Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Poll of Iraqis Reveals Anger Toward U.S.; Islamic Group Shows Tape of U.S. Hostage

Aired June 15, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN HOST: Good evening again, everyone.
To use a cliche I actually hate, this is one of those good news- bad news pages.

The bad news first -- this being the news business, did you really expect me to start otherwise? The Coalition Provisional Authority -- that would be the Americans running Iraq -- commissioned a poll of Iraqis. AP obtained a copy, and it's not especially surprising. The CPA would have preferred to keep the results to itself.

In a nutshell, Iraqis neither like us much or trust us much. Fifty-five percent said they'd feel safer if we were gone. That's nearly twice the number it was in January. Just 10 percent of Iraqis said they support the coalition, down from 47 percent in January. Nearly half said they felt unsafe when they left their homes, nearly double the number from the first of the year. Fifty-four percent of Iraqis said they believed all Americans -- all American soldiers in Iraq behaved the way the prison guards at Abu Ghraib behaved. Eight- one percent said they had an improved opinion of Muqtada al-Sadr, the young cleric who has caused the coalition so much trouble and considerable death in the last few months.

So now the good news. Only 2 percent thought Sadr should be president of Iraq. Saddam actually did one point better than that. And two-thirds believed that things will get better after the handover in two weeks. A hundred and forty thousand troops can only hope they're right.

We begin "The Whip" tonight with an American hostage and a new piece of videotape. CNN's Deborah Feyerick is covering Paul Johnson's story.

So Deb, start us off with a headline.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a gunman, a captive, a threat and a Friday deadline, all captured in one chilling video -- Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

On to the back-and-forth over when Iraq's new government will get its hands on the former dictator. For that we go to our senior White House correspondent, John King. John, a headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, by their public comments there appears to be a disagreement between the White House and the new interim Iraqi government over where that new government will get custody of Saddam Hussein. But privately, behind the scenes, officials here at the White House tell us this will all be worked out soon.

BROWN: John, thank you.

Next to the work of the 9/11 commission, and a stunning reappraisal of the timetable for the attacks. David Ensor reported the story today.

So David, a headline.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the revelation that the 9/11 hijackers originally planned to attack in May or June rather than September shows how flexible and confident al Qaeda was. At hearings tomorrow, the 9/11 commission wants to probe further into what mistakes may have been made, and how the next major attack can be stopped -- Aaron.

BROWN: And finally to Baghdad and a voice of reason. Well, two actually. Christiane Amanpour is ours.

Christiane, a headline.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, those disgruntled Iraqis you mentioned in the poll, many of them are pouring their heart out every morning to Iraq's most beloved talk-radio show host. We'll have that report.

BROWN: Christiane, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight, keeping track of the Justice Department's track record on terrorism and the courts. Kelli Arena follows up on many of the high-profile terror arrests made by the U.S. government since 9/11.

Plus the worst thing ever to happen to New York City before 9/11. One hundred years ago today, a fire broke out on board the steamboat General Slocum. The rest is tragic history. Nissen takes us back tonight.

And later, as always, the perfect ending we think -- OK, perfect might be a stretch. But we'll have "Morning Papers."

All that and more to come in the hour ahead. We begin tonight with a man from New Jersey who went to Saudi Arabia to do a job, and now finds himself at the epicenter of a holy war. Al Qaeda has made its no secret of its desire to drive Westerners from the Arabian peninsula and ultimately topple the Saudi royal family. Toward that end so far, we've seen bombings and shootings and abductions. And tonight, one of the true obscenities of the new normal: it came with a deadline.

Here again, CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK (voice-over): He is blindfolded. His shirt torn, revealing a prominent tattoo on his left arm. In speech that is sometimes slurred, the captive says he is missing American Paul Marshall Johnson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul Marshall Johnson Jr. I work on Apache helicopters.

FEYERICK: The captive appears for about 25 seconds. The video is heavily edited, the kidnapper selecting only certain statements. At one point for a few seconds, the man on the tape is seen with a bandage wrapped around his neck.

Paul Johnson is the Lockheed Martin employee kidnapped in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Saturday. It's the same day another American, Kenneth Scroggs, was killed there.

The brunt of the four-and-a-half-minute tape shows a masked gunman. He identifies himself as Abdul-Aziz al-Muqrin, the military leader of the Saudi branch of al Qaeda. He takes credit for both the murder and the kidnapping.

The gunman demands the release of -- quote -- "all our prisoners in Saudi custody" and the withdrawal of all westerners from the Arabian peninsula. Otherwise, he says, the kidnappers will kill Johnson within 72 hours -- this Friday.

Johnson's son, sister and mother remain secluded at an undisclosed location in New Jersey. They have not publicly confirmed that the man on the tape is Johnson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: U.S. officials tell CNN that they're taking the warning seriously. Standing policy is to do everything they can to bring Americans home safely, but the U.S. and Saudi governments also make clear that policy is not to negotiate with terrorists.

BROWN: Deb, thank you. Deborah Feyerick tonight.

On now to the question of who gets Saddam Hussein -- who gets him and when. Two weeks from tonight, the United States will hand over sovereignty to Iraq's interim government. Whether it will also hand over Saddam and other high-level detainees became an open question yesterday. It was the subject of negotiations today.

Here again, our senior White House correspondent, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president won't promise to immediately surrender custody of Saddam Hussein when the new Iraqi government assumes sovereign powers two weeks from now.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want to make sure that he is secure. He's a killer. He's a thug. He needs to be brought to trial.

KING: Iraq's new leaders are already organizing a tribunal to hear allegations of mass murder, torture and corruption.

GHAZI AL-YAWAR, IRAQI INTERIM PRESIDENT: We have an excellent, credible judiciary system. We are different than him.

KING: The former Iraqi president has been in U.S. custody for six months, and the administration hopes to transfer him soon, believing a trial run by the new government could be a unifying force.

But one White House worry is that Saddam loyalists might try to spring their former leader. And the administration has a legal justification ready if it decides to wait because of security concerns.

DAN SENOR, CPA SPOKESMAN: We also do not have to hand him over until there's a cessation of active -- a cessation of active hostilities. The repatriation doesn't begin until after that. Hostilities, unfortunately, continue.

KING: A good deal of the violence, until recently, were blamed on militias loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr, and this Pentagon document two months ago said, "Kill or capture al Sadr" as the mission for coalition officials.

Mr. Bush now takes a much softer line.

BUSH: The interim Iraqi government will deal with al Sadr in the way they see fit. That's -- they're sovereign.

KING: The president held out his guest, Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai, as an example to Iraq as it prepares to take the first steps out of military occupation.

Saddam Hussein is hardly the only prisoner at issue as the transfer of sovereignty approaches. Hundreds of Iraqis are now in coalition custody. Some for alleged criminal acts, others because they are considered major security risks.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: The ability of Iraq to take over this responsibility is what will govern how quickly we can transfer prisoners and detainees to them.

KING: The president also stood by a fresh assertion by Vice President Cheney that Saddam Hussein had long-established ties to al Qaeda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now, most intelligence analysts say there's little evidence to back such a sweeping claim. But the president today cited the Baghdad-based operations of the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and that alleged e-mail from Zarqawi to the al Qaeda leadership that the United States intelligence intercepted. Mr. Bush says that's plenty of evidence for him.

Aaron, the president's critics rushed to say that e-mail was intercepted months after Saddam was toppled from power.

BROWN: I find this Saddam issue intriguing.

Is there some subtext here we're not getting, or is there actually a concern that somehow the Iraqi government will -- I don't know -- bail him out?

KING: U.S. officials here say they view this as a non-story for the most part. They say they think the Iraqi interim officials are saying this publicly to essentially try to make the case to assert to their own people that they are independent of the United States and they are making demands of the United States government. White House officials say in private conversations, a number of compromises have been discussed even giving the Iraqis legal custody, technical legal custody over Saddam Hussein so they would be in charge of what happens to him. And the interim government then would ask the United States to help of perhaps provide all the security.

So they believe this will be resolved quite peacefully. There is some concern that if there was a demand, turn him over on July 1, that there would be confusion in the early days about who's in charge of what, and that perhaps someone could spring Saddam loose. But the White House says it's pretty confident that won't happen.

BROWN: John, thank you. Good to see you tonight. Our senior White House correspondent, John King.

The security that both governments, the American government and the new Iraqi government desire, has yet to materialize, obviously. Today outside Baghdad's airport, snipers opened fire on a convoy carrying foreign contractors. According to the military, it was a carefully planned attack. Four people died. No word yet on their nationality.

Farther south, two explosions shut down a pair of oil pipelines. It happened on the Faw peninsula, along Iraq's Gulf coast. The sabotage effectively shuts off a majority of Iraqi oil exports for a week or more, which translates into as a much as a billion in lost revenue and already higher prices for oil around the world.

