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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Arrest Warrant Issued for Michael Jackson; Bush Faces Protesters in U.K.

Aired November 19, 2003 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSNIGHT: Good evening, again, everyone. There are important stories and irresistible ones and you can be absolutely certain this is one of them.
Michael Jackson, for better or worse, guilty or innocence, has been part of the landscape in one way or another for nearly 40 years. He's been famous almost his entire life, infamous for some of it. Front page news either way. So irresistible, yes.

But important? We remember the day Elvis died and the "CBS Evening News" led with the signing of the Panama Canal Treaty instead. We won't make that mistake tonight. Michael Jackson leads the program and "The Whip."

The Whip begins in Santa Barbara , California, not far from Mr. Jackson's Neverland Ranch. CNN's Frank Buckley has been there all day.

Frank, start us with the headline.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, authorities here today confirmed that Michael Jackson is wanted on an arrest warrant that alleges multiple counts of child molestation. Jackson has agreed to turn himself in. He is also vowing to fight the charges to prove his innocence.

Aaron.

BROWN: Frank, thank you. Next to New York and an investigation of Rush Limbaugh and his dealings with the bank. CNN's Deborah Feyerick with that.

Deb, a headline.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, new denials from the radio chat host, not about painkillers this time, but about money laundering.

BROWN: Thank you very much. Now to Boston and the tricky job of legislating the issue of gay marriage, or something close to it, while under a court order. Our Boston Bureau Chief Dan Lothian, has the watch again.

So, Dan, headline from you tonight.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, yesterday's ruling is now coming under heavy attack. Of course, that's not a big surprise. Opponents making a lot of phone calls to lawyers and lawmakers as they try to stop same-sex marriage from taking place in this state.

BROWN: Thank you very much. Finally, a port of call that hasn't been called on in decades. CNN's Mike Chinoy on the videophone now with the U.S. Navy in Vietnam.

Mike, a headline.

MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, for the first time since the end of the Vietnam War, the U.S. Navy is making a port call here in Vietnam. It's an important symbol of reconciliation. As the sailors went off on liberty in what used to be Saigon, folks here seemed very pleased to welcome them back.

Aaron.

BROWN: Mike, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also tonight, the president defends his stand on Iraq in a visit to Great Britain. Later we get a report on the ground from Baghdad, from John Burns, of "The New York Times," who says in some ways things are not so bad as you may think.

We continue our look at the assassination of President Kennedy with a look at how it ended an era of optimism in the country.

As always, we end the evening with a check of your papers for tomorrow morning and the rooster that thankfully does not show up on your front doorstep.

All that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin with Michael Jackson, whose latest single, from his newest album, is entitled "One More Chance." He was supposed to perform it a week from today on a network TV special, but as you might imagine the special has been postponed indefinitely.

The singer faces serious charges and plans for a comeback have been set aside in favor of plans for his surrender. CNN's Frank Buckley begins our coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Santa Barbara authorities said they are actively pursuing an arrest warrant against entertainer Michael Jackson.

JIM ANDERSON, SHERIFF, SANTA BARBARA: An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued on multiple counts of child molestation.

BUCKLEY: Sheriff Jim Anderson and District Attorney Thomas Sneddon would not disclose any details including the age or gender of the alleged child victim. Jackson denied any wrongdoing through a spokesman, who said, "The outrageous allegations against Michael Jackson are false. Michael would never harm a child in anyway. These scurrilous and totally unfounded allegations will be proven false in a courtroom."

The announcement came a day after a team of more than 60 investigators descended on Jackson's Neverland Ranch to serve a search warrant. Two additional warrants were served in Los Angeles. Jackson was not at any of the locations. He was working on a music video in Las Vegas. Authorities did not pursue him, allowing him instead to turn himself in.

ANDERSON: Mr. Jackson's been given an opportunity to surrender himself to the custody of the Santa Barbara sheriff's department within a specified period of time.

BUCKLEY: Jackson was accused in 1993 of sexually molesting a 13- year-old boy. He was not charged with a crime. The alleged victim refused to testify. Jackson consistently maintained his innocence.

MICHAEL JACKSON: I am totally innocent of any wrongdoing and I know these terrible allegations will all be proven false.

BUCKLEY: A financial settlement was reached in that case, but Santa Barbara authorities say this case will be different.

THOMAS SNEDDON, SANTA BARBARA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There is no civil case filed, and there is no anticipation that there will be a civil case filed in this particular case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And a familiar legal name will be representing Michael Jackson, at least leading the defense team. Mark Geragos, who is currently representing Scott Peterson in the Laci Peterson preliminary hearing in Modesto has agreed to be the lead on the defense team for Michael Jackson.

Meanwhile, Aaron, tonight we continue to wait for Michael Jackson to turn himself in; a knowledgeable source telling us that that will happen sometime tomorrow.

BROWN: Frank, let me try to do a bunch of really quick ones. Help me out here. Do we know where Mr. Jackson is tonight?

BUCKLEY: We -- the latest we have is we believe he's still in Las Vegas.

BROWN: OK. Number two, do we know anything about the young man whose allegations are at the center of this? How he came in contact with Mr. Jackson, anything like that at all?

BUCKLEY: A lot of speculation. No need to go there, because we don't know for sure. We don't even know, at least officially, if it's a boy or a girl. All we know is that according to the charging -- the penal code violation, that it's a child under the age of 14 years of age.

BROWN: Do we know anything about what police were looking for or found in their long search of the property over the last day?

BUCKLEY: We can assume that they were looking for things like photos. There are many photos on the grounds. Other documents that would corroborate what the child has said, what the victim has said. We know that generally that's what they're looking for. We also know that they videotaped everything on the Neverland premises.

But beyond that, we don't have any specifics yet and we're told that the affidavit that was in support of the search and arrest warrants will be sealed for at least 45 days.

BROWN: And finally, if in fact he is guilty and is convicted on these counts, what is he looking at?

BUCKLEY: Well, it's three to eight years, depending on the conviction, per count. We don't know how many counts. And it's up to the judge. And, again, this is looking way forward, but it would be up to the judge to sentence. And he could do those consecutively. So theoretically, each count, a certain number of years and run them all together.

BROWN: Frank, nice job tonight. Thank you very much. Frank Buckley out of Santa Barbara, California, tonight. We'll have more on the Michael Jackson case in the next segment of the program. Other matters first.

In this case, Rush Limbaugh. When he entered rehab a little more than five weeks ago it was understood he still faced a number of questions and potentially a lot of legal complications regarding his drug purchases. He was addicted to painkillers. Today he addressed one of them stemming from questionable withdrawals from a bank in New York. Reporting the story for us, CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Rush Limbaugh, back on the air and back on the defensive.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I was not laundering money. I was withdrawing money, for crying out loud.

FEYERICK: Limbaugh recently got out of drug rehab after admitting he was addicted to painkillers. Police are investigating claims by Limbaugh's former housekeeper that she illegally sold Limbaugh thousands of prescription painkillers. He has denied doing anything illegal.

Now the question raised by news stories, did Limbaugh violate Florida money laundering laws? That's what the radio chat host was denying Wednesday, telling listeners his bank told him to take out sums under $10,000, so the bank wouldn't have to report them to the government.

LIMBAUGH: The bank apparently told many other of their clients that their cash withdrawals should be in amounts less than $10,000.

FEYERICK: Limbaugh says a bank representative came to his office four or five times, each time bringing him more than $9,000. The bank, U.S. Trust, tells CNN it never talks about its clients. Two years ago, U.S. Trust paid state and federal regulators a $10 million fine for allegedly violating rules designed to stop money laundering and fraud. U.S. Trust admitted no wrongdoing. Money laundering experts say Limbaugh still could be in jeopardy.

CHARLES INTRIAGO, MONEY LAUNDERING EXPERT: It doesn't matter what the purpose of the withdrawals was. What matters under the criminal law that I'm referring to, the structuring law, is that he structured the transaction to avoid or evade the filing of a required federal reporting form.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK (on camera): Limbaugh told his audience he took out about $300,000 over five years, mostly to remodel his Palm Beach home. His lawyers said he has not committed any money laundering offense. Aaron.

BROWN: This is -- are all the law enforcement sources on this pretty tight lipped right now?

FEYERICK: Everybody is very tight lipped about what's going on right now.

BROWN: All right. Let's leave it there. Deborah Feyerick, thank you on the Limbaugh story.

