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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
35th Anniversary of Moon Landing; Berger the Focus of Criminal Investigation; Saudi Forces Move Against al Qaeda
Aired July 20, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
Thirty-five years ago tonight the most wondrous event of our lifetime took place. Men walked on the moon 35 years ago. In all the years since, history has been written again and again. Wars have been fought, elections held, great stories unfolded.
We have cured disease. We live longer and better. Computers that once filled entire rooms now fit in our back pockets. We walk down the street chatting on phones smaller than cigarette packs. Cars get better mileage. Microwaves cook our meals in 30 seconds. The Internet has made information, much of it even accurate, available in seconds.
But none of that compares to the sheer wonder of man walking on the moon. I was 20, the last week of boot camp. It seems like yesterday. My daughter at 15 has seen the world change in ways both good and bad but nothing so far in her lifetime, nothing can compare to looking up at that night sky 35 years ago, seeing the moon and knowing two men were up there right then walking around.
It wasn't just science. Science was in some ways the least of it. It was the wonder of the last great frontier crossed and I and most of you watched it and we will again remember it tonight.
First, though, the earthly concerns of a former national security adviser and, until quite recently, a consultant to the Kerry campaign. CNN's Kelli Arena working the story, so Kelli start us with a headline.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Sandy Berger says it was all an honest mistake. Still, he remains the focus of a criminal investigation for removing highly classified documents from the National Archives -- Aaron.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you, get to you at the top tonight.
On to Saudi Arabia, another shootout in the war on terror, CNN's Nic Robertson in Riyadh tonight, Nic a headline from there.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, one of the biggest security operations by Saudi security forces in recent months killing two, wounding three al Qaeda members and capturing the wife of the new al Qaeda leader -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, thank you.
Next to Iraq where today a kidnapped victim went free, good news if it ended there, but some fear it will not, CNN's Matthew Chance with the watch tonight in Baghdad, so Matt a headline.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, two weeks with the threat of brutal execution hanging over him ended when that Filipino hostage was released by his Iraqi captors but it's freedom at a very high cost coming as it does just a day after all Filipino forces were withdrawn from Iraqi soil.
BROWN: Matt, thank you.
And finally to infinity and beyond, well to Washington at least and the moon, our Miles O'Brien reporting the story, so Miles a headline.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the real spaceman named Buzz got a little piece of moon rock, at least symbolically tonight. It was NASA's way of commemorating the 35th anniversary but for those that were there the fact that NASA is aiming toward the moon again is perhaps the greatest way they can honor their accomplishment -- Aaron.
BROWN: Miles, thank you, got a couple stories on that tonight. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up on the program tonight the bad news of prescription drugs that doctors and patients may need to know but do not have access to. Elizabeth Cohen reports on that.
And when is heavy security too much security? For some when it surrounds a political convention.
And finally tonight morning papers now and 35 years ago when astronauts were astronauts and roosters were jealous, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin tonight with Sandy Berger who stepped down today as an adviser to the Kerry campaign. So far three broad kinds of questions are being asked. The first category what happened?
Mainly that involves the professionals. The other two, who might have benefited from whatever Mr. Berger did or did not do and why is it being made public now? Each has political motives attached. At the very least they are being raised by Democrats and Republicans against quite a political backdrop.
We have two reports tonight, first the facts the best we have them from CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): Sandy Berger faced the cameras to say for himself what his friends and lawyer had been saying for him. SANDY BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: (AUDIO GAP) documents. I made an honest mistake. It is one that I deeply regret. I dealt with this issue in October, 2003 fully and completely. Everything that I have done all along in this process has been for the purpose of aiding and supporting the work of the 9/11 Commission and any suggestion to the contrary is simply absolutely wrong. Thank you.
ARENA: Law enforcement sources say two classified documents are still missing, drafts of a critical review of the Clinton administration's handling of the millennium terror plot. In an earlier statement, Berger said he may have inadvertently thrown them out. Investigators say there are two issues here, the first the removal of classified documents, which Berger's lawyer says he accidentally put in a portfolio.
JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We take issues of classified information very, very seriously.
ARENA: At the same time, Berger admits that he intentionally took handwritten notes he put together while reviewing the documents. He was supposed to get those cleared by archives personnel but did not.
LANNY BREUER, BERGER'S ATTORNEY: He knew it was a violation of archives procedure. It's not against the law. No one has suggested to him it's against the law. The Department of Justice has not been concerned with it.
ARENA: Law enforcement sources say archives staff told investigators Berger stuffed the notes in his pants and jacket. Those sources also say one archives staffer told agents Berger also placed something in his socks, which Berger associates heatedly deny and there was no camera in the room.
LANNY DAVIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL COUNSEL: I suggest that person is lying and, if that person has the guts let's see who it is who made the comment that Sandy Berger stuffed something into his socks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: As for the September 11th Commission, a spokesman says members are reasonably certain that they saw all versions of those missing memos and sources say that this investigation is still active but there's been no decision made on whether to pursue criminal charges -- Aaron.
BROWN: Let me try two or three fairly quick ones. Walk away from any that you just don't know.
ARENA: OK.
BROWN: If archives staffers saw him stuffing things into his socks or whatever why didn't they stop him?
ARENA: I asked that question because it's a common sense question and I was told that the situation was perceived to be delicate. This was a high profile individual that was there that they alerted law enforcement instead.
BROWN: OK. Now, he says that last fall, 2003, about nine months or so ago this was all dealt with, with the Justice Department. Do we: a) have any reason to believe that is untrue and do we have any reason to believe anything new has happened since the fall of '03?
ARENA: Well, our sources tell us that he, Mr. Berger, has cooperated that he did provide voluntarily documents when he was confronted with the fact that some were missing. His home was searched. His office was searched. But this investigation has been going on for a long time, Aaron, and there's no indication that there's been anything new between the initial spurt of activity and today.
BROWN: Got it. Kelli, thank you very much, Kelli Arena in Washington tonight.
There is, as we already touched upon, a combustible political mixture swirling around this one, with more on that aspect of the story from Capitol Hill tonight, CNN's Joe Johns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Top congressional Republicans spent the day pounding away at the Berger allegations.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I am troubled to hear that one of the members of the Clinton administration, Sandy Berger, pilfered documents from the archives.
JOHNS: House Speaker Dennis Hastert had already put out a statement asking, "Did these documents detail simple negligence or did they contain something more sinister? Was this a bungled attempt to rewrite history and keep critical information from the 9/11 Commission?" House Majority Leader Tom DeLay said the allegations, if true, could be a national security crisis.
REP. TOM DELAY (R), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: But it looks like to me that this is just a third rate burglary.
JOHNS: Senate Republicans pitched in as well.
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: And I, as a member of the Intelligence Committee, I deal with classified documents every single day. We know better and Sandy Berger knew better.
JOHNS: Berger has been an informal adviser to John Kerry and congressional Republicans, as well as the Bush campaign, asked whether the Kerry campaign had benefited from any of the information on national security that Berger took. A spokesman for the Kerry campaign flatly denied it but Berger said he was stepping aside until the matter is resolved. Congressional Democrats fired back the furor was election year politics questioning whether the president's allies timed the leak to distract from the 9/11 Commission report coming out Thursday, their evidence an investigation going on for months is just now becoming public.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: I do think the timing is very curious given this has been underway now for this long. Somebody leaked it obviously with an intent, I think, to do damage to Mr. Berger and I think that's unfortunate.
JOHNS: Berger's former boss also cited the timing but gave him a vote of confidence.
BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that the innocent explanation is the most likely one, particularly given the facts involved and I know him. He's a good man. He's worked his heart out for this country.
JOHNS (on camera): Speaker Hastert has said the House of Representatives wants the truth. Besides the criminal probe that is now underway, a senior Republican leadership aide tells CNN a congressional investigation is a possibility.
Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We're joined now from Cape Cod, and we suspect his summer vacation, by David Gergen who is a colleague of Mr. Berger's and, of course, has been a distinguished adviser to four presidents, President Nixon, Ford, Reagan and President Clinton. Mr. Gergen currently teaches at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government and we are always pleased to see him.
Well, well, well, David, what do you think we have here?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Well, Aaron, I must tell you to underscore it in the beginning, I am a friend of Sandy Berger's and I have utmost faith in his integrity and believe he has served this country enormously well. He's one of the heroes in the war on terrorism in my book. Let me just say I think this has been blown way out of proportion and it is much more innocent than it looks.
Let's get a couple of things very clear. In late 1999, as the millennium celebration approached, the United States had a lot of warnings that terrorists were about to strike.
