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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Congress Sees New Pictures of Iraqi Prisoner Abuse. Rumsfeld Calls Abuse of Prisoners Body Blow to U.S.

Aired May 12, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
It is again tonight about the pictures. The "Dallas Morning News" will print on its editorial page tomorrow a picture of the killers of Nic Berg holding his head.

To say they are doing this tastefully sounds dumb but they are discovering his face so you get the message without the worst of it. It is quite well done actually and we'll talk to the editor tonight.

Many of you write and say if you show the prison abuse you should show this horror too and I would say the difference is this. As Secretary Rumsfeld said the other day you can't really grasp the prison abuse story until you see the pictures. I do think you get the horror inflicted on Mr. Berg without actually seeing it.

To show a tape of the beheading is pornographic while not advancing the story at all but we also get there is a risk that we are sanitizing too much sometimes that taste can interfere with understanding and, in that regard, we have no quarrel with what they are doing in Dallas tonight even as we will not show it.

It is the prison pictures and the investigation that inspired that being the whip again for us tonight. Our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre with us here, start us with a headline, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, even as members of Congress reviewed fresh pictures of Iraqi prisoner abuse and pronounced them even worse than the pictures that have leaked there are new questions tonight about whether soldiers were taking orders from higher-ups and whether even the approved methods of pressuring prisoners violated the Geneva Conventions -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.

On to the suburbs of Philadelphia and more on the Nic Berg story. CNN's Maria Hinojosa is there tonight, Maria a headline.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a family in anguish over the brutal murder of their son now deals with another emotion, anger, as they realize that the United States is denying Nic Berg was ever in their custody.

BROWN: Maria, thank you.

Ben Wedeman next and the complicated state of play in Baghdad, Ben a headline.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Aaron. Well most Iraqis we've spoken to have condemned the killing of Nicholas Berg but the issue of prisoner abuse is far more a motive here with a minority of Iraqis saying that his beheading, the beheading of Nicholas Berg was a logical, if gruesome response.

BROWN: Ben, thank you.

And finally to the president, a very busy man lately in many respects. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King has the watch tonight, so John the headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president forcefully condemned the Berg execution today then took a short helicopter ride for an education event, part of the campaign's effort to give him an image not always dominated by war. It is to say the least an awkward balance.

BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT from Washington tonight, as we said at the top, the horrific pictures of Nic Berg, the American beheaded in Iraq and the decision by the "Dallas Morning News" to show more, not less, to help understand the story.

Also, Christiane Amanpour takes us to a small town in Africa where every day 300 refugees arrive, fleeing from famine and genocide, the story of Sudan. Is it today's Rwanda?

And later, as always, wherever we are the rooster and his headlines. We'll wrap it up tonight from Washington with morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin once again tonight with two sets of images now competing for the world's attention, one graphic evidence of the enemy's brutality, the other a reminder of what can happen in the fight against it. Neither is going away but the fuss over one is growing if only because terrorists are a law unto themselves and the U.S. military is not.

We have two reports tonight beginning first with CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Military personnel brought the photo and video files to the capital for members of the House and Senate to view in separate rooms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very appalling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were bad. They're all bad. JOHNS: Members said they saw one man beating his head against a wall repeatedly, videos of hooded men masturbating and Iraqi women forced to bare their breasts. One Senator said he saw no evidence of rape and murder.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: I did not see a video of either a rape of a male prisoner or a female prisoner.

JOHNS: Democrats said the abuse was the work of more than a few rogue soldiers.

NELSON: Now you can't tell me that all of this was going on with seven or eight Army privates, and so the question is where did that failure of the command and control occur?

JOHNS: Senior Republicans warned against making the pictures public.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: Err on the side of caution. I think at this time it would not be wise to publish them.

JOHNS: Chairman Warner said that would endanger criminal cases and violate the federal Privacy Act. House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi agreed citing the Geneva Convention's ban against publicly humiliating prisoners of war.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE LEADER: The rights of these prisoners have to be protected.

JOHNS: And many lawmakers said the beheading of an American hostage put the photos into a different perspective.

REP. TOM DELAY (R), MAJORITY LEADER: We should not forget that our enemies are incredibly more evil than what is depicted in these pictures.

JOHNS: Congressional aides estimated that more than half the members of the Senate saw the pictures. The crowd at the viewing in the House was described as standing room only but some members of Congress expressed no interest at all in seeing the pictures, describing them as more of what has already been released.

Joe John, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator Nelson, who you heard from briefly in Joe's piece, had a lot more to say tonight about what he saw and what it tells him and where things ought to go from here. We talked with him earlier tonight and you'll hear from him a bit later in the program.

First, though, more on where the investigation stands tonight, some of it to do with the who of this story or, to put it better, the who else. The photos today reportedly show more than just the seven soldiers already named and charged and beyond the who else there's also the how high to consider. During an interview done with a local television station in Denver, Private First Class Lynndie England didn't name names but she did point her finger higher up in the chain of command.

Here again CNN's, Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Some of the soldiers accused of Iraqi prisoner abuse are repeating their defense that they were acting on orders of higher-ups. Private Lynndie England says she was told to pose with naked prisoners to create psychological operations photographs.

PVT. LYNNDIE ENGLAND, U.S. ARMY: Told to stand there, give the thumbs-up, smile, stand behind all the naked Iraqis in the pyramid, take a picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who told you to do that?

ENGLAND: Persons in my higher chain of command.

MCINTYRE: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld again assured Congress the ongoing investigations will go as high as necessary.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: People will be punished at every level, I can assure you.

MCINTYRE: The highest officer now under scrutiny is Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who says she objected to military intelligence being put in charge of her military police. The unit, the 372nd MP Company, was described by the military's top general as "having issues adhering to Army standards."

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: They didn't have standardized uniforms. They were allowed to carry guns in their civilian clothes when they were off duty. They had things written on their cap. They didn't particularly want to salute.

MCINTYRE: Also under fire the Pentagon's approved rules for pressuring prisoners. A list of interrogation rules of engagement provided to Congress includes isolation for longer than 30 days, sleep adjustment, sensory deprivation and stress positions for up to 45 minutes at a time.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: And let me tell you your interrogation rules of engagement, the ones that are published, go far beyond the Geneva Convention.

MYERS: Those are appropriate and that's what we're told by legal authorities and by anybody that believes in humane behavior.

DURBIN: I would just conclude.

(END VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE: As he wrapped up his congressional testimony, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld admitted that the revelations of abuse at the Iraqi prison have been "a body blow to the United States" and he warned that with six investigations underway it's doubtless that there will be more revelations of abuse to come -- Aaron.

BROWN: Let's go back to the approved techniques. They talk about sleep adjustment. This is denying people sleep?

MCINTYRE: Well, interrupting their sleep or depriving them of some amount of sleep or sometimes reversing their sleep schedule, making them stay up all night and then sleep all day, just to set them off, get them off mentally.

BROWN: And stress positions?

MCINTYRE: That can be kneeling in a position or in an uncomfortable position. In fact, one of the investigations of possible abuse in Afghanistan is looking at whether a prisoner died because he was kneeling for so long that he got a blood clot that caused his death, even though he may have had some other injuries, so that's what they're talking about there.

BROWN: Is it a pretty shaken place, the Pentagon, these days?

MCINTYRE: There is great concern about the prospects for victory, not a military victory. As General Myers said today they don't think they can lose this militarily but they also don't think they can win it militarily. They're very concerned about the political situation.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, good to see you here in your town for a change.

On to the other images driving the news tonight. The first pictures of the fallout from the prisoner abuse scandal arrived yesterday and they are horrific.

Today, the FBI said it's opening an investigation into the murder of Nic Berg, the 26-year-old American beheaded in what his killers called the revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. The timing and the circumstance of Mr. Berg's murder are murky to say the least. Today his family said the U.S. government bears some responsibility.

Here's CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): The FBI says its agents offered Nick Berg safe passage out of Iraq warning the young man that Iraq was a volatile place for an unprotected American. Michael Berg, his father, says his son told him he turned down the offer of a flight out because the road to the airport was too dangerous to travel.

On Wednesday, though, the family had to deal with the unfortunate reality of death, a father meeting with a funeral director to discuss laying his 26-year-old son to rest, a family in mourning but now also angry, not only at hooded murderers but at the U.S. government for denying that Nic Berg was ever detained by U.S. authorities in Iraq.