Now, a question of life or death for convicted sniper John Muhammad. The prosecution rested today in the penalty phase of his trial. The defense gets under way tomorrow with chilling and potentially damaging testimony from Muhammad's ex-wife, still fresh in the ears and on the minds of jurors.

Reporting the story, CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John Muhammad's ex-wife Mildred, a central but until now mysterious figure in the sniper story, testified that John Muhammad repeatedly threatened her after the break-up of their marriage, saying to her at one point, "Just know this, you have become my enemy, and as my enemy, I will kill you." In the courtroom, deputies shielded her whenever Muhammad was near.

Prosecutors theorized the snipers shootings were part of an elaborate scheme to kill Mildred and regain custody of their three children. Jurors haven't been allowed to hear that theory, but 10- year-old Talibah (ph) Muhammad is apparently aware. According to Mildred, when Talibah heard her father had been found guilty, she said, "Mom, I know if dad gets out that means he's going to kill you, and I don't want to live the rest of my life without my mommy. Out of the presence of the jury, she quoted 13-year-old John Jr. as saying, "If dad takes you out, then I'm going to have to take him out."

Mildred carried to Virginia Beach letters for John Muhammad from each of the children. All wrote that they loved him and always would. And from Talibah, "I miss you so much, and can I ask you some questions? One, why did you do all those shootings?"

Mary Merez (ph), a former girlfriend of Muhammad, testified for the defense, describing Muhammad as a generous man. She cried as she said, I feel that his life will always have value. He's a person that has so much to give.

(on camera): Jurors had to pass around a tissue box after the highly emotional victim impact testimony of friends and family of Dean Meyers. They described him as a generous man, who always thought of others before himself until a single gunshot wound to the head left him dead.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Virginia Beach, Virginia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The day after the Massachusetts supreme court opened the door to gay marriage in the state, the rough and tumble work of making sense of the ruling is under way. Legislators there now have less than six months to craft a new marriage law, laws that don't discriminate against couples of the same sex. The ruling appears to leave little room for doing anything but, which has done nothing to settle the issue, Just the opposite.

Here's CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As the headlines screamed a historic decision and wedding cliches as gays, lesbians and their supporters reveled in the high court's ruling, the battle to defeat same-sex marriage intensified. Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney leads the way, unwilling to call it a done deal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think there may be civil unions of some kind, some definition being crafted by the legislature on an interim basis, but I don't think you'll see traditional marriage.

LOTHIAN: At the Massachusetts Family Institute President Ron Cruz has been working the phones to help fuel opposition to what he calls a radical decision.

RON CREWS, MASSACHUSETTS FAMILY INST.: I've been talking to attorneys to find out if there are any legal remedies, any's to take to either delay the implementation of this decision, any motions we can file.

LOTHIAN: It isn't clear what the state legislature, which has 180 days to act on the ruling, can or will do in the short term. But anything to block this landmark decision, say supporters, is not only wishful thinking, but wrong.

JARRETT BARRIOS (D), MASS. STATE SENATOR: The SJC said that the constitution requires that nobody be discriminated against.

LOTHIAN: GLAD, the Gay and Lesbian Organization, which won the lawsuit on behalf of seven same-sex couples, has been meeting behind closed doors to keep their meeting from being derailed.

MARY BONAUTO, PLAINTIFF'S LAWYER: It's fine to talk about something, but it's late, late to be talking about civil unions. We're now on the frontier of marriage, the same marriage everyone else has.

LOTHIAN: Public reaction remains mixed, in a state where 50 percent support same-sex marriage and 44 percent oppose it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm surprised it happened in Massachusetts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think everyone should be afforded the same civil protections as everyone else.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHAIN: So what happens if opponents succeed in either delaying or blocking same-sex marriage in this state? Well, GLAD says it is paying attention and trying to figure out what move they will make, and it's ready to foil those moves, even if it means going back to court -- Daryn.

BROWN: Is the legislature in session?

LOTHAIN: They are. And what they say at this point is that simply they really doesn't know. There seems to be so much confusion in this case. They say there was a lot of vague statements made in that ruling yesterday, and they simply don't know what their next move will be.

BROWN: Dan, thank you very much. Dan Lothian, our Boston bureau chief.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a lot more on the Michael Jackson case. We'll be joined by defense lawyer Al DeBlanc and Peter Castro of "People" magazine. Later, a strange sight indeed, American soldiers on liberty in a city once known as Saigon, the first time since the end of the Vietnam War. We'll have a report from New York. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More now on the Michael Jackson story. We're joined tonight by Peter Castro, who had a late night of it last night for sure. He's with "People" magazine, and the magazine held the press to get the story in, and the developments played out yesterday in Neverland. We're also joined from Los Angeles by defense attorney Al DeBlanc.

Good to see you both.

Peter, let me start with you. How big a deal is this?

PETER CASTRO, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: This is huge. This is the closest Michael Jackson has ever come to getting arrested. And of course this is what people expected ten years ago, and he got off with a reported $25 million payoff.

BROWN: It's obviously a big deal to Michael Jackson. How big a deal is it to the readers of "People," to people around the world. Maybe the question is, how big a deal is Michael Jackson?

CASTRO: He's still a big deal. I think there is a certain element of finally, of a payoff, because I think a lot of people, our readers included, many of them are outraged that there were these allegations and, you know, that he wasn't really prosecuted the way a normal person might have been.

BROWN: He wasn't prosecuted at all.

CASTRO: Or prosecuted at all, exactly, and that his money did the talking. So I think there's sort of a sense of justice finally, if in fact this plays out to its end.

BROWN: And if in fact if he's guilty.

To Mr. LeBlanc -- a couple of things occurred to me as peter was talking. One, if you're a defense attorney, you've gotten an interesting set of problems here it seems to me. You've got this allegation that everyone knows about, whether jurors are supposed to think about it or not. You have a client who people at best will consider a little bit odd, maybe worse than that. Where do you begin?

AL DEBLANC, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY.: Well, you begin by saying that he's presumed innocent even though he has a strange background and had accusations in this area. You really have to look at the case and you have to put all these others out of your mind and just examine this. And, remember, Michael Jackson is a target defendant because he obviously makes a lot of money. It's well known that he's settled an accusation without it even being proven for somewhere around $20 million. So that's going to be the beginning.

The next is going to be, what evidence can they marshal together? I know that a lot of officers descended upon his property, looking probably for trace hair, fiber, trace evidence, or what have you, in his house, near his bed, in his bed. He has already admitted that he allows children to come to his home. He has them in the bed, and he shares his bed with them. This is all a part of Michael Jackson's failure to have a real childhood.

So the prosecution would have to begin to show that in no way should this kid have ever been in his bed, because if the kid had any reason to be there with him with parental consent, then where is the evidence at this point? Now, I agree, it is a very serious case and the sentence is far more than some people have talked about. Because I've been practicing for 28 years. Under California law, if the victim minor in a child molestation case is under 14 years of age, there's a special enhancement that adds a lot of years. And if the defendant is 10 years older than the victim, there is another enhancement that adds even more years, and there is no limit on the stacking for each act committed in one occasion.

BROWN: Peter, at the risk of showing both age and ignorance here, in musical terms, is he particularly relevant these days?

CASTRO: Not really. He hasn't been relevant for a long time. But what was especially harmful to him was the 1993 allegations. I mean, after that, there was such a harsh taint on him that a lot of the -- he drove a lot of people away in droves.

BROWN: And I assume they're picking up people now on the roadside with these new allegations.

CASTRO: Well, yes, I don't think he can quite survive this. Even if he is innocent in the long run, I think this is just one too many times.

BROWN: Does he still have a lot of money?

CASTRO: He does. He doesn't have nearly as much as he used to. He is still reportedly worth around $300 million, but a lot of that is tied up in royalties, and you know, He took out a $200 million loan last year. And Neverland is still worth a lot of money. Also -- you've seen the Martin Brashear documentary. He spends in kind of an insane way.

BROWN: Al, the law in California changed after the allegations ten years ago to essentially compel, if I understand this correctly, an alleged victim or to compel them to tell the story, right?

DEBLANC: That is true. However, that doesn't really cure the problem. If -- even though the minor could be compelled to come and testify, he could still take the position that he's not going to prosecute.

For example, if you're sitting on a jury and you have the minor get up there and testify and the minor says, well, you know, I'm not really sure, I changed my mind, it really didn't happen the way I first said it happened. That's probably going to be the end of the case in the mind of one or more jurors. So you have to have a victim witness who is cooperating ongoing and sincere about it and not a person who's changed his mind and simply being compelled to go forward by the government.

