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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Bush Signs Partial Birth Abortion Bill; McCain Calls for Different Strategy in Iraq; Green River Killer Admits Murdering 48 Women

Aired November 05, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
Consider this for a moment. Back in 1968 when I first went on the radio doing talk shows the primary topics were the war; that would be Vietnam, capital punishment and abortion and the assassination of President Kennedy.

We'll literally revisit JFK at the end of the month. Tonight, the program is dominated by stories about the war, in this case Iraq, a question of capital punishment and abortion. Sometimes I think nothing ever changes.

It's abortion that leads the program and begins the whip which starts at the White House and a moment long awaited by some, long dreaded by others. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King with the watch, John a headline tonight.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president today said he was honored to sign the first new federal restrictions on abortion since Roe v. Wade was decided 30 years ago, immediately the abortion debate once again contentious in the courts and in the presidential campaign -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you.

Next to the Pentagon and strong criticism from a prominent Republican Senator today, Jamie McIntyre reporting that, Jamie a headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the Pentagon is notifying tonight tens of thousands of troops. It will soon be their turn in Iraq but the overall result will be fewer troops in Iraq next year and that has Senator John McCain charging that the Pentagon is more interested in leaving than winning in Iraq.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you.

And finally to Seattle where one man today took responsibility for the murders of 48 women, Gary Tuchman with the headline -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, in a hushed but packed courtroom, Gary Ridgway admitted killing 48 women between 1982 and 1998 and, as family members sobbed, Ridgway issued a statement that described his sadistic motivation. BROWN: Gary, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also ahead on the program we'll hear from both sides in the abortion debate about where they think the next battlefield will be.

We'll have the conclusion of a story we began telling you last week about a mother who found her missing daughter five years later.

Then, an amazing journey underground to see what two guys just happened to find one day when they stuck their head into a cave.

And, the equally amazing journey, I know you'll agree, through morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin with what we called in our nightly e-mail the long running and perhaps never ending debate over abortion. Proof of that came again today. No sooner had the president signed the partial birth abortion bill, a federal judge in Nebraska issued a temporary restraining order.

It doesn't take a pessimist to think that years from now today will be seen as the day that settled little or nothing and it doesn't take a cynic either to wonder about the political implications of the day in an election year.

We'll take up both of those notions a bit later in the program tonight; first, the news of the day and our Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president proudly signed into law the first new federal restrictions on abortion since the landmark Roe v. Wade decision 30 years ago. Tearing up moments earlier, Mr. Bush offered his personal view of the broader abortion debate.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This right to life cannot be granted or denied by government because it does not come from government. It comes from the creator of life.

KING: The new law bans what opponents call partial birth abortion, a relatively rare procedure in which a fetus is partially delivered before being killed.

BUSH: Our nation owes its children a different and better welcome.

KING: Mr. Bush promised to vigorously defend the new restrictions in the courts and within an hour of the signing ceremony a federal judge in Nebraska issued a temporary order protecting four abortion doctors challenging the new law.

REP. LOUISE SLAUGHTER (D), NEW YORK: There is simply no difference in this bill and the ones they've already found unconstitutional. KING: The new legal battle is unlikely to reach the Supreme Court until after next year's presidential election and abortion rights advocates say they will use the campaign to cast the law as just a first step.

KATE MICHELMAN, NATIONAL ABORTION RIGHTS ACTION LEAGUE: This president is willing to use the power of his office to take away a woman's right to choose.

KING: Mr. Bush says despite his personal views the country is not ready to outlaw most abortions but banning late term abortions has broad public support and Mr. Bush invited leading cultural conservatives to the signing ceremony in hopes they remember next November.

Eighty percent of those who describe themselves as Christian conservatives voted for Mr. Bush in Campaign 2000 but Christian conservatives amounted to only 14 percent of the electorate three years ago, down from 17 percent in the 1996 presidential race. So, top bush political adviser Carl Rove has made energizing cultural conservatives a key reelection campaign priority.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Some found powerful symbolism. Others found quite a bit of irony in the location Mr. Bush chose to deliver on this key conservative promise. He signed the new abortion restrictions into law at a building named after Ronald Reagan, a president who was always a favorite of the anti-abortion movement but a president who was never able to deliver on his promises to roll back abortion rights -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, one of the themes that will carry through the program tonight is where next does this battle over abortion go? From the White House point of view where next does it go?

KING: Well, where next from a legal standpoint will be a federal court in New York. A judge heard arguments today. Most expect him to join a Nebraska judge in issuing at least a temporary order putting the brakes on this new law in his jurisdiction.

Tomorrow, in terms of the political debate, many in Congress will try to keep this debate going. Many of the Democrats running for president criticized this president today.

The operating theory of this White House is that the Democrats, like in Campaign 2000, will turn out their votes, including abortion rights activists, and this president benefits if he energizes his base and that's what they believes he's helping himself doing today.

BROWN: John, thank you very much, John King at the White House tonight.

As we said, we'll have more on this in our next segment on where things go from here. We'll hear from both sides. First, a story that sprang into being today as the result of a leak, a memo on Iraq that made its way into the public eye and, like the purloined letter, how it came to be known is just as politically contentious as what it says.

Here's CNN's Jon Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Out of the secretive Senate Intelligence Committee, which is under 24 hour guard, a memo written by Democratic staff has leaked out, outlining a political strategy for the probe of pre-war intelligence on Iraq.

"We have an important role to play" the memo says "in revealing the misleading, if not flagrantly dishonest, methods and motives of senior administration official who made the case."

Republicans say the memo is proof positive that Democrats want to use the traditionally non-partisan Intelligence Committee to score political points.

SEN. JOHN KYL (R), ARIZONA: It is a disgusting possibility that members of the Senate would actually try to politicize intelligence, especially at a time of war.

KARL: But the top Democrat on the committee is outraged for an entirely different reason, suggesting there should be yet another investigation, a probe into whether Republicans stole a confidential Democratic memo and leaked it to the press.

SEN. JOHN ROCKEFELLER (D), INTELLIGENCE VICE CHAIR: It raises serious questions about whether the majority is attaining unauthorized access to private, internal materials of the minority.

KARL: Rockefeller says the memo was either taken off Democratic computers or fished out of the trash. Did Republicans steal the memo?

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: No. I'm not wearing a cloak or a dagger.

KARL (voice-over): Democrats say the memo, however it was obtained, reflects their belief that Republicans are more interested in protecting the president than investigating whether the administration distorted pre-war intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: With that on the table, Senator John McCain weighed in today on post-war Iraq and the question of when and whether and how extensively to let the Iraqis take up the burden of securing the country themselves. The White House, he said, is too focusing on leaving, not focused enough on winning. Here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We lost in Vietnam because we lost the will to fight.

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Iraq is not Vietnam, insists John McCain, but he says there are ominous parallels.

MCCAIN: An exit strategy became more important than a victory strategy in the eyes of many.

MCINTYRE: As in Vietnam, McCain says, the U.S. is failing to fully commit to winning.

MCCAIN: A number of American troops on patrol in Iraq at any given time is under 30,000. This is an insufficient number of troops to even play defense much less take the fight to our enemy.

MCINTYRE: The former Vietnam POW says it's an illusion that enough U.S. troops are in Iraq and labels irresponsible the Pentagon's argument more Iraqi forces are the answer.

MCCAIN: When our secretary of defense says that it's up to the Iraqi people to defeat the Ba'athists and terrorists, we send a message that America's exit from Iraq is ultimately more important than the achievement of American goals in Iraq.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. rejects the suggestion commanders don't have enough troops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the field command say they need more I can guarantee you they will get them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: McCain also suggests the administration is vastly overstating the number of Iraqis who are actually providing security in the country. The current estimate, 115,000, doesn't reflect the fact that many of them are ill-equipped and ill-trained for what they're supposed to be doing. McCain says it suggests that the administration is cooking the books -- Aaron.

BROWN: I'll be honest when you just said 115, I wrote it down, 115,000, I jerked my head back because in the last week I've heard 60,000. I've heard 85,000. I had no idea. I doubt our viewers do, what these 115,000 people if they're real are doing. What are they doing?

