Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Ayatolla Sistani Worries Iraq Elections Will Not Happen; Prime Minister Allawi Supports President Bush At Press Conference Today; Senator Kerry Attacks Bush's Iraq Policy
Aired September 23, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
There is a universal lesson about war reporting. It was true in Vietnam, true no doubt long before. If you want to know what really is going on, talk to soldiers. Generals and their bosses have agendas. Soldiers on the ground have truths, not all the truth of course or the only truths but they have truths.
Back in Vietnam, reporters knew and the country learned that the briefing officer was more about wishful thinking than facts. The grunt knew where the war was, how the enemy was doing.
Iraq, we suspect, is no different, so tonight along with the commander-in-chief who tells the truths as he sees them, along with the Iraqi prime minister who has his point of view, we will tell a soldier's story or, more correctly, listen as he tells the story of his 14 months in Iraq.
Those of you who expect he will paint the bleakest possible picture will be disappointed as will those of you who expect the opposite. What you'll get instead is a realist view of the war and what it does and Iraq and where it is, a soldier's story tonight, perhaps long overdue. We'll get to that in a little bit.
But the whip begins at the White House where the official view of Iraq was front and center today and tonight, front and center, our Senior White House Correspondent John King, John a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, today a glimpse at the Rose Garden strategy with a remarkable twist, the prime minister of Iraq joining the president and helping the president rebut John Kerry's case that Iraq is in chaos -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.
On now to Iraq where events on the ground do paint a different picture, CNN's Brent Sadler has the watch in Baghdad tonight, so Brent a headline.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Aaron. Their prime minister tells the U.S. Congress his country is succeeding but here on the ground in the Iraqi capital the notion of success is a rare commodity among skeptical Iraqis consumed with the struggle to secure Iraq just four months ahead of planned elections -- Aaron.
BROWN: Brent, thank you.
The Iraqi elections, as Brent said, coming up, what will it take to make them happen, a reality check tonight from CNN's Andrea Koppel, so Andrea a headline from you.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, today the president, President Bush, and Iraq's interim prime minister said elections will go forward in that country in January but many are questioning with huge logistical problems and tremendous security issues how that can happen.
BROWN: Andrea, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up on the program tonight a public ruling in an emotional private battle over the fate of a brain damaged woman in the state of Florida.
Also, the fallout financial and otherwise for CBS in the wake of its now discredited "60 Minutes" report on the president's National Guard service.
And the last segment of the program is, of course, the first look at tomorrow morning's papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin again with Iraq and competing views of how bad things are on the ground and whether, come January, elections long planned will, in fact, go forward.
In Washington today, Iraq's interim prime minister paid his first official visit making stops at Congress and the White House. His trip comes six weeks before the U.S. presidential election with Iraq, at least this week, eclipsing almost every other issue. And so it did again today.
We have several reports beginning with our Senior White House Correspondent John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Side-by-side with Iraq's prime minister, a forceful Rose Garden rebuttal to a campaign rival who calls his Iraq policy a colossal failure.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're sickened by the atrocities but we'll never be intimidated and freedom is winning.
KING: The president rejected Democrat John Kerry's charge that he has misled the American people by painting a far too rosy picture of Iraq.
BUSH: Well, you can understand it's tough and still be optimistic. You can understand how hard it is and believe we'll succeed.
KING: Took issue with Senator Kerry's description of Iraq as a war of Mr. Bush's choice not a crucial front in the war on terror.
BUSH: If we stop fighting the terrorists in Iraq, they would be free to plot and plan attacks elsewhere in America and other free nations. To retreat now would betray our mission, our word and our friends.
KING: And rejected the charge he has stubbornly failed to adapt to the insurgency and other setbacks.
BUSH: We will adjust strategies on the ground depending upon the tactics of the enemy but we're not going to allow the suiciders to drive us out of Iraq.
KING: Mr. Bush voiced regret at his recent choice of words in dismissing a CIA report that is pessimistic about Iraq's political transition.
BUSH: I used an unfortunate word "guess." I should have used estimate.
KING: But he did not back off his optimism and urged those who doubt his assessments to listen to the prime minister's. Mr. Allawi often sounded as if he was rebutting Senator Kerry as well, saying 14 of Iraq's 18 provinces are secure and the training of Iraqi security forces is accelerating.
AYAD ALLWAWI, INTERIM IRAQI PRIME MINISTER: These doubters underestimate our country and they risk fueling the hopes of terrorism.
KING: In an upbeat speech to Congress, Mr. Allawi says the most powerful weapon against the insurgency is holding elections on schedule in January and he made clear his view on the question now central in this country's presidential race.
ALLAWI: Your decision to go to war in Iraq was not an easy one but it was the right one.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Remarkable to see a foreign leader willingly take center stage in a central role in the presidential campaign debate here in this country. Vice President Cheney said that by attacking Prime Minister Allawi publicly today, Senator Kerry had "taken a destructive note toward the U.S. mission in Iraq." And, Aaron, President Bush even went as far as saying that Senator Kerry was sending mixed signals that could embolden the enemy -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, we're six weeks away from an election here. The defense secretary said today that it may be that there cannot be an election in all of Iraq that will take essentially what we can get.
KING: And that's a tough one for the White House. The White House says Prime Minister Allawi privately and publicly is saying he believes he can get to a 100 percent national election by January but that it is possible that some parts of some of the provinces will not be secure enough to have an election, Secretary Rumsfeld saying that's better than no elections at all.
Many will call that into question, of course, but the key point is this. As the American people decide what's best or not they will vote in November, well before they have any idea what Iraq will look like and whether it will actually hold those elections as scheduled.
BROWN: John, thank you, good to see you again, John King from the White House tonight.
We've often said where you sit shapes how you see a story and from the beginning the war in Iraq has been a very clear case in point. Fair to say not everyone shares the relatively optimistic views laid out by the Iraqi prime minister today.
That piece of the story from Iraq and CNN's Brent Sadler.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER (voice-over): In Baghdad, Iraqis watch their prime minister deliver an upbeat assessment to the U.S. Congress. To some here, Ayad Allawi's is a rose tinted view, a progress report that struggles to resonate here in Iraq.
"One bad situation has been replaced with another bad situation," says engineer Halid Fahad (ph). "Eighteen months of occupation and nothing's changed that much."
But among some there's hope it will. "We just need more time," explains Mothana Shihad (ph), a currency dealer. "The old regime is kicking back and others, insiders or outsiders, want Iraq in chaos."
And chaos reigns this month in major towns and cities with suicide bombings and street battles. Just this week persistent fighting and the battles control the giant Shiite slum of Sadr City in Baghdad. The beheading of victims has turned into a strategic weapon of some terror groups.
FAWAZ GERGES, MID EAST ANALYST: The insurgency is spreading and becoming more sophisticated and deadly by the day. Far from winning the war against the insurgents, I think this is the beginning of the Iraq War, the beginning, not the end of it.
SADLER: A grim prediction that leads some to question the practicality of holding January elections in such dire circumstances. But Iraq's most influential Shia cleric, the Grand Ayatollah Ali al- Sistani, warns that any delay would be catastrophic for security and democracy in Iraq. But he's also concerned that the election process is being stacked in favor of former exiles like Allawi himself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER: Well, Iraq's Shia majority expect to wield the most power after an election but if the Sunni minority, Iraq's former rulers, are unable to vote because of violence engulfing key cities then the concept of free and fair elections, say observers, would be seriously undermined -- Aaron. BROWN: Just quickly, when you talk to people it's just a sampling of people. It's not a poll. It's not perfect. Do they think there will be elections in January?
SADLER: They hope there will be elections but no one's banking on it, simple as that -- Aaron.
BROWN: Brent, that is as simple as it gets. Thank you. We appreciate that. We're all hoping and we hope it turns out.