BROWN: Is this a huge deal out in California tonight?

DEBLANC: I didn't think that anything could eclipse Kobe Bryant, but apparently this one has. Michael Jackson is an international music icon. And so I think the interest is overwhelming. It's been amazing to me how one case -- we get to a case and I say, there can't be anything worse than this that could take this off the air, but here comes another case. Michael Jackson, I believe, is right up front now, and I don't know how long he'll be out there.

BROWN: Al, it's good to see you again. Peter, I'm assume you agree, this is a huge deal.

CASTRO: This is huge. I mean, the idea of Michael Jackson in jail is just too bizarre to be believed.

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. Thank you. I know it was a tough night for you tonight.

Before we go to break, a few more items from around the country, starting out with eight competing designs for the memorial to the victims of the World Trade Center attack. It's an incredibly important piece of real estate. The eight were chosen from 5,200 entries. A 13 member panel will decide which one is built by the end of the year.

A report is out on last summer's blackout, the worst blackout in the country ever, puts a lion's share of blame on First Energy, the Ohio utility, specifically a power plant in Akron, Ohio, where investigators say poor training and computer problems kept workers from fixing line problems that ultimately took down the grid.

And in Detroit today, Ford rolled off the assembly line, just like Fords have been rolling off the line every day since 1903. This one, though, was a little different. The Mustang is the 300 millionth vehicle to carry the company's name.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, the president defends his policy on Iraq. And then back to the scene of an earlier American war as U.S. warships visit Ho Chi Minh City, the town that used to be Saigon.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: President Bush walked a fine line in London today. He forcefully defended the war in Iraq but did it in such a way that seemed tailor made to smooth over hurt feelings and gently remind his audience that more unites the two countries than divides them.

It is safe to say not everyone was persuaded. There were protesters and tough editorials. And being Britain, a tabloid scoop, as well.

The day from our senior White House correspondent, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Buckingham Palace, a choreographed show of British pageantry and resolve, a royal welcome designed to showcase the most sturdy of partnerships. But off the palace grounds, a show of another sort. The first wave of mass protests by opponents of the Iraq war. And those who view the relationship between Washington and London, at least at the moment, as anything but special.

It was this that the president view confronted in a high stakes speech designed to get critics here and across Europe to think again. Mr. Bush said those who say he ignores international institutions like the United Nations are wrong, but that there are a limit to patience and times when force is necessary.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not enough to meet the dangers of the world with resolutions. We must meet those dangers with resolve.

KING: The president promised to keep U.S. forces in Iraq until it has a stable new government. And, recalling the lessons of two world wars, said he for one would not ignore the threat of terrorism.

BUSH: The evil is in plain sight. The danger only increases with denial.

KING: Mr. Bush tried humor to acknowledge the controversy over his visit, recalling the American who recently spent 40 some days without food in a Plexiglas tube over the River Thames.

BUSH: A few might have been happy to provide similar arrangements for me. I thank Her Majesty, the Queen for interceding.

KING: The security was extraordinary, but one embarrassing breach made front-page news: a tabloid reporter, hired as a Buckingham Palace aide because his references were not properly checked.

In Parliament, Prime Minister Blair once again defended his close ties to Mr. Bush but faced skeptical questions from fellow Labour Party members, who suggest Britain gets little in return for its steadfast loyalty.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It really is about time we started to realize who our allies are, who our enemies are, stick with the one and fight the other.

KING (on camera): Well aware this visit is causing Prime Minister Blair more than a little political grief, Mr. Bush saluted his friend as a strong partner and as a man of, quote, "backbone when times get tough."

John King, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: It's another of those odd juxtapositions that happen in this business.

As President Bush defends his reasons for the war in Iraq, what may in some ways may be the end of the end of the war in Vietnam. A U.S. Warship arrived in what used to be known as Saigon today, the first visit there of this kind since the end of the Vietnam War. The USS Vandergrift arrived in what is now Ho Chi Minh City with the eager cooperation of the communist Vietnamese government.

And once there, American sailors did what their predecessors did a generation ago, more or less.

Here is CNN's Mike Chinoy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For an entire generation of American soldiers, a night in Saigon meant booze, girls and escape from the battlefield. The contrast with the sailors making the first U.S. Navy port call since the end of the Vietnam War couldn't be greater.

(on camera) During the war, this street was packed with girlie bars and massage parlors and sleazy clubs. Most of that was long ago cleaned up. The Ho Chi Minh City of today is very different from the Saigon of old.

(voice-over) Such are the political sensitivities of this visit that the men of the USS Vandergrift were given strict instructions to behave and stay out of trouble.

Still, as we discovered, sailors will be sailors. A cold beer and a pretty waitress, a welcome change from weeks at sea.

For Chris Hunt, whose father fought with the Marines in Vietnam and never talked about the war afterwards, being here had special meaning.

PETTY OFFICER CHRIS HUNT, U.S. NAVY: We're very proud and honored to be the ones who represent the entire Navy and the entire country and government, for that matter, to come over here and show that fences can be mended.

CHINOY: All of these sailors were born after the war. Many were uncertain what kind of reception they'd get. All were pleasantly surprised.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is like one of the greatest ports I've ever been to.

CHINOY (on camera): How do you find the people here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone I've talked to has been really friendly. I really honestly didn't expect it, but it's also now really -- well, friendly.

CHINOY (voice-over): Sonar operator Chris Hefferton (ph) ended up having coffee with two Vietnamese: one a local, the other Larry Phan (ph), a onetime refugee who lives in California and comes back now regularly. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They see the American Navy as the enemy, like before, but now they see them like a friend.

CHINOY: And the war seems a long way off.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHINOY: Well, it's the morning after now. And for the past hour or so, members of the Vietnamese military have been getting guided tours of the USS Vandergrift behind me, while the sailors went off to dig the foundation for a school and to bring toys to a school for the kids at an orphanage -- Aaron.

BROWN: Today -- We look at them like -- they look so young, honestly. Do they have any sense of the history of this moment?

CHINOY: Some of them do. But most of them admit that, for them, the Vietnam War is like World War II. It's really ancient history. It's not something they've grown up with.

Some of them confess to a certain degree of unease and uncertainty about how people will look at them. But most of them, it's really from a very long time ago. They're just eager and excited and curious. And they know -- they feel they're doing something important by being here.

BROWN: Mike, it's a fascinating little moment. Thank you. Mike Chinoy in Ho Chi Minh City.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, just how bad is it in Baghdad or how good is it in Baghdad? A little of both, it turns out. A firsthand account from one of the truly great foreign correspondents, John Burns of "The New York Times," after the break.

On CNN, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And much more NEWSNIGHT ahead, including morning papers. Of course some fascinating ones there. And more in our series on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Iraq now and a couple of developments there to report.

The military announcing a $10 million reward today for information leading to the capture of Izzat Ibrahim. Mr. Ibrahim, you may remember, was part of Saddam's inner circle and is now suspected of leading elements of the insurgency.

And in the fight against it today, saw jets from the USS Enterprise taking part in bombing raids on Iraqi targets. And once again homes were leveled, and once again, people complained. And questions again arose about whether you can fight a counterinsurgency from 30,000 feet.

There are larger questions, too, about the state of play in the country and the state of mind of ordinary Iraqis.

John Burns has been filing some wonderful reports on that score in the pages of "The New York Times." We are always pleased to see him, and he joins us from Baghdad.

John, welcome again.

As you have wandered around the country over the last few weeks, what has surprised you most?

JOHN BURNS, "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER: Well, I was gone for four or five months. So I was returning to a different Iraq than the one I left.

I left an Iraq that had been recently freed of Saddam Hussein. The statue of Saddam in the square behind me here had been toppled. I stayed for about a month after that.

And I returned to find, for example, that this hotel is now a besieged hotel, that we're surrounded by a -- two ribbons -- two ribbon walls of 20-foot-high concrete, that there is considerable apprehension here, as wherever Americans, Westerners gather, particularly of course American troops, of truck bombings, ambushes and so forth.

So it's dispiriting. It's a major change, and weighing up what is good news and what is bad news here is not at all easy.

BROWN: Because there is some of both, or it's just so ambiguous?

BURNS: Well, there definitely is some of both. And it's very difficult to weight this.

For example, we have the objective measure of attacks on the United States armed forces, or coalition forces, which have increased from five or six a day five or six months ago to as many as 50 a day now. Clearly, there's the bad news.

