down quite a bit. And so the fire does what we call lay down. And, in this case, it's doing that tonight, not like it was before, when we had tremendous Santa Ana winds. We had incredibly low humidities at night. It was very, very dangerous. And tonight, the fire seems to be laying down a bit more.
The folks that have been fighting this all day, and actually started about 10:00 last night, when it jumped the highway the first time, and working straight through the night, have a chance to maybe get something to eat, bed down, get some good rest underneath them, and get back at it in the morning.
BROWN: Do you even allow yourself to think about when this will end?
BRIERTY: Not at this point.
A lot of our thoughts go out to the folks that have been evacuated. They've entrusted their belongings, their homes, their history of their families to us. And it's very difficult to get some rest when you're thinking about that. But the guys that have worked so hard, the men and women who have been working on this line, deserve a break. They deserve something to eat. They deserve a little bit of sleep tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Well, you all deserve it. I agree. You all deserve a break. And, in the larger sense, we hope you all get it. Thank you for your time. I know -- I can only imagine how busy it is for you and for all the people you're working for. Thank you very much, Peter Brierty, who is the...
BRIERTY: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you. The fire marshal in San Bernardino County.
If you've ever spent time there, as we move south, you know that the San Diego area is one of the loveliest spots on the West Coast, and not bad on the planet, either. No one doubts it will be someday again, but not yet, not now, certainly.
We head south toward San Diego and get the latest from CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): An 18-mile wall of flame bears down on five more San Diego County communities along Interstate 8, forcing more evacuations. Overmatched firefighters thought they would catch a break, as winds stayed calm. But there's just too much dry brush to burn and the fires are just too hot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're just trying to light little bits at a time, so we can control the fire, so it moves a little more slowly, so it doesn't just come all ripping through here at the same time.
MATTINGLY: In front of the fires, 150 San Diego County homes are threatened. Behind them, more than 600 lie in charred ruin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can walk in, but you cannot drive in at this time.
MATTINGLY: Residents of the Scripps Ranch community were allowed to walk to their homes for the first time since Sunday, when flames took 180 homes. The Paul family was at church when the evacuation order went out. They didn't have time to save much more than the dog.
TIM PAUL, FIRE VICTIM: I had thought it might just be ankle high. But I don't know -- maybe this is even worse. You can see -- recognize things.
MATTINGLY: And the human toll continues to hit home, 12 killed in San Diego County since the fires erupted, the University of California-San Diego Burn Center treating 14 for second- and third- degree burns, people unable to escape the fast-moving flames.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You couldn't imagine anything worse. It was a huge roar, fire, smoke -- my hair and everything was singing as we were running. And I didn't realize that for about an hour and a half that the burns were so bad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: And all eyes tonight are on the tourist town of Julian, which could very likely become the next victim of what has now grown into the largest and costliest fire in the history of San Diego County -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, just quickly, you've been there now for a couple days. Is it your impression that things are a little bit better today or a little bit worse today? Are we closer to the end?
MATTINGLY: That remains to be seen. There are three fires still burning in San Diego County. One of them is not growing, which is a source of a great deal of relief for firefighters.
But two others continue to cause them problems, including the Cedar Fire, which is bearing down on those communities tonight. That fire, the Cedar Fire, was actually responsible for the damage you see behind me back on Sunday. So it is still very strong and still causing a great deal of problems here in San Diego.
BROWN: David, thank you and the work of your colleagues as well all day and for the last several days. Thank you.
We're joined from Sacramento, California, by Andrea Tuttle, who is the director of California's Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
On balance, Ms. Tuttle, a better day today than yesterday or impossible to say at this point?
ANDREA TUTTLE, DIRECTOR, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF FORESTRY AND FIRE PROTECTION: It's very difficult to tell.
What's happening is that we're having changing conditions. These last several days, we've been fighting a fire that's been coming out of the mountains towards the shoreline and driving the flames from the forest areas into the communities. Now we're heading into a period where the weather is changing. And today is a day of transition. Tomorrow, we're worried about it.
And, in the next several days, the winds are moving back inland, which will drive the fires back up into the mountains. That's what you were hearing is happening in Julian. And that's what's happening in the Lake Arrowhead-San Bernardino area.
BROWN: What is it you fear most? What's the phone call that scares you the most right now?
TUTTLE: There is one part of this job that everyone absolutely hates. And those are the news of injuries or fatalities.
We stress very hard the safety message with our firefighters. This is true throughout the firefighting community. We have briefed all of our firefighters who are moving into Southern California that they will be seeing conditions that are of historic proportions. They haven't seen this intensity of fire before. We are sending out the safety message. There are some tremendous acts of heroism and very hard firefighting that's going on there now. BROWN: Just in 10, 15 seconds, do you imagine by the weekend that things will be better? Or do you not allow yourself to even consider the question?
TUTTLE: Remember that we're fighting nine enormous fires here. And every one of them would be a major event on its own. And so, we are playing it day by day. We have constant briefings and updates. We're dispatching resources as fast as we can to where they are needed.
I'm particularly concerned about the Arrowhead area and the Julian area, although we're still hard fighting fires down in the residential communities on the lower slopes.
BROWN: Ms. Tuttle, we appreciate your time, particularly on short notice. Thanks for joining us. And we hope the weather gives you a break. You could use one.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: more attacks in Iraq and the question of who's behind it all, as the president meets with reporters today.
And later: the president of Russia on the attack against the biggest capitalists in his country. What's behind that?
From Washington, D.C., this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Little end to the grim headlines from Iraq. American officials today said the deputy mayor of Baghdad was gunned down over the weekend in a drive-by shooting. And, in Fallujah today, a car bomb went off on a busy street. Four people died. It happened across the street from a school and a police station, no word yet on which, if either, the suicide bomber had in mind.
In fact, as we heard someone point out earlier today, no one seems to take any responsibility for these attacks. For them, apparently, it is better left a mystery.
On the program last night, David Gergen, who has helped presidents of both parties fashion their public message, worried that President Bush needed a reality check. He said calling the violence in Iraq a byproduct of American success does neither the country, nor the White House any favors. Indeed, the president's comments yesterday have caused all manner of reaction. And he reiterated those comments again today.
Here is our senior White House correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The president repeatedly defended his handling of postwar Iraq, but did concede a fresh wave of deadly attacks is forcing some changes.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The strategy remains the same. The tactics to respond to, more suiciders driving cars will alter on the ground.
KING: Mr. Bush said foreign terrorists are at least in part to blame. But while aides have privately criticized Iran and Syria, Mr. Bush's response was muted.
BUSH: We're working closely with those countries to let them know that we expect them to enforce borders, prevent people from coming across borders, if in fact we catch them doing that.
KING: In a 48-minute Rose Garden news conference, the president cited progress in rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure and social safety net and called the attacks an effort to scare humanitarian groups and international troops away.
BUSH: This country will stay the course. We'll do our job.
KING: Democrats were not swayed.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: If this is progress, I don't know how much more progress we can take. I would also say that there is a growing credibility gap between what is said and what is being done.