MCINTYRE: Well, that's really a big question, you know, how these numbers keep jumping so quickly and the suggestion from the people we've talked to over in Iraq is that while this may technically be true, it's not the case that there's 115,000 well-equipped, well- trained Iraqi police and military on the job. In fact, almost in all the instances we've been able to look into we find the Iraqi police are struggling with almost no equipment. In one town, they have one police car, the only one that wasn't stolen after the war. So, that's the charge that McCain is making that when the administration continues to harp on these numbers it's not really telling the full story.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

We move now from policy to reality. In Iraq today, soldiers captured two former Iraqi generals, key suspects they say behind the continuing attacks against coalition troops. They apparently operated near where a Chinook helicopter was shot down on Sunday, an attack that killed 15 American soldiers.

No one is claiming the two men were guilty of that attack. That attack was the most deadly of the war to date and the survivors are just now starting to talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): First, there was the horrible shock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard a loud boom and after I heard the sound I closed my eyes and I prayed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard a loud explosion and the airplanes kind of shook a little bit. I felt it start falling.

BROWN: Then there was the recognition that they had survived, that they were the lucky ones.

SGT. CHRISTOPHER NELSON, 3RD ARMORED CAVALRY: I woke up. I was on the ground and there was a lot of debris around me. It was people trying to rescue us out the area.

SGT. RAYMOND MONT-LITTLEFIELD, 3RD ARMORED CAVALRY: The last time I remember waking up was in the hospital itself.

BROWN: All of them, those who made it and those who didn't, were headed home for two weeks of R&R. Sergeant Christopher Nelson's trip to see family in Texas may be delayed now by his fractured bones but fellow Sergeant Raymond Mont-Littlefield says he has only a big bump on the head. He'll probably make an urgent appointment.

MONT-LITTLEFIELD: I was going back to Colorado Springs, Colorado. My wife is there. She's pregnant carrying another baby.

BROWN: The attack happened in seconds. The grief will go on for a long, long time.

NELSON: We had about 12 guys from my unit that went with us. I know I had a friend he didn't make it and that's the only one I know about.

BROWN: No one teaches you how to deal with this sort of thing. It is something that young men and women must learn on their own.

NELSON: I would be with my unit right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like to be?

NELSON: Yes because we -- because other soldiers we all bonded together these last couple of months that we've been together. We feel like a real big family.

BROWN: Of course for the past six months normal to these men has meant tense patrols and constant danger and certain beliefs.

MONT-LITTLEFIELD: I feel eventually we will be heading back. There will be other -- it's going to be going on for a long time, many years to come. I feel we will be heading back to Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel about that?

MONT-LITTLEFIELD: I'm ready to do it, sir. I'm proud to do it. It's a good deal. I seen a lot of people over there that needed our help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: As long as that is true soldiers like Sergeant Mont- Littlefield will have stories to tell but this being the modern army, powered by reserves and populated with citizen soldiers who also happen to be husbands and wives and moms and dads, there is another kind of war story being told as well.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is afraid that if I leave it will be a long time before (unintelligible).

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Simone Holcomb is mother and stepmother to seven children in all. She is also absent without leave from the Army, AWOL. Specialist Holcomb was activated by the Colorado National Guard and sent to Iraq. Then her master sergeant husband was also deployed. Grandmother would take care of the kids.

SIMONE HOLCOMB, AWOL MOM: We felt everything was going OK.

FRANKEN: Suddenly, complications a new custody fight involving her husband's ex-wife. Then the grandmother could no longer take care of the children. Simone Holcomb was given temporary emergency leave but time ran out.

HOLCOMB: They said get on a plane or we're kicking you out of the Army.

FRANKEN: But the family court judge had a different order. "The minor children, Dustin and Taylor Holcomb shall reside with Simone Holcomb."

HOLCOMB: I am one soldier. The whole, everything that's going on in Iraq is not going to crumble because my presence is not there.

FRANKEN (on camera): Military officials would only say they are working to resolve the problem. The case is being reviewed by the Army's inspector general.

(voice-over): Simone Holcomb was anxious to let her children speak of their constant fear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it would be worse than last time when both parents left except my grandma wouldn't be here this time and I don't know what to do.

FRANKEN: Bob Franken CNN, Fort Carson, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, more on the battle over abortion. Does the president's signing of the so-called partial birth abortion ban open new fronts in the conflict?

And later, a beautiful trip to Arizona underground and the story of some very lucky explorers.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, as we said, no one expects to settle the abortion debate tonight and though we'll be hearing from both sides we'll do it one at a time, which rules out a debate as such, a disappointment perhaps or a relief. That, too, is debatable as is who goes first.

Chance decided on that one tonight. Kate Michelman is the president of Naral Pro Choice America and she joins us from Washington. It's nice to see you.

KATE MICHELMAN, PRESIDENT, NARAL PRO CHOICE AMERICA: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Given that the courts are already staying this, one in Nebraska. It's expected to happen tomorrow in New York. What is the significance of the day?

MICHELMAN: I think it's an extremely significant day. This is the first time in our nation's history that we have a president signing a federal law to criminalize a medical procedure, the first time we've ever had a federal law criminalizing abortion, the first time we've had a president sign into law a measure that would send doctors to jail for practicing medicine that is about protecting and ensuring the health of women in this case.

I think this is an extraordinary time and I think most Americans as they learn more and more about what this really means that their right to personal privacy is at risk. Women's health is at risk. Our constitutional right to choose is at risk. I think it will be a wakeup call, certainly for pro choice Americans.

BROWN: Let's talk about then where this all goes, not just what happened today but the rest of it. From your side what do you expect to happen next?

MICHELMAN: What I expect to happen next is that pro choice Americans who have been I think somewhat relaxed over the past years, certainly during the Clinton administration because we had a president who stood in defense of a woman's right to choose and who vetoed two bills just like this one because those bills did not have an exception to protect women's health, which is required by the Constitution and notably absent from this bill and noticeably absent from the president's discussion today that women figured not at all in this discussion.

But we will educate, mobilize at the grassroots, bring people to Washington next April for a march on Washington to express our collective voice that this is a freedom and a right of personal privacy and choice that will not be taken away and we will march right into the voting booth to elect a pro choice president in November of 2004.

I believe that if President Bush has an opportunity to serve another four years the Supreme Court that is closely divided on this question may change if President Bush can nominate those who oppose Roe v. Wade and the right to choose and it could mean the loss of our right to choose if he serves for another four years.

So, I believe that that is our mission now and pro choice Americans' mission is to speak, rise up, speak out and walk with their -- have their voices in their feet so to speak in Washington in April.

BROWN: Ms. Michelman, it's good to talk to you again, thank you very much.

MICHELMAN: Thank you.

BROWN: Kate Michelman on the pro choice side.

We're also joined from Washington tonight by Douglas Johnson who's the legislative director of the National Right to Life Committee and it's nice to have you with us.

DOUGLAS JOHNSON, NATIONAL RIGHT TO LIFE COMMITTEE: Good to be with you, Aaron.

BROWN: Can you explain to me how, if at all, the law that was passed by the Congress differs from the law that was substantively different, the law that was rejected by the Supreme Court?

JOHNSON: Yes and the president hit the nail on his head in his remarks today where he called this partial birth abortion a form of violence which kills a baby mere inches from the point of birth. That's the literal truth and that is written into the bill now in the most explicit terms we think are unmistakable.

It says in the bill it's only a partial birth abortion if the baby is born, delivered feet first past the navel outside the woman's body or if head first if the entire head is outside a woman's body.

BROWN: Mr. Johnson, I...

JOHNSON: That's in the bill.

BROWN: I understand that.

JOHNSON: It was not in the bill before.

BROWN: And is that a basis to believe in your mind that the Supreme Court, which rejected I believe it was a Nebraska law.

JOHNSON: Yes.

BROWN: Will accept now this because the definition is different or more precise?

JOHNSON: Well, we haven't predicted what the court will do but that was one of the two objections that the five justices had in the Nebraska law. They said they were confused. They thought that it might apply to these other abortion methods also done in the fifth and sixth month of pregnancy, just like partial birth abortions, where they dismember the baby while the baby is still inside the mother.

They said they were afraid that it might cover both. So, the Congress has written into this bill exactly what the president describes. The baby has to be while still alive mostly delivered outside the woman's body and then killed. That's a partial birth abortion.

We think that's as clear as it can possibly be. We just challenge people to read the bill and look at the medical diagrams of the two procedures on our Web site at nrlc.org or any other public source and make their own judgment on that point.

BROWN: A couple of things before we run out of time. What will be the next great battle on your side?

