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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Helicopter Crash Kills 6 in Iraq; Al Qaeda May Be Seeking to Take Hold of Cargo Planes; U.S. Temporarily Closes Embassy in Saudi Arabia

Aired November 07, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, again.
A viewer who writes from time to time wrote again today. "Are we reaching the point" she asked "when these daily deaths of Americans in Iraq will lose their impact? Have we reached that point already"?

The deaths came in bunches this week, 15 on Sunday and one crash, another six today in another. Remembering the dead is not a political statement as some suggest. It is a human one and forgetting them or ignoring them or dismissing their deaths as just part of the job is not humane at all.

A tough day in Iraq tops the program and begins the whip. In Tikrit we begin, Nic Robertson is there, Nic a headline from you tonight.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, all six soldiers traveling aboard that Black Hawk helicopter died when it crashed just outside their base in Tikrit. This is the third such incident in two weeks and already there are indications that this helicopter like the other two may have been shot down -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.

Now to the Pentagon where for the second time in a week they are dealing with a deadly chopper crash. Jamie McIntyre is there for us, Jamie a headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, as tragic as the loss is of those six American soldiers in the downing of that Black Hawk helicopter the incident could have handed the insurgents an even greater psychological victory. In the helicopter traveling next to it was a two-star Army general.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you.

Now to a possible security threat at home. National Security Correspondent David Ensor is with us tonight. David, a headline from you.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the U.S. government is sending out a warning to local and state law enforcement that they have some information, single source and uncorroborated, suggesting that al Qaeda may be seeking to take hold of cargo planes, fly them into the United States and hit targets such as power plants -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, thank you. We'll get to you shortly.

And over at the State Department next and Andrea Koppel a major U.S. embassy being shut down as a security measure, Andrea the headline.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Aaron, not just the embassy but two U.S. consulates, a temporary shutdown expected to last only a few days but the warning is one that is certainly ominous, U.S. officials saying that terrorists have moved from the operational -- from the planning to the operational phase of terrorist attacks in the Saudi Kingdom -- Aaron.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also ahead on the program tonight we'll talk with filmmaker and author Michael Moore who is always eager to stir the pot a bit.

We'll also continue our series of stories on America's war wounded, an exclusive look at the hospital where the most seriously burned soldiers are taken and treated.

Later, the story that dare not speak its name, a denial from Prince Charles about an allegation we can't report but we can and will tell you what's in the morning papers with an intro from the rooster, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin in Tikrit, the northern end of Iraq's so-called Sunni Triangle and the end of one of the bloodiest weeks since the United States invaded in March. In the last seven days more than 30 Americans have been killed most in two helicopter crashes, crashes that raise questions about an enemy that is either getting very lucky or dangerously good.

Here's CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Just hours after the Black Hawk downed a show of U.S. military determination, mortars and other artillery fired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're showing a little bit of force tonight and we got lots of different tools at our disposal.

ROBERTSON: Including F-16 aircraft dropping 500-pound bombs close to the crash site. This show of force perhaps the best indication yet military officials think the helicopter may have been shot down.

Earlier, as U.S. helicopter fly guard above the downed Black Hawk another helicopter swoops onto the dusty riverbank where the impact occurred. Debris spread over a large area beneath the ridgeline indicating a high speed impact. Residents in the densely populated housing overlooking the crash claim missiles were fired at the helicopter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We still don't know what caused the helicopter to go down, whether it was mechanical or whether it was caused by hostile action. We have to wait for the results of the investigation to come back to be sure of that.

ROBERTSON: At the main coalition base in Tikrit, barely two miles, three kilometers from the crash, intense interest by troops, this the third helicopter downed in two weeks.

On Sunday, at least 16 U.S. troops died when their Chinook transport helicopter was apparently hit by a surface-to-air missile; and, on the 25th of October another Black Hawk near Tikrit downed by a rocket-propelled grenade injuring one soldier.

Both vehicle and foot patrols continue as normal and although they'll examine helicopter procedures officials here think it unlikely they'll be making significant changes in the near future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Well, coalition officials say that any speculation that there may be a new offensive against helicopters is just that speculation but there is among the troops here, because they've seen three helicopters go down recently, a level of increased concern about the use of helicopters. Investigators, we are told, will continue their work. There may be some preliminary results in the next 24 hours -- Aaron.

BROWN: Just quickly this firing that you showed us, the mortar, the artillery, the F-16s, what were they shooting at anything in specific?

ROBERTSON: Well, I think they're more shooting into an area very close to where they believe the attackers not only of this Black Hawk helicopter but the last Black Hawk helicopter downed here very close to where those attackers made that attack and this is really designed to show them, not target them right now, but to show them what the U.S. military is capable of. The shells have been falling and the bombs have been falling in the fields around where the Black Hawk came down -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you, Nic Robertson in Tikrit tonight.

More on the crash now from the Pentagon information about a high- ranking officer who was on a second helicopter flying with the one that went down, our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us with that, Jamie good evening.

MCINTYRE: Well, good evening Aaron.

The U.S. military still not saying for sure whether enemy rocket fire brought down that Black Hawk helicopter but it does appear likely from the facts known so far and if that is the case it appears that a U.S. Army two-star general may have had a close call. The two Black Hawk helicopters were flying low over the Tigris River near Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit when witnesses say a rocket-propelled grenade was launched from the marshy area below.

According to some accounts the rocket hit the second of the two helicopters and sent it crashing to the ground at high speed. Sources say on that first helicopter, the one that wasn't hit, was Major General Thomas Romig, the Judge Advocate General of the Army, the Army's top lawyer.

He's not based in Iraq and was apparently visiting on an undisclosed mission. Again, he is safe we're told. The U.S. military doesn't consider the loss of a high-ranking officer any more important than the loss of a junior officer or enlisted personnel but a successful attack on a two-star general could have given the U.S. insurgents a powerful morale boost.

Now just as when the rockets hit the al-Rashid Hotel when Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz was staying there, the U.S. doesn't know for sure whether these enemy forces had specific intelligence indicating that the general was on the helicopter or Wolfowitz was in the hotel. But, nevertheless, it does raise disturbing questions about what degree of intelligence the enemies of the United States in Iraq possess -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, going to the attack on the hotel that's a little more obvious whether Mr. Wolfowitz was there or others. That was in some respects an obvious target. Do they really think it's possible that someone might have known that this general was on one of those helicopters?

MCINTYRE: Well, I mean that's the question. I mean all the helicopters flying are targets if somebody can get off a shot that they think can take one down but this helicopter apparently was taking extra precautions. That might have in one way tipped off people that there was a VIP onboard.

Whether they had any idea who it was it's only speculation but it does raise the question whether, as you said earlier, are they getting lucky or just pretty good at what they're trying to do?

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

There is an alert here in the United States suggesting that terrorists may want to use cargo aircraft to stage attacks. This has been developing over the last couple of hours.

Our National Security Correspondent David Ensor has been working the story and David now joins us from Washington again, David good evening.

ENSOR: Good evening, Aaron.

Well, the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI are letting state and local law enforcement know that there is information from one source, uncorroborated, that al Qaeda may be looking for a way to get a hold of cargo aircraft, fly them into the United States, and hit targets such as nuclear power plants that according to a knowledgeable U.S. official that I've spoken to.

Now, my colleague Kelli Arena has also heard that an inlet, which is another type of advisory is going to be sent out this evening warning that there's similar information about cargo planes being used as weapons but dealing with Saudi Arabia, with targets in the nation of Saudi Arabia. So, some mixed reporting here but it all deals with cargo aircraft and the potential for their being used by al Qaeda as weapons -- Aaron.

BROWN: Now, just quickly one reason you would if you were a bad guy here would pick a cargo plane is that the security, at least security on American-based cargo planes is a lot less than it is for passenger planes.

ENSOR: That's exactly right. As we all know, life has become a lot more difficult. Travel has become more difficult since 9/11 since those attacks. We're all being checked much more closely but cargo planes do not have nearly the same security.

There have been improvements but officials are concerned they may not have done enough yet and these reports that we're hearing tonight will probably cause some re-looking at the security at cargo aircraft in the United States and perhaps around the world.

BROWN: And, again, what you're hearing is the targets are power plants and I think the Associated Press is reporting that they're hearing dams and bridges, so obviously there's a fair amount of chatter going on out there.

ENSOR: Well, that's right and the official I spoke to said this is chatter. This is not what he would call reliable, corroborated intelligence. It's chatter among people that the U.S. listens in on or watches the activities of because it suspects them of affiliation with al Qaeda. So, it's of concern but it's not that they're expecting an attack any minute now -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, thank you for working late tonight, David Ensor in Washington.

And for Americans in Saudi Arabia, the word concern comes up again, the government announcing that the U.S. Embassy and several consulates in Saudi Arabia will be closed temporarily due to what are called credible threats of an attack by al Qaeda, more from our State Department Correspondent Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): The warning to Americans in the Saudi Kingdom was stark. The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh continues to receive credible information that terrorists in Saudi Arabia have moved from the planning to operational phase of planned attacks in the kingdom.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: In light of the seriousness of this existing threat, the embassy in Riyadh and the U.S. Consulates General in Jedda and Dhahran will close on Saturday, November 8th in order to review their security posture.