KING: The president said he had no regrets about visiting an aircraft carrier back in May to declare major combat in Iraq over, but also distanced himself from this banner, saying it was hung by the Navy to salute the sailors on the carrier, not by the White House to send a broader message.
Since that speech, four soldiers a week on average have died in Iraq from hostile fire; 53 percent of Americans say that is not acceptable; 45 percent say it is acceptable, given the difficult circumstances. And Mr. Bush is losing ground on another key question. Back in April, 58 percent of Americans said the Iraq war made the United States safer from terrorism, but only 45 percent say safer now. And 43 percent say the Iraq war made the United States less safe from terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: The president's top advisers held an urgent strategy session this afternoon at the White House to debate those tactical changes the president spoke of. And also this evening from the White House, a retreat from the president's description of just how that "Mission Accomplished" banner made its way to the USS Abraham Lincoln. It was the Navy's idea, but the White House now concedes that it quickly embraced that idea and not only paid for the banner, but produced it as well -- Aaron.
BROWN: Just as a practical matter, as you know better than anyone, nothing that happens in a presidential speech happens by accident, not the location, not the direction the ship was facing, none of it.
KING: Exactly right. The president made this decision late this morning to actually have this news conference, only the tenth full- blown news conference of his presidency.
This dispute even over the banner will tend to probably be forgotten in days, but it was the first time the president himself said, oh, he didn't put that banner there. The Navy put that there. He's been asked this question many times before. So it was odd that the president decided to say that today. And then, of course, his aides had to quickly retreat. As one aide put it: We're in a bit of a bad stretch right now. And when you're a bad stretch, even the little things go wrong.
BROWN: John, thank you -- long day for you as well -- our senior White House correspondent, John King, tonight.
More on Iraq as we continue from Washington, reaction to the president's comments today from two members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Republican Chuck Hagel and Democrat Joe Biden.
You'll hear from both, as NEWSNIGHT continues from the capital.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: When the Senate voted to authorize the president to use military force against Iraq, Republican Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Democrat Joe Biden of Delaware were both yeas. They were important votes, because both are members of the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, which doesn't mean that either has been reluctant to criticize what's happened in the 54 weeks since then.
They both found the prewar intelligence dubious. Both found the postwar planning deficient. And both had problems with the president's argument that the recent attacks are a sign of American success.
We sat down with both late this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Well, I think the president's got to get a little more realistic about it.
The series of attacks are evidence that we don't have the security nailed down, particularly in Baghdad. Nothing else is going to happen in Iraq. We're not going to get any of the rest of what we intend on doing, which is to solidify that country, without security. The president seems to have made a bit of a U-turn here in terms of his policy, seems to genuinely be committed to the notion of trying to get the international community in now.
And I wish he would be a little more realistic with the American people about what is at stake. And it's well beyond terror.
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I understand that the president has to continue to rally the American people, if for no other reason than it's going to take, as he has said, as we all know, a very deep, sustained commitment in Iraq, Afghanistan, Middle East peace process. So the president was in a difficult spot yesterday and today. And he had to say something that was in, I suspect, his mind uplifting.
Now, the reality is -- I think as Senator Biden has noted -- is that the incidence of attack on our troops and on other facilities, that incidence rate is increasing. We're losing more people, more wounded. I happen to believe we need more help. I think we need more troops.
But we also need to do something else. And that is, in my opinion, bring back a good number of the Iraqi army as quickly as we can and get them trained up, get them committed up, not Saddam's Republican Guard, but the Iraqis themselves, because the fact is, the sooner the Iraqis are in a position to provide stability for themselves, their country, and are able to govern, the sooner we get out, the sooner we are not seen as oppressors or occupiers. And that should be the goal.
BROWN: When you said more troops on the ground, are you talking about more American troops on the ground?
HAGEL: I think you are going to need more American troops on the ground.
BROWN: Where do they come from?
HAGEL: Well, that's a problem. A full recognition that we need more troops, I think, has to be made.
BIDEN: Right now, something has to be done about security on the ground. And that means more forces. We called for that. John McCain, all of us called for that about a month ago. We were told, no, no, we don't need it. We don't need it.
Well, how are you going to secure the situation without more forces?
BROWN: Would you agree, Senator, that the clock is ticking and the time -- that we're really talking maybe three to six months before the Iraqi people lose any faith at all in the Americans?
HAGEL: Well, I think that's correct.
The Iraqi people must see a quantifiable quality-of-life increase in their daily existence. They must have a sense of confidence, at least to some extent, in the future of their country, as to where is their country going, who will govern their country.
BIDEN: I think success will breed success here.
But the president has to, it seems to me, move much more rapidly, in terms of getting more stability on the ground and be willing to jettison this notion that they seem to cling to that we don't need more forces now to stabilize things.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senators Biden and Hagel, we talked to them over at the Capitol this afternoon, late this afternoon.
As NEWSNIGHT continues, a little later in the program, quite close to the end, in fact, we'll check morning papers.
Up next, the shocking story, if you will, of a Chicago pediatrician under arrest tonight for child pornography.
A break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And lots of NEWSNIGHT still ahead. We'll end it all with morning papers. And up next, the story of a pediatrician and child pornography.
A break first. From Washington, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It was interesting yesterday. It's still interesting today.
There is a great Norman Rockwell picture of an old country doctor listening to the chest of a doll being held up by a little girl. As all Rockwells are, the picture is of an ideal.
Today, from Chicago, a different picture, not a doctor who liked kids, but perhaps one who liked kids the wrong way.
Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a house call by federal agents at the Chicago apartment of pediatrician Marc Watzman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty much removing evidence from the house. They're taking out the computer. They had maybe two vans here that they're filling up with boxes. They took his garbage.
LOTHIAN: What authorities allegedly uncovered behind this door was a secret life filled with child pornography. According to the criminal complaint, two computers with 3,000 to 5,000 sexual explicit photos of children as young as eight; 200,000 deleted images, some of them recovered, showed children having sex.
Encrypted DVDs requiring a secret code to view. And an evidence eliminator program. This week, the 37-year-old doctor who last worked at this Illinois hospital was charged with possession of child pornography.
PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY: What I want to make clear to everyone is that Dr. Watzman is not charged with any offense against any children. It is not alleged that he has taken any illegal conduct against any children. LOTHIAN: In court, federal prosecutors admitted they had more questions than answers in this case. Inside the doctor's apartment and his car agents say they found morphine, Viagra, and drugs that caused temporary paralysis and unconsciousness.
(on camera): But no drug charges have been filed. His attorney says the narcotics are tools of the trade for his other job as an anesthesiologist.
(voice-over): If convicted on child pornography charges, he faces up to five years behind bars.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few more items now from around the country, starting with the sniper trial. Jurors today heard from witnesses to a number of shootings in person and on 911 recordings. John Muhammad, on trial only for one killing, but prosecutors need evidence of other crimes to make their case for the death penalty.
