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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Live from the Democratic National Convention
Aired July 28, 2004 - 22:50 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BLITZER: Let's get a different perspective, shall we say a very different perspective. Ralph Reed, a Republican leader in the state of Georgia and active in the Bush-Cheney campaign. Give us your sense of it?
RALPH REED, BUSH CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Wolf, I think that John Edwards is a good speaker. We knew that going in. But I'll be honest with you, what really struck me about the speech, seven pages, probably somewhere between 700 and 1,000 words. He didn't mention one thing about John Kerry's record in the U.S. Senate. He went back 30, 35 years to talk about his service in Vietnam, which we all honor. But he didn't talk about the fact that John Kerry has consistently over 19 years voted for higher taxes, deep cuts in intelligence and voted to cut or kill every major weapons system that's winning the war against terrorism. That's why we have a campaign. And I think once we join that debate, I don't think John Kerry's going to sell in the heartland of America.
BLITZER: How worried are you right now about getting President Bush and Vice President Cheney re-elected?
REED: Well, I'm not overconfident. But we're working hard. We're running as if we're behind. We're running like we're the challenger and not the incumbent. I'll tell you this right now, I'm absolutely confident that when we have our convention in New York next month, the president gets an opportunity to have the contrast between Kerry's record of higher taxes, deep cuts in military spending and intelligence and being out of the mainstream on cultural values that he's going to be re-elected because of his positive optimistic vision for the future of our country.
BLITZER: Victoria Clark worked for the election of President Bush four years ago. She's now a CNN (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Pentagon spokeswoman. What did you make of this John Edwards presentation?
I don't think we have Victoria Clark there.
Let me bring back Ralph Reed. Ralph, as you take a look at how you will fight this Democratic party as right now it must cause you some great concern.
REED: No, not really. I think what you have, Wolf, is the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate, John Kerry, who picked the fourth most liberal member of the U.S. Senate, John Edwards, to represent this party and even this week it's being reporter that they've gone off the air in (UNINTELLIGIBLE). They've gone off the air in Arkansas. They've reduced their media buy in Missouri.
Their map and a state they're fighting in is shrinking and ours is getting larger. And I think not only will George W. Bush carry a solid South with its 171 electoral votes but I think he's going to overperform in the industrial heartland as well.
BLITZER: All right. Judy Woodruff wants to weigh in as well. Judy, go ahead.
WOODRUFF: Ralph, what about the point that John Edwards made that we the Democrats want to the country in a positive direction but he says what have we seen in the last weeks, relentless negative against John. He said, "aren't we sick of it." Could that end up being a liability for your (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
REED: Well, you know, I think the voters can see through that rhetoric. I mean, John Edwards said that George W. Bush couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.
We sat on the front row, Judy, of a fundraiser in New York City a few weeks ago and listened to Hollywood entertainers call the president a thug, a killer and a liar, and he didn't utter one word of condemnation. So I think that's a little self-serving.
What I think is this: You can't serve in the U.S. Senate for 19 years, vote for higher taxes 350 times, advocate $7.4 billion in intelligence cuts one year after the first World Trade Center attack and not have your opposition talk about it.
BLITZER: Jeff Greenfield?
GREENFIELD: Ralph, hi. It's Jeff Greenfield. I know that you, like your rivals, have the talking points down, but there's one (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I'd like you to address. Every survey right now says more Americans would rather get a new president than keep the old one. On a baseline level -- and you are one of the smartest political operatives I know -- that cannot be the way you want to go into this fall election?
REED: Well, you know, look, Jeff, I would just point to the ABC News/"Washington Post" poll that came out today that has the president ahead by 2 among registered voters, up 1 among likely voters, and a job approval of 50 percent. There's another poll with the president's job approval at 51. And this is after they've had a week or two weeks to advertise their veep pick.
So no president in modern times has not been reelected with a job approval of 50 percent or higher. That's about where George W. Bush is, and he's going to be reelected in November.
BLITZER: What about the war in Iraq? You heard the references to the war in Iraq. You heard what John Edwards just had to say, that they've got a plan to bring the allies together and not go it alone. That's a tough criticism of the way the Bush administration has effectively handled the war in Iraq. REED: Yes. And I have to say it's also a false and misplaced criticism. You know, John Kerry called the coalition in Iraq a coalition of the bribed and the coerced. The truth is, Wolf, there have been over 30 nations with troops on the ground in Iraq helping, including Japan, Great Britain, Poland, 17 of 26 NATO nations.
And I want you to think about this for a minute because this is going to come out in this campaign. There's only four members of the U.S. Senate who voted to send our men and women into combat and then voted not to give them the $87 billion in combat pay, health-care benefits, and body armor and ammunition they needed to win the war.
That position is out of the mainstream, and, of those four U.S. Senators, two of them, John Kerry and John Edwards, are on this ticket, and that's not going to sell in the heartland of our country.
BLITZER: Ralph Reed, thanks very much for joining us. Good to get your perspective on this night as well.
What's happening right now on the floor of the convention is the roll call. They are starting the roll call. Let's listen in briefly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am Joe Reeve (ph) vice chair of the Alabama delegation. On behalf of Redding Pitt, our state chair, Amy Berka (ph), our vice chair, our two Democratic Congressman Burt Cramer and Artur Davis, the state with the highest percentage of black elected officials in the nation proudly yields to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to nominate the next president of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Alabama.
Alabama yields to Massachusetts.
And, Massachusetts, you have 121 votes.
Massachusetts?
CAM KERRY, MASSACHUSETTS DELEGATE: Madam Secretary, my name is Cam Kerry. I'm here with my sister, Diana. We know that when it is on the line, there's nobody we want by our side more than our brother, John. The people of Massachusetts know that, and, as America comes to know that, we proudly cast 121 votes for John Kerry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Cameron Kerry.
Massachusetts casts 121 votes for John Kerry.
Alaska? Alaska, you have 18 votes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madam Secretary, the State of Alaska, the great land, the last frontier, proudly yields to the home of the next vice president of the United States, North Carolina.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: North Carolina, you have 107 votes. How do you cast them?
BARBARA ALLEN, NORTH CAROLINA DELEGATE: Madam Secretary, I'm Barbara Allen, chair of the North Carolina...
BLITZER: The States of Alabama and Alaska, the first two states alphabetically have both yielded, have both allowed the States of Massachusetts and North Carolina to cast the first votes for the Democratic nomination for the president and the vice president. That is the traditiion.
This is going to go on for about an hour and a half or so, this roll call. Once it's all done, of course, there's no doubt who's going to be the Democratic nominee for the presidency or for the vice presidency. We'll continue to watch the roll call. We'll continue, in fact, to watch all the developments here.
We also have by Aaron Brown who's standing by for a special edition "NEWSNIGHT," a complete wrap-up of all the developments, plus all of the reaction.
We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
RALPH CAMPBELL, NORTH CAROLINA DELEGATE: Madam Secretary, I'm state auditor Ralph Campbell, Jr., the first African-American elected to a constitutional office in the great state of North Carolina. We cast our votes as follows: 4 votes for Dennis Kucinich -- and I am extremely proud and honored to cast 102 votes for John Kerry and John Edwards, the next president and vice president of the United States of America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The 5,000 delegates and alternates here at the Democratic Convention in Boston -- they're now voting for the nomination for the presidency and the vice presidency. Arkansas voting right now. General Wesley Clark representing Arkansas. This will continue for about an hour and a half.
We're going to wrap it up from here at the Democratic National Convention. For Judy Woodruff and Jeff Greenfield, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Boston.
Aaron Brown picks up our coverage now with a special edition of "NEWSNIGHT" -- Aaron.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Good evening again, everyone.
In Boston tonight, as you've been following it, the Democratic candidates are doing what they came to do at the FleetCenter. They are now casting their votes to make the presumptive official, and we'll dip in and out of that throughout the evening. They're formally handing John Kerry and John Edwards the Democratic Party's nomination.
Tonight, the number two man on the ticket, John Edwards of North Carolina, took center stage. Senator Kerry's speech, a hugely important speech for him, comes tomorrow. Day three of the convention was a time for more buildup and, for us, lots of ground to cover in the next 45 or 50 minutes or so.
Once again, we begin with a quick whip around the hall, the stories tonight and the correspondents who cover them, our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield, our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley, and John King, our senior White House correspondent. Another senior moment.
It's good to have you all.
Jeff, you're the former speechwriter in the group. What did John Edwards have to do, and in your opinion -- we heard Ralph Reed's opinion -- in your opinion, did he get it done?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Yeah, there were a couple of different goals here, Aaron. One was to -- one of the things he was doing is to present to a bigger audience the two Americas speeches that made him -- sorry, two Americas speech that made him a formidable candidate. The second thing, and particularly the overriding thematic theme, and this one I think he pulled off quite well, was to infuse his speech with a sense of optimism. That's why they chose, as the litany at the end, hope is on the way. That's not just a little parody or riff off Dick Cheney's help is on the way, but using the word hope, talking about optimism, having his wife describe him as the most optimistic man I've ever seen. That sort of helps not just John Edwards, but the John Kerry sense that he can't be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) or nay-sayer.
But the third thing that they had to do, and I think there is -- I would say that this was a more mixed result -- is to present him as a man of substance. On his domestic presentation, the specifics I think worked. They certainly worked in the hall. On the international stuff, on the war on Iraq -- remember, he is a member of the Intelligence Committee, but he has less foreign policy credentials than any of the other three candidates at this point. I think the jury may still be out on that, and I thought that the rhetoric was a tad less certain and surer than it was on the domestic front, because that's partly where John Edwards is coming from. There is no question that this man is a communicator, is really a first-rate one, Wolf -- I'm sorry, Aaron.
BROWN: Wolf, Aaron, what's the difference. We're all paid by the same company.
On the gravitas point, the foreign policy experience, the test for Senator Edwards, perhaps then the debate with Dick Cheney, with Vice President Cheney?
GREENFIELD: Yeah, absolutely. Democrats have been licking their chops at the prospects of this brilliant communicator communicating with Dick Cheney, who is -- who is sometimes a little less, shall we say, electric. But when it comes to foreign policy, the kind of laid back, quiet approach that Cheney has -- John Edwards has to be very careful not to be seen as too eager, too enthusiastic. And that's why I think that debate is going to in some ways be even more interesting than the presidential debate, particularly on the point you mentioned, Aaron -- I've got your name right -- the foreign policy credentials John Edwards brings to that table and podium are really going to be tested then -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeff, thank you.
