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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Bush Speaks in Ohio; Five British Terror Suspects Freed Without Charges After 2 Years in Camp X-Ray

Aired March 10, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening to you. I'm Anderson Cooper in for Aaron Brown who is on assignment in the Middle East.
The Rust Belt state of Ohio is gold in presidential politics. No Republican has ever won the White House without carrying Ohio and this year that means making a convincing case on the economy.

Unemployment in the state is higher than the national average and more than 100,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost in the last four years. So, you could say Mr. Bush was facing a tough crowd when he arrived in Ohio today, the state he won by just four percentage points four years ago.

The challenge of Ohio is where the whip begins. CNN's John King starts us off with a headline -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the president acknowledged tough times in Ohio and tough emotions about the economy across the industrial heartland today but he also was quite defiant. He said those who criticize his trade policies are wrong, Mr. Bush also saying what his critics propose is "a recipe for economic disaster" -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, back to you shortly John.

Next to Senator Kerry who is slugging away and doing a little trash talking to if you ask the opposition. CNN's Bob Franken on that for us tonight, Bob a headline.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And, Anderson, the Bush campaign is demanding that Kerry apologize, whatever for, well we'll just tell you in a moment.

COOPER: All right.

On to London where five inmates of the prison camp in Guantanamo Bay are home and apparently home free as well, CNN's Robyn Curnow with a story tonight and a headline -- Robyn.

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Anderson. Five British terror suspects freed without charge after two years in Camp X-Ray -- back to you.

COOPER: Thanks, Robyn. Finally, Vancouver, hockey and repercussions from an especially brutal moment on the ice, CNN's Kimberly Osias is covering that tonight, Kimberly a headline from you.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fighting in ice hockey is part of the game and why pay to see it but now it may have gone too far -- Anderson.

COOPER: There is fighting and then there is fighting. Kimberly thanks. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also ahead tonight on the program what's with the fixation on reality shows around here, here, there and everywhere. Does it have something to do with the villains perhaps? We'll ask the producer of "Fear Factor." He ought to know.

And later, another of our "Look at it This Way" segments on still photography, tonight actor Jeff Bridges shows us what he's been doing for decades off camera, all that to come in the hour ahead.

We begin with the economy stupid. It is depending on the expert you ask, either on the mend, in a rut, both or well neither. Ask a political strategist, however, and you'll get a much simpler answer. It is key, both the reality of it and the perception, key in Michigan, in Missouri, in Pennsylvania and Ohio where the president spent some time today.

Here again CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): Thermagon is a Cleveland high tech company that exports 60 percent of its products. This presidential visit designed to make the point trade is part of the solution for a struggling jobs market not the problem.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Listen, the best product on any shelf anywhere in the world says "made in the USA."

KING: The president didn't name names but suggests critics who blame him for manufacturing jobs lost to cheap overseas labor markets will do the economy a lot more harm than good.

BUSH: That old policy of tax and spend is the enemy of job creation. The old policy of economic isolationism is a recipe for economic disaster.

KING: Mr. Bush's success in making this case could determine whether he has a job come January. Eight-five percent of Americans in a new CNN poll say keeping American jobs from going overseas will be important in their choice for president.

Democrat John Kerry supported the North American Free Trade Agreement and a similar pact with China but in appealing for union support, Senator Kerry now promises if elected to review all major trade deals. SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush thinks exporting our jobs is good economic policy. I believe that creating jobs here in America, keeping good jobs here and exporting goods is good for our economy.

KING: No Republican has ever won the White House without carrying Ohio, one of the big industrial states where the debate over trade and outsourcing is loudest. Ohio's unemployment rate if 6.2 percent and the state has lost more than 160,000 manufacturing jobs during the Bush presidency.

Mr. Bush says the pain would have been a lot worse if not for his push for more trade and big tax cuts and he says those who blame trade for tough times ignore reality.

Ninety-five percent of the world's consumers live outside the United States. One in five U.S. manufacturing jobs depends on exports and 6.4 million Americans work for foreign companies.

BUSH: Economic isolationism would lead to retaliation from abroad and put many of those jobs at risk.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: You might remember more than five months ago on Labor Day, the president promised to name an administration manufacturing czar. The White House says it is now poised to make that appointment. A Nebraska businessman is the frontrunner for that post.

Senator Kerry tonight saying though that's too little too late, in his words one new government bureaucrat, Anderson, won't make up for two and a half million lost manufacturing jobs.

COOPER: John, the Democrats of course point out President Bush's support for tariffs on steel. I guess the White House is not talking about that today.

KING: No, the White House is not and you see the flurry of e- mails back and forth between the campaigns. Neither President Bush's record or Senator Kerry's record is entirely consistent on this issue.

Senator Kerry has voted for trade deals. Now he says he would look at them. President Bush has been mostly a free trader but, you're exactly right, under political pressure he did impose temporary tariffs on steel.

This is a debate that is going to continue and, if you look at how close this election appears to be right now, it will be decided in those big industrial states, Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania and Michigan, more of this in the weeks and months ahead.

COOPER: Yes, John, it's a little bit off topic. Yesterday, Kerry was talking about proposing debates, issue oriented debates, you know, one on each issue in various states. Did the White House respond at all to that? KING: The White House has not responded officially. The Bush campaigns says it will think about debates down the road a little bit. The incumbent, of course, has a lot of leverage when it comes to scheduling the debates. Do not look for the president to agree to monthly debates at all.

Look for the negotiations around the conventions on maybe two or three debates in the fall but, again, that position will go back and forth and back and forth, probably mostly depending on the polls.

COOPER: Right. It's a game John Kerry knows well. He didn't debate Edwards at all so he's familiar with it I'm sure.

KING: That's right.

COOPER: All right, John King thanks at the White House.

On now to the opposition, again today, as John King mentioned in his report, Senator Kerry laid into the president's handling of the economy and more. He seems to be taking a page from the post Dukakis playbook which reads: "Don't wait for your opponent to define you and swing back when swung upon."

It's been making for plenty of sound bytes and today created one of those unscripted moments that people talk about the next day or, in this case, the same evening.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): John Kerry is clearly not pulling any punches about what his aides call the Bush campaign's deceit.

KERRY: These guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group that I've ever seen.

FRANKEN: This is just the most recent Kerry attack this month on foreign policy.

KERRY: I think George Bush has run the most arrogant, inept, reckless and ideological foreign policy in the modern history of our country.

FRANKEN: On the famous photo op.

KERRY: That George Bush thought he could just play dress-up on an aircraft carrier.

FRANKEN: On the president's plan for a Mars mission.

KERRY: Send Bush to Mars. There's another idea.

FRANKEN: On the issues, particularly the economy, Kerry believes he has the president on the defensive. KERRY: Ladies and gentlemen, it's got to be getting lonely for George Bush. It seems he's the last person left in America who actually believe his failed policies will ever work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: Kerry met with Howard Dean this afternoon and will get together with John Edwards tomorrow to coordinate the Democratic message, the Democratic assault -- Anderson.

COOPER: It does seem like that. All right, Bob. It was interesting seeing that video where he actually made the comments about the sort of crooked liars or lying as he called them. It looked like, I guess people were taking his mike off. Was it clear whether he intended that to go out over his microphone? Was that a mistake?

FRANKEN: This is not an amateur. I don't know. It doesn't look like it was a mistake. He knew he had an ear piece on. You could see that he was fumbling with it. I don't think that there is any effort here to try and soft peddle things. I believe the Democrats believe that their constituency is so strongly against President Bush that it's probably not a bad idea to try and keep the heat pretty intense.

COOPER: And it's going to get must more intense as the weeks and months progress. All right, Bob Franken thanks a lot.

Not all the swings are coming from across the political divide, we should point out, and some are narrowly focused. Tomorrow, a group that supported President Bush four years ago will launch the centerpiece of a $1 million ad campaign attacking the constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, which Mr. Bush has backed, the ad sponsored the Log Cabin Republicans, the ad itself unprecedented.

Here's CNN's Judy Woodruff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fact of the matter is we live in a free society and freedom means freedom for everybody.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The first television commercial ever from the nation's largest organization of gay Republicans, the Log Cabin Club, a million dollar campaign knocking a proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, the footage, Dick Cheney, weighing in at the 2000 vice presidential debate.

CHENEY: I think different states are likely to come to different conclusions and that's appropriate. I don't think there should necessarily be a federal policy in this area.

WOODRUFF: A view not shared today by the president.

BUSH: I call upon the Congress to promptly pass and to send to the states for ratification an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of a man and woman as husband and wife.

WOODRUFF: The Log Cabin Republicans who supported George W. Bush take pains not to mention him in their ad but they say they gave the White House fair warning.

PATRICK GUERRIERO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS: We made it clear to them though that if they were going to play politics, play political football with the American Constitution, we would have to react, to react strongly and that is what we've done.

WOODRUFF: From team Bush a tempered response: "We respect the differences of opinion in the Republican Party and we feel that during this election, the Republicans will unite behind the president on the big issues facing this country," and from the voice on the ad a show of solidarity.

CHENEY: He makes the decisions. He sets policy for the administration and I support him and the administration.