Sandy Berger went into a bunker for three or four nights, 24 hours a day practically, working with a team and they thwarted that terrorism, those attempted terrorist attacks. One of them was going to be to take out the Los Angeles Airport and there were other strikes intended. They stopped those attacks.
After it was over, he went back to Richard Clarke, yes that Richard Clarke, who was working on his staff and said, "Richard, write up a report on what we've done and let's have a self analysis on what we've done." That's the underlying document that's in question, this millennium report that's based on what he did to stop a terrorism attack.
Now, when the 9/11 Commission came along and said, "Mr. Berger, we want you to come up here and be well versed in the documents surrounding your time as national security adviser regarding terrorism, go into, you know, review all the documents." He went into the National Archives and poured over these documents and in some cases lots and lots of pages.
Now, he did make two mistakes and he admits this and he was sloppy about it. He took notes on what he was reading so he'd be prepared for his testimony and he stuck the notes in his pocket and walked away. That is a technical violation of archival rules.
The second thing he did was he did, as he had all these papers on the desk, he did mix in copies of the original document and got them into his briefcase and, I'm sloppy too so I can appreciate this, he lost a couple of them.
BROWN: David.
GERGEN: So, but let me finish this one point, Aaron, which is critical.
BROWN: OK.
GERGEN: What he lost and what is missing now are copies of original documents and the originals are still there and they've been made available to the 9/11 Commission. There had been no break in the paper trail. There is no harm to national security here. Nothing has occurred which has impaired or threatened national security and there's no advantage to anybody because the documents are in front of the 9/11 Commission, the originals.
BROWN: Then, David, by implication you are suggesting that the puffery that we heard on Capitol Hill today was simply politically motivated stuff?
GERGEN: Well, I have to tell you, Aaron, if I were working on Capitol Hill for one of the Republicans, and I've worked for Republicans in the past, as you well know, I'm sure I would have wanted to join in the fray and pile on and make a whoop-de-doo about this because the 9/11 Commission is coming out and the campaign is coming out.
I do believe, I've talked to his lawyer in this case and Lanny Breuer, Sandy Berger's lawyer, talked to the Justice Department months ago and said, "Gentlemen, let's respect each other here. I will respect your commission. I want you to respect us and be no leaks, especially" he said "just before the 9/11 Commission report."
Now, 48 hours or so before the 9/11 Commission report, boom, you know, something which has been, you know, that Berger hasn't talked to the Justice Department since April suddenly this becomes an issue, is that not suspicious? I would submit it is.
I do think, of course, we should have a full and frank understanding of what happened. We need all the facts on the table but at the end of the day it does seem to me there's a lot less here than meets the eye and this is a man of enormous integrity who ought to be thanked for what he did in stopping the attacks over the millennium.
BROWN: David, good to see you. Thank you much.
GERGEN: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: David Gergen from Cape Cod tonight.
In other news, in Saudi Arabia another in a series of police raids aimed at members of al Qaeda and other Islamic militant groups. They have always been volatile but tonight even more so it seems.
So we turn to Riyadh and CNN's Nic Robertson -- Nic.
ROBERTSON: Aaron, (AUDIO GAP) several hundred police (AUDIO GAP) antiterrorist forces (AUDIO GAP) national guard (AUDIO GAP) the northern city (AUDIO GAP) again saw (AUDIO GAP).
BROWN: All right. Well, obviously we're having a little videophone audio problem. We'll try and sort that out. We'll give you more details on what happened in Riyadh but three al Qaeda figures or terrorist figures at least were killed in the attack. We don't know how many, if any, Saudi security forces were wounded. We'll get more from Nic. Hopefully, we can sort that out as we go.
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, a hostage freed in Iraq, another one country complies with terror demands what that might mean for the rest of the coalition, a most disturbing story out of Iraq.
And 35 years after man landed on the moon those who lived it and sometimes reported it remember it.
Around the world and tonight at least out of this world as well this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: On to Iraq where one life has been spared and others perhaps put in jeopardy. That's the hypothesis being tested. Will giving into kidnappers lead to more kidnappings, more beheadings down the road? Not an easy question, for now simply an open question.
From Baghdad tonight here's CNN's Matthew Chance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE (voice-over): For two weeks he had the threat of brutal execution hanging over him. Now this Filipino truck driver, looking tired and worn, is in safe hands delivered by his captors to the embassy of the United Arab Emirates in Baghdad. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): At 10:30 this morning we were surprised with the handing over of the Filipino hostage and the kidnappers ran away. He is in good health and we've agreed to move him to Abu Dhabi for medical checks.
CHANCE: But this is freedom at a price. Angelo de la Cruz was abducted on July the 7th, one of many kidnappings of foreigners in recent months. His captors vowed to behead him unless Filipino troops in Iraq were withdrawn early few believed they would accept.
At first the government in Manila resisted but on Monday the last of their small contingent of 51 soldiers on a humanitarian mission was pulled out. It was a blow for the U.S. led coalition, a setback for the Iraqi government it supports.
NOSHYAR ZEBARI, INTERIM IRAQI FOREIGN MINISTER: This would be -- will repeat itself.
CHANCE: It is a bad precedent, said Iraq's interim foreign minister, and it sends the wrong message and rewards the terrorists. It's not the first time though that meeting kidnapper's demands has secured a release in Iraq.
Earlier this week an Egyptian worker was set free after the company that employs him, a Saudi Arabian transport firm, ended its operations in the country. Others have done the same.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE: The insurgents and the kidnappers are already starting to issue new threats on Web sites linked with the notorious Jordanian- borne militant Abu Musab Zarqawi saying they're warning all Arab and Muslim countries not to let their government send their armed forces to support the interim Iraqi government here, also giving a specific threat against the Japanese people.
Japan, of course, has a small humanitarian contingent already here. The Web sites linked to Zarqawi saying that Japan should do the same as the Philippines and pull out their troops as soon as possible.
BROWN: Do we assume anything by the fact that they seem to target not countries, there aren't many countries with large contingencies there or contingents there rather but the Poles have several thousand, for example, but they tend to target those countries with really a handful of troops there.
CHANCE: Well, I think they're trying to target anybody they can get their hands on. I think it's pretty much a tactic that's really coming into fruition right now. People are on the lookout for possible targets to kidnap and obviously the westerners whose countries are involved in the coalition in some way are the prime targets.
But even though citizens of countries who don't have anything to do with the coalition directly people perhaps who work for companies that are involved in Iraq they're also being targeted. It's just being used as a way, a means of exerting pressure on either countries or companies operating in Iraq.
BROWN: Matt, thank you, good to see you. Thank you very much.
Coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight, it seems like a new successful medical trial is announced almost every day, but barely a word about the unsuccessful ones and, to many, the bad news is important to know.
And later, too much of a good thing in Boston as the city prepares to welcome a political convention and protect it from terrorists.
From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There are certain leaps of faith we take where our health is concerned. You might assume, for instance, that your doctor has carefully weighed the pros and cons of whatever drug he or she prescribes for you but what if the cons are hidden from view? This, as it turns out, is not an academic question.
Here's CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Candace (ph) Downing's parents say the first hint they had that their 12-year- old daughter might be suicidal was when they found her hanging from her bedroom ceiling.
ANDY DOWNING: We called the paramedics and they tried feverishly to revive her and I was trying to give her mouth-to-mouth resuscitation but I knew something was wrong because her body was cold.
COHEN: Mathy and Andy Downing blame their daughter's suicide on the drug Zoloft used to treat anxiety and depression. A psychiatrist prescribed it because Candace became anxious when taking tests at school. Her parents say she wasn't suicidal, wasn't even depressed before she began the medication.
MATHY DOWNING: She was very into sports, a ton of friends, probably the most social child I've ever met.
COHEN: Whether or not drugs like Zoloft really do cause suicides is a matter of medical debate with studies supporting both sides but now another debate has emerged.
The Downings and other families charge that drug makers knew from pre-marketing studies that these drugs made some children and teens suicidal but hid the study results.
Pfizer, which makes Zoloft, wouldn't comment on the Downing case because the family has filed a lawsuit. The company referred us to the corporate policy on its Web site which states:
"Pfizer commits to timely communication of meaningful results of controlled clinical trials regardless of outcome."
COHEN (on camera): By law drug companies have to tell the Food and Drug Administration about all their studies when they apply for permission to put their drug on the market but the FDA, also by law, is not allowed to release those studies to the public.
DR. BOB TEMPLE, FDA: We're not allowed to release confidential commercial information. It's illegal. It's a crime.
COHEN (voice-over): Patients aren't the only ones feeling kept in the dark. Doctors also say they're deprived of information and are now pushing for a change in the rules.