Let me go to John. That would be John King.
John, did the Republicans hear things in this speech, do you think, that, A, surprised them and, B, they can turn on the Democrats?
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I don't think they heard anything that surprised them, Aaron, but they certainly, as Jeff noted, did hear this trial lawyer's skills.
As a trial lawyer knows, borrow the best evidence your opponent has, and John Edwards stole a line from George Bush tonight in saying that al Qaeda should know that a John Kerry administration would find them, hunt them down, and destroy them. So trying to be very assertive, very muscular, if you will, in the war on terrorism.
I was just reading an e-mail from the Bush-Cheney campaign. Already, they have sent out a lengthy e-mail saying that one thing John Edwards failed to do tonight was mention anything about John Kerry's 19 years in the Senate. They also say he distorted the Bush administration's positions on some things.
And what the Bush campaign says most of all is there may be a great deal of excitement in the hall tonight, Senator Edwards may have scored some points with the American people tonight as an able communicator and as a rising star in the Democratic Party, but the Bush campaign would say -- and what everyone in this hall would acknowledge -- that the election will come down to a choice between George W. Bush and John Kerry, not John Edwards.
And the Bush campaign will continue to make the case that John Edwards fails test, and everyone in this hall again -- and we saw it tonight when the Democrats were cheering the anti-war rhetoric of some of the earlier speeches -- know that Senator Kerry's big challenge, and this is our subject for tomorrow night, is to prove that he can be the commander in chief, to convince the American people to change commanders in chief in the middle of a war -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, this is probably one night premature, but I'll ask it tonight, and perhaps we'll run it by you again tomorrow. Do you think anything's happened in the last three days that will force the president's campaign to adjust in any way?
KING: Well, we've already seen adjustments in that Senator Kerry and the Democrats moved so quickly to embrace the recommendations of the 9/11 commission, a new director of national intelligence, other intelligence reforms, that the Bush campaign, after sending word to Capitol Hill to the Republican leadership that it should slow walk this and say we'll have hearings and consider this next year after the election, the Republican leadership and Congress today said it will hold hearings almost immediately.
So we are seeing a very nimble, if you will, a very quick reaction from the Republicans. They do -- right now, President Bush has an 18-point lead over the Democratic ticket when it comes to the question of: Who do you want to lead the war on terrorism? The Bush campaign is moving very quickly any time it sees the potential that the president might be about to lose that edge.
BROWN: John, thank you.
Candy Crowley was up on the podium.
Candy, give me atmospherics. What was it like in the hall? I watched it on television. All our viewers clearly watched it on television. These things play a little differently on television. What was it like there?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's funny because I get to sort of watch both because I have a television here. I can see what's going out, but I also can see the crowd.
So I have John Kerry's -- I'm sorry -- John Edwards' perspective looking out, and it's just this sea of red and white. Look, this was -- this was the choir, and they loved him, and it was exactly the kind of audience that any politician wants to play off of.
I will tell you, though, that, without all of the paraphernalia and without all of the kind of homogeneous look of the audience and the wild cheering, that Al Sharpton who has a very tough anti-Bush rhetoric, earlier this evening without benefit of a lot of signs (UNINTELLIGIBLE) New York delegation, really seemed to connect in a passionate way.
The -- John Edwards, you know, didn't seem to get to the depth of that. So -- and we do know that this is a -- tends to be a much more anti-war crowd than the ticket is, and so -- but they were quite receptive to Al Sharpton without all the accoutrements and the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that comes with being on the ticket.
Having said that, he got a great welcome, and, obviously, he seemed to relish it at his biggest crowd to date.
BROWN: Candy, thank you.
Jeff, John, thank you.
We'll talk again tomorrow.
As this goes on now to the high points as they actually play it out tonight in the hall. For those of you who haven't been with us since the very beginning of the night back at 8:00, it was another night of big-name speakers -- Candy just alluded to one -- culminating with John Edwards.
But, beginning tonight with what for many in the hall was love's old sweet song.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROWN (voice-over): This night, at least in part, was about themes you could hear, but also themes you could see. Jesse Jackson, who first ran for president in the mid '80s, got a brief spotlight very early in the night.
REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/BUSH COALITION: Let the eagles fly to Washington. It's peacetime. It's justice time. It's homecoming time. It's home going time. It's time to bring our troops home and send Bush back to Texas.
(CHEERS)
JACKSON: The earliest possible, bring the troops home. Send Bush to Texas. It's time to send John Kerry and John Edwards to the White House this November. Keep hope alive.
BROWN: And a brief spotlight, too, on the Reverend Al Sharpton.
REV. AL SHARPTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was those that earned our votes that got our votes. We got the Civil Rights Act under Democrats. We got the Voting Rights Act under Democrats. We got the right to organize under Democrats.
In all due respect, Mr. President, read my lips: Our vote is not for sale!
BROWN: Jennifer Granholm, the governor of a very important heartland state, Michigan, on a big Democratic theme.
GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), MICHIGAN: The bottom line is that Americans are being squeezed. And, today, fathers and mothers who have worked loyally for a company for decades who are fiercely patriotic, who are supporting our troops, who are proudly flying the American flag outside their homes, who cried when the Twin Towers crumbled, those workers are now reading the papers and wondering when is my job going to China, when is my job going to Mexico or to India, am I next. And who is standing up for me? John Kerry will!
BROWN: And now the visual cues as critical perhaps as the verbal ones, at least early in the night: retired generals who support John Kerry highlighted, including General Wesley Clark who ran against him; old Democratic Party nominees on hand as well, Walter Mondale, George McGovern, Michael Dukakis.
But, in the end and most importantly, this night belonged to John Edwards.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Between now and November, you the American people -- you can reject this tired old hateful negative politics of the past and instead you can embrace the politics of hope, the politics of what's possible because this is America where everything is possible.
And we have much work to do because the truth is we still live in a country where there are two different Americas. One for all those people who have lived the American dream and don't' have to worry and another for most Americans and everybody else who struggle to make ends meet every single day. It doesn't have to be that way.
We're going to raise the minimum wage. We're going to finish the job on welfare reform, and we're going to bring good-paying jobs to the places where we need them the most, and, by doing all those things, we're going to say no forever to any American working full- time and living in poverty. Not in our America! Not in our America! Not in our America.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: The highlights of the night coming up on the program still. Our Brown table joins us. Also, a couple of outspoken Democratic supporters and the controversy surrounding one of them.
But, first, again, the Reverend Al Sharpton from tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: I suggest to you tonight that if George Bush had selected the court in '54, Clarence Thomas would have never got to law school.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Time to bring in our Brown table folks.
Nina Easton is the deputy bureau chief for the "Los Angeles" -- no, for "The Boston Globe." My goodness. Terry Neal of washingtonpost.com is with us. And John Harwood who's the political editor of "The Wall Street Journal."
I hate when I get your organizations wrong. But you once did work for the "L.A. Times," so I was close.
NINA EASTON, "THE BOSTON GLOBE": I absolutely did for many years.
BROWN: There you go.
Nina, we'll start with you. Some fuss was made early in the night -- I'm sure that it's lasting fuss; maybe it is, maybe it's not -- about Al Sharpton and going off message and all that. It seemed to me that if you invite Al Sharpton to the party, you've got to expect Al Sharpton to show up.
EASTON: Yes, Al Sharpton definitely provided the red meat that I think some of these delegates are hungry for. He gave a very fiery speech. People were fired up.
But, interestingly, after the speech, on the display board, there were shots of military commanders supporting John Kerry, and there were ex-Republicans or -- I guess I should say Republicans who said that they were going to vote for John Kerry.
So they quickly got the night back on message, if you will.
BROWN: I don't -- you know, it -- again, John, there is -- there are two, three conventions going on, the one that you guys all see in the hall, the one we see at home, the one you write about tomorrow. None of that -- those video screens were seen at home, I don't think, tonight.
JOHN HARWOOD, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": No, I really think this night's about John Edwards. I don't think very many Americans are even going to be aware of what Al Sharpton did.
John Edwards had two jobs tonight. He had to pass a minimal credibility threshold that he could serve as president if necessary -- minimal because he's running for vice president, not president -- and he had to offer some testimony for John Kerry. He did that, although not at much length. He was fairly quick. And then he filled out his two America speech with some of the policy detail.
But you saw tonight some of the political talent that he showed on the trail, especially with that moving line about we're here celebrating tonight, but there is somebody at home who's worried, who can't pay her bills. It's a very effective line.
BROWN: Did he-- why is it so important for...
EASTON: He came off a little bit as a game show host. I mean, he electrified the crowd, but I thought, particularly on the monitors, there was a little bit of the junior quality about him.
BROWN: The -- on that point, I suppose, could he -- could anyone have met the expectations, Terry, that were on his shoulders. He's thought of as this -- you know, next to Bill Clinton, the great communicator of our time.
TERRY NEAL, WASHINGTONPOST.COM: I think it would have been very difficult for him to meet the expectations. It's been built up so much. I think that the speech was a little bit underwhelming, particularly to us sitting up here because we've heard it so many times. I mean, the speech he delivered was not very different than the one he's been delivering for the past year. He just threw in some kind words about John Kerry in at the top of it.
But, look, the -- his role here was to appeal to the voters that have started to leave the party that the party thinks that they can still get. Those are men primarily. Despite all the talk about the fact that he's a hottie, he did better among men early on in the primaries than John Kerry did. Independents, swing voters.
That message appeals to those sort of people who may like the Republicans on social issues, but on economics really have a natural base in the Democratic Party. That's why he was there, and that was his message tonight.
BROWN: Let me -- a last question, and, Nina, you get it because I think in this group you probably know John Kerry the best. What is he -- what does he have to do tomorrow? EASTON: John Kerry definitely has to do what John Edwards tried to portray him as seven paragraphs into the speech, which was be strong and be decisive. John Edwards went back 30 years to describe Kerry as strong and decisive.
I think that Kerry tomorrow night has to update that and show why today he's strong and decisive, and he's got to -- I don't even -- I'm not even sure he has to be terribly charismatic. I think he has to provide a sense of stability, strength and so on, which is what they hope to achieve.
