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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

FBI Has Evidence of High-Level Israeli Spy in Pentagon; Bush Gives CIA Director Broader Powers

Aired August 27, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, good evening to all of you.
For some time now we have all been walking through a darkened house of mirrors, catching only a glimpse here and there of how the world of espionage, intelligence, shapes and moves our world and, every time we look, we are reminded how little we really know about the things we most need to learn, like about al Qaeda operatives learning to fly or the absence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or the possibility of another terror attack.

And then we are further reminded the world of spying cuts both ways, the failings of our own intelligence possibly compounded by the secret success of a spy working for an ally. We remember the words of Charles de Gaulle, "Nations don't have friends. They have interests," but tonight we wonder if we were duped in ways that we will never know.

And so the whip begins in Washington, CNN's David Ensor reporting, David the headline from there.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Miles, senior administration officials are telling us that the FBI has evidence indicating there may be a high level spy in the Pentagon and here's the surprising part. The spy is allegedly spying on behalf of Israel -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: David Ensor in Washington.

On now to another intelligence story, the one that led the coverage just a few hours ago, changes announced by the president today. John King, our Senior White House Correspondent, working on that, John a headline from you.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Miles, the president signed three executive orders today, among them one giving the CIA interim authority, broader powers in the short term while the president and the Congress try to work out their disagreements over creating a new national intelligence director -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: John's in New York for the convention.

So is a virtual army of cops and agents and gadgets designed to keep things safe. CNN's Jeanne Meserve is on that for us tonight, Jeanne a headline. JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Miles, hundreds and hundreds of demonstrators on bicycles streamed past Madison Square Garden tonight and it's just the beginning. Security will move way up over the weekend.

O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jeanne.

Finally to Florida, two weeks, Hurricane Charley two weeks later, CNN's John Zarrella was out and about looking at the recovery efforts, John the headline from there.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Miles, electricity, water, telephone, all starting to come back on. Businesses are reopening but the tough part still lies ahead finding homes for all the people displaced -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, thank you sir, back to you a little bit later in the show.

Also on the program tonight, it now seems clear it was terrorists that downed those planes in Russia and there's plenty of suspicion it was the work of Chechen rebels.

And, John Kerry on the left coast, the Democratic nominee fills his war chest just as the Grand Old Party finishes hanging the balloons and hammering the stage for the main event at Madison Square Garden, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with a spy story. Like all stories of its type it is fragmentary and incomplete and the unknowns predominate, so there's always the risk of getting ahead of ourselves.

What we know or think we know, however, is serious stuff, allegations of a mole high at the Pentagon spying for an ally and potentially influencing policy involving American interests in the Middle East, not to mention American lives. We've been working the story all evening.

CNN's David Ensor reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): The FBI has evidence there may be a spy for Israel who's been working at high levels in the Pentagon, senior U.S. officials confirm to CNN.

One of the officials says the Israeli mole could have been in a position to influence Bush administration policy towards Iran and Iraq. Sources say the FBI investigation has been going on for many months and that more than one government employee is under investigation.

CBS News, which first reported the story, says the FBI has evidence against the suspect, including wiretaps and photographs. The network said the alleged spy has ties to two senior Bush administration officials, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Fife. The government official says the suspect is an analyst at the Pentagon. An FBI spokesman said the bureau has no comment on the report.

An Israeli Embassy spokesman, reached by CNN, said the report is wrong. "We categorically deny these allegations. They are completely false and outrageous."

Officials are saying that the alleged spy passed classified documents to an American lobbying organization with ties to Israel, which passed them on to the Jewish state.

The group, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee has also issued a statement saying that, "Any allegation of criminal conduct by the organization or its employees is baseless and false." AIPAC went on to say, "We are fully cooperating with the government authorities and will continue to do so."

In fact, sources say, the FBI has interviewed two AIPAC employees in the case. This is not the first time Israel is alleged to have spied on its friend the United States. Former Navy intelligence analyst Jonathan Pollard is serving a life sentence for espionage on Israel's behalf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: Washington insiders note that it's not unusual for friendly governments to have access to certain classified information, so if these allegations are correct, not everyone involved may have thought they were participating in espionage. Still, one U.S. source tonight is calling this case a very serious matter -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And what makes it seem a little bit odd to us, David, is the timing. We have the assumption here that this suspect is still on the loose so to speak?

ENSOR: Well, we don't understand that there have been any arrests or any arrest warrants put out at this point, so I suppose that's right, yes. I think the suspect knows who he or she is, however, and has been contacted by the FBI at this point.

O'BRIEN: Suffice to say that person is being watched. All right. David Ensor in Washington thank you very much.

All this exploded as the White House was working to make another intelligence story the lead. The president today signing orders aimed at shoring up the system as it stands even as others argue in favor of tearing it down and starting over.

Again, here's CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president's actions give the CIA director new authority while the administration and Congress debate just how much power to give a new national intelligence director. Three executive orders signed by Mr. Bush Friday give the CIA director interim say over at least some spending decisions of the National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency and other intelligence operations, call for a new national intelligence center, a clearinghouse for information now gathered by more than a dozen spy agencies and set guidelines for sharing sensitive intelligence among agencies, often at odds because of turf battles and other rivalries. In Miami, Mr. Bush declined to discuss his new steps.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I signed them.

KING: The executive action is an effort by the White House to get out ahead of a heated policy and political debate.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: What he's doing is substantively wise. It's also obviously very politically motivated because it's useful for him to go into next week's convention in New York being able to say that he's done something in the spirit of the 9/11 Commission.

KING: The 9/11 Commission recommends having the Pentagon and the CIA yield significant authority to a new national intelligence chief but there are disagreements within the administration and in Congress over just how powerful that new post should be.

Democrat Jay Rockefeller, Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said the larger question is "will the president rise to the challenge and override turf battles allowing a powerful new national intelligence director?"

The Kerry-Edwards campaign also focused on the broader debate saying the test is whether the president supports "a true national intelligence director with real control over personnel and budgets. Today's actions fall short."

Administration officials concede the executive steps are essentially placeholders while the broader intelligence debate unfolds but they insist these new steps also should improve intelligence gathering and sharing in the short term.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And both Democrats and Republicans say this entire debate over intelligence reform will be topic and priority number one when the Congress comes back into session.

But, Miles, there are so many disagreements over just what to do, how much power to give this new national intelligence director, even one leading Republican saying abolish the CIA, so many disagreements that many believe they will take so long to work out that what the president did today through his executive powers might be the only major changed for quite some time.

O'BRIEN: Well, you have to wonder, John, how the constituents of these folks in the legislature will feel about that. There's a lot of pressure on them right now to do something and in an election year that's a hard thing, isn't it?

KING: Well, it is a hard thing and the pressure is, number one, to create this new national intelligence director and how much authority do you give that person and when you're giving that person authority you're not just giving it to a new person. You have to take it from somewhere else.

That is one of the turf battles and one of the subplots to this as the Congress pressure the administration to accept dramatic changes. The administration says Congress has to streamline how it does business too.

So you have turf battles within the administration, turf battles on Capitol Hill, a lot of pressure in an election year but we shall see. It's a very open question to see exactly what will come through the Congress.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk briefly about the convention. That's why you're in New York, of course. What's the primary goal here for the Republicans? Is there a concerted effort this week to go after those undecideds who will, after all, make the choice?

KING: Undecideds are a very small slice of the electorate but certainly the president would like to appeal to them. He also would like to rally and solidify his support among the Republican base.

The president's main message here in New York will be that he believes perhaps some mistakes in the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq but that he believes in the post-9/11 world and you have the symbolism of New York obviously, he will make the case in the post- 9/11 world that if he has made mistakes they are in the course of trying to defend the American people from terrorists.

And he also will try to make the case, and this could be a tougher sell, that the economy is coming back perhaps slowly but the president does believe it is coming back -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Interesting I note that the president won't be staying overnight in New York City during the convention, why?

KING: He is not. He is trying -- he will give his speech Thursday night and he will go to Pennsylvania, a state that is a dead heat right now. He lost it last time. The president believes if he can win Pennsylvania that that takes John Kerry's math out of the realm of being able to win the presidency.

So he figures he'll get a big national hit by speaking to the country here in New York and try to generate a little more local excitement in the State of Pennsylvania where in a dead heat, Miles, the president's not going to waste a minute.

O'BRIEN: No time to waste. All right. John King in New York, we look forward to your coverage this week and this weekend on your documentary on "CNN PRESENTS: George Bush's Mission."