The American Medical Association says drug companies should be required to submit their study results, negative as well as positive, to a central registry accessible to anyone via the Internet.
Dr. David Fassler, an expert on childhood depression wrote the AMA registry proposal. He says he was shocked by what happened when he reviewed data on young people and antidepressants at an FDA meeting six months ago.
DR. DAVID FASSLER, UNIV. OF VERMONT COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: I was given access to data from 25 clinical studies, most of which I'd never seen before or I hadn't hear about. There were maybe three or four major studies that were in the literature which we all knew about but we didn't realize that there were this many studies involving 4,000 children and adolescents.
COHEN: The pharmaceutical industry hasn't taken an official position on the AMA's registry idea but has some concerns.
ALAN GOLDHAMMER, PHARM RESEARCH AND MANUFACTURERS OF AMERICA: We don't think that practicing physicians are going to have the time spent pouring through tens of thousands of pages of clinical studies.
COHEN: Dr. Fassler disagrees.
FASSLER: This is clearly something which is going to help people. It's going to improve the quality of health care. It's going to improve our ability as physicians to take care of people.
COHEN: Two months after Candace Downing's death the FDA, after further review of the research, urged doctors to closely monitor patients on drugs like Zoloft for suicidal behavior. The Downings say that's not enough and they're lobbying Congress to require drug companies to make all research public.
Elizabeth Cohen, Laytonsville, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: One quick update on a story we did last night on the program on the Chinese doctor Jung Yung Yong (ph). He's the surgeon you might recall who first blew the whistle on the government's cover- up of the SARS epidemic and, then more recently, wrote a letter criticizing the crushing protests 15 years ago at Tiananmen Square. It made him a dissident in the eyes of the government and landed him in jail. Today, after seven weeks, the Chinese government let him go.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, 35 years after man walked on the moon the agency that put them there brings them back together.
And also tonight a special edition of morning papers, a break first.
From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Thirty-five years ago tonight, Neil Armstrong stepped on to the moon. To give you some idea of how long ago that is, consider this.
On the 20th of July, 1934, 35 years before Apollo 11, manned flight of any kind, let alone in space, was just 30 years old. Today, 35 years after Apollo 11, the next moon landing remains far in the future, if it ever happens at all. Now, just as then, there's a war on, a global enemy out there, and others, some say better, uses for NASA money. In this at least, little has changed. And the 20th of July 1969 keeps getting farther away in time and space.
Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEIL ARMSTRONG, NASA ASTRONAUT: That's one small step for man.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thirty-five years after that one small step, the right stuff icons of the space race gathered once again, older and grayer, to be sure, but by no means jaded.
BUZZ ALDRIN, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: We need to send humans back to the moon on this stepping-stone approach to be able to go to Mars.
O'BRIEN: It was yet another pat on the back from NASA, this time in the form of moon rocks, tiny pebbles, really, technically on loan from the space agency, as federal law makes them the permanent property of all of us.
WALTER CRONKITE, FORMER CBS NEWS ANCHOR: Receiving a piece of moon rock is a newie for me because a lot of people already think we have already have a piece sitting on our desk.
O'BRIEN: NASA so honored 37 astronauts or their survivors and one icon from another arena. CBS anchorman Walter Cronkite covered the space program from its inception.
CRONKITE: I will say tonight that I feel that I am there to represent the press, all of those of us who followed the program through from the beginning and interpreted for the American people. O'BRIEN: The celebration comes as NASA once again sets its sights on the moon as a waypoint to Mars. The Bush administration's initiative looms tentatively over this anniversary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very anxious to be here to bass the baton to the next young man or young woman who walks on the moon.
O'BRIEN: There will never be another event like it. Fueled by Cold War fears and the desire to meet the bold challenge of a martyred president, it was a 21st century technological achievement willed to happen ahead of its time.
SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: It was about a race. It was about coming in first. And the price for coming in second was catastrophic. Today, it's a journey. It's developing capacities with a plan, with a thought, with a longer-term set of objectives of what you can do and where you can go.
O'BRIEN: That rush to be first to plant flags and footprints led to a disposable approach, with no thought of what the next goal might be. As a result, Apollo had an ironic result.
ROGER LAUNIUS, SPACE HISTORIAN: Because of the way in which Apollo was -- as a program that was built around a Cold War crisis, that accomplishing those very limited objectives set us back in the long-term exploration of space.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Over the years, as the space community gathered to celebrate Apollo anniversaries, the occasions became increasingly bittersweet. Many wondered with some sadness if NASA would ever live up to its storied past. This time, the space agency is officially trying and for the explorers of the space race, there could be no better way to celebrate their achievements than that.
And, Aaron, incidentally, I was at the Air and Space Museum all day today. There were some sixth graders there. I asked them who the first person on the moon was and they all said Lance Armstrong.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Well, they got it half right.
O'BRIEN: I would give them 50 percent.
BROWN: You're a fair amount I think younger than I am. Do you remember the day?
O'BRIEN: Yes. I was 10 years old in the basement of my house watching it on the only color TV we had. What was the point of that? It was black and white and grainy. And I also remember straining to stay up for the whole time they were on the moon. I fell asleep.
BROWN: I stayed awake. I was a fair amount older. Thank you, Miles, very much. It is a rare moment that stops the world in its tracks. Normally, we wouldn't use a phrase like that. It would ring of cliche. But 35 years ago today, when Apollo 11 hit its mark and set down on the moon, much of the world did indeed stop in its tracks, transfixed by the improbable made real.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARMSTRONG: Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed.
BROWN: For those who lived it, the memories are vivid still, not so much for the grandeur of it all, but for the risks and the reality.
GENE KRANZ, FLIGHT DIRECTOR, APOLLO 11: The spacecraft was literally so fragile that if you took a screwdriver, you could poke your screwdriver right through the wall of the spacecraft.
ALDRIN: We extended our final approach to miss some rocks and craters.
CRONKITE: Those of us who knew the problems and were living with the problems realized that, with each one of those successes, there was in the immediate offing the imminence of disaster, utter disaster.
KRANZ: And as we got close to surface, we were running out of fuel. And during the last few seconds, we'd count down the crew to the seconds of fuel remaining. And we had 60 seconds, 30 seconds. And about the time that I was hearing 15 seconds, we got the indications that the crew was going through engine shutdown. And that was the first time many of us took a breath for those last two minutes.
BROWN: So much has happened in science and in the world at large in the 35 years since men walked on the moon first, but what happened that night still has an adhesive hold on our collective imagination.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST: Since, at the time, only age 10, I knew that the universe was for me and that it was something that I would devote my life to study, at the time, I viewed the moon landing as just our next step.
BROWN: Some, of course, didn't think it actually happened at all.
SPIKE LEE, FILMMAKER: I think I was in Macon, Georgia, visiting my grandmother's sister. And we said, sister, sister, a man walked on the moon. She said, I don't care what's on television. Ain't no man walking on the moon.
CRONKITE: Whew. Boy.
BROWN: But television proved it did, the nation's common denominator once again. And the man delivering the news to the nation that day is convinced that that anniversary will endure.
CRONKITE: July 20, 1969, I'm sure, is going to be perhaps the one historical date that children 500 years from now will recognize. And why can I be sure of that? I'm sure of that because think back 500 years now. It was a very important age in Europe. Things were developing there at some pace. And what is the date that is remembered? October 12, 1492.
BROWN: An experience so unique, so rare that the world became one.
HOLLY HUNTER, ACTRESS: We haven't had anything like that happen, you know, culturally. It's also fantastic that everybody in the world was watching that at the same time, you know, that it was happening at the same time, which means that everybody was tuned in and looking at this one man at the same second. We don't have that cumulative communal experience, that global experience anymore.
BROWN: You can argue, of course, that these days, with so many television channels, so much information, that all major events are global, but not in the way it was on that single midsummer's day in 1969. As they say, you had to be there. And for those of us who were, for those of us who looked up at that summer sky, for those of us, there will never be another feeling quite like it, a feeling of such discovery and pride.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still ahead on the program tonight, unwelcome and some say unnecessary, new ways of protecting a political convention.
And we promise it will be worth waiting for. It is always worth waiting for, tonight especially. Morning papers looks back 35 years ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Nearly three years after the 2001 anthrax killings, FBI investigators today returned to Fort Detrick in Maryland, where they searched part of a research lab for evidence in the unsolved case. The lab facility has been closed since Friday. Fort Detrick is home to the Army's biological warfare defense program. And it is where former Army researcher Steven Hatfill once worked.
Mr. Hatfill was named by Attorney General John Ashcroft as a person of interest in the case. Mr. Hatfill also has strongly denied any wrongdoing and has never been charged with any crime.
