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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
President Bush Addresses the Nation; Oregon Attorney Cleared in Connection with Madrid Train Bombings;
Aired May 24, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
Much of the program tonight deals with the president's speech a short time ago what he said and what people here and around the world wanted to hear. It comes with the president at a low point in his term if you give polls on such matters such credence.
There are a bunch of polls out there today and they tell similar stories. On Iraq, the country is losing confidence, though not necessarily patience with the war and how it's being run.
In a "Washington Post" poll, two-thirds say the country is now bogged down. Another six in ten say the president lacks a clear plan. Those were the people the president was working tonight in his speech and we'll hear from some of them tonight and others too.
The president tops the program and begins the whip. So, we begin at the Army War College and our Senior White House Correspondent John King, John a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, no new policy proposals from the president tonight but the commander-in-chief did try to confront those doubts you just mentioned, trying to reassure the American people and also one symbolic gesture aimed at the Iraqi people -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. We get to you at the top tonight.
Down the road a bit in Dover, Pennsylvania, Judy Woodruff spent the evening with potential voters, Judy, good to have you, a headline tonight.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, about 30 miles from where the president spoke in this electoral battleground state of Pennsylvania, we gathered six voters with very different ideas about the war. We had them watch the president on TV and we'll tell you whether he changed any minds -- Aaron.
BROWN: Judy, thank you.
Next to Baghdad and what Iraqis expect on the 30th of June and in the days that follow, CNN's Harris Whitbeck cover that for us, a headline from you tonight.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, Iraqis have heard about the handover plans. They're looking forward to it but they are uncertain about the course their nation might take.
BROWN: Harris, thank you.
And finally what looks like a major snafu, not necessarily the first in the war on terror, the case of Brandon Mayfield, CNN's Kelli Arena with the developments there, Kelli a headline.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Portland lawyer Brandon Mayfield has been cleared of any involvement in the Madrid train bombings. The FBI says it was working off a bum copy of a fingerprint found near the scene of those bombings which led to his two week detention.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you, back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up on this Monday night, the fog of war thickens as home video raises new questions about an attack by U.S. forces. Was an Iraqi wedding party the target?
Also in a war with many firefights, Nissen tonight looks at one, the causes, the losses the story as told by those who lived through it.
And, of course, when the rooster crows you know what that mean, like it or not, your morning papers coming up in a little bit, all that in and more in the hour ahead.
We begin with President Bush and his primetime address to the nation. Every speech has its backdrop three numbers were a big part of tonight. With 38 days to go until the Iraqis are handed power and five months remaining until the presidential election in this country, the death toll for U.S. troops in Iraq now stands at 797.
With his approval ratings as low as they've ever been, the goal for Mr. Bush tonight was to convince the country, perhaps the world, that he has a plan to complete the mission.
We begin tonight with our Senior White House Correspondent John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): At the Army War College, the commander-in- chief confronting mounting doubts about his war plan and his leadership.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must keep our focus. We must do our duty.
KING: The one new promise was aimed at easing the pain of the prisoner abuse scandal.
BUSH: With the approval of the Iraqi government we will demolish the Abu Ghraib Prison as a fitting symbol of Iraq's new beginning.
KING: That new beginning is detailed in a new United Nations resolution the United States and Britain circulated Monday. The draft resolution calls for a sovereign interim government by June 30th and elections to pick a transitional government no later than January, 2005, promises to train new Iraqi military and police forces and, in the meantime, gives U.S. and other coalition troops authority to take all necessary measures to maintain security.
BUSH: I sent American troops to Iraq to defend our security not to stay as an occupying power. I sent American troops to Iraq to make its people free not to make them American.
KING: The nearly 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq now will stay after the transfer of sovereignty and...
BUSH: If they need more troops I will send them.
KING: The War College atmosphere was much more sober than the president's dramatic carrier visit a year ago to declare major combat in Iraq over. One hundred thirty-nine Americans had been killed in Iraq at that point. The death toll is nearly six times that now and Mr. Bush's political standing has declined as doubts about his Iraq policy have mushroomed.
Forty-seven percent of Americans now approve of how Mr. Bush is handling his job, down 13 points since January and down 22 points from a year ago. This was the first of a series of speeches planned in the five weeks until the transfer of sovereignty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And missing from that speech any mention at all, no date certain at all for bringing U.S. troops home so in the five weeks until the transfer of sovereignty and then in the five months until the presidential election it's a pretty safe bet, Aaron, that whether this president has a clear exit strategy will remain a key debating point.
BROWN: I want to try and ask two questions. Other than the Abu Ghraib Prison tear down, I did not hear anything new. What are these other four speeches going to be if there's not new in them?
KING: Well, as he gives the additional speeches you will have the names of the new president, the two vice presidents and the prime minister in Iraq. You will have more on how the U.S. forces will interact with the new government, who has the power, if you will, in certain situations.
So, the president tonight hoping, trying to reframe what is -- yes, everything he said tonight was already known but the White House believes the American people have lost track of it because of the violence and because of the prisoner abuse scandal. So, as we go on weekly updates essentially until the transfer of sovereignty.
BROWN: OK. Thing two here when the president tonight talked about the U.N. resolution he talked about it essential as a fete accompli. Everything I've heard today is that there's actually quite a bit of wheeling and dealing going on there. Is it your impression that it's a done deal?
KING: I would never say that given the history of this issue in the Security Council. The White House is confident they will get a resolution but already, and these are the same actors as before, France raising some objections, Germany raising some objections.
Most of all they want a date certain for pulling out U.S. troops. They want it much more clearly defined. If U.S. troops stay in Iraq once there is a sovereign government they, France and Germany and others, want those troops to answer to the sovereign government.
The White House says no. There will be a letter of understanding but no firm authority, so much still to be worked out. The White House says it's a much different environment than before the war but I would not call it a fete accompli until that thing passes the Security Council.
BROWN: John, thank you very much, John King our Senior White House Correspondent.
The White House said tonight's speech would not skimp on specifics. The president we were told would spell out a clear strategy for Iraq to reassure the country that there is an end to the mission.
Our Senior Analyst Jeff Greenfield watched the speech tonight. He watched it from Naples, Florida and he joins us from there tonight. Jeff, because I don't think there was a whole lot new, perhaps what matters here is the moment or the context the speech was given in.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Yes and I think if -- I remember Bill Russell when he was a basketball analyst with a particularly pithy piece of analysis. When things go bad they go bad.
Just imagine the White House. They're getting ready for this major offensive. What happens? Last week the president goes up to Capitol Hill to rally the Republicans. All the press reports are he disappointed them. He didn't even answer questions.
Last night several million Americans turned on "60 Minutes." What did they see? The former Marine Corps Commandant Anthony Zinni saying the whole idea was misconceived. The execution was screwed up and Rumsfeld and all of his civilians were guilty of dereliction of duty and should resign.
Even the setting, Aaron, the Army War College turns out to be the place that in January published a scathing review of the war on terror and the war in Iraq by a former Senate staffer under their aegis, the Army War College.
So, the point that John King is making that the White House wants to make it clear to the public that there's a clear plan to get out is being offered, this first version, in a context that couldn't be more difficult for them to sell their message in -- Aaron.
BROWN: You've been in the political speech writing business and an observer of politics for a long time. Can a speech like this without a dramatic headline survive a news cycle?
GREENFIELD: Maybe it can survive a news cycle, although in this sped up period with cable news and the web maybe not but I think the point you're making is absolutely right. You know there is this notion that political spin doctors and pollsters and media experts and the Carl Roves of this world can somehow create magic.
I think in this particular story war and peace you can't do it. What the president says, even with the bully pulpit, is way, way less important than what we're going to be seeing and, if over the next few months what the president tells us is going to happen, happens, that's when you're going to see a turnaround in public opinion.
I don't think speeches no matter how well crafted can change how people perceive a story like this. Maybe it can change their minds about taxes or the environment or some domestic debate. On life and death and war and peace I'm really skeptical -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeff, thank you, Jeff Greenfield who's in Naples, Florida tonight.
We'll have much more on the president's speech later in the program. We'll hear from a couple of Senators and a number of voters as well. We'll hear from Iraqis too, all that still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, other news of the day to deal with first.
In Iraq, at an outrage over an attack by U.S. troops last week in the western desert more than 40 people were killed, both sides agree on that much at least. The U.S. military says foreign fighters and smugglers or a smuggler way station were the targets, the victims.
Iraqis say it was a wedding party that was attacked and that innocent civilians, including 13 children died. A home video is now adding further confusion to these conflicting accounts.
From the Pentagon here's CNN's Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Associated Press says it obtained this video showing vehicles on their way to a wedding party that Iraqis claim U.S. forces attacked last week killing more than 40 people including women and children.