Even among those who disagree about whether the elections will happen on time, the importance of the vote itself can hardly be disputed. Talked about less frequently are the mechanics of holding an election in a country at war and Iraq is. It will not be easy.
That part of the story tonight from CNN's Andrea Koppel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (voice-over): Addressing skeptics head on, Prime Minister Allawi said the vast majority of Iraq could hold elections as soon as tomorrow.
ALLAWI: The Iraqi elections may not be perfect. They may not be the best elections that Iraq will ever hold but they will take place and they will be free and fair.
KOPPEL: But with only four months left before Election Day, privately U.S. and U.N. officials fear Iraq has neither the security nor the logistics in place for elections to go forward. President Bush says it's up to the United Nations to make sure Iraq is ready.
BUSH: Prime Minister Allawi and I have urged the U.N. to send sufficient personnel to help ensure the success of Iraqi elections.
KOPPEL: Fewer than ten U.N. election advisers are now in Baghdad and Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told Mr. Bush he won't send anymore until the security situation is stabilized and additional protection for U.N. staff is provided. So far, only the former Russian Republic of Georgia has offered to contribute to a U.N. protection force.
But even if security improves, experts say, Iraq still has a lot to do to prepare a credible framework for elections, establish a list of eligible voters among Iraq's 27 million people, set up an estimated 30,000 polling sites, train about 130,000 election workers and educate voters, another complicating factor, ensuring broad-based participation among Iraq's feuding ethnic and religious groups.
LES CAMPBELL, NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE: If Iraqis, Sunni, Kurd, Shia, Christian and otherwise are to feel that they are fully invested in a new Iraq, a democratic Iraq, they are going to have to have the opportunity to walk into a polling place and cast their vote for their leadership.
(END VIDEOTAPE) KOPPEL: Despite the positive words from Bush and Allawi, some U.S. officials behind the scenes acknowledge more pessimism that in reality it may be difficult to go ahead with elections as early as January and, if they did, worry whether Iraqis would accept those elections as legitimate -- Aaron.
BROWN: Now, the next challenge for you, having tackled this one for us, is to explain the complicated nature of the election itself how they're -- it's not like they're going to vote for a president and a vice president and members of Congress. They're talking about this big block of votes.
KOPPEL: And I can give you a real quick answer. They don't know yet. I mean a lot of these things have to be -- have to be worked out. In fact, they're thinking people would vote for a party and then the block of parties and then the parties would pick the representatives to go to parliament.
And, it is just -- there are so many steps that have as yet to be ironed out. Many people are saying even if security is not an issue, how are they going to lay the groundwork for elections in four months?
BROWN: Four months isn't much time. We will watch. Thank you, Andrea, good to see you here with us.
From the Kerry campaign, Iraq of course a very delicate dance, the argument cannot be from their perspective about going to war but rather about the conduct of the war itself. It can't be about Saddam but about everything after Saddam.
And so today, as the Iraqi prime minister was telling reporters things are better than you think, John Kerry again, with what voice he could muster, was arguing the point.
On the Kerry campaign again tonight, CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was barely a breath of time between when the prime minister was done and John Kerry began.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The prime minister and the president are here obviously to put their best face on the policy.
CROWLEY: And the Rose Garden news conference was still going when Democrats began clogging e-mail bins with reaction. It filled the void until Kerry's number two could chime in.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George W. Bush needs to come back to planet Earth and get out of Fantasyland that's what.
CROWLEY: It is the new, improved Kerry-Edwards campaign, motto, leave no news cycle behind. As one campaign strategist explained it, "We want to own this week's Iraq story." So, despite canceling a chunk of his schedule because of laryngitis, Kerry found voice enough to wedge his way into the headline story.
KERRY: We have an administration at disarray, the secretary of defense saying one thing and being corrected, the president saying one thing and being contradicted by the prime minister.
CROWLEY: The Kerry team thinks it found the sweet spot, a way to talk about Iraq that a) does not come back around to Kerry's vote for the war; b) draws bright lines between the president's Iraq policy and John Kerry's; and, c) dilutes the president's double digit advantage on leadership and integrity.
ANNOUNCER: George Bush keeps telling us things are getting better in Iraq. The facts tell a different story.
CROWLEY: Four days does not a campaign remake but Kerry staffers talk a good game and sometimes let the pictures say it. This is John Kerry arriving in Philadelphia and that's the new middleweight boxing champion who came to greet him.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Philadelphia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still in Iraq or on Iraq, the fate of the British hostage Ken Bigley whose two housemates were beheaded in Iraq this week remains unknown tonight. Mr. Bigley appeared on an Islamic website yesterday pleading for his life, asking the British Prime Minister Tony Blair to intervene.
Today, his 86-year-old mother was hospitalized after complaining of feeling unwell. Earlier she too asked the prime minister for help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you please help my son?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a breath. Go on take a breath.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is only a working man who wants to support his family. Please show mercy to Ken and send him home to me alive. His family needs him and I need him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Earlier this week on the program we heard similar pleas from the wife of American Jack Hensley, pleas of course that were ignored. This evening there was a memorial service for Mr. Hensley in Marietta, Georgia. His family wasn't there tonight. They will attend a service for him later this week.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, a private family matter that became public battle that now could be headed for the U.S. Supreme Court.
And later, a soldier's story from the camaraderie with fellow soldiers to the anger over a fallen comrade a break first.
From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Some stories will never have a happy ending. Terri Schiavo's life is an example of that. She's the Florida woman who's been brain damaged for more than a decade now.
The Florida State Supreme Court today said that Florida Governor Jeb Bush cannot decide her fate and the man with the legal right to do that, her husband, is still locked in a legal battle with her parents who desperately want to keep their daughter alive but whatever means they can.
From Florida tonight, CNN's John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): For the past 14 years, Bob and Mary Schindler have been fighting to keep their daughter Terri alive on life support. They have always believed their daughter, who was 26 years old when her heart failed, could be rehabilitated.
MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI'S MOTHER: I've always thought there was hope. When I go in there, you know, and she responds to me. She knows I'm there.
ZARRELLA: But court decisions have almost always gone against the Schindler's. This time Florida's Supreme Court ruled that the law allowing Terri Schiavo to be kept alive by a feeding tube is an unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers.
Last year, a Florida circuit court ruled there was no evidence that therapy would lead to any form of recovery. That cleared the way for Schiavo's husband Michael to have her removed from the feeding tube.
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI'S HUSBAND: She didn't want to be kept alive on anything artificial. She didn't want any tubes. She didn't want to be a burden to people.
ZARRELLA: Within days, the Florida legislature passed a bill that gave Governor Jeb Bush the power to trump the court and order Terri's feeding tube reinserted, which he did. The Florida's high court's ruling is not what the governor hoped to hear.
GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: In my heart I believe we did what was right but I'm respectful of the Supreme Court's decision.
ZARRELLA: The ACLU applauded the ruling.
LARRY SPALDING, ACLU SPOKESMAN: It was a powerful statement affirming judicial independence.
ZARRELLA: The governor has not decided whether to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few other items making news tonight.
You've seen the pictures of Haiti since Tropical Storm Jeanne, the flooding, the destruction, the death, which could reach 2,000. Those were isolated snapshots. Here are some pictures from space that show you a part of a nation destroyed.
This is the northern tip of Haiti before Tropical Storm Jeanne. This is after. Here's another shot and after, Haiti, after the storm.
In other news tonight, tax cuts during an election year, few politicians can resist that and so it was on Capitol Hill tonight, Congress voting to extend three tax cuts for the middle class. Some Democrats complain the tax cuts without any offsets would only increase the deficit but most voted for it anyway, election year after all.
And this is about as close to a miracle as we've seen this week. In Montana, two people who everyone thought had died when their plane crashed survived two days of freezing temperatures, walked away alive. Three others died in the crash.
Still ahead on the program tonight, the fallout financial and otherwise, the future of CBS after the Bush National Guard controversy story.