Next week in Boston will mark another first in the post-9/11 world. When Democratic delegates meet to nominate their candidates for president and vice president, they'll do so under unprecedented security for such an occasion, unprecedented and to some at least unwelcome.
From Boston tonight, CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): It's a massive security blanket covering Boston during the Democratic National Convention. In the harbor, armed Coast Guard units and new Boston Police speedboats.
KATHLEEN O'TOOLE, BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Capable of heading off threatening vessels at speeds up to 70 miles an hour.
LOTHIAN: Across town for the first time at least 75 high-tech cameras wired into a temporary surveillance network. Manhole covers have been sealed. Garbage cans and newspaper stands, potential hiding places for bombs, have been removed.
THOMAS MENINO (D), MAYOR OF BOSTON: The people of Boston can feel assured knowing that our city is more secure than ever.
LOTHIAN: But that tight security grip troubles some residents, who worry too much of a good thing may cross the line.
PROTESTERS (singing): We are no more safe than in the streets of Boston.
LOTHIAN: These protesters recently took to the streets calling the city's plans to conduct random person bag checks on the train system during the DNC week unconstitutional.
CAROL ROSE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACLU: It is going to violate the fundamental right to privacy while potentially bringing the entire system to a standstill.
LOTHIAN: Civil rights advocates are poised to file lawsuits to challenge searches and halt them once they begin.
URSZULA MASNY-LATOS, NATIONAL LAWYERS GUILD: If we allow these searches to happen, what will be our next step? Are we going to allow searches of all cars? Are we going to allow searches of everyone who enters a mall? Where are we going to stop with this?
LOTHIAN (on camera): The ACLU is also concerned about all the surveillance cameras which will be keeping a close eye on activity across the city, raising questions about oversight and safeguards, fearful that they could be used for the wrong reasons.
(voice-over): But law enforcement officials say they're just targeting criminals, not snooping on the general public, and that all the security measures, while inconvenient, are necessary.
O'TOOLE: This is a different world today. It's is post-9/11 world. We have to err on the side of caution.
LOTHIAN: Some residents are understanding.
RICHARD GROSSACK, BOSTON COMMUTER: You have to be somewhat sympathetic, no matter how much of a civil liberties person you are.
LOTHIAN: The law enforcement challenge, working to keep Boston safe and free.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Steve Flynn is a retired U.S. Coast Guard commander and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He's directed the council's Independent Task Force On Homeland Security and also has written "America the Vulnerable." And he joins us from Washington tonight.
It's good to see you.
You said to us earlier that on a scale of one to 10, we've gone from one to about three. Just quickly, in an open society, can you ever get to 10 in terms of security?
STEPHEN FLYNN, AUTHOR, "AMERICA THE VULNERABLE": No. And the goal isn't to necessarily be at 10.
But it really is to have adequate security to deal with the threat that's confronting us. And I worry that while we're protecting the conventions, the Democratic Convention, the story you just showed, and the Republican Convention, what we're not going to talk about inside those conventions is what are we really doing as a nation to address the vulnerability of our critical infrastructure that underpins our society.
We've made the war on terrorism a war that we handle overseas, instead of addressing the core reality of 9/11, which were, the terrorists were here and they used our infrastructure against us, in that case, commercial airliners. We haven't dealt with the fact that we're a very soft target. And beginning to address that issue is something I try to call for in this book, is absolutely critical.
BROWN: Steve, let's talk quickly about some of the things that you believe should have been done by now that haven't been done. Port security anywhere near where it should be?
FLYNN: No. The port security situation is, we're basically in a wide-open situation.
There is a lot of steps that have begun to be taken, but they're small steps, they're really baby steps, given the threat. The threat is that we have up to 18 million containers, for instance, for which a weapon of mass destruction could be put in and brought into society of which we check about 5 percent. Now, the problem isn't just that one could get in. It's that our response when something happens will be to shut down the system to sort it out.
Why is that a problem? That's everything we get from a Wal-Mart. That's everything -- that's getting in pharmacies, prescription drugs. That's shutting assembly lines. Three weeks of shutting down our ports could shut down the global economy. That's a national security issue of the first order, but we're not treating it as such. We're treating it as a domestic security issue that we can plod along and hope for the best.
BROWN: Just give me again, as briefly as you can, your sense of why what would seem to be fairly obvious steps haven't been taken.
FLYNN: Well, I think one of the reasons why is because we've a bit deluded ourselves into thinking that we can handle this problem by taking the battle to the enemy overseas, when, in fact there is no central front on the war in terrorism.
And it is not that we don't do an offense. It is that we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can deal with the offense and deal with the fact that we need a defense as well. Football games are sometimes won by good defense. The other side of it is, it's complicated. Is it hard. And we haven't drawn in, we the people, the civil society, the men and women of the society in the private sector into the solution.
We've been told to shop and travel, that we'd be taken care of. And it's that lack of engagement that I think is creating the suspicion that people have about the government, the civil liberty concerns and so forth, because we're not being drawn in as citizens to address this problem. So, politically, it's an uncomfortable problem. It's a complicated problem. And we're seduced into thinking that, if we just work more vigilantly overseas, maybe it will all go away.
BROWN: Steve, there's a lot more to talk about. We'll have to have you back to do on a night when we've got a bit more time. It's nice to meet you. Thanks for your time tonight.
FLYNN: Thanks so much, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you.
Still ahead tonight, morning papers past and present.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers from around the country, around the world, past and present. I'm so disorganized tonight, it scares me.
Let's start with "The Manila Times." That would be in the Philippines. That's the "around the world" part. "Angelo Is Freed." That's a good lead for them; "14-Day Ordeal Ends For Filipino Driver." No, I'm sure somewhere in the paper, they get into the pros and cons of pulling out their troops, but it's not there on the front page.
"Chattanooga Times Free Press." "Emergency Room Shutdown." This is a good local story, isn't it? "Area Facilities Closed For New Patients Almost 450 Times in a Year." Also on the front page, "Report Won't Say 9/11 Was Avoidable. Members of September 11 commission say they want to present the facts and not allow their work to be used for political purposes." Lots of luck there, guys. A couple of them will be joining us next week.
"The Detroit News." Then we're going to go do some old ones. "Ford Makes $1.2 Billion But Trouble Looms Ahead." Talk about whether the cup is half full or half empty, my goodness.
All right, 35 years ago, this is how "The New York Times" headlined the night, the day. "Men Walk On Moon." I love that headline. I mean, it's just straight ahead. "Astronauts Land On Plan, Collect Rocks, Plant Flag. A Powdery Surface Is Closely Explored." And down in the corner, you can't really see this too well, but "The Times" published a poem by Archibald MacLeish called "Voyage to the Moon." That's what -- these pictures I suspect looked a whole lot better than they looked to us. But that's "The New York Times."
One more quick look at it, will you, Chris? "Men Walk On Moon."
OK, "The Christian Science Monitor" on that day, a little more poetry here. "Mankind Embraces the Moon, a Milestone, Not a Finish Line. Humanity's greatest triumphs are those that come through peace, intelligence, inspiration, not war," part of the editorial in "The Christian Science Monitor" that day.
"The Courier-Post," I'm not sure where that's from. We Shine on the Moon" was their headline.
And here is "The Wapakoneta" -- I hope I pronounced that right -- "Daily News" in Iowa. "Neil" -- that would be Neil Armstrong, a hometown boy -- "Steps On the Moon." "Armstrong, Aldrin Set For Hazardous Return," 35 years ago. Do I love this story? Yes, I do.
The weather tomorrow in Chicago, by the way, is "fiddlesticks." And I have no idea what it was 35 years ago.
And this is what it looked like 35 years ago right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARMSTRONG: Although the surface appears to be very, very fine- grained as you get close to it, it is almost like a powder. The ground mass is very fine.
And I'm going to step off the LEM. That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.
ALDRIN: Oh, that looks beautiful from here, Neil.
ARMSTRONG: It has a stark beauty all its own. It's like much of the high desert of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Thirty-five years ago, our world changed. It grew larger. It seems to have grown smaller ever since.
Good to have you with us tonight. We're all back here tomorrow. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" for most of you coming up. We're back 10:00 Eastern. Until then, good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired July 20, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
Thirty-five years ago tonight the most wondrous event of our lifetime took place. Men walked on the moon 35 years ago. In all the years since, history has been written again and again. Wars have been fought, elections held, great stories unfolded.
We have cured disease. We live longer and better. Computers that once filled entire rooms now fit in our back pockets. We walk down the street chatting on phones smaller than cigarette packs. Cars get better mileage. Microwaves cook our meals in 30 seconds. The Internet has made information, much of it even accurate, available in seconds.