Beginning tomorrow, the commission looking into the attacks of 9/11 will hold a final two days of public hearings. The panel's full report is due out in a matter of weeks now. But the headline tonight concerns a theory laid out in a staff paper that may in the end change what we know about 9/11 and perhaps how al Qaeda operates.

In short, the attacks were planned for much earlier, perhaps may or June.

Again, CNN's David Ensor. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): The revelation that the 9/11 hijackers originally planned to attack in May or June of 2001 but postponed because the ring leader, Mohammed Atta, and his team were not ready came, U.S. officials say, from al Qaeda prisoners like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

PETER BERGEN, TERRORISM EXPERT: This was a flexible plot, and they obviously felt that they would take their time. They felt sufficiently comfortable that the plot hadn't been penetrated in any way, that they could take their time to really get it right by their lights. I mean, it's actually quite ballsy of them.

ENSOR: At past congressional hearings on 9/11, some witnesses appeared behind a screen. At Wednesday's hearings of the 9/11 commission, several CIA analysts will appear openly, but officials say they will not give their names.

Knowledgeable analysts in and out of government say there are many remaining questions for CIA and FBI witnesses. Such as, Why did Mohammed Atta fly to Portland, Maine, before flying to Boston to hijack a plane? Why did all the hijackers travel through Las Vegas? Is al Qaeda still looking for ways to attack nuclear facilities in the U.S.?

BERGEN: Is that still on the table for al Qaeda's leaders is an interesting question.

ENSOR: The hijackers concentrated in San Diego, New Jersey, Florida and northern Virginia. Was there a support network in place in those areas? And is it still there?

ENSOR: Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the commissioners still seek more information on who is to blame for the clues that were missed before 9/11, and how the next major terrorism plot can be stopped. The commission's report is expected in July.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Never again is a profoundly human utterly humane impulse. Messier, though, is the implementation.

The machinery works half in darkness and it is far from perfect. It spits out the Brandon Mayfields one day, the Zacarias Moussaouis next and many more who fall some the murky middle. Today in Virginia, three Muslim Americans accused of training for holy war drew harsh sentences. One of them got life.

Their story now and where it fits from CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hammad Abdur-Raheem and two others were sentenced to lengthy prison terms in a Virginia court, the last three members of an alleged Virginia jihadist group, the Justice Department winning convictions or guilty pleas against 9 out of 11 men. They were found guilty of providing material support to Lashkar e-Taiba, the Pakistani-based terror group.

Prosecutors have been very successful in prosecuting individuals using the material support for terrorism statute. In Portland, Oregon, the government won six guilty pleas against an alleged terror cell. In Lackawanna, near Buffalo, New York, six men who trained at terror camps pled guilty. And in Detroit, two terror-related convictions.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The most tangible measure of our success is found in a fact for which we are grateful to God and citizens of this country and law enforcement officials. We have not experienced a major terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

ARENA: But the government's successes are often met with skepticism.

NEAL KATAYAL, GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER: This administration, at least sometimes, has overclaimed its successes. And there's a deep question given the excessive secrecy of this administration, whether the successes that we do know about are really true successes or not.

ARENA: Take for example the allegations against Jose Padilla, designated an enemy combatant and currently in military custody. When he was arrested, Attorney General John Ashcroft definitively said that he was involved in a plot to set off a dirty bomb in the United States. Now prosecutors say he may have been here to blow up apartment buildings.

The Justice Department's newest terror case, just a day old, against an Ohio man allegedly involved in a plot to blow up a shopping mall is already being scrutinized for what critics call a lack of hard evidence. But government supporters argue law enforcement has a mandate to prevent terrorist acts before they happen, which often will not result in the same kind of evidence that's available after the fact.

VIET DINH, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: You don't have to wait until the brink of death and destruction in order to establish the evidence of criminal wrongdoing. Nor do we -- need we wait until after lives have been lost for us to pick up the pieces and prosecute for terrorism.

ARENA (on camera): Still, even some on the bench are having trouble adjusting. In the Virginia jihadist case, the judge called the mandatory sentences she imposed Draconian, and went on to say at times the law and justice need to be in tune.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Joining us now from Charlottesville, Virginia, is legal analyst and Slate senior editor Dahlia Lithwick. And we're always glad to see her. We're glad to see her tonight.

Is there a pattern to the source of people who are getting caught in this web? Are they high-level people? Mid-level people? Low-level people? Is there a pattern?

DAHLIA LITHWICK, SLATE MAGAZINE: There does seem to be a pattern.

It seems to be that these are overwhelming young men. They tend to be sort of hypermacho guys who have gone a little bit astray. They fall in love with the notion of being in al Qaeda. And then they do stupid things. They rent jihadist videos. They try to make their way to Afghanistan to lift up arms against the United States. Most of them don't make it there. Some of them, you know, even talk to other people about plots that they'd like to have.

But they all are sort of overwhelmingly like the kinds of young, disaffected 18-year-old guys who want to join the mob or who want to join a gang. They just happen to be of Arab-American decent at a moment where that is enough to get them into these horrible convictions and guilty pleas.

BROWN: The fact that they may be losers at some level doesn't make them less dangerous, though does it?

LITHWICK: Well, you know, that's an interesting problem. I mean, the whole definition of these sleeper cells makes it very attractive to say we need to sort of nail them now, you know, prophylactically before they do anything. But of course, you can use that sort of analysis for doing anything prophylactically for doing anything.

I mean, part of the problem really is right now they're just losers. Tomorrow, once they're activated, one their sleeper sell is activated, it's too late to do anything. And s you are on the horns of this dilemma.

BROWN: There are a number of cases that I think raise eyebrows. The Salt Lake City case, which was decided -- I think it was last week by a jury -- is one. Brandon Mayfield out in Oregon is another. There was an awful lot of mess in the Detroit prosecution.

LITHWICK: That's right.

I mean, the Detroit prosecution was called the Detroit Three, involved what, you know, was supposed to be the sort of harbinger of great things to come. It was two high-level conspiracy convictions. Turns out those convictions may not stand because the prosecutorial misconduct was so overwhelming, failure to turn over exculpatory documents, deportation of possibly exculpatory witnesses. The pressure put on prosecutors to nail these guys whatever it takes was such that the misconduct was terrible.

BROWN: Is there -- can we say that there is evidence that the government is overreaching and overcharging?

LITHWICK: There is evidence that the government is certainly overbilling.

The government, for whatever reason, likes to get up and have these elaborate press conferences and say, "We have disrupted yet another sleeper cell." Then you look at these sort of convictions or more likely plea agreements that come out later. These aren't sleeper cells. They don't look like sleeper cells. There's never a plan. There's never a plot. There's no smoking gun or fuse about to be lit.

What you have is a bunch of losers, like you said, who got caught up in fervor. They're not good guys. But are these the sort of a-list terrorists ring leaders? Are these the Mohammed Attas, the Zacarias Moussaouis? I don't think so.

BROWN: Dahlia, good to see you. Thank you. Dahlia Lithwick with us tonight.

LITHWICK: Thank you for having me.

BROWN: Thank you.

Ahead on the program tonight, abortion and politics, two things that have always seemed to be connected. This year, no different, though not quite the same either. And we'll get into that.

And some good times on the way for a city and the residents of Detroit. Well, maybe. Depends on the outcome of the ball game. But pressure on certain sports teams. Would a world championship be just what the city needs? Yes is the answer to that.

We'll explain that and more as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Religion and politics may not make for polite conversation, but they often produce lively debate, especially in an election year. Perhaps especially in this election year.

Polite or not, one question is central to both campaigns: how religious do Americans want their president to be? The true test will come in November, which hasn't stopped the pollsters from asking today.

Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The new poll by Time magazine finds that 59 percent of those who consider themselves very religious want George Bush re-elected. No wonder, speaking to the Southern Baptist convention today, he opposed what he referred to as partial- birth abortions and gay marriage, while praising the faithful.

BUSH: I understand as you do, that freedom is not America's gift to the world. Freedom is the Almighty God's gift to every man and woman who lives in this world. FOREMAN: But religion can be dangerous political ground. The president is being criticized by John Kerry for asking the Vatican to more openly support conservative issues.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's entirely and extraordinarily inappropriate. And I think it speaks for itself.

FOREMAN: While Kerry, a Catholic is under fire for supporting abortion rights, which his church opposes.

At the U.S. conference of bishops meeting in Denver, one of the topics is the relationship of Catholic politicians to their faith. Sixteen bishops have suggested elected Catholic leaders who do not oppose abortion should not take communion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simply because you are an elected official, you do not have a pass on the fundamental obligation that you have to protect innocent human life.

