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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Massachusetts Supreme Court Legalizes Gay Marriage; Judge Orders Peterson to Stand Trial; Police Raid Neverland Ranch

Aired November 18, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
There is a be careful what you wish for quality to our lead story tonight, the Massachusetts Supreme Court decision that all but legalized gay marriage in that state.

Could it turn out that that decision creates a political rallying cry for those who oppose such things, and there are many, that it becomes the wedge issue of the campaign ahead that this day becomes the perfect example of the law of unintended consequences?

It is part of a complicated and emotional story that leads the program and begins the whip. CNN's Dan Lothian starts us off from Boston, Dan a headline from you tonight.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Aaron, it was a landmark decision here in the state of Massachusetts, the state becoming the first in the nation to essentially legalize same-sex marriages but, of course, that won't take place for about 180 days. We'll explain why in just a few minutes. As you can imagine this is controversial. Those who were pushing for it are elated. Those who are against it are angry -- Aaron.

BROWN: Dan, thank you, good to see you tonight.

Next to a pair of stories that are relatively new to the program, first the murder of Laci Peterson and now the murder trial of her husband Scott. CNN's David Mattingly has been covering the hearing in Modesto, David a headline.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a preliminary hearing fails to produce a smoking gun but more than enough for a judge to decide its time for Scott Peterson to stand trial for the murders of his wife Laci and their unborn child -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, thank you.

And finally, strange and strangely familiar developments regarding the singer Michael Jackson, a lot of secrecy as usual but enough there to raise an eyebrow, CNN's Frank Buckley is near Santa Barbara, California, Frank a headline.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, on the same day that Michael Jackson's newest CD came out investigators descended on his Neverland Ranch here. A source with knowledge of the investigation telling CNN they are looking into allegations of child molestation.

BROWN: Frank, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also tonight, President Bush's trip to Britain what he hopes to accomplish there, how he will be received.

Later the missing brother of Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean a 30-year-old mystery that may finally have been solved.

As we continue our series on the assassination of President Kennedy, the 40th anniversary this week, we'll talk with former President Gerald Ford. Mr. Ford is the last surviving member of the Warren Commission which investigated JFK's death.

And we'll end, as always, with a check of tomorrow morning's papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with a passage from the decision handed down today by the Massachusetts Supreme Court. Margaret Marshall, the Chief Justice, writing for a narrow majority on the subject of marriage.

"Marriage" she writes "is a vital social institution. The exclusive commitment of two individuals to each other nurtures love and support. It brings stability to our society," a plainspoken defense of marriage as you could ever hope to see. Unless, or you happen to see it precisely the opposite way as an assault, the latest of several on marriage and society.

We have two reports tonight, a serious discussion as well. We begin with CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice-over): Linda Davies and Gloria Bailey have been partners for 32 years but it took a Massachusetts high court ruling for one of them to finally pop the question.

LINDA DAVIES, PLAINTIFF: I finally asked her to marry me because she told me she couldn't answer until we could legally do it and I'm happy to tell the world she said yes.

LOTHIAN: Their opponents are not celebrating, instead calling the ruling demoralizing.

PHIL TRAVIS (D), MASSACHUSETTS STATE REP.: I think it flies in the face of what we know in Massachusetts as marriage and have demonstrated since our founding.

LOTHIAN: This case began winding its way through the courts in 2001 when seven Massachusetts same-sex couples were denied marriage licenses from their city or town halls. GLAD, the gay and lesbian organization, filed a lawsuit which ended up in the state Supreme Court and resulted in a 4-3 landmark decision. MARY BONAUTO, PLAINTIFF'S LAWYER: Finally all families in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts will have the opportunity to be equal families under the law.

LOTHIAN: The court concluded that: "Barring an individual from the protections, benefits and obligations of civil marriage solely because that person would marry a person of the same sex, violates the Massachusetts constitution."

No wedding bells yet. The court has given the legislature 180 days to "take whatever actions it may deem necessary." What that means, say legal experts, is unclear.

PAUL MARTINEK, EDITOR, "LAWYERS WEEKLY": The court has clearly put the ball in the court of the legislature. It's up to them to decide what to do while the court hasn't clearly said what the legislature can do.

LOTHIAN: In Vermont, the legislature was given a choice by the court, marriage or civil unions. Lawmakers chose civil unions. In Hawaii and Alaska, high courts also ruled in favor of same-sex marriages but in both cases the legislatures amended their constitutions to ban them.

In Massachusetts, same-sex couples are confident there are no options to derail their dreams and equally confident opponents promising a fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The court I believe has overstepped its bounds.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: What lawmakers here are looking at is that constitutional amendment which would essentially lay out marriage as in between a man and a woman but that couldn't get before the voters before 2006, so barring anything that legal experts don't see at this point gay couples could get married in 180 days -- Aaron.

BROWN: Is there any talk of a middle road here, a compromise that says no to marriage but yes to civil unions in the way that Vermont did?

LOTHIAN: Well that is something that state lawmakers have been discussing for quite some time but at this point it seems like it is too late for that to happen. The court has ruled and lawmakers are saying they have few options at this point.

All they have is that constitutional amendment. As I mentioned, they don't see anything happening with that until 2006. By then many couples could be married for several years.

BROWN: Dan, thank you, Dan Lothian our Boston Bureau Chief tonight.

Years ago the woman's movement had a slogan "the personal is political" is how it went. Over the years any number of causes have picked up on the notion from all sides of the political spectrum.

It's gotten to the point that when it comes to everything from the bedroom to the death bed it would be hard to say that anything isn't political anymore and that's doubly so in an election year.

That side of the story from CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): You'd expect that gay rights groups would be celebrating the ruling of the Massachusetts Supreme Court but there's another place where they might well have been swapping high-fives, the West Wing of the White House, why?

Because the ruling puts the whole gay marriage question squarely into the political arena and that's just about the last thing Democratic presidential contenders want.

(on camera): Now, to understand the Democrats' dilemma you have to go back to last June to a U.S. Supreme Court decision on sodomy and to the political fallout that case triggered.

(voice-over): Back in June, the high court in a 6-3 decision said there were no valid grounds on which a state could punish private sex acts among consenting adults, gay or straight.

In a blistering dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia said this decision called into question just about every law protecting what he called order and morality, including laws banning adult incest, prostitution, and same-sex marriages.

Apparently, concerns about gay marriage triggered a sharp change in public opinion on gay rights in general. In a CNN-USA Today Gallup poll back in May, 60 percent had said that homosexual relations between consenting adults should be legal. By July, that number dropped to 48 percent and last month voters said by a 26 point margin that they oppose gay marriage.

As for the major Democratic presidential contenders, all of them favor some sort of civil union and all oppose gay marriage and now the Massachusetts Supreme Court has raised that specter again.

Yes, this latest decision involves an interpretation of the state constitution but the United States Constitution has a full faith and credit clause. It requires one state to honor the holdings of another. That's why your California marriage, for instance, is valid everywhere else.

Now it was just this fear that some state might legalize gay marriage that led the Congress to pass and President Clinton to sign the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. It says, among other things, that marriage means one man, one woman.

But here's the catch. What if the U.S. court's sodomy decision means there are no valid grounds for a state to refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage? In that case, the Defense of Marriage Act is out and a gay marriage in one state would have to be recognized in every state.

President Bush has already said where he stands on this matter.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman and I think we ought to codify that one way or the other.

GREENFIELD: That view by the way is somewhat different than the one Vice President Cheney, one of whose children is openly gay, offered during the 2000 vice presidential debate.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think different states are likely to come to different conclusions and that's appropriate. I don't think there should necessarily be a federal policy in this area.

GREENFIELD (on camera): It's possible, of course, that Massachusetts will act to remove this issue from the political arena by amending its own state constitution and defining marriage as one man, one woman. That's what Hawaii did.

But that will take time and meanwhile this whole gay marriage question will be squarely inside the political arena exactly the kind of hot button issue that has vexed the Democrats for so long.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We'll have more on this in our next segment, a debate, a discussion really. Joining us conservative writer Bill Bennett and gay rights activist Joan Garry that's in the next section tonight.

To other things now, to no one's surprise a California Court has ordered Scott Peterson to stand trial for the murder of his wife Laci and their unborn child. The threshold for a decision like this is not very high.

