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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Rumsfeld Testifies Before Congress; More Fighting Around Najaf

Aired May 07, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
The worst is yet to come. That's what the secretary of defense indicated today before the Congress. There are more pictures, many more, and there are videos too and they depict scenes, according to Mr. Rumsfeld, worse than anything we've seen so far.

So should they be seen? Indeed, should the original photos have been seen at all? It will not surprise you to know that to me the answer is clearly yes but I put the question out there tonight after reading a piece today by Jonah Goldberg, who will join us on Monday.

In the piece, Mr. Goldberg, the conservative columnist, argues that CBS, which aired these pictures first and then the rest of us should have sat on them because of the damage they have done. He correctly notes we withhold pictures all the time, people jumping out of the World Trade Center, for example.

Again, he'll join us on Monday to argue his point fully. We'll argue ours in two sentences. You don't appreciate what happened in that prison until you see it. No one did and now the world will judge us not simply by the pictures but how we handled those who were participants in the degradation of people who had no power at all.

The whip begins with the defense secretary's defense, Donald Rumsfeld on the Hill today, quite a day, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon again tonight, Jamie a headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, was it me last night who said don't expect too much contrition from Defense Secretary Rumsfeld? Well, he was contrite and apologetic but also argumentative and he warned that some of the things we don't know about the abuse are, his words, "radioactive."

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. We'll get back to you in a bit.

About six hours of testimony in all, lots of tough questions. Did the defense secretary mend any fences on the Hill? Joe Johns is there for us tonight, so Joe a headline.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a lot of people here on Capitol Hill are very glad Rumsfeld apologized, especially Republicans, but it does not appear that these hearings today put a rest to the questions of whether Rumsfeld should resign -- Aaron.

BROWN: Joe, thank you.

On to Iraq, more fighting there today in the flashpoint city of Najaf a day after U.S. troops took over the governor's office. Jane Arraf has been there now for a while and is there tonight, Jane a headline.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, followers of radical leader Muqtada al-Sadr continue to attack U.S. forces and, in the mosque on Friday, the Shia leader himself gets some mileage out of those photos saying that President Bush and other leaders should stand trial in Iraq over them.

BROWN: Jane, thank you.

And finally an American lawyer being held in Portland, Oregon in connection with the Madrid terrorist bombings, a fascinating story this. Ted Rowlands is there, Ted a headline.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that American lawyer remains in federal custody tonight. His family and friends are speaking out saying that he is a target because he's a practicing Muslim -- Aaron.

BROWN: Ted, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest in a moment.

Also on the program on this Friday night, the woman in the photos, the photos, Private First Class Lynndie England who she is and the charges she now faces.

Plus the morning after pill now not available the morning after, at least not over the counter, why some say the FDA bowed to political pressure.

And it's Friday and the rooster's favorite day for papers because it always includes the tabloids and just may include a batboy update, you never know, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with the defense secretary's day on Capitol Hill, a long day, a tough day. Going into it many Senators and Congressmen believed the secretary kept them in the dark about the prison abuse in Iraq and the investigation. It showed in the questioning about how far up and down the chain of command the problems lie, in short where the buck starts and where it stops.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): From the moment Senator John Warner opened the Senate hearing its importance and its resonance to past scandals was clear.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: The questions before us today are who knew what and when? What did they do about it?

BROWN: The secretary of defense, flanked by his top military chiefs, wasted no time taking responsibility. DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: These events occurred on my watch. As secretary of defense I am accountable for them and I take full responsibility.

BROWN: And apologizing to the victims.

RUMSFELD: I feel terrible about what happened to these Iraqi detainees. They're human beings. They were in U.S. custody. Our country had an obligation to treat them right. We didn't and that was wrong.

So, to those Iraqis who were mistreated by members of the U.S. Armed Forces I offer my deepest apology. It was inconsistent with the values of our nation. It was inconsistent with the teachings of the military to the men and women of the armed forces and it was certainly fundamentally un-American.

BROWN: Rumsfeld went further saying that he intended to seek financial compensation for Iraqi victims and agreeing that Iraq should consider destroying the prison as an important symbolic gesture. He defended the military's handling of the complaints of mistreatment.

RUMSFELD: The idea that this is a story that was broken by the media is simply not the fact. This was presented by the Central Command to the world.

BROWN: And he promised that future investigations would go all the way up the line.

RUMSFELD: It does not matter one wit where the responsibility falls. It falls where it does.

BROWN: In the face of questions that he had not informed the Congress of the ongoing public relations disaster, he made it clear that he had not realized the impact of the photographs and so failed to brief the president and the Congress properly.

RUMSFELD: If there's a failure it's me. It's my failure for not understanding and knowing that there were hundreds or however many there are of these things that could eventually end up in the public and do the damage they've done.

BROWN: And he warned ominously there was more to come, more and worse.

RUMSFELD: There are other photos, many other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman and I'm advised there also are videos of these actions.

BROWN: The famously pugnacious Rumsfeld even admitted he would consider stepping down.

RUMSFELD: Needless to say, if I felt I could not be effective I'd resign in a minute. I would not resign simply because people try to make a political issue out of it. BROWN: Hours later as this long day of hearings first in the Senate and then the House drew to a close he made it clear, however, that there was still a spark of the old Rumsfeld left.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know there are some people out there on the political bandwagon but in this committee...

RUMSFELD: There's the understatement of the morning.

BROWN: Through it all, the secretary defended the military and the American people.

RUMSFELD: We're having an open process in prosecuting the people who have done something wrong. The world is seeing what a democracy does. The world is seeing how people who care about human rights behave.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The secretary before the Congress today. As you heard, even as he apologized the secretary dropped a bombshell, within the Pentagon there is more, more photographs, videotapes, perhaps more to tarnish the country in the eyes of the world, at the very least more to investigate and explain.

With that side of the story here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): The revelation that there are many more photographs, even videotapes said to show prisoner abuse described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman, resulted in an ominous warning.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Apparently, the worst is yet to come potentially in terms of disturbing events.

MCINTYRE: But there are no plans to release them.

RUMSFELD: If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse. That's just a fact. I mean I looked at them last night and they're hard to believe.

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld said it was his personal failure not to insist on seeing the pictures months ago.

RUMSFELD: I say no one in the Pentagon had seen them and they were part of that investigative process. It is the photographs that gives one the vivid realization of what actually took place. Words don't do it.

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld still hasn't seen the videos but a report by an army general who investigated the abuse gives a hint of what's on them. It refers to "videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees" and "forcing male detainees to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped." Rumsfeld's critics say it's a mistake to allow the bad news to dribble out. SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: With all due respect to investigations ongoing and panels being appointed, the American people deserve immediate and full disclosure of all relevant information so that we can be assured and comforted that something that we never believed could happen will never happen again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Among the abuse still under investigation, beatings, a possible murder and the rape of a female Iraqi prisoner by an American MP, allegations that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld today described as radioactive in their strategic impact -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, as we sit here talking tonight, seven soldiers are facing criminal charges, is that correct?

MCINTYRE: That's correct.

BROWN: Do you know the highest rank of those seven soldiers?

MCINTYRE: They're all sergeants or below and the investigation of those who are higher up in the chain of command is continuing but we've yet to see any results of that.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you very much for a splendid week of work. Thank you Jamie McIntyre.

Apology or not today, Secretary Rumsfeld also made it clear that he serves at the pleasure of the president not that of the Congress. All the same, a president cannot secure funding for the military in a war with a radioactive defense secretary. Consequently, much of Mr. Rumsfeld's mission today was about mending fences, so did he succeed? Too soon to tell perhaps, save the early review.

So, from Capitol Hill tonight, here's CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): After the hearing, Senator John McCain said he was unhappy with Rumsfeld's answers but was withholding judgment on whether the defense secretary should go.

MCCAIN: I still think it would be premature to call for the secretary's removal.

JOHNS: The senior Republican on the committee and the top Republican in the Senate both voiced confidence in Rumsfeld but said the decision was not theirs to make.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), ARMED SERVICES CHMN.: That's a question that's subjective and the secretary in consultation with the president, if that comes about, should answer and I indicated this morning very clearly I intend to support my president in his decision.