JOHNSON: We think the Senate will take up quite soon the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which is also known as Laci and Conner's law. This is a bill that would recognize an unborn child as a legal victim if he or she is killed by a criminal in the course of a violent federal crime.

Right now for example, if Laci Peterson had been a captain in the army and killed on a military base that would have been regarded only as a single homicide not as a double homicide charge.

BROWN: Do you, just in the seconds we have left, do you agree with the president that he country at this point is not ready to ban abortion? JOHNSON: Well, the question and his answer was about a total ban and that's true but there are many polls that show a majority in support of limiting abortion in the cases of life of the mother, rape and incest, which is the president's position, and on partial birth abortion 70 percent of the public and 57 percent of obstetricians support this ban.

BROWN: Mr. Johnson, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the Green River killer an amazing admission of a killing spree that lasted years, decades, and claimed nearly 50 lives, a break first.

On CNN, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In a courtroom in Seattle today, one of the grimmest chapters ever written came to a close. One man pleaded guilty to four dozen murders committed over a span of nearly two decades, more murders than even police believed, more than the killer could keep track of but if he was fuzzy on the numbers, he clearly knew his handiwork. "Choking is what I did" he said "and I was pretty good at it."

Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Gary Leon Ridgway has officially admitted he is the Green River killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you plead to the charge of aggravated murder in the first degree as charged in count one for the death of Wendy Lee Coffield (ph)?

GARY LEON RIDGWAY: Guilty.

TUCHMAN: Over the next eight minutes, Ridgway said guilty 47 more times. He listened as the prosecutor read a statement the mass murderer wrote.

JEFF BAIRD, PROSECUTOR: "In most cases when I murdered these women I did not know their names. Most of the time I killed them the first time I met them and I do not have a good memory for their faces. I killed so many women I have a hard time keeping them straight." Is that true?

RIDGWAY: Yes, it is.

TUCHMAN: The 54-year-old former truck painter said in his statement he hated prostitutes and didn't want to pay them for sex.

BAIRD: "I also picked prostitutes as victims because they were easy to pick up without being noticed."

TUCHMAN: The 48 total murder convictions means he has admitted responsibility for more killings than anyone in U.S. legal history but Ridgway won't get the death penalty.

Prosecutors say he's been cooperative, confessing to virtually all of the Green River killings and accompanied investigators to find three bodies this summer. So, a deal was made, life in prison without parole.

Defense attorneys say their client may have killed even more and just doesn't remember. They say those other cases...

MARK PROTHERO, RIDGWAY'S ATTORNEY: They remain open and Gary remains a suspect in those as well.

TUCHMAN: Opal Mills was one of the first victims killed in 1982. Her mother was against the plea bargain but now says...

KATHY MILLS, VICTIM'S MOTHER: I think we can let go of it now, you know, and it will be OK, you know. In a little while it will be OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: So, Gary Ridgway has admitted killing 43 of the 49 women on the official Green River list and an additional five women who were not on the list. That's the total of 48. He'll be sentenced this spring.

Until then, under the deal he has, he has to cooperate with the prosecutors and the investigators and that's the situation right now here, Aaron, very sad inside the courtroom today -- back to you.

BROWN: Just quickly did he express remorse at all?

TUCHMAN: He did not express remorse today but we asked his attorney that question and they said when he gets sentenced this spring he will apologize to the family members of the victims.

BROWN: Gary, thank you, Gary Tuchman in Seattle tonight.

It brings back memories for us, none pleasant, save the occasional encounters with our next guest. Ann Rule is a former Seattle police officer, currently one of the best true crime writers out there.

Her new book is called "Heart Full of Lies," another one "Without Pity" is due soon and then a book on the Green River killer. We're always pleased to see her. We are tonight. Ann, nice to have you with us.

ANN RULE, AUTHOR "HEART FULL OF LIES": Nice to be with you, Aaron.

BROWN: It's perhaps an odd thing to say but when you look at Mr. Ridgway he is so utterly ordinary.

RULE: He is. He looks totally non-threatening and I think his appearance probably helped him to get the girls into his car because he looks like the last guy in the world they would be afraid of.

BROWN: Now...

RULE: They were expecting a big, powerful man or perhaps a policeman or someone in a policeman's uniform not a Gary Ridgway.

BROWN: Right. There was always talk that maybe it was a policeman or maybe it was an airline pilot. That was another theory out there. There were lots of theories but it turned out the guy was hiding in plain sight.

RULE: He was, effective coloration.

BROWN: And oddly, although perhaps not given who you are and the work you do, you had a connection to his eventual arrest.

RULE: I did in a sense. A lot of people called me through the years. They were hesitant to approach the task force so they would call me and ask me to pass information and in 1987 some of Gary Ridgway's neighbors came to me and asked me to give some information to the task force, which I did.

I lived about a mile from him and so I drove by his house. Nothing came of that tip. I'd given them hundreds before. My daughter, Leslie, is a write and writes with me or signs books with me and she told me when she saw Ridgway's picture she said, "mom, remember I told you about the man that comes to your book signings and leans against the wall and stares at you?" She said "that's the man. I recognize him."

BROWN: What is it...

RULE: That kind of gives me a chill.

BROWN: Yes, I guess. What is it that the neighbors found troubling about Mr. Ridgway?

RULE: He had asked her -- their husbands to help him move a rug out of his bedroom that was oddly stained with paint and there were other things in his behavior. Where they live backed up to the I-5 freeway and the freeway makes so much noise it's like a river roaring behind so his backyard if someone called for help I don't think anybody would have heard them.

BROWN: Is that -- I didn't get through all of the documents today, is that what he did that he picked up these women and he took them to his home?

RULE: What he said in his confession in his plea was that he picked them up. He knew he was going to kill them when he picked them up and he killed them in his house, in his car or in the outdoors.

BROWN: Are you surprised that prosecutors made a deal? Seattle is a complicated place where the death penalty is concerned but if there's a death penalty case this sort of screams at one are you surprised they made a deal?

RULE: No. No, when you consider it's been 21 years since Wendy Coffield's body was found and the bodies were skeletonized. They were scattered. Yes, they had good DNA evidence on some of the victims but some of the other ones I think it might have been difficult to get a conviction.

And I think it was so important that the families know that their daughters were included, that attention was paid to their daughters and there's never closure. There's never closure but sometimes there's a stopping point where people know and they can go on. So, I think it was done the right way. There's been a lot of criticism but I don't criticize that decision.

BROWN: I think in many respects you have to have lived in Seattle through all of this to realize how much the story at times dominated the news and was what people talked about. Is it odd to think it's over?

RULE: It is. It is. I have saved information since July 15, 1982 in my linen closet and I pulled out all those boxes last week and it seemed like it was going to go on forever but Sheriff Reichert (ph) and I always kind of joked over the years and he was a rookie in the beginning and I said, "Davey," I used to call him, he's David now, I said "you catch him and I'll write a book" and sometimes I think he and I were the only ones who believed that there was going to be this solution in the end and I'm so glad that it's come about.

BROWN: Glad it's over. Thank you, Ann, it's good to see you again.

RULE: Thank you, good to see you.

BROWN: Ann Rule in Seattle.

Still to come on the program tonight, the homecoming, a young girl back home in Florida after disappearing for more than five years.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Lots more NEWSNIGHT ahead, morning papers of course.

And up next, a wonderful homecoming story, a break first. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In one way this next story strikes us as unbearably sad, a mother and a daughter who now have a five year hole in their lives, neither having seen the other for that long. Five years of early childhood memories that never were and never will be.

On the other hand, they now have a lifetime of new memories ahead of them. So, if their reunion in Hawaii and their homecoming today in Florida brings a tear or two we imagine the tears of joy will carry the day.

Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Finally back home in Florida, Angeline and her mother Elke were greeted with hugs and bouquets of flowers. They've only had three days getting to know each other again but, says mom, the lost years are slowly beginning to melt away.

ELKE HOERSCHER, MOTHER: The reunion was wonderful thanks to the people in Hawaii. They were really, really great. The explained everything to her. She was already prepared for everything so we just had a great time over there.

CANDIOTTI: Angeline was only five when her father allegedly snatched her from his ex-wife who had legal custody. Angeline is now eleven. John Michael Bryant, it turns out, has been living with Angeline in Hawaii for at least four years under assumed names, John and Lana Lee.