The state doesn't have to prove very much but the hearing went on for days and days and gave us a glimpse of how each side will play what is truly a life or death game when the trial actually begins the report tonight from CNN's David Mattingly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): After weeks of arguments and evidence, a judge wasted no time at the end of this preliminary hearing immediately ordering Scott Peterson to stay in jail awaiting trial for the murders of his wife Laci and their unborn child.

LEE PETERSON, DEFENDANT'S FATHER: We're not surprised but the trial is going to be something again.

MATTINGLY: Peterson's parents exited the courthouse after listening to detectives describe how Scott was arrested in April in a car loaded with clothes, camping equipment and nearly $15,000 cash, how Scott and his girlfriend Amber Frey exchanged 241 phone calls in 93 days, more than 50 of them in the week after Laci was reported missing and how Scott came to Amber crying two weeks before Laci's disappearance and told her he had lost his wife.

In one call taped by police two weeks after Laci disappeared court transcripts shown to reporters show an angry Frey demanding answers. "How did you lose her then before she was lost? Explain that" she said. Peterson replied "there's different kinds of loss, Amber."

Frey had already come forward to police at the time of this call. It was apparently the first time Peterson attempted to explain his marriage and Laci's disappearance another piece in the prosecution's puzzle but in a case that has yet to produce a smoking gun.

MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We're gratified at least that we're this much closer to trial and hopefully at trial vindication for Scott.

MATTINGLY: Defense attorney Mark Geragos will attempt to overturn the judge's decision, arguing there was not enough evidence presented to send Peterson to trial.

There's also the issue of where to have the trial. The defense may argue that notoriety of the case may make it impossible for Scott Peterson to get a fair trial anywhere near Modesto, a concern shared by prosecutors.

JOHN GOOLD, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: If we can have this trial held here we want the trial held here. We do not want the trial held though if it's not going to be properly done, if the jury pool is so biased that the defendant can't get a fair trial because that doesn't work for anybody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Wherever an impartial is eventually found for this case the question remains what do prosecutors have to show the jury that cinches the case against Scott Peterson?

After 11 days of testimony we have before us what is essentially a circumstantial case, a lot of strange behavior by Scott Peterson, one hair found in his boat that may or may not belong to Laci Peterson and one girlfriend -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, let me just turn that around on you for a second, not so much what the prosecution has to show because there's a lot of strong feelings out there. What does the -- where does the defense case seem to lie? Where is the strength of the defense case?

MATTINGLY: Leading up to this preliminary hearing there was a lot of discussion from sources inside the defense at times about theories, about that Laci was abducted by a satanic cult and murdered in some kind of ritual. They hinted around at possibly looking at the fact that the baby was born before -- the baby was born alive and other elements that might play into that theory but, again, that theory did not come up in this preliminary hearing. That is something that the defense might try to use to get some sort of reasonable doubt on the part of the jury when this does go to trial.

BROWN: David, thank you very much, David Mattingly in Modesto.

Tonight seems to be the night for such things. From Modesto, we move south in California to Neverland, from Scott Peterson to Michael Jackson. Police today descended on his mansion.

People started asking the same old uncomfortable questions about the singer's relationship with young children, reporting for us tonight CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): More than 60 investigators from the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department and District Attorney's Office descended on Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch to execute a search warrant, a source with knowledge of the investigation telling CNN they are looking into allegations of child molestation.

Entertainer Michael Jackson was not home and he hasn't been at the Neverland Ranch for two and a half weeks according to his spokesman who said in a statement: "We cannot comment on law enforcement's investigation because we do not yet know what it is about." A Jackson employee who was at the home when the search warrant was executed says he has never witnessed any improper behavior.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been working here for too long, 14 years and I never see anything wrong, anything strange, so he loves the kids, all the kids.

BUCKLEY: In 1994, Jackson reached an undisclosed financial settlement with a 14-year-old boy who said he had stayed at Neverland Ranch and alleged sexual molestation. Jackson maintained his innocence and was never charged with a crime.

Earlier this year, though, he raised eyebrows when he told British journalist Martin Bashir that he sometimes shares his bed with children at the Neverland Ranch but Jackson told Bashir: "It's not sexual -- we're going to sleep. I tuck them in."

BRYAN MICHAEL STOLLER, JACKSON FRIEND: If he says that they shared a bed then he meant that he shared a bed like a father and a son would share a bed. I think if there was anything that was sexual he wouldn't have even brought that up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And, Aaron, tonight there are still investigators here at the Neverland Ranch, some 11 hours after they arrived to begin executing this search warrant. It isn't clear what, if anything, they've removed. We're hoping to get some answers tomorrow during a news conference with the Santa Barbara County Sheriff and the district attorney -- Aaron.

BROWN: Just quickly all the documents here sealed?

BUCKLEY: That's right. With the search warrant it's going to be at least ten days before we know exactly what the contents of the search warrant are and they could remain sealed even beyond that.

BROWN: Frank, thank you, Frank Buckley out west tonight.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll hear from both sides on the gay marriage issue.

Later, with President Bush now in Britain we'll look at what he hopes to accomplish during a state visit there.

And as the 40th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination approaches we talk with former President Gerald Ford, the last surviving member of the Warren Commission.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We want to return now to the intersection of marriage and equality and morality and all the rest that somehow make up who we are as a society you know the simple things. That shouldn't take more than six minutes or so to sort that all out should it?

Two points of view tonight, two sides of the question, certainly not the only two. First, Bill Bennett, former cabinet member, moralist, author of many books on many subjects. He joins us in Washington tonight. It's always good to see him. Mr. Bennett, welcome again.

BILL BENNETT: Thank you.

BROWN: Do this for me if you will. Set aside the "M" word the word marriage for a minute.

BENNETT: OK.

BROWN: And tell me what, if anything, is so terrible about a legal state that encourages commitment between two people of the same sex but commitment and grants them certain property rights that married people have. Why is that so terrible if it is?

BENNETT: I'm not sure it is terrible, although I would grant people rights not based on their sexual relationship. I'd be prepared for states to grant people rights because of the fact that they live together. They are coworkers. They are related.

I think the objection that many of us have to the current movement is the notion that the special status of marriage and we believe it's a special institution will be conferred upon other couples of the same sex thereby making marriage a less special institution, that its uniqueness will be destroyed, that marriage is in a difficult state right now and we need to strengthen it and not weaken it.

We need to make its whole and its center stronger not to redefine it. Commitment and loyalty and those things are fine. Freedom is fine but some of us just want to pull up short at blessing what we see as something that is not exemplary that is not a good example to our children or to the next generation.

BROWN: I want to talk about political things but just I want you to finish your thought.

BENNETT: Sure.

BROWN: Why would a marriage of a gay couple undermine marriage of straight couples?

BENNETT: Well, because it wouldn't be a marriage. A marriage is, I believe, definitionally between a man and a woman so it would be something else. It would be counterfeit marriage. The question is often asked, Barney Frank often says how does it hurt you, Mr. Bennett, if I marry Joe Smith?

It hurts me in this sense. It devalues the currency. It devalues the significance and the meaning of the institution and it is our bedrock institution. That's what troubles me.

On the other hand, you know, I'm a grown up in the world. I understand that gay people sleep with each other. They have sexual relations with each other. I don't think that's good. I don't approve particularly. I think it's wrong. My church thinks it's wrong but it's not my business and I'm not going to break in the doors or suggest anybody else do and bother them.

But if you're asking me to bless it I'm going to withhold my vote. Now, we're about to engage I think with this decision, Aaron, on a great and important national debate and I just hope it will be settled in the way such debate should be settled by thoughtful discussion and the will of the people.

BROWN: Here, here to that. I hope thoughtful discussion is part of it.

BENNETT: OK.

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. And Joan Garry is with us. She's executive director of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance against Defamation. We're pleased that she's with us.

JOAN GARRY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GLAAD: Thank you.

BROWN: Let me try this question this way.

GARRY: Sure. BROWN: I'll make you a deal right now, assume I have the power. You don't get marriage. You get in every state in the country civil unions, do you take the deal?

GARRY: You know we think about civil union as most of the way home but let me just talk for a minute about the issue of a marriage license and that's because that's...

BROWN: I gather you're saying no?

GARRY: Well, here's the deal.

BROWN: OK.