But going out amongst Iraqis, there is some good news still to be found, amongst which is that virtually everybody I've spoken to does not want the United States forces to withdraw precipitously, because there's a widespread recognition that that would lead to chaos and civil war, two words -- or three words that you hear here very often.

BROWN: There is this ongoing discussion at the Pentagon and in Iraq about who the insurgents are, whether they're Iraqis, whether they're foreign fighters. Do you have a feel one way or another on that?

BURNS: Well, the announcement that you've just mentioned, the $10 million reward for Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, who was truly one of the most unpleasant people in this government, if not the single most unpleasant man after Saddam Hussein, a ginger haired, rake thin, six foot, 6'2" tall enforcer and murderer.

I think it's a well-established fact from the human rights reports in the history of this place, they've identified him now as being one of, if not the most probable leader of these attacks.

Clearly, there is a Saddamist -- a strong Saddamist element in this. And we know from my experience and the experience of others here who those people likely are.

This city was absolutely filled with Saddam Fedayeen, paramilitary fighters for Saddam, who simply melted away as American forces arrived here. We know that there were large arms caches out in the country.

We know that Saddam and his sons loaded up two flatbeds with American dollars in cash, $1 billion, $2 billion. I think it's not quite sure. But an enormous amount of money. And in a country with an unemployment rate of 50 percent, 60 percent, real unemployment rate, that kind of money will buy you a lot of action.

I've heard Iraqis say that if you offered $500 to many Iraqis to go fire an RPG at an American tank, you know, you'd find some takers. Not many, perhaps, but you'd find enough.

And then there are, of course, the Jihadi elements, and the military tell us that there may be 200 foreign fighters on a rotating basis here. And there certainly seems to be in their tactics a kind of Jihadi elements. The suicide bombings is what I'm talking about.

BROWN: To cover a quick other thing. Is it your view that -- well, what is your view on what will ultimately lead to success from the American perspective? Is there a critical moment coming, or is every day critical in some respects?

BURNS: Well, I hear so much from Iraqis about the need for jobs that it seems to me that the $20 billion that the Congress recently voted and another however much it was -- I forget now, but in the region of $10 billion to $13 billion from coalition partners, spent over here over the next 18 months to two years, that could make a difference. That could engender, create employment.

People here expected employment. They're not seeing it. As a matter of fact, they're seeing the opposite. There are a lot of people out of work. That could make a difference.

I think that the military -- interesting a report on Vietnam and the return of the Navy ship to Vietnam, because I think that this generation of military leaders, American military leaders, have really gone to school on that experience. And there is a really major hearts and minds efforts going on to rebuild schools, to rebuild hospitals. Your listeners will know all about that. And I think that that could make a difference.

And of course military operations, to go after these people. The military says there are 5,000 people in the armed resistance here, against an army of 130,000 Americans, another 25,000 or 30,000 coalition troops. So the odds in military terms of course are heavily on the coalition forces.

How effective can they be? How effective is it dropping one-ton bombs? Difficult to say.

BROWN: John, it is very good to see you. As I told you before, your story on -- the piece you filed on Sunday was a fabulous piece of reading in the pages of "The Times." We appreciate the time today. Thank you.

John Burns of "The New York Times."

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the day things changed in the country. How the Kennedy assassination seemed to so many people to change everything.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: All this week, as many of you know, we have been looking at the Kennedy assassination. Tomorrow we'll devote nearly half the program to an in-depth look at what happened at Dealey Plaza 40 years ago on Saturday.

And on Friday, an extended and fascinating conversation with Walter Cronkite, who spent that day and many of those that followed bringing us the news of what happened in the country.

Tonight, however, a preview of sorts from Jeff Greenfield on how that one moment almost 40 years ago now changed everything.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Of course the country was traumatized by the Kennedy assassination. The murder of a young president in broad daylight was shocking enough. The images transmitted almost instantly through the increasingly pervasive medium of television held the country mesmerized for days.

But there's another, much less recognized part of the story here.

(on camera) The assassination came at a time when America was in the grip of widespread optimism. No matter where you looked in the fall of 1963, things were looking up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By using efficient machinery...

(voice-over) As it happened, John Kennedy's election coincided with the start of the longest peacetime expansion of the economy in American history. It was growing at nearly four percent a year. Inflation was averaging barely two percent and unemployment was dropping steadily.

And...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our wants will never end. GREENFIELD: ... from suburban homes to color televisions to automobiles, a level of comfort almost unimaginable to children of the Depression and World War II had become a reasonable middle class expectation.

And a Kennedy tax cut plan was working its way through the Congress. No wonder 77 percent of Americans said they were satisfied with their standard of living.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crisis...

GREENFIELD: But there were bigger reasons for optimism. A year earlier, with the Cuban missile crisis, the world had come very close to nuclear war. But in the summer of 1963, Kennedy announced an agreement on a limited nuclear test ban treaty with the Soviet Union.

JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yesterday, a shaft of light shot into the darkness.

GREENFIELD: The Senate ratified that treaty in September. The president signed it a month later. And the prospects for a thaw in the Cold War were real.

Yes, there was trouble stirring far away in South Vietnam. A coup had violently removed that nation's president; 15,000 American advisers were there...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to teach Vietnamese fighting forces how to...

GREENFIELD: ... but no hints of the wider war that was to come.

On the home front, there was progress on the most vexing of national dilemmas: civil rights.

On August 28, 1963, 250,000 Americans had gathered peacefully in Washington to hear Martin Luther King talk of his dream. And the most far-reaching civil rights bill in history was before the Congress.

The first of the riots that would plague dozens of American cities was almost a year away.

(on camera) The point is not that John Kennedy was responsible for this wave of optimism, or that he would necessarily would have avoided the ills that followed.

But the fact that things seemed to be going so well on so many fronts and seemed to turn so wrong just a year or two later is yet another reason why the assassination marks a turning point in American history.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And, again, tomorrow, almost half the program on what happened at Dealey Plaza 40 years ago.

Morning papers are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Okie dokie, time to check morning papers from around the country. And I've got to tell you, this is kind of a one story day, but the way newspapers headline it tells you something about each paper, I think.

"The Boston Herald," the tabloid up in Boston, "Face the Music" is the headline. It's an interesting shot they chose, isn't it? "Police say icon Jackson" -- I'm not sure about that -- "molested a 12-year-old boy."

That's the way they headline the story.

"The Daily Variety," which the "Daily Variety" has its own readership, of course. It's an industry paper. Love this one. "TV's Wacko Over Jacko." That's the headline in "Daily Variety." "Just in time for the tail end of the November sweeps, the Michael Jackson show is once again ready for prime time."

"The Cincinnati Inquirer," Cincinnati kind of a staid and comfortable middle class town, right? Down at the bottom is where they play the story, below the other important things of the day. "Singer Jackson wanted on molestation charges." Couldn't be a more straight headline than that.

They put the president and the queen in the center of the paper there, the queen of England. Well, where else, right? Come on, Aaron.

"Philadelphia Inquirer": "Warrant is issued for Jackson; child molestation alleged. A spokesman calls case 'scurrilous.'"

Also on the front page, good story, "Pennsylvania tests show a racial divide. New data reveal that blacks and Latinos score well below whites and Asians in reading and math." A vexing problem for the country, that.

How are we doing on time, David?

One oh three. Moving a little quickly tonight, aren't you, Aaron?

"San Antonio Express-News": again, pretty straight. "Molestation case hits Jackson. California officials issue an arrest warrant for the singer. Bail likely will be set at $3 million."

Over here in the box, "Warrant accuses of lewd conduct with a child under 14, each count punishable by three to eight years in prison."

You don't have to read the story. Put it all in the headline. Those people are cool. Anything else there I liked? Yes, but we'll just move on, anyway.

Where did they put it? The "Dallas Morning News" -- I like this headline, "From stardom to sad spectacle. Molestation charges are latest scandal to tarnish Jackson's image."

I'm not sorry. I don't mean to laugh. It's not funny, is it?

"Chicago Sun-Times": "The King of Pop facing abuse rap." Up here, "What would Aaron do?" OK, they're waiting for the end of "The Bachelor," I guess. "We wait on bachelor Bob's choice and wonder who Aaron Brown would choose."

Aaron Brown chose a long time ago, and happily.

"Holy mackerel," the weather tomorrow in Chicago, 64 degrees.