BROWN: He has in the past proved to be a pretty formidable campaigner when the money was on the line. He certainly was in the last Senate race when the money was on the line. He's got to find that tomorrow, doesn't he?
EASTON: Absolutely. He's going to -- he's -- I call him the Sea Biscuit Candidate. When a horse or a candidate is charging forward and almost ahead of him, he really kicks into gear. We saw that in the past several times, and I think we're likely to see that in this late summer period.
BROWN: Nina, John and Terry, thanks. It's not easy working, and we're a little squished for time here.
EASTON: Thank you.
NEAL: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you. We'll all talk tomorrow. It will be even noisier. Thank you.
John Kerry would be the first to admit it: He's not Mick Jagger or even Michael Moore. The first doesn't seem to be a problem. Ah, but the second.
Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael! Michael!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael! Michael!
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All over Boston, ever since the convention started, it has been Moore, Moore, Moore.
MICHAEL MOORE, POLITICAL ACTIVIST: You're supposed to be able to believe the president. You're supposed to.
Members of Congress, this is Michael Moore. I would like to read to you the USA...
FOREMAN: Michael Moore's relentless attacks on President Bush with his film "Fahrenheit 9/11" and now in person have earned a hero's welcome. He was even seated with former President Jimmy Carter who is not talking publicly about it, while Moore is saying plenty.
MOORE: He said to me, "I can't think of anyone I would rather have to sit with me tonight than you," and...
FOREMAN (on camera): How do you feel about that?
MOORE: I was so blown away.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Moore says he's an independent, not a Democrat, and some top Democrats don't like all the attention he's getting, but he has struck a chord, railing against the war, Republicans and the media.
MOORE: We need you to ask the questions! Demand the evidence. Demand the evidence. Don't ever send us to war without asking the questions.
FOREMAN: That said, he has no plans to endorse John Kerry.
MOORE: When John Kerry becomes president on January 20th next year, on January 21st, that camera lens of mine is going to be pointed at him, because that's my job done.
FOREMAN: Are you going to go to the Republican convention?
MOORE: I already have my credentials for the Republican convention and so do my 25 bodyguards.
FOREMAN: But Moore dropped plans to attend the latest premiere of his film, a short distance from President Bush's ranch in Texas. Despite his courting of the media here, Moore says he does not want the story to be all about him. Tom Foreman, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Sometimes you want doesn't happen. Coming up on NEWS NIGHT, Al Franken joins us. As we go to break, Elizabeth Edwards.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH EDWARDS: Whether it's Wendy's or Washington, I found that it's true. It's not where you go. It's who you go with.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Going through the states to the inevitable conclusion, 2162 is the magic number and John Kerry will get it before the night is over, but it's going to take a long time. Speeches get made. Everybody gets their moment, even if the networks are not covering it.
Joining us now Al Franken, more an eyebrow raiser than a rabble rouser, but that's just Minnesota for you. Mr. Franken is a comedian, humor writer, deeply committed political observer. He now spends a good deal of his time in the radio on a program oddly enough called the "Al Franken Show." We're always pleased to see him and we're pleased to see him tonight, good to have you.
AL FRANKEN, AIR AMERICA RADIO: Great to be here Aaron.
BROWN: Is the party that's on the floor of the convention the same as the party that's at the podium?
FRANKEN: Is the party -- oh, I see. Probably not exactly, although I think they're all ... and I say we because I was on the floor cheering Edwards. I'm not a journalist, remember.
BROWN: Yes I do.
FRANKEN: We're all in league together. I mean but and so for example, Edwards tonight was not critical, as critical of the president. He was only by inference critical of the president tonight on the war in Iraq. I mean we -- he broke it, we own it and he talks about what we're going to do going forward. He didn't go back to being misled and the weapons, no weapons of mass destruction and no real collaborative link between al Qaeda and Saddam.
He gave this totally optimistic, hopeful speech and he also gave a speech that probably a lot of these delegates have heard major portions of. This was his A material. As a comedian, you go with your A material. So in a way, I mean this is for the audience at home, who has not seen this speech before. So tonight, you're going to be -- shows like this are going to be talking to pundits who have seen a great deal of this stump speech and they're going to be measuring it against the greatest time he gave the stump speech.
BROWN: Al, I'm sorry. I think, let me just go back to the question if I can here. It's fair to say isn't it that the party has some concern about -- from the podium, that part of the party about being seen as too liberal for the rest of the country.
FRANKEN: Yes, I mean I think that when you start the general election, you move toward the center. That's the tradition. I mean of course the Bush campaign did it the whole 2000 race, the whole primary season, the whole campaign was compassionate conservative and then they win a disputed outcome and he goes right to the right, as far to the right as I've seen any president go. I think, I think the message that we've been hearing from Clinton and Barak Obama (ph) and from John Edwards is where we want to unite America and I think that Kerry's slogan could be, I'm a uniter, not a divider. I know that sounds familiar but I mean it.
BROWN: Stay with us for a second. Ohio's about to cast its vote. It's an important state come November.
FRANKEN: OK, the Buckeye State.
BROWN: It is the Buckeye State. There's John Glenn, the former senator and astronaut.
UNIDENTIFIED : ... deserve better than that. For the 1.2 million Ohioans without health care that deserve health care, but especially for the middle class Ohioans who get up every day, work hard and play by the rules that deserve a president in the White House that will give them a break and a sense of fair play, the next president will be Senator John Kerry. Senator.
JOHN GLENN, FORMER SENATOR: Madame Chairman, we thank the great state of Minnesota very much for passing to Ohio. Ohio takes great pride tonight in being the state to put this voting over the top and making John Kerry's candidate official as we cast 159 for the next president of the United States, John Kerry.
BROWN: John Glenn puts John Kerry over the top, Ohio and you take every bit of help you can get. Ohio is a critical state for both parties and it's very much in play. Back to Al Franken, while we watch all this. Al, actually someone we both know in Minnesota said to me the other day that they actually, they think quite seriously that you're thinking quite seriously of running for the Senate eventually from there.
FRANKEN: Well, one race at a time. We got to win this one. It was great to see John Glenn. I went on a USO tour with him a couple years ago and he's an amazing, amazing guy. It was great to see him.
BROWN: I'll take that as a non-answer for now.
FRANKEN: Well, I mean I'd give you the totally honest answer which is I don't know and I'll decide -- it's four years away.
BROWN: It's good to see you. Thank you Al. Al Franken.
FRANKEN: Thank you Aaron.
BROWN: In Boston, back to the floor, officially now, Kelly Wallace joins us, Ohio has put John Kerry over the top. Why was it important to have Ohio seal the deal?
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is really one of the key battleground states this year, Aaron. No Republican has ever won the White House without winning Ohio and if you look back, it has elected Bill Clinton. In 1992, made Ohio the state that put him over the top. He'd won the election, 1996 Bill Clinton made Ohio again the state that put him over the top. He'd won the elections. Democrats are fighting hard in Ohio. They think because that is a state that is really hurting when it comes to the economy, people still say they're just not feeling any economic recovery. They think they have a real chance for that state and again, if history is any guide, if George Bush doesn't win in Ohio, chances are he will not be reelected Aaron.
BROWN: Does anyone actually believe that because Ohio had the honor of putting John Kerry over the top, that it's going to move five votes come November?
WALLACE: Absolutely not. This is a symbolic move, but a symbolic message coming from Democrats to say they are going to fight hard and they're going to have a real battle in the state of Ohio. In fact, after this convention wraps up and John Kerry and John Edwards begin a cross country bus and train tour to go out and rally after the convention, they will be stopping in Ohio on Saturday, going to a place called Canton, Ohio, in Stark County, very much a swing county. They are just trying to send a message Aaron, they're going to fight hard. They think it's one of these key battlegrounds in this election.
BROWN: And Ohio's a complicated state. There's a Republican governor in Ohio, help me on this. I know there's one Republican senator, I think both. So it's no -- it's clearly not a slam dunk for the Democrats. You talked about the economy. The war will obviously -- terrorism will obviously be issues there. That's a classic state where the party has to be careful of being seen as too liberal, correct?
WALLACE: Absolutely. I mean if you look at the state, just looking at my little cue card here, northern part of the state definitely a Democratic stronghold. You look at the southern part of the state, the Republican base. An important fact though, 36 percent of votes back in 2000 from union households, so the labor vote will be key. And as I was talking to some people Aaron, about what they thought about John Edwards' speech here in Ohio, we got comments like he showed the priorities. He hit it out of the ballpark here and I talked with one person here, a union worker. He said it's all about the economy, health care and jobs in the state.
I asked, well, are you concerned about Iraq? Don't you want to hear more about how John Kerry and John Edwards might try and get U.S. troops out of Iraq? He said no. It's all about getting the country back on track economically. So again and that's from these delegates as they heard what they wanted to hear and they think the economy is the key issue for them.
BROWN: Kelly, thank you for your work tonight, Kelly Wallace in the midst of it all. Joe Klein is with us again. He writes for "Time" and appears with us from time to time as well, Joe, I suspect you take some issue with that delegate from Ohio, who believes that it's all about the economy.
JOE KLEIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, you know, during the primaries, whenever Democrats were polled, they said it was all about the economy. They said it was all about education. They said it was all about health care, but beneath all that, they wanted to have someone who was serious and experienced to go up against George W. Bush and debate him on foreign policy which is what's going to happen this fall and the most important events of this election. So I think Democrats always wanted to be about the economy and in some parts of the country like southeastern Ohio, it is. But in great swatches of this country, in great swaths of this country, it is about security. It is about this war, this very confusing war on terror and this even more confusing war in Iraq.
BROWN: Let's -- your piece this week in the magazine included an interview with Senator Kerry. His night is tomorrow. We talked a little with Nina Easton about this earlier. This is a guy who in various points in the campaign, is not especially effective and then when things get tight, he seems to focus.
KLEIN: Right. Well, you know, I have never seen a really bad acceptance speech. Even Michael Dukakis gave a pretty darn good on in 1988 and even Bob Dole gave a kind of semi-poetic one in 1996. I think John Kerry is going to do better than expected tomorrow night. The question is whether he can make a compelling case for his view of the world. Now one thing that John Edwards did not do at all tonight was make the case against George W. Bush. This is normally the vice president's job. He didn't do that at all. It's kind of strange and unique to me to see that. It will be interesting to see how much John Kerry feels he has to make that case tomorrow night, but he also most important of all, has to make people feel comfortable with him in two ways: one, as a human being, because he's going to be living in your kitchens and dens and family rooms for the next four years and secondly, comfortable as a leader, as a commander in chief.