JOHNS: Still, Senator Edward Kennedy added his voice to the growing chorus of Democrats who want Rumsfeld out. SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I think the president of the United States should fire the Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld. I think we need a new beginning. I think we need a new secretary of defense.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Rumsfeld did get some support from Democrat Joe Lieberman who said no one had apologized for killing Americans in Iraq. No Republican so far has called for Rumsfeld's resignation. Privately, some Republicans do worry how he will be able to survive this if more pictures and even videos come out -- Aaron.

BROWN: Is there, and this happens in Washington, is this that kind of uncomfortable waiting time to see how the public reacts to what happened today and what may happen tomorrow?

JOHNS: It certainly is especially what may happen tomorrow. Of course, you really can't gauge what the public will do until they see pictures like the ones they've seen over the last week. So, a number of Senators are saying they'll just have to wait and see.

Still, even Republicans are just not sure Rumsfeld will be able to weather this. We have to remind viewers, of course, that the president has put his full support behind Rumsfeld -- Aaron.

BROWN: Yes, he has. He did so yesterday. Thank you, Joe, Joe Johns who's on the Hill tonight.

Among those questioning the secretary and the generals with him today was Mark Pryor, the freshman Senator from Arkansas, who serves on the Senate Armed Services Committee and we spoke with the Senator late this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator, the defense secretary today said he accepts responsibility. What is he accepting responsibility for exactly?

SEN. MARK PRYOR (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, that's a good question. You know, he came in today. I felt like he was contrite. He, you know, apologized and did accept responsibility.

I think there's a reality about this story though that doesn't go away and that is these horrible pictures and now we hear there may be a videotape that comes out and, you know, this is something that will, you know, haunt the U.S. for a long time.

When we look back 20 years from now and look back at the Iraqi War, probably the most memorable photographs will be from this prison and not from what our brave men and women in uniform have done.

BROWN: Do you understand yet why neither the chairman of the Joint Chiefs nor the defense secretary had read the report or saw the pictures before they were broadcast? PRYOR: I do not understand that. In fact, my questions today were about that, about all the surprises that we continually go through here in the Congress about Iraq and whether it's the troop strength, whether it's the dollars involved and now whether it's this prison story, you know, it's just one surprise after another.

BROWN: Do you suspect or do you believe that what they characterized back in January as an investigation that they were characterizing something that they saw or wanted you to believe was essentially routine when clearly it was not routine?

PRYOR: It's hard to know exactly what they knew, when they knew it and all that because we just don't know yet but we do know that repeatedly the International Red Cross had contacted the Department of Defense about doing something about this prison and that's very discouraging for us to hear to know that it was an ongoing problem.

BROWN: Do you think, sir, that had there not been the pictures that -- obviously the pictures have an enormous international impact on the country and probably domestic impact also but were it not for the pictures that the Pentagon would have handled this very differently?

PRYOR: It's very possible. You know the pictures just make this a very real story. I mean, you know, they'll say a picture is worth a thousand words. You can write about this and talk about this all you want but when you're able to show a picture, you know, it's very powerful.

That's actually the -- you know one of the strengths of the medium of television but we don't have one picture here. We have thousands of pictures maybe, even a videotape. So, you know, this changes the dimension of this story.

BROWN: So, the question now I think becomes what do we do? What do you in the Senate do? What does the Pentagon do? Has the defense secretary lost the moral high ground to lead?

PRYOR: That's a great question. I'm not one who is calling for his resignation. I know there are a few that are but I'm not one of those. I think it's imperative that this administration act very swiftly and decisively on this story. It has a long term negative effect around the world in that region and inside Iraq. It also has a negative effect for U.S. moral about this war.

BROWN: Senator, we appreciate very much your time on a Friday.

PRYOR: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you. Have a good weekend.

PRYOR: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator Mark Pryor, we talked with him late this afternoon.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT on this Friday we shift the focus to Iraq itself and the radical cleric who has not gone away nor the problems he brings with him.

And the woman in the middle of the prison scandal, Private First Class Lynndie England, her story too, a break first.

From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The prison abuse scandal made its way into at least one mosque in Iraq today. In his weekly sermon, the rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr said President Bush's apology is not enough and that those who committed the abuse should be punished the same way in the same place. Al-Sadr gave the sermon in a mosque in Kufa. Nearby in Najaf, al-Sadr's forces fought again with U.S. troops.

Here again, CNN's Jane Arraf on the videophone -- Jane.

ARRAF (via videophone): Aaron, (unintelligible) devastating (unintelligible) are still being felt out here. Muqtada al-Sadr, this radical Shia cleric has (unintelligible) Friday prayers in the mosque in Kufa said that those responsible, the U.S. soldiers as well as President Bush and those in his service should come to Iraq and stand trial over those photos.

He also said that he remained defiant in the face of U.S. military forces here, would continue to travel between the mosque and Kufa and the holy city in Najaf. Indeed, his followers, his armed followers continue their ambushes on U.S. forces, three ambushes today around Najaf. The U.S. military fought back and killed more than 20 suspected militia members -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jane, does it -- you're I think the last TV crew there. Do you get the sense at all that this is moving to an end or is this going to drag on for weeks and weeks?

ARRAF: It could possibly drag on for weeks but the feeling is I think on all sides, Aaron, that it would be much better to have it drag on a little bit to do this slowly than to move in with any haste and risk imploding this place. It's already a very tense, a very delicate situation.

The U.S. is continuing military pressure starting for the first time to fight back with mortars and last night and the night before last a 500-pound bomb dropped on a mortar position. So, far its very careful about what weapons it uses as well as political pressure.

They're bringing a U.S.-installed governor here and they're hoping that will put pressure on Iraqis to solve the problem themselves -- Aaron.

BROWN: Is there -- have there been in the last day or so any American casualties there? ARRAF: There have not and it's an interesting indication of how this fight is going. Essentially one of the hardest things, as you know, for U.S. forces to fight is unconventional warfare and basically what we have are several hundred, maybe in the high hundreds militia members who are conducting ambushes, hit and run.

Now what that means is when they ambush the U.S. troops and the U.S. troops are staying well away from the holy shrine, the troops fight back and they manage to kill a lot of militia members without sustaining any casualties themselves usually but they keep coming.

These militia members keep coming with rocket-propelled grenades, mortar attacks, despite the fact that they're outnumbered, outmanned. They feel that they have support on their side and they're keeping up these attacks -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jane, take care of yourself out there, Jane Arraf in Najaf tonight.

ARRAF: Thank you.

BROWN: Farther north closer to Baghdad, insurgents attacked a Polish television crew today killing two of the journalists, one of the victims, a well known war correspondent. It is, of course, another reminder that these are dangerous days in Iraq for everyone, especially westerners.

"Time" magazine's Simon Robinson joins us again tonight from Baghdad. It's good to see you. Just in terms of I guess all that has happened over the last year, the troublesome things that have happened, how difficult a problem has the prison story been? How much worse has it made the situation?

SIMON ROBINSON, "TIME" MAGAZINE CORRESPONDENT: I think it's been very bad and it comes obviously at a very delicate time in the lead up to the handover in late June to the Iraqis of some sort of limited sovereignty over their country.

So, it comes at a time when the U.S. had thought that they dealt with the problem in Fallujah or they found a solution that seems to be sticking at least for now and then these photos hit, so it certainly hit the coalition here and they're in damage control and the Iraqi people are obviously very upset as we've heard over the last week about what they've seen.

BROWN: Did it -- has it hit with the intensity that the original assault on Fallujah hit with or the closing down of the newspaper hit with?

ROBINSON: The newspapers have been full of this and it's been -- it's talked about on the streets pretty much constantly since those photos first broke and people were glued to their television stations last night to hear the secretary of defense's testimony before the lawmakers.

BROWN: And how did it play? Any sense yet? ROBINSON: Well, I think it's probably too early to tell. It obviously went on for many hours and it's interesting. I think it's probably an interesting lesson for a lot of Iraqis in how the system works in the U.S. and they're probably wondering, as we get closer to June 30 and the handover whether -- what sort of checks and balances will be in their new system. It's still unknown at this stage.

So, I think today and tomorrow we'll find out more about how it's been playing. I know that earlier in the week there was obviously upset that -- Iraqis were upset that the president didn't apologize when he had the opportunity on the two Arab TV networks and did only the next day when he was -- after he met with the king of Jordan. So, people feeling that there's a lot of talk so far but they want to see more action.

