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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Coverage of Republican National Convention
Aired August 30, 2004 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And so there he is. Two powerful speeches tonight from John McCain and from Rudy Giuliani in between a memorial, a memorial for those 9/11 victims, their family members speaking out.
Right now, they're going to continue with some music, Judy, but this speech that Rudy Giuliani delivered tonight certainly electrified this crowd.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: It did. They're both good speeches, strong speeches, but, Wolf, I think Giuliani did do more for electrifying this crowd. It was a very effective speech. I think it went on a little too long, but it was effective. He invoked 9/11 very well. I think he did the president a favor.
But he also zinged John Kerry. He went after him. He said this isn't personal. He talked about how Democrats can disagree with us, but then he went after him point after point on changing his position. And, at one point, I thought it hovered into moving to the territory of character criticism because he said when he was thinking about running for president, he voted one way and later he changed his view.
So some damage done, and I think that you're going to be hearing from the Democrats.
BLITZER: You certainly will.
And, Jeff, I don't think that the president or the vice president could have wanted anything more glowing than either from Giuliani or McCain.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This was clearly a one-two punch. The essence of the McCain speech is contained in a line where he says, "There's a big idea we're all united on, defending our freedom. All other responsibilities come second, and we must not lose sight of that." What he was saying in that was those of you who disagree with the president on the economically, on social issues, you've got to focus on terrorism.
And, yes, this convention clearly feels more comfortable in directly going after their opponent than the Democrats did who had a relatively sanitized convention, and I must say I think there's something about a New Yorker that qualifies a New Yorker to be a little more zinging. The way that Giuliani described him is the way New Yorkers talk. It was a more in-your-face challenge. He was very careful to say it was a challenge on how he voted and where he stood rather than personal, but, yes, they are trying to say this is the most important issue, and John Kerry is not up to it.
WOODRUFF: But McCain made a very effective argument, as Jeff said. I think he very effectively went at the argument of people out there who say this was not a necessary war. John McCain explained why he believes it's necessary. Perhaps he won over some independent, persuadable voters out there who are trying to decide what to do.
BLITZER: It was all Iraq. It was all the war on terrorism. There was nothing on domestic policy issues, no economic issues, tax cuts we heard from McCain or from Giuliani.
Let's go down to the podium right now. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King is there.
John, I take it the Democrats are already getting some reaction.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Democrats were reacting, Wolf, even as Rudy Giuliani was delivering his speech. They're seizing, of course, on this comment by the president in an interview that the NBC network aired earlier today in which the president was asked when would we win the war on terrorism, and he said I don't know that we can win it.
Now the White House says the president simply meant there would not be a formal peace treaty or a surrender with a terrorist group like al Qaeda because it's such an unconventional war. The Democrats have been seizing on that all day, and, when Rudy Giuliani skipped part of a prepared line in his speech, they quickly rushed out a press release saying he had dropped the line in his speech because he did not want to appear to be contradicting the president.
Here is what Rudy Giuliani said in his speech: "So long as George Bush is president, is there any doubt they will continue to hear from us," meaning the terrorists. In the prepared remarks, he said, "Is there any doubt that they will continue to hear from us until we defeat global terrorism?"
Now the Democrats say Rudy Giuliani stopped and edited that line because he did not want to contradict the president, in their view. I suspect the mayor will say -- the former mayor -- that it was simply a clause and he stopped because, at the close of his speech, he certainly on several occasions said he was convinced that if President Bush was reelected, the war on terrorism will ultimately get to a victory.
Rudy Giuliani even saying he could see the end of global terrorism if the American people continue to have resolve and continue to have faith, but the Democrats reacting to every word at this convention, much as the Republicans reacted to every word at the Democratic Convention, and, of course, the Democrats trying to convince the American people you might like John McCain, you might like Rudy Giuliani, don't listen to them right now, they're being partisan.
BLITZER: All right. I'm going to ask everybody to stand by. John King, stand by. Judy and Jeff, all of our correspondents on the floor, our analysts.
We're going to take a quick break. Much more coverage of the Republican National Convention from Madison Square Garden when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: And so this is the first night of the Republican National Convention here at Madison Square Garden. It's drawing to an end, but the analysis, the reporting only just beginning.
A special edition of "NEWSNIGHT" with Aaron Brown is coming up right now. Aaron standing by here in New York -- Aaron.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Good evening again, everyone.
The opening night at the convention is in the books. The nominating process literally is underway, delegates casting their votes, the platform, a conservative one certainly on social issues, from a conservative party has been adopted, and a fair amount to talk about as well over the next half-hour or 33 minutes or so.
"LARRY KING LIVE" coming up at midnight Eastern Time.
Our Senior White House Correspondent John King starts us off.
John, just as we review parts of the night here, talk about John McCain for a minute. The McCain speech, among other things, did something important for the president, which was linking the broader war on terrorism to the war in Iraq.
KING: Exactly the point, Aaron. Rudy Giuliani dealt with 9/11. John McCain dealt mostly with Iraq, trying to convince the American people, as the president says, that the war in Iraq is controversial.
Perhaps you do not agree with some of the president's decisions, and, yes, some mistakes have been made, but John McCain saying it is a critical, imperative part of the broader war on terrorism and commending, in using his words, President Bush, saying he deserves four more years to continue the war in Iraq and the broader war on terrorism.
Senator McCain said -- told the Republicans he would not come here and personally criticize John Kerry, but he did refer to the Democratic case saying that the decision President Bush faced in Iraq was between war and a graver threat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, not our critics abroad and not our political opponents.
One of the biggest issues for this president right now is can he maintain and improve his credibility, which has been damaged by no weapons of mass destruction found, the continuing insurgency in Iraq.
John McCain, a man even Senator Kerry has said is a respected, credible voice on national security matters today coming in here, speaking out strongly to support a man, of course, he had a bitter campaign against four years ago.
The Bush campaign believes it is a critical, essential argument, and they're grateful for that support tonight -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
Candy, if McCain delivered -- Candy Crowley, if McCain delivered a kind of genteel in McCain's way speech, Rudy Giuliani was very in- your-face. He threw the red meat out on the floor.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It was a very New York kind of speech. I mean, you felt a little bit like you might be at a rotary club. He was very colloquial at times. I mean, he gave some very lofty praises, but then he'd say let me tell you about a little old thing that happened at 9/11.