But none of that compares to the sheer wonder of man walking on the moon. I was 20, the last week of boot camp. It seems like yesterday. My daughter at 15 has seen the world change in ways both good and bad but nothing so far in her lifetime, nothing can compare to looking up at that night sky 35 years ago, seeing the moon and knowing two men were up there right then walking around.
It wasn't just science. Science was in some ways the least of it. It was the wonder of the last great frontier crossed and I and most of you watched it and we will again remember it tonight.
First, though, the earthly concerns of a former national security adviser and, until quite recently, a consultant to the Kerry campaign. CNN's Kelli Arena working the story, so Kelli start us with a headline.
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Sandy Berger says it was all an honest mistake. Still, he remains the focus of a criminal investigation for removing highly classified documents from the National Archives -- Aaron.
BROWN: Kelli, thank you, get to you at the top tonight.
On to Saudi Arabia, another shootout in the war on terror, CNN's Nic Robertson in Riyadh tonight, Nic a headline from there.
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, one of the biggest security operations by Saudi security forces in recent months killing two, wounding three al Qaeda members and capturing the wife of the new al Qaeda leader -- Aaron.
BROWN: Nic, thank you.
Next to Iraq where today a kidnapped victim went free, good news if it ended there, but some fear it will not, CNN's Matthew Chance with the watch tonight in Baghdad, so Matt a headline.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, two weeks with the threat of brutal execution hanging over him ended when that Filipino hostage was released by his Iraqi captors but it's freedom at a very high cost coming as it does just a day after all Filipino forces were withdrawn from Iraqi soil.
BROWN: Matt, thank you.
And finally to infinity and beyond, well to Washington at least and the moon, our Miles O'Brien reporting the story, so Miles a headline.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the real spaceman named Buzz got a little piece of moon rock, at least symbolically tonight. It was NASA's way of commemorating the 35th anniversary but for those that were there the fact that NASA is aiming toward the moon again is perhaps the greatest way they can honor their accomplishment -- Aaron.
BROWN: Miles, thank you, got a couple stories on that tonight. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up on the program tonight the bad news of prescription drugs that doctors and patients may need to know but do not have access to. Elizabeth Cohen reports on that.
And when is heavy security too much security? For some when it surrounds a political convention.
And finally tonight morning papers now and 35 years ago when astronauts were astronauts and roosters were jealous, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin tonight with Sandy Berger who stepped down today as an adviser to the Kerry campaign. So far three broad kinds of questions are being asked. The first category what happened?
Mainly that involves the professionals. The other two, who might have benefited from whatever Mr. Berger did or did not do and why is it being made public now? Each has political motives attached. At the very least they are being raised by Democrats and Republicans against quite a political backdrop.
We have two reports tonight, first the facts the best we have them from CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA (voice-over): Sandy Berger faced the cameras to say for himself what his friends and lawyer had been saying for him. SANDY BERGER, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: (AUDIO GAP) documents. I made an honest mistake. It is one that I deeply regret. I dealt with this issue in October, 2003 fully and completely. Everything that I have done all along in this process has been for the purpose of aiding and supporting the work of the 9/11 Commission and any suggestion to the contrary is simply absolutely wrong. Thank you.
ARENA: Law enforcement sources say two classified documents are still missing, drafts of a critical review of the Clinton administration's handling of the millennium terror plot. In an earlier statement, Berger said he may have inadvertently thrown them out. Investigators say there are two issues here, the first the removal of classified documents, which Berger's lawyer says he accidentally put in a portfolio.
JAMES COMEY, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We take issues of classified information very, very seriously.
ARENA: At the same time, Berger admits that he intentionally took handwritten notes he put together while reviewing the documents. He was supposed to get those cleared by archives personnel but did not.
LANNY BREUER, BERGER'S ATTORNEY: He knew it was a violation of archives procedure. It's not against the law. No one has suggested to him it's against the law. The Department of Justice has not been concerned with it.
ARENA: Law enforcement sources say archives staff told investigators Berger stuffed the notes in his pants and jacket. Those sources also say one archives staffer told agents Berger also placed something in his socks, which Berger associates heatedly deny and there was no camera in the room.
LANNY DAVIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE SPECIAL COUNSEL: I suggest that person is lying and, if that person has the guts let's see who it is who made the comment that Sandy Berger stuffed something into his socks.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ARENA: As for the September 11th Commission, a spokesman says members are reasonably certain that they saw all versions of those missing memos and sources say that this investigation is still active but there's been no decision made on whether to pursue criminal charges -- Aaron.
BROWN: Let me try two or three fairly quick ones. Walk away from any that you just don't know.
ARENA: OK.
BROWN: If archives staffers saw him stuffing things into his socks or whatever why didn't they stop him?
ARENA: I asked that question because it's a common sense question and I was told that the situation was perceived to be delicate. This was a high profile individual that was there that they alerted law enforcement instead.
BROWN: OK. Now, he says that last fall, 2003, about nine months or so ago this was all dealt with, with the Justice Department. Do we: a) have any reason to believe that is untrue and do we have any reason to believe anything new has happened since the fall of '03?
ARENA: Well, our sources tell us that he, Mr. Berger, has cooperated that he did provide voluntarily documents when he was confronted with the fact that some were missing. His home was searched. His office was searched. But this investigation has been going on for a long time, Aaron, and there's no indication that there's been anything new between the initial spurt of activity and today.
BROWN: Got it. Kelli, thank you very much, Kelli Arena in Washington tonight.
There is, as we already touched upon, a combustible political mixture swirling around this one, with more on that aspect of the story from Capitol Hill tonight, CNN's Joe Johns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOE JOHNS, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Top congressional Republicans spent the day pounding away at the Berger allegations.
REP. DENNIS HASTERT (R), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I am troubled to hear that one of the members of the Clinton administration, Sandy Berger, pilfered documents from the archives.
JOHNS: House Speaker Dennis Hastert had already put out a statement asking, "Did these documents detail simple negligence or did they contain something more sinister? Was this a bungled attempt to rewrite history and keep critical information from the 9/11 Commission?" House Majority Leader Tom DeLay said the allegations, if true, could be a national security crisis.
REP. TOM DELAY (R), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: But it looks like to me that this is just a third rate burglary.
JOHNS: Senate Republicans pitched in as well.
SEN. SAXBY CHAMBLISS (R), GEORGIA: And I, as a member of the Intelligence Committee, I deal with classified documents every single day. We know better and Sandy Berger knew better.
JOHNS: Berger has been an informal adviser to John Kerry and congressional Republicans, as well as the Bush campaign, asked whether the Kerry campaign had benefited from any of the information on national security that Berger took. A spokesman for the Kerry campaign flatly denied it but Berger said he was stepping aside until the matter is resolved. Congressional Democrats fired back the furor was election year politics questioning whether the president's allies timed the leak to distract from the 9/11 Commission report coming out Thursday, their evidence an investigation going on for months is just now becoming public.
SEN. TOM DASCHLE (D-SD), MINORITY LEADER: I do think the timing is very curious given this has been underway now for this long. Somebody leaked it obviously with an intent, I think, to do damage to Mr. Berger and I think that's unfortunate.
JOHNS: Berger's former boss also cited the timing but gave him a vote of confidence.
BILL CLINTON, FMR. PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think that the innocent explanation is the most likely one, particularly given the facts involved and I know him. He's a good man. He's worked his heart out for this country.
JOHNS (on camera): Speaker Hastert has said the House of Representatives wants the truth. Besides the criminal probe that is now underway, a senior Republican leadership aide tells CNN a congressional investigation is a possibility.
Joe Johns, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: We're joined now from Cape Cod, and we suspect his summer vacation, by David Gergen who is a colleague of Mr. Berger's and, of course, has been a distinguished adviser to four presidents, President Nixon, Ford, Reagan and President Clinton. Mr. Gergen currently teaches at Harvard University's Kennedy School of Government and we are always pleased to see him.
Well, well, well, David, what do you think we have here?
DAVID GERGEN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: Well, Aaron, I must tell you to underscore it in the beginning, I am a friend of Sandy Berger's and I have utmost faith in his integrity and believe he has served this country enormously well. He's one of the heroes in the war on terrorism in my book. Let me just say I think this has been blown way out of proportion and it is much more innocent than it looks.
Let's get a couple of things very clear. In late 1999, as the millennium celebration approached, the United States had a lot of warnings that terrorists were about to strike.
Sandy Berger went into a bunker for three or four nights, 24 hours a day practically, working with a team and they thwarted that terrorism, those attempted terrorist attacks. One of them was going to be to take out the Los Angeles Airport and there were other strikes intended. They stopped those attacks.
