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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Statue of Liberty Reopens to Public; A Closer Look at New Terror Alert; U.S. v. Booker

Aired August 03, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.
The Statue of Liberty reopened today after nearly three years. It should have been a perfect moment. It was warm and sunny. The statue itself has undergone a wonderful renovation.

The island was filled with the rich voices of young children. The dignitaries on hand showed the good sense to keep their remarks brief. It should have been perfect but, of course, it wasn't.

Because of Sunday's terror alert, the route to Liberty Island was filled with police. The island itself seemed like a fortress at times. SWAT teams and bomb-sniffing dogs entering the statue itself requires a more rigorous security check than getting on an airplane.

And, of course, there was the memory of this, the reason the statue was closed in the first place. You can't stand on Liberty Island today, see the statue, look across New York Harbor and not think of 9/11.

Did it spoil the day, absolutely not. It was special and it was memorable but did it change the day, you bet it did, like it has changed in many ways, large and small, every day since.

We begin, however, elsewhere with the growing body of knowledge behind the latest terror threat. CNN's Kelli Arena has worked the story today, so Kelli a headline from you tonight.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, there's been a lot of attention focused on potential terror targets and rightfully so but along with the computer disks and documents came alleged al Qaeda operatives and some say that is the real intelligence coup.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.

Next to New York, the precautions and the questions, Deborah Feyerick with that side of the terror alert story, Deb a headline.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the homeland security secretary met with some of the most powerful men on Wall Street today but what was to be something of a reassurance turned into more of a defense -- Aaron.

BROWN: Deb, thanks. And finally, Chicago, Jonathan Freed and the Supreme Court case that is bedeviling the legal system from coast to coast, so Jon a headline from you.

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, chances are that you haven't yet heard of a case called The United States v. Booker but many believe that it is set to make legal history of the highest order.

BROWN: Jon, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight, transcripts from the Kobe Bryant trial and the prosecutors' acknowledgement the case against the basketball star may be in trouble.

And we'll take you to Liberty Island in several ways tonight, the ceremony for one and a wonderful piece on the memories of people when they first saw her.

And the rooster returns tonight as well just in time for morning papers, your morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight somewhere in the middle of something, not to make light of it, just the opposite in fact. The country knows something is happening, New Yorkers and Washingtonians know especially well. What began with an arrest in Pakistan developed into a terror alert over the weekend and it all continues to unfold.

We have two reports tonight beginning first with CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Law enforcement sources tell CNN the recent intelligence indicates there are about 20 potential financial targets, not five as publicly stated. Officials say the targets are broken down into three categories, depending on how much information was gathered on them.

For example, the New York Stock Exchange is in Category 1. Al Qaeda had collected a lot of detail and conducted extensive surveillance. The Bank of America in San Francisco is in Category 2, meaning there is less information in al Qaeda databases.

While the potential targets have received a lot of attention, U.S. and Pakistani officials say the real intelligence coup is coming form interrogations of alleged al Qaeda computer expert Muhammad Naeem Moor Khan.

VOICE OF SHEIKH RASHID AHMAD, PAKISTANI INFORMATION MINISTER: We have some valuable information from them and we are interrogating and investigation (sic) this case and I think this is a great achievement of the security forces.

ARENA: As one source put it, Khan is emerging as a key player in the communications network of al Qaeda. According to intelligence officials, Khan told interrogators al Qaeda used couriers to get messages and computer disks to him. He then posted coded messages on Web sites and quickly deleted the files. According to Khan, he used e-mail addresses and Web sites only a few times to avoid detection.

KEN PIERNICK, FMR. FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: I think he was profoundly significant. That we penetrated into their communications node is just an utter, an absolute coup.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: U.S. government sources say they've asked Pakistani officials to present specific questions to Khan related to ongoing investigations. What's more Pakistani officials say there have been at least seven more arrests of suspected al Qaeda operatives that could be related -- Aaron.

BROWN: Just a couple, I think. Do we know anything about the seven people arrested in Pakistan?

ARENA: Not yet. We were told that one is believed to be an associate of Khan, Aaron, but we have not been able to get that confirmed with any real certainty. We're still waiting to hear.

BROWN: And back on the question of the financial targets, if you will, there are lots of gaps here. One is when this surveillance was done. The other is the question to me is whether there was an actual operation. Do we know?

ARENA: We don't. The officials that I've spoken to have said that they have no evidence of an operational plot, although they're not ruling that out, they're also not ruling out the chance that there may be operatives already in place here in the United States.

And so the first part of your question, Aaron, most of the surveillance it looks like that was done pre-September 11th; however, there is evidence that al Qaeda tried to update its files as late as January of this year.

The question though is whether they did that updating in person with in person surveillance or whether they just went on the web and gathered public information that's readily available and used that to fill in some gaps.

BROWN: And just to be clear on the first part of that the surveillance was done pre-9/11 but the knowledge of the surveillance, the Americans' knowledge of the surveillance is recent, correct?

ARENA: That's right. They just came across these documents and computer disks and found this very detailed surveillance. But, Aaron, what a lot of law enforcement and intelligence officials have continuously pointed out is that al Qaeda is known to surveil targets for years before it actually does anything.

So, the embassy bombings in Africa, for example, surveillance was done two years before al Qaeda actually acted, so they contend that just because the surveillance was done several years ago, although many things have changed obviously since September 11th a lot of that is still viable.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you, Kelli Arena in Washington.

ARENA: You're welcome.

BROWN: Given the gap between what the government knows in cases like these and what it can or will divulge, threat alerts nearly always raise questions. In this case, as Kelli just mentioned, they center on the age of some of the intelligence and boil down to why now?

Today in New York those questions were directed at Tom ridge, the Secretary of Homeland Security, with that part of the story, CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK (voice-over): With armed guards patrolling financial institutions in New York...

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It would appear if you get a call about something like that you get everybody else on the horn and review it.

FEYERICK: The head of homeland security met with corporate executives and security directors from major banking firms, most on the target list, Tom Ridge in town to privately reassure but also publicly defend the intelligence that has thrown parts of New York, New Jersey and Washington, D.C. into a kind of lockdown.

RIDGE: Al Qaeda often plans well, well in advance but we also know that they like to update their information before a potential attack. So, I don't want anyone to disabuse themselves of the seriousness of this information simply because there are some reports that much of it is dated. It might be two or three years old.

FEYERICK: Secretary Ridge saying intelligence shows terror operatives were updating details of potential targets as recently as January, saying also the terrorists are patient and will strike when they can be successful.

RIDGE: We just assume that there are operatives here. Obviously, the law enforcement community has their eyes on people they believe are connected or sympathetic to the cause.

FEYERICK: Missing in the latest intelligence is the timing of a possible attack but officials, citing several sources, have added concern about the Republican National Convention in New York starting in late August.

RIDGE: There has been an expressed intention to disrupt the democratic process. It could be interpreted throughout the election year. It could be interpreted to Election Day. FEYERICK: Intelligence experts are working feverishly to analyze some 500 photographs, drawings and layouts discovered on a computer belonging to a suspected al Qaeda operative arrested last month. Though no one knows exactly what it all means yet, politicians on both sides defended the government's move to raise the alert.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I take every threat seriously. I do not -- I don't discount any threat.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), NEW YORK: The secretary would have been derelict in his duty if he did not put it out and you probably would have been the first one to criticize him had he not done that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: The homeland security chief was asked whether the release of intelligence was somehow politically motivated. He answered, "This isn't about politics. It's about people having confidence in government" -- Aaron.

BROWN: Was he able to offer in either his conversations with reporters today or the best we know with the executives anything more concrete than he had been offering on Sunday?

FEYERICK: He didn't but he was clearly on the defensive. He did not add more details. There were a lot that came out on Sunday. He was really there to kind of act as a buffer against some of the criticism, which is that the information is old, so what does it mean? There are a lot of scared people out there and they want to know, in fact, whether this is something.

