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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Terror Attacks at Political Conventions or Politics as Usual?

Aired July 08, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again. I'm beginning to think that many of you are more cynical than I.
I was flipping through the e-mails the program received today and there were many, and I do mean many, who believe that the timing of today's terror warning was designed to simply distract from the announcement two days ago of the Kerry-Edwards ticket.

These notes were almost reflexive. If the administration says it, it must be untrue, or it must simply be a way to win the election. That was the theme.

We'll look at the politics of this tonight, but first a couple of thoughts. I, too, wish these warnings came with more information.

But I also know that senators who did get more information, many of them with no particular love for the administration, came away concerned not about the politics, but about the possibility.

And one more thought: Madrid. That happened. People died. Lots of them. Even with the lack of information, I'll take whatever value the warning has over nothing at all. And it is the warning, of course, that leads "The Whip."

CNN's Kelli Arena in Washington tonight. Kelli, a headline from you.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, some officials say the concern level is as high as it was just after the September 11th attacks. But as you mentioned, critics abound, and some say without offering specifics, terror warnings do more harm than good.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you. Next, the political dimension. Not hard to find, of course, in an election year, normal or not.

From the White House tonight, Suzanne Malveaux. Suzanne, a headline.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, with no specifics about where, when, or how these terrorist attacks might occur, some Democrats cried foul, accusing the Bush administration of playing politics with homeland security -- also engaging in fear-mongering -- but the Bush administration says it's not so.

BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.

On to Iraq. More turmoil and a stepped up search for one of the men behind it.

Brent Sadler with us again tonight. Brent, a headline from you.

BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a deadly mortar attack kills five more U.S. troops in Samarra, north of Baghdad, amid growing signs, say the authorities here, that the insurgency is not only growing in strength and support, but is turning more Islamic fundamentalists in nature, encouraging more Iraqis to step forward and defeat terrorism.

I'll have that story.

BROWN: Brent, thank you, and finally to the Pentagon and the strange mystery surrounding the Marine who vanished from Iraq and resurfaced in Lebanon.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent gets the call on this one. So, Jamie, a headline from you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, Marine Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun is alive and well and safe in U.S. hands, but his trouble may just be starting.

Military investigators are suspicious that his capture may have been faked, and he's under investigation for possibly being a deserter. A crime that, by the way, carries a potential death penalty.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight -- he once had the new economy at his feet -- today he had handcuffs on his wrists.

Ken Lay's reversal of fortune.

Plus, you've heard the saying behind every good man is an even better woman. Tonight we'll take a look at two -- the candidate's wives.

And what's black and white and usually shows up around here at 10:55 Eastern? Morning papers. That, too, tonight. All that and more in the hour to come.

We begin tonight with the latest terror alert and something Congresswoman Jane Harmon on the Intelligence Committee said about it today. I watched Tom Ridge dance, she said, around the color yellow. Meaning if the threat is as serious as the administration says it is, why not raise the threat level?

It is not an unfair question, nor is it a question without an answer. But tonight the color code remains the same, and the nation's law enforcement agencies and the people they protect are again warned.

We have two reports tonight beginning first with CNN's Kelli Arena. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): It was a familiar refrain, but still chilling.

More warnings about al Qaeda's intent to again hit the United States.

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Credible reporting now indicates that al Qaeda is moving forward with its plans to carry out a large-scale attack in the United States in an effort to disrupt our democratic process.

ARENA: Officials say that's exactly what al Qaeda believes it did in Spain. But Ridge says the intelligence about an attack in the United States offers no specific time, place, or method.

And he says there are no plans to raise the national threat level. Critics suggest without specifics, public warnings do not help the public.

MICHAEL GREENBERGER, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: They should avoid the dramatic monthly press conference and have a continuous dialogue with the American people on a much more non-threatening level that keeps them appraised on a regular basis as to what's being done.

ARENA: Counter-terrorism officials say there is intelligence suggesting terrorists are looking to hit transportation systems, like they did in Madrid.

And based on past overseas plots, intelligence analysts are particularly concerned about truck bombs, which could be used to target tunnels and bridges.

Officials also say al Qaeda remains very interested in aviation, either targeting aircraft or using it as a weapon.

RIDGE: These are not conjectures or mythical statements we are making. These are pieces of information that we could trace comfortably to sources that we deem to be credible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Senior intelligence officials say the U.S. is putting al Qaeda under heavy pressure along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, where top al Qaeda leaders are believed to be.

Officials say intelligence shows those leaders, including Osama bin Laden, continue to give orders directing attacks -- Aaron.

BROWN: Do they give us any hints at all about where their information is coming from?

ARENA: They say from a variety of sources and actually that's one of the keys here, Aaron, is that the sources are corroborating each other, whether they are human sources, detainees, intercepts, a variety of sources that are giving information that is very similar and that's what's leading to the concern.

BROWN: All right. Let me ask a difficult one here. You've covered a bunch of these.

And you've got a great eye for all of this. Walk out of that briefing today with a sense that -- a sense of what? That this is the real deal?

ARENA: I do think that it's the real deal, Aaron. I believe that -- that the concern that the officials are expressing to me is real.

But the frustration is also real, Aaron, because I have had dinners and drinks with many of these intelligence officials who are truly frustrated that there isn't anything that's more actionable. That there isn't any intelligence they can really get their hands around and move on.

As you know there's a great effort underway to try to determine if there are any al Qaeda operatives here in the United States and to identify them. There's a task force that was set up but still nothing specific.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you. Kelli Arena is in Washington tonight.

The alert played out as lawmakers in the House were deciding on a bill to scale back certain controversial elements of the Patriot Act. The measure failed, but only after Republican leaders in the House extended the voting deadline and used that extra time to bring ten wayward Republicans back into line.

As the voting dragged on, Democrats chanted "shame, shame, shame" across the aisle. It was an exceptionally bitter political moment in a pretty bitter place, the House. For three years into the new normal, however, perhaps it is nothing new.

Here's CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): With the elections just four months away, today's terrorist warning immediately became political fodder for Republicans and Democrats competing to win the upper hand on this volatile issue.

Some Democrats questioned the timing of the announcement. Congressman Robert Wexler of Florida released this statement saying: "Given the fact that the administration chose not to raise the threat level, one cannot help but question whether their aim was to deflect attention from the Kerry-Edwards ticket during their inaugural week."

The White House denied it was using the terrorist update to bolster its wartime president during the election season.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have an obligation, regardless of the time of year, or what year we are in, to protect the American people and keep them informed about what we are doing to provide for their safety and security.

MALVEAUX: The Kerry campaign used Ridge's remarks to argue the Bush administration wasn't doing enough. It stated, "Our crucial intelligence and military resources are overstretched abroad and our homeland security effort at home is under-funded and poorly managed."

Democrats briefed by Ridge agreed the al Qaeda threat was serious and credible, but they seized on the warning to blame Republicans for blocking homeland-related legislation in favor of social issues, such as an amendment to ban gay marriage.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: We have two weeks left before we are in recess. Do you think al Qaeda is taking a recess? You know, right now as we speak, in cafes in Europe and in tents in North Africa and in caves in Afghanistan they are plotting against us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now Republican senators shot back saying it's the Democrats who are playing politics with homeland security and White House aides say when it comes to issuing these terrorist threats it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario -- Aaron.

BROWN: Suzanne, on the question of the color code and the terror alert level, can you address the question why it was not raised?

MALVEAUX: Well, they simply say they don't have the specifics and they didn't have the kind of information that was necessary to raise it to that particular level.

There are a lot of people, of course, who are asking -- you know -- what are the requirements, the specific requirements. That is not something that the White House particularly shares, but the Bush administration officials we talked to believe that they are confident. They believe it's the right thing to do to get out the kind of information at least this information that they did have today.

BROWN: Suzanne, thank you. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.

As one of the administration's leading experts on counter- terrorism, Fran Townsend, deals mainly in the realm of policy. On days like today, however, she is also a point person to some extent.

Policy and politics coexist. We talked with her late this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I know just from conversations with homeland security people, that you're always battling a perception that there's a political motivation to these announcements.

So why the timing of this one now?

FRANCES TOWNSEND, WHITE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: You know, Aaron, it's -- or I find the question interesting because in point of fact, what happens is we go -- the timing of announcements is dictated by the actions of bad guys and by our access to intelligence.

And when those two come together, we make public announcements. Secretary Ridge talked to the public in April. Attorney General Ashcroft and Director Mueller did again in May.