GARRY: Is that I think that, you know, at the end of the day we, each of us, should be afforded the same rights and responsibilities in America. I think that's something we should all strive for as a country.

And what the Massachusetts Supreme Court did today was identify that it's unconstitutional to deny couple in the state of Massachusetts the same rights and protections that marriage affords us.

And one of the things that's interesting is I think that many straight couples think about marriage and they think about that day as about the religious significance and they don't think about, they take for granted the rights and protection, inheritance, hospital visitation, all of those things.

BROWN: I agree with all that. I think you're absolutely right. That is how people mostly think. But given what is a very strong reaction that many people have surrounding the word marriage, Mr. Bennett for one but many others, why not accept 99 percent of the way home here and call it a victory and move on to the next great fight whatever that is?

GARRY: You know I think a lot and listening to Mr. Bennett talk about this I think about the struggle someone like my mother has on this. My mother is 77 years old, goes to church every day, Irish Catholic lady. She struggles with the religious and moral issues around my sexual orientation. I don't feel good about that but she does.

You know put that over there. Then you look at the rights and protections. My partner and I have been together for 22 years. We have three kids. She understands that relationship and understands that there are rights and protections that come with a marriage license that we do not have that will afford our family the kind of protection so that if I am hospitalized my partner is there for me so that our kids have legal connections to us and that's rights versus the vow.

BROWN: OK. The deal I was making you, assuming I had such power which clearly I do not, is you get all of those rights and protections. You just don't get to say married. You get everything else. That's the only thing you don't get, why not?

GARRY: The difference between civil unions and a marriage license are federal benefits, inheritance, joint tax returns, COBRA, I mean there's a whole list. The list goes on and on and on and I think the fundamental reason is that if my straight next door neighbor is entitled and has those rights and protections I should have them too.

BROWN: Do you expect this to become a difficult political issue this time?

GARRY: You know I think, you know, I hope that over the next, over the coming months, you know we talk about a political issue that there are a great number of political issues that should be bounced around.

You know I listened to a lot of talking heads this afternoon concerned, on CNN, Concerned Women for American. I think of that organization and, you know, the battle they appear to be ready to wage on the marriage issue, I think there are a whole host of issues that women in America should be concerned about.

For people to come together in relationships, loving relationships, make commitments to one another and to have the rights and protections afforded to them that's associated with those relationship doesn't seem to be high on the list.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in.

GARRY: I enjoyed it.

BROWN: Something Mr. Bennett said at the end just to underscore if it's going to be, if there's going to be this debate I hope it is thoughtful and done right. It's a tough issue for lots of people as you know and this would be an interesting test for the country.

GARRY: It's an opportunity to educate people about the realities of our lives and that's what makes me optimistic.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in.

GARRY: Enjoyed it.

BROWN: You both handled yourselves great tonight. We appreciate that.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the president is in Britain facing lots of protests but also a British public that appears to support the war in Iraq more than ever and feels better about the United States than you might think.

We'll take a break first. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: President Bush is in London tonight, the guest of the queen at Buckingham Palace. "The Guardian," one of Britain's center- left newspapers, read this as a headline on its Web site tonight: "Bush Flies Into Fortress London." The sidebar had a different take: "Majority Backs Bush Visit." A cynic might say, yes, all the better to protest.

But a lot of what people think of the president, the United States, Great Britain's role in the war on Iraq depends much on who and how you ask the question. And people, protesters aside, seem willing to hear what the president has to say.

Here's our senior White House correspondent, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across the Atlantic to celebrate a unique friendship, but also to once again confront the perception he is too eager to go to war, too dismissive of what Europe thinks, and more.

PHIL GORDON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: His style, his swagger, his way of speaking frankly alienates a lot of European public opinion.

KING: The Buckingham Palace welcome for a formal state visit is meant to send a signal.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The depth of the special relationship between our two countries cannot be overstated. The United States has no greater friend.

KING: But protesters promise to turn out by the tens of thousands during the three-day visit. A "Daily Mirror" poll found, only 27 percent of Britain believe the partnership is good for their country. And Mr. Bush is often the subject of ridicule in British and other European media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time for your 3:00 briefing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What time is it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, it's mousy time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to start using the numbers now, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Terrorism and Iraq will be the president's overwhelming focus, strategy sessions with Prime Minister Blair, meeting relatives of British citizens killed in the September 11 terrorist attacks, and thanking British troops who fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Image-building is another priority, a forum with Mr. Blair on efforts to fight HIV/AIDS, a visit to Blair's home district in Northern England, and a major speech on the trans-Atlantic alliance. Britain's foreign secretary suggests Mr. Bush include a little history.

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: Gently to remind European audiences about the critical role that the United States of America played not once, but twice, in securing liberties and freedoms in Europe. We don't forget that.

KING: Mr. Blair isn't the only European prime minister facing political heat for standing with Mr. Bush on Iraq. Italy's Berlusconi faces similar pressure, as does Prime Minister Aznar of Spain.

(on camera): In a major speech here on Wednesday, the president will take issue with those who say he is too willing to go it alone, too willing to ignore key allies and major international institutions like the United Nations. But a senior official traveling with the president says Mr. Bush will also make the case that sometimes the use of military force is necessary and directly rebut those who say he was wrong to go to war in Iraq.

John King, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few more quick items now from around the world, starting with another day of pounding attacks on targets in central Iraq. Part of the aim, leveling the homes of suspected insurgents, this apparently a new strategy. Among the homes destroyed today, one belonging to Izzat Ibrahim, one of the fugitive Iraqi high commanders. No indication that anyone was home at the time.

A number of disturbing videos have begun popping up on radical Islamic Web sites today. They show several attacks on American forces as seen through the eyes of the attackers. Experts believe these tapes are being used to attract new recruits.

And in Rome today, funeral services for the Italians who were killed in last week's bombing in Nasiriyah. Hundreds of thousands of Romans lined the streets as the processions went by.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, a 30-year old mystery. What happened to Howard Dean's brother who disappeared during the Vietnam War? Word today that the mystery may finally be solved.

And later: Gerald Ford on a mystery that still baffles, the Kennedy assassination.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Lots more NEWSNIGHT ahead, morning papers, of course, and the end of a 30-year-old mystery, it seems, involving presidential hopeful Howard Dean's brother.

We'll take a break first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: We'll admit up front that we wouldn't be doing this next story if it were about just any MIA from the Vietnam era. With nearly 2,000 of them, it's practically impossible to give each one their due, even when their cases are resolved. But the story is an interesting intersection between the Vietnam era and this one. The missing, a young idealistic college graduate who perhaps blundered into the war zone. And the family left behind includes a man now running for the White House.

Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When proof is found of a truth you've known for 30 years, the hurt can rip through the decades.

HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not just going to be painful for us. This is painful for the families of every POW/MIA in America.

CROWLEY: For 1,875 American families, Southeast Asia is the land that won't let go. Until this day, the Dean family has been one of them.

LT. COL. JERRY O'HARA, JOINT POW/MIA ACCOUNTING COMMAND: Well, we've been deployed in Laos working operations on this specific case since the 23rd of October. And we've been working a recovery operation in a farmer's rice paddy, where we were able to find remains associated with this case.

CROWLEY: A recovery team working in central Laos has found what they believe to be the remains of Charlie Dean, one of four Dean siblings, 16 months younger than Howard.

DEAN: It's very, very rare to recover the kinds of remains that we have recovered, which are fairly complete and fairly significant and are very, very likely to end up being positively identified via dental records.

CROWLEY: A graduate of UNC Chapel Hill, Charlie Dean and an Australian friend were traveling the world, Japan, Australia and Laos. It was 1974. The U.S. war in Vietnam bled through the entire region.

DEAN: They were arrested, held for three months, and then were executed, probably by the North Vietnamese, although we can't be sure.

CROWLEY: A touring civilian, Dean got caught up in the Vietnam War. The Pentagon listed him as MIA. There will be lab tests to confirm that the remains are really those of Charlie Dean, who, for 30 years, has been both missing and always there. June 23rd of this year, Howard Dean officially announced his candidacy.

DEAN: I thank Judy, my children, my family for their unconditional love and support, my father and my brother Charlie for their inspiration and eternal presence in my life. CROWLEY: Asked once what his brother would think of his presidential campaign, Howard Dean said: "He'd be the one running. I'd be the campaign manager."