Congressional hearings today in New York, where lawmakers heard from people who worked in the rubble of ground zero now suffering debilitating illnesses. Many have difficulty breathing. Some can no longer work. The hearings focused in part on why some $90 million in federal money for treating illnesses such as these remains tied up in Washington.
And not far from there, wine, women and song and a bunch of jurors who didn't look much amused. Some smirked, others giggled, as the prosecution played for them a videotape of the birthday party that Dennis Kozlowski threw for his wife. The former CEO of Tyco Industries is on trial, you'll recall, for, in so many words, plundering the company. And this, says the government, the birthday party, was a good example.
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the crackdown in Russia. Why are the richest people in the country being arrested or driven into exile?
A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: For anyone who grew up during the Cold War, just saying the words Russian stock market is saying a mouthful. There it is, not far from Lenin's Tomb. And it rose a bit today -- the market, not the tomb -- this after tanking yesterday on the arrest of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who runs Yukos oil, one of Russia's largest companies, and who himself is one of the richest men in the world.
He is also the last of a dying breed, it seems, what the Russians call oligarchs. One by one, they've been arrested or driven into exile for tax evasion or fraud or, many would say, for becoming a political threat to Russia's president, which is why the market fell. Investors worry that free enterprise in Russia won't be free much longer and that, somewhere, old comrade Lenin is smiling.
Here is CNN's Jill Dougherty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): They weren't always oligarchs. Back in the old Soviet Union, nobody was. But as the USSR disintegrated, the men who would become modern Russia's tycoons made their move.
Boris Berezovsky, mathematician-turned-car-dealer, by the end of the 1980's, his millions had turned to billions. He became a political king- maker, engineering the presidential elections of Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin.
But with his wheeling and dealing, he was too big a threat. Berezovsky is now in exile in London, an avowed enemy of President Putin.
BORIS BEREZOVSKY, FMR. OLIGARCH: Every totalitarian system -- and Putin created Russia's totalitarian system -- fights against independent people, and for sure people who have a lot of money, more independent people, could not have a lot of money.
DOUGHERTY: Oligarch Vladimir Gusinsky. At the top of his powers, he controlled television, radio and print media, using them to oppose Vladimir Putin. Accused of money-laundering and fraud, he fled Russia three years ago.
Now it's Mikhail Khodorkovsky's turn to face the wrath of Vladimir Putin. The head of Yukos Oil Company, this oligarch's wealth an estimated $8 billion, and political power unprecedented, leading him to openly defy Vladimir Putin.
Since July, prosecutors have carried out a series of what they say are legal raids and searches of Yukos offices and its affiliate, looking for evidence of fraud and tax evasion, arresting one key shareholder who remains in custody and filing charges against a top Yukos manager.
Yukos Oil Company says the arrest of Russia's richest man was carried out like an anti-terrorist operation, his plane surrounded by armed agents from the Federal Security Service, dressed in camouflage and black uniforms, after a touchdown for refueling in Novosibirsk, Siberia.
Earlier this month, Mikhail Khodorkovsky denied he broke the law.
MIKHAIL KHODORKOVSKY, YUKOS OIL CO. (through translator): What do they want? If they want me to go into political exile, I will not do it. If they want to send me to prison, then with the current system as being put on display, it would be easy enough for them to do so.
DOUGHERTY: He's now in jail facing charges of fraud and tax evasion totaling more than $1 billion, but some financial experts point to another factor: political ambitions.
WILLIAM BROWDER, HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: All of the sudden, we were into election season and we see that one oligarch group is sponsoring all sorts of political parties, including the Communists, and apparently that truce was broken. And so we ended up seeing Putin doing the same thing to Khodorkovsky essentially that he did to Berezovsky and Gusinsky.
DOUGHERTY: The message, Kremlin watchers say, is unmistakable.
ULLA SHEVTSOVA, POLITICAL ANALYST: it will be a lesson to all Russian tycoons -- if you have political ambitions, if you want to change the rules of the game, you are vulnerable.
DOUGHERTY (on camera): But where other tycoons fled or were exiled abroad, Mikhail Khodorkovsky vows he's staying in Russia, setting the stage for the biggest clash yet between the president and the oligarchs.
Jill Dougherty, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Elsewhere in Russia, the race goes on, a race to save the lives of the last 13 miners trapped underground. Rescuers have managed to drill a small hole into the areas where the miners took refuge when the rest of the mine flooded. They encountered contaminated air and, as a result, have decided to hold off on using explosives to create a rescue shaft. The miners have been down there, trapped, for five days.
If your cell phone stops working tomorrow afternoon, blame the sun. Another solar flare is heading this way. Astronomers say it's a doozy -- they probably used a different word, but we decided on doozy -- the result of the biggest solar explosion in 30 years.
And, no, don't adjust your set. They're supposed to look that way. Barcelona, Spain, today saw the 150 crazy cars take place in, what else, the Crazy Car Race.
BROWN: Still ahead: morning papers -- or maybe morning paper. It depends on the printer.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check a couple of morning papers. Here's the truth. We always tell you the truth, right? A little bit of a printer problem or a computer problem or something. And we wanted to save some time to update the fire situation in California. And it's funny how those two things came together to give us two newspapers.
"The Australian," that would be "The Australian," paper in Australia. What intrigued me here is that this actually could have been an American newspaper. "French Terror Suspect Linked to Afghan Assassinations. Have We Forgotten Bali So Quickly?" You'll recall, in the Bali attack, a lot of Australians perished. "The threat is real. Australia can expect to be targeted" -- a terrorism story.
And an immigration story, "Visas For Nine in 10 Refugees." Nine out of 10 people -- boat people who come to Australia are given at least three years of sanctuary there.
"The Detroit News." This would be the other paper tonight, folks -- "The Detroit News." "Big Three Win With New Fuel Rules. Automakers Say Lower Standards Save Jobs, Boost Safety. Environmentalists Disappointed." I had not seen this story, honestly, today, but I guess that will be another campaign issue. The other story I liked here that does seem to play against the general feel of the economic news these day, "Compuware Slashes Pay and Benefits," a software company based in Detroit, I gather, "Tells 9,300 Employees Big Wage Cuts, New Co-Pays on Health Insurance Will Save Jobs."
So a couple of newspapers for you.
A lot still going on out west in California. We'll take a break and update the situation there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Before we go tonight, we want to bring you up to the minute on our top story tonight, the fires in Southern California. These are pictures from the Simi Valley, Stevenson Ranch there, live pictures, now coming up on 8:00 in the evening on the West Coast.
For Simi Valley, the north -- in the north, San Diego to the south, 13 major fires continue to burn. Nearly 2,000 homes have been destroyed; 16 people have died. And none of the people we talked to tonight, not a one, gave us any reason to believe that this is turning, that we have reached somehow the point of the worst and we can now look forward to something better. None would say that.
They talked only about hope, that the weather would improve a bit, that it would get more humid, that the winds would come down from the north, essentially pushing the fire back onto itself. But that isn't the case tonight. The winds are down, as they generally are at night. The air is cooler, obviously. There is a little more humidity from an ocean breeze. All of that is helpful.