VOICE OF MICHAEL BERG, FATHER: That's really what cost my son his life was the fact that the United States government saw fit to keep him in custody for 13 days without any of his due process or civil rights and released him when they were good and ready.

HINOJOSA: Brother David also broke his silence saying that Nicholas had sent e-mails from Iraq about being held in U.S. custody. While detained in Iraq, the Berg family sued Donald Rumsfeld and the Department of Defense on April 5th demanding Nicholas' release. One day later Nic Berg was let go and the suit was dropped.

SARA BERG, NIC BERG'S SISTER: My family is devastated.

HINOJOSA: His sister spoke briefly and emotionally, the sorrow etched on her face. Nic Berg was, according to friends, a humanitarian and an adventurer.

BRUCE HAUSER, NEIGHBOR: So he saw it as an opportunity to drum up some business for his own company and, knowing Nic, when he got there Nic's all about rebuilding, you know, and I'm certain that Nic had it in his mind that he's going to do something to help.

HINOJOSA: But Nicholas Berg never fulfilled his promise to himself, lost amid the confusion of war in the post 9/11 new world order that his father searching for blame tries to understand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Now just a few minutes ago, Nic Berg's mother and father came out in the quiet of the night and tried to rearrange some of the flowers that people have been dropping off all throughout the day.

They asked us all to turn off our generators, to not wake them up in the morning and they told us that they have plans now for a private memorial to be held for family and friends for Nic Berg this Friday -- Aaron.

BROWN: Maria, thank you, Maria Hinojosa outside Philadelphia tonight.

Timing often shapes context. That is true tonight. The video of Nic Berg's beheading comes on the heels of the photographs from Abu Ghraib. In Iraq, this collision of disturbing images had made for complicated reactions.

From Iraq tonight here's CNN's Ben Wedeman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): A barrage of jarring images has bombarded Iraq of late. Fighting and destruction in Najaf and Fallujah, abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers, and now the brutal videotaped beheading of an American civilian. The head of Iraq's Governing Council denounced Nicholas Berg's killing.

ABDEL ZAHRA OSMAN MOHAMMAD, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL (through translator): We condemn, the Iraqi people condemns this crime. Islam condemns this crime.

WEDEMAN: We heard the same thing outside.

"Slaughtering a human being is a very horrifying thing and, as an Iraqi, it was hard to watch such a brutal act," says Professor (unintelligible).

"Somehow they're punishing the Americans for what they did to the prisoners but two wrongs don't make a right" says Nisthene (ph) a student.

Reaction to Berg's killing is tinged by intense anger over prisoner abuse, a far more emotional issue for Iraqis than the brutal murder of an American civilian.

"After they abused and dishonored the prisoners they deserved this" says Saleh (ph).

And on the street skepticism about whether the man attributed with the murder even exists.

"I don't think there's anyone named Abu Musab al-Zarqawi" says Namen (ph). "It's a name the Americans invented upon which to hang all the mistakes of the resistance."

Some blame it all on the coalition's failure to control Iraq's porous borders.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know that Iraq now is open, open state, and anyone can enter into Iraq without any, any barriers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: Now, Aaron, the events of the last month and a half with fighting in Fallujah, Najaf, Karbala, Baghdad, political uncertainty, the prisoner abuse scandal and now, of course, these images, these gruesome images of the beheading of Nicholas Berg have all added up to create a gloom here that you can almost touch.

BROWN: Ben, when you talk about the images that they're seeing in the Berg case what is Al-Jaz showing? What is Al Aribiya showing? Are they showing the whole thing or not?

WEDEMAN: Well, actually I've been monitoring them very closely and they've been very careful only to show essentially what CNN and some of the other networks are showing, which is really just Berg in a chair making a statement and some of the images of those five hooded and masked men behind him.

But the images people are seeing, of course, are on the Internet and we've been going around some Internet cafes. Everybody is aware of it. Lots of people have seen them and lots of people are disgusted by it.

I mean these are images that are shocking to anyone regardless of what their political standing is but, as I said, the Arabic news networks have been fairly judicious in their use of these disturbing images.

BROWN: Ben, thank you, Ben Wedeman in Baghdad today.

On to the White House now where agree or disagree with how he's doing it or even whether he should, the president is furiously juggling both policy and politics.

Twenty years ago or so, President Jimmy Carter waged an election campaign at a terrible moment for Americans in Iran. It aged him enormously. He lost the election. The current president shows no signs of aging and he's working hard, very hard to avoid losing.

Again our Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): Outside the White House a forceful condemnation.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no justification for the brutal execution of Nicholas Berg, no justification whatsoever.

KING: And a familiar refrain.

BUSH: We will complete our mission. We will complete our task.

KING: At one end of the helicopter ride, the commander-in-chief voicing resolve in the face of another setback in Iraq. At the other end, a candidate for reelection seeking to soften his image and remind voters war is not his only focus.

BUSH: We believe every child can read.

KING: New ads revive the compassionate conservative theme of the last campaign.

NARRATOR: As president, he signed the most significant education reforms in 35 years.

KING: And, on the Internet, enlisting the first lady as part of the image makeover.

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: The president is so committed to education reform because he looks at schools as a parent looks at schools.

KING: For a wartime president there is no refuge from events like the prisoner abuse scandal or the execution of an American citizen and the Bush campaign has actively encouraged the commander- in-chief theme. But a majority of Americans now disapprove of how Mr. Bush is handling Iraq. His overall job approval rating is at its lowest point and Democrat John Kerry gets higher marks on handling the economy.

STU ROTHENBERG, ROTHENBERG POLITICAL REPORT: When there's so much war news it's hard for the president to show a complete range of who he is as a president. He's going to have to do that over the next five months.

KING: The Bush campaign knows Iraq is dominating national headlines but the ads, daily campaign events and more up close and personal campaigning are all designed to make war at least a bit less of the picture by election day.

ROTHENBERG: A likeable guy, a decent approachable person, that's an important asset to have if you're running for reelection, particularly if you're running against a Democrat who does not have an image as particularly approachable, soft and likeable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Just watch the president and you see this delicate, often difficult balance. On the one hand day-to-day management of an increasingly controversial Iraq policy, on the other the campaign's longer term objective, trying amid the daily images and challenges of war, Aaron, to soften his image just a bit.

BROWN: It's an interesting problem because you look at polls and polls will say the economy still is the issue but the daily drumbeat of news out of Iraq has to shape the campaign. Do they believe they can escape the bad news?

KING: No. They don't believe they can escape it at all but they believe come November you don't know how big Iraq will be. Of course it's big now and it's dominant. Come November, especially remember millions and millions of dollars are being spent for a tiny sliver of the A as particularly approachable, soft and likable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Just watch the president and you see this delicate, often difficult balance. On the one hand day-to-day management of an increasingly controversial Iraq policy, on the other the campaign's longer term objective, trying amid the daily images and challenges of war, Aaron, to soften his image just a bit.

BROWN: It's an interesting problem because you look at polls and polls will say the economy still is the issue but the daily drumbeat of news out of Iraq has to shape the campaign. Do they believe they can escape the bad news?

KING: No. They don't believe they can escape it at all but they believe come November you don't know how big Iraq will be. Of course it's big now and it's dominant.

Come November, especially remember millions and millions of dollars are being spent for a tiny sliver of the American electorate, 40-something percent are going to vote Bush, 40-something Kerry. You're fighting over this little group in the middle and they care about healthcare. They care about jobs. They care about education. The president can't "forget them" now.

BROWN: So, all of this that's going to play out over the next six, seven months is about a half a dozen, about a dozen states and a few million voters really.

KING: Some think maybe up to 15 or 18 states now but certainly you're playing in the middle. You're playing for about ten to 15 percent of the American electorate.

BROWN: John, thank you, John King with us tonight or we're with him as the case may be.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, our discussion of the Iraq prison photos that were shown to Congress today. Senator Bill Nelson of Florida joins us.

And later, a soldier who signed up for the college benefits and who learned that soldiering in wartime is something else entirely, a break first.

From the nation's capital, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The videos and the photographs taken at Abu Ghraib Prison and shown to members of Congress today remain in the custody of the Pentagon, at least for now. Whether they should be made public remains a matter of fierce debate in Washington and around the country, a debate now complicated by the murder of Nic Berg, we think.

We heard from Senator Bill Nelson, the Democrat of Florida, at the top of the program in Joe Johns' report. The Senator serves on the Senate Armed Services Committee and we spoke with him in Washington earlier tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator, the pictures you saw today, do they change in a significant way your perception? Would they change our perception of the story?