BROWN: Simon, thanks a lot. That's a great observation. How that must look to the Iraqis to watch a democratic government play out and wondering how it will play to them. Simon, thank you very much.

Coming up on the program tonight, Private First Class Lynndie England. Her face has been seen around the world. Her story has not been told yet but it will be.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The petite brunette with the wide grin is now familiar to the world and it is the kind of recognition no one would wish for. Perhaps more than any other soldier seen in the horrific photographs, Private First Class Lynndie England has become an emblem of the prisoner abuse scandal. Today, a military court issued court martial charges against her as family and friends tried to counter the images that are difficult to forget.

Here's CNN's Kathleen Koch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The photo that has dominated headlines and newscasts worldwide, an American soldier holding an Iraqi prisoner by a leash, now those closest to Private First Class Lynndie England have come to her defense sharing their own snapshots. They insist the graphic photos don't depict the real Lynndie England.

ROY HARDY, ENGLAND FAMILY ATTORNEY: The pictures don't tell the full story. You don't know what was going on behind her, beside her. You don't know why the pictures were taken. You don't know anything except you have a picture.

KOCH: England's sister and best friend describe her as a role model, kind, strong, and dependable. They insist she did not hurt any prisoners.

JESSICA KLINESTIVER, SOLDIER'S SISTER: I don't believe my sister did what she did in those photos. Were they posed?

DESTINY GOIN, SOLDIER'S FRIEND: I don't believe Lynndie would actually be doing any of the actions that you see in the photos. It's not like her to be like that. She's a caring person.

KOCH: Twenty-one-year-old England grew up in tiny Fort Ashby, West Virginia. She joined the Reserves so her parents wouldn't have to pay for her college education.

Kerry Shoemaker-Davis, now discharged, served with England in the 372nd Military Policy Company. She doubts those truly responsible will ever be punished.

KERRY SHOEMAKER-DAVIS, FORMER ARMY M.P.: Probably not. And that's sad. I've been saying all along the person on the bottom of the to totem pole is going to be the one that gets squashed. And this is a perfect example of that.

KOCH: The military has restricted England, now five months pregnant, to Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, and the surrounding area.

Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: But if the people much higher in the chain of command than Private England are eventually implicated in the prisoner abuse scandal and held accountable is one of many questions tonight.

Secretary Rumsfeld did his best today to save his job in back to back hearings in the Senate and the House, as you heard earlier. He was up there for about six hours. A very long day.

So how did he do? One of the questions we'll put to John Harwood, "Wall Street Journal's" political editor. John joins us tonight from Washington.

Good to see you.

I'm not sure at least in this moment his job was on the line. But I don't think he hurt himself today, did you?

JOHN HARWOOD, POLITICAL EDITOR, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": No. I think he probably took a step forward. He was more effective, I think, in his apology than the president was a day earlier.

He acknowledged that he had failed to appreciate the gravity of the situation. The offer of compensation was something new to put on the table.

So all in all, he also had help from one of the questioners who went a little bit overboard in their speech making toward him. But I thought over all it was a fairly effective performance by the secretary.

BROWN: Just as an aside, the notion, I'm not sure it's appropriate or not. I don't know yet. I haven't thought about it much. Of providing compensation to people who may, in fact, have been really bad guys is kind of strange to contemplate, isn't it?

HARWOOD: Well, it just shows what an extraordinary situation that we're in. You know, the challenge for Rumsfeld -- he said at one point in his testimony, the reason we didn't get this was until you see the pictures, you don't get it, and words don't get it. That's the problem of course, with the apology, as well.

He was on Arab TV when he was talking. A lot of Americans were tuning in. And so you get some mileage out of that. But that is very difficult to compete with those pictures of a young woman holding a dog leash attached to a prone Iraqi prisoner.

BROWN: Let's talk politics a bit as this applies to the president. Let me make an argument that, in and of itself, this does not hurt the president politically. Do you agree with that?

HARWOOD: No. I think it does in a couple of ways.

One, it raises the question which the president may and the people who work for him may have a good answer, whether there were any signals sent that had anything to do with this type of behavior happening.

The second is a management issue. Did people get information up the chain of command who should have?

And we learned today by a report from some of my colleagues at the "Wall Street Journal" that people at the International Red Cross had been warning of bad conditions at this prison for some time and not much seems to have been done about it.

The third, really, Aaron, and the one that I think is the most important is whether this gives Americans a feeling that we've just gotten a lot more than we bargained for here in Iraq.

In our "Wall Street Journal"/NBC News poll this week we asked, 60 percent of the people said the United States was no longer control of the situation in Iraq. That's a dangerous perception six months from election day.

BROWN: And that's where I would agree with you, that I think here -- not that I necessarily disagree with the first part of that. That it plays into a larger mosaic of a very bad month of April, the continuing problems in Najaf, the need for more troops, the need for more money, all of that. This becomes a puzzle piece in all of that.

But I do think it has some danger for the president politically.

HARWOOD: No doubt about it. And the proportion of people who want troops home in some specified time period within 18 months, we asked in our poll, 55 percent.

That's a problem for the president. He's very highly identified with this war. And if it comes to be seen as a mistake, that's not going to benefit him.

Think of one other thing, too, Aaron. There is very good economic news that's actually breaking today: 300,000 jobs added on top of a similar performance a month ago.

Who's talking about that? Nobody. Everybody's focused on the problem in Iraq. And that prevents the -- makes it more difficult for the administration to take advantage of positive trends in the economy.

BROWN: It's good to see you, John. Thank you. Have a good weekend.

HARWOOD: You, too.

BROWN: Thank you, buddy.

Still to come on the program tonight, is there a connection between the bombings in Madrid and a lawyer in the rose city of Portland, Oregon. The feds say they have the fingerprints to prove it. Do they prove it?

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: On another night in another time this might have been the lead. It certainly ranks among the most fascinating mysteries to come over the transom in a while.

An American lawyer from Portland, Oregon, being held in federal custody in connection with the bombings in Madrid on the 11th of March. And unlike most of these stories, the evidence is said to be direct and damning, or is it?

From Portland tonight, CNN's Ted Rowlands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Spanish authorities tell CNN 37-year-old Brandon Mayfield's fingerprints were found on a plastic bag containing detonators similar to those used in the March 11 rail bombings in Spain, a terrorist attack that killed 190 people and injured 1,500 others.

The bag, according to Spanish authorities, was found in a white van with other potential evidence, including an audiotape of Quran readings near the station that three of the four trains that were attacked left from.

TOM NELSON, ATTORNEY: I don't think much of the government's case nor their tactics.

ROWLANDS: Tom Nelson, an attorney and friend of Mayfield's, was at a closed hearing on the matter held Thursday at the federal courthouse in Portland. Nelson says Mayfield told them he hasn't left the country in years. Mayfield was a lawyer for Jeffrey Battle in a child custody case. Battle was a member of the Portland 7, a group accused of planning to fight against America for the Taliban.

Mayfield is also a practicing Muslim.

NELSON: He's not a fanatic or an extremist in any sense of the word. Is that why he was singled out? Absolutely. If he were a Jehova's Witness or a 7th Day Adventist or a Unitarian or a Jew or a Catholic, he wouldn't be there.

ROWLANDS: U.S. authorities would not comment on the case but did confirm that two search warrants were issued. Friends say Mayfield's vehicle and law office were searched, along with the home he shares with his wife, Mona and three young children.

MONA MAYFIELD, BRANDON MAYFIELD'S WIFE: I'm sure he's thinking this is appalling, this is ridiculous, you know, these type of charges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS: Mayfield hasn't been charged with anything. He is being held as a material witness, which allows the government to keep him for a, quote, "reasonable amount of time."

It is expected that he'll be held in custody until he testifies in front of a federal grand jury. And that, Aaron, is expected in the next few days here in Portland.

BROWN: Ted, thank you very much. Ted Rowlands, Portland, Oregon, tonight.

Other news: a battle over a little pill has taken yet another turn. The Food and Drug Administration ruled yesterday against allowing the morning after pill to be sold over the counter, even though the FDA's own expert advisory panel voted overwhelmingly in favor of the idea.

Advocates of selling the pill over the counter say making that making emergency contraception easy to obtain would, in fact, reduce unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions.