But none of it is decisive at this point. And so the fight goes on, fire crews tired, exhausted, and living dangerously in Southern California. That is certainly going to be our lead tomorrow.
Also tomorrow, we expect to report on the preliminary hearing in the Scott Peterson case. That will certainly come up at some point in the program as well.
Good to have you with us tonight. For our international viewers, "World News" is coming up next, and, here in the states, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT."
Good night.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Defends Iraqi Policy; Interview With Senator Joseph Biden, Senator Chuck Hagel>
Aired October 28, 2003 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
Said one official in California today, referring to a single fire, that it is an epic fire. And it is clearly not the only one burning. The fight has gone on so long and so hard that, in some cases, in some places, firefighters are being pulled off the lines for rest, even though it means homes will be lost -- better homes than lives.
Again, tonight, the California fires dominate the first section of the program and begin "The Whip."
We go to Porter Ranch, California, first, CNN's Martin Savidge.
Marty, a headline from you tonight.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you, Aaron.
For the first time since the Simi Valley fire began on Saturday, fire crews today went on the offensive. That's not to say, though, that there weren't some close calls -- Aaron.
BROWN: Marty, we'll get to you at the top tonight.
Next to Rimforest. CNN's Frank Buckley is there.
Frank, an interesting day for you. A headline please.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, firefighters here in the mountains above San Bernardino are doing their best to dig in, to stop this monster fire from roaring into Lake Arrowhead. If they fail, hundreds of homes could be lost -- Aaron.
BROWN: Frank, thank you.
CNN's David Mattingly with us again tonight to the south, near the San Diego area.
David, what's your headline?
DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, hundreds of fire victims got their first looks at what's left of the their homes here in San Diego County. And all indications are tonight that many more people may soon join them, as a now record fire continues to burn here -- Aaron. BROWN: David, thank you.
And for the president, the fires are political and they are in Iraq. Our senior White House correspondent, John King, has the watch tonight.
John, a headline from you.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, in a 48- minute news conference at the White House, the president repeatedly defended his policy and his strategy in postwar Iraq. But he did the first time today concede some tactical changes are necessarily, after a wave of deadly bombings -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.
Also tonight, we'll talk with Senators Chuck Hagel and Joe Biden, get their take on what's happening in Iraq.
Later, the story of a Chicago pediatrician under arrest tonight for child pornography.
And a crackdown on the rich in Russia. Why are the biggest capitalists there under attack?
And, as always, something less rare than hen's teeth -- huh? -- morning papers -- all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin with the fires. They've been burning for days now east and north and south of Los Angeles, 13 fires in all, more than 500,000 acres burned. Getting a grip on the magnitude of a story like this is not easy, nor is touching all the details. There are extremes of scale at work here from the unimaginably huge to the heartbreakingly small.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Let's start, then, with something small, something everyone can grasp. If a dozen homes burned in one day in your community, it would be bannered across the front page of the paper and lead every newscast. In the Mountain Fire north of San Diego, about a dozen homes have been destroyed, and, as far as we can tell, not a single cameraman has bothered to show up.
So now let's raise the ante some. North of Los Angeles, in the Simi Valley, the Santa Ana winds have eased and Air Force tankers can now attack the Simi Valley fire, where 16 homes have been destroyed, despite 36 hours of effort from exhausted firefighters. More than 500 homes have fallen to the enormous fires burning near San Bernardino, east of L.A. Four people have died.
Here, the winds turned westward, away from Los Angeles, but toward the mountain communities of Rimforest and Lake Arrowhead. Finally, just south of where we started, the Cedar Fire has marched through San Diego's priciest homes, like Sherman through Atlanta, 900 homes gone, at least a dozen lives lost.
Perhaps now, the sheer numbers mean a little more, 12,000 firefighters working the lines; 16 people have died already, at last count, more than 1,500 homes destroyed. It's not really the kind of thing you want to predict, but it's a good bet that the previous record, the $1.75 billion destroyed in the Oakland Hills Fire back in 1991, is about to be eclipsed.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And no one holds out much hope otherwise. Neither can the experts say with any precision where things will go from here. The answers literally change with the shifting winds, which was a blessing today and a curse.
From Porter Ranch, near the Simi Valley, here's CNN's Martin Savidge.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE (voice-over): By the end of the day Tuesday, there was a new and dangerous twist in the Simi Valley Fire, as the flames took a new turn. No longer driven by Santa Ana winds, the blaze began moving in the opposite direction. Stevenson Ranch in L.A. County had been relatively safe. Now the community was in the fire's new path.
Firefighters rushed in. Residents rushed out. The day had started with hope and promise. For the first time since the Simi Valley fire began Saturday, fire teams went on the offensive. Six large bulldozers worked to draw a line in the dirt around the massive perimeter, quickly doing what would have taken hundreds of firefighters hours of back-breaking labor.
From the air, helicopters and airplanes kept up a near nonstop barrage of water and flame retardant, hoping to push the fire back on its heels. Just off Highway 118, by the Toys "R" Us and Best Buys, an instant heliport was born. Just up the road in a park, another landing zone. From here, firefighting choppers can reload, drop, and repeat in minutes, million-dollar birds protecting million-dollar homes.
Veteran L.A. County Black Hawk pilot Vance Calvin (ph) says they can do 100 runs before the sun goes down, saying they don't fight fires. They buy time.
We try to keep it away from people's homes, away from valuable things. Life, property are essential.
SAVIDGE: Just as our interview ended, his pager goes off.
(PAGER BEEPING)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Thanks.
SAVIDGE: His rest is over.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SAVIDGE: That meant that Calvin was once again on the run, this time heading for his helicopter, which was taking off for another hot spot.
We should point out, that fire at Stevenson Ranch now has been contained. That's good news. The danger for the homes there has pretty much passed, Aaron. And the Simi Valley Fire has not been greatly destructive. Only 16 homes have gone up in flames. About 95,000 acres have been burned.
However, the thing to keep in mind here is that things could change. Primarily, they've had good fortune and good firefighting. But a simple shift in the wind, as you point out, could push this fire, say, in the direction of San Fernando Valley, where over one million people live -- Aaron.
BROWN: Marty, and if we just stay on the live shot for a second, it's an unbelievable scene. How far from where you are -- or maybe, more importantly, where the fire is -- is the San Fernando Valley, which is hugely populated?
SAVIDGE: It's probably about maybe 10, 15 miles from here. There would be certain terrain that it would have to cross over. Some of that is area that has already been burned.
But it's not out of the realm of possibility, especially if the Santa Ana winds were to kick back in again. The problem is, right now, the winds are drifting. The fire itself is drifting. It's moving over terrain and moving with the onshore breeze, which is now blowing in from the west.
BROWN: Marty, thank you very much. Nice work -- Martin Savidge tonight.
