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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
U.N. Approves Resolution to Hand Over Power to Iraq; Putin Praises U.S. Diplomacy on Iraq; Did Justice Department Approve Torture?
Aired June 08, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.
We woke up this morning to yet another reminder of how abnormal the new normal can be. We read news accounts of Justice Department memos outlining when torture is acceptable and how the laws against it could be circumvented. The memos, as we'll report a bit later carefully, legal in their language, are stunning in their implications.
Depending on your point of view they were either necessary in the world we find ourselves in or an example of the sort of dangers the new normal thinking can foster but this is the world we find ourselves in, a world where a country of extraordinary ideals is debating how much torture is too much.
The whip begins it all the whip begins with Iraq but in New York at the U.N. and the resolution, CNN's Richard Roth starts us off with a headline -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, this time the United States got what it wanted in the Security Council on Iraq but will unity bring real change there -- Aaron.
BROWN: Richard, thank you.
Next to the leaders of the countries that made it possible, though by no means easy, our Senior White House Correspondent John King with the president in Savannah, Georgia at the summit, John the headline from there.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Russia's president today praised U.S. diplomacy on Iraq and the White House rushed to call Germany's chancellor a friend, what a difference that vote made and quickly -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
Next to Washington and what reads, as we said, like an official justification for torture, if only the makings of it. Kelli Arena worked on this today, so Kelli the headline.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the attorney general faced a grilling from Senators who wanted to know if the Justice Department gave a green light for torture. The debate was heated and it got personal.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you.
And finally to Simi Valley and the pilgrimage still underway at the Reagan Library, Frank Buckley there again tonight, Frank a headline.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, officials here at the Reagan Library say they expected huge crowds but not like this. Tens of thousands of people have passed by President Reagan's casket, most of them enduring traffic, long lines and hours of waiting just to get here.
BROWN: Frank, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest coming up in a moment.
Also coming up tonight in the hour ahead Alzheimer's disease steals thousands of people away from their loved ones every year just as it stole away Ronald Reagan. Is there any progress towards a cure? We'll take a look tonight.
And the new Medicare discount cards are they a real help to seniors or just another frustrating and confusing government program?
And one person who never confuses us, well not a person but an animal, the rooster who arrives with your morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin over at the United Nations where the Security Council today unanimously approved a resolution to hand over power in Iraq on the 30th of June. The vote came 14 months after Saddam Hussein's fall from power, just 22 days before Iraq's new interim government takes control. There were many revisions and much negotiation along the way but, in the end, the president got what he wanted and needed international support in Iraq.
Here again, CNN's Richard Roth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH (voice-over): The U.S. and France together again on Iraq. They had company at the United Nations. By a 15-0 vote, the Security Council endorsed the transfer of political authority to Iraq.
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: With today's vote we acknowledge an important milestone. By June 30th, Iraq will reassert its sovereignty.
ROTH: Diplomats call it a catalyst for change in Iraq.
HOSHYAR ZEBARI, IRAQI FOREIGN MINISTER: The significance of this resolution for us, for the Iraqis, is really to take away the concept of occupation.
ROTH: The resolution also opens the door for more international help in Iraq, especially economic aid. ZEBARI: We view this resolution as the most significant step since the first Gulf War towards the full normalization of the situation in Iraq.
ROTH: But don't look for a rush by other nations to send troops. In fact, France tried to lead the diplomatic charge to change the resolution in order to guarantee the Iraqis the right to veto actions by the American troops that will stay on after June 30th. After Iraq failed to back that request, France compromised but with a parting shot.
JEAN MARC DE LA SABLIERE, FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO U.N. (through translator): France cannot, moreover, imagine that the multinational force would go against the opinion of Iraq's sovereign government.
ROTH: Instead, under the resolution the U.S. and Iraq will coordinate on sensitive offensive operations. There is a potential exit time for the troops, January, 2006 or earlier if Iraq decides but Iraqi leaders say that's not imminent. And now the United Nations can return to Iraq to help with elections and the writing of a constitution, all depending on security.
Several diplomats said passage of the resolution puts a greater burden on Iraq to live up to the spirit of the resolution and on other countries to provide assistance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: China's ambassador, among others, said it's a big day for the U.N. and Iraq, however, an Iraqi official here said talk is cheap. Despite all the back slapping and praise they want to see some commitment to restore and recover in Iraq -- Aaron.
BROWN: Richard, does this mean that there will be more foreign troops, more non-American troops in Iraq?
ROTH: It does but it's not likely to happen anytime soon. There will be some forces from other countries to protect the U.N. when it goes back in. That's part of this resolution.
BROWN: Richard, thank you very much, Richard Roth at the U.N. tonight.
The vote at the U.N. came on the day one of the G8 Summit of the coast of Georgia. President Bush is hosting seven world leaders, including the heads of France, Germany and Russia. All three opposed the war in Iraq vigorously, which made today's vote at the U.N. and the international support it delivered especially sweet for President Bush.
That part of the story from our Senior White House Correspondent John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Russia's Vladimir Putin was one of three Iraq War critics on the president's afternoon schedule and from the White House perspective word of the unanimous vote at the United Nations was a perfect kickoff to the Sea Island Summit.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The vote today in the United Nations Security Council was a great victory for the Iraqi people. The international community showed that they'll stand side by side with the Iraqi people.
KING: Relieved too is embattled British Prime Minister Tony Blair who called it a powerful message to terrorists and insurgents in Iraq.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: They now know that it isn't just the United States and the U.K. or indeed the multinational force. It's the whole of the United Nations and the world community.
KING: Partnership is the president's summit theme and Germany's chancellor was on script not a mention of his fierce opposition to war, hearty praise for the new spirit of cooperation.
GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): We think that this resolution will be a good basis, a good foundation for enhancing stability.
KING: The group of eight was split down the middle on the war. The United States, Great Britain, Italy and Japan in favor; France, Germany, Canada and Russia vehemently opposed. Mr. Bush wants unity now and signed off on a number of concessions to win U.N. blessing on the summit's opening day.
BUSH: I think this is a very important moment on the -- on making sure that our objective is achieved.
KING: The Security Council vote is unlikely to bring new international troops or even major new financial commitments for Iraq's reconstruction but the White House was eager to celebrate a victory after weeks, if not months, of Iraq setbacks.
The leaders are meeting at Sea Island, a resort community now surrounded by extraordinary security. Miles away, demonstrators made clear their views, another reminder of how the Iraq War has damaged Mr. Bush's image on the world stage and here at home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now the president hoping this summit brings new cooperation, a new chapter even in international cooperation not only on Iraq but other issues as well and, Aaron, the president also hopes very much that the next few days provide a number of words and images that help him rebut Democrat John Kerry's assertion that this president, President Bush, has simply failed the test of building and managing alliances -- Aaron.
BROWN: When does the president head back to Washington for the Reagan events that will go on at the end of the week? KING: He will come back late Thursday night and he will deliver a eulogy Friday at the national cathedral for the funeral services. Vice President Cheney will represent the president and the administration Wednesday night when President Reagan's body is brought up to the United States Capitol.
The White House says it consulted with the Reagan family and that Nancy Reagan completely supported that decision for the president to stay here and continue his work at the summit.
BROWN: John, thank you.
KING: Thank you.
BROWN: John King our White House Correspondent.
For Iraqis, security means little -- rather sovereignty means little without security and today in Iraq, again, there was precious little security. In Baquba north of Baghdad a car bomb went off outside an American base. One soldier and at least four locals died in the explosion.
Farther north in Mosul, at least nine civilians were killed in a similar explosion. Witnesses say the bomb was placed in a taxicab with three men onboard. The blast apparently targeted a number of local officials, including the mayor. They all escaped without serious injuries.
On the bright side of things, American and Polish Special Forces freed four hostages, three Italians and a Pole. The Italians had been held since April. That said, about 20 hostages remain in captivity in the hands of a number of shadowy groups. All of that on the ground in Iraq.
Back in Washington, the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal has taken another turn. Again, a document has surfaced this time legal memos written last year by administration lawyers. In these memos, the lawyers appear to make a case for torture by explaining why international and U.S. law on torture would not apply to the president.
The document is not sitting well with the Senate Judiciary Committee. Today some very angry members demanded answers from that Attorney General John Ashcroft. It was Mr. Ashcroft's first meeting with the committee in more than a year and it is fair to say it got quite tense.
Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): Senators demanded to know if the Justice Department told the president it was legally OK to torture al Qaeda terrorists and whether the president, based on that advice, issued an order on interrogations that led to the abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison. SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We know when we have these kinds of orders what happens. We get the stress test. We get the use of dogs. We get the forced nakedness that we've all seen.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: First of all, let me completely reject the notion that anything that this president has done or the Justice Department has done has directly resulted in the kinds of atrocities which were cited. That is false.