WOODRUFF: Where does that leave the Log Cabin Republicans, on the air with their ad and promising to reevaluate their support for President Bush at their convention in August.

Judy Woodruff, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Still ahead tonight on the program steroids in sports, can the Congress really do anything about it?

And in a violent sport, hockey, a shockingly violent attack, one that left a player hospitalized and could send another to jail.

And later on, we'll get to the bottom of why the people we really love on reality shows are the ones we hate.

From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Away from the campaign trail today, Republicans and Democrats are very much on the same page in a Senate hearing on the doping scandal in professional sports. Senators from both sides of the aisles hammered Major League Baseball and it's players' union for not cracking down on steroid abuse. They also threatened congressional action.

CNN's Joe Johns has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Major League Baseball players now in spring training, also now on notice from Congress, get tougher on steroids. The head of the players association got an earful at this hearing.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I can tell you and your players that you represent the status quo is not acceptable.

JOHNS: The heat is on baseball. Five to seven percent of tests on players last year came back positive for steroid use. Superstar Barry Bonds' personal trainer was charged with supplying steroids to athletes. Bonds denies using steroids. The Baseball Players Association has agreed to once a year random testing but says athletes still have rights.

DONALD FEHR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION: We don't treat it lightly. We don't treat lightly the notion of searches without cause.

JOHNS: And the players also say random testing is an issue of privacy but not everyone agrees.

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: The taking of steroids in private is designed specifically to affect your performance in public, specifically for that. There cannot possibly be a privacy issue here in my judgment.

JOHNS: Not all performance enhancing substances are illegal. Some are even available over the counter.

FEHR: You can't expect professional athletes to suggest that they somehow are different than anyone else and they can't go into a store and buy something that anyone else can buy.

JOHNS: But the commissioner of baseball says all should be banned.

BUD SELIG, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL COMMISSIONER: Regardless of whether the substances are categorized as steroids or nutritional supplements.

JOHNS (on camera): A proposal to crack down on some of those substances is gaining momentum here but, in the end, Congress may be able to do little more than shine a light on the problem.

Joe Johns, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: On to another athlete in trouble. Safe to say hockey is the alpha dog of sports. No one really expects it to be tame. It pretty much defines contact sport. But contact is different from criminal assault, which brings us to the Vancouver Canucks and the Colorado Avalanche.

What happened on the ice Monday night may have been revenge for rough play in an earlier game between the two teams but whatever it was, it has set off a storm and called into question a defining feature of the sport.

Here's CNN's Kimberly Osias.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) OSIAS (voice-over): It was a full on ambush in the third period, a sucker punch to the head from behind, the Canuck 6'3", 245-pound Todd Bertuzzi jumped rookie Avalance forward Steve Moore forcing him face first into the ice.

MELODY ESCALLIER, CANADIAN RESIDENT: I was absolutely disgusted. I thought it was no better than a mugging actually.

OSIAS: Moore is in a Vancouver hospital with a broken neck, cuts on his face and a concussion. He'll miss the rest of the season. The severity of the attacks send shockwaves through the entire hockey community.

STEVE KONGWALCHUCK, COLORADO AVALANCHE PLAYER: It happens from time to time because injuries are part of the game but not that way. That's the hard part, not that severe.

OSIAS: Bertuzzi's career is on hold while the NHL debates his future. An announcement will be made at 9:00 Eastern time Thursday morning. Vancouver police are investigating. The all-star forward could face criminal charges. The last time there was such a highly publicized incident in hockey, Bertuzzi himself spoke out against violence on the ice.

TODD BERTUZZI, VANCOUVER CANUCKS FORWARD: It's disgusting what happened and it's unfortunate and the league's got to do something about it.

OSIAS: He was referring to this game in February of 2000 when Boston Bruins tough guy Marty McSorley whacked Canuck player Donald Brashear with his stick. McSorley was convicted in Canada of assault with a weapon but served no jail time. The league suspended him for a year and he never returned.

WAYNE BROWN, HOCKEY FAN: It put a bad eye on hockey right now. People don't want to see this kind of stuff. Fighting is a part of what hockey is and I don't think they'll ever get rid of that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OSIAS: Todd Bertuzzi just had a press conference. Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERTUZZI: To the fans of hockey and the fans of Vancouver, for the kids that watch this game I'm truly sorry. I don't play the game that way. I'm not a mean spirited person and I'm sorry for what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: He also apologized to Steve Moore, to Moore's family and the entire Canuck organization -- Anderson.

COOPER: So, Kimberly, OK so he cried and he apologized. Did he explain?

OSIAS: Well, he didn't really offer a full explanation and obviously more will be coming to the fore as the days and the investigation continue.

COOPER: All right, Kimberly Osias thanks very much.

A couple other stories making news tonight, in Virginia a judge today imposed the sentence the jury recommended for convicted sniper Lee Boyd Malvo, life in prison without parole.

Mr. Malvo, now 19, was found guilty of course of capital murder and other charges in the death of an FBI analyst, one of just ten people killed and three wounded in the sniper attack that terrorized the Washington, D.C. area in the fall of 2002. It doesn't feel so long ago.

In Texas, a former university professor who set off a bioterrorism scare in January, 2003 was sentenced to two years in prison and fined $15,000. The scare began when he reported 30 vials of plague bacteria missing from his lab at Texas Tech. Later he said he had accidentally destroyed the samples, in the trial said he had no clear memory of doing so.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT freedom for some detainees as the British let five men who had been held at Guantanamo go free.

From NEWSNIGHT -- this is NEWSNIGHT from New York, be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well not more than a day after five Britons returned home from the detention camp at Guantanamo Bay all five are now apparently free and clear, quite a reversal from the worst of the worst to free to go and, as before, it is raising a lot of questions tonight.

So we go back to London and CNN's Robyn Curnow for details -- Robyn.

CURNOW: Hi there, Anderson.

Well, you're right. One day after they returned home after two years at Camp X-Ray in Cuba the final three British terror suspects have been released by anti-terror police here in Britain without charge. Earlier a fourth man was also released without charge.

Now they had been arrested when they arrived home on Tuesday by anti-terror police under Britain's terrorism act. They could have been held for 14 days without being charged but instead they are now free men after just one day in police custody. A fifth man who was part of that group was detained but not arrested when they arrived home.

Now all five men had been released by U.S. officials from Guantanamo Bay because they were considered low risk. British authorities obviously concurring with that saying these men are no longer terror suspects.

But, Anderson, as they make their way home tonight I'm sure many people in the local communities have mixed feelings, many people saying that they welcome these young men back saying they've always believed they were innocent.

However, other people in the local communities here in Britain saying that there's a big question mark over these men's heads. Just what were they doing in Afghanistan in the first place -- Anderson.

COOPER: Robyn, is there any sense that they will actually make public statements? I mean you say they're on their way home now. Do you know where they're going or when they will appear?

CURNOW: Police have said that they are escorting the men to locations of their choice at the moment so there is likely to be a great homecoming for these men after two years of not seeing their family.

Obviously, we also know that there is a chance that they'll be selling their stories to the national press. There's also the chance that they'll be thinking compensation from the U.S. and U.K. authorities. They say they were treated inhumanely and human rights lawyers here say that they could be awarded huge sums of money if they were found to have been imprisoned falsely -- Anderson.

COOPER: And there are still a number of British subjects being held at Guantanamo, am I correct in that?

CURNOW: You are correct in that, Anderson. There are four men still being held in Guantanamo Bay and their status is at the moment up to the U.S. authorities and it looks as if they will be charged or at least tried under the U.S. legal system at the moment.

COOPER: And how much attention are those four who are still in custody receiving in Great Britain? I understand their families have sort of come forward and say look they were just sort of caught up in events not of their choosing. The U.S. says something different.

CURNOW: There's been a huge public debate here in Britain about the fate of these men, many people saying that they've been treated inhumanely and against international law and, of course, the focus in the last few days, the last few weeks has been on these five men who were to be released. Now, of course, the focus shifts to the remaining four and their fate.

COOPER: All right, Robyn Curnow thanks very much from England, appreciate it.

The commander of the military's Southern Command today said U.S. Marines will be taking a more active role in trying to tamp down the violence in Haiti, no easy job that. Since Sunday they've shot and killed four Haitians, two of whom were killed today after opening fire on the prime minister's home in Port-au-Prince, not a good idea, rough work. And, in addition to trying to keep the peace there's the very naughty problem of reconstituting a government. Into that role today stepped a former government official and expatriate who has certainly got his work cut out for him.

Here's CNN's Harris Whitbeck.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gerard Latortue arrived in Port-au-Prince to take on what may well be the toughest job in the country. The former diplomat and international business consultant left his home in Florida to return to the place he was born.

Designated as Haiti's provisional prime minister, he will try to end the bloodshed. Since Haiti's President Jean-Bertrand Aristide left the country February 29th, reprisal killings have racked the population.

GERARD LATORTUE, PROVISIONAL PRIME MINISTER OF HAITI: The top priority would be to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) security problem and I would like to see the foreign troops here will cooperate with the national police to help us, to help us disarm all those who have illegal arms in their hands.

WHITBECK: Latortue's got the help of a multinational interim force. U.S. Marines and the Haitian Police have been encouraging civilians to turn in their weapons, so far, however, no luck.