That is not how the anti-abortion groups see it, and they lobbied hard to keep the pill prescription only.

Here's CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These little pills are available over the counter in 33 countries but not in the United States.

The reason? Some say it's pure politics. DR. ALASTAIR WOOD, FDA ADVISORY COMMITTEE: It's really a public health tragedy for women that they're not going to be able to get this drug over the counter.

COHEN: In an unusual move, the Food and Drug Administration went against the advice of its own scientific advisory committee and ruled that the drug called Plan B should continue to be given by prescription only.

It's one of only two FDA-approved morning after pills.

It's a hot issue, because anti-abortion groups are against the drug, saying it amounts to abortion.

A spokesman for the FDA said lobbying from political groups played no part in the decision and that the wide availability of safe and effective contraceptives is important to public health.

The pill must be taken up to 72 hours after sex. The FDA's concern wasn't worried over the side effects, per se, which don't amount to much more than fatigue and headaches.

Dr. Alistair Wood was on the FDA advisory committee.

WOOD: There really aren't any substantial risks. Plan B is actually just a larger dose of a regular contraceptive pill.

COHEN: The FDA said the problem is the drug was tested on only a small number of girls under the age of 16.

Some say this shouldn't matter, because the side effects would probably be no different in teens than in older women. And the FDA often approves over the counter status for drugs that haven't had much testing in teens.

The company that makes Plan B says they'll reapply for over the counter status.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, another war another time. But reasons to remember, just the same.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There were echoes of the past today in Vietnam. And if you listen closely enough, inklings of something more.

All across the country, people celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, that spelled the downfall of one global power, the French. And ultimately the arrival and painful entanglement of another, the Americans. And the Vietnamese general who accomplished this lived to see this day. He's 92 now, and he still wants to tell his American counterparts a thing or two about fighting a war in an unfamiliar place against a determined enemy.

In Hanoi tonight, here's CNN's Stan Grant.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's still the warrior he was 50 years ago.

GEN. VO NGUYEN GIAP, COMMANDED VIETNAMESE ARMY (through translator): The Vietnamese people are the owners of the country and can never be slave of anyone else.

GRANT: The battlefield of Dien Bien Phu. Here, General Vo Nguyen Giap redefined the art of war.

He turned Ho Chi Min's communist rebels into an army and he defeated his colonial masters, the French, in 56 bloody days of fighting.

Thousands on both sides dead.

GIAP (through translator): President Ho Chi Min said this is a golden milestone in the history of Vietnamese struggles against foreign invaders marking the fit of the old colonialism running down the hill to the tune of failure.

GRANT: Dien Bien Phu was a victory, not an end. Ahead lay the Americans and two more decades of fighting. Then like the French, U.S. troops were gone.

GIAP (through translator): For Vietnamese people after the Dien Bien Phu victory, we liberated Hanoi and half of the country to build the northern part into a strong base and go shoulder to shoulder with the people in the south, in the 20-year struggle against the Americans.

GRANT: The old man-of-war now looks at America in a new battleground, Iraq, and wonders about the lessons of Dien Bien Phu, lessons for America and Iraqi insurgents.

GIAP (through translator): When a nation is determined to fight for independence and sovereignty, stand up to fight and know how to unite themselves all together. They will surely deflect (ph) any foreign invader, no matter how modern the weapons are, no matter how strong they are financially and militarily.

GRANT: General Giap knew war every day for more than 30 years. His tears wet his pillow each night, he tells me, each one for men lost.

Stan Grant, CNN, Hanoi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers and a tabloid or two after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And this will be the last time we'll be doing morning papers. The last time I'll be doing morning papers on this set, in this studio.

Here we go.

Just look at the pictures that editors chose of Secretary Rumsfeld today. He's on the front page everywhere.

The "International Herald Tribune" leads thusly, "Rumsfeld deepest apology, takes responsibility for abuse and warns of new photos." Kind of a contemplative picture.

The "Times Herald-Record" in upstate New York, Catskills edition, a very kind of strong picture of the defense secretary. "Worst yet to come" is the headline.

The "Boston Herald," another tabloid here. Getting my papers all messed up. "Worst yet to come," as well. And that's a very different photo, isn't it? I mean, that's not a happy guy in that photo.

"The Guardian," British paper, "Rumsfeld: I won't quit." I'd say that was a sort of a defiant look. Maybe not. You read into it as you will. Anyway, "Rumsfeld: I won't quit" is the headline.

Now the tabloids, quickly, because it's Friday and we feel like it.

The serious tabloids. The "National Enquirer": "275 pound Martha collapses, pals fear suicide before she goes to prison." 275 pounds, my goodness.

OK, from "The Weekly World News," our favorite tabloid, a number of them. "My cuckoo clock stops when John Kerry speaks. Mysterious timepiece may be trying to tell owners something, but what?" I have no idea.

"Aliens rescue abused Dumbo from circus. E.T.'s with a heart."

This one's great, a political story. "Sex marks the spot. Congress to force singles to disclose number of sex partners on their foreheads."

OK. This is serious now, OK? No laughter, all right?

"Saddam can't be killed. He sold his soul to Satan for eternal life." And they actually have a picture. That's pretty good.

The cover story, "World's fattest cat hits 80 pounds." But he's on a diet. What is the diet? The cat-kins diet.

We'll wrap it up with a Mother's Day treat in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Much of the news this week has turned on images which speak to the worst in people. We close tonight with photographs that celebrate the good.

Peter Fetterman is a fine art photography dealer, a collector and a gallery owner. His book, "Women, A Celebration" is just that. And with Mother's Day ahead, it caught our eye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER FETTERMAN, PHOTOGRAPHER (voice-over): The camera has a special relationship with women. Through the history of photography, most of the great images I've ever encountered have been with women.

And I assembled 120 images. And I wanted to create a special mood in the book where the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. It seems to work, because the moods change.

You go from Audrey Hepburn to a very strong image of a mother and her children who are having a tough time. It's taken by Consuela Pinagra (ph). And she just captured this woman with her children and the struggle. And I think it's just a very beautiful important photograph with, I think, the greatest title ever accorded a photograph: "She is a Tree of Life to Them."

It's a group of women praying in northern India in a place called Srinida (ph). And there is a bodily gesture. And there's the clouds and the mountains behind them. And they're just praying, and the gesture of these praying women transcends any kind of religious symbolism for me.

The thing that I've always been obsessed with in photography is the storytelling nature of photography. This shot was taken by Elmore Gigli (ph) in 1960. His studio was opposite these beautiful brown stones that he heard were going to be pulled down immediately. And he wanted to preserve the memory of this building he loved.

So he went round the corner to the Ford Model Agency and said, "Help me. Help me." They lent him the models for a day. And he went into Shina (ph) begging, "Help me. Help me." They lent him the clothes for the day, borrows a Rolls Royce for the day. And he's about to take the shot, realized he'd better get permission from the building inspector.

So the building inspector is pulling his hair out and said, "I can't let you do this. We'll get sued. OK, I'll let you do this on one condition. My wife has always wanted to be a model. Is you put my wife in the photograph, I'll let you do it."

So they rushed his wife down. They find clothes for her. But the shoes were a little too big. Which one's the building inspector's wife? There she is. And then he took the shot, and the building was blown up two hours later. I'm not a great fan of celebrity photography. But there are actors and musicians I've admired. And there are some wonderful famous people who are famous for a good reason. So I've hopefully included some of those.

I grew up listening to Ella Fitzgerald, and I found this extraordinary photo of Ella Fitzgerald. Very tender, very expressive.

I love photographs that have irony. There we have Picasso, one of the most probably famous misogynists in the history of art walking behind his wife, holding the umbrella for her. I thought it was a good way to end the book, to have this man put in his place.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That's pretty cool. Happy Mother's Day, by the way.

We leave you tonight for the weekend, and we leave this building here on 34th and 8th for good. We'll see you again on Monday uptown, really uptown, but it's the same old NEWSNIGHT.

Have a good weekend. We'll see you on Monday. Good night from all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 7, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
The worst is yet to come. That's what the secretary of defense indicated today before the Congress. There are more pictures, many more, and there are videos too and they depict scenes, according to Mr. Rumsfeld, worse than anything we've seen so far.