BROWN: Does he at some point have to explain -- Senator Kerry sometimes is all about nuance and President Bush sometimes is all about black and white. It's good and evil. It's just -- Senator Kerry at some point have to explain in ways that most people in the country understand, his thinking on that $87 billion vote.
KLEIN: I would imagine that he might have to especially since that is President Bush's biggest applause line now in every stump speech he gives. It's the emotional heart of the president's attack on John Kerry and the Republicans attack on John Kerry. But it's a very complicated thing. Republicans pretty much are the party of the simple sentence, strong defense, low taxes, family values. Part of the reason why Democrats always feel so defensive and uncertain is that they're the party of the compound sentence and John Kerry is the candidate of the compound sentence with 16 sub-clauses and codicils and this $87 billion vote not to vote for the $87 billion to continue the action in Iraq, is a very difficult vote to explain.
BROWN: So he has to but you haven't figured out how he does it yet.
KLEIN: Well, I haven't figured out how he does it. I think that the question is whether he has. There have been times when he had been very succinct and eloquent about explaining his vote for the war. It's been tougher for him to explain the $87 billion, because it was a protest vote. He knew that that $87 billion was going to be vote. If he had been the 51st vote and his vote would have cut off the troops in the field and cut off their equipment and supplies, you know he would have voted for it. But he was casting a protest vote against the way the war was being conducted. That's the best I can do with it and we'll see whether John Kerry really wants to own up to that.
BROWN: Joe, we'll talk tomorrow. Thank you. It will be interesting to see how...
KLEIN: Good to be here.
BROWN: Good to see you. Sir, thank you, Joe Klein of "Time" magazine. Take a quick break, first John Edwards takes us to break on what was his night in Boston.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We hear a lot of talk about values. Where I come from you don't judge somebody's values based on how they use that word in a political ad. You judge their values based upon what they spent their life doing, so when a man volunteers to serve his country, the man volunteers and puts his life on the line for others, that's a man who represents real American values."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: More now with how the convention is being covered and how it's being seen. We're joined from the Fleet Center in Boston tonight by Jonah Goldberg, who's the editor at large or an editor at large for "National Review" online, which is a terrific read and a contributing editor of "National Review." Also with us Howard Kurtz, media critic for the "Washington Post" and host of CNN's "Reliable Sources." We're glad to have both with us. Mr. Kurtz, let me start with you. What's the most underplayed story you think of the convention?
HOWARD KURTZ, "WASHINGTON POST": I think in the last 24 hours, it's Teresa Heinz Kerry's speech, been talking to a lot of journalists and reading a lot of things online, she's not getting rave reviews. A lot of people think she just spent too much time talking about herself and her issues and she didn't do her mission, which was to sell her husband in a personal way that only a wife can, a lot of buzz about that here (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BROWN: Does it matter?
KURTZ: It may not matter in a larger sense, but you know, a convention is a series of opportunities and I think that was probably a missed opportunity for the Kerry campaign. Everybody comes up there, other than the nominee tomorrow night that has a job and Teresa's a controversial figure. That's why she's on the cover of "Newsweek" and I think she's going to remain a controversial figure in this campaign.
BROWN: If that's the most underplayed moment and you may well be right about that, do you have a feel for what the most overplayed moment has been?
KURTZ: It involves the same person. It's Teresa telling that reporter from Pittsburgh to shove it. That must have been -- that approached (UNINTELLIGIBLE) levels it was on the air so many times on the cable networks. It just shows you, with a lack of hard news here, any little controversy, we the 15,000 journalists assembled here at Fleet Center are going to jump on it.
BROWN: We turn to Jonah. Jonah, you've been writing about this for almost anyone who will ask, as any good writer does. You've been on the pages of "USA Today." You haven't found much to like about it all have you?
JONAH GOLDBERG: No, I have to admit I'm becoming more and more of a curmudgeon. I found the whole thing is so prepackaged, so preconceived, I think Howard's right that when you have everything so minutely controlled and micromanaged that the slightest thing that goes off script just consumes the media to a big degree. But basically, what I don't like about this convention is that it's so fake. It's an infomercial. They should be selling steak knives.
BROWN: Any more, I don't necessarily disagree with that but is it any more fake? Is it any more of an infomercial than what conventions had been really for the last eight years certainly, Republican and Democrat?
GOLDBERG: I think that's fair. There were a lot of Republicans. There are a lot of consumers like me who really had a problem with the 2000 convention, the Republican 2000 convention, which really tried to sort of convey the message that compassionate conservatism was a rejection of all the old conservatism and basically bought into the liberal stereotypes and we're seeing that a little bit with the plans for the upcoming Republican convention in the sense that there was a real backlash about the fact that there was very, very few real conservatives who were going to be speaking at the convention. It was all moderates and for a lot of conservatives, a party that's unwilling to put the people who agree with the delegates on the podium is a party that's ashamed of its own principles.
KURTZ: The truth is that it matters less and less in the sense that we're all here inside this kind of Boston bubble. Most people, the ratings make clear, fewer Americans are watching this every four years in the sense of sitting down and watching it as programming. The impressions they get are based on people like (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the headlines, what's on "AMERICAN MORNING" tomorrow, what's on the major network evening news. So they see snippets. They read columns. They form an impression about whether it was a special convention, whether Kerry gave a good enough speech, whether he connected with the audience, all of that I think sometimes we all just get too caught up in the minutia because there's 15,000 of us here and we're hanging on every work, but believe me, America is not.
BROWN: Go ahead Jonah.
GOLDBERG: I was just going to say, I think Howie was right about (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I would actually say that the Teresa Heinz Kerry story was the second most significant story that he'd get enough play. The most significant story was that the ratings are so low to this whole thing. But you can hardly expect a lot of television networks to talk about how no one is watching them (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BROWN: As someone who represents in this conversation a television network, what one of the things it seems to me that's happened here is the more and more the parties have taken the news out of the convention, the less and less reason there is frankly for people to watch it.
GOLDBERG: I think that's absolutely true. It's not entirely clear that, why everyone was here. The connection's going to be happening if the media weren't here. The media wouldn't be here if the conventions weren't happening.
BROWN: Howie...
GOLDBERG: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Go ahead Aaron.
BROWN: No please, you, last word.
GOLDBERG: Just going to say that everyone's here because for the media this is fun. There are parties. It's kind of a summer camp for journalists. We all have conversations in the hallways about the shrinking lack of significance here. Ironically a convention designed to present John Kerry as a real person, a strong leader, regular guy, is scripted down to the last degree. I'm starting to wonder whether four and eight years from now, there will be even less television coverage and as many journalists as there are here now. But that's a question for another day.
BROWN: Howie, Jonah, good to have you both. Thank you for working with us tonight. We'll take a quick look at those headlines that will help shape peoples' view of the convention. John Mellencamp first.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: OK, time to check the morning papers from around the country, around the world. They will help shape peoples' view of the convention but the "International Herald Tribune" went to press early as it must, published in Europe, read mostly in Europe and so it led with a story -- it's strange. It's a little disconcerting sometimes that things did happen today other than the convention and we didn't get to them. That happens when there is a major event going on. Iraq bomber takes a devastating toll, deadliest blast since power handover killed scores of civilians at a police station. It was a horrible thing that happened and a very bad day in other parts of the Iraq as well. The picture on the front page of the "Herald Tribune" is a devastating picture. I'm not sure you can see it very clearly and I'm not sure you want to to be perfectly honest. It's a very tough picture, their political story for Kerry, the long-awaited moment is here and that looking forward to tomorrow.
The "Christian Science Monitor" also looking forward as it needs to. Kerry style of leadership in 2004, it's a race of candidates' kids. There's also a sidebar story, major violence back in Iraq. It's actually been quite a difficult month since the handover in Iraq. It's the kind of thing we'll catch up on I think next week.
"Washington Times" Edwards says Kerry will win the war is their lead story, the picture is John Kerry arriving in Boston Harbor, Kerry ex-crew mates cruise into Boston Harbor. These are the headlines now that the Democrats will be happy to see I believe.
The "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," politics of hope and John Edwards, Edwards rouses convention delegates. Cleland relishes his resurrection. That's Max Cleland, a Georgian who will be part of the proceedings tomorrow.
The "Des Moines Register," Edwards promotes politics of hope. Again this is -- as Howie Kurtz mentioned, the kind of thing that does shape peoples' perceptions.
The "Cincinnati Enquirer," Edwards would choose hope over despair but they also put a big local story, girls' prison under scrutiny, a local prison, obviously with some problems there.
"Boston Herald" with some very tough headlines on John Kerry and the whole Democratic convention, it's a bust, miserable pub merchants wonder where windfall went.
The weather in Chicago tomorrow, because we have to include that is psyched up (ph), according to the "Chicago Sun-Times," our favorite Chicago paper.
Here's Bill Hemmer (ph) with a look at tomorrow's "AMERICAN MORNING."
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, thanks. Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," Democrats getting ready for the star of their show, John Kerry taking the spotlight. We'll talk to his daughters and there's some of his Navy crew mates from when they were altogether in Vietnam.
Also former Secretary of State Madeline Albright is with us and the former mayor from New York, Rudy Giuliani, a full line up yet again on Thursday morning 7:00 Eastern time is our starting time here in Boston, hope to see you then. Aaron.
BROWN: Bill, thank you. "AMERICAN MORNING," 7:00 Eastern time. Quickly or maybe not so quickly, we've got 15 seconds here, so talk to you about the Boston "Herald" which has been very tough on the Democrats, very tough on the Kerry's. Their other story here, Kerry girls gone wild. The story is that the Kerry girls are competing for the attention of Ben Affleck, big story in Boston.
We'll be back tomorrow after the John Kerry acceptance speech, special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE" coming up next. Larry is live in Boston next tonight.
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Aired July 28, 2004 - 22:50 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BLITZER: Let's get a different perspective, shall we say a very different perspective. Ralph Reed, a Republican leader in the state of Georgia and active in the Bush-Cheney campaign. Give us your sense of it?