There was a public announcement -- there was a law enforcement announcement, rather, just before the Fourth of July.

As we get information that is credible and something we believe we can act on, and we can use the public's help in thwarting an attack, then we make it public.

BROWN: So we can assume that we're not dealing with the same set of facts that we were dealing with in July or in May. That there is information more current than that that you are responding to?

TOWNSEND: The answer is we get more intelligence every day, and you know, as the saying goes, as we put more dots on the map the fact is a picture emerges that has become more and more concerning. Senator Daschle described the brief as sobering and I think that's a fair assessment.

BROWN: And I think a number of senators have said similar things about the briefing. They obviously heard more, and I think this is another frustration that comes not just from nosy reporters -- it's a limited amount you were able to say. Can you not put any more meat on this bone?

TOWNSEND: Well, look -- what we do when we get threat information is we have to protect sources and methods or otherwise we lose our window into the threat and it's that window that helps us protect Americans.

What we do, you know, is we go back and we know a great deal about al Qaeda's method of operation, their targeting -- what their targeting strategy is. And we go back now based on the intelligence we know and we ask Americans to help us collect additional information and state and local police.

To report suspicious activity at sites, at failed target sites. (AUDIO GAP) explosive devices. Think about the World Trade Center in '93 -- they went back to that. So our first priority is to go to known methods of attack and known targeting locations and to immediately begin to look at how we can better secure those locations and take additional protective measures.

BROWN: And just finally there is -- I think we all of us who spend any time on this issue have a sense sometimes that its really a needle in a haystack. It's a huge country; there are thousands and thousands of targets finding the right one and the right person.

How do you combat a sense of futility in protecting them all?

TOWNSEND: Well, the answer is you do it in a target -- targeted and focused way. You know -- it's -- the target -- the phrase we use here in risk management but the fact is what we do is we rely on those people, particularly state and local law enforcement who were the first individuals who are likely to see anomalies. Suspicious behavior. And report that into us so that we can make an assessment about where we need to focus our efforts.

BROWN: Ms. Townsend, good to have you with us. Thank you.

TOWNSEND: Thanks so much, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That was Fran Townsend; we talked with her from the White House earlier today.

Iraq next. A number of explosions heard in Baghdad tonight. North of the capitol rebels took aim at an Iraqi National Guard base in the city of Samarra, killing one Iraqi guardsman and five American soldiers.

From Baghdad tonight, CNN's Brent Sadler.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): This deadly mortar attack is the latest indication, say Iraqi officials, that the insurgency is growing in strength and support, in the wake of a failed U.S. offensive to take Fallujah in April.

Since then, the city has inadvertently fallen under the influence of Taliban-style extremists. Providing shelter it's claimed by U.S. and Iraqi officials for this man: Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, the most wanted terror suspect in Iraq.

MOWAFF AL-RUBAIE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Fallujah is not going to be a safe haven for these terrorists and nowhere in Iraq will be a safe haven for these terrorists.

SADLER: American jets have bombed Zarqawi's alleged hideouts in Fallujah west of Baghdad, missing their man. But now it seems homegrown Iraqi vigilantes calling themselves the rescue group are also on his trail, threatening to eliminate Zarqawi if he stays in Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Well, the government here says its not actively encouraging vigilante groups to take the law into their own hands, but it is being officially recognized here that more Iraqis are doing much more to help their own intelligence services, especially in the 12 days since the former U.S.-led coalition handed sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government.

Intelligence they hope will only get better as time goes on -- Aaron.

BROWN: What is the evidence of that on the ground? Any?

SADLER: Yes, just take three days ago when the U.S. struck the Zarqawi -- suspected Zarqawi safe house in Fallujah. That strike, we were told, was based directly on Iraqi intelligence on the ground. More people, new people, coming forward -- Aaron.

BROWN: And just briefly in "The Whip," you said there is some sense or some evidence, some feeling that the insurgency itself is growing. What is the evidence of that?

SADLER: Well, Iraqi officials say that places like Fallujah, places like Samarra, the very hotbed, the center of this raging insurgency are showing that there is a tendency for more foreign fighters to be involved, better coordination between the x-regimes and foreign fighters and Islamic groups on the ground here in Iraq.

And they say what your seeing on the ground now with the kind of targeting that's taking place shows better coordination and more determination.

BROWN: Brent, thank you. Brent Sadler who is in Baghdad.

The saga of the missing Marine entered a new chapter today, 18 days after he disappeared. This would normally be the moment when the hero, having been spared a horrible death, prepares for his shining moment in the limelight.

Instead, it looks like he's about to spend some time answering tough questions. From the Pentagon tonight, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Sources say before Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun got to the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, it took three tries to arrange a meeting. But officials say eventually Hassoun turned himself over voluntarily.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Made contact with us and arranged a place to meet and we went to pick him up and brought him back to the Embassy.

MCINTYRE: Hassoun is now under military control and faces tough questions from Navy criminal investigators over why he left his unit in Fallujah, Iraq June 20 and what help he got to travel to Tripoli, Lebanon 500 miles away through Syria 18 days later.

BRIG. GENERAL DAVID RODRIQUEZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY STAFF COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: The investigation is ongoing and we don't know how he got there or what went on between the time that he was reported missing from his unit until he got into Lebanon.

MCINTYRE: At first, sources say the Marine Corps suspected Hassoun, an Arabic speaker working as a military truck driver, wanted to desert to Lebanon where he was born and still had family.

Now, Pentagon sources say investigators are also looking into whether the video, purporting to show Hassoun captured and threatened with beheading by an obscure Islamic militant group, was real or a hoax staged to cover his desertion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have nothing for you -- we'll just let this situation unfold and when we've got something to say we'll say it.

MCINTYRE: And in Tripoli, a gunfight erupted outside the shop of a relative of Corporal Hassoun, apparently after members of Hassoun's clan were taunted as alleged American collaborators.

Two people were killed, three wounded, none members of the Hassoun family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And, Pentagon officials say soon Corporal Hassoun will be moved to a U.S. military base in Germany where he will be given a full medical evaluation and a complete debriefing as well.

While the Pentagon is cautioning against any speculation, if it turns out that Hassoun is charged with desertion, it is a serious offense that is punishable technically by death -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, they may discourage speculation but it won't stop me. What if any evidence or what reason is there to believe that the kidnapping might have been a hoax?

MCINTYRE: Well, first of all, they have some evidence, and they haven't disclosed what this is, that when Hassoun left his post in Fallujah back on July 19th -- I mean June 19th -- June 20th -- that he had no intention of coming back.

They haven't said why they believe that, but -- so -- they initially thought he was deserting and going to Lebanon.

Then the fact that he was able to get through Syria and into Lebanon without any trouble indicates he may have had some help, something he couldn't have done by himself.

So they're just really wondering about this hostage thing, particularly because there was the claim that he was executed and then he wasn't executed. It's just all very suspicious and they're looking for him to provide some answers and if he doesn't have some good answers he's probably going to be in some trouble.

BROWN: He may be in some trouble even if he does and just -- I think I know the answer to this -- but do we have any idea what he has been saying?

MCINTYRE: Well, apparently he hasn't said much yet although they're anxious to get him out of the country because he does have dual citizenship in both Lebanon because he was born there and the United States.

And they want there to be any extradition questions. He voluntarily turned himself in. They'd like to quickly get him to Germany where there's no extradition issues and then perhaps continue the interrogation there.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, it's a long way down from the top of the corporate ladder. Today, Enron's Ken Lay officially took that fall.

And just when you thought he'd disappeared from public life, wait a minute. This is President Clinton we're talking about.

We'll take a break first. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Country was still reeling from the 9/11 attacks when a string of giant corporate implosions began, starting with Enron.

In the two and a half years since its spectacular collapse, federal investigators have been working their way up the failed company's corporate ladder, building cases against his former executives.

Today, rumor became fact as Enron's former chairman and CEO, Kenneth Lay, was indicted 11 criminal charges. From Texas tonight, CNN's Ed Lavendera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVENDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With Ken Lay in handcuffs, prosecutors have reached the mountaintop of Enron's corporate ladder.

ANDREW WEISSMANN, ENRON TASK FORCE: Lay chose to conceal and distort and mislead at the expense of Enron's shareholders and employees.

LAVENDERA: Lay has refused to answer questions about Enron's collapse in the past, but now he's taking the offensive. Lay has hired a public relations firm to help him deliver a well-choreographed message.