So should they be seen? Indeed, should the original photos have been seen at all? It will not surprise you to know that to me the answer is clearly yes but I put the question out there tonight after reading a piece today by Jonah Goldberg, who will join us on Monday.

In the piece, Mr. Goldberg, the conservative columnist, argues that CBS, which aired these pictures first and then the rest of us should have sat on them because of the damage they have done. He correctly notes we withhold pictures all the time, people jumping out of the World Trade Center, for example.

Again, he'll join us on Monday to argue his point fully. We'll argue ours in two sentences. You don't appreciate what happened in that prison until you see it. No one did and now the world will judge us not simply by the pictures but how we handled those who were participants in the degradation of people who had no power at all.

The whip begins with the defense secretary's defense, Donald Rumsfeld on the Hill today, quite a day, Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon again tonight, Jamie a headline.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, was it me last night who said don't expect too much contrition from Defense Secretary Rumsfeld? Well, he was contrite and apologetic but also argumentative and he warned that some of the things we don't know about the abuse are, his words, "radioactive."

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. We'll get back to you in a bit.

About six hours of testimony in all, lots of tough questions. Did the defense secretary mend any fences on the Hill? Joe Johns is there for us tonight, so Joe a headline.

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a lot of people here on Capitol Hill are very glad Rumsfeld apologized, especially Republicans, but it does not appear that these hearings today put a rest to the questions of whether Rumsfeld should resign -- Aaron.

BROWN: Joe, thank you.

On to Iraq, more fighting there today in the flashpoint city of Najaf a day after U.S. troops took over the governor's office. Jane Arraf has been there now for a while and is there tonight, Jane a headline.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF: Aaron, followers of radical leader Muqtada al-Sadr continue to attack U.S. forces and, in the mosque on Friday, the Shia leader himself gets some mileage out of those photos saying that President Bush and other leaders should stand trial in Iraq over them.

BROWN: Jane, thank you.

And finally an American lawyer being held in Portland, Oregon in connection with the Madrid terrorist bombings, a fascinating story this. Ted Rowlands is there, Ted a headline.

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And that American lawyer remains in federal custody tonight. His family and friends are speaking out saying that he is a target because he's a practicing Muslim -- Aaron.

BROWN: Ted, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest in a moment.

Also on the program on this Friday night, the woman in the photos, the photos, Private First Class Lynndie England who she is and the charges she now faces.

Plus the morning after pill now not available the morning after, at least not over the counter, why some say the FDA bowed to political pressure.

And it's Friday and the rooster's favorite day for papers because it always includes the tabloids and just may include a batboy update, you never know, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with the defense secretary's day on Capitol Hill, a long day, a tough day. Going into it many Senators and Congressmen believed the secretary kept them in the dark about the prison abuse in Iraq and the investigation. It showed in the questioning about how far up and down the chain of command the problems lie, in short where the buck starts and where it stops.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): From the moment Senator John Warner opened the Senate hearing its importance and its resonance to past scandals was clear.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: The questions before us today are who knew what and when? What did they do about it?

BROWN: The secretary of defense, flanked by his top military chiefs, wasted no time taking responsibility. DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: These events occurred on my watch. As secretary of defense I am accountable for them and I take full responsibility.

BROWN: And apologizing to the victims.

RUMSFELD: I feel terrible about what happened to these Iraqi detainees. They're human beings. They were in U.S. custody. Our country had an obligation to treat them right. We didn't and that was wrong.

So, to those Iraqis who were mistreated by members of the U.S. Armed Forces I offer my deepest apology. It was inconsistent with the values of our nation. It was inconsistent with the teachings of the military to the men and women of the armed forces and it was certainly fundamentally un-American.

BROWN: Rumsfeld went further saying that he intended to seek financial compensation for Iraqi victims and agreeing that Iraq should consider destroying the prison as an important symbolic gesture. He defended the military's handling of the complaints of mistreatment.

RUMSFELD: The idea that this is a story that was broken by the media is simply not the fact. This was presented by the Central Command to the world.

BROWN: And he promised that future investigations would go all the way up the line.

RUMSFELD: It does not matter one wit where the responsibility falls. It falls where it does.

BROWN: In the face of questions that he had not informed the Congress of the ongoing public relations disaster, he made it clear that he had not realized the impact of the photographs and so failed to brief the president and the Congress properly.

RUMSFELD: If there's a failure it's me. It's my failure for not understanding and knowing that there were hundreds or however many there are of these things that could eventually end up in the public and do the damage they've done.

BROWN: And he warned ominously there was more to come, more and worse.

RUMSFELD: There are other photos, many other photos that depict incidents of physical violence towards prisoners, acts that can only be described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman and I'm advised there also are videos of these actions.

BROWN: The famously pugnacious Rumsfeld even admitted he would consider stepping down.

RUMSFELD: Needless to say, if I felt I could not be effective I'd resign in a minute. I would not resign simply because people try to make a political issue out of it. BROWN: Hours later as this long day of hearings first in the Senate and then the House drew to a close he made it clear, however, that there was still a spark of the old Rumsfeld left.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know there are some people out there on the political bandwagon but in this committee...

RUMSFELD: There's the understatement of the morning.

BROWN: Through it all, the secretary defended the military and the American people.

RUMSFELD: We're having an open process in prosecuting the people who have done something wrong. The world is seeing what a democracy does. The world is seeing how people who care about human rights behave.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The secretary before the Congress today. As you heard, even as he apologized the secretary dropped a bombshell, within the Pentagon there is more, more photographs, videotapes, perhaps more to tarnish the country in the eyes of the world, at the very least more to investigate and explain.

With that side of the story here's CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): The revelation that there are many more photographs, even videotapes said to show prisoner abuse described as blatantly sadistic, cruel and inhuman, resulted in an ominous warning.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Apparently, the worst is yet to come potentially in terms of disturbing events.

MCINTYRE: But there are no plans to release them.

RUMSFELD: If these are released to the public, obviously it's going to make matters worse. That's just a fact. I mean I looked at them last night and they're hard to believe.

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld said it was his personal failure not to insist on seeing the pictures months ago.

RUMSFELD: I say no one in the Pentagon had seen them and they were part of that investigative process. It is the photographs that gives one the vivid realization of what actually took place. Words don't do it.

MCINTYRE: Rumsfeld still hasn't seen the videos but a report by an army general who investigated the abuse gives a hint of what's on them. It refers to "videotaping and photographing naked male and female detainees" and "forcing male detainees to masturbate while being photographed and videotaped." Rumsfeld's critics say it's a mistake to allow the bad news to dribble out. SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: With all due respect to investigations ongoing and panels being appointed, the American people deserve immediate and full disclosure of all relevant information so that we can be assured and comforted that something that we never believed could happen will never happen again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: Among the abuse still under investigation, beatings, a possible murder and the rape of a female Iraqi prisoner by an American MP, allegations that Defense Secretary Rumsfeld today described as radioactive in their strategic impact -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, as we sit here talking tonight, seven soldiers are facing criminal charges, is that correct?

MCINTYRE: That's correct.

BROWN: Do you know the highest rank of those seven soldiers?

MCINTYRE: They're all sergeants or below and the investigation of those who are higher up in the chain of command is continuing but we've yet to see any results of that.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you very much for a splendid week of work. Thank you Jamie McIntyre.

Apology or not today, Secretary Rumsfeld also made it clear that he serves at the pleasure of the president not that of the Congress. All the same, a president cannot secure funding for the military in a war with a radioactive defense secretary. Consequently, much of Mr. Rumsfeld's mission today was about mending fences, so did he succeed? Too soon to tell perhaps, save the early review.

So, from Capitol Hill tonight, here's CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS (voice-over): After the hearing, Senator John McCain said he was unhappy with Rumsfeld's answers but was withholding judgment on whether the defense secretary should go.

MCCAIN: I still think it would be premature to call for the secretary's removal.

JOHNS: The senior Republican on the committee and the top Republican in the Senate both voiced confidence in Rumsfeld but said the decision was not theirs to make.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), ARMED SERVICES CHMN.: That's a question that's subjective and the secretary in consultation with the president, if that comes about, should answer and I indicated this morning very clearly I intend to support my president in his decision.