FOREMAN: Notre Dame theologian Father Richard McBrien disapproves of such tactics, saying they are a misuse of church doctrine. But he sees the political advantage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having Kerry on the ticket this year is a -- it's an answer to a prayer for the most militant in the pro-life movement. Because it puts the abortion issue back on the political radar screen.

FOREMAN (on camera): Religion could still play an important role in getting John Kerry elected. Specifically, the "time" poll found 69 percent of non-religious voters prefer the Democrat contender.

(voice-over): It is not at all clear how this will ultimately affect the election. But many voters appear to be giving both church and state a hard look.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Forty-four years ago, Americans wondered if John F. Kennedy was too catholic to be president. Today the question facing John Kerry, is he Catholic enough? The change says something interesting about the intersection of religious and politics, we think.

Ray Flynn is the former mayor of Boston, the former ambassador to the Vatican. He's now the national -- he is now the national president of Catholic Citizenship and he joins us from Boston.

In Philadelphia, we're joined by syndicated columnist E.J. Dionne. His new book is called "Stand Up and Fight Back."

It's good to see both of you.

Mr. Ambassador, let me start with you. You've been a politician, you've been out there. Who do you represent here: your constituents who may think something entirely different from the church, or the church's teachings?

RAY FLYNN, FMR. AMBASSADOR TO THE VATICAN: Well, Aaron, you're right. I've been around politics for a long time, 40 years.

I can tell you that the way I would hope that politicians would look at issues of moral importance but not beyond the basis of what is politically expedient, what is Democrat, what is republican, what is liberal or what is conservative, but also reflect on what they personally believe. What are their values? What are their fundamental values? What do they believe in about the essence and the dignity of every -- of ever human being? The poor, the needy, the elderly.

All those issues are a part of what the Catholic church is about. That's at least -- that's what I learned growing up in the streets of South Boston. Quite proudly to say that I am a Catholic who never had to compromise my political -- my moral values for political expediency, and I think people have a greater appreciation to somebody who does that rather than somebody who tries to straddle the fence on all these important issues.

BROWN: Is that what you think Senator Kerry, is doing is straddling the fence? It seems to me he's taking a position. He says, I personally don't believe in this, but I don't believe it's my place to deny others who feel differently.

FLYNN: Well, it's kind of an absurd response when you think about it.

It's not about his moral position. It's about a human-rights issue, protecting the right to life of Americans. I would assume would be the No. 1 issue that any one -- any president would invoke. It isn't a question about a choice or the rights of privacy it spells it right out in our documents establishing this country -- the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is fundamental.

BROWN: Let me go -- let me go to -- to E.J. here.

And maybe you have to educate me a little bit, but why is this issue -- why is the only issue that seems to get thrown into this mix, the church's position on abortion? Why isn't it also the church's position on capital punishment or on war or on poverty or a whole host of other things?

E.J. DIONNE, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Well, no, I think that's a good question, and a lot of Catholics, including a lot of bishops and priests are asking that very question.

Cardinal Bernardin -- the late Cardinal Bernardin used to talk about what he called a seamless garment. And he said that a commitment to life included not only the abortion issue, but also a commitment to social justice, a commitment to the poor, a concern for peace in the world and opposition to the death penalty.

And so I think the tricky part, for example, on denying a politician communion for his stand on abortion -- it raises a question are there other issues on which the church might do the same thing? It's why, by the way, I don't think the church as a whole is going to join those few bishops who are in favor of denying Kerry communion.

C.S. Lewis, the great Christian writer, I think had the best line on religion and politics a long time before John Kerry or George Bush came along. He said, "Most of us are not approaching the subject to find out what Christianity says. We are usually approaching this subject to find support for our particular political parties."

And I think the danger for Catholics on both sides of this issue is that if -- because they're Democrats, Democrats will say, let's give Kerry communion. And because the Republicans will say, No, let's not give Kerry communion. I don't think that's where the church wants to be.

BROWN: Let me -- we've got less than a minute. I want to get both of you in on this one.

Is this discussion in the end -- E.J., start this -- good for the church?

DIONNE: Well, I think it's good for the church if the discussion is about the broad set of issues including abortion, where the church is committed. I don't think it's good for the church if denying somebody communion becomes a political football in an election campaign. And, as I say, my hunch is most of the bishops feel that way, too.

BROWN: Mr. Ambassador, a last word on this. Thirty seconds.

FLYNN: I think it's -- I think it's very good for the United States Catholic bishops to show some moral leadership in this country. They're certainly not getting it -- we're not getting it, American citizens, in the political arena.

So you know, the Catholic church is the one moral voice that is speaking out on these issues, that even according to your polls, are somewhat unpopular. But nonetheless the church shouldn't be above what is politically correct, what is politically popular, what the editorial writers have to say. But what is truth, what is justice, what is important to the common good.

DIONNE: I agree with that.

BROWN: What a great way to end. We like when guests agree from time to time.

Good to see you both. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Thank you.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT still tonight, drive time in downtown Baghdad, maybe not quite the radio talk you're used to, but radio talk, nevertheless.

And later still tonight, the steamboat General Slocum and the night 100 years ago it caught fire.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Some day, we're going to go a week or more without one of those things. It's going to be a good day.

In Iraq, there are 15 days now, two weeks, until the handover of sovereignty. As we reported earlier, the surge in violence continues.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour is in Baghdad with more on another tough day for the Iraqis and the Americans as well.

Christiane, good to see you.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, indeed.

There was this tussle today in Iraq about who was going to get Saddam Hussein. And there are still discussions and negotiations, according to the Iraqis, about just when they will get him, the new interim government. But, to be honest, Saddam Hussein's fate or his custody right now is very low on the minds of most Iraqi people that we talk to and who we hear about. It is the violence that is a daily companion in this city and around this country that worries them most.

Today, there was yet another attack on an international convoy, with a number of people killed, investigations still ongoing into that, and a major disruption by insurgents on Iraqi pipelines dramatically rupturing and disrupting Iraq's oil flow outside and, therefore, also its imports, the vital money it needs to bring into this country.

Now,all of this impacts the individuals on a daily basis, violence in the streets, lack of utilities such as electricity and water because of these problems and because of the infrastructure that still hasn't been built up to the level that they expected. And people are telling their woes and seeking comfort and answers by talking to the most popular talk radio show host on Baghdad radio, as we listened in this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Amal Mudarris is about as close as you can get to the pulse of the Iraqi people.

"Good morning from your family at Studio 10," she says. "We are your link to your ministers."

One day after the latest car bomb that killed 13 and wounded scores more, security is again topic No. 1 for her listeners. A police man calls in from Baghdad with a torrent of complaints. "We need more police cars. Our flak jackets are useless. And we have only AK-47s and pistols against an enemy who uses grenades."

Another caller from Ramadi in the infamous Sunni Triangle sounds frantic. "We need checkpoints and car searches," he says. "It would make people feel safer. Right now, there's no deterrents." Amal and her co-anchor, Allah Musen (ph), field these comments and complaints for 90 minutes every morning.

Amal has been a broadcaster for 42 years. She tells us how she was harassed by intelligence agents after her sister-in-law was caught insulting Saddam Hussein several years ago. She was then executed. So you'd expect Amal to be happy about today's Iraq. Instead, after thanking the United States for removing Saddam, she dissolves into tears.

"Iraqis just want to live in peace, especially we women," she says. "We fear for our children. When my son leaves the house every morning, I don't know if he'll come home again." Like much in Iraq, this station has also been targeted.

(on camera): Terrorists and insurgents have so far killed eight of the network's employees and wounded more than 15 in ambushes and execution-style shootings. So a private U.S. contractor is trying to train at least 1,000 Iraqi security agents for its 31 sites around the country.

(voice-over): If violence is the callers' main concern, then jobs and electricity are a close second. Umbaka (ph), a mother in Baghdad, calls almost in tears, saying she fears for the life of her 6-month-old child because of major power and water cuts. The price of generators has skyrocketed and she can't afford one.

Amal's listeners say just hearing her voice makes them feel better. But, by the end of each morning, she is overwhelmed.

"Iraq is now living in a fog," she says. "We don't know what will happen next. We just hear words and promises. But so far, those promises have not materialized."

"We hope for July 1, when a new government takes over. They say Iraqis are patient people," she tells her listeners. "We've been patient all this time. God willing, things will get better."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So, many of the Iraqis we do speak to, including Amal, say that they do hope that June 30 will mark a turning point. But they're not quite sure how. They expect not to see American troops on the street. But that, we know, is not necessarily going to be the case, because American troops still will be around maintaining the bulk of security -- Aaron.

BROWN: Does anybody call in and praise the Americans?

AMANPOUR: No. To be honest, we sat there for about an hour listening to that show, and it was more -- it wasn't about Americans, the show. It was about their daily lives. And there just was a torrent of complaints.