Police say Bryant was unemployed yet somehow managed to pay $1,200 a month rent for a home near the ocean. Delray Beach, Florida Detective Tom Whatley cracked the cold case and met Angeline for the first time, a little girl he worked so hard to find.

DET. THOMAS WHATLEY, DELRAY BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT: I look at her and I said you don't know me but I know you very well and I got a little teary and gave her a hug.

CANDIOTTI: Whatley says he isn't done yet. He suspects Bryant knew police were on his trail and may have had help along the way.

WHATLEY: If I find a paper trail that connects Mr. Bryant to that person, that person is going to jail and I'll make sure of it.

CANDIOTTI: Someone who knew Bryant recognized him and his daughter from one of those missing child postcards and tipped off police. Angeline who police say was told her mother abandoned her was quietly picked up at her school and told her father was in trouble.

DET. ERIC SCHUBIE: She was scared and very upset that in fact the police was looking for her dad.

CANDIOTTI: For five years, Angeline's mom says she kept a diary written to her daughter about her search.

HOERSCHER: They got 320 leads. Please, God, let there be one that leads us to you.

CANDIOTTI: Now that it has a mother and daughter begin a new life together again back home.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And the inevitable footnote. Authorities in Florida have charged John Bryant with parental kidnapping. He's expected back in the state next week. His lawyer says Mr. Bryant's primary interest is his daughter and that one day he hopes he and his daughter will be reunited.

Another reunion of sorts to start off a check of stories from around the country today and it was a big one. More than 6,000 sailors aboard the USS Nimitz arrived home. That would be San Diego. The nuclear-powered carrier and her support ships had been at sea for eight long months, deployed before the war in Iraq. Among the returning sailors were 123 who were seeing their new babies for the first time.

Tonight, the solid south seems more solidly Republican as Haley Barber has captured the Mississippi governor's office in yesterday's election. The GOP won governorships in Kentucky as well.

And, Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean spent the day trying to clean up the confederate flag flap. Mr. Dean said he had wanted to be the candidate of White southerners who drive pickup trucks and confederate flags in the window. He's been sharply criticized by his rivals for that and today, while defending the need to reach out to such voters, apologized for any hurt his remarks caused.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a hidden gem in Arizona. We'll get a sneak preview of an amazing series of caverns.

We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When you think of undiscovered places and sights unseen by human eyes, Arizona doesn't exactly spring to mind nor do the words dark and humid. But there is a place in Arizona that's a little of all three just south of Benson, deep underground in a corner of the state park that opens to the public next week.

If the words dark and humid don't sound so appealing try the words of the poet Samuel Coleridge, "a pleasure dome where the sacred river ran through caverns measureless to man." Xanadu, no, but close.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TENEN, CAVE DISCOVERER: You can just see the edge of it right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is essentially how it was. Over off to the right we followed a little crevice. TENEN: Kartchner Caverns is a cave that my caving partner and I, Randy Tufts (ph) discovered in 1974. Even today I come into this cave and I see things I've never seen before. Lots of caves can point out a great formation but this one is as we say (unintelligible) just great stuff and there's the large magnificent grand walls of cascading flow stone and then there's the (unintelligible). This is what makes this a world class cave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Kartchner Caverns State Park.

TENEN: It has been now almost a 30 year journey for us in bringing it to a point that we can consider it protected and safe.

KEN TRAVOUS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ARIZONA STATE PARKS: Depending on where you like to measure time it could be a quarter of a million years old and the formations that you see around us that are dripping have been here a long time and will be here a long time after we're gone. We only want to light these enough for you to see them. We want you to understand that shadows are important and they give you that depth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 550 people going through the cave every day...

TRAVOUS: We've not seen any indication that humans made it in here until Randy and Gary came in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a dome-shaped ceiling. That's how the room got its name as the rotunda room.

TRAVOUS: There are two major complexes, the rotunda throne room and the big room which are really two separate caves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trail that you see in the mud is another segment of the discoverer's trail.

TRAVOUS: The rotunda room has the tracks of Randy and Gary when they first came through the cave and if you look down at the mud what you see is that there were some soda straws, these delicate things that from their own weight had fallen from the ceiling and stuck in the mud. They're still standing there. They might have fallen there 15,000, 20,000 years ago and you can watch Gary and Randy's tracks come in and they see what they're going to get and they go around it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The column that you see in front of you is called Kubla Khan.

TENEN: The name of the cave before it was Kartchner Caverns was Xanadu because many of the features in the cave reminded us of Coleridge's poem so when we got to the throne room I think it was Randy who said this must be Kubla Khan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were standing down there that's about how tall you'd be.

TRAVOUS: It is a column that's over 50 feet tall, massive, and of course it started out no doubt as a small stalactite and a small stalagmite growing together for tens of thousands of years.

TENEN: When we visit Kartchner or any cave we're looking at a slice of time over a long life of this cave. My favorite part of the tour is watching the kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened up here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The light turns off.

TENEN: And listening to their questions and seeing people just gasp at the beauty. I hope that we've created a bunch of people who are excited about the world and really like to explore and discover the world around them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The work of NEWSNIGHT producer Amanda Townsend.

Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Okey dokey, time to check morning papers from around the country, many of them, and a couple of stories appear on almost all of them. Well, that's generally true isn't it? Yikes.

Anyway, let me point some few things out here. "The Miami Herald," over here if you don't mind. "Bush signs first law to limit abortion." What is interesting to me is how headline writers are trying to get around or deal with the fact that the term partial birth abortion is essentially, it's not a legal term of art I suppose but it's a political term. Anyway, they just do it straight. Also on the front page a shortage of veterans coming up on Veteran's Day next week, right, next Tuesday I think.

"The San Francisco Chronicle," Bush signs bill banning an abortion technique, Midwest judge doubts it is constitutional. They also put Green River on the front page. Green River will appear on many of them. "He strangled 48 women most prostitutes, runaways. Green River killer admits guilt to save own life."

"The Washington Times," a more conservative newspaper on its editorial pages and some say even on its news pages, I'm not saying that, "Bush signs partial birth ban." The editors there have no problem using the term. They don't put it in quotes. They just lay it out. "Vows to defend law on abortion method in court." Yes, that's enough with that one.

The "Chattanooga Times Free Press," now someone will write and say can't you say Chattanooga properly? "Bush signs abortion ban. Court fight looms," pretty straight ahead there. Down at the bottom, "Senator Frist resisting calls for cheaper drug purchases." This is one of the things that seems to be hanging up the Medicare drug bill is whether to allow drug imports.

How are we doing on time? Really, a minute 14. That seems like a lifetime when you're adlibbing this bit. The "Times Herald Record" in upstate New York serving the Hudson Valley and the Catskills, pretty stark headline that is, isn't it? "Green River case murder x 48. Gary Ridgway admits to more murders than any serial killer in U.S. history."

I can't tell you honestly I mean how long I've lived with that story out in Seattle. I was out there a long time. The idea that it's over is just really strange and honestly wonderful that it's over.

"The Cincinnati Enquirer" leads with "local politics to win council seat, wide appeal a must, strong run citywide where the key is they analyze the election." I like the story. I haven't seen it but I expect I will in tomorrow's "New York Times" because it comes from the "Times" wire service. "New EPA policy a win for utilities. Clean air violation checks dropped." I'm sure there's a good reason for that but just off the top of my head I can't think of one but I'm sure there is one.

"Chicago Sun-Times" the newly-remade "Chicago Sun-Times" we're very proud that we debuted this here yesterday, "the weather tomorrow vivid in Chicago," which is a nice way to say it's going to be cold.

We'll wrap up the day, take a look at tomorrow but we'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we go tonight, a quick recap of our top story. President Bush signed into law a bill banning the medical procedure that critics call partial birth abortion. Shortly thereafter, a federal judge in Nebraska issued a temporary restraining order in his jurisdiction stopping the enforcement, other courts expected to act as well, including on in New York tomorrow.

And tomorrow on the program the Democrat who has endorsed President Bush and calls the strategy of many of his fellow Democrats a recipe for disaster, Zell Miller joins us. That's tomorrow night on NEWSNIGHT.

Lou Dobbs is next for most of you. We'll see you tomorrow night, 10:00 Eastern time. Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Different Strategy in Iraq; Green River Killer Admits Murdering 48 Women>


Aired November 5, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
Consider this for a moment. Back in 1968 when I first went on the radio doing talk shows the primary topics were the war; that would be Vietnam, capital punishment and abortion and the assassination of President Kennedy.