JOHNS: Still, Senator Edward Kennedy added his voice to the growing chorus of Democrats who want Rumsfeld out. SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: I think the president of the United States should fire the Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld. I think we need a new beginning. I think we need a new secretary of defense.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JOHNS: Rumsfeld did get some support from Democrat Joe Lieberman who said no one had apologized for killing Americans in Iraq. No Republican so far has called for Rumsfeld's resignation. Privately, some Republicans do worry how he will be able to survive this if more pictures and even videos come out -- Aaron.

BROWN: Is there, and this happens in Washington, is this that kind of uncomfortable waiting time to see how the public reacts to what happened today and what may happen tomorrow?

JOHNS: It certainly is especially what may happen tomorrow. Of course, you really can't gauge what the public will do until they see pictures like the ones they've seen over the last week. So, a number of Senators are saying they'll just have to wait and see.

Still, even Republicans are just not sure Rumsfeld will be able to weather this. We have to remind viewers, of course, that the president has put his full support behind Rumsfeld -- Aaron.

BROWN: Yes, he has. He did so yesterday. Thank you, Joe, Joe Johns who's on the Hill tonight.

Among those questioning the secretary and the generals with him today was Mark Pryor, the freshman Senator from Arkansas, who serves on the Senate Armed Services Committee and we spoke with the Senator late this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator, the defense secretary today said he accepts responsibility. What is he accepting responsibility for exactly?

SEN. MARK PRYOR (D), ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE: Well, that's a good question. You know, he came in today. I felt like he was contrite. He, you know, apologized and did accept responsibility.

I think there's a reality about this story though that doesn't go away and that is these horrible pictures and now we hear there may be a videotape that comes out and, you know, this is something that will, you know, haunt the U.S. for a long time.

When we look back 20 years from now and look back at the Iraqi War, probably the most memorable photographs will be from this prison and not from what our brave men and women in uniform have done.

BROWN: Do you understand yet why neither the chairman of the Joint Chiefs nor the defense secretary had read the report or saw the pictures before they were broadcast? PRYOR: I do not understand that. In fact, my questions today were about that, about all the surprises that we continually go through here in the Congress about Iraq and whether it's the troop strength, whether it's the dollars involved and now whether it's this prison story, you know, it's just one surprise after another.

BROWN: Do you suspect or do you believe that what they characterized back in January as an investigation that they were characterizing something that they saw or wanted you to believe was essentially routine when clearly it was not routine?

PRYOR: It's hard to know exactly what they knew, when they knew it and all that because we just don't know yet but we do know that repeatedly the International Red Cross had contacted the Department of Defense about doing something about this prison and that's very discouraging for us to hear to know that it was an ongoing problem.

BROWN: Do you think, sir, that had there not been the pictures that -- obviously the pictures have an enormous international impact on the country and probably domestic impact also but were it not for the pictures that the Pentagon would have handled this very differently?

PRYOR: It's very possible. You know the pictures just make this a very real story. I mean, you know, they'll say a picture is worth a thousand words. You can write about this and talk about this all you want but when you're able to show a picture, you know, it's very powerful.

That's actually the -- you know one of the strengths of the medium of television but we don't have one picture here. We have thousands of pictures maybe, even a videotape. So, you know, this changes the dimension of this story.

BROWN: So, the question now I think becomes what do we do? What do you in the Senate do? What does the Pentagon do? Has the defense secretary lost the moral high ground to lead?

PRYOR: That's a great question. I'm not one who is calling for his resignation. I know there are a few that are but I'm not one of those. I think it's imperative that this administration act very swiftly and decisively on this story. It has a long term negative effect around the world in that region and inside Iraq. It also has a negative effect for U.S. moral about this war.

BROWN: Senator, we appreciate very much your time on a Friday.

PRYOR: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you. Have a good weekend.

PRYOR: Thank you for having me. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator Mark Pryor, we talked with him late this afternoon.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT on this Friday we shift the focus to Iraq itself and the radical cleric who has not gone away nor the problems he brings with him.

And the woman in the middle of the prison scandal, Private First Class Lynndie England, her story too, a break first.

From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The prison abuse scandal made its way into at least one mosque in Iraq today. In his weekly sermon, the rebel Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr said President Bush's apology is not enough and that those who committed the abuse should be punished the same way in the same place. Al-Sadr gave the sermon in a mosque in Kufa. Nearby in Najaf, al-Sadr's forces fought again with U.S. troops.

Here again, CNN's Jane Arraf on the videophone -- Jane.

ARRAF (via videophone): Aaron, (unintelligible) devastating (unintelligible) are still being felt out here. Muqtada al-Sadr, this radical Shia cleric has (unintelligible) Friday prayers in the mosque in Kufa said that those responsible, the U.S. soldiers as well as President Bush and those in his service should come to Iraq and stand trial over those photos.

He also said that he remained defiant in the face of U.S. military forces here, would continue to travel between the mosque and Kufa and the holy city in Najaf. Indeed, his followers, his armed followers continue their ambushes on U.S. forces, three ambushes today around Najaf. The U.S. military fought back and killed more than 20 suspected militia members -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jane, does it -- you're I think the last TV crew there. Do you get the sense at all that this is moving to an end or is this going to drag on for weeks and weeks?

ARRAF: It could possibly drag on for weeks but the feeling is I think on all sides, Aaron, that it would be much better to have it drag on a little bit to do this slowly than to move in with any haste and risk imploding this place. It's already a very tense, a very delicate situation.

The U.S. is continuing military pressure starting for the first time to fight back with mortars and last night and the night before last a 500-pound bomb dropped on a mortar position. So, far its very careful about what weapons it uses as well as political pressure.

They're bringing a U.S.-installed governor here and they're hoping that will put pressure on Iraqis to solve the problem themselves -- Aaron.

BROWN: Is there -- have there been in the last day or so any American casualties there? ARRAF: There have not and it's an interesting indication of how this fight is going. Essentially one of the hardest things, as you know, for U.S. forces to fight is unconventional warfare and basically what we have are several hundred, maybe in the high hundreds militia members who are conducting ambushes, hit and run.

Now what that means is when they ambush the U.S. troops and the U.S. troops are staying well away from the holy shrine, the troops fight back and they manage to kill a lot of militia members without sustaining any casualties themselves usually but they keep coming.

These militia members keep coming with rocket-propelled grenades, mortar attacks, despite the fact that they're outnumbered, outmanned. They feel that they have support on their side and they're keeping up these attacks -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jane, take care of yourself out there, Jane Arraf in Najaf tonight.

ARRAF: Thank you.

BROWN: Farther north closer to Baghdad, insurgents attacked a Polish television crew today killing two of the journalists, one of the victims, a well known war correspondent. It is, of course, another reminder that these are dangerous days in Iraq for everyone, especially westerners.

"Time" magazine's Simon Robinson joins us again tonight from Baghdad. It's good to see you. Just in terms of I guess all that has happened over the last year, the troublesome things that have happened, how difficult a problem has the prison story been? How much worse has it made the situation?

SIMON ROBINSON, "TIME" MAGAZINE CORRESPONDENT: I think it's been very bad and it comes obviously at a very delicate time in the lead up to the handover in late June to the Iraqis of some sort of limited sovereignty over their country.

So, it comes at a time when the U.S. had thought that they dealt with the problem in Fallujah or they found a solution that seems to be sticking at least for now and then these photos hit, so it certainly hit the coalition here and they're in damage control and the Iraqi people are obviously very upset as we've heard over the last week about what they've seen.

BROWN: Did it -- has it hit with the intensity that the original assault on Fallujah hit with or the closing down of the newspaper hit with?

ROBINSON: The newspapers have been full of this and it's been -- it's talked about on the streets pretty much constantly since those photos first broke and people were glued to their television stations last night to hear the secretary of defense's testimony before the lawmakers.

BROWN: And how did it play? Any sense yet? ROBINSON: Well, I think it's probably too early to tell. It obviously went on for many hours and it's interesting. I think it's probably an interesting lesson for a lot of Iraqis in how the system works in the U.S. and they're probably wondering, as we get closer to June 30 and the handover whether -- what sort of checks and balances will be in their new system. It's still unknown at this stage.

So, I think today and tomorrow we'll find out more about how it's been playing. I know that earlier in the week there was obviously upset that -- Iraqis were upset that the president didn't apologize when he had the opportunity on the two Arab TV networks and did only the next day when he was -- after he met with the king of Jordan. So, people feeling that there's a lot of talk so far but they want to see more action.