ARENA: Justice Department lawyers did contribute to a March, 2003 report obtained by CNN which suggests interrogators have broad latitude to use pressure when questioning detainees.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Did your department issue a memorandum in which it suggested torture is allowed under certain circumstances as the press has reported?
ASHCROFT: The president has not directed or ordered any conduct that would violate the Constitution of the United States.
ARENA: But Ashcroft refused repeated Democratic demands to turn over memos or to tell Senators what legal advice he gave the president and the sparring got personal.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: See and there's a reason why we sign these treaties to protect my son in the military. That's why we have these treaties so when Americans are captured they are not tortured. That's the reason in case anybody forgets it. That's the reason. I yield the floor.
ASHCROFT: Well, as a person whose son is in the military now on active duty and has been in the Gulf within the last several months, I am aware of those considerations and I care about your son.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Some Senators even threatened the attorney general with contempt of Congress for not relating what he told the president. Without citing executive privilege, they say he has an obligation to answer all of their questions -- Aaron.
BROWN: Where does this go?
ARENA: Well, if the members of the committee are to be believed they may go ahead and subpoena those memos and let the White House either declare executive privilege or turn them over. The committee does have oversight over the Justice Department and says that it is conducting its own investigation to find out if the president did indeed give the go ahead.
BROWN: And was it absolutely partisan today? Were there Republicans who seemed as concerned?
ARENA: It sure seemed that way, Aaron. It sure seemed that way. The most heated debate came when the Democrats were questioning the attorney general. But I have to say, you know, the attorney general did -- you said before where is it going?
One of the other facets to this conversation today was that Ashcroft repeatedly said that investigations at the Justice Department were underway and that if there were -- if there was any proof of wrongdoing, crimes being committed that he set up a special team in Virginia to prosecute those cases, so you are going to see a track, a political track and a legal track.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you, Kelli Arena in Washington tonight.
Lawyers are paid to advise their clients to lay out legal arguments, all of them, and so is this memo simply a matter of lawyers doing their work? Does it in any way tie the White House to the torture in Iraq?
Scott Silliman is a professor of law at Duke University where he also directs the Center on Law Ethics and National Security. He is a retired U.S. Air Force colonel as well who provided legal support to Air Force commanders in the Persian Gulf War and he joins us from Durham, North Carolina. That's a long introduction, Scott.
SCOTT SILLIMAN, DUKE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Good evening again, Aaron.
BROWN: Good to see you sir. When you read this stuff today what was your first reaction?
SILLIMAN: Well, Aaron a sad reaction because I think we'll find that this is one of a series of memos that cover a span of almost 18 months where government agencies prominently the Justice Department have sought to put a legal regime together that will thwart any kind of prosecution against any government agency that conducts interrogation techniques that are in violation of the law.
BROWN: One of the problems I think so far is that we're looking at this in a vacuum and we need to fill in some of the vacuum. It's clear that we know this, the record shows this, that the secretary of defense was frustrated by the lack of good information coming out of the interrogations.
SILLIMAN: That's correct, Aaron, and we do know that these techniques and much of the matter in these memos was originally meant to apply to Guantanamo Bay. The earliest memo, the one by John Yoo in January of 2002, running all the way through last year, the military working group, military civilian attorneys in the Pentagon, all this had to do with Guantanamo Bay.
The problem then is those memos, that legal regime that was created to skirt the Geneva Conventions and the War Crimes Act, our own law in this country, were possibly exported over to Iraq and therefore that could have been one of the reasons we all saw those horrendous photos out of Abu Ghraib.
BROWN: Well, maybe the money question here is one of the arguments that is contained in the memos is a necessity defense, essentially that if you need to torture to prevent a greater harm then that's OK basically. That's a pretty simplified version of a complicated legal argument but that's what it is. What's wrong with that?
SILLIMAN: Well, what's wrong with it, Aaron, is there's no legal foundation for it and you won't find that in the law. The argument put forward in that memo and other memos like it that have already surfaced and others that will come is, one, that you would find the vast majority of lawyers will not agree with, even the most conservative lawyers.
I think what needs to be mentioned, Aaron, is the military lawyers, the JAGs in the Pentagon and in the field, the ones that participated last year in the working group were vehemently opposed to this theory and yet their voices were trumped by the civilian attorneys in the Pentagon.
BROWN: And just briefly why was their opposition so strong?
SILLIMAN: Aaron, they believe, and I think rightfully so, that when you start down this path of looking for ways to skirt international law, just as Biden said today in the Senate, you put your own servicemen at risk.
You set a precedent that other countries will do the same to our servicemen. For 50 years, we have been preaching to our servicemen compliance with the rule of law. This new legal regime changes that culture and dangerously so.
BROWN: Scott, it's good to see you. Next time I promise we'll introduce you in less than 30 seconds and add that to the conversation. It's nice to see you.
SILLIMAN: Thanks, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you.
SILLIMAN: Good night.
BROWN: Ahead on the program tonight, at this hour in Simi Valley, California people are still passing by to bid farewell to Ronald Reagan. We'll go out to the presidential library when we come back and we'll look at how the president's illness cast a new light on a horrible disease Alzheimer's. We'll take a break first.
From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California tonight, this scene, the scene that you are looking at has been going on now for a day and a half I guess constantly, thousands upon thousands of people have passed by quietly just walking by, stopping for a moment. Some salute. Some move on just to be there to be a part of this moment.
Tomorrow morning the casket bearing the president's body will be flown finally to Washington where the official national remembrances will begin. Until then, as we just showed you, the people from near and far just keep on coming.
Here again, CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY (voice-over): The outpouring for President Reagan three days after his death so great that lines to catch shuttle busses just to get to the library stretched for hours, traffic snarled and library officials extended viewing hours just to meet the demand.
GARY FOSTER, REAGAN FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Well, we were prepared for there to be a fairly great outpouring of affection for the president because, after all, this is, you know, the heart of Reagan country but we had no idea it was going to be like this to tell you the truth.
BUCKLEY: Some waited four hours in line to catch a shuttle bus but few, if any, complained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel really honored, honored to be here even four and a half hours later half asleep.
BUCKLEY: At the president's casket some salute, others shed tears. There are families and individuals, boy scouts and senior citizens. They spend about two minutes in the presence of the late president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My feet hurt. My back hurts. I'll be 62 this month and there are older people here but it was worth it.
BUCKLEY: Among those paying respects this day, Senator John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president. Kerry in Los Angeles to attend his daughter's graduation from film school canceled overt campaigning for the week in observance of President Reagan's death.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And the people continue to come here tonight, we're told at a rate of 2,000 to 3,000 people per hour, some of them true believers, Aaron, others here to be a witness to a moment in history.
The hours of viewing were extended from 6:00 p.m. local time to 10:00 p.m. local time to accommodate as many people as possible. Library officials say they expect 100,000 people in all to see the casket by the time the viewing period ends.
And today, word from Nancy Reagan that she was moved by what she has seen. She released a statement through the president's office saying: "It is unbelievable what I am seeing on TV" -- Aaron.
BROWN: Will there be people who are in line that do not get into the library tonight?
BUCKLEY: I don't think so because what they have done throughout the day is they've adjusted the time by which you have to go catch the shuttle bus. First it was supposed to be three o'clock local time. They said if you didn't get there by 3:00 you wouldn't catch it.
Then they said 6:00. Now it's 7:30, so they've tried to make sure that everyone who makes the effort to get here and gets on a shuttle bus will, in fact, see the president's casket.
BROWN: Frank, thank you for your work this week, Frank Buckley out in Simi Valley, California.
Ten years ago, President Reagan put a public face on a disease that millions of people suffer from quite privately. Roughly four million Americans have Alzheimer's, a disease whose cause and cure remain stubborn mysteries.
Millions more will develop it as the American population ages. President Reagan could have kept his diagnosis private but instead he told the world, a decision that raised awareness and some say much more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Since he told the world a decade ago that he had Alzheimer's, scientists say there has been steady progress into detecting both the causes and identifying possible cures for the disease.
STEPHEN MCCONNELL, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, ALZHEIMER'S ASSOCIATION: In 1994, we had just approved the very first drug treatment for Alzheimer's disease. There are now five that have been approved by the FDA. Funding by the federal government at that time was about $298 million a year. It's now almost $700 million a year. I think much of that can be attributed to President Reagan's statement, his willingness to come forward and really the appreciation that the world has for his contributions.
BROWN: Alzheimer's is a steady progressive brain disorder usually affecting those over 65. It steals their memories, their speech, their perception of the world around them. Doctors who see Alzheimer's patients and their families say there was widespread awareness that it had afflicted someone as famous as Ronald Reagan.