CHARLES GURGANUS, USMC: Nothing, we haven't found any. We have not found any.

WHITBECK: But the U.S. Southern Command said Marines would soon start looking for arms caches stored in private buildings in Port-au- Prince. Finding them will be difficult. U.N. officials say tens of thousands of weapons are floating around.

And heavily armed rebel groups that appeared shortly before Aristide's departure say they will only lay down their weapons if the international force protects civilians from the violence.

The new prime ministers says while he makes security a priority he will also look into reconstituting the Haitian Army that was disbanded by Aristide in 1995.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITBECK: And that could spark even more fear among at least part of the population. The Haitian Army was responsible for massive human rights violations and many of its victims were Aristide supporters -- Anderson.

COOPER: Harris, how bad or good is the security right now, at least in Port-au-Prince where you are? Can you travel around? I mean can you go to City Soleil? Can you got to some of these areas? Are there police on the street or Marines?

WHITBECK: The presence of police and Marines is pretty spotty, Anderson. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Soleil is pretty much off limits. You know we have been warned that if we go there we could get into trouble. As you know that's a very, very large slum, a lot of tension there, a lot of Aristide supporters there, so we have to be very careful.

Now there is another demonstration that has been slated for tomorrow morning. Now there are a lot of people taking a close look at that because they don't want a repeat of what happened last Sunday when a demonstration in front of the presidential palace was fired upon.

The fact that there's a new prime minister in town and that he will be taking office tomorrow has some people concerned that those who are against his taking office, those who support Aristide, might try to take some sort of action on the street, so it's still a bit dicey here -- Anderson.

COOPER: And, Harris, I mean we saw in your report some people walking around with AK-47s, automatic weapons. Some of the people you described as some of the rebels. I mean are they visible on the street on a daily basis walking around with guns or is it more sort of they're behind closed doors just kind of waiting?

WHITBECK: They're not as visible as they had been before the multinational interim force came in but there are a lot of weapons on the street. As you know, Anderson, you've been here a lot, you know there are tens of thousands of weapons literally in the hands of many civilians here and people who aren't afraid to use those weapons.

So, what the U.S. Marines and other members of the multinational force are going to try to do now is go beyond simply asking people to turn in their weapons. They're actually going to start going into some of the neighborhoods where they believe that weapons might be stored.

COOPER: It's history repeating itself. That was done back in 1994.

All right, Harris Whitbeck, thanks very much. Stay safe.

A couple more items from around the world before we take a break, both a bit more hopeful than the goings-on in Haiti.

First stop, Lahore, Pakistan, and the arrival of India's cricket team -- yes, cricket team, another sign of a thaw in relations between the countries, a small one, perhaps. But then again, cricket fans take it very seriously. And there are a lot of them in both countries and around the world, for that matter. They'll meet on the pitch on Saturday, tight security and all.

And in Japan, they're now ready for the moment when Vaudeville rhinos go bad. This is not a reality show. After training for months using Vaudeville horses, officials gave the OK for the real thing, or the fake real thing, or the real fake thing. Several people were gored, but they managed to get the situation under control by pretending to use a stun gun on the guy playing the back two legs. All right, we have had our fun.

It's a earthquake drill at the Tokyo Zoo, in case a real rhino ever gets out of control. Let's hope it doesn't.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, who is telling the truth? The Republicans argue the economy is much better, while the Democrats say things are still terrible. Can both be right? We'll try to get some answer when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Woman discovers fingertip in salad?

All right, more now on the economy. The lumpy recovery, the exporting of America, however you put it, almost certain to be the issue one in the campaign, it seems, even with troops abroad and dangers here at home.

With us tonight to sort it all out is James Surowiecki, who writes about business markets and more for "The New Yorker" magazine.

Good to see you. Thanks for being with us.

JAMES SUROWIECKI, "THE NEW YORKER": Thanks for having me on.

COOPER: How is the economy doing? Kind of a stupid question. But depending on whom you ask, you get different answers.

SUROWIECKI: Well, it's really a mixed bag.

On the one hand, economic growth has been very strong over the last, let's say nine months. Two quarters ago, it was awesome. It was 2.8 percent, GDP growth. But employment is basically flat. There have been essentially almost no jobs created.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Right, 21,000 in the last month.

SUROWIECKI: In the last month.

COOPER: Right.

SUROWIECKI: And the economy really needs to create somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 jobs just to keep up with population growth and to keep the same number of people employed.

COOPER: And why is that? Is there one reason or I would assume it's a multitude?

SUROWIECKI: It's a multitude of reasons, I think.

I think one of the big reasons, obviously, is that this whole thing started with the bubble of the late '90s. So employment was probably higher than it would normally have been, because there were a lot of businesses that got started because...

COOPER: A lot of venture capital firms putting money into

(CROSSTALK)

SUROWIECKI: There was lot of money that was cheap, and so people started businesses. A lot of those are gone.

Businesses hired a lot of people that they no longer have business for. But I think part of it also is that businesses are very cautious and they remain very cautious. And they have gotten a lot quicker than in the past at firing people when the economy starts to slow down. And they have gotten a lot slower about hiring people when the economy starts to pick back up.

COOPER: Which I guess there's an argument that that -- some people I guess would argue that's good for the economy, that businesses are sort of on top of things?

(CROSSTALK)

SUROWIECKI: Right.

And it's good in the since that what it means is that everybody is working at pretty much their full capacity, if you will, that workers are much more productive than they've ever been.

The other amazing thing about the recovery has been that productivity is incredibly high. And there really has been a real shift in productivity growth. And that's really important for the economy.

COOPER: So the situation you describe is one where both the Republicans and Democrats can be describing the economy in completely divergent ways and yet both sort of be accurate in some ways.

SUROWIECKI: In some ways, yes.

But I do think that employment question, there's one other aspect that we haven't really talked about. And that is that there probably was not enough done to spur demand and to get the economy jump-started when it went into recession. There are certain things -- the Federal Reserve has been fantastic. It slashed interest rates and has kept interest rates incredibly low.

As you know, if you want to take out a home equity loan...

COOPER: Or refinance.

SUROWIECKI: Or refinance, it's crazy how they're basically giving money away.

COOPER: And that has spurred a lot -- just the whole refinancing alone has spurred parts of the economy (CROSSTALK)

SUROWIECKI: Absolutely. It's certainly kept people buying in terms of customer goods. But it's also -- home construction has been up. Home buying is up, all this kind of stuff.

But the other thing you can do, the government can do, is fiscal policy. And there, I think, we really have done a pretty bad job.

COOPER: But President Bush says that the tax cuts have spurred the economy.

SUROWIECKI: Right.

I think obviously any tax cut in general has a good -- has a less than -- it's not going to have a negative effect. The problem was that I think the Bush tax cuts were primarily long-term tax cuts. They're mostly back-loaded, so most of the Bush tax cuts are going to come in after like 2006.

COOPER: Do you agree with John Kerry who says they impacted more for richer people?

SUROWIECKI: Well, we certainly know they impacted more for richer people. That's just -- the numbers clearly bear that out.

And the reason that matters is just that rich people are more likely to take that money and invest it. That's good for the economy in the long term. But in terms of giving the economy a kind of kick in the pants, it doesn't really do that.

COOPER: But how much can a president really do to spur an economy? You can talk about it. You can kind of massage it. You can kind put ointment on it.

SUROWIECKI: Sure.

COOPER: But can you really fix it?

SUROWIECKI: No. I think it's unrealistic to expect a president to be fully responsible.

On the other hand, let's face it. If job growth were fantastic, we know the administration would be claiming credit.

COOPER: You think?

SUROWIECKI: No doubt.

(LAUGHTER)

SUROWIECKI: And I do think that the administration, they did have this window, say, from 2001 to 2002, when the economy went into recession, and the choice to do certain things that they might have done. And, instead, they chose to follow what I think was a less successful tack, which was these long-term tax cuts targeted primarily at the very wealthy.

COOPER: And the economy, I guess, what, the hope now that it just rights itself?

SUROWIECKI: Yes, I think that's basically what -- if you listened to Bush's speech today -- he gave a speech in Ohio. And if you listened to it, a lot of what he said about the economy, that the American economy is -- that productivity growth is good and that free trade is good, all those things I think are right.

But he can't really make a case for his own economic policy, because we've lost 2.4 million jobs since he came into office. And whether he's responsible for that or not, what we know is that he's not done the job to fix it, basically.

COOPER: All right, we'll leave it there. James Surowiecki, thanks very much.

SUROWIECKI: Thank for having me on.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Enjoy your writing.

SUROWIECKI: Thanks.

COOPER: Well, a few more business items before we go to break in our "Moneyline Roundup" tonight.

Spam starts it off. Leading Internet providers today teamed up to fight it. Microsoft, EarthLink, AOL and others jointly filing federal lawsuits against spammers in a number of states. This is the first time competitors have gotten together to take advantage of new federal legislation that makes it easier to go after spammers; $43 billion, container ships, that is the latest monthly total trade deficit between the United States and rest of the world. It is also the largest such deficit on record.