NELSON: Yes. You just can't believe with the kind of values that we have that our troops would be treating prisoners this way. Now, what I saw was a lot of the pictures that we've already seen in the newspapers.

And one of them that was very revealing was the one of the cellblock where you see several prisoners going about their normal duties with this clump of people that are tied together and naked.

In today's picture I saw that photo not cropped and you could see more soldiers. There were perhaps seven or eight there. Now, when people start talking about we're going to try to pin this on seven or eight Army privates, you got to go up the chain of command and we got to find out where the command and control broke down.

BROWN: Because that picture says to you this was so commonplace that no one even turned an eye to it?

NELSON: And that's what it appears. It was business as usual and that is just violating the standards that we have as Americans.

BROWN: One of your colleagues yesterday said he was outraged by the outrage that it's all been over the top. I gather you see that differently. Why don't you address that?

NELSON: Well, it is outrageous but, you know, Americans stand for our constitutional rights and the respect for law and respect for each other and tolerance and that's not what you see in these photographs.

BROWN: Do you understand even as it's somewhat inexplicable that these are young soldiers that these detainees, these prisoners are brought in, they believe them to be very bad actors who have been out killing their comrades out there, do you see how they could behave this way?

NELSON: I could see that when command and control breaks down. If there's not discipline then under wartime conditions anything can happen. That's why you've got to have a strict discipline and a strict control and, Aaron, let's don't lose sight of the fact that 99.9 percent of our soldiers we are so proud of them, of what they're doing in protecting this country.

The other sad part of this is that what is our goal in Iraq? It is to stabilize Iraq so that we can turn it over to the Iraqi people and this kind of thing only inflames the passions in the Muslim world and delays us from achieving that goal.

BROWN: In that regard, should the country, and ultimately the world, see these pictures that you saw today, see it all, get it all out there as in some respects inevitably it will be of course given the world we live in? Should we dump them out there so everyone can see them even knowing that it will, at least in the short haul and maybe longer, make things worse?

NELSON: In a word, yes. They're going to get out. A lot of them we saw today are already out. They're going to with three, four, five of these compact discs in circulation they're going to leak out. So, let's get them out. Get it behind us and move on to our goal of having Iraq being a stabilized country.

BROWN: Just one more. The whole idea of getting it behind us do you think this becomes the kind of iconic moment of the war in Iraq that in some respects we will never get this behind us?

NELSON: I hope not. I hope for our sake and I hope for the people in that region of the world for their sake.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in tonight.

NELSON: It's a pleasure.

BROWN: Nice to meet you in person finally.

NELSON: Well, I've been a fan of yours.

BROWN: Thank you. You're very kind. Thank you, Senator.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Bill Nelson, the Democratic Senator from the State of Florida.

On consecutive nights on the program we've grappled with the photos from Abu Ghraib and those of Nic Berg's murder, show both, show one, show neither. In choosing do we draw an equivalency between the Army and the terrorists?

Believe me none of this is easy or simple. Our next guest tonight knows that very well. Today she and her colleagues at the "Dallas Morning News" decided to run a picture of Nic Berg's severed head on its editorial page, blacked out to be sure but recognizable for what it is.

Keven Willey is the paper's editorial page editor and we're pleased that she joins us from Dallas tonight. Actually, we've debated whether to show this or not and I actually think we could and others disagree. Why don't you describe how you did this and we'll go for the why after that?

KEVEN WILLEY, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": Certainly. It's our lead editorial tomorrow. The headline on the editorial is "This is the Enemy." There is a picture of the alleged al Qaeda terrorist holding up the head. We have blackened out however entirely the head so there is no image of the head.

All you see is the terrorist and his arm raised but it communicates a great power and it shows the image of what, as you say, everybody is talking about and so many people who have web access have already seen.

BROWN: Why do it?

WILLEY: We're in the news business, the commentary business. This is news. This is the latest thing that has happened. I think it is important that Americans see reality and that is what we are about.

Now, we also exercise and have a responsibility to exercise judgment, good judgment, good journalism and we have sought to do that here by presenting the image of reality in as tasteful or non-gruesome way as possible.

BROWN: Yes, I was looking for a word other than tasteful earlier. I think non-gruesome works. Do you -- did you consider ever running more than you're running? WILLEY: We did but only in the sense of rather than having it blacked out. It is a very blackened image now. We had considered digitizing it much as television does. We looked at that image and even that we felt was borderline gruesome.

It didn't quite -- we decided in the beginning that, if we were going to do this, we wanted to do it in a responsible way and stick to some narrow principles. And we felt that the -- digitizing it didn't quite achieve that. And that's why we went with this particular route.

BROWN: Well, not that my opinion on these things or much of anything else matters, but I think you did it exactly right. and I think the message gets conveyed. And, in that regard, good for you for having the courage do it. Thank you.

WILLEY: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you, Keven Willey, who is the editorial page editor at "The Dallas Morning News." We appreciate her time and we appreciate as well when they send the paper our way in the morning.

Coming up on the program, the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, what the bishops promised to do about it and whether those promises are being fulfilled or falling short.

From Washington, D.C., this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It has often been said that the cover-up is worse than the crime, even with a horrible crime, perhaps especially so. In the case of the priest abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, the cover-up amounted to a violation that played out over and over again year in and year out, insult added to injuries that could only fester in the darkness for the children and the church.

When the scandals came to light, it seemed the bishops of the church understood, many of them at least, or did they?

Here is CNN's Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two years ago, U.S. Catholic bishops publicly adopted an unprecedented charter to address sexual abuse. They agreed to audits to ensure diocese cooperate. They agreed to form a national review board of laypeople to oversee the audits. Now that board says church leaders privately are trying to delay audits and manipulate board members.

ANNE BURKE, CHAIRWOMAN, NATIONAL LAY REVIEW BOARD: Early on, it appears that there was a movement and a lobbying effort made to postpone the audits. That's all I can say.

CARROLL: The bishops' resistance spelled out in letters obtained by CNN. New York's Cardinal Egan, he writes a report that, "The undersigned are not in favor of extending these efforts until after the matter is discussed by all of the bishops in November," similar letters signed by two dozen bishops in cities like Omaha, Newark, Philadelphia.

Kathleen McChesney says waiting until November would leave too little time for her office to audit all 195 U.S. diocese this year.

KATHLEEN MCCHESNEY, OFFICE OF CHILD AND YOUTH PROTECTION: The problem that is created right now started when we tried to get the funding approved for the next round of audits. And that's what generated the discussion and obviously the letters that you've now learned of.

CARROLL: The board, outraged, wrote its own letter, saying it felt manipulated, adding, a delay would stymie audits the bishops had mandated.

(on camera): On Wednesday, after inquiries from CNN, the head of the U.S. Conference of Bishops said they'll take up the issue in June. But he also added annual audits may not be necessary.

DAVID CLOHESSY, CHURCH ABUSE VICTIM: They have said over and over and over and over, we will commit ourselves to these annual audits. And if they can't be trusted to keep even one of the smallest promises, how can we trust them on more crucial issues?

CARROLL: A question bishops eventually will have to answer.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT from Washington, the reality of war that all soldiers face, but even more so in what until recently had been a peacetime Army.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Wars change, but certain things about war itself are timeless. If you fight, if you shoot or get shot at, if you witness war up close and firsthand, you are changed by the experience.

Sophocles wrote in the 5th century B.C., "War loves to seek its victims in the young." And often, we would add, even when the soldiers survives, the victim is youth.

Here is CNN's Jane Arraf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): There is not much that is black and white in this war or in a soldier's life. Specialist Josh Domina turned 21 in Iraq. And like most soldiers here, he has seen more than anyone should have to see in a lifetime. Three weeks ago, his unit was ambushed near Kufa. He fired at two men with weapons running out of the woods, killing them.

SPC. JOSH DOMINA, U.S. ARMY: First time I actually had to shoot somebody.

ARRAF (on camera): Must have really (OFF-MIKE) awful.

DOMINA: Yes, it still is.

ARRAF (voice-over): Domina is a gunner. He joined the Army to get a college education. But here, he says, he's learned it is kill or be killed.

DOMINA: I joined the military, you know, I was like, at first I was all, hey, shoot back at people, get cool guns, all this, yadda, yadda, yadda. And then I actually got out here you know, and you worry about -- you face the reality that you're in danger for your life every day. So you gotta watch your buddy's back, because you know they'll watch yours.

ARRAF: He says he knows the people he killed had families they'll never go home to.