After it was over, he went back to Richard Clarke, yes that Richard Clarke, who was working on his staff and said, "Richard, write up a report on what we've done and let's have a self analysis on what we've done." That's the underlying document that's in question, this millennium report that's based on what he did to stop a terrorism attack.
Now, when the 9/11 Commission came along and said, "Mr. Berger, we want you to come up here and be well versed in the documents surrounding your time as national security adviser regarding terrorism, go into, you know, review all the documents." He went into the National Archives and poured over these documents and in some cases lots and lots of pages.
Now, he did make two mistakes and he admits this and he was sloppy about it. He took notes on what he was reading so he'd be prepared for his testimony and he stuck the notes in his pocket and walked away. That is a technical violation of archival rules.
The second thing he did was he did, as he had all these papers on the desk, he did mix in copies of the original document and got them into his briefcase and, I'm sloppy too so I can appreciate this, he lost a couple of them.
BROWN: David.
GERGEN: So, but let me finish this one point, Aaron, which is critical.
BROWN: OK.
GERGEN: What he lost and what is missing now are copies of original documents and the originals are still there and they've been made available to the 9/11 Commission. There had been no break in the paper trail. There is no harm to national security here. Nothing has occurred which has impaired or threatened national security and there's no advantage to anybody because the documents are in front of the 9/11 Commission, the originals.
BROWN: Then, David, by implication you are suggesting that the puffery that we heard on Capitol Hill today was simply politically motivated stuff?
GERGEN: Well, I have to tell you, Aaron, if I were working on Capitol Hill for one of the Republicans, and I've worked for Republicans in the past, as you well know, I'm sure I would have wanted to join in the fray and pile on and make a whoop-de-doo about this because the 9/11 Commission is coming out and the campaign is coming out.
I do believe, I've talked to his lawyer in this case and Lanny Breuer, Sandy Berger's lawyer, talked to the Justice Department months ago and said, "Gentlemen, let's respect each other here. I will respect your commission. I want you to respect us and be no leaks, especially" he said "just before the 9/11 Commission report."
Now, 48 hours or so before the 9/11 Commission report, boom, you know, something which has been, you know, that Berger hasn't talked to the Justice Department since April suddenly this becomes an issue, is that not suspicious? I would submit it is.
I do think, of course, we should have a full and frank understanding of what happened. We need all the facts on the table but at the end of the day it does seem to me there's a lot less here than meets the eye and this is a man of enormous integrity who ought to be thanked for what he did in stopping the attacks over the millennium.
BROWN: David, good to see you. Thank you much.
GERGEN: Thank you, Aaron.
BROWN: David Gergen from Cape Cod tonight.
In other news, in Saudi Arabia another in a series of police raids aimed at members of al Qaeda and other Islamic militant groups. They have always been volatile but tonight even more so it seems.
So we turn to Riyadh and CNN's Nic Robertson -- Nic.
ROBERTSON: Aaron, (AUDIO GAP) several hundred police (AUDIO GAP) antiterrorist forces (AUDIO GAP) national guard (AUDIO GAP) the northern city (AUDIO GAP) again saw (AUDIO GAP).
BROWN: All right. Well, obviously we're having a little videophone audio problem. We'll try and sort that out. We'll give you more details on what happened in Riyadh but three al Qaeda figures or terrorist figures at least were killed in the attack. We don't know how many, if any, Saudi security forces were wounded. We'll get more from Nic. Hopefully, we can sort that out as we go.
Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, a hostage freed in Iraq, another one country complies with terror demands what that might mean for the rest of the coalition, a most disturbing story out of Iraq.
And 35 years after man landed on the moon those who lived it and sometimes reported it remember it.
Around the world and tonight at least out of this world as well this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: On to Iraq where one life has been spared and others perhaps put in jeopardy. That's the hypothesis being tested. Will giving into kidnappers lead to more kidnappings, more beheadings down the road? Not an easy question, for now simply an open question.
From Baghdad tonight here's CNN's Matthew Chance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE (voice-over): For two weeks he had the threat of brutal execution hanging over him. Now this Filipino truck driver, looking tired and worn, is in safe hands delivered by his captors to the embassy of the United Arab Emirates in Baghdad. UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): At 10:30 this morning we were surprised with the handing over of the Filipino hostage and the kidnappers ran away. He is in good health and we've agreed to move him to Abu Dhabi for medical checks.
CHANCE: But this is freedom at a price. Angelo de la Cruz was abducted on July the 7th, one of many kidnappings of foreigners in recent months. His captors vowed to behead him unless Filipino troops in Iraq were withdrawn early few believed they would accept.
At first the government in Manila resisted but on Monday the last of their small contingent of 51 soldiers on a humanitarian mission was pulled out. It was a blow for the U.S. led coalition, a setback for the Iraqi government it supports.
NOSHYAR ZEBARI, INTERIM IRAQI FOREIGN MINISTER: This would be -- will repeat itself.
CHANCE: It is a bad precedent, said Iraq's interim foreign minister, and it sends the wrong message and rewards the terrorists. It's not the first time though that meeting kidnapper's demands has secured a release in Iraq.
Earlier this week an Egyptian worker was set free after the company that employs him, a Saudi Arabian transport firm, ended its operations in the country. Others have done the same.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CHANCE: The insurgents and the kidnappers are already starting to issue new threats on Web sites linked with the notorious Jordanian- borne militant Abu Musab Zarqawi saying they're warning all Arab and Muslim countries not to let their government send their armed forces to support the interim Iraqi government here, also giving a specific threat against the Japanese people.
Japan, of course, has a small humanitarian contingent already here. The Web sites linked to Zarqawi saying that Japan should do the same as the Philippines and pull out their troops as soon as possible.
BROWN: Do we assume anything by the fact that they seem to target not countries, there aren't many countries with large contingencies there or contingents there rather but the Poles have several thousand, for example, but they tend to target those countries with really a handful of troops there.
CHANCE: Well, I think they're trying to target anybody they can get their hands on. I think it's pretty much a tactic that's really coming into fruition right now. People are on the lookout for possible targets to kidnap and obviously the westerners whose countries are involved in the coalition in some way are the prime targets.
But even though citizens of countries who don't have anything to do with the coalition directly people perhaps who work for companies that are involved in Iraq they're also being targeted. It's just being used as a way, a means of exerting pressure on either countries or companies operating in Iraq.
BROWN: Matt, thank you, good to see you. Thank you very much.
Coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight, it seems like a new successful medical trial is announced almost every day, but barely a word about the unsuccessful ones and, to many, the bad news is important to know.
And later, too much of a good thing in Boston as the city prepares to welcome a political convention and protect it from terrorists.
From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There are certain leaps of faith we take where our health is concerned. You might assume, for instance, that your doctor has carefully weighed the pros and cons of whatever drug he or she prescribes for you but what if the cons are hidden from view? This, as it turns out, is not an academic question.
Here's CNN's Elizabeth Cohen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Candace (ph) Downing's parents say the first hint they had that their 12-year- old daughter might be suicidal was when they found her hanging from her bedroom ceiling.
ANDY DOWNING: We called the paramedics and they tried feverishly to revive her and I was trying to give her mouth-to-mouth resuscitation but I knew something was wrong because her body was cold.
COHEN: Mathy and Andy Downing blame their daughter's suicide on the drug Zoloft used to treat anxiety and depression. A psychiatrist prescribed it because Candace became anxious when taking tests at school. Her parents say she wasn't suicidal, wasn't even depressed before she began the medication.
MATHY DOWNING: She was very into sports, a ton of friends, probably the most social child I've ever met.
COHEN: Whether or not drugs like Zoloft really do cause suicides is a matter of medical debate with studies supporting both sides but now another debate has emerged.
The Downings and other families charge that drug makers knew from pre-marketing studies that these drugs made some children and teens suicidal but hid the study results.
Pfizer, which makes Zoloft, wouldn't comment on the Downing case because the family has filed a lawsuit. The company referred us to the corporate policy on its Web site which states:
"Pfizer commits to timely communication of meaningful results of controlled clinical trials regardless of outcome."
COHEN (on camera): By law drug companies have to tell the Food and Drug Administration about all their studies when they apply for permission to put their drug on the market but the FDA, also by law, is not allowed to release those studies to the public.
DR. BOB TEMPLE, FDA: We're not allowed to release confidential commercial information. It's illegal. It's a crime.
COHEN (voice-over): Patients aren't the only ones feeling kept in the dark. Doctors also say they're deprived of information and are now pushing for a change in the rules.