And it's fair to say that New York City is a city transformed tonight. Local newscasts are offering resident survival tips as the city braces for an influx of outsiders. To say that security is tight doesn't really begin to tell the story.

Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE (voice-over): Fortress Madison Square Garden surrounded by the modern equivalent of moats and dragons.

JAMES KALLSTROM, NY STATE COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: Without question it would be an attractive target. Will they get to that target? I don't think so.

MESERVE: A blimp hovers overhead with high tech surveillance equipment. A truck bristles with communications gear. An SUV is outfitted to detect nuclear and radiological weapons. An armed Coast Guard patrols the rivers. The rail system is tightly secured. And everywhere you look barricades, police and guns.

Just Friday the FAA announced a ban on corporate and private helicopter flights into and out of Manhattan for the duration of the convention. The man in charge of this mammoth effort says it is constantly being revised to take into account the latest intelligence.

A.T. SMITH, U.S. SECRET SERVICE: I can tell you that at the end of each day, after we've readjusted, we have in place what we think is the most adequate and the best plan possible.

MESERVE: Inside Madison Square Garden, Smith says everything has been set up with security in mind but he doesn't want to give us or terrorists the specifics.

SMITH: And I'm sure they're trying to get, you know, to the heart of our operations and so by virtue of that we can't reveal a lot of what we're using.

MESERVE: Demonstrators have already begun their protests and hundreds of thousands are expected. The New York City Police will deploy 10,000 officers each day on top of National Guardsmen, state police, Secret Service and other law enforcement. Though some New Yorkers grumble about the security, many feel it's right where it should be given the symbolism of New York and the convention.

KALLSTROM: We're in a war and I think what we're seeing this week is a reflection of the truth of that statement that we really are, that this is serious.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: Police made a number of arrests tonight after those protesters on bikes went past Madison Square Garden with their pro- environment anti-Bush message. Police say they're ready to make thousands of arrests, if necessary, as the protests grow larger and the convention grows nearer -- Miles, back to you. O'BRIEN: Well, Jeanne, the police in New York have a lot of experience in handling protesters, no doubt about that, but is there some concern they might be too heavy handed and actually make matters worse?

MESERVE: Well, certainly on the side of the protesters there is some concern in that regard. What the police say is that they are ready to allow peaceful protests but, if anybody steps out of line, they can expect to be dealt with very swiftly and arrested.

O'BRIEN: Obviously they are very circumspect there about, you know, what kind of a plan they might have in place. Are there any rumblings as to what the nightmare scenarios might be?

MESERVE: Oh, Miles, I think there are so many scenarios it would be impossible to pick out just a couple. Certainly, a weapon of mass destruction would be something they'd be terrified of, certainly anything happening Thursday night while the president is in town is something they don't want to see. The list is very, very long.

O'BRIEN: Is that part of the reason why the president is perhaps coming in just for the day, do you know, or is that purely politics?

MESERVE: I believe that that's the usual form, Miles, that the president comes in just for that moment when he is handed the nomination and then he leaves town.

O'BRIEN: And I guess it's worth noting for folks the city will press on with other activities, the U.S. Open Tennis Tournament, the Yankees, the Mets, a city that doesn't sleep keeps going, doesn't it?

MESERVE: That's right. It's a very big job for the New York City Police Department; however, they have about 37,000 officers. They claim they'll be able to police the entire city and keep security high right here at Madison Square Garden.

O'BRIEN: It's going to be a big overtime bill, Jeanne, isn't it?

MESERVE: It is.

O'BRIEN: All right. Jeanne Meserve in New York City thank you very much.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, an influential cleric comes home and instantly diffuses the crisis in Najaf. The question now will it last?

And John Kerry talks about limiting personal debt while ensuring his campaign stays in the black all during a West Coast swing.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: In Iraq today the truce hammered out by the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani appears to be holding. Iraqi police now occupy Najaf's Old City where the Imam Ali Mosque is located. Rebel fighters leaving the shrine today, Shiite pilgrims going in.

There remain a lot of questions, however, about where things go from here. The wisdom of letting Muqtada al-Sadr's militia leave scot-free perhaps to fight another day in another place but, for now in Najaf, they're saving the larger questions for that other day.

Here's CNN's John Vause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Najaf, they celebrated an end to the bloodshed and destruction, an end to the standoff which has gripped this country for three weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The city has become stable and we hope that peace and reconstruction can return to this province.

VAUSE: Thousands descended on the Imam Ali Shrine, an emotionally charged pilgrim for some but within just a few hours the mosque was cleared, the doors were locked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are 100 percent in control of the holy cities of Najaf and Kufa. We hope the security situation settles down and gets better in Najaf.

VAUSE: The Iraqi police are in control of the old city but only because the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani says so. He is now calling the shots. He was the one who struck a peace deal with Muqtada al-Sadr and he got it in writing. Al-Sadr agreed to disarm his Mehdi militia but that doesn't mean they've gone away.

SHEIK AHMED SNAYBANI, MUQTADA AL-SADR SPOKESMAN (through translator): The Mehdi Army is not disbanded, as the authorities have wished. Every fighter has gone back to his province and the shrine has been handed back to the care of al-Sistani. Everything is back to normal.

VAUSE: And that could well be the problem. Normal is just what the U.S. and Iraqi interim government was hoping to avoid. Once again, Muqtada al-Sadr walks free. Once again his prestige is intact. He defied the prime minister, stood firm in the face of threats of imminent military action.

In coming home and resolving the crisis, Ayatollah al-Sistani has shown just how weak the interim government really is. This crisis may have passed but the government may have won only breathing room.

(on camera): The last cease-fire in Najaf lasted just six weeks. The only difference now is the very public involvement of the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani. If there is a next time, Muqtada al-Sadr will be openly defying Iraq's most senior Shiite cleric.

John Vause, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Scott Baldauf is the South Asia Bureau Chief for "The Christian Science Monitor." He's been in Baghdad since the beginning of August. He was in Najaf all week, did some great work out there. Scott, good to have you with us.

SCOTT BALDAUF, "THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR": Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Let's start, first of all, with Najaf on the day after. You wrote compellingly about just some of the scenes you saw and the way people reacted to the end of this siege.

BALDAUF: Well, I can tell you that we saw tens of thousands of pilgrims going into the Old City and the Old City that they saw was absolutely destroyed. It was heartrending for a lot of these people who have their businesses there, who have their homes there and who have lost relatives there.

There's equal blame being handed around by these pilgrims, by these residents of the Old City. Many blame the Americans. Many blame Muqtada al-Sadr for launching the fight in the first place from the area of the shrine. They felt that this is an area that is holy and shouldn't have been turned into a military camp.

O'BRIEN: So, does Muqtada al-Sadr and his militia do they walk away from this somewhat diminished as a result?

BALDAUF: I think what we've been hearing is to the contrary. Sadr has, you know, energized his base, those fighters, those young men who make up his fighters all across the south of the Shiite portions of Iraq in cities like Basra, Nasiriya, Kufa, Sadr City.

Here in Baghdad, those areas are as devoted as they were to the cause as they were before this siege and before the end of the siege and they see this as a victory in some ways that they stood up, fought the Americans and were not defeated in the final day.

O'BRIEN: And is there any doubt in your mind that the single most powerful person in Iraq right now is the Grand Ayatollah Sistani?

BALDAUF: Well, everybody seems to revere him among the Shias, even those followers of Muqtada al-Sadr, who see him as a little too quiet, a little too cooperative with the United States, even they recognize his religious authority. Sistani comes out ahead.

The problem here is that Sistani has tended to stay out of politics and in all likelihood he will go back to his religious institution and stay out of politics once again, leaving the ground for somebody like Muqtada al-Sadr.

O'BRIEN: Or, could there be perhaps other ayatollahs with allegiance to Sistani that could take up the political side of things?

BALDAUF: Well, we haven't seen that yet. There are spokesman who make political pronouncements from time to time but it hasn't been consistent. We may see a change.

O'BRIEN: Was this an embarrassment to the government of Prime Minister Allawi, do you think?

BALDAUF: Well, in some ways it could be seen that way. I mean remember the Allawi government sent a delegation to negotiate with Muqtada al-Sadr just a week ago and Muqtada al-Sadr would not meet with them.

He ended up accepting some of their proposals but he would not meet with them and the peace process crumbled. It was only with Sistani coming in that we saw a change and that was just because he recognized Sistani as his supreme religious leader.