Candy Crowley, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few more stories now from around the country.

The NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board, today said that pilot error was to blame for the plane crash last year that killed Paul Wellstone, the senator from Minnesota. According to the report, the prop jet was going too slowly when he it turned onto the final approach and the crew apparently failed to notice that fact. The plane lost lift and crashed, killing the senator, his wife and daughter, three campaign workers, everybody on board.

Chilling words for the jury in the sniper trial of Lee Malvo. Today, prosecutors played an audiotape in which Malvo told police he was the triggerman in every one of the shootings that terrorized the Washington area last year. "I intended to kill them all," Malvo is heard to stay.

And a judge in New York today refused to dismiss the two most serious charges against Martha Stewart, obstruction of justice and securities fraud. Her lawyers argued, the stock fraud charge, which accuses her of maintaining her innocence to keep the stock from collapsing, in effect is a violation of her right to free speech. The judge today said that's what the jury will decide.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the Kennedy assassination as seen through the eyes of former President Gerald Ford, the last surviving member of the Warren Commission.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When we went to California a few weeks back to talk with Former President Gerald Ford, it was to talk about the Kennedy assassination. He is the last surviving member of the Warren Commission. And, mostly, that's what we talked about. But conversation rarely goes in a straight line. And other matters have a way of coming up. And they did with Mr. Ford.

He is 90 now. His body is a bit more frail. His mind is still sharp, his voice strong, and also obvious decency well intact. Mr. Ford worked with John Kennedy in Congress, knew him. And that and the two attempts on his own life were part of the conversation we had.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GERALD FORD, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I couldn't believe it. Betty and I had gone into Washington to meet with a counselor for one of our children who was having some academic troubles. And we came out of the meeting and I turned the radio on. And that's where I first heard about it.

BROWN: Do you remember what you thought?

FORD: I couldn't believe it. I had lost a very good personal friend. And, secondly, to have the president of the United States assassinated, I couldn't believe it.

BROWN: Did you think at the time, is this some -- did the Soviets do this? I mean, did the possibilities run through your mind?

FORD: Oh, I thought of any extreme possibility. I didn't want to believe them. But you couldn't help but let your mind wander. And because of the personal relationship, it really hit me very hard.

BROWN: Will you just say something about, talk for a minute about your personal relationship with President Kennedy, the kind of man he was, the kind of politician he was? You were obviously of different parties, but you were also friends.

FORD: Longtime friends and good friends on a personal basis. And even though I differed with a lot of his domestic decisions and policies, on foreign policy, we were on the same wavelength.

BROWN: Was he as charismatic as I remember him?

FORD: Oh, yes. I admired his charisma.

You take the three Kennedy boys, Teddy, Jack and Bobby. Bobby was the smartest, but not the nicest. Jack had the nicest personality and the broadest view. And Teddy just is in between somehow.

BROWN: It's unimaginable today that the president of the United States would drive in an open car anywhere. But those were the times. Presidents rode in open motorcades.

FORD: Isn't it paradoxical that I was a good friend of Jack Kennedy, I was on the Warren Commission, and when I became president, I had two assassination attempts on my life?

BROWN: Yes, you did.

FORD: I had the Manson gal.

BROWN: Squeaky Fromme.

FORD: Squeaky Fromme, who tried to assassinate me in San Francisco.

BROWN: Right. And Sara Jane Moore?

FORD: Sara Jane Moore, who tried to assassinate me also, all in the month of September of 1974.

BROWN: Those things almost seemed like they happened in consecutive weeks.

FORD: They did.

BROWN: When you were the president, were you sort of, in your mind, somewhere sort of worried about your personal security? Was Mrs. Ford worried? Were your kids worried for you?

FORD: Well, Betty was worried after the first assassination attempt. She always said, when she waved to me as I took off from the White House lawn, she was apprehensive with the atmosphere with these two ladies who had tried to assassinate me. I don't think our children were, but Betty was very concerned.

BROWN: I think -- you know, sir, I think many people probably forgot about Squeaky Fromme and Sara Jane Moore.

FORD: I have vivid recollections.

BROWN: I'll say. I'll bet you're not one of them.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: What is it about, do you think, these sorts of things, the assassination of a president, that lends itself to people not wanting, in some respects, to believe an answer?

FORD: The public, for some reason or another, has a special fascination with assassinations, especially ones involving a president. And it'll be in perpetuity, in my opinion, over the Kennedy assassination.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We'll continue our look at the Kennedy assassination tomorrow, Jeff Greenfield's look at how it ended an age of optimism in the country. On Thursday, we devote a good deal of our program to the topic, an extended look at the story, what we know, what we still don't know about the assassination. You'll hear from President Ford on the Warren Commission's work. We'll also hear from the man who brought the story to much of the country, Walter Cronkite, for an extended controversy.

And Friday, an interview with the late president's brother, Senator Ted Kennedy, leading up to the 40th anniversary of the assassination of the president on the 22nd on Saturday.

Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Alrighty, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world, though, honestly, we rarely get to around the world, don't we? Ah -- well, you'll see. You'll see. I don't need to go, ah anything. You'll actually see.

"The Boston Herald" leads on gay marriage. They do. "Bay State Top Court Says Gays Have Right To Marry." That's a pretty good headline. They also put Michael Jackson on the front page. That is, to me -- I'm not sure I think that's a front-page story. But I like this newspaper, so they're cool with me.

"The Philadelphia Inquirer" puts gay marriages on the front page also, but this is a terrific story in a very good newspaper. "High Debt Poses a Test For University's Future." This is looking at Penn, an Ivy League school that has got some serious money problems, according to the work of James M. O'Neill, the "Inquirer" staff writer who reported this story for "The Philadelphia Inquirer."

"The Washington Times." "Massachusetts OKs Gay Marriage." They put the president on the front page, too, here. "Bush Vows to Defend Sanctity of Marriage." John Malvo makes the front page, too -- Lee Malvo. Whatever his name is, is fine with me. "I Intended to Kill Them All." But here's the picture that got to me. Can you get a good shot of this? OK, it's the president and Prince Charles. Look, I got no issue with Prince Charles. But isn't he the oldest looking 55- year-old guy you ever saw in your life? I mean, really. I'm 55. I look a lot -- take the picture again. Don't I look younger than the prince? And he's had a royal life.

They're not inviting me to the dinner, are they?

"The Richmond Times-Dispatch." Thank you. I love this picture. It's not easy to look at. And I think they just put it on the front page because they loved it, too, to be honest. "Aftermath of Terrorism," the Jewish man who survived one of the suicide bombings in Turkey. It's just a very powerful picture. And, in Richmond, Virginia, they would put, understandably, correctly, the Malvo tape. "Malvo Tape Says He Was Sole Shooter."

How we doing on time, Terry (ph)? Thank you.

"The Dallas Morning News" puts a JFK story on the front page. "New Life For Assassination History." And a picture of Mr. Cronkite there on November 22. That's "The Dallas Morning News."

I wonder -- we ought to see how TV is covering down there. I'm stalling.

"Chicago Sun-Times," weather tomorrow in Chicago, "sun-dried." That's pretty good. I like that. "Desk Cops Back On City Streets. Superintendent Says He'll Be One of 1,000 Officers on the Beat to Fight the Drug War." Yes. No. I mean, yes, I'm sure he will.

We'll update our top story after the break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we go, update of our top story.

The Massachusetts Supreme Court overturned a law banning gay marriage in the state, but stopped short of allowing those who challenged the law to in fact obtain marriage licenses. Instead, the court ordered the state legislature to reconsider the question. And about a nanosecond later, the national debate over gay rights, marriage, morality and politics erupted all over again. No doubt more of this to come.

Coming up on the program tomorrow night, a moment in time that came to an end with the assassination of President Kennedy. It was a time when most Americans said they were happy, optimistic. Jeff Greenfield revisits all that was right and all that would go wrong in the years to follow.

I got a note from a friend today who said that, since November 22, '63, nothing has seemed quite right to him.

We'll see you all tomorrow. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.

Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Orders Peterson to Stand Trial; Police Raid Neverland Ranch>


Aired November 18, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
There is a be careful what you wish for quality to our lead story tonight, the Massachusetts Supreme Court decision that all but legalized gay marriage in that state.