Family and supporters joined the former executive when he faced reporters after his arrest.

KEN LAY, ENRON'S FORMER CHAIRMAN: Well my lawyers and I believe I should not have been indicted.

LAVENDERA: Lay says Enron's chief financial officer, Andrew Fastow, masterminded the shady accounting deals that caused Enron's financial demise.

Lay says he's guilty of trusting Fastow and nothing more.

LAY: I continue to grieve, as does my family, over the loss of the company. My failure to be able to save it. But failure does not equate to a crime.

LAVENDERA: John Olson spent more than ten years analyzing Enron's finances. He doesn't see how Lay can claim to be unaware of the financial problems.

JOHN OLSON, ENERGY ANALYST: The directors are guilty of some of the most stupendous corporate negligence I've ever seen.

LAVENDERA: Lay also says his connections with the rich and powerful have hurt him. Even though Lay won't say it, those around him think he's a victim of politically motivated investigations.

LAY: It was going to take a lot more courage for a prosecutor to not indict me than to indict me. And indeed I think that's probably been true.

LAVENDERA: Lay says he used to be worth $400 million. Now he estimates his worth at less then $20.

While other Enron executives are generally vilified in Houston, Ken Lay does have support, even among former employees who lost their jobs.

MARK LINDQUIST, FORMER ENRON EMPLOYEE: There's just something about him that I always felt he was a decent guy, he was upright, he was trying to do the best for the company.

LAVENDERA: Ken lay says he wants his case to be the first to go to a jury. He is hoping his trial will start in September, but most observers predict that one of the other 30 Enron executives that has already been indicted will be tried first.

Ed Lavendera, CNN, Houston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Elsewhere on the docket, a setback today for Martha Stewart. A judge today denied her latest request for a new trial.

Ms. Stewart's legal team you may recall asked that the verdict against her be set aside because a government witness allegedly lied on the witness stand.

Judge Miriam Cedarbaum said even so there is overwhelming evidence against the domestic diva who faces sentencing and jail next week.

Two pilots who escaped local prosecution will land instead in federal court on charges of operating an America West Airbus while drunk. They've already been fired. No kidding.

The incident happened two years ago. They were hauled from the flight deck just moments before takeoff.

My goodness. And in Washington today a plaque was unveiled at the Vietnam memorial; it honors vets who died after the war from unseen wounds. Post-traumatic stress and the lasting effects of Agent Orange.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight -- she speaks five languages and rarely pulls a punch and you probably know she's heir to a ketchup fortune.

But what do these things say about the kind of first lady Teresa Heinz Kerry might be?

And what a mother will do to keep her soldier son's memory alive. That story too as we continue from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: For the newly formed Kerry-Edwards ticket, Florida was the stage today. The two senators campaigning in the state that's hugely important to the outcome of the election in November.

Officially the senators are the only names on the newly formed ticket but as in every presidential race, the candidate's spouses are very much a part of the package.

How important a part is a point of debate but fair to say they face great scrutiny, especially potential First Ladies.

Here's CNN's Judy Woodruff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): In the school of political wives you have your controversial Hillarys.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER FIRST LADY: No budget, no controls.

WOODRUFF: Your glamorous Jackies.

JACQUELINE KENNEDY, FORMER FIRST LADY: There seems to be such a shortage of schools and of teachers.

WOODRUFF: Your demure Lauras.

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: Well, I still love to read.

WOODRUFF: And then there's Teresa. And Teresa breaks the mold.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY, WIFE OF SENATOR JOHN KERRY: I was shy in the beginning.

WOODRUFF: Maybe, but not anymore.

Teresa Heinz Kerry, who married John in 1995, but just last year added Kerry to her name, always outspoken, and in five languages, too.

HEINZ KERRY: Buenos dias. WOODRUFF: Hard to package, impossible to rein in, she defies convention, wife to two senators, one Republican, the other a Democrat, mother of three sons she stayed home to raise, heir to her first husband's ketchup fortune, administrator of a philanthropic empire some estimates put at nearly $1 billion, John Kerry calls her a lot of woman. And he's right.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And everywhere she goes, people fall in love with Teresa.

WOODRUFF: But some in the senator's corner worry his wife speaks her mind a little too much, like when she said she'd maim her husband if he strayed or when she raved about Botox or when she suggested Hillary Clinton should have undergone a Cabinet-level Senate confirmation before tackling health care as first lady.

But her maverick ways could win points for her husband, who's constantly battling criticism he's too cautious and too stiff. She's a political original. When "Family Circle" asked the candidates' wives for cookie recipes, Laura Bush offered up traditional oatmeal chocolate chunk. Teresa's choice? Pumpkin spice. Different, to be sure, an acquired taste, perhaps. But it is the flavor of raw politics.

Judy Woodruff, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Washington has long been a hunting ground for missteps of first ladies, as well as a stage for their successes, a very public stage. As a longtime reporter for "The Washington Post," Sally Quinn has covered many a presidential spouse, and their husbands, too.

She joins us from Washington tonight.

It's always good to see you.

Well, Mamie Eisenhower, she is not, is she? And Hillary Clinton, she is not. Who is she?

SALLY QUINN, "WASHINGTON POST": She really is an original. You know what she is? She is a real person. She's not a political person. And she said that earlier on "LARRY KING," that she was married to a Republican and now a Democrat, but she's not ideological at all. She's not political.

She's like you and me. I think if I had to use one word to describe Teresa, it would be cozy. When you meet Teresa and sit down and talk to her five minutes, you suddenly become her best friend, because you really do think that you're talking to another human being. She is just not programmed. You know, you couldn't make her into a political person or a politician if you tried. She's just not that person.

BROWN: On a stage like she is on now, will she get eaten alive? QUINN: Well, there was an article in "The Washington Post" several years ago in which she was very, very candid. And I think there was a lot of negative reaction. And I think she was stunned by it, because she was just being herself.

And so I think that she has reined herself in a little bit in terms of the kind of statements that she's made. Now, people then, when that story ran, said that she would be a detriment to him. But I think now that she's turned into a real asset because I think she obviously realizes that, in a presidential campaign -- and there's nothing else like a presidential campaign -- it's on a whole different level from anything else that she has ever been exposed to -- that you really do have to be a little bit more careful.

And, I mean, it seems to me that I haven't heard anything that she has said in the last couple of years or the last year and a half, anyway, since he's been running, that has been at all controversial or outrageous. It just seems to me that it's been very personal and just makes her into a different and unusual and interesting person.

BROWN: Do you think the country -- I mean, she's a complicated character. Do you think the country will be, as this campaign unfolds, grow comfortable with her or not?

QUINN: Well, as I said, she's a really cozy person. And she's very personable. She comes across as familiar. I went to a lunch for her a couple of months ago with about 25 women from Washington. It was a very small, intimate lunch. And she got up and started talking. And she didn't give the usual campaign spiel.

It was just -- it was very off the top of her head. But every woman in the room felt as though Teresa was talking to her personally. She has that ability. I mean, she's very good in small groups. But she has that ability to connect with people. Obviously, it's more difficult when you have a huge crowd of 3,000. But I just think that we've come beyond -- certainly, after Hillary Clinton, who was very controversial, I just don't think that Teresa is a controversial person, particularly what she does.

She has this huge foundation. Her whole life has been geared to sort of doing good.

BROWN: Yes.

QUINN: She's always got these -- she's a real environmentalist. She gives money away through her philanthropic foundation, so that what she does is nothing that would be controversial, would only be an asset to John Kerry.

BROWN: It's going to be interesting. She's a real person. It's going to be interesting to watch.

It's nice to see you again. Thank you.

QUINN: Thank you.

BROWN: Sally Quinn in Washington tonight.

Still to come on the program, a conversation with former President Bill Clinton, including a warning that he gave incoming president, President Bush.

And later still, morning papers.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Former presidents can cast a long shadow on aspiring presidents, especially when they write a best-selling book. We're talking about Bill Clinton here on what has been a very big week for John Kerry. Mr. Clinton remains out there in the public eye selling books, drawing crowds, waxing philosophical.

The former president sat down with CNN's Christiane Amanpour to talk past and present.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I want to ask you about Osama bin Laden. You say in your book that you made several efforts to kill him. In retrospect, do you believe, though, that you should have mustered some kind of special mission, some kind of special forces mission, even though many of your senior military advisers opposed that at the time? Do you think you should have done it?

