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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Rumors Of Reinstituting The Draft Abound; Afghan Elections Set For Saturday

Aired October 06, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening, again. Iraq is the connective tissue that holds the program together tonight. In much of what we do, it is there. It is there in reports of Sadr City, where the fighting and the dying goes on. It is there in the words of the former administrator of Iraq, Paul Bremer who said one thing then and says another thing now about troops on the ground. It is there in the unstoppable persistent rumor that Iraq and whatever comes after Iraq, will lead to a return of a draft.
That's what this is, a rumor. There are no facts to support it. No plans to implement it. No political will to fight for it. But it won't go away. Students think about it, fear it. A woman, a mom who was a guest on this program last week, worries about it. She did then. She has two young sons. We'll look at why that is tonight and ask one more question about it -- not whether there will be one, but why shouldn't there be one? Why shouldn't every kid, and we mean every, serve the country in one way or another for a year or two?

Every kid. Rich kids, poor kids, black, white, brown kids. Would that really be such an awful idea? No politician will broach it, of course. It involves sacrifice, which says less about the value of the idea than it does about the state of politics in the country today. But for now, the war trumps all. CNN's Brent Sadler starts the whip, in Baghdad. Brent, a headline tonight.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Aaron. Militants in Sadr City, a teeming slum. Around 2 million people on Baghdad's city limits, could lay down weapons in a new initiative after weeks of deadly clashes and U.S. air strikes.

BROWN: Brent, thank you. Get back to you at the top tonight.

On to Chicago and those draft rumors. Jonathan Freed worked part of the story today, Jon, a headline.

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president denies it. The House of Representatives just voted against it. But young people in this country are still worried about a military draft.

BROWN: Jon, thank you.

Afghanistan next. The election's coming, violence, too. CNN's Christiane Amanpour is there. Christiane, a headline.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the campaign has ended. But on the last day of campaigning, an assassination attempt against one of the candidates. He survived. But this violence is worrying ahead of Saturday's election.

BROWN: Christiane, thank you.

And finally, Washington. More headaches for one of the most powerful men in Congress. CNN's Ed Henry with that. Ed, a headline.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the House Ethics Committee has hit House Majority Leader Tom Delay with the second and third public admonishment in one week, an extraordinary reprimand. Aaron.

BROWN: Ed, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest of you in a moment.

Also coming up on the program tonight, two days before the second presidential debate and 27 days before the election. Questions about the run up to Iraq took center stage again. And we touched on it at the top. We'll expand our discussion on the draft to cover the broader question of all forms of national service. Other countries do it and at the end, morning papers. Of course, the rooster crows. All that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight as we often do with the war. Along with more of the same, there are signs too of progress along a very tricky front. Even as the shooting goes on in Sadr City, Muqtada al Sadr, the cleric, the militia leader and the hero to many, has begun talking about a cease-fire. From Baghdad tonight, CNN's Brent Sadler.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: His outlawed Mehdi army militia has battled Iraqi and U.S. troops for months. Muqtada al Sadr, political outcast, renegade Shia Muslim cleric, making moves that could end deadly clashes in Baghdad's slum district of Sadr City, home to around one-tenth of Iraq's entire population. For al Sadr, possible entry into mainstream politics, one day, if loyal militants disarm. Conditional first, they say, on a cease-fire, ending U.S. air strikes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Secondly, that Sadr followers will turn in their weapons in exchange for cash payments. Thirdly, immunity from prosecution for most of the cleric's followers. And fourth, release of detainees.

SADLER: No to an immediate cease fire, says the government of interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. Weapons first, but yes to amnesty for many if the initiative holds.

AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI INTERIM PRIME MINISTER: They will respect and abide by the rule of law in the city. They will welcome the police to go back on the streets of the city.

SADLER: Replacing the chaotic control of al Sadr militiamen. In the past month, U.S. warplanes have pounded Mehdi Army fighters here, sparking growing unrest, claim Iraqi officials among embattled and impoverished Shia Muslims in this densely-populated neighborhood of some 2 million people. Senior Iraqi government officials concede that a not so subtle blend of U.S. led military fire power and Iraqi dialogue should break the violent deadlock in Sadr City. A vital proving ground for joint Iraqi/U.S. strategy, to overcome insurgents in other rebel strong holds with intensifying offensives on both the political and military fronts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: If a smooth surrender of weapons goes ahead anytime soon in Sadr City, it could give Iraq's interim government leverage to make it work elsewhere. But the big nut to crack is still Fallujah, west of Baghdad and there is no sign so far that these sort of tactics are having much positive effect there. Aaron?