DR. PAUL AISEN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: The term Alzheimer's disease carries a stigma. It can be upsetting. To have President Reagan publicly announce that he had received this diagnosis ten years ago I think was tremendously helpful for patients and their families allowing them to much more comfortably deal with the symptoms and with the diagnosis allowing more people to seek treatment.
BROWN: At Georgetown and other research centers around the country, scientists believe one of the keys to finding an Alzheimer's cure may lie in the use of stem cells but just before 9/11 the president placed strict guidelines on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.
AISEN: As a scientist I want to pursue every promising avenue that may lead to treatment for these debilitating diseases, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and others, so I am all in favor of not closing down any avenues.
BROWN: Nancy Reagan, of course, issued public calls for more research on stem cells and now some politicians believe that her husband's death may open the door to a White House change of heart.
REP. MIKE CASTLE (R) DELAWARE: I think there is a chance this administration may alter its stance on stem cell research but I also thought there was a chance before the death of President Reagan and the outpouring of great affection for him and, of course, the statements made by Nancy Reagan.
REP. DIANE DEGETTE (D), COLORADO: If it comes down to politics for the White House then what they'll look at is the polling that shows that a solid majority of Americans, including those from the religious right, support stem cell research.
BROWN: Finding a cure for Alzheimer's may be years and years away with or without stem cell research. Researchers say that money and political will are keys and that Ronald Reagan's decade long battle with the disease may eventually result in helping untold others.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: One other quick item on this. Bill Frist, the Senate Majority Leader, introduced an amendment to the defense bill today to rename the Pentagon in honor of Mr. Reagan.
And, on the programming note side of things, CNN of course will bring you the memorial services as they happen tomorrow and throughout the week, 4:30 tomorrow afternoon it begins from Washington.
Jeff Greenfield and more after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The authors of a new book on the conservative movement in America describe Ronald Reagan this way. "He was a sectarian," they write, "with an ecumenical spirit, a true believer without the usual flaws of a true believer."
In navigating the ship of politics, politicians trim their sails from time to time. At least the good ones do.
Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: He was, of course, the symbol of American conservatism. And he proclaimed one of its central creeds at the moment he took power. REAGAN: It is my intention to curb the size and influence of the federal establishment, to get government back within its means, and to lighten our punitive tax burden.
GREENFIELD: But did he do this? He cut taxes in 1981 by 25 percent, but the next year turned around and raised them. By one measure, it was the largest tax hike in history. And not only did he not abolish the Departments of Education and Energy, as he had proposed...
REAGAN: This bill gives those who have borne America's battles...
GREENFIELD: He turned Veterans Affairs into a new Cabinet-level department. And while he had this to say about deficits...
REAGAN: We have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and children's future for the temporary convenience of the present.
GREENFIELD: The deficit actually doubled on his watch.
(on camera): In fact, there is enough in Reagan's tenure that cuts against the conservative grain that some voices from the liberal corner have begun in recent years to claim Reagan as one of their own, sort of.
(voice-over): Last year, for example, "The Washington Monthly" magazine cited several examples of what it called Reagan's liberalism. His Social Security reform imposed taxes on benefits that went to the affluent elderly. The earned income tax credit gave subsidies to the working poor. And under Reagan, people below the poverty line paid no federal income tax at all.
Moreover, a major tax reform package in 1986 shaped in good part by Democrats Dick Gephardt...
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), MISSOURI: What it is this deduction is about...
GREENFIELD: And Bill Bradley.
SEN. BILL BRADLEY (D), NEW JERSEY: The bill is a powerful force.
GREENFIELD: ... slammed shut a raft of corporate loopholes, even as it lowered marginal tax rates.
In foreign policy, Reagan's massive defense buildup was designed to prove to Moscow that it could not win an arms race so that it might choose the path of disarmament. While protesters demanded that Reagan back a freeze on nuclear weapons, he claimed his real goal was to get rid of them entirely, something he and Mikhail Gorbachev strongly considered doing at the Reykjavik summit in 1986, much to the dismay of his staff.
Reagan's conservative admirers note that Democrats controlled half or all the Congress during Reagan's years, so compromise was necessary. They also say that the shift in the political terrain was clearly toward the right, so much so that Bill Clinton won in 1992 only after he threw many liberal orthodoxies over the side.
(on camera): Well, maybe it is not a surprising that liberals want to claim a piece of the Reagan legacy. Reagan himself quoted himself Franklin D. Roosevelt during his 1980 acceptance speech. And he often cited John Kennedy's tax-cutting ideas in support of his own.
What this shows is just how long of a shadow Reagan cast across the breadth of the American political landscape.
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: David Brooks has been called the liberal's favorite conservative columnist. He casts a long shot of himself across the op-ed page of "The New York Times." Mr. Brooks is a recent author of "On Paradise Drive: How We Live Now (And Always Have) in the Future Tense."
And we're very pleased to see him.
Waited a while. Nice to have you here.
There's actually an interesting parallel I think in the news of this moment, of the president's passing and one of the themes of the book, which is that Americans are an inherently optimistic group. Somehow, it will work out.
DAVID BROOKS, AUTHOR, "ON PARADISE DRIVE": Yes.
When you look, and you can go back to the Westward expansion. One of the things people noticed about those pioneers who moved West was, first of all, they had no clue what they were getting into. They just figured something better was there. And then they'd move West and they would go past perfectly good farmland, figuring that over the next ridge there was something even better. And that's that future- minded mentality that Reagan had in spades.
BROWN: Is there -- this desire we have for something better all the time, bigger and better all the time, is it a sign that at some level we are dissatisfied with what we have?
BROOKS: It's hope. And we think being hopeful is a good thing, but hope is a trickster. Hope tantalizes you into thinking you should always move on, you should always get better. And it accounts for the fact that we do tend to work hard and rise.
It also accounts for the fact that we divorce more often. When we move to suburbs, sometimes, we are not happy there, because we figure if we move to some new place, new must be better than old. Sometimes we venture out in the world in ways that seems reckless in retrospect.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: I think, if you asked people, though -- I think all of that is true, but if you asked people, they'd say at some level what they want is Mayberry, sort of Main Street USA of the '50s.
BROOKS: Yes. I think what we want is paradise.
I think this started when people first landed on these shores, the Europeans. They thought, well, God's plan can be realized here. And at the same time we can get rich while doing it. And so they wanted some perfect, ultimate happiness. You go to the magazine rack, you look at all these magazines, it is just perfect heaven, "Architectural Digest," perfect homes, "Oprah" magazine, perfect life. It's just perfection all around.
BROWN: Let's talk about one area of imperfection these days, Iraq. You've not been altogether optimistic over the last few months or so. One of the most interesting things you have had to say is that we might have to accept a fair amount of anti-Americanism from the Iraqis if we're going to get to success.
BROOKS: Right.
BROOKS: I supported this war. And I still support it. I still think in the long run it can work out.
But I wrote a column making this case that, in order to win we have to lose. And what we have to lose is an election. We have to give Iraqis an electoral chance to voice their opposition to us, at our incompetence, and the fact that we tried to dominate their country. And it is their country. And we had no right to do that. And so we tried to dominate that. And we have to give them an early election where they can campaign against us.
And they can have speeches and ballots and votes against the U.S., which will be a lot better than bombs and RPGs and missiles.
BROWN: Are you -- does it distress you that the arguments that the president used to get into the war turned out to be at least as we sit here today inaccurate?
BROOKS: I'm appalled by the intelligence failure. But, for me, it was never about that. And I think for me and my colleague Tom Friedman...
BROWN: Why didn't they make -- if it was about human rights, and I think that was the great argument -- they didn't argue it, but it was the argument -- why didn't they make it?
BROOKS: Well, I think they did in many respects.
I sat at several speeches where the president made that argument. They didn't make it at the U.N. because they had to get a U.N. resolution. And the U.N. was all about WMD. I think we just could not have allowed the Middle East to go down the trajectory it was going down. We could not have allowed Saddam to pass that region down to Uday and Qusay. And so I still think fundamentally it was the right thing to do. It's too bad we've made it so hard.
BROWN: Good to have you with us. I hope you'll come back.
BROOKS: Oh, it's a pleasure.
BROWN: Thank you very much, David Brooks with "The New York Times."
Still to come on the program tonight, are the new Medicare prescription cards more trouble than they're worth? And, for that matter, how much are they really worth anyway?
Over 80,000 people stood in line in just the past day or so, in the past hours. Why are they doing that? We'll get in line with them tonight.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Democratic Conventions don't always go smoothly. In 1972, one thing after another kept George McGovern from giving his acceptance speech until most of the country had gone to bed. Violence surrounded the '68 convention in Chicago, of course. And while nobody expects a repeat in Boston later this year, there's trouble just the same.