BROWN: Anyone who's been downtown in New York today knows what it looks like. Thank you, Deb, Deborah Feyerick.

It's hard to say how this fits into the larger picture or even whether it fits into the larger picture at all but authorities in Britain have 13 men in custody tonight rounded up under provisions of Britain's Terrorism Act, a statement from Scotland Yard saying the men are suspected of being involved in the commission, preparation and investigation of acts of terrorism, just one of many dots that might or might not connect up.

Covers the Justice Department for "U.S. News and World Report." Her latest piece is a reality check on the intelligence picture and this latest alert and she joins us from Washington and we're glad to have her with us tonight.

CHITRA RAGAVAN, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Is there anything that you have learned in the last couple of days that suggests to you that the warning that came out Sunday was either premature or somehow inappropriate?

RAGAVAN: U.S. officials have been taking great pains to explain that, in fact, they have these multiple sources of information that led to Sunday's warning by Secretary Ridge. First, the arrests in Pakistan of the two men that Kelli Arena mentioned in her story that led to computers, hard drives, disks and also cell phones. The NSA went back to phone numbers it had stored in its Echelon satellite database and was able to trace some of these cell phones, U.S. officials say, and to start to put together pieces of the puzzle by going back and listening to some of the information that it had previously collected, which suddenly took on a new light.

At the same time, many of the people who had been picked up in Pakistan, including the two al Qaeda operatives that Kelli mentioned, began to corroborate, U.S. officials say, some of this information as well.

And finally, they say, that they were able to get a piece of specific and separate intelligence, they told "U.S. News," either on Wednesday or Thursday and they would not say what this intelligence was but they say that this further helped to cement their concerns that these financial institutions and others that weren't mentioned on Sunday are in grave -- at grave risk.

BROWN: Let me try this slightly differently. Since the announcement on Sunday is there any indication from sources within the intelligence community that the political side or the administration side went too far?

RAGAVAN: I think you've been reading some of that in the papers and what I've been hearing from people that I've spoken to is that for the most part, even though this information has been released against the backdrop of the presidential elections that are coming up in which the terrorism has become a huge campaign issue, they feel that for the most part the information that was released on Sunday is real and that the threat is real.

BROWN: I know you're working on some of this. Based on the people you've been talking to how big a deal are the two Pakistanis or I guess one is a Pakistani. The other was arrested in Pakistan.

RAGAVAN: That's right. One of the men, Ahmed Ghailani, who you know was involved in the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 and his arrest led to some of the information that was found on the computer hard drives.

And, as one former FBI agent told me, this always comes around to a full circle. You know the same people have been involved in the attacks on U.S. targets from the first bombing of the World Trade Center. And so they took that information very seriously and, as you know, Ghailani is on the FBI's 22 most wanted terrorist list.

BROWN: So, it is no small deal that have in Pakistan and obviously the CIA is involved in at least passing questions through for the interrogation.

RAGAVAN: That's right and the other guy that they picked up is a 25-year-old computer engineer who they allege is responsible for encoding a lot of the communications that al Qaeda leaders have been sending back and forth. So, at least to law enforcement officials they're viewing these arrests as not just a victory themselves but the information they got through the computers and particularly the cell phones I think have been crucial in some of these arrests that you've seen in Pakistan but also in Great Britain and U.S. officials say will be taking place in the coming weeks around the world.

BROWN: Chitra, thank you for joining us, good to have you with us.

RAGAVAN: My pleasure.

BROWN: Come back.

RAGAVAN: Thanks a lot.

BROWN: Thank you.

On to better things, as we said at the top of the program tonight, the Statue of Liberty reopened today. The statue's story is known, at least we hope it is, by every school child in the country. If the latest terror alert is a remind of all that's changed since 9/11, a celebration in New York Harbor today was the measure of resilience.

I was fortunate, very fortunate to be there. Reporters ought not become part of a story, so in that regard participating may have been a minor journalistic sin. Not participating would have been a major life mistake.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: Today we take an important step because today we officially reopen the Statue of Liberty for the first time since September 11th of 2001. But in a broader sense, this statue has never been closed and this statue will never be closed because that torch stands as a sign of our liberty.

GALE NORTON, SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR: Since September 11th, her symbolism has taken on added meaning. Her endurance at the mouth of New York Harbor now symbolizes America's belief in a better tomorrow, her strength in the face of challenges to our liberties.

BROWN: Over her life, the statue has symbolized lots of different things. To freed slaves it was a symbol of their emancipation. For women it was a symbol of the struggle for women's rights. For 24 million families, including mine, it was a symbol of a great journey ended and a greater journey about to begin.

BLOOMBERG: For nearly 120 years, the Statue of Liberty has symbolized I think the openness that makes our nation strong and that's because the definition of tolerance isn't just acceptance of others, it also means toughness and resilience.

BROWN: The statue speaks not just of who we are, a nation of immigrants, but of what we are, a place that regardless of wealth or position or education, regardless of the language we speak or do not speak, we are welcomed here.

PATAKI: Today, the statue is officially reopened but we have to continue our obligation to keep that promise of freedom, that promise of liberty alive for those who come after us.

This country (UNINTELLIGIBLE) said was based on people who came here. "Give me your poor, your tired your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." We breathe in freedom today and we will always breathe in freedom so long as we stand together in defense of this great country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Later in the program tonight, we'll hear from filmmaker Ken Burns. He made a wonderful film about the statue. He's thought a lot about Lady Liberty means to the country.

Also tonight from Americans who have never forgotten, never forgotten their first glimpse of the statue no matter how long ago it was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Statue of Liberty was like a new life for me. I went up to the top and held, I held Dante (ph). I didn't see the liberty. It had to make a turn and when I see it, it was still and I think everybody was still like I can't say dead but -- and I couldn't believe that's the Statue of Liberty. I couldn't believe it that we're going to have a life here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: "Sports Illustrated" is reporting tonight that prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case hope to obtain the testimony from a 22-year-old woman who says the Laker star groped her at a party.

They would use the witness to show that Mr. Bryant has a history of aggressive sexual behavior. If that testimony comes to be, it will be the best news prosecutors have had in a while for there are signs their case is in trouble by their own admission.

Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In public, prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant case have always appeared confident but in a closed door hearing those same prosecutors had less bravado.

Assistant District Attorney Ingrid Bakke, here on the left walking with the alleged victim's mother, told Judge Terry Ruckriegle if he ruled the accuser's sex life could be used as evidence in the trial: "I'm thinking the prosecution is going to sit down and reevaluate the quality of its case and its chances of a successful prosecution." A month after that comment the judge allowed such testimony.

The comment is from transcripts of a closed door hearing in June, reluctantly released by the judge after the news media fought a First Amendment battle. In the 94 pages, Bryant's attorneys called the defense forensics expert, who testified that when the accuser went for her rape exam the day after being with Bryant a different man's DNA was found not only on her underwear but on a part of her body inside her underwear and on her upper thigh.

Dr. Elizabeth Johnson declared it was her opinion the sexual contact with that other man: "Taking everything in totality, likely occurred after (the accuser) and Mr. Bryant were together."

Bryant's attorneys say injuries the woman had could have come from somebody else and that sex the day after a rape would not be logical to a jury but the woman's personal attorney vehemently denies she had sex the day after.

There's no denial she had sex in the days before she was with Bryant and the transcript shows that prosecutors believe the other man's DNA ended up on her body at the rape exam when it was transferred from a pair of underwear she had previously worn.

District Attorney Mark Hurlberg asked Bryant's witness if what she was saying was a hypothesis rather than a theory. Dr. Johnson answered: "It's an opinion based on examination of this evidence. It's based on a lot of scientific findings."