BROWN: That's a whole set of different characters in Fallujah. As briefly as you can, is this the early stage of a negotiation?

SADLER: It's coming to the end of a long, protracted, detailed negotiation. If it works, say U.S. and Iraqi officials on the ground here, it could be a breakthrough.

BROWN: Brent, thank you very much. Brent Sadler in Baghdad tonight.

With the war in Iraq dominating the presidential campaign and the election itself less than a month away now, the top U.S. arms inspector today delivered his long-awaited and unsurprising verdict. The report of the Iraqi survey group is more than 1,000 pages. But it's boils down to this.

Contrary to the prewar statements by the president and his advisers, contrary it seems to the intelligence provided to them and to Congress, contrary to what much of the world seems to believe, Saddam Hussein did not have chemical and biological weapons when the war began and his nuclear capabilities were deteriorating, not advancing. Those are facts. The opinion part is more complicated. Here's CNN's David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The careful analyst hired by the CIA to lead the search for weapons of mass destruction found himself in the glare of TV lights with his words parsed by both parties in this election year. His key finding, giving ammunition to Democrats, who charge the president went to war over stockpiles of weapons that were not there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES DUELFER, CIA IRAQ WEAPONS INSPECTOR: It is my judgment that the contained stocks do not exist.

ENSOR: Charles Duelfer said his team has found no weapons, does not expect them to be found and no evidence of any meaningful chemical, biological or nuclear weapons programs activity since the mid 1990s. That said, Duelfer said Saddam Hussein himself, now a prisoner, has admitted he wanted to keep whatever weapons he could, given U.N. sanctions.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R) ARIZONA: Is there any doubt in your mind, that if Saddam Hussein were in power today and there were no restrictions or sanctions placed on him, that he would be attempting to acquire weapons of mass destruction, Mr. Duelfer?

DUELFER: To me, I think that's quite clear.

ENSOR: Still, Duelfer's Iraq survey group has spent $900 million, thus far, said one senator, who questioned the point of it all.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Why does the search keep going on and on and on and aren't we at the point where we have to admit the stockpiles don't exist? And then what's obviously become a wild goose chase.

DUELFER: You say wild goose chase. We've had a couple people die. We've had a couple people wounded. To tell them they've been involved in a wild goose chase, to me it's not really what we're doing. We were meant to find what existed with respect to WMD. We were not tasked to find weapons. We were tasked to find the truth of the program (ph)

ENSOR: White House spokesman Scott McClellan stressed the points in the report favorable to the administration's case, that it says Saddam Hussein retained the intent and capability to return to productions of weapons of mass destruction, that he was working to undermine the U.N. sanctions any way he could. David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Today's report was the late in a series of items calling into question, either the justification for going into Iraq or the execution of what came next -- the failings, if you want to call them that, fall we think into two, broad categories. Things that should have been known, might have been known but weren't and things that were said that might have made a difference but were not said in public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Paul Bremer arrived to a Baghdad in chaos. If it could be stolen, it was. The looting was rampant. It was that looting, that lawlessness, that was the beginning of the distrust for the army that expected to be greeted as liberators. Now, in two speeches, Bremer says there were not enough soldiers to impose order and that we continue to pay a price for that failure.

In a speech to an insurance group he said this - we paid a big price for not stopping it, the looting, because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness. And he added, never had enough troops on the ground. Two weeks ago, he said this in a speech in Indiana. The one thing that would have improved the situation would have been having more troops in Iraq at the beginning and throughout. And he added, although I raised this issue a number of times with our government, I would have been even more insistent.

So today Bremer says there were not enough troops and that he was telling his bosses that? But what he wasn't doing was telling the American people that. Here is the sound from Bremer that summer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER: Do you need more U.S. troops, more boots on the ground as they say at the Pentagon, in order to get the situation stabilized?

PAUL BREMER: I don't think so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you asked Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld for more American troops?

BREMER: No. I have not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we need more?

BREMER: I do not believe we do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever been made a request for more troops that's been denied by the military?

BREMER: No. I've never made a request for more troops that's been agreed to. I've never made a request for more troops.

