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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Saddam Hussein is Defiant in Court

Aired July 01, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
If you think about it, it isn't that easy being a former dictator. First of all, there isn't really a rule book on how to act. Most former dictators don't survive. They're overthrown by someone who more times than not is just as bad.

But if they do survive, it isn't easy. Take Saddam for example. For a generation he got his way on everything. He wanted a new palace, he got one. He wanted a new wife, he got that too.

His kids needed a job. He was able to get them a nice position running a torture chamber or a paramilitary group. If his assistant started to tick him off, why the assistant just disappeared. So, it was a pretty good life except for the attempts on his life every now and then but then nothing's perfect.

Then all of a sudden he's out of work, living in the back of an old taxi for a while or a hole in the ground and then a prison where no one much cares who he was just what he might know.

So, today the old dictator walks into a makeshift courtroom and he's a bit unsteady and you can understand that. And then the old guy finally finds his voice and behaves like the dictator he once was only this time no one is afraid.

A good thing happened today and it dominates the program and begins the whip and the whip begins in Baghdad where CNN's Christiane Amanpour was in the courtroom, Christiane a headline please.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the headline is the pictures that you haven't seen yet, the pictures of him actually being led into the courtroom and, at that point, he did look like a broken man. He went on to talk to the judge but all along the judge this time was in control of the dictator.

BROWN: Christiane, thank you. We'll get back to you eagerly at the top tonight.

On to the White House and our senior White House Correspondent John King. The president said nothing publicly about the courtroom but there is a headline still -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And that was striking, Aaron. This is a president who launched the war two days ahead of schedule with a missile strike trying to kill Saddam Hussein. In almost every speech he says the world is better off without him. But with the dictator in court today the president left the talking to others but the White House made clear sure he'll get a fair trial. They think here that he's quite guilty.

BROWN: John, thank you.

The White House has good reason to downplay the role the United States is playing or has played in the tribunal. It has been a considerable role. Bob Franken in Washington with that part of the Saddam story, Bob a headline.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, not only will Saddam Hussein be on trial but so will those who are trying to succeed him and prove to Iraqis and the world that they are separate from the United States government that is propping them up.

BROWN: Bob, thank you, back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight an extraordinary look at the rings of Saturn and the successful journey that began seven years ago. This is something.

Plus, the world through the eyes of Al-Jazeera, perhaps the world's most controversial and, in some respects, most important television network.

And just in case you don't get enough news here on NEWSNIGHT we'll bring you tomorrow's news too, tomorrow morning's papers tonight, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin in a courtroom on the grounds of a presidential palace built by Saddam Hussein where today the world got its first look at the former dictator since his capture almost seven months ago.

The arraignment lasted barely 30 minutes but was long on drama nonetheless. We have several reports tonight beginning with Christiane Amanpour, one of the few journalists allowed in that courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): As Saddam Hussein was walked into court he looked somewhat broken, unsure of what was going on. Then he took his seat before an investigative judge who asked him to say his name.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq.

AMANPOUR: What followed was a spirited exchange with the judge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): You also have to introduce yourself to me, Mr. Saddam. I am the investigative judge of the Central Court of Iraq.

AMANPOUR: Saddam asked whether he was permitted to have lawyers there. The judge said yes and read him his rights. The judge also read him seven charges, including attacking the Kurds of Halabja with chemical weapons.

To that Saddam replied that he too heard about Halabja in the media. "They say it happened under the rule of Saddam Hussein," he said. "Poison gas was used there."

Saddam was also charged with the brutal suppression of the Kurd and Shiite rebellions right after the first Gulf War and of killing political and religious figures throughout his rule.

When the judge read the last charge, the invasion of Kuwait, Saddam Hussein became angry insisting that it was his duty as commander-in-chief to defend the Iraqi people from Kuwait which wanted to dramatically lower oil prices.

HUSSEIN (through translator): How can you punish that person while that person given his title has guarantees against being sued?

AMANPOUR: Saddam insulted the Kuwaitis and the judge reprimanded him saying such language would not be permitted in a court of law. He also insulted President George W. Bush saying this was a theater organized by "the criminal Bush to win his campaign."

Saddam also asked the judge who had jurisdiction over him. He asked him whether he was representing the occupation forces and he insisted that the occupation could not strip him of his presidency.

When the judge asked Saddam to sign the court documents showing that he had been read his rights and he had been offered legal counsel, he refused saying that he would not sign without a lawyer.

HUSSEIN (through translator): Please allow me, allow me not to sign until the lawyers are present.

AMANPOUR: That ended the hearing. Saddam stood and was escorted out and back into U.S. military custody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And after that there was a short break and then the other 11 members of his former regime, the top members, were brought into the court as well one by one, familiar faces who also face the same judge -- Aaron.

BROWN: All right, Christiane, let me ask maybe three or four really quick questions. How many people were in the room besides the judge and the defendant?

AMANPOUR: I've got to make a quick arithmetic, something like ten.

BROWN: OK, so roughly a dozen. Did he acknowledge their presence at all?

AMANPOUR: He looked around. He made eye contact when he came in. He was stunned to see this bank of television cameras and lights flashing, not usually, that never usually happened in his presidency. It was always very controlled and he did look at us several times as he made wry asides during his exchange with the judge.

BROWN: Is it your best guess that he was generally aware that sovereignty had been passed back to the Iraqis?

AMANPOUR: I think he was a bit confused about who was -- who had jurisdiction over this legal process. He kept asking is it the occupation that's trying me and the judge was trying to explain and he had been told the day before that sovereignty had been transferred and legal custody of him had been transferred but he was still asking quite a lot of questions on that issue.

BROWN: And finally, this will perhaps take a little bit longer, do you have any feeling based on what you saw today as to how he'll behave when the trial, whenever that actually begins, begins? Will it be like Milosevic? Will it be something else? Do you have a guess?

AMANPOUR: Well, I asked specifically the tribunal's executive director about that very fact, will he be allowed to defend himself like Milosevic has been allowed to in The Hague? Will he be allowed to turn any trial into a political platform, a show for himself?

And the executive director Salem Chalabi said they had learned from the tribunal in The Hague and they were not going to allow that but that is still to be hammered out.

We don't know who he will choose as a lawyer but I would say though that the judge today was in control of that process even though Saddam was questioning him. Those 30 minutes had been allocated for Saddam to talk, to ask questions and to have precisely the exchange that he did.

BROWN: It was a heck of a moment to witness, Christiane, I'm envious. Thank you, Christiane Amanpour in Baghdad.

Saddam Hussein arrived at court in shackles but it didn't take him long to hit his stride once the proceedings began, as Christiane has said, as the television rolled the world watched, perhaps no one more closely than those than those who suffered under his regime.

CNN's Brent Sadler tonight with that part of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Baghdad they call it the trial of the century. This is Act One, Iraqis glued to the proceedings, a fair trial that from the viewpoints of many seems too fair.

"He'll never confess to his crimes" says Taha Majid (ph). "Forget this trial. It's better to execute him now."

The tape played around the world shows Saddam Hussein uncertain at first then pouring scorn on the proceedings, rejecting charges of war crimes and genocide, trying to beat the system.

HUSSEIN (through translator): So that I have to know you are an investigative judge of the Central Court of Iraq. What resolution, what law formed this court?

SADLER: An inaudible reply but Saddam pounces.

HUSSEIN (through translator): Oh, the coalition forces? So you are an Iraqi that -- you are representing the occupying forces?

SADLER: Hida Hassan (ph) and his family wince at the verbal blows on the anonymous young judge. They are Shia Muslims who claim they've lost seven relatives during Saddam's rule. The courtroom drama is making them mad.

"What is this," says Ali Hassan (ph)? "He doesn't look like a criminal. He's more like the judge."

SADLER (on camera): They were expecting to see images befitting a fallen despot cornered by the law but instead they saw Saddam Hussein in court casually dressed, powerless but still provocative.

(voice-over): "The accused should not appear like this," says Hida Hassan. "He should be wearing a prison suit and locked in a cage."

Brother Saud Hassan (ph) is a recruit with the new Iraqi security forces. "He doesn't deserve this much respect. His supporters will be happy to see him in such good shape."

In Awja, Saddam's birthplace, some were carrying his framed picture and chanting in support of him and this was just the opening round of a long legal battle.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Saddam Hussein's court appearance came a day after Iraq took legal custody of the former dictator and just three days after the country emerged from occupation as a sovereign nation, at least officially.

The court itself was formed by the coalition before power changed hands on Monday. That aside, Iraqis are now in charge of running it. And, today the Bush administration was careful to project a respectful distance.