That said, the number had little effect on markets. They were already in the tank. For the Dow, which got dinged for 160 points, it was enough to drive the index into the red for the year so far.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, on to something real, reality TV that is a look at why the villains are often the best parts.

James, you can stick around for that if you want.

We'll be right back. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, it has become the ultimate consolation prize for those who fail to make the cut in that ever-expanding corner of popular culture. When reality bites, Hollywood steps in.

After getting the boots, the agents start calling, at least for a little bit. Even the least likable losers, the one everyone loves to hate, get wooed. Omarosa, for example, she was fired by Donald Trump, fired on last week's episode of "The Apprentice." She cried. It didn't work. She got fired. Now she says she's fielding offers to host a talk show. I have my doubts, but that's what she says.

What is up with us? Matt Kunitz should know. He's the executive producer of "Fear Factor." He joins us now from Los Angeles.

Matt, thanks for being on the program.

MATT KUNITZ, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "FEAR FACTOR": Thanks for having me.

COOPER: First of all, does a woman like Omarosa have a future in TV or is it impossible to predict?

KUNITZ: I would say the odds are slim.

I've seen hundreds and hundreds of reality contestants come on the shows, whether it be "Real World" or "Fear Factor." And after they have their 15 minutes of fame, they all another to just push it for that 16, 17 minutes. And I could count on one hand the few people that have probably actually made a career out of it.

COOPER: And explain the process of why that happens. What is that transformation? Because I know when you're recruiting people, when you are auditioning people to be on these shows, you're not looking for people who want to be actors, because those are the people you kind of don't really want.

KUNITZ: Right.

No, we avoid actors. And we tell everyone when we're casting them that, don't come on this show to become famous. It's a not going to happen. On a show like "Fear Factor," come on the show because you want to challenge yourself, you want to have a great time, or maybe you want to win $50,000. But you're not going to become famous out of this.

And no one listens. And they all come on. And, eventually, a week after it airs, they all start calling my office, saying, can you set me up with some meetings and, you know, can you make me famous?

COOPER: And now William Hung has made your job I think a lot more difficult, because now anyone, even if you have completely no talent, might be able to get a record deal, because that's just the amazing thing about how TV works.

KUNITZ: Well, he's definitely one of the rare ones. And he's more of a novelty act. He's not going to get your job.

COOPER: Well, who knows.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: How is it -- who is it who does make it? I was trying to think before you came on about what reality show contestants have really sort of continued on. And Richard Hatch comes to mind. But he's sort of faded.

KUNITZ: But he hasn't really continued on in an entertainment career.

There's very, very few people. There's Elisabeth, who is now a host on "The View." There's a couple people that have made it into soap operas. I can think, from "Real World," Jacinda Barrett has become an actress. but she didn't become an actress because she was on "The Real World." She became an actress because this is what her focus in life was. And she went and she studied acting. And she stopped doing challenges and stopped showing up to reunions and kind of said, I am going to put that reality world behind me and I'm really going to hone my craft. And she's a rare exception.

COOPER: And I guess if you knew the answer to this next question, you'd probably be more even successful than you already are, if that's even possible.

Where does reality TV go from here? It feels like everything has been done. And, of course, once you think it feels like that, someone comes up with something else and you say, gosh, why didn't I think of that?

KUNITZ: You know what? I think reality is going to be around for a long time. You look at sitcoms and dramas. And there's always going to be terrible sitcoms and terrible dramas, but there will be a few that rise to the top.

And I think the same will happen with reality. There's going to be great reality shows and there's going to be reality shows that just don't make it. But it's definitely a genre that is here to stay.

COOPER: And when you're casting, how much of it is looking for individuals? how much of it is looking for how those individuals will actually sort of blend and/or fight together? Do you look for a villain like Omarosa?

KUNITZ: Sure.

On a show like "Fear Factor," we are looking for huge characters. It's kind of like -- we say it's a little bit like the WWF. You want people you are going to either love or love to hate. You don't want someone that's in between. It's a show that is only going to last for an hour. These people are not going to be around from episode to episode. So you need characters that people can immediately relate to.

And either it's that person that I can't stand or I love that person. People at home are living vicariously through the contestants on the screen. So we give them a diverse group of people, so that everybody can hopefully relate to someone that they're watching.

COOPER: And I suppose now you are getting people who have grown up educated -- I mean, educated, if that's the word -- watching these reality shows. And so they sort of know how to play along. And I'm assuming that's something you don't really want, because it ends up not looking real.

KUNITZ: You mean the contestant knows how to play along?

COOPER: Yes, the contestants, yes

KUNITZ: Certainly.

When we did the first season of "Fear Factor," the contestants coming on the show had no idea what they were getting into. So you have got that true fear. And now everyone that applies is like, I love to go parachuting and bungee-jumping and scuba-diving. And I don't want that kind of contestant. I want to put ordinary people in extraordinary situations.

COOPER: And I guess you want people who really haven't seen the show, so they register that surprise.

KUNITZ: Well, unfortunately, at this point, that's impossible.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: That's impossible. Yes, that's true.

All right, Matt Kunitz, appreciate you joining us. Thanks. It was interesting.

KUNITZ: Thank you.

COOPER: All right, still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, "Look At It This Way," our weekly photography series from a man who most of you know from in front of the camera.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: When it comes to Hollywood, we tend to see our stars either 20 feet tall in a darkened room or 500 yards away through a telephoto lens, giving us, I suppose, a good angle on swashbuckling on the one hand and canoodling on the other, but little or none of what an actor's life is really about, none of the waiting, the anticipation, the loneliness in a crowd or the intimacy.

Tonight, an antidote, pictures you won't see in the tabloids or between the covers of a very special edition of "In Touch, "Us," "People" monthly. They are collected in a book and an exhibition, the work of photographer Jeff Bridges. Maybe you've heard of him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF BRIDGES, ACTOR: I'm interested in showing what it's like making movies from my particular spot, which is a little bit different than a still photographer or a guest on the set. In this shot of Peter, it's an actor's point of view of what it feels like to have the director lining up the shot. To me, the camera views the world more like our eye does. It seems to have almost a peripheral vision. So you'll have, you know, this group up here. Here's the director, Bill Richard (ph), with the prop guy and assistant director. And they're in a very intense conversation about this prop.

And then you have the script girl transferring her notes, these guys over here, the construction workers, having some conversation. There's Bianca (ph) waiting for them to get their act together, so they can get the shot.

You have a lot of different worlds on one negative. I'm kind of conflicted about how much about making movies I show, because I'm guilty of the very thing that I object to, which is behind the scenes, where they show how it's all made. And I'm hoping that it doesn't destroy the illusion too much and people still enjoy going to see these movies.

Here's a shot of Gil Combs (ph), my stuntman on a movie called "Fearless." He's standing on the edge of a building. He feels very safe because this man here is holding on to his foot.

(LAUGHTER)

BRIDGES: Michelle is a beautiful person to focus on. She was so spectacular in that role, sang so beautifully and pulled that part off so wonderfully.

And we took all day to light this shot, because the camera was on this huge boom here, had to do a complete 360 around this piano. And it was a perfect time to break out the old Widelux and shoot.

I use a Widelux camera, which is a panning still camera. It's a 28-millimeter lens that actually moves while you're taking the shot. One of the things that you can do with this camera, because of this slow panning aspect of it, is that I can include the same person in different expressions onto the one negative by moving the camera and having the person move. It's kind of my take on the Greek tragedy and comedy of masks.

Working with my dad, God, he was such a great, great guy. He loved show business so much, all aspects of it. He was so enthusiastic about it and taught my brother and me all the basics. And then, as an adult, I got to work with him twice in "Tucker" and also "Blown Away." And that was a real, real thrill.

Whenever he walked on the set, this joy would just permeate through the set and everybody's work would kind of raise up a notch, and say, oh, yes, this is fun, what we're doing.

There's one shot in this book that I included that I did not take. It's from "Seabiscuit," but I love the image. Many of those people in the stands were actually inflatable dolls. And so I had this image. I said, wouldn't it be great to get in amongst the inflatable dolls and challenge folks who look at the picture to say, where is Waldo in this shot? Where is Jeff?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: There he was.

Next, we'll update you on our top story and preview tomorrow.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A quick look at our top story.

President Bush was in the battleground state of Ohio today defending his economic policies. Trade was a central issue of his speech, a hot-button in a state which has lost more than 100,000 manufacturing jobs since Mr. Bush took office.

While he was making his case in the Rust Belt, his presumptive opponent, John Kerry, was laying into the president's handling of the economy and more. And so it goes.

Tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT, the big business in human body parts, hundreds of millions of dollars a year, all in the name of scientific research. But some people are profiting illegally from the sales. The scandal at UCLA is shining a light on it all.

That is NEWSNIGHT for tonight. Thanks for watching. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'll see you here tomorrow night. And I hope to see you as well at 7:00 p.m. Eastern time on "ANDERSON COOPER 360."

Coming up next for most of you, the man who just won't say my name.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com





Without Charges After 2 Years in Camp X-Ray>


Aired March 10, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: And good evening to you. I'm Anderson Cooper in for Aaron Brown who is on assignment in the Middle East.
The Rust Belt state of Ohio is gold in presidential politics. No Republican has ever won the White House without carrying Ohio and this year that means making a convincing case on the economy.