O'BRIEN: So, what are the long term implications, though, assuming Sistani continues with this -- this unrivaled power base that he has? Is it likely that Iraq could evolve into some sort of Iranian theocracy?

BALDAUF: Well, there are some people here who would like to see that, particularly among some Shias, not all Shias but some would like to see something modeled on Khomeini's Iran, the religious revolution there but I would have to say they are probably the minority.

In all likelihood what we will see is a channeling of this anger or frustration into a political movement and, if Sistani does not take up the leadership of that movement, then it's an open question as to who does.

O'BRIEN: Do you have the sense that the end of this siege represents a significant turning point in this fledgling new Iraq?

BALDAUF: I would have to say that the problem is we don't really know how well sustained this will be over the coming weeks. There has been fighting since the truce in Sadr City. Many of the fighters who are not inside Najaf or in Kufa continue to fight and even those who were leaving told us they still will fight until the Americans leave Iraq.

So, for the long term, we're not really seeing that much of a change. There doesn't seem to be a victory here for either the Allawi government or the Americans. Stability is short term. It's welcome but it's not going to be sustained until we can bring Muqtada al-Sadr into a different frame of mind.

O'BRIEN: Scott Baldauf with "The Christian Science Monitor" thanks very much for your time.

BALDAUF: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, attention shifts to Chechnya as suspicions in the case of those Russian downed planes begin to be confirmed.

And hoping to regain paradise lost, one community in Florida uses the setback of Hurricane Charley to push forward. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: In Russia today, the headlines speak in two distinct voices the hard language of cold facts and the soft tones of grieving. The facts point to terrorism in the downing of one, if not both, airliners that crashed just minutes apart on Tuesday. The public grieving began in earnest today, funerals held, the first of dozens.

Eighty-nine in all died in the twin crashes. Both planes taking off from Moscow, both headed south, one bound for Volgograd, the larger one, a Tupolev 154 headed for Sochi. The vanished from radar within moments of each other. Today officials say traces of explosives were found in the wreckage of the 154. Nothing yet on the smaller plane, only suspicions.

Two Chechen women boarded the flights, one on each. Relatives and friends have yet to inquire after either's remains. And, even though the Chechen rebel leader today denied any involvement using female bombers, the so-called Black Widows is a favored tactic by them. Those are the facts we have so far.

With us now Brian Jenkins of the Rand Corporation, always good to see you Mr. Jenkins. Let's try to connect some dots as best we can here. First of all, we can say categorically, I think at this point, one of the planes went down by terrorism. That leads us to a pretty strong conclusion on the second plane, doesn't it?

BRIAN JENKINS, SENIOR ADVISER, RAND CORPORATION: I think that's a reasonable assumption. If one went down as a consequence of terrorism, then the other one certainly did so. The possibility of that going down with a mechanical failure within moments of the other simply is beyond statistics.

O'BRIEN: All right.

Now, of course, Russia has long been dealing with Chechen rebels engaging in terror, often taking it right to Moscow. In this case, just that same pattern here. What is it that the Russians have done or not done to incite this particular event, do you think?

JENKINS: Well, this has been a continuing campaign of terrorist activity directed against Russia by various factions within this Chechen movement.

They have carried out bombings in subways, on trains, at rock concerts, and, of course, carried out a spectacular seizure of hostages at a Moscow theater in 2002. So it's part of an ongoing campaign basically to keep the issue in front of the Russian people. Reminding them, so long as Russia keeps its authority over Chechnya, this type of violence will continue.

O'BRIEN: And over the years, even as Chechen rebels are blamed for blowing up apartments in Moscow, it didn't seem to change people's view of the Russian stance in Chechnya, did it?

JENKINS: No, it hasn't. I think -- of course, we've had two -- basically two wars in Chechnya. We had the one which ended in the '90s and then the second, what is referred to as the second Chechen war began in '99. It has not affected attitudes, despite the great bloodshed in Chechnya itself. And, of course, when we are putting aside the incidents of terrorism which account for hundreds of people in recent years, the casualties in Chechnya are running in the hundreds of thousands.

O'BRIEN: Well, plug this into the global war on terror. What links are there between al Qaeda and these Chechen rebels?

JENKINS: First of all, we have to keep in mind that the Chechen rebels themselves are not a unified group. There are groups within the broader constellation of those fighting for Chechen independence.

Some of them are linked to al Qaeda. At least they share a common jihadist ideology. They have received training in the training camps in Afghanistan, when they still existed. And, indeed, some Chechens are suspected right now of being with some of the remnants of al Qaeda who are being hunted in Pakistan and southern Afghanistan. There are others in the movement who are local warlords who don't much have any kind of ideology, except to keep the fighting going.

But there are clearly links between some. And the United States itself has identified several of the Chechen organizations as terrorist groups.

O'BRIEN: Why has the government of Vladimir Putin been so reluctant to call this what it clearly is, terror?

JENKINS: In this particular case, I think everybody simply is being cautious and wants a complete fact picture or a more complete fact picture before they start reaching conclusions.

In some cases, for a government to prematurely reach conclusions that then subsequently turn out to be incorrect can arouse public anger. We saw that on March 11 of this year when the Spanish government concluded right after the explosions in Madrid, incorrectly, that that had been the work of Basque separatists. It turned out to be linked to the jihadists.

O'BRIEN: Brian Jenkins with RAND Corporation, thanks for your time, as always.

JENKINS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, wisdom meets convention wisdom in the case of John Kerry. And NEWSNIGHT will rely on the wisdom of Jeff Greenfield to try to help explain all of it.

And hit and run for fun, the game that has adults longing for the days of their childhood, the popularity of dodgeball. It's on a roll.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The great Tip O'Neill once said, all politics is local. Well, sometimes, it can also be a contact sport. Outside a Kerry event in Everett, Washington, near Seattle. A man carrying a Kerry/Edwards sign took exception to a man carrying a Bush/Cheney sign, kind of a red state/blue state thing. No Lincoln/Douglas debate here, more like Frazier-Ali. Well, kind of. Not exactly a thrilla in Manila. In this case, nobody went down for the count.

Meantime, the Republican Convention just days away, new analysis by our political unit shows the president narrowly out front in the electoral vote count, ahead by 10 if the election were held today, which, of course, it isn't. Just the same, it gives the president a boost heading into a week which he'll largely have the political stage to himself, leaving Senator Kerry a few more days of hard campaigning before the spotlight shifts to New York.

With that tonight, CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside San Francisco, John Kerry was back on the economy, blasting the Bush administration for a new report showing economic growth for the second quarter was slower than expected.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's slowed down again. It's gone down from the 4.5 percent of the quarter before, down to 2.8 percent. And John Edwards and I believe we should stop downsizing the dreams and possibilities of America and start doing a better job of putting people back to work.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

JOHNS: The new numbers were down sharply from the first-quarter growth figures.

KERRY: Either the president doesn't have a plan or the president is out of touch with what's happening to real Americans. And I think -- you said both.

JOHNS: The Commerce Department blamed a falloff in exports. Economists say higher oil prices and interest rates have also taken money out of consumers' pockets.

ETHAN HARRIS, LEHMAN BROTHERS: This isn't a disastrous economy. This is just an economy that looks a little slower than we'd all like.

JOHNS: The Bush campaign responded that the economy has gained 1.5 million new jobs in the last year, and accused Kerry of conducting a campaign of pessimism, saying Kerry is intent on talking down our economy and ignores the challenges and progress we have made.

Kerry used his speech in the Bay area to demand more consumer protection from credit card companies that charge high interest rates, tougher enforcement of laws requiring fairness in mortgage lending, and new safeguards against abusive lending and insurance products targeted to U.S. military personnel. (on camera): And speaking of money, Kerry's Western swing has been sprinkled with fund-raisers. He raised well over $2.5 million for the party in Santa Monica and is raising millions more here and in Washington state.

Joe Johns, CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: So does the name Charles Farrar Browne ring any bells? No? Well, how about pen name, Artemus Ward? He was a humorist, a contemporary of Mark Twain. But he died young, so we remember Mark Twain more than we remember him, except for this one-liner: "It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us into trouble. It's the things we know that just ain't so." That one got a big laugh from Abe Lincoln.

And when it comes to the conventional political wisdom today, well, ain't it the truth?

Here's our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): Hey, folks, remember all the way back to last week, when we told you about the shaping of the conventional wisdom, that it was John Kerry's race to lose? Remember all the smart political commentary and the polls that showed Kerry with a fat lead in electoral votes?