U.S. forces say there was no evidence of a wedding party at the site they attacked, only foreign fighters, but they do not yet know where this video was taken of the celebration and the children being buried.
OSFOOK NAWAF, ATTACK WITNESS (through translator): I swear to God there was a wedding. I swear to God there were no weapons. I swear to God we did not fire one bullet.
STARR: In Baghdad, the coalition spokesman said there was a chain of evidence that the U.S. attacked a safe house for foreign fighters, photographs of documents and passports, some from Sudan, weapons and money seized and apparent drug paraphernalia.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: It is pretty clear to us that what happened that night from about after midnight until about 04:00 that the activities that we saw happening on the ground were somewhat inconsistent with a wedding party.
STARR: Military officials want to know why they did not find this tent, these musical instruments, why an organist who is seen playing in the wedding video wound up dead in the back of a truck and whether it is possible there was a wedding at a fighter's safe house. As one official said, bad guys get married too.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: If the picture there remains fuzzy it is less so tonight in the case of Brandon Mayfield, considerably less. Last week, you'll recall, Mr. Mayfield was free after two weeks in federal custody as a material witness in the Madrid train bombings, freed but still under suspicion and almost certainly under surveillance.
The FBI late last week was sticking by its claim that a fingerprint on a bag of detonators belonged to Mr. Mayfield despite evidence to the contrary, despite having made the identification not from the original print but from a copy. Today in Portland, Oregon, a federal judge said enough is enough and the FBI late today said it is sorry.
Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a stunning twist, the case against Oregon lawyer Brandon Mayfield has been thrown out, his name cleared of any involvement in the Madrid train bombings.
BRANDON MAYFIELD, LAWYER: I've been singled out and discriminated against, I feel, as a Muslim.
ARENA: The government says there was no discrimination only what officials thought was a fingerprint match.
KARIN IMMERGUT, U.S. ATTORNEY: The original fingerprint that identified Mr. Mayfield was based on a computer match supported by the analysis of fingerprint experts at the FBI lab in Quantico who had nothing and had never heard of Brandon Mayfield.
ARENA: The problem, according to the FBI, was that examiners were working off what officials say was a substandard copy of the print found at the scene of the bombings not the original. When Spanish authorities last week said the print belonged to an Algerian man, the FBI sent a team to Madrid to have a look at the real McCoy.
BOB JORDAN, FBI: The FBI regrets the hardships that this matter has placed upon Mr. Mayfield and his family.
ARENA: That may not be enough for Mayfield, who was never charged in the case but held for two weeks as a material witness. He's considered legal action.
MAYFIELD: I'm, what, two or three days out of the detention center and I'm just now starting to not shake. My blood pressure's, you know, risen. My pulse has risen. My heart hurts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: The case could prompt changes in how the FBI does fingerprint analysis. The bureau says it is considering adopting new guidelines for examiners who are not dealing with an original print -- Aaron.
BROWN: Just to be clear the FBI will say that it is just a coincidence that Mr. Mayfield is Muslim. It is just a coincidence that he once handled a legal matter, I think it was an immigration matter, for someone who in fact was involved in some sort of anti- government cell out there in Portland, Oregon. Those things are all coincidence to his arrest is that right?
ARENA: They say he was not under investigation until they found that fingerprint match. That's right, Aaron.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you very much, Kelli Arena in Washington tonight.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the president has spoken. What did voters hear? In Pennsylvania, voters will tell us what they thought.
Plus, three Marines relive the firefight that landed them in a military hospital in Germany and may very well have cost them their lives. It certainly cost the lives of their comrades there. We'll take a break first.
From New York on a Monday night this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: (AUDIO GAP) is a global audience that needs if those other countries, if any other country is going to help there has to be some sense that the American government really does know what it's doing right now, is that needle moved?
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Well, maybe. I think what maybe is helpful with the international community, which is a concern on the part of many of our friends is that we're going to leave. The president made it pretty clear we're staying and he made it clear to the Iraqi people, which I thought was useful.
For example, I was asked earlier whether or not laying out a president, vice president, et cetera, was something worth doing. I think it was worth doing for the Iraqi people.
It's putting some meat on the bones that we're really attempting to do this, laying out the electoral process, the January choice of an assembly which will then choose a constitution, will then elect a president. I think that's very useful.
So, but we already knew all that. I guess what I'm responding to is what is new that I didn't know or that those of us who deal with this every day to give us some hope that we're more likely to succeed and the success being having a stable government in Iraq, secured within its borders, not a threat to its neighbors and not possessing terrorists or weapons of mass destruction. That's the goal. I didn't hear anything about how we're more likely to accomplish that goal.
BROWN: And do you feel that's still an open question whether we and they can create that Iraq?
BIDEN: I clearly do. It's even opened wider now. I think it is doable but I didn't hear any of the things that I think need to get it done. For example, I would have liked the president to say, announce tonight after having used his capital to get it done to say we're speeding up the training of Iraqi forces.
The French and the Germans, we're taking them up on their offer. We're going to have more Arab nations with American trained military training them. We're going to open up four new facilities that will get more Iraqis dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
I would have liked to have seen him say that he said our role of our ambassador is going to be just a normal ambassador. Well who is going to be the referee between the Shia and the Sunni and the, you know, like we had in Afghanistan? Who's going to say go back to the drawing board?
I find myself in an unusual position of saying, look the United Nations is necessary but clearly not sufficient. It's necessary to get major powers involved, get the Security Council permanent five on the same page.
Get people committed to success because, Aaron, the reason I'm confident with presidential leadership they would respond is imagine what happens to the interest of France and Russia and China if, in fact, there's a civil war instead of a civil election a year from now.
BROWN: Not something I want to think about. Senator...
BIDEN: You better start thinking about it because I didn't hear an answer.
BROWN: Senator, it is always a pleasure and a privilege to have you with us. Thank you, Senator.
BIDEN: Thank you very much for having me.
BROWN: Thank you, sir, very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And he is a Senator no matter what I said earlier. Anchors have a lot of power but they can't make people presidents.
Now to the other side of the aisle which harbors a diversity of views on the war, how to fight it, how to end it and how to handle the transition of power.
Senator Saxby Chambliss, a freshman Republican from the State of Georgia, he watched the president from his home in Georgia. We're pleased to have him with us tonight too. Senator, thank you.
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: Good to be with you, Aaron.
BROWN: Did you hear anything that will make the country do you think more comfortable with the route the administration is taking or was it simply a restatement of everything everyone has heard for six months?
CHAMBLISS: Well, Aaron, I don't think the speech was intended to really come forward and lay out the details of any presidential plan or administration plan to provide for the future of the Iraqi people. What the president said all along is that the Iraqi people are going to decide that.
I did think what the president said today was two things. First of all, he established a five point plan. His critics over the last several weeks have been saying the administration has no plan.
Well, tonight he spelled out the plan that we've been operating under and that we're going to move forward with to create an independent Iraq and turn the government of Iraq over to the Iraqi people.
Secondly, I thought what he said was he made it very clear that the U.S. military is going to be there for a while. It's going to be under the control though of American commanders. It's necessary that we have security. Joe is exactly right. We don't accomplish anything without security in that country.
The president's leaving no illusions out there. There's going to be more violence both before June 30 and after June 30 but the American military is going to be there to establish security in that country.
Now there was one phrase that the president used, Aaron, that I thought was particularly significant. He said that over the last several weeks an underlying, really uncovered issue in the situation in Iraq is the dismantling of the militia there.
Well, what that means is we've been killing a bunch of bad guys and that's got to continue. We have simply got to get the security under control and we're doing that.
BROWN: Senator.
CHAMBLISS: And I thought it was...
BROWN: I'm sorry, can I just ask a question on that point because in tomorrow's -- at least in the "International Herald" and I therefore suspect "The New York Times," front page story is going to say that the United States may not be disbanding the militias at all.
The U.S. is still considering whether to disband militias. Is it possible to have a secure Iraq if you've got a bunch of little armies running around beholding to this group or that group?
CHAMBLISS: Well, it isn't possible to have security in Iraq if those insurgents or those militias are attacking American troops. That's what it's critically important that we move ahead to create an Iraqi force, a military of 35,000 people as the president said tonight and we need the Iraqis providing for their own security with our help.
We've been hand-in-hand with them in different communities and cities in Iraq over the last several days and weeks. It's working. It's working very slowly the cooperation of the Iraqi police force and the American troops but we are getting there and I think the president again was very forceful in his statement to that effect tonight. That's got to happen though if we're going to have a peaceful Iraq and an Iraq that can be run by the Iraqi people.
BROWN: Let me ask you one more question on that point then. Are you absolutely, 100 percent confident that the Iraqi -- as long as American troops are in Iraq that Iraqis will stand and fight those people who are attacking their country?