In the transcripts, which the judge regretfully points out is one-sided evidence, the attorneys for the basketball star also declare that tests of the woman's fingernails reveal her DNA but not Bryant's, a not-so-subtle way of trying to prove she didn't try to scratch her alleged attacker.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Coming up on the program tonight, the U.S. Supreme Court takes on an issue that could dramatically change the way criminals are sentenced in the country.

And this, the Statue of Liberty reopening again today, much more on that.

From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's actually been a nasty couple days in Iraq as well.

Not long ago we noted the 50th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education. Fifty years from now another anchor on another program might just devote a moment or so to another Supreme Court ruling in this the case of Blakeley v. Washington.

It dealt with guidelines for federal sentencing, a real snoozer I guess, until you consider that judges hand down some 1,200 sentences every week and the ruling is throwing the entire process into doubt and now that the court is preparing to revisit the subject again.

And so from Chicago tonight CNN's Jonathan Freed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREED (voice-over): Patrick Murphy is the Chief Judge of the U.S. District Court in Southern Illinois and for the last month and a half his legal life has been in a word...

CHIEF JUDGE PATRICK MURPHY, U.S. DISTRICT COURT, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS: Discombobulated.

FREED: The federal court system is reeling from a chain reaction started by a Supreme Court decision in June, a Washington State case that's rocked the rules judges use to sentence criminals. It could affect tens of thousands of federal cases, past and present.

MURPHY: We are in for a period of uncertainty regarding the sentencing guidelines.

FREED: Congress established the rules about 20 years ago trying to ensure people in different parts of the country receive similar punishments for similar crimes. The issue is whether the guidelines are unconstitutional because in some cases...

CHRISTOPHER KELLY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Judges are increasing sentences based on facts that could never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and that aren't submitted to a jury.

FREED: That violates a defendant's Sixth Amendment right to a jury trial, according to the June ruling. Now, the Supreme Court has agreed to hear two other cases in October to determine if that principle should apply to the entire federal system.

Christopher Kelly is the defense attorney in one of those cases. The Booker case from Wisconsin is a common drug conviction that's found uncommon significance.

KELLY: One of the most important guarantees in our Constitution is the right to a jury trial and that right has been diminished and overshadowed for years by the federal sentencing guidelines that allow judges to decide what a defendant did instead of juries.

FREED: In Booker, the guidelines called for a 22-year sentence but the judge added an extra eight years based on additional evidence provided by the prosecution after the jury delivered its verdict.

(on camera): The sentencing guidelines were meant to take the randomness out of it and make it more of a science. That's essentially it, right?

J.B. VAN HOLLEN, U.S. ATTORNEY, WESTERN DISTRICT, WI: Correct. Correct.

FREED (voice-over): J.B. Van Hollen's office prosecuted the Booker case. Until the Supreme Court rules he says all sides are stuck spending precious resources trying to cover every angle in every case and bringing people to justice more slowly as a result.

J.B. VAN HOLLEN, U.S. ATTORNEY: Defense attorneys don't have any better idea of what's happening than we do now. And the judges have no idea what their exact authority is.

REP: But for Chief Judge Murphy, the bigger problem is his belief that the guidelines give too much power to prosecutors.

MURPHY: We now have a system where the prosecutor decides who will be charged, what crime they will be charged for, and to a very real extent, what kind of a sentence they will get.

FREED: Many judges, prosecutors and defense lawyers, hope that, regardless of the Supreme Court's decision, expected in the fall, that Congress will step in and establish new guidelines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREED: Now, the Supreme Court is going to hear the Booker case on October 4th, which is the first day of its new term -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jon, just so I understand, because I'm having one of those slow nights, this is a case where, after the jury comes in with its verdict, the prosecution says there are additional aggravating circumstances, the guy is even worse than you can imagine and the judge says, fine, here's eight more years?

FREED: That's basically it.

What's going on is, the probation department does all of the math and lays out the groundwork and suggested sentence for the judge. And during that time, they are provided with extra evidence from the prosecution that wasn't put before the jury. And then the judge up until now in many cases has been allowed to tack on extra time. If, for example, during the court case, it was proven that person X might have trafficked 30 grams of cocaine, but then during the sentencing, after the conviction, the judge actually finds that he was really into 600 grams, he tacks on extra time.

BROWN: Got it, Jonathan. Thank you, Jonathan Freed, and a tough one tonight.

Still to come on the program, the statue in stills. And Ken Burns joins us, too. Plus, we'll wrap it up, as we always do, with morning papers.

We'll take a break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The Statue of Liberty. When I was 15 years old, I came to New York on a visit. I ran up the stairs -- I could do that then -- all the way to her crown, which you could do then. You can't do that anymore. You can only go to the top of the pedestal. But it is something special that the park service has done there. And if you're in town or heading to town, go see her. It's worth the trip.

Symbols by definition represent something else. By giving form to ideas, they can inspire awe, often do. Their power sometimes makes them targets, though. A lot has changed for all of us since 9/11, but in New York Harbor today, the country got back a part of itself.

Tonight, still photographs help tell the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARAH HENRY, THE MUSEUM OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK: At the base of Manhattan in New York Harbor is a statue called Liberty Enlightening the World. And a lot of people think it's called the Statue of Liberty, but really that's a nickname.

It is this anonymous kind of female figure. In one hand, she holds aloft a torch that enlightens the world. And in the other arm, she holds a tablet that has July 4, 1776, written on it. It is an absolutely enormous statue. It weighs 225 tons. The woman's foot is 25 feet long. You have to remember that, when the Statue of Liberty was erected in New York in 1886, it was the tallest structure in New York City.

It's just over 150 feet tall. And then, if you add the pedestal, the entire structure is just over 300 feet high. And even with all the skyscrapers that have been built, you still get that sense of grandeur and enormity. It is really kind of overwhelming to look up at it.

The idea for the Statue of Liberty arose in 1865 as France's gift to America. And the hope was that it would be completed and given in time for the centennial of the Revolution for 1876, and really is a symbol of the longstanding relationship between France and America and a symbol of its ongoing mutual dedication to liberty.

As immigrants in the late 19th, early 20th century were making this very strenuous voyage by ship and they would enter the narrows and come up to New York, the first thing that they would see was the Statue of Liberty. So they all crowded on to the decks of the boat waiting to get their first glimpse of this famous lady. It was the first taste of America for many people and one that was etched forever in their minds and memories.

Still to this day, if you go in the harbor, it's the first thing that you pass as you approach the city and the city becomes the backdrop. It's an interesting and kind of wonderful relationship, almost a dialogue between this 19th century figure standing there and then this now deeply 21st century city that has grown up beside it as its partner. There were a lot of photographers who took a vista on September 11 that encompassed both this symbol of New York and American ideals and stability and endurance, which was the Statue of Liberty, and this new symbol of terror, instability, unpredictability. You could take them into a single frame. And it was very, very striking to see the statue enduring and the feeling of some stability there and yet also kind of unbelievable that it could be there so unchanged.

The reopening of the Statue of Liberty is part of the symbolic healing of New York. It has been lost certainly to visitors in New York in terms of having it be inaccessible. The idea of liberty being inaccessible is somehow captured in that. So to have it reopened is a kind of completion in one phase of the healing of New York and New Yorkers.

The statue is absolutely an icon. It's an icon of immigration. It's an icon of freedom. It's an icon of New York. It's an icon of America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Of all the major landmarks closed after 9/11, the Statue of Liberty was the last to reopen. It did today amid a cloud of questions about the delay, about the financial dealings of the foundation in charge.

Years ago, filmmaker Ken Burns focused his camera and his unique sensibilities on Lady Liberty. His film about the statue was nominated for an Oscar.

And he joins us tonight from Walpole, New Hampshire, to talk about her.

It's good to see you, by the way.

KEN BURNS, FILMMAKER: Good to see you.

BROWN: It frustrates you some that it has taken so long to let people come back to the island.