DOMINA: Growing up, love your enemy. So, even after I ended up killing those two guys, I still prayed for them because you just gotta.

ARRAF: Domina and his buddies from Iron Troop thought they would be back in the United States by now. Instead, just days from leaving Baghdad for home, the 1st Armored Division was sent south to fight the Mahdi militia.

After 13 months at war, there is no sugarcoating what this is like. Specialist Jesse Riley says he's comfortably numb.

SPC. JESSE RILEY, U.S. ARMY: Your hands get so cold and your fingers start to hurt. And then it gets so cold and hurts so bad, you don't feel it anymore. That's what it is like. It sucks so bad, you just don't even feel it.

DOMINA: They mortar every night. They shoot every night. I wake up. You know it is bad when you wake up in the middle of the night you hear explosions all over the place, gunfire on the roof. And you look up and you go, eh, and you roll back over and go back to sleep. You know that's bad. That's just not normal.

ARRAF: In this unfinished building they sleep in, they cling to things that are normal, like movies. They wait for hours to get into the tiny Internet cafe.

DOMINA: I signed in at 6:30. It is about 8:45 now. And they still got about 12 names to go through.

ARRAF: They say, if they couldn't sit around and complain, they would go nuts. In the morning, Domina cleans his gun, getting ready to hit the streets again.

DOMINA: Hopefully, I don't have to use her.

ARRAF: Hopefully one day closer to being home.

Jane Arraf, CNN, Najaf, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a story that has been overlooked, but not tonight, from a corner of the world where the lives of countless people are at risk.

A break first. From Washington, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Among the many stories being overshadowed by events in Iraq and other places is the crisis in Sudan. More than 100,000 people have fled the country's western region, where Arab militias have been attacking the local black population. The United Nations has accused Sudan's government of tolerating ethnic cleansing, a charge Sudan denies.

In any case, refugees are pouring into neighboring Chad. U.N. officials call it a major humanitarian crisis.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour tonight from the Chad border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bahai is so poor, it can barely sustain itself. But for more than a year, it has been sharing its meager resources with 15,000 refugees. The U.N. and other international agencies only turned up a few months ago and they still haven't managed to set up camps this far north. Now they're in a race against time to keep all these people alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The rainy season is coming at the end of May, beginning of June. All this area will be completely flooded.

AMANPOUR: Children are now dying of preventable diseases like diarrhea for lack of water and health care. Helen Court (ph) tries to give this little girl rehydration salts. Her mother then tries to drip feed her with a syringe. But she won't take the liquid.

Dr. Camilo Valderama (ph) works for the International Rescue Committee. His job is to try to plug the health care hole. Chad has exactly 271 doctors for a population estimated at over nine million.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here in the Port (UNINTELLIGIBLE) area, there is one technical agent who has basic, basic training for 30,000 people almost.

AMANPOUR (on camera): One for 30,000 people? (voice-over): The babies are the most vulnerable. This little boy is 22 days old, his parents say. And yet he's not growing. His hands are shriveled, his face that of an old man. Severe malnutrition, says Dr. Camilo.

These people say they had a decent life in Darfur until the Sudanese government, which is Arab, went to war against Darfur's indigenous African people, a war for power and resources. The refugees told us about the attacks.

"They send in aircraft to bomb our villages," says Ahmed Salah (ph). "And then the militias come on horseback and burn down our houses and take all our possessions." Adam Suleman (ph) told us they killed the men and brutally attacked the women and young girls.

(on camera): So they're raping old women and young women?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): So just at this border point alone, the refugees keep coming.

(on camera): Every week, about 300 new refugees are crossing this riverbed, which forms the border between the Darfur region of Sudan and Chad. They're fleeing what amounts to a campaign of ethnic cleansing, conducted by the Sudanese Army and its marauding militia called the janjaweed. According to American and other human rights officials, thousands of Sudanese villagers have been killed. About a million are displaced within Darfur itself. And another 125,000 have had to flee to exile here in Chad.

(voice-over): With great difficulty, the U.N. and Human Rights Watch gained access to Darfur and paint a picture of appalling human rights abuses, including crimes against humanity that match the testimony of survivors. The U.S. and Europe have brokered a fragile cease-fire. Yet they say the militias continue their reign of terror.

Back across the border in Chad, the IRC is burning the refugees' only wealth, the carcasses of their animals which are dying of exhaustion and lack of food and water.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The goat, the sheep are food. And the donkeys are transport. So without their animals, they really have no resources left.

AMANPOUR: Further north, in Carfur (ph), the U.N. is making its first (AUDIO GAP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We're pushing it a little bit to try and get a live signal out of Chad. And we almost made it, Christiane Amanpour in a pretty discouraging piece of reporting there on the situation in Sudan and across the border.

Morning papers after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. This is hard to do in New York, where I know the cameras are. We'll see how this goes tonight. I sort of feel like I'm in "Jeopardy." It was kind of an inside joke for those of you who actually follow the program every single day.

"The International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times," pretty much all Iraq on the front page. "Two More G.I.s Facing Trial Over Abuse Of Iraqis, But Rumsfeld Denies International Rules Were Broken." And in the middle of the front page, "Americans United In Shock Over Beheading." That is "The International Herald Tribune." I wish I had seen this story. Oh, well, we'll just tell you that story another night.

It's a new town. I'm just learning how to do this here.

"The Christian Science Monitor." "Chain of Command Under Fire. Senator are Probing How High the Chain of Command Responsibility Lies For the Alleged Prisoner Abuses in Abu Ghraib." Are the alleged when we have actually seen them? I'm not sure they're alleged. In any case, John King, our senior White House correspondent, reporting tonight that there is a lot of feeling in Washington that some civilian has to -- in the Pentagon has to take the fall for what has gone on there, or someone at least higher up in the chain of command than we have gone.

It is Wapello? I forgot how to pronounce it. Wapello. This is "The Des Moines Register." And these sorts of stories appear all too often. "Navy Seabees Buried in Wapello," a town in Iowa. "Iowa Native Died a Hero." And it is just one of those pictures on the front page that will absolutely break your heart. Anyway, "The Des Moines Register" today.

How are we doing on time there, Sharon (ph)? OK.

"The Grant County Herald Independent." That, as you know, is Wisconsin's oldest newspaper. "The President Stops During Bus Trip. 'Impromptu" -- in quotes -- "Visit Weeks in the Planning." This is why presidents go on the road, and not just to shake the hands of a few voters, but they know they're going to get front-page coverage no matter what the news of the world is that day. "Bush Travels Through County He Lost Four Years Ago" is also on the front page. And then a story I haven't had a chance to look at, "Aquatic Therapy Helps Those in Pain in Recovery." That's the front of "The Grant County Herald Independent" in Grant County, Wisconsin.

"The Philadelphia." Yes, I want to do "The Philadelphia Inquirer." This is Nick Berg's hometown paper. And so it leads that way. "U.S. Denies Holding Berg." We talked about this a little while ago. I absolutely love this front page.

This comes from "The North Platte Bulletin," Lincoln County's news alternative. That would be North Platte, Nebraska. You've got to kind of read this, OK? It is a story on gas prices. "Cash Or Credit? Regular, An Arm; Plus, a Leg; Premium, First Born." I guess we get the message there. That's "The North Platte Bulletin," a weekly newspaper.

The weather in Chicago tomorrow, by the way, is "rowdy."

(CHIMES)

BROWN: We don't have "The Sun-Times." But, if we did, we would show it to you and we still play the silly noise.

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we leave you for the night, a quick look ahead at tomorrow's "AMERICAN MORNING." Here is Bill Hemmer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, thanks.

Tomorrow here on "AMERICAN MORNING," Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy is our guest, an outspoken critic of the war in Iraq, making some very controversial comments about the prisoner abuse scandal, basically suggesting that Saddam Hussein's torture chamber had been replaced by an American one. We'll ask him about it tomorrow morning, 7:00 a.m. Eastern time here on "AMERICAN MORNING." Hope to see you then -- Aaron.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Thank you. That's pretty harsh. That's tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."

Tomorrow, we'll be back in New York City, if all goes well. We'll see you then.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired May 12, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
It is again tonight about the pictures. The "Dallas Morning News" will print on its editorial page tomorrow a picture of the killers of Nic Berg holding his head.

To say they are doing this tastefully sounds dumb but they are discovering his face so you get the message without the worst of it. It is quite well done actually and we'll talk to the editor tonight.