Could it turn out that that decision creates a political rallying cry for those who oppose such things, and there are many, that it becomes the wedge issue of the campaign ahead that this day becomes the perfect example of the law of unintended consequences?

It is part of a complicated and emotional story that leads the program and begins the whip. CNN's Dan Lothian starts us off from Boston, Dan a headline from you tonight.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF: Well, Aaron, it was a landmark decision here in the state of Massachusetts, the state becoming the first in the nation to essentially legalize same-sex marriages but, of course, that won't take place for about 180 days. We'll explain why in just a few minutes. As you can imagine this is controversial. Those who were pushing for it are elated. Those who are against it are angry -- Aaron.

BROWN: Dan, thank you, good to see you tonight.

Next to a pair of stories that are relatively new to the program, first the murder of Laci Peterson and now the murder trial of her husband Scott. CNN's David Mattingly has been covering the hearing in Modesto, David a headline.

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a preliminary hearing fails to produce a smoking gun but more than enough for a judge to decide its time for Scott Peterson to stand trial for the murders of his wife Laci and their unborn child -- Aaron.

BROWN: David, thank you.

And finally, strange and strangely familiar developments regarding the singer Michael Jackson, a lot of secrecy as usual but enough there to raise an eyebrow, CNN's Frank Buckley is near Santa Barbara, California, Frank a headline.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, on the same day that Michael Jackson's newest CD came out investigators descended on his Neverland Ranch here. A source with knowledge of the investigation telling CNN they are looking into allegations of child molestation.

BROWN: Frank, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also tonight, President Bush's trip to Britain what he hopes to accomplish there, how he will be received.

Later the missing brother of Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean a 30-year-old mystery that may finally have been solved.

As we continue our series on the assassination of President Kennedy, the 40th anniversary this week, we'll talk with former President Gerald Ford. Mr. Ford is the last surviving member of the Warren Commission which investigated JFK's death.

And we'll end, as always, with a check of tomorrow morning's papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with a passage from the decision handed down today by the Massachusetts Supreme Court. Margaret Marshall, the Chief Justice, writing for a narrow majority on the subject of marriage.

"Marriage" she writes "is a vital social institution. The exclusive commitment of two individuals to each other nurtures love and support. It brings stability to our society," a plainspoken defense of marriage as you could ever hope to see. Unless, or you happen to see it precisely the opposite way as an assault, the latest of several on marriage and society.

We have two reports tonight, a serious discussion as well. We begin with CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice-over): Linda Davies and Gloria Bailey have been partners for 32 years but it took a Massachusetts high court ruling for one of them to finally pop the question.

LINDA DAVIES, PLAINTIFF: I finally asked her to marry me because she told me she couldn't answer until we could legally do it and I'm happy to tell the world she said yes.

LOTHIAN: Their opponents are not celebrating, instead calling the ruling demoralizing.

PHIL TRAVIS (D), MASSACHUSETTS STATE REP.: I think it flies in the face of what we know in Massachusetts as marriage and have demonstrated since our founding.

LOTHIAN: This case began winding its way through the courts in 2001 when seven Massachusetts same-sex couples were denied marriage licenses from their city or town halls. GLAD, the gay and lesbian organization, filed a lawsuit which ended up in the state Supreme Court and resulted in a 4-3 landmark decision. MARY BONAUTO, PLAINTIFF'S LAWYER: Finally all families in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts will have the opportunity to be equal families under the law.

LOTHIAN: The court concluded that: "Barring an individual from the protections, benefits and obligations of civil marriage solely because that person would marry a person of the same sex, violates the Massachusetts constitution."

No wedding bells yet. The court has given the legislature 180 days to "take whatever actions it may deem necessary." What that means, say legal experts, is unclear.

PAUL MARTINEK, EDITOR, "LAWYERS WEEKLY": The court has clearly put the ball in the court of the legislature. It's up to them to decide what to do while the court hasn't clearly said what the legislature can do.

LOTHIAN: In Vermont, the legislature was given a choice by the court, marriage or civil unions. Lawmakers chose civil unions. In Hawaii and Alaska, high courts also ruled in favor of same-sex marriages but in both cases the legislatures amended their constitutions to ban them.

In Massachusetts, same-sex couples are confident there are no options to derail their dreams and equally confident opponents promising a fight.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The court I believe has overstepped its bounds.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN: What lawmakers here are looking at is that constitutional amendment which would essentially lay out marriage as in between a man and a woman but that couldn't get before the voters before 2006, so barring anything that legal experts don't see at this point gay couples could get married in 180 days -- Aaron.

BROWN: Is there any talk of a middle road here, a compromise that says no to marriage but yes to civil unions in the way that Vermont did?

LOTHIAN: Well that is something that state lawmakers have been discussing for quite some time but at this point it seems like it is too late for that to happen. The court has ruled and lawmakers are saying they have few options at this point.

All they have is that constitutional amendment. As I mentioned, they don't see anything happening with that until 2006. By then many couples could be married for several years.

BROWN: Dan, thank you, Dan Lothian our Boston Bureau Chief tonight.

Years ago the woman's movement had a slogan "the personal is political" is how it went. Over the years any number of causes have picked up on the notion from all sides of the political spectrum.

It's gotten to the point that when it comes to everything from the bedroom to the death bed it would be hard to say that anything isn't political anymore and that's doubly so in an election year.

That side of the story from CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. POLITICAL ANALYST (voice-over): You'd expect that gay rights groups would be celebrating the ruling of the Massachusetts Supreme Court but there's another place where they might well have been swapping high-fives, the West Wing of the White House, why?

Because the ruling puts the whole gay marriage question squarely into the political arena and that's just about the last thing Democratic presidential contenders want.

(on camera): Now, to understand the Democrats' dilemma you have to go back to last June to a U.S. Supreme Court decision on sodomy and to the political fallout that case triggered.

(voice-over): Back in June, the high court in a 6-3 decision said there were no valid grounds on which a state could punish private sex acts among consenting adults, gay or straight.

In a blistering dissent, Justice Antonin Scalia said this decision called into question just about every law protecting what he called order and morality, including laws banning adult incest, prostitution, and same-sex marriages.

Apparently, concerns about gay marriage triggered a sharp change in public opinion on gay rights in general. In a CNN-USA Today Gallup poll back in May, 60 percent had said that homosexual relations between consenting adults should be legal. By July, that number dropped to 48 percent and last month voters said by a 26 point margin that they oppose gay marriage.

As for the major Democratic presidential contenders, all of them favor some sort of civil union and all oppose gay marriage and now the Massachusetts Supreme Court has raised that specter again.

Yes, this latest decision involves an interpretation of the state constitution but the United States Constitution has a full faith and credit clause. It requires one state to honor the holdings of another. That's why your California marriage, for instance, is valid everywhere else.

Now it was just this fear that some state might legalize gay marriage that led the Congress to pass and President Clinton to sign the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996. It says, among other things, that marriage means one man, one woman.

But here's the catch. What if the U.S. court's sodomy decision means there are no valid grounds for a state to refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage? In that case, the Defense of Marriage Act is out and a gay marriage in one state would have to be recognized in every state.

President Bush has already said where he stands on this matter.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I believe a marriage is between a man and a woman and I think we ought to codify that one way or the other.

GREENFIELD: That view by the way is somewhat different than the one Vice President Cheney, one of whose children is openly gay, offered during the 2000 vice presidential debate.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think different states are likely to come to different conclusions and that's appropriate. I don't think there should necessarily be a federal policy in this area.

GREENFIELD (on camera): It's possible, of course, that Massachusetts will act to remove this issue from the political arena by amending its own state constitution and defining marriage as one man, one woman. That's what Hawaii did.

But that will take time and meanwhile this whole gay marriage question will be squarely inside the political arena exactly the kind of hot button issue that has vexed the Democrats for so long.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We'll have more on this in our next segment, a debate, a discussion really. Joining us conservative writer Bill Bennett and gay rights activist Joan Garry that's in the next section tonight.

To other things now, to no one's surprise a California Court has ordered Scott Peterson to stand trial for the murder of his wife Laci and their unborn child. The threshold for a decision like this is not very high.