Our Senior White House Correspondent John King tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president watched a snippet of news coverage but said nothing publicly about Saddam Hussein's dramatic day in court. In New Orleans, the vice president recalls his last visit was on the day Saddam's statue was toppled. DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, 15 months later, Saddam Hussein stands arraigned in an Iraqi court where he will face the justice he denied to millions.

KING: The Iraqi tribunal accuses Saddam of atrocities against his people and of illegally invading Kuwait back in 1990. The vice president continued to press another charge many accuse the Bush administration of exaggerating, insisting the former Iraqi leader had longstanding ties to al Qaeda and its allies, including providing sanctuary to the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

CHENEY: The Iraqi regime refused to turn over Zarqawi even when twice being provided with detailed information about his presence in Baghdad.

KING: That Mr. Bush kept to his regular schedule was by design. The White House calls the trial the business of the new Iraqi government and a chance for that government to prove its commitment to the rule of law.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And the president is pleased that Saddam Hussein and his regime leaders are facing justice from the Iraqi people in an Iraqi court.

KING: Not that the White House presumes Saddam innocent until proven guilty.

MCCLELLAN: Saddam Hussein's regime was responsible for the systematic terrorizing, torture, killing and raping of innocent Iraqis.

KING: And the administration dismissed the former Iraqi leader's charge that his trial was all theater only to help the Bush reelection campaign.

MCCLELLAN: Saddam Hussein is going to say all sorts of things.

KING: The war began with a missile strike designed to kill Saddam.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And back in those days, the president made clear on more than one occasion he would not lose any sleep if the Iraqi president lost his life in a U.S. attack. But now, as part of its hands off strategy, the White House says whether Saddam Hussein should get the death penalty is an issue to be resolved by the new Iraqi tribunal -- Aaron.

BROWN: It has been for the White House in many ways an extraordinary week, the handover, the Supreme Court decisions on enemy combatants and the rest and now today's events. On balance do they think it's been a good week?

KING: On balance they do think it has been a good week and not so much even because of today's event but because today's event took place in an Iraq that has not had the widespread violence that the administration anticipated when it handed over power.

The White House believes if you can get a few weeks of that perhaps you can change a political dynamic here in this country that over the past few months, especially since the insurgency and the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal has turned against this president.

BROWN: John, thank you, our Senior White House Correspondent John King tonight.

Saddam Hussein was the undisputed main act in today's court drama but he did have quite a supporting cast. Eleven of his former top lieutenants also went before the judge, Tariq Aziz, Iraq's former foreign minister and deputy prime minister, among them.

Mr. Aziz was one of the most familiar faces in Saddam's regime, the only Christian in the top Ba'ath Party leadership. Today he asked the judge for an Arab non-Iraqi lawyer and a "foreign lawyer" as well. He also argued that he was not personally responsible for any murders.

Ali Hassan al-Majid, widely known as "Chemical Ali," was also charged today for his role in the chemical attacks against the Kurds.

He was out of sight for a time. Then he reappeared the other day and then the familiar but unfamiliar face gave us some pause. Saddam Hussein has been a man we have been seeing but in many ways haven't really known for a very long time. Maybe Iraqis feel that way too that all along he has just been a series of poses, of posters, of faces that changed only subtly at least until recently.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Too dark-eyed, too dark haired, stiff seeming, in uniform or business suit, military head gear or Fedora hat, somehow at second glance you always wondered, didn't you, was that really the same Saddam as in the last picture alleged to be of him?

Remember all that talk about how many doubles he had? It was that kind of face, disturbingly different in a lot of little ways from month to month and year to year, the same figure but then again maybe not.

He was in the pictures, and this of course is a dictator's trick, not a man so much as a presentation, squared off, puffed up, a flesh- covered sculpture, something intended to be seen from a great distance on a balcony, a figure head.

Until in defeat pulled out of his hole, he fell apart, grew jowls, gray hair, a scruffy beard. But now in court something of the too dark-eye, too dark haired figure head seems to be returning. You can see from time to time that inside the defendant there still lives a dictator.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We talked earlier about how restrained the White House reaction was to the Saddam hearing today. This was, as John King said, the Iraqi show. That is an important message for the United States to send, even if it is not entirely true. Whatever plays out in Iraq, the trial of Saddam and the others will have many Iraqi actors but in some respects the script was made in America.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): The cliche, perception is reality, has real meaning here. The United States must battle the perception that instead of an Iraqi legal proceeding, the U.S. is running the show.

ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: This is an Iraqi process managed by Iraqis according to Iraqi laws, according to Iraqi procedures. It is Iraqis judging Iraqis.

FRANKEN: But the Americans are heavily involved. U.S. lawyers helped draft the rules for the war crimes tribunal. The United States is spending $75 million and has about 50 advisers from the Justice Department, FBI, other U.S. agencies teaching Iraqis how to gather evidence and run the prosecution. Some might regard that as an inherent contradiction but the U.S. wants to make sure Saddam is convicted only after what the world perceives as a fair trial.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: This should not have the appearance or the reality of a kangaroo court.

FRANKEN: The lawyer who represented Manuel Noriega, deposed by the United States as Panama's leaders and still in a U.S. prison, believes fairness demands that Saddam get an international trial.

FRANK RUINIO, FORMER NORIEGA CRIMINAL ATTORNEY: I think it would be most important that the trial be moved to the World Court at The Hague.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia is now in session.

FRANKEN: That's where deposed Bosnian leader Slobodan Milosevic has been facing war crime charges. Former State Department lawyer Paul Williams, who worked on that case, says this is different.

PAUL WILLIAMS, AMERICAN UNIV. LAW SCHOOL: They're coming into their own sovereignty post Saddam and it's going to be very, very important for the interim government, for the people of Iraq to demonstrate that they have control over the former regime.

FRANKEN: A former U.S. war crimes ambassador thinks Saddam should have been allowed an attorney at his arraignment, even though Iraqi law did not require that.

DAVID SCHEFFER, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR FOR WAR CRIMES: They have to be extremely careful and lean over backwards to ensure that he has all of the due process rights of a defendant now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: If the appearance of legitimacy is so important, then in the process of discrediting Saddam Hussein the new government leaders must be careful not to discredit themselves -- Aaron.

BROWN: Bob, thank you, Bob Franken who's in Washington tonight.

We'll have more on the tribunal and more on Saddam's day in court on the program a little bit later.

Also coming up we'll take a journey to the center of Saturn's rings and we have the pictures to prove it. This is something when you think about how far these pictures have come.

After that why some Republican faithful are hitting the campaign trail for Ralph Nader, my goodness.

From New York, and there it is, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's not news to tell you there are rings around the planet Saturn. We all knew that. But seeing those rings up close today after a remarkable seven year journey was a reminder that even in our age of cynicism there are still things we marvel at, things that take our breath away. Cassini did that today.

Here's CNN's Mile O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Talk about a ringside seat, the Cassini spacecraft has nestled into Saturn's orbit giving scientists an out of this world main event.

ED WEILER, NASA ASSOC. ADMIN.: Citizens of Earth, I would like to present the majestic rings of Saturn.

O'BRIEN: Nearly seven years after it left Earth, Cassini, the largest, most elaborate, most expensive planetary probe ever, twice shot a gap in Saturn's rocky rings and ended up safe and sound orbiting the solar system's second largest planet. A rock the size of a marble could have taken the $3 billion craft out.

The celebration came after a tense 96-minute engine firing that slowed down the gangly six-ton spacecraft just enough to feel Saturn's pull.

CHARLES ELACHI, DIRECTOR, JET PROPULSION LAB: Probably this was the longest 90 minutes that I've ever spent. I never realized how long is 90 minutes until today.

O'BRIEN: As it stitched between the rings, the craft was programmed to aim its cameras right at them. The rings are made mostly of ice, possibly the remnants of a moon that came too close to Saturn and was ripped apart. Scientists are fascinated by the rings because, among other things, they resemble planets in formation.

ELACHI: So, in a sense it gives us a picture of how most likely the whole solar system might have formed taken in miniature.

O'BRIEN: Ring scientists, yes there are such things, are focusing on the distinct bands that appear to be cleared away by some sort of celestial Zamboni. It is quite likely some of these are created by previously unknown moons of Saturn.

KEVIN GRAZIER, SCIENTIST: There's a very good chance that the moon count will climb in the very near future.

O'BRIEN (on camera): As interesting and beautiful as the planet may be, Saturn's moons may provide the most scientific pay dirt. The highlight could come in January when the spacecraft will send a tiny probe onto the surface of Titan, a Saturn moon that is the size of a planet.