It seems the party of organized labor is having problems with organized labor, in this case, the union representing Boston Police.
So from Boston tonight, here's CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want these contracts brought to term. And we'd like them brought to term now, long before the convention.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): On the day when work was to begin transforming the home of the Boston Celtics into a convention hall, the Patrolmen's Association is joined by other unions, locking trucks, handing out leaflets and strongly encouraging workers going in to go home.
PROTESTERS: Shame on you!
LOTHIAN: Many workers did leave. As city employees, these union members can't strike. And while they threaten convention construction, their picketing will be kept out of sight just like other protesters once delegates start arriving. So they're trying to put pressure on the city in order to get more money in a four-year contract. But the city's mayor, hoping to avoid an embarrassment and convention chaos, says there's only so much he can do.
THOMAS MENINO, MAYOR OF BOSTON: We are in crunch time, but also I have an obligation to the people of Boston also. I cannot spend money I don't have. LOTHIAN: The mayor says his attempt to bring in an arbitrator has been rebuffed by the union.
(on camera): Union members who continue blocking the traffic flow in and out of the FleetCenter say that they should have gotten deals a long time ago. This is their way of turning up the heat. They plan to protest at the FleetCenter 24 hours a day until they get a contract.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Seniors today are a smart and savvy bunch, smart and savvy. And the new Medicare discount cards are driving them nuts nevertheless.
A week after they became available, only a small percentage of those eligible have taken advantage of them. The rest seem to be scratching their heads. In the Senate today, one of the sponsors of the Medicare reform bill that brought the cards into existence cried politics. The confusion, he said, is being spread by the opponents of reform. Senator, try telling that to mom.
Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Senior citizens at this AARP meeting in Little Rock, Arkansas, are looking for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can the cost of those be included in out- of-pocket expense?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will the drugstore help you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Special help for people with low incomes.
LAVANDERA: Informational sessions like this about the new Medicare prescription drug discount cards are taking place all over the country. The prescription cards have reaped confusion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of this is just a big joke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't see that it's helped me.
LAVANDERA: There are about 70 different discount cards. The number available depends on where you live. Each card offers different discounts on different drugs. And not all pharmacies accept every card.
REP. MARION BERRY (D), ARKANSAS: You're buying a pig in a poke. You don't know what you're really getting, have no idea or no guarantee that what you thought you bought is going to be the same way a month from now. LAVANDERA: Medicare recipients can only sign up for one card. And the companies can change prices or coverage at any time during the year.
(on camera): Critics also say that prescription drug prices have gone up so much in the last year that any savings the card could provide have already evaporated. But Medicare officials say that's not true. They expect the card to provide millions of dollars in savings.
MARK JOHNSON, AARP ARKANSAS: You have to shop around for your best deal. It all depends. There is no one best card. It depends on your particular situation, what medications you take and other factors.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Medicare tries to make it easy to find the best deal, offering Internet and telephone help. But many seniors are overwhelmed by the choices and the process.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here is the prescription.
LAVANDERA: Anne Jackson has a lot of homework to do. She take nine medications a day. To find the best deal, she'll have to compare discounts for each of those medications on more than 30 different cards.
ANNE JACKSON, MEDICARE RECIPIENT: And it is very complicated, you'll have to admit, because there's so many choices.
LAVANDERA: Medicare says almost three million people have the cards, but 2.3 million of those were automatically enrolled, which means only about 600,000 have signed up voluntarily. Medicare insists people will take advantage of the card.
MARK MCCLELLAN, COMMISSIONER, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: The time it takes to make a call to us and think about comparing the prices that you're paying now for the savings that you can get on the drug card, it means that you're leaving money on the table if you don't take those few minutes to find out about this program.
LAVANDERA: Anne Jackson and others only have a short time to figure this out. In 2006, a different prescription drug plan goes into effect. And then it will be time for senior citizens to learn a new deal all over again.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Little Rock, Arkansas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll get a look at what a few of the thousands who have paid their respects to Ronald Reagan were saying, thinking and feeling. We'll join them in the line.
And later, tomorrow morning's papers. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Frank Buckley reported earlier on many who have made the trip to the Reagan Library in Simi Valley.
CNN's Thelma Gutierrez went in search of their stories. And as sometimes happens, one story led to another, which is the sort of thing that happens when you get in the line.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a test of patience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No cameras, folks.
GUTIERREZ: And endurance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No water. No cameras.
GUTIERREZ: For two military men who met in this line, none of it mattered, not the lines, not the crowds, nor the three-, four- or five-hour wait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got wonderful memories of him.
GUTIERREZ: For 25-year-old 2nd Lieutenant Sean Hines (ph), it was a chance to pay his respects to a former president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was an honest, trustworthy man.
GUTIERREZ: For 61-year-old retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Robert Lazaro (ph), it was a chance to say goodbye to a commander in chief he knew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the president where he wanted to be safely and on time.
GUTIERREZ: For 5 1/2 years, Lazaro (ph) was a pilot aboard Air Force One. In 1981, he flew the president from California to Washington for his inauguration. Lazaro remembers his last night before he retired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was in command of the air. And he knew it was my last trip because they'd had my going-away party the week before that. And he came up in the cockpit, shook my hand and he said, I understand you're leaving us. And I said, yes, that's right, Mr. President. I'm going to retire. And he said, oh, that's great, because now you can go ride horses. But I have to come here now to tell him that he can ride horses.
GUTIERREZ: For this Vietnam veteran and former Reagan pilot, the walk through this line was full of nostalgia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you saw him in front of the camera, it made you happy and proud to be an American because the way he handled himself made you feel good about yourself.
GUTIERREZ: He said this moment captured the essence of their relationship. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just adored Nancy Reagan and the way she took care of him, the way she looked after him.
GUTIERREZ: After four hours, they finally boarded the bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a final goodbye and something I have kind of known was coming.
GUTIERREZ: Nearly five hours later, they have neared the end of their journey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly had a good life. A lot of people are going to remember him. It's just sad.
Two more flights. He's got to fly to Washington. He's got to fly back. Then he can rest.
GUTIERREZ: Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Simi Valley, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world.
One of those -- there was a story out of Tamps today in "The Tampa Tribune." They ran the wrong editorial. They ran an editorial saying, well, even though the Tampa Bay Lightning lost the Stanley Cup, they were still great. They won the Stanley Cup.
Speaking of little problems, "The International Herald Tribune" leads this way: "U.S. Expected To Get U.N. Support On Iraq." Hey, wait, it's already happened. But pay no attention to that. What's that about, you ask? That's about Venus. That was the story today. And I paid no -- I meant to pay attention to this today and didn't. But now I've got those pictures. I was busy.
"The Washington Times" leads with the U.N. "U.N. Approves Iraq Resolution." Down here, a good local story. "Schools Will Not Report Illegals." This is an issue "The Washington Times" spends a lot of time on. And so it put it on the front page to show it cares about that.
"Philadelphia Inquirer," still no Smarty Jones story, OK, none. All those other stories. "Ashcroft Rebuffs Call For Memo on Torture." Is that uncomfortable or what?
"The Cincinnati Enquirer" leads local. "Who is Nat Comisar and Why is He Threatening to Move His Restaurant From Downtown?" I have no idea, in fact. But I know that one of the great battles in Cincinnati is to keep the downtown core alive. And it has been a struggle for the good people of Cincinnati.
Let's save these two for tomorrow. They're weeklies.
Actually, let's go just right over there because I want to talk about this. "The Chicago Sun-Times." "Hef's Little Black Book: How You Can Live His Life, Sort Of." OK, I'm too old for that. That's the truth.
It is going to be warm in Chicago tomorrow, "equatorial," for Hef and the rest of us. Hef.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: If you haven't made your plans for morning coffee, here's Soledad O'Brien with a look ahead at tomorrow's "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Aaron.
Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," will the death of Ronald Reagan change U.S. policy on stem cell research? Nancy Reagan has pleaded for new rules in the hopes of finding a cure for Alzheimer's. Now a majority in the Senate agree. Will the president? That's CNN tomorrow, 7:00 a.m. Eastern -- Aaron, back to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Soledad, thank you.
We're down in Washington tomorrow, as the nation begins remembering Ronald Reagan officially.
Good night.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 8, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.
We woke up this morning to yet another reminder of how abnormal the new normal can be. We read news accounts of Justice Department memos outlining when torture is acceptable and how the laws against it could be circumvented. The memos, as we'll report a bit later carefully, legal in their language, are stunning in their implications.