The American Medical Association says drug companies should be required to submit their study results, negative as well as positive, to a central registry accessible to anyone via the Internet.
Dr. David Fassler, an expert on childhood depression wrote the AMA registry proposal. He says he was shocked by what happened when he reviewed data on young people and antidepressants at an FDA meeting six months ago.
DR. DAVID FASSLER, UNIV. OF VERMONT COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: I was given access to data from 25 clinical studies, most of which I'd never seen before or I hadn't hear about. There were maybe three or four major studies that were in the literature which we all knew about but we didn't realize that there were this many studies involving 4,000 children and adolescents.
COHEN: The pharmaceutical industry hasn't taken an official position on the AMA's registry idea but has some concerns.
ALAN GOLDHAMMER, PHARM RESEARCH AND MANUFACTURERS OF AMERICA: We don't think that practicing physicians are going to have the time spent pouring through tens of thousands of pages of clinical studies.
COHEN: Dr. Fassler disagrees.
FASSLER: This is clearly something which is going to help people. It's going to improve the quality of health care. It's going to improve our ability as physicians to take care of people.
COHEN: Two months after Candace Downing's death the FDA, after further review of the research, urged doctors to closely monitor patients on drugs like Zoloft for suicidal behavior. The Downings say that's not enough and they're lobbying Congress to require drug companies to make all research public.
Elizabeth Cohen, Laytonsville, Maryland.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: One quick update on a story we did last night on the program on the Chinese doctor Jung Yung Yong (ph). He's the surgeon you might recall who first blew the whistle on the government's cover- up of the SARS epidemic and, then more recently, wrote a letter criticizing the crushing protests 15 years ago at Tiananmen Square. It made him a dissident in the eyes of the government and landed him in jail. Today, after seven weeks, the Chinese government let him go.
Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, 35 years after man walked on the moon the agency that put them there brings them back together.
And also tonight a special edition of morning papers, a break first.
From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Thirty-five years ago tonight, Neil Armstrong stepped on to the moon. To give you some idea of how long ago that is, consider this.
On the 20th of July, 1934, 35 years before Apollo 11, manned flight of any kind, let alone in space, was just 30 years old. Today, 35 years after Apollo 11, the next moon landing remains far in the future, if it ever happens at all. Now, just as then, there's a war on, a global enemy out there, and others, some say better, uses for NASA money. In this at least, little has changed. And the 20th of July 1969 keeps getting farther away in time and space.
Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NEIL ARMSTRONG, NASA ASTRONAUT: That's one small step for man.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN SPACE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Thirty-five years after that one small step, the right stuff icons of the space race gathered once again, older and grayer, to be sure, but by no means jaded.
BUZZ ALDRIN, FORMER NASA ASTRONAUT: We need to send humans back to the moon on this stepping-stone approach to be able to go to Mars.
O'BRIEN: It was yet another pat on the back from NASA, this time in the form of moon rocks, tiny pebbles, really, technically on loan from the space agency, as federal law makes them the permanent property of all of us.
WALTER CRONKITE, FORMER CBS NEWS ANCHOR: Receiving a piece of moon rock is a newie for me because a lot of people already think we have already have a piece sitting on our desk.
O'BRIEN: NASA so honored 37 astronauts or their survivors and one icon from another arena. CBS anchorman Walter Cronkite covered the space program from its inception.
CRONKITE: I will say tonight that I feel that I am there to represent the press, all of those of us who followed the program through from the beginning and interpreted for the American people. O'BRIEN: The celebration comes as NASA once again sets its sights on the moon as a waypoint to Mars. The Bush administration's initiative looms tentatively over this anniversary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm very anxious to be here to bass the baton to the next young man or young woman who walks on the moon.
O'BRIEN: There will never be another event like it. Fueled by Cold War fears and the desire to meet the bold challenge of a martyred president, it was a 21st century technological achievement willed to happen ahead of its time.
SEAN O'KEEFE, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: It was about a race. It was about coming in first. And the price for coming in second was catastrophic. Today, it's a journey. It's developing capacities with a plan, with a thought, with a longer-term set of objectives of what you can do and where you can go.
O'BRIEN: That rush to be first to plant flags and footprints led to a disposable approach, with no thought of what the next goal might be. As a result, Apollo had an ironic result.
ROGER LAUNIUS, SPACE HISTORIAN: Because of the way in which Apollo was -- as a program that was built around a Cold War crisis, that accomplishing those very limited objectives set us back in the long-term exploration of space.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Over the years, as the space community gathered to celebrate Apollo anniversaries, the occasions became increasingly bittersweet. Many wondered with some sadness if NASA would ever live up to its storied past. This time, the space agency is officially trying and for the explorers of the space race, there could be no better way to celebrate their achievements than that.
And, Aaron, incidentally, I was at the Air and Space Museum all day today. There were some sixth graders there. I asked them who the first person on the moon was and they all said Lance Armstrong.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Well, they got it half right.
O'BRIEN: I would give them 50 percent.
BROWN: You're a fair amount I think younger than I am. Do you remember the day?
O'BRIEN: Yes. I was 10 years old in the basement of my house watching it on the only color TV we had. What was the point of that? It was black and white and grainy. And I also remember straining to stay up for the whole time they were on the moon. I fell asleep.
BROWN: I stayed awake. I was a fair amount older. Thank you, Miles, very much. It is a rare moment that stops the world in its tracks. Normally, we wouldn't use a phrase like that. It would ring of cliche. But 35 years ago today, when Apollo 11 hit its mark and set down on the moon, much of the world did indeed stop in its tracks, transfixed by the improbable made real.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ARMSTRONG: Tranquility Base here. The Eagle has landed.
BROWN: For those who lived it, the memories are vivid still, not so much for the grandeur of it all, but for the risks and the reality.
GENE KRANZ, FLIGHT DIRECTOR, APOLLO 11: The spacecraft was literally so fragile that if you took a screwdriver, you could poke your screwdriver right through the wall of the spacecraft.
ALDRIN: We extended our final approach to miss some rocks and craters.
CRONKITE: Those of us who knew the problems and were living with the problems realized that, with each one of those successes, there was in the immediate offing the imminence of disaster, utter disaster.
KRANZ: And as we got close to surface, we were running out of fuel. And during the last few seconds, we'd count down the crew to the seconds of fuel remaining. And we had 60 seconds, 30 seconds. And about the time that I was hearing 15 seconds, we got the indications that the crew was going through engine shutdown. And that was the first time many of us took a breath for those last two minutes.
BROWN: So much has happened in science and in the world at large in the 35 years since men walked on the moon first, but what happened that night still has an adhesive hold on our collective imagination.
NEIL DEGRASSE TYSON, ASTROPHYSICIST: Since, at the time, only age 10, I knew that the universe was for me and that it was something that I would devote my life to study, at the time, I viewed the moon landing as just our next step.
BROWN: Some, of course, didn't think it actually happened at all.
SPIKE LEE, FILMMAKER: I think I was in Macon, Georgia, visiting my grandmother's sister. And we said, sister, sister, a man walked on the moon. She said, I don't care what's on television. Ain't no man walking on the moon.
CRONKITE: Whew. Boy.
BROWN: But television proved it did, the nation's common denominator once again. And the man delivering the news to the nation that day is convinced that that anniversary will endure.
CRONKITE: July 20, 1969, I'm sure, is going to be perhaps the one historical date that children 500 years from now will recognize. And why can I be sure of that? I'm sure of that because think back 500 years now. It was a very important age in Europe. Things were developing there at some pace. And what is the date that is remembered? October 12, 1492.
BROWN: An experience so unique, so rare that the world became one.
HOLLY HUNTER, ACTRESS: We haven't had anything like that happen, you know, culturally. It's also fantastic that everybody in the world was watching that at the same time, you know, that it was happening at the same time, which means that everybody was tuned in and looking at this one man at the same second. We don't have that cumulative communal experience, that global experience anymore.
BROWN: You can argue, of course, that these days, with so many television channels, so much information, that all major events are global, but not in the way it was on that single midsummer's day in 1969. As they say, you had to be there. And for those of us who were, for those of us who looked up at that summer sky, for those of us, there will never be another feeling quite like it, a feeling of such discovery and pride.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still ahead on the program tonight, unwelcome and some say unnecessary, new ways of protecting a political convention.
And we promise it will be worth waiting for. It is always worth waiting for, tonight especially. Morning papers looks back 35 years ago.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Nearly three years after the 2001 anthrax killings, FBI investigators today returned to Fort Detrick in Maryland, where they searched part of a research lab for evidence in the unsolved case. The lab facility has been closed since Friday. Fort Detrick is home to the Army's biological warfare defense program. And it is where former Army researcher Steven Hatfill once worked.