Scientists believe it has an atmosphere which mimics Earth's as it was when it was a toddler. The probe could provide a distant mirror to our own origins here.

Miles O'Brien, CNN, Pasadena, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That is something.

Back on earth, they say that all is fair in love and politics and, if that is true, what we're about to report is fair. Whether it is also right is something else again. That will depend on your own politics, as much as anything else.

But, if nothing else, this story proves again the old adage about politics making for strange bedfellows. In this case, Ralph Nader and supporters of George W. Bush.

Here's CNN's Judy Woodruff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Ralph Nader's candidacy is the single biggest danger to the Kerry candidacy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): It may be the only thing Howard Dean and Republicans can agree on. Ralph Nader, political maverick, could siphon votes from John Kerry and possibly cost Democrats the White House again.

Nader is on the ballot in six states now, Michigan, Mississippi, Colorado, Kansas, Montana, oh yes and Florida too. He was hoping a Green Party endorsement would spread his reach across at least 23 states but the Greens threw their support elsewhere and now some conservatives are working on behalf of the long time liberal.

MATT KIBBE, PRESIDENT, CITIZENS FOR A SOUND ECONOMY: You know frankly our strategy was to split the liberal base.

WOODRUFF: In Oregon, the Citizens Committee for a Sound Economy, a Washington-based anti-tax group, and the Oregon Family Council, an organization of Christian conservatives have launched an all out effort to get Nader on the ballot.

KIBBE: What we are doing is asking citizens of Oregon to show up and participate in the political debate about who will be on the ballot for president.

WOODRUFF: In 2000, Al Gore squeaked by George W. Bush in the state by fewer than 7,000 votes. Polls show this year's margin is razor thin and Nader could make the difference in Oregon but the conservative groups are thinking bigger.

KIBBE: We're looking at all the swing states.

WOODRUFF: A Bush-Cheney spokeswoman spoke glowingly of the effort. She said no campaign staffers were involved but wouldn't rule out that Bush-Cheney volunteers helped. Democrats, for their part, are crying foul.

JANO CABRERA, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Republican are doing this because they want to help elect Bush into office and they're using Ralph Nader as a means to achieve an end.

WOODRUFF: And what does Nader think? Well, he's angry at Democrats who he says are using dirty tricks to dissuade Oregonians from signing his petitions.

RALPH NADER (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They want to censor and stifle and sabotage the opportunity for tens of thousands of Oregonian voters to vote for the candidates of their choice.

WOODRUFF: The DNC says it's anyone's right to try to convince voters not to bond with Ralph Nader.

Judy Woodruff, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: One other campaign note tonight. Today, New Mexico's Governor Bill Richardson told Senator John Kerry he no longer wants to be considered as a possible running mate. Governor Richardson said he wants to keep a promise he made to New Mexico's voters to serve out his full four-year term.

Coming up now on NEWSNIGHT, inside the courtroom where Saddam Hussein got his first taste of justice today, what the world did not see. We'll talk with John Burns of "The New York Times."

And later, the dangerous legacy of one of the most shameful chapters in American medical history, how to heal the wounds of (unintelligible), a break first.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There's been some moving things around as people have become available to us tonight.

John Burns of "The New York Times" was in the courtroom today with Saddam Hussein and perhaps a dozen or so others. And John, who has filed wonderful work out of Iraq, joins us now from Baghdad. It's always good to see him.

John, in your briefing, you describe at one point Saddam as seemingly a broken man and then later you say he is full of defiance. Is there a contradiction in that?

JOHN BURNS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": I don't think there is.

Aaron, I'm not a psychologist. You're not. But I would guess that they would have a field day looking at the tape of this. This is a man whose mood shifts were rapid and almost violent over the 26 minutes that he was in that courtroom, at times depressed, at times almost hopeless, I thought, a shadow of himself and then, within a few minutes, defiant, angry, contemptuous, and then back to the kind of sense of hopelessness and deflation.

I don't really know what that means, but I guess it would have something to do with the loss of everything that mattered to him.

BROWN: Yes.

Were the mood shifts tied to specifically what was going on in the court at the time? Or did he just seem to be riding this roller- coaster?

BURNS: My impression was that he came into the courtroom and he was kind of startled by the light. Remember, he'd been isolated for a very long time. He'd been in complete isolation since he was captured on December 13. And God knows how long he'd been in that spider hole before that.

He seemed to be kind of like a hunted man in an alien land when he came into that room. He looked about him in a startled way. He seemed startled to see Westerners there, odd because, of course, he's been under American military guard. He looked over in the direction of Christiane Amanpour, myself and Peter Jennings with considerable dismay, I thought, and contempt. And there was a U.S. Navy admiral there looking like he was off to the golf course in tan chinos and a yellow short-sleeved sport shirt. Goodness knows what he made of that.

So I think it took him a while to get dialed in and to find his pitch. And eventually, about halfway through his 26 minutes, he did get dialed in. And then he was the president of Iraq, as he sees it.

BROWN: Yes.

BURNS: And a great deal of time was spent insisting that the judge recognize that.

BROWN: Did the judge ever take the bait, as it were?

BURNS: No. As a matter of fact, the real star of the occasion for my money was not Saddam Hussein. We've seen him do this routine before. As a matter of fact, when he came out of the spider hole, we saw the "I am the president of Iraq" routine. And that wears a little bit thin a little bit fast.

But the judge was remarkable. This is a man of less than 40 doing one of the most difficult jobs anywhere, certainly a lot more dangerous than my job. And he was steadfast. He was cool. He didn't rise to the bait. He didn't get angry. When Saddam interrupted, he cut him off. He moved the process along. He gave Saddam just enough rope, but not too much.

And I thought he was a real star. We're not allowed to name this man and for obvious reasons. But he's a brave fellow. And he's a competent man.

BROWN: John, good to see you. It's one of those -- we all get into this business and we talk about wanting a box seat to the great events. You had a box seat to one of the great events. Thank you very much, John Burns of "The New York Times."

Now back to the question of the tribunal itself.

We're joined now in Chicago by DePaul University professor of law, Cherif Bassiouni, who, among other things, is president of the International Human Rights Law Institute and who helped draw up the original sketch, you might say, for what is about to unfold, this tribunal that Saddam Hussein is facing. And it is good to see the professor tonight.

Is this still very much a work in progress? Are they to some degree making up the rules as they go?

M. CHERIF BASSIOUNI, DEPAUL UNIVERSITY: I think it is a work in progress. In fact, the rules of procedure and evidence are still in draft form.

There are also a lot of bugs in the way the statute was originally drafted. There was just too much U.S. influence by people from various government agencies in the U.S. who really didn't know much about the Iraqi legal system and who thought they would blend what they know of the American legal system with the Iraqi legal system. And the two really don't mesh.

So there is going to be a little bit of fine-tuning that's going to be necessary before the statute under which the trial is going to proceed in a few months is going to be adequate.

BROWN: Can you give me an example of one of these little glitches that you just talked about?

BASSIOUNI: Well, there are a number of glitches. The Iraqi legal system is similar to the French inquisitorial legal system. And it is completely different from our adversary, accusatorial system. In that system, they have something called the investigative judge or the judge of instruction, which functions a little bit like our grand jury, but more than that.

It is that person who goes and collects the evidence. And so we don't have a process by which there's a prosecutor who goes and gets the evidence and fights it out in court against the defense counsel. There's an impartial judge who gathers the evidence, makes his findings and submits them to the court.

The court then decides whether it will accept the findings of the investigative magistrate or whether it wants to reopen some of these questions. And it's really only at that stage that the defense has its role to play at the trial level.

BROWN: Professor, just in the half-a-minute that we have left, what would you say the risks are for the tribunal itself?

BASSIOUNI: Well, I think the biggest risk at this point is to have too many members of the Department of Justice trying to giftwrap a case American-style with American fingerprints all over it, and particularly if the case is going to be a historic case, a la Nuremberg, where they're going to try to show the misdeeds of the regime for the last 30 years, opening an opportunity for Saddam to say to the world that all of these governments, including the United States, aided and abetted.

And that will turn the whole thing into a big farce.

BROWN: Professor, very nice to have you with us tonight. Thank you, sir.

BASSIOUNI: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, they were poor, they were black and their diseases went untreated for decades, all because of a government study. Undoing the damage of the Tuskegee experiment today, or at least an attempt to.

And later, an insider's look at Al-Jazeera. Called the Osama bin Laden network by some in this country, it's become the most important news network in the Arab world.