And the prime minister's visit to Washington, it's on the front page of your morning papers we suspect.
Around the world and from New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BROOKS, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": You've got to have a political strategy and you've got to have a military strategy. You've got to have a political strategy that will address the concerns of regular Iraqis who've joined the insurgency for one reason or another.
You've got to use our Iraqis, the Iraqis who want a democratic Iraq to give them something concrete, win them over. But then you've got to have a military strategy too and those are the people who, like Zarqawi, who just want to spread death and destruction. So, what you do is you win over the people you can, town by town and then you kill the people you can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Iraq, on we go. Bill Burkett, the man who gave CBS News those now disputed documents about the president's National Guard service, is one angry man it seems these days. He told CNN today in an e-mail exchange he's angry with CBS for revealing his identity.
Burkett admits he misled CBS News producer Mary Mapes about the source of the documents. He also says they have yet to be proven fake. Burkett isn't the only one who is angry, of course. The president's supporters are angry. Many journalists are angry. And a lot of CBS-affiliated stations are really angry.
Here's CNN's Howard Kurtz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS: I want to say personally and directly, I'm sorry.
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CBS and its star anchor are trying to tamp down the blaze of controversy over that "60 Minutes" piece charging that George W. Bush got favored treatment in the National Guard.
But even within the CBS corporate family the temperature remains hot. Some of CBS' local stations, the real financial bread and butter for Viacom, are questioning Dan Rather's future.
As the head of the CBS affiliates, Bob Lee of the Roanoke, Virginia station said: "There is a body of people who just intensely dislike Dan Rather and see an opportunity to demand his immediate resignation, or that he be shot. Viewers have been quite vocal that we are so tarnished by this lapse of judgment at the network that they may take their viewing elsewhere."
And some are taking their business elsewhere. Norfolk radio station WNIS has cut its ties with what was once called the Tiffany network and jumped to ABC, saying: "The credibility and reputation of CBS News had been seriously damaged by the ongoing scandal."
CBS has tapped former Attorney General Richard Thornburgh, along with retired AP executive Lou Boccardi, to investigate the "60 Minutes" mess. Some CBS staffers, sympathetic to Rather, are wondering why Thornburgh was picked. He's not only a former Republican governor but was named to the cabinet by the first President Bush, the father of the man at the center of the National Guard dispute.
While some executives may wind up losing their jobs, it will be hard for the network to dump Rather. He has been the brand, the symbol, the face of CBS News for 23 years unless, of course, his ratings take a dive.
(on camera): CBS executives, like politicians who say they can't comment on a matter under investigation, hope the naming of the outside panel will get this mess off the media radar screen and give them some breathing room. But with passions running so high about Rather among the affiliates, on talk radio and in cyberspace, the controversy isn't likely to cool anytime soon.
Howard Kurtz, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And on Sunday, Howie's "RELIABLE SOURCES" expands to an hour to examine the CBS News story from all its sides. That's 11:30 Eastern time here on CNN.
Still to come from us tonight a soldier's story, life in Iraq from the front lines to the mission of peace. We take a break first From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: When those names go by each night, we read them all. So far, we haven't personally known any one of them.
Jon Powers, on the other hand, has known four. Mr. Powers, Captain Powers, spent 14 months in Iraq, part of the 1st Armored Division. We saw him and them in a piece of a documentary we ran last summer called "Gunner's Palace." We spent some time with him yesterday. His is a soldier's story, one part idealism, one part realism. There is anger and sorrow and a lot of growing up. In many ways, it is the story of war, this war and others, the good and the bad.
So, tonight, in two parts, meet Jon Powers and hear a soldier's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: How would you describe your outlook on that day in May when you arrived in Baghdad?
CAPT. JON POWERS, U.S. ARMY: Leading into it, it about was about a 24-hour convoy up there. And, as you pulled into town, we got off the Humvees and we were sort of walking around, talking to the locals. And, you know, everyone's weapon is sort of at the ready, but sort of down low. It hadn't really hit yet that we were in Baghdad.
And the 3rd I.D. guys came in, the guys that had been there for a month now, and they came off their Humvees full speed, and, you know, ran off the locals and started checking guys for weapons. And it was a really -- it was sort of a wakeup call for everyone.
BROWN: It was your first sense that you couldn't be sure where danger was.
POWERS: Exactly. Exactly.
BROWN: How long were you there before your platoon lost somebody?
POWERS: The battalion lost Lieutenant Ben Colgan in 1st of November, 2003. Ben himself was a former special forces, highly respected among us because he was the guy that sort of showed us the ropes when we got there. How are we going to raid a house? Ben, you've done it before. How do we do it? And a very fun-loving guy, always cracking a joke.
BROWN: What's strange about all of this, I think, is that we tend to report it as a big picture. And you all experience it as a series of small pictures, small moments, small days. How did that one awful moment change your view of where you were, what you had to do, what your goals were, the people that you were there to liberate, the country you were occupying, all of it?
POWERS: For us, it was a shock of mortality, the fact that we had gone all this way. We had had a lot of injuries and a lot of casualties, but no fatalities. And it sort of was a wakeup call to everyone that says this is, you know, life and death we're playing here. It's not just -- we're not just out here playing G.I. Joe anymore.
BROWN: In the time that you were in country, did your view of the mission change?
POWERS: The mission remained the same, but our mission going in, we were really optimistic about the change. The Iraqis were very optimistic about us being there and about clearing Saddam, liberating them and trying to reestablish just a government, reestablish a society.
As the year progressed, it got a little more towards survival for us. Of course, you're going to go out and you want to make sure the schools are running and the garbage trucks are running and the sewage trucks are running, which hadn't run for months. But, at the same point, you're also watching your back a little more closely.
BROWN: We, all of us, I think, struggle to understand the nature of the insurgency. And it isn't one thing.
POWERS: Yes.
BROWN: There certainly is the terrorist, the Islamic fundamentalist, the foreign fighter, the Zarqawi influence. We certainly believe, I believe, and led to believe, that there's also an element of Iraqis who basically have come, for whatever reason -- and I want you to tell me the reason -- have come to hate us enough to kill you. What happened?
POWERS: One of the hardest things for them to grasp when we first got there was just the nature of bureaucracy, waiting for the money, waiting for contracts. They started to see, for instance, like we had tried to set up a program to collect garbage, because it had been almost 120 days since the garbage trucks were picking up garbage. And the neighborhoods were covered in trash.
But they were working contracts at higher levels, trying to get the whole city running. And so it took a few extra weeks. And they saw it that -- they saw it as we were breaking our promises to them. BROWN: What was the worst day you had there?
POWERS: One of the worst days I had was, we went to the orphanage. And we used to spend a lot of time at the orphanage. And we would take these children toys and food and clothing and things that, you know, the innocent victims of this whole war that had nothing to do with it, the orphans, and we would provide them with things they had never had before.
And one day, we went in and one of the nuns had taken us aside and said, please don't come back anymore, because, every time you come here, the terrorists come and tell us they're going to kill us if we work with the Americans anymore. And they threatened the children.
And what kind of person does that? And that was -- of course, the deaths are obviously an extremely tough thing to deal with, knowing that your friends get killed. But, unfortunately, you get sort of immune to that.
BROWN: Do you?
POWERS: You have to. You have to.
BROWN: You had four, right?
POWERS: We had four in our unit. We had four. But we had other friends outside that.
BROWN: I mean, was the last of -- I assume the first is the worst. It's the first.
POWERS: The first is the worst.
And then we had Ben Colgan, who got killed in November. Then we had Stuart Moore, who was in my platoon when I was a platoon leader. And Edward Matt Saltz in December -- they got killed the same day, along with the Iraqi interpreter that had been working with us. We were all in the same vehicle. And then David McKeever got killed the beginning of April when the insurgency sort of rose back up.