And we were quite surprised. We thought perhaps there would be more of a mix. But this show was particularly about being their link with their own authorities. And they were talking to specific ministers, about six different ministers. And it was all about daily concerns.

BROWN: Christiane, thank you. It's good to see you. And we'll see you again soon. Thank you, Christiane Amanpour, who is back in Baghdad.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, a little hope in a city that could use it these days and why all of Detroit is holding its collective breath tonight.

And later still, with a slam dunk of his own, the rooster brings morning papers by where else but NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Nineteen sixty-eight was a bad year. In that summer, Detroit was on the edge again of what many feared would be the worst race rioting in the country's history.

There was, it seemed, only one thing that kept black Detroit and white Detroit together. And that was baseball. And it is said -- and we believe it's true -- that had it not been for the Tigers, the city would have been lost. But the '68 Tigers were magic, their every move followed in both rich and poor parts of town, a reason to feel good in a summer of feeling bad.

Now, 2004 is not 1968 in Detroit, not nearly, but there are parallels. Only, this time, it isn't the Tigers, but the Pistons who have given a much maligned town something to feel good about.

Here's CNN's Chris Lawrence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Hill's Barber Shop (ph) in Detroit, they cut hair and cut up about any and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But before the series started, they didn't pick the Pistons to win, none of them.

LAWRENCE: The city's pulse is not in the skyscrapers downtown, but in barbers' chairs like this one.

DIERRE NORFLEET, PISTONS FAN. The Pistons are definitely an inspiration.

LAWRENCE: Barber Dierre Norfleet says the Pistons earn his respect because they grind it out against more talented teams.

NORFLEET: Oh, yes, it's a blue-collar style in a blue-collar town.

LAWRENCE: Norfleet says it is easy to identify with the team's defense in a town defensive about its image.

NORFLEET: We're going to defend this town and the people -- the perception that people have against this town.

LAWRENCE: Detroit's critics have made it the butt of every bad joke, creating a sense that its better days are long gone.

REV. V. LONNIE PEEK, GREATER CHRIST BAPTIST CHURCH: People are counting Detroit out a lot. Detroit keeps coming back.

LAWRENCE: Over the past 30 years, the Reverend Lonnie Peek has seen the city down and nearly out. Right now, Detroiters are suffering through 12 percent unemployment. And some neighborhoods have no jobs, no homes, no hope.

The odds are against a turnaround. But the Reverend Peek says nobody gave the Pistons a chance either.

PEEK: We might not know the person who is touched by the spirit of the Pistons who win who will be laying there on the couch saying, dang, you know what? Let me get off of my can and let me start putting some energy into solving the problem, as opposed to just looking at the problem.

LAWRENCE: Some Detroiters say those problems don't look so big anymore now that they've got some help in defending the city.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: And fans tell us even a Pistons championship won't rebuild a home or create a new job. They also say, sometimes, it's enough just to be called a winner -- Aaron.

BROWN: Chris, thank you. We wish them good luck.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the 100-year anniversary of a disaster you probably never heard of, a disaster that was, until 9/11, the worst that New York City had ever seen.

And morning papers are coming up, too.

A break first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: One hundred years ago today, New Yorkers watched a disaster unfold as they looked on, unable to help. Hundreds died. The city went numb. Blame and finger-pointing followed. But the details, large and small, so vivid at the time, did not take long to fade.

Tonight, NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen takes a look again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Wednesday morning June 15, 1904. To the sounds of a German band, more than 1,000 members of Saint Mark's Lutheran parish, most all of them German immigrant families, board the steamboat General Slocum in Lower Manhattan for a church outing up the East River. Disaster strikes just minutes after castoff.

EDWARD O'DONNELL, AUTHOR, "SHIP ABLAZE": It's about 10 minutes into the trip up the East River that a little boy runs up to one of the deck hands and says, Mister, there's smoke coming up a stairwell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "MANHATTAN MELODRAMA")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Fire!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NISSEN: Survivors' accounts of what happened next were used to recreate the scene in a 1934 film, "Manhattan Melodrama." A fire had started -- no one knows how -- in a storage room below decks. As smoke and panic rose, deck hands, who had never done fire drills, tried to contain the flames, which quickly roared through the wooden steamboat.

O'DONNELL: They formed a rough fire brigade, having never done it before, pulled down some musty old hoses from a rack, attached them to a stand pip, turned on the water and the hoses burst. They were completely rotten.

NISSEN: As investigators later found, so were the onboard life preservers, which dated back to 1891.

O'DONNELL: Thirteen years of son and salt had eroded them. And the cork blocks inside of them had essentially become dust. So people found these life preservers, dutifully put them on, jumped over the railings and sank like stones because the life preservers were essentially bags of dirt.

NISSEN: There are no photographs of the General Slocum aflame before the captain finally beached it. But drawings done by witnesses ashore are remarkably similar.

O'DONNELL: They all show huge flames shooting out of the side and up over the top of the ship and people falling, cascading over the sides.

NISSEN: Some were saved from the churning river water by rescuers, but not many. Scores of the dead were pulled in from the water, some burned, some trampled, most drowned. The first extras published that afternoon estimated the dead at about 300.

O'DONNELL: When the tide turned in the middle of the afternoon, more and more bodies began to come up. By about 4:00 or 5:00, the extras are now saying, the Slocum total may exceed 1,000. NISSEN: It did. Of the 1,300 who boarded the General Slocum, 1,021 died, almost 800 of them women and children. It was the worst tragedy in New York City history until September 11.

O'DONNELL: Funerals began as early as the day after the fire. The big day was Saturday, June 18, 1904, black Saturday. Thousands of New Yorkers came and lined the sidewalks and just watched hearse after hearse after hearse.

NISSEN: Some 600 were buried at the All Faiths Lutheran Cemetery in Queens, including the bodies of the 61 unknowns interred under a memorial to the Slocum dead.

O'DONNELL: They were just too badly burned or disfigured by the fire. They were discovered in the water weeks later.

NISSEN: There were speedy hearings, federal investigation, trials, focusing on the corner-cutting owner of the steamboat Slocum and the inspector who had vouched for the Slocum's safety equipment just five weeks before the tragedy. In the end, only the captain was convicted of negligence and manslaughter and sent to prison. The Slocum was soon forgotten.

O'DONNELL: If you had asked anyone in the days after the fire, would anybody ever forget this, nobody would have thought it possible that something so enormous could be forgotten. Yet, you find, within a decade, it's already slipping away.

NISSEN: After World War I, sympathy for anyone German plummeted. Other tragedies, the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire, the sinking of the Titanic, overshadowed the Slocum. Life and New Yorkers moved on.

O'DONNELL: New York is a city that has only one gear. And that's forward, and only one mind-set, which is on the future.

NISSEN: Not without reminder on the losses of a century past.

Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. And I'm talking real fast because there's so much to do and so little time to do it in.

"International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times." Down here, OK? I like this a lot. "Vatican Downsizes the Inquisition," the Vatican saying today, there really weren't that many witches and that many heretics killed or tortured during the Inquisition. So I'm glad we set the record straight. I just love that story. I mean, it resonates today, doesn't it? "The Christian Science Monitor" leads with the economy. "Inflation a Top Threat to the Economy." Consumer prices have risen 5.5 percent over the past -- for the last three months all across the economy. Actually, we've got a story on milk we've been trying to do. The price of milk has gone nuts of late.

"The Washington Times." Among the stories on its front page, this is a good story, I think. "Southern Baptists Leave Alliance, Cite Churches Open to Gays" as one of the reasons. Generally, I think they felt the overall alliance has gone too liberal for them.

How we doing on time? Thirty? Oh, my goodness.

Down here, this is "The Press of Atlantic City," New Jersey. I like this sort of story. They localize the war. "Quiet Reunion For Soldier On Family Leave in the Cape," or "In Cape." I assume that's Cape May. I'm not absolutely positive of that. That's a good story.

Let's just do the weather in Chicago. You got that little chime thing?

(CHIMES)

BROWN: Thank you. The weather tomorrow -- I don't know what else it's called -- a chime thing, isn't it? "Mischievous" is the weather in Chicago. It sounds like they might get some rain there.

And are we out of time? OK, let's do this one then, just a final. If you've been wondering what happened to Sklenner's (ph) buses, they're in service, that according to the "Burt County Plaindealer" out there in Burt County, Nebraska. We love this paper and we love those folks. And we would probably like Mr. Sklenner, but we don't know him.

We'll wrap it up for the day in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Let me put this simply. We'll see you tomorrow at 10:00.

Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired June 15, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN HOST: Good evening again, everyone.
To use a cliche I actually hate, this is one of those good news- bad news pages.