BROWN: It appears those public statements were untrue. And we will simply never know how different the situation might be today, if he had been given the troops he asked for or if he had, at the time, made his concerns public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All of this, of course, is playing out in a deeply-divided country, during a hotly-contested presidential election arguably, the worst time imaginable excuse me, for serious policy debate. Yet undeniably, a vital one. So, two reports tonight. CNN's Dan Lothian with the Kerry campaign and Suzanne Malveaux, with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Iraq is no diversion. It is the place where civilization is taking a decisive stand against chaos and terror. And we must not waiver.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Bush in the battleground state of Pennsylvania is pursuing an aggressive strategy to portray John Kerry as unfit to lead in the war on terror.

BUSH: The senator would have America bend over backwards to satisfy a handful of governments with agendas different from our own. My opponent's alliance, strength-building strategy. Brush off your best friends. Fawn over your critics. And that is no way to gain the respect of the world.

MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush furthered chided Kerry for his 1991 vote against the Persian Gulf war.

BUSH: If that coalition didn't pass his global test, clearly nothing will.

MALVEAUX: At a town hall meeting in Tallahassee, Florida, Vice President Dick Cheney echoed Mr. Bush's serious doubts about Kerry's fitness to be commander in chief.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There isn't anything in John Kerry's background, since -- for the last 30 years, that gives you any reason to believe that he would in fact be tough, in terms of prosecuting the war on terror.

MALVEAUX: Previewing his strategy for this Friday's presidential debate, Mr. Bush blasted Kerry as a tax and spend liberal.

BUSH: My opponent and I have a very different view on how to grow our economy. Let me start with taxes. I have a record of reducing them. He has a record of raising them.

MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush will begin preparing for the next debate in earnest in the days ahead. In the meantime, President Bush tried to make light of what many saw as his downfall in the last debate, those grimaces and scowls. Mr. Bush joked that if you heard such inaccuracies, you'd understand why he made such a face. Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dan Lothian with the Kerry campaign at this golf resort in Englewood, Colorado, where the senator is working on his debate swing, top aides and advisers, using role playing to prepare him for the town hall-style match up in St. Louis.

MIKE McCURRY, KERRY ADVISER: The stakes are higher now. The expectations are higher. This is an important debate. It's one that's a different format because real Americans are involved, not just reporters.

LOTHIAN: And the campaign is reminding those real people of Kerry's first debate performance last week with this new ad.

CAMPAIGN AD: You've seen the debate where John Kerry was strong and clear.

LOTHIAN: Even as the campaign is focusing on domestic issues, senior adviser Mike McCurry keeps Iraq on the front burner weighing in on the final WMD report which concludes Saddam Hussein had no stockpiles of illicit weapons in Iraq when the U.S. invaded and had not begun any programs to produce them.

McCURRY: This president did not level with the American people about the reasons for going to war. This is a damning report. It's one that will probably dominate a lot of the discussion on foreign policy.

LOTHIAN: Since congratulating his running mate in this highly choreographed post-debate photo op, Kerry has stayed out of sight, leaving Senator Edwards to do the ticket's tough talk. In Florida, Edwards attacked the president's latest blistering speech as misleading and desperate.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You got the same, old, tired ideas, the same old false attacks, the same old tired rhetoric. There are no new ideas. There are no new plans. This president is completely out of touch with reality and it showed again in his speech today.

LOTHIAN (on-camera): Even as the Bush campaign calls those attacks inaccurate, Kerry advisers promise a lively, aggressive posture with less than one month to go, aiming to show, especially those undecided voters a clearer picture of Senator Kerry as commander in chief. Dan Lothian, CNN, Englewood, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I think it's going to be lively come Friday.

One other late development out of Washington tonight, how or even if it plays in the campaign, anyone's guess. A third ethical strike, if you will, against Tom Delay, the House majority leader. But not three strikes and you're out. Here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY (voice-over): The ethics panel criticized the Texas Republican for appearing to link political donations to legislative action, in his dealings with West Star energy, a Kansas company. The panel also found Delay improperly used government resources by getting the Federal Aviation Administration to track the movement of Texas Democrats, who fled the state because of a battle over redistricting.

Members of the ethics panel put off action on a third allegation that Delay, through his political action committee, funneled illegal corporate contributions to candidates for state office in Texas. Three people associated with the PAC were indicted last month on money laundering charges. This follows last Thursday's finding that Delay had acted improperly during the high profile vote over the Medicare reform bill.