KOPPEL: Another State Department official told CNN the embassy and consulates would remain closed until at least the Veteran's Day holiday next week. Terror threats against Americans in Saudi Arabia are not new. In 1996, suicide bombers killed 19 Americans and wounded hundreds more at the Khobar Towers military complex in Dhahran.

For years, al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden used the U.S. military presence in the kingdom, now significantly reduced, to justify jihad against Americans. Saudi Arabia is custodian of Mecca and Medina, two of Islam's holiest sites. Most recently, al Qaeda is believed responsible for the May 12th suicide bombings of three western housing facilities in Riyadh.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And, U.S. officials tell CNN that the latest up tick in terror threats against Americans living in the Saudi kingdom suggests that al Qaeda may be planning these attacks sometime soon perhaps even during the holy month of Ramadan which is going on right now, although U.S. officials also say that the timing, Aaron, and the targets are not clear -- Aaron.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you, Andrea Koppel at the State Department.

With almost exactly a year to go before the presidential election there's almost no doubt what two issues are going to dominate the campaign, Iraq for one, the economy for the other.

While the president's approval numbers for handling Iraq are slipping in the latest CNN-USA Today Gallup poll, at the same time the percentage of Americans who approve of his handling of the economy has gone up.

No doubt a good sign for candidate Bush particularly when added to more good economic news that came out today from the White House, Correspondent Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For months, jobs have been the key missing ingredient for the president in a slowly rebounding economy. While White House officials were privately thrilled about figures showing Americans are starting to find jobs, Mr. Bush in North Carolina was cautious with his optimism.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's the beginning of good news for job seekers. Over the last three months the economy, the entrepreneurs, the private sector and others have driven the job base up.

BASH: The Labor Department reported the lowest jobless rate since April, 126,000 job created in October and September's figures revised, doubled to 125,000.

DAVID WINSTON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: That sound that you're hearing across the capital is Republicans breathing a sigh of relief.

BASH: Relief because voters have decided the last eight presidential elections on the economy and jobs. But even with the good news, manufacturing jobs are still disappearing. Democrats on the campaign trail continue to note the three million jobs lost since Mr. Bush took office.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So many people have dropped out of the labor force so we've got a huge backlog of misery to deal with out there in this economy.

BASH: One of those backlogs is in the state the president was visiting. North Carolina lost a fifth of its manufacturing jobs over the last three years, most in the textile and furniture industries and they're not coming back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was in a textile plant and it went overseas.

BUSH: Many blame unfair trade practices for job loss. Mr. Bush defended his policies but taking questions from workers being retrained for high tech jobs he was eager to show he understands the dilemma.

BUSH: As the economy changes, as technology changes, the slowest part of the change is the workforce.

BASH (on camera): The White House instituted a no gloating policy on the new numbers. As one aide said no spikes in the end zone here but one senior official did note the calendar hoping that good news would drive Americans to buy more during the holiday season making the economy even stronger at the start of the election year.

Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on this Friday edition of NEWSNIGHT, America's war wounded, a visit to the hospital where those who are burned get special treatment. NEWSNIGHT Correspondent Beth Nissen reports that.

And we'll talk with filmmaker and writer Michael Moore as well, lots to do on a Friday night.

This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: As we mentioned earlier, more than 30 Americans have been killed in Iraq in the last week alone. The Pentagon makes it much harder to determine how many soldiers are wounded in any given week but we do know that the wounded from this week or any week had better treatment than ever before that more of those wounded survive to get better instead of dying on the battlefield.

We also know that about ten percent of the injuries in modern wars, including Iraq, are from burns and burns are the worst sort of injuries you can get. The most seriously burned are flown to the burn unit at the Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas. Their recovery is slow and painful, not easy to contemplate nor easy to watch.

Tonight we ask you to do both. NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen was given extraordinary access to the burn unit and the people who work and recover there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN (voice-over): It is one of the most dangerous forces troops face in Iraq not just enemy fire but fire itself. Burn injuries from grenade blasts, explosions, flaming fuel can be so critical that special burn flight teams are on constant call to medivac the most seriously burn injured to Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio. The burn teams have brought in 67 burn injured from Iraq so far.

CAPT. BRAD HUTTON, ARMY BURN FLIGHT TEAM: The severity of injury that you see in a burn center is amazing. I mean you won't see it anywhere else. It's amazing what the body can put up with and still and still function.

NISSEN: Specialist Aaron Coates is amazed he is still alive after a rocket-propelled grenade hit the fuel truck he was driving near Kirkuk August 30th.

SPC, AARON COATES, 273RD AIRBORNE BRIGADE: I am burned from my fingertips up to just past my elbows on this end and this one I was burned from my fingertips all the way up to my shoulder. This one I had burns all the way down to the bone. The bone itself was burned so they had to amputate six of my fingers, had all five on this hand just nipped the tips on these two.

NISSEN: Specialist Gabriel Garriga suffered second and third degree burns over 53 percent of his body when two Humvees collided and ignited at a checkpoint just south of Baghdad July 14th.

SPC. GABRIEL GARRIGA: My clothes were all charred from, you know, it was missing. It was burned off and my burned skin was hanging off and I just -- it just looked bad from what I could see on myself.

NISSEN: Burns are often as bad as they look. The skin is a vital organ the body's largest.

LT. COL. LEE CANCIO, MD, DIRECTOR, U.S. ARMY BURN UNIT: We don't fully appreciate what the skin does for us until we see a major burn. Once the skin is damaged or gone it's not possible for the body to prevent bacteria from invading from the outside in.

NISSEN: Burn wound care is a constant battle against infection involving daily dressing changes, cleaning wounds, wrapping wounds. It is some of the most difficult nursing work there is.

CAPT. DENNIS ESTRADA, ASSISTANT HEAD NURSE, BURN UNIT: You touch them it hurts. You bathe them it hurts.

STAFF SGT. DAVID WAYMON, ICU NURSE, BURN UNIT: You have to scrub, of course, to get any dead skin off and when you do that it's just painful.

ESTRADA: And I'm like if you have to scream or whatever please do it but unfortunately it's something that we have to do.

NISSEN: So, with surgery, Specialist Garriga has had 20 operations so far, many to cut patches of unburned skin from his back and graft them onto his burned legs, arms and hands. Surgery is followed by intensive, often painful, physical therapy.

MAJ. WILLIAM AIKEN, HEAD NURSE, BURN UNIT: You start an immediate rehab, get their hands moving, get their shoulders moving because if that skin tightens up they can't, you know, they can't comb their hair. They can't brush their teeth. They can't open the door. They can't use their hands in activities of daily living.

NISSEN: Most of the Operation Iraqi Freedom patients have burns to their hands, arms, and legs. Specialist Edward Stephenson's lower legs were burned almost to the bone when his convoy hit two explosive devices near Tikrit October 1st.

SPC. EDWARD STEPHENSON, 132ND INFANTRY DIVISION: The pain is a constant thing. I have pain all the time. You know they give me pain medication and it dulls the pain which helps but it's always there.

NISSEN: Not all of his pain is physical.

STEPHENSON: I've had a lot of flashbacks and nightmares. All's I remember is hearing my two friends screaming. I, myself, was screaming because my hands were starting to melt due to the heat.

NISSEN: The burn unit team knows burns leave psychological scars as well as physical ones.

MAJ. SANDRA WANEK, MD, BURN SURGEON: It's very psychologically traumatizing because it's disfiguring. They have scars every day. They'll look at that. That will never be completely normal. They will be reminded of that every day.

NISSEN: Yet nurses and doctors here say most of the young soldiers on the unit are remarkably resilient, positive.

COATES: I got the attitude I can't go back and glue my fingers back on. I know that so there's no point sitting here worrying about it.

GARRIGA: I don't regret this happened. I don't regret going to Iraq or anything. I feel like I served my country. You know I've been through the worst. It can only get better.

NISSEN: Day by day, step by step.

Beth Nissen CNN, San Antonio, Texas. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT the dangers faced by those trying to cover the war.

A break first, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Funny what's happened to the word provocative, it's not exactly a compliment these days and yet to provoke is to make think, to make react, to rouse from sleep or complacency. That is seems to us, agree or not, is a good thing.

That said we're joined now by the provocative Michael Moore, documentarian and writer, most recently of a volume called "Dude, Where's my Country"? It's always nice to see him. I don't think, I don't believe you've been on the program since a few days after the Oscars, maybe the Monday after the Oscars.

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER, "BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE": Right, right.

BROWN: Has that all died down?

MOORE: I don't know if it was ever -- I don't know if it ever died up.

BROWN: Really?

MOORE: Yes. It was -- the response I got was really incredible. I mean it was very, very positive, has been very positive, even more so now. I mean on March 23rd to say that we were fighting a war for fictitious reasons seemed a little maybe out there but now, you know, in November everybody knows it's the truth.

BROWN: I want to talk about books for a second.

MOORE: Yes.

BROWN: Look at the, and I did actually before coming up, nine of the top 30 books on "The New York Times" best seller list are political books, some right, some left, about evenly split. What does that tell you?