But it was all very focused on the same kind of things that John McCain focused on with the addition of, look, John Kerry can't stick to a position. He thought this way about the war, and then he changed his mind. Spent a good deal of time on that and had a great of fun with it. I mean, he had the crowd laughing.
It wasn't that sort of, you know, vicious going-at-him attack, and every once in a while, he'd say, listen, you know, these are good people, and they have good ideas, but this is -- right now, this is the time for our ideas, and we need to elect this president.
So he was very much the man that was sent out there, and, you know, remember, this is the man that everyone calls America's mayor. It's going to be awfully tough, although they've already begun to do it, to criticize Rudy Giuliani for talking about 9/11 and for criticizing John Kerry on the war on terror.
BROWN: Personally I always worry when someone says it isn't personal. I generally believe that I'm about to get hit personally with something. Candy, thank you. Jeff, as someone who's written these speeches, just sitting here watching it on television, I had the feeling that May Giuliani tried to cover an awful lot of ground and maybe too much ground in one speech.
GREENFIELD: Yes, I think after the stirring beginning and then the very sharp, pointed criticism of Kerry, we got some of the $100,000 speech that he gives at Rotary Clubs and motivational seminars. These stories were fun, but they did get (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
But one thing we shouldn't overlook about Giuliani's speech, it was also aimed very clearly at the Jewish vote and the pro-Israel vote in America. Some Jews, voters and people felt that John Kerry hadn't ever mentioned that in Boston. He attacked the Nobel Peace prize committee for awarding one to Arafat. He talked about the terrorists going after Israel. He talked about the need to keep Israel strong and that that what Bush was for, and it may be ironic, since Giuliani is obviously an Italian, but as the major of New York, he is used to speaking to a Jewish constituency.
The other thing that I think is really significant is that John McCain's argument was embodied in who he is. He didn't say this exactly, but he is a guy who can say, I disagreed with George Bush on everything from tax cuts to a gay marriage amendment, to campaign finance reform, but this year, the only issue you should be voting on is the war on terror. And that's an argument that I think the Bush people think goes right to those voters in the middle who may think Bush is OK on terror, but I don't like his economic policy. But definitely a one-two punch here, really aimed at the where the Bush people think they have some ground to gain. Aaron.
BROWN: Jeff, thank you. Bill Schneider is here. I'm sure it was last week, but sometimes I forget. Last week, you said -- I asked the question what do the Republicans need to accomplish? And what you said to me is they have to remind the country of the way the country felt, the united sense the country had after 9/11 and I've jotted down all sorts of notes where that came up tonight.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, unity. That was why New York City was chosen for this convention. We saw it literally the backdrop, the beautiful backdrop of the New York skyline. New York was chosen as the convention site when that city was a symbol of the nation's unity in defiance of the terrorists.
Now I think New York has a different symbolism. It really is the symbol of the nation's division. It's the city or much of the city versus President Bush as we saw with the protests on Sunday. What were they -- what they were trying to evoke was the spirit that really lasted about a year after September 11th, 2001, when the country was united, the world was united behind President Bush in the war in Afghanistan. Most Democrats for a solid year supported President Bush. They approved of him.
It wasn't until the Iraq roll out began in September 2002 that all of the old divisions resurfaced. What they were trying to do and McCain mentioned it, Giuliani mentioned it, was talk about the unity of the country and they believe that George Bush, who promised, remember, to be a uniter, not a divider, I think the failure to deliver that promise is his biggest problem in this election. They were trying to say he can still be that uniter.
BROWN: Mr. Schneider, thank you. You've had a patient and long night with us here. Thank you.
There's some quick first impressions. We've got a ways to go yet.
Here now more of how things looked and sounded and played out as the opening night of the Republican National Convention unfolded at the Garden.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 38th Republican National Convention, second session, is hereby called to order.
BROWN (voice-over): A convention theme and the attacks began in a New York minute, from a former New York police chief.
BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: This fight against terrorism takes decisiveness, not contradiction. It takes support for our troops and first responders, not votes against our military, against our intelligence and against our law enforcement spending.
BROWN: The star power came from a former adversary and the famously independent John McCain, supporting a war whose execution he has often criticized.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R) ARIZONA: Our choice wasn't between a benign status quo and the bloodshed of war. It was between war and a graver threat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, not our political opponents, not and certainly not and certainly not a disingenuous filmmaker who would have us believe -- my friends, who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace, when in fact, when in fact, it was a place of indescribable cruelty, torture chambers, mass graves and prisons that destroyed the lives of the small children inside their walls.
BROWN: From former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, memories of 9/11 cast for a political scene.
RUDY GIULIANI, FMR NYC MAYOR: At the time we believed that we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. Without really thinking, based on just emotion, spontaneous I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik and I said to him, Bernie, thank God George Bush is our president. I say it again tonight. Thank God that George Bush is our president.
BROWN: And of course the familiar talking points.
GIULIANI: He even at one point declared himself as the anti-war candidate and now he says he's a pro-war candidate. At this rate, with 64 days left, he still has time to change his position four or five more times.
BROWN: To the former mayor not always in synch with his own party, the marriage of an old Republican hero with the current one.
GIULIANI: ... Ronald Reagan saw and described the Soviet Union as the evil empire while world opinion accepted it as inevitable and even belittled Ronald Reagan's intelligence. President Bush sees world terrorism for the evil that it is. John Kerry has no such clear, precise and consistent vision.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Pretty good synopsis of the Republican message today, which is what these conventions have become. They're an opportunity to get your message out there. There are little bits and drabbles of news out there and part of the news of this concerns a band aid that's being passed among some of the delegates. At the convention, Dan Lothian joins us with the band aid story. Dan, good evening.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening Aaron. This is the band aid. It was put out by Morton Blackwell who is a member of the Virginia delegation. He is not a veteran but he said he distributed some 300 band aids with the Purple Heart in the middle to make a point against Senator Kerry. It was very controversial, denounced by the Democratic Party and also Republican officials. Ed Gillespie tonight, we're getting word now has had a conversation with him, has told him that he should stop distributing these band aids. He's agreed to stop distributing the band aids and he even has removed the one that was wearing. Aaron.