We'll literally revisit JFK at the end of the month. Tonight, the program is dominated by stories about the war, in this case Iraq, a question of capital punishment and abortion. Sometimes I think nothing ever changes.

It's abortion that leads the program and begins the whip which starts at the White House and a moment long awaited by some, long dreaded by others. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King with the watch, John a headline tonight.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president today said he was honored to sign the first new federal restrictions on abortion since Roe v. Wade was decided 30 years ago, immediately the abortion debate once again contentious in the courts and in the presidential campaign -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you.

Next to the Pentagon and strong criticism from a prominent Republican Senator today, Jamie McIntyre reporting that, Jamie a headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, the Pentagon is notifying tonight tens of thousands of troops. It will soon be their turn in Iraq but the overall result will be fewer troops in Iraq next year and that has Senator John McCain charging that the Pentagon is more interested in leaving than winning in Iraq.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you.

And finally to Seattle where one man today took responsibility for the murders of 48 women, Gary Tuchman with the headline -- Gary.

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, in a hushed but packed courtroom, Gary Ridgway admitted killing 48 women between 1982 and 1998 and, as family members sobbed, Ridgway issued a statement that described his sadistic motivation. BROWN: Gary, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also ahead on the program we'll hear from both sides in the abortion debate about where they think the next battlefield will be.

We'll have the conclusion of a story we began telling you last week about a mother who found her missing daughter five years later.

Then, an amazing journey underground to see what two guys just happened to find one day when they stuck their head into a cave.

And, the equally amazing journey, I know you'll agree, through morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin with what we called in our nightly e-mail the long running and perhaps never ending debate over abortion. Proof of that came again today. No sooner had the president signed the partial birth abortion bill, a federal judge in Nebraska issued a temporary restraining order.

It doesn't take a pessimist to think that years from now today will be seen as the day that settled little or nothing and it doesn't take a cynic either to wonder about the political implications of the day in an election year.

We'll take up both of those notions a bit later in the program tonight; first, the news of the day and our Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president proudly signed into law the first new federal restrictions on abortion since the landmark Roe v. Wade decision 30 years ago. Tearing up moments earlier, Mr. Bush offered his personal view of the broader abortion debate.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This right to life cannot be granted or denied by government because it does not come from government. It comes from the creator of life.

KING: The new law bans what opponents call partial birth abortion, a relatively rare procedure in which a fetus is partially delivered before being killed.

BUSH: Our nation owes its children a different and better welcome.

KING: Mr. Bush promised to vigorously defend the new restrictions in the courts and within an hour of the signing ceremony a federal judge in Nebraska issued a temporary order protecting four abortion doctors challenging the new law.

REP. LOUISE SLAUGHTER (D), NEW YORK: There is simply no difference in this bill and the ones they've already found unconstitutional. KING: The new legal battle is unlikely to reach the Supreme Court until after next year's presidential election and abortion rights advocates say they will use the campaign to cast the law as just a first step.

KATE MICHELMAN, NATIONAL ABORTION RIGHTS ACTION LEAGUE: This president is willing to use the power of his office to take away a woman's right to choose.

KING: Mr. Bush says despite his personal views the country is not ready to outlaw most abortions but banning late term abortions has broad public support and Mr. Bush invited leading cultural conservatives to the signing ceremony in hopes they remember next November.

Eighty percent of those who describe themselves as Christian conservatives voted for Mr. Bush in Campaign 2000 but Christian conservatives amounted to only 14 percent of the electorate three years ago, down from 17 percent in the 1996 presidential race. So, top bush political adviser Carl Rove has made energizing cultural conservatives a key reelection campaign priority.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Some found powerful symbolism. Others found quite a bit of irony in the location Mr. Bush chose to deliver on this key conservative promise. He signed the new abortion restrictions into law at a building named after Ronald Reagan, a president who was always a favorite of the anti-abortion movement but a president who was never able to deliver on his promises to roll back abortion rights -- Aaron.

BROWN: John, one of the themes that will carry through the program tonight is where next does this battle over abortion go? From the White House point of view where next does it go?

KING: Well, where next from a legal standpoint will be a federal court in New York. A judge heard arguments today. Most expect him to join a Nebraska judge in issuing at least a temporary order putting the brakes on this new law in his jurisdiction.

Tomorrow, in terms of the political debate, many in Congress will try to keep this debate going. Many of the Democrats running for president criticized this president today.

The operating theory of this White House is that the Democrats, like in Campaign 2000, will turn out their votes, including abortion rights activists, and this president benefits if he energizes his base and that's what they believes he's helping himself doing today.

BROWN: John, thank you very much, John King at the White House tonight.

As we said, we'll have more on this in our next segment on where things go from here. We'll hear from both sides. First, a story that sprang into being today as the result of a leak, a memo on Iraq that made its way into the public eye and, like the purloined letter, how it came to be known is just as politically contentious as what it says.

Here's CNN's Jon Karl.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Out of the secretive Senate Intelligence Committee, which is under 24 hour guard, a memo written by Democratic staff has leaked out, outlining a political strategy for the probe of pre-war intelligence on Iraq.

"We have an important role to play" the memo says "in revealing the misleading, if not flagrantly dishonest, methods and motives of senior administration official who made the case."

Republicans say the memo is proof positive that Democrats want to use the traditionally non-partisan Intelligence Committee to score political points.

SEN. JOHN KYL (R), ARIZONA: It is a disgusting possibility that members of the Senate would actually try to politicize intelligence, especially at a time of war.

KARL: But the top Democrat on the committee is outraged for an entirely different reason, suggesting there should be yet another investigation, a probe into whether Republicans stole a confidential Democratic memo and leaked it to the press.

SEN. JOHN ROCKEFELLER (D), INTELLIGENCE VICE CHAIR: It raises serious questions about whether the majority is attaining unauthorized access to private, internal materials of the minority.

KARL: Rockefeller says the memo was either taken off Democratic computers or fished out of the trash. Did Republicans steal the memo?

SEN. PAT ROBERTS (R), INTELLIGENCE CHAIRMAN: No. I'm not wearing a cloak or a dagger.

KARL (voice-over): Democrats say the memo, however it was obtained, reflects their belief that Republicans are more interested in protecting the president than investigating whether the administration distorted pre-war intelligence on Iraq's weapons of mass destruction.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: With that on the table, Senator John McCain weighed in today on post-war Iraq and the question of when and whether and how extensively to let the Iraqis take up the burden of securing the country themselves. The White House, he said, is too focusing on leaving, not focused enough on winning. Here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: We lost in Vietnam because we lost the will to fight.

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Iraq is not Vietnam, insists John McCain, but he says there are ominous parallels.

MCCAIN: An exit strategy became more important than a victory strategy in the eyes of many.

MCINTYRE: As in Vietnam, McCain says, the U.S. is failing to fully commit to winning.

MCCAIN: A number of American troops on patrol in Iraq at any given time is under 30,000. This is an insufficient number of troops to even play defense much less take the fight to our enemy.

MCINTYRE: The former Vietnam POW says it's an illusion that enough U.S. troops are in Iraq and labels irresponsible the Pentagon's argument more Iraqi forces are the answer.

MCCAIN: When our secretary of defense says that it's up to the Iraqi people to defeat the Ba'athists and terrorists, we send a message that America's exit from Iraq is ultimately more important than the achievement of American goals in Iraq.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. rejects the suggestion commanders don't have enough troops.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If the field command say they need more I can guarantee you they will get them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: McCain also suggests the administration is vastly overstating the number of Iraqis who are actually providing security in the country. The current estimate, 115,000, doesn't reflect the fact that many of them are ill-equipped and ill-trained for what they're supposed to be doing. McCain says it suggests that the administration is cooking the books -- Aaron.

BROWN: I'll be honest when you just said 115, I wrote it down, 115,000, I jerked my head back because in the last week I've heard 60,000. I've heard 85,000. I had no idea. I doubt our viewers do, what these 115,000 people if they're real are doing. What are they doing?