Unemployment in the state is higher than the national average and more than 100,000 manufacturing jobs have been lost in the last four years. So, you could say Mr. Bush was facing a tough crowd when he arrived in Ohio today, the state he won by just four percentage points four years ago.

The challenge of Ohio is where the whip begins. CNN's John King starts us off with a headline -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Anderson, the president acknowledged tough times in Ohio and tough emotions about the economy across the industrial heartland today but he also was quite defiant. He said those who criticize his trade policies are wrong, Mr. Bush also saying what his critics propose is "a recipe for economic disaster" -- Anderson.

COOPER: All right, back to you shortly John.

Next to Senator Kerry who is slugging away and doing a little trash talking to if you ask the opposition. CNN's Bob Franken on that for us tonight, Bob a headline.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And, Anderson, the Bush campaign is demanding that Kerry apologize, whatever for, well we'll just tell you in a moment.

COOPER: All right.

On to London where five inmates of the prison camp in Guantanamo Bay are home and apparently home free as well, CNN's Robyn Curnow with a story tonight and a headline -- Robyn.

ROBYN CURNOW, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Anderson. Five British terror suspects freed without charge after two years in Camp X-Ray -- back to you.

COOPER: Thanks, Robyn. Finally, Vancouver, hockey and repercussions from an especially brutal moment on the ice, CNN's Kimberly Osias is covering that tonight, Kimberly a headline from you.

KIMBERLY OSIAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Fighting in ice hockey is part of the game and why pay to see it but now it may have gone too far -- Anderson.

COOPER: There is fighting and then there is fighting. Kimberly thanks. Back to you and the rest shortly.

Also ahead tonight on the program what's with the fixation on reality shows around here, here, there and everywhere. Does it have something to do with the villains perhaps? We'll ask the producer of "Fear Factor." He ought to know.

And later, another of our "Look at it This Way" segments on still photography, tonight actor Jeff Bridges shows us what he's been doing for decades off camera, all that to come in the hour ahead.

We begin with the economy stupid. It is depending on the expert you ask, either on the mend, in a rut, both or well neither. Ask a political strategist, however, and you'll get a much simpler answer. It is key, both the reality of it and the perception, key in Michigan, in Missouri, in Pennsylvania and Ohio where the president spent some time today.

Here again CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): Thermagon is a Cleveland high tech company that exports 60 percent of its products. This presidential visit designed to make the point trade is part of the solution for a struggling jobs market not the problem.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Listen, the best product on any shelf anywhere in the world says "made in the USA."

KING: The president didn't name names but suggests critics who blame him for manufacturing jobs lost to cheap overseas labor markets will do the economy a lot more harm than good.

BUSH: That old policy of tax and spend is the enemy of job creation. The old policy of economic isolationism is a recipe for economic disaster.

KING: Mr. Bush's success in making this case could determine whether he has a job come January. Eight-five percent of Americans in a new CNN poll say keeping American jobs from going overseas will be important in their choice for president.

Democrat John Kerry supported the North American Free Trade Agreement and a similar pact with China but in appealing for union support, Senator Kerry now promises if elected to review all major trade deals. SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Bush thinks exporting our jobs is good economic policy. I believe that creating jobs here in America, keeping good jobs here and exporting goods is good for our economy.

KING: No Republican has ever won the White House without carrying Ohio, one of the big industrial states where the debate over trade and outsourcing is loudest. Ohio's unemployment rate if 6.2 percent and the state has lost more than 160,000 manufacturing jobs during the Bush presidency.

Mr. Bush says the pain would have been a lot worse if not for his push for more trade and big tax cuts and he says those who blame trade for tough times ignore reality.

Ninety-five percent of the world's consumers live outside the United States. One in five U.S. manufacturing jobs depends on exports and 6.4 million Americans work for foreign companies.

BUSH: Economic isolationism would lead to retaliation from abroad and put many of those jobs at risk.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: You might remember more than five months ago on Labor Day, the president promised to name an administration manufacturing czar. The White House says it is now poised to make that appointment. A Nebraska businessman is the frontrunner for that post.

Senator Kerry tonight saying though that's too little too late, in his words one new government bureaucrat, Anderson, won't make up for two and a half million lost manufacturing jobs.

COOPER: John, the Democrats of course point out President Bush's support for tariffs on steel. I guess the White House is not talking about that today.

KING: No, the White House is not and you see the flurry of e- mails back and forth between the campaigns. Neither President Bush's record or Senator Kerry's record is entirely consistent on this issue.

Senator Kerry has voted for trade deals. Now he says he would look at them. President Bush has been mostly a free trader but, you're exactly right, under political pressure he did impose temporary tariffs on steel.

This is a debate that is going to continue and, if you look at how close this election appears to be right now, it will be decided in those big industrial states, Ohio, Illinois, Pennsylvania and Michigan, more of this in the weeks and months ahead.

COOPER: Yes, John, it's a little bit off topic. Yesterday, Kerry was talking about proposing debates, issue oriented debates, you know, one on each issue in various states. Did the White House respond at all to that? KING: The White House has not responded officially. The Bush campaigns says it will think about debates down the road a little bit. The incumbent, of course, has a lot of leverage when it comes to scheduling the debates. Do not look for the president to agree to monthly debates at all.

Look for the negotiations around the conventions on maybe two or three debates in the fall but, again, that position will go back and forth and back and forth, probably mostly depending on the polls.

COOPER: Right. It's a game John Kerry knows well. He didn't debate Edwards at all so he's familiar with it I'm sure.

KING: That's right.

COOPER: All right, John King thanks at the White House.

On now to the opposition, again today, as John King mentioned in his report, Senator Kerry laid into the president's handling of the economy and more. He seems to be taking a page from the post Dukakis playbook which reads: "Don't wait for your opponent to define you and swing back when swung upon."

It's been making for plenty of sound bytes and today created one of those unscripted moments that people talk about the next day or, in this case, the same evening.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): John Kerry is clearly not pulling any punches about what his aides call the Bush campaign's deceit.

KERRY: These guys are the most crooked, you know, lying group that I've ever seen.

FRANKEN: This is just the most recent Kerry attack this month on foreign policy.

KERRY: I think George Bush has run the most arrogant, inept, reckless and ideological foreign policy in the modern history of our country.

FRANKEN: On the famous photo op.

KERRY: That George Bush thought he could just play dress-up on an aircraft carrier.

FRANKEN: On the president's plan for a Mars mission.

KERRY: Send Bush to Mars. There's another idea.

FRANKEN: On the issues, particularly the economy, Kerry believes he has the president on the defensive. KERRY: Ladies and gentlemen, it's got to be getting lonely for George Bush. It seems he's the last person left in America who actually believe his failed policies will ever work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: Kerry met with Howard Dean this afternoon and will get together with John Edwards tomorrow to coordinate the Democratic message, the Democratic assault -- Anderson.

COOPER: It does seem like that. All right, Bob. It was interesting seeing that video where he actually made the comments about the sort of crooked liars or lying as he called them. It looked like, I guess people were taking his mike off. Was it clear whether he intended that to go out over his microphone? Was that a mistake?

FRANKEN: This is not an amateur. I don't know. It doesn't look like it was a mistake. He knew he had an ear piece on. You could see that he was fumbling with it. I don't think that there is any effort here to try and soft peddle things. I believe the Democrats believe that their constituency is so strongly against President Bush that it's probably not a bad idea to try and keep the heat pretty intense.

COOPER: And it's going to get must more intense as the weeks and months progress. All right, Bob Franken thanks a lot.

Not all the swings are coming from across the political divide, we should point out, and some are narrowly focused. Tomorrow, a group that supported President Bush four years ago will launch the centerpiece of a $1 million ad campaign attacking the constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, which Mr. Bush has backed, the ad sponsored the Log Cabin Republicans, the ad itself unprecedented.

Here's CNN's Judy Woodruff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The fact of the matter is we live in a free society and freedom means freedom for everybody.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): The first television commercial ever from the nation's largest organization of gay Republicans, the Log Cabin Club, a million dollar campaign knocking a proposed constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage, the footage, Dick Cheney, weighing in at the 2000 vice presidential debate.

CHENEY: I think different states are likely to come to different conclusions and that's appropriate. I don't think there should necessarily be a federal policy in this area.

WOODRUFF: A view not shared today by the president.

BUSH: I call upon the Congress to promptly pass and to send to the states for ratification an amendment to our Constitution defining and protecting marriage as a union of a man and woman as husband and wife.

WOODRUFF: The Log Cabin Republicans who supported George W. Bush take pains not to mention him in their ad but they say they gave the White House fair warning.

PATRICK GUERRIERO, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, LOG CABIN REPUBLICANS: We made it clear to them though that if they were going to play politics, play political football with the American Constitution, we would have to react, to react strongly and that is what we've done.

WOODRUFF: From team Bush a tempered response: "We respect the differences of opinion in the Republican Party and we feel that during this election, the Republicans will unite behind the president on the big issues facing this country," and from the voice on the ad a show of solidarity.

CHENEY: He makes the decisions. He sets policy for the administration and I support him and the administration.

WOODRUFF: Where does that leave the Log Cabin Republicans, on the air with their ad and promising to reevaluate their support for President Bush at their convention in August.