(on camera): Well, remember, we also told you that this wisdom often has the half-life of an ice sculpture on the Sahara. And now that ancient week-old conventional wisdom is in full meltdown. Meet the new conventional wisdom based on the same shaky assumptions as the old one.

(voice-over): The up-to-this-very-minute insight now is that President Bush is on something of a roll. Maybe it's the swift boat controversy, pushing John Kerry off message. Maybe it's the lack of grim news from Iraq. But the numbers for the president are better than they've been in quite a while. In the new "Los Angeles Times" poll, Bush leads Kerry among registered voters for the first time all year, though the lead is statistically insignificant. He leads among likely voters in the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll by the same small margin, the same margin in fact that he had a couple of weeks ago.

And while other polls show the race tied or even give Kerry a tiny, tiny lead, "The L.A. Times" also shows that in key battleground states, Ohio, Missouri, Wisconsin, Bush now has small leads. Another poll out of Pennsylvania shows the same thing.

Moreover, so the-called internals of many of these polls -- those are specific questions that go beyond the horse race -- show that Kerry has lost ground to Bush on the question of who could best fight terrorism or who would be the most effective commander in chief. And "The Hotline," that daily online site for the politically obsessed, shows that Kerry's electoral lead of last week is gone. It's Bush who now leads.

Moreover, in recent days, newspapers have been filled with uneasy quotes from Kerry's own party, anonymous Democrats who fear that his Vietnam record was now threatening to undermine his candidacy or that the attack ads will reinforce the idea that Kerry is unreliable and untrustworthy.

(on camera): So let's say again what we said last week. These numbers and these assumptions are written in sand. There are new economic numbers out that don't bring good news for the president, slower growth, a weak jobs picture. Most voters think the country is off on the wrong track and would rather have change instead of continuity. And the margins of these poll numbers are incredibly small.

But with the upcoming Republican Convention likely to give the president a boost, the real danger for the Kerry campaign is that his own workers, his supporters may come down with a case of campaign pessimism. And that can turn these shaky assumptions into self- fulfilling prophecy.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, one thing we can say with certainty is, next week at this location, Madison Square Garden, the Grand Old Party will hold its Republican National Convention. And we plan to bring you extensive coverage which actually begins the day before the convention, begins Sunday evening. And we invite you to tune in for complete coverage all throughout the week.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, moving forward after a big, swirling setback named Charley. The people of one community are determined, paradise won't remain lost.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Two weeks ago tonight, we spent a long evening with you following the path of Hurricane Charley, wondering what the morning would bring. Two weeks later, the damage is done, of course, the most serious hurricane since Andrew 12 years ago.

Today in Florida, the president said he wants Congress to approve an additional $2 billion for the recovery effort.

As CNN's John Zarrella reports, there's a lot of recovery still ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: (voice-over): When the clock stopped in Punta Gorda on Friday the 13th, life did not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can definitely get dumpsters. I've already talked to the company. (CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd rather pay for it myself than having my people coming in that way. You cannot let them come in that way, no way.

ZARRELLA: Two weeks after Charley, Carolyn Boseman (ph) is already rebuilding. Monday, she'll reopen. One side of her salon and day spa was completely destroyed. But the other side was hardly touched. It never crossed Boseman's to just walk away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no way. We need to redo this.

ZARRELLA: That attitude is pervasive in Charlotte County. Every day, the word open painted on a piece of plywood pops up in front of another business. The post office is open, drive-through style.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mail box mail?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And what's your P.O. box?

ZARRELLA: It will be three months before the building reopens. Until then, customers with post office boxes can pick up their mail under a tent. For the past week, elections officials have been training poll workers for next Tuesday's primary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it's just a hot day, you're outside.

ZARRELLA: Despite Charley, hundreds of volunteers have shown up, plenty, officials say, to man the precincts. While electricity, water, and telephone are nearly all restored, there are still difficult times ahead. Housing is in short supply. The county is working with FEMA to bring in travel trailers. The first 500 should arrive in a week.

WAYNE SALLADE, CHARLOTTE COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: The idea that we've always told them, that think about this as the world's longest campout, circa 1900. That gets old, too.

ZARRELLA: Sallade says residents will probably choose to pack up and leave for good. It happened to Homestead after Andrew.

SALLADE: I think we're going to see an initial population drop. But they'll come back. This place is paradise.

ZARRELLA: Optimistically, officials say, it will take a year before they can say paradise is regained.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Thirty-one thousand homes were either damaged or destroyed by the storm. And Charlotte County officials say that they may need up to 3,000 travel trailers to accommodate all those who have been left homeless by Charley -- Miles. O'BRIEN: John, what's the biggest frustration right now for folks that are trying to rebuild?

ZARRELLA: Well, the biggest frustration right now is the fact that some places, although electricity is coming back on, still can't take the electricity because of the fact that they're too damaged.

And for city officials, the biggest frustration is that there are still people living in some places that they should not be in. And, in fact, the governor's office told us today they're very concerned about elderly who are still in some of these destroyed mobile homes who are refusing to leave. So there is a very big frustration and concern for that element of this population -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Need to get them to a safe place. John Zarrella in Punta Gorda, thank you very much.

Still to come, dodgeball, not just for kids anymore, a retro game where you are the target, is bouncing back.

That's next on NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: In Athens today, the dream team crashed to earth, the U.S. men's basketball team losing to Argentina 89-81. It's the first time the Americans have failed to win gold in basketball since 1988.

It's been a steep fall for the dream team. Most athletes don't have so far to tumble. Mere mortals who once dreaded gym class have nowhere to go but up, which is the beauty and the joy of our next story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL COSTANZA, FOUNDER, LOS ANGELES DODGEBALL SOCIETY: All right, on the whistle. First team to win five.

My name is Michael Costanza. And I'm the founder of the Los Angeles Dodgeball Society. Our group was founded out of the necessity to have something for guys and girls to do that's just fun, something that's not so sports driven, ultra competitive. You don't have to be the best athlete. It's mainly suited for the average Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dodgeball is great, because you get out here and pretend like you're a kid and just get all your aggressions out.

COSTANZA: A lot of people, probably the last time they played was elementary school. So a lot's happened. If you were the chubby kid who was picked last, maybe you've grown into an Adonis. If you were the goofy kid with glasses, maybe you've had Lasik eye surgery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Childhood memories suck, because you were never picked on a team and you always got out. And it was always a bully-oriented sport. And here's it's a lot more egalitarian. COSTANZA: For a lot of people, it possibly is a chance for redemption, to come back and correct all the traumas or the paradise lost type thing from elementary school.

The group started very modestly. We've gone from eight in the course of the year to over 600 people that are active in the group that come out and play at least one a month. We've grown a pretty eclectic group. We have guys who are the lead singers for punk rock bands, actors, computer programmers. Got quite a few attorneys, teachers, doctors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first day he came out, everybody's like, oh, yes, Hulk Hogan's here. Let's get him.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like getting the president out, like you're really taking some power back for the people.

COSTANZA: Three to one.

I think the idea for a dodgeball group came out of my upbringing. The one thing I remembered about it is, it was something where anybody on the court has the ability to take out the strongest player. So the weakest player isn't completely useless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like, I'm the crappiest player on the planet. I'm awful. But I do a great job of distracting people.

COSTANZA: I have helped start up probably a dozen groups nationwide. And a lot of it kind of ties into the same reasons that we're having fun doing it, because it reminds you of a simpler time where your biggest care in the world was, I've got a science quiz or a spelling bee-type thing. So it definitely helps keep you grounded.

Everybody gets a win.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, we're not out just yet. Back with more in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you're like me, right about now, you're thinking, what am I going to watch on TV on Monday morning? Well, Bill Hemmer has a suggestion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, thanks.

Monday, the Republican National Convention starts here on "AMERICAN MORNING." We'll be there inside Madison Square Garden, guests lined up for the entire week. On Monday, Senator Elizabeth Dole is with us. Ben Stein is with us as well, and many more.

Hope to see you at 7:00 a.m. Eastern time, when our campaign coverage kicks off then. Have a great weekend -- Miles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: And that's it for NEWSNIGHT this week.

For Aaron Brown and the rest of the NEWSNIGHT team, I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you next week.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired August 27, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MILES O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: And, good evening to all of you.
For some time now we have all been walking through a darkened house of mirrors, catching only a glimpse here and there of how the world of espionage, intelligence, shapes and moves our world and, every time we look, we are reminded how little we really know about the things we most need to learn, like about al Qaeda operatives learning to fly or the absence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq or the possibility of another terror attack.