BROWN: Dan, thank you very much. Dan Lothian is over at the Garden.
We're joined now by our roundtable folks from the Garden, John Harwood of the "Wall Street Journal," Terry Neal, the washingtonpost.com and the table's third leg, Nina Easton from the "Boston Globe" joins us from Washington tonight. We're glad to have all of you together, if apart. My guess is something like six or seven million Americans will have watched the convention tonight and the rest of the country will get their perception of what happened from what you all write tomorrow and what the broadcast networks report tomorrow. So Nina, let's start with you. What's the lead you'd write on this tonight?
NINA EASTON, "BOSTON GLOBE": Well, I have to say Aaron, I'm really struck, we talk about the polarized electorate. We talk about these two parties with extremely different world views. We talk about the oppositional culture that's going on in our country and yet, both parties want to project very similar images. They want to project an image of strength, so we saw uniforms on the stage at the Democratic convention. Here we see the big sign courage at home. And they want to project moderation. So tonight in particular, I thought it was really interesting with John McCain. He's almost like a Sunday school teacher preaching the golden rule and things should all good along. We should all stick together at the difficult time. So strength and moderation seem to be the same message of both party organizations.
BROWN: John, we are a nation at war and so a theme of being united, of being strong, of being courageous makes sense no matter what your party.
JOHN HARWOOD, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Sure, absolutely and I think tonight Aaron was about two things. One, for Republicans to rip John Kerry. You saw Rudy Giuliani did that with abandon and also to feel good about themselves. This hasn't been a great year for people who like George W. Bush and for the president and some members of his administration. He's been beaten around a lot because of problems with Iraq and turbulence in the economy and so you saw that in this outpouring of emotion against Michael Moore when John McCain made that reference to him.
You saw it in Dick Cheney getting applause. Dick Cheney doesn't get a lot of applause these days. His poll numbers aren't very good but he's very popular in this hall and Republicans -- the other key phrase by the way was Rudy Giuliani saying time to present the correct view of America for George W. Bush. They saw this as the night where they get to take the stage, begin to present their arguments and they loved it tonight.
BROWN: Terry, I don't think the Republican Party can go an entire week without mentioning the economy, without mentioning health care, without mentioning the range of social issues, but they managed to get through the entire night tonight without talking about any of them.
TERRY NEAL, WASHINGTONPOST.COM: That's right. I mean this night was all about doing one thing. It was sort of about restoring the luster that has really faded from George W. Bush since those days when he stood out here at ground zero with a bullhorn saying that these people who were killed will be remembered and that the deaths will be essentially avenged. What's happened here is that his popularity has eroded obviously among Democrats, who knew that that was probably going to happen anyway. But more a serious problem for him is that it eroded among independents. So what he did was bring out the two Republican politicians who probably have more credibility among independent voters than any other in the party, essentially vouched for him and this was all about national security. This was all about coming back to the place where he really started to resuscitate a stagnating presidency and have the two -- two of the most popular Republican politicians vouch for him.
BROWN: Terry...
EASTON: And you know Terry, even Giuliani's attack on Kerry was very much aimed at swing voters. You could tell. It was about leadership and about questioning the leadership. It was less his stand on issues than his wavering stand on issues and I thought that was quite interesting.
BROWN: Nina, thank you, John, Terry, thank you. We'll talk tomorrow, I suspect for a little longer. The schedule's a little shorter. Good to have you all with us tonight. Thank you.
We'll take a break. We'll come back, talk to Joe Klein of "Time" magazine and the legendary political reporter Jack Germond. This is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Madison Square Garden and we're up here on 58th Street in New York City where the Republicans are convening. We're joined by two veteran political reporters, but in truth, one more veteran than the other. Joe Klein of "Time" magazine joins us from over at the Garden and Jack Germond joins us here in New York. Mr. Germond has just written "Fat Man Fed Up: What Went Wrong With American Politics?" Was today, Mr. Germond, an example of what went wrong with American politics or what is right with American politics or neither?
JACK GERMOND, AUTHOR, "FAT MAN FED UP": Well, it's a little bit of both actually. I mean, I knew Rudy Giuliani before he was a virgin so to speak and he gives this marvelous stem winding speech, but the fact is, this -- all the things they were saying are not necessarily relevant to this campaign, because if they think they can run a campaign solely on whether George Bush behaved well 9/11, they would win, of course. No one's arguing with that. And there are other issues involved, and if Kerry is not a total sloth (ph), he will bring those issues to the floor.
BROWN: Joe, has Kerry to this point failed to bring those issues to the fore?
JOE KLEIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: You know, Aaron, yes I think so. There's a real contrast between the Democratic convention. Remember that, it was so reserved and they were reasonable and they were even on time, and tonight the Republicans, who are usually the reserved, reasonable party, are passionate and idealistic. There's a lot of energy and they run way over and it just -- it's very striking to me, the difference between the two parties on these issues.
BROWN: Well, what does it mean?
KLEIN: What it means is that the president has taken a very strong, uncompromising, stubborn and in many cases unwise stand on the war on terrorism and they, the Republicans, feel that the only way to defend that stand is to be as strong and as uncompromising as he's been. So I think that they are -- it was a major show of strength tonight, but no much nuance and not much detail and you never heard the word Fallujah mentioned tonight.
BROWN: One man's stubbornness Jack, is another man's resolve I would say.
GERMOND: But this is rhetoric. These speeches, a lot of people saw them. McCain has an audience. Giuliani does too. They're both effective speakers. Their speeches, their speeches at the end of August. Now we got 60 days to go. People aren't going to go into the voting booth November 2nd on the basis of these speeches.
BROWN: That was the next thing I was going to ask. Is this just sort, this is like sugar candy that if -- and both conventions are still...
GERMOND: It's ritual.
BROWN: The speech kind of gets you going and but the rush of the speech doesn't last very long.
GERMOND: Does anybody remember the speech George Bush gave four years ago? I don't.