Many of you write and say if you show the prison abuse you should show this horror too and I would say the difference is this. As Secretary Rumsfeld said the other day you can't really grasp the prison abuse story until you see the pictures. I do think you get the horror inflicted on Mr. Berg without actually seeing it.

To show a tape of the beheading is pornographic while not advancing the story at all but we also get there is a risk that we are sanitizing too much sometimes that taste can interfere with understanding and, in that regard, we have no quarrel with what they are doing in Dallas tonight even as we will not show it.

It is the prison pictures and the investigation that inspired that being the whip again for us tonight. Our Senior Pentagon Correspondent Jamie McIntyre with us here, start us with a headline, Jamie.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, even as members of Congress reviewed fresh pictures of Iraqi prisoner abuse and pronounced them even worse than the pictures that have leaked there are new questions tonight about whether soldiers were taking orders from higher-ups and whether even the approved methods of pressuring prisoners violated the Geneva Conventions -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.

On to the suburbs of Philadelphia and more on the Nic Berg story. CNN's Maria Hinojosa is there tonight, Maria a headline.

MARIA HINOJOSA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a family in anguish over the brutal murder of their son now deals with another emotion, anger, as they realize that the United States is denying Nic Berg was ever in their custody.

BROWN: Maria, thank you.

Ben Wedeman next and the complicated state of play in Baghdad, Ben a headline.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Aaron. Well most Iraqis we've spoken to have condemned the killing of Nicholas Berg but the issue of prisoner abuse is far more a motive here with a minority of Iraqis saying that his beheading, the beheading of Nicholas Berg was a logical, if gruesome response.

BROWN: Ben, thank you.

And finally to the president, a very busy man lately in many respects. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King has the watch tonight, so John the headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president forcefully condemned the Berg execution today then took a short helicopter ride for an education event, part of the campaign's effort to give him an image not always dominated by war. It is to say the least an awkward balance.

BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT from Washington tonight, as we said at the top, the horrific pictures of Nic Berg, the American beheaded in Iraq and the decision by the "Dallas Morning News" to show more, not less, to help understand the story.

Also, Christiane Amanpour takes us to a small town in Africa where every day 300 refugees arrive, fleeing from famine and genocide, the story of Sudan. Is it today's Rwanda?

And later, as always, wherever we are the rooster and his headlines. We'll wrap it up tonight from Washington with morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin once again tonight with two sets of images now competing for the world's attention, one graphic evidence of the enemy's brutality, the other a reminder of what can happen in the fight against it. Neither is going away but the fuss over one is growing if only because terrorists are a law unto themselves and the U.S. military is not.

We have two reports tonight beginning first with CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Military personnel brought the photo and video files to the capital for members of the House and Senate to view in separate rooms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very, very appalling.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were bad. They're all bad. JOHNS: Members said they saw one man beating his head against a wall repeatedly, videos of hooded men masturbating and Iraqi women forced to bare their breasts. One Senator said he saw no evidence of rape and murder.

SEN. BILL NELSON (D), FLORIDA: I did not see a video of either a rape of a male prisoner or a female prisoner.

JOHNS: Democrats said the abuse was the work of more than a few rogue soldiers.

NELSON: Now you can't tell me that all of this was going on with seven or eight Army privates, and so the question is where did that failure of the command and control occur?

JOHNS: Senior Republicans warned against making the pictures public.

SEN. JOHN WARNER (R), VIRGINIA: Err on the side of caution. I think at this time it would not be wise to publish them.

JOHNS: Chairman Warner said that would endanger criminal cases and violate the federal Privacy Act. House Democratic Leader Nancy Pelosi agreed citing the Geneva Convention's ban against publicly humiliating prisoners of war.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), HOUSE LEADER: The rights of these prisoners have to be protected.

JOHNS: And many lawmakers said the beheading of an American hostage put the photos into a different perspective.

REP. TOM DELAY (R), MAJORITY LEADER: We should not forget that our enemies are incredibly more evil than what is depicted in these pictures.

JOHNS: Congressional aides estimated that more than half the members of the Senate saw the pictures. The crowd at the viewing in the House was described as standing room only but some members of Congress expressed no interest at all in seeing the pictures, describing them as more of what has already been released.

Joe John, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator Nelson, who you heard from briefly in Joe's piece, had a lot more to say tonight about what he saw and what it tells him and where things ought to go from here. We talked with him earlier tonight and you'll hear from him a bit later in the program.

First, though, more on where the investigation stands tonight, some of it to do with the who of this story or, to put it better, the who else. The photos today reportedly show more than just the seven soldiers already named and charged and beyond the who else there's also the how high to consider. During an interview done with a local television station in Denver, Private First Class Lynndie England didn't name names but she did point her finger higher up in the chain of command.

Here again CNN's, Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Some of the soldiers accused of Iraqi prisoner abuse are repeating their defense that they were acting on orders of higher-ups. Private Lynndie England says she was told to pose with naked prisoners to create psychological operations photographs.

PVT. LYNNDIE ENGLAND, U.S. ARMY: Told to stand there, give the thumbs-up, smile, stand behind all the naked Iraqis in the pyramid, take a picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who told you to do that?

ENGLAND: Persons in my higher chain of command.

MCINTYRE: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld again assured Congress the ongoing investigations will go as high as necessary.

DONALD RUMSFELD, DEFENSE SECRETARY: People will be punished at every level, I can assure you.

MCINTYRE: The highest officer now under scrutiny is Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who says she objected to military intelligence being put in charge of her military police. The unit, the 372nd MP Company, was described by the military's top general as "having issues adhering to Army standards."

GEN. RICHARD MYERS, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: They didn't have standardized uniforms. They were allowed to carry guns in their civilian clothes when they were off duty. They had things written on their cap. They didn't particularly want to salute.

MCINTYRE: Also under fire the Pentagon's approved rules for pressuring prisoners. A list of interrogation rules of engagement provided to Congress includes isolation for longer than 30 days, sleep adjustment, sensory deprivation and stress positions for up to 45 minutes at a time.

SEN. RICHARD DURBIN (D), ILLINOIS: And let me tell you your interrogation rules of engagement, the ones that are published, go far beyond the Geneva Convention.

MYERS: Those are appropriate and that's what we're told by legal authorities and by anybody that believes in humane behavior.

DURBIN: I would just conclude.

(END VIDEOTAPE) MCINTYRE: As he wrapped up his congressional testimony, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld admitted that the revelations of abuse at the Iraqi prison have been "a body blow to the United States" and he warned that with six investigations underway it's doubtless that there will be more revelations of abuse to come -- Aaron.

BROWN: Let's go back to the approved techniques. They talk about sleep adjustment. This is denying people sleep?

MCINTYRE: Well, interrupting their sleep or depriving them of some amount of sleep or sometimes reversing their sleep schedule, making them stay up all night and then sleep all day, just to set them off, get them off mentally.

BROWN: And stress positions?

MCINTYRE: That can be kneeling in a position or in an uncomfortable position. In fact, one of the investigations of possible abuse in Afghanistan is looking at whether a prisoner died because he was kneeling for so long that he got a blood clot that caused his death, even though he may have had some other injuries, so that's what they're talking about there.

BROWN: Is it a pretty shaken place, the Pentagon, these days?

MCINTYRE: There is great concern about the prospects for victory, not a military victory. As General Myers said today they don't think they can lose this militarily but they also don't think they can win it militarily. They're very concerned about the political situation.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you, good to see you here in your town for a change.

On to the other images driving the news tonight. The first pictures of the fallout from the prisoner abuse scandal arrived yesterday and they are horrific.

Today, the FBI said it's opening an investigation into the murder of Nic Berg, the 26-year-old American beheaded in what his killers called the revenge for the abuse of Iraqi prisoners. The timing and the circumstance of Mr. Berg's murder are murky to say the least. Today his family said the U.S. government bears some responsibility.

Here's CNN's Maria Hinojosa.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA (voice-over): The FBI says its agents offered Nick Berg safe passage out of Iraq warning the young man that Iraq was a volatile place for an unprotected American. Michael Berg, his father, says his son told him he turned down the offer of a flight out because the road to the airport was too dangerous to travel.

On Wednesday, though, the family had to deal with the unfortunate reality of death, a father meeting with a funeral director to discuss laying his 26-year-old son to rest, a family in mourning but now also angry, not only at hooded murderers but at the U.S. government for denying that Nic Berg was ever detained by U.S. authorities in Iraq.