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, what I wish now is that I had had a more vigorous military debate.

One of the discussions that I had with the 9/11 Commission involved the question of whether the reorganization of the military in the 1980s under the Goldwater-Nichols Act, which has done a lot of good -- it has helped to rationalize military spending. It's helped us to downsize the military and spend more in the areas where we need it. It's done a lot of good.

But, essentially, it made the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff much more powerful and centralized authority there. So, when people began to second-guess the fact that I didn't send the special forces in to Afghanistan, even though, conceivably, nobody knew where bin Laden was. Nobody knew where Dr. al-Zawahiri was. Nobody knew. But we had a general idea of where they were operating.

After 9/11, when people began to second-guess that, I wish that I had had a military debate, because, basically, the Pentagon and General Shelton were strongly opposed to it. They thought that the chances of those guys getting killed were high. And that's what they signed on to do, to risk their lives. But they didn't want to get killed with no reasonable prospect of accomplishing the missions.

But I'm the commander in chief, or was then. And they would have gone if I had ordered them to. I wish I had debated it a little more thoroughly. The other issue that I've been asked about is slightly different, which is, after the USS Cole in October, do I wish I had ordered the special forces? And the answer to that is, I would have done it in a heartbeat, the special forces and more, with or without international support, once I got the CIA and the FBI to agree and make an official finding that bin Laden was responsible.

I just assumed he was from the day it happened. And everyone else did. But it was not until after I left office that the FBI and the CIA made a finding. If they'd given me a finding beforehand, I would have gone after him.

AMANPOUR: In one of your farewell interviews as president, you told an interviewer that one of your most difficult and challenging issues as president was Iraq. In retrospect, do you wish that you had mustered a large invasion force like President Bush? And, if not, do you think that the threat that you faced from Iraq is any different than the threat that President Bush faced from Iraq?

CLINTON: The answer to the first question is no.

I basically believe that the policy that I inherited, which was to keep Saddam Hussein in a box and under sanctions unless and until he fully complied with all the U.N. resolutions, was the right policy. It wasn't so great for the Iraqis, but he didn't present a substantial threat to anyone else.

AMANPOUR: You intervened eventually in Bosnia and early in Kosovo to stop a genocide. And the war was also coupled with a very robust postwar plan, with very heavily armored U.S.-led forces and a political plan.

Given the instability in Iraq post the formal war there, what do you think could and should have been done differently to stabilize Iraq in much the same way as either Bosnia or Kosovo were after the war?

CLINTON: Well, first, we had a very different situation, because NATO wasn't with us in Iraq and the Russians didn't come into Iraq.

Keep in mind, the Russians nominally opposed what we and NATO did in both Bosnia and Kosovo, but they knew we were right. And they came in and helped us with postwar planning. So we lost a lot of soldiers there after the mission was declared accomplished in Iraq, hundreds of them. And it made General Shinseki, whose military career was cut short because he committed candor in testifying that we needed more troops before the Congress, it made General Shinseki look like a seer, like he knew what he was predicting.

So you can say we needed more troops there. I think the main thing is, we should have moved more quickly to internationalize it. And that would have required us early on letting the United Nations have a say in the political decisions, opening the contracts up to people other than Americans and their allies, and just basically trying to say, OK, Saddam's gone. Now we need everybody's help to in make it right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Former President Bill Clinton and Christiane Amanpour.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, she's made it her job to take care of the soldiers in Iraq, sending care packages and letters. She does so for a reason.

And we'll wrap it up tonight, as we always do, with morning papers.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We've told many stories of loss since 9/11. On most nights on this program, we show you the names of those who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. What we don't do often enough is show you their lives or their families.

Private 1st Class Jacob Fletcher was killed in Iraq last November, just a few days before he would have turned 29. He didn't get a chance to open the birthday care package his mother, Dorine Kenney had sent him. Sending reminders of home is what she did to help keep her son's spirits up after he arrived in Iraq. And now she's doing it for other U.S. soldiers, hundreds of them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DORINE KENNEY, FOUNDER, JACOB'S LIGHT FOUNDATION: Jacob's Life Foundation was started in memory of my son, who was killed in Iraq on November 14 of 2003.

Our mission is to get boxes of toiletries and foods and tastes from America to support our military. Our main focus is soldiers without family or support from home, although our boxes have ended up in the laps of everybody, which is wonderful.

And the local American Legion has opened their doors, so we could use their space. And the volunteers come down on Tuesday evening and we'll pack about 30 boxes, sometimes 40, sometimes 25.

The most important thing are the wipes. They really need the wipes. They need them for their bodies. They need them for their guns, I hear.

We send shampoo, soap, Q-tips, some toilet papers and tissues and macaroni and cheese, which was my son's favorite. We send cookies and cakes and cans of tuna. And peanut butter and jelly for the spirit. All of it is donated. We get funds come in and checks. So it's all by donation and people in the community helping, not only in the community. Checks come in from all over the country. And it makes this possible.

And I just start my shopping. And I know prices very well. I'm a very good shopper. And it sure is utilized now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One forty-six forty-six.

KENNEY: It keeps me going.

Put them in towards the end of the packing.

Some people, I guess, hold blankets over their head. And I don't judge any of that. But I needed to function. I needed to work. And that's what I did. And this takes a lot of work. That's best for me in my healing process.

This stuff is wonderful. You guys did some job.

In every box, we include pictures and letters from little children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's kind of hard to get all that stuff at the post office.

KENNEY: Some even sent guardian angels for the soldiers, and a letter from me, saying we have this organization about getting you things. Tell me who you are, and is there anybody there that doesn't receive anything?

"I didn't get any mail from friends or family, so I was happy to open something. Thank you so much."

I get letters like this. I cry and I cry. It touches me.

"Once again, thank you for everything. I look forward to hearing from you soon."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heavy today?

KENNEY: Probably 27 pounds.

So far, we've gotten between 6,500 and 7,000 pounds of stuff out to the soldiers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This one is a little over 27 pounds.

KENNEY: Jacob really felt life very deeply. He would really love the fact that the boxes are being sent in his memory to make his brothers and sisters there more comfortable and keep their morale going. That's who my son was.

When the war is over, which I hope is soon, we're going to continue to find a way to help those that serve. We will always be a foundation to help those that protect us and help us in the memory of my son and what he believed in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. It's kind of odd little day ahead, it appears.

"The International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times" in Paris, starts it off. You people can all say this with me, if you want. I like this story, "Bringing Down the Symbol of Enron." I particularly like the picture. Mr. Lay looks a bit smug to me, but it is hard for you to see it from where you're sitting in your living room. "Getting Any Indictment May Have Been Justice Department Goal" is the subhead in "The Herald Tribune."

"Christian Science Monitor" leads similarly. "Another CEO in Handcuffs." It's -- no, it's not the same picture. "Enron's Kenneth Lay is Indicted, Part of a Wave of Prosecutions of Corporate Officers," the Rigas, the Philadelphia cable TV family, two of them convicted in New York today.

"The Guardian." Just down in the corner here, if you don't know what to do with yourself, why not be a freelance journalist? I think it's a correspondence course.

How much time? Oh, OK. Cool.

"Philadelphia Inquirer" leads local. "Two La Salle Players Face Rape Charges, Two Coaches Suspended in Separate Investigations," just another normal day on the sports beat. "Sadly, the allegations are all too familiar," writes Phil Sheridan, a wonderful columnist in a very good paper.

"Boston Herald." "Sex Fiends in Your Town," well, at least in Boston, I presume. "State Put Perverts in Neighborhoods." And there's a very funny picture that's right there, but I don't want to talk about it.

"Chicago Sun-Times," the weather tomorrow, "growly." So am I some days.

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Quick program note before we go. John Edwards often, or even always, speaks of his background, small town, working class. Tomorrow on this program, we'll hear from his parents, Bobbie and Wallace Edwards, who say they are amazed and at times overwhelmed by their son's success, that and a whole lot more on NEWSNIGHT tomorrow, morning papers, the tabloids, Friday. Join us 10:00 Eastern time.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next for most of you.

We'll see you tomorrow. Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired July 8, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again. I'm beginning to think that many of you are more cynical than I.
I was flipping through the e-mails the program received today and there were many, and I do mean many, who believe that the timing of today's terror warning was designed to simply distract from the announcement two days ago of the Kerry-Edwards ticket.