BURNS: As we sat in horror in our living room during September 11, people around me were crying. I kept saying, the idea is imperishable. The idea is imperishable. And in a country like ours, formed because of words and ideas and powerful symbols, I think that this should have been the first thing to reopen after September 11.

BROWN: Why did you decide to make a film about it?

BURNS: I was curious about the idea of liberty, the word liberty that we bandy about all the time. And the centennial of the construction's completion was approaching. And I wanted to do something that would add something to the dialogue about it, not just the hoopla about it.

And so we spent several years sleeping out on Liberty Island looking up at her, sensing her fragility, but also the imperishability of her and her strength, learning about the extraordinary history, talking to people, immigrants who had survived horrors elsewhere to come here and find new meaning, to see in Americans a kind of inability to really pierce beyond the word liberty, which we bandy about all the time.

You would ask an American and they would say, well, it means freedom. You would Jerzy Kosinski or Milos Forman or somebody like that and they gave you volumes.

BROWN: There's so many -- actually, a conversation about the statue could go so many directions. It is rather, when you consider how old it is, an extraordinary engineering feat.

BURNS: It is indeed.

I think the one thing we always forget -- and the previous segment reminds us of it -- is that the base, which was designed by an American, is as tall as the statue itself. But Eiffel came in at the right moment to take Bartholdi's design to the reality of being able to ship it over here in crates and set it up and have it stand and endure for so long.

It was a magnificent, wonderful, breathing piece of not just sculpture, but also engineering and, of course, art.

BROWN: And this copper that it is made of is quite thin.

BURNS: Oh, it's hugely -- it's like this, Aaron. It is very, very tiny. And it's on these different sets of iron bars. And it allows a certain amount of elasticity, as the wind blows it and as the structure ages.

BROWN: Do you think that your view of it has changed since 9/11? Do we see her differently post-9/11 than we did before?

BURNS: I think we do. I think we feel the fragility that I was speaking about even more today.

But I think it is important to remember that the idea just remains and that we are a country based on symbols and words and that we need to have -- you know, most other countries have a soldier on a horseback leading into battle. And here, we don't have a belligerent statue. We have a woman raising a torch of enlightenment, carrying in her other arm the book of laws indelibly inscribed with the date of America's independence, July 4, 1776.

This is powerful, powerful stuff. But, you know, my favorite moment, Aaron, is when the statue was still in France being sort of fabricated in this normally quiet Parisian neighborhood in the workshop of Gaget and Gauthier at 25 (SPEAKING FRENCH). And they build this magnificent statue there. And Jules Grevy, the president of the French Republic, comes and pronounces it fine.

And then Victor Hugo, the venerable poet of French democracy, just months before his death, comes in and he looks at Bartholdi, the genius behind it. He looks up at the statue and he says something for the ages. He says, "The idea, it is everything." And I think, from 9/11 on, that idea has taken on more urgency, more resonance, more poignancy.

And I think that's what made today so special and so exciting for everyone who participated.

BROWN: Nice to see you. Thanks for coming with us tonight. Thank you.

BURNS: Nice to see you.

BROWN: Ken Burns.

Go to our Web site, CNN.com/US. There's more on the reopening, what you can do, how you can do it, CNN.com/US.

Ahead on the program, a special look at the statue and the extraordinary memories of the people who passed by.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think about all the immigrants that came through Ellis Island a long time ago, going like -- I was thinking what they must have thought looking at it from the boats coming from another country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: These days, immigrants don't often come by ship sailing to New York Harbor. They never have the moments you're about to hear described. So imagine for a bit what it must have been like a century ago sailing across the Atlantic through rough seas and toward an uncertain future. If you can imagine that part, we can do the rest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVIA ROSEN, PASSED BY STATUE OF LIBERTY: It is so hard to really explain the emotion that you felt when you saw the Statue of Liberty, freedom at last, safety, and America.

I was born in 1914. And we came here in 1923. And I think, even if you were 2 years old, you would remember the Statue of Liberty and the excitement and the tears that everyone just shed.

It was very, very late afternoon. And we suddenly saw people running up on deck. And the excitement. And they said, we're here. We're really in America. Look at the Statue of Liberty. Look at that lovely lady. And people began to cry. We're really here. We made it. And it was a very emotional scene. I will never forget it.

ROSA TATZ, PASSED BY STATUE OF LIBERTY: The Statue of Liberty was like a new life for me. At the beginning, I went up to the top. And I couldn't believe it. That's the Statue of Liberty. I couldn't believe it, that we're going to have a life here. SARAH NEUMARK, PASSED BY STATUE OF LIBERTY: I have always, always been touched by the poem, send me your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free.

I think that is really remarkable. And at one time I knew it very well. Now, at 93, a lot of things, I forget. I was married in 1944. It's part of the romance that led to my marriage. I went with this young man. And not only did we go there, but we went all the way up in the torch to the very top step. It was exciting. It was something very thrilling.

NELLY ANDERSON, PASSED BY STATUE OF LIBERTY: I arrived February '39. I was 29 years old. And America was just my dream and before -- it was pure joy. We came in late at night and the statue was always in light. And in the background were the lights of New York City.

And I was just so excited. I stood at the railing and I felt like screaming. The Statue of Liberty was joy for me. It was freedom. It was light. It was simply unbelievable. I'm old now, but that moment -- missing all that I left behind, my family, my parents. And still I was overjoyed to be here. And that feeling stays because the world has changed so much that nothing is holy anymore.

But when I get down to the Hudson and look at her, it's the same feeling that I had in '39, when I arrived. She protects me. I don't know whether she'll be able to do it forever. Right now, she still does. I have gone at times. I was there about four or five weeks ago on one of the nice Saturdays. I walk down the Hudson and greet the Statue of Liberty, my girl.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country, around the world. I haven't done this in four days, so you never know what's going to happen.

"The Christian Science Monitor" leads political. "In Swing State Battle, Economy Is Key. Con -- Coveted" -- that would be coveted, Aaron. "Coveted Undecideds Weigh Their Economic Woes Against War on Terror. Candidates Strain for Precious Balance Between the Two."

Also out of Iraq, we need to be paying a little more attention to Iraq, all of us. "Sadr's Army Owns City Streets." You get the feeling that things are getting a little messy there. Hmm.

On the front page of "The International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times," note this picture, OK? That's Lynndie England, whose pretrial stuff began today. But just keep that picture in mind, also the headline over there, "Terror Threat Real, Security Chief Says." That would be Mr. Ridge.

Now "The Times" in London. This is the picture. This is so cold, man, they put on the front page of Lynndie England.

Now, can you tighten up on that a little bit, so they can see it a little better?

You couldn't find a more awful picture of this young woman. She's got a lot of trouble and she's pregnant and she's facing a long time in jail. They don't need to make her look worse than -- that's my opinion.

"Atlanta Journal-Constitution." "Girls Held in Kidnapping of Teen's Grandparents." What an awful story that is, by the way.

"The Chicago Sun-Times" ends it. "Gop Down to Final Two, Will Decide Today." That's who is going to run for the Senate against Barack Obama. Alan Keyes is one of them. "Ready is rumble" is the weather tomorrow in Chicago.

We'll wrap it up for the night in moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we go, quick program note. The latest terror alert is raising a good many questions, not the least of which is, how worried should we be? Is there political motivation? And lots more. We'll try and get some answers tomorrow. We'll talk with the secretary of homeland security, Tom Ridge. If all goes well -- and I expect it will -- we'll extend the interview some. That's tomorrow on the program.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" for most of you. We'll see you tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern.

Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired August 3, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again.
The Statue of Liberty reopened today after nearly three years. It should have been a perfect moment. It was warm and sunny. The statue itself has undergone a wonderful renovation.

The island was filled with the rich voices of young children. The dignitaries on hand showed the good sense to keep their remarks brief. It should have been perfect but, of course, it wasn't.