VOICE OF MICHAEL BERG, FATHER: That's really what cost my son his life was the fact that the United States government saw fit to keep him in custody for 13 days without any of his due process or civil rights and released him when they were good and ready.

HINOJOSA: Brother David also broke his silence saying that Nicholas had sent e-mails from Iraq about being held in U.S. custody. While detained in Iraq, the Berg family sued Donald Rumsfeld and the Department of Defense on April 5th demanding Nicholas' release. One day later Nic Berg was let go and the suit was dropped.

SARA BERG, NIC BERG'S SISTER: My family is devastated.

HINOJOSA: His sister spoke briefly and emotionally, the sorrow etched on her face. Nic Berg was, according to friends, a humanitarian and an adventurer.

BRUCE HAUSER, NEIGHBOR: So he saw it as an opportunity to drum up some business for his own company and, knowing Nic, when he got there Nic's all about rebuilding, you know, and I'm certain that Nic had it in his mind that he's going to do something to help.

HINOJOSA: But Nicholas Berg never fulfilled his promise to himself, lost amid the confusion of war in the post 9/11 new world order that his father searching for blame tries to understand.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HINOJOSA: Now just a few minutes ago, Nic Berg's mother and father came out in the quiet of the night and tried to rearrange some of the flowers that people have been dropping off all throughout the day.

They asked us all to turn off our generators, to not wake them up in the morning and they told us that they have plans now for a private memorial to be held for family and friends for Nic Berg this Friday -- Aaron.

BROWN: Maria, thank you, Maria Hinojosa outside Philadelphia tonight.

Timing often shapes context. That is true tonight. The video of Nic Berg's beheading comes on the heels of the photographs from Abu Ghraib. In Iraq, this collision of disturbing images had made for complicated reactions.

From Iraq tonight here's CNN's Ben Wedeman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): A barrage of jarring images has bombarded Iraq of late. Fighting and destruction in Najaf and Fallujah, abuse of Iraqi prisoners by American soldiers, and now the brutal videotaped beheading of an American civilian. The head of Iraq's Governing Council denounced Nicholas Berg's killing.

ABDEL ZAHRA OSMAN MOHAMMAD, IRAQI GOVERNING COUNCIL (through translator): We condemn, the Iraqi people condemns this crime. Islam condemns this crime.

WEDEMAN: We heard the same thing outside.

"Slaughtering a human being is a very horrifying thing and, as an Iraqi, it was hard to watch such a brutal act," says Professor (unintelligible).

"Somehow they're punishing the Americans for what they did to the prisoners but two wrongs don't make a right" says Nisthene (ph) a student.

Reaction to Berg's killing is tinged by intense anger over prisoner abuse, a far more emotional issue for Iraqis than the brutal murder of an American civilian.

"After they abused and dishonored the prisoners they deserved this" says Saleh (ph).

And on the street skepticism about whether the man attributed with the murder even exists.

"I don't think there's anyone named Abu Musab al-Zarqawi" says Namen (ph). "It's a name the Americans invented upon which to hang all the mistakes of the resistance."

Some blame it all on the coalition's failure to control Iraq's porous borders.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know that Iraq now is open, open state, and anyone can enter into Iraq without any, any barriers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN: Now, Aaron, the events of the last month and a half with fighting in Fallujah, Najaf, Karbala, Baghdad, political uncertainty, the prisoner abuse scandal and now, of course, these images, these gruesome images of the beheading of Nicholas Berg have all added up to create a gloom here that you can almost touch.

BROWN: Ben, when you talk about the images that they're seeing in the Berg case what is Al-Jaz showing? What is Al Aribiya showing? Are they showing the whole thing or not?

WEDEMAN: Well, actually I've been monitoring them very closely and they've been very careful only to show essentially what CNN and some of the other networks are showing, which is really just Berg in a chair making a statement and some of the images of those five hooded and masked men behind him.

But the images people are seeing, of course, are on the Internet and we've been going around some Internet cafes. Everybody is aware of it. Lots of people have seen them and lots of people are disgusted by it.

I mean these are images that are shocking to anyone regardless of what their political standing is but, as I said, the Arabic news networks have been fairly judicious in their use of these disturbing images.

BROWN: Ben, thank you, Ben Wedeman in Baghdad today.

On to the White House now where agree or disagree with how he's doing it or even whether he should, the president is furiously juggling both policy and politics.

Twenty years ago or so, President Jimmy Carter waged an election campaign at a terrible moment for Americans in Iran. It aged him enormously. He lost the election. The current president shows no signs of aging and he's working hard, very hard to avoid losing.

Again our Senior White House Correspondent John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): Outside the White House a forceful condemnation.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is no justification for the brutal execution of Nicholas Berg, no justification whatsoever.

KING: And a familiar refrain.

BUSH: We will complete our mission. We will complete our task.

KING: At one end of the helicopter ride, the commander-in-chief voicing resolve in the face of another setback in Iraq. At the other end, a candidate for reelection seeking to soften his image and remind voters war is not his only focus.

BUSH: We believe every child can read.

KING: New ads revive the compassionate conservative theme of the last campaign.

NARRATOR: As president, he signed the most significant education reforms in 35 years.

KING: And, on the Internet, enlisting the first lady as part of the image makeover.

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: The president is so committed to education reform because he looks at schools as a parent looks at schools.

KING: For a wartime president there is no refuge from events like the prisoner abuse scandal or the execution of an American citizen and the Bush campaign has actively encouraged the commander- in-chief theme. But a majority of Americans now disapprove of how Mr. Bush is handling Iraq. His overall job approval rating is at its lowest point and Democrat John Kerry gets higher marks on handling the economy.

STU ROTHENBERG, ROTHENBERG POLITICAL REPORT: When there's so much war news it's hard for the president to show a complete range of who he is as a president. He's going to have to do that over the next five months.

KING: The Bush campaign knows Iraq is dominating national headlines but the ads, daily campaign events and more up close and personal campaigning are all designed to make war at least a bit less of the picture by election day.

ROTHENBERG: A likeable guy, a decent approachable person, that's an important asset to have if you're running for reelection, particularly if you're running against a Democrat who does not have an image as particularly approachable, soft and likeable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Just watch the president and you see this delicate, often difficult balance. On the one hand day-to-day management of an increasingly controversial Iraq policy, on the other the campaign's longer term objective, trying amid the daily images and challenges of war, Aaron, to soften his image just a bit.

BROWN: It's an interesting problem because you look at polls and polls will say the economy still is the issue but the daily drumbeat of news out of Iraq has to shape the campaign. Do they believe they can escape the bad news?

KING: No. They don't believe they can escape it at all but they believe come November you don't know how big Iraq will be. Of course it's big now and it's dominant. Come November, especially remember millions and millions of dollars are being spent for a tiny sliver of the A as particularly approachable, soft and likable.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Just watch the president and you see this delicate, often difficult balance. On the one hand day-to-day management of an increasingly controversial Iraq policy, on the other the campaign's longer term objective, trying amid the daily images and challenges of war, Aaron, to soften his image just a bit.

BROWN: It's an interesting problem because you look at polls and polls will say the economy still is the issue but the daily drumbeat of news out of Iraq has to shape the campaign. Do they believe they can escape the bad news?

KING: No. They don't believe they can escape it at all but they believe come November you don't know how big Iraq will be. Of course it's big now and it's dominant.

Come November, especially remember millions and millions of dollars are being spent for a tiny sliver of the American electorate, 40-something percent are going to vote Bush, 40-something Kerry. You're fighting over this little group in the middle and they care about healthcare. They care about jobs. They care about education. The president can't "forget them" now.

BROWN: So, all of this that's going to play out over the next six, seven months is about a half a dozen, about a dozen states and a few million voters really.

KING: Some think maybe up to 15 or 18 states now but certainly you're playing in the middle. You're playing for about ten to 15 percent of the American electorate.

BROWN: John, thank you, John King with us tonight or we're with him as the case may be.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, our discussion of the Iraq prison photos that were shown to Congress today. Senator Bill Nelson of Florida joins us.

And later, a soldier who signed up for the college benefits and who learned that soldiering in wartime is something else entirely, a break first.

From the nation's capital, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The videos and the photographs taken at Abu Ghraib Prison and shown to members of Congress today remain in the custody of the Pentagon, at least for now. Whether they should be made public remains a matter of fierce debate in Washington and around the country, a debate now complicated by the murder of Nic Berg, we think.