BROWN: Joe, did anything surprise you about what either Senator McCain or Giuliani had to say tonight?
KLEIN: Well, once again it was another contrast. You never heard the kind of directed, passionate attack on George W. Bush at the Democratic convention as you heard Rudy Giuliani make at this convention. It seems that these guys are playing much tougher, much harder and the Democrats -- I mean what Jack says is true about the staying power of rhetoric, but it does have some value and in retrospect, you didn't hear very much stirring stuff coming out of the Democratic party and you have this major issues that's dividing the country, arguably the most important decision that a president has made in a long time, to go to war in Iraq and it was barely addressed by the Democrats. It was clearly addressed by the Republicans tonight and I think that in the end, that's a little bit more effective.
BROWN: Joe, thank you, one last word Jack.
GERMOND: There's a difference between terrorism and the war in Iraq and maybe people will see that.
BROWN: We should get together more than every 36 years which is I think the last time... nice to see you.
Joe, we'll talk again tomorrow. We'll take a break. We'll talk about Herbert to get another slant on all of this. We'll take a break first. We continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: OK, over at the Garden. Senator John McCain, who's one of the principal speakers of the night, is still hanging around and Senator McCain, we're always pleased to see. He joins us for a couple of minutes tonight. Senator, good evening to you. Nicely done tonight. You speak to a country that is as polarized as perhaps any time since the late '60s. Why do you think that is so?
MCCAIN: I'm not sure if it's the Clinton impeachment or the Florida recount or the increased polarization due to redistricting, which gives the majority of Congress safe seats. I'm not sure all the reasons, but it's obvious that the Iraq war has been a catalyst in reopening a lot of wounds, including that of a war that was over 30 years ago.
BROWN: How do we get, if we get, how do we get beyond that? Here, let me throw one more sentence on it. It strikes me that we are at a time in our national life when we don't even want to listen to the other guy.
MCCAIN: I think so. That's why I made the statement in my speech we're Americans first, Americans last and Americans always and they are not our enemies. Our enemy out there is plotting right as we speak a way to hurt and destroy and we're going to have to come next January, try to knit up those wounds.... Good English, that's not good English, mend those fences.
BROWN: It's television. It's close enough for us. You have at various times been critical of the execution of the post war strategy from the administration in Iraq. You certainly have defended from the beginning the decision to go to war. Can you tell me, do you believe there is an exit strategy?
MCCAIN: Sure. The exit strategy is turning the government of Iraq over to the Iraqi people and they are able to govern themselves and that means that the United States will probably be there militarily for a long time.
BROWN: What is a long time?
MCCAIN: That's not so bad -- 10 years, 20 years. We've been in Korea for 50 years. We've been in west Germany for 50 years. We've been in Bosnia for what, 10 -- nine or 10 years. The key to it is not take American casualties and bring about an environment of peace and security and that's going to be very tough.
BROWN: Senator, I know you've only done about 50 interviews today. We appreciate being one of them.
MCCAIN: I'm always happy to be with you.
BROWN: Thank you sir, very much, Senator John McCain.
When the Democrats met in Boston, we would set aside this space to hear the other side. We do the same with the Republicans here in New York. Bob Herbert is one of the liberal voices writing in the "New York Times." Some people would say all the voices in the "Times" are liberal, but that would be incorrect. Mr. Herbert writes (ph) sharply on the op/ed page, joins us. If you were writing the lead tonight, with a point of view, what would you say?
BOB HERBERT, NEW YORK TIMES: I would say that the Republicans came at the Democrats right in your face tonight. I mean they were very confrontational. Senator McCain and Rudy Giuliani gave very strong, passionate speeches and they sort of let it be known that we're -- this is going to be really a tough fight from the beginning to the end. It's not going to be a gentile campaign. And it strikes me that I wonder whether Kerry and Edwards are up for that. They spent a lot of time at the Democratic convention trying to portray how tough they are. But we're going to see now, as the general campaign...
BROWN: It's a street fight.
HERBERT: It really is. It's a brawl and we're going to see now, as the campaign plays out, whether the public thinks they are in fact as tough as they say they are.
BROWN: Do you think either side to this point, two months before we all go to vote, either side has laid out a vision for the country for the next four years.
HERBERT: No, I've actually been complaining about that. I don't think either presidential candidate has laid out a vision, either for the next four years or even beyond, which is what I think presidents should be doing. I think the candidates are not even really dealing seriously with the important issues in this campaign. I mean, even tonight at the Republican convention, you once again saw the blurring of the lines between the war in Iraq and the war against terror. And you know, that's the way they want.
BROWN: Well, it's not a blurring of the lines. There is no line in the Republican -- in the Republican presentation in the way the president has presented the war with Iraq, there is no line between the two.
HERBERT: But when you talk -- they have nearly half a million demonstrators in New York yesterday, protesting the Bush policies and one of the key things so many of the protesters brought up is they were saying, we have this very serious war against terror. Why do we have 160,000 American troops in Iraq? And a lot of the Americans, a lot of the citizens see a very distinct line between the war in Iraq and the war against terror.
BROWN: As a -- you've been writing a lot about voter intimidation lately.
HERBERT: Florida.
BROWN: In Florida. Do you believe that there is an active plot to suppress the -- particularly the black vote in the state of Florida?
HERBERT: I wouldn't use the word plot. I would use the word effort. I think that there is a very strong effort to suppress the black by the Republican Party, to suppress the black vote in Florid. I mean if you talk to politicians in Florida of both parties, if you go off the record, nobody will say this is for the record. They will say blacks votes in Florida are Democratic votes, so part of the strategy in the Republican Party in a state that was so close we saw the last time and may well be that close again. Part of the strategy is to keep down the black vote as much as possible.
BROWN: Good to see you. I hope you'll come back. Thank you.
HERBERT: I'll be glad to.
BROWN: Thank you. Good to see all of you. We'll be back after the convention tomorrow. New edition of "LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up next. Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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Aired August 30, 2004 - 23:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: And so there he is. Two powerful speeches tonight from John McCain and from Rudy Giuliani in between a memorial, a memorial for those 9/11 victims, their family members speaking out.