MCINTYRE: Well, that's really a big question, you know, how these numbers keep jumping so quickly and the suggestion from the people we've talked to over in Iraq is that while this may technically be true, it's not the case that there's 115,000 well-equipped, well- trained Iraqi police and military on the job. In fact, almost in all the instances we've been able to look into we find the Iraqi police are struggling with almost no equipment. In one town, they have one police car, the only one that wasn't stolen after the war. So, that's the charge that McCain is making that when the administration continues to harp on these numbers it's not really telling the full story.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you very much, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

We move now from policy to reality. In Iraq today, soldiers captured two former Iraqi generals, key suspects they say behind the continuing attacks against coalition troops. They apparently operated near where a Chinook helicopter was shot down on Sunday, an attack that killed 15 American soldiers.

No one is claiming the two men were guilty of that attack. That attack was the most deadly of the war to date and the survivors are just now starting to talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): First, there was the horrible shock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard a loud boom and after I heard the sound I closed my eyes and I prayed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I heard a loud explosion and the airplanes kind of shook a little bit. I felt it start falling.

BROWN: Then there was the recognition that they had survived, that they were the lucky ones.

SGT. CHRISTOPHER NELSON, 3RD ARMORED CAVALRY: I woke up. I was on the ground and there was a lot of debris around me. It was people trying to rescue us out the area.

SGT. RAYMOND MONT-LITTLEFIELD, 3RD ARMORED CAVALRY: The last time I remember waking up was in the hospital itself.

BROWN: All of them, those who made it and those who didn't, were headed home for two weeks of R&R. Sergeant Christopher Nelson's trip to see family in Texas may be delayed now by his fractured bones but fellow Sergeant Raymond Mont-Littlefield says he has only a big bump on the head. He'll probably make an urgent appointment.

MONT-LITTLEFIELD: I was going back to Colorado Springs, Colorado. My wife is there. She's pregnant carrying another baby.

BROWN: The attack happened in seconds. The grief will go on for a long, long time.

NELSON: We had about 12 guys from my unit that went with us. I know I had a friend he didn't make it and that's the only one I know about.

BROWN: No one teaches you how to deal with this sort of thing. It is something that young men and women must learn on their own.

NELSON: I would be with my unit right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like to be?

NELSON: Yes because we -- because other soldiers we all bonded together these last couple of months that we've been together. We feel like a real big family.

BROWN: Of course for the past six months normal to these men has meant tense patrols and constant danger and certain beliefs.

MONT-LITTLEFIELD: I feel eventually we will be heading back. There will be other -- it's going to be going on for a long time, many years to come. I feel we will be heading back to Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you feel about that?

MONT-LITTLEFIELD: I'm ready to do it, sir. I'm proud to do it. It's a good deal. I seen a lot of people over there that needed our help.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: As long as that is true soldiers like Sergeant Mont- Littlefield will have stories to tell but this being the modern army, powered by reserves and populated with citizen soldiers who also happen to be husbands and wives and moms and dads, there is another kind of war story being told as well.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is afraid that if I leave it will be a long time before (unintelligible).

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Simone Holcomb is mother and stepmother to seven children in all. She is also absent without leave from the Army, AWOL. Specialist Holcomb was activated by the Colorado National Guard and sent to Iraq. Then her master sergeant husband was also deployed. Grandmother would take care of the kids.

SIMONE HOLCOMB, AWOL MOM: We felt everything was going OK.

FRANKEN: Suddenly, complications a new custody fight involving her husband's ex-wife. Then the grandmother could no longer take care of the children. Simone Holcomb was given temporary emergency leave but time ran out.

HOLCOMB: They said get on a plane or we're kicking you out of the Army.

FRANKEN: But the family court judge had a different order. "The minor children, Dustin and Taylor Holcomb shall reside with Simone Holcomb."

HOLCOMB: I am one soldier. The whole, everything that's going on in Iraq is not going to crumble because my presence is not there.

FRANKEN (on camera): Military officials would only say they are working to resolve the problem. The case is being reviewed by the Army's inspector general.

(voice-over): Simone Holcomb was anxious to let her children speak of their constant fear.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it would be worse than last time when both parents left except my grandma wouldn't be here this time and I don't know what to do.

FRANKEN: Bob Franken CNN, Fort Carson, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, more on the battle over abortion. Does the president's signing of the so-called partial birth abortion ban open new fronts in the conflict?

And later, a beautiful trip to Arizona underground and the story of some very lucky explorers.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, as we said, no one expects to settle the abortion debate tonight and though we'll be hearing from both sides we'll do it one at a time, which rules out a debate as such, a disappointment perhaps or a relief. That, too, is debatable as is who goes first.

Chance decided on that one tonight. Kate Michelman is the president of Naral Pro Choice America and she joins us from Washington. It's nice to see you.

KATE MICHELMAN, PRESIDENT, NARAL PRO CHOICE AMERICA: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Given that the courts are already staying this, one in Nebraska. It's expected to happen tomorrow in New York. What is the significance of the day?

MICHELMAN: I think it's an extremely significant day. This is the first time in our nation's history that we have a president signing a federal law to criminalize a medical procedure, the first time we've ever had a federal law criminalizing abortion, the first time we've had a president sign into law a measure that would send doctors to jail for practicing medicine that is about protecting and ensuring the health of women in this case.

I think this is an extraordinary time and I think most Americans as they learn more and more about what this really means that their right to personal privacy is at risk. Women's health is at risk. Our constitutional right to choose is at risk. I think it will be a wakeup call, certainly for pro choice Americans.

BROWN: Let's talk about then where this all goes, not just what happened today but the rest of it. From your side what do you expect to happen next?

MICHELMAN: What I expect to happen next is that pro choice Americans who have been I think somewhat relaxed over the past years, certainly during the Clinton administration because we had a president who stood in defense of a woman's right to choose and who vetoed two bills just like this one because those bills did not have an exception to protect women's health, which is required by the Constitution and notably absent from this bill and noticeably absent from the president's discussion today that women figured not at all in this discussion.

But we will educate, mobilize at the grassroots, bring people to Washington next April for a march on Washington to express our collective voice that this is a freedom and a right of personal privacy and choice that will not be taken away and we will march right into the voting booth to elect a pro choice president in November of 2004.

I believe that if President Bush has an opportunity to serve another four years the Supreme Court that is closely divided on this question may change if President Bush can nominate those who oppose Roe v. Wade and the right to choose and it could mean the loss of our right to choose if he serves for another four years.

So, I believe that that is our mission now and pro choice Americans' mission is to speak, rise up, speak out and walk with their -- have their voices in their feet so to speak in Washington in April.

BROWN: Ms. Michelman, it's good to talk to you again, thank you very much.

MICHELMAN: Thank you.

BROWN: Kate Michelman on the pro choice side.

We're also joined from Washington tonight by Douglas Johnson who's the legislative director of the National Right to Life Committee and it's nice to have you with us.

DOUGLAS JOHNSON, NATIONAL RIGHT TO LIFE COMMITTEE: Good to be with you, Aaron.

BROWN: Can you explain to me how, if at all, the law that was passed by the Congress differs from the law that was substantively different, the law that was rejected by the Supreme Court?

JOHNSON: Yes and the president hit the nail on his head in his remarks today where he called this partial birth abortion a form of violence which kills a baby mere inches from the point of birth. That's the literal truth and that is written into the bill now in the most explicit terms we think are unmistakable.

It says in the bill it's only a partial birth abortion if the baby is born, delivered feet first past the navel outside the woman's body or if head first if the entire head is outside a woman's body.

BROWN: Mr. Johnson, I...

JOHNSON: That's in the bill.

BROWN: I understand that.

JOHNSON: It was not in the bill before.

BROWN: And is that a basis to believe in your mind that the Supreme Court, which rejected I believe it was a Nebraska law.

JOHNSON: Yes.

BROWN: Will accept now this because the definition is different or more precise?

JOHNSON: Well, we haven't predicted what the court will do but that was one of the two objections that the five justices had in the Nebraska law. They said they were confused. They thought that it might apply to these other abortion methods also done in the fifth and sixth month of pregnancy, just like partial birth abortions, where they dismember the baby while the baby is still inside the mother.

They said they were afraid that it might cover both. So, the Congress has written into this bill exactly what the president describes. The baby has to be while still alive mostly delivered outside the woman's body and then killed. That's a partial birth abortion.

We think that's as clear as it can possibly be. We just challenge people to read the bill and look at the medical diagrams of the two procedures on our Web site at nrlc.org or any other public source and make their own judgment on that point.

BROWN: A couple of things before we run out of time. What will be the next great battle on your side?