We'll wrap up the day and recap the top story in just a moment.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Protesters in U.K.>


Aired November 19, 2003 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR, NEWSNIGHT: Good evening, again, everyone. There are important stories and irresistible ones and you can be absolutely certain this is one of them.
Michael Jackson, for better or worse, guilty or innocence, has been part of the landscape in one way or another for nearly 40 years. He's been famous almost his entire life, infamous for some of it. Front page news either way. So irresistible, yes.

But important? We remember the day Elvis died and the "CBS Evening News" led with the signing of the Panama Canal Treaty instead. We won't make that mistake tonight. Michael Jackson leads the program and "The Whip."

The Whip begins in Santa Barbara , California, not far from Mr. Jackson's Neverland Ranch. CNN's Frank Buckley has been there all day.

Frank, start us with the headline.

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, authorities here today confirmed that Michael Jackson is wanted on an arrest warrant that alleges multiple counts of child molestation. Jackson has agreed to turn himself in. He is also vowing to fight the charges to prove his innocence.

Aaron.

BROWN: Frank, thank you. Next to New York and an investigation of Rush Limbaugh and his dealings with the bank. CNN's Deborah Feyerick with that.

Deb, a headline.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, new denials from the radio chat host, not about painkillers this time, but about money laundering.

BROWN: Thank you very much. Now to Boston and the tricky job of legislating the issue of gay marriage, or something close to it, while under a court order. Our Boston Bureau Chief Dan Lothian, has the watch again.

So, Dan, headline from you tonight.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, yesterday's ruling is now coming under heavy attack. Of course, that's not a big surprise. Opponents making a lot of phone calls to lawyers and lawmakers as they try to stop same-sex marriage from taking place in this state.

BROWN: Thank you very much. Finally, a port of call that hasn't been called on in decades. CNN's Mike Chinoy on the videophone now with the U.S. Navy in Vietnam.

Mike, a headline.

MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, for the first time since the end of the Vietnam War, the U.S. Navy is making a port call here in Vietnam. It's an important symbol of reconciliation. As the sailors went off on liberty in what used to be Saigon, folks here seemed very pleased to welcome them back.

Aaron.

BROWN: Mike, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also tonight, the president defends his stand on Iraq in a visit to Great Britain. Later we get a report on the ground from Baghdad, from John Burns, of "The New York Times," who says in some ways things are not so bad as you may think.

We continue our look at the assassination of President Kennedy with a look at how it ended an era of optimism in the country.

As always, we end the evening with a check of your papers for tomorrow morning and the rooster that thankfully does not show up on your front doorstep.

All that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin with Michael Jackson, whose latest single, from his newest album, is entitled "One More Chance." He was supposed to perform it a week from today on a network TV special, but as you might imagine the special has been postponed indefinitely.

The singer faces serious charges and plans for a comeback have been set aside in favor of plans for his surrender. CNN's Frank Buckley begins our coverage.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Santa Barbara authorities said they are actively pursuing an arrest warrant against entertainer Michael Jackson.

JIM ANDERSON, SHERIFF, SANTA BARBARA: An arrest warrant for Mr. Jackson has been issued on multiple counts of child molestation.

BUCKLEY: Sheriff Jim Anderson and District Attorney Thomas Sneddon would not disclose any details including the age or gender of the alleged child victim. Jackson denied any wrongdoing through a spokesman, who said, "The outrageous allegations against Michael Jackson are false. Michael would never harm a child in anyway. These scurrilous and totally unfounded allegations will be proven false in a courtroom."

The announcement came a day after a team of more than 60 investigators descended on Jackson's Neverland Ranch to serve a search warrant. Two additional warrants were served in Los Angeles. Jackson was not at any of the locations. He was working on a music video in Las Vegas. Authorities did not pursue him, allowing him instead to turn himself in.

ANDERSON: Mr. Jackson's been given an opportunity to surrender himself to the custody of the Santa Barbara sheriff's department within a specified period of time.

BUCKLEY: Jackson was accused in 1993 of sexually molesting a 13- year-old boy. He was not charged with a crime. The alleged victim refused to testify. Jackson consistently maintained his innocence.

MICHAEL JACKSON: I am totally innocent of any wrongdoing and I know these terrible allegations will all be proven false.

BUCKLEY: A financial settlement was reached in that case, but Santa Barbara authorities say this case will be different.

THOMAS SNEDDON, SANTA BARBARA DISTRICT ATTORNEY: There is no civil case filed, and there is no anticipation that there will be a civil case filed in this particular case.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BUCKLEY: And a familiar legal name will be representing Michael Jackson, at least leading the defense team. Mark Geragos, who is currently representing Scott Peterson in the Laci Peterson preliminary hearing in Modesto has agreed to be the lead on the defense team for Michael Jackson.

Meanwhile, Aaron, tonight we continue to wait for Michael Jackson to turn himself in; a knowledgeable source telling us that that will happen sometime tomorrow.

BROWN: Frank, let me try to do a bunch of really quick ones. Help me out here. Do we know where Mr. Jackson is tonight?

BUCKLEY: We -- the latest we have is we believe he's still in Las Vegas.

BROWN: OK. Number two, do we know anything about the young man whose allegations are at the center of this? How he came in contact with Mr. Jackson, anything like that at all?

BUCKLEY: A lot of speculation. No need to go there, because we don't know for sure. We don't even know, at least officially, if it's a boy or a girl. All we know is that according to the charging -- the penal code violation, that it's a child under the age of 14 years of age.

BROWN: Do we know anything about what police were looking for or found in their long search of the property over the last day?

BUCKLEY: We can assume that they were looking for things like photos. There are many photos on the grounds. Other documents that would corroborate what the child has said, what the victim has said. We know that generally that's what they're looking for. We also know that they videotaped everything on the Neverland premises.

But beyond that, we don't have any specifics yet and we're told that the affidavit that was in support of the search and arrest warrants will be sealed for at least 45 days.

BROWN: And finally, if in fact he is guilty and is convicted on these counts, what is he looking at?

BUCKLEY: Well, it's three to eight years, depending on the conviction, per count. We don't know how many counts. And it's up to the judge. And, again, this is looking way forward, but it would be up to the judge to sentence. And he could do those consecutively. So theoretically, each count, a certain number of years and run them all together.

BROWN: Frank, nice job tonight. Thank you very much. Frank Buckley out of Santa Barbara, California, tonight. We'll have more on the Michael Jackson case in the next segment of the program. Other matters first.

In this case, Rush Limbaugh. When he entered rehab a little more than five weeks ago it was understood he still faced a number of questions and potentially a lot of legal complications regarding his drug purchases. He was addicted to painkillers. Today he addressed one of them stemming from questionable withdrawals from a bank in New York. Reporting the story for us, CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Rush Limbaugh, back on the air and back on the defensive.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I was not laundering money. I was withdrawing money, for crying out loud.

FEYERICK: Limbaugh recently got out of drug rehab after admitting he was addicted to painkillers. Police are investigating claims by Limbaugh's former housekeeper that she illegally sold Limbaugh thousands of prescription painkillers. He has denied doing anything illegal.

Now the question raised by news stories, did Limbaugh violate Florida money laundering laws? That's what the radio chat host was denying Wednesday, telling listeners his bank told him to take out sums under $10,000, so the bank wouldn't have to report them to the government.

LIMBAUGH: The bank apparently told many other of their clients that their cash withdrawals should be in amounts less than $10,000.

FEYERICK: Limbaugh says a bank representative came to his office four or five times, each time bringing him more than $9,000. The bank, U.S. Trust, tells CNN it never talks about its clients. Two years ago, U.S. Trust paid state and federal regulators a $10 million fine for allegedly violating rules designed to stop money laundering and fraud. U.S. Trust admitted no wrongdoing. Money laundering experts say Limbaugh still could be in jeopardy.

CHARLES INTRIAGO, MONEY LAUNDERING EXPERT: It doesn't matter what the purpose of the withdrawals was. What matters under the criminal law that I'm referring to, the structuring law, is that he structured the transaction to avoid or evade the filing of a required federal reporting form.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK (on camera): Limbaugh told his audience he took out about $300,000 over five years, mostly to remodel his Palm Beach home. His lawyers said he has not committed any money laundering offense. Aaron.

BROWN: This is -- are all the law enforcement sources on this pretty tight lipped right now?

FEYERICK: Everybody is very tight lipped about what's going on right now.

BROWN: All right. Let's leave it there. Deborah Feyerick, thank you on the Limbaugh story.

Now, a question of life or death for convicted sniper John Muhammad. The prosecution rested today in the penalty phase of his trial. The defense gets under way tomorrow with chilling and potentially damaging testimony from Muhammad's ex-wife, still fresh in the ears and on the minds of jurors.