MOORE: Well, I don't know if they're so evenly split. I mean there's that many on there but the books on the left sell far more than the books on the right. That's very (unintelligible).

BROWN: Well, I don't know. For a long time -- I mean I think the newer books out there now happen to come from the left. Al Franken's book has been out on the best seller list a bit but before that there was O'Reilly books and Ann Coulter books.

MOORE: Yes, but they don't sell anywhere near what we sell.

BROWN: Is that right? MOORE: Oh, yes, and Hillary too. I mean Hillary is like what close to $2 million? "Stupid White Men" my book last year sold four million copies worldwide. I'm already at a million and a half of this book. There's far more people that believe the way we believe.

BROWN: I mean people on the left -- well, or far more people who buy books.

MOORE: No, I believe that -- no, I believe that we live in a much more liberal country that...

BROWN: But when people are asked they won't -- honestly they don't -- very few people say they are liberals.

MOORE: Yes, yes because liberals made it a dirty word, liberal leaders especially.

BROWN: Yes.

MOORE: But when asked on the issues, when you ask most Americans, you know, how do you feel about, do you think there should be a higher minimum wage? Do you think we should have stronger environmental laws? Are you pro choice? The majority answer yes on all those things so on the issues the American public is very liberal. We just don't like liberal leaders because it seems like an oxymoron, you know. Liberal leaders don't usually lead.

BROWN: Let's talk about Iraq for a minute. We're there. What would you do?

MOORE: Get out.

BROWN: How?

MOORE: Go back to the United Nations, apologize, ask the other countries in this world to please take over the responsibility for rebuilding this country that we helped to destroy and remove our troops from the situation.

BROWN: Just get them out?

MOORE: Absolutely, yes.

BROWN: What if the...

MOORE: We're not seen as the liberators there.

BROWN: Some do, some don't, but in any case what about if the Americans leave now and if no one else goes in what happens?

MOORE: What do you mean if we leave now?

BROWN: Yes, if we leave now.

MOORE: If we leave now that means no more American soldiers are going to be killed. BROWN: Right, what's (unintelligible) for Iraq and the Middle East.

MOORE: If you support the troops -- well, you know, we have to apologize for what we did the situation there. I mean, you know, first of all, Saddam Hussein was our guy back in the '80s. We supplied him with the weapons of mass destruction. And then we went in there and had these sanctions for 12 years and created a horrible situation, where thousands of people died and just messed up the whole country. And now we've gone in there. And what have we done? What have we done, really? What, brought democracy to Iraq, overthrown Saddam Hussein?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: That, we've done.

MOORE: Oh, really? Oh, where is he?

BROWN: I don't know.

MOORE: Well, I don't call that an overthrow. That's not a win. That doesn't go down in the win category.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Michael, just come back to the question. If the Americans leave now, what happens there? Is it better there if the Americans leave now or is it a more dangerous place?

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: Well, it's always been a pretty much a dangerous place.

BROWN: I agree with that.

MOORE: But it's better now that we get out of there and let other countries who are more neutral and whose oil companies will not be controlling the situation, let them take over. And I think they'll have the trust of the Iraqi people more than our oil companies and, sadly, our soldiers, who are dying. They're just not -- they don't enjoy the support of the Iraqi people.

BROWN: In 15, 20 seconds, do you think the president will be reelected?

MOORE: No, I don't, no.

You know why? Because he lied to the American people. And the American people don't like being lied to. And that's what they have figured out. And they don't like the government's hand coming into their wallet and asking for $87 billion to pay for a lie.

Just, in your daily life, if your wife lied to you and then wanted -- by the way, in addition to the lie, give me $87 billion. How would you feel? That's -- breaking it down to just the simple facts, that's how most people feel. And they're not going to support this. And I don't think they're going to support him next year.

BROWN: Michael, it's always good to see you. Come back soon.

MOORE: Thanks for having me here.

BROWN: Thank you, Michael Moore.

MOORE: All right.

BROWN: Still to come on the program, a scandal we can't tell you about.

And up next, the story of the people trying to get the story and the dangers they face.

We'll take a break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And lots more NEWSNIGHT ahead, including morning papers, of course, and the denial from Prince Charles. If only we knew what he was denying.

We'll take a break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Terry Lloyd, Michael Kelly, David Bloom, names you might or might not remember. They are the names of some of the journalists who died while covering the war in Iraq this year, their stories, unfortunately, just three of many in "Dying to Tell the Story," a new book on war reporting edited by one of our friends and colleagues and the person who is literally responsible for us being able to say, "Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT."

Chris Cramer runs CNN International and he joins us from our London bureau.

Chris, it's nice to see you.

There are people, I think, listening here who will say, a book about journalists who died, well, that's a nice thing, but it's essentially a vanity thing, something reporters do for other reporters. Why is it important to recognize their work and their deaths?

CHRIS CRAMER, MANAGING DIRECTOR, CNN INTERNATIONAL: Well, for a number of reasons, Aaron, I think.

Let's just look at some statistics. In the last decade, something like 1,000 members of the media have died covering the story. It's November now. So far this year around the world, certainly 60, if not more, journalists or members of the media have died. And we have two months to go.

What the book is designed to do is, first of all, look at a detailed tribute, if you like, to the colleagues who have died in a tiny period, four or five weeks and the few weeks afterwards in Iraq, which is an extraordinary statistic, 16 dead, two missing, almost certainly dead, three or four dead since then. And the death toll continues to rise.

And, obviously, the public will say, well, you are there as -- you don't have to go there, to which the answer is, of course the media don't have to go there. But they go there, I think, as representatives of the audience, representatives of newspaper readers. So the book is a tribute to colleagues. And it also goes on to discuss some other issues which are, if you like, even more worrying. Are journalists becoming targets for some factions and regimes around the world?

Is this death toll, this attrition rate, completely out of whack? If you applied the number of journalists and media who died in Iraq in those few weeks earlier this year and you put it alongside the 14 or 15 years of the Vietnam War, the death toll would have been something like 2,500. That's an incredible statistic and it's a very worrying statistic.

BROWN: Do you think that, in some degree, we're responsible -- we are -- responsible for this, that we reporters live with an illusion that we are somehow invincible?

CRAMER: Oh, I think there is something in that.

I think the media profession, which is inhabited by people who, by and large, are extremely bright, is very dim when it comes to one issue, which is their own personal safety. I think journalists from my generation used to think that you went off to war zones without any training, without any equipment. You have this halo around your head. You have this protective shield around you. And it's simply not true.

So the International News Safety Institute, which published this book, also has been, for the last year or so, looking at the issue of journalist safety. Incredibly, some media organizations sent their staff to Iraq earlier this year without any training, without any equipment, without any basic guidelines to follow. And that's just completely ridiculous.

BROWN: Just a couple more.

Who do you think the -- who did you have in mind when you edited the book, when the book was being put together? Who wants to read this?

CRAMER: I think it's primarily for the profession. I think the profession, which needs to come out of the dark ages when it comes to believing that they can drive around the world, not be targets for robbery, assault, attack, hostage-taking, murder. And many, I'm afraid, of our colleagues still believe that to be the case.

But I would like to think that the audience is -- to television programs like this and readers of newspapers -- believe like I believe, that the flow of information is precious around the world. It's something which is -- we should not take for granted. And if journalists who you work with and I work with are not prepared any longer to go into hostile environments and cover the news, then who's going to do it for the audiences? Who's going to do it for newspaper readers?

And that would be a tragedy. If the information flow around the world dried up because journalists were concerned about their personal safety, that would be a tragedy.

BROWN: Chris, it's nice to see you, even this way, electronically. Good luck with the project. We appreciate your time -- Chris Cramer from London tonight.

A story now from here in the United States, some unsettling pictures from a high school in Goose Creek, South Carolina. Armed men entered the school with guns drawn, ordering students to the ground, security cameras capturing it all. In the aftermath, the fact that the gunmen were cops carrying out a drug search only seemed to anger some parents more.

Heather Hamel of CNN affiliate WCSC in Charleston on the raid, the anger, and the response.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was like a real-life situation yesterday. This was not a drill.

HEATHER HAMEL, WCSC REPORTER (voice-over): Police officers with guns drawn screaming for kids to get on the floor so their bags could be searched for drugs.

PRINCIPAL GEORGE MCCRACKIN, STRATFORD HIGH SCHOOL: Stratford High School has always had a reputation of being a safe, clean school. And I'll utilize whatever forces that I deem necessary to keep this campus safe and clean.

HAMEL: But some parents were furious, saying it went too far.

LATONIA SIMMONS, PARENT: Mow why did he have to take all that force? You know, there were innocent kids. They were just minding their own business getting ready for class.

HAMEL: The police say not everyone is innocent. A lot of drug activity has been seen in this very hall. But some say pointing loaded weapons at kids isn't the answer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, that was just enough to frustrate any parent.

LT. DAVE AARONS, GOOSE CREEK POLICE DEPARTMENT: Some of the officers had their weapons drawn at a low ready position, which is not pointing at faces or heads of students. It was down in a position where, should somebody who has drugs on them and fears that -- of getting caught and for some reason if they made a poor decision and decided to use a weapon for means of escape, then, you know, we were able to address that.