The Ethics panel found Delay violated a House rule, when he offered a political favor in an effort to get a fellow Republican to switch his vote from no to yes on the prescription drug bill. Democrats are pouncing with one House aide telling CNN quote, three admonishments in a week is pretty serious. He can't say it's partisan, because this is a bipartisan committee.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HENRY: In a prepared statement, Congressman Delay said tonight, the charges were politically motivated, an attempt by Democrats to smear his name. An attorney for the congressman insisted that the three rebukes will have no effect on Delay's political standing and that he will stay on as majority leader. Aaron.

BROWN: Ed, thank you very much. I think there are five Democrats, five Republicans on that committee. Thank you sir. Before we got to break, one more quick item -- we may soon learn publicly, formally, the name of the woman who accused Kobe Bryant, Laker basketball star of rape. A Federal court judge in the Denver area today ruled that the public's interest in an open-court proceeding outweighs her desire to remain anonymous. The 20-year-old woman, suing Mr. Bryant in civil court, Federal court, in Denver.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, the politics of the draft. All the reasons for not bringing it back and a few for reviving it or something like it.

In Afghanistan, with the clock running, teaching the voters how to vote, when they often can't read at all. Great firsts. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A world away from the Bush/Kerry race, another election of pivotal importance about to take place. In two days, Afghanistan will for the first time hold a democratic presidential election. Afghanistan is where the war on terror began and continues and what happens this weekend will be seen by many as a measure of what might be possible in Iraq. Getting to this point has not been easy. One of the challenges -- just staying alive until Election Day. Here's CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Hamid Karzai has led Afghanistan through its post-Taliban transition. Now, he's asking the people to give him a mandate to vote free and without fear.

HAMID KARZAI (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): if someone comes to you with money and power and says, I have come from Karzai, don't vote for me.

AMANPOUR: Afghans are not used to hearing that. Karzai promises a vote for him will be a vote for continued peace, prosperity and stability. The threat and the violence have been a constant factor throughout this election campaign. Even as Karzai was here at the Kabul stadium, his running mate escaped injury when a bomb exploded by his convoy at a rally in northern Afghanistan.

It's not just the violence, it's the unknown. There are 18 candidates for president to be elected by direct vote. They must get a majority to win outright and avoid a runoff. But that's all double Dutch to most people we talked to. Out in the countryside, we found (INAUDIBLE) and his friend Hamid harvesting their grapes for market. Both cheerfully admit they're illiterate, like 80 percent of the population. And they're confused about who to vote for and how to do it. "God knows who he wants as president" says (INAUDIBLE). I'll go to the voting booth. And if I try to vote for someone that God doesn't want, he'll move my hand to the right box which adds some urgency to the U.N.'s basic democracy lessons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a ballot paper is. How to mark a ballot paper, what it means, how to identify the candidates whom you wish to support on the ballot paper.

AMANPOUR: Civic education has been hampered by the violence. 12 election workers have been killed and dozens more injured. Human rights watch says many voters complain of intimidation by warlords and the power of the gun. So, here in Kabul, many say they will vote to end all that.

So that we can have security, welfare and live in peace says Nuria (ph). It's for the happiness of all the Afghan people and all Muslims. Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Kabul, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And Christiane joins us now from Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a country changed if not exactly transformed. It still can be very inhospitable to women. The warlords still have a lot of power. How different is it from when you first got there, years ago?

AMANPOUR: Aaron, it's a world of difference, especially here in the north of Afghanistan. I think to sum up, a lot of progress has been made, particularly in the north. But a huge amount has not been done and obviously still needs to be done in the south, as this resurgent Taliban, which has really threatened a lot of the democracy building and civil society building down there and this election on Saturday. And the leaders here complain that not enough money and security was poured into this country at the very beginning. But it's better than it was. That's for sure.

BROWN: Violence a kind of daily concern for everybody at polling stations when they go to vote. Is that the sort of thing they're concerned about?

AMANPOUR: They are concerned about it. Both the U.S., the other international forces here, the Afghan security, such as it is, are bracing for a spike in violence. They're bracing for potential disruption on Saturday at the polls because the Taliban, which as I say has gained a grip and a foothold in the southern part of this country, has declared these elections an enemy of Islam and has declared a threat against all the candidates. So there is an expectation but they're hoping that they can contain it as best as they can and people are determined to go out and vote.

BROWN: I hope they do and I hope they do safely. Anyone who has ever watched these transformations, we saw one in South Africa, marvels at them. Christiane, stay safe, good to talk to you, thank you. Christiane Amanpour tonight. Coming up on the program, an institution absent for more than 30 years but plenty of rumors about it. And the occasion to ask -- should there be a draft? Should all young Americans be asked what they can do for their country? That's coming up.