Depending on your point of view they were either necessary in the world we find ourselves in or an example of the sort of dangers the new normal thinking can foster but this is the world we find ourselves in, a world where a country of extraordinary ideals is debating how much torture is too much.
The whip begins it all the whip begins with Iraq but in New York at the U.N. and the resolution, CNN's Richard Roth starts us off with a headline -- Richard.
RICHARD ROTH, CNN SR. UNITED NATIONS CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, this time the United States got what it wanted in the Security Council on Iraq but will unity bring real change there -- Aaron.
BROWN: Richard, thank you.
Next to the leaders of the countries that made it possible, though by no means easy, our Senior White House Correspondent John King with the president in Savannah, Georgia at the summit, John the headline from there.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, Russia's president today praised U.S. diplomacy on Iraq and the White House rushed to call Germany's chancellor a friend, what a difference that vote made and quickly -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
Next to Washington and what reads, as we said, like an official justification for torture, if only the makings of it. Kelli Arena worked on this today, so Kelli the headline.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the attorney general faced a grilling from Senators who wanted to know if the Justice Department gave a green light for torture. The debate was heated and it got personal.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you.
And finally to Simi Valley and the pilgrimage still underway at the Reagan Library, Frank Buckley there again tonight, Frank a headline.
FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, officials here at the Reagan Library say they expected huge crowds but not like this. Tens of thousands of people have passed by President Reagan's casket, most of them enduring traffic, long lines and hours of waiting just to get here.
BROWN: Frank, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest coming up in a moment.
Also coming up tonight in the hour ahead Alzheimer's disease steals thousands of people away from their loved ones every year just as it stole away Ronald Reagan. Is there any progress towards a cure? We'll take a look tonight.
And the new Medicare discount cards are they a real help to seniors or just another frustrating and confusing government program?
And one person who never confuses us, well not a person but an animal, the rooster who arrives with your morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin over at the United Nations where the Security Council today unanimously approved a resolution to hand over power in Iraq on the 30th of June. The vote came 14 months after Saddam Hussein's fall from power, just 22 days before Iraq's new interim government takes control. There were many revisions and much negotiation along the way but, in the end, the president got what he wanted and needed international support in Iraq.
Here again, CNN's Richard Roth.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH (voice-over): The U.S. and France together again on Iraq. They had company at the United Nations. By a 15-0 vote, the Security Council endorsed the transfer of political authority to Iraq.
JOHN NEGROPONTE, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: With today's vote we acknowledge an important milestone. By June 30th, Iraq will reassert its sovereignty.
ROTH: Diplomats call it a catalyst for change in Iraq.
HOSHYAR ZEBARI, IRAQI FOREIGN MINISTER: The significance of this resolution for us, for the Iraqis, is really to take away the concept of occupation.
ROTH: The resolution also opens the door for more international help in Iraq, especially economic aid. ZEBARI: We view this resolution as the most significant step since the first Gulf War towards the full normalization of the situation in Iraq.
ROTH: But don't look for a rush by other nations to send troops. In fact, France tried to lead the diplomatic charge to change the resolution in order to guarantee the Iraqis the right to veto actions by the American troops that will stay on after June 30th. After Iraq failed to back that request, France compromised but with a parting shot.
JEAN MARC DE LA SABLIERE, FRENCH AMBASSADOR TO U.N. (through translator): France cannot, moreover, imagine that the multinational force would go against the opinion of Iraq's sovereign government.
ROTH: Instead, under the resolution the U.S. and Iraq will coordinate on sensitive offensive operations. There is a potential exit time for the troops, January, 2006 or earlier if Iraq decides but Iraqi leaders say that's not imminent. And now the United Nations can return to Iraq to help with elections and the writing of a constitution, all depending on security.
Several diplomats said passage of the resolution puts a greater burden on Iraq to live up to the spirit of the resolution and on other countries to provide assistance.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROTH: China's ambassador, among others, said it's a big day for the U.N. and Iraq, however, an Iraqi official here said talk is cheap. Despite all the back slapping and praise they want to see some commitment to restore and recover in Iraq -- Aaron.
BROWN: Richard, does this mean that there will be more foreign troops, more non-American troops in Iraq?
ROTH: It does but it's not likely to happen anytime soon. There will be some forces from other countries to protect the U.N. when it goes back in. That's part of this resolution.
BROWN: Richard, thank you very much, Richard Roth at the U.N. tonight.
The vote at the U.N. came on the day one of the G8 Summit of the coast of Georgia. President Bush is hosting seven world leaders, including the heads of France, Germany and Russia. All three opposed the war in Iraq vigorously, which made today's vote at the U.N. and the international support it delivered especially sweet for President Bush.
That part of the story from our Senior White House Correspondent John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Russia's Vladimir Putin was one of three Iraq War critics on the president's afternoon schedule and from the White House perspective word of the unanimous vote at the United Nations was a perfect kickoff to the Sea Island Summit.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The vote today in the United Nations Security Council was a great victory for the Iraqi people. The international community showed that they'll stand side by side with the Iraqi people.
KING: Relieved too is embattled British Prime Minister Tony Blair who called it a powerful message to terrorists and insurgents in Iraq.
TONY BLAIR, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: They now know that it isn't just the United States and the U.K. or indeed the multinational force. It's the whole of the United Nations and the world community.
KING: Partnership is the president's summit theme and Germany's chancellor was on script not a mention of his fierce opposition to war, hearty praise for the new spirit of cooperation.
GERHARD SCHROEDER, GERMAN CHANCELLOR (through translator): We think that this resolution will be a good basis, a good foundation for enhancing stability.
KING: The group of eight was split down the middle on the war. The United States, Great Britain, Italy and Japan in favor; France, Germany, Canada and Russia vehemently opposed. Mr. Bush wants unity now and signed off on a number of concessions to win U.N. blessing on the summit's opening day.
BUSH: I think this is a very important moment on the -- on making sure that our objective is achieved.
KING: The Security Council vote is unlikely to bring new international troops or even major new financial commitments for Iraq's reconstruction but the White House was eager to celebrate a victory after weeks, if not months, of Iraq setbacks.
The leaders are meeting at Sea Island, a resort community now surrounded by extraordinary security. Miles away, demonstrators made clear their views, another reminder of how the Iraq War has damaged Mr. Bush's image on the world stage and here at home.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Now the president hoping this summit brings new cooperation, a new chapter even in international cooperation not only on Iraq but other issues as well and, Aaron, the president also hopes very much that the next few days provide a number of words and images that help him rebut Democrat John Kerry's assertion that this president, President Bush, has simply failed the test of building and managing alliances -- Aaron.
BROWN: When does the president head back to Washington for the Reagan events that will go on at the end of the week? KING: He will come back late Thursday night and he will deliver a eulogy Friday at the national cathedral for the funeral services. Vice President Cheney will represent the president and the administration Wednesday night when President Reagan's body is brought up to the United States Capitol.
The White House says it consulted with the Reagan family and that Nancy Reagan completely supported that decision for the president to stay here and continue his work at the summit.
BROWN: John, thank you.
KING: Thank you.
BROWN: John King our White House Correspondent.
For Iraqis, security means little -- rather sovereignty means little without security and today in Iraq, again, there was precious little security. In Baquba north of Baghdad a car bomb went off outside an American base. One soldier and at least four locals died in the explosion.
Farther north in Mosul, at least nine civilians were killed in a similar explosion. Witnesses say the bomb was placed in a taxicab with three men onboard. The blast apparently targeted a number of local officials, including the mayor. They all escaped without serious injuries.
On the bright side of things, American and Polish Special Forces freed four hostages, three Italians and a Pole. The Italians had been held since April. That said, about 20 hostages remain in captivity in the hands of a number of shadowy groups. All of that on the ground in Iraq.
Back in Washington, the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal has taken another turn. Again, a document has surfaced this time legal memos written last year by administration lawyers. In these memos, the lawyers appear to make a case for torture by explaining why international and U.S. law on torture would not apply to the president.
The document is not sitting well with the Senate Judiciary Committee. Today some very angry members demanded answers from that Attorney General John Ashcroft. It was Mr. Ashcroft's first meeting with the committee in more than a year and it is fair to say it got quite tense.
Here's CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): Senators demanded to know if the Justice Department told the president it was legally OK to torture al Qaeda terrorists and whether the president, based on that advice, issued an order on interrogations that led to the abuse at Abu Ghraib Prison. SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D), MASSACHUSETTS: We know when we have these kinds of orders what happens. We get the stress test. We get the use of dogs. We get the forced nakedness that we've all seen.
JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: First of all, let me completely reject the notion that anything that this president has done or the Justice Department has done has directly resulted in the kinds of atrocities which were cited. That is false.