And then we are further reminded the world of spying cuts both ways, the failings of our own intelligence possibly compounded by the secret success of a spy working for an ally. We remember the words of Charles de Gaulle, "Nations don't have friends. They have interests," but tonight we wonder if we were duped in ways that we will never know.

And so the whip begins in Washington, CNN's David Ensor reporting, David the headline from there.

DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Miles, senior administration officials are telling us that the FBI has evidence indicating there may be a high level spy in the Pentagon and here's the surprising part. The spy is allegedly spying on behalf of Israel -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: David Ensor in Washington.

On now to another intelligence story, the one that led the coverage just a few hours ago, changes announced by the president today. John King, our Senior White House Correspondent, working on that, John a headline from you.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Miles, the president signed three executive orders today, among them one giving the CIA interim authority, broader powers in the short term while the president and the Congress try to work out their disagreements over creating a new national intelligence director -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: John's in New York for the convention.

So is a virtual army of cops and agents and gadgets designed to keep things safe. CNN's Jeanne Meserve is on that for us tonight, Jeanne a headline. JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Miles, hundreds and hundreds of demonstrators on bicycles streamed past Madison Square Garden tonight and it's just the beginning. Security will move way up over the weekend.

O'BRIEN: Thank you, Jeanne.

Finally to Florida, two weeks, Hurricane Charley two weeks later, CNN's John Zarrella was out and about looking at the recovery efforts, John the headline from there.

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: Miles, electricity, water, telephone, all starting to come back on. Businesses are reopening but the tough part still lies ahead finding homes for all the people displaced -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: All right, thank you sir, back to you a little bit later in the show.

Also on the program tonight, it now seems clear it was terrorists that downed those planes in Russia and there's plenty of suspicion it was the work of Chechen rebels.

And, John Kerry on the left coast, the Democratic nominee fills his war chest just as the Grand Old Party finishes hanging the balloons and hammering the stage for the main event at Madison Square Garden, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with a spy story. Like all stories of its type it is fragmentary and incomplete and the unknowns predominate, so there's always the risk of getting ahead of ourselves.

What we know or think we know, however, is serious stuff, allegations of a mole high at the Pentagon spying for an ally and potentially influencing policy involving American interests in the Middle East, not to mention American lives. We've been working the story all evening.

CNN's David Ensor reports.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR (voice-over): The FBI has evidence there may be a spy for Israel who's been working at high levels in the Pentagon, senior U.S. officials confirm to CNN.

One of the officials says the Israeli mole could have been in a position to influence Bush administration policy towards Iran and Iraq. Sources say the FBI investigation has been going on for many months and that more than one government employee is under investigation.

CBS News, which first reported the story, says the FBI has evidence against the suspect, including wiretaps and photographs. The network said the alleged spy has ties to two senior Bush administration officials, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz and Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Fife. The government official says the suspect is an analyst at the Pentagon. An FBI spokesman said the bureau has no comment on the report.

An Israeli Embassy spokesman, reached by CNN, said the report is wrong. "We categorically deny these allegations. They are completely false and outrageous."

Officials are saying that the alleged spy passed classified documents to an American lobbying organization with ties to Israel, which passed them on to the Jewish state.

The group, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee has also issued a statement saying that, "Any allegation of criminal conduct by the organization or its employees is baseless and false." AIPAC went on to say, "We are fully cooperating with the government authorities and will continue to do so."

In fact, sources say, the FBI has interviewed two AIPAC employees in the case. This is not the first time Israel is alleged to have spied on its friend the United States. Former Navy intelligence analyst Jonathan Pollard is serving a life sentence for espionage on Israel's behalf.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ENSOR: Washington insiders note that it's not unusual for friendly governments to have access to certain classified information, so if these allegations are correct, not everyone involved may have thought they were participating in espionage. Still, one U.S. source tonight is calling this case a very serious matter -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: And what makes it seem a little bit odd to us, David, is the timing. We have the assumption here that this suspect is still on the loose so to speak?

ENSOR: Well, we don't understand that there have been any arrests or any arrest warrants put out at this point, so I suppose that's right, yes. I think the suspect knows who he or she is, however, and has been contacted by the FBI at this point.

O'BRIEN: Suffice to say that person is being watched. All right. David Ensor in Washington thank you very much.

All this exploded as the White House was working to make another intelligence story the lead. The president today signing orders aimed at shoring up the system as it stands even as others argue in favor of tearing it down and starting over.

Again, here's CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The president's actions give the CIA director new authority while the administration and Congress debate just how much power to give a new national intelligence director. Three executive orders signed by Mr. Bush Friday give the CIA director interim say over at least some spending decisions of the National Security Agency, Defense Intelligence Agency and other intelligence operations, call for a new national intelligence center, a clearinghouse for information now gathered by more than a dozen spy agencies and set guidelines for sharing sensitive intelligence among agencies, often at odds because of turf battles and other rivalries. In Miami, Mr. Bush declined to discuss his new steps.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I signed them.

KING: The executive action is an effort by the White House to get out ahead of a heated policy and political debate.

MICHAEL O'HANLON, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: What he's doing is substantively wise. It's also obviously very politically motivated because it's useful for him to go into next week's convention in New York being able to say that he's done something in the spirit of the 9/11 Commission.

KING: The 9/11 Commission recommends having the Pentagon and the CIA yield significant authority to a new national intelligence chief but there are disagreements within the administration and in Congress over just how powerful that new post should be.

Democrat Jay Rockefeller, Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said the larger question is "will the president rise to the challenge and override turf battles allowing a powerful new national intelligence director?"

The Kerry-Edwards campaign also focused on the broader debate saying the test is whether the president supports "a true national intelligence director with real control over personnel and budgets. Today's actions fall short."

Administration officials concede the executive steps are essentially placeholders while the broader intelligence debate unfolds but they insist these new steps also should improve intelligence gathering and sharing in the short term.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: And both Democrats and Republicans say this entire debate over intelligence reform will be topic and priority number one when the Congress comes back into session.

But, Miles, there are so many disagreements over just what to do, how much power to give this new national intelligence director, even one leading Republican saying abolish the CIA, so many disagreements that many believe they will take so long to work out that what the president did today through his executive powers might be the only major changed for quite some time.

O'BRIEN: Well, you have to wonder, John, how the constituents of these folks in the legislature will feel about that. There's a lot of pressure on them right now to do something and in an election year that's a hard thing, isn't it?

KING: Well, it is a hard thing and the pressure is, number one, to create this new national intelligence director and how much authority do you give that person and when you're giving that person authority you're not just giving it to a new person. You have to take it from somewhere else.

That is one of the turf battles and one of the subplots to this as the Congress pressure the administration to accept dramatic changes. The administration says Congress has to streamline how it does business too.

So you have turf battles within the administration, turf battles on Capitol Hill, a lot of pressure in an election year but we shall see. It's a very open question to see exactly what will come through the Congress.

O'BRIEN: All right. Let's talk briefly about the convention. That's why you're in New York, of course. What's the primary goal here for the Republicans? Is there a concerted effort this week to go after those undecideds who will, after all, make the choice?

KING: Undecideds are a very small slice of the electorate but certainly the president would like to appeal to them. He also would like to rally and solidify his support among the Republican base.

The president's main message here in New York will be that he believes perhaps some mistakes in the war on terrorism and the war in Iraq but that he believes in the post-9/11 world and you have the symbolism of New York obviously, he will make the case in the post- 9/11 world that if he has made mistakes they are in the course of trying to defend the American people from terrorists.

And he also will try to make the case, and this could be a tougher sell, that the economy is coming back perhaps slowly but the president does believe it is coming back -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Interesting I note that the president won't be staying overnight in New York City during the convention, why?

KING: He is not. He is trying -- he will give his speech Thursday night and he will go to Pennsylvania, a state that is a dead heat right now. He lost it last time. The president believes if he can win Pennsylvania that that takes John Kerry's math out of the realm of being able to win the presidency.

So he figures he'll get a big national hit by speaking to the country here in New York and try to generate a little more local excitement in the State of Pennsylvania where in a dead heat, Miles, the president's not going to waste a minute.

O'BRIEN: No time to waste. All right. John King in New York, we look forward to your coverage this week and this weekend on your documentary on "CNN PRESENTS: George Bush's Mission."

And it's fair to say that New York City is a city transformed tonight. Local newscasts are offering resident survival tips as the city braces for an influx of outsiders. To say that security is tight doesn't really begin to tell the story.

Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE (voice-over): Fortress Madison Square Garden surrounded by the modern equivalent of moats and dragons.

JAMES KALLSTROM, NY STATE COUNTERTERRORISM ADVISER: Without question it would be an attractive target. Will they get to that target? I don't think so.

MESERVE: A blimp hovers overhead with high tech surveillance equipment. A truck bristles with communications gear. An SUV is outfitted to detect nuclear and radiological weapons. An armed Coast Guard patrols the rivers. The rail system is tightly secured. And everywhere you look barricades, police and guns.

Just Friday the FAA announced a ban on corporate and private helicopter flights into and out of Manhattan for the duration of the convention. The man in charge of this mammoth effort says it is constantly being revised to take into account the latest intelligence.

A.T. SMITH, U.S. SECRET SERVICE: I can tell you that at the end of each day, after we've readjusted, we have in place what we think is the most adequate and the best plan possible.

MESERVE: Inside Madison Square Garden, Smith says everything has been set up with security in mind but he doesn't want to give us or terrorists the specifics.

SMITH: And I'm sure they're trying to get, you know, to the heart of our operations and so by virtue of that we can't reveal a lot of what we're using.

MESERVE: Demonstrators have already begun their protests and hundreds of thousands are expected. The New York City Police will deploy 10,000 officers each day on top of National Guardsmen, state police, Secret Service and other law enforcement. Though some New Yorkers grumble about the security, many feel it's right where it should be given the symbolism of New York and the convention.

KALLSTROM: We're in a war and I think what we're seeing this week is a reflection of the truth of that statement that we really are, that this is serious.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MESERVE: Police made a number of arrests tonight after those protesters on bikes went past Madison Square Garden with their pro- environment anti-Bush message. Police say they're ready to make thousands of arrests, if necessary, as the protests grow larger and the convention grows nearer -- Miles, back to you. O'BRIEN: Well, Jeanne, the police in New York have a lot of experience in handling protesters, no doubt about that, but is there some concern they might be too heavy handed and actually make matters worse?

MESERVE: Well, certainly on the side of the protesters there is some concern in that regard. What the police say is that they are ready to allow peaceful protests but, if anybody steps out of line, they can expect to be dealt with very swiftly and arrested.

O'BRIEN: Obviously they are very circumspect there about, you know, what kind of a plan they might have in place. Are there any rumblings as to what the nightmare scenarios might be?

MESERVE: Oh, Miles, I think there are so many scenarios it would be impossible to pick out just a couple. Certainly, a weapon of mass destruction would be something they'd be terrified of, certainly anything happening Thursday night while the president is in town is something they don't want to see. The list is very, very long.

O'BRIEN: Is that part of the reason why the president is perhaps coming in just for the day, do you know, or is that purely politics?

MESERVE: I believe that that's the usual form, Miles, that the president comes in just for that moment when he is handed the nomination and then he leaves town.

O'BRIEN: And I guess it's worth noting for folks the city will press on with other activities, the U.S. Open Tennis Tournament, the Yankees, the Mets, a city that doesn't sleep keeps going, doesn't it?

MESERVE: That's right. It's a very big job for the New York City Police Department; however, they have about 37,000 officers. They claim they'll be able to police the entire city and keep security high right here at Madison Square Garden.

O'BRIEN: It's going to be a big overtime bill, Jeanne, isn't it?

MESERVE: It is.

O'BRIEN: All right. Jeanne Meserve in New York City thank you very much.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, an influential cleric comes home and instantly diffuses the crisis in Najaf. The question now will it last?

And John Kerry talks about limiting personal debt while ensuring his campaign stays in the black all during a West Coast swing.

From the CNN Center in Atlanta this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: In Iraq today the truce hammered out by the Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani appears to be holding. Iraqi police now occupy Najaf's Old City where the Imam Ali Mosque is located. Rebel fighters leaving the shrine today, Shiite pilgrims going in.

There remain a lot of questions, however, about where things go from here. The wisdom of letting Muqtada al-Sadr's militia leave scot-free perhaps to fight another day in another place but, for now in Najaf, they're saving the larger questions for that other day.

Here's CNN's John Vause.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Najaf, they celebrated an end to the bloodshed and destruction, an end to the standoff which has gripped this country for three weeks.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The city has become stable and we hope that peace and reconstruction can return to this province.

VAUSE: Thousands descended on the Imam Ali Shrine, an emotionally charged pilgrim for some but within just a few hours the mosque was cleared, the doors were locked.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are 100 percent in control of the holy cities of Najaf and Kufa. We hope the security situation settles down and gets better in Najaf.

VAUSE: The Iraqi police are in control of the old city but only because the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani says so. He is now calling the shots. He was the one who struck a peace deal with Muqtada al-Sadr and he got it in writing. Al-Sadr agreed to disarm his Mehdi militia but that doesn't mean they've gone away.

SHEIK AHMED SNAYBANI, MUQTADA AL-SADR SPOKESMAN (through translator): The Mehdi Army is not disbanded, as the authorities have wished. Every fighter has gone back to his province and the shrine has been handed back to the care of al-Sistani. Everything is back to normal.

VAUSE: And that could well be the problem. Normal is just what the U.S. and Iraqi interim government was hoping to avoid. Once again, Muqtada al-Sadr walks free. Once again his prestige is intact. He defied the prime minister, stood firm in the face of threats of imminent military action.

In coming home and resolving the crisis, Ayatollah al-Sistani has shown just how weak the interim government really is. This crisis may have passed but the government may have won only breathing room.

(on camera): The last cease-fire in Najaf lasted just six weeks. The only difference now is the very public involvement of the Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani. If there is a next time, Muqtada al-Sadr will be openly defying Iraq's most senior Shiite cleric.

John Vause, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Scott Baldauf is the South Asia Bureau Chief for "The Christian Science Monitor." He's been in Baghdad since the beginning of August. He was in Najaf all week, did some great work out there. Scott, good to have you with us.

SCOTT BALDAUF, "THE CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR": Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Let's start, first of all, with Najaf on the day after. You wrote compellingly about just some of the scenes you saw and the way people reacted to the end of this siege.

BALDAUF: Well, I can tell you that we saw tens of thousands of pilgrims going into the Old City and the Old City that they saw was absolutely destroyed. It was heartrending for a lot of these people who have their businesses there, who have their homes there and who have lost relatives there.

There's equal blame being handed around by these pilgrims, by these residents of the Old City. Many blame the Americans. Many blame Muqtada al-Sadr for launching the fight in the first place from the area of the shrine. They felt that this is an area that is holy and shouldn't have been turned into a military camp.

O'BRIEN: So, does Muqtada al-Sadr and his militia do they walk away from this somewhat diminished as a result?

BALDAUF: I think what we've been hearing is to the contrary. Sadr has, you know, energized his base, those fighters, those young men who make up his fighters all across the south of the Shiite portions of Iraq in cities like Basra, Nasiriya, Kufa, Sadr City.

Here in Baghdad, those areas are as devoted as they were to the cause as they were before this siege and before the end of the siege and they see this as a victory in some ways that they stood up, fought the Americans and were not defeated in the final day.

O'BRIEN: And is there any doubt in your mind that the single most powerful person in Iraq right now is the Grand Ayatollah Sistani?

BALDAUF: Well, everybody seems to revere him among the Shias, even those followers of Muqtada al-Sadr, who see him as a little too quiet, a little too cooperative with the United States, even they recognize his religious authority. Sistani comes out ahead.

The problem here is that Sistani has tended to stay out of politics and in all likelihood he will go back to his religious institution and stay out of politics once again, leaving the ground for somebody like Muqtada al-Sadr.

O'BRIEN: Or, could there be perhaps other ayatollahs with allegiance to Sistani that could take up the political side of things?

BALDAUF: Well, we haven't seen that yet. There are spokesman who make political pronouncements from time to time but it hasn't been consistent. We may see a change.

O'BRIEN: Was this an embarrassment to the government of Prime Minister Allawi, do you think?

BALDAUF: Well, in some ways it could be seen that way. I mean remember the Allawi government sent a delegation to negotiate with Muqtada al-Sadr just a week ago and Muqtada al-Sadr would not meet with them.

He ended up accepting some of their proposals but he would not meet with them and the peace process crumbled. It was only with Sistani coming in that we saw a change and that was just because he recognized Sistani as his supreme religious leader.

O'BRIEN: So, what are the long term implications, though, assuming Sistani continues with this -- this unrivaled power base that he has? Is it likely that Iraq could evolve into some sort of Iranian theocracy?