And it didn't get any easier by any means, but it became -- one of my tasks was, I was in charge of casualties. And so it became for me sort of a battle drill, to where you knew somebody got killed, OK. I needed this report. I needed to make sure this happened. And you couldn't really react to it emotionally until you had everything set up and everyone's walking by the memorial services, which I think was very important for everyone, that we were able to do that for at least those guys' friends and their fellow soldiers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: War changes you, no matter who you are. So part two of our conversation with young Jon Powers continues on that subject after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: I suppose it's a cliche to say that war changes soldiers. How could it not? Young men and women are sent to fight. And if they are lucky, they come back whole and they come back home.
More now on our interview with Captain Jon Powers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: How did the whole experience change you?
POWERS: One of the first things we heard coming into -- when we were in Kuwait is, a colonel had -- Colonel Tucker (ph), who was our brigade commander at the time, got up on top of a truck and gave us a pep talk.
And at the end of the pep talk, he said, when you guys leave Baghdad, you're going to be 10 years older. And you really felt that coming out of there. You felt like, A, you had just lost 14 months of your life, and, B, you've seen things that you know your peers and people your age have never -- and you hope they never to witness.
And going into the war, I think I was a pretty optimistic, fun- loving guy, and coming out of it, probably a little more pessimistic, probably a little more angry. And it's taken a while to sort of find myself again, you know?
BROWN: And how are you doing in that regard?
POWERS: I'm trying. I'm trying. I've been -- I'm blessed with a good family and good friends to help get through the things that we have to deal with, but, for the most, just sort of try to reinstate your life and keep going.
BROWN: You're doing some teaching, right?
POWERS: Yes. I started to do a little substitute teaching.
BROWN: And you were going to do a little traveling?
POWERS: I do some traveling.
BROWN: And are you -- I don't -- believe me when I tell you I'm not a shrink and I don't play one on TV.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Are you looking for something? Are you trying to find sort of what's next in your life, who you are next?
POWERS: I think I'm sort of trying to regain what I lost in 14 months, because one of the things that I had the advantage of having, living in Germany, is, I had a great group of -- our group of lieutenants were really close. And we traveled all over Europe, and trying to sort of make up for that and ready to start the next phase of my life, where I'll be getting into a career and ready to hunker down. And I just want to make sure I'm ready for that. BROWN: Tell me what, to you, means victory in Iraq.
POWERS: I think the key to Iraq is that we stay there until we get this job done, the key to that being that the Iraqis have established themselves as a government and that the oil is flowing to the Iraqis.
Until we get that money into their hands, and not into the hands of the government, and not into the hands of American companies, into the hands of the Iraqis themselves, then no Iraqi is going to pick up an AK-47 and run at an American Abrams tank because his mom told him to.
There will be -- they will be at peace and they won't be as fanatical as what they believe in. And once they realize what freedom is, I think they'll enjoy it.
BROWN: Do you think it's doable?
POWERS: I think it's doable. I think it's a -- it's a long challenge. I don't think it's a short-term goal.
BROWN: How disappointed would you be if, when the Iraqis vote -- they will, we all hope, in January, and it will be the first in a series -- that the Iraqis decide what they want is an Islamic state, a theocracy?
POWERS: I don't think I would -- I would be upset, of course, just because we went in there to set democracy.
But, at the same point, we went in there to give them their freedom. And if that's the freedom they choose, that's what we have to give them. But it's going to be hard for a family like the Colgans to accept that their son went to Iraq to die for an Islamic state.
BROWN: You signed up for the ROTC when you were a high school kid.
POWERS: Yes.
BROWN: Knowing what you know now, having experienced what you experienced, having changed in the way you changed, would you do it again?
POWERS: I would do it again, only because I wouldn't want my brother to have to do it, or I wouldn't want those terrorists to come here and fight what they're fighting.
But if I went back to see myself when I was 17 years old, I might wave myself off on from signing the contract and think about it. But it's been quite an experience, quite an experience, something that's changed me.
BROWN: It's nice to meet you.
POWERS: It's been a pleasure. BROWN: Thank you for coming in. Thank you for what you did. And I'm glad you were here to tell about it.
POWERS: I appreciate the opportunity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Captain Jon Powers. He's a pretty good young man, isn't he?
Another changed man is a guy named Scott Taylor, a very different sort of guy. He was captured, taken hostage in Iraq just as U.S. forces were moving into a city in the northern part of the country not that long ago. He's a former soldier, describes himself as a professional soldier. He's a journalist now who covers wars for a Canadian paper. We talked to him today, asking him, after his experience, being kidnapped, if he would ever go back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT TAYLOR, FORMER HOSTAGE: I know personally I won't be going back. I mean, I've been covering it, seeing the situation deteriorating. I still felt that I had a good sense for what was happening. But for me to have made a mistake of this magnitude, like I did, I never saw it coming that the police were involved with the resistance.
I just thank God that I managed to get out. And, at this point now, it's almost too dangerous for anybody to be in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: You'll hear his complete interview -- and it is gripping -- tomorrow right here on NEWSNIGHT. Join us.
Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: OK, time to check morning -- I don't know if the band was playing in or not, but time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world, not a lot of good news out there, but a lot of good papers.
"The Times," a British paper. "Leaders Rule Out Deals As Family Begs For Mercy." This is the mother of Ken Bigley -- you heard her earlier -- in the hospital after a TV appeal to spare her son's life. Man, that was about as painful a moment as we have seen in a long time.
"International Herald Tribune," this is -- falls in the category of, now what? What's next? How does it get worse? "Hepatitis Spreads in Two Iraqi Districts. Collapse of Water and Sewage Systems Believed to be the Root of the Illness." "Both Bush and Allawi Express No Doubts." They were optimistic today, as you heard.
"The Christian Science Monitor" also leads that way. "Iraqi's Optimistic Message to the World." Hope that works out.
"The Philadelphia Inquirer." I like this story, because it's a good piece of political analysis. Some people will disagree with it, of course. They always do. Down here, "Where Kerry Stands on Iraq. His Position Has Been Consistent. His Bids to Explain It Often Falter." I would agree with both of those things.
Out in Des Moines, Iowa, you can pick up a copy of "The Des Moines Register." And you could do a whole lot worse than buying that newspaper. It's a good one. "Edwards' Mess in Iraq Shows Bush Incompetent. Democrat Sharpens His Barbs During Iowa Visit." And they put the president on the front page, too. "Bush: If Troops Leave, Terror May Rise." That's "The Des Moines Register."
Not too far away in Burt County, Nebraska. Good news here. The schools meet the writing levels. The local schools out there are doing better, it turns out. So that's a front page story in "The Plaindealer." Also, we're sad to note the passing of Norm Rogers (ph), who died at 81 out in Burt County.
"The Chicago Sun-Times" ends it. This story is too much, OK, right here. "Dogs Can Smell cancer in Humans." "A cocker spaniel is one of six dogs, all ordinary pets, who can smell bladder cancer." Go figure that.
The weather tomorrow in Chicago, "vivid."
We'll vividly wrap up the program in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I'll be off tomorrow for the holiday, so I'll see you next from Seattle, as we take NEWSNIGHT on the road. Watch this map.
Here we go. We'll go to Seattle on Monday. Tuesday, we're in the Rose City of Portland. Off to San Francisco on Wednesday. Thursday, the debate night in L.A. And Friday, where else to end the week but Las Vegas. NEWSNIGHT goes to the West Coast. The staff has been flying back and forth for about a month, putting together some very cool West Coast stories to go along with all the day's top news and everything else that makes NEWSNIGHT, NEWSNIGHT -- all next week on the road from the West Coast. We hope you'll join us.
Have a terrific weekend. Actually, be here tomorrow. Someone will.
Good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired September 23, 2004 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
There is a universal lesson about war reporting. It was true in Vietnam, true no doubt long before. If you want to know what really is going on, talk to soldiers. Generals and their bosses have agendas. Soldiers on the ground have truths, not all the truth of course or the only truths but they have truths.