Right now, they're going to continue with some music, Judy, but this speech that Rudy Giuliani delivered tonight certainly electrified this crowd.
JUDY WOODRUFF, CNN ANCHOR: It did. They're both good speeches, strong speeches, but, Wolf, I think Giuliani did do more for electrifying this crowd. It was a very effective speech. I think it went on a little too long, but it was effective. He invoked 9/11 very well. I think he did the president a favor.
But he also zinged John Kerry. He went after him. He said this isn't personal. He talked about how Democrats can disagree with us, but then he went after him point after point on changing his position. And, at one point, I thought it hovered into moving to the territory of character criticism because he said when he was thinking about running for president, he voted one way and later he changed his view.
So some damage done, and I think that you're going to be hearing from the Democrats.
BLITZER: You certainly will.
And, Jeff, I don't think that the president or the vice president could have wanted anything more glowing than either from Giuliani or McCain.
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: This was clearly a one-two punch. The essence of the McCain speech is contained in a line where he says, "There's a big idea we're all united on, defending our freedom. All other responsibilities come second, and we must not lose sight of that." What he was saying in that was those of you who disagree with the president on the economically, on social issues, you've got to focus on terrorism.
And, yes, this convention clearly feels more comfortable in directly going after their opponent than the Democrats did who had a relatively sanitized convention, and I must say I think there's something about a New Yorker that qualifies a New Yorker to be a little more zinging. The way that Giuliani described him is the way New Yorkers talk. It was a more in-your-face challenge. He was very careful to say it was a challenge on how he voted and where he stood rather than personal, but, yes, they are trying to say this is the most important issue, and John Kerry is not up to it.
WOODRUFF: But McCain made a very effective argument, as Jeff said. I think he very effectively went at the argument of people out there who say this was not a necessary war. John McCain explained why he believes it's necessary. Perhaps he won over some independent, persuadable voters out there who are trying to decide what to do.
BLITZER: It was all Iraq. It was all the war on terrorism. There was nothing on domestic policy issues, no economic issues, tax cuts we heard from McCain or from Giuliani.
Let's go down to the podium right now. Our Senior White House Correspondent John King is there.
John, I take it the Democrats are already getting some reaction.
JOHN KING, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Democrats were reacting, Wolf, even as Rudy Giuliani was delivering his speech. They're seizing, of course, on this comment by the president in an interview that the NBC network aired earlier today in which the president was asked when would we win the war on terrorism, and he said I don't know that we can win it.
Now the White House says the president simply meant there would not be a formal peace treaty or a surrender with a terrorist group like al Qaeda because it's such an unconventional war. The Democrats have been seizing on that all day, and, when Rudy Giuliani skipped part of a prepared line in his speech, they quickly rushed out a press release saying he had dropped the line in his speech because he did not want to appear to be contradicting the president.
Here is what Rudy Giuliani said in his speech: "So long as George Bush is president, is there any doubt they will continue to hear from us," meaning the terrorists. In the prepared remarks, he said, "Is there any doubt that they will continue to hear from us until we defeat global terrorism?"
Now the Democrats say Rudy Giuliani stopped and edited that line because he did not want to contradict the president, in their view. I suspect the mayor will say -- the former mayor -- that it was simply a clause and he stopped because, at the close of his speech, he certainly on several occasions said he was convinced that if President Bush was reelected, the war on terrorism will ultimately get to a victory.
Rudy Giuliani even saying he could see the end of global terrorism if the American people continue to have resolve and continue to have faith, but the Democrats reacting to every word at this convention, much as the Republicans reacted to every word at the Democratic Convention, and, of course, the Democrats trying to convince the American people you might like John McCain, you might like Rudy Giuliani, don't listen to them right now, they're being partisan.
BLITZER: All right. I'm going to ask everybody to stand by. John King, stand by. Judy and Jeff, all of our correspondents on the floor, our analysts.
We're going to take a quick break. Much more coverage of the Republican National Convention from Madison Square Garden when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BLITZER: And so this is the first night of the Republican National Convention here at Madison Square Garden. It's drawing to an end, but the analysis, the reporting only just beginning.
A special edition of "NEWSNIGHT" with Aaron Brown is coming up right now. Aaron standing by here in New York -- Aaron.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Wolf, thank you.
Good evening again, everyone.
The opening night at the convention is in the books. The nominating process literally is underway, delegates casting their votes, the platform, a conservative one certainly on social issues, from a conservative party has been adopted, and a fair amount to talk about as well over the next half-hour or 33 minutes or so.
"LARRY KING LIVE" coming up at midnight Eastern Time.
Our Senior White House Correspondent John King starts us off.
John, just as we review parts of the night here, talk about John McCain for a minute. The McCain speech, among other things, did something important for the president, which was linking the broader war on terrorism to the war in Iraq.
KING: Exactly the point, Aaron. Rudy Giuliani dealt with 9/11. John McCain dealt mostly with Iraq, trying to convince the American people, as the president says, that the war in Iraq is controversial.
Perhaps you do not agree with some of the president's decisions, and, yes, some mistakes have been made, but John McCain saying it is a critical, imperative part of the broader war on terrorism and commending, in using his words, President Bush, saying he deserves four more years to continue the war in Iraq and the broader war on terrorism.
Senator McCain said -- told the Republicans he would not come here and personally criticize John Kerry, but he did refer to the Democratic case saying that the decision President Bush faced in Iraq was between war and a graver threat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, not our critics abroad and not our political opponents.
One of the biggest issues for this president right now is can he maintain and improve his credibility, which has been damaged by no weapons of mass destruction found, the continuing insurgency in Iraq.
John McCain, a man even Senator Kerry has said is a respected, credible voice on national security matters today coming in here, speaking out strongly to support a man, of course, he had a bitter campaign against four years ago.
The Bush campaign believes it is a critical, essential argument, and they're grateful for that support tonight -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you.
Candy, if McCain delivered -- Candy Crowley, if McCain delivered a kind of genteel in McCain's way speech, Rudy Giuliani was very in- your-face. He threw the red meat out on the floor.