You heard a bit of it in Marty's report, firefighters today speaking of winning little victories, a house here or a school there, holding a ridge line. Many have been at it for days now. They are tired. And tired people can make mistakes. So crews grab sleep whenever and wherever they can. It's not often.
South and to the west now, to Rimforest, here is CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY (voice-over): Firefighters went toe-to-toe with the bully, standing up to flames that would have easily consumed homes, if they hadn't been there.
ALAN MACKAY, SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: It was an incredible save. This was probably one of the best saves I've seen through this whole fire.
BUCKLEY: Huge flames rose up along Highway 18, the rim of the world, as they call it in these mountains above San Bernardino. But these fires were actually part of the firefighting effort, the result of backfires set by firefighters to burn up what vegetation they could on their terms, creating a firebreak to stop the progress of the blaze that's consumed more than 500 homes.
Strike teams knocked down spot fires. A break in the winds allowed air attack on the fire, the planes dropping on top of some firefighters in one instance, when the flames got too close.
STEVE ELENBURG, STRIKE TEAM LEADER: We were just working structure protection, laying a hose, lay down around the house. And it kind of blew up, so they dropped on us.
BUCKLEY: All of the effort appreciated by residents of the mountain communities, like 85-year-old Putnam Henck, who believes firefighters are the same everywhere.
PUTNAM HENCK, AREA RESIDENT: I think every fire department, no matter where it is, when the time came would be heroes.
BUCKLEY: Despite the efforts, though, there were losses. A conference center and several homes did burn when winds didn't cooperate. A news van from KNBC-TV went up in flames, the photographer and reporter uninjured. And even when homes and humans were saved, the fire left its scars.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: Now, firefighters were desperate to keep this fire south of Highway 18 up here at the 5,000- to 6,000-foot elevation, because beyond Highway 18 is the village, the vacation resort area of Lake Arrowhead.
I said earlier that hundreds of homes are threatened. Actually, thousands of homes are threatened. Now, the fire did jump Highway 18 this evening in several spots. They are jumping on those spot fires as they occur. So far, they have contained the spot fires that have taken place.
But just to give you a sense of how seriously they are taking this, firefighters who were finally supposed to get some rest tonight, to get some sleep in a hotel, are not going to be getting that sleep tonight. They're supposed to be on the front lines.
Meanwhile, authorities looking into the cause of this fire have released a composite sketch of someone they say is a suspect. He is a man described as a white male in his 20s. He was seen with one other person driving a light gray-colored van near the origin of the Old Fire, throwing something out of this van and then quickly driving away.
Aaron, because four people have died in these fires, he is wanted on suspicion of not only arson, but also of murder -- Aaron.
BROWN: So they believe that at least one of those fires was not accidentally set by humans, but deliberately set?
BUCKLEY: That's what they're thinking.
I mean, it's certainly based on what the witnesses have said. This idea that someone was actually throwing something from a van near the origin of the fire makes them suspect that it's an arson-caused fire. We don't know if they've found some sort of a device or exactly what sort of physical evidence leads them to this conclusion. But at least that's what the witness information is. And, yes, they are looking at this person as a suspect of arson and murder.
BROWN: Frank, thank you very much -- CNN's Frank Buckley, who is with the firefighters in Rimforest.
Also with him tonight, and with us tonight as well, as you look at the scene of these San Bernardino fires, the San Bernardino fire marshal, Peter Brierty, is with us. Obviously, it is a busy night for him and for all the people who work with him and for him.
I'm not sure if you'll all agree. It does seem to me that, as we looked at those pictures, the dimensions of it all jumped out at us. Chief, it's good to have you with us.
Was this, on balance, a good day or a bad day?
PETER BRIERTY, FIRE MARSHAL, SAN BERNARDINO COUNTY FIRE DEPARTMENT: This was a very difficult day for all involved.
It approached Highway 18. And on the other side of Highway 18 lie thousands of residences that folks have evacuated and are trusting to have in our care. And we fought very, very valiantly. And there's a lot of heroism shown today to keep that fire from going into the greater community of Lake Arrowhead. A lot of work was done. And the folks who fought that fire, those in command did an excellent job of keeping it out of the community.
BROWN: What are the signs like? The winds better today? The humidity up today? What's it like?
BRIERTY: Well, we'd like to have had those winds coming from the north to help us out, but they weren't. The smoke was going straight up. And we're getting some offshore breezes now that may be pushing the fires toward the community. So we're going to be extra watchful. We're going to put more folks on this fire and we're going to work even harder tomorrow.
BROWN: Just -- is it possible to say whether you're in a defensive posture in San Bernardino, or are you in an offensive posture where this fire is concerned?
BRIERTY: We're in a defensive mode. We're defending these homes.
If you would have heard the radio traffic today, you wouldn't believe the work that's going into these firefighters from all over. And particularly our local firefighters here in the mountains were just fighting like crazy to keep that thing out of the community. And they're doing everything possible, just a tremendous amount of work that was being done to save these homes.
BROWN: Forgive me for what is perhaps a naive question. But is there a lot of planning at this point? Or is it simply reacting to a report here and a report there? Are you able to plan an attack?
BRIERTY: Well, that's an excellent question, because the community and all the fire service up here, all the local fire departments working with the state and federal agencies have been working for months to put together community fire protection plans.
And those fire protection plans were put into use not only in the Crestline area -- and that's what saved Crestline -- but all across the rim, we've been using the work and all of the efforts that went into the planning and developing these plans. So, when it was time to go to work, everybody had where they needed to go, what they needed to do and where they knew exactly where to go.
So, in that respect, there was a tremendous amount of work that went into this. And I believe that is contributing significantly to the success of the operation here.
BROWN: Is it just -- is it more dangerous at night because it's dark for firefighters out there?
BRIERTY: Well, the folks that are doing the mop-up, there's problems with getting around in the dark.
But the fire tends to lay down. The humidity comes up. The wind starts to drop down quite a bit. And so the fire does what we call lay down. And, in this case, it's doing that tonight, not like it was before, when we had tremendous Santa Ana winds. We had incredibly low humidities at night. It was very, very dangerous. And tonight, the fire seems to be laying down a bit more.
The folks that have been fighting this all day, and actually started about 10:00 last night, when it jumped the highway the first time, and working straight through the night, have a chance to maybe get something to eat, bed down, get some good rest underneath them, and get back at it in the morning.
BROWN: Do you even allow yourself to think about when this will end?
BRIERTY: Not at this point.
A lot of our thoughts go out to the folks that have been evacuated. They've entrusted their belongings, their homes, their history of their families to us. And it's very difficult to get some rest when you're thinking about that. But the guys that have worked so hard, the men and women who have been working on this line, deserve a break. They deserve something to eat. They deserve a little bit of sleep tonight.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: Well, you all deserve it. I agree. You all deserve a break. And, in the larger sense, we hope you all get it. Thank you for your time. I know -- I can only imagine how busy it is for you and for all the people you're working for. Thank you very much, Peter Brierty, who is the...
BRIERTY: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you. The fire marshal in San Bernardino County.