HAMEL: Officers say it was for everyone's safety. They did handcuff several students who wouldn't get down.

MCCRACKIN: I don't think it was an overreaction on our part. I'm sure it was an inconvenience to those individuals who were on that hallway. But I think there is a valuable experience there.

HAMEL: A canine officer did smell drugs in 12 bookbags, but nothing was actually found. But police aren't discouraged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've sent a message to the folks distributing and dealing drugs at the school that, you know, we know you're doing that. We have no hesitation to come in and address it.

HAMEL: As for repeating this shocking scene?

MCCRACKIN: If we have to, we will.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That was Heather Hamel of CNN affiliate WCSC in Charleston.

Ahead on the program: day two of Rosie on the witness stand; and a story so scandalous, we can't even tell you what Prince Charles is denying. My goodness.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Fair to say that Britain is in a royal tizzy over something. We just can't tell you what.

Here's CNN's Walter Rodgers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prince Charles is on a state visit to Oman, but he's issued a categorical denial that he was ever involved in an alleged incident, which cannot be reported for legal reasons, but which some say could shake the British monarchy to the core.

Totally ludicrous, Charles says. The allegations said to involve the heir to the British thrown cannot be discussed nor disclosed because of a high court injunction block publication in the U.K. But the prince does acknowledge he is the high royal alleged to have been involved. Charles' private secretary, Sir Michael Peat, said the prince's preemptive denial even before the allegations are public here is aimed at putting an end to damaging speculation.

SIR MICHAEL PEAT, SENIOR ROYAL AIDE: Others are discussing it. And the allegations are becoming common currency. It's the subject of much speculation and innuendo. And I just want to make it entirely clear, even though I can't refer to the specifics of the allegation, that it's totally untrue and without a shred of substance.

RODGERS: Denials aside, the newspaper headlines, even with very little of substance to print, are now suggesting the future of the British royal family hangs in the balance. Other royals watchers disagree.

ROBERT JOBSON, ROYAL COMMENTATOR: I think the monarchy will ride this one out. They've ridden most of the scandals of the recent years, since the death of the late Princess Diana, out. I'm sure they'll ride this one out, if indeed it does surface. The reality of the situation is, the royal family are not elected. Therefore, they can have the advantage of time being on their side. And they would just keep their -- their powder dry for the next couple of years.

RODGERS: The allegations of a scandalous incident have been circulating inside media offices for weeks now. The Charles denial may have given the rumors new life by triggering even greater media and public attention.

(on camera): Some of the allegations are already on the Internet, beyond the control of the British courts. And many are now beginning to ask, if, by going public, Prince Charles may not have shot himself in the foot.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, since we're in the mood, Rosie O'Donnell took the witness stand in the sixty day of a trial in which she and her former publishers are accusing one another of sinking the magazine that went by her name.

To talk about the latest in the matter of "Rosie" the magazine and Rosie the woman and Rosie the lawsuit, we're joined now by "People" magazine reporter Mark Dagostino, who has been following ring around the Rosie for a bit here.

Welcome.

She was on the witness stand today.

MARK DAGOSTINO, "PEOPLE": She was.

BROWN: The central issue is who breached the contract, right?

DAGOSTINO: That's it. This really is a contract dispute, despite all the theatrics and the sometimes tears and kind of horrible things we've heard about how mean Rosie can be. None of that really matters in the end. It's a contract dispute.

BROWN: And the argument centers around whether or not she had absolute creative control?

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

BROWN: And did she?

DAGOSTINO: Well, according to what she was told and what she believed and how her people read the contract that they originally signed, yes, she had editorial control. And for the whole first year of the magazine, she approved every cover, every title, every story, every photograph in the magazine.

And then, all of a sudden, once a new editor was hired, at the suggestion of Gruner & Jahr...

BROWN: The Publisher.

DAGOSTINO: The Publisher.

Some of that control was taken away, enough, to a degree, that she got very, very angry and felt that someone was messing around with her image and her view of life, which is what she was trying to present in this magazine.

BROWN: And, at that point, she got out, she bailed out, and they sued her for, what, $100 million?

DAGOSTINO: Yes, more than $100 million.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: And she countersued for a like amount.

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

BROWN: And a judge is going to decide all this, not a jury?

DAGOSTINO: Yes, no jury.

I don't know if it was inadvertent or not, but they waived the right to a jury trial in their original contracts. So it's one man, Judge Ira Gammerman, this no-nonsense judge, who is up there deciding the whole thing.

BROWN: And how is she as a witness? Is she a good witness?

DAGOSTINO: She's good. She was a little bit stiff at points, a little bit reserved, which you're not used to seeing in Rosie O'Donnell.

But she also made the judge laugh, made the whole courtroom laugh at times, and was adamantly telling the truth, at least as she sees it.

BROWN: What is the thrust of -- has she been cross-examined, by the way?

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

BROWN: What is sort of the thrust of the testimony, what she believed the contract said? The contract is there. It says what it says.

DAGOSTINO: Yes. It's funny. Any contract is interpretation of language.

BROWN: I've heard that.

(CROSSTALK)

DAGOSTINO: And she admitted that she didn't read the contract. She relied on her brother-in-law, who was her business manager, and these other advisers around her to do what she asked for, which was complete editorial control for her vision to appear in this magazine.

And what's come down is that, for the first year, that's how it operated. And when it was taken away, she felt that was a breach of contract.

BROWN: You're not going to like this question, but I'll ask you anyway. You've been sitting there all the time.

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

BROWN: Do you have a feel for how this is going, whether -- depending on your point of view -- the big, bad publisher or the wacky TV star is winning here?

DAGOSTINO: You know, I have to be the independent journalist.

But looking around the courtroom, talking to people in the courtroom, the overall feeling is that, right from the beginning, even though Gruner & Jahr presented their case first...

BROWN: Yes.

DAGOSTINO: ... it's swayed toward Rosie O'Donnell. She's presented her side. And her lawyers have presented more of a compelling argument for breach, and multiple types of breaches of the contract, than Gruner & Jahr has presented. Gruner has presented really an attack on Rosie's personality. And that's about it.

BROWN: Yes, they do seem to have trashed her pretty good.

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Nice to meet you. Thank you.

DAGOSTINO: A pleasure.

BROWN: You probably didn't expect you would be a court reporter in all of this.

(CROSSTALK)

DAGOSTINO: There it goes. You never know where this business will take you.

BROWN: No, you don't.

I know where this one will, though. Morning papers are next.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Time to check morning papers from around the country for a Friday -- actually, that's Saturday morning's paper. And not a whole lot of time tonight, because we've been long all evening, haven't we? You probably noticed that at home, too.

"The Times of London." Why not? "Prince Waits For Scandal to Erupt." The prince is actually out of the country. Where is he? In Oman -- so -- when all of this is going on, whatever it is that's going on. If you want to call me later, I'll tell you. Anyway, that's the story -- the lead story in "The Times of London."

"Weathering Textile Storm" is the lead in tomorrow morning's "Chattanooga Times Free Press." "Mount Vernon's Mills Positioned to Compete With China." That's tough to do. They're losing all those manufacturing jobs and textile jobs. They also put "Bad Day in Iraq" on the front page. "Copter Crash Kills Six in Iraq."

"The San Francisco Chronicle" similarly, but slightly different lead. "U.S. Death Toll Hits 32. Deadliest Week Since May. Six Die in Copter Attack" is their led story. They put the economy on the front page as well. I would, too. "Labor Market Catching Up to Rebound. Encouraging Reports on Jobs Suggests Recovery Has Arrived." I'm sure they care that I would put it on the front page as well. I don't know why I say things like that.

"Boston Herald." "Al Qaeda Targets Nukes. Feds Warn, Cargo Planes May Be Used to Hit Key Facilities."

How we doing on time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-two.

BROWN: Thirty-two, huh?

"San Antonio Express-News." "Another Black Hawk Down" is their lead. They lead with Iraq.

Quickly, and -- 20. And "The Washington Times," even. "U.S. Suffers Bloodiest Week Since Victory." Interesting choice of words there. And that's "The Washington Times."

We didn't get "The Sun-Times," but if we did, it would look something like that. The weather tomorrow in Chicago is "mitten time".

We'll take a break and wrap up the day in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we leave you for the night and the week, a quick update of our top story tonight.

Six American soldiers were killed today when their Black Hawk helicopter crashed near the Iraqi town of Tikrit. The chopper was apparently hit by enemy fire, possibly a rocket-propelled grenade. The crash brings to more than 30 the number of Americans killed this week in Iraq.

A bit of a lighter story to look forward to on Monday here on NEWSNIGHT, a peek at the process of creating and culling the cartoons chosen for "The New Yorker" cartoon issue, perhaps more difficult than cold fusion. Perhaps not. That and more on Monday on NEWSNIGHT.

We hope you have a wonderful weekend. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.

Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





to Take Hold of Cargo Planes; U.S. Temporarily Closes Embassy in Saudi Arabia>


Aired November 7, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, again.
A viewer who writes from time to time wrote again today. "Are we reaching the point" she asked "when these daily deaths of Americans in Iraq will lose their impact? Have we reached that point already"?