The state doesn't have to prove very much but the hearing went on for days and days and gave us a glimpse of how each side will play what is truly a life or death game when the trial actually begins the report tonight from CNN's David Mattingly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY (voice-over): After weeks of arguments and evidence, a judge wasted no time at the end of this preliminary hearing immediately ordering Scott Peterson to stay in jail awaiting trial for the murders of his wife Laci and their unborn child.

LEE PETERSON, DEFENDANT'S FATHER: We're not surprised but the trial is going to be something again.

MATTINGLY: Peterson's parents exited the courthouse after listening to detectives describe how Scott was arrested in April in a car loaded with clothes, camping equipment and nearly $15,000 cash, how Scott and his girlfriend Amber Frey exchanged 241 phone calls in 93 days, more than 50 of them in the week after Laci was reported missing and how Scott came to Amber crying two weeks before Laci's disappearance and told her he had lost his wife.

In one call taped by police two weeks after Laci disappeared court transcripts shown to reporters show an angry Frey demanding answers. "How did you lose her then before she was lost? Explain that" she said. Peterson replied "there's different kinds of loss, Amber."

Frey had already come forward to police at the time of this call. It was apparently the first time Peterson attempted to explain his marriage and Laci's disappearance another piece in the prosecution's puzzle but in a case that has yet to produce a smoking gun.

MARK GERAGOS, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: We're gratified at least that we're this much closer to trial and hopefully at trial vindication for Scott.

MATTINGLY: Defense attorney Mark Geragos will attempt to overturn the judge's decision, arguing there was not enough evidence presented to send Peterson to trial.

There's also the issue of where to have the trial. The defense may argue that notoriety of the case may make it impossible for Scott Peterson to get a fair trial anywhere near Modesto, a concern shared by prosecutors.

JOHN GOOLD, DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: If we can have this trial held here we want the trial held here. We do not want the trial held though if it's not going to be properly done, if the jury pool is so biased that the defendant can't get a fair trial because that doesn't work for anybody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MATTINGLY: Wherever an impartial is eventually found for this case the question remains what do prosecutors have to show the jury that cinches the case against Scott Peterson?

After 11 days of testimony we have before us what is essentially a circumstantial case, a lot of strange behavior by Scott Peterson, one hair found in his boat that may or may not belong to Laci Peterson and one girlfriend -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, let me just turn that around on you for a second, not so much what the prosecution has to show because there's a lot of strong feelings out there. What does the -- where does the defense case seem to lie? Where is the strength of the defense case?

MATTINGLY: Leading up to this preliminary hearing there was a lot of discussion from sources inside the defense at times about theories, about that Laci was abducted by a satanic cult and murdered in some kind of ritual. They hinted around at possibly looking at the fact that the baby was born before -- the baby was born alive and other elements that might play into that theory but, again, that theory did not come up in this preliminary hearing. That is something that the defense might try to use to get some sort of reasonable doubt on the part of the jury when this does go to trial.

BROWN: David, thank you very much, David Mattingly in Modesto.

Tonight seems to be the night for such things. From Modesto, we move south in California to Neverland, from Scott Peterson to Michael Jackson. Police today descended on his mansion.

People started asking the same old uncomfortable questions about the singer's relationship with young children, reporting for us tonight CNN's Frank Buckley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY (voice-over): More than 60 investigators from the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Department and District Attorney's Office descended on Michael Jackson's Neverland Ranch to execute a search warrant, a source with knowledge of the investigation telling CNN they are looking into allegations of child molestation.

Entertainer Michael Jackson was not home and he hasn't been at the Neverland Ranch for two and a half weeks according to his spokesman who said in a statement: "We cannot comment on law enforcement's investigation because we do not yet know what it is about." A Jackson employee who was at the home when the search warrant was executed says he has never witnessed any improper behavior.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've been working here for too long, 14 years and I never see anything wrong, anything strange, so he loves the kids, all the kids.

BUCKLEY: In 1994, Jackson reached an undisclosed financial settlement with a 14-year-old boy who said he had stayed at Neverland Ranch and alleged sexual molestation. Jackson maintained his innocence and was never charged with a crime.

Earlier this year, though, he raised eyebrows when he told British journalist Martin Bashir that he sometimes shares his bed with children at the Neverland Ranch but Jackson told Bashir: "It's not sexual -- we're going to sleep. I tuck them in."

BRYAN MICHAEL STOLLER, JACKSON FRIEND: If he says that they shared a bed then he meant that he shared a bed like a father and a son would share a bed. I think if there was anything that was sexual he wouldn't have even brought that up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And, Aaron, tonight there are still investigators here at the Neverland Ranch, some 11 hours after they arrived to begin executing this search warrant. It isn't clear what, if anything, they've removed. We're hoping to get some answers tomorrow during a news conference with the Santa Barbara County Sheriff and the district attorney -- Aaron.

BROWN: Just quickly all the documents here sealed?

BUCKLEY: That's right. With the search warrant it's going to be at least ten days before we know exactly what the contents of the search warrant are and they could remain sealed even beyond that.

BROWN: Frank, thank you, Frank Buckley out west tonight.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll hear from both sides on the gay marriage issue.

Later, with President Bush now in Britain we'll look at what he hopes to accomplish during a state visit there.

And as the 40th anniversary of the Kennedy assassination approaches we talk with former President Gerald Ford, the last surviving member of the Warren Commission.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We want to return now to the intersection of marriage and equality and morality and all the rest that somehow make up who we are as a society you know the simple things. That shouldn't take more than six minutes or so to sort that all out should it?

Two points of view tonight, two sides of the question, certainly not the only two. First, Bill Bennett, former cabinet member, moralist, author of many books on many subjects. He joins us in Washington tonight. It's always good to see him. Mr. Bennett, welcome again.

BILL BENNETT: Thank you.

BROWN: Do this for me if you will. Set aside the "M" word the word marriage for a minute.

BENNETT: OK.

BROWN: And tell me what, if anything, is so terrible about a legal state that encourages commitment between two people of the same sex but commitment and grants them certain property rights that married people have. Why is that so terrible if it is?

BENNETT: I'm not sure it is terrible, although I would grant people rights not based on their sexual relationship. I'd be prepared for states to grant people rights because of the fact that they live together. They are coworkers. They are related.

I think the objection that many of us have to the current movement is the notion that the special status of marriage and we believe it's a special institution will be conferred upon other couples of the same sex thereby making marriage a less special institution, that its uniqueness will be destroyed, that marriage is in a difficult state right now and we need to strengthen it and not weaken it.

We need to make its whole and its center stronger not to redefine it. Commitment and loyalty and those things are fine. Freedom is fine but some of us just want to pull up short at blessing what we see as something that is not exemplary that is not a good example to our children or to the next generation.

BROWN: I want to talk about political things but just I want you to finish your thought.

BENNETT: Sure.

BROWN: Why would a marriage of a gay couple undermine marriage of straight couples?

BENNETT: Well, because it wouldn't be a marriage. A marriage is, I believe, definitionally between a man and a woman so it would be something else. It would be counterfeit marriage. The question is often asked, Barney Frank often says how does it hurt you, Mr. Bennett, if I marry Joe Smith?

It hurts me in this sense. It devalues the currency. It devalues the significance and the meaning of the institution and it is our bedrock institution. That's what troubles me.

On the other hand, you know, I'm a grown up in the world. I understand that gay people sleep with each other. They have sexual relations with each other. I don't think that's good. I don't approve particularly. I think it's wrong. My church thinks it's wrong but it's not my business and I'm not going to break in the doors or suggest anybody else do and bother them.

But if you're asking me to bless it I'm going to withhold my vote. Now, we're about to engage I think with this decision, Aaron, on a great and important national debate and I just hope it will be settled in the way such debate should be settled by thoughtful discussion and the will of the people.

BROWN: Here, here to that. I hope thoughtful discussion is part of it.

BENNETT: OK.

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. And Joan Garry is with us. She's executive director of the Gay and Lesbian Alliance against Defamation. We're pleased that she's with us.

JOAN GARRY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, GLAAD: Thank you.

BROWN: Let me try this question this way.

GARRY: Sure. BROWN: I'll make you a deal right now, assume I have the power. You don't get marriage. You get in every state in the country civil unions, do you take the deal?

GARRY: You know we think about civil union as most of the way home but let me just talk for a minute about the issue of a marriage license and that's because that's...

BROWN: I gather you're saying no?

GARRY: Well, here's the deal.