Reporting the story, CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John Muhammad's ex-wife Mildred, a central but until now mysterious figure in the sniper story, testified that John Muhammad repeatedly threatened her after the break-up of their marriage, saying to her at one point, "Just know this, you have become my enemy, and as my enemy, I will kill you." In the courtroom, deputies shielded her whenever Muhammad was near.

Prosecutors theorized the snipers shootings were part of an elaborate scheme to kill Mildred and regain custody of their three children. Jurors haven't been allowed to hear that theory, but 10- year-old Talibah (ph) Muhammad is apparently aware. According to Mildred, when Talibah heard her father had been found guilty, she said, "Mom, I know if dad gets out that means he's going to kill you, and I don't want to live the rest of my life without my mommy. Out of the presence of the jury, she quoted 13-year-old John Jr. as saying, "If dad takes you out, then I'm going to have to take him out."

Mildred carried to Virginia Beach letters for John Muhammad from each of the children. All wrote that they loved him and always would. And from Talibah, "I miss you so much, and can I ask you some questions? One, why did you do all those shootings?"

Mary Merez (ph), a former girlfriend of Muhammad, testified for the defense, describing Muhammad as a generous man. She cried as she said, I feel that his life will always have value. He's a person that has so much to give.

(on camera): Jurors had to pass around a tissue box after the highly emotional victim impact testimony of friends and family of Dean Meyers. They described him as a generous man, who always thought of others before himself until a single gunshot wound to the head left him dead.

Jeanne Meserve, CNN, Virginia Beach, Virginia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The day after the Massachusetts supreme court opened the door to gay marriage in the state, the rough and tumble work of making sense of the ruling is under way. Legislators there now have less than six months to craft a new marriage law, laws that don't discriminate against couples of the same sex. The ruling appears to leave little room for doing anything but, which has done nothing to settle the issue, Just the opposite.

Here's CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: As the headlines screamed a historic decision and wedding cliches as gays, lesbians and their supporters reveled in the high court's ruling, the battle to defeat same-sex marriage intensified. Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney leads the way, unwilling to call it a done deal.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think there may be civil unions of some kind, some definition being crafted by the legislature on an interim basis, but I don't think you'll see traditional marriage.

LOTHIAN: At the Massachusetts Family Institute President Ron Cruz has been working the phones to help fuel opposition to what he calls a radical decision.

RON CREWS, MASSACHUSETTS FAMILY INST.: I've been talking to attorneys to find out if there are any legal remedies, any's to take to either delay the implementation of this decision, any motions we can file.

LOTHIAN: It isn't clear what the state legislature, which has 180 days to act on the ruling, can or will do in the short term. But anything to block this landmark decision, say supporters, is not only wishful thinking, but wrong.

JARRETT BARRIOS (D), MASS. STATE SENATOR: The SJC said that the constitution requires that nobody be discriminated against.

LOTHIAN: GLAD, the Gay and Lesbian Organization, which won the lawsuit on behalf of seven same-sex couples, has been meeting behind closed doors to keep their meeting from being derailed.

MARY BONAUTO, PLAINTIFF'S LAWYER: It's fine to talk about something, but it's late, late to be talking about civil unions. We're now on the frontier of marriage, the same marriage everyone else has.

LOTHIAN: Public reaction remains mixed, in a state where 50 percent support same-sex marriage and 44 percent oppose it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm surprised it happened in Massachusetts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think everyone should be afforded the same civil protections as everyone else.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHAIN: So what happens if opponents succeed in either delaying or blocking same-sex marriage in this state? Well, GLAD says it is paying attention and trying to figure out what move they will make, and it's ready to foil those moves, even if it means going back to court -- Daryn.

BROWN: Is the legislature in session?

LOTHAIN: They are. And what they say at this point is that simply they really doesn't know. There seems to be so much confusion in this case. They say there was a lot of vague statements made in that ruling yesterday, and they simply don't know what their next move will be.

BROWN: Dan, thank you very much. Dan Lothian, our Boston bureau chief.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a lot more on the Michael Jackson case. We'll be joined by defense lawyer Al DeBlanc and Peter Castro of "People" magazine. Later, a strange sight indeed, American soldiers on liberty in a city once known as Saigon, the first time since the end of the Vietnam War. We'll have a report from New York. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More now on the Michael Jackson story. We're joined tonight by Peter Castro, who had a late night of it last night for sure. He's with "People" magazine, and the magazine held the press to get the story in, and the developments played out yesterday in Neverland. We're also joined from Los Angeles by defense attorney Al DeBlanc.

Good to see you both.

Peter, let me start with you. How big a deal is this?

PETER CASTRO, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: This is huge. This is the closest Michael Jackson has ever come to getting arrested. And of course this is what people expected ten years ago, and he got off with a reported $25 million payoff.

BROWN: It's obviously a big deal to Michael Jackson. How big a deal is it to the readers of "People," to people around the world. Maybe the question is, how big a deal is Michael Jackson?

CASTRO: He's still a big deal. I think there is a certain element of finally, of a payoff, because I think a lot of people, our readers included, many of them are outraged that there were these allegations and, you know, that he wasn't really prosecuted the way a normal person might have been.

BROWN: He wasn't prosecuted at all.

CASTRO: Or prosecuted at all, exactly, and that his money did the talking. So I think there's sort of a sense of justice finally, if in fact this plays out to its end.

BROWN: And if in fact if he's guilty.

To Mr. LeBlanc -- a couple of things occurred to me as peter was talking. One, if you're a defense attorney, you've gotten an interesting set of problems here it seems to me. You've got this allegation that everyone knows about, whether jurors are supposed to think about it or not. You have a client who people at best will consider a little bit odd, maybe worse than that. Where do you begin?

AL DEBLANC, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTY.: Well, you begin by saying that he's presumed innocent even though he has a strange background and had accusations in this area. You really have to look at the case and you have to put all these others out of your mind and just examine this. And, remember, Michael Jackson is a target defendant because he obviously makes a lot of money. It's well known that he's settled an accusation without it even being proven for somewhere around $20 million. So that's going to be the beginning.

The next is going to be, what evidence can they marshal together? I know that a lot of officers descended upon his property, looking probably for trace hair, fiber, trace evidence, or what have you, in his house, near his bed, in his bed. He has already admitted that he allows children to come to his home. He has them in the bed, and he shares his bed with them. This is all a part of Michael Jackson's failure to have a real childhood.

So the prosecution would have to begin to show that in no way should this kid have ever been in his bed, because if the kid had any reason to be there with him with parental consent, then where is the evidence at this point? Now, I agree, it is a very serious case and the sentence is far more than some people have talked about. Because I've been practicing for 28 years. Under California law, if the victim minor in a child molestation case is under 14 years of age, there's a special enhancement that adds a lot of years. And if the defendant is 10 years older than the victim, there is another enhancement that adds even more years, and there is no limit on the stacking for each act committed in one occasion.

BROWN: Peter, at the risk of showing both age and ignorance here, in musical terms, is he particularly relevant these days?

CASTRO: Not really. He hasn't been relevant for a long time. But what was especially harmful to him was the 1993 allegations. I mean, after that, there was such a harsh taint on him that a lot of the -- he drove a lot of people away in droves.

BROWN: And I assume they're picking up people now on the roadside with these new allegations.

CASTRO: Well, yes, I don't think he can quite survive this. Even if he is innocent in the long run, I think this is just one too many times.

BROWN: Does he still have a lot of money?

CASTRO: He does. He doesn't have nearly as much as he used to. He is still reportedly worth around $300 million, but a lot of that is tied up in royalties, and you know, He took out a $200 million loan last year. And Neverland is still worth a lot of money. Also -- you've seen the Martin Brashear documentary. He spends in kind of an insane way.

BROWN: Al, the law in California changed after the allegations ten years ago to essentially compel, if I understand this correctly, an alleged victim or to compel them to tell the story, right?

DEBLANC: That is true. However, that doesn't really cure the problem. If -- even though the minor could be compelled to come and testify, he could still take the position that he's not going to prosecute.

For example, if you're sitting on a jury and you have the minor get up there and testify and the minor says, well, you know, I'm not really sure, I changed my mind, it really didn't happen the way I first said it happened. That's probably going to be the end of the case in the mind of one or more jurors. So you have to have a victim witness who is cooperating ongoing and sincere about it and not a person who's changed his mind and simply being compelled to go forward by the government.