The bad news first -- this being the news business, did you really expect me to start otherwise? The Coalition Provisional Authority -- that would be the Americans running Iraq -- commissioned a poll of Iraqis. AP obtained a copy, and it's not especially surprising. The CPA would have preferred to keep the results to itself.

In a nutshell, Iraqis neither like us much or trust us much. Fifty-five percent said they'd feel safer if we were gone. That's nearly twice the number it was in January. Just 10 percent of Iraqis said they support the coalition, down from 47 percent in January. Nearly half said they felt unsafe when they left their homes, nearly double the number from the first of the year. Fifty-four percent of Iraqis said they believed all Americans -- all American soldiers in Iraq behaved the way the prison guards at Abu Ghraib behaved. Eight- one percent said they had an improved opinion of Muqtada al-Sadr, the young cleric who has caused the coalition so much trouble and considerable death in the last few months.

So now the good news. Only 2 percent thought Sadr should be president of Iraq. Saddam actually did one point better than that. And two-thirds believed that things will get better after the handover in two weeks. A hundred and forty thousand troops can only hope they're right.

We begin "The Whip" tonight with an American hostage and a new piece of videotape. CNN's Deborah Feyerick is covering Paul Johnson's story.

So Deb, start us off with a headline.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a gunman, a captive, a threat and a Friday deadline, all captured in one chilling video -- Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

On to the back-and-forth over when Iraq's new government will get its hands on the former dictator. For that we go to our senior White House correspondent, John King. John, a headline.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, by their public comments there appears to be a disagreement between the White House and the new interim Iraqi government over where that new government will get custody of Saddam Hussein. But privately, behind the scenes, officials here at the White House tell us this will all be worked out soon.

BROWN: John, thank you.

Next to the work of the 9/11 commission, and a stunning reappraisal of the timetable for the attacks. David Ensor reported the story today.

So David, a headline.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the revelation that the 9/11 hijackers originally planned to attack in May or June rather than September shows how flexible and confident al Qaeda was. At hearings tomorrow, the 9/11 commission wants to probe further into what mistakes may have been made, and how the next major attack can be stopped -- Aaron.

BROWN: And finally to Baghdad and a voice of reason. Well, two actually. Christiane Amanpour is ours.

Christiane, a headline.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, those disgruntled Iraqis you mentioned in the poll, many of them are pouring their heart out every morning to Iraq's most beloved talk-radio show host. We'll have that report.

BROWN: Christiane, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight, keeping track of the Justice Department's track record on terrorism and the courts. Kelli Arena follows up on many of the high-profile terror arrests made by the U.S. government since 9/11.

Plus the worst thing ever to happen to New York City before 9/11. One hundred years ago today, a fire broke out on board the steamboat General Slocum. The rest is tragic history. Nissen takes us back tonight.

And later, as always, the perfect ending we think -- OK, perfect might be a stretch. But we'll have "Morning Papers."

All that and more to come in the hour ahead. We begin tonight with a man from New Jersey who went to Saudi Arabia to do a job, and now finds himself at the epicenter of a holy war. Al Qaeda has made its no secret of its desire to drive Westerners from the Arabian peninsula and ultimately topple the Saudi royal family. Toward that end so far, we've seen bombings and shootings and abductions. And tonight, one of the true obscenities of the new normal: it came with a deadline.

Here again, CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK (voice-over): He is blindfolded. His shirt torn, revealing a prominent tattoo on his left arm. In speech that is sometimes slurred, the captive says he is missing American Paul Marshall Johnson.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul Marshall Johnson Jr. I work on Apache helicopters.

FEYERICK: The captive appears for about 25 seconds. The video is heavily edited, the kidnapper selecting only certain statements. At one point for a few seconds, the man on the tape is seen with a bandage wrapped around his neck.

Paul Johnson is the Lockheed Martin employee kidnapped in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, Saturday. It's the same day another American, Kenneth Scroggs, was killed there.

The brunt of the four-and-a-half-minute tape shows a masked gunman. He identifies himself as Abdul-Aziz al-Muqrin, the military leader of the Saudi branch of al Qaeda. He takes credit for both the murder and the kidnapping.

The gunman demands the release of -- quote -- "all our prisoners in Saudi custody" and the withdrawal of all westerners from the Arabian peninsula. Otherwise, he says, the kidnappers will kill Johnson within 72 hours -- this Friday.

Johnson's son, sister and mother remain secluded at an undisclosed location in New Jersey. They have not publicly confirmed that the man on the tape is Johnson.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: U.S. officials tell CNN that they're taking the warning seriously. Standing policy is to do everything they can to bring Americans home safely, but the U.S. and Saudi governments also make clear that policy is not to negotiate with terrorists.

BROWN: Deb, thank you. Deborah Feyerick tonight.

On now to the question of who gets Saddam Hussein -- who gets him and when. Two weeks from tonight, the United States will hand over sovereignty to Iraq's interim government. Whether it will also hand over Saddam and other high-level detainees became an open question yesterday. It was the subject of negotiations today.

Here again, our senior White House correspondent, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president won't promise to immediately surrender custody of Saddam Hussein when the new Iraqi government assumes sovereign powers two weeks from now.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We want to make sure that he is secure. He's a killer. He's a thug. He needs to be brought to trial.

KING: Iraq's new leaders are already organizing a tribunal to hear allegations of mass murder, torture and corruption.

GHAZI AL-YAWAR, IRAQI INTERIM PRESIDENT: We have an excellent, credible judiciary system. We are different than him.

KING: The former Iraqi president has been in U.S. custody for six months, and the administration hopes to transfer him soon, believing a trial run by the new government could be a unifying force.

But one White House worry is that Saddam loyalists might try to spring their former leader. And the administration has a legal justification ready if it decides to wait because of security concerns.

DAN SENOR, CPA SPOKESMAN: We also do not have to hand him over until there's a cessation of active -- a cessation of active hostilities. The repatriation doesn't begin until after that. Hostilities, unfortunately, continue.

KING: A good deal of the violence, until recently, were blamed on militias loyal to Shiite cleric Muqtada al Sadr, and this Pentagon document two months ago said, "Kill or capture al Sadr" as the mission for coalition officials.

Mr. Bush now takes a much softer line.

BUSH: The interim Iraqi government will deal with al Sadr in the way they see fit. That's -- they're sovereign.

KING: The president held out his guest, Afghanistan's President Hamid Karzai, as an example to Iraq as it prepares to take the first steps out of military occupation.

Saddam Hussein is hardly the only prisoner at issue as the transfer of sovereignty approaches. Hundreds of Iraqis are now in coalition custody. Some for alleged criminal acts, others because they are considered major security risks.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: The ability of Iraq to take over this responsibility is what will govern how quickly we can transfer prisoners and detainees to them.

KING: The president also stood by a fresh assertion by Vice President Cheney that Saddam Hussein had long-established ties to al Qaeda.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now, most intelligence analysts say there's little evidence to back such a sweeping claim. But the president today cited the Baghdad-based operations of the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and that alleged e-mail from Zarqawi to the al Qaeda leadership that the United States intelligence intercepted. Mr. Bush says that's plenty of evidence for him.

Aaron, the president's critics rushed to say that e-mail was intercepted months after Saddam was toppled from power.

BROWN: I find this Saddam issue intriguing.

Is there some subtext here we're not getting, or is there actually a concern that somehow the Iraqi government will -- I don't know -- bail him out?

KING: U.S. officials here say they view this as a non-story for the most part. They say they think the Iraqi interim officials are saying this publicly to essentially try to make the case to assert to their own people that they are independent of the United States and they are making demands of the United States government. White House officials say in private conversations, a number of compromises have been discussed even giving the Iraqis legal custody, technical legal custody over Saddam Hussein so they would be in charge of what happens to him. And the interim government then would ask the United States to help of perhaps provide all the security.

So they believe this will be resolved quite peacefully. There is some concern that if there was a demand, turn him over on July 1, that there would be confusion in the early days about who's in charge of what, and that perhaps someone could spring Saddam loose. But the White House says it's pretty confident that won't happen.

BROWN: John, thank you. Good to see you tonight. Our senior White House correspondent, John King.

The security that both governments, the American government and the new Iraqi government desire, has yet to materialize, obviously. Today outside Baghdad's airport, snipers opened fire on a convoy carrying foreign contractors. According to the military, it was a carefully planned attack. Four people died. No word yet on their nationality.

Farther south, two explosions shut down a pair of oil pipelines. It happened on the Faw peninsula, along Iraq's Gulf coast. The sabotage effectively shuts off a majority of Iraqi oil exports for a week or more, which translates into as a much as a billion in lost revenue and already higher prices for oil around the world.