CHAMBLISS: Well they're going to have to. If they're not going to do it with us there, Aaron, then certainly they're not going to do it with us not there. We can't afford to let the insurgents come in from surrounding countries, the really truly terrorists in that part of the world and somehow secure that country themselves, somehow infiltrate the government of that country to where they really run the country.
We can't let that happen. We started this for the right reasons. We're on the right track. It's a very, very difficult and complex track but in order to get there it's going to require the presence of Americans for probably a long time to come. You'll see us downsize I hope immediately but it's still going to require us to be there for a while to come.
BROWN: Senator, we are most pleased to have you with us tonight. I hope you'll join us again soon. Thank you.
CHAMBLISS: Sure.
BROWN: Thank you.
As we said earlier the presidential election is just five months away. It seems to be the backdrop for almost everything these days. As much as President Bush was aiming to appease his critics in Congress with tonight's speech, he was also aiming to reassure voters, so did he? There's no way to know, of course, that answer at least not yet but that did not stop us from taking an unscientific pulse, if you will.
CNN's Judy Woodruff joins us tonight from Dover, Pennsylvania, Judy good evening.
WOODRUFF: Hi there, Aaron.
Well, we were already planning, in fact, to come to your county in the battleground state of Pennsylvania to sit down with a mix of Republicans and Democrats when we heard about the president's speech, so we brought our voters together.
We brought them to the home of Rhea and St. Clair (ph) Simmons to watch the president tonight and we found that they had very strong views, three of them with the president, three of them very much against this war and against the president on the war and we found that for the most part, Aaron, what the president said tonight reinforced those views.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERES ALFANO: I think he's saying that it's time and it's about time that we do let them live their own lives and start to rebuild their country the way it should be and I liked what he said about how they are non-Americans and I think that really, you know, hit you when you, you know, you have to think about that. A lot of people are like, OK, we're over there so they need to conform to us. That's not what he's asking.
RHEA SIMMONS: I'm just feeling I'm hearing a lot of double speak when it comes to the war and, again, I can't help but remember that we created this situation. We are the ones who went in there without the U.N.
RAY VAN DE CASTLE: The five point plan is something that I would have been more encouraged by if we had heard it soon after we had attacked them. I think one of the biggest faults of attacking Iraq was we assumed or they assumed that when we attacked the country that these people were going to come out and hug and kiss us and say thank God you're here. You're saving us and now we're getting knifed in the back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: Now, one of the women in the group who supports President Bush on the war did, in fact, question the fact that there are so many American troops in Iraq and so few troops from other countries.
But bottom line I think you'd have to say, Aaron, is that everybody said no matter what the president says what's really going to matter to them is what happens on the ground and that's what they're watching to see in the days and the weeks and the months to come and they hope it is over soon.
BROWN: Well, they're not alone in that. I'm with them on that. I hope it's over soon too. Judy, thank you. It's good to have you with us tonight, Judy Woodruff who is in Pennsylvania tonight.
Coming up still we'll go to Iraq, Iraq in a perfect world, what do Iraqi citizens think it could be like or should be like when the Americans are no longer there? We'll take a break first.
Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: We've heard from a range of people tonight about Iraq and its future, not one of whom can speak for the 25 million people who have the most at stake when power changes hands on the 30th of June. What Iraqis themselves want and hope for their future is where we turn now.
The story reported by CNN's Harris Whitbeck.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As he has nearly every day for the last decade, 33-year-old Ali Hussein drives a taxi in Baghdad. Navigating the teeming streets affords him a unique view on the Iraq of today.
ALI HUSSEIN, TAXI DRIVER (through translator): I'm the first person to know if anything happens on streets, explosions and so on. We can say that I know just about anything that happens in the capital.
WHITBECK: He also knows that his country is in for a change after June 30. Like many here, Ali is not sure of what that might entail. But he says any change will be good.
A. HUSSEIN (through translator): We must have a tangible change in order for us to look beyond the present and into the future.
WHITBECK: That future is what preoccupies Hassanein Hussein. At 24, he's about to graduate from Baghdad University. And, as he prepares to enter the work force, he's concerned about the form a new government might take.
HASSANEIN HUSSEIN, STUDENT (through translator): We don't want religious leaders to take over the power. They have the right to preserve their religious power, but they should not exercise political power.
WHITBECK: For religious leaders like Sheik Ahmed Abdul Jafor (ph), religious and political powers are entwined. The sheik is eager for the American occupation to end, but he says foreign troops should stay under a different flag.
SHEIK AHMED, RELIGIOUS LEADER (through translator): If the Iraqis saw with their own eyes the Americans pulled out their forces and replaced them with United Nations forces, they would feel secure about picking their representatives for the elections. WHITBECK: The U.N. has begun the long process of establishing an Iraqi government by processing nominations for an electoral commission. That could work, says taxi driver Ali, if there is real balance.
A. HUSSEIN (through translator): For democracy to work, equality must be imposed where all the religions and classes of society are considered equal.
WHITBECK: Hassanein, the college student, isn't too sure. He likes the idea of Iraq becoming a federal republic with all factions equally represented in government, but he is skeptical.
H. HUSSEIN (through translator): Such an idea looks good on paper, but when it comes to reality, it will not work.
WHITBECK: Sheik Ahmed thinks the democracy could work if the U.S. stays out of it.
AHMED (through translator): An elected government is the best solution, but only if the United Nations gets involved. It is a shame that the Americans do not understand the nature of the Iraqi people. This has been the problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK: And people here seem to think that no matter what happens after June 30, Aaron, the United States will at least continue to exert a lot of influence in this country. That's why many here feel that a strong multinational presence, such as United Nations, will be a good thing for Iraq -- Aaron.
BROWN: What is it they think the Americans do not get or what is it about the Americans that they do not like?
WHITBECK: Well, they say that the Americans should have taken more time to study the Iraqi culture, the Iraqi way of dealing in politics, the different tribal factions, the different centers of power that have been in this country, that even, you know, perhaps under Saddam Hussein, they weren't as active, as politically active, as they are now.
But they say that now that there is this chance for a lot of political activity by these different groups, the United States should have thought of that as they made their plans for the occupation and for the Iraq beyond the occupation.
BROWN: Harris, thank you -- Harris Whitbeck, who is in Baghdad today.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, three accounts of one battle as told by the young Marines who fought it and were wounded in it. NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen came upon this almost by chance. This is a stunning story, nice piece of reporting.
A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: One day last month, we marveled, if that's even the right word, at the sound and the pictures of a firefight between Marines and insurgents in the city of Fallujah. Tonight, the story itself as told by the Marines who fought and fell on that day. And if the word marvel applies at all, it applies to them.
From the Army Medical Center in Landstuhl, Germany, here is NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): April 26, Fallujah, among the units deployed here, Echo Company 2nd Battalion 1st Marines. With them, a network pool camera crew and a "Los Angeles Times" photographer documenting the day's mission, to secure two houses near a Marine perimeter to keep close watch for armed insurgents, snipers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't see any targets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't either.
NISSEN (on camera): What were you watching for especially?
CPL. JOSHUA CARPENTER, U.S. MARINES: Pretty much just bad guys with guns.
NISSEN (voice-over): Insurgents had been on the offensive for days. But with U.S. military commanders trying to establish a cease- fire, Marines were under orders to leave themselves to defensive operations. The Marines were frustrated, edgy.
LANCE CPL. BRYON CURNUTT, U.S. MARINES: You never know what to expect. But you know every day you're going to get mortared. Somebody is going to be taking potshots at you or sniper fire.
NISSEN: Marines took incoming fire almost as soon as they occupied the two houses, fire that appeared to be coming from a minaret nearby. Marine units were ordered on to the rooftops.
CARPENTER: We were on the roof and we started getting hit pretty hard with mortars and RPGs and small-arms fire.
CURNUTT: The next thing I know, some of the guys in the building said they were throwing rocks at us. I turned to look and that's when the explosion went off.
NISSEN: The rocks were grenades.
CARPENTER: A grenade landed on top of the roof that I was on. A piece ricocheted I guess off the top of the roof and hit me in the eye.
CURNUTT: I just heard screaming, looked around, had blood squirting out my neck. I put my hand on that. I saw a lot of smoke. I could see RPGs coming out from other buildings. I saw another Marine looking at his arm screaming really loud.
NISSEN: That Marine was Lance Corporal Zach Fincannon.
LANCE CPL. ZACH FINCANNON, U.S. MARINES: I a heard a loud pop. And I looked over to my left and I see that my arm was dangling.
NISSEN: The blast took off his left hand, shredded his forearm.
FINCANNON: It's like a nightmare kind of thing. It was like, man, this can't really happen to me.