BROWN: Is this a huge deal out in California tonight?

DEBLANC: I didn't think that anything could eclipse Kobe Bryant, but apparently this one has. Michael Jackson is an international music icon. And so I think the interest is overwhelming. It's been amazing to me how one case -- we get to a case and I say, there can't be anything worse than this that could take this off the air, but here comes another case. Michael Jackson, I believe, is right up front now, and I don't know how long he'll be out there.

BROWN: Al, it's good to see you again. Peter, I'm assume you agree, this is a huge deal.

CASTRO: This is huge. I mean, the idea of Michael Jackson in jail is just too bizarre to be believed.

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. Thank you. I know it was a tough night for you tonight.

Before we go to break, a few more items from around the country, starting out with eight competing designs for the memorial to the victims of the World Trade Center attack. It's an incredibly important piece of real estate. The eight were chosen from 5,200 entries. A 13 member panel will decide which one is built by the end of the year.

A report is out on last summer's blackout, the worst blackout in the country ever, puts a lion's share of blame on First Energy, the Ohio utility, specifically a power plant in Akron, Ohio, where investigators say poor training and computer problems kept workers from fixing line problems that ultimately took down the grid.

And in Detroit today, Ford rolled off the assembly line, just like Fords have been rolling off the line every day since 1903. This one, though, was a little different. The Mustang is the 300 millionth vehicle to carry the company's name.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, the president defends his policy on Iraq. And then back to the scene of an earlier American war as U.S. warships visit Ho Chi Minh City, the town that used to be Saigon.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: President Bush walked a fine line in London today. He forcefully defended the war in Iraq but did it in such a way that seemed tailor made to smooth over hurt feelings and gently remind his audience that more unites the two countries than divides them.

It is safe to say not everyone was persuaded. There were protesters and tough editorials. And being Britain, a tabloid scoop, as well.

The day from our senior White House correspondent, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Buckingham Palace, a choreographed show of British pageantry and resolve, a royal welcome designed to showcase the most sturdy of partnerships. But off the palace grounds, a show of another sort. The first wave of mass protests by opponents of the Iraq war. And those who view the relationship between Washington and London, at least at the moment, as anything but special.

It was this that the president view confronted in a high stakes speech designed to get critics here and across Europe to think again. Mr. Bush said those who say he ignores international institutions like the United Nations are wrong, but that there are a limit to patience and times when force is necessary.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's not enough to meet the dangers of the world with resolutions. We must meet those dangers with resolve.

KING: The president promised to keep U.S. forces in Iraq until it has a stable new government. And, recalling the lessons of two world wars, said he for one would not ignore the threat of terrorism.

BUSH: The evil is in plain sight. The danger only increases with denial.

KING: Mr. Bush tried humor to acknowledge the controversy over his visit, recalling the American who recently spent 40 some days without food in a Plexiglas tube over the River Thames.

BUSH: A few might have been happy to provide similar arrangements for me. I thank Her Majesty, the Queen for interceding.

KING: The security was extraordinary, but one embarrassing breach made front-page news: a tabloid reporter, hired as a Buckingham Palace aide because his references were not properly checked.

In Parliament, Prime Minister Blair once again defended his close ties to Mr. Bush but faced skeptical questions from fellow Labour Party members, who suggest Britain gets little in return for its steadfast loyalty.

TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: It really is about time we started to realize who our allies are, who our enemies are, stick with the one and fight the other.

KING (on camera): Well aware this visit is causing Prime Minister Blair more than a little political grief, Mr. Bush saluted his friend as a strong partner and as a man of, quote, "backbone when times get tough."

John King, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: It's another of those odd juxtapositions that happen in this business.

As President Bush defends his reasons for the war in Iraq, what may in some ways may be the end of the end of the war in Vietnam. A U.S. Warship arrived in what used to be known as Saigon today, the first visit there of this kind since the end of the Vietnam War. The USS Vandergrift arrived in what is now Ho Chi Minh City with the eager cooperation of the communist Vietnamese government.

And once there, American sailors did what their predecessors did a generation ago, more or less.

Here is CNN's Mike Chinoy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE CHINOY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For an entire generation of American soldiers, a night in Saigon meant booze, girls and escape from the battlefield. The contrast with the sailors making the first U.S. Navy port call since the end of the Vietnam War couldn't be greater.

(on camera) During the war, this street was packed with girlie bars and massage parlors and sleazy clubs. Most of that was long ago cleaned up. The Ho Chi Minh City of today is very different from the Saigon of old.

(voice-over) Such are the political sensitivities of this visit that the men of the USS Vandergrift were given strict instructions to behave and stay out of trouble.

Still, as we discovered, sailors will be sailors. A cold beer and a pretty waitress, a welcome change from weeks at sea.

For Chris Hunt, whose father fought with the Marines in Vietnam and never talked about the war afterwards, being here had special meaning.

PETTY OFFICER CHRIS HUNT, U.S. NAVY: We're very proud and honored to be the ones who represent the entire Navy and the entire country and government, for that matter, to come over here and show that fences can be mended.

CHINOY: All of these sailors were born after the war. Many were uncertain what kind of reception they'd get. All were pleasantly surprised.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is like one of the greatest ports I've ever been to.

CHINOY (on camera): How do you find the people here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everyone I've talked to has been really friendly. I really honestly didn't expect it, but it's also now really -- well, friendly.

CHINOY (voice-over): Sonar operator Chris Hefferton (ph) ended up having coffee with two Vietnamese: one a local, the other Larry Phan (ph), a onetime refugee who lives in California and comes back now regularly. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They see the American Navy as the enemy, like before, but now they see them like a friend.

CHINOY: And the war seems a long way off.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CHINOY: Well, it's the morning after now. And for the past hour or so, members of the Vietnamese military have been getting guided tours of the USS Vandergrift behind me, while the sailors went off to dig the foundation for a school and to bring toys to a school for the kids at an orphanage -- Aaron.

BROWN: Today -- We look at them like -- they look so young, honestly. Do they have any sense of the history of this moment?

CHINOY: Some of them do. But most of them admit that, for them, the Vietnam War is like World War II. It's really ancient history. It's not something they've grown up with.

Some of them confess to a certain degree of unease and uncertainty about how people will look at them. But most of them, it's really from a very long time ago. They're just eager and excited and curious. And they know -- they feel they're doing something important by being here.

BROWN: Mike, it's a fascinating little moment. Thank you. Mike Chinoy in Ho Chi Minh City.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, just how bad is it in Baghdad or how good is it in Baghdad? A little of both, it turns out. A firsthand account from one of the truly great foreign correspondents, John Burns of "The New York Times," after the break.

On CNN, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And much more NEWSNIGHT ahead, including morning papers. Of course some fascinating ones there. And more in our series on the assassination of John F. Kennedy.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Iraq now and a couple of developments there to report.

The military announcing a $10 million reward today for information leading to the capture of Izzat Ibrahim. Mr. Ibrahim, you may remember, was part of Saddam's inner circle and is now suspected of leading elements of the insurgency.

And in the fight against it today, saw jets from the USS Enterprise taking part in bombing raids on Iraqi targets. And once again homes were leveled, and once again, people complained. And questions again arose about whether you can fight a counterinsurgency from 30,000 feet.

There are larger questions, too, about the state of play in the country and the state of mind of ordinary Iraqis.

John Burns has been filing some wonderful reports on that score in the pages of "The New York Times." We are always pleased to see him, and he joins us from Baghdad.

John, welcome again.

As you have wandered around the country over the last few weeks, what has surprised you most?

JOHN BURNS, "NEW YORK TIMES" REPORTER: Well, I was gone for four or five months. So I was returning to a different Iraq than the one I left.

I left an Iraq that had been recently freed of Saddam Hussein. The statue of Saddam in the square behind me here had been toppled. I stayed for about a month after that.

And I returned to find, for example, that this hotel is now a besieged hotel, that we're surrounded by a -- two ribbons -- two ribbon walls of 20-foot-high concrete, that there is considerable apprehension here, as wherever Americans, Westerners gather, particularly of course American troops, of truck bombings, ambushes and so forth.

So it's dispiriting. It's a major change, and weighing up what is good news and what is bad news here is not at all easy.

BROWN: Because there is some of both, or it's just so ambiguous?

BURNS: Well, there definitely is some of both. And it's very difficult to weight this.

For example, we have the objective measure of attacks on the United States armed forces, or coalition forces, which have increased from five or six a day five or six months ago to as many as 50 a day now. Clearly, there's the bad news.