We heard from Senator Bill Nelson, the Democrat of Florida, at the top of the program in Joe Johns' report. The Senator serves on the Senate Armed Services Committee and we spoke with him in Washington earlier tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Senator, the pictures you saw today, do they change in a significant way your perception? Would they change our perception of the story?

NELSON: Yes. You just can't believe with the kind of values that we have that our troops would be treating prisoners this way. Now, what I saw was a lot of the pictures that we've already seen in the newspapers.

And one of them that was very revealing was the one of the cellblock where you see several prisoners going about their normal duties with this clump of people that are tied together and naked.

In today's picture I saw that photo not cropped and you could see more soldiers. There were perhaps seven or eight there. Now, when people start talking about we're going to try to pin this on seven or eight Army privates, you got to go up the chain of command and we got to find out where the command and control broke down.

BROWN: Because that picture says to you this was so commonplace that no one even turned an eye to it?

NELSON: And that's what it appears. It was business as usual and that is just violating the standards that we have as Americans.

BROWN: One of your colleagues yesterday said he was outraged by the outrage that it's all been over the top. I gather you see that differently. Why don't you address that?

NELSON: Well, it is outrageous but, you know, Americans stand for our constitutional rights and the respect for law and respect for each other and tolerance and that's not what you see in these photographs.

BROWN: Do you understand even as it's somewhat inexplicable that these are young soldiers that these detainees, these prisoners are brought in, they believe them to be very bad actors who have been out killing their comrades out there, do you see how they could behave this way?

NELSON: I could see that when command and control breaks down. If there's not discipline then under wartime conditions anything can happen. That's why you've got to have a strict discipline and a strict control and, Aaron, let's don't lose sight of the fact that 99.9 percent of our soldiers we are so proud of them, of what they're doing in protecting this country.

The other sad part of this is that what is our goal in Iraq? It is to stabilize Iraq so that we can turn it over to the Iraqi people and this kind of thing only inflames the passions in the Muslim world and delays us from achieving that goal.

BROWN: In that regard, should the country, and ultimately the world, see these pictures that you saw today, see it all, get it all out there as in some respects inevitably it will be of course given the world we live in? Should we dump them out there so everyone can see them even knowing that it will, at least in the short haul and maybe longer, make things worse?

NELSON: In a word, yes. They're going to get out. A lot of them we saw today are already out. They're going to with three, four, five of these compact discs in circulation they're going to leak out. So, let's get them out. Get it behind us and move on to our goal of having Iraq being a stabilized country.

BROWN: Just one more. The whole idea of getting it behind us do you think this becomes the kind of iconic moment of the war in Iraq that in some respects we will never get this behind us?

NELSON: I hope not. I hope for our sake and I hope for the people in that region of the world for their sake.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in tonight.

NELSON: It's a pleasure.

BROWN: Nice to meet you in person finally.

NELSON: Well, I've been a fan of yours.

BROWN: Thank you. You're very kind. Thank you, Senator.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Bill Nelson, the Democratic Senator from the State of Florida.

On consecutive nights on the program we've grappled with the photos from Abu Ghraib and those of Nic Berg's murder, show both, show one, show neither. In choosing do we draw an equivalency between the Army and the terrorists?

Believe me none of this is easy or simple. Our next guest tonight knows that very well. Today she and her colleagues at the "Dallas Morning News" decided to run a picture of Nic Berg's severed head on its editorial page, blacked out to be sure but recognizable for what it is.

Keven Willey is the paper's editorial page editor and we're pleased that she joins us from Dallas tonight. Actually, we've debated whether to show this or not and I actually think we could and others disagree. Why don't you describe how you did this and we'll go for the why after that?

KEVEN WILLEY, "DALLAS MORNING NEWS": Certainly. It's our lead editorial tomorrow. The headline on the editorial is "This is the Enemy." There is a picture of the alleged al Qaeda terrorist holding up the head. We have blackened out however entirely the head so there is no image of the head.

All you see is the terrorist and his arm raised but it communicates a great power and it shows the image of what, as you say, everybody is talking about and so many people who have web access have already seen.

BROWN: Why do it?

WILLEY: We're in the news business, the commentary business. This is news. This is the latest thing that has happened. I think it is important that Americans see reality and that is what we are about.

Now, we also exercise and have a responsibility to exercise judgment, good judgment, good journalism and we have sought to do that here by presenting the image of reality in as tasteful or non-gruesome way as possible.

BROWN: Yes, I was looking for a word other than tasteful earlier. I think non-gruesome works. Do you -- did you consider ever running more than you're running? WILLEY: We did but only in the sense of rather than having it blacked out. It is a very blackened image now. We had considered digitizing it much as television does. We looked at that image and even that we felt was borderline gruesome.

It didn't quite -- we decided in the beginning that, if we were going to do this, we wanted to do it in a responsible way and stick to some narrow principles. And we felt that the -- digitizing it didn't quite achieve that. And that's why we went with this particular route.

BROWN: Well, not that my opinion on these things or much of anything else matters, but I think you did it exactly right. and I think the message gets conveyed. And, in that regard, good for you for having the courage do it. Thank you.

WILLEY: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you, Keven Willey, who is the editorial page editor at "The Dallas Morning News." We appreciate her time and we appreciate as well when they send the paper our way in the morning.

Coming up on the program, the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, what the bishops promised to do about it and whether those promises are being fulfilled or falling short.

From Washington, D.C., this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It has often been said that the cover-up is worse than the crime, even with a horrible crime, perhaps especially so. In the case of the priest abuse scandal in the Catholic Church, the cover-up amounted to a violation that played out over and over again year in and year out, insult added to injuries that could only fester in the darkness for the children and the church.

When the scandals came to light, it seemed the bishops of the church understood, many of them at least, or did they?

Here is CNN's Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two years ago, U.S. Catholic bishops publicly adopted an unprecedented charter to address sexual abuse. They agreed to audits to ensure diocese cooperate. They agreed to form a national review board of laypeople to oversee the audits. Now that board says church leaders privately are trying to delay audits and manipulate board members.

ANNE BURKE, CHAIRWOMAN, NATIONAL LAY REVIEW BOARD: Early on, it appears that there was a movement and a lobbying effort made to postpone the audits. That's all I can say.

CARROLL: The bishops' resistance spelled out in letters obtained by CNN. New York's Cardinal Egan, he writes a report that, "The undersigned are not in favor of extending these efforts until after the matter is discussed by all of the bishops in November," similar letters signed by two dozen bishops in cities like Omaha, Newark, Philadelphia.

Kathleen McChesney says waiting until November would leave too little time for her office to audit all 195 U.S. diocese this year.

KATHLEEN MCCHESNEY, OFFICE OF CHILD AND YOUTH PROTECTION: The problem that is created right now started when we tried to get the funding approved for the next round of audits. And that's what generated the discussion and obviously the letters that you've now learned of.

CARROLL: The board, outraged, wrote its own letter, saying it felt manipulated, adding, a delay would stymie audits the bishops had mandated.

(on camera): On Wednesday, after inquiries from CNN, the head of the U.S. Conference of Bishops said they'll take up the issue in June. But he also added annual audits may not be necessary.

DAVID CLOHESSY, CHURCH ABUSE VICTIM: They have said over and over and over and over, we will commit ourselves to these annual audits. And if they can't be trusted to keep even one of the smallest promises, how can we trust them on more crucial issues?

CARROLL: A question bishops eventually will have to answer.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT from Washington, the reality of war that all soldiers face, but even more so in what until recently had been a peacetime Army.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Wars change, but certain things about war itself are timeless. If you fight, if you shoot or get shot at, if you witness war up close and firsthand, you are changed by the experience.

Sophocles wrote in the 5th century B.C., "War loves to seek its victims in the young." And often, we would add, even when the soldiers survives, the victim is youth.

Here is CNN's Jane Arraf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): There is not much that is black and white in this war or in a soldier's life. Specialist Josh Domina turned 21 in Iraq. And like most soldiers here, he has seen more than anyone should have to see in a lifetime. Three weeks ago, his unit was ambushed near Kufa. He fired at two men with weapons running out of the woods, killing them.

SPC. JOSH DOMINA, U.S. ARMY: First time I actually had to shoot somebody.

ARRAF (on camera): Must have really (OFF-MIKE) awful.

DOMINA: Yes, it still is.

ARRAF (voice-over): Domina is a gunner. He joined the Army to get a college education. But here, he says, he's learned it is kill or be killed.