Because of Sunday's terror alert, the route to Liberty Island was filled with police. The island itself seemed like a fortress at times. SWAT teams and bomb-sniffing dogs entering the statue itself requires a more rigorous security check than getting on an airplane.

And, of course, there was the memory of this, the reason the statue was closed in the first place. You can't stand on Liberty Island today, see the statue, look across New York Harbor and not think of 9/11.

Did it spoil the day, absolutely not. It was special and it was memorable but did it change the day, you bet it did, like it has changed in many ways, large and small, every day since.

We begin, however, elsewhere with the growing body of knowledge behind the latest terror threat. CNN's Kelli Arena has worked the story today, so Kelli a headline from you tonight.

KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, there's been a lot of attention focused on potential terror targets and rightfully so but along with the computer disks and documents came alleged al Qaeda operatives and some say that is the real intelligence coup.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.

Next to New York, the precautions and the questions, Deborah Feyerick with that side of the terror alert story, Deb a headline.

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the homeland security secretary met with some of the most powerful men on Wall Street today but what was to be something of a reassurance turned into more of a defense -- Aaron.

BROWN: Deb, thanks. And finally, Chicago, Jonathan Freed and the Supreme Court case that is bedeviling the legal system from coast to coast, so Jon a headline from you.

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, chances are that you haven't yet heard of a case called The United States v. Booker but many believe that it is set to make legal history of the highest order.

BROWN: Jon, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight, transcripts from the Kobe Bryant trial and the prosecutors' acknowledgement the case against the basketball star may be in trouble.

And we'll take you to Liberty Island in several ways tonight, the ceremony for one and a wonderful piece on the memories of people when they first saw her.

And the rooster returns tonight as well just in time for morning papers, your morning papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight somewhere in the middle of something, not to make light of it, just the opposite in fact. The country knows something is happening, New Yorkers and Washingtonians know especially well. What began with an arrest in Pakistan developed into a terror alert over the weekend and it all continues to unfold.

We have two reports tonight beginning first with CNN's Kelli Arena.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA (voice-over): Law enforcement sources tell CNN the recent intelligence indicates there are about 20 potential financial targets, not five as publicly stated. Officials say the targets are broken down into three categories, depending on how much information was gathered on them.

For example, the New York Stock Exchange is in Category 1. Al Qaeda had collected a lot of detail and conducted extensive surveillance. The Bank of America in San Francisco is in Category 2, meaning there is less information in al Qaeda databases.

While the potential targets have received a lot of attention, U.S. and Pakistani officials say the real intelligence coup is coming form interrogations of alleged al Qaeda computer expert Muhammad Naeem Moor Khan.

VOICE OF SHEIKH RASHID AHMAD, PAKISTANI INFORMATION MINISTER: We have some valuable information from them and we are interrogating and investigation (sic) this case and I think this is a great achievement of the security forces.

ARENA: As one source put it, Khan is emerging as a key player in the communications network of al Qaeda. According to intelligence officials, Khan told interrogators al Qaeda used couriers to get messages and computer disks to him. He then posted coded messages on Web sites and quickly deleted the files. According to Khan, he used e-mail addresses and Web sites only a few times to avoid detection.

KEN PIERNICK, FMR. FBI COUNTERTERRORISM OFFICIAL: I think he was profoundly significant. That we penetrated into their communications node is just an utter, an absolute coup.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ARENA: U.S. government sources say they've asked Pakistani officials to present specific questions to Khan related to ongoing investigations. What's more Pakistani officials say there have been at least seven more arrests of suspected al Qaeda operatives that could be related -- Aaron.

BROWN: Just a couple, I think. Do we know anything about the seven people arrested in Pakistan?

ARENA: Not yet. We were told that one is believed to be an associate of Khan, Aaron, but we have not been able to get that confirmed with any real certainty. We're still waiting to hear.

BROWN: And back on the question of the financial targets, if you will, there are lots of gaps here. One is when this surveillance was done. The other is the question to me is whether there was an actual operation. Do we know?

ARENA: We don't. The officials that I've spoken to have said that they have no evidence of an operational plot, although they're not ruling that out, they're also not ruling out the chance that there may be operatives already in place here in the United States.

And so the first part of your question, Aaron, most of the surveillance it looks like that was done pre-September 11th; however, there is evidence that al Qaeda tried to update its files as late as January of this year.

The question though is whether they did that updating in person with in person surveillance or whether they just went on the web and gathered public information that's readily available and used that to fill in some gaps.

BROWN: And just to be clear on the first part of that the surveillance was done pre-9/11 but the knowledge of the surveillance, the Americans' knowledge of the surveillance is recent, correct?

ARENA: That's right. They just came across these documents and computer disks and found this very detailed surveillance. But, Aaron, what a lot of law enforcement and intelligence officials have continuously pointed out is that al Qaeda is known to surveil targets for years before it actually does anything.

So, the embassy bombings in Africa, for example, surveillance was done two years before al Qaeda actually acted, so they contend that just because the surveillance was done several years ago, although many things have changed obviously since September 11th a lot of that is still viable.

BROWN: Kelli, thank you, Kelli Arena in Washington.

ARENA: You're welcome.

BROWN: Given the gap between what the government knows in cases like these and what it can or will divulge, threat alerts nearly always raise questions. In this case, as Kelli just mentioned, they center on the age of some of the intelligence and boil down to why now?

Today in New York those questions were directed at Tom ridge, the Secretary of Homeland Security, with that part of the story, CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK (voice-over): With armed guards patrolling financial institutions in New York...

TOM RIDGE, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It would appear if you get a call about something like that you get everybody else on the horn and review it.

FEYERICK: The head of homeland security met with corporate executives and security directors from major banking firms, most on the target list, Tom Ridge in town to privately reassure but also publicly defend the intelligence that has thrown parts of New York, New Jersey and Washington, D.C. into a kind of lockdown.

RIDGE: Al Qaeda often plans well, well in advance but we also know that they like to update their information before a potential attack. So, I don't want anyone to disabuse themselves of the seriousness of this information simply because there are some reports that much of it is dated. It might be two or three years old.

FEYERICK: Secretary Ridge saying intelligence shows terror operatives were updating details of potential targets as recently as January, saying also the terrorists are patient and will strike when they can be successful.

RIDGE: We just assume that there are operatives here. Obviously, the law enforcement community has their eyes on people they believe are connected or sympathetic to the cause.

FEYERICK: Missing in the latest intelligence is the timing of a possible attack but officials, citing several sources, have added concern about the Republican National Convention in New York starting in late August.

RIDGE: There has been an expressed intention to disrupt the democratic process. It could be interpreted throughout the election year. It could be interpreted to Election Day. FEYERICK: Intelligence experts are working feverishly to analyze some 500 photographs, drawings and layouts discovered on a computer belonging to a suspected al Qaeda operative arrested last month. Though no one knows exactly what it all means yet, politicians on both sides defended the government's move to raise the alert.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I take every threat seriously. I do not -- I don't discount any threat.

MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (D), NEW YORK: The secretary would have been derelict in his duty if he did not put it out and you probably would have been the first one to criticize him had he not done that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: The homeland security chief was asked whether the release of intelligence was somehow politically motivated. He answered, "This isn't about politics. It's about people having confidence in government" -- Aaron.

BROWN: Was he able to offer in either his conversations with reporters today or the best we know with the executives anything more concrete than he had been offering on Sunday?

FEYERICK: He didn't but he was clearly on the defensive. He did not add more details. There were a lot that came out on Sunday. He was really there to kind of act as a buffer against some of the criticism, which is that the information is old, so what does it mean? There are a lot of scared people out there and they want to know, in fact, whether this is something.

BROWN: Anyone who's been downtown in New York today knows what it looks like. Thank you, Deb, Deborah Feyerick.