NISSEN: The Marines did buddy aid on each other, put pressure bandages, tourniquets on the wounded. Several were hurt. Someone radioed for the Navy combat medics.
CURNUTT: We were under heavy fire. RPGs are slamming into both buildings. Navy Corpsman did an excellent job. They drove right into the fight from our defensive positions and pulled us out of there. We owe our lives to those guys.
NISSEN: Within minutes, the wounded were at a nearby battalion aid station. Within hours, they were medevaced to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, the big Army hospital in Germany.
CURNUTT: When me and my friend were on the medevac out of there, he grabbed me with his good hand and said somebody is praying for us.
FINCANNON: I feel very lucky to be alive. And I'm very glad that a lot of my fellow Marines are alive.
NISSEN: A lot, but not all. One of the Marines sent to the rooftop to replace the wounded was hit with machine gunfire. Lance Corporal Aaron C. Austin, age 21, died in a stairwell.
Hours later, after tanks fired rounds at the minaret, after the firefight ended, Echo Company had time finally to collect itself, to mourn the fallen, to pray for the wounded, pray for Lance Corporal Curnutt.
CURNUTT: I have I think three four pieces of shrapnel in my face, a piece in each of my legs and some scrapes and bruises.
NISSEN: Pray for Corporal Carpenter.
CARPENTER: The worst case is, I won't be able to see. So...
NISSEN (on camera): What have you thought about that?
CARPENTER: I still got my left eye.
NISSEN (voice-over): Pray for Lance Corporal Fincannon.
FINCANNON: My left arm was blown off. They are going to have a prosthetic hand on there. And I got huge shrapnel wounds in my left side. Other than that, I'm fine. NISSEN: Like most of the war wounded, these Marines have no regrets, except that they are unable to go back to their units back to Iraq.
CURNUTT: That's where my brothers are. The rest of my team is still there. That's where the fight is. Until every Marine and soldier is out of there, the fight is not over.
NISSEN: The war goes on one firefight after another.
Beth Nissen, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we go back to the president's speech, the state of play in Iraq, what the press can do about it. David Gergen joins us tonight. So does Noah Feldman, who was present at the creation of Iraq's constitution.
We take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The president's speech tonight was part politics, part policy. And we want to talk both. Noah Feldman helped draft Iraq's constitution. You don't hear much about it these days. David Gergen has advised presidents from Nixon to Clinton. And we're glad to have both of them with us.
David, let me start with you.
As a political matter, did the president accomplish much tonight, do you think?
DAVID GERGEN, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, I don't think he did in one fundamental sense there. And that is that the over-the-air networks decided not to carry the speech because they thought it was not newsworthy.
And that meant that while the president had an audience on cable television that was a good audience, he didn't get anything like the huge audience that the White House wanted in order to have an impact. And beyond that, I thought there were some things that were new about the president's speech. But one of them was the tone, a changed tone.
He was much more respectful toward the Iraqis I think than he's been in the past. That was welcome. And his decision to tear down that damned prison, which -- welcome and coming. But when you get beyond that, I think there were a lot of questions that were left distressingly open.
On one hand, we're going to give full sovereignty, which is good. On the other hand, we're going to retain military control. What happens when somebody has to decide whether to attack in a certain part of Iraq? Will that decision be made by the Iraqi government or by the U.S. military? Who decides if there are sudden jockeying for power, as there will be, among Sunnis vs. the Shiites or among the Shiite groups, who decides when the United States gives money for infrastructure how it will be spent?
Will these decisions be made by the new Iraqi government or by the Americans? I think they are going to be made by the Americans. And that calls into question, of course, for Iraqis, what does full sovereignty really mean? Is it full or is it rather thin?
BROWN: I want to ask Noah about some of them.
Let me ask you, David, one more quick question.
GERGEN: Sure.
BROWN: If the White House had wanted network coverage, broadcast network coverage, all it had to do it pick up the phone and ask for it. It never made the request. Why?
GERGEN: It never made a request, but this is always -- I don't know that the details. But typically -- I've been in these negotiations in the past. Typically, the White House negotiates in a way to see -- to feel it out for the networks, to determine whether they want to come in and play or not.
And you don't like to make a request that is turned down. So I have a sense that they probably felt the networks weren't going to carry it. But, clearly, by announcing there's going to be a major speech and putting it on prime time, the White House wanted as big a television audience as it could get. And the fact that the networks decided that it wasn't newsworthy I think was a real blow for the White House.
BROWN: Let me turn to Noah.
Noah, what ever happened to the constitution you helped draft? You don't hear much about it. And it does make you wonder if right now the single player in Iraq is Sistani and, if he doesn't like the government that is picked, it isn't going to happen.
NOAH FELDMAN, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Well, Sistani is still going have an enormous role.
The constitution is still out there. And for lack of a better explanation, it is likely to be followed for the next six or eight months, until there is a constitutional convention, just because there is nothing else out there. The U.S. put out a draft Security Council resolution today. It didn't say anything about how government was going to happen in Iraq.
And the whole list of questions that Mr. Gergen asked are all questions that the constitution ought to be addressing. So it will probably come back into play now, but it is not being emphasized partly because Ayatollah Sistani doesn't love it.
BROWN: Are they answered, Noah, in that constitution? Are those questions answered now? FELDMAN: Well, to some degree, who is in charge is answered by that constitution. It lays out a kind of blueprint for government in Iraq. The problem is that that constitution assumes a legislature. And in the transitional government that we're about to have now, that the president spoke about tonight, there is no legislature for at least the next six months. There is just a president, a prime minister and some vice presidents, in addition to the ministers.
BROWN: We bit off a lot tonight. We're having trouble chewing on it all.
David, Noah, thanks for joining us. We appreciate you time tonight. Thank you.
GERGEN: Thank you.
BROWN: We'll check morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country, just some fabulous stuff tonight, honestly.
"International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times." "Disarm Iraqi Militias? Maybe Not, U.S. Decides." We talked about this with Senator Chambliss earlier. In a program, the United States may let some of these militias stay in business. It seems like every group, from the rotary on to the Shia, have their own militia. And that's probably not a fabulous thing, when you think about it.
Here is another great story, if it plays out. "The Guardian," a British paper. "U.S. Intelligence Fears Iran Duped Hawks Into Iraq War, Using Ahmad Chalabi to Funnel Intelligence," that the Iranians were pulling strings on this, and says there is a major CIA investigation going on. We'll have guys checking on that tomorrow, I guarantee you.
"The Detroit News" led with the president. "President Offers Plan On Iraq." There was something -- the weather -- maybe that's why it caught my eye. It's in big bold letters on the front page of the paper. "More Storms May Impede Cleanup." The Midwest really got hammered by rain and bad weather. And so weather is always a good lead.
"The Oregonian." We haven't seen "The Oregonian" from Portland, Oregon, in a long time, the Rose City. It's almost time for the Rose Festival, isn't it? Love this story, too. There is more here than meets the eye. "Judge Tosses Mayfield Case. Portland Lawyer Blames Anti-Muslim Bias. The FBI Will Review Its Actions." I'm not a big conspiracy guy, honestly, but this one is funky, isn't it, I mean, when you think about it?
"The Miami Herald" leads with the Bush speech. "Bush: 'Let's Finish the Job." How we doing on time? I'll get two more in, if I can. Thank you. The -- I'm sure there was an answer. I didn't hear it.
This is "The Philadelphia Daily News." We don't get this often either. Forget the president and all that. They're leading with "American Idol." "The Big Sing-Off Tonight." Is that tonight? We got no audience later tomorrow. I guess it is Wednesday, right. The final two battle it out on "American Idol." Don't watch. Watch us instead, OK?
"The Chicago Sun-Times." "Bush Gives Five-Step Plan For Iraq" is the lead. The weather tomorrow in Chicago is "uneven."
That's morning papers. We'll take a break and wrap up the day in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: This thing just zipped by tonight. Good to have you with us. Hope you will join us tomorrow. Among the things on the menu, we'll take a look at the language of our times, terrorists, insurgents. What's the difference? Jeff Greenfield on that. Much more, so join us tomorrow for that.
Soledad O'Brien with a look ahead at "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Aaron.
Tomorrow, on "AMERICAN MORNING," what could be called a modest victory on behalf of modesty. We're going to talk to an 11-year-old girl who says clerks at the retail giant Nordstrom's told her that low-rider jeans are the only look for girls. Well, she didn't think so. So she took on the chain. Well, what does Nordstrom's think now? We'll tell you tomorrow, CNN 7:00 a.m. Eastern -- Aaron, back to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Thank you. I'll have my daughter watch that.
We'll see you all tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time. Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired May 24, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
Much of the program tonight deals with the president's speech a short time ago what he said and what people here and around the world wanted to hear. It comes with the president at a low point in his term if you give polls on such matters such credence.