ARENA: Justice Department lawyers did contribute to a March, 2003 report obtained by CNN which suggests interrogators have broad latitude to use pressure when questioning detainees.
SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D), VERMONT: Did your department issue a memorandum in which it suggested torture is allowed under certain circumstances as the press has reported?
ASHCROFT: The president has not directed or ordered any conduct that would violate the Constitution of the United States.
ARENA: But Ashcroft refused repeated Democratic demands to turn over memos or to tell Senators what legal advice he gave the president and the sparring got personal.
SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: See and there's a reason why we sign these treaties to protect my son in the military. That's why we have these treaties so when Americans are captured they are not tortured. That's the reason in case anybody forgets it. That's the reason. I yield the floor.
ASHCROFT: Well, as a person whose son is in the military now on active duty and has been in the Gulf within the last several months, I am aware of those considerations and I care about your son.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: Some Senators even threatened the attorney general with contempt of Congress for not relating what he told the president. Without citing executive privilege, they say he has an obligation to answer all of their questions -- Aaron.
BROWN: Where does this go?
ARENA: Well, if the members of the committee are to be believed they may go ahead and subpoena those memos and let the White House either declare executive privilege or turn them over. The committee does have oversight over the Justice Department and says that it is conducting its own investigation to find out if the president did indeed give the go ahead.
BROWN: And was it absolutely partisan today? Were there Republicans who seemed as concerned?
ARENA: It sure seemed that way, Aaron. It sure seemed that way. The most heated debate came when the Democrats were questioning the attorney general. But I have to say, you know, the attorney general did -- you said before where is it going?
One of the other facets to this conversation today was that Ashcroft repeatedly said that investigations at the Justice Department were underway and that if there were -- if there was any proof of wrongdoing, crimes being committed that he set up a special team in Virginia to prosecute those cases, so you are going to see a track, a political track and a legal track.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you, Kelli Arena in Washington tonight.
Lawyers are paid to advise their clients to lay out legal arguments, all of them, and so is this memo simply a matter of lawyers doing their work? Does it in any way tie the White House to the torture in Iraq?
Scott Silliman is a professor of law at Duke University where he also directs the Center on Law Ethics and National Security. He is a retired U.S. Air Force colonel as well who provided legal support to Air Force commanders in the Persian Gulf War and he joins us from Durham, North Carolina. That's a long introduction, Scott.
SCOTT SILLIMAN, DUKE UNIVERSITY LAW SCHOOL: Good evening again, Aaron.
BROWN: Good to see you sir. When you read this stuff today what was your first reaction?
SILLIMAN: Well, Aaron a sad reaction because I think we'll find that this is one of a series of memos that cover a span of almost 18 months where government agencies prominently the Justice Department have sought to put a legal regime together that will thwart any kind of prosecution against any government agency that conducts interrogation techniques that are in violation of the law.
BROWN: One of the problems I think so far is that we're looking at this in a vacuum and we need to fill in some of the vacuum. It's clear that we know this, the record shows this, that the secretary of defense was frustrated by the lack of good information coming out of the interrogations.
SILLIMAN: That's correct, Aaron, and we do know that these techniques and much of the matter in these memos was originally meant to apply to Guantanamo Bay. The earliest memo, the one by John Yoo in January of 2002, running all the way through last year, the military working group, military civilian attorneys in the Pentagon, all this had to do with Guantanamo Bay.
The problem then is those memos, that legal regime that was created to skirt the Geneva Conventions and the War Crimes Act, our own law in this country, were possibly exported over to Iraq and therefore that could have been one of the reasons we all saw those horrendous photos out of Abu Ghraib.
BROWN: Well, maybe the money question here is one of the arguments that is contained in the memos is a necessity defense, essentially that if you need to torture to prevent a greater harm then that's OK basically. That's a pretty simplified version of a complicated legal argument but that's what it is. What's wrong with that?
SILLIMAN: Well, what's wrong with it, Aaron, is there's no legal foundation for it and you won't find that in the law. The argument put forward in that memo and other memos like it that have already surfaced and others that will come is, one, that you would find the vast majority of lawyers will not agree with, even the most conservative lawyers.
I think what needs to be mentioned, Aaron, is the military lawyers, the JAGs in the Pentagon and in the field, the ones that participated last year in the working group were vehemently opposed to this theory and yet their voices were trumped by the civilian attorneys in the Pentagon.
BROWN: And just briefly why was their opposition so strong?
SILLIMAN: Aaron, they believe, and I think rightfully so, that when you start down this path of looking for ways to skirt international law, just as Biden said today in the Senate, you put your own servicemen at risk.
You set a precedent that other countries will do the same to our servicemen. For 50 years, we have been preaching to our servicemen compliance with the rule of law. This new legal regime changes that culture and dangerously so.
BROWN: Scott, it's good to see you. Next time I promise we'll introduce you in less than 30 seconds and add that to the conversation. It's nice to see you.
SILLIMAN: Thanks, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you.
SILLIMAN: Good night.
BROWN: Ahead on the program tonight, at this hour in Simi Valley, California people are still passing by to bid farewell to Ronald Reagan. We'll go out to the presidential library when we come back and we'll look at how the president's illness cast a new light on a horrible disease Alzheimer's. We'll take a break first.
From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The Ronald Reagan Library in Simi Valley, California tonight, this scene, the scene that you are looking at has been going on now for a day and a half I guess constantly, thousands upon thousands of people have passed by quietly just walking by, stopping for a moment. Some salute. Some move on just to be there to be a part of this moment.
Tomorrow morning the casket bearing the president's body will be flown finally to Washington where the official national remembrances will begin. Until then, as we just showed you, the people from near and far just keep on coming.
Here again, CNN's Frank Buckley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY (voice-over): The outpouring for President Reagan three days after his death so great that lines to catch shuttle busses just to get to the library stretched for hours, traffic snarled and library officials extended viewing hours just to meet the demand.
GARY FOSTER, REAGAN FAMILY SPOKESMAN: Well, we were prepared for there to be a fairly great outpouring of affection for the president because, after all, this is, you know, the heart of Reagan country but we had no idea it was going to be like this to tell you the truth.
BUCKLEY: Some waited four hours in line to catch a shuttle bus but few, if any, complained.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I feel really honored, honored to be here even four and a half hours later half asleep.
BUCKLEY: At the president's casket some salute, others shed tears. There are families and individuals, boy scouts and senior citizens. They spend about two minutes in the presence of the late president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My feet hurt. My back hurts. I'll be 62 this month and there are older people here but it was worth it.
BUCKLEY: Among those paying respects this day, Senator John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president. Kerry in Los Angeles to attend his daughter's graduation from film school canceled overt campaigning for the week in observance of President Reagan's death.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BUCKLEY: And the people continue to come here tonight, we're told at a rate of 2,000 to 3,000 people per hour, some of them true believers, Aaron, others here to be a witness to a moment in history.
The hours of viewing were extended from 6:00 p.m. local time to 10:00 p.m. local time to accommodate as many people as possible. Library officials say they expect 100,000 people in all to see the casket by the time the viewing period ends.
And today, word from Nancy Reagan that she was moved by what she has seen. She released a statement through the president's office saying: "It is unbelievable what I am seeing on TV" -- Aaron.
BROWN: Will there be people who are in line that do not get into the library tonight?
BUCKLEY: I don't think so because what they have done throughout the day is they've adjusted the time by which you have to go catch the shuttle bus. First it was supposed to be three o'clock local time. They said if you didn't get there by 3:00 you wouldn't catch it.
Then they said 6:00. Now it's 7:30, so they've tried to make sure that everyone who makes the effort to get here and gets on a shuttle bus will, in fact, see the president's casket.
BROWN: Frank, thank you for your work this week, Frank Buckley out in Simi Valley, California.
Ten years ago, President Reagan put a public face on a disease that millions of people suffer from quite privately. Roughly four million Americans have Alzheimer's, a disease whose cause and cure remain stubborn mysteries.
Millions more will develop it as the American population ages. President Reagan could have kept his diagnosis private but instead he told the world, a decision that raised awareness and some say much more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Since he told the world a decade ago that he had Alzheimer's, scientists say there has been steady progress into detecting both the causes and identifying possible cures for the disease.
STEPHEN MCCONNELL, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, ALZHEIMER'S ASSOCIATION: In 1994, we had just approved the very first drug treatment for Alzheimer's disease. There are now five that have been approved by the FDA. Funding by the federal government at that time was about $298 million a year. It's now almost $700 million a year. I think much of that can be attributed to President Reagan's statement, his willingness to come forward and really the appreciation that the world has for his contributions.