RALPH REED, BUSH CAMPAIGN ADVISER: Wolf, I think that John Edwards is a good speaker. We knew that going in. But I'll be honest with you, what really struck me about the speech, seven pages, probably somewhere between 700 and 1,000 words. He didn't mention one thing about John Kerry's record in the U.S. Senate. He went back 30, 35 years to talk about his service in Vietnam, which we all honor. But he didn't talk about the fact that John Kerry has consistently over 19 years voted for higher taxes, deep cuts in intelligence and voted to cut or kill every major weapons system that's winning the war against terrorism. That's why we have a campaign. And I think once we join that debate, I don't think John Kerry's going to sell in the heartland of America.
BLITZER: How worried are you right now about getting President Bush and Vice President Cheney re-elected?
REED: Well, I'm not overconfident. But we're working hard. We're running as if we're behind. We're running like we're the challenger and not the incumbent. I'll tell you this right now, I'm absolutely confident that when we have our convention in New York next month, the president gets an opportunity to have the contrast between Kerry's record of higher taxes, deep cuts in military spending and intelligence and being out of the mainstream on cultural values that he's going to be re-elected because of his positive optimistic vision for the future of our country.
BLITZER: Victoria Clark worked for the election of President Bush four years ago. She's now a CNN (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Pentagon spokeswoman. What did you make of this John Edwards presentation?
I don't think we have Victoria Clark there.
Let me bring back Ralph Reed. Ralph, as you take a look at how you will fight this Democratic party as right now it must cause you some great concern.
REED: No, not really. I think what you have, Wolf, is the most liberal member of the U.S. Senate, John Kerry, who picked the fourth most liberal member of the U.S. Senate, John Edwards, to represent this party and even this week it's being reporter that they've gone off the air in (UNINTELLIGIBLE). They've gone off the air in Arkansas. They've reduced their media buy in Missouri.
Their map and a state they're fighting in is shrinking and ours is getting larger. And I think not only will George W. Bush carry a solid South with its 171 electoral votes but I think he's going to overperform in the industrial heartland as well.
BLITZER: All right. Judy Woodruff wants to weigh in as well. Judy, go ahead.
WOODRUFF: Ralph, what about the point that John Edwards made that we the Democrats want to the country in a positive direction but he says what have we seen in the last weeks, relentless negative against John. He said, "aren't we sick of it." Could that end up being a liability for your (UNINTELLIGIBLE)?
REED: Well, you know, I think the voters can see through that rhetoric. I mean, John Edwards said that George W. Bush couldn't walk and chew gum at the same time.
We sat on the front row, Judy, of a fundraiser in New York City a few weeks ago and listened to Hollywood entertainers call the president a thug, a killer and a liar, and he didn't utter one word of condemnation. So I think that's a little self-serving.
What I think is this: You can't serve in the U.S. Senate for 19 years, vote for higher taxes 350 times, advocate $7.4 billion in intelligence cuts one year after the first World Trade Center attack and not have your opposition talk about it.
BLITZER: Jeff Greenfield?
GREENFIELD: Ralph, hi. It's Jeff Greenfield. I know that you, like your rivals, have the talking points down, but there's one (UNINTELLIGIBLE) I'd like you to address. Every survey right now says more Americans would rather get a new president than keep the old one. On a baseline level -- and you are one of the smartest political operatives I know -- that cannot be the way you want to go into this fall election?
REED: Well, you know, look, Jeff, I would just point to the ABC News/"Washington Post" poll that came out today that has the president ahead by 2 among registered voters, up 1 among likely voters, and a job approval of 50 percent. There's another poll with the president's job approval at 51. And this is after they've had a week or two weeks to advertise their veep pick.
So no president in modern times has not been reelected with a job approval of 50 percent or higher. That's about where George W. Bush is, and he's going to be reelected in November.
BLITZER: What about the war in Iraq? You heard the references to the war in Iraq. You heard what John Edwards just had to say, that they've got a plan to bring the allies together and not go it alone. That's a tough criticism of the way the Bush administration has effectively handled the war in Iraq. REED: Yes. And I have to say it's also a false and misplaced criticism. You know, John Kerry called the coalition in Iraq a coalition of the bribed and the coerced. The truth is, Wolf, there have been over 30 nations with troops on the ground in Iraq helping, including Japan, Great Britain, Poland, 17 of 26 NATO nations.
And I want you to think about this for a minute because this is going to come out in this campaign. There's only four members of the U.S. Senate who voted to send our men and women into combat and then voted not to give them the $87 billion in combat pay, health-care benefits, and body armor and ammunition they needed to win the war.
That position is out of the mainstream, and, of those four U.S. Senators, two of them, John Kerry and John Edwards, are on this ticket, and that's not going to sell in the heartland of our country.
BLITZER: Ralph Reed, thanks very much for joining us. Good to get your perspective on this night as well.
What's happening right now on the floor of the convention is the roll call. They are starting the roll call. Let's listen in briefly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am Joe Reeve (ph) vice chair of the Alabama delegation. On behalf of Redding Pitt, our state chair, Amy Berka (ph), our vice chair, our two Democratic Congressman Burt Cramer and Artur Davis, the state with the highest percentage of black elected officials in the nation proudly yields to the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to nominate the next president of the United States.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Alabama.
Alabama yields to Massachusetts.
And, Massachusetts, you have 121 votes.
Massachusetts?
CAM KERRY, MASSACHUSETTS DELEGATE: Madam Secretary, my name is Cam Kerry. I'm here with my sister, Diana. We know that when it is on the line, there's nobody we want by our side more than our brother, John. The people of Massachusetts know that, and, as America comes to know that, we proudly cast 121 votes for John Kerry.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, Cameron Kerry.
Massachusetts casts 121 votes for John Kerry.
Alaska? Alaska, you have 18 votes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Madam Secretary, the State of Alaska, the great land, the last frontier, proudly yields to the home of the next vice president of the United States, North Carolina.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: North Carolina, you have 107 votes. How do you cast them?
BARBARA ALLEN, NORTH CAROLINA DELEGATE: Madam Secretary, I'm Barbara Allen, chair of the North Carolina...
BLITZER: The States of Alabama and Alaska, the first two states alphabetically have both yielded, have both allowed the States of Massachusetts and North Carolina to cast the first votes for the Democratic nomination for the president and the vice president. That is the traditiion.
This is going to go on for about an hour and a half or so, this roll call. Once it's all done, of course, there's no doubt who's going to be the Democratic nominee for the presidency or for the vice presidency. We'll continue to watch the roll call. We'll continue, in fact, to watch all the developments here.
We also have by Aaron Brown who's standing by for a special edition "NEWSNIGHT," a complete wrap-up of all the developments, plus all of the reaction.
We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back.
RALPH CAMPBELL, NORTH CAROLINA DELEGATE: Madam Secretary, I'm state auditor Ralph Campbell, Jr., the first African-American elected to a constitutional office in the great state of North Carolina. We cast our votes as follows: 4 votes for Dennis Kucinich -- and I am extremely proud and honored to cast 102 votes for John Kerry and John Edwards, the next president and vice president of the United States of America.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: The 5,000 delegates and alternates here at the Democratic Convention in Boston -- they're now voting for the nomination for the presidency and the vice presidency. Arkansas voting right now. General Wesley Clark representing Arkansas. This will continue for about an hour and a half.
We're going to wrap it up from here at the Democratic National Convention. For Judy Woodruff and Jeff Greenfield, I'm Wolf Blitzer in Boston.
Aaron Brown picks up our coverage now with a special edition of "NEWSNIGHT" -- Aaron.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Good evening again, everyone.
In Boston tonight, as you've been following it, the Democratic candidates are doing what they came to do at the FleetCenter. They are now casting their votes to make the presumptive official, and we'll dip in and out of that throughout the evening. They're formally handing John Kerry and John Edwards the Democratic Party's nomination.
Tonight, the number two man on the ticket, John Edwards of North Carolina, took center stage. Senator Kerry's speech, a hugely important speech for him, comes tomorrow. Day three of the convention was a time for more buildup and, for us, lots of ground to cover in the next 45 or 50 minutes or so.
Once again, we begin with a quick whip around the hall, the stories tonight and the correspondents who cover them, our senior analyst Jeff Greenfield, our senior political correspondent Candy Crowley, and John King, our senior White House correspondent. Another senior moment.
It's good to have you all.
Jeff, you're the former speechwriter in the group. What did John Edwards have to do, and in your opinion -- we heard Ralph Reed's opinion -- in your opinion, did he get it done?
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Yeah, there were a couple of different goals here, Aaron. One was to -- one of the things he was doing is to present to a bigger audience the two Americas speeches that made him -- sorry, two Americas speech that made him a formidable candidate. The second thing, and particularly the overriding thematic theme, and this one I think he pulled off quite well, was to infuse his speech with a sense of optimism. That's why they chose, as the litany at the end, hope is on the way. That's not just a little parody or riff off Dick Cheney's help is on the way, but using the word hope, talking about optimism, having his wife describe him as the most optimistic man I've ever seen. That sort of helps not just John Edwards, but the John Kerry sense that he can't be (UNINTELLIGIBLE) or nay-sayer.
But the third thing that they had to do, and I think there is -- I would say that this was a more mixed result -- is to present him as a man of substance. On his domestic presentation, the specifics I think worked. They certainly worked in the hall. On the international stuff, on the war on Iraq -- remember, he is a member of the Intelligence Committee, but he has less foreign policy credentials than any of the other three candidates at this point. I think the jury may still be out on that, and I thought that the rhetoric was a tad less certain and surer than it was on the domestic front, because that's partly where John Edwards is coming from. There is no question that this man is a communicator, is really a first-rate one, Wolf -- I'm sorry, Aaron.
BROWN: Wolf, Aaron, what's the difference. We're all paid by the same company.
On the gravitas point, the foreign policy experience, the test for Senator Edwards, perhaps then the debate with Dick Cheney, with Vice President Cheney?
GREENFIELD: Yeah, absolutely. Democrats have been licking their chops at the prospects of this brilliant communicator communicating with Dick Cheney, who is -- who is sometimes a little less, shall we say, electric. But when it comes to foreign policy, the kind of laid back, quiet approach that Cheney has -- John Edwards has to be very careful not to be seen as too eager, too enthusiastic. And that's why I think that debate is going to in some ways be even more interesting than the presidential debate, particularly on the point you mentioned, Aaron -- I've got your name right -- the foreign policy credentials John Edwards brings to that table and podium are really going to be tested then -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jeff, thank you.