There are a bunch of polls out there today and they tell similar stories. On Iraq, the country is losing confidence, though not necessarily patience with the war and how it's being run.
In a "Washington Post" poll, two-thirds say the country is now bogged down. Another six in ten say the president lacks a clear plan. Those were the people the president was working tonight in his speech and we'll hear from some of them tonight and others too.
The president tops the program and begins the whip. So, we begin at the Army War College and our Senior White House Correspondent John King, John a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, no new policy proposals from the president tonight but the commander-in-chief did try to confront those doubts you just mentioned, trying to reassure the American people and also one symbolic gesture aimed at the Iraqi people -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. We get to you at the top tonight.
Down the road a bit in Dover, Pennsylvania, Judy Woodruff spent the evening with potential voters, Judy, good to have you, a headline tonight.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, about 30 miles from where the president spoke in this electoral battleground state of Pennsylvania, we gathered six voters with very different ideas about the war. We had them watch the president on TV and we'll tell you whether he changed any minds -- Aaron.
BROWN: Judy, thank you.
Next to Baghdad and what Iraqis expect on the 30th of June and in the days that follow, CNN's Harris Whitbeck cover that for us, a headline from you tonight.
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, Iraqis have heard about the handover plans. They're looking forward to it but they are uncertain about the course their nation might take.
BROWN: Harris, thank you.
And finally what looks like a major snafu, not necessarily the first in the war on terror, the case of Brandon Mayfield, CNN's Kelli Arena with the developments there, Kelli a headline.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Portland lawyer Brandon Mayfield has been cleared of any involvement in the Madrid train bombings. The FBI says it was working off a bum copy of a fingerprint found near the scene of those bombings which led to his two week detention.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you, back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up on this Monday night, the fog of war thickens as home video raises new questions about an attack by U.S. forces. Was an Iraqi wedding party the target?
Also in a war with many firefights, Nissen tonight looks at one, the causes, the losses the story as told by those who lived through it.
And, of course, when the rooster crows you know what that mean, like it or not, your morning papers coming up in a little bit, all that in and more in the hour ahead.
We begin with President Bush and his primetime address to the nation. Every speech has its backdrop three numbers were a big part of tonight. With 38 days to go until the Iraqis are handed power and five months remaining until the presidential election in this country, the death toll for U.S. troops in Iraq now stands at 797.
With his approval ratings as low as they've ever been, the goal for Mr. Bush tonight was to convince the country, perhaps the world, that he has a plan to complete the mission.
We begin tonight with our Senior White House Correspondent John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): At the Army War College, the commander-in- chief confronting mounting doubts about his war plan and his leadership.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must keep our focus. We must do our duty.
KING: The one new promise was aimed at easing the pain of the prisoner abuse scandal.
BUSH: With the approval of the Iraqi government we will demolish the Abu Ghraib Prison as a fitting symbol of Iraq's new beginning.
KING: That new beginning is detailed in a new United Nations resolution the United States and Britain circulated Monday. The draft resolution calls for a sovereign interim government by June 30th and elections to pick a transitional government no later than January, 2005, promises to train new Iraqi military and police forces and, in the meantime, gives U.S. and other coalition troops authority to take all necessary measures to maintain security.
BUSH: I sent American troops to Iraq to defend our security not to stay as an occupying power. I sent American troops to Iraq to make its people free not to make them American.
KING: The nearly 140,000 U.S. troops in Iraq now will stay after the transfer of sovereignty and...
BUSH: If they need more troops I will send them.
KING: The War College atmosphere was much more sober than the president's dramatic carrier visit a year ago to declare major combat in Iraq over. One hundred thirty-nine Americans had been killed in Iraq at that point. The death toll is nearly six times that now and Mr. Bush's political standing has declined as doubts about his Iraq policy have mushroomed.
Forty-seven percent of Americans now approve of how Mr. Bush is handling his job, down 13 points since January and down 22 points from a year ago. This was the first of a series of speeches planned in the five weeks until the transfer of sovereignty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: And missing from that speech any mention at all, no date certain at all for bringing U.S. troops home so in the five weeks until the transfer of sovereignty and then in the five months until the presidential election it's a pretty safe bet, Aaron, that whether this president has a clear exit strategy will remain a key debating point.
BROWN: I want to try and ask two questions. Other than the Abu Ghraib Prison tear down, I did not hear anything new. What are these other four speeches going to be if there's not new in them?
KING: Well, as he gives the additional speeches you will have the names of the new president, the two vice presidents and the prime minister in Iraq. You will have more on how the U.S. forces will interact with the new government, who has the power, if you will, in certain situations.
So, the president tonight hoping, trying to reframe what is -- yes, everything he said tonight was already known but the White House believes the American people have lost track of it because of the violence and because of the prisoner abuse scandal. So, as we go on weekly updates essentially until the transfer of sovereignty.
BROWN: OK. Thing two here when the president tonight talked about the U.N. resolution he talked about it essential as a fete accompli. Everything I've heard today is that there's actually quite a bit of wheeling and dealing going on there. Is it your impression that it's a done deal?
KING: I would never say that given the history of this issue in the Security Council. The White House is confident they will get a resolution but already, and these are the same actors as before, France raising some objections, Germany raising some objections.
Most of all they want a date certain for pulling out U.S. troops. They want it much more clearly defined. If U.S. troops stay in Iraq once there is a sovereign government they, France and Germany and others, want those troops to answer to the sovereign government.
The White House says no. There will be a letter of understanding but no firm authority, so much still to be worked out. The White House says it's a much different environment than before the war but I would not call it a fete accompli until that thing passes the Security Council.
BROWN: John, thank you very much, John King our Senior White House Correspondent.
The White House said tonight's speech would not skimp on specifics. The president we were told would spell out a clear strategy for Iraq to reassure the country that there is an end to the mission.
Our Senior Analyst Jeff Greenfield watched the speech tonight. He watched it from Naples, Florida and he joins us from there tonight. Jeff, because I don't think there was a whole lot new, perhaps what matters here is the moment or the context the speech was given in.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Yes and I think if -- I remember Bill Russell when he was a basketball analyst with a particularly pithy piece of analysis. When things go bad they go bad.
Just imagine the White House. They're getting ready for this major offensive. What happens? Last week the president goes up to Capitol Hill to rally the Republicans. All the press reports are he disappointed them. He didn't even answer questions.
Last night several million Americans turned on "60 Minutes." What did they see? The former Marine Corps Commandant Anthony Zinni saying the whole idea was misconceived. The execution was screwed up and Rumsfeld and all of his civilians were guilty of dereliction of duty and should resign.
Even the setting, Aaron, the Army War College turns out to be the place that in January published a scathing review of the war on terror and the war in Iraq by a former Senate staffer under their aegis, the Army War College.
So, the point that John King is making that the White House wants to make it clear to the public that there's a clear plan to get out is being offered, this first version, in a context that couldn't be more difficult for them to sell their message in -- Aaron.
BROWN: You've been in the political speech writing business and an observer of politics for a long time. Can a speech like this without a dramatic headline survive a news cycle?
GREENFIELD: Maybe it can survive a news cycle, although in this sped up period with cable news and the web maybe not but I think the point you're making is absolutely right. You know there is this notion that political spin doctors and pollsters and media experts and the Carl Roves of this world can somehow create magic.
I think in this particular story war and peace you can't do it. What the president says, even with the bully pulpit, is way, way less important than what we're going to be seeing and, if over the next few months what the president tells us is going to happen, happens, that's when you're going to see a turnaround in public opinion.
I don't think speeches no matter how well crafted can change how people perceive a story like this. Maybe it can change their minds about taxes or the environment or some domestic debate. On life and death and war and peace I'm really skeptical -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeff, thank you, Jeff Greenfield who's in Naples, Florida tonight.
We'll have much more on the president's speech later in the program. We'll hear from a couple of Senators and a number of voters as well. We'll hear from Iraqis too, all that still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, other news of the day to deal with first.
In Iraq, at an outrage over an attack by U.S. troops last week in the western desert more than 40 people were killed, both sides agree on that much at least. The U.S. military says foreign fighters and smugglers or a smuggler way station were the targets, the victims.
Iraqis say it was a wedding party that was attacked and that innocent civilians, including 13 children died. A home video is now adding further confusion to these conflicting accounts.
From the Pentagon here's CNN's Barbara Starr.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The Associated Press says it obtained this video showing vehicles on their way to a wedding party that Iraqis claim U.S. forces attacked last week killing more than 40 people including women and children.
U.S. forces say there was no evidence of a wedding party at the site they attacked, only foreign fighters, but they do not yet know where this video was taken of the celebration and the children being buried.