It's hard to say how this fits into the larger picture or even whether it fits into the larger picture at all but authorities in Britain have 13 men in custody tonight rounded up under provisions of Britain's Terrorism Act, a statement from Scotland Yard saying the men are suspected of being involved in the commission, preparation and investigation of acts of terrorism, just one of many dots that might or might not connect up.

Covers the Justice Department for "U.S. News and World Report." Her latest piece is a reality check on the intelligence picture and this latest alert and she joins us from Washington and we're glad to have her with us tonight.

CHITRA RAGAVAN, "U.S. NEWS AND WORLD REPORT": Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Is there anything that you have learned in the last couple of days that suggests to you that the warning that came out Sunday was either premature or somehow inappropriate?

RAGAVAN: U.S. officials have been taking great pains to explain that, in fact, they have these multiple sources of information that led to Sunday's warning by Secretary Ridge. First, the arrests in Pakistan of the two men that Kelli Arena mentioned in her story that led to computers, hard drives, disks and also cell phones. The NSA went back to phone numbers it had stored in its Echelon satellite database and was able to trace some of these cell phones, U.S. officials say, and to start to put together pieces of the puzzle by going back and listening to some of the information that it had previously collected, which suddenly took on a new light.

At the same time, many of the people who had been picked up in Pakistan, including the two al Qaeda operatives that Kelli mentioned, began to corroborate, U.S. officials say, some of this information as well.

And finally, they say, that they were able to get a piece of specific and separate intelligence, they told "U.S. News," either on Wednesday or Thursday and they would not say what this intelligence was but they say that this further helped to cement their concerns that these financial institutions and others that weren't mentioned on Sunday are in grave -- at grave risk.

BROWN: Let me try this slightly differently. Since the announcement on Sunday is there any indication from sources within the intelligence community that the political side or the administration side went too far?

RAGAVAN: I think you've been reading some of that in the papers and what I've been hearing from people that I've spoken to is that for the most part, even though this information has been released against the backdrop of the presidential elections that are coming up in which the terrorism has become a huge campaign issue, they feel that for the most part the information that was released on Sunday is real and that the threat is real.

BROWN: I know you're working on some of this. Based on the people you've been talking to how big a deal are the two Pakistanis or I guess one is a Pakistani. The other was arrested in Pakistan.

RAGAVAN: That's right. One of the men, Ahmed Ghailani, who you know was involved in the bombings of the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998 and his arrest led to some of the information that was found on the computer hard drives.

And, as one former FBI agent told me, this always comes around to a full circle. You know the same people have been involved in the attacks on U.S. targets from the first bombing of the World Trade Center. And so they took that information very seriously and, as you know, Ghailani is on the FBI's 22 most wanted terrorist list.

BROWN: So, it is no small deal that have in Pakistan and obviously the CIA is involved in at least passing questions through for the interrogation.

RAGAVAN: That's right and the other guy that they picked up is a 25-year-old computer engineer who they allege is responsible for encoding a lot of the communications that al Qaeda leaders have been sending back and forth. So, at least to law enforcement officials they're viewing these arrests as not just a victory themselves but the information they got through the computers and particularly the cell phones I think have been crucial in some of these arrests that you've seen in Pakistan but also in Great Britain and U.S. officials say will be taking place in the coming weeks around the world.

BROWN: Chitra, thank you for joining us, good to have you with us.

RAGAVAN: My pleasure.

BROWN: Come back.

RAGAVAN: Thanks a lot.

BROWN: Thank you.

On to better things, as we said at the top of the program tonight, the Statue of Liberty reopened today. The statue's story is known, at least we hope it is, by every school child in the country. If the latest terror alert is a remind of all that's changed since 9/11, a celebration in New York Harbor today was the measure of resilience.

I was fortunate, very fortunate to be there. Reporters ought not become part of a story, so in that regard participating may have been a minor journalistic sin. Not participating would have been a major life mistake.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOV. GEORGE PATAKI (R), NEW YORK: Today we take an important step because today we officially reopen the Statue of Liberty for the first time since September 11th of 2001. But in a broader sense, this statue has never been closed and this statue will never be closed because that torch stands as a sign of our liberty.

GALE NORTON, SECRETARY OF THE INTERIOR: Since September 11th, her symbolism has taken on added meaning. Her endurance at the mouth of New York Harbor now symbolizes America's belief in a better tomorrow, her strength in the face of challenges to our liberties.

BROWN: Over her life, the statue has symbolized lots of different things. To freed slaves it was a symbol of their emancipation. For women it was a symbol of the struggle for women's rights. For 24 million families, including mine, it was a symbol of a great journey ended and a greater journey about to begin.

BLOOMBERG: For nearly 120 years, the Statue of Liberty has symbolized I think the openness that makes our nation strong and that's because the definition of tolerance isn't just acceptance of others, it also means toughness and resilience.

BROWN: The statue speaks not just of who we are, a nation of immigrants, but of what we are, a place that regardless of wealth or position or education, regardless of the language we speak or do not speak, we are welcomed here.

PATAKI: Today, the statue is officially reopened but we have to continue our obligation to keep that promise of freedom, that promise of liberty alive for those who come after us.

This country (UNINTELLIGIBLE) said was based on people who came here. "Give me your poor, your tired your huddled masses yearning to breathe free." We breathe in freedom today and we will always breathe in freedom so long as we stand together in defense of this great country.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Later in the program tonight, we'll hear from filmmaker Ken Burns. He made a wonderful film about the statue. He's thought a lot about Lady Liberty means to the country.

Also tonight from Americans who have never forgotten, never forgotten their first glimpse of the statue no matter how long ago it was.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Statue of Liberty was like a new life for me. I went up to the top and held, I held Dante (ph). I didn't see the liberty. It had to make a turn and when I see it, it was still and I think everybody was still like I can't say dead but -- and I couldn't believe that's the Statue of Liberty. I couldn't believe it that we're going to have a life here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: "Sports Illustrated" is reporting tonight that prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant sexual assault case hope to obtain the testimony from a 22-year-old woman who says the Laker star groped her at a party.

They would use the witness to show that Mr. Bryant has a history of aggressive sexual behavior. If that testimony comes to be, it will be the best news prosecutors have had in a while for there are signs their case is in trouble by their own admission.

Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In public, prosecutors in the Kobe Bryant case have always appeared confident but in a closed door hearing those same prosecutors had less bravado.

Assistant District Attorney Ingrid Bakke, here on the left walking with the alleged victim's mother, told Judge Terry Ruckriegle if he ruled the accuser's sex life could be used as evidence in the trial: "I'm thinking the prosecution is going to sit down and reevaluate the quality of its case and its chances of a successful prosecution." A month after that comment the judge allowed such testimony.

The comment is from transcripts of a closed door hearing in June, reluctantly released by the judge after the news media fought a First Amendment battle. In the 94 pages, Bryant's attorneys called the defense forensics expert, who testified that when the accuser went for her rape exam the day after being with Bryant a different man's DNA was found not only on her underwear but on a part of her body inside her underwear and on her upper thigh.

Dr. Elizabeth Johnson declared it was her opinion the sexual contact with that other man: "Taking everything in totality, likely occurred after (the accuser) and Mr. Bryant were together."

Bryant's attorneys say injuries the woman had could have come from somebody else and that sex the day after a rape would not be logical to a jury but the woman's personal attorney vehemently denies she had sex the day after.

There's no denial she had sex in the days before she was with Bryant and the transcript shows that prosecutors believe the other man's DNA ended up on her body at the rape exam when it was transferred from a pair of underwear she had previously worn.

District Attorney Mark Hurlberg asked Bryant's witness if what she was saying was a hypothesis rather than a theory. Dr. Johnson answered: "It's an opinion based on examination of this evidence. It's based on a lot of scientific findings."