If you've ever spent time there, as we move south, you know that the San Diego area is one of the loveliest spots on the West Coast, and not bad on the planet, either. No one doubts it will be someday again, but not yet, not now, certainly.
We head south toward San Diego and get the latest from CNN's David Mattingly.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY (voice-over): An 18-mile wall of flame bears down on five more San Diego County communities along Interstate 8, forcing more evacuations. Overmatched firefighters thought they would catch a break, as winds stayed calm. But there's just too much dry brush to burn and the fires are just too hot.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're just trying to light little bits at a time, so we can control the fire, so it moves a little more slowly, so it doesn't just come all ripping through here at the same time.
MATTINGLY: In front of the fires, 150 San Diego County homes are threatened. Behind them, more than 600 lie in charred ruin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can walk in, but you cannot drive in at this time.
MATTINGLY: Residents of the Scripps Ranch community were allowed to walk to their homes for the first time since Sunday, when flames took 180 homes. The Paul family was at church when the evacuation order went out. They didn't have time to save much more than the dog.
TIM PAUL, FIRE VICTIM: I had thought it might just be ankle high. But I don't know -- maybe this is even worse. You can see -- recognize things.
MATTINGLY: And the human toll continues to hit home, 12 killed in San Diego County since the fires erupted, the University of California-San Diego Burn Center treating 14 for second- and third- degree burns, people unable to escape the fast-moving flames.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You couldn't imagine anything worse. It was a huge roar, fire, smoke -- my hair and everything was singing as we were running. And I didn't realize that for about an hour and a half that the burns were so bad.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MATTINGLY: And all eyes tonight are on the tourist town of Julian, which could very likely become the next victim of what has now grown into the largest and costliest fire in the history of San Diego County -- Aaron.
BROWN: David, just quickly, you've been there now for a couple days. Is it your impression that things are a little bit better today or a little bit worse today? Are we closer to the end?
MATTINGLY: That remains to be seen. There are three fires still burning in San Diego County. One of them is not growing, which is a source of a great deal of relief for firefighters.
But two others continue to cause them problems, including the Cedar Fire, which is bearing down on those communities tonight. That fire, the Cedar Fire, was actually responsible for the damage you see behind me back on Sunday. So it is still very strong and still causing a great deal of problems here in San Diego.
BROWN: David, thank you and the work of your colleagues as well all day and for the last several days. Thank you.
We're joined from Sacramento, California, by Andrea Tuttle, who is the director of California's Department of Forestry and Fire Protection.
On balance, Ms. Tuttle, a better day today than yesterday or impossible to say at this point?
ANDREA TUTTLE, DIRECTOR, CALIFORNIA DEPARTMENT OF FORESTRY AND FIRE PROTECTION: It's very difficult to tell.
What's happening is that we're having changing conditions. These last several days, we've been fighting a fire that's been coming out of the mountains towards the shoreline and driving the flames from the forest areas into the communities. Now we're heading into a period where the weather is changing. And today is a day of transition. Tomorrow, we're worried about it.
And, in the next several days, the winds are moving back inland, which will drive the fires back up into the mountains. That's what you were hearing is happening in Julian. And that's what's happening in the Lake Arrowhead-San Bernardino area.
BROWN: What is it you fear most? What's the phone call that scares you the most right now?
TUTTLE: There is one part of this job that everyone absolutely hates. And those are the news of injuries or fatalities.
We stress very hard the safety message with our firefighters. This is true throughout the firefighting community. We have briefed all of our firefighters who are moving into Southern California that they will be seeing conditions that are of historic proportions. They haven't seen this intensity of fire before. We are sending out the safety message. There are some tremendous acts of heroism and very hard firefighting that's going on there now. BROWN: Just in 10, 15 seconds, do you imagine by the weekend that things will be better? Or do you not allow yourself to even consider the question?
TUTTLE: Remember that we're fighting nine enormous fires here. And every one of them would be a major event on its own. And so, we are playing it day by day. We have constant briefings and updates. We're dispatching resources as fast as we can to where they are needed.
I'm particularly concerned about the Arrowhead area and the Julian area, although we're still hard fighting fires down in the residential communities on the lower slopes.
BROWN: Ms. Tuttle, we appreciate your time, particularly on short notice. Thanks for joining us. And we hope the weather gives you a break. You could use one.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: more attacks in Iraq and the question of who's behind it all, as the president meets with reporters today.
And later: the president of Russia on the attack against the biggest capitalists in his country. What's behind that?
From Washington, D.C., this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Little end to the grim headlines from Iraq. American officials today said the deputy mayor of Baghdad was gunned down over the weekend in a drive-by shooting. And, in Fallujah today, a car bomb went off on a busy street. Four people died. It happened across the street from a school and a police station, no word yet on which, if either, the suicide bomber had in mind.
In fact, as we heard someone point out earlier today, no one seems to take any responsibility for these attacks. For them, apparently, it is better left a mystery.
On the program last night, David Gergen, who has helped presidents of both parties fashion their public message, worried that President Bush needed a reality check. He said calling the violence in Iraq a byproduct of American success does neither the country, nor the White House any favors. Indeed, the president's comments yesterday have caused all manner of reaction. And he reiterated those comments again today.
Here is our senior White House correspondent, John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): The president repeatedly defended his handling of postwar Iraq, but did concede a fresh wave of deadly attacks is forcing some changes.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The strategy remains the same. The tactics to respond to, more suiciders driving cars will alter on the ground.
KING: Mr. Bush said foreign terrorists are at least in part to blame. But while aides have privately criticized Iran and Syria, Mr. Bush's response was muted.
BUSH: We're working closely with those countries to let them know that we expect them to enforce borders, prevent people from coming across borders, if in fact we catch them doing that.
KING: In a 48-minute Rose Garden news conference, the president cited progress in rebuilding Iraq's infrastructure and social safety net and called the attacks an effort to scare humanitarian groups and international troops away.
BUSH: This country will stay the course. We'll do our job.
KING: Democrats were not swayed.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: If this is progress, I don't know how much more progress we can take. I would also say that there is a growing credibility gap between what is said and what is being done.
KING: The president said he had no regrets about visiting an aircraft carrier back in May to declare major combat in Iraq over, but also distanced himself from this banner, saying it was hung by the Navy to salute the sailors on the carrier, not by the White House to send a broader message.
Since that speech, four soldiers a week on average have died in Iraq from hostile fire; 53 percent of Americans say that is not acceptable; 45 percent say it is acceptable, given the difficult circumstances. And Mr. Bush is losing ground on another key question. Back in April, 58 percent of Americans said the Iraq war made the United States safer from terrorism, but only 45 percent say safer now. And 43 percent say the Iraq war made the United States less safe from terrorism.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: The president's top advisers held an urgent strategy session this afternoon at the White House to debate those tactical changes the president spoke of. And also this evening from the White House, a retreat from the president's description of just how that "Mission Accomplished" banner made its way to the USS Abraham Lincoln. It was the Navy's idea, but the White House now concedes that it quickly embraced that idea and not only paid for the banner, but produced it as well -- Aaron.