JOHNSON: We think the Senate will take up quite soon the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which is also known as Laci and Conner's law. This is a bill that would recognize an unborn child as a legal victim if he or she is killed by a criminal in the course of a violent federal crime.

Right now for example, if Laci Peterson had been a captain in the army and killed on a military base that would have been regarded only as a single homicide not as a double homicide charge.

BROWN: Do you, just in the seconds we have left, do you agree with the president that he country at this point is not ready to ban abortion? JOHNSON: Well, the question and his answer was about a total ban and that's true but there are many polls that show a majority in support of limiting abortion in the cases of life of the mother, rape and incest, which is the president's position, and on partial birth abortion 70 percent of the public and 57 percent of obstetricians support this ban.

BROWN: Mr. Johnson, good to have you with us tonight. Thank you.

JOHNSON: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the Green River killer an amazing admission of a killing spree that lasted years, decades, and claimed nearly 50 lives, a break first.

On CNN, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In a courtroom in Seattle today, one of the grimmest chapters ever written came to a close. One man pleaded guilty to four dozen murders committed over a span of nearly two decades, more murders than even police believed, more than the killer could keep track of but if he was fuzzy on the numbers, he clearly knew his handiwork. "Choking is what I did" he said "and I was pretty good at it."

Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Gary Leon Ridgway has officially admitted he is the Green River killer.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you plead to the charge of aggravated murder in the first degree as charged in count one for the death of Wendy Lee Coffield (ph)?

GARY LEON RIDGWAY: Guilty.

TUCHMAN: Over the next eight minutes, Ridgway said guilty 47 more times. He listened as the prosecutor read a statement the mass murderer wrote.

JEFF BAIRD, PROSECUTOR: "In most cases when I murdered these women I did not know their names. Most of the time I killed them the first time I met them and I do not have a good memory for their faces. I killed so many women I have a hard time keeping them straight." Is that true?

RIDGWAY: Yes, it is.

TUCHMAN: The 54-year-old former truck painter said in his statement he hated prostitutes and didn't want to pay them for sex.

BAIRD: "I also picked prostitutes as victims because they were easy to pick up without being noticed."

TUCHMAN: The 48 total murder convictions means he has admitted responsibility for more killings than anyone in U.S. legal history but Ridgway won't get the death penalty.

Prosecutors say he's been cooperative, confessing to virtually all of the Green River killings and accompanied investigators to find three bodies this summer. So, a deal was made, life in prison without parole.

Defense attorneys say their client may have killed even more and just doesn't remember. They say those other cases...

MARK PROTHERO, RIDGWAY'S ATTORNEY: They remain open and Gary remains a suspect in those as well.

TUCHMAN: Opal Mills was one of the first victims killed in 1982. Her mother was against the plea bargain but now says...

KATHY MILLS, VICTIM'S MOTHER: I think we can let go of it now, you know, and it will be OK, you know. In a little while it will be OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TUCHMAN: So, Gary Ridgway has admitted killing 43 of the 49 women on the official Green River list and an additional five women who were not on the list. That's the total of 48. He'll be sentenced this spring.

Until then, under the deal he has, he has to cooperate with the prosecutors and the investigators and that's the situation right now here, Aaron, very sad inside the courtroom today -- back to you.

BROWN: Just quickly did he express remorse at all?

TUCHMAN: He did not express remorse today but we asked his attorney that question and they said when he gets sentenced this spring he will apologize to the family members of the victims.

BROWN: Gary, thank you, Gary Tuchman in Seattle tonight.

It brings back memories for us, none pleasant, save the occasional encounters with our next guest. Ann Rule is a former Seattle police officer, currently one of the best true crime writers out there.

Her new book is called "Heart Full of Lies," another one "Without Pity" is due soon and then a book on the Green River killer. We're always pleased to see her. We are tonight. Ann, nice to have you with us.

ANN RULE, AUTHOR "HEART FULL OF LIES": Nice to be with you, Aaron.

BROWN: It's perhaps an odd thing to say but when you look at Mr. Ridgway he is so utterly ordinary.

RULE: He is. He looks totally non-threatening and I think his appearance probably helped him to get the girls into his car because he looks like the last guy in the world they would be afraid of.

BROWN: Now...

RULE: They were expecting a big, powerful man or perhaps a policeman or someone in a policeman's uniform not a Gary Ridgway.

BROWN: Right. There was always talk that maybe it was a policeman or maybe it was an airline pilot. That was another theory out there. There were lots of theories but it turned out the guy was hiding in plain sight.

RULE: He was, effective coloration.

BROWN: And oddly, although perhaps not given who you are and the work you do, you had a connection to his eventual arrest.

RULE: I did in a sense. A lot of people called me through the years. They were hesitant to approach the task force so they would call me and ask me to pass information and in 1987 some of Gary Ridgway's neighbors came to me and asked me to give some information to the task force, which I did.

I lived about a mile from him and so I drove by his house. Nothing came of that tip. I'd given them hundreds before. My daughter, Leslie, is a write and writes with me or signs books with me and she told me when she saw Ridgway's picture she said, "mom, remember I told you about the man that comes to your book signings and leans against the wall and stares at you?" She said "that's the man. I recognize him."

BROWN: What is it...

RULE: That kind of gives me a chill.

BROWN: Yes, I guess. What is it that the neighbors found troubling about Mr. Ridgway?

RULE: He had asked her -- their husbands to help him move a rug out of his bedroom that was oddly stained with paint and there were other things in his behavior. Where they live backed up to the I-5 freeway and the freeway makes so much noise it's like a river roaring behind so his backyard if someone called for help I don't think anybody would have heard them.

BROWN: Is that -- I didn't get through all of the documents today, is that what he did that he picked up these women and he took them to his home?

RULE: What he said in his confession in his plea was that he picked them up. He knew he was going to kill them when he picked them up and he killed them in his house, in his car or in the outdoors.

BROWN: Are you surprised that prosecutors made a deal? Seattle is a complicated place where the death penalty is concerned but if there's a death penalty case this sort of screams at one are you surprised they made a deal?

RULE: No. No, when you consider it's been 21 years since Wendy Coffield's body was found and the bodies were skeletonized. They were scattered. Yes, they had good DNA evidence on some of the victims but some of the other ones I think it might have been difficult to get a conviction.

And I think it was so important that the families know that their daughters were included, that attention was paid to their daughters and there's never closure. There's never closure but sometimes there's a stopping point where people know and they can go on. So, I think it was done the right way. There's been a lot of criticism but I don't criticize that decision.

BROWN: I think in many respects you have to have lived in Seattle through all of this to realize how much the story at times dominated the news and was what people talked about. Is it odd to think it's over?

RULE: It is. It is. I have saved information since July 15, 1982 in my linen closet and I pulled out all those boxes last week and it seemed like it was going to go on forever but Sheriff Reichert (ph) and I always kind of joked over the years and he was a rookie in the beginning and I said, "Davey," I used to call him, he's David now, I said "you catch him and I'll write a book" and sometimes I think he and I were the only ones who believed that there was going to be this solution in the end and I'm so glad that it's come about.

BROWN: Glad it's over. Thank you, Ann, it's good to see you again.

RULE: Thank you, good to see you.

BROWN: Ann Rule in Seattle.

Still to come on the program tonight, the homecoming, a young girl back home in Florida after disappearing for more than five years.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Lots more NEWSNIGHT ahead, morning papers of course.

And up next, a wonderful homecoming story, a break first. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In one way this next story strikes us as unbearably sad, a mother and a daughter who now have a five year hole in their lives, neither having seen the other for that long. Five years of early childhood memories that never were and never will be.

On the other hand, they now have a lifetime of new memories ahead of them. So, if their reunion in Hawaii and their homecoming today in Florida brings a tear or two we imagine the tears of joy will carry the day.

Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Finally back home in Florida, Angeline and her mother Elke were greeted with hugs and bouquets of flowers. They've only had three days getting to know each other again but, says mom, the lost years are slowly beginning to melt away.

ELKE HOERSCHER, MOTHER: The reunion was wonderful thanks to the people in Hawaii. They were really, really great. The explained everything to her. She was already prepared for everything so we just had a great time over there.

CANDIOTTI: Angeline was only five when her father allegedly snatched her from his ex-wife who had legal custody. Angeline is now eleven. John Michael Bryant, it turns out, has been living with Angeline in Hawaii for at least four years under assumed names, John and Lana Lee.