The deaths came in bunches this week, 15 on Sunday and one crash, another six today in another. Remembering the dead is not a political statement as some suggest. It is a human one and forgetting them or ignoring them or dismissing their deaths as just part of the job is not humane at all.

A tough day in Iraq tops the program and begins the whip. In Tikrit we begin, Nic Robertson is there, Nic a headline from you tonight.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, all six soldiers traveling aboard that Black Hawk helicopter died when it crashed just outside their base in Tikrit. This is the third such incident in two weeks and already there are indications that this helicopter like the other two may have been shot down -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.

Now to the Pentagon where for the second time in a week they are dealing with a deadly chopper crash. Jamie McIntyre is there for us, Jamie a headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, as tragic as the loss is of those six American soldiers in the downing of that Black Hawk helicopter the incident could have handed the insurgents an even greater psychological victory. In the helicopter traveling next to it was a two-star Army general.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you.

Now to a possible security threat at home. National Security Correspondent David Ensor is with us tonight. David, a headline from you.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the U.S. government is sending out a warning to local and state law enforcement that they have some information, single source and uncorroborated, suggesting that al Qaeda may be seeking to take hold of cargo planes, fly them into the United States and hit targets such as power plants -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, thank you. We'll get to you shortly.

And over at the State Department next and Andrea Koppel a major U.S. embassy being shut down as a security measure, Andrea the headline.

ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Aaron, not just the embassy but two U.S. consulates, a temporary shutdown expected to last only a few days but the warning is one that is certainly ominous, U.S. officials saying that terrorists have moved from the operational -- from the planning to the operational phase of terrorist attacks in the Saudi Kingdom -- Aaron.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also ahead on the program tonight we'll talk with filmmaker and author Michael Moore who is always eager to stir the pot a bit.

We'll also continue our series of stories on America's war wounded, an exclusive look at the hospital where the most seriously burned soldiers are taken and treated.

Later, the story that dare not speak its name, a denial from Prince Charles about an allegation we can't report but we can and will tell you what's in the morning papers with an intro from the rooster, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin in Tikrit, the northern end of Iraq's so-called Sunni Triangle and the end of one of the bloodiest weeks since the United States invaded in March. In the last seven days more than 30 Americans have been killed most in two helicopter crashes, crashes that raise questions about an enemy that is either getting very lucky or dangerously good.

Here's CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Just hours after the Black Hawk downed a show of U.S. military determination, mortars and other artillery fired.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're showing a little bit of force tonight and we got lots of different tools at our disposal.

ROBERTSON: Including F-16 aircraft dropping 500-pound bombs close to the crash site. This show of force perhaps the best indication yet military officials think the helicopter may have been shot down.

Earlier, as U.S. helicopter fly guard above the downed Black Hawk another helicopter swoops onto the dusty riverbank where the impact occurred. Debris spread over a large area beneath the ridgeline indicating a high speed impact. Residents in the densely populated housing overlooking the crash claim missiles were fired at the helicopter.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We still don't know what caused the helicopter to go down, whether it was mechanical or whether it was caused by hostile action. We have to wait for the results of the investigation to come back to be sure of that.

ROBERTSON: At the main coalition base in Tikrit, barely two miles, three kilometers from the crash, intense interest by troops, this the third helicopter downed in two weeks.

On Sunday, at least 16 U.S. troops died when their Chinook transport helicopter was apparently hit by a surface-to-air missile; and, on the 25th of October another Black Hawk near Tikrit downed by a rocket-propelled grenade injuring one soldier.

Both vehicle and foot patrols continue as normal and although they'll examine helicopter procedures officials here think it unlikely they'll be making significant changes in the near future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: Well, coalition officials say that any speculation that there may be a new offensive against helicopters is just that speculation but there is among the troops here, because they've seen three helicopters go down recently, a level of increased concern about the use of helicopters. Investigators, we are told, will continue their work. There may be some preliminary results in the next 24 hours -- Aaron.

BROWN: Just quickly this firing that you showed us, the mortar, the artillery, the F-16s, what were they shooting at anything in specific?

ROBERTSON: Well, I think they're more shooting into an area very close to where they believe the attackers not only of this Black Hawk helicopter but the last Black Hawk helicopter downed here very close to where those attackers made that attack and this is really designed to show them, not target them right now, but to show them what the U.S. military is capable of. The shells have been falling and the bombs have been falling in the fields around where the Black Hawk came down -- Aaron.

BROWN: Nic, thank you, Nic Robertson in Tikrit tonight.

More on the crash now from the Pentagon information about a high- ranking officer who was on a second helicopter flying with the one that went down, our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre joins us with that, Jamie good evening.

MCINTYRE: Well, good evening Aaron.

The U.S. military still not saying for sure whether enemy rocket fire brought down that Black Hawk helicopter but it does appear likely from the facts known so far and if that is the case it appears that a U.S. Army two-star general may have had a close call. The two Black Hawk helicopters were flying low over the Tigris River near Saddam Hussein's hometown of Tikrit when witnesses say a rocket-propelled grenade was launched from the marshy area below.

According to some accounts the rocket hit the second of the two helicopters and sent it crashing to the ground at high speed. Sources say on that first helicopter, the one that wasn't hit, was Major General Thomas Romig, the Judge Advocate General of the Army, the Army's top lawyer.

He's not based in Iraq and was apparently visiting on an undisclosed mission. Again, he is safe we're told. The U.S. military doesn't consider the loss of a high-ranking officer any more important than the loss of a junior officer or enlisted personnel but a successful attack on a two-star general could have given the U.S. insurgents a powerful morale boost.

Now just as when the rockets hit the al-Rashid Hotel when Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz was staying there, the U.S. doesn't know for sure whether these enemy forces had specific intelligence indicating that the general was on the helicopter or Wolfowitz was in the hotel. But, nevertheless, it does raise disturbing questions about what degree of intelligence the enemies of the United States in Iraq possess -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, going to the attack on the hotel that's a little more obvious whether Mr. Wolfowitz was there or others. That was in some respects an obvious target. Do they really think it's possible that someone might have known that this general was on one of those helicopters?

MCINTYRE: Well, I mean that's the question. I mean all the helicopters flying are targets if somebody can get off a shot that they think can take one down but this helicopter apparently was taking extra precautions. That might have in one way tipped off people that there was a VIP onboard.

Whether they had any idea who it was it's only speculation but it does raise the question whether, as you said earlier, are they getting lucky or just pretty good at what they're trying to do?

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

There is an alert here in the United States suggesting that terrorists may want to use cargo aircraft to stage attacks. This has been developing over the last couple of hours.

Our National Security Correspondent David Ensor has been working the story and David now joins us from Washington again, David good evening.

ENSOR: Good evening, Aaron.

Well, the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI are letting state and local law enforcement know that there is information from one source, uncorroborated, that al Qaeda may be looking for a way to get a hold of cargo aircraft, fly them into the United States, and hit targets such as nuclear power plants that according to a knowledgeable U.S. official that I've spoken to.

Now, my colleague Kelli Arena has also heard that an inlet, which is another type of advisory is going to be sent out this evening warning that there's similar information about cargo planes being used as weapons but dealing with Saudi Arabia, with targets in the nation of Saudi Arabia. So, some mixed reporting here but it all deals with cargo aircraft and the potential for their being used by al Qaeda as weapons -- Aaron.

BROWN: Now, just quickly one reason you would if you were a bad guy here would pick a cargo plane is that the security, at least security on American-based cargo planes is a lot less than it is for passenger planes.

ENSOR: That's exactly right. As we all know, life has become a lot more difficult. Travel has become more difficult since 9/11 since those attacks. We're all being checked much more closely but cargo planes do not have nearly the same security.

There have been improvements but officials are concerned they may not have done enough yet and these reports that we're hearing tonight will probably cause some re-looking at the security at cargo aircraft in the United States and perhaps around the world.

BROWN: And, again, what you're hearing is the targets are power plants and I think the Associated Press is reporting that they're hearing dams and bridges, so obviously there's a fair amount of chatter going on out there.

ENSOR: Well, that's right and the official I spoke to said this is chatter. This is not what he would call reliable, corroborated intelligence. It's chatter among people that the U.S. listens in on or watches the activities of because it suspects them of affiliation with al Qaeda. So, it's of concern but it's not that they're expecting an attack any minute now -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, thank you for working late tonight, David Ensor in Washington.

And for Americans in Saudi Arabia, the word concern comes up again, the government announcing that the U.S. Embassy and several consulates in Saudi Arabia will be closed temporarily due to what are called credible threats of an attack by al Qaeda, more from our State Department Correspondent Andrea Koppel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL (voice-over): The warning to Americans in the Saudi Kingdom was stark. The U.S. Embassy in Riyadh continues to receive credible information that terrorists in Saudi Arabia have moved from the planning to operational phase of planned attacks in the kingdom.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: In light of the seriousness of this existing threat, the embassy in Riyadh and the U.S. Consulates General in Jedda and Dhahran will close on Saturday, November 8th in order to review their security posture.