Mr. Hatfill was named by Attorney General John Ashcroft as a person of interest in the case. Mr. Hatfill also has strongly denied any wrongdoing and has never been charged with any crime.
Next week in Boston will mark another first in the post-9/11 world. When Democratic delegates meet to nominate their candidates for president and vice president, they'll do so under unprecedented security for such an occasion, unprecedented and to some at least unwelcome.
From Boston tonight, CNN's Dan Lothian.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN BOSTON BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): It's a massive security blanket covering Boston during the Democratic National Convention. In the harbor, armed Coast Guard units and new Boston Police speedboats.
KATHLEEN O'TOOLE, BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Capable of heading off threatening vessels at speeds up to 70 miles an hour.
LOTHIAN: Across town for the first time at least 75 high-tech cameras wired into a temporary surveillance network. Manhole covers have been sealed. Garbage cans and newspaper stands, potential hiding places for bombs, have been removed.
THOMAS MENINO (D), MAYOR OF BOSTON: The people of Boston can feel assured knowing that our city is more secure than ever.
LOTHIAN: But that tight security grip troubles some residents, who worry too much of a good thing may cross the line.
PROTESTERS (singing): We are no more safe than in the streets of Boston.
LOTHIAN: These protesters recently took to the streets calling the city's plans to conduct random person bag checks on the train system during the DNC week unconstitutional.
CAROL ROSE, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ACLU: It is going to violate the fundamental right to privacy while potentially bringing the entire system to a standstill.
LOTHIAN: Civil rights advocates are poised to file lawsuits to challenge searches and halt them once they begin.
URSZULA MASNY-LATOS, NATIONAL LAWYERS GUILD: If we allow these searches to happen, what will be our next step? Are we going to allow searches of all cars? Are we going to allow searches of everyone who enters a mall? Where are we going to stop with this?
LOTHIAN (on camera): The ACLU is also concerned about all the surveillance cameras which will be keeping a close eye on activity across the city, raising questions about oversight and safeguards, fearful that they could be used for the wrong reasons.
(voice-over): But law enforcement officials say they're just targeting criminals, not snooping on the general public, and that all the security measures, while inconvenient, are necessary.
O'TOOLE: This is a different world today. It's is post-9/11 world. We have to err on the side of caution.
LOTHIAN: Some residents are understanding.
RICHARD GROSSACK, BOSTON COMMUTER: You have to be somewhat sympathetic, no matter how much of a civil liberties person you are.
LOTHIAN: The law enforcement challenge, working to keep Boston safe and free.
Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Steve Flynn is a retired U.S. Coast Guard commander and a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations. He's directed the council's Independent Task Force On Homeland Security and also has written "America the Vulnerable." And he joins us from Washington tonight.
It's good to see you.
You said to us earlier that on a scale of one to 10, we've gone from one to about three. Just quickly, in an open society, can you ever get to 10 in terms of security?
STEPHEN FLYNN, AUTHOR, "AMERICA THE VULNERABLE": No. And the goal isn't to necessarily be at 10.
But it really is to have adequate security to deal with the threat that's confronting us. And I worry that while we're protecting the conventions, the Democratic Convention, the story you just showed, and the Republican Convention, what we're not going to talk about inside those conventions is what are we really doing as a nation to address the vulnerability of our critical infrastructure that underpins our society.
We've made the war on terrorism a war that we handle overseas, instead of addressing the core reality of 9/11, which were, the terrorists were here and they used our infrastructure against us, in that case, commercial airliners. We haven't dealt with the fact that we're a very soft target. And beginning to address that issue is something I try to call for in this book, is absolutely critical.
BROWN: Steve, let's talk quickly about some of the things that you believe should have been done by now that haven't been done. Port security anywhere near where it should be?
FLYNN: No. The port security situation is, we're basically in a wide-open situation.
There is a lot of steps that have begun to be taken, but they're small steps, they're really baby steps, given the threat. The threat is that we have up to 18 million containers, for instance, for which a weapon of mass destruction could be put in and brought into society of which we check about 5 percent. Now, the problem isn't just that one could get in. It's that our response when something happens will be to shut down the system to sort it out.
Why is that a problem? That's everything we get from a Wal-Mart. That's everything -- that's getting in pharmacies, prescription drugs. That's shutting assembly lines. Three weeks of shutting down our ports could shut down the global economy. That's a national security issue of the first order, but we're not treating it as such. We're treating it as a domestic security issue that we can plod along and hope for the best.
BROWN: Just give me again, as briefly as you can, your sense of why what would seem to be fairly obvious steps haven't been taken.
FLYNN: Well, I think one of the reasons why is because we've a bit deluded ourselves into thinking that we can handle this problem by taking the battle to the enemy overseas, when, in fact there is no central front on the war in terrorism.
And it is not that we don't do an offense. It is that we can walk and chew gum at the same time. We can deal with the offense and deal with the fact that we need a defense as well. Football games are sometimes won by good defense. The other side of it is, it's complicated. Is it hard. And we haven't drawn in, we the people, the civil society, the men and women of the society in the private sector into the solution.
We've been told to shop and travel, that we'd be taken care of. And it's that lack of engagement that I think is creating the suspicion that people have about the government, the civil liberty concerns and so forth, because we're not being drawn in as citizens to address this problem. So, politically, it's an uncomfortable problem. It's a complicated problem. And we're seduced into thinking that, if we just work more vigilantly overseas, maybe it will all go away.
BROWN: Steve, there's a lot more to talk about. We'll have to have you back to do on a night when we've got a bit more time. It's nice to meet you. Thanks for your time tonight.
FLYNN: Thanks so much, Aaron.
BROWN: Thank you.
Still ahead tonight, morning papers past and present.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers from around the country, around the world, past and present. I'm so disorganized tonight, it scares me.
Let's start with "The Manila Times." That would be in the Philippines. That's the "around the world" part. "Angelo Is Freed." That's a good lead for them; "14-Day Ordeal Ends For Filipino Driver." No, I'm sure somewhere in the paper, they get into the pros and cons of pulling out their troops, but it's not there on the front page.
"Chattanooga Times Free Press." "Emergency Room Shutdown." This is a good local story, isn't it? "Area Facilities Closed For New Patients Almost 450 Times in a Year." Also on the front page, "Report Won't Say 9/11 Was Avoidable. Members of September 11 commission say they want to present the facts and not allow their work to be used for political purposes." Lots of luck there, guys. A couple of them will be joining us next week.
"The Detroit News." Then we're going to go do some old ones. "Ford Makes $1.2 Billion But Trouble Looms Ahead." Talk about whether the cup is half full or half empty, my goodness.
All right, 35 years ago, this is how "The New York Times" headlined the night, the day. "Men Walk On Moon." I love that headline. I mean, it's just straight ahead. "Astronauts Land On Plan, Collect Rocks, Plant Flag. A Powdery Surface Is Closely Explored." And down in the corner, you can't really see this too well, but "The Times" published a poem by Archibald MacLeish called "Voyage to the Moon." That's what -- these pictures I suspect looked a whole lot better than they looked to us. But that's "The New York Times."
One more quick look at it, will you, Chris? "Men Walk On Moon."
OK, "The Christian Science Monitor" on that day, a little more poetry here. "Mankind Embraces the Moon, a Milestone, Not a Finish Line. Humanity's greatest triumphs are those that come through peace, intelligence, inspiration, not war," part of the editorial in "The Christian Science Monitor" that day.
"The Courier-Post," I'm not sure where that's from. We Shine on the Moon" was their headline.
And here is "The Wapakoneta" -- I hope I pronounced that right -- "Daily News" in Iowa. "Neil" -- that would be Neil Armstrong, a hometown boy -- "Steps On the Moon." "Armstrong, Aldrin Set For Hazardous Return," 35 years ago. Do I love this story? Yes, I do.
The weather tomorrow in Chicago, by the way, is "fiddlesticks." And I have no idea what it was 35 years ago.
And this is what it looked like 35 years ago right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ARMSTRONG: Although the surface appears to be very, very fine- grained as you get close to it, it is almost like a powder. The ground mass is very fine.
And I'm going to step off the LEM. That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind.
ALDRIN: Oh, that looks beautiful from here, Neil.
ARMSTRONG: It has a stark beauty all its own. It's like much of the high desert of the United States.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Thirty-five years ago, our world changed. It grew larger. It seems to have grown smaller ever since.
Good to have you with us tonight. We're all back here tomorrow. "LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" for most of you coming up. We're back 10:00 Eastern. Until then, good night for all of us.
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