Let me go to John. That would be John King.
John, did the Republicans hear things in this speech, do you think, that, A, surprised them and, B, they can turn on the Democrats?
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I don't think they heard anything that surprised them, Aaron, but they certainly, as Jeff noted, did hear this trial lawyer's skills.
As a trial lawyer knows, borrow the best evidence your opponent has, and John Edwards stole a line from George Bush tonight in saying that al Qaeda should know that a John Kerry administration would find them, hunt them down, and destroy them. So trying to be very assertive, very muscular, if you will, in the war on terrorism.
I was just reading an e-mail from the Bush-Cheney campaign. Already, they have sent out a lengthy e-mail saying that one thing John Edwards failed to do tonight was mention anything about John Kerry's 19 years in the Senate. They also say he distorted the Bush administration's positions on some things.
And what the Bush campaign says most of all is there may be a great deal of excitement in the hall tonight, Senator Edwards may have scored some points with the American people tonight as an able communicator and as a rising star in the Democratic Party, but the Bush campaign would say -- and what everyone in this hall would acknowledge -- that the election will come down to a choice between George W. Bush and John Kerry, not John Edwards.
And the Bush campaign will continue to make the case that John Edwards fails test, and everyone in this hall again -- and we saw it tonight when the Democrats were cheering the anti-war rhetoric of some of the earlier speeches -- know that Senator Kerry's big challenge, and this is our subject for tomorrow night, is to prove that he can be the commander in chief, to convince the American people to change commanders in chief in the middle of a war -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, this is probably one night premature, but I'll ask it tonight, and perhaps we'll run it by you again tomorrow. Do you think anything's happened in the last three days that will force the president's campaign to adjust in any way?
KING: Well, we've already seen adjustments in that Senator Kerry and the Democrats moved so quickly to embrace the recommendations of the 9/11 commission, a new director of national intelligence, other intelligence reforms, that the Bush campaign, after sending word to Capitol Hill to the Republican leadership that it should slow walk this and say we'll have hearings and consider this next year after the election, the Republican leadership and Congress today said it will hold hearings almost immediately.
So we are seeing a very nimble, if you will, a very quick reaction from the Republicans. They do -- right now, President Bush has an 18-point lead over the Democratic ticket when it comes to the question of: Who do you want to lead the war on terrorism? The Bush campaign is moving very quickly any time it sees the potential that the president might be about to lose that edge.
BROWN: John, thank you.
Candy Crowley was up on the podium.
Candy, give me atmospherics. What was it like in the hall? I watched it on television. All our viewers clearly watched it on television. These things play a little differently on television. What was it like there?
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's funny because I get to sort of watch both because I have a television here. I can see what's going out, but I also can see the crowd.
So I have John Kerry's -- I'm sorry -- John Edwards' perspective looking out, and it's just this sea of red and white. Look, this was -- this was the choir, and they loved him, and it was exactly the kind of audience that any politician wants to play off of.
I will tell you, though, that, without all of the paraphernalia and without all of the kind of homogeneous look of the audience and the wild cheering, that Al Sharpton who has a very tough anti-Bush rhetoric, earlier this evening without benefit of a lot of signs (UNINTELLIGIBLE) New York delegation, really seemed to connect in a passionate way.
The -- John Edwards, you know, didn't seem to get to the depth of that. So -- and we do know that this is a -- tends to be a much more anti-war crowd than the ticket is, and so -- but they were quite receptive to Al Sharpton without all the accoutrements and the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) that comes with being on the ticket.
Having said that, he got a great welcome, and, obviously, he seemed to relish it at his biggest crowd to date.
BROWN: Candy, thank you.
Jeff, John, thank you.
We'll talk again tomorrow.
As this goes on now to the high points as they actually play it out tonight in the hall. For those of you who haven't been with us since the very beginning of the night back at 8:00, it was another night of big-name speakers -- Candy just alluded to one -- culminating with John Edwards.
But, beginning tonight with what for many in the hall was love's old sweet song.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROWN (voice-over): This night, at least in part, was about themes you could hear, but also themes you could see. Jesse Jackson, who first ran for president in the mid '80s, got a brief spotlight very early in the night.
REV. JESSE JACKSON, RAINBOW/BUSH COALITION: Let the eagles fly to Washington. It's peacetime. It's justice time. It's homecoming time. It's home going time. It's time to bring our troops home and send Bush back to Texas.
(CHEERS)
JACKSON: The earliest possible, bring the troops home. Send Bush to Texas. It's time to send John Kerry and John Edwards to the White House this November. Keep hope alive.
BROWN: And a brief spotlight, too, on the Reverend Al Sharpton.
REV. AL SHARPTON, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was those that earned our votes that got our votes. We got the Civil Rights Act under Democrats. We got the Voting Rights Act under Democrats. We got the right to organize under Democrats.
In all due respect, Mr. President, read my lips: Our vote is not for sale!
BROWN: Jennifer Granholm, the governor of a very important heartland state, Michigan, on a big Democratic theme.
GOV. JENNIFER GRANHOLM (D), MICHIGAN: The bottom line is that Americans are being squeezed. And, today, fathers and mothers who have worked loyally for a company for decades who are fiercely patriotic, who are supporting our troops, who are proudly flying the American flag outside their homes, who cried when the Twin Towers crumbled, those workers are now reading the papers and wondering when is my job going to China, when is my job going to Mexico or to India, am I next. And who is standing up for me? John Kerry will!
BROWN: And now the visual cues as critical perhaps as the verbal ones, at least early in the night: retired generals who support John Kerry highlighted, including General Wesley Clark who ran against him; old Democratic Party nominees on hand as well, Walter Mondale, George McGovern, Michael Dukakis.
But, in the end and most importantly, this night belonged to John Edwards.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D-NC), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Between now and November, you the American people -- you can reject this tired old hateful negative politics of the past and instead you can embrace the politics of hope, the politics of what's possible because this is America where everything is possible.
And we have much work to do because the truth is we still live in a country where there are two different Americas. One for all those people who have lived the American dream and don't' have to worry and another for most Americans and everybody else who struggle to make ends meet every single day. It doesn't have to be that way.
We're going to raise the minimum wage. We're going to finish the job on welfare reform, and we're going to bring good-paying jobs to the places where we need them the most, and, by doing all those things, we're going to say no forever to any American working full- time and living in poverty. Not in our America! Not in our America! Not in our America.
(CHEERS)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: The highlights of the night coming up on the program still. Our Brown table joins us. Also, a couple of outspoken Democratic supporters and the controversy surrounding one of them.
But, first, again, the Reverend Al Sharpton from tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARPTON: I suggest to you tonight that if George Bush had selected the court in '54, Clarence Thomas would have never got to law school.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Time to bring in our Brown table folks.
Nina Easton is the deputy bureau chief for the "Los Angeles" -- no, for "The Boston Globe." My goodness. Terry Neal of washingtonpost.com is with us. And John Harwood who's the political editor of "The Wall Street Journal."
I hate when I get your organizations wrong. But you once did work for the "L.A. Times," so I was close.
NINA EASTON, "THE BOSTON GLOBE": I absolutely did for many years.
BROWN: There you go.
Nina, we'll start with you. Some fuss was made early in the night -- I'm sure that it's lasting fuss; maybe it is, maybe it's not -- about Al Sharpton and going off message and all that. It seemed to me that if you invite Al Sharpton to the party, you've got to expect Al Sharpton to show up.
EASTON: Yes, Al Sharpton definitely provided the red meat that I think some of these delegates are hungry for. He gave a very fiery speech. People were fired up.
But, interestingly, after the speech, on the display board, there were shots of military commanders supporting John Kerry, and there were ex-Republicans or -- I guess I should say Republicans who said that they were going to vote for John Kerry.
So they quickly got the night back on message, if you will.
BROWN: I don't -- you know, it -- again, John, there is -- there are two, three conventions going on, the one that you guys all see in the hall, the one we see at home, the one you write about tomorrow. None of that -- those video screens were seen at home, I don't think, tonight.
JOHN HARWOOD, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": No, I really think this night's about John Edwards. I don't think very many Americans are even going to be aware of what Al Sharpton did.
John Edwards had two jobs tonight. He had to pass a minimal credibility threshold that he could serve as president if necessary -- minimal because he's running for vice president, not president -- and he had to offer some testimony for John Kerry. He did that, although not at much length. He was fairly quick. And then he filled out his two America speech with some of the policy detail.
But you saw tonight some of the political talent that he showed on the trail, especially with that moving line about we're here celebrating tonight, but there is somebody at home who's worried, who can't pay her bills. It's a very effective line.
BROWN: Did he-- why is it so important for...
EASTON: He came off a little bit as a game show host. I mean, he electrified the crowd, but I thought, particularly on the monitors, there was a little bit of the junior quality about him.
BROWN: The -- on that point, I suppose, could he -- could anyone have met the expectations, Terry, that were on his shoulders. He's thought of as this -- you know, next to Bill Clinton, the great communicator of our time.
TERRY NEAL, WASHINGTONPOST.COM: I think it would have been very difficult for him to meet the expectations. It's been built up so much. I think that the speech was a little bit underwhelming, particularly to us sitting up here because we've heard it so many times. I mean, the speech he delivered was not very different than the one he's been delivering for the past year. He just threw in some kind words about John Kerry in at the top of it.
But, look, the -- his role here was to appeal to the voters that have started to leave the party that the party thinks that they can still get. Those are men primarily. Despite all the talk about the fact that he's a hottie, he did better among men early on in the primaries than John Kerry did. Independents, swing voters.
That message appeals to those sort of people who may like the Republicans on social issues, but on economics really have a natural base in the Democratic Party. That's why he was there, and that was his message tonight.
BROWN: Let me -- a last question, and, Nina, you get it because I think in this group you probably know John Kerry the best. What is he -- what does he have to do tomorrow? EASTON: John Kerry definitely has to do what John Edwards tried to portray him as seven paragraphs into the speech, which was be strong and be decisive. John Edwards went back 30 years to describe Kerry as strong and decisive.
I think that Kerry tomorrow night has to update that and show why today he's strong and decisive, and he's got to -- I don't even -- I'm not even sure he has to be terribly charismatic. I think he has to provide a sense of stability, strength and so on, which is what they hope to achieve.