OSFOOK NAWAF, ATTACK WITNESS (through translator): I swear to God there was a wedding. I swear to God there were no weapons. I swear to God we did not fire one bullet.
STARR: In Baghdad, the coalition spokesman said there was a chain of evidence that the U.S. attacked a safe house for foreign fighters, photographs of documents and passports, some from Sudan, weapons and money seized and apparent drug paraphernalia.
BRIG. GEN. MARK KIMMITT, U.S. ARMY SPOKESMAN: It is pretty clear to us that what happened that night from about after midnight until about 04:00 that the activities that we saw happening on the ground were somewhat inconsistent with a wedding party.
STARR: Military officials want to know why they did not find this tent, these musical instruments, why an organist who is seen playing in the wedding video wound up dead in the back of a truck and whether it is possible there was a wedding at a fighter's safe house. As one official said, bad guys get married too.
Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: If the picture there remains fuzzy it is less so tonight in the case of Brandon Mayfield, considerably less. Last week, you'll recall, Mr. Mayfield was free after two weeks in federal custody as a material witness in the Madrid train bombings, freed but still under suspicion and almost certainly under surveillance.
The FBI late last week was sticking by its claim that a fingerprint on a bag of detonators belonged to Mr. Mayfield despite evidence to the contrary, despite having made the identification not from the original print but from a copy. Today in Portland, Oregon, a federal judge said enough is enough and the FBI late today said it is sorry.
Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In a stunning twist, the case against Oregon lawyer Brandon Mayfield has been thrown out, his name cleared of any involvement in the Madrid train bombings.
BRANDON MAYFIELD, LAWYER: I've been singled out and discriminated against, I feel, as a Muslim.
ARENA: The government says there was no discrimination only what officials thought was a fingerprint match.
KARIN IMMERGUT, U.S. ATTORNEY: The original fingerprint that identified Mr. Mayfield was based on a computer match supported by the analysis of fingerprint experts at the FBI lab in Quantico who had nothing and had never heard of Brandon Mayfield.
ARENA: The problem, according to the FBI, was that examiners were working off what officials say was a substandard copy of the print found at the scene of the bombings not the original. When Spanish authorities last week said the print belonged to an Algerian man, the FBI sent a team to Madrid to have a look at the real McCoy.
BOB JORDAN, FBI: The FBI regrets the hardships that this matter has placed upon Mr. Mayfield and his family.
ARENA: That may not be enough for Mayfield, who was never charged in the case but held for two weeks as a material witness. He's considered legal action.
MAYFIELD: I'm, what, two or three days out of the detention center and I'm just now starting to not shake. My blood pressure's, you know, risen. My pulse has risen. My heart hurts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: The case could prompt changes in how the FBI does fingerprint analysis. The bureau says it is considering adopting new guidelines for examiners who are not dealing with an original print -- Aaron.
BROWN: Just to be clear the FBI will say that it is just a coincidence that Mr. Mayfield is Muslim. It is just a coincidence that he once handled a legal matter, I think it was an immigration matter, for someone who in fact was involved in some sort of anti- government cell out there in Portland, Oregon. Those things are all coincidence to his arrest is that right?
ARENA: They say he was not under investigation until they found that fingerprint match. That's right, Aaron.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you very much, Kelli Arena in Washington tonight.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the president has spoken. What did voters hear? In Pennsylvania, voters will tell us what they thought.
Plus, three Marines relive the firefight that landed them in a military hospital in Germany and may very well have cost them their lives. It certainly cost the lives of their comrades there. We'll take a break first.
From New York on a Monday night this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: (AUDIO GAP) is a global audience that needs if those other countries, if any other country is going to help there has to be some sense that the American government really does know what it's doing right now, is that needle moved?
SEN. JOE BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: Well, maybe. I think what maybe is helpful with the international community, which is a concern on the part of many of our friends is that we're going to leave. The president made it pretty clear we're staying and he made it clear to the Iraqi people, which I thought was useful.
For example, I was asked earlier whether or not laying out a president, vice president, et cetera, was something worth doing. I think it was worth doing for the Iraqi people.
It's putting some meat on the bones that we're really attempting to do this, laying out the electoral process, the January choice of an assembly which will then choose a constitution, will then elect a president. I think that's very useful.
So, but we already knew all that. I guess what I'm responding to is what is new that I didn't know or that those of us who deal with this every day to give us some hope that we're more likely to succeed and the success being having a stable government in Iraq, secured within its borders, not a threat to its neighbors and not possessing terrorists or weapons of mass destruction. That's the goal. I didn't hear anything about how we're more likely to accomplish that goal.
BROWN: And do you feel that's still an open question whether we and they can create that Iraq?
BIDEN: I clearly do. It's even opened wider now. I think it is doable but I didn't hear any of the things that I think need to get it done. For example, I would have liked the president to say, announce tonight after having used his capital to get it done to say we're speeding up the training of Iraqi forces.
The French and the Germans, we're taking them up on their offer. We're going to have more Arab nations with American trained military training them. We're going to open up four new facilities that will get more Iraqis dah, dah, dah, dah, dah.
I would have liked to have seen him say that he said our role of our ambassador is going to be just a normal ambassador. Well who is going to be the referee between the Shia and the Sunni and the, you know, like we had in Afghanistan? Who's going to say go back to the drawing board?
I find myself in an unusual position of saying, look the United Nations is necessary but clearly not sufficient. It's necessary to get major powers involved, get the Security Council permanent five on the same page.
Get people committed to success because, Aaron, the reason I'm confident with presidential leadership they would respond is imagine what happens to the interest of France and Russia and China if, in fact, there's a civil war instead of a civil election a year from now.
BROWN: Not something I want to think about. Senator...
BIDEN: You better start thinking about it because I didn't hear an answer.
BROWN: Senator, it is always a pleasure and a privilege to have you with us. Thank you, Senator.
BIDEN: Thank you very much for having me.
BROWN: Thank you, sir, very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And he is a Senator no matter what I said earlier. Anchors have a lot of power but they can't make people presidents.
Now to the other side of the aisle which harbors a diversity of views on the war, how to fight it, how to end it and how to handle the transition of power.
Senator Saxby Chambliss, a freshman Republican from the State of Georgia, he watched the president from his home in Georgia. We're pleased to have him with us tonight too. Senator, thank you.
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: Good to be with you, Aaron.
BROWN: Did you hear anything that will make the country do you think more comfortable with the route the administration is taking or was it simply a restatement of everything everyone has heard for six months?
CHAMBLISS: Well, Aaron, I don't think the speech was intended to really come forward and lay out the details of any presidential plan or administration plan to provide for the future of the Iraqi people. What the president said all along is that the Iraqi people are going to decide that.
I did think what the president said today was two things. First of all, he established a five point plan. His critics over the last several weeks have been saying the administration has no plan.
Well, tonight he spelled out the plan that we've been operating under and that we're going to move forward with to create an independent Iraq and turn the government of Iraq over to the Iraqi people.
Secondly, I thought what he said was he made it very clear that the U.S. military is going to be there for a while. It's going to be under the control though of American commanders. It's necessary that we have security. Joe is exactly right. We don't accomplish anything without security in that country.
The president's leaving no illusions out there. There's going to be more violence both before June 30 and after June 30 but the American military is going to be there to establish security in that country.
Now there was one phrase that the president used, Aaron, that I thought was particularly significant. He said that over the last several weeks an underlying, really uncovered issue in the situation in Iraq is the dismantling of the militia there.
Well, what that means is we've been killing a bunch of bad guys and that's got to continue. We have simply got to get the security under control and we're doing that.
BROWN: Senator.
CHAMBLISS: And I thought it was...
BROWN: I'm sorry, can I just ask a question on that point because in tomorrow's -- at least in the "International Herald" and I therefore suspect "The New York Times," front page story is going to say that the United States may not be disbanding the militias at all.
The U.S. is still considering whether to disband militias. Is it possible to have a secure Iraq if you've got a bunch of little armies running around beholding to this group or that group?
CHAMBLISS: Well, it isn't possible to have security in Iraq if those insurgents or those militias are attacking American troops. That's what it's critically important that we move ahead to create an Iraqi force, a military of 35,000 people as the president said tonight and we need the Iraqis providing for their own security with our help.
We've been hand-in-hand with them in different communities and cities in Iraq over the last several days and weeks. It's working. It's working very slowly the cooperation of the Iraqi police force and the American troops but we are getting there and I think the president again was very forceful in his statement to that effect tonight. That's got to happen though if we're going to have a peaceful Iraq and an Iraq that can be run by the Iraqi people.
BROWN: Let me ask you one more question on that point then. Are you absolutely, 100 percent confident that the Iraqi -- as long as American troops are in Iraq that Iraqis will stand and fight those people who are attacking their country?