Police say Bryant was unemployed yet somehow managed to pay $1,200 a month rent for a home near the ocean. Delray Beach, Florida Detective Tom Whatley cracked the cold case and met Angeline for the first time, a little girl he worked so hard to find.

DET. THOMAS WHATLEY, DELRAY BEACH POLICE DEPARTMENT: I look at her and I said you don't know me but I know you very well and I got a little teary and gave her a hug.

CANDIOTTI: Whatley says he isn't done yet. He suspects Bryant knew police were on his trail and may have had help along the way.

WHATLEY: If I find a paper trail that connects Mr. Bryant to that person, that person is going to jail and I'll make sure of it.

CANDIOTTI: Someone who knew Bryant recognized him and his daughter from one of those missing child postcards and tipped off police. Angeline who police say was told her mother abandoned her was quietly picked up at her school and told her father was in trouble.

DET. ERIC SCHUBIE: She was scared and very upset that in fact the police was looking for her dad.

CANDIOTTI: For five years, Angeline's mom says she kept a diary written to her daughter about her search.

HOERSCHER: They got 320 leads. Please, God, let there be one that leads us to you.

CANDIOTTI: Now that it has a mother and daughter begin a new life together again back home.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And the inevitable footnote. Authorities in Florida have charged John Bryant with parental kidnapping. He's expected back in the state next week. His lawyer says Mr. Bryant's primary interest is his daughter and that one day he hopes he and his daughter will be reunited.

Another reunion of sorts to start off a check of stories from around the country today and it was a big one. More than 6,000 sailors aboard the USS Nimitz arrived home. That would be San Diego. The nuclear-powered carrier and her support ships had been at sea for eight long months, deployed before the war in Iraq. Among the returning sailors were 123 who were seeing their new babies for the first time.

Tonight, the solid south seems more solidly Republican as Haley Barber has captured the Mississippi governor's office in yesterday's election. The GOP won governorships in Kentucky as well.

And, Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean spent the day trying to clean up the confederate flag flap. Mr. Dean said he had wanted to be the candidate of White southerners who drive pickup trucks and confederate flags in the window. He's been sharply criticized by his rivals for that and today, while defending the need to reach out to such voters, apologized for any hurt his remarks caused.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a hidden gem in Arizona. We'll get a sneak preview of an amazing series of caverns.

We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When you think of undiscovered places and sights unseen by human eyes, Arizona doesn't exactly spring to mind nor do the words dark and humid. But there is a place in Arizona that's a little of all three just south of Benson, deep underground in a corner of the state park that opens to the public next week.

If the words dark and humid don't sound so appealing try the words of the poet Samuel Coleridge, "a pleasure dome where the sacred river ran through caverns measureless to man." Xanadu, no, but close.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TENEN, CAVE DISCOVERER: You can just see the edge of it right now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is essentially how it was. Over off to the right we followed a little crevice. TENEN: Kartchner Caverns is a cave that my caving partner and I, Randy Tufts (ph) discovered in 1974. Even today I come into this cave and I see things I've never seen before. Lots of caves can point out a great formation but this one is as we say (unintelligible) just great stuff and there's the large magnificent grand walls of cascading flow stone and then there's the (unintelligible). This is what makes this a world class cave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Kartchner Caverns State Park.

TENEN: It has been now almost a 30 year journey for us in bringing it to a point that we can consider it protected and safe.

KEN TRAVOUS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ARIZONA STATE PARKS: Depending on where you like to measure time it could be a quarter of a million years old and the formations that you see around us that are dripping have been here a long time and will be here a long time after we're gone. We only want to light these enough for you to see them. We want you to understand that shadows are important and they give you that depth.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Over 550 people going through the cave every day...

TRAVOUS: We've not seen any indication that humans made it in here until Randy and Gary came in.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is a dome-shaped ceiling. That's how the room got its name as the rotunda room.

TRAVOUS: There are two major complexes, the rotunda throne room and the big room which are really two separate caves.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The trail that you see in the mud is another segment of the discoverer's trail.

TRAVOUS: The rotunda room has the tracks of Randy and Gary when they first came through the cave and if you look down at the mud what you see is that there were some soda straws, these delicate things that from their own weight had fallen from the ceiling and stuck in the mud. They're still standing there. They might have fallen there 15,000, 20,000 years ago and you can watch Gary and Randy's tracks come in and they see what they're going to get and they go around it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The column that you see in front of you is called Kubla Khan.

TENEN: The name of the cave before it was Kartchner Caverns was Xanadu because many of the features in the cave reminded us of Coleridge's poem so when we got to the throne room I think it was Randy who said this must be Kubla Khan.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you were standing down there that's about how tall you'd be.

TRAVOUS: It is a column that's over 50 feet tall, massive, and of course it started out no doubt as a small stalactite and a small stalagmite growing together for tens of thousands of years.

TENEN: When we visit Kartchner or any cave we're looking at a slice of time over a long life of this cave. My favorite part of the tour is watching the kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What happened up here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The light turns off.

TENEN: And listening to their questions and seeing people just gasp at the beauty. I hope that we've created a bunch of people who are excited about the world and really like to explore and discover the world around them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The work of NEWSNIGHT producer Amanda Townsend.

Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Okey dokey, time to check morning papers from around the country, many of them, and a couple of stories appear on almost all of them. Well, that's generally true isn't it? Yikes.

Anyway, let me point some few things out here. "The Miami Herald," over here if you don't mind. "Bush signs first law to limit abortion." What is interesting to me is how headline writers are trying to get around or deal with the fact that the term partial birth abortion is essentially, it's not a legal term of art I suppose but it's a political term. Anyway, they just do it straight. Also on the front page a shortage of veterans coming up on Veteran's Day next week, right, next Tuesday I think.

"The San Francisco Chronicle," Bush signs bill banning an abortion technique, Midwest judge doubts it is constitutional. They also put Green River on the front page. Green River will appear on many of them. "He strangled 48 women most prostitutes, runaways. Green River killer admits guilt to save own life."

"The Washington Times," a more conservative newspaper on its editorial pages and some say even on its news pages, I'm not saying that, "Bush signs partial birth ban." The editors there have no problem using the term. They don't put it in quotes. They just lay it out. "Vows to defend law on abortion method in court." Yes, that's enough with that one.

The "Chattanooga Times Free Press," now someone will write and say can't you say Chattanooga properly? "Bush signs abortion ban. Court fight looms," pretty straight ahead there. Down at the bottom, "Senator Frist resisting calls for cheaper drug purchases." This is one of the things that seems to be hanging up the Medicare drug bill is whether to allow drug imports.

How are we doing on time? Really, a minute 14. That seems like a lifetime when you're adlibbing this bit. The "Times Herald Record" in upstate New York serving the Hudson Valley and the Catskills, pretty stark headline that is, isn't it? "Green River case murder x 48. Gary Ridgway admits to more murders than any serial killer in U.S. history."

I can't tell you honestly I mean how long I've lived with that story out in Seattle. I was out there a long time. The idea that it's over is just really strange and honestly wonderful that it's over.

"The Cincinnati Enquirer" leads with "local politics to win council seat, wide appeal a must, strong run citywide where the key is they analyze the election." I like the story. I haven't seen it but I expect I will in tomorrow's "New York Times" because it comes from the "Times" wire service. "New EPA policy a win for utilities. Clean air violation checks dropped." I'm sure there's a good reason for that but just off the top of my head I can't think of one but I'm sure there is one.

"Chicago Sun-Times" the newly-remade "Chicago Sun-Times" we're very proud that we debuted this here yesterday, "the weather tomorrow vivid in Chicago," which is a nice way to say it's going to be cold.

We'll wrap up the day, take a look at tomorrow but we'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we go tonight, a quick recap of our top story. President Bush signed into law a bill banning the medical procedure that critics call partial birth abortion. Shortly thereafter, a federal judge in Nebraska issued a temporary restraining order in his jurisdiction stopping the enforcement, other courts expected to act as well, including on in New York tomorrow.

And tomorrow on the program the Democrat who has endorsed President Bush and calls the strategy of many of his fellow Democrats a recipe for disaster, Zell Miller joins us. That's tomorrow night on NEWSNIGHT.

Lou Dobbs is next for most of you. We'll see you tomorrow night, 10:00 Eastern time. Good night for all of us.

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Different Strategy in Iraq; Green River Killer Admits Murdering 48 Women>