KOPPEL: Another State Department official told CNN the embassy and consulates would remain closed until at least the Veteran's Day holiday next week. Terror threats against Americans in Saudi Arabia are not new. In 1996, suicide bombers killed 19 Americans and wounded hundreds more at the Khobar Towers military complex in Dhahran.

For years, al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden used the U.S. military presence in the kingdom, now significantly reduced, to justify jihad against Americans. Saudi Arabia is custodian of Mecca and Medina, two of Islam's holiest sites. Most recently, al Qaeda is believed responsible for the May 12th suicide bombings of three western housing facilities in Riyadh.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOPPEL: And, U.S. officials tell CNN that the latest up tick in terror threats against Americans living in the Saudi kingdom suggests that al Qaeda may be planning these attacks sometime soon perhaps even during the holy month of Ramadan which is going on right now, although U.S. officials also say that the timing, Aaron, and the targets are not clear -- Aaron.

BROWN: Andrea, thank you, Andrea Koppel at the State Department.

With almost exactly a year to go before the presidential election there's almost no doubt what two issues are going to dominate the campaign, Iraq for one, the economy for the other.

While the president's approval numbers for handling Iraq are slipping in the latest CNN-USA Today Gallup poll, at the same time the percentage of Americans who approve of his handling of the economy has gone up.

No doubt a good sign for candidate Bush particularly when added to more good economic news that came out today from the White House, Correspondent Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For months, jobs have been the key missing ingredient for the president in a slowly rebounding economy. While White House officials were privately thrilled about figures showing Americans are starting to find jobs, Mr. Bush in North Carolina was cautious with his optimism.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's the beginning of good news for job seekers. Over the last three months the economy, the entrepreneurs, the private sector and others have driven the job base up.

BASH: The Labor Department reported the lowest jobless rate since April, 126,000 job created in October and September's figures revised, doubled to 125,000.

DAVID WINSTON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: That sound that you're hearing across the capital is Republicans breathing a sigh of relief.

BASH: Relief because voters have decided the last eight presidential elections on the economy and jobs. But even with the good news, manufacturing jobs are still disappearing. Democrats on the campaign trail continue to note the three million jobs lost since Mr. Bush took office.

GEN. WESLEY CLARK, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So many people have dropped out of the labor force so we've got a huge backlog of misery to deal with out there in this economy.

BASH: One of those backlogs is in the state the president was visiting. North Carolina lost a fifth of its manufacturing jobs over the last three years, most in the textile and furniture industries and they're not coming back.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was in a textile plant and it went overseas.

BUSH: Many blame unfair trade practices for job loss. Mr. Bush defended his policies but taking questions from workers being retrained for high tech jobs he was eager to show he understands the dilemma.

BUSH: As the economy changes, as technology changes, the slowest part of the change is the workforce.

BASH (on camera): The White House instituted a no gloating policy on the new numbers. As one aide said no spikes in the end zone here but one senior official did note the calendar hoping that good news would drive Americans to buy more during the holiday season making the economy even stronger at the start of the election year.

Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on this Friday edition of NEWSNIGHT, America's war wounded, a visit to the hospital where those who are burned get special treatment. NEWSNIGHT Correspondent Beth Nissen reports that.

And we'll talk with filmmaker and writer Michael Moore as well, lots to do on a Friday night.

This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: As we mentioned earlier, more than 30 Americans have been killed in Iraq in the last week alone. The Pentagon makes it much harder to determine how many soldiers are wounded in any given week but we do know that the wounded from this week or any week had better treatment than ever before that more of those wounded survive to get better instead of dying on the battlefield.

We also know that about ten percent of the injuries in modern wars, including Iraq, are from burns and burns are the worst sort of injuries you can get. The most seriously burned are flown to the burn unit at the Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas. Their recovery is slow and painful, not easy to contemplate nor easy to watch.

Tonight we ask you to do both. NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen was given extraordinary access to the burn unit and the people who work and recover there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN (voice-over): It is one of the most dangerous forces troops face in Iraq not just enemy fire but fire itself. Burn injuries from grenade blasts, explosions, flaming fuel can be so critical that special burn flight teams are on constant call to medivac the most seriously burn injured to Brook Army Medical Center in San Antonio. The burn teams have brought in 67 burn injured from Iraq so far.

CAPT. BRAD HUTTON, ARMY BURN FLIGHT TEAM: The severity of injury that you see in a burn center is amazing. I mean you won't see it anywhere else. It's amazing what the body can put up with and still and still function.

NISSEN: Specialist Aaron Coates is amazed he is still alive after a rocket-propelled grenade hit the fuel truck he was driving near Kirkuk August 30th.

SPC, AARON COATES, 273RD AIRBORNE BRIGADE: I am burned from my fingertips up to just past my elbows on this end and this one I was burned from my fingertips all the way up to my shoulder. This one I had burns all the way down to the bone. The bone itself was burned so they had to amputate six of my fingers, had all five on this hand just nipped the tips on these two.

NISSEN: Specialist Gabriel Garriga suffered second and third degree burns over 53 percent of his body when two Humvees collided and ignited at a checkpoint just south of Baghdad July 14th.

SPC. GABRIEL GARRIGA: My clothes were all charred from, you know, it was missing. It was burned off and my burned skin was hanging off and I just -- it just looked bad from what I could see on myself.

NISSEN: Burns are often as bad as they look. The skin is a vital organ the body's largest.

LT. COL. LEE CANCIO, MD, DIRECTOR, U.S. ARMY BURN UNIT: We don't fully appreciate what the skin does for us until we see a major burn. Once the skin is damaged or gone it's not possible for the body to prevent bacteria from invading from the outside in.

NISSEN: Burn wound care is a constant battle against infection involving daily dressing changes, cleaning wounds, wrapping wounds. It is some of the most difficult nursing work there is.

CAPT. DENNIS ESTRADA, ASSISTANT HEAD NURSE, BURN UNIT: You touch them it hurts. You bathe them it hurts.

STAFF SGT. DAVID WAYMON, ICU NURSE, BURN UNIT: You have to scrub, of course, to get any dead skin off and when you do that it's just painful.

ESTRADA: And I'm like if you have to scream or whatever please do it but unfortunately it's something that we have to do.

NISSEN: So, with surgery, Specialist Garriga has had 20 operations so far, many to cut patches of unburned skin from his back and graft them onto his burned legs, arms and hands. Surgery is followed by intensive, often painful, physical therapy.

MAJ. WILLIAM AIKEN, HEAD NURSE, BURN UNIT: You start an immediate rehab, get their hands moving, get their shoulders moving because if that skin tightens up they can't, you know, they can't comb their hair. They can't brush their teeth. They can't open the door. They can't use their hands in activities of daily living.

NISSEN: Most of the Operation Iraqi Freedom patients have burns to their hands, arms, and legs. Specialist Edward Stephenson's lower legs were burned almost to the bone when his convoy hit two explosive devices near Tikrit October 1st.

SPC. EDWARD STEPHENSON, 132ND INFANTRY DIVISION: The pain is a constant thing. I have pain all the time. You know they give me pain medication and it dulls the pain which helps but it's always there.

NISSEN: Not all of his pain is physical.

STEPHENSON: I've had a lot of flashbacks and nightmares. All's I remember is hearing my two friends screaming. I, myself, was screaming because my hands were starting to melt due to the heat.

NISSEN: The burn unit team knows burns leave psychological scars as well as physical ones.

MAJ. SANDRA WANEK, MD, BURN SURGEON: It's very psychologically traumatizing because it's disfiguring. They have scars every day. They'll look at that. That will never be completely normal. They will be reminded of that every day.

NISSEN: Yet nurses and doctors here say most of the young soldiers on the unit are remarkably resilient, positive.

COATES: I got the attitude I can't go back and glue my fingers back on. I know that so there's no point sitting here worrying about it.

GARRIGA: I don't regret this happened. I don't regret going to Iraq or anything. I feel like I served my country. You know I've been through the worst. It can only get better.

NISSEN: Day by day, step by step.

Beth Nissen CNN, San Antonio, Texas. (END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT the dangers faced by those trying to cover the war.

A break first, we'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Funny what's happened to the word provocative, it's not exactly a compliment these days and yet to provoke is to make think, to make react, to rouse from sleep or complacency. That is seems to us, agree or not, is a good thing.

That said we're joined now by the provocative Michael Moore, documentarian and writer, most recently of a volume called "Dude, Where's my Country"? It's always nice to see him. I don't think, I don't believe you've been on the program since a few days after the Oscars, maybe the Monday after the Oscars.

MICHAEL MOORE, FILMMAKER, "BOWLING FOR COLUMBINE": Right, right.

BROWN: Has that all died down?

MOORE: I don't know if it was ever -- I don't know if it ever died up.

BROWN: Really?

MOORE: Yes. It was -- the response I got was really incredible. I mean it was very, very positive, has been very positive, even more so now. I mean on March 23rd to say that we were fighting a war for fictitious reasons seemed a little maybe out there but now, you know, in November everybody knows it's the truth.

BROWN: I want to talk about books for a second.

MOORE: Yes.