We'll take a break. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: At the White House today, President Bush marked tomorrow's 40th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act. In 1964, the landmark law began to move the country down the path toward equal rights. It did not, however, stop injustice overnight. Consider this. On the very day -- the very day -- that law was signed, one of the most shameful undertakings in the history of medicine was still unfolding. The victims of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment were poor African-American men in the rural South. What happened to them would shatter the trust for generations of African-Americans. In Alabama this week, an effort made to rebuild the trust.

Here's CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It seems unbelievable when you hear about it now, that, for decades, government doctors recruited illiterate black sharecroppers with syphilis by telling them they'd take care of them, but, instead, deliberately never gave them penicillin, the cure for the disease.

HERMAN SHAW, TUSKEGEE SYPHILIS STUDY SURVIVOR: They didn't even tell us anything, just go on treating us just like dumb pigs, or guinea pigs.

COHEN: The U.S. Public Health Service, along with local doctors and nurses, intentionally allowed these men to suffer the ravages of syphilis just so they could study the natural course of the disease.

As is common when the disease goes untreated, some of the men went blind. For some of them, the disease attacked the brain and the heart and many of them died. While the government never told the men they had syphilis, many others knew what was going on. Doctors frequently published study results in medical journals and discussed them at conferences.

The experiment went on for 40 years. The studies continued even after the Nuremberg Code was written, a set of regulations for preventing abuse of human study subjects that grew out of the Nazi medical experiments. Then, in 1972, a whistle-blower from within the Public Health Service leaked the story to the press. Outraged followed.

And because of Tuskegee, for the first time, the U.S. adopted strict rules for medical research and clinical trials. But trust had already been shattered by decades of betrayal. How to overcome the legacy of Tuskegee is now the challenge. Many leaders in the African- American community say much time has already been lost. It took 25 years for a president to apologize.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What the United States government did was shameful, and I am sorry.

COHEN: This week, 32 years after the experiment ended, as part of an effort to rebuild that trust, the government has come back to Tuskegee.

CLAUDE ALLEN, DEPUTY HHS SECRETARY: How do we go about getting more and better health care to communities of color, but also getting participation from communities of color in our research activities?

COHEN: Some say this week's conference is a start, but still not nearly enough minorities join medical studies. For example, just 5 percent of the study subjects in cancer clinical trials are African- American, even though they make up 12 percent of the population. Lack of participation means drugs sometimes are developed without being fully tested on minorities.

BILL JENKINS, MOREHOUSE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: All too often, we produce a medication by studying a very narrow group like white males, only to find out that that medication may not only be unhelpful to other populations; it may actually be dangerous to other populations.

COHEN: According to the Food and Drug Administration, studies have shown that African-Americans respond differently than others to certain medicines, such as those for high-blood pressure and hepatitis.

FRED GRAY, ATTORNEY: The circle in the middle represents the memorial tile.

COHEN: Fred Gray, a lawyer for the men who survived the study, says he hopes this memorial, still in the planning stages, will help heal wounds by bearing witness to the men who were duped into thinking they were getting care when, in fact, they were just being used as guinea pigs.

Elizabeth Cohen, Tuskegee, Alabama.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, often criticized by the American government, Al-Jazeera is more than a hit in the Arab world. Ahead, a look at a fascinating documentary about the controversial news network.

And we'll wrap it up tonight, as we always do, with morning papers. So there's plenty to do here still tonight.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Al-Jazeera, the Arabic satellite news operation some in this country call the Osama bin Laden network, in truth, it is a whole lot more complicated than that. That the network has become an important lens through which the Arab world views events is indisputable. That it is often controversial is certain.

The network is the subject of a fascinating documentary called "Control Room." In a moment, its director.

First, a taste of the film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "CONTROL ROOM")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They bombed this place in northern Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pulverized, dead bodies en masse. I mean, why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got the pictures and we show them. Of course, we get grief from the Americans for showing these pictures, because we will be inciting rebellion and all the -- basically instigating anti-American sentiments.

I'm sorry. They can't have their cake and eat it. I mean, yes, OK, the most powerful nation is America, I agree. You can defeat everybody, I agree. You can crush everybody, I agree. But don't ask us to love it as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We're joined now by the director of "Control Room," Jehane Noujaim. She's an Egyptian-American filmmaker.

It is quite a piece of work. Nicely done.

JEHANE NOUJAIM, DIRECTOR, "CONTROL ROOM": Thank you.

BROWN: Does Al-Jaz, do they think of themselves as coming at this with a point of view or do they think of themselves as essentially objective reporters covering the story?

NOUJAIM: I think they think of themselves as coming with a point of view. They try to be objective. And the way they do that is try to bring people from the opposite side of the debate on always.

But everybody's got a point of view. The war was happening in their backyard. They had many reporters who were Iraqi. So you see a lot of emotion in the film. When I was filming, you saw a translator shooing away Bush while he was translating.

BROWN: As an organization, do they have an organizational distrust for the American government?

NOUJAIM: I don't think they have a distrust for the government. I mean, I don't think that they were very supportive of this U.S. administration or their -- or the war against Iraq in a general sense. But I think that they're doing a lot to educate the Arab community about democracy.

I mean, the interesting thing during the Abu Ghraib prison scandals was that they showed four hours a day of this questioning of Rumsfeld. Now, these prison abuses happen all across the Arab world. Yet Arabs know that their leaders are not being put on trial like this. So this was an example of democracy in action.

BROWN: And I think in the way that sometimes Al-Jazeera is portrayed in the very black-and-white sort of way, one of the things that goes unsaid too often is that they can be very hard on these Arab regimes across the Middle East that are horribly autocratic. NOUJAIM: They've been kicked out of a bunch of Arab countries. Their reporters have been jailed. Growing up in Egypt, I always knew them as kind of the bad boys of news. So I was curious to find out who were these people behind this channel, which is why I went and filmed the guys at Al-Jazeera.

BROWN: Why should Americans see this?

NOUJAIM: I think it shifts your perspective. I think we have very -- sometimes, we get a very, very narrow perspective on things and we think that that's fact.

People have seen this film and come up to us kind of crying afterwards, very, very emotionally moved by it and feeling like they're seeing a whole different version of reality. And it is. It is looking at this war from a completely different perspective, which is the Jazeera perspective and the Arab perspective.

BROWN: Do you think pictures have more power -- this almost sounds condescending, the way I'm about to ask it -- more power in the Arab world than they do in the Western world?

NOUJAIM: No. I mean, look at the prison photos from Abu Ghraib. That sparked huge debate here.

BROWN: But they show more graphic and powerful pictures than we would ever show. Is that simply a cultural difference?

NOUJAIM: That's a good question, because people always talked about the Spanish networks, how they covered September 11 and how the image was more graphic.

BROWN: Yes.

NOUJAIM: Yet, at the same time, I think this is what they were seeing on the ground. They had a lot of Iraqi reporters on the ground. And so they were seeing the civilians in the hospitals.

And, yes, images have a huge effect, I think, here and there. Do they show more graphics and why are they showing more graphics? That's a good question. Why is the U.S. not showing more graphic pictures? There was generally a sense at Al-Jazeera that the U.S. government was afraid that these photographs and images that we actually show in our film, people were very worried that they would get back to the U.S. and have a similar reaction as what happened in Vietnam, that people would react to this.

BROWN: The film is called "Control Room." Best of luck to you. Thanks for coming by.

NOUJAIM: Thanks. They can check it out at ControlRoomMovie.com, where it is opening. That's my pitch.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: You did it well. Thank you. Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers, not much time for this, all Saddam headlines. The pictures are as cool as the words.

"The Guardian," British paper. "I Am Saddam Hussein, the President of Iraq." Look at the picture.

"The Times," also a British paper. "Saddam Confronts Destiny." I like that picture there.

"The Washington Times" uses a series of pictures. "Saddam Charged With War Crimes. Ex-Dictator Defiant, Angry at Arraignment." And they put four different pictures up there.

One of those also appears in "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," but they use the word feisty, "Saddam Feisty at Court Hearing."

Where's the -- I need the San Antonio paper? You got it? No, I have it somewhere. Where is it? Where? I love this one. "Trash- Talking Saddam Sneers at Iraqi Court." That's the "San Antonio Express-News" lead on them. They kind of show that.

"I Am Saddam Hussein, the President of Iraq" is "The Oregonian" out in Portland, Oregon.

The weather tomorrow in Chicago is nice. But that's not the word, believe me. The word is "yippee."

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Have a great weekend and good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 1, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
If you think about it, it isn't that easy being a former dictator. First of all, there isn't really a rule book on how to act. Most former dictators don't survive. They're overthrown by someone who more times than not is just as bad.