Beginning tomorrow, the commission looking into the attacks of 9/11 will hold a final two days of public hearings. The panel's full report is due out in a matter of weeks now. But the headline tonight concerns a theory laid out in a staff paper that may in the end change what we know about 9/11 and perhaps how al Qaeda operates.

In short, the attacks were planned for much earlier, perhaps may or June.

Again, CNN's David Ensor. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): The revelation that the 9/11 hijackers originally planned to attack in May or June of 2001 but postponed because the ring leader, Mohammed Atta, and his team were not ready came, U.S. officials say, from al Qaeda prisoners like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.

PETER BERGEN, TERRORISM EXPERT: This was a flexible plot, and they obviously felt that they would take their time. They felt sufficiently comfortable that the plot hadn't been penetrated in any way, that they could take their time to really get it right by their lights. I mean, it's actually quite ballsy of them.

ENSOR: At past congressional hearings on 9/11, some witnesses appeared behind a screen. At Wednesday's hearings of the 9/11 commission, several CIA analysts will appear openly, but officials say they will not give their names.

Knowledgeable analysts in and out of government say there are many remaining questions for CIA and FBI witnesses. Such as, Why did Mohammed Atta fly to Portland, Maine, before flying to Boston to hijack a plane? Why did all the hijackers travel through Las Vegas? Is al Qaeda still looking for ways to attack nuclear facilities in the U.S.?

BERGEN: Is that still on the table for al Qaeda's leaders is an interesting question.

ENSOR: The hijackers concentrated in San Diego, New Jersey, Florida and northern Virginia. Was there a support network in place in those areas? And is it still there?

ENSOR: Finally, and perhaps most importantly, the commissioners still seek more information on who is to blame for the clues that were missed before 9/11, and how the next major terrorism plot can be stopped. The commission's report is expected in July.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Never again is a profoundly human utterly humane impulse. Messier, though, is the implementation.

The machinery works half in darkness and it is far from perfect. It spits out the Brandon Mayfields one day, the Zacarias Moussaouis next and many more who fall some the murky middle. Today in Virginia, three Muslim Americans accused of training for holy war drew harsh sentences. One of them got life.

Their story now and where it fits from CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Hammad Abdur-Raheem and two others were sentenced to lengthy prison terms in a Virginia court, the last three members of an alleged Virginia jihadist group, the Justice Department winning convictions or guilty pleas against 9 out of 11 men. They were found guilty of providing material support to Lashkar e-Taiba, the Pakistani-based terror group.

Prosecutors have been very successful in prosecuting individuals using the material support for terrorism statute. In Portland, Oregon, the government won six guilty pleas against an alleged terror cell. In Lackawanna, near Buffalo, New York, six men who trained at terror camps pled guilty. And in Detroit, two terror-related convictions.

JOHN ASHCROFT, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The most tangible measure of our success is found in a fact for which we are grateful to God and citizens of this country and law enforcement officials. We have not experienced a major terrorist attack on U.S. soil.

ARENA: But the government's successes are often met with skepticism.

NEAL KATAYAL, GEORGETOWN LAW CENTER: This administration, at least sometimes, has overclaimed its successes. And there's a deep question given the excessive secrecy of this administration, whether the successes that we do know about are really true successes or not.

ARENA: Take for example the allegations against Jose Padilla, designated an enemy combatant and currently in military custody. When he was arrested, Attorney General John Ashcroft definitively said that he was involved in a plot to set off a dirty bomb in the United States. Now prosecutors say he may have been here to blow up apartment buildings.

The Justice Department's newest terror case, just a day old, against an Ohio man allegedly involved in a plot to blow up a shopping mall is already being scrutinized for what critics call a lack of hard evidence. But government supporters argue law enforcement has a mandate to prevent terrorist acts before they happen, which often will not result in the same kind of evidence that's available after the fact.

VIET DINH, ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL: You don't have to wait until the brink of death and destruction in order to establish the evidence of criminal wrongdoing. Nor do we -- need we wait until after lives have been lost for us to pick up the pieces and prosecute for terrorism.

ARENA (on camera): Still, even some on the bench are having trouble adjusting. In the Virginia jihadist case, the judge called the mandatory sentences she imposed Draconian, and went on to say at times the law and justice need to be in tune.

Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Joining us now from Charlottesville, Virginia, is legal analyst and Slate senior editor Dahlia Lithwick. And we're always glad to see her. We're glad to see her tonight.

Is there a pattern to the source of people who are getting caught in this web? Are they high-level people? Mid-level people? Low-level people? Is there a pattern?

DAHLIA LITHWICK, SLATE MAGAZINE: There does seem to be a pattern.

It seems to be that these are overwhelming young men. They tend to be sort of hypermacho guys who have gone a little bit astray. They fall in love with the notion of being in al Qaeda. And then they do stupid things. They rent jihadist videos. They try to make their way to Afghanistan to lift up arms against the United States. Most of them don't make it there. Some of them, you know, even talk to other people about plots that they'd like to have.

But they all are sort of overwhelmingly like the kinds of young, disaffected 18-year-old guys who want to join the mob or who want to join a gang. They just happen to be of Arab-American decent at a moment where that is enough to get them into these horrible convictions and guilty pleas.

BROWN: The fact that they may be losers at some level doesn't make them less dangerous, though does it?

LITHWICK: Well, you know, that's an interesting problem. I mean, the whole definition of these sleeper cells makes it very attractive to say we need to sort of nail them now, you know, prophylactically before they do anything. But of course, you can use that sort of analysis for doing anything prophylactically for doing anything.

I mean, part of the problem really is right now they're just losers. Tomorrow, once they're activated, one their sleeper sell is activated, it's too late to do anything. And s you are on the horns of this dilemma.

BROWN: There are a number of cases that I think raise eyebrows. The Salt Lake City case, which was decided -- I think it was last week by a jury -- is one. Brandon Mayfield out in Oregon is another. There was an awful lot of mess in the Detroit prosecution.

LITHWICK: That's right.

I mean, the Detroit prosecution was called the Detroit Three, involved what, you know, was supposed to be the sort of harbinger of great things to come. It was two high-level conspiracy convictions. Turns out those convictions may not stand because the prosecutorial misconduct was so overwhelming, failure to turn over exculpatory documents, deportation of possibly exculpatory witnesses. The pressure put on prosecutors to nail these guys whatever it takes was such that the misconduct was terrible.

BROWN: Is there -- can we say that there is evidence that the government is overreaching and overcharging?

LITHWICK: There is evidence that the government is certainly overbilling.

The government, for whatever reason, likes to get up and have these elaborate press conferences and say, "We have disrupted yet another sleeper cell." Then you look at these sort of convictions or more likely plea agreements that come out later. These aren't sleeper cells. They don't look like sleeper cells. There's never a plan. There's never a plot. There's no smoking gun or fuse about to be lit.

What you have is a bunch of losers, like you said, who got caught up in fervor. They're not good guys. But are these the sort of a-list terrorists ring leaders? Are these the Mohammed Attas, the Zacarias Moussaouis? I don't think so.

BROWN: Dahlia, good to see you. Thank you. Dahlia Lithwick with us tonight.

LITHWICK: Thank you for having me.

BROWN: Thank you.

Ahead on the program tonight, abortion and politics, two things that have always seemed to be connected. This year, no different, though not quite the same either. And we'll get into that.

And some good times on the way for a city and the residents of Detroit. Well, maybe. Depends on the outcome of the ball game. But pressure on certain sports teams. Would a world championship be just what the city needs? Yes is the answer to that.

We'll explain that and more as NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Religion and politics may not make for polite conversation, but they often produce lively debate, especially in an election year. Perhaps especially in this election year.

Polite or not, one question is central to both campaigns: how religious do Americans want their president to be? The true test will come in November, which hasn't stopped the pollsters from asking today.

Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: The new poll by Time magazine finds that 59 percent of those who consider themselves very religious want George Bush re-elected. No wonder, speaking to the Southern Baptist convention today, he opposed what he referred to as partial- birth abortions and gay marriage, while praising the faithful.

BUSH: I understand as you do, that freedom is not America's gift to the world. Freedom is the Almighty God's gift to every man and woman who lives in this world. FOREMAN: But religion can be dangerous political ground. The president is being criticized by John Kerry for asking the Vatican to more openly support conservative issues.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That's entirely and extraordinarily inappropriate. And I think it speaks for itself.

FOREMAN: While Kerry, a Catholic is under fire for supporting abortion rights, which his church opposes.

At the U.S. conference of bishops meeting in Denver, one of the topics is the relationship of Catholic politicians to their faith. Sixteen bishops have suggested elected Catholic leaders who do not oppose abortion should not take communion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Simply because you are an elected official, you do not have a pass on the fundamental obligation that you have to protect innocent human life.