BROWN: OK.

GARRY: Is that I think that, you know, at the end of the day we, each of us, should be afforded the same rights and responsibilities in America. I think that's something we should all strive for as a country.

And what the Massachusetts Supreme Court did today was identify that it's unconstitutional to deny couple in the state of Massachusetts the same rights and protections that marriage affords us.

And one of the things that's interesting is I think that many straight couples think about marriage and they think about that day as about the religious significance and they don't think about, they take for granted the rights and protection, inheritance, hospital visitation, all of those things.

BROWN: I agree with all that. I think you're absolutely right. That is how people mostly think. But given what is a very strong reaction that many people have surrounding the word marriage, Mr. Bennett for one but many others, why not accept 99 percent of the way home here and call it a victory and move on to the next great fight whatever that is?

GARRY: You know I think a lot and listening to Mr. Bennett talk about this I think about the struggle someone like my mother has on this. My mother is 77 years old, goes to church every day, Irish Catholic lady. She struggles with the religious and moral issues around my sexual orientation. I don't feel good about that but she does.

You know put that over there. Then you look at the rights and protections. My partner and I have been together for 22 years. We have three kids. She understands that relationship and understands that there are rights and protections that come with a marriage license that we do not have that will afford our family the kind of protection so that if I am hospitalized my partner is there for me so that our kids have legal connections to us and that's rights versus the vow.

BROWN: OK. The deal I was making you, assuming I had such power which clearly I do not, is you get all of those rights and protections. You just don't get to say married. You get everything else. That's the only thing you don't get, why not?

GARRY: The difference between civil unions and a marriage license are federal benefits, inheritance, joint tax returns, COBRA, I mean there's a whole list. The list goes on and on and on and I think the fundamental reason is that if my straight next door neighbor is entitled and has those rights and protections I should have them too.

BROWN: Do you expect this to become a difficult political issue this time?

GARRY: You know I think, you know, I hope that over the next, over the coming months, you know we talk about a political issue that there are a great number of political issues that should be bounced around.

You know I listened to a lot of talking heads this afternoon concerned, on CNN, Concerned Women for American. I think of that organization and, you know, the battle they appear to be ready to wage on the marriage issue, I think there are a whole host of issues that women in America should be concerned about.

For people to come together in relationships, loving relationships, make commitments to one another and to have the rights and protections afforded to them that's associated with those relationship doesn't seem to be high on the list.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in.

GARRY: I enjoyed it.

BROWN: Something Mr. Bennett said at the end just to underscore if it's going to be, if there's going to be this debate I hope it is thoughtful and done right. It's a tough issue for lots of people as you know and this would be an interesting test for the country.

GARRY: It's an opportunity to educate people about the realities of our lives and that's what makes me optimistic.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in.

GARRY: Enjoyed it.

BROWN: You both handled yourselves great tonight. We appreciate that.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, the president is in Britain facing lots of protests but also a British public that appears to support the war in Iraq more than ever and feels better about the United States than you might think.

We'll take a break first. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: President Bush is in London tonight, the guest of the queen at Buckingham Palace. "The Guardian," one of Britain's center- left newspapers, read this as a headline on its Web site tonight: "Bush Flies Into Fortress London." The sidebar had a different take: "Majority Backs Bush Visit." A cynic might say, yes, all the better to protest.

But a lot of what people think of the president, the United States, Great Britain's role in the war on Iraq depends much on who and how you ask the question. And people, protesters aside, seem willing to hear what the president has to say.

Here's our senior White House correspondent, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Across the Atlantic to celebrate a unique friendship, but also to once again confront the perception he is too eager to go to war, too dismissive of what Europe thinks, and more.

PHIL GORDON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: His style, his swagger, his way of speaking frankly alienates a lot of European public opinion.

KING: The Buckingham Palace welcome for a formal state visit is meant to send a signal.

CONDOLEEZZA RICE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The depth of the special relationship between our two countries cannot be overstated. The United States has no greater friend.

KING: But protesters promise to turn out by the tens of thousands during the three-day visit. A "Daily Mirror" poll found, only 27 percent of Britain believe the partnership is good for their country. And Mr. Bush is often the subject of ridicule in British and other European media.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time for your 3:00 briefing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What time is it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, it's mousy time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to start using the numbers now, sir.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Terrorism and Iraq will be the president's overwhelming focus, strategy sessions with Prime Minister Blair, meeting relatives of British citizens killed in the September 11 terrorist attacks, and thanking British troops who fought in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Image-building is another priority, a forum with Mr. Blair on efforts to fight HIV/AIDS, a visit to Blair's home district in Northern England, and a major speech on the trans-Atlantic alliance. Britain's foreign secretary suggests Mr. Bush include a little history.

JACK STRAW, BRITISH FOREIGN SECRETARY: Gently to remind European audiences about the critical role that the United States of America played not once, but twice, in securing liberties and freedoms in Europe. We don't forget that.

KING: Mr. Blair isn't the only European prime minister facing political heat for standing with Mr. Bush on Iraq. Italy's Berlusconi faces similar pressure, as does Prime Minister Aznar of Spain.

(on camera): In a major speech here on Wednesday, the president will take issue with those who say he is too willing to go it alone, too willing to ignore key allies and major international institutions like the United Nations. But a senior official traveling with the president says Mr. Bush will also make the case that sometimes the use of military force is necessary and directly rebut those who say he was wrong to go to war in Iraq.

John King, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few more quick items now from around the world, starting with another day of pounding attacks on targets in central Iraq. Part of the aim, leveling the homes of suspected insurgents, this apparently a new strategy. Among the homes destroyed today, one belonging to Izzat Ibrahim, one of the fugitive Iraqi high commanders. No indication that anyone was home at the time.

A number of disturbing videos have begun popping up on radical Islamic Web sites today. They show several attacks on American forces as seen through the eyes of the attackers. Experts believe these tapes are being used to attract new recruits.

And in Rome today, funeral services for the Italians who were killed in last week's bombing in Nasiriyah. Hundreds of thousands of Romans lined the streets as the processions went by.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, a 30-year old mystery. What happened to Howard Dean's brother who disappeared during the Vietnam War? Word today that the mystery may finally be solved.

And later: Gerald Ford on a mystery that still baffles, the Kennedy assassination.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

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BROWN: Lots more NEWSNIGHT ahead, morning papers, of course, and the end of a 30-year-old mystery, it seems, involving presidential hopeful Howard Dean's brother.

We'll take a break first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: We'll admit up front that we wouldn't be doing this next story if it were about just any MIA from the Vietnam era. With nearly 2,000 of them, it's practically impossible to give each one their due, even when their cases are resolved. But the story is an interesting intersection between the Vietnam era and this one. The missing, a young idealistic college graduate who perhaps blundered into the war zone. And the family left behind includes a man now running for the White House.

Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When proof is found of a truth you've known for 30 years, the hurt can rip through the decades.

HOWARD DEAN (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not just going to be painful for us. This is painful for the families of every POW/MIA in America.

CROWLEY: For 1,875 American families, Southeast Asia is the land that won't let go. Until this day, the Dean family has been one of them.

LT. COL. JERRY O'HARA, JOINT POW/MIA ACCOUNTING COMMAND: Well, we've been deployed in Laos working operations on this specific case since the 23rd of October. And we've been working a recovery operation in a farmer's rice paddy, where we were able to find remains associated with this case.

CROWLEY: A recovery team working in central Laos has found what they believe to be the remains of Charlie Dean, one of four Dean siblings, 16 months younger than Howard.

DEAN: It's very, very rare to recover the kinds of remains that we have recovered, which are fairly complete and fairly significant and are very, very likely to end up being positively identified via dental records.

CROWLEY: A graduate of UNC Chapel Hill, Charlie Dean and an Australian friend were traveling the world, Japan, Australia and Laos. It was 1974. The U.S. war in Vietnam bled through the entire region.

DEAN: They were arrested, held for three months, and then were executed, probably by the North Vietnamese, although we can't be sure.

CROWLEY: A touring civilian, Dean got caught up in the Vietnam War. The Pentagon listed him as MIA. There will be lab tests to confirm that the remains are really those of Charlie Dean, who, for 30 years, has been both missing and always there. June 23rd of this year, Howard Dean officially announced his candidacy.