Later, the end, morning papers from New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Someone asked me the other day, how long we were going to continue to do that. I said forever. We're devoting a large part of the program tonight to the draft which might strike you as odd, seeing as it was banished more than 30 years ago and virtually nobody in or out of government wants to revive it. Not the Congress, not the Pentagon, not the president, not Senator Kerry though he has hinted that President Bush might and yet, as the parallels between Iraq and Vietnam have grown, so too have the jitters.

In a moment, we'll deal with how this got going and whether some kind of national service, such as military service, might not be a good thing.

We start out looking at how we got here. The draft in this country was born during the Civil War, along with the draft riots. As America entered World War I, nearly three million American men were drafted into service. In 1940, before the beginning of World War II, the president, Franklin Roosevelt, signed the Selective Training and Service Act, which created the country's first peacetime draft. That draft allowed the United States to rapidly deploy 10 million conscripts in World War II.

In the Korean War, about 1.5 million men were drafted. And in Vietnam, the number of draftees reached almost two million, but many of the rich and well-to-do and well-connected managed to avoid it. In 1973, the draft ended and the United States converted to an all- volunteer Army. it remains an all-volunteer military today.

Inside the beltway, the idea of starting up a draft again is radioactive. Outside the beltway, fueled by those in politics, we suspect, and the unstoppable Internet rumor mill, which can turn nothing into something overnight, it is a different matter. Go to college campuses. We did.

Here's CNN's Jonathan Freed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The commander in chief is coming here to Washington University in Saint Louis on Friday for the second presidential debate. Students are wondering, if President Bush wins a second term, will it mean the return of the military draft?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say it's going to be a mass draft. And you're not safe if you're going to be in school.

FREED: And even though Mr. Bush has explicitly denied it...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be distraught.

FREED (on camera): Would you serve?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I would. I believe that it is part of my duty as an American.

FREED (voice-over): ... the draft rumors, including a widely- circulated unsigned e-mail alleging that a Bush administration could pull the trigger on it next year have been popping up on the Internet and college campuses.

(on camera): Would you serve willingly or would you try to find a way out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly, I would serve willingly.

FREED (voice-over): Trying to pinpoint the source of a rumor is more an art than a science. But in this case, it's political science, at least partly.

In 2003, Democrats introduced two bills in Congress, hoping to stifle support for the Iraq war by calling for a draft.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would not be OK with it at all. I don't feel like the current war is something that I would be willing to go and fight for.

FREED: Former Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean has also been telling student audiences around the country that a vote for Mr. Bush is a vote for the draft.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I would have to be a conscientious objector.

FREED: And Rock the Vote, an organization that tries to get young people to the polls, is using the issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: The draft, one of the many issues that could be decided this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREED (on camera): So on a scale of one to 10, with 10 being the highest, how much credence do you give this rumor about a draft?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say I would give it a three.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, the same, 2.5, three-ish.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably close to zero.

FREED (voice-over): And in his case, Duncan Ward (ph) says there's likely a zero chance that he would serve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I'd go to Canada, probably, or, you know, to the Canada of this draft.

FREED: Worried students hope the presidential face-off on their campus this week will further reassure them that their futures won't be colored khaki.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREED: Now, Aaron, students tell us that with all the denials that are out there, they know they probably shouldn't be worrying. But they say they're only human -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, they're that.

Thank you, Jon -- Jonathan Freed in Chicago tonight.

While the Pentagon is insistent there's no need for a draft, there are signs that finding soldiers to enlist is getting harder. Last week, the Pentagon said it would lower enlistment standards, albeit only slightly, to allow some kids who would not have made the cut to get in. Still, that is not a draft.

From the Pentagon tonight, CNN's Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was one of the enduring symbols of the Vietnam War, protesters burning their draft cards. President Bush wouldn't even use the D word in the first presidential debate.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The military will be an all-volunteer Army.

STARR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is more blunt.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It is absolutely false that anyone in this administration is considering reinstating the draft.

STARR: Experts say a draft makes little economic or military sense in today's world. It's costly and inefficient to keep rotating civilians in and out of the military. Draftees never achieve long- term war-fighting skills. Precision weapons reduce the need for boots on the ground.