Back in Vietnam, reporters knew and the country learned that the briefing officer was more about wishful thinking than facts. The grunt knew where the war was, how the enemy was doing.
Iraq, we suspect, is no different, so tonight along with the commander-in-chief who tells the truths as he sees them, along with the Iraqi prime minister who has his point of view, we will tell a soldier's story or, more correctly, listen as he tells the story of his 14 months in Iraq.
Those of you who expect he will paint the bleakest possible picture will be disappointed as will those of you who expect the opposite. What you'll get instead is a realist view of the war and what it does and Iraq and where it is, a soldier's story tonight, perhaps long overdue. We'll get to that in a little bit.
But the whip begins at the White House where the official view of Iraq was front and center today and tonight, front and center, our Senior White House Correspondent John King, John a headline.
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, today a glimpse at the Rose Garden strategy with a remarkable twist, the prime minister of Iraq joining the president and helping the president rebut John Kerry's case that Iraq is in chaos -- Aaron.
BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get to you at the top tonight.
On now to Iraq where events on the ground do paint a different picture, CNN's Brent Sadler has the watch in Baghdad tonight, so Brent a headline.
BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Aaron. Their prime minister tells the U.S. Congress his country is succeeding but here on the ground in the Iraqi capital the notion of success is a rare commodity among skeptical Iraqis consumed with the struggle to secure Iraq just four months ahead of planned elections -- Aaron.
BROWN: Brent, thank you.
The Iraqi elections, as Brent said, coming up, what will it take to make them happen, a reality check tonight from CNN's Andrea Koppel, so Andrea a headline from you.
ANDREA KOPPEL, CNN STATE DEPARTMENT CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, today the president, President Bush, and Iraq's interim prime minister said elections will go forward in that country in January but many are questioning with huge logistical problems and tremendous security issues how that can happen.
BROWN: Andrea, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.
Also coming up on the program tonight a public ruling in an emotional private battle over the fate of a brain damaged woman in the state of Florida.
Also, the fallout financial and otherwise for CBS in the wake of its now discredited "60 Minutes" report on the president's National Guard service.
And the last segment of the program is, of course, the first look at tomorrow morning's papers, all that and more in the hour ahead.
We begin again with Iraq and competing views of how bad things are on the ground and whether, come January, elections long planned will, in fact, go forward.
In Washington today, Iraq's interim prime minister paid his first official visit making stops at Congress and the White House. His trip comes six weeks before the U.S. presidential election with Iraq, at least this week, eclipsing almost every other issue. And so it did again today.
We have several reports beginning with our Senior White House Correspondent John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KING (voice-over): Side-by-side with Iraq's prime minister, a forceful Rose Garden rebuttal to a campaign rival who calls his Iraq policy a colossal failure.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're sickened by the atrocities but we'll never be intimidated and freedom is winning.
KING: The president rejected Democrat John Kerry's charge that he has misled the American people by painting a far too rosy picture of Iraq.
BUSH: Well, you can understand it's tough and still be optimistic. You can understand how hard it is and believe we'll succeed.
KING: Took issue with Senator Kerry's description of Iraq as a war of Mr. Bush's choice not a crucial front in the war on terror.
BUSH: If we stop fighting the terrorists in Iraq, they would be free to plot and plan attacks elsewhere in America and other free nations. To retreat now would betray our mission, our word and our friends.
KING: And rejected the charge he has stubbornly failed to adapt to the insurgency and other setbacks.
BUSH: We will adjust strategies on the ground depending upon the tactics of the enemy but we're not going to allow the suiciders to drive us out of Iraq.
KING: Mr. Bush voiced regret at his recent choice of words in dismissing a CIA report that is pessimistic about Iraq's political transition.
BUSH: I used an unfortunate word "guess." I should have used estimate.
KING: But he did not back off his optimism and urged those who doubt his assessments to listen to the prime minister's. Mr. Allawi often sounded as if he was rebutting Senator Kerry as well, saying 14 of Iraq's 18 provinces are secure and the training of Iraqi security forces is accelerating.
AYAD ALLWAWI, INTERIM IRAQI PRIME MINISTER: These doubters underestimate our country and they risk fueling the hopes of terrorism.
KING: In an upbeat speech to Congress, Mr. Allawi says the most powerful weapon against the insurgency is holding elections on schedule in January and he made clear his view on the question now central in this country's presidential race.
ALLAWI: Your decision to go to war in Iraq was not an easy one but it was the right one.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: Remarkable to see a foreign leader willingly take center stage in a central role in the presidential campaign debate here in this country. Vice President Cheney said that by attacking Prime Minister Allawi publicly today, Senator Kerry had "taken a destructive note toward the U.S. mission in Iraq." And, Aaron, President Bush even went as far as saying that Senator Kerry was sending mixed signals that could embolden the enemy -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well, we're six weeks away from an election here. The defense secretary said today that it may be that there cannot be an election in all of Iraq that will take essentially what we can get.
KING: And that's a tough one for the White House. The White House says Prime Minister Allawi privately and publicly is saying he believes he can get to a 100 percent national election by January but that it is possible that some parts of some of the provinces will not be secure enough to have an election, Secretary Rumsfeld saying that's better than no elections at all.
Many will call that into question, of course, but the key point is this. As the American people decide what's best or not they will vote in November, well before they have any idea what Iraq will look like and whether it will actually hold those elections as scheduled.
BROWN: John, thank you, good to see you again, John King from the White House tonight.
We've often said where you sit shapes how you see a story and from the beginning the war in Iraq has been a very clear case in point. Fair to say not everyone shares the relatively optimistic views laid out by the Iraqi prime minister today.
That piece of the story from Iraq and CNN's Brent Sadler.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER (voice-over): In Baghdad, Iraqis watch their prime minister deliver an upbeat assessment to the U.S. Congress. To some here, Ayad Allawi's is a rose tinted view, a progress report that struggles to resonate here in Iraq.
"One bad situation has been replaced with another bad situation," says engineer Halid Fahad (ph). "Eighteen months of occupation and nothing's changed that much."
But among some there's hope it will. "We just need more time," explains Mothana Shihad (ph), a currency dealer. "The old regime is kicking back and others, insiders or outsiders, want Iraq in chaos."
And chaos reigns this month in major towns and cities with suicide bombings and street battles. Just this week persistent fighting and the battles control the giant Shiite slum of Sadr City in Baghdad. The beheading of victims has turned into a strategic weapon of some terror groups.
FAWAZ GERGES, MID EAST ANALYST: The insurgency is spreading and becoming more sophisticated and deadly by the day. Far from winning the war against the insurgents, I think this is the beginning of the Iraq War, the beginning, not the end of it.
SADLER: A grim prediction that leads some to question the practicality of holding January elections in such dire circumstances. But Iraq's most influential Shia cleric, the Grand Ayatollah Ali al- Sistani, warns that any delay would be catastrophic for security and democracy in Iraq. But he's also concerned that the election process is being stacked in favor of former exiles like Allawi himself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SADLER: Well, Iraq's Shia majority expect to wield the most power after an election but if the Sunni minority, Iraq's former rulers, are unable to vote because of violence engulfing key cities then the concept of free and fair elections, say observers, would be seriously undermined -- Aaron. BROWN: Just quickly, when you talk to people it's just a sampling of people. It's not a poll. It's not perfect. Do they think there will be elections in January?
SADLER: They hope there will be elections but no one's banking on it, simple as that -- Aaron.
BROWN: Brent, that is as simple as it gets. Thank you. We appreciate that. We're all hoping and we hope it turns out.
Even among those who disagree about whether the elections will happen on time, the importance of the vote itself can hardly be disputed. Talked about less frequently are the mechanics of holding an election in a country at war and Iraq is. It will not be easy.
That part of the story tonight from CNN's Andrea Koppel.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KOPPEL (voice-over): Addressing skeptics head on, Prime Minister Allawi said the vast majority of Iraq could hold elections as soon as tomorrow.