But going out amongst Iraqis, there is some good news still to be found, amongst which is that virtually everybody I've spoken to does not want the United States forces to withdraw precipitously, because there's a widespread recognition that that would lead to chaos and civil war, two words -- or three words that you hear here very often.

BROWN: There is this ongoing discussion at the Pentagon and in Iraq about who the insurgents are, whether they're Iraqis, whether they're foreign fighters. Do you have a feel one way or another on that?

BURNS: Well, the announcement that you've just mentioned, the $10 million reward for Izzat Ibrahim al-Douri, who was truly one of the most unpleasant people in this government, if not the single most unpleasant man after Saddam Hussein, a ginger haired, rake thin, six foot, 6'2" tall enforcer and murderer.

I think it's a well-established fact from the human rights reports in the history of this place, they've identified him now as being one of, if not the most probable leader of these attacks.

Clearly, there is a Saddamist -- a strong Saddamist element in this. And we know from my experience and the experience of others here who those people likely are.

This city was absolutely filled with Saddam Fedayeen, paramilitary fighters for Saddam, who simply melted away as American forces arrived here. We know that there were large arms caches out in the country.

We know that Saddam and his sons loaded up two flatbeds with American dollars in cash, $1 billion, $2 billion. I think it's not quite sure. But an enormous amount of money. And in a country with an unemployment rate of 50 percent, 60 percent, real unemployment rate, that kind of money will buy you a lot of action.

I've heard Iraqis say that if you offered $500 to many Iraqis to go fire an RPG at an American tank, you know, you'd find some takers. Not many, perhaps, but you'd find enough.

And then there are, of course, the Jihadi elements, and the military tell us that there may be 200 foreign fighters on a rotating basis here. And there certainly seems to be in their tactics a kind of Jihadi elements. The suicide bombings is what I'm talking about.

BROWN: To cover a quick other thing. Is it your view that -- well, what is your view on what will ultimately lead to success from the American perspective? Is there a critical moment coming, or is every day critical in some respects?

BURNS: Well, I hear so much from Iraqis about the need for jobs that it seems to me that the $20 billion that the Congress recently voted and another however much it was -- I forget now, but in the region of $10 billion to $13 billion from coalition partners, spent over here over the next 18 months to two years, that could make a difference. That could engender, create employment.

People here expected employment. They're not seeing it. As a matter of fact, they're seeing the opposite. There are a lot of people out of work. That could make a difference.

I think that the military -- interesting a report on Vietnam and the return of the Navy ship to Vietnam, because I think that this generation of military leaders, American military leaders, have really gone to school on that experience. And there is a really major hearts and minds efforts going on to rebuild schools, to rebuild hospitals. Your listeners will know all about that. And I think that that could make a difference.

And of course military operations, to go after these people. The military says there are 5,000 people in the armed resistance here, against an army of 130,000 Americans, another 25,000 or 30,000 coalition troops. So the odds in military terms of course are heavily on the coalition forces.

How effective can they be? How effective is it dropping one-ton bombs? Difficult to say.

BROWN: John, it is very good to see you. As I told you before, your story on -- the piece you filed on Sunday was a fabulous piece of reading in the pages of "The Times." We appreciate the time today. Thank you.

John Burns of "The New York Times."

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the day things changed in the country. How the Kennedy assassination seemed to so many people to change everything.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: All this week, as many of you know, we have been looking at the Kennedy assassination. Tomorrow we'll devote nearly half the program to an in-depth look at what happened at Dealey Plaza 40 years ago on Saturday.

And on Friday, an extended and fascinating conversation with Walter Cronkite, who spent that day and many of those that followed bringing us the news of what happened in the country.

Tonight, however, a preview of sorts from Jeff Greenfield on how that one moment almost 40 years ago now changed everything.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Of course the country was traumatized by the Kennedy assassination. The murder of a young president in broad daylight was shocking enough. The images transmitted almost instantly through the increasingly pervasive medium of television held the country mesmerized for days.

But there's another, much less recognized part of the story here.

(on camera) The assassination came at a time when America was in the grip of widespread optimism. No matter where you looked in the fall of 1963, things were looking up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By using efficient machinery...

(voice-over) As it happened, John Kennedy's election coincided with the start of the longest peacetime expansion of the economy in American history. It was growing at nearly four percent a year. Inflation was averaging barely two percent and unemployment was dropping steadily.

And...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our wants will never end. GREENFIELD: ... from suburban homes to color televisions to automobiles, a level of comfort almost unimaginable to children of the Depression and World War II had become a reasonable middle class expectation.

And a Kennedy tax cut plan was working its way through the Congress. No wonder 77 percent of Americans said they were satisfied with their standard of living.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Crisis...

GREENFIELD: But there were bigger reasons for optimism. A year earlier, with the Cuban missile crisis, the world had come very close to nuclear war. But in the summer of 1963, Kennedy announced an agreement on a limited nuclear test ban treaty with the Soviet Union.

JOHN F. KENNEDY, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yesterday, a shaft of light shot into the darkness.

GREENFIELD: The Senate ratified that treaty in September. The president signed it a month later. And the prospects for a thaw in the Cold War were real.

Yes, there was trouble stirring far away in South Vietnam. A coup had violently removed that nation's president; 15,000 American advisers were there...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... to teach Vietnamese fighting forces how to...

GREENFIELD: ... but no hints of the wider war that was to come.

On the home front, there was progress on the most vexing of national dilemmas: civil rights.

On August 28, 1963, 250,000 Americans had gathered peacefully in Washington to hear Martin Luther King talk of his dream. And the most far-reaching civil rights bill in history was before the Congress.

The first of the riots that would plague dozens of American cities was almost a year away.

(on camera) The point is not that John Kennedy was responsible for this wave of optimism, or that he would necessarily would have avoided the ills that followed.

But the fact that things seemed to be going so well on so many fronts and seemed to turn so wrong just a year or two later is yet another reason why the assassination marks a turning point in American history.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And, again, tomorrow, almost half the program on what happened at Dealey Plaza 40 years ago.

Morning papers are next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Okie dokie, time to check morning papers from around the country. And I've got to tell you, this is kind of a one story day, but the way newspapers headline it tells you something about each paper, I think.

"The Boston Herald," the tabloid up in Boston, "Face the Music" is the headline. It's an interesting shot they chose, isn't it? "Police say icon Jackson" -- I'm not sure about that -- "molested a 12-year-old boy."

That's the way they headline the story.

"The Daily Variety," which the "Daily Variety" has its own readership, of course. It's an industry paper. Love this one. "TV's Wacko Over Jacko." That's the headline in "Daily Variety." "Just in time for the tail end of the November sweeps, the Michael Jackson show is once again ready for prime time."

"The Cincinnati Inquirer," Cincinnati kind of a staid and comfortable middle class town, right? Down at the bottom is where they play the story, below the other important things of the day. "Singer Jackson wanted on molestation charges." Couldn't be a more straight headline than that.

They put the president and the queen in the center of the paper there, the queen of England. Well, where else, right? Come on, Aaron.

"Philadelphia Inquirer": "Warrant is issued for Jackson; child molestation alleged. A spokesman calls case 'scurrilous.'"

Also on the front page, good story, "Pennsylvania tests show a racial divide. New data reveal that blacks and Latinos score well below whites and Asians in reading and math." A vexing problem for the country, that.

How are we doing on time, David?

One oh three. Moving a little quickly tonight, aren't you, Aaron?

"San Antonio Express-News": again, pretty straight. "Molestation case hits Jackson. California officials issue an arrest warrant for the singer. Bail likely will be set at $3 million."

Over here in the box, "Warrant accuses of lewd conduct with a child under 14, each count punishable by three to eight years in prison."

You don't have to read the story. Put it all in the headline. Those people are cool. Anything else there I liked? Yes, but we'll just move on, anyway.

Where did they put it? The "Dallas Morning News" -- I like this headline, "From stardom to sad spectacle. Molestation charges are latest scandal to tarnish Jackson's image."

I'm not sorry. I don't mean to laugh. It's not funny, is it?

"Chicago Sun-Times": "The King of Pop facing abuse rap." Up here, "What would Aaron do?" OK, they're waiting for the end of "The Bachelor," I guess. "We wait on bachelor Bob's choice and wonder who Aaron Brown would choose."

Aaron Brown chose a long time ago, and happily.

"Holy mackerel," the weather tomorrow in Chicago, 64 degrees.

We'll wrap up the day and recap the top story in just a moment.

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