BROWN: Simon, thanks a lot. That's a great observation. How that must look to the Iraqis to watch a democratic government play out and wondering how it will play to them. Simon, thank you very much.

Coming up on the program tonight, Private First Class Lynndie England. Her face has been seen around the world. Her story has not been told yet but it will be.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The petite brunette with the wide grin is now familiar to the world and it is the kind of recognition no one would wish for. Perhaps more than any other soldier seen in the horrific photographs, Private First Class Lynndie England has become an emblem of the prisoner abuse scandal. Today, a military court issued court martial charges against her as family and friends tried to counter the images that are difficult to forget.

Here's CNN's Kathleen Koch.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The photo that has dominated headlines and newscasts worldwide, an American soldier holding an Iraqi prisoner by a leash, now those closest to Private First Class Lynndie England have come to her defense sharing their own snapshots. They insist the graphic photos don't depict the real Lynndie England.

ROY HARDY, ENGLAND FAMILY ATTORNEY: The pictures don't tell the full story. You don't know what was going on behind her, beside her. You don't know why the pictures were taken. You don't know anything except you have a picture.

KOCH: England's sister and best friend describe her as a role model, kind, strong, and dependable. They insist she did not hurt any prisoners.

JESSICA KLINESTIVER, SOLDIER'S SISTER: I don't believe my sister did what she did in those photos. Were they posed?

DESTINY GOIN, SOLDIER'S FRIEND: I don't believe Lynndie would actually be doing any of the actions that you see in the photos. It's not like her to be like that. She's a caring person.

KOCH: Twenty-one-year-old England grew up in tiny Fort Ashby, West Virginia. She joined the Reserves so her parents wouldn't have to pay for her college education.

Kerry Shoemaker-Davis, now discharged, served with England in the 372nd Military Policy Company. She doubts those truly responsible will ever be punished.

KERRY SHOEMAKER-DAVIS, FORMER ARMY M.P.: Probably not. And that's sad. I've been saying all along the person on the bottom of the to totem pole is going to be the one that gets squashed. And this is a perfect example of that.

KOCH: The military has restricted England, now five months pregnant, to Ft. Bragg, North Carolina, and the surrounding area.

Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: But if the people much higher in the chain of command than Private England are eventually implicated in the prisoner abuse scandal and held accountable is one of many questions tonight.

Secretary Rumsfeld did his best today to save his job in back to back hearings in the Senate and the House, as you heard earlier. He was up there for about six hours. A very long day.

So how did he do? One of the questions we'll put to John Harwood, "Wall Street Journal's" political editor. John joins us tonight from Washington.

Good to see you.

I'm not sure at least in this moment his job was on the line. But I don't think he hurt himself today, did you?

JOHN HARWOOD, POLITICAL EDITOR, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": No. I think he probably took a step forward. He was more effective, I think, in his apology than the president was a day earlier.

He acknowledged that he had failed to appreciate the gravity of the situation. The offer of compensation was something new to put on the table.

So all in all, he also had help from one of the questioners who went a little bit overboard in their speech making toward him. But I thought over all it was a fairly effective performance by the secretary.

BROWN: Just as an aside, the notion, I'm not sure it's appropriate or not. I don't know yet. I haven't thought about it much. Of providing compensation to people who may, in fact, have been really bad guys is kind of strange to contemplate, isn't it?

HARWOOD: Well, it just shows what an extraordinary situation that we're in. You know, the challenge for Rumsfeld -- he said at one point in his testimony, the reason we didn't get this was until you see the pictures, you don't get it, and words don't get it. That's the problem of course, with the apology, as well.

He was on Arab TV when he was talking. A lot of Americans were tuning in. And so you get some mileage out of that. But that is very difficult to compete with those pictures of a young woman holding a dog leash attached to a prone Iraqi prisoner.

BROWN: Let's talk politics a bit as this applies to the president. Let me make an argument that, in and of itself, this does not hurt the president politically. Do you agree with that?

HARWOOD: No. I think it does in a couple of ways.

One, it raises the question which the president may and the people who work for him may have a good answer, whether there were any signals sent that had anything to do with this type of behavior happening.

The second is a management issue. Did people get information up the chain of command who should have?

And we learned today by a report from some of my colleagues at the "Wall Street Journal" that people at the International Red Cross had been warning of bad conditions at this prison for some time and not much seems to have been done about it.

The third, really, Aaron, and the one that I think is the most important is whether this gives Americans a feeling that we've just gotten a lot more than we bargained for here in Iraq.

In our "Wall Street Journal"/NBC News poll this week we asked, 60 percent of the people said the United States was no longer control of the situation in Iraq. That's a dangerous perception six months from election day.

BROWN: And that's where I would agree with you, that I think here -- not that I necessarily disagree with the first part of that. That it plays into a larger mosaic of a very bad month of April, the continuing problems in Najaf, the need for more troops, the need for more money, all of that. This becomes a puzzle piece in all of that.

But I do think it has some danger for the president politically.

HARWOOD: No doubt about it. And the proportion of people who want troops home in some specified time period within 18 months, we asked in our poll, 55 percent.

That's a problem for the president. He's very highly identified with this war. And if it comes to be seen as a mistake, that's not going to benefit him.

Think of one other thing, too, Aaron. There is very good economic news that's actually breaking today: 300,000 jobs added on top of a similar performance a month ago.

Who's talking about that? Nobody. Everybody's focused on the problem in Iraq. And that prevents the -- makes it more difficult for the administration to take advantage of positive trends in the economy.

BROWN: It's good to see you, John. Thank you. Have a good weekend.

HARWOOD: You, too.

BROWN: Thank you, buddy.

Still to come on the program tonight, is there a connection between the bombings in Madrid and a lawyer in the rose city of Portland, Oregon. The feds say they have the fingerprints to prove it. Do they prove it?

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: On another night in another time this might have been the lead. It certainly ranks among the most fascinating mysteries to come over the transom in a while.

An American lawyer from Portland, Oregon, being held in federal custody in connection with the bombings in Madrid on the 11th of March. And unlike most of these stories, the evidence is said to be direct and damning, or is it?

From Portland tonight, CNN's Ted Rowlands.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Spanish authorities tell CNN 37-year-old Brandon Mayfield's fingerprints were found on a plastic bag containing detonators similar to those used in the March 11 rail bombings in Spain, a terrorist attack that killed 190 people and injured 1,500 others.

The bag, according to Spanish authorities, was found in a white van with other potential evidence, including an audiotape of Quran readings near the station that three of the four trains that were attacked left from.

TOM NELSON, ATTORNEY: I don't think much of the government's case nor their tactics.

ROWLANDS: Tom Nelson, an attorney and friend of Mayfield's, was at a closed hearing on the matter held Thursday at the federal courthouse in Portland. Nelson says Mayfield told them he hasn't left the country in years. Mayfield was a lawyer for Jeffrey Battle in a child custody case. Battle was a member of the Portland 7, a group accused of planning to fight against America for the Taliban.

Mayfield is also a practicing Muslim.

NELSON: He's not a fanatic or an extremist in any sense of the word. Is that why he was singled out? Absolutely. If he were a Jehova's Witness or a 7th Day Adventist or a Unitarian or a Jew or a Catholic, he wouldn't be there.

ROWLANDS: U.S. authorities would not comment on the case but did confirm that two search warrants were issued. Friends say Mayfield's vehicle and law office were searched, along with the home he shares with his wife, Mona and three young children.

MONA MAYFIELD, BRANDON MAYFIELD'S WIFE: I'm sure he's thinking this is appalling, this is ridiculous, you know, these type of charges.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROWLANDS: Mayfield hasn't been charged with anything. He is being held as a material witness, which allows the government to keep him for a, quote, "reasonable amount of time."

It is expected that he'll be held in custody until he testifies in front of a federal grand jury. And that, Aaron, is expected in the next few days here in Portland.

BROWN: Ted, thank you very much. Ted Rowlands, Portland, Oregon, tonight.

Other news: a battle over a little pill has taken yet another turn. The Food and Drug Administration ruled yesterday against allowing the morning after pill to be sold over the counter, even though the FDA's own expert advisory panel voted overwhelmingly in favor of the idea.