ALLAWI: The Iraqi elections may not be perfect. They may not be the best elections that Iraq will ever hold but they will take place and they will be free and fair.
KOPPEL: But with only four months left before Election Day, privately U.S. and U.N. officials fear Iraq has neither the security nor the logistics in place for elections to go forward. President Bush says it's up to the United Nations to make sure Iraq is ready.
BUSH: Prime Minister Allawi and I have urged the U.N. to send sufficient personnel to help ensure the success of Iraqi elections.
KOPPEL: Fewer than ten U.N. election advisers are now in Baghdad and Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told Mr. Bush he won't send anymore until the security situation is stabilized and additional protection for U.N. staff is provided. So far, only the former Russian Republic of Georgia has offered to contribute to a U.N. protection force.
But even if security improves, experts say, Iraq still has a lot to do to prepare a credible framework for elections, establish a list of eligible voters among Iraq's 27 million people, set up an estimated 30,000 polling sites, train about 130,000 election workers and educate voters, another complicating factor, ensuring broad-based participation among Iraq's feuding ethnic and religious groups.
LES CAMPBELL, NATIONAL DEMOCRATIC INSTITUTE: If Iraqis, Sunni, Kurd, Shia, Christian and otherwise are to feel that they are fully invested in a new Iraq, a democratic Iraq, they are going to have to have the opportunity to walk into a polling place and cast their vote for their leadership.
(END VIDEOTAPE) KOPPEL: Despite the positive words from Bush and Allawi, some U.S. officials behind the scenes acknowledge more pessimism that in reality it may be difficult to go ahead with elections as early as January and, if they did, worry whether Iraqis would accept those elections as legitimate -- Aaron.
BROWN: Now, the next challenge for you, having tackled this one for us, is to explain the complicated nature of the election itself how they're -- it's not like they're going to vote for a president and a vice president and members of Congress. They're talking about this big block of votes.
KOPPEL: And I can give you a real quick answer. They don't know yet. I mean a lot of these things have to be -- have to be worked out. In fact, they're thinking people would vote for a party and then the block of parties and then the parties would pick the representatives to go to parliament.
And, it is just -- there are so many steps that have as yet to be ironed out. Many people are saying even if security is not an issue, how are they going to lay the groundwork for elections in four months?
BROWN: Four months isn't much time. We will watch. Thank you, Andrea, good to see you here with us.
From the Kerry campaign, Iraq of course a very delicate dance, the argument cannot be from their perspective about going to war but rather about the conduct of the war itself. It can't be about Saddam but about everything after Saddam.
And so today, as the Iraqi prime minister was telling reporters things are better than you think, John Kerry again, with what voice he could muster, was arguing the point.
On the Kerry campaign again tonight, CNN's Candy Crowley.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CANDY CROWLEY, CNN SR. POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There was barely a breath of time between when the prime minister was done and John Kerry began.
SEN. JOHN KERRY (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The prime minister and the president are here obviously to put their best face on the policy.
CROWLEY: And the Rose Garden news conference was still going when Democrats began clogging e-mail bins with reaction. It filled the void until Kerry's number two could chime in.
SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George W. Bush needs to come back to planet Earth and get out of Fantasyland that's what.
CROWLEY: It is the new, improved Kerry-Edwards campaign, motto, leave no news cycle behind. As one campaign strategist explained it, "We want to own this week's Iraq story." So, despite canceling a chunk of his schedule because of laryngitis, Kerry found voice enough to wedge his way into the headline story.
KERRY: We have an administration at disarray, the secretary of defense saying one thing and being corrected, the president saying one thing and being contradicted by the prime minister.
CROWLEY: The Kerry team thinks it found the sweet spot, a way to talk about Iraq that a) does not come back around to Kerry's vote for the war; b) draws bright lines between the president's Iraq policy and John Kerry's; and, c) dilutes the president's double digit advantage on leadership and integrity.
ANNOUNCER: George Bush keeps telling us things are getting better in Iraq. The facts tell a different story.
CROWLEY: Four days does not a campaign remake but Kerry staffers talk a good game and sometimes let the pictures say it. This is John Kerry arriving in Philadelphia and that's the new middleweight boxing champion who came to greet him.
Candy Crowley, CNN, Philadelphia.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still in Iraq or on Iraq, the fate of the British hostage Ken Bigley whose two housemates were beheaded in Iraq this week remains unknown tonight. Mr. Bigley appeared on an Islamic website yesterday pleading for his life, asking the British Prime Minister Tony Blair to intervene.
Today, his 86-year-old mother was hospitalized after complaining of feeling unwell. Earlier she too asked the prime minister for help.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you please help my son?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take a breath. Go on take a breath.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is only a working man who wants to support his family. Please show mercy to Ken and send him home to me alive. His family needs him and I need him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Earlier this week on the program we heard similar pleas from the wife of American Jack Hensley, pleas of course that were ignored. This evening there was a memorial service for Mr. Hensley in Marietta, Georgia. His family wasn't there tonight. They will attend a service for him later this week.
Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, a private family matter that became public battle that now could be headed for the U.S. Supreme Court.
And later, a soldier's story from the camaraderie with fellow soldiers to the anger over a fallen comrade a break first.
From New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Some stories will never have a happy ending. Terri Schiavo's life is an example of that. She's the Florida woman who's been brain damaged for more than a decade now.
The Florida State Supreme Court today said that Florida Governor Jeb Bush cannot decide her fate and the man with the legal right to do that, her husband, is still locked in a legal battle with her parents who desperately want to keep their daughter alive but whatever means they can.
From Florida tonight, CNN's John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN MIAMI BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): For the past 14 years, Bob and Mary Schindler have been fighting to keep their daughter Terri alive on life support. They have always believed their daughter, who was 26 years old when her heart failed, could be rehabilitated.
MARY SCHINDLER, TERRI'S MOTHER: I've always thought there was hope. When I go in there, you know, and she responds to me. She knows I'm there.
ZARRELLA: But court decisions have almost always gone against the Schindler's. This time Florida's Supreme Court ruled that the law allowing Terri Schiavo to be kept alive by a feeding tube is an unconstitutional violation of the separation of powers.
Last year, a Florida circuit court ruled there was no evidence that therapy would lead to any form of recovery. That cleared the way for Schiavo's husband Michael to have her removed from the feeding tube.
MICHAEL SCHIAVO, TERRI'S HUSBAND: She didn't want to be kept alive on anything artificial. She didn't want any tubes. She didn't want to be a burden to people.
ZARRELLA: Within days, the Florida legislature passed a bill that gave Governor Jeb Bush the power to trump the court and order Terri's feeding tube reinserted, which he did. The Florida's high court's ruling is not what the governor hoped to hear.
GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: In my heart I believe we did what was right but I'm respectful of the Supreme Court's decision.
ZARRELLA: The ACLU applauded the ruling.
LARRY SPALDING, ACLU SPOKESMAN: It was a powerful statement affirming judicial independence.
ZARRELLA: The governor has not decided whether to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.
John Zarrella, CNN, Miami.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: A few other items making news tonight.
You've seen the pictures of Haiti since Tropical Storm Jeanne, the flooding, the destruction, the death, which could reach 2,000. Those were isolated snapshots. Here are some pictures from space that show you a part of a nation destroyed.
This is the northern tip of Haiti before Tropical Storm Jeanne. This is after. Here's another shot and after, Haiti, after the storm.
In other news tonight, tax cuts during an election year, few politicians can resist that and so it was on Capitol Hill tonight, Congress voting to extend three tax cuts for the middle class. Some Democrats complain the tax cuts without any offsets would only increase the deficit but most voted for it anyway, election year after all.
And this is about as close to a miracle as we've seen this week. In Montana, two people who everyone thought had died when their plane crashed survived two days of freezing temperatures, walked away alive. Three others died in the crash.