Judy Woodruff, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Still ahead tonight on the program steroids in sports, can the Congress really do anything about it?

And in a violent sport, hockey, a shockingly violent attack, one that left a player hospitalized and could send another to jail.

And later on, we'll get to the bottom of why the people we really love on reality shows are the ones we hate.

From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Away from the campaign trail today, Republicans and Democrats are very much on the same page in a Senate hearing on the doping scandal in professional sports. Senators from both sides of the aisles hammered Major League Baseball and it's players' union for not cracking down on steroid abuse. They also threatened congressional action.

CNN's Joe Johns has details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Major League Baseball players now in spring training, also now on notice from Congress, get tougher on steroids. The head of the players association got an earful at this hearing.

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I can tell you and your players that you represent the status quo is not acceptable.

JOHNS: The heat is on baseball. Five to seven percent of tests on players last year came back positive for steroid use. Superstar Barry Bonds' personal trainer was charged with supplying steroids to athletes. Bonds denies using steroids. The Baseball Players Association has agreed to once a year random testing but says athletes still have rights.

DONALD FEHR, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYERS ASSOCIATION: We don't treat it lightly. We don't treat lightly the notion of searches without cause.

JOHNS: And the players also say random testing is an issue of privacy but not everyone agrees.

SEN. BYRON DORGAN (D), NORTH DAKOTA: The taking of steroids in private is designed specifically to affect your performance in public, specifically for that. There cannot possibly be a privacy issue here in my judgment.

JOHNS: Not all performance enhancing substances are illegal. Some are even available over the counter.

FEHR: You can't expect professional athletes to suggest that they somehow are different than anyone else and they can't go into a store and buy something that anyone else can buy.

JOHNS: But the commissioner of baseball says all should be banned.

BUD SELIG, MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL COMMISSIONER: Regardless of whether the substances are categorized as steroids or nutritional supplements.

JOHNS (on camera): A proposal to crack down on some of those substances is gaining momentum here but, in the end, Congress may be able to do little more than shine a light on the problem.

Joe Johns, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: On to another athlete in trouble. Safe to say hockey is the alpha dog of sports. No one really expects it to be tame. It pretty much defines contact sport. But contact is different from criminal assault, which brings us to the Vancouver Canucks and the Colorado Avalanche.

What happened on the ice Monday night may have been revenge for rough play in an earlier game between the two teams but whatever it was, it has set off a storm and called into question a defining feature of the sport.

Here's CNN's Kimberly Osias.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) OSIAS (voice-over): It was a full on ambush in the third period, a sucker punch to the head from behind, the Canuck 6'3", 245-pound Todd Bertuzzi jumped rookie Avalance forward Steve Moore forcing him face first into the ice.

MELODY ESCALLIER, CANADIAN RESIDENT: I was absolutely disgusted. I thought it was no better than a mugging actually.

OSIAS: Moore is in a Vancouver hospital with a broken neck, cuts on his face and a concussion. He'll miss the rest of the season. The severity of the attacks send shockwaves through the entire hockey community.

STEVE KONGWALCHUCK, COLORADO AVALANCHE PLAYER: It happens from time to time because injuries are part of the game but not that way. That's the hard part, not that severe.

OSIAS: Bertuzzi's career is on hold while the NHL debates his future. An announcement will be made at 9:00 Eastern time Thursday morning. Vancouver police are investigating. The all-star forward could face criminal charges. The last time there was such a highly publicized incident in hockey, Bertuzzi himself spoke out against violence on the ice.

TODD BERTUZZI, VANCOUVER CANUCKS FORWARD: It's disgusting what happened and it's unfortunate and the league's got to do something about it.

OSIAS: He was referring to this game in February of 2000 when Boston Bruins tough guy Marty McSorley whacked Canuck player Donald Brashear with his stick. McSorley was convicted in Canada of assault with a weapon but served no jail time. The league suspended him for a year and he never returned.

WAYNE BROWN, HOCKEY FAN: It put a bad eye on hockey right now. People don't want to see this kind of stuff. Fighting is a part of what hockey is and I don't think they'll ever get rid of that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

OSIAS: Todd Bertuzzi just had a press conference. Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BERTUZZI: To the fans of hockey and the fans of Vancouver, for the kids that watch this game I'm truly sorry. I don't play the game that way. I'm not a mean spirited person and I'm sorry for what happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

OSIAS: He also apologized to Steve Moore, to Moore's family and the entire Canuck organization -- Anderson.

COOPER: So, Kimberly, OK so he cried and he apologized. Did he explain?

OSIAS: Well, he didn't really offer a full explanation and obviously more will be coming to the fore as the days and the investigation continue.

COOPER: All right, Kimberly Osias thanks very much.

A couple other stories making news tonight, in Virginia a judge today imposed the sentence the jury recommended for convicted sniper Lee Boyd Malvo, life in prison without parole.

Mr. Malvo, now 19, was found guilty of course of capital murder and other charges in the death of an FBI analyst, one of just ten people killed and three wounded in the sniper attack that terrorized the Washington, D.C. area in the fall of 2002. It doesn't feel so long ago.

In Texas, a former university professor who set off a bioterrorism scare in January, 2003 was sentenced to two years in prison and fined $15,000. The scare began when he reported 30 vials of plague bacteria missing from his lab at Texas Tech. Later he said he had accidentally destroyed the samples, in the trial said he had no clear memory of doing so.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT freedom for some detainees as the British let five men who had been held at Guantanamo go free.

From NEWSNIGHT -- this is NEWSNIGHT from New York, be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well not more than a day after five Britons returned home from the detention camp at Guantanamo Bay all five are now apparently free and clear, quite a reversal from the worst of the worst to free to go and, as before, it is raising a lot of questions tonight.

So we go back to London and CNN's Robyn Curnow for details -- Robyn.

CURNOW: Hi there, Anderson.

Well, you're right. One day after they returned home after two years at Camp X-Ray in Cuba the final three British terror suspects have been released by anti-terror police here in Britain without charge. Earlier a fourth man was also released without charge.

Now they had been arrested when they arrived home on Tuesday by anti-terror police under Britain's terrorism act. They could have been held for 14 days without being charged but instead they are now free men after just one day in police custody. A fifth man who was part of that group was detained but not arrested when they arrived home.

Now all five men had been released by U.S. officials from Guantanamo Bay because they were considered low risk. British authorities obviously concurring with that saying these men are no longer terror suspects.

But, Anderson, as they make their way home tonight I'm sure many people in the local communities have mixed feelings, many people saying that they welcome these young men back saying they've always believed they were innocent.

However, other people in the local communities here in Britain saying that there's a big question mark over these men's heads. Just what were they doing in Afghanistan in the first place -- Anderson.

COOPER: Robyn, is there any sense that they will actually make public statements? I mean you say they're on their way home now. Do you know where they're going or when they will appear?

CURNOW: Police have said that they are escorting the men to locations of their choice at the moment so there is likely to be a great homecoming for these men after two years of not seeing their family.

Obviously, we also know that there is a chance that they'll be selling their stories to the national press. There's also the chance that they'll be thinking compensation from the U.S. and U.K. authorities. They say they were treated inhumanely and human rights lawyers here say that they could be awarded huge sums of money if they were found to have been imprisoned falsely -- Anderson.

COOPER: And there are still a number of British subjects being held at Guantanamo, am I correct in that?

CURNOW: You are correct in that, Anderson. There are four men still being held in Guantanamo Bay and their status is at the moment up to the U.S. authorities and it looks as if they will be charged or at least tried under the U.S. legal system at the moment.

COOPER: And how much attention are those four who are still in custody receiving in Great Britain? I understand their families have sort of come forward and say look they were just sort of caught up in events not of their choosing. The U.S. says something different.

CURNOW: There's been a huge public debate here in Britain about the fate of these men, many people saying that they've been treated inhumanely and against international law and, of course, the focus in the last few days, the last few weeks has been on these five men who were to be released. Now, of course, the focus shifts to the remaining four and their fate.

COOPER: All right, Robyn Curnow thanks very much from England, appreciate it.

The commander of the military's Southern Command today said U.S. Marines will be taking a more active role in trying to tamp down the violence in Haiti, no easy job that. Since Sunday they've shot and killed four Haitians, two of whom were killed today after opening fire on the prime minister's home in Port-au-Prince, not a good idea, rough work. And, in addition to trying to keep the peace there's the very naughty problem of reconstituting a government. Into that role today stepped a former government official and expatriate who has certainly got his work cut out for him.

Here's CNN's Harris Whitbeck.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Gerard Latortue arrived in Port-au-Prince to take on what may well be the toughest job in the country. The former diplomat and international business consultant left his home in Florida to return to the place he was born.

Designated as Haiti's provisional prime minister, he will try to end the bloodshed. Since Haiti's President Jean-Bertrand Aristide left the country February 29th, reprisal killings have racked the population.

GERARD LATORTUE, PROVISIONAL PRIME MINISTER OF HAITI: The top priority would be to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) security problem and I would like to see the foreign troops here will cooperate with the national police to help us, to help us disarm all those who have illegal arms in their hands.