BALDAUF: Well, there are some people here who would like to see that, particularly among some Shias, not all Shias but some would like to see something modeled on Khomeini's Iran, the religious revolution there but I would have to say they are probably the minority.

In all likelihood what we will see is a channeling of this anger or frustration into a political movement and, if Sistani does not take up the leadership of that movement, then it's an open question as to who does.

O'BRIEN: Do you have the sense that the end of this siege represents a significant turning point in this fledgling new Iraq?

BALDAUF: I would have to say that the problem is we don't really know how well sustained this will be over the coming weeks. There has been fighting since the truce in Sadr City. Many of the fighters who are not inside Najaf or in Kufa continue to fight and even those who were leaving told us they still will fight until the Americans leave Iraq.

So, for the long term, we're not really seeing that much of a change. There doesn't seem to be a victory here for either the Allawi government or the Americans. Stability is short term. It's welcome but it's not going to be sustained until we can bring Muqtada al-Sadr into a different frame of mind.

O'BRIEN: Scott Baldauf with "The Christian Science Monitor" thanks very much for your time.

BALDAUF: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT, attention shifts to Chechnya as suspicions in the case of those Russian downed planes begin to be confirmed.

And hoping to regain paradise lost, one community in Florida uses the setback of Hurricane Charley to push forward. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: In Russia today, the headlines speak in two distinct voices the hard language of cold facts and the soft tones of grieving. The facts point to terrorism in the downing of one, if not both, airliners that crashed just minutes apart on Tuesday. The public grieving began in earnest today, funerals held, the first of dozens.

Eighty-nine in all died in the twin crashes. Both planes taking off from Moscow, both headed south, one bound for Volgograd, the larger one, a Tupolev 154 headed for Sochi. The vanished from radar within moments of each other. Today officials say traces of explosives were found in the wreckage of the 154. Nothing yet on the smaller plane, only suspicions.

Two Chechen women boarded the flights, one on each. Relatives and friends have yet to inquire after either's remains. And, even though the Chechen rebel leader today denied any involvement using female bombers, the so-called Black Widows is a favored tactic by them. Those are the facts we have so far.

With us now Brian Jenkins of the Rand Corporation, always good to see you Mr. Jenkins. Let's try to connect some dots as best we can here. First of all, we can say categorically, I think at this point, one of the planes went down by terrorism. That leads us to a pretty strong conclusion on the second plane, doesn't it?

BRIAN JENKINS, SENIOR ADVISER, RAND CORPORATION: I think that's a reasonable assumption. If one went down as a consequence of terrorism, then the other one certainly did so. The possibility of that going down with a mechanical failure within moments of the other simply is beyond statistics.

O'BRIEN: All right.

Now, of course, Russia has long been dealing with Chechen rebels engaging in terror, often taking it right to Moscow. In this case, just that same pattern here. What is it that the Russians have done or not done to incite this particular event, do you think?

JENKINS: Well, this has been a continuing campaign of terrorist activity directed against Russia by various factions within this Chechen movement.

They have carried out bombings in subways, on trains, at rock concerts, and, of course, carried out a spectacular seizure of hostages at a Moscow theater in 2002. So it's part of an ongoing campaign basically to keep the issue in front of the Russian people. Reminding them, so long as Russia keeps its authority over Chechnya, this type of violence will continue.

O'BRIEN: And over the years, even as Chechen rebels are blamed for blowing up apartments in Moscow, it didn't seem to change people's view of the Russian stance in Chechnya, did it?

JENKINS: No, it hasn't. I think -- of course, we've had two -- basically two wars in Chechnya. We had the one which ended in the '90s and then the second, what is referred to as the second Chechen war began in '99. It has not affected attitudes, despite the great bloodshed in Chechnya itself. And, of course, when we are putting aside the incidents of terrorism which account for hundreds of people in recent years, the casualties in Chechnya are running in the hundreds of thousands.

O'BRIEN: Well, plug this into the global war on terror. What links are there between al Qaeda and these Chechen rebels?

JENKINS: First of all, we have to keep in mind that the Chechen rebels themselves are not a unified group. There are groups within the broader constellation of those fighting for Chechen independence.

Some of them are linked to al Qaeda. At least they share a common jihadist ideology. They have received training in the training camps in Afghanistan, when they still existed. And, indeed, some Chechens are suspected right now of being with some of the remnants of al Qaeda who are being hunted in Pakistan and southern Afghanistan. There are others in the movement who are local warlords who don't much have any kind of ideology, except to keep the fighting going.

But there are clearly links between some. And the United States itself has identified several of the Chechen organizations as terrorist groups.

O'BRIEN: Why has the government of Vladimir Putin been so reluctant to call this what it clearly is, terror?

JENKINS: In this particular case, I think everybody simply is being cautious and wants a complete fact picture or a more complete fact picture before they start reaching conclusions.

In some cases, for a government to prematurely reach conclusions that then subsequently turn out to be incorrect can arouse public anger. We saw that on March 11 of this year when the Spanish government concluded right after the explosions in Madrid, incorrectly, that that had been the work of Basque separatists. It turned out to be linked to the jihadists.

O'BRIEN: Brian Jenkins with RAND Corporation, thanks for your time, as always.

JENKINS: Thank you.

O'BRIEN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, wisdom meets convention wisdom in the case of John Kerry. And NEWSNIGHT will rely on the wisdom of Jeff Greenfield to try to help explain all of it.

And hit and run for fun, the game that has adults longing for the days of their childhood, the popularity of dodgeball. It's on a roll.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The great Tip O'Neill once said, all politics is local. Well, sometimes, it can also be a contact sport. Outside a Kerry event in Everett, Washington, near Seattle. A man carrying a Kerry/Edwards sign took exception to a man carrying a Bush/Cheney sign, kind of a red state/blue state thing. No Lincoln/Douglas debate here, more like Frazier-Ali. Well, kind of. Not exactly a thrilla in Manila. In this case, nobody went down for the count.

Meantime, the Republican Convention just days away, new analysis by our political unit shows the president narrowly out front in the electoral vote count, ahead by 10 if the election were held today, which, of course, it isn't. Just the same, it gives the president a boost heading into a week which he'll largely have the political stage to himself, leaving Senator Kerry a few more days of hard campaigning before the spotlight shifts to New York.

With that tonight, CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CAPITOL HILL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside San Francisco, John Kerry was back on the economy, blasting the Bush administration for a new report showing economic growth for the second quarter was slower than expected.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It's slowed down again. It's gone down from the 4.5 percent of the quarter before, down to 2.8 percent. And John Edwards and I believe we should stop downsizing the dreams and possibilities of America and start doing a better job of putting people back to work.

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

JOHNS: The new numbers were down sharply from the first-quarter growth figures.

KERRY: Either the president doesn't have a plan or the president is out of touch with what's happening to real Americans. And I think -- you said both.

JOHNS: The Commerce Department blamed a falloff in exports. Economists say higher oil prices and interest rates have also taken money out of consumers' pockets.

ETHAN HARRIS, LEHMAN BROTHERS: This isn't a disastrous economy. This is just an economy that looks a little slower than we'd all like.

JOHNS: The Bush campaign responded that the economy has gained 1.5 million new jobs in the last year, and accused Kerry of conducting a campaign of pessimism, saying Kerry is intent on talking down our economy and ignores the challenges and progress we have made.

Kerry used his speech in the Bay area to demand more consumer protection from credit card companies that charge high interest rates, tougher enforcement of laws requiring fairness in mortgage lending, and new safeguards against abusive lending and insurance products targeted to U.S. military personnel. (on camera): And speaking of money, Kerry's Western swing has been sprinkled with fund-raisers. He raised well over $2.5 million for the party in Santa Monica and is raising millions more here and in Washington state.

Joe Johns, CNN, San Francisco.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: So does the name Charles Farrar Browne ring any bells? No? Well, how about pen name, Artemus Ward? He was a humorist, a contemporary of Mark Twain. But he died young, so we remember Mark Twain more than we remember him, except for this one-liner: "It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us into trouble. It's the things we know that just ain't so." That one got a big laugh from Abe Lincoln.

And when it comes to the conventional political wisdom today, well, ain't it the truth?

Here's our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): Hey, folks, remember all the way back to last week, when we told you about the shaping of the conventional wisdom, that it was John Kerry's race to lose? Remember all the smart political commentary and the polls that showed Kerry with a fat lead in electoral votes?