But if they do survive, it isn't easy. Take Saddam for example. For a generation he got his way on everything. He wanted a new palace, he got one. He wanted a new wife, he got that too.

His kids needed a job. He was able to get them a nice position running a torture chamber or a paramilitary group. If his assistant started to tick him off, why the assistant just disappeared. So, it was a pretty good life except for the attempts on his life every now and then but then nothing's perfect.

Then all of a sudden he's out of work, living in the back of an old taxi for a while or a hole in the ground and then a prison where no one much cares who he was just what he might know.

So, today the old dictator walks into a makeshift courtroom and he's a bit unsteady and you can understand that. And then the old guy finally finds his voice and behaves like the dictator he once was only this time no one is afraid.

A good thing happened today and it dominates the program and begins the whip and the whip begins in Baghdad where CNN's Christiane Amanpour was in the courtroom, Christiane a headline please.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the headline is the pictures that you haven't seen yet, the pictures of him actually being led into the courtroom and, at that point, he did look like a broken man. He went on to talk to the judge but all along the judge this time was in control of the dictator.

BROWN: Christiane, thank you. We'll get back to you eagerly at the top tonight.

On to the White House and our senior White House Correspondent John King. The president said nothing publicly about the courtroom but there is a headline still -- John.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: And that was striking, Aaron. This is a president who launched the war two days ahead of schedule with a missile strike trying to kill Saddam Hussein. In almost every speech he says the world is better off without him. But with the dictator in court today the president left the talking to others but the White House made clear sure he'll get a fair trial. They think here that he's quite guilty.

BROWN: John, thank you.

The White House has good reason to downplay the role the United States is playing or has played in the tribunal. It has been a considerable role. Bob Franken in Washington with that part of the Saddam story, Bob a headline.

BOB FRANKEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, not only will Saddam Hussein be on trial but so will those who are trying to succeed him and prove to Iraqis and the world that they are separate from the United States government that is propping them up.

BROWN: Bob, thank you, back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight an extraordinary look at the rings of Saturn and the successful journey that began seven years ago. This is something.

Plus, the world through the eyes of Al-Jazeera, perhaps the world's most controversial and, in some respects, most important television network.

And just in case you don't get enough news here on NEWSNIGHT we'll bring you tomorrow's news too, tomorrow morning's papers tonight, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin in a courtroom on the grounds of a presidential palace built by Saddam Hussein where today the world got its first look at the former dictator since his capture almost seven months ago.

The arraignment lasted barely 30 minutes but was long on drama nonetheless. We have several reports tonight beginning with Christiane Amanpour, one of the few journalists allowed in that courtroom.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): As Saddam Hussein was walked into court he looked somewhat broken, unsure of what was going on. Then he took his seat before an investigative judge who asked him to say his name.

SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER IRAQI PRESIDENT (through translator): Saddam Hussein, the president of the Republic of Iraq.

AMANPOUR: What followed was a spirited exchange with the judge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): You also have to introduce yourself to me, Mr. Saddam. I am the investigative judge of the Central Court of Iraq.

AMANPOUR: Saddam asked whether he was permitted to have lawyers there. The judge said yes and read him his rights. The judge also read him seven charges, including attacking the Kurds of Halabja with chemical weapons.

To that Saddam replied that he too heard about Halabja in the media. "They say it happened under the rule of Saddam Hussein," he said. "Poison gas was used there."

Saddam was also charged with the brutal suppression of the Kurd and Shiite rebellions right after the first Gulf War and of killing political and religious figures throughout his rule.

When the judge read the last charge, the invasion of Kuwait, Saddam Hussein became angry insisting that it was his duty as commander-in-chief to defend the Iraqi people from Kuwait which wanted to dramatically lower oil prices.

HUSSEIN (through translator): How can you punish that person while that person given his title has guarantees against being sued?

AMANPOUR: Saddam insulted the Kuwaitis and the judge reprimanded him saying such language would not be permitted in a court of law. He also insulted President George W. Bush saying this was a theater organized by "the criminal Bush to win his campaign."

Saddam also asked the judge who had jurisdiction over him. He asked him whether he was representing the occupation forces and he insisted that the occupation could not strip him of his presidency.

When the judge asked Saddam to sign the court documents showing that he had been read his rights and he had been offered legal counsel, he refused saying that he would not sign without a lawyer.

HUSSEIN (through translator): Please allow me, allow me not to sign until the lawyers are present.

AMANPOUR: That ended the hearing. Saddam stood and was escorted out and back into U.S. military custody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR: And after that there was a short break and then the other 11 members of his former regime, the top members, were brought into the court as well one by one, familiar faces who also face the same judge -- Aaron.

BROWN: All right, Christiane, let me ask maybe three or four really quick questions. How many people were in the room besides the judge and the defendant?

AMANPOUR: I've got to make a quick arithmetic, something like ten.

BROWN: OK, so roughly a dozen. Did he acknowledge their presence at all?

AMANPOUR: He looked around. He made eye contact when he came in. He was stunned to see this bank of television cameras and lights flashing, not usually, that never usually happened in his presidency. It was always very controlled and he did look at us several times as he made wry asides during his exchange with the judge.

BROWN: Is it your best guess that he was generally aware that sovereignty had been passed back to the Iraqis?

AMANPOUR: I think he was a bit confused about who was -- who had jurisdiction over this legal process. He kept asking is it the occupation that's trying me and the judge was trying to explain and he had been told the day before that sovereignty had been transferred and legal custody of him had been transferred but he was still asking quite a lot of questions on that issue.

BROWN: And finally, this will perhaps take a little bit longer, do you have any feeling based on what you saw today as to how he'll behave when the trial, whenever that actually begins, begins? Will it be like Milosevic? Will it be something else? Do you have a guess?

AMANPOUR: Well, I asked specifically the tribunal's executive director about that very fact, will he be allowed to defend himself like Milosevic has been allowed to in The Hague? Will he be allowed to turn any trial into a political platform, a show for himself?

And the executive director Salem Chalabi said they had learned from the tribunal in The Hague and they were not going to allow that but that is still to be hammered out.

We don't know who he will choose as a lawyer but I would say though that the judge today was in control of that process even though Saddam was questioning him. Those 30 minutes had been allocated for Saddam to talk, to ask questions and to have precisely the exchange that he did.

BROWN: It was a heck of a moment to witness, Christiane, I'm envious. Thank you, Christiane Amanpour in Baghdad.

Saddam Hussein arrived at court in shackles but it didn't take him long to hit his stride once the proceedings began, as Christiane has said, as the television rolled the world watched, perhaps no one more closely than those than those who suffered under his regime.

CNN's Brent Sadler tonight with that part of the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Baghdad they call it the trial of the century. This is Act One, Iraqis glued to the proceedings, a fair trial that from the viewpoints of many seems too fair.

"He'll never confess to his crimes" says Taha Majid (ph). "Forget this trial. It's better to execute him now."

The tape played around the world shows Saddam Hussein uncertain at first then pouring scorn on the proceedings, rejecting charges of war crimes and genocide, trying to beat the system.

HUSSEIN (through translator): So that I have to know you are an investigative judge of the Central Court of Iraq. What resolution, what law formed this court?

SADLER: An inaudible reply but Saddam pounces.

HUSSEIN (through translator): Oh, the coalition forces? So you are an Iraqi that -- you are representing the occupying forces?

SADLER: Hida Hassan (ph) and his family wince at the verbal blows on the anonymous young judge. They are Shia Muslims who claim they've lost seven relatives during Saddam's rule. The courtroom drama is making them mad.

"What is this," says Ali Hassan (ph)? "He doesn't look like a criminal. He's more like the judge."

SADLER (on camera): They were expecting to see images befitting a fallen despot cornered by the law but instead they saw Saddam Hussein in court casually dressed, powerless but still provocative.

(voice-over): "The accused should not appear like this," says Hida Hassan. "He should be wearing a prison suit and locked in a cage."

Brother Saud Hassan (ph) is a recruit with the new Iraqi security forces. "He doesn't deserve this much respect. His supporters will be happy to see him in such good shape."

In Awja, Saddam's birthplace, some were carrying his framed picture and chanting in support of him and this was just the opening round of a long legal battle.

Brent Sadler, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Saddam Hussein's court appearance came a day after Iraq took legal custody of the former dictator and just three days after the country emerged from occupation as a sovereign nation, at least officially.

The court itself was formed by the coalition before power changed hands on Monday. That aside, Iraqis are now in charge of running it. And, today the Bush administration was careful to project a respectful distance.