FOREMAN: Notre Dame theologian Father Richard McBrien disapproves of such tactics, saying they are a misuse of church doctrine. But he sees the political advantage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Having Kerry on the ticket this year is a -- it's an answer to a prayer for the most militant in the pro-life movement. Because it puts the abortion issue back on the political radar screen.

FOREMAN (on camera): Religion could still play an important role in getting John Kerry elected. Specifically, the "time" poll found 69 percent of non-religious voters prefer the Democrat contender.

(voice-over): It is not at all clear how this will ultimately affect the election. But many voters appear to be giving both church and state a hard look.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Forty-four years ago, Americans wondered if John F. Kennedy was too catholic to be president. Today the question facing John Kerry, is he Catholic enough? The change says something interesting about the intersection of religious and politics, we think.

Ray Flynn is the former mayor of Boston, the former ambassador to the Vatican. He's now the national -- he is now the national president of Catholic Citizenship and he joins us from Boston.

In Philadelphia, we're joined by syndicated columnist E.J. Dionne. His new book is called "Stand Up and Fight Back."

It's good to see both of you.

Mr. Ambassador, let me start with you. You've been a politician, you've been out there. Who do you represent here: your constituents who may think something entirely different from the church, or the church's teachings?

RAY FLYNN, FMR. AMBASSADOR TO THE VATICAN: Well, Aaron, you're right. I've been around politics for a long time, 40 years.

I can tell you that the way I would hope that politicians would look at issues of moral importance but not beyond the basis of what is politically expedient, what is Democrat, what is republican, what is liberal or what is conservative, but also reflect on what they personally believe. What are their values? What are their fundamental values? What do they believe in about the essence and the dignity of every -- of ever human being? The poor, the needy, the elderly.

All those issues are a part of what the Catholic church is about. That's at least -- that's what I learned growing up in the streets of South Boston. Quite proudly to say that I am a Catholic who never had to compromise my political -- my moral values for political expediency, and I think people have a greater appreciation to somebody who does that rather than somebody who tries to straddle the fence on all these important issues.

BROWN: Is that what you think Senator Kerry, is doing is straddling the fence? It seems to me he's taking a position. He says, I personally don't believe in this, but I don't believe it's my place to deny others who feel differently.

FLYNN: Well, it's kind of an absurd response when you think about it.

It's not about his moral position. It's about a human-rights issue, protecting the right to life of Americans. I would assume would be the No. 1 issue that any one -- any president would invoke. It isn't a question about a choice or the rights of privacy it spells it right out in our documents establishing this country -- the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is fundamental.

BROWN: Let me go -- let me go to -- to E.J. here.

And maybe you have to educate me a little bit, but why is this issue -- why is the only issue that seems to get thrown into this mix, the church's position on abortion? Why isn't it also the church's position on capital punishment or on war or on poverty or a whole host of other things?

E.J. DIONNE, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Well, no, I think that's a good question, and a lot of Catholics, including a lot of bishops and priests are asking that very question.

Cardinal Bernardin -- the late Cardinal Bernardin used to talk about what he called a seamless garment. And he said that a commitment to life included not only the abortion issue, but also a commitment to social justice, a commitment to the poor, a concern for peace in the world and opposition to the death penalty.

And so I think the tricky part, for example, on denying a politician communion for his stand on abortion -- it raises a question are there other issues on which the church might do the same thing? It's why, by the way, I don't think the church as a whole is going to join those few bishops who are in favor of denying Kerry communion.

C.S. Lewis, the great Christian writer, I think had the best line on religion and politics a long time before John Kerry or George Bush came along. He said, "Most of us are not approaching the subject to find out what Christianity says. We are usually approaching this subject to find support for our particular political parties."

And I think the danger for Catholics on both sides of this issue is that if -- because they're Democrats, Democrats will say, let's give Kerry communion. And because the Republicans will say, No, let's not give Kerry communion. I don't think that's where the church wants to be.

BROWN: Let me -- we've got less than a minute. I want to get both of you in on this one.

Is this discussion in the end -- E.J., start this -- good for the church?

DIONNE: Well, I think it's good for the church if the discussion is about the broad set of issues including abortion, where the church is committed. I don't think it's good for the church if denying somebody communion becomes a political football in an election campaign. And, as I say, my hunch is most of the bishops feel that way, too.

BROWN: Mr. Ambassador, a last word on this. Thirty seconds.

FLYNN: I think it's -- I think it's very good for the United States Catholic bishops to show some moral leadership in this country. They're certainly not getting it -- we're not getting it, American citizens, in the political arena.

So you know, the Catholic church is the one moral voice that is speaking out on these issues, that even according to your polls, are somewhat unpopular. But nonetheless the church shouldn't be above what is politically correct, what is politically popular, what the editorial writers have to say. But what is truth, what is justice, what is important to the common good.

DIONNE: I agree with that.

BROWN: What a great way to end. We like when guests agree from time to time.

Good to see you both. Thank you.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Thank you.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT still tonight, drive time in downtown Baghdad, maybe not quite the radio talk you're used to, but radio talk, nevertheless.

And later still tonight, the steamboat General Slocum and the night 100 years ago it caught fire.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Some day, we're going to go a week or more without one of those things. It's going to be a good day.

In Iraq, there are 15 days now, two weeks, until the handover of sovereignty. As we reported earlier, the surge in violence continues.

CNN's Christiane Amanpour is in Baghdad with more on another tough day for the Iraqis and the Americans as well.

Christiane, good to see you.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, indeed.

There was this tussle today in Iraq about who was going to get Saddam Hussein. And there are still discussions and negotiations, according to the Iraqis, about just when they will get him, the new interim government. But, to be honest, Saddam Hussein's fate or his custody right now is very low on the minds of most Iraqi people that we talk to and who we hear about. It is the violence that is a daily companion in this city and around this country that worries them most.

Today, there was yet another attack on an international convoy, with a number of people killed, investigations still ongoing into that, and a major disruption by insurgents on Iraqi pipelines dramatically rupturing and disrupting Iraq's oil flow outside and, therefore, also its imports, the vital money it needs to bring into this country.

Now,all of this impacts the individuals on a daily basis, violence in the streets, lack of utilities such as electricity and water because of these problems and because of the infrastructure that still hasn't been built up to the level that they expected. And people are telling their woes and seeking comfort and answers by talking to the most popular talk radio show host on Baghdad radio, as we listened in this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Amal Mudarris is about as close as you can get to the pulse of the Iraqi people.

"Good morning from your family at Studio 10," she says. "We are your link to your ministers."

One day after the latest car bomb that killed 13 and wounded scores more, security is again topic No. 1 for her listeners. A police man calls in from Baghdad with a torrent of complaints. "We need more police cars. Our flak jackets are useless. And we have only AK-47s and pistols against an enemy who uses grenades."

Another caller from Ramadi in the infamous Sunni Triangle sounds frantic. "We need checkpoints and car searches," he says. "It would make people feel safer. Right now, there's no deterrents." Amal and her co-anchor, Allah Musen (ph), field these comments and complaints for 90 minutes every morning.

Amal has been a broadcaster for 42 years. She tells us how she was harassed by intelligence agents after her sister-in-law was caught insulting Saddam Hussein several years ago. She was then executed. So you'd expect Amal to be happy about today's Iraq. Instead, after thanking the United States for removing Saddam, she dissolves into tears.

"Iraqis just want to live in peace, especially we women," she says. "We fear for our children. When my son leaves the house every morning, I don't know if he'll come home again." Like much in Iraq, this station has also been targeted.

(on camera): Terrorists and insurgents have so far killed eight of the network's employees and wounded more than 15 in ambushes and execution-style shootings. So a private U.S. contractor is trying to train at least 1,000 Iraqi security agents for its 31 sites around the country.

(voice-over): If violence is the callers' main concern, then jobs and electricity are a close second. Umbaka (ph), a mother in Baghdad, calls almost in tears, saying she fears for the life of her 6-month-old child because of major power and water cuts. The price of generators has skyrocketed and she can't afford one.

Amal's listeners say just hearing her voice makes them feel better. But, by the end of each morning, she is overwhelmed.

"Iraq is now living in a fog," she says. "We don't know what will happen next. We just hear words and promises. But so far, those promises have not materialized."

"We hope for July 1, when a new government takes over. They say Iraqis are patient people," she tells her listeners. "We've been patient all this time. God willing, things will get better."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: So, many of the Iraqis we do speak to, including Amal, say that they do hope that June 30 will mark a turning point. But they're not quite sure how. They expect not to see American troops on the street. But that, we know, is not necessarily going to be the case, because American troops still will be around maintaining the bulk of security -- Aaron.

BROWN: Does anybody call in and praise the Americans?

AMANPOUR: No. To be honest, we sat there for about an hour listening to that show, and it was more -- it wasn't about Americans, the show. It was about their daily lives. And there just was a torrent of complaints.