Still ahead on the program tonight, the fallout financial and otherwise, the future of CBS after the Bush National Guard controversy story.
And the prime minister's visit to Washington, it's on the front page of your morning papers we suspect.
Around the world and from New York this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BROOKS, COLUMNIST, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": You've got to have a political strategy and you've got to have a military strategy. You've got to have a political strategy that will address the concerns of regular Iraqis who've joined the insurgency for one reason or another.
You've got to use our Iraqis, the Iraqis who want a democratic Iraq to give them something concrete, win them over. But then you've got to have a military strategy too and those are the people who, like Zarqawi, who just want to spread death and destruction. So, what you do is you win over the people you can, town by town and then you kill the people you can.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: Iraq, on we go. Bill Burkett, the man who gave CBS News those now disputed documents about the president's National Guard service, is one angry man it seems these days. He told CNN today in an e-mail exchange he's angry with CBS for revealing his identity.
Burkett admits he misled CBS News producer Mary Mapes about the source of the documents. He also says they have yet to be proven fake. Burkett isn't the only one who is angry, of course. The president's supporters are angry. Many journalists are angry. And a lot of CBS-affiliated stations are really angry.
Here's CNN's Howard Kurtz.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAN RATHER, CBS NEWS: I want to say personally and directly, I'm sorry.
HOWARD KURTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): CBS and its star anchor are trying to tamp down the blaze of controversy over that "60 Minutes" piece charging that George W. Bush got favored treatment in the National Guard.
But even within the CBS corporate family the temperature remains hot. Some of CBS' local stations, the real financial bread and butter for Viacom, are questioning Dan Rather's future.
As the head of the CBS affiliates, Bob Lee of the Roanoke, Virginia station said: "There is a body of people who just intensely dislike Dan Rather and see an opportunity to demand his immediate resignation, or that he be shot. Viewers have been quite vocal that we are so tarnished by this lapse of judgment at the network that they may take their viewing elsewhere."
And some are taking their business elsewhere. Norfolk radio station WNIS has cut its ties with what was once called the Tiffany network and jumped to ABC, saying: "The credibility and reputation of CBS News had been seriously damaged by the ongoing scandal."
CBS has tapped former Attorney General Richard Thornburgh, along with retired AP executive Lou Boccardi, to investigate the "60 Minutes" mess. Some CBS staffers, sympathetic to Rather, are wondering why Thornburgh was picked. He's not only a former Republican governor but was named to the cabinet by the first President Bush, the father of the man at the center of the National Guard dispute.
While some executives may wind up losing their jobs, it will be hard for the network to dump Rather. He has been the brand, the symbol, the face of CBS News for 23 years unless, of course, his ratings take a dive.
(on camera): CBS executives, like politicians who say they can't comment on a matter under investigation, hope the naming of the outside panel will get this mess off the media radar screen and give them some breathing room. But with passions running so high about Rather among the affiliates, on talk radio and in cyberspace, the controversy isn't likely to cool anytime soon.
Howard Kurtz, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And on Sunday, Howie's "RELIABLE SOURCES" expands to an hour to examine the CBS News story from all its sides. That's 11:30 Eastern time here on CNN.
Still to come from us tonight a soldier's story, life in Iraq from the front lines to the mission of peace. We take a break first From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: When those names go by each night, we read them all. So far, we haven't personally known any one of them.
Jon Powers, on the other hand, has known four. Mr. Powers, Captain Powers, spent 14 months in Iraq, part of the 1st Armored Division. We saw him and them in a piece of a documentary we ran last summer called "Gunner's Palace." We spent some time with him yesterday. His is a soldier's story, one part idealism, one part realism. There is anger and sorrow and a lot of growing up. In many ways, it is the story of war, this war and others, the good and the bad.
So, tonight, in two parts, meet Jon Powers and hear a soldier's story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: How would you describe your outlook on that day in May when you arrived in Baghdad?
CAPT. JON POWERS, U.S. ARMY: Leading into it, it about was about a 24-hour convoy up there. And, as you pulled into town, we got off the Humvees and we were sort of walking around, talking to the locals. And, you know, everyone's weapon is sort of at the ready, but sort of down low. It hadn't really hit yet that we were in Baghdad.
And the 3rd I.D. guys came in, the guys that had been there for a month now, and they came off their Humvees full speed, and, you know, ran off the locals and started checking guys for weapons. And it was a really -- it was sort of a wakeup call for everyone.
BROWN: It was your first sense that you couldn't be sure where danger was.
POWERS: Exactly. Exactly.
BROWN: How long were you there before your platoon lost somebody?
POWERS: The battalion lost Lieutenant Ben Colgan in 1st of November, 2003. Ben himself was a former special forces, highly respected among us because he was the guy that sort of showed us the ropes when we got there. How are we going to raid a house? Ben, you've done it before. How do we do it? And a very fun-loving guy, always cracking a joke.
BROWN: What's strange about all of this, I think, is that we tend to report it as a big picture. And you all experience it as a series of small pictures, small moments, small days. How did that one awful moment change your view of where you were, what you had to do, what your goals were, the people that you were there to liberate, the country you were occupying, all of it?
POWERS: For us, it was a shock of mortality, the fact that we had gone all this way. We had had a lot of injuries and a lot of casualties, but no fatalities. And it sort of was a wakeup call to everyone that says this is, you know, life and death we're playing here. It's not just -- we're not just out here playing G.I. Joe anymore.
BROWN: In the time that you were in country, did your view of the mission change?
POWERS: The mission remained the same, but our mission going in, we were really optimistic about the change. The Iraqis were very optimistic about us being there and about clearing Saddam, liberating them and trying to reestablish just a government, reestablish a society.
As the year progressed, it got a little more towards survival for us. Of course, you're going to go out and you want to make sure the schools are running and the garbage trucks are running and the sewage trucks are running, which hadn't run for months. But, at the same point, you're also watching your back a little more closely.
BROWN: We, all of us, I think, struggle to understand the nature of the insurgency. And it isn't one thing.
POWERS: Yes.
BROWN: There certainly is the terrorist, the Islamic fundamentalist, the foreign fighter, the Zarqawi influence. We certainly believe, I believe, and led to believe, that there's also an element of Iraqis who basically have come, for whatever reason -- and I want you to tell me the reason -- have come to hate us enough to kill you. What happened?
POWERS: One of the hardest things for them to grasp when we first got there was just the nature of bureaucracy, waiting for the money, waiting for contracts. They started to see, for instance, like we had tried to set up a program to collect garbage, because it had been almost 120 days since the garbage trucks were picking up garbage. And the neighborhoods were covered in trash.
But they were working contracts at higher levels, trying to get the whole city running. And so it took a few extra weeks. And they saw it that -- they saw it as we were breaking our promises to them. BROWN: What was the worst day you had there?
POWERS: One of the worst days I had was, we went to the orphanage. And we used to spend a lot of time at the orphanage. And we would take these children toys and food and clothing and things that, you know, the innocent victims of this whole war that had nothing to do with it, the orphans, and we would provide them with things they had never had before.
And one day, we went in and one of the nuns had taken us aside and said, please don't come back anymore, because, every time you come here, the terrorists come and tell us they're going to kill us if we work with the Americans anymore. And they threatened the children.
And what kind of person does that? And that was -- of course, the deaths are obviously an extremely tough thing to deal with, knowing that your friends get killed. But, unfortunately, you get sort of immune to that.
BROWN: Do you?
POWERS: You have to. You have to.
BROWN: You had four, right?
POWERS: We had four in our unit. We had four. But we had other friends outside that.
BROWN: I mean, was the last of -- I assume the first is the worst. It's the first.
POWERS: The first is the worst.
And then we had Ben Colgan, who got killed in November. Then we had Stuart Moore, who was in my platoon when I was a platoon leader. And Edward Matt Saltz in December -- they got killed the same day, along with the Iraqi interpreter that had been working with us. We were all in the same vehicle. And then David McKeever got killed the beginning of April when the insurgency sort of rose back up.