Our Senior White House Correspondent John King tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president watched a snippet of news coverage but said nothing publicly about Saddam Hussein's dramatic day in court. In New Orleans, the vice president recalls his last visit was on the day Saddam's statue was toppled. DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Today, 15 months later, Saddam Hussein stands arraigned in an Iraqi court where he will face the justice he denied to millions.

KING: The Iraqi tribunal accuses Saddam of atrocities against his people and of illegally invading Kuwait back in 1990. The vice president continued to press another charge many accuse the Bush administration of exaggerating, insisting the former Iraqi leader had longstanding ties to al Qaeda and its allies, including providing sanctuary to the terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

CHENEY: The Iraqi regime refused to turn over Zarqawi even when twice being provided with detailed information about his presence in Baghdad.

KING: That Mr. Bush kept to his regular schedule was by design. The White House calls the trial the business of the new Iraqi government and a chance for that government to prove its commitment to the rule of law.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And the president is pleased that Saddam Hussein and his regime leaders are facing justice from the Iraqi people in an Iraqi court.

KING: Not that the White House presumes Saddam innocent until proven guilty.

MCCLELLAN: Saddam Hussein's regime was responsible for the systematic terrorizing, torture, killing and raping of innocent Iraqis.

KING: And the administration dismissed the former Iraqi leader's charge that his trial was all theater only to help the Bush reelection campaign.

MCCLELLAN: Saddam Hussein is going to say all sorts of things.

KING: The war began with a missile strike designed to kill Saddam.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And back in those days, the president made clear on more than one occasion he would not lose any sleep if the Iraqi president lost his life in a U.S. attack. But now, as part of its hands off strategy, the White House says whether Saddam Hussein should get the death penalty is an issue to be resolved by the new Iraqi tribunal -- Aaron.

BROWN: It has been for the White House in many ways an extraordinary week, the handover, the Supreme Court decisions on enemy combatants and the rest and now today's events. On balance do they think it's been a good week?

KING: On balance they do think it has been a good week and not so much even because of today's event but because today's event took place in an Iraq that has not had the widespread violence that the administration anticipated when it handed over power.

The White House believes if you can get a few weeks of that perhaps you can change a political dynamic here in this country that over the past few months, especially since the insurgency and the Abu Ghraib Prison scandal has turned against this president.

BROWN: John, thank you, our Senior White House Correspondent John King tonight.

Saddam Hussein was the undisputed main act in today's court drama but he did have quite a supporting cast. Eleven of his former top lieutenants also went before the judge, Tariq Aziz, Iraq's former foreign minister and deputy prime minister, among them.

Mr. Aziz was one of the most familiar faces in Saddam's regime, the only Christian in the top Ba'ath Party leadership. Today he asked the judge for an Arab non-Iraqi lawyer and a "foreign lawyer" as well. He also argued that he was not personally responsible for any murders.

Ali Hassan al-Majid, widely known as "Chemical Ali," was also charged today for his role in the chemical attacks against the Kurds.

He was out of sight for a time. Then he reappeared the other day and then the familiar but unfamiliar face gave us some pause. Saddam Hussein has been a man we have been seeing but in many ways haven't really known for a very long time. Maybe Iraqis feel that way too that all along he has just been a series of poses, of posters, of faces that changed only subtly at least until recently.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Too dark-eyed, too dark haired, stiff seeming, in uniform or business suit, military head gear or Fedora hat, somehow at second glance you always wondered, didn't you, was that really the same Saddam as in the last picture alleged to be of him?

Remember all that talk about how many doubles he had? It was that kind of face, disturbingly different in a lot of little ways from month to month and year to year, the same figure but then again maybe not.

He was in the pictures, and this of course is a dictator's trick, not a man so much as a presentation, squared off, puffed up, a flesh- covered sculpture, something intended to be seen from a great distance on a balcony, a figure head.

Until in defeat pulled out of his hole, he fell apart, grew jowls, gray hair, a scruffy beard. But now in court something of the too dark-eye, too dark haired figure head seems to be returning. You can see from time to time that inside the defendant there still lives a dictator.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We talked earlier about how restrained the White House reaction was to the Saddam hearing today. This was, as John King said, the Iraqi show. That is an important message for the United States to send, even if it is not entirely true. Whatever plays out in Iraq, the trial of Saddam and the others will have many Iraqi actors but in some respects the script was made in America.

Here's CNN's Bob Franken.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN (voice-over): The cliche, perception is reality, has real meaning here. The United States must battle the perception that instead of an Iraqi legal proceeding, the U.S. is running the show.

ADAM ERELI, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: This is an Iraqi process managed by Iraqis according to Iraqi laws, according to Iraqi procedures. It is Iraqis judging Iraqis.

FRANKEN: But the Americans are heavily involved. U.S. lawyers helped draft the rules for the war crimes tribunal. The United States is spending $75 million and has about 50 advisers from the Justice Department, FBI, other U.S. agencies teaching Iraqis how to gather evidence and run the prosecution. Some might regard that as an inherent contradiction but the U.S. wants to make sure Saddam is convicted only after what the world perceives as a fair trial.

WILLIAM COHEN, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY: This should not have the appearance or the reality of a kangaroo court.

FRANKEN: The lawyer who represented Manuel Noriega, deposed by the United States as Panama's leaders and still in a U.S. prison, believes fairness demands that Saddam get an international trial.

FRANK RUINIO, FORMER NORIEGA CRIMINAL ATTORNEY: I think it would be most important that the trial be moved to the World Court at The Hague.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The criminal tribunal for the former Yugoslavia is now in session.

FRANKEN: That's where deposed Bosnian leader Slobodan Milosevic has been facing war crime charges. Former State Department lawyer Paul Williams, who worked on that case, says this is different.

PAUL WILLIAMS, AMERICAN UNIV. LAW SCHOOL: They're coming into their own sovereignty post Saddam and it's going to be very, very important for the interim government, for the people of Iraq to demonstrate that they have control over the former regime.

FRANKEN: A former U.S. war crimes ambassador thinks Saddam should have been allowed an attorney at his arraignment, even though Iraqi law did not require that.

DAVID SCHEFFER, FMR. U.S. AMBASSADOR FOR WAR CRIMES: They have to be extremely careful and lean over backwards to ensure that he has all of the due process rights of a defendant now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FRANKEN: If the appearance of legitimacy is so important, then in the process of discrediting Saddam Hussein the new government leaders must be careful not to discredit themselves -- Aaron.

BROWN: Bob, thank you, Bob Franken who's in Washington tonight.

We'll have more on the tribunal and more on Saddam's day in court on the program a little bit later.

Also coming up we'll take a journey to the center of Saturn's rings and we have the pictures to prove it. This is something when you think about how far these pictures have come.

After that why some Republican faithful are hitting the campaign trail for Ralph Nader, my goodness.

From New York, and there it is, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's not news to tell you there are rings around the planet Saturn. We all knew that. But seeing those rings up close today after a remarkable seven year journey was a reminder that even in our age of cynicism there are still things we marvel at, things that take our breath away. Cassini did that today.

Here's CNN's Mile O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Talk about a ringside seat, the Cassini spacecraft has nestled into Saturn's orbit giving scientists an out of this world main event.

ED WEILER, NASA ASSOC. ADMIN.: Citizens of Earth, I would like to present the majestic rings of Saturn.

O'BRIEN: Nearly seven years after it left Earth, Cassini, the largest, most elaborate, most expensive planetary probe ever, twice shot a gap in Saturn's rocky rings and ended up safe and sound orbiting the solar system's second largest planet. A rock the size of a marble could have taken the $3 billion craft out.

The celebration came after a tense 96-minute engine firing that slowed down the gangly six-ton spacecraft just enough to feel Saturn's pull.

CHARLES ELACHI, DIRECTOR, JET PROPULSION LAB: Probably this was the longest 90 minutes that I've ever spent. I never realized how long is 90 minutes until today.

O'BRIEN: As it stitched between the rings, the craft was programmed to aim its cameras right at them. The rings are made mostly of ice, possibly the remnants of a moon that came too close to Saturn and was ripped apart. Scientists are fascinated by the rings because, among other things, they resemble planets in formation.

ELACHI: So, in a sense it gives us a picture of how most likely the whole solar system might have formed taken in miniature.

O'BRIEN: Ring scientists, yes there are such things, are focusing on the distinct bands that appear to be cleared away by some sort of celestial Zamboni. It is quite likely some of these are created by previously unknown moons of Saturn.

KEVIN GRAZIER, SCIENTIST: There's a very good chance that the moon count will climb in the very near future.

O'BRIEN (on camera): As interesting and beautiful as the planet may be, Saturn's moons may provide the most scientific pay dirt. The highlight could come in January when the spacecraft will send a tiny probe onto the surface of Titan, a Saturn moon that is the size of a planet.