DOMINA: I joined the military, you know, I was like, at first I was all, hey, shoot back at people, get cool guns, all this, yadda, yadda, yadda. And then I actually got out here you know, and you worry about -- you face the reality that you're in danger for your life every day. So you gotta watch your buddy's back, because you know they'll watch yours.

ARRAF: He says he knows the people he killed had families they'll never go home to.

DOMINA: Growing up, love your enemy. So, even after I ended up killing those two guys, I still prayed for them because you just gotta.

ARRAF: Domina and his buddies from Iron Troop thought they would be back in the United States by now. Instead, just days from leaving Baghdad for home, the 1st Armored Division was sent south to fight the Mahdi militia.

After 13 months at war, there is no sugarcoating what this is like. Specialist Jesse Riley says he's comfortably numb.

SPC. JESSE RILEY, U.S. ARMY: Your hands get so cold and your fingers start to hurt. And then it gets so cold and hurts so bad, you don't feel it anymore. That's what it is like. It sucks so bad, you just don't even feel it.

DOMINA: They mortar every night. They shoot every night. I wake up. You know it is bad when you wake up in the middle of the night you hear explosions all over the place, gunfire on the roof. And you look up and you go, eh, and you roll back over and go back to sleep. You know that's bad. That's just not normal.

ARRAF: In this unfinished building they sleep in, they cling to things that are normal, like movies. They wait for hours to get into the tiny Internet cafe.

DOMINA: I signed in at 6:30. It is about 8:45 now. And they still got about 12 names to go through.

ARRAF: They say, if they couldn't sit around and complain, they would go nuts. In the morning, Domina cleans his gun, getting ready to hit the streets again.

DOMINA: Hopefully, I don't have to use her.

ARRAF: Hopefully one day closer to being home.

Jane Arraf, CNN, Najaf, Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, a story that has been overlooked, but not tonight, from a corner of the world where the lives of countless people are at risk.

A break first. From Washington, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Among the many stories being overshadowed by events in Iraq and other places is the crisis in Sudan. More than 100,000 people have fled the country's western region, where Arab militias have been attacking the local black population. The United Nations has accused Sudan's government of tolerating ethnic cleansing, a charge Sudan denies.

In any case, refugees are pouring into neighboring Chad. U.N. officials call it a major humanitarian crisis.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour tonight from the Chad border.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bahai is so poor, it can barely sustain itself. But for more than a year, it has been sharing its meager resources with 15,000 refugees. The U.N. and other international agencies only turned up a few months ago and they still haven't managed to set up camps this far north. Now they're in a race against time to keep all these people alive.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The rainy season is coming at the end of May, beginning of June. All this area will be completely flooded.

AMANPOUR: Children are now dying of preventable diseases like diarrhea for lack of water and health care. Helen Court (ph) tries to give this little girl rehydration salts. Her mother then tries to drip feed her with a syringe. But she won't take the liquid.

Dr. Camilo Valderama (ph) works for the International Rescue Committee. His job is to try to plug the health care hole. Chad has exactly 271 doctors for a population estimated at over nine million.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here in the Port (UNINTELLIGIBLE) area, there is one technical agent who has basic, basic training for 30,000 people almost.

AMANPOUR (on camera): One for 30,000 people? (voice-over): The babies are the most vulnerable. This little boy is 22 days old, his parents say. And yet he's not growing. His hands are shriveled, his face that of an old man. Severe malnutrition, says Dr. Camilo.

These people say they had a decent life in Darfur until the Sudanese government, which is Arab, went to war against Darfur's indigenous African people, a war for power and resources. The refugees told us about the attacks.

"They send in aircraft to bomb our villages," says Ahmed Salah (ph). "And then the militias come on horseback and burn down our houses and take all our possessions." Adam Suleman (ph) told us they killed the men and brutally attacked the women and young girls.

(on camera): So they're raping old women and young women?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

AMANPOUR (voice-over): So just at this border point alone, the refugees keep coming.

(on camera): Every week, about 300 new refugees are crossing this riverbed, which forms the border between the Darfur region of Sudan and Chad. They're fleeing what amounts to a campaign of ethnic cleansing, conducted by the Sudanese Army and its marauding militia called the janjaweed. According to American and other human rights officials, thousands of Sudanese villagers have been killed. About a million are displaced within Darfur itself. And another 125,000 have had to flee to exile here in Chad.

(voice-over): With great difficulty, the U.N. and Human Rights Watch gained access to Darfur and paint a picture of appalling human rights abuses, including crimes against humanity that match the testimony of survivors. The U.S. and Europe have brokered a fragile cease-fire. Yet they say the militias continue their reign of terror.

Back across the border in Chad, the IRC is burning the refugees' only wealth, the carcasses of their animals which are dying of exhaustion and lack of food and water.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The goat, the sheep are food. And the donkeys are transport. So without their animals, they really have no resources left.

AMANPOUR: Further north, in Carfur (ph), the U.N. is making its first (AUDIO GAP)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We're pushing it a little bit to try and get a live signal out of Chad. And we almost made it, Christiane Amanpour in a pretty discouraging piece of reporting there on the situation in Sudan and across the border.

Morning papers after the break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. This is hard to do in New York, where I know the cameras are. We'll see how this goes tonight. I sort of feel like I'm in "Jeopardy." It was kind of an inside joke for those of you who actually follow the program every single day.

"The International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times," pretty much all Iraq on the front page. "Two More G.I.s Facing Trial Over Abuse Of Iraqis, But Rumsfeld Denies International Rules Were Broken." And in the middle of the front page, "Americans United In Shock Over Beheading." That is "The International Herald Tribune." I wish I had seen this story. Oh, well, we'll just tell you that story another night.

It's a new town. I'm just learning how to do this here.

"The Christian Science Monitor." "Chain of Command Under Fire. Senator are Probing How High the Chain of Command Responsibility Lies For the Alleged Prisoner Abuses in Abu Ghraib." Are the alleged when we have actually seen them? I'm not sure they're alleged. In any case, John King, our senior White House correspondent, reporting tonight that there is a lot of feeling in Washington that some civilian has to -- in the Pentagon has to take the fall for what has gone on there, or someone at least higher up in the chain of command than we have gone.

It is Wapello? I forgot how to pronounce it. Wapello. This is "The Des Moines Register." And these sorts of stories appear all too often. "Navy Seabees Buried in Wapello," a town in Iowa. "Iowa Native Died a Hero." And it is just one of those pictures on the front page that will absolutely break your heart. Anyway, "The Des Moines Register" today.

How are we doing on time there, Sharon (ph)? OK.

"The Grant County Herald Independent." That, as you know, is Wisconsin's oldest newspaper. "The President Stops During Bus Trip. 'Impromptu" -- in quotes -- "Visit Weeks in the Planning." This is why presidents go on the road, and not just to shake the hands of a few voters, but they know they're going to get front-page coverage no matter what the news of the world is that day. "Bush Travels Through County He Lost Four Years Ago" is also on the front page. And then a story I haven't had a chance to look at, "Aquatic Therapy Helps Those in Pain in Recovery." That's the front of "The Grant County Herald Independent" in Grant County, Wisconsin.

"The Philadelphia." Yes, I want to do "The Philadelphia Inquirer." This is Nick Berg's hometown paper. And so it leads that way. "U.S. Denies Holding Berg." We talked about this a little while ago. I absolutely love this front page.

This comes from "The North Platte Bulletin," Lincoln County's news alternative. That would be North Platte, Nebraska. You've got to kind of read this, OK? It is a story on gas prices. "Cash Or Credit? Regular, An Arm; Plus, a Leg; Premium, First Born." I guess we get the message there. That's "The North Platte Bulletin," a weekly newspaper.

The weather in Chicago tomorrow, by the way, is "rowdy."

(CHIMES)

BROWN: We don't have "The Sun-Times." But, if we did, we would show it to you and we still play the silly noise.

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we leave you for the night, a quick look ahead at tomorrow's "AMERICAN MORNING." Here is Bill Hemmer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, thanks.

Tomorrow here on "AMERICAN MORNING," Democratic Senator Ted Kennedy is our guest, an outspoken critic of the war in Iraq, making some very controversial comments about the prisoner abuse scandal, basically suggesting that Saddam Hussein's torture chamber had been replaced by an American one. We'll ask him about it tomorrow morning, 7:00 a.m. Eastern time here on "AMERICAN MORNING." Hope to see you then -- Aaron.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Thank you. That's pretty harsh. That's tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING."

Tomorrow, we'll be back in New York City, if all goes well. We'll see you then.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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