These notes were almost reflexive. If the administration says it, it must be untrue, or it must simply be a way to win the election. That was the theme.

We'll look at the politics of this tonight, but first a couple of thoughts. I, too, wish these warnings came with more information.

But I also know that senators who did get more information, many of them with no particular love for the administration, came away concerned not about the politics, but about the possibility.

And one more thought: Madrid. That happened. People died. Lots of them. Even with the lack of information, I'll take whatever value the warning has over nothing at all. And it is the warning, of course, that leads "The Whip."

CNN's Kelli Arena in Washington tonight. Kelli, a headline from you.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, some officials say the concern level is as high as it was just after the September 11th attacks. But as you mentioned, critics abound, and some say without offering specifics, terror warnings do more harm than good.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you. Next, the political dimension. Not hard to find, of course, in an election year, normal or not.

From the White House tonight, Suzanne Malveaux. Suzanne, a headline.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, with no specifics about where, when, or how these terrorist attacks might occur, some Democrats cried foul, accusing the Bush administration of playing politics with homeland security -- also engaging in fear-mongering -- but the Bush administration says it's not so.

BROWN: Suzanne, thank you.

On to Iraq. More turmoil and a stepped up search for one of the men behind it.

Brent Sadler with us again tonight. Brent, a headline from you.

BRENT SADLER, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, a deadly mortar attack kills five more U.S. troops in Samarra, north of Baghdad, amid growing signs, say the authorities here, that the insurgency is not only growing in strength and support, but is turning more Islamic fundamentalists in nature, encouraging more Iraqis to step forward and defeat terrorism.

I'll have that story.

BROWN: Brent, thank you, and finally to the Pentagon and the strange mystery surrounding the Marine who vanished from Iraq and resurfaced in Lebanon.

Our senior Pentagon correspondent gets the call on this one. So, Jamie, a headline from you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SR. PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, Marine Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun is alive and well and safe in U.S. hands, but his trouble may just be starting.

Military investigators are suspicious that his capture may have been faked, and he's under investigation for possibly being a deserter. A crime that, by the way, carries a potential death penalty.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight -- he once had the new economy at his feet -- today he had handcuffs on his wrists.

Ken Lay's reversal of fortune.

Plus, you've heard the saying behind every good man is an even better woman. Tonight we'll take a look at two -- the candidate's wives.

And what's black and white and usually shows up around here at 10:55 Eastern? Morning papers. That, too, tonight. All that and more in the hour to come.

We begin tonight with the latest terror alert and something Congresswoman Jane Harmon on the Intelligence Committee said about it today. I watched Tom Ridge dance, she said, around the color yellow. Meaning if the threat is as serious as the administration says it is, why not raise the threat level?

It is not an unfair question, nor is it a question without an answer. But tonight the color code remains the same, and the nation's law enforcement agencies and the people they protect are again warned.

We have two reports tonight beginning first with CNN's Kelli Arena. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): It was a familiar refrain, but still chilling.

More warnings about al Qaeda's intent to again hit the United States.

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Credible reporting now indicates that al Qaeda is moving forward with its plans to carry out a large-scale attack in the United States in an effort to disrupt our democratic process.

ARENA: Officials say that's exactly what al Qaeda believes it did in Spain. But Ridge says the intelligence about an attack in the United States offers no specific time, place, or method.

And he says there are no plans to raise the national threat level. Critics suggest without specifics, public warnings do not help the public.

MICHAEL GREENBERGER, UNIVERSITY OF MARYLAND: They should avoid the dramatic monthly press conference and have a continuous dialogue with the American people on a much more non-threatening level that keeps them appraised on a regular basis as to what's being done.

ARENA: Counter-terrorism officials say there is intelligence suggesting terrorists are looking to hit transportation systems, like they did in Madrid.

And based on past overseas plots, intelligence analysts are particularly concerned about truck bombs, which could be used to target tunnels and bridges.

Officials also say al Qaeda remains very interested in aviation, either targeting aircraft or using it as a weapon.

RIDGE: These are not conjectures or mythical statements we are making. These are pieces of information that we could trace comfortably to sources that we deem to be credible.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: Senior intelligence officials say the U.S. is putting al Qaeda under heavy pressure along the Afghanistan-Pakistan border, where top al Qaeda leaders are believed to be.

Officials say intelligence shows those leaders, including Osama bin Laden, continue to give orders directing attacks -- Aaron.

BROWN: Do they give us any hints at all about where their information is coming from?

ARENA: They say from a variety of sources and actually that's one of the keys here, Aaron, is that the sources are corroborating each other, whether they are human sources, detainees, intercepts, a variety of sources that are giving information that is very similar and that's what's leading to the concern.

BROWN: All right. Let me ask a difficult one here. You've covered a bunch of these.

And you've got a great eye for all of this. Walk out of that briefing today with a sense that -- a sense of what? That this is the real deal?

ARENA: I do think that it's the real deal, Aaron. I believe that -- that the concern that the officials are expressing to me is real.

But the frustration is also real, Aaron, because I have had dinners and drinks with many of these intelligence officials who are truly frustrated that there isn't anything that's more actionable. That there isn't any intelligence they can really get their hands around and move on.

As you know there's a great effort underway to try to determine if there are any al Qaeda operatives here in the United States and to identify them. There's a task force that was set up but still nothing specific.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you. Kelli Arena is in Washington tonight.

The alert played out as lawmakers in the House were deciding on a bill to scale back certain controversial elements of the Patriot Act. The measure failed, but only after Republican leaders in the House extended the voting deadline and used that extra time to bring ten wayward Republicans back into line.

As the voting dragged on, Democrats chanted "shame, shame, shame" across the aisle. It was an exceptionally bitter political moment in a pretty bitter place, the House. For three years into the new normal, however, perhaps it is nothing new.

Here's CNN's Suzanne Malveaux.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX (voice-over): With the elections just four months away, today's terrorist warning immediately became political fodder for Republicans and Democrats competing to win the upper hand on this volatile issue.

Some Democrats questioned the timing of the announcement. Congressman Robert Wexler of Florida released this statement saying: "Given the fact that the administration chose not to raise the threat level, one cannot help but question whether their aim was to deflect attention from the Kerry-Edwards ticket during their inaugural week."

The White House denied it was using the terrorist update to bolster its wartime president during the election season.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have an obligation, regardless of the time of year, or what year we are in, to protect the American people and keep them informed about what we are doing to provide for their safety and security.

MALVEAUX: The Kerry campaign used Ridge's remarks to argue the Bush administration wasn't doing enough. It stated, "Our crucial intelligence and military resources are overstretched abroad and our homeland security effort at home is under-funded and poorly managed."

Democrats briefed by Ridge agreed the al Qaeda threat was serious and credible, but they seized on the warning to blame Republicans for blocking homeland-related legislation in favor of social issues, such as an amendment to ban gay marriage.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: We have two weeks left before we are in recess. Do you think al Qaeda is taking a recess? You know, right now as we speak, in cafes in Europe and in tents in North Africa and in caves in Afghanistan they are plotting against us.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MALVEAUX: Now Republican senators shot back saying it's the Democrats who are playing politics with homeland security and White House aides say when it comes to issuing these terrorist threats it's a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario -- Aaron.

BROWN: Suzanne, on the question of the color code and the terror alert level, can you address the question why it was not raised?

MALVEAUX: Well, they simply say they don't have the specifics and they didn't have the kind of information that was necessary to raise it to that particular level.

There are a lot of people, of course, who are asking -- you know -- what are the requirements, the specific requirements. That is not something that the White House particularly shares, but the Bush administration officials we talked to believe that they are confident. They believe it's the right thing to do to get out the kind of information at least this information that they did have today.

BROWN: Suzanne, thank you. Suzanne Malveaux at the White House.

As one of the administration's leading experts on counter- terrorism, Fran Townsend, deals mainly in the realm of policy. On days like today, however, she is also a point person to some extent.

Policy and politics coexist. We talked with her late this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I know just from conversations with homeland security people, that you're always battling a perception that there's a political motivation to these announcements.

So why the timing of this one now?

FRANCES TOWNSEND, WHITE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISER: You know, Aaron, it's -- or I find the question interesting because in point of fact, what happens is we go -- the timing of announcements is dictated by the actions of bad guys and by our access to intelligence.

And when those two come together, we make public announcements. Secretary Ridge talked to the public in April. Attorney General Ashcroft and Director Mueller did again in May.