Scientists believe it has an atmosphere which mimics Earth's as it was when it was a toddler. The probe could provide a distant mirror to our own origins here.

Miles O'Brien, CNN, Pasadena, California.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That is something.

Back on earth, they say that all is fair in love and politics and, if that is true, what we're about to report is fair. Whether it is also right is something else again. That will depend on your own politics, as much as anything else.

But, if nothing else, this story proves again the old adage about politics making for strange bedfellows. In this case, Ralph Nader and supporters of George W. Bush.

Here's CNN's Judy Woodruff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HOWARD DEAN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think Ralph Nader's candidacy is the single biggest danger to the Kerry candidacy.

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): It may be the only thing Howard Dean and Republicans can agree on. Ralph Nader, political maverick, could siphon votes from John Kerry and possibly cost Democrats the White House again.

Nader is on the ballot in six states now, Michigan, Mississippi, Colorado, Kansas, Montana, oh yes and Florida too. He was hoping a Green Party endorsement would spread his reach across at least 23 states but the Greens threw their support elsewhere and now some conservatives are working on behalf of the long time liberal.

MATT KIBBE, PRESIDENT, CITIZENS FOR A SOUND ECONOMY: You know frankly our strategy was to split the liberal base.

WOODRUFF: In Oregon, the Citizens Committee for a Sound Economy, a Washington-based anti-tax group, and the Oregon Family Council, an organization of Christian conservatives have launched an all out effort to get Nader on the ballot.

KIBBE: What we are doing is asking citizens of Oregon to show up and participate in the political debate about who will be on the ballot for president.

WOODRUFF: In 2000, Al Gore squeaked by George W. Bush in the state by fewer than 7,000 votes. Polls show this year's margin is razor thin and Nader could make the difference in Oregon but the conservative groups are thinking bigger.

KIBBE: We're looking at all the swing states.

WOODRUFF: A Bush-Cheney spokeswoman spoke glowingly of the effort. She said no campaign staffers were involved but wouldn't rule out that Bush-Cheney volunteers helped. Democrats, for their part, are crying foul.

JANO CABRERA, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Republican are doing this because they want to help elect Bush into office and they're using Ralph Nader as a means to achieve an end.

WOODRUFF: And what does Nader think? Well, he's angry at Democrats who he says are using dirty tricks to dissuade Oregonians from signing his petitions.

RALPH NADER (I), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They want to censor and stifle and sabotage the opportunity for tens of thousands of Oregonian voters to vote for the candidates of their choice.

WOODRUFF: The DNC says it's anyone's right to try to convince voters not to bond with Ralph Nader.

Judy Woodruff, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: One other campaign note tonight. Today, New Mexico's Governor Bill Richardson told Senator John Kerry he no longer wants to be considered as a possible running mate. Governor Richardson said he wants to keep a promise he made to New Mexico's voters to serve out his full four-year term.

Coming up now on NEWSNIGHT, inside the courtroom where Saddam Hussein got his first taste of justice today, what the world did not see. We'll talk with John Burns of "The New York Times."

And later, the dangerous legacy of one of the most shameful chapters in American medical history, how to heal the wounds of (unintelligible), a break first.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There's been some moving things around as people have become available to us tonight.

John Burns of "The New York Times" was in the courtroom today with Saddam Hussein and perhaps a dozen or so others. And John, who has filed wonderful work out of Iraq, joins us now from Baghdad. It's always good to see him.

John, in your briefing, you describe at one point Saddam as seemingly a broken man and then later you say he is full of defiance. Is there a contradiction in that?

JOHN BURNS, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": I don't think there is.

Aaron, I'm not a psychologist. You're not. But I would guess that they would have a field day looking at the tape of this. This is a man whose mood shifts were rapid and almost violent over the 26 minutes that he was in that courtroom, at times depressed, at times almost hopeless, I thought, a shadow of himself and then, within a few minutes, defiant, angry, contemptuous, and then back to the kind of sense of hopelessness and deflation.

I don't really know what that means, but I guess it would have something to do with the loss of everything that mattered to him.

BROWN: Yes.

Were the mood shifts tied to specifically what was going on in the court at the time? Or did he just seem to be riding this roller- coaster?

BURNS: My impression was that he came into the courtroom and he was kind of startled by the light. Remember, he'd been isolated for a very long time. He'd been in complete isolation since he was captured on December 13. And God knows how long he'd been in that spider hole before that.

He seemed to be kind of like a hunted man in an alien land when he came into that room. He looked about him in a startled way. He seemed startled to see Westerners there, odd because, of course, he's been under American military guard. He looked over in the direction of Christiane Amanpour, myself and Peter Jennings with considerable dismay, I thought, and contempt. And there was a U.S. Navy admiral there looking like he was off to the golf course in tan chinos and a yellow short-sleeved sport shirt. Goodness knows what he made of that.

So I think it took him a while to get dialed in and to find his pitch. And eventually, about halfway through his 26 minutes, he did get dialed in. And then he was the president of Iraq, as he sees it.

BROWN: Yes.

BURNS: And a great deal of time was spent insisting that the judge recognize that.

BROWN: Did the judge ever take the bait, as it were?

BURNS: No. As a matter of fact, the real star of the occasion for my money was not Saddam Hussein. We've seen him do this routine before. As a matter of fact, when he came out of the spider hole, we saw the "I am the president of Iraq" routine. And that wears a little bit thin a little bit fast.

But the judge was remarkable. This is a man of less than 40 doing one of the most difficult jobs anywhere, certainly a lot more dangerous than my job. And he was steadfast. He was cool. He didn't rise to the bait. He didn't get angry. When Saddam interrupted, he cut him off. He moved the process along. He gave Saddam just enough rope, but not too much.

And I thought he was a real star. We're not allowed to name this man and for obvious reasons. But he's a brave fellow. And he's a competent man.

BROWN: John, good to see you. It's one of those -- we all get into this business and we talk about wanting a box seat to the great events. You had a box seat to one of the great events. Thank you very much, John Burns of "The New York Times."

Now back to the question of the tribunal itself.

We're joined now in Chicago by DePaul University professor of law, Cherif Bassiouni, who, among other things, is president of the International Human Rights Law Institute and who helped draw up the original sketch, you might say, for what is about to unfold, this tribunal that Saddam Hussein is facing. And it is good to see the professor tonight.

Is this still very much a work in progress? Are they to some degree making up the rules as they go?

M. CHERIF BASSIOUNI, DEPAUL UNIVERSITY: I think it is a work in progress. In fact, the rules of procedure and evidence are still in draft form.

There are also a lot of bugs in the way the statute was originally drafted. There was just too much U.S. influence by people from various government agencies in the U.S. who really didn't know much about the Iraqi legal system and who thought they would blend what they know of the American legal system with the Iraqi legal system. And the two really don't mesh.

So there is going to be a little bit of fine-tuning that's going to be necessary before the statute under which the trial is going to proceed in a few months is going to be adequate.

BROWN: Can you give me an example of one of these little glitches that you just talked about?

BASSIOUNI: Well, there are a number of glitches. The Iraqi legal system is similar to the French inquisitorial legal system. And it is completely different from our adversary, accusatorial system. In that system, they have something called the investigative judge or the judge of instruction, which functions a little bit like our grand jury, but more than that.

It is that person who goes and collects the evidence. And so we don't have a process by which there's a prosecutor who goes and gets the evidence and fights it out in court against the defense counsel. There's an impartial judge who gathers the evidence, makes his findings and submits them to the court.

The court then decides whether it will accept the findings of the investigative magistrate or whether it wants to reopen some of these questions. And it's really only at that stage that the defense has its role to play at the trial level.

BROWN: Professor, just in the half-a-minute that we have left, what would you say the risks are for the tribunal itself?

BASSIOUNI: Well, I think the biggest risk at this point is to have too many members of the Department of Justice trying to giftwrap a case American-style with American fingerprints all over it, and particularly if the case is going to be a historic case, a la Nuremberg, where they're going to try to show the misdeeds of the regime for the last 30 years, opening an opportunity for Saddam to say to the world that all of these governments, including the United States, aided and abetted.

And that will turn the whole thing into a big farce.

BROWN: Professor, very nice to have you with us tonight. Thank you, sir.

BASSIOUNI: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, they were poor, they were black and their diseases went untreated for decades, all because of a government study. Undoing the damage of the Tuskegee experiment today, or at least an attempt to.

And later, an insider's look at Al-Jazeera. Called the Osama bin Laden network by some in this country, it's become the most important news network in the Arab world.