Advocates of selling the pill over the counter say making that making emergency contraception easy to obtain would, in fact, reduce unwanted pregnancies and therefore abortions.

That is not how the anti-abortion groups see it, and they lobbied hard to keep the pill prescription only.

Here's CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): These little pills are available over the counter in 33 countries but not in the United States.

The reason? Some say it's pure politics. DR. ALASTAIR WOOD, FDA ADVISORY COMMITTEE: It's really a public health tragedy for women that they're not going to be able to get this drug over the counter.

COHEN: In an unusual move, the Food and Drug Administration went against the advice of its own scientific advisory committee and ruled that the drug called Plan B should continue to be given by prescription only.

It's one of only two FDA-approved morning after pills.

It's a hot issue, because anti-abortion groups are against the drug, saying it amounts to abortion.

A spokesman for the FDA said lobbying from political groups played no part in the decision and that the wide availability of safe and effective contraceptives is important to public health.

The pill must be taken up to 72 hours after sex. The FDA's concern wasn't worried over the side effects, per se, which don't amount to much more than fatigue and headaches.

Dr. Alistair Wood was on the FDA advisory committee.

WOOD: There really aren't any substantial risks. Plan B is actually just a larger dose of a regular contraceptive pill.

COHEN: The FDA said the problem is the drug was tested on only a small number of girls under the age of 16.

Some say this shouldn't matter, because the side effects would probably be no different in teens than in older women. And the FDA often approves over the counter status for drugs that haven't had much testing in teens.

The company that makes Plan B says they'll reapply for over the counter status.

Elizabeth Cohen, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, another war another time. But reasons to remember, just the same.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There were echoes of the past today in Vietnam. And if you listen closely enough, inklings of something more.

All across the country, people celebrated the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, that spelled the downfall of one global power, the French. And ultimately the arrival and painful entanglement of another, the Americans. And the Vietnamese general who accomplished this lived to see this day. He's 92 now, and he still wants to tell his American counterparts a thing or two about fighting a war in an unfamiliar place against a determined enemy.

In Hanoi tonight, here's CNN's Stan Grant.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STAN GRANT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's still the warrior he was 50 years ago.

GEN. VO NGUYEN GIAP, COMMANDED VIETNAMESE ARMY (through translator): The Vietnamese people are the owners of the country and can never be slave of anyone else.

GRANT: The battlefield of Dien Bien Phu. Here, General Vo Nguyen Giap redefined the art of war.

He turned Ho Chi Min's communist rebels into an army and he defeated his colonial masters, the French, in 56 bloody days of fighting.

Thousands on both sides dead.

GIAP (through translator): President Ho Chi Min said this is a golden milestone in the history of Vietnamese struggles against foreign invaders marking the fit of the old colonialism running down the hill to the tune of failure.

GRANT: Dien Bien Phu was a victory, not an end. Ahead lay the Americans and two more decades of fighting. Then like the French, U.S. troops were gone.

GIAP (through translator): For Vietnamese people after the Dien Bien Phu victory, we liberated Hanoi and half of the country to build the northern part into a strong base and go shoulder to shoulder with the people in the south, in the 20-year struggle against the Americans.

GRANT: The old man-of-war now looks at America in a new battleground, Iraq, and wonders about the lessons of Dien Bien Phu, lessons for America and Iraqi insurgents.

GIAP (through translator): When a nation is determined to fight for independence and sovereignty, stand up to fight and know how to unite themselves all together. They will surely deflect (ph) any foreign invader, no matter how modern the weapons are, no matter how strong they are financially and militarily.

GRANT: General Giap knew war every day for more than 30 years. His tears wet his pillow each night, he tells me, each one for men lost.

Stan Grant, CNN, Hanoi.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers and a tabloid or two after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And this will be the last time we'll be doing morning papers. The last time I'll be doing morning papers on this set, in this studio.

Here we go.

Just look at the pictures that editors chose of Secretary Rumsfeld today. He's on the front page everywhere.

The "International Herald Tribune" leads thusly, "Rumsfeld deepest apology, takes responsibility for abuse and warns of new photos." Kind of a contemplative picture.

The "Times Herald-Record" in upstate New York, Catskills edition, a very kind of strong picture of the defense secretary. "Worst yet to come" is the headline.

The "Boston Herald," another tabloid here. Getting my papers all messed up. "Worst yet to come," as well. And that's a very different photo, isn't it? I mean, that's not a happy guy in that photo.

"The Guardian," British paper, "Rumsfeld: I won't quit." I'd say that was a sort of a defiant look. Maybe not. You read into it as you will. Anyway, "Rumsfeld: I won't quit" is the headline.

Now the tabloids, quickly, because it's Friday and we feel like it.

The serious tabloids. The "National Enquirer": "275 pound Martha collapses, pals fear suicide before she goes to prison." 275 pounds, my goodness.

OK, from "The Weekly World News," our favorite tabloid, a number of them. "My cuckoo clock stops when John Kerry speaks. Mysterious timepiece may be trying to tell owners something, but what?" I have no idea.

"Aliens rescue abused Dumbo from circus. E.T.'s with a heart."

This one's great, a political story. "Sex marks the spot. Congress to force singles to disclose number of sex partners on their foreheads."

OK. This is serious now, OK? No laughter, all right?

"Saddam can't be killed. He sold his soul to Satan for eternal life." And they actually have a picture. That's pretty good.

The cover story, "World's fattest cat hits 80 pounds." But he's on a diet. What is the diet? The cat-kins diet.

We'll wrap it up with a Mother's Day treat in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Much of the news this week has turned on images which speak to the worst in people. We close tonight with photographs that celebrate the good.

Peter Fetterman is a fine art photography dealer, a collector and a gallery owner. His book, "Women, A Celebration" is just that. And with Mother's Day ahead, it caught our eye.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETER FETTERMAN, PHOTOGRAPHER (voice-over): The camera has a special relationship with women. Through the history of photography, most of the great images I've ever encountered have been with women.

And I assembled 120 images. And I wanted to create a special mood in the book where the whole was greater than the sum of the parts. It seems to work, because the moods change.

You go from Audrey Hepburn to a very strong image of a mother and her children who are having a tough time. It's taken by Consuela Pinagra (ph). And she just captured this woman with her children and the struggle. And I think it's just a very beautiful important photograph with, I think, the greatest title ever accorded a photograph: "She is a Tree of Life to Them."

It's a group of women praying in northern India in a place called Srinida (ph). And there is a bodily gesture. And there's the clouds and the mountains behind them. And they're just praying, and the gesture of these praying women transcends any kind of religious symbolism for me.

The thing that I've always been obsessed with in photography is the storytelling nature of photography. This shot was taken by Elmore Gigli (ph) in 1960. His studio was opposite these beautiful brown stones that he heard were going to be pulled down immediately. And he wanted to preserve the memory of this building he loved.

So he went round the corner to the Ford Model Agency and said, "Help me. Help me." They lent him the models for a day. And he went into Shina (ph) begging, "Help me. Help me." They lent him the clothes for the day, borrows a Rolls Royce for the day. And he's about to take the shot, realized he'd better get permission from the building inspector.

So the building inspector is pulling his hair out and said, "I can't let you do this. We'll get sued. OK, I'll let you do this on one condition. My wife has always wanted to be a model. Is you put my wife in the photograph, I'll let you do it."

So they rushed his wife down. They find clothes for her. But the shoes were a little too big. Which one's the building inspector's wife? There she is. And then he took the shot, and the building was blown up two hours later. I'm not a great fan of celebrity photography. But there are actors and musicians I've admired. And there are some wonderful famous people who are famous for a good reason. So I've hopefully included some of those.

I grew up listening to Ella Fitzgerald, and I found this extraordinary photo of Ella Fitzgerald. Very tender, very expressive.

I love photographs that have irony. There we have Picasso, one of the most probably famous misogynists in the history of art walking behind his wife, holding the umbrella for her. I thought it was a good way to end the book, to have this man put in his place.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That's pretty cool. Happy Mother's Day, by the way.

We leave you tonight for the weekend, and we leave this building here on 34th and 8th for good. We'll see you again on Monday uptown, really uptown, but it's the same old NEWSNIGHT.

Have a good weekend. We'll see you on Monday. Good night from all of us.

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