There was a public announcement -- there was a law enforcement announcement, rather, just before the Fourth of July.

As we get information that is credible and something we believe we can act on, and we can use the public's help in thwarting an attack, then we make it public.

BROWN: So we can assume that we're not dealing with the same set of facts that we were dealing with in July or in May. That there is information more current than that that you are responding to?

TOWNSEND: The answer is we get more intelligence every day, and you know, as the saying goes, as we put more dots on the map the fact is a picture emerges that has become more and more concerning. Senator Daschle described the brief as sobering and I think that's a fair assessment.

BROWN: And I think a number of senators have said similar things about the briefing. They obviously heard more, and I think this is another frustration that comes not just from nosy reporters -- it's a limited amount you were able to say. Can you not put any more meat on this bone?

TOWNSEND: Well, look -- what we do when we get threat information is we have to protect sources and methods or otherwise we lose our window into the threat and it's that window that helps us protect Americans.

What we do, you know, is we go back and we know a great deal about al Qaeda's method of operation, their targeting -- what their targeting strategy is. And we go back now based on the intelligence we know and we ask Americans to help us collect additional information and state and local police.

To report suspicious activity at sites, at failed target sites. (AUDIO GAP) explosive devices. Think about the World Trade Center in '93 -- they went back to that. So our first priority is to go to known methods of attack and known targeting locations and to immediately begin to look at how we can better secure those locations and take additional protective measures.

BROWN: And just finally there is -- I think we all of us who spend any time on this issue have a sense sometimes that its really a needle in a haystack. It's a huge country; there are thousands and thousands of targets finding the right one and the right person.

How do you combat a sense of futility in protecting them all?

TOWNSEND: Well, the answer is you do it in a target -- targeted and focused way. You know -- it's -- the target -- the phrase we use here in risk management but the fact is what we do is we rely on those people, particularly state and local law enforcement who were the first individuals who are likely to see anomalies. Suspicious behavior. And report that into us so that we can make an assessment about where we need to focus our efforts.

BROWN: Ms. Townsend, good to have you with us. Thank you.

TOWNSEND: Thanks so much, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That was Fran Townsend; we talked with her from the White House earlier today.

Iraq next. A number of explosions heard in Baghdad tonight. North of the capitol rebels took aim at an Iraqi National Guard base in the city of Samarra, killing one Iraqi guardsman and five American soldiers.

From Baghdad tonight, CNN's Brent Sadler.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER (voice-over): This deadly mortar attack is the latest indication, say Iraqi officials, that the insurgency is growing in strength and support, in the wake of a failed U.S. offensive to take Fallujah in April.

Since then, the city has inadvertently fallen under the influence of Taliban-style extremists. Providing shelter it's claimed by U.S. and Iraqi officials for this man: Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, the most wanted terror suspect in Iraq.

MOWAFF AL-RUBAIE, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Fallujah is not going to be a safe haven for these terrorists and nowhere in Iraq will be a safe haven for these terrorists.

SADLER: American jets have bombed Zarqawi's alleged hideouts in Fallujah west of Baghdad, missing their man. But now it seems homegrown Iraqi vigilantes calling themselves the rescue group are also on his trail, threatening to eliminate Zarqawi if he stays in Iraq.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: Well, the government here says its not actively encouraging vigilante groups to take the law into their own hands, but it is being officially recognized here that more Iraqis are doing much more to help their own intelligence services, especially in the 12 days since the former U.S.-led coalition handed sovereignty to an interim Iraqi government.

Intelligence they hope will only get better as time goes on -- Aaron.

BROWN: What is the evidence of that on the ground? Any?

SADLER: Yes, just take three days ago when the U.S. struck the Zarqawi -- suspected Zarqawi safe house in Fallujah. That strike, we were told, was based directly on Iraqi intelligence on the ground. More people, new people, coming forward -- Aaron.

BROWN: And just briefly in "The Whip," you said there is some sense or some evidence, some feeling that the insurgency itself is growing. What is the evidence of that?

SADLER: Well, Iraqi officials say that places like Fallujah, places like Samarra, the very hotbed, the center of this raging insurgency are showing that there is a tendency for more foreign fighters to be involved, better coordination between the x-regimes and foreign fighters and Islamic groups on the ground here in Iraq.

And they say what your seeing on the ground now with the kind of targeting that's taking place shows better coordination and more determination.

BROWN: Brent, thank you. Brent Sadler who is in Baghdad.

The saga of the missing Marine entered a new chapter today, 18 days after he disappeared. This would normally be the moment when the hero, having been spared a horrible death, prepares for his shining moment in the limelight.

Instead, it looks like he's about to spend some time answering tough questions. From the Pentagon tonight, CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): Sources say before Corporal Wassef Ali Hassoun got to the U.S. Embassy in Beirut, Lebanon, it took three tries to arrange a meeting. But officials say eventually Hassoun turned himself over voluntarily.

RICHARD BOUCHER, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN: Made contact with us and arranged a place to meet and we went to pick him up and brought him back to the Embassy.

MCINTYRE: Hassoun is now under military control and faces tough questions from Navy criminal investigators over why he left his unit in Fallujah, Iraq June 20 and what help he got to travel to Tripoli, Lebanon 500 miles away through Syria 18 days later.

BRIG. GENERAL DAVID RODRIQUEZ, DEPUTY SECRETARY STAFF COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: The investigation is ongoing and we don't know how he got there or what went on between the time that he was reported missing from his unit until he got into Lebanon.

MCINTYRE: At first, sources say the Marine Corps suspected Hassoun, an Arabic speaker working as a military truck driver, wanted to desert to Lebanon where he was born and still had family.

Now, Pentagon sources say investigators are also looking into whether the video, purporting to show Hassoun captured and threatened with beheading by an obscure Islamic militant group, was real or a hoax staged to cover his desertion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have nothing for you -- we'll just let this situation unfold and when we've got something to say we'll say it.

MCINTYRE: And in Tripoli, a gunfight erupted outside the shop of a relative of Corporal Hassoun, apparently after members of Hassoun's clan were taunted as alleged American collaborators.

Two people were killed, three wounded, none members of the Hassoun family.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: And, Pentagon officials say soon Corporal Hassoun will be moved to a U.S. military base in Germany where he will be given a full medical evaluation and a complete debriefing as well.

While the Pentagon is cautioning against any speculation, if it turns out that Hassoun is charged with desertion, it is a serious offense that is punishable technically by death -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, they may discourage speculation but it won't stop me. What if any evidence or what reason is there to believe that the kidnapping might have been a hoax?

MCINTYRE: Well, first of all, they have some evidence, and they haven't disclosed what this is, that when Hassoun left his post in Fallujah back on July 19th -- I mean June 19th -- June 20th -- that he had no intention of coming back.

They haven't said why they believe that, but -- so -- they initially thought he was deserting and going to Lebanon.

Then the fact that he was able to get through Syria and into Lebanon without any trouble indicates he may have had some help, something he couldn't have done by himself.

So they're just really wondering about this hostage thing, particularly because there was the claim that he was executed and then he wasn't executed. It's just all very suspicious and they're looking for him to provide some answers and if he doesn't have some good answers he's probably going to be in some trouble.

BROWN: He may be in some trouble even if he does and just -- I think I know the answer to this -- but do we have any idea what he has been saying?

MCINTYRE: Well, apparently he hasn't said much yet although they're anxious to get him out of the country because he does have dual citizenship in both Lebanon because he was born there and the United States.

And they want there to be any extradition questions. He voluntarily turned himself in. They'd like to quickly get him to Germany where there's no extradition issues and then perhaps continue the interrogation there.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, it's a long way down from the top of the corporate ladder. Today, Enron's Ken Lay officially took that fall.

And just when you thought he'd disappeared from public life, wait a minute. This is President Clinton we're talking about.

We'll take a break first. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Country was still reeling from the 9/11 attacks when a string of giant corporate implosions began, starting with Enron.

In the two and a half years since its spectacular collapse, federal investigators have been working their way up the failed company's corporate ladder, building cases against his former executives.

Today, rumor became fact as Enron's former chairman and CEO, Kenneth Lay, was indicted 11 criminal charges. From Texas tonight, CNN's Ed Lavendera.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED LAVENDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: With Ken Lay in handcuffs, prosecutors have reached the mountaintop of Enron's corporate ladder.

ANDREW WEISSMANN, ENRON TASK FORCE: Lay chose to conceal and distort and mislead at the expense of Enron's shareholders and employees.