BROWN: Just as a practical matter, as you know better than anyone, nothing that happens in a presidential speech happens by accident, not the location, not the direction the ship was facing, none of it.
KING: Exactly right. The president made this decision late this morning to actually have this news conference, only the tenth full- blown news conference of his presidency.
This dispute even over the banner will tend to probably be forgotten in days, but it was the first time the president himself said, oh, he didn't put that banner there. The Navy put that there. He's been asked this question many times before. So it was odd that the president decided to say that today. And then, of course, his aides had to quickly retreat. As one aide put it: We're in a bit of a bad stretch right now. And when you're a bad stretch, even the little things go wrong.
BROWN: John, thank you -- long day for you as well -- our senior White House correspondent, John King, tonight.
More on Iraq as we continue from Washington, reaction to the president's comments today from two members of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Republican Chuck Hagel and Democrat Joe Biden.
You'll hear from both, as NEWSNIGHT continues from the capital.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: When the Senate voted to authorize the president to use military force against Iraq, Republican Chuck Hagel of Nebraska and Democrat Joe Biden of Delaware were both yeas. They were important votes, because both are members of the Senate's Foreign Relations Committee, which doesn't mean that either has been reluctant to criticize what's happened in the 54 weeks since then.
They both found the prewar intelligence dubious. Both found the postwar planning deficient. And both had problems with the president's argument that the recent attacks are a sign of American success.
We sat down with both late this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Well, I think the president's got to get a little more realistic about it.
The series of attacks are evidence that we don't have the security nailed down, particularly in Baghdad. Nothing else is going to happen in Iraq. We're not going to get any of the rest of what we intend on doing, which is to solidify that country, without security. The president seems to have made a bit of a U-turn here in terms of his policy, seems to genuinely be committed to the notion of trying to get the international community in now.
And I wish he would be a little more realistic with the American people about what is at stake. And it's well beyond terror.
SEN. CHUCK HAGEL (R), NEBRASKA: I understand that the president has to continue to rally the American people, if for no other reason than it's going to take, as he has said, as we all know, a very deep, sustained commitment in Iraq, Afghanistan, Middle East peace process. So the president was in a difficult spot yesterday and today. And he had to say something that was in, I suspect, his mind uplifting.
Now, the reality is -- I think as Senator Biden has noted -- is that the incidence of attack on our troops and on other facilities, that incidence rate is increasing. We're losing more people, more wounded. I happen to believe we need more help. I think we need more troops.
But we also need to do something else. And that is, in my opinion, bring back a good number of the Iraqi army as quickly as we can and get them trained up, get them committed up, not Saddam's Republican Guard, but the Iraqis themselves, because the fact is, the sooner the Iraqis are in a position to provide stability for themselves, their country, and are able to govern, the sooner we get out, the sooner we are not seen as oppressors or occupiers. And that should be the goal.
BROWN: When you said more troops on the ground, are you talking about more American troops on the ground?
HAGEL: I think you are going to need more American troops on the ground.
BROWN: Where do they come from?
HAGEL: Well, that's a problem. A full recognition that we need more troops, I think, has to be made.
BIDEN: Right now, something has to be done about security on the ground. And that means more forces. We called for that. John McCain, all of us called for that about a month ago. We were told, no, no, we don't need it. We don't need it.
Well, how are you going to secure the situation without more forces?
BROWN: Would you agree, Senator, that the clock is ticking and the time -- that we're really talking maybe three to six months before the Iraqi people lose any faith at all in the Americans?
HAGEL: Well, I think that's correct.
The Iraqi people must see a quantifiable quality-of-life increase in their daily existence. They must have a sense of confidence, at least to some extent, in the future of their country, as to where is their country going, who will govern their country.
BIDEN: I think success will breed success here.
But the president has to, it seems to me, move much more rapidly, in terms of getting more stability on the ground and be willing to jettison this notion that they seem to cling to that we don't need more forces now to stabilize things.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Senators Biden and Hagel, we talked to them over at the Capitol this afternoon, late this afternoon.
As NEWSNIGHT continues, a little later in the program, quite close to the end, in fact, we'll check morning papers.
Up next, the shocking story, if you will, of a Chicago pediatrician under arrest tonight for child pornography.
A break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: And lots of NEWSNIGHT still ahead. We'll end it all with morning papers. And up next, the story of a pediatrician and child pornography.
A break first. From Washington, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It was interesting yesterday. It's still interesting today.
There is a great Norman Rockwell picture of an old country doctor listening to the chest of a doll being held up by a little girl. As all Rockwells are, the picture is of an ideal.
Today, from Chicago, a different picture, not a doctor who liked kids, but perhaps one who liked kids the wrong way.
Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a house call by federal agents at the Chicago apartment of pediatrician Marc Watzman.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty much removing evidence from the house. They're taking out the computer. They had maybe two vans here that they're filling up with boxes. They took his garbage.
LOTHIAN: What authorities allegedly uncovered behind this door was a secret life filled with child pornography. According to the criminal complaint, two computers with 3,000 to 5,000 sexual explicit photos of children as young as eight; 200,000 deleted images, some of them recovered, showed children having sex.
Encrypted DVDs requiring a secret code to view. And an evidence eliminator program. This week, the 37-year-old doctor who last worked at this Illinois hospital was charged with possession of child pornography.
PATRICK FITZGERALD, U.S. ATTORNEY: What I want to make clear to everyone is that Dr. Watzman is not charged with any offense against any children. It is not alleged that he has taken any illegal conduct against any children. LOTHIAN: In court, federal prosecutors admitted they had more questions than answers in this case. Inside the doctor's apartment and his car agents say they found morphine, Viagra, and drugs that caused temporary paralysis and unconsciousness.
(on camera): But no drug charges have been filed. His attorney says the narcotics are tools of the trade for his other job as an anesthesiologist.
(voice-over): If convicted on child pornography charges, he faces up to five years behind bars.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few more items now from around the country, starting with the sniper trial. Jurors today heard from witnesses to a number of shootings in person and on 911 recordings. John Muhammad, on trial only for one killing, but prosecutors need evidence of other crimes to make their case for the death penalty.
Congressional hearings today in New York, where lawmakers heard from people who worked in the rubble of ground zero now suffering debilitating illnesses. Many have difficulty breathing. Some can no longer work. The hearings focused in part on why some $90 million in federal money for treating illnesses such as these remains tied up in Washington.
And not far from there, wine, women and song and a bunch of jurors who didn't look much amused. Some smirked, others giggled, as the prosecution played for them a videotape of the birthday party that Dennis Kozlowski threw for his wife. The former CEO of Tyco Industries is on trial, you'll recall, for, in so many words, plundering the company. And this, says the government, the birthday party, was a good example.
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the crackdown in Russia. Why are the richest people in the country being arrested or driven into exile?