WHITBECK: Latortue's got the help of a multinational interim force. U.S. Marines and the Haitian Police have been encouraging civilians to turn in their weapons, so far, however, no luck.

CHARLES GURGANUS, USMC: Nothing, we haven't found any. We have not found any.

WHITBECK: But the U.S. Southern Command said Marines would soon start looking for arms caches stored in private buildings in Port-au- Prince. Finding them will be difficult. U.N. officials say tens of thousands of weapons are floating around.

And heavily armed rebel groups that appeared shortly before Aristide's departure say they will only lay down their weapons if the international force protects civilians from the violence.

The new prime ministers says while he makes security a priority he will also look into reconstituting the Haitian Army that was disbanded by Aristide in 1995.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WHITBECK: And that could spark even more fear among at least part of the population. The Haitian Army was responsible for massive human rights violations and many of its victims were Aristide supporters -- Anderson.

COOPER: Harris, how bad or good is the security right now, at least in Port-au-Prince where you are? Can you travel around? I mean can you go to City Soleil? Can you got to some of these areas? Are there police on the street or Marines?

WHITBECK: The presence of police and Marines is pretty spotty, Anderson. (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Soleil is pretty much off limits. You know we have been warned that if we go there we could get into trouble. As you know that's a very, very large slum, a lot of tension there, a lot of Aristide supporters there, so we have to be very careful.

Now there is another demonstration that has been slated for tomorrow morning. Now there are a lot of people taking a close look at that because they don't want a repeat of what happened last Sunday when a demonstration in front of the presidential palace was fired upon.

The fact that there's a new prime minister in town and that he will be taking office tomorrow has some people concerned that those who are against his taking office, those who support Aristide, might try to take some sort of action on the street, so it's still a bit dicey here -- Anderson.

COOPER: And, Harris, I mean we saw in your report some people walking around with AK-47s, automatic weapons. Some of the people you described as some of the rebels. I mean are they visible on the street on a daily basis walking around with guns or is it more sort of they're behind closed doors just kind of waiting?

WHITBECK: They're not as visible as they had been before the multinational interim force came in but there are a lot of weapons on the street. As you know, Anderson, you've been here a lot, you know there are tens of thousands of weapons literally in the hands of many civilians here and people who aren't afraid to use those weapons.

So, what the U.S. Marines and other members of the multinational force are going to try to do now is go beyond simply asking people to turn in their weapons. They're actually going to start going into some of the neighborhoods where they believe that weapons might be stored.

COOPER: It's history repeating itself. That was done back in 1994.

All right, Harris Whitbeck, thanks very much. Stay safe.

A couple more items from around the world before we take a break, both a bit more hopeful than the goings-on in Haiti.

First stop, Lahore, Pakistan, and the arrival of India's cricket team -- yes, cricket team, another sign of a thaw in relations between the countries, a small one, perhaps. But then again, cricket fans take it very seriously. And there are a lot of them in both countries and around the world, for that matter. They'll meet on the pitch on Saturday, tight security and all.

And in Japan, they're now ready for the moment when Vaudeville rhinos go bad. This is not a reality show. After training for months using Vaudeville horses, officials gave the OK for the real thing, or the fake real thing, or the real fake thing. Several people were gored, but they managed to get the situation under control by pretending to use a stun gun on the guy playing the back two legs. All right, we have had our fun.

It's a earthquake drill at the Tokyo Zoo, in case a real rhino ever gets out of control. Let's hope it doesn't.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, who is telling the truth? The Republicans argue the economy is much better, while the Democrats say things are still terrible. Can both be right? We'll try to get some answer when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Woman discovers fingertip in salad?

All right, more now on the economy. The lumpy recovery, the exporting of America, however you put it, almost certain to be the issue one in the campaign, it seems, even with troops abroad and dangers here at home.

With us tonight to sort it all out is James Surowiecki, who writes about business markets and more for "The New Yorker" magazine.

Good to see you. Thanks for being with us.

JAMES SUROWIECKI, "THE NEW YORKER": Thanks for having me on.

COOPER: How is the economy doing? Kind of a stupid question. But depending on whom you ask, you get different answers.

SUROWIECKI: Well, it's really a mixed bag.

On the one hand, economic growth has been very strong over the last, let's say nine months. Two quarters ago, it was awesome. It was 2.8 percent, GDP growth. But employment is basically flat. There have been essentially almost no jobs created.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Right, 21,000 in the last month.

SUROWIECKI: In the last month.

COOPER: Right.

SUROWIECKI: And the economy really needs to create somewhere between 150,000 and 200,000 jobs just to keep up with population growth and to keep the same number of people employed.

COOPER: And why is that? Is there one reason or I would assume it's a multitude?

SUROWIECKI: It's a multitude of reasons, I think.

I think one of the big reasons, obviously, is that this whole thing started with the bubble of the late '90s. So employment was probably higher than it would normally have been, because there were a lot of businesses that got started because...

COOPER: A lot of venture capital firms putting money into

(CROSSTALK)

SUROWIECKI: There was lot of money that was cheap, and so people started businesses. A lot of those are gone.

Businesses hired a lot of people that they no longer have business for. But I think part of it also is that businesses are very cautious and they remain very cautious. And they have gotten a lot quicker than in the past at firing people when the economy starts to slow down. And they have gotten a lot slower about hiring people when the economy starts to pick back up.

COOPER: Which I guess there's an argument that that -- some people I guess would argue that's good for the economy, that businesses are sort of on top of things?

(CROSSTALK)

SUROWIECKI: Right.

And it's good in the since that what it means is that everybody is working at pretty much their full capacity, if you will, that workers are much more productive than they've ever been.

The other amazing thing about the recovery has been that productivity is incredibly high. And there really has been a real shift in productivity growth. And that's really important for the economy.

COOPER: So the situation you describe is one where both the Republicans and Democrats can be describing the economy in completely divergent ways and yet both sort of be accurate in some ways.

SUROWIECKI: In some ways, yes.

But I do think that employment question, there's one other aspect that we haven't really talked about. And that is that there probably was not enough done to spur demand and to get the economy jump-started when it went into recession. There are certain things -- the Federal Reserve has been fantastic. It slashed interest rates and has kept interest rates incredibly low.

As you know, if you want to take out a home equity loan...

COOPER: Or refinance.

SUROWIECKI: Or refinance, it's crazy how they're basically giving money away.

COOPER: And that has spurred a lot -- just the whole refinancing alone has spurred parts of the economy (CROSSTALK)

SUROWIECKI: Absolutely. It's certainly kept people buying in terms of customer goods. But it's also -- home construction has been up. Home buying is up, all this kind of stuff.

But the other thing you can do, the government can do, is fiscal policy. And there, I think, we really have done a pretty bad job.

COOPER: But President Bush says that the tax cuts have spurred the economy.

SUROWIECKI: Right.

I think obviously any tax cut in general has a good -- has a less than -- it's not going to have a negative effect. The problem was that I think the Bush tax cuts were primarily long-term tax cuts. They're mostly back-loaded, so most of the Bush tax cuts are going to come in after like 2006.

COOPER: Do you agree with John Kerry who says they impacted more for richer people?

SUROWIECKI: Well, we certainly know they impacted more for richer people. That's just -- the numbers clearly bear that out.

And the reason that matters is just that rich people are more likely to take that money and invest it. That's good for the economy in the long term. But in terms of giving the economy a kind of kick in the pants, it doesn't really do that.

COOPER: But how much can a president really do to spur an economy? You can talk about it. You can kind of massage it. You can kind put ointment on it.

SUROWIECKI: Sure.

COOPER: But can you really fix it?

SUROWIECKI: No. I think it's unrealistic to expect a president to be fully responsible.

On the other hand, let's face it. If job growth were fantastic, we know the administration would be claiming credit.

COOPER: You think?

SUROWIECKI: No doubt.

(LAUGHTER)

SUROWIECKI: And I do think that the administration, they did have this window, say, from 2001 to 2002, when the economy went into recession, and the choice to do certain things that they might have done. And, instead, they chose to follow what I think was a less successful tack, which was these long-term tax cuts targeted primarily at the very wealthy.

COOPER: And the economy, I guess, what, the hope now that it just rights itself?

SUROWIECKI: Yes, I think that's basically what -- if you listened to Bush's speech today -- he gave a speech in Ohio. And if you listened to it, a lot of what he said about the economy, that the American economy is -- that productivity growth is good and that free trade is good, all those things I think are right.

But he can't really make a case for his own economic policy, because we've lost 2.4 million jobs since he came into office. And whether he's responsible for that or not, what we know is that he's not done the job to fix it, basically.

COOPER: All right, we'll leave it there. James Surowiecki, thanks very much.

SUROWIECKI: Thank for having me on.

(CROSSTALK)

COOPER: Enjoy your writing.

SUROWIECKI: Thanks.

COOPER: Well, a few more business items before we go to break in our "Moneyline Roundup" tonight.

Spam starts it off. Leading Internet providers today teamed up to fight it. Microsoft, EarthLink, AOL and others jointly filing federal lawsuits against spammers in a number of states. This is the first time competitors have gotten together to take advantage of new federal legislation that makes it easier to go after spammers; $43 billion, container ships, that is the latest monthly total trade deficit between the United States and rest of the world. It is also the largest such deficit on record.