LAVENDERA: Lay has refused to answer questions about Enron's collapse in the past, but now he's taking the offensive. Lay has hired a public relations firm to help him deliver a well-choreographed message.

Family and supporters joined the former executive when he faced reporters after his arrest.

KEN LAY, ENRON'S FORMER CHAIRMAN: Well my lawyers and I believe I should not have been indicted.

LAVENDERA: Lay says Enron's chief financial officer, Andrew Fastow, masterminded the shady accounting deals that caused Enron's financial demise.

Lay says he's guilty of trusting Fastow and nothing more.

LAY: I continue to grieve, as does my family, over the loss of the company. My failure to be able to save it. But failure does not equate to a crime.

LAVENDERA: John Olson spent more than ten years analyzing Enron's finances. He doesn't see how Lay can claim to be unaware of the financial problems.

JOHN OLSON, ENERGY ANALYST: The directors are guilty of some of the most stupendous corporate negligence I've ever seen.

LAVENDERA: Lay also says his connections with the rich and powerful have hurt him. Even though Lay won't say it, those around him think he's a victim of politically motivated investigations.

LAY: It was going to take a lot more courage for a prosecutor to not indict me than to indict me. And indeed I think that's probably been true.

LAVENDERA: Lay says he used to be worth $400 million. Now he estimates his worth at less then $20.

While other Enron executives are generally vilified in Houston, Ken Lay does have support, even among former employees who lost their jobs.

MARK LINDQUIST, FORMER ENRON EMPLOYEE: There's just something about him that I always felt he was a decent guy, he was upright, he was trying to do the best for the company.

LAVENDERA: Ken lay says he wants his case to be the first to go to a jury. He is hoping his trial will start in September, but most observers predict that one of the other 30 Enron executives that has already been indicted will be tried first.

Ed Lavendera, CNN, Houston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Elsewhere on the docket, a setback today for Martha Stewart. A judge today denied her latest request for a new trial.

Ms. Stewart's legal team you may recall asked that the verdict against her be set aside because a government witness allegedly lied on the witness stand.

Judge Miriam Cedarbaum said even so there is overwhelming evidence against the domestic diva who faces sentencing and jail next week.

Two pilots who escaped local prosecution will land instead in federal court on charges of operating an America West Airbus while drunk. They've already been fired. No kidding.

The incident happened two years ago. They were hauled from the flight deck just moments before takeoff.

My goodness. And in Washington today a plaque was unveiled at the Vietnam memorial; it honors vets who died after the war from unseen wounds. Post-traumatic stress and the lasting effects of Agent Orange.

Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight -- she speaks five languages and rarely pulls a punch and you probably know she's heir to a ketchup fortune.

But what do these things say about the kind of first lady Teresa Heinz Kerry might be?

And what a mother will do to keep her soldier son's memory alive. That story too as we continue from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: For the newly formed Kerry-Edwards ticket, Florida was the stage today. The two senators campaigning in the state that's hugely important to the outcome of the election in November.

Officially the senators are the only names on the newly formed ticket but as in every presidential race, the candidate's spouses are very much a part of the package.

How important a part is a point of debate but fair to say they face great scrutiny, especially potential First Ladies.

Here's CNN's Judy Woodruff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR (voice-over): In the school of political wives you have your controversial Hillarys.

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER FIRST LADY: No budget, no controls.

WOODRUFF: Your glamorous Jackies.

JACQUELINE KENNEDY, FORMER FIRST LADY: There seems to be such a shortage of schools and of teachers.

WOODRUFF: Your demure Lauras.

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY: Well, I still love to read.

WOODRUFF: And then there's Teresa. And Teresa breaks the mold.

TERESA HEINZ KERRY, WIFE OF SENATOR JOHN KERRY: I was shy in the beginning.

WOODRUFF: Maybe, but not anymore.

Teresa Heinz Kerry, who married John in 1995, but just last year added Kerry to her name, always outspoken, and in five languages, too.

HEINZ KERRY: Buenos dias. WOODRUFF: Hard to package, impossible to rein in, she defies convention, wife to two senators, one Republican, the other a Democrat, mother of three sons she stayed home to raise, heir to her first husband's ketchup fortune, administrator of a philanthropic empire some estimates put at nearly $1 billion, John Kerry calls her a lot of woman. And he's right.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And everywhere she goes, people fall in love with Teresa.

WOODRUFF: But some in the senator's corner worry his wife speaks her mind a little too much, like when she said she'd maim her husband if he strayed or when she raved about Botox or when she suggested Hillary Clinton should have undergone a Cabinet-level Senate confirmation before tackling health care as first lady.

But her maverick ways could win points for her husband, who's constantly battling criticism he's too cautious and too stiff. She's a political original. When "Family Circle" asked the candidates' wives for cookie recipes, Laura Bush offered up traditional oatmeal chocolate chunk. Teresa's choice? Pumpkin spice. Different, to be sure, an acquired taste, perhaps. But it is the flavor of raw politics.

Judy Woodruff, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Washington has long been a hunting ground for missteps of first ladies, as well as a stage for their successes, a very public stage. As a longtime reporter for "The Washington Post," Sally Quinn has covered many a presidential spouse, and their husbands, too.

She joins us from Washington tonight.

It's always good to see you.

Well, Mamie Eisenhower, she is not, is she? And Hillary Clinton, she is not. Who is she?

SALLY QUINN, "WASHINGTON POST": She really is an original. You know what she is? She is a real person. She's not a political person. And she said that earlier on "LARRY KING," that she was married to a Republican and now a Democrat, but she's not ideological at all. She's not political.

She's like you and me. I think if I had to use one word to describe Teresa, it would be cozy. When you meet Teresa and sit down and talk to her five minutes, you suddenly become her best friend, because you really do think that you're talking to another human being. She is just not programmed. You know, you couldn't make her into a political person or a politician if you tried. She's just not that person.

BROWN: On a stage like she is on now, will she get eaten alive? QUINN: Well, there was an article in "The Washington Post" several years ago in which she was very, very candid. And I think there was a lot of negative reaction. And I think she was stunned by it, because she was just being herself.

And so I think that she has reined herself in a little bit in terms of the kind of statements that she's made. Now, people then, when that story ran, said that she would be a detriment to him. But I think now that she's turned into a real asset because I think she obviously realizes that, in a presidential campaign -- and there's nothing else like a presidential campaign -- it's on a whole different level from anything else that she has ever been exposed to -- that you really do have to be a little bit more careful.

And, I mean, it seems to me that I haven't heard anything that she has said in the last couple of years or the last year and a half, anyway, since he's been running, that has been at all controversial or outrageous. It just seems to me that it's been very personal and just makes her into a different and unusual and interesting person.

BROWN: Do you think the country -- I mean, she's a complicated character. Do you think the country will be, as this campaign unfolds, grow comfortable with her or not?

QUINN: Well, as I said, she's a really cozy person. And she's very personable. She comes across as familiar. I went to a lunch for her a couple of months ago with about 25 women from Washington. It was a very small, intimate lunch. And she got up and started talking. And she didn't give the usual campaign spiel.

It was just -- it was very off the top of her head. But every woman in the room felt as though Teresa was talking to her personally. She has that ability. I mean, she's very good in small groups. But she has that ability to connect with people. Obviously, it's more difficult when you have a huge crowd of 3,000. But I just think that we've come beyond -- certainly, after Hillary Clinton, who was very controversial, I just don't think that Teresa is a controversial person, particularly what she does.

She has this huge foundation. Her whole life has been geared to sort of doing good.

BROWN: Yes.

QUINN: She's always got these -- she's a real environmentalist. She gives money away through her philanthropic foundation, so that what she does is nothing that would be controversial, would only be an asset to John Kerry.

BROWN: It's going to be interesting. She's a real person. It's going to be interesting to watch.

It's nice to see you again. Thank you.

QUINN: Thank you.

BROWN: Sally Quinn in Washington tonight.

Still to come on the program, a conversation with former President Bill Clinton, including a warning that he gave incoming president, President Bush.

And later still, morning papers.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Former presidents can cast a long shadow on aspiring presidents, especially when they write a best-selling book. We're talking about Bill Clinton here on what has been a very big week for John Kerry. Mr. Clinton remains out there in the public eye selling books, drawing crowds, waxing philosophical.