BROWN: Alzheimer's is a steady progressive brain disorder usually affecting those over 65. It steals their memories, their speech, their perception of the world around them. Doctors who see Alzheimer's patients and their families say there was widespread awareness that it had afflicted someone as famous as Ronald Reagan.
DR. PAUL AISEN, GEORGETOWN UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: The term Alzheimer's disease carries a stigma. It can be upsetting. To have President Reagan publicly announce that he had received this diagnosis ten years ago I think was tremendously helpful for patients and their families allowing them to much more comfortably deal with the symptoms and with the diagnosis allowing more people to seek treatment.
BROWN: At Georgetown and other research centers around the country, scientists believe one of the keys to finding an Alzheimer's cure may lie in the use of stem cells but just before 9/11 the president placed strict guidelines on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.
AISEN: As a scientist I want to pursue every promising avenue that may lead to treatment for these debilitating diseases, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease and others, so I am all in favor of not closing down any avenues.
BROWN: Nancy Reagan, of course, issued public calls for more research on stem cells and now some politicians believe that her husband's death may open the door to a White House change of heart.
REP. MIKE CASTLE (R) DELAWARE: I think there is a chance this administration may alter its stance on stem cell research but I also thought there was a chance before the death of President Reagan and the outpouring of great affection for him and, of course, the statements made by Nancy Reagan.
REP. DIANE DEGETTE (D), COLORADO: If it comes down to politics for the White House then what they'll look at is the polling that shows that a solid majority of Americans, including those from the religious right, support stem cell research.
BROWN: Finding a cure for Alzheimer's may be years and years away with or without stem cell research. Researchers say that money and political will are keys and that Ronald Reagan's decade long battle with the disease may eventually result in helping untold others.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: One other quick item on this. Bill Frist, the Senate Majority Leader, introduced an amendment to the defense bill today to rename the Pentagon in honor of Mr. Reagan.
And, on the programming note side of things, CNN of course will bring you the memorial services as they happen tomorrow and throughout the week, 4:30 tomorrow afternoon it begins from Washington.
Jeff Greenfield and more after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The authors of a new book on the conservative movement in America describe Ronald Reagan this way. "He was a sectarian," they write, "with an ecumenical spirit, a true believer without the usual flaws of a true believer."
In navigating the ship of politics, politicians trim their sails from time to time. At least the good ones do.
Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: He was, of course, the symbol of American conservatism. And he proclaimed one of its central creeds at the moment he took power. REAGAN: It is my intention to curb the size and influence of the federal establishment, to get government back within its means, and to lighten our punitive tax burden.
GREENFIELD: But did he do this? He cut taxes in 1981 by 25 percent, but the next year turned around and raised them. By one measure, it was the largest tax hike in history. And not only did he not abolish the Departments of Education and Energy, as he had proposed...
REAGAN: This bill gives those who have borne America's battles...
GREENFIELD: He turned Veterans Affairs into a new Cabinet-level department. And while he had this to say about deficits...
REAGAN: We have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and children's future for the temporary convenience of the present.
GREENFIELD: The deficit actually doubled on his watch.
(on camera): In fact, there is enough in Reagan's tenure that cuts against the conservative grain that some voices from the liberal corner have begun in recent years to claim Reagan as one of their own, sort of.
(voice-over): Last year, for example, "The Washington Monthly" magazine cited several examples of what it called Reagan's liberalism. His Social Security reform imposed taxes on benefits that went to the affluent elderly. The earned income tax credit gave subsidies to the working poor. And under Reagan, people below the poverty line paid no federal income tax at all.
Moreover, a major tax reform package in 1986 shaped in good part by Democrats Dick Gephardt...
REP. RICHARD GEPHARDT (D), MISSOURI: What it is this deduction is about...
GREENFIELD: And Bill Bradley.
SEN. BILL BRADLEY (D), NEW JERSEY: The bill is a powerful force.
GREENFIELD: ... slammed shut a raft of corporate loopholes, even as it lowered marginal tax rates.
In foreign policy, Reagan's massive defense buildup was designed to prove to Moscow that it could not win an arms race so that it might choose the path of disarmament. While protesters demanded that Reagan back a freeze on nuclear weapons, he claimed his real goal was to get rid of them entirely, something he and Mikhail Gorbachev strongly considered doing at the Reykjavik summit in 1986, much to the dismay of his staff.
Reagan's conservative admirers note that Democrats controlled half or all the Congress during Reagan's years, so compromise was necessary. They also say that the shift in the political terrain was clearly toward the right, so much so that Bill Clinton won in 1992 only after he threw many liberal orthodoxies over the side.
(on camera): Well, maybe it is not a surprising that liberals want to claim a piece of the Reagan legacy. Reagan himself quoted himself Franklin D. Roosevelt during his 1980 acceptance speech. And he often cited John Kennedy's tax-cutting ideas in support of his own.
What this shows is just how long of a shadow Reagan cast across the breadth of the American political landscape.
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: David Brooks has been called the liberal's favorite conservative columnist. He casts a long shot of himself across the op-ed page of "The New York Times." Mr. Brooks is a recent author of "On Paradise Drive: How We Live Now (And Always Have) in the Future Tense."
And we're very pleased to see him.
Waited a while. Nice to have you here.
There's actually an interesting parallel I think in the news of this moment, of the president's passing and one of the themes of the book, which is that Americans are an inherently optimistic group. Somehow, it will work out.
DAVID BROOKS, AUTHOR, "ON PARADISE DRIVE": Yes.
When you look, and you can go back to the Westward expansion. One of the things people noticed about those pioneers who moved West was, first of all, they had no clue what they were getting into. They just figured something better was there. And then they'd move West and they would go past perfectly good farmland, figuring that over the next ridge there was something even better. And that's that future- minded mentality that Reagan had in spades.
BROWN: Is there -- this desire we have for something better all the time, bigger and better all the time, is it a sign that at some level we are dissatisfied with what we have?
BROOKS: It's hope. And we think being hopeful is a good thing, but hope is a trickster. Hope tantalizes you into thinking you should always move on, you should always get better. And it accounts for the fact that we do tend to work hard and rise.
It also accounts for the fact that we divorce more often. When we move to suburbs, sometimes, we are not happy there, because we figure if we move to some new place, new must be better than old. Sometimes we venture out in the world in ways that seems reckless in retrospect.
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: I think, if you asked people, though -- I think all of that is true, but if you asked people, they'd say at some level what they want is Mayberry, sort of Main Street USA of the '50s.
BROOKS: Yes. I think what we want is paradise.
I think this started when people first landed on these shores, the Europeans. They thought, well, God's plan can be realized here. And at the same time we can get rich while doing it. And so they wanted some perfect, ultimate happiness. You go to the magazine rack, you look at all these magazines, it is just perfect heaven, "Architectural Digest," perfect homes, "Oprah" magazine, perfect life. It's just perfection all around.
BROWN: Let's talk about one area of imperfection these days, Iraq. You've not been altogether optimistic over the last few months or so. One of the most interesting things you have had to say is that we might have to accept a fair amount of anti-Americanism from the Iraqis if we're going to get to success.
BROOKS: Right.
BROOKS: I supported this war. And I still support it. I still think in the long run it can work out.
But I wrote a column making this case that, in order to win we have to lose. And what we have to lose is an election. We have to give Iraqis an electoral chance to voice their opposition to us, at our incompetence, and the fact that we tried to dominate their country. And it is their country. And we had no right to do that. And so we tried to dominate that. And we have to give them an early election where they can campaign against us.
And they can have speeches and ballots and votes against the U.S., which will be a lot better than bombs and RPGs and missiles.
BROWN: Are you -- does it distress you that the arguments that the president used to get into the war turned out to be at least as we sit here today inaccurate?
BROOKS: I'm appalled by the intelligence failure. But, for me, it was never about that. And I think for me and my colleague Tom Friedman...
BROWN: Why didn't they make -- if it was about human rights, and I think that was the great argument -- they didn't argue it, but it was the argument -- why didn't they make it?
BROOKS: Well, I think they did in many respects.
I sat at several speeches where the president made that argument. They didn't make it at the U.N. because they had to get a U.N. resolution. And the U.N. was all about WMD. I think we just could not have allowed the Middle East to go down the trajectory it was going down. We could not have allowed Saddam to pass that region down to Uday and Qusay. And so I still think fundamentally it was the right thing to do. It's too bad we've made it so hard.
BROWN: Good to have you with us. I hope you'll come back.
BROOKS: Oh, it's a pleasure.
BROWN: Thank you very much, David Brooks with "The New York Times."
Still to come on the program tonight, are the new Medicare prescription cards more trouble than they're worth? And, for that matter, how much are they really worth anyway?
Over 80,000 people stood in line in just the past day or so, in the past hours. Why are they doing that? We'll get in line with them tonight.
Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Democratic Conventions don't always go smoothly. In 1972, one thing after another kept George McGovern from giving his acceptance speech until most of the country had gone to bed. Violence surrounded the '68 convention in Chicago, of course. And while nobody expects a repeat in Boston later this year, there's trouble just the same.
It seems the party of organized labor is having problems with organized labor, in this case, the union representing Boston Police.
So from Boston tonight, here's CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want these contracts brought to term. And we'd like them brought to term now, long before the convention.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): On the day when work was to begin transforming the home of the Boston Celtics into a convention hall, the Patrolmen's Association is joined by other unions, locking trucks, handing out leaflets and strongly encouraging workers going in to go home.
PROTESTERS: Shame on you!
LOTHIAN: Many workers did leave. As city employees, these union members can't strike. And while they threaten convention construction, their picketing will be kept out of sight just like other protesters once delegates start arriving. So they're trying to put pressure on the city in order to get more money in a four-year contract. But the city's mayor, hoping to avoid an embarrassment and convention chaos, says there's only so much he can do.
THOMAS MENINO, MAYOR OF BOSTON: We are in crunch time, but also I have an obligation to the people of Boston also. I cannot spend money I don't have. LOTHIAN: The mayor says his attempt to bring in an arbitrator has been rebuffed by the union.
(on camera): Union members who continue blocking the traffic flow in and out of the FleetCenter say that they should have gotten deals a long time ago. This is their way of turning up the heat. They plan to protest at the FleetCenter 24 hours a day until they get a contract.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Seniors today are a smart and savvy bunch, smart and savvy. And the new Medicare discount cards are driving them nuts nevertheless.
A week after they became available, only a small percentage of those eligible have taken advantage of them. The rest seem to be scratching their heads. In the Senate today, one of the sponsors of the Medicare reform bill that brought the cards into existence cried politics. The confusion, he said, is being spread by the opponents of reform. Senator, try telling that to mom.
Here's CNN's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Senior citizens at this AARP meeting in Little Rock, Arkansas, are looking for help.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can the cost of those be included in out- of-pocket expense?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will the drugstore help you?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Special help for people with low incomes.
LAVANDERA: Informational sessions like this about the new Medicare prescription drug discount cards are taking place all over the country. The prescription cards have reaped confusion.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All of this is just a big joke.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can't see that it's helped me.
LAVANDERA: There are about 70 different discount cards. The number available depends on where you live. Each card offers different discounts on different drugs. And not all pharmacies accept every card.
REP. MARION BERRY (D), ARKANSAS: You're buying a pig in a poke. You don't know what you're really getting, have no idea or no guarantee that what you thought you bought is going to be the same way a month from now. LAVANDERA: Medicare recipients can only sign up for one card. And the companies can change prices or coverage at any time during the year.
(on camera): Critics also say that prescription drug prices have gone up so much in the last year that any savings the card could provide have already evaporated. But Medicare officials say that's not true. They expect the card to provide millions of dollars in savings.
MARK JOHNSON, AARP ARKANSAS: You have to shop around for your best deal. It all depends. There is no one best card. It depends on your particular situation, what medications you take and other factors.
LAVANDERA (voice-over): Medicare tries to make it easy to find the best deal, offering Internet and telephone help. But many seniors are overwhelmed by the choices and the process.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here is the prescription.
LAVANDERA: Anne Jackson has a lot of homework to do. She take nine medications a day. To find the best deal, she'll have to compare discounts for each of those medications on more than 30 different cards.
ANNE JACKSON, MEDICARE RECIPIENT: And it is very complicated, you'll have to admit, because there's so many choices.
LAVANDERA: Medicare says almost three million people have the cards, but 2.3 million of those were automatically enrolled, which means only about 600,000 have signed up voluntarily. Medicare insists people will take advantage of the card.
MARK MCCLELLAN, COMMISSIONER, FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION: The time it takes to make a call to us and think about comparing the prices that you're paying now for the savings that you can get on the drug card, it means that you're leaving money on the table if you don't take those few minutes to find out about this program.
LAVANDERA: Anne Jackson and others only have a short time to figure this out. In 2006, a different prescription drug plan goes into effect. And then it will be time for senior citizens to learn a new deal all over again.
Ed Lavandera, CNN, Little Rock, Arkansas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, we'll get a look at what a few of the thousands who have paid their respects to Ronald Reagan were saying, thinking and feeling. We'll join them in the line.
And later, tomorrow morning's papers. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Frank Buckley reported earlier on many who have made the trip to the Reagan Library in Simi Valley.
CNN's Thelma Gutierrez went in search of their stories. And as sometimes happens, one story led to another, which is the sort of thing that happens when you get in the line.
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a test of patience.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No cameras, folks.
GUTIERREZ: And endurance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No water. No cameras.
GUTIERREZ: For two military men who met in this line, none of it mattered, not the lines, not the crowds, nor the three-, four- or five-hour wait.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've got wonderful memories of him.
GUTIERREZ: For 25-year-old 2nd Lieutenant Sean Hines (ph), it was a chance to pay his respects to a former president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was an honest, trustworthy man.
GUTIERREZ: For 61-year-old retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Robert Lazaro (ph), it was a chance to say goodbye to a commander in chief he knew.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get the president where he wanted to be safely and on time.
GUTIERREZ: For 5 1/2 years, Lazaro (ph) was a pilot aboard Air Force One. In 1981, he flew the president from California to Washington for his inauguration. Lazaro remembers his last night before he retired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was in command of the air. And he knew it was my last trip because they'd had my going-away party the week before that. And he came up in the cockpit, shook my hand and he said, I understand you're leaving us. And I said, yes, that's right, Mr. President. I'm going to retire. And he said, oh, that's great, because now you can go ride horses. But I have to come here now to tell him that he can ride horses.
GUTIERREZ: For this Vietnam veteran and former Reagan pilot, the walk through this line was full of nostalgia.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you saw him in front of the camera, it made you happy and proud to be an American because the way he handled himself made you feel good about yourself.
GUTIERREZ: He said this moment captured the essence of their relationship. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just adored Nancy Reagan and the way she took care of him, the way she looked after him.
GUTIERREZ: After four hours, they finally boarded the bus.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was a final goodbye and something I have kind of known was coming.
GUTIERREZ: Nearly five hours later, they have neared the end of their journey.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly had a good life. A lot of people are going to remember him. It's just sad.
Two more flights. He's got to fly to Washington. He's got to fly back. Then he can rest.
GUTIERREZ: Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Simi Valley, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world.
One of those -- there was a story out of Tamps today in "The Tampa Tribune." They ran the wrong editorial. They ran an editorial saying, well, even though the Tampa Bay Lightning lost the Stanley Cup, they were still great. They won the Stanley Cup.
Speaking of little problems, "The International Herald Tribune" leads this way: "U.S. Expected To Get U.N. Support On Iraq." Hey, wait, it's already happened. But pay no attention to that. What's that about, you ask? That's about Venus. That was the story today. And I paid no -- I meant to pay attention to this today and didn't. But now I've got those pictures. I was busy.
"The Washington Times" leads with the U.N. "U.N. Approves Iraq Resolution." Down here, a good local story. "Schools Will Not Report Illegals." This is an issue "The Washington Times" spends a lot of time on. And so it put it on the front page to show it cares about that.
"Philadelphia Inquirer," still no Smarty Jones story, OK, none. All those other stories. "Ashcroft Rebuffs Call For Memo on Torture." Is that uncomfortable or what?
"The Cincinnati Enquirer" leads local. "Who is Nat Comisar and Why is He Threatening to Move His Restaurant From Downtown?" I have no idea, in fact. But I know that one of the great battles in Cincinnati is to keep the downtown core alive. And it has been a struggle for the good people of Cincinnati.
Let's save these two for tomorrow. They're weeklies.
Actually, let's go just right over there because I want to talk about this. "The Chicago Sun-Times." "Hef's Little Black Book: How You Can Live His Life, Sort Of." OK, I'm too old for that. That's the truth.
It is going to be warm in Chicago tomorrow, "equatorial," for Hef and the rest of us. Hef.
We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: If you haven't made your plans for morning coffee, here's Soledad O'Brien with a look ahead at tomorrow's "AMERICAN MORNING."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Thanks, Aaron.
Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," will the death of Ronald Reagan change U.S. policy on stem cell research? Nancy Reagan has pleaded for new rules in the hopes of finding a cure for Alzheimer's. Now a majority in the Senate agree. Will the president? That's CNN tomorrow, 7:00 a.m. Eastern -- Aaron, back to you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Soledad, thank you.
We're down in Washington tomorrow, as the nation begins remembering Ronald Reagan officially.
Good night.
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