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: It was a very New York kind of speech. I mean, you felt a little bit like you might be at a rotary club. He was very colloquial at times. I mean, he gave some very lofty praises, but then he'd say let me tell you about a little old thing that happened at 9/11.
But it was all very focused on the same kind of things that John McCain focused on with the addition of, look, John Kerry can't stick to a position. He thought this way about the war, and then he changed his mind. Spent a good deal of time on that and had a great of fun with it. I mean, he had the crowd laughing.
It wasn't that sort of, you know, vicious going-at-him attack, and every once in a while, he'd say, listen, you know, these are good people, and they have good ideas, but this is -- right now, this is the time for our ideas, and we need to elect this president.
So he was very much the man that was sent out there, and, you know, remember, this is the man that everyone calls America's mayor. It's going to be awfully tough, although they've already begun to do it, to criticize Rudy Giuliani for talking about 9/11 and for criticizing John Kerry on the war on terror.
BROWN: Personally I always worry when someone says it isn't personal. I generally believe that I'm about to get hit personally with something. Candy, thank you. Jeff, as someone who's written these speeches, just sitting here watching it on television, I had the feeling that May Giuliani tried to cover an awful lot of ground and maybe too much ground in one speech.
GREENFIELD: Yes, I think after the stirring beginning and then the very sharp, pointed criticism of Kerry, we got some of the $100,000 speech that he gives at Rotary Clubs and motivational seminars. These stories were fun, but they did get (UNINTELLIGIBLE).
But one thing we shouldn't overlook about Giuliani's speech, it was also aimed very clearly at the Jewish vote and the pro-Israel vote in America. Some Jews, voters and people felt that John Kerry hadn't ever mentioned that in Boston. He attacked the Nobel Peace prize committee for awarding one to Arafat. He talked about the terrorists going after Israel. He talked about the need to keep Israel strong and that that what Bush was for, and it may be ironic, since Giuliani is obviously an Italian, but as the major of New York, he is used to speaking to a Jewish constituency.
The other thing that I think is really significant is that John McCain's argument was embodied in who he is. He didn't say this exactly, but he is a guy who can say, I disagreed with George Bush on everything from tax cuts to a gay marriage amendment, to campaign finance reform, but this year, the only issue you should be voting on is the war on terror. And that's an argument that I think the Bush people think goes right to those voters in the middle who may think Bush is OK on terror, but I don't like his economic policy. But definitely a one-two punch here, really aimed at the where the Bush people think they have some ground to gain. Aaron.
BROWN: Jeff, thank you. Bill Schneider is here. I'm sure it was last week, but sometimes I forget. Last week, you said -- I asked the question what do the Republicans need to accomplish? And what you said to me is they have to remind the country of the way the country felt, the united sense the country had after 9/11 and I've jotted down all sorts of notes where that came up tonight.
WILLIAM SCHNEIDER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, unity. That was why New York City was chosen for this convention. We saw it literally the backdrop, the beautiful backdrop of the New York skyline. New York was chosen as the convention site when that city was a symbol of the nation's unity in defiance of the terrorists.
Now I think New York has a different symbolism. It really is the symbol of the nation's division. It's the city or much of the city versus President Bush as we saw with the protests on Sunday. What were they -- what they were trying to evoke was the spirit that really lasted about a year after September 11th, 2001, when the country was united, the world was united behind President Bush in the war in Afghanistan. Most Democrats for a solid year supported President Bush. They approved of him.
It wasn't until the Iraq roll out began in September 2002 that all of the old divisions resurfaced. What they were trying to do and McCain mentioned it, Giuliani mentioned it, was talk about the unity of the country and they believe that George Bush, who promised, remember, to be a uniter, not a divider, I think the failure to deliver that promise is his biggest problem in this election. They were trying to say he can still be that uniter.
BROWN: Mr. Schneider, thank you. You've had a patient and long night with us here. Thank you.
There's some quick first impressions. We've got a ways to go yet.
Here now more of how things looked and sounded and played out as the opening night of the Republican National Convention unfolded at the Garden.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The 38th Republican National Convention, second session, is hereby called to order.
BROWN (voice-over): A convention theme and the attacks began in a New York minute, from a former New York police chief.
BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: This fight against terrorism takes decisiveness, not contradiction. It takes support for our troops and first responders, not votes against our military, against our intelligence and against our law enforcement spending.
BROWN: The star power came from a former adversary and the famously independent John McCain, supporting a war whose execution he has often criticized.
SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R) ARIZONA: Our choice wasn't between a benign status quo and the bloodshed of war. It was between war and a graver threat. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, not our political opponents, not and certainly not and certainly not a disingenuous filmmaker who would have us believe -- my friends, who would have us believe that Saddam's Iraq was an oasis of peace, when in fact, when in fact, it was a place of indescribable cruelty, torture chambers, mass graves and prisons that destroyed the lives of the small children inside their walls.
BROWN: From former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, memories of 9/11 cast for a political scene.
RUDY GIULIANI, FMR NYC MAYOR: At the time we believed that we would be attacked many more times that day and in the days that followed. Without really thinking, based on just emotion, spontaneous I grabbed the arm of then Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik and I said to him, Bernie, thank God George Bush is our president. I say it again tonight. Thank God that George Bush is our president.
BROWN: And of course the familiar talking points.
GIULIANI: He even at one point declared himself as the anti-war candidate and now he says he's a pro-war candidate. At this rate, with 64 days left, he still has time to change his position four or five more times.
BROWN: To the former mayor not always in synch with his own party, the marriage of an old Republican hero with the current one.
GIULIANI: ... Ronald Reagan saw and described the Soviet Union as the evil empire while world opinion accepted it as inevitable and even belittled Ronald Reagan's intelligence. President Bush sees world terrorism for the evil that it is. John Kerry has no such clear, precise and consistent vision.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Pretty good synopsis of the Republican message today, which is what these conventions have become. They're an opportunity to get your message out there. There are little bits and drabbles of news out there and part of the news of this concerns a band aid that's being passed among some of the delegates. At the convention, Dan Lothian joins us with the band aid story. Dan, good evening.
DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening Aaron. This is the band aid. It was put out by Morton Blackwell who is a member of the Virginia delegation. He is not a veteran but he said he distributed some 300 band aids with the Purple Heart in the middle to make a point against Senator Kerry. It was very controversial, denounced by the Democratic Party and also Republican officials. Ed Gillespie tonight, we're getting word now has had a conversation with him, has told him that he should stop distributing these band aids. He's agreed to stop distributing the band aids and he even has removed the one that was wearing. Aaron.
BROWN: Dan, thank you very much. Dan Lothian is over at the Garden.
We're joined now by our roundtable folks from the Garden, John Harwood of the "Wall Street Journal," Terry Neal, the washingtonpost.com and the table's third leg, Nina Easton from the "Boston Globe" joins us from Washington tonight. We're glad to have all of you together, if apart. My guess is something like six or seven million Americans will have watched the convention tonight and the rest of the country will get their perception of what happened from what you all write tomorrow and what the broadcast networks report tomorrow. So Nina, let's start with you. What's the lead you'd write on this tonight?
NINA EASTON, "BOSTON GLOBE": Well, I have to say Aaron, I'm really struck, we talk about the polarized electorate. We talk about these two parties with extremely different world views. We talk about the oppositional culture that's going on in our country and yet, both parties want to project very similar images. They want to project an image of strength, so we saw uniforms on the stage at the Democratic convention. Here we see the big sign courage at home. And they want to project moderation. So tonight in particular, I thought it was really interesting with John McCain. He's almost like a Sunday school teacher preaching the golden rule and things should all good along. We should all stick together at the difficult time. So strength and moderation seem to be the same message of both party organizations.
BROWN: John, we are a nation at war and so a theme of being united, of being strong, of being courageous makes sense no matter what your party.
JOHN HARWOOD, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Sure, absolutely and I think tonight Aaron was about two things. One, for Republicans to rip John Kerry. You saw Rudy Giuliani did that with abandon and also to feel good about themselves. This hasn't been a great year for people who like George W. Bush and for the president and some members of his administration. He's been beaten around a lot because of problems with Iraq and turbulence in the economy and so you saw that in this outpouring of emotion against Michael Moore when John McCain made that reference to him.
You saw it in Dick Cheney getting applause. Dick Cheney doesn't get a lot of applause these days. His poll numbers aren't very good but he's very popular in this hall and Republicans -- the other key phrase by the way was Rudy Giuliani saying time to present the correct view of America for George W. Bush. They saw this as the night where they get to take the stage, begin to present their arguments and they loved it tonight.
BROWN: Terry, I don't think the Republican Party can go an entire week without mentioning the economy, without mentioning health care, without mentioning the range of social issues, but they managed to get through the entire night tonight without talking about any of them.
TERRY NEAL, WASHINGTONPOST.COM: That's right. I mean this night was all about doing one thing. It was sort of about restoring the luster that has really faded from George W. Bush since those days when he stood out here at ground zero with a bullhorn saying that these people who were killed will be remembered and that the deaths will be essentially avenged. What's happened here is that his popularity has eroded obviously among Democrats, who knew that that was probably going to happen anyway. But more a serious problem for him is that it eroded among independents. So what he did was bring out the two Republican politicians who probably have more credibility among independent voters than any other in the party, essentially vouched for him and this was all about national security. This was all about coming back to the place where he really started to resuscitate a stagnating presidency and have the two -- two of the most popular Republican politicians vouch for him.
BROWN: Terry...
EASTON: And you know Terry, even Giuliani's attack on Kerry was very much aimed at swing voters. You could tell. It was about leadership and about questioning the leadership. It was less his stand on issues than his wavering stand on issues and I thought that was quite interesting.
BROWN: Nina, thank you, John, Terry, thank you. We'll talk tomorrow, I suspect for a little longer. The schedule's a little shorter. Good to have you all with us tonight. Thank you.
We'll take a break. We'll come back, talk to Joe Klein of "Time" magazine and the legendary political reporter Jack Germond. This is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Madison Square Garden and we're up here on 58th Street in New York City where the Republicans are convening. We're joined by two veteran political reporters, but in truth, one more veteran than the other. Joe Klein of "Time" magazine joins us from over at the Garden and Jack Germond joins us here in New York. Mr. Germond has just written "Fat Man Fed Up: What Went Wrong With American Politics?" Was today, Mr. Germond, an example of what went wrong with American politics or what is right with American politics or neither?
JACK GERMOND, AUTHOR, "FAT MAN FED UP": Well, it's a little bit of both actually. I mean, I knew Rudy Giuliani before he was a virgin so to speak and he gives this marvelous stem winding speech, but the fact is, this -- all the things they were saying are not necessarily relevant to this campaign, because if they think they can run a campaign solely on whether George Bush behaved well 9/11, they would win, of course. No one's arguing with that. And there are other issues involved, and if Kerry is not a total sloth (ph), he will bring those issues to the floor.
BROWN: Joe, has Kerry to this point failed to bring those issues to the fore?
JOE KLEIN, "TIME" MAGAZINE: You know, Aaron, yes I think so. There's a real contrast between the Democratic convention. Remember that, it was so reserved and they were reasonable and they were even on time, and tonight the Republicans, who are usually the reserved, reasonable party, are passionate and idealistic. There's a lot of energy and they run way over and it just -- it's very striking to me, the difference between the two parties on these issues.
BROWN: Well, what does it mean?
KLEIN: What it means is that the president has taken a very strong, uncompromising, stubborn and in many cases unwise stand on the war on terrorism and they, the Republicans, feel that the only way to defend that stand is to be as strong and as uncompromising as he's been. So I think that they are -- it was a major show of strength tonight, but no much nuance and not much detail and you never heard the word Fallujah mentioned tonight.
BROWN: One man's stubbornness Jack, is another man's resolve I would say.
GERMOND: But this is rhetoric. These speeches, a lot of people saw them. McCain has an audience. Giuliani does too. They're both effective speakers. Their speeches, their speeches at the end of August. Now we got 60 days to go. People aren't going to go into the voting booth November 2nd on the basis of these speeches.
BROWN: That was the next thing I was going to ask. Is this just sort, this is like sugar candy that if -- and both conventions are still...
GERMOND: It's ritual.