And we were quite surprised. We thought perhaps there would be more of a mix. But this show was particularly about being their link with their own authorities. And they were talking to specific ministers, about six different ministers. And it was all about daily concerns.

BROWN: Christiane, thank you. It's good to see you. And we'll see you again soon. Thank you, Christiane Amanpour, who is back in Baghdad.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, a little hope in a city that could use it these days and why all of Detroit is holding its collective breath tonight.

And later still, with a slam dunk of his own, the rooster brings morning papers by where else but NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Nineteen sixty-eight was a bad year. In that summer, Detroit was on the edge again of what many feared would be the worst race rioting in the country's history.

There was, it seemed, only one thing that kept black Detroit and white Detroit together. And that was baseball. And it is said -- and we believe it's true -- that had it not been for the Tigers, the city would have been lost. But the '68 Tigers were magic, their every move followed in both rich and poor parts of town, a reason to feel good in a summer of feeling bad.

Now, 2004 is not 1968 in Detroit, not nearly, but there are parallels. Only, this time, it isn't the Tigers, but the Pistons who have given a much maligned town something to feel good about.

Here's CNN's Chris Lawrence.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Hill's Barber Shop (ph) in Detroit, they cut hair and cut up about any and everything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But before the series started, they didn't pick the Pistons to win, none of them.

LAWRENCE: The city's pulse is not in the skyscrapers downtown, but in barbers' chairs like this one.

DIERRE NORFLEET, PISTONS FAN. The Pistons are definitely an inspiration.

LAWRENCE: Barber Dierre Norfleet says the Pistons earn his respect because they grind it out against more talented teams.

NORFLEET: Oh, yes, it's a blue-collar style in a blue-collar town.

LAWRENCE: Norfleet says it is easy to identify with the team's defense in a town defensive about its image.

NORFLEET: We're going to defend this town and the people -- the perception that people have against this town.

LAWRENCE: Detroit's critics have made it the butt of every bad joke, creating a sense that its better days are long gone.

REV. V. LONNIE PEEK, GREATER CHRIST BAPTIST CHURCH: People are counting Detroit out a lot. Detroit keeps coming back.

LAWRENCE: Over the past 30 years, the Reverend Lonnie Peek has seen the city down and nearly out. Right now, Detroiters are suffering through 12 percent unemployment. And some neighborhoods have no jobs, no homes, no hope.

The odds are against a turnaround. But the Reverend Peek says nobody gave the Pistons a chance either.

PEEK: We might not know the person who is touched by the spirit of the Pistons who win who will be laying there on the couch saying, dang, you know what? Let me get off of my can and let me start putting some energy into solving the problem, as opposed to just looking at the problem.

LAWRENCE: Some Detroiters say those problems don't look so big anymore now that they've got some help in defending the city.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAWRENCE: And fans tell us even a Pistons championship won't rebuild a home or create a new job. They also say, sometimes, it's enough just to be called a winner -- Aaron.

BROWN: Chris, thank you. We wish them good luck.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, the 100-year anniversary of a disaster you probably never heard of, a disaster that was, until 9/11, the worst that New York City had ever seen.

And morning papers are coming up, too.

A break first.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: One hundred years ago today, New Yorkers watched a disaster unfold as they looked on, unable to help. Hundreds died. The city went numb. Blame and finger-pointing followed. But the details, large and small, so vivid at the time, did not take long to fade.

Tonight, NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen takes a look again.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Wednesday morning June 15, 1904. To the sounds of a German band, more than 1,000 members of Saint Mark's Lutheran parish, most all of them German immigrant families, board the steamboat General Slocum in Lower Manhattan for a church outing up the East River. Disaster strikes just minutes after castoff.

EDWARD O'DONNELL, AUTHOR, "SHIP ABLAZE": It's about 10 minutes into the trip up the East River that a little boy runs up to one of the deck hands and says, Mister, there's smoke coming up a stairwell.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "MANHATTAN MELODRAMA")

UNIDENTIFIED ACTOR: Fire!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

NISSEN: Survivors' accounts of what happened next were used to recreate the scene in a 1934 film, "Manhattan Melodrama." A fire had started -- no one knows how -- in a storage room below decks. As smoke and panic rose, deck hands, who had never done fire drills, tried to contain the flames, which quickly roared through the wooden steamboat.

O'DONNELL: They formed a rough fire brigade, having never done it before, pulled down some musty old hoses from a rack, attached them to a stand pip, turned on the water and the hoses burst. They were completely rotten.

NISSEN: As investigators later found, so were the onboard life preservers, which dated back to 1891.

O'DONNELL: Thirteen years of son and salt had eroded them. And the cork blocks inside of them had essentially become dust. So people found these life preservers, dutifully put them on, jumped over the railings and sank like stones because the life preservers were essentially bags of dirt.

NISSEN: There are no photographs of the General Slocum aflame before the captain finally beached it. But drawings done by witnesses ashore are remarkably similar.

O'DONNELL: They all show huge flames shooting out of the side and up over the top of the ship and people falling, cascading over the sides.

NISSEN: Some were saved from the churning river water by rescuers, but not many. Scores of the dead were pulled in from the water, some burned, some trampled, most drowned. The first extras published that afternoon estimated the dead at about 300.

O'DONNELL: When the tide turned in the middle of the afternoon, more and more bodies began to come up. By about 4:00 or 5:00, the extras are now saying, the Slocum total may exceed 1,000. NISSEN: It did. Of the 1,300 who boarded the General Slocum, 1,021 died, almost 800 of them women and children. It was the worst tragedy in New York City history until September 11.

O'DONNELL: Funerals began as early as the day after the fire. The big day was Saturday, June 18, 1904, black Saturday. Thousands of New Yorkers came and lined the sidewalks and just watched hearse after hearse after hearse.

NISSEN: Some 600 were buried at the All Faiths Lutheran Cemetery in Queens, including the bodies of the 61 unknowns interred under a memorial to the Slocum dead.

O'DONNELL: They were just too badly burned or disfigured by the fire. They were discovered in the water weeks later.

NISSEN: There were speedy hearings, federal investigation, trials, focusing on the corner-cutting owner of the steamboat Slocum and the inspector who had vouched for the Slocum's safety equipment just five weeks before the tragedy. In the end, only the captain was convicted of negligence and manslaughter and sent to prison. The Slocum was soon forgotten.

O'DONNELL: If you had asked anyone in the days after the fire, would anybody ever forget this, nobody would have thought it possible that something so enormous could be forgotten. Yet, you find, within a decade, it's already slipping away.

NISSEN: After World War I, sympathy for anyone German plummeted. Other tragedies, the Triangle Shirtwaist factory fire, the sinking of the Titanic, overshadowed the Slocum. Life and New Yorkers moved on.

O'DONNELL: New York is a city that has only one gear. And that's forward, and only one mind-set, which is on the future.

NISSEN: Not without reminder on the losses of a century past.

Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydokey, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. And I'm talking real fast because there's so much to do and so little time to do it in.

"International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times." Down here, OK? I like this a lot. "Vatican Downsizes the Inquisition," the Vatican saying today, there really weren't that many witches and that many heretics killed or tortured during the Inquisition. So I'm glad we set the record straight. I just love that story. I mean, it resonates today, doesn't it? "The Christian Science Monitor" leads with the economy. "Inflation a Top Threat to the Economy." Consumer prices have risen 5.5 percent over the past -- for the last three months all across the economy. Actually, we've got a story on milk we've been trying to do. The price of milk has gone nuts of late.

"The Washington Times." Among the stories on its front page, this is a good story, I think. "Southern Baptists Leave Alliance, Cite Churches Open to Gays" as one of the reasons. Generally, I think they felt the overall alliance has gone too liberal for them.

How we doing on time? Thirty? Oh, my goodness.

Down here, this is "The Press of Atlantic City," New Jersey. I like this sort of story. They localize the war. "Quiet Reunion For Soldier On Family Leave in the Cape," or "In Cape." I assume that's Cape May. I'm not absolutely positive of that. That's a good story.

Let's just do the weather in Chicago. You got that little chime thing?

(CHIMES)

BROWN: Thank you. The weather tomorrow -- I don't know what else it's called -- a chime thing, isn't it? "Mischievous" is the weather in Chicago. It sounds like they might get some rain there.

And are we out of time? OK, let's do this one then, just a final. If you've been wondering what happened to Sklenner's (ph) buses, they're in service, that according to the "Burt County Plaindealer" out there in Burt County, Nebraska. We love this paper and we love those folks. And we would probably like Mr. Sklenner, but we don't know him.

We'll wrap it up for the day in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Let me put this simply. We'll see you tomorrow at 10:00.

Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com