CHAMBLISS: Well they're going to have to. If they're not going to do it with us there, Aaron, then certainly they're not going to do it with us not there. We can't afford to let the insurgents come in from surrounding countries, the really truly terrorists in that part of the world and somehow secure that country themselves, somehow infiltrate the government of that country to where they really run the country.
We can't let that happen. We started this for the right reasons. We're on the right track. It's a very, very difficult and complex track but in order to get there it's going to require the presence of Americans for probably a long time to come. You'll see us downsize I hope immediately but it's still going to require us to be there for a while to come.
BROWN: Senator, we are most pleased to have you with us tonight. I hope you'll join us again soon. Thank you.
CHAMBLISS: Sure.
BROWN: Thank you.
As we said earlier the presidential election is just five months away. It seems to be the backdrop for almost everything these days. As much as President Bush was aiming to appease his critics in Congress with tonight's speech, he was also aiming to reassure voters, so did he? There's no way to know, of course, that answer at least not yet but that did not stop us from taking an unscientific pulse, if you will.
CNN's Judy Woodruff joins us tonight from Dover, Pennsylvania, Judy good evening.
WOODRUFF: Hi there, Aaron.
Well, we were already planning, in fact, to come to your county in the battleground state of Pennsylvania to sit down with a mix of Republicans and Democrats when we heard about the president's speech, so we brought our voters together.
We brought them to the home of Rhea and St. Clair (ph) Simmons to watch the president tonight and we found that they had very strong views, three of them with the president, three of them very much against this war and against the president on the war and we found that for the most part, Aaron, what the president said tonight reinforced those views.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
THERES ALFANO: I think he's saying that it's time and it's about time that we do let them live their own lives and start to rebuild their country the way it should be and I liked what he said about how they are non-Americans and I think that really, you know, hit you when you, you know, you have to think about that. A lot of people are like, OK, we're over there so they need to conform to us. That's not what he's asking.
RHEA SIMMONS: I'm just feeling I'm hearing a lot of double speak when it comes to the war and, again, I can't help but remember that we created this situation. We are the ones who went in there without the U.N.
RAY VAN DE CASTLE: The five point plan is something that I would have been more encouraged by if we had heard it soon after we had attacked them. I think one of the biggest faults of attacking Iraq was we assumed or they assumed that when we attacked the country that these people were going to come out and hug and kiss us and say thank God you're here. You're saving us and now we're getting knifed in the back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WOODRUFF: Now, one of the women in the group who supports President Bush on the war did, in fact, question the fact that there are so many American troops in Iraq and so few troops from other countries.
But bottom line I think you'd have to say, Aaron, is that everybody said no matter what the president says what's really going to matter to them is what happens on the ground and that's what they're watching to see in the days and the weeks and the months to come and they hope it is over soon.
BROWN: Well, they're not alone in that. I'm with them on that. I hope it's over soon too. Judy, thank you. It's good to have you with us tonight, Judy Woodruff who is in Pennsylvania tonight.
Coming up still we'll go to Iraq, Iraq in a perfect world, what do Iraqi citizens think it could be like or should be like when the Americans are no longer there? We'll take a break first.
Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: We've heard from a range of people tonight about Iraq and its future, not one of whom can speak for the 25 million people who have the most at stake when power changes hands on the 30th of June. What Iraqis themselves want and hope for their future is where we turn now.
The story reported by CNN's Harris Whitbeck.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HARRIS WHITBECK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As he has nearly every day for the last decade, 33-year-old Ali Hussein drives a taxi in Baghdad. Navigating the teeming streets affords him a unique view on the Iraq of today.
ALI HUSSEIN, TAXI DRIVER (through translator): I'm the first person to know if anything happens on streets, explosions and so on. We can say that I know just about anything that happens in the capital.
WHITBECK: He also knows that his country is in for a change after June 30. Like many here, Ali is not sure of what that might entail. But he says any change will be good.
A. HUSSEIN (through translator): We must have a tangible change in order for us to look beyond the present and into the future.
WHITBECK: That future is what preoccupies Hassanein Hussein. At 24, he's about to graduate from Baghdad University. And, as he prepares to enter the work force, he's concerned about the form a new government might take.
HASSANEIN HUSSEIN, STUDENT (through translator): We don't want religious leaders to take over the power. They have the right to preserve their religious power, but they should not exercise political power.
WHITBECK: For religious leaders like Sheik Ahmed Abdul Jafor (ph), religious and political powers are entwined. The sheik is eager for the American occupation to end, but he says foreign troops should stay under a different flag.
SHEIK AHMED, RELIGIOUS LEADER (through translator): If the Iraqis saw with their own eyes the Americans pulled out their forces and replaced them with United Nations forces, they would feel secure about picking their representatives for the elections. WHITBECK: The U.N. has begun the long process of establishing an Iraqi government by processing nominations for an electoral commission. That could work, says taxi driver Ali, if there is real balance.
A. HUSSEIN (through translator): For democracy to work, equality must be imposed where all the religions and classes of society are considered equal.
WHITBECK: Hassanein, the college student, isn't too sure. He likes the idea of Iraq becoming a federal republic with all factions equally represented in government, but he is skeptical.
H. HUSSEIN (through translator): Such an idea looks good on paper, but when it comes to reality, it will not work.
WHITBECK: Sheik Ahmed thinks the democracy could work if the U.S. stays out of it.
AHMED (through translator): An elected government is the best solution, but only if the United Nations gets involved. It is a shame that the Americans do not understand the nature of the Iraqi people. This has been the problem.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WHITBECK: And people here seem to think that no matter what happens after June 30, Aaron, the United States will at least continue to exert a lot of influence in this country. That's why many here feel that a strong multinational presence, such as United Nations, will be a good thing for Iraq -- Aaron.
BROWN: What is it they think the Americans do not get or what is it about the Americans that they do not like?
WHITBECK: Well, they say that the Americans should have taken more time to study the Iraqi culture, the Iraqi way of dealing in politics, the different tribal factions, the different centers of power that have been in this country, that even, you know, perhaps under Saddam Hussein, they weren't as active, as politically active, as they are now.
But they say that now that there is this chance for a lot of political activity by these different groups, the United States should have thought of that as they made their plans for the occupation and for the Iraq beyond the occupation.
BROWN: Harris, thank you -- Harris Whitbeck, who is in Baghdad today.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, three accounts of one battle as told by the young Marines who fought it and were wounded in it. NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen came upon this almost by chance. This is a stunning story, nice piece of reporting.
A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: One day last month, we marveled, if that's even the right word, at the sound and the pictures of a firefight between Marines and insurgents in the city of Fallujah. Tonight, the story itself as told by the Marines who fought and fell on that day. And if the word marvel applies at all, it applies to them.
From the Army Medical Center in Landstuhl, Germany, here is NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): April 26, Fallujah, among the units deployed here, Echo Company 2nd Battalion 1st Marines. With them, a network pool camera crew and a "Los Angeles Times" photographer documenting the day's mission, to secure two houses near a Marine perimeter to keep close watch for armed insurgents, snipers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't see any targets.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't either.
NISSEN (on camera): What were you watching for especially?
CPL. JOSHUA CARPENTER, U.S. MARINES: Pretty much just bad guys with guns.
NISSEN (voice-over): Insurgents had been on the offensive for days. But with U.S. military commanders trying to establish a cease- fire, Marines were under orders to leave themselves to defensive operations. The Marines were frustrated, edgy.
LANCE CPL. BRYON CURNUTT, U.S. MARINES: You never know what to expect. But you know every day you're going to get mortared. Somebody is going to be taking potshots at you or sniper fire.
NISSEN: Marines took incoming fire almost as soon as they occupied the two houses, fire that appeared to be coming from a minaret nearby. Marine units were ordered on to the rooftops.
CARPENTER: We were on the roof and we started getting hit pretty hard with mortars and RPGs and small-arms fire.
CURNUTT: The next thing I know, some of the guys in the building said they were throwing rocks at us. I turned to look and that's when the explosion went off.
NISSEN: The rocks were grenades.
CARPENTER: A grenade landed on top of the roof that I was on. A piece ricocheted I guess off the top of the roof and hit me in the eye.
CURNUTT: I just heard screaming, looked around, had blood squirting out my neck. I put my hand on that. I saw a lot of smoke. I could see RPGs coming out from other buildings. I saw another Marine looking at his arm screaming really loud.
NISSEN: That Marine was Lance Corporal Zach Fincannon.
LANCE CPL. ZACH FINCANNON, U.S. MARINES: I a heard a loud pop. And I looked over to my left and I see that my arm was dangling.
NISSEN: The blast took off his left hand, shredded his forearm.
FINCANNON: It's like a nightmare kind of thing. It was like, man, this can't really happen to me.