BROWN: He has in the past proved to be a pretty formidable campaigner when the money was on the line. He certainly was in the last Senate race when the money was on the line. He's got to find that tomorrow, doesn't he?
EASTON: Absolutely. He's going to -- he's -- I call him the Sea Biscuit Candidate. When a horse or a candidate is charging forward and almost ahead of him, he really kicks into gear. We saw that in the past several times, and I think we're likely to see that in this late summer period.
BROWN: Nina, John and Terry, thanks. It's not easy working, and we're a little squished for time here.
EASTON: Thank you.
NEAL: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you. We'll all talk tomorrow. It will be even noisier. Thank you.
John Kerry would be the first to admit it: He's not Mick Jagger or even Michael Moore. The first doesn't seem to be a problem. Ah, but the second.
Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael! Michael!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Michael! Michael!
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): All over Boston, ever since the convention started, it has been Moore, Moore, Moore.
MICHAEL MOORE, POLITICAL ACTIVIST: You're supposed to be able to believe the president. You're supposed to.
Members of Congress, this is Michael Moore. I would like to read to you the USA...
FOREMAN: Michael Moore's relentless attacks on President Bush with his film "Fahrenheit 9/11" and now in person have earned a hero's welcome. He was even seated with former President Jimmy Carter who is not talking publicly about it, while Moore is saying plenty.
MOORE: He said to me, "I can't think of anyone I would rather have to sit with me tonight than you," and...
FOREMAN (on camera): How do you feel about that?
MOORE: I was so blown away.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Moore says he's an independent, not a Democrat, and some top Democrats don't like all the attention he's getting, but he has struck a chord, railing against the war, Republicans and the media.
MOORE: We need you to ask the questions! Demand the evidence. Demand the evidence. Don't ever send us to war without asking the questions.
FOREMAN: That said, he has no plans to endorse John Kerry.
MOORE: When John Kerry becomes president on January 20th next year, on January 21st, that camera lens of mine is going to be pointed at him, because that's my job done.
FOREMAN: Are you going to go to the Republican convention?
MOORE: I already have my credentials for the Republican convention and so do my 25 bodyguards.
FOREMAN: But Moore dropped plans to attend the latest premiere of his film, a short distance from President Bush's ranch in Texas. Despite his courting of the media here, Moore says he does not want the story to be all about him. Tom Foreman, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Sometimes you want doesn't happen. Coming up on NEWS NIGHT, Al Franken joins us. As we go to break, Elizabeth Edwards.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ELIZABETH EDWARDS: Whether it's Wendy's or Washington, I found that it's true. It's not where you go. It's who you go with.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Going through the states to the inevitable conclusion, 2162 is the magic number and John Kerry will get it before the night is over, but it's going to take a long time. Speeches get made. Everybody gets their moment, even if the networks are not covering it.
Joining us now Al Franken, more an eyebrow raiser than a rabble rouser, but that's just Minnesota for you. Mr. Franken is a comedian, humor writer, deeply committed political observer. He now spends a good deal of his time in the radio on a program oddly enough called the "Al Franken Show." We're always pleased to see him and we're pleased to see him tonight, good to have you.
AL FRANKEN, AIR AMERICA RADIO: Great to be here Aaron.
BROWN: Is the party that's on the floor of the convention the same as the party that's at the podium?
FRANKEN: Is the party -- oh, I see. Probably not exactly, although I think they're all ... and I say we because I was on the floor cheering Edwards. I'm not a journalist, remember.
BROWN: Yes I do.
FRANKEN: We're all in league together. I mean but and so for example, Edwards tonight was not critical, as critical of the president. He was only by inference critical of the president tonight on the war in Iraq. I mean we -- he broke it, we own it and he talks about what we're going to do going forward. He didn't go back to being misled and the weapons, no weapons of mass destruction and no real collaborative link between al Qaeda and Saddam.
He gave this totally optimistic, hopeful speech and he also gave a speech that probably a lot of these delegates have heard major portions of. This was his A material. As a comedian, you go with your A material. So in a way, I mean this is for the audience at home, who has not seen this speech before. So tonight, you're going to be -- shows like this are going to be talking to pundits who have seen a great deal of this stump speech and they're going to be measuring it against the greatest time he gave the stump speech.
BROWN: Al, I'm sorry. I think, let me just go back to the question if I can here. It's fair to say isn't it that the party has some concern about -- from the podium, that part of the party about being seen as too liberal for the rest of the country.
FRANKEN: Yes, I mean I think that when you start the general election, you move toward the center. That's the tradition. I mean of course the Bush campaign did it the whole 2000 race, the whole primary season, the whole campaign was compassionate conservative and then they win a disputed outcome and he goes right to the right, as far to the right as I've seen any president go. I think, I think the message that we've been hearing from Clinton and Barak Obama (ph) and from John Edwards is where we want to unite America and I think that Kerry's slogan could be, I'm a uniter, not a divider. I know that sounds familiar but I mean it.
BROWN: Stay with us for a second. Ohio's about to cast its vote. It's an important state come November.
FRANKEN: OK, the Buckeye State.
BROWN: It is the Buckeye State. There's John Glenn, the former senator and astronaut.
UNIDENTIFIED : ... deserve better than that. For the 1.2 million Ohioans without health care that deserve health care, but especially for the middle class Ohioans who get up every day, work hard and play by the rules that deserve a president in the White House that will give them a break and a sense of fair play, the next president will be Senator John Kerry. Senator.
JOHN GLENN, FORMER SENATOR: Madame Chairman, we thank the great state of Minnesota very much for passing to Ohio. Ohio takes great pride tonight in being the state to put this voting over the top and making John Kerry's candidate official as we cast 159 for the next president of the United States, John Kerry.
BROWN: John Glenn puts John Kerry over the top, Ohio and you take every bit of help you can get. Ohio is a critical state for both parties and it's very much in play. Back to Al Franken, while we watch all this. Al, actually someone we both know in Minnesota said to me the other day that they actually, they think quite seriously that you're thinking quite seriously of running for the Senate eventually from there.
FRANKEN: Well, one race at a time. We got to win this one. It was great to see John Glenn. I went on a USO tour with him a couple years ago and he's an amazing, amazing guy. It was great to see him.
BROWN: I'll take that as a non-answer for now.
FRANKEN: Well, I mean I'd give you the totally honest answer which is I don't know and I'll decide -- it's four years away.
BROWN: It's good to see you. Thank you Al. Al Franken.
FRANKEN: Thank you Aaron.
BROWN: In Boston, back to the floor, officially now, Kelly Wallace joins us, Ohio has put John Kerry over the top. Why was it important to have Ohio seal the deal?
KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is really one of the key battleground states this year, Aaron. No Republican has ever won the White House without winning Ohio and if you look back, it has elected Bill Clinton. In 1992, made Ohio the state that put him over the top. He'd won the election, 1996 Bill Clinton made Ohio again the state that put him over the top. He'd won the elections. Democrats are fighting hard in Ohio. They think because that is a state that is really hurting when it comes to the economy, people still say they're just not feeling any economic recovery. They think they have a real chance for that state and again, if history is any guide, if George Bush doesn't win in Ohio, chances are he will not be reelected Aaron.
BROWN: Does anyone actually believe that because Ohio had the honor of putting John Kerry over the top, that it's going to move five votes come November?
WALLACE: Absolutely not. This is a symbolic move, but a symbolic message coming from Democrats to say they are going to fight hard and they're going to have a real battle in the state of Ohio. In fact, after this convention wraps up and John Kerry and John Edwards begin a cross country bus and train tour to go out and rally after the convention, they will be stopping in Ohio on Saturday, going to a place called Canton, Ohio, in Stark County, very much a swing county. They are just trying to send a message Aaron, they're going to fight hard. They think it's one of these key battlegrounds in this election.
BROWN: And Ohio's a complicated state. There's a Republican governor in Ohio, help me on this. I know there's one Republican senator, I think both. So it's no -- it's clearly not a slam dunk for the Democrats. You talked about the economy. The war will obviously -- terrorism will obviously be issues there. That's a classic state where the party has to be careful of being seen as too liberal, correct?
WALLACE: Absolutely. I mean if you look at the state, just looking at my little cue card here, northern part of the state definitely a Democratic stronghold. You look at the southern part of the state, the Republican base. An important fact though, 36 percent of votes back in 2000 from union households, so the labor vote will be key. And as I was talking to some people Aaron, about what they thought about John Edwards' speech here in Ohio, we got comments like he showed the priorities. He hit it out of the ballpark here and I talked with one person here, a union worker. He said it's all about the economy, health care and jobs in the state.
I asked, well, are you concerned about Iraq? Don't you want to hear more about how John Kerry and John Edwards might try and get U.S. troops out of Iraq? He said no. It's all about getting the country back on track economically. So again and that's from these delegates as they heard what they wanted to hear and they think the economy is the key issue for them.
BROWN: Kelly, thank you for your work tonight, Kelly Wallace in the midst of it all. Joe Klein is with us again. He writes for "Time" and appears with us from time to time as well, Joe, I suspect you take some issue with that delegate from Ohio, who believes that it's all about the economy.
JOE KLEIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: Well, you know, during the primaries, whenever Democrats were polled, they said it was all about the economy. They said it was all about education. They said it was all about health care, but beneath all that, they wanted to have someone who was serious and experienced to go up against George W. Bush and debate him on foreign policy which is what's going to happen this fall and the most important events of this election. So I think Democrats always wanted to be about the economy and in some parts of the country like southeastern Ohio, it is. But in great swatches of this country, in great swaths of this country, it is about security. It is about this war, this very confusing war on terror and this even more confusing war in Iraq.
BROWN: Let's -- your piece this week in the magazine included an interview with Senator Kerry. His night is tomorrow. We talked a little with Nina Easton about this earlier. This is a guy who in various points in the campaign, is not especially effective and then when things get tight, he seems to focus.
KLEIN: Right. Well, you know, I have never seen a really bad acceptance speech. Even Michael Dukakis gave a pretty darn good on in 1988 and even Bob Dole gave a kind of semi-poetic one in 1996. I think John Kerry is going to do better than expected tomorrow night. The question is whether he can make a compelling case for his view of the world. Now one thing that John Edwards did not do at all tonight was make the case against George W. Bush. This is normally the vice president's job. He didn't do that at all. It's kind of strange and unique to me to see that. It will be interesting to see how much John Kerry feels he has to make that case tomorrow night, but he also most important of all, has to make people feel comfortable with him in two ways: one, as a human being, because he's going to be living in your kitchens and dens and family rooms for the next four years and secondly, comfortable as a leader, as a commander in chief.