And it didn't get any easier by any means, but it became -- one of my tasks was, I was in charge of casualties. And so it became for me sort of a battle drill, to where you knew somebody got killed, OK. I needed this report. I needed to make sure this happened. And you couldn't really react to it emotionally until you had everything set up and everyone's walking by the memorial services, which I think was very important for everyone, that we were able to do that for at least those guys' friends and their fellow soldiers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: War changes you, no matter who you are. So part two of our conversation with young Jon Powers continues on that subject after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: I suppose it's a cliche to say that war changes soldiers. How could it not? Young men and women are sent to fight. And if they are lucky, they come back whole and they come back home.
More now on our interview with Captain Jon Powers.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: How did the whole experience change you?
POWERS: One of the first things we heard coming into -- when we were in Kuwait is, a colonel had -- Colonel Tucker (ph), who was our brigade commander at the time, got up on top of a truck and gave us a pep talk.
And at the end of the pep talk, he said, when you guys leave Baghdad, you're going to be 10 years older. And you really felt that coming out of there. You felt like, A, you had just lost 14 months of your life, and, B, you've seen things that you know your peers and people your age have never -- and you hope they never to witness.
And going into the war, I think I was a pretty optimistic, fun- loving guy, and coming out of it, probably a little more pessimistic, probably a little more angry. And it's taken a while to sort of find myself again, you know?
BROWN: And how are you doing in that regard?
POWERS: I'm trying. I'm trying. I've been -- I'm blessed with a good family and good friends to help get through the things that we have to deal with, but, for the most, just sort of try to reinstate your life and keep going.
BROWN: You're doing some teaching, right?
POWERS: Yes. I started to do a little substitute teaching.
BROWN: And you were going to do a little traveling?
POWERS: I do some traveling.
BROWN: And are you -- I don't -- believe me when I tell you I'm not a shrink and I don't play one on TV.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Are you looking for something? Are you trying to find sort of what's next in your life, who you are next?
POWERS: I think I'm sort of trying to regain what I lost in 14 months, because one of the things that I had the advantage of having, living in Germany, is, I had a great group of -- our group of lieutenants were really close. And we traveled all over Europe, and trying to sort of make up for that and ready to start the next phase of my life, where I'll be getting into a career and ready to hunker down. And I just want to make sure I'm ready for that. BROWN: Tell me what, to you, means victory in Iraq.
POWERS: I think the key to Iraq is that we stay there until we get this job done, the key to that being that the Iraqis have established themselves as a government and that the oil is flowing to the Iraqis.
Until we get that money into their hands, and not into the hands of the government, and not into the hands of American companies, into the hands of the Iraqis themselves, then no Iraqi is going to pick up an AK-47 and run at an American Abrams tank because his mom told him to.
There will be -- they will be at peace and they won't be as fanatical as what they believe in. And once they realize what freedom is, I think they'll enjoy it.
BROWN: Do you think it's doable?
POWERS: I think it's doable. I think it's a -- it's a long challenge. I don't think it's a short-term goal.
BROWN: How disappointed would you be if, when the Iraqis vote -- they will, we all hope, in January, and it will be the first in a series -- that the Iraqis decide what they want is an Islamic state, a theocracy?
POWERS: I don't think I would -- I would be upset, of course, just because we went in there to set democracy.
But, at the same point, we went in there to give them their freedom. And if that's the freedom they choose, that's what we have to give them. But it's going to be hard for a family like the Colgans to accept that their son went to Iraq to die for an Islamic state.
BROWN: You signed up for the ROTC when you were a high school kid.
POWERS: Yes.
BROWN: Knowing what you know now, having experienced what you experienced, having changed in the way you changed, would you do it again?
POWERS: I would do it again, only because I wouldn't want my brother to have to do it, or I wouldn't want those terrorists to come here and fight what they're fighting.
But if I went back to see myself when I was 17 years old, I might wave myself off on from signing the contract and think about it. But it's been quite an experience, quite an experience, something that's changed me.
BROWN: It's nice to meet you.
POWERS: It's been a pleasure. BROWN: Thank you for coming in. Thank you for what you did. And I'm glad you were here to tell about it.
POWERS: I appreciate the opportunity.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Captain Jon Powers. He's a pretty good young man, isn't he?
Another changed man is a guy named Scott Taylor, a very different sort of guy. He was captured, taken hostage in Iraq just as U.S. forces were moving into a city in the northern part of the country not that long ago. He's a former soldier, describes himself as a professional soldier. He's a journalist now who covers wars for a Canadian paper. We talked to him today, asking him, after his experience, being kidnapped, if he would ever go back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SCOTT TAYLOR, FORMER HOSTAGE: I know personally I won't be going back. I mean, I've been covering it, seeing the situation deteriorating. I still felt that I had a good sense for what was happening. But for me to have made a mistake of this magnitude, like I did, I never saw it coming that the police were involved with the resistance.
I just thank God that I managed to get out. And, at this point now, it's almost too dangerous for anybody to be in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: You'll hear his complete interview -- and it is gripping -- tomorrow right here on NEWSNIGHT. Join us.
Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
BROWN: OK, time to check morning -- I don't know if the band was playing in or not, but time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world, not a lot of good news out there, but a lot of good papers.
"The Times," a British paper. "Leaders Rule Out Deals As Family Begs For Mercy." This is the mother of Ken Bigley -- you heard her earlier -- in the hospital after a TV appeal to spare her son's life. Man, that was about as painful a moment as we have seen in a long time.
"International Herald Tribune," this is -- falls in the category of, now what? What's next? How does it get worse? "Hepatitis Spreads in Two Iraqi Districts. Collapse of Water and Sewage Systems Believed to be the Root of the Illness." "Both Bush and Allawi Express No Doubts." They were optimistic today, as you heard.
"The Christian Science Monitor" also leads that way. "Iraqi's Optimistic Message to the World." Hope that works out.
"The Philadelphia Inquirer." I like this story, because it's a good piece of political analysis. Some people will disagree with it, of course. They always do. Down here, "Where Kerry Stands on Iraq. His Position Has Been Consistent. His Bids to Explain It Often Falter." I would agree with both of those things.
Out in Des Moines, Iowa, you can pick up a copy of "The Des Moines Register." And you could do a whole lot worse than buying that newspaper. It's a good one. "Edwards' Mess in Iraq Shows Bush Incompetent. Democrat Sharpens His Barbs During Iowa Visit." And they put the president on the front page, too. "Bush: If Troops Leave, Terror May Rise." That's "The Des Moines Register."
Not too far away in Burt County, Nebraska. Good news here. The schools meet the writing levels. The local schools out there are doing better, it turns out. So that's a front page story in "The Plaindealer." Also, we're sad to note the passing of Norm Rogers (ph), who died at 81 out in Burt County.
"The Chicago Sun-Times" ends it. This story is too much, OK, right here. "Dogs Can Smell cancer in Humans." "A cocker spaniel is one of six dogs, all ordinary pets, who can smell bladder cancer." Go figure that.
The weather tomorrow in Chicago, "vivid."
We'll vividly wrap up the program in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: I'll be off tomorrow for the holiday, so I'll see you next from Seattle, as we take NEWSNIGHT on the road. Watch this map.
Here we go. We'll go to Seattle on Monday. Tuesday, we're in the Rose City of Portland. Off to San Francisco on Wednesday. Thursday, the debate night in L.A. And Friday, where else to end the week but Las Vegas. NEWSNIGHT goes to the West Coast. The staff has been flying back and forth for about a month, putting together some very cool West Coast stories to go along with all the day's top news and everything else that makes NEWSNIGHT, NEWSNIGHT -- all next week on the road from the West Coast. We hope you'll join us.
Have a terrific weekend. Actually, be here tomorrow. Someone will.
Good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