(on camera): Well, remember, we also told you that this wisdom often has the half-life of an ice sculpture on the Sahara. And now that ancient week-old conventional wisdom is in full meltdown. Meet the new conventional wisdom based on the same shaky assumptions as the old one.

(voice-over): The up-to-this-very-minute insight now is that President Bush is on something of a roll. Maybe it's the swift boat controversy, pushing John Kerry off message. Maybe it's the lack of grim news from Iraq. But the numbers for the president are better than they've been in quite a while. In the new "Los Angeles Times" poll, Bush leads Kerry among registered voters for the first time all year, though the lead is statistically insignificant. He leads among likely voters in the CNN/"USA Today"/Gallup poll by the same small margin, the same margin in fact that he had a couple of weeks ago.

And while other polls show the race tied or even give Kerry a tiny, tiny lead, "The L.A. Times" also shows that in key battleground states, Ohio, Missouri, Wisconsin, Bush now has small leads. Another poll out of Pennsylvania shows the same thing.

Moreover, so the-called internals of many of these polls -- those are specific questions that go beyond the horse race -- show that Kerry has lost ground to Bush on the question of who could best fight terrorism or who would be the most effective commander in chief. And "The Hotline," that daily online site for the politically obsessed, shows that Kerry's electoral lead of last week is gone. It's Bush who now leads.

Moreover, in recent days, newspapers have been filled with uneasy quotes from Kerry's own party, anonymous Democrats who fear that his Vietnam record was now threatening to undermine his candidacy or that the attack ads will reinforce the idea that Kerry is unreliable and untrustworthy.

(on camera): So let's say again what we said last week. These numbers and these assumptions are written in sand. There are new economic numbers out that don't bring good news for the president, slower growth, a weak jobs picture. Most voters think the country is off on the wrong track and would rather have change instead of continuity. And the margins of these poll numbers are incredibly small.

But with the upcoming Republican Convention likely to give the president a boost, the real danger for the Kerry campaign is that his own workers, his supporters may come down with a case of campaign pessimism. And that can turn these shaky assumptions into self- fulfilling prophecy.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, one thing we can say with certainty is, next week at this location, Madison Square Garden, the Grand Old Party will hold its Republican National Convention. And we plan to bring you extensive coverage which actually begins the day before the convention, begins Sunday evening. And we invite you to tune in for complete coverage all throughout the week.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, moving forward after a big, swirling setback named Charley. The people of one community are determined, paradise won't remain lost.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Two weeks ago tonight, we spent a long evening with you following the path of Hurricane Charley, wondering what the morning would bring. Two weeks later, the damage is done, of course, the most serious hurricane since Andrew 12 years ago.

Today in Florida, the president said he wants Congress to approve an additional $2 billion for the recovery effort.

As CNN's John Zarrella reports, there's a lot of recovery still ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF: (voice-over): When the clock stopped in Punta Gorda on Friday the 13th, life did not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can definitely get dumpsters. I've already talked to the company. (CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'd rather pay for it myself than having my people coming in that way. You cannot let them come in that way, no way.

ZARRELLA: Two weeks after Charley, Carolyn Boseman (ph) is already rebuilding. Monday, she'll reopen. One side of her salon and day spa was completely destroyed. But the other side was hardly touched. It never crossed Boseman's to just walk away.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, no way. We need to redo this.

ZARRELLA: That attitude is pervasive in Charlotte County. Every day, the word open painted on a piece of plywood pops up in front of another business. The post office is open, drive-through style.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mail box mail?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. And what's your P.O. box?

ZARRELLA: It will be three months before the building reopens. Until then, customers with post office boxes can pick up their mail under a tent. For the past week, elections officials have been training poll workers for next Tuesday's primary.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If it's just a hot day, you're outside.

ZARRELLA: Despite Charley, hundreds of volunteers have shown up, plenty, officials say, to man the precincts. While electricity, water, and telephone are nearly all restored, there are still difficult times ahead. Housing is in short supply. The county is working with FEMA to bring in travel trailers. The first 500 should arrive in a week.

WAYNE SALLADE, CHARLOTTE COUNTY EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT: The idea that we've always told them, that think about this as the world's longest campout, circa 1900. That gets old, too.

ZARRELLA: Sallade says residents will probably choose to pack up and leave for good. It happened to Homestead after Andrew.

SALLADE: I think we're going to see an initial population drop. But they'll come back. This place is paradise.

ZARRELLA: Optimistically, officials say, it will take a year before they can say paradise is regained.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZARRELLA: Thirty-one thousand homes were either damaged or destroyed by the storm. And Charlotte County officials say that they may need up to 3,000 travel trailers to accommodate all those who have been left homeless by Charley -- Miles. O'BRIEN: John, what's the biggest frustration right now for folks that are trying to rebuild?

ZARRELLA: Well, the biggest frustration right now is the fact that some places, although electricity is coming back on, still can't take the electricity because of the fact that they're too damaged.

And for city officials, the biggest frustration is that there are still people living in some places that they should not be in. And, in fact, the governor's office told us today they're very concerned about elderly who are still in some of these destroyed mobile homes who are refusing to leave. So there is a very big frustration and concern for that element of this population -- Miles.

O'BRIEN: Need to get them to a safe place. John Zarrella in Punta Gorda, thank you very much.

Still to come, dodgeball, not just for kids anymore, a retro game where you are the target, is bouncing back.

That's next on NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: In Athens today, the dream team crashed to earth, the U.S. men's basketball team losing to Argentina 89-81. It's the first time the Americans have failed to win gold in basketball since 1988.

It's been a steep fall for the dream team. Most athletes don't have so far to tumble. Mere mortals who once dreaded gym class have nowhere to go but up, which is the beauty and the joy of our next story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL COSTANZA, FOUNDER, LOS ANGELES DODGEBALL SOCIETY: All right, on the whistle. First team to win five.

My name is Michael Costanza. And I'm the founder of the Los Angeles Dodgeball Society. Our group was founded out of the necessity to have something for guys and girls to do that's just fun, something that's not so sports driven, ultra competitive. You don't have to be the best athlete. It's mainly suited for the average Joe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dodgeball is great, because you get out here and pretend like you're a kid and just get all your aggressions out.

COSTANZA: A lot of people, probably the last time they played was elementary school. So a lot's happened. If you were the chubby kid who was picked last, maybe you've grown into an Adonis. If you were the goofy kid with glasses, maybe you've had Lasik eye surgery.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Childhood memories suck, because you were never picked on a team and you always got out. And it was always a bully-oriented sport. And here's it's a lot more egalitarian. COSTANZA: For a lot of people, it possibly is a chance for redemption, to come back and correct all the traumas or the paradise lost type thing from elementary school.

The group started very modestly. We've gone from eight in the course of the year to over 600 people that are active in the group that come out and play at least one a month. We've grown a pretty eclectic group. We have guys who are the lead singers for punk rock bands, actors, computer programmers. Got quite a few attorneys, teachers, doctors.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The first day he came out, everybody's like, oh, yes, Hulk Hogan's here. Let's get him.

(LAUGHTER)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's like getting the president out, like you're really taking some power back for the people.

COSTANZA: Three to one.

I think the idea for a dodgeball group came out of my upbringing. The one thing I remembered about it is, it was something where anybody on the court has the ability to take out the strongest player. So the weakest player isn't completely useless.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like, I'm the crappiest player on the planet. I'm awful. But I do a great job of distracting people.

COSTANZA: I have helped start up probably a dozen groups nationwide. And a lot of it kind of ties into the same reasons that we're having fun doing it, because it reminds you of a simpler time where your biggest care in the world was, I've got a science quiz or a spelling bee-type thing. So it definitely helps keep you grounded.

Everybody gets a win.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, we're not out just yet. Back with more in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Well, if you're like me, right about now, you're thinking, what am I going to watch on TV on Monday morning? Well, Bill Hemmer has a suggestion.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL HEMMER, CNN ANCHOR: Miles, thanks.

Monday, the Republican National Convention starts here on "AMERICAN MORNING." We'll be there inside Madison Square Garden, guests lined up for the entire week. On Monday, Senator Elizabeth Dole is with us. Ben Stein is with us as well, and many more.

Hope to see you at 7:00 a.m. Eastern time, when our campaign coverage kicks off then. Have a great weekend -- Miles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: And that's it for NEWSNIGHT this week.

For Aaron Brown and the rest of the NEWSNIGHT team, I'm Miles O'Brien. Thanks for being with us. We'll see you next week.

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