NISSEN: The Marines did buddy aid on each other, put pressure bandages, tourniquets on the wounded. Several were hurt. Someone radioed for the Navy combat medics.
CURNUTT: We were under heavy fire. RPGs are slamming into both buildings. Navy Corpsman did an excellent job. They drove right into the fight from our defensive positions and pulled us out of there. We owe our lives to those guys.
NISSEN: Within minutes, the wounded were at a nearby battalion aid station. Within hours, they were medevaced to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center, the big Army hospital in Germany.
CURNUTT: When me and my friend were on the medevac out of there, he grabbed me with his good hand and said somebody is praying for us.
FINCANNON: I feel very lucky to be alive. And I'm very glad that a lot of my fellow Marines are alive.
NISSEN: A lot, but not all. One of the Marines sent to the rooftop to replace the wounded was hit with machine gunfire. Lance Corporal Aaron C. Austin, age 21, died in a stairwell.
Hours later, after tanks fired rounds at the minaret, after the firefight ended, Echo Company had time finally to collect itself, to mourn the fallen, to pray for the wounded, pray for Lance Corporal Curnutt.
CURNUTT: I have I think three four pieces of shrapnel in my face, a piece in each of my legs and some scrapes and bruises.
NISSEN: Pray for Corporal Carpenter.
CARPENTER: The worst case is, I won't be able to see. So...
NISSEN (on camera): What have you thought about that?
CARPENTER: I still got my left eye.
NISSEN (voice-over): Pray for Lance Corporal Fincannon.
FINCANNON: My left arm was blown off. They are going to have a prosthetic hand on there. And I got huge shrapnel wounds in my left side. Other than that, I'm fine. NISSEN: Like most of the war wounded, these Marines have no regrets, except that they are unable to go back to their units back to Iraq.
CURNUTT: That's where my brothers are. The rest of my team is still there. That's where the fight is. Until every Marine and soldier is out of there, the fight is not over.
NISSEN: The war goes on one firefight after another.
Beth Nissen, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we go back to the president's speech, the state of play in Iraq, what the press can do about it. David Gergen joins us tonight. So does Noah Feldman, who was present at the creation of Iraq's constitution.
We take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The president's speech tonight was part politics, part policy. And we want to talk both. Noah Feldman helped draft Iraq's constitution. You don't hear much about it these days. David Gergen has advised presidents from Nixon to Clinton. And we're glad to have both of them with us.
David, let me start with you.
As a political matter, did the president accomplish much tonight, do you think?
DAVID GERGEN, HARVARD UNIVERSITY: Well, I don't think he did in one fundamental sense there. And that is that the over-the-air networks decided not to carry the speech because they thought it was not newsworthy.
And that meant that while the president had an audience on cable television that was a good audience, he didn't get anything like the huge audience that the White House wanted in order to have an impact. And beyond that, I thought there were some things that were new about the president's speech. But one of them was the tone, a changed tone.
He was much more respectful toward the Iraqis I think than he's been in the past. That was welcome. And his decision to tear down that damned prison, which -- welcome and coming. But when you get beyond that, I think there were a lot of questions that were left distressingly open.
On one hand, we're going to give full sovereignty, which is good. On the other hand, we're going to retain military control. What happens when somebody has to decide whether to attack in a certain part of Iraq? Will that decision be made by the Iraqi government or by the U.S. military? Who decides if there are sudden jockeying for power, as there will be, among Sunnis vs. the Shiites or among the Shiite groups, who decides when the United States gives money for infrastructure how it will be spent?
Will these decisions be made by the new Iraqi government or by the Americans? I think they are going to be made by the Americans. And that calls into question, of course, for Iraqis, what does full sovereignty really mean? Is it full or is it rather thin?
BROWN: I want to ask Noah about some of them.
Let me ask you, David, one more quick question.
GERGEN: Sure.
BROWN: If the White House had wanted network coverage, broadcast network coverage, all it had to do it pick up the phone and ask for it. It never made the request. Why?
GERGEN: It never made a request, but this is always -- I don't know that the details. But typically -- I've been in these negotiations in the past. Typically, the White House negotiates in a way to see -- to feel it out for the networks, to determine whether they want to come in and play or not.
And you don't like to make a request that is turned down. So I have a sense that they probably felt the networks weren't going to carry it. But, clearly, by announcing there's going to be a major speech and putting it on prime time, the White House wanted as big a television audience as it could get. And the fact that the networks decided that it wasn't newsworthy I think was a real blow for the White House.
BROWN: Let me turn to Noah.
Noah, what ever happened to the constitution you helped draft? You don't hear much about it. And it does make you wonder if right now the single player in Iraq is Sistani and, if he doesn't like the government that is picked, it isn't going to happen.
NOAH FELDMAN, PROFESSOR, NEW YORK UNIVERSITY: Well, Sistani is still going have an enormous role.
The constitution is still out there. And for lack of a better explanation, it is likely to be followed for the next six or eight months, until there is a constitutional convention, just because there is nothing else out there. The U.S. put out a draft Security Council resolution today. It didn't say anything about how government was going to happen in Iraq.
And the whole list of questions that Mr. Gergen asked are all questions that the constitution ought to be addressing. So it will probably come back into play now, but it is not being emphasized partly because Ayatollah Sistani doesn't love it.
BROWN: Are they answered, Noah, in that constitution? Are those questions answered now? FELDMAN: Well, to some degree, who is in charge is answered by that constitution. It lays out a kind of blueprint for government in Iraq. The problem is that that constitution assumes a legislature. And in the transitional government that we're about to have now, that the president spoke about tonight, there is no legislature for at least the next six months. There is just a president, a prime minister and some vice presidents, in addition to the ministers.
BROWN: We bit off a lot tonight. We're having trouble chewing on it all.
David, Noah, thanks for joining us. We appreciate you time tonight. Thank you.
GERGEN: Thank you.
BROWN: We'll check morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country, just some fabulous stuff tonight, honestly.
"International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times." "Disarm Iraqi Militias? Maybe Not, U.S. Decides." We talked about this with Senator Chambliss earlier. In a program, the United States may let some of these militias stay in business. It seems like every group, from the rotary on to the Shia, have their own militia. And that's probably not a fabulous thing, when you think about it.
Here is another great story, if it plays out. "The Guardian," a British paper. "U.S. Intelligence Fears Iran Duped Hawks Into Iraq War, Using Ahmad Chalabi to Funnel Intelligence," that the Iranians were pulling strings on this, and says there is a major CIA investigation going on. We'll have guys checking on that tomorrow, I guarantee you.
"The Detroit News" led with the president. "President Offers Plan On Iraq." There was something -- the weather -- maybe that's why it caught my eye. It's in big bold letters on the front page of the paper. "More Storms May Impede Cleanup." The Midwest really got hammered by rain and bad weather. And so weather is always a good lead.
"The Oregonian." We haven't seen "The Oregonian" from Portland, Oregon, in a long time, the Rose City. It's almost time for the Rose Festival, isn't it? Love this story, too. There is more here than meets the eye. "Judge Tosses Mayfield Case. Portland Lawyer Blames Anti-Muslim Bias. The FBI Will Review Its Actions." I'm not a big conspiracy guy, honestly, but this one is funky, isn't it, I mean, when you think about it?
"The Miami Herald" leads with the Bush speech. "Bush: 'Let's Finish the Job." How we doing on time? I'll get two more in, if I can. Thank you. The -- I'm sure there was an answer. I didn't hear it.
This is "The Philadelphia Daily News." We don't get this often either. Forget the president and all that. They're leading with "American Idol." "The Big Sing-Off Tonight." Is that tonight? We got no audience later tomorrow. I guess it is Wednesday, right. The final two battle it out on "American Idol." Don't watch. Watch us instead, OK?
"The Chicago Sun-Times." "Bush Gives Five-Step Plan For Iraq" is the lead. The weather tomorrow in Chicago is "uneven."
That's morning papers. We'll take a break and wrap up the day in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: This thing just zipped by tonight. Good to have you with us. Hope you will join us tomorrow. Among the things on the menu, we'll take a look at the language of our times, terrorists, insurgents. What's the difference? Jeff Greenfield on that. Much more, so join us tomorrow for that.
Soledad O'Brien with a look ahead at "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Aaron.
Tomorrow, on "AMERICAN MORNING," what could be called a modest victory on behalf of modesty. We're going to talk to an 11-year-old girl who says clerks at the retail giant Nordstrom's told her that low-rider jeans are the only look for girls. Well, she didn't think so. So she took on the chain. Well, what does Nordstrom's think now? We'll tell you tomorrow, CNN 7:00 a.m. Eastern -- Aaron, back to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Thank you. I'll have my daughter watch that.
We'll see you all tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time. Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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