In the transcripts, which the judge regretfully points out is one-sided evidence, the attorneys for the basketball star also declare that tests of the woman's fingernails reveal her DNA but not Bryant's, a not-so-subtle way of trying to prove she didn't try to scratch her alleged attacker.

Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Coming up on the program tonight, the U.S. Supreme Court takes on an issue that could dramatically change the way criminals are sentenced in the country.

And this, the Statue of Liberty reopening again today, much more on that.

From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's actually been a nasty couple days in Iraq as well.

Not long ago we noted the 50th anniversary of Brown v. Board of Education. Fifty years from now another anchor on another program might just devote a moment or so to another Supreme Court ruling in this the case of Blakeley v. Washington.

It dealt with guidelines for federal sentencing, a real snoozer I guess, until you consider that judges hand down some 1,200 sentences every week and the ruling is throwing the entire process into doubt and now that the court is preparing to revisit the subject again.

And so from Chicago tonight CNN's Jonathan Freed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREED (voice-over): Patrick Murphy is the Chief Judge of the U.S. District Court in Southern Illinois and for the last month and a half his legal life has been in a word...

CHIEF JUDGE PATRICK MURPHY, U.S. DISTRICT COURT, SOUTHERN ILLINOIS: Discombobulated.

FREED: The federal court system is reeling from a chain reaction started by a Supreme Court decision in June, a Washington State case that's rocked the rules judges use to sentence criminals. It could affect tens of thousands of federal cases, past and present.

MURPHY: We are in for a period of uncertainty regarding the sentencing guidelines.

FREED: Congress established the rules about 20 years ago trying to ensure people in different parts of the country receive similar punishments for similar crimes. The issue is whether the guidelines are unconstitutional because in some cases...

CHRISTOPHER KELLY, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Judges are increasing sentences based on facts that could never be proven beyond a reasonable doubt and that aren't submitted to a jury.

FREED: That violates a defendant's Sixth Amendment right to a jury trial, according to the June ruling. Now, the Supreme Court has agreed to hear two other cases in October to determine if that principle should apply to the entire federal system.

Christopher Kelly is the defense attorney in one of those cases. The Booker case from Wisconsin is a common drug conviction that's found uncommon significance.

KELLY: One of the most important guarantees in our Constitution is the right to a jury trial and that right has been diminished and overshadowed for years by the federal sentencing guidelines that allow judges to decide what a defendant did instead of juries.

FREED: In Booker, the guidelines called for a 22-year sentence but the judge added an extra eight years based on additional evidence provided by the prosecution after the jury delivered its verdict.

(on camera): The sentencing guidelines were meant to take the randomness out of it and make it more of a science. That's essentially it, right?

J.B. VAN HOLLEN, U.S. ATTORNEY, WESTERN DISTRICT, WI: Correct. Correct.

FREED (voice-over): J.B. Van Hollen's office prosecuted the Booker case. Until the Supreme Court rules he says all sides are stuck spending precious resources trying to cover every angle in every case and bringing people to justice more slowly as a result.

J.B. VAN HOLLEN, U.S. ATTORNEY: Defense attorneys don't have any better idea of what's happening than we do now. And the judges have no idea what their exact authority is.

REP: But for Chief Judge Murphy, the bigger problem is his belief that the guidelines give too much power to prosecutors.

MURPHY: We now have a system where the prosecutor decides who will be charged, what crime they will be charged for, and to a very real extent, what kind of a sentence they will get.

FREED: Many judges, prosecutors and defense lawyers, hope that, regardless of the Supreme Court's decision, expected in the fall, that Congress will step in and establish new guidelines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREED: Now, the Supreme Court is going to hear the Booker case on October 4th, which is the first day of its new term -- Aaron.

BROWN: Jon, just so I understand, because I'm having one of those slow nights, this is a case where, after the jury comes in with its verdict, the prosecution says there are additional aggravating circumstances, the guy is even worse than you can imagine and the judge says, fine, here's eight more years?

FREED: That's basically it.

What's going on is, the probation department does all of the math and lays out the groundwork and suggested sentence for the judge. And during that time, they are provided with extra evidence from the prosecution that wasn't put before the jury. And then the judge up until now in many cases has been allowed to tack on extra time. If, for example, during the court case, it was proven that person X might have trafficked 30 grams of cocaine, but then during the sentencing, after the conviction, the judge actually finds that he was really into 600 grams, he tacks on extra time.

BROWN: Got it, Jonathan. Thank you, Jonathan Freed, and a tough one tonight.

Still to come on the program, the statue in stills. And Ken Burns joins us, too. Plus, we'll wrap it up, as we always do, with morning papers.

We'll take a break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The Statue of Liberty. When I was 15 years old, I came to New York on a visit. I ran up the stairs -- I could do that then -- all the way to her crown, which you could do then. You can't do that anymore. You can only go to the top of the pedestal. But it is something special that the park service has done there. And if you're in town or heading to town, go see her. It's worth the trip.

Symbols by definition represent something else. By giving form to ideas, they can inspire awe, often do. Their power sometimes makes them targets, though. A lot has changed for all of us since 9/11, but in New York Harbor today, the country got back a part of itself.

Tonight, still photographs help tell the story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARAH HENRY, THE MUSEUM OF THE CITY OF NEW YORK: At the base of Manhattan in New York Harbor is a statue called Liberty Enlightening the World. And a lot of people think it's called the Statue of Liberty, but really that's a nickname.

It is this anonymous kind of female figure. In one hand, she holds aloft a torch that enlightens the world. And in the other arm, she holds a tablet that has July 4, 1776, written on it. It is an absolutely enormous statue. It weighs 225 tons. The woman's foot is 25 feet long. You have to remember that, when the Statue of Liberty was erected in New York in 1886, it was the tallest structure in New York City.

It's just over 150 feet tall. And then, if you add the pedestal, the entire structure is just over 300 feet high. And even with all the skyscrapers that have been built, you still get that sense of grandeur and enormity. It is really kind of overwhelming to look up at it.

The idea for the Statue of Liberty arose in 1865 as France's gift to America. And the hope was that it would be completed and given in time for the centennial of the Revolution for 1876, and really is a symbol of the longstanding relationship between France and America and a symbol of its ongoing mutual dedication to liberty.

As immigrants in the late 19th, early 20th century were making this very strenuous voyage by ship and they would enter the narrows and come up to New York, the first thing that they would see was the Statue of Liberty. So they all crowded on to the decks of the boat waiting to get their first glimpse of this famous lady. It was the first taste of America for many people and one that was etched forever in their minds and memories.

Still to this day, if you go in the harbor, it's the first thing that you pass as you approach the city and the city becomes the backdrop. It's an interesting and kind of wonderful relationship, almost a dialogue between this 19th century figure standing there and then this now deeply 21st century city that has grown up beside it as its partner. There were a lot of photographers who took a vista on September 11 that encompassed both this symbol of New York and American ideals and stability and endurance, which was the Statue of Liberty, and this new symbol of terror, instability, unpredictability. You could take them into a single frame. And it was very, very striking to see the statue enduring and the feeling of some stability there and yet also kind of unbelievable that it could be there so unchanged.

The reopening of the Statue of Liberty is part of the symbolic healing of New York. It has been lost certainly to visitors in New York in terms of having it be inaccessible. The idea of liberty being inaccessible is somehow captured in that. So to have it reopened is a kind of completion in one phase of the healing of New York and New Yorkers.

The statue is absolutely an icon. It's an icon of immigration. It's an icon of freedom. It's an icon of New York. It's an icon of America.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Of all the major landmarks closed after 9/11, the Statue of Liberty was the last to reopen. It did today amid a cloud of questions about the delay, about the financial dealings of the foundation in charge.

Years ago, filmmaker Ken Burns focused his camera and his unique sensibilities on Lady Liberty. His film about the statue was nominated for an Oscar.

And he joins us tonight from Walpole, New Hampshire, to talk about her.