That said, the number had little effect on markets. They were already in the tank. For the Dow, which got dinged for 160 points, it was enough to drive the index into the red for the year so far.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, on to something real, reality TV that is a look at why the villains are often the best parts.

James, you can stick around for that if you want.

We'll be right back. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: Well, it has become the ultimate consolation prize for those who fail to make the cut in that ever-expanding corner of popular culture. When reality bites, Hollywood steps in.

After getting the boots, the agents start calling, at least for a little bit. Even the least likable losers, the one everyone loves to hate, get wooed. Omarosa, for example, she was fired by Donald Trump, fired on last week's episode of "The Apprentice." She cried. It didn't work. She got fired. Now she says she's fielding offers to host a talk show. I have my doubts, but that's what she says.

What is up with us? Matt Kunitz should know. He's the executive producer of "Fear Factor." He joins us now from Los Angeles.

Matt, thanks for being on the program.

MATT KUNITZ, EXECUTIVE PRODUCER, "FEAR FACTOR": Thanks for having me.

COOPER: First of all, does a woman like Omarosa have a future in TV or is it impossible to predict?

KUNITZ: I would say the odds are slim.

I've seen hundreds and hundreds of reality contestants come on the shows, whether it be "Real World" or "Fear Factor." And after they have their 15 minutes of fame, they all another to just push it for that 16, 17 minutes. And I could count on one hand the few people that have probably actually made a career out of it.

COOPER: And explain the process of why that happens. What is that transformation? Because I know when you're recruiting people, when you are auditioning people to be on these shows, you're not looking for people who want to be actors, because those are the people you kind of don't really want.

KUNITZ: Right.

No, we avoid actors. And we tell everyone when we're casting them that, don't come on this show to become famous. It's a not going to happen. On a show like "Fear Factor," come on the show because you want to challenge yourself, you want to have a great time, or maybe you want to win $50,000. But you're not going to become famous out of this.

And no one listens. And they all come on. And, eventually, a week after it airs, they all start calling my office, saying, can you set me up with some meetings and, you know, can you make me famous?

COOPER: And now William Hung has made your job I think a lot more difficult, because now anyone, even if you have completely no talent, might be able to get a record deal, because that's just the amazing thing about how TV works.

KUNITZ: Well, he's definitely one of the rare ones. And he's more of a novelty act. He's not going to get your job.

COOPER: Well, who knows.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: How is it -- who is it who does make it? I was trying to think before you came on about what reality show contestants have really sort of continued on. And Richard Hatch comes to mind. But he's sort of faded.

KUNITZ: But he hasn't really continued on in an entertainment career.

There's very, very few people. There's Elisabeth, who is now a host on "The View." There's a couple people that have made it into soap operas. I can think, from "Real World," Jacinda Barrett has become an actress. but she didn't become an actress because she was on "The Real World." She became an actress because this is what her focus in life was. And she went and she studied acting. And she stopped doing challenges and stopped showing up to reunions and kind of said, I am going to put that reality world behind me and I'm really going to hone my craft. And she's a rare exception.

COOPER: And I guess if you knew the answer to this next question, you'd probably be more even successful than you already are, if that's even possible.

Where does reality TV go from here? It feels like everything has been done. And, of course, once you think it feels like that, someone comes up with something else and you say, gosh, why didn't I think of that?

KUNITZ: You know what? I think reality is going to be around for a long time. You look at sitcoms and dramas. And there's always going to be terrible sitcoms and terrible dramas, but there will be a few that rise to the top.

And I think the same will happen with reality. There's going to be great reality shows and there's going to be reality shows that just don't make it. But it's definitely a genre that is here to stay.

COOPER: And when you're casting, how much of it is looking for individuals? how much of it is looking for how those individuals will actually sort of blend and/or fight together? Do you look for a villain like Omarosa?

KUNITZ: Sure.

On a show like "Fear Factor," we are looking for huge characters. It's kind of like -- we say it's a little bit like the WWF. You want people you are going to either love or love to hate. You don't want someone that's in between. It's a show that is only going to last for an hour. These people are not going to be around from episode to episode. So you need characters that people can immediately relate to.

And either it's that person that I can't stand or I love that person. People at home are living vicariously through the contestants on the screen. So we give them a diverse group of people, so that everybody can hopefully relate to someone that they're watching.

COOPER: And I suppose now you are getting people who have grown up educated -- I mean, educated, if that's the word -- watching these reality shows. And so they sort of know how to play along. And I'm assuming that's something you don't really want, because it ends up not looking real.

KUNITZ: You mean the contestant knows how to play along?

COOPER: Yes, the contestants, yes

KUNITZ: Certainly.

When we did the first season of "Fear Factor," the contestants coming on the show had no idea what they were getting into. So you have got that true fear. And now everyone that applies is like, I love to go parachuting and bungee-jumping and scuba-diving. And I don't want that kind of contestant. I want to put ordinary people in extraordinary situations.

COOPER: And I guess you want people who really haven't seen the show, so they register that surprise.

KUNITZ: Well, unfortunately, at this point, that's impossible.

(LAUGHTER)

COOPER: That's impossible. Yes, that's true.

All right, Matt Kunitz, appreciate you joining us. Thanks. It was interesting.

KUNITZ: Thank you.

COOPER: All right, still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, "Look At It This Way," our weekly photography series from a man who most of you know from in front of the camera.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: When it comes to Hollywood, we tend to see our stars either 20 feet tall in a darkened room or 500 yards away through a telephoto lens, giving us, I suppose, a good angle on swashbuckling on the one hand and canoodling on the other, but little or none of what an actor's life is really about, none of the waiting, the anticipation, the loneliness in a crowd or the intimacy.

Tonight, an antidote, pictures you won't see in the tabloids or between the covers of a very special edition of "In Touch, "Us," "People" monthly. They are collected in a book and an exhibition, the work of photographer Jeff Bridges. Maybe you've heard of him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF BRIDGES, ACTOR: I'm interested in showing what it's like making movies from my particular spot, which is a little bit different than a still photographer or a guest on the set. In this shot of Peter, it's an actor's point of view of what it feels like to have the director lining up the shot. To me, the camera views the world more like our eye does. It seems to have almost a peripheral vision. So you'll have, you know, this group up here. Here's the director, Bill Richard (ph), with the prop guy and assistant director. And they're in a very intense conversation about this prop.

And then you have the script girl transferring her notes, these guys over here, the construction workers, having some conversation. There's Bianca (ph) waiting for them to get their act together, so they can get the shot.

You have a lot of different worlds on one negative. I'm kind of conflicted about how much about making movies I show, because I'm guilty of the very thing that I object to, which is behind the scenes, where they show how it's all made. And I'm hoping that it doesn't destroy the illusion too much and people still enjoy going to see these movies.

Here's a shot of Gil Combs (ph), my stuntman on a movie called "Fearless." He's standing on the edge of a building. He feels very safe because this man here is holding on to his foot.

(LAUGHTER)

BRIDGES: Michelle is a beautiful person to focus on. She was so spectacular in that role, sang so beautifully and pulled that part off so wonderfully.

And we took all day to light this shot, because the camera was on this huge boom here, had to do a complete 360 around this piano. And it was a perfect time to break out the old Widelux and shoot.

I use a Widelux camera, which is a panning still camera. It's a 28-millimeter lens that actually moves while you're taking the shot. One of the things that you can do with this camera, because of this slow panning aspect of it, is that I can include the same person in different expressions onto the one negative by moving the camera and having the person move. It's kind of my take on the Greek tragedy and comedy of masks.

Working with my dad, God, he was such a great, great guy. He loved show business so much, all aspects of it. He was so enthusiastic about it and taught my brother and me all the basics. And then, as an adult, I got to work with him twice in "Tucker" and also "Blown Away." And that was a real, real thrill.

Whenever he walked on the set, this joy would just permeate through the set and everybody's work would kind of raise up a notch, and say, oh, yes, this is fun, what we're doing.

There's one shot in this book that I included that I did not take. It's from "Seabiscuit," but I love the image. Many of those people in the stands were actually inflatable dolls. And so I had this image. I said, wouldn't it be great to get in amongst the inflatable dolls and challenge folks who look at the picture to say, where is Waldo in this shot? Where is Jeff?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: There he was.

Next, we'll update you on our top story and preview tomorrow.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: A quick look at our top story.

President Bush was in the battleground state of Ohio today defending his economic policies. Trade was a central issue of his speech, a hot-button in a state which has lost more than 100,000 manufacturing jobs since Mr. Bush took office.

While he was making his case in the Rust Belt, his presumptive opponent, John Kerry, was laying into the president's handling of the economy and more. And so it goes.

Tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT, the big business in human body parts, hundreds of millions of dollars a year, all in the name of scientific research. But some people are profiting illegally from the sales. The scandal at UCLA is shining a light on it all.

That is NEWSNIGHT for tonight. Thanks for watching. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'll see you here tomorrow night. And I hope to see you as well at 7:00 p.m. Eastern time on "ANDERSON COOPER 360."

Coming up next for most of you, the man who just won't say my name.

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Without Charges After 2 Years in Camp X-Ray>