BROWN: Look at the, and I did actually before coming up, nine of the top 30 books on "The New York Times" best seller list are political books, some right, some left, about evenly split. What does that tell you?

MOORE: Well, I don't know if they're so evenly split. I mean there's that many on there but the books on the left sell far more than the books on the right. That's very (unintelligible).

BROWN: Well, I don't know. For a long time -- I mean I think the newer books out there now happen to come from the left. Al Franken's book has been out on the best seller list a bit but before that there was O'Reilly books and Ann Coulter books.

MOORE: Yes, but they don't sell anywhere near what we sell.

BROWN: Is that right? MOORE: Oh, yes, and Hillary too. I mean Hillary is like what close to $2 million? "Stupid White Men" my book last year sold four million copies worldwide. I'm already at a million and a half of this book. There's far more people that believe the way we believe.

BROWN: I mean people on the left -- well, or far more people who buy books.

MOORE: No, I believe that -- no, I believe that we live in a much more liberal country that...

BROWN: But when people are asked they won't -- honestly they don't -- very few people say they are liberals.

MOORE: Yes, yes because liberals made it a dirty word, liberal leaders especially.

BROWN: Yes.

MOORE: But when asked on the issues, when you ask most Americans, you know, how do you feel about, do you think there should be a higher minimum wage? Do you think we should have stronger environmental laws? Are you pro choice? The majority answer yes on all those things so on the issues the American public is very liberal. We just don't like liberal leaders because it seems like an oxymoron, you know. Liberal leaders don't usually lead.

BROWN: Let's talk about Iraq for a minute. We're there. What would you do?

MOORE: Get out.

BROWN: How?

MOORE: Go back to the United Nations, apologize, ask the other countries in this world to please take over the responsibility for rebuilding this country that we helped to destroy and remove our troops from the situation.

BROWN: Just get them out?

MOORE: Absolutely, yes.

BROWN: What if the...

MOORE: We're not seen as the liberators there.

BROWN: Some do, some don't, but in any case what about if the Americans leave now and if no one else goes in what happens?

MOORE: What do you mean if we leave now?

BROWN: Yes, if we leave now.

MOORE: If we leave now that means no more American soldiers are going to be killed. BROWN: Right, what's (unintelligible) for Iraq and the Middle East.

MOORE: If you support the troops -- well, you know, we have to apologize for what we did the situation there. I mean, you know, first of all, Saddam Hussein was our guy back in the '80s. We supplied him with the weapons of mass destruction. And then we went in there and had these sanctions for 12 years and created a horrible situation, where thousands of people died and just messed up the whole country. And now we've gone in there. And what have we done? What have we done, really? What, brought democracy to Iraq, overthrown Saddam Hussein?

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: That, we've done.

MOORE: Oh, really? Oh, where is he?

BROWN: I don't know.

MOORE: Well, I don't call that an overthrow. That's not a win. That doesn't go down in the win category.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Michael, just come back to the question. If the Americans leave now, what happens there? Is it better there if the Americans leave now or is it a more dangerous place?

(CROSSTALK)

MOORE: Well, it's always been a pretty much a dangerous place.

BROWN: I agree with that.

MOORE: But it's better now that we get out of there and let other countries who are more neutral and whose oil companies will not be controlling the situation, let them take over. And I think they'll have the trust of the Iraqi people more than our oil companies and, sadly, our soldiers, who are dying. They're just not -- they don't enjoy the support of the Iraqi people.

BROWN: In 15, 20 seconds, do you think the president will be reelected?

MOORE: No, I don't, no.

You know why? Because he lied to the American people. And the American people don't like being lied to. And that's what they have figured out. And they don't like the government's hand coming into their wallet and asking for $87 billion to pay for a lie.

Just, in your daily life, if your wife lied to you and then wanted -- by the way, in addition to the lie, give me $87 billion. How would you feel? That's -- breaking it down to just the simple facts, that's how most people feel. And they're not going to support this. And I don't think they're going to support him next year.

BROWN: Michael, it's always good to see you. Come back soon.

MOORE: Thanks for having me here.

BROWN: Thank you, Michael Moore.

MOORE: All right.

BROWN: Still to come on the program, a scandal we can't tell you about.

And up next, the story of the people trying to get the story and the dangers they face.

We'll take a break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And lots more NEWSNIGHT ahead, including morning papers, of course, and the denial from Prince Charles. If only we knew what he was denying.

We'll take a break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Terry Lloyd, Michael Kelly, David Bloom, names you might or might not remember. They are the names of some of the journalists who died while covering the war in Iraq this year, their stories, unfortunately, just three of many in "Dying to Tell the Story," a new book on war reporting edited by one of our friends and colleagues and the person who is literally responsible for us being able to say, "Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT."

Chris Cramer runs CNN International and he joins us from our London bureau.

Chris, it's nice to see you.

There are people, I think, listening here who will say, a book about journalists who died, well, that's a nice thing, but it's essentially a vanity thing, something reporters do for other reporters. Why is it important to recognize their work and their deaths?

CHRIS CRAMER, MANAGING DIRECTOR, CNN INTERNATIONAL: Well, for a number of reasons, Aaron, I think.

Let's just look at some statistics. In the last decade, something like 1,000 members of the media have died covering the story. It's November now. So far this year around the world, certainly 60, if not more, journalists or members of the media have died. And we have two months to go.

What the book is designed to do is, first of all, look at a detailed tribute, if you like, to the colleagues who have died in a tiny period, four or five weeks and the few weeks afterwards in Iraq, which is an extraordinary statistic, 16 dead, two missing, almost certainly dead, three or four dead since then. And the death toll continues to rise.

And, obviously, the public will say, well, you are there as -- you don't have to go there, to which the answer is, of course the media don't have to go there. But they go there, I think, as representatives of the audience, representatives of newspaper readers. So the book is a tribute to colleagues. And it also goes on to discuss some other issues which are, if you like, even more worrying. Are journalists becoming targets for some factions and regimes around the world?

Is this death toll, this attrition rate, completely out of whack? If you applied the number of journalists and media who died in Iraq in those few weeks earlier this year and you put it alongside the 14 or 15 years of the Vietnam War, the death toll would have been something like 2,500. That's an incredible statistic and it's a very worrying statistic.

BROWN: Do you think that, in some degree, we're responsible -- we are -- responsible for this, that we reporters live with an illusion that we are somehow invincible?

CRAMER: Oh, I think there is something in that.

I think the media profession, which is inhabited by people who, by and large, are extremely bright, is very dim when it comes to one issue, which is their own personal safety. I think journalists from my generation used to think that you went off to war zones without any training, without any equipment. You have this halo around your head. You have this protective shield around you. And it's simply not true.

So the International News Safety Institute, which published this book, also has been, for the last year or so, looking at the issue of journalist safety. Incredibly, some media organizations sent their staff to Iraq earlier this year without any training, without any equipment, without any basic guidelines to follow. And that's just completely ridiculous.

BROWN: Just a couple more.

Who do you think the -- who did you have in mind when you edited the book, when the book was being put together? Who wants to read this?

CRAMER: I think it's primarily for the profession. I think the profession, which needs to come out of the dark ages when it comes to believing that they can drive around the world, not be targets for robbery, assault, attack, hostage-taking, murder. And many, I'm afraid, of our colleagues still believe that to be the case.

But I would like to think that the audience is -- to television programs like this and readers of newspapers -- believe like I believe, that the flow of information is precious around the world. It's something which is -- we should not take for granted. And if journalists who you work with and I work with are not prepared any longer to go into hostile environments and cover the news, then who's going to do it for the audiences? Who's going to do it for newspaper readers?

And that would be a tragedy. If the information flow around the world dried up because journalists were concerned about their personal safety, that would be a tragedy.

BROWN: Chris, it's nice to see you, even this way, electronically. Good luck with the project. We appreciate your time -- Chris Cramer from London tonight.

A story now from here in the United States, some unsettling pictures from a high school in Goose Creek, South Carolina. Armed men entered the school with guns drawn, ordering students to the ground, security cameras capturing it all. In the aftermath, the fact that the gunmen were cops carrying out a drug search only seemed to anger some parents more.

Heather Hamel of CNN affiliate WCSC in Charleston on the raid, the anger, and the response.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This was like a real-life situation yesterday. This was not a drill.

HEATHER HAMEL, WCSC REPORTER (voice-over): Police officers with guns drawn screaming for kids to get on the floor so their bags could be searched for drugs.

PRINCIPAL GEORGE MCCRACKIN, STRATFORD HIGH SCHOOL: Stratford High School has always had a reputation of being a safe, clean school. And I'll utilize whatever forces that I deem necessary to keep this campus safe and clean.

HAMEL: But some parents were furious, saying it went too far.

LATONIA SIMMONS, PARENT: Mow why did he have to take all that force? You know, there were innocent kids. They were just minding their own business getting ready for class.

HAMEL: The police say not everyone is innocent. A lot of drug activity has been seen in this very hall. But some say pointing loaded weapons at kids isn't the answer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, that was just enough to frustrate any parent.