BROWN: The speech kind of gets you going and but the rush of the speech doesn't last very long.
GERMOND: Does anybody remember the speech George Bush gave four years ago? I don't.
BROWN: Joe, did anything surprise you about what either Senator McCain or Giuliani had to say tonight?
KLEIN: Well, once again it was another contrast. You never heard the kind of directed, passionate attack on George W. Bush at the Democratic convention as you heard Rudy Giuliani make at this convention. It seems that these guys are playing much tougher, much harder and the Democrats -- I mean what Jack says is true about the staying power of rhetoric, but it does have some value and in retrospect, you didn't hear very much stirring stuff coming out of the Democratic party and you have this major issues that's dividing the country, arguably the most important decision that a president has made in a long time, to go to war in Iraq and it was barely addressed by the Democrats. It was clearly addressed by the Republicans tonight and I think that in the end, that's a little bit more effective.
BROWN: Joe, thank you, one last word Jack.
GERMOND: There's a difference between terrorism and the war in Iraq and maybe people will see that.
BROWN: We should get together more than every 36 years which is I think the last time... nice to see you.
Joe, we'll talk again tomorrow. We'll take a break. We'll talk about Herbert to get another slant on all of this. We'll take a break first. We continue.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: OK, over at the Garden. Senator John McCain, who's one of the principal speakers of the night, is still hanging around and Senator McCain, we're always pleased to see. He joins us for a couple of minutes tonight. Senator, good evening to you. Nicely done tonight. You speak to a country that is as polarized as perhaps any time since the late '60s. Why do you think that is so?
MCCAIN: I'm not sure if it's the Clinton impeachment or the Florida recount or the increased polarization due to redistricting, which gives the majority of Congress safe seats. I'm not sure all the reasons, but it's obvious that the Iraq war has been a catalyst in reopening a lot of wounds, including that of a war that was over 30 years ago.
BROWN: How do we get, if we get, how do we get beyond that? Here, let me throw one more sentence on it. It strikes me that we are at a time in our national life when we don't even want to listen to the other guy.
MCCAIN: I think so. That's why I made the statement in my speech we're Americans first, Americans last and Americans always and they are not our enemies. Our enemy out there is plotting right as we speak a way to hurt and destroy and we're going to have to come next January, try to knit up those wounds.... Good English, that's not good English, mend those fences.
BROWN: It's television. It's close enough for us. You have at various times been critical of the execution of the post war strategy from the administration in Iraq. You certainly have defended from the beginning the decision to go to war. Can you tell me, do you believe there is an exit strategy?
MCCAIN: Sure. The exit strategy is turning the government of Iraq over to the Iraqi people and they are able to govern themselves and that means that the United States will probably be there militarily for a long time.
BROWN: What is a long time?
MCCAIN: That's not so bad -- 10 years, 20 years. We've been in Korea for 50 years. We've been in west Germany for 50 years. We've been in Bosnia for what, 10 -- nine or 10 years. The key to it is not take American casualties and bring about an environment of peace and security and that's going to be very tough.
BROWN: Senator, I know you've only done about 50 interviews today. We appreciate being one of them.
MCCAIN: I'm always happy to be with you.
BROWN: Thank you sir, very much, Senator John McCain.
When the Democrats met in Boston, we would set aside this space to hear the other side. We do the same with the Republicans here in New York. Bob Herbert is one of the liberal voices writing in the "New York Times." Some people would say all the voices in the "Times" are liberal, but that would be incorrect. Mr. Herbert writes (ph) sharply on the op/ed page, joins us. If you were writing the lead tonight, with a point of view, what would you say?
BOB HERBERT, NEW YORK TIMES: I would say that the Republicans came at the Democrats right in your face tonight. I mean they were very confrontational. Senator McCain and Rudy Giuliani gave very strong, passionate speeches and they sort of let it be known that we're -- this is going to be really a tough fight from the beginning to the end. It's not going to be a gentile campaign. And it strikes me that I wonder whether Kerry and Edwards are up for that. They spent a lot of time at the Democratic convention trying to portray how tough they are. But we're going to see now, as the general campaign...
BROWN: It's a street fight.
HERBERT: It really is. It's a brawl and we're going to see now, as the campaign plays out, whether the public thinks they are in fact as tough as they say they are.
BROWN: Do you think either side to this point, two months before we all go to vote, either side has laid out a vision for the country for the next four years.
HERBERT: No, I've actually been complaining about that. I don't think either presidential candidate has laid out a vision, either for the next four years or even beyond, which is what I think presidents should be doing. I think the candidates are not even really dealing seriously with the important issues in this campaign. I mean, even tonight at the Republican convention, you once again saw the blurring of the lines between the war in Iraq and the war against terror. And you know, that's the way they want.
BROWN: Well, it's not a blurring of the lines. There is no line in the Republican -- in the Republican presentation in the way the president has presented the war with Iraq, there is no line between the two.
HERBERT: But when you talk -- they have nearly half a million demonstrators in New York yesterday, protesting the Bush policies and one of the key things so many of the protesters brought up is they were saying, we have this very serious war against terror. Why do we have 160,000 American troops in Iraq? And a lot of the Americans, a lot of the citizens see a very distinct line between the war in Iraq and the war against terror.
BROWN: As a -- you've been writing a lot about voter intimidation lately.
HERBERT: Florida.
BROWN: In Florida. Do you believe that there is an active plot to suppress the -- particularly the black vote in the state of Florida?
HERBERT: I wouldn't use the word plot. I would use the word effort. I think that there is a very strong effort to suppress the black by the Republican Party, to suppress the black vote in Florid. I mean if you talk to politicians in Florida of both parties, if you go off the record, nobody will say this is for the record. They will say blacks votes in Florida are Democratic votes, so part of the strategy in the Republican Party in a state that was so close we saw the last time and may well be that close again. Part of the strategy is to keep down the black vote as much as possible.
BROWN: Good to see you. I hope you'll come back. Thank you.
HERBERT: I'll be glad to.
BROWN: Thank you. Good to see all of you. We'll be back after the convention tomorrow. New edition of "LARRY KING LIVE" is coming up next. Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.
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