We'll take a break. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: At the White House today, President Bush marked tomorrow's 40th anniversary of the Civil Rights Act. In 1964, the landmark law began to move the country down the path toward equal rights. It did not, however, stop injustice overnight. Consider this. On the very day -- the very day -- that law was signed, one of the most shameful undertakings in the history of medicine was still unfolding. The victims of the Tuskegee syphilis experiment were poor African-American men in the rural South. What happened to them would shatter the trust for generations of African-Americans. In Alabama this week, an effort made to rebuild the trust.

Here's CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It seems unbelievable when you hear about it now, that, for decades, government doctors recruited illiterate black sharecroppers with syphilis by telling them they'd take care of them, but, instead, deliberately never gave them penicillin, the cure for the disease.

HERMAN SHAW, TUSKEGEE SYPHILIS STUDY SURVIVOR: They didn't even tell us anything, just go on treating us just like dumb pigs, or guinea pigs.

COHEN: The U.S. Public Health Service, along with local doctors and nurses, intentionally allowed these men to suffer the ravages of syphilis just so they could study the natural course of the disease.

As is common when the disease goes untreated, some of the men went blind. For some of them, the disease attacked the brain and the heart and many of them died. While the government never told the men they had syphilis, many others knew what was going on. Doctors frequently published study results in medical journals and discussed them at conferences.

The experiment went on for 40 years. The studies continued even after the Nuremberg Code was written, a set of regulations for preventing abuse of human study subjects that grew out of the Nazi medical experiments. Then, in 1972, a whistle-blower from within the Public Health Service leaked the story to the press. Outraged followed.

And because of Tuskegee, for the first time, the U.S. adopted strict rules for medical research and clinical trials. But trust had already been shattered by decades of betrayal. How to overcome the legacy of Tuskegee is now the challenge. Many leaders in the African- American community say much time has already been lost. It took 25 years for a president to apologize.

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What the United States government did was shameful, and I am sorry.

COHEN: This week, 32 years after the experiment ended, as part of an effort to rebuild that trust, the government has come back to Tuskegee.

CLAUDE ALLEN, DEPUTY HHS SECRETARY: How do we go about getting more and better health care to communities of color, but also getting participation from communities of color in our research activities?

COHEN: Some say this week's conference is a start, but still not nearly enough minorities join medical studies. For example, just 5 percent of the study subjects in cancer clinical trials are African- American, even though they make up 12 percent of the population. Lack of participation means drugs sometimes are developed without being fully tested on minorities.

BILL JENKINS, MOREHOUSE SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: All too often, we produce a medication by studying a very narrow group like white males, only to find out that that medication may not only be unhelpful to other populations; it may actually be dangerous to other populations.

COHEN: According to the Food and Drug Administration, studies have shown that African-Americans respond differently than others to certain medicines, such as those for high-blood pressure and hepatitis.

FRED GRAY, ATTORNEY: The circle in the middle represents the memorial tile.

COHEN: Fred Gray, a lawyer for the men who survived the study, says he hopes this memorial, still in the planning stages, will help heal wounds by bearing witness to the men who were duped into thinking they were getting care when, in fact, they were just being used as guinea pigs.

Elizabeth Cohen, Tuskegee, Alabama.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, often criticized by the American government, Al-Jazeera is more than a hit in the Arab world. Ahead, a look at a fascinating documentary about the controversial news network.

And we'll wrap it up tonight, as we always do, with morning papers. So there's plenty to do here still tonight.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Al-Jazeera, the Arabic satellite news operation some in this country call the Osama bin Laden network, in truth, it is a whole lot more complicated than that. That the network has become an important lens through which the Arab world views events is indisputable. That it is often controversial is certain.

The network is the subject of a fascinating documentary called "Control Room." In a moment, its director.

First, a taste of the film.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "CONTROL ROOM")

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They bombed this place in northern Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pulverized, dead bodies en masse. I mean, why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got the pictures and we show them. Of course, we get grief from the Americans for showing these pictures, because we will be inciting rebellion and all the -- basically instigating anti-American sentiments.

I'm sorry. They can't have their cake and eat it. I mean, yes, OK, the most powerful nation is America, I agree. You can defeat everybody, I agree. You can crush everybody, I agree. But don't ask us to love it as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We're joined now by the director of "Control Room," Jehane Noujaim. She's an Egyptian-American filmmaker.

It is quite a piece of work. Nicely done.

JEHANE NOUJAIM, DIRECTOR, "CONTROL ROOM": Thank you.

BROWN: Does Al-Jaz, do they think of themselves as coming at this with a point of view or do they think of themselves as essentially objective reporters covering the story?

NOUJAIM: I think they think of themselves as coming with a point of view. They try to be objective. And the way they do that is try to bring people from the opposite side of the debate on always.

But everybody's got a point of view. The war was happening in their backyard. They had many reporters who were Iraqi. So you see a lot of emotion in the film. When I was filming, you saw a translator shooing away Bush while he was translating.

BROWN: As an organization, do they have an organizational distrust for the American government?

NOUJAIM: I don't think they have a distrust for the government. I mean, I don't think that they were very supportive of this U.S. administration or their -- or the war against Iraq in a general sense. But I think that they're doing a lot to educate the Arab community about democracy.

I mean, the interesting thing during the Abu Ghraib prison scandals was that they showed four hours a day of this questioning of Rumsfeld. Now, these prison abuses happen all across the Arab world. Yet Arabs know that their leaders are not being put on trial like this. So this was an example of democracy in action.

BROWN: And I think in the way that sometimes Al-Jazeera is portrayed in the very black-and-white sort of way, one of the things that goes unsaid too often is that they can be very hard on these Arab regimes across the Middle East that are horribly autocratic. NOUJAIM: They've been kicked out of a bunch of Arab countries. Their reporters have been jailed. Growing up in Egypt, I always knew them as kind of the bad boys of news. So I was curious to find out who were these people behind this channel, which is why I went and filmed the guys at Al-Jazeera.

BROWN: Why should Americans see this?

NOUJAIM: I think it shifts your perspective. I think we have very -- sometimes, we get a very, very narrow perspective on things and we think that that's fact.

People have seen this film and come up to us kind of crying afterwards, very, very emotionally moved by it and feeling like they're seeing a whole different version of reality. And it is. It is looking at this war from a completely different perspective, which is the Jazeera perspective and the Arab perspective.

BROWN: Do you think pictures have more power -- this almost sounds condescending, the way I'm about to ask it -- more power in the Arab world than they do in the Western world?

NOUJAIM: No. I mean, look at the prison photos from Abu Ghraib. That sparked huge debate here.

BROWN: But they show more graphic and powerful pictures than we would ever show. Is that simply a cultural difference?

NOUJAIM: That's a good question, because people always talked about the Spanish networks, how they covered September 11 and how the image was more graphic.

BROWN: Yes.

NOUJAIM: Yet, at the same time, I think this is what they were seeing on the ground. They had a lot of Iraqi reporters on the ground. And so they were seeing the civilians in the hospitals.

And, yes, images have a huge effect, I think, here and there. Do they show more graphics and why are they showing more graphics? That's a good question. Why is the U.S. not showing more graphic pictures? There was generally a sense at Al-Jazeera that the U.S. government was afraid that these photographs and images that we actually show in our film, people were very worried that they would get back to the U.S. and have a similar reaction as what happened in Vietnam, that people would react to this.

BROWN: The film is called "Control Room." Best of luck to you. Thanks for coming by.

NOUJAIM: Thanks. They can check it out at ControlRoomMovie.com, where it is opening. That's my pitch.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: You did it well. Thank you. Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers, not much time for this, all Saddam headlines. The pictures are as cool as the words.

"The Guardian," British paper. "I Am Saddam Hussein, the President of Iraq." Look at the picture.

"The Times," also a British paper. "Saddam Confronts Destiny." I like that picture there.

"The Washington Times" uses a series of pictures. "Saddam Charged With War Crimes. Ex-Dictator Defiant, Angry at Arraignment." And they put four different pictures up there.

One of those also appears in "The Atlanta Journal-Constitution," but they use the word feisty, "Saddam Feisty at Court Hearing."

Where's the -- I need the San Antonio paper? You got it? No, I have it somewhere. Where is it? Where? I love this one. "Trash- Talking Saddam Sneers at Iraqi Court." That's the "San Antonio Express-News" lead on them. They kind of show that.

"I Am Saddam Hussein, the President of Iraq" is "The Oregonian" out in Portland, Oregon.

The weather tomorrow in Chicago is nice. But that's not the word, believe me. The word is "yippee."

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Have a great weekend and good night for all of us.

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