LT. DAVE AARONS, GOOSE CREEK POLICE DEPARTMENT: Some of the officers had their weapons drawn at a low ready position, which is not pointing at faces or heads of students. It was down in a position where, should somebody who has drugs on them and fears that -- of getting caught and for some reason if they made a poor decision and decided to use a weapon for means of escape, then, you know, we were able to address that.

HAMEL: Officers say it was for everyone's safety. They did handcuff several students who wouldn't get down.

MCCRACKIN: I don't think it was an overreaction on our part. I'm sure it was an inconvenience to those individuals who were on that hallway. But I think there is a valuable experience there.

HAMEL: A canine officer did smell drugs in 12 bookbags, but nothing was actually found. But police aren't discouraged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've sent a message to the folks distributing and dealing drugs at the school that, you know, we know you're doing that. We have no hesitation to come in and address it.

HAMEL: As for repeating this shocking scene?

MCCRACKIN: If we have to, we will.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That was Heather Hamel of CNN affiliate WCSC in Charleston.

Ahead on the program: day two of Rosie on the witness stand; and a story so scandalous, we can't even tell you what Prince Charles is denying. My goodness.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Fair to say that Britain is in a royal tizzy over something. We just can't tell you what.

Here's CNN's Walter Rodgers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WALTER RODGERS, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Prince Charles is on a state visit to Oman, but he's issued a categorical denial that he was ever involved in an alleged incident, which cannot be reported for legal reasons, but which some say could shake the British monarchy to the core.

Totally ludicrous, Charles says. The allegations said to involve the heir to the British thrown cannot be discussed nor disclosed because of a high court injunction block publication in the U.K. But the prince does acknowledge he is the high royal alleged to have been involved. Charles' private secretary, Sir Michael Peat, said the prince's preemptive denial even before the allegations are public here is aimed at putting an end to damaging speculation.

SIR MICHAEL PEAT, SENIOR ROYAL AIDE: Others are discussing it. And the allegations are becoming common currency. It's the subject of much speculation and innuendo. And I just want to make it entirely clear, even though I can't refer to the specifics of the allegation, that it's totally untrue and without a shred of substance.

RODGERS: Denials aside, the newspaper headlines, even with very little of substance to print, are now suggesting the future of the British royal family hangs in the balance. Other royals watchers disagree.

ROBERT JOBSON, ROYAL COMMENTATOR: I think the monarchy will ride this one out. They've ridden most of the scandals of the recent years, since the death of the late Princess Diana, out. I'm sure they'll ride this one out, if indeed it does surface. The reality of the situation is, the royal family are not elected. Therefore, they can have the advantage of time being on their side. And they would just keep their -- their powder dry for the next couple of years.

RODGERS: The allegations of a scandalous incident have been circulating inside media offices for weeks now. The Charles denial may have given the rumors new life by triggering even greater media and public attention.

(on camera): Some of the allegations are already on the Internet, beyond the control of the British courts. And many are now beginning to ask, if, by going public, Prince Charles may not have shot himself in the foot.

Walter Rodgers, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, since we're in the mood, Rosie O'Donnell took the witness stand in the sixty day of a trial in which she and her former publishers are accusing one another of sinking the magazine that went by her name.

To talk about the latest in the matter of "Rosie" the magazine and Rosie the woman and Rosie the lawsuit, we're joined now by "People" magazine reporter Mark Dagostino, who has been following ring around the Rosie for a bit here.

Welcome.

She was on the witness stand today.

MARK DAGOSTINO, "PEOPLE": She was.

BROWN: The central issue is who breached the contract, right?

DAGOSTINO: That's it. This really is a contract dispute, despite all the theatrics and the sometimes tears and kind of horrible things we've heard about how mean Rosie can be. None of that really matters in the end. It's a contract dispute.

BROWN: And the argument centers around whether or not she had absolute creative control?

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

BROWN: And did she?

DAGOSTINO: Well, according to what she was told and what she believed and how her people read the contract that they originally signed, yes, she had editorial control. And for the whole first year of the magazine, she approved every cover, every title, every story, every photograph in the magazine.

And then, all of a sudden, once a new editor was hired, at the suggestion of Gruner & Jahr...

BROWN: The Publisher.

DAGOSTINO: The Publisher.

Some of that control was taken away, enough, to a degree, that she got very, very angry and felt that someone was messing around with her image and her view of life, which is what she was trying to present in this magazine.

BROWN: And, at that point, she got out, she bailed out, and they sued her for, what, $100 million?

DAGOSTINO: Yes, more than $100 million.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: And she countersued for a like amount.

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

BROWN: And a judge is going to decide all this, not a jury?

DAGOSTINO: Yes, no jury.

I don't know if it was inadvertent or not, but they waived the right to a jury trial in their original contracts. So it's one man, Judge Ira Gammerman, this no-nonsense judge, who is up there deciding the whole thing.

BROWN: And how is she as a witness? Is she a good witness?

DAGOSTINO: She's good. She was a little bit stiff at points, a little bit reserved, which you're not used to seeing in Rosie O'Donnell.

But she also made the judge laugh, made the whole courtroom laugh at times, and was adamantly telling the truth, at least as she sees it.

BROWN: What is the thrust of -- has she been cross-examined, by the way?

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

BROWN: What is sort of the thrust of the testimony, what she believed the contract said? The contract is there. It says what it says.

DAGOSTINO: Yes. It's funny. Any contract is interpretation of language.

BROWN: I've heard that.

(CROSSTALK)

DAGOSTINO: And she admitted that she didn't read the contract. She relied on her brother-in-law, who was her business manager, and these other advisers around her to do what she asked for, which was complete editorial control for her vision to appear in this magazine.

And what's come down is that, for the first year, that's how it operated. And when it was taken away, she felt that was a breach of contract.

BROWN: You're not going to like this question, but I'll ask you anyway. You've been sitting there all the time.

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

BROWN: Do you have a feel for how this is going, whether -- depending on your point of view -- the big, bad publisher or the wacky TV star is winning here?

DAGOSTINO: You know, I have to be the independent journalist.

But looking around the courtroom, talking to people in the courtroom, the overall feeling is that, right from the beginning, even though Gruner & Jahr presented their case first...

BROWN: Yes.

DAGOSTINO: ... it's swayed toward Rosie O'Donnell. She's presented her side. And her lawyers have presented more of a compelling argument for breach, and multiple types of breaches of the contract, than Gruner & Jahr has presented. Gruner has presented really an attack on Rosie's personality. And that's about it.

BROWN: Yes, they do seem to have trashed her pretty good.

DAGOSTINO: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Nice to meet you. Thank you.

DAGOSTINO: A pleasure.

BROWN: You probably didn't expect you would be a court reporter in all of this.

(CROSSTALK)

DAGOSTINO: There it goes. You never know where this business will take you.

BROWN: No, you don't.

I know where this one will, though. Morning papers are next.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Time to check morning papers from around the country for a Friday -- actually, that's Saturday morning's paper. And not a whole lot of time tonight, because we've been long all evening, haven't we? You probably noticed that at home, too.

"The Times of London." Why not? "Prince Waits For Scandal to Erupt." The prince is actually out of the country. Where is he? In Oman -- so -- when all of this is going on, whatever it is that's going on. If you want to call me later, I'll tell you. Anyway, that's the story -- the lead story in "The Times of London."

"Weathering Textile Storm" is the lead in tomorrow morning's "Chattanooga Times Free Press." "Mount Vernon's Mills Positioned to Compete With China." That's tough to do. They're losing all those manufacturing jobs and textile jobs. They also put "Bad Day in Iraq" on the front page. "Copter Crash Kills Six in Iraq."

"The San Francisco Chronicle" similarly, but slightly different lead. "U.S. Death Toll Hits 32. Deadliest Week Since May. Six Die in Copter Attack" is their led story. They put the economy on the front page as well. I would, too. "Labor Market Catching Up to Rebound. Encouraging Reports on Jobs Suggests Recovery Has Arrived." I'm sure they care that I would put it on the front page as well. I don't know why I say things like that.

"Boston Herald." "Al Qaeda Targets Nukes. Feds Warn, Cargo Planes May Be Used to Hit Key Facilities."

How we doing on time?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thirty-two.

BROWN: Thirty-two, huh?

"San Antonio Express-News." "Another Black Hawk Down" is their lead. They lead with Iraq.

Quickly, and -- 20. And "The Washington Times," even. "U.S. Suffers Bloodiest Week Since Victory." Interesting choice of words there. And that's "The Washington Times."

We didn't get "The Sun-Times," but if we did, it would look something like that. The weather tomorrow in Chicago is "mitten time".

We'll take a break and wrap up the day in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we leave you for the night and the week, a quick update of our top story tonight.

Six American soldiers were killed today when their Black Hawk helicopter crashed near the Iraqi town of Tikrit. The chopper was apparently hit by enemy fire, possibly a rocket-propelled grenade. The crash brings to more than 30 the number of Americans killed this week in Iraq.

A bit of a lighter story to look forward to on Monday here on NEWSNIGHT, a peek at the process of creating and culling the cartoons chosen for "The New Yorker" cartoon issue, perhaps more difficult than cold fusion. Perhaps not. That and more on Monday on NEWSNIGHT.

We hope you have a wonderful weekend. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.

Good night for all of us.

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