It's good to see you, by the way.

KEN BURNS, FILMMAKER: Good to see you.

BROWN: It frustrates you some that it has taken so long to let people come back to the island.

BURNS: As we sat in horror in our living room during September 11, people around me were crying. I kept saying, the idea is imperishable. The idea is imperishable. And in a country like ours, formed because of words and ideas and powerful symbols, I think that this should have been the first thing to reopen after September 11.

BROWN: Why did you decide to make a film about it?

BURNS: I was curious about the idea of liberty, the word liberty that we bandy about all the time. And the centennial of the construction's completion was approaching. And I wanted to do something that would add something to the dialogue about it, not just the hoopla about it.

And so we spent several years sleeping out on Liberty Island looking up at her, sensing her fragility, but also the imperishability of her and her strength, learning about the extraordinary history, talking to people, immigrants who had survived horrors elsewhere to come here and find new meaning, to see in Americans a kind of inability to really pierce beyond the word liberty, which we bandy about all the time.

You would ask an American and they would say, well, it means freedom. You would Jerzy Kosinski or Milos Forman or somebody like that and they gave you volumes.

BROWN: There's so many -- actually, a conversation about the statue could go so many directions. It is rather, when you consider how old it is, an extraordinary engineering feat.

BURNS: It is indeed.

I think the one thing we always forget -- and the previous segment reminds us of it -- is that the base, which was designed by an American, is as tall as the statue itself. But Eiffel came in at the right moment to take Bartholdi's design to the reality of being able to ship it over here in crates and set it up and have it stand and endure for so long.

It was a magnificent, wonderful, breathing piece of not just sculpture, but also engineering and, of course, art.

BROWN: And this copper that it is made of is quite thin.

BURNS: Oh, it's hugely -- it's like this, Aaron. It is very, very tiny. And it's on these different sets of iron bars. And it allows a certain amount of elasticity, as the wind blows it and as the structure ages.

BROWN: Do you think that your view of it has changed since 9/11? Do we see her differently post-9/11 than we did before?

BURNS: I think we do. I think we feel the fragility that I was speaking about even more today.

But I think it is important to remember that the idea just remains and that we are a country based on symbols and words and that we need to have -- you know, most other countries have a soldier on a horseback leading into battle. And here, we don't have a belligerent statue. We have a woman raising a torch of enlightenment, carrying in her other arm the book of laws indelibly inscribed with the date of America's independence, July 4, 1776.

This is powerful, powerful stuff. But, you know, my favorite moment, Aaron, is when the statue was still in France being sort of fabricated in this normally quiet Parisian neighborhood in the workshop of Gaget and Gauthier at 25 (SPEAKING FRENCH). And they build this magnificent statue there. And Jules Grevy, the president of the French Republic, comes and pronounces it fine.

And then Victor Hugo, the venerable poet of French democracy, just months before his death, comes in and he looks at Bartholdi, the genius behind it. He looks up at the statue and he says something for the ages. He says, "The idea, it is everything." And I think, from 9/11 on, that idea has taken on more urgency, more resonance, more poignancy.

And I think that's what made today so special and so exciting for everyone who participated.

BROWN: Nice to see you. Thanks for coming with us tonight. Thank you.

BURNS: Nice to see you.

BROWN: Ken Burns.

Go to our Web site, CNN.com/US. There's more on the reopening, what you can do, how you can do it, CNN.com/US.

Ahead on the program, a special look at the statue and the extraordinary memories of the people who passed by.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think about all the immigrants that came through Ellis Island a long time ago, going like -- I was thinking what they must have thought looking at it from the boats coming from another country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: These days, immigrants don't often come by ship sailing to New York Harbor. They never have the moments you're about to hear described. So imagine for a bit what it must have been like a century ago sailing across the Atlantic through rough seas and toward an uncertain future. If you can imagine that part, we can do the rest.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SYLVIA ROSEN, PASSED BY STATUE OF LIBERTY: It is so hard to really explain the emotion that you felt when you saw the Statue of Liberty, freedom at last, safety, and America.

I was born in 1914. And we came here in 1923. And I think, even if you were 2 years old, you would remember the Statue of Liberty and the excitement and the tears that everyone just shed.

It was very, very late afternoon. And we suddenly saw people running up on deck. And the excitement. And they said, we're here. We're really in America. Look at the Statue of Liberty. Look at that lovely lady. And people began to cry. We're really here. We made it. And it was a very emotional scene. I will never forget it.

ROSA TATZ, PASSED BY STATUE OF LIBERTY: The Statue of Liberty was like a new life for me. At the beginning, I went up to the top. And I couldn't believe it. That's the Statue of Liberty. I couldn't believe it, that we're going to have a life here. SARAH NEUMARK, PASSED BY STATUE OF LIBERTY: I have always, always been touched by the poem, send me your poor, your huddled masses yearning to be free.

I think that is really remarkable. And at one time I knew it very well. Now, at 93, a lot of things, I forget. I was married in 1944. It's part of the romance that led to my marriage. I went with this young man. And not only did we go there, but we went all the way up in the torch to the very top step. It was exciting. It was something very thrilling.

NELLY ANDERSON, PASSED BY STATUE OF LIBERTY: I arrived February '39. I was 29 years old. And America was just my dream and before -- it was pure joy. We came in late at night and the statue was always in light. And in the background were the lights of New York City.

And I was just so excited. I stood at the railing and I felt like screaming. The Statue of Liberty was joy for me. It was freedom. It was light. It was simply unbelievable. I'm old now, but that moment -- missing all that I left behind, my family, my parents. And still I was overjoyed to be here. And that feeling stays because the world has changed so much that nothing is holy anymore.

But when I get down to the Hudson and look at her, it's the same feeling that I had in '39, when I arrived. She protects me. I don't know whether she'll be able to do it forever. Right now, she still does. I have gone at times. I was there about four or five weeks ago on one of the nice Saturdays. I walk down the Hudson and greet the Statue of Liberty, my girl.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country, around the world. I haven't done this in four days, so you never know what's going to happen.

"The Christian Science Monitor" leads political. "In Swing State Battle, Economy Is Key. Con -- Coveted" -- that would be coveted, Aaron. "Coveted Undecideds Weigh Their Economic Woes Against War on Terror. Candidates Strain for Precious Balance Between the Two."

Also out of Iraq, we need to be paying a little more attention to Iraq, all of us. "Sadr's Army Owns City Streets." You get the feeling that things are getting a little messy there. Hmm.

On the front page of "The International Herald Tribune," published by "The New York Times," note this picture, OK? That's Lynndie England, whose pretrial stuff began today. But just keep that picture in mind, also the headline over there, "Terror Threat Real, Security Chief Says." That would be Mr. Ridge.

Now "The Times" in London. This is the picture. This is so cold, man, they put on the front page of Lynndie England.

Now, can you tighten up on that a little bit, so they can see it a little better?

You couldn't find a more awful picture of this young woman. She's got a lot of trouble and she's pregnant and she's facing a long time in jail. They don't need to make her look worse than -- that's my opinion.

"Atlanta Journal-Constitution." "Girls Held in Kidnapping of Teen's Grandparents." What an awful story that is, by the way.

"The Chicago Sun-Times" ends it. "Gop Down to Final Two, Will Decide Today." That's who is going to run for the Senate against Barack Obama. Alan Keyes is one of them. "Ready is rumble" is the weather tomorrow in Chicago.

We'll wrap it up for the night in moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Before we go, quick program note. The latest terror alert is raising a good many questions, not the least of which is, how worried should we be? Is there political motivation? And lots more. We'll try and get some answers tomorrow. We'll talk with the secretary of homeland security, Tom Ridge. If all goes well -- and I expect it will -- we'll extend the interview some. That's tomorrow on the program.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" for most of you. We'll see you tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern.

Good night for all of us.

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