The former president sat down with CNN's Christiane Amanpour to talk past and present.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I want to ask you about Osama bin Laden. You say in your book that you made several efforts to kill him. In retrospect, do you believe, though, that you should have mustered some kind of special mission, some kind of special forces mission, even though many of your senior military advisers opposed that at the time? Do you think you should have done it?

WILLIAM J. CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, what I wish now is that I had had a more vigorous military debate.

One of the discussions that I had with the 9/11 Commission involved the question of whether the reorganization of the military in the 1980s under the Goldwater-Nichols Act, which has done a lot of good -- it has helped to rationalize military spending. It's helped us to downsize the military and spend more in the areas where we need it. It's done a lot of good.

But, essentially, it made the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff much more powerful and centralized authority there. So, when people began to second-guess the fact that I didn't send the special forces in to Afghanistan, even though, conceivably, nobody knew where bin Laden was. Nobody knew where Dr. al-Zawahiri was. Nobody knew. But we had a general idea of where they were operating.

After 9/11, when people began to second-guess that, I wish that I had had a military debate, because, basically, the Pentagon and General Shelton were strongly opposed to it. They thought that the chances of those guys getting killed were high. And that's what they signed on to do, to risk their lives. But they didn't want to get killed with no reasonable prospect of accomplishing the missions.

But I'm the commander in chief, or was then. And they would have gone if I had ordered them to. I wish I had debated it a little more thoroughly. The other issue that I've been asked about is slightly different, which is, after the USS Cole in October, do I wish I had ordered the special forces? And the answer to that is, I would have done it in a heartbeat, the special forces and more, with or without international support, once I got the CIA and the FBI to agree and make an official finding that bin Laden was responsible.

I just assumed he was from the day it happened. And everyone else did. But it was not until after I left office that the FBI and the CIA made a finding. If they'd given me a finding beforehand, I would have gone after him.

AMANPOUR: In one of your farewell interviews as president, you told an interviewer that one of your most difficult and challenging issues as president was Iraq. In retrospect, do you wish that you had mustered a large invasion force like President Bush? And, if not, do you think that the threat that you faced from Iraq is any different than the threat that President Bush faced from Iraq?

CLINTON: The answer to the first question is no.

I basically believe that the policy that I inherited, which was to keep Saddam Hussein in a box and under sanctions unless and until he fully complied with all the U.N. resolutions, was the right policy. It wasn't so great for the Iraqis, but he didn't present a substantial threat to anyone else.

AMANPOUR: You intervened eventually in Bosnia and early in Kosovo to stop a genocide. And the war was also coupled with a very robust postwar plan, with very heavily armored U.S.-led forces and a political plan.

Given the instability in Iraq post the formal war there, what do you think could and should have been done differently to stabilize Iraq in much the same way as either Bosnia or Kosovo were after the war?

CLINTON: Well, first, we had a very different situation, because NATO wasn't with us in Iraq and the Russians didn't come into Iraq.

Keep in mind, the Russians nominally opposed what we and NATO did in both Bosnia and Kosovo, but they knew we were right. And they came in and helped us with postwar planning. So we lost a lot of soldiers there after the mission was declared accomplished in Iraq, hundreds of them. And it made General Shinseki, whose military career was cut short because he committed candor in testifying that we needed more troops before the Congress, it made General Shinseki look like a seer, like he knew what he was predicting.

So you can say we needed more troops there. I think the main thing is, we should have moved more quickly to internationalize it. And that would have required us early on letting the United Nations have a say in the political decisions, opening the contracts up to people other than Americans and their allies, and just basically trying to say, OK, Saddam's gone. Now we need everybody's help to in make it right.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Former President Bill Clinton and Christiane Amanpour.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, she's made it her job to take care of the soldiers in Iraq, sending care packages and letters. She does so for a reason.

And we'll wrap it up tonight, as we always do, with morning papers.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We've told many stories of loss since 9/11. On most nights on this program, we show you the names of those who have died in Iraq and Afghanistan. What we don't do often enough is show you their lives or their families.

Private 1st Class Jacob Fletcher was killed in Iraq last November, just a few days before he would have turned 29. He didn't get a chance to open the birthday care package his mother, Dorine Kenney had sent him. Sending reminders of home is what she did to help keep her son's spirits up after he arrived in Iraq. And now she's doing it for other U.S. soldiers, hundreds of them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DORINE KENNEY, FOUNDER, JACOB'S LIGHT FOUNDATION: Jacob's Life Foundation was started in memory of my son, who was killed in Iraq on November 14 of 2003.

Our mission is to get boxes of toiletries and foods and tastes from America to support our military. Our main focus is soldiers without family or support from home, although our boxes have ended up in the laps of everybody, which is wonderful.

And the local American Legion has opened their doors, so we could use their space. And the volunteers come down on Tuesday evening and we'll pack about 30 boxes, sometimes 40, sometimes 25.

The most important thing are the wipes. They really need the wipes. They need them for their bodies. They need them for their guns, I hear.

We send shampoo, soap, Q-tips, some toilet papers and tissues and macaroni and cheese, which was my son's favorite. We send cookies and cakes and cans of tuna. And peanut butter and jelly for the spirit. All of it is donated. We get funds come in and checks. So it's all by donation and people in the community helping, not only in the community. Checks come in from all over the country. And it makes this possible.

And I just start my shopping. And I know prices very well. I'm a very good shopper. And it sure is utilized now.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One forty-six forty-six.

KENNEY: It keeps me going.

Put them in towards the end of the packing.

Some people, I guess, hold blankets over their head. And I don't judge any of that. But I needed to function. I needed to work. And that's what I did. And this takes a lot of work. That's best for me in my healing process.

This stuff is wonderful. You guys did some job.

In every box, we include pictures and letters from little children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's kind of hard to get all that stuff at the post office.

KENNEY: Some even sent guardian angels for the soldiers, and a letter from me, saying we have this organization about getting you things. Tell me who you are, and is there anybody there that doesn't receive anything?

"I didn't get any mail from friends or family, so I was happy to open something. Thank you so much."

I get letters like this. I cry and I cry. It touches me.

"Once again, thank you for everything. I look forward to hearing from you soon."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Heavy today?

KENNEY: Probably 27 pounds.

So far, we've gotten between 6,500 and 7,000 pounds of stuff out to the soldiers.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This one is a little over 27 pounds.

KENNEY: Jacob really felt life very deeply. He would really love the fact that the boxes are being sent in his memory to make his brothers and sisters there more comfortable and keep their morale going. That's who my son was.

When the war is over, which I hope is soon, we're going to continue to find a way to help those that serve. We will always be a foundation to help those that protect us and help us in the memory of my son and what he believed in.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. It's kind of odd little day ahead, it appears.

"The International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times" in Paris, starts it off. You people can all say this with me, if you want. I like this story, "Bringing Down the Symbol of Enron." I particularly like the picture. Mr. Lay looks a bit smug to me, but it is hard for you to see it from where you're sitting in your living room. "Getting Any Indictment May Have Been Justice Department Goal" is the subhead in "The Herald Tribune."

"Christian Science Monitor" leads similarly. "Another CEO in Handcuffs." It's -- no, it's not the same picture. "Enron's Kenneth Lay is Indicted, Part of a Wave of Prosecutions of Corporate Officers," the Rigas, the Philadelphia cable TV family, two of them convicted in New York today.

"The Guardian." Just down in the corner here, if you don't know what to do with yourself, why not be a freelance journalist? I think it's a correspondence course.

How much time? Oh, OK. Cool.

"Philadelphia Inquirer" leads local. "Two La Salle Players Face Rape Charges, Two Coaches Suspended in Separate Investigations," just another normal day on the sports beat. "Sadly, the allegations are all too familiar," writes Phil Sheridan, a wonderful columnist in a very good paper.

"Boston Herald." "Sex Fiends in Your Town," well, at least in Boston, I presume. "State Put Perverts in Neighborhoods." And there's a very funny picture that's right there, but I don't want to talk about it.

"Chicago Sun-Times," the weather tomorrow, "growly." So am I some days.

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Quick program note before we go. John Edwards often, or even always, speaks of his background, small town, working class. Tomorrow on this program, we'll hear from his parents, Bobbie and Wallace Edwards, who say they are amazed and at times overwhelmed by their son's success, that and a whole lot more on NEWSNIGHT tomorrow, morning papers, the tabloids, Friday. Join us 10:00 Eastern time.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" is next for most of you.

We'll see you tomorrow. Good night for all of us.

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