DEAN: I thank Judy, my children, my family for their unconditional love and support, my father and my brother Charlie for their inspiration and eternal presence in my life. CROWLEY: Asked once what his brother would think of his presidential campaign, Howard Dean said: "He'd be the one running. I'd be the campaign manager."

Candy Crowley, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: A few more stories now from around the country.

The NTSB, the National Transportation Safety Board, today said that pilot error was to blame for the plane crash last year that killed Paul Wellstone, the senator from Minnesota. According to the report, the prop jet was going too slowly when he it turned onto the final approach and the crew apparently failed to notice that fact. The plane lost lift and crashed, killing the senator, his wife and daughter, three campaign workers, everybody on board.

Chilling words for the jury in the sniper trial of Lee Malvo. Today, prosecutors played an audiotape in which Malvo told police he was the triggerman in every one of the shootings that terrorized the Washington area last year. "I intended to kill them all," Malvo is heard to stay.

And a judge in New York today refused to dismiss the two most serious charges against Martha Stewart, obstruction of justice and securities fraud. Her lawyers argued, the stock fraud charge, which accuses her of maintaining her innocence to keep the stock from collapsing, in effect is a violation of her right to free speech. The judge today said that's what the jury will decide.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT: the Kennedy assassination as seen through the eyes of former President Gerald Ford, the last surviving member of the Warren Commission.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: When we went to California a few weeks back to talk with Former President Gerald Ford, it was to talk about the Kennedy assassination. He is the last surviving member of the Warren Commission. And, mostly, that's what we talked about. But conversation rarely goes in a straight line. And other matters have a way of coming up. And they did with Mr. Ford.

He is 90 now. His body is a bit more frail. His mind is still sharp, his voice strong, and also obvious decency well intact. Mr. Ford worked with John Kennedy in Congress, knew him. And that and the two attempts on his own life were part of the conversation we had.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GERALD FORD, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I couldn't believe it. Betty and I had gone into Washington to meet with a counselor for one of our children who was having some academic troubles. And we came out of the meeting and I turned the radio on. And that's where I first heard about it.

BROWN: Do you remember what you thought?

FORD: I couldn't believe it. I had lost a very good personal friend. And, secondly, to have the president of the United States assassinated, I couldn't believe it.

BROWN: Did you think at the time, is this some -- did the Soviets do this? I mean, did the possibilities run through your mind?

FORD: Oh, I thought of any extreme possibility. I didn't want to believe them. But you couldn't help but let your mind wander. And because of the personal relationship, it really hit me very hard.

BROWN: Will you just say something about, talk for a minute about your personal relationship with President Kennedy, the kind of man he was, the kind of politician he was? You were obviously of different parties, but you were also friends.

FORD: Longtime friends and good friends on a personal basis. And even though I differed with a lot of his domestic decisions and policies, on foreign policy, we were on the same wavelength.

BROWN: Was he as charismatic as I remember him?

FORD: Oh, yes. I admired his charisma.

You take the three Kennedy boys, Teddy, Jack and Bobby. Bobby was the smartest, but not the nicest. Jack had the nicest personality and the broadest view. And Teddy just is in between somehow.

BROWN: It's unimaginable today that the president of the United States would drive in an open car anywhere. But those were the times. Presidents rode in open motorcades.

FORD: Isn't it paradoxical that I was a good friend of Jack Kennedy, I was on the Warren Commission, and when I became president, I had two assassination attempts on my life?

BROWN: Yes, you did.

FORD: I had the Manson gal.

BROWN: Squeaky Fromme.

FORD: Squeaky Fromme, who tried to assassinate me in San Francisco.

BROWN: Right. And Sara Jane Moore?

FORD: Sara Jane Moore, who tried to assassinate me also, all in the month of September of 1974.

BROWN: Those things almost seemed like they happened in consecutive weeks.

FORD: They did.

BROWN: When you were the president, were you sort of, in your mind, somewhere sort of worried about your personal security? Was Mrs. Ford worried? Were your kids worried for you?

FORD: Well, Betty was worried after the first assassination attempt. She always said, when she waved to me as I took off from the White House lawn, she was apprehensive with the atmosphere with these two ladies who had tried to assassinate me. I don't think our children were, but Betty was very concerned.

BROWN: I think -- you know, sir, I think many people probably forgot about Squeaky Fromme and Sara Jane Moore.

FORD: I have vivid recollections.

BROWN: I'll say. I'll bet you're not one of them.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: What is it about, do you think, these sorts of things, the assassination of a president, that lends itself to people not wanting, in some respects, to believe an answer?

FORD: The public, for some reason or another, has a special fascination with assassinations, especially ones involving a president. And it'll be in perpetuity, in my opinion, over the Kennedy assassination.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We'll continue our look at the Kennedy assassination tomorrow, Jeff Greenfield's look at how it ended an age of optimism in the country. On Thursday, we devote a good deal of our program to the topic, an extended look at the story, what we know, what we still don't know about the assassination. You'll hear from President Ford on the Warren Commission's work. We'll also hear from the man who brought the story to much of the country, Walter Cronkite, for an extended controversy.

And Friday, an interview with the late president's brother, Senator Ted Kennedy, leading up to the 40th anniversary of the assassination of the president on the 22nd on Saturday.

Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Alrighty, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world, though, honestly, we rarely get to around the world, don't we? Ah -- well, you'll see. You'll see. I don't need to go, ah anything. You'll actually see.

"The Boston Herald" leads on gay marriage. They do. "Bay State Top Court Says Gays Have Right To Marry." That's a pretty good headline. They also put Michael Jackson on the front page. That is, to me -- I'm not sure I think that's a front-page story. But I like this newspaper, so they're cool with me.

"The Philadelphia Inquirer" puts gay marriages on the front page also, but this is a terrific story in a very good newspaper. "High Debt Poses a Test For University's Future." This is looking at Penn, an Ivy League school that has got some serious money problems, according to the work of James M. O'Neill, the "Inquirer" staff writer who reported this story for "The Philadelphia Inquirer."

"The Washington Times." "Massachusetts OKs Gay Marriage." They put the president on the front page, too, here. "Bush Vows to Defend Sanctity of Marriage." John Malvo makes the front page, too -- Lee Malvo. Whatever his name is, is fine with me. "I Intended to Kill Them All." But here's the picture that got to me. Can you get a good shot of this? OK, it's the president and Prince Charles. Look, I got no issue with Prince Charles. But isn't he the oldest looking 55- year-old guy you ever saw in your life? I mean, really. I'm 55. I look a lot -- take the picture again. Don't I look younger than the prince? And he's had a royal life.

They're not inviting me to the dinner, are they?

"The Richmond Times-Dispatch." Thank you. I love this picture. It's not easy to look at. And I think they just put it on the front page because they loved it, too, to be honest. "Aftermath of Terrorism," the Jewish man who survived one of the suicide bombings in Turkey. It's just a very powerful picture. And, in Richmond, Virginia, they would put, understandably, correctly, the Malvo tape. "Malvo Tape Says He Was Sole Shooter."

How we doing on time, Terry (ph)? Thank you.

"The Dallas Morning News" puts a JFK story on the front page. "New Life For Assassination History." And a picture of Mr. Cronkite there on November 22. That's "The Dallas Morning News."

I wonder -- we ought to see how TV is covering down there. I'm stalling.

"Chicago Sun-Times," weather tomorrow in Chicago, "sun-dried." That's pretty good. I like that. "Desk Cops Back On City Streets. Superintendent Says He'll Be One of 1,000 Officers on the Beat to Fight the Drug War." Yes. No. I mean, yes, I'm sure he will.

We'll update our top story after the break. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we go, update of our top story.

The Massachusetts Supreme Court overturned a law banning gay marriage in the state, but stopped short of allowing those who challenged the law to in fact obtain marriage licenses. Instead, the court ordered the state legislature to reconsider the question. And about a nanosecond later, the national debate over gay rights, marriage, morality and politics erupted all over again. No doubt more of this to come.

Coming up on the program tomorrow night, a moment in time that came to an end with the assassination of President Kennedy. It was a time when most Americans said they were happy, optimistic. Jeff Greenfield revisits all that was right and all that would go wrong in the years to follow.

I got a note from a friend today who said that, since November 22, '63, nothing has seemed quite right to him.

We'll see you all tomorrow. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next.

Good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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