BROWN: Does he at some point have to explain -- Senator Kerry sometimes is all about nuance and President Bush sometimes is all about black and white. It's good and evil. It's just -- Senator Kerry at some point have to explain in ways that most people in the country understand, his thinking on that $87 billion vote.
KLEIN: I would imagine that he might have to especially since that is President Bush's biggest applause line now in every stump speech he gives. It's the emotional heart of the president's attack on John Kerry and the Republicans attack on John Kerry. But it's a very complicated thing. Republicans pretty much are the party of the simple sentence, strong defense, low taxes, family values. Part of the reason why Democrats always feel so defensive and uncertain is that they're the party of the compound sentence and John Kerry is the candidate of the compound sentence with 16 sub-clauses and codicils and this $87 billion vote not to vote for the $87 billion to continue the action in Iraq, is a very difficult vote to explain.
BROWN: So he has to but you haven't figured out how he does it yet.
KLEIN: Well, I haven't figured out how he does it. I think that the question is whether he has. There have been times when he had been very succinct and eloquent about explaining his vote for the war. It's been tougher for him to explain the $87 billion, because it was a protest vote. He knew that that $87 billion was going to be vote. If he had been the 51st vote and his vote would have cut off the troops in the field and cut off their equipment and supplies, you know he would have voted for it. But he was casting a protest vote against the way the war was being conducted. That's the best I can do with it and we'll see whether John Kerry really wants to own up to that.
BROWN: Joe, we'll talk tomorrow. Thank you. It will be interesting to see how...
KLEIN: Good to be here.
BROWN: Good to see you. Sir, thank you, Joe Klein of "Time" magazine. Take a quick break, first John Edwards takes us to break on what was his night in Boston.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS, DEMOCRATIC VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We hear a lot of talk about values. Where I come from you don't judge somebody's values based on how they use that word in a political ad. You judge their values based upon what they spent their life doing, so when a man volunteers to serve his country, the man volunteers and puts his life on the line for others, that's a man who represents real American values."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: More now with how the convention is being covered and how it's being seen. We're joined from the Fleet Center in Boston tonight by Jonah Goldberg, who's the editor at large or an editor at large for "National Review" online, which is a terrific read and a contributing editor of "National Review." Also with us Howard Kurtz, media critic for the "Washington Post" and host of CNN's "Reliable Sources." We're glad to have both with us. Mr. Kurtz, let me start with you. What's the most underplayed story you think of the convention?
HOWARD KURTZ, "WASHINGTON POST": I think in the last 24 hours, it's Teresa Heinz Kerry's speech, been talking to a lot of journalists and reading a lot of things online, she's not getting rave reviews. A lot of people think she just spent too much time talking about herself and her issues and she didn't do her mission, which was to sell her husband in a personal way that only a wife can, a lot of buzz about that here (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BROWN: Does it matter?
KURTZ: It may not matter in a larger sense, but you know, a convention is a series of opportunities and I think that was probably a missed opportunity for the Kerry campaign. Everybody comes up there, other than the nominee tomorrow night that has a job and Teresa's a controversial figure. That's why she's on the cover of "Newsweek" and I think she's going to remain a controversial figure in this campaign.
BROWN: If that's the most underplayed moment and you may well be right about that, do you have a feel for what the most overplayed moment has been?
KURTZ: It involves the same person. It's Teresa telling that reporter from Pittsburgh to shove it. That must have been -- that approached (UNINTELLIGIBLE) levels it was on the air so many times on the cable networks. It just shows you, with a lack of hard news here, any little controversy, we the 15,000 journalists assembled here at Fleet Center are going to jump on it.
BROWN: We turn to Jonah. Jonah, you've been writing about this for almost anyone who will ask, as any good writer does. You've been on the pages of "USA Today." You haven't found much to like about it all have you?
JONAH GOLDBERG: No, I have to admit I'm becoming more and more of a curmudgeon. I found the whole thing is so prepackaged, so preconceived, I think Howard's right that when you have everything so minutely controlled and micromanaged that the slightest thing that goes off script just consumes the media to a big degree. But basically, what I don't like about this convention is that it's so fake. It's an infomercial. They should be selling steak knives.
BROWN: Any more, I don't necessarily disagree with that but is it any more fake? Is it any more of an infomercial than what conventions had been really for the last eight years certainly, Republican and Democrat?
GOLDBERG: I think that's fair. There were a lot of Republicans. There are a lot of consumers like me who really had a problem with the 2000 convention, the Republican 2000 convention, which really tried to sort of convey the message that compassionate conservatism was a rejection of all the old conservatism and basically bought into the liberal stereotypes and we're seeing that a little bit with the plans for the upcoming Republican convention in the sense that there was a real backlash about the fact that there was very, very few real conservatives who were going to be speaking at the convention. It was all moderates and for a lot of conservatives, a party that's unwilling to put the people who agree with the delegates on the podium is a party that's ashamed of its own principles.
KURTZ: The truth is that it matters less and less in the sense that we're all here inside this kind of Boston bubble. Most people, the ratings make clear, fewer Americans are watching this every four years in the sense of sitting down and watching it as programming. The impressions they get are based on people like (UNINTELLIGIBLE) the headlines, what's on "AMERICAN MORNING" tomorrow, what's on the major network evening news. So they see snippets. They read columns. They form an impression about whether it was a special convention, whether Kerry gave a good enough speech, whether he connected with the audience, all of that I think sometimes we all just get too caught up in the minutia because there's 15,000 of us here and we're hanging on every work, but believe me, America is not.
BROWN: Go ahead Jonah.
GOLDBERG: I was just going to say, I think Howie was right about (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I would actually say that the Teresa Heinz Kerry story was the second most significant story that he'd get enough play. The most significant story was that the ratings are so low to this whole thing. But you can hardly expect a lot of television networks to talk about how no one is watching them (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
BROWN: As someone who represents in this conversation a television network, what one of the things it seems to me that's happened here is the more and more the parties have taken the news out of the convention, the less and less reason there is frankly for people to watch it.
GOLDBERG: I think that's absolutely true. It's not entirely clear that, why everyone was here. The connection's going to be happening if the media weren't here. The media wouldn't be here if the conventions weren't happening.
BROWN: Howie...
GOLDBERG: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Go ahead Aaron.
BROWN: No please, you, last word.
GOLDBERG: Just going to say that everyone's here because for the media this is fun. There are parties. It's kind of a summer camp for journalists. We all have conversations in the hallways about the shrinking lack of significance here. Ironically a convention designed to present John Kerry as a real person, a strong leader, regular guy, is scripted down to the last degree. I'm starting to wonder whether four and eight years from now, there will be even less television coverage and as many journalists as there are here now. But that's a question for another day.
BROWN: Howie, Jonah, good to have you both. Thank you for working with us tonight. We'll take a quick look at those headlines that will help shape peoples' view of the convention. John Mellencamp first.
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BROWN: OK, time to check the morning papers from around the country, around the world. They will help shape peoples' view of the convention but the "International Herald Tribune" went to press early as it must, published in Europe, read mostly in Europe and so it led with a story -- it's strange. It's a little disconcerting sometimes that things did happen today other than the convention and we didn't get to them. That happens when there is a major event going on. Iraq bomber takes a devastating toll, deadliest blast since power handover killed scores of civilians at a police station. It was a horrible thing that happened and a very bad day in other parts of the Iraq as well. The picture on the front page of the "Herald Tribune" is a devastating picture. I'm not sure you can see it very clearly and I'm not sure you want to to be perfectly honest. It's a very tough picture, their political story for Kerry, the long-awaited moment is here and that looking forward to tomorrow.
The "Christian Science Monitor" also looking forward as it needs to. Kerry style of leadership in 2004, it's a race of candidates' kids. There's also a sidebar story, major violence back in Iraq. It's actually been quite a difficult month since the handover in Iraq. It's the kind of thing we'll catch up on I think next week.
"Washington Times" Edwards says Kerry will win the war is their lead story, the picture is John Kerry arriving in Boston Harbor, Kerry ex-crew mates cruise into Boston Harbor. These are the headlines now that the Democrats will be happy to see I believe.
The "Atlanta Journal-Constitution," politics of hope and John Edwards, Edwards rouses convention delegates. Cleland relishes his resurrection. That's Max Cleland, a Georgian who will be part of the proceedings tomorrow.
The "Des Moines Register," Edwards promotes politics of hope. Again this is -- as Howie Kurtz mentioned, the kind of thing that does shape peoples' perceptions.
The "Cincinnati Enquirer," Edwards would choose hope over despair but they also put a big local story, girls' prison under scrutiny, a local prison, obviously with some problems there.
"Boston Herald" with some very tough headlines on John Kerry and the whole Democratic convention, it's a bust, miserable pub merchants wonder where windfall went.
The weather in Chicago tomorrow, because we have to include that is psyched up (ph), according to the "Chicago Sun-Times," our favorite Chicago paper.
Here's Bill Hemmer (ph) with a look at tomorrow's "AMERICAN MORNING."
BILL HEMMER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, thanks. Tomorrow on "AMERICAN MORNING," Democrats getting ready for the star of their show, John Kerry taking the spotlight. We'll talk to his daughters and there's some of his Navy crew mates from when they were altogether in Vietnam.
Also former Secretary of State Madeline Albright is with us and the former mayor from New York, Rudy Giuliani, a full line up yet again on Thursday morning 7:00 Eastern time is our starting time here in Boston, hope to see you then. Aaron.
BROWN: Bill, thank you. "AMERICAN MORNING," 7:00 Eastern time. Quickly or maybe not so quickly, we've got 15 seconds here, so talk to you about the Boston "Herald" which has been very tough on the Democrats, very tough on the Kerry's. Their other story here, Kerry girls gone wild. The story is that the Kerry girls are competing for the attention of Ben Affleck, big story in Boston.
We'll be back tomorrow after the John Kerry acceptance speech, special edition of "LARRY KING LIVE" coming up next. Larry is live in Boston next tonight.
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