A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: For anyone who grew up during the Cold War, just saying the words Russian stock market is saying a mouthful. There it is, not far from Lenin's Tomb. And it rose a bit today -- the market, not the tomb -- this after tanking yesterday on the arrest of Mikhail Khodorkovsky, who runs Yukos oil, one of Russia's largest companies, and who himself is one of the richest men in the world.
He is also the last of a dying breed, it seems, what the Russians call oligarchs. One by one, they've been arrested or driven into exile for tax evasion or fraud or, many would say, for becoming a political threat to Russia's president, which is why the market fell. Investors worry that free enterprise in Russia won't be free much longer and that, somewhere, old comrade Lenin is smiling.
Here is CNN's Jill Dougherty.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JILL DOUGHERTY, CNN MOSCOW BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): They weren't always oligarchs. Back in the old Soviet Union, nobody was. But as the USSR disintegrated, the men who would become modern Russia's tycoons made their move.
Boris Berezovsky, mathematician-turned-car-dealer, by the end of the 1980's, his millions had turned to billions. He became a political king- maker, engineering the presidential elections of Boris Yeltsin and Vladimir Putin.
But with his wheeling and dealing, he was too big a threat. Berezovsky is now in exile in London, an avowed enemy of President Putin.
BORIS BEREZOVSKY, FMR. OLIGARCH: Every totalitarian system -- and Putin created Russia's totalitarian system -- fights against independent people, and for sure people who have a lot of money, more independent people, could not have a lot of money.
DOUGHERTY: Oligarch Vladimir Gusinsky. At the top of his powers, he controlled television, radio and print media, using them to oppose Vladimir Putin. Accused of money-laundering and fraud, he fled Russia three years ago.
Now it's Mikhail Khodorkovsky's turn to face the wrath of Vladimir Putin. The head of Yukos Oil Company, this oligarch's wealth an estimated $8 billion, and political power unprecedented, leading him to openly defy Vladimir Putin.
Since July, prosecutors have carried out a series of what they say are legal raids and searches of Yukos offices and its affiliate, looking for evidence of fraud and tax evasion, arresting one key shareholder who remains in custody and filing charges against a top Yukos manager.
Yukos Oil Company says the arrest of Russia's richest man was carried out like an anti-terrorist operation, his plane surrounded by armed agents from the Federal Security Service, dressed in camouflage and black uniforms, after a touchdown for refueling in Novosibirsk, Siberia.
Earlier this month, Mikhail Khodorkovsky denied he broke the law.
MIKHAIL KHODORKOVSKY, YUKOS OIL CO. (through translator): What do they want? If they want me to go into political exile, I will not do it. If they want to send me to prison, then with the current system as being put on display, it would be easy enough for them to do so.
DOUGHERTY: He's now in jail facing charges of fraud and tax evasion totaling more than $1 billion, but some financial experts point to another factor: political ambitions.
WILLIAM BROWDER, HERMITAGE CAPITAL MANAGEMENT: All of the sudden, we were into election season and we see that one oligarch group is sponsoring all sorts of political parties, including the Communists, and apparently that truce was broken. And so we ended up seeing Putin doing the same thing to Khodorkovsky essentially that he did to Berezovsky and Gusinsky.
DOUGHERTY: The message, Kremlin watchers say, is unmistakable.
ULLA SHEVTSOVA, POLITICAL ANALYST: it will be a lesson to all Russian tycoons -- if you have political ambitions, if you want to change the rules of the game, you are vulnerable.
DOUGHERTY (on camera): But where other tycoons fled or were exiled abroad, Mikhail Khodorkovsky vows he's staying in Russia, setting the stage for the biggest clash yet between the president and the oligarchs.
Jill Dougherty, CNN, Moscow.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Elsewhere in Russia, the race goes on, a race to save the lives of the last 13 miners trapped underground. Rescuers have managed to drill a small hole into the areas where the miners took refuge when the rest of the mine flooded. They encountered contaminated air and, as a result, have decided to hold off on using explosives to create a rescue shaft. The miners have been down there, trapped, for five days.
If your cell phone stops working tomorrow afternoon, blame the sun. Another solar flare is heading this way. Astronomers say it's a doozy -- they probably used a different word, but we decided on doozy -- the result of the biggest solar explosion in 30 years.
And, no, don't adjust your set. They're supposed to look that way. Barcelona, Spain, today saw the 150 crazy cars take place in, what else, the Crazy Car Race.
BROWN: Still ahead: morning papers -- or maybe morning paper. It depends on the printer.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check a couple of morning papers. Here's the truth. We always tell you the truth, right? A little bit of a printer problem or a computer problem or something. And we wanted to save some time to update the fire situation in California. And it's funny how those two things came together to give us two newspapers.
"The Australian," that would be "The Australian," paper in Australia. What intrigued me here is that this actually could have been an American newspaper. "French Terror Suspect Linked to Afghan Assassinations. Have We Forgotten Bali So Quickly?" You'll recall, in the Bali attack, a lot of Australians perished. "The threat is real. Australia can expect to be targeted" -- a terrorism story.
And an immigration story, "Visas For Nine in 10 Refugees." Nine out of 10 people -- boat people who come to Australia are given at least three years of sanctuary there.
"The Detroit News." This would be the other paper tonight, folks -- "The Detroit News." "Big Three Win With New Fuel Rules. Automakers Say Lower Standards Save Jobs, Boost Safety. Environmentalists Disappointed." I had not seen this story, honestly, today, but I guess that will be another campaign issue. The other story I liked here that does seem to play against the general feel of the economic news these day, "Compuware Slashes Pay and Benefits," a software company based in Detroit, I gather, "Tells 9,300 Employees Big Wage Cuts, New Co-Pays on Health Insurance Will Save Jobs."
So a couple of newspapers for you.
A lot still going on out west in California. We'll take a break and update the situation there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Before we go tonight, we want to bring you up to the minute on our top story tonight, the fires in Southern California. These are pictures from the Simi Valley, Stevenson Ranch there, live pictures, now coming up on 8:00 in the evening on the West Coast.
For Simi Valley, the north -- in the north, San Diego to the south, 13 major fires continue to burn. Nearly 2,000 homes have been destroyed; 16 people have died. And none of the people we talked to tonight, not a one, gave us any reason to believe that this is turning, that we have reached somehow the point of the worst and we can now look forward to something better. None would say that.
They talked only about hope, that the weather would improve a bit, that it would get more humid, that the winds would come down from the north, essentially pushing the fire back onto itself. But that isn't the case tonight. The winds are down, as they generally are at night. The air is cooler, obviously. There is a little more humidity from an ocean breeze. All of that is helpful.
But none of it is decisive at this point. And so the fight goes on, fire crews tired, exhausted, and living dangerously in Southern California. That is certainly going to be our lead tomorrow.
Also tomorrow, we expect to report on the preliminary hearing in the Scott Peterson case. That will certainly come up at some point in the program as well.
Good to have you with us tonight. For our international viewers, "World News" is coming up next, and, here in the states, "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT."
Good night.
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Defends Iraqi Policy; Interview With Senator Joseph Biden, Senator Chuck Hagel>