Experts also say there is no current enemy with a large standing army that could require the U.S. to field a matching ground force. The House Tuesday overwhelmingly defeated a measure to reinstate the draft, a political effort to quash the Internet rumors that a draft is in the works.

Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel, who introduced the legislation, says the country shouldn't turn its back on the concept of shared sacrifice.

REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: If you say it saves money to have poor kids being killed rather than having the general population being involved, I think that's a pretty poor reason to be against the draft.

STARR: Democratic presidential contender, Senator John Kerry, thinks the war in Iraq has opened the door into compulsory service.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've got a back-door draft taking place in America today, people with stop-loss programs where they're told you can't get out of the military, nine out of our 10 active-duty divisions committed to Iraq.

STARR: The Pentagon is convinced it can still recruit enough Americans to military service.

RUMSFELD: We are having no trouble attracting and retaining the people we need.

STARR (on camera): But will the voluntary call to duty last? Or will there again someday be a need to require America's young people to fight the nation's wars?

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So, still ahead, we'll talk about compulsory national service, not just the military, but something.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: So that's the way some places do it.

All right, just, as a given, take for a moment there's no plan for a draft. Take that off the table, all right? Consider a different question: Should there be one? Should every kid at 18 or so give a year or two to the country? Some go to the military. Some go to community work. Every kid goes, so no kid falls behind.

Rob Hollister is dean of Tufts University's College of Citizenship and Public Service. And he joins us now from Boston.

Dean, nice to see you tonight.

How -- is this something that -- I was just looking down that list, Sweden, for example, which doesn't seem to be involved in many wars. Are all these Swedish kids going into the military? Or are they teaching and doing other things, too? Do you know? ROB HOLLISTER, DEAN, COLLEGE OF CITIZENSHIP AND PUBLIC SERVICE, TUFTS UNIVERSITY: It's a mix, as it would be here in the U.S.

I think the alternative that you lay out of what in, effect, Aaron, would be a new kind of draft is not only a good idea. It's also a practical idea. And it's an idea that the majority of Americans will support.

BROWN: Do you really think a majority of Americans will support it? Because I think you would probably have trouble finding 10 politicians to stand up for it.

HOLLISTER: Well, a couple years ago, there was a careful national poll that asked that question directly: Should we require all young people to perform some form of national service with a choice, either military service or civilian service? And the proportion saying yes was two-thirds.

BROWN: As you think about this, is it a given in your mind that if a kid goes, makes the choice to join the Marines, he or she, for example, gets a bit more money or a few more benefits than the kid who decides to teach English or whatever?

HOLLISTER: You know, I think that's an interesting question. I think there's all kinds of variations on the theme, a lot of significant options and details. But I'm confident that those are ones that we could work out.

BROWN: The students at your University, do you think they would -- posing the question to them, would they be willing to do it?

HOLLISTER: I think, without question, yes. And, in fact, I think one of the best sources of evidence about the appetite, about the willingness of young people to serve, if given high-quality, broad array of choices of ways to serve, one of the best sources of evidence are the deans of undergraduate admissions at colleges across the country.

If you were to talk, for example, to Lee Coffin, the dean of undergraduate admissions at Tufts University, his answer to your question would be the same as mine. And he would point to the very clear evidence in the thousands of admissions applications that we read carefully each year that have shown over the last 12 or 15 years a very clear rise in the proportion of young people who already have done significant community service and who are expecting that to be part of their college experience and beyond.

BROWN: About half-a-minute. Is it affordable?

HOLLISTER: It would cost. But the cost would -- the benefits of that expense would be extraordinary both in terms of giving us the increased number of young people that we need in the military, but our urgent need in society for much larger numbers of people to help tackle our most critical community problems.

BROWN: I just hope this begins a conversation. It's an interesting one. Thanks for being with us tonight, Dean. Thank you very much.

HOLLISTER: Great. Glad to be with you.

BROWN: Thank you. I'm not sure my 15-year-old right now thinks that's a brilliant idea. But what the heck.

Ahead on the program, the moderator of the third presidential debate, a man who's been where it's been happening when it's been happening for the better part of a half-a-century. We're pleased to welcome Bob Schieffer of CBS News.

And then, at the end of the hour, the rooster crows and we're pleased to welcome the paper boy. Morning papers, because this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There was a moment during our afternoon staff meeting today we'll call the George Herman. We were trying to remember the various hosts of "Face the Nation" before Bob Schieffer. And hence the name George Herman was put on the table. We suspect, sadly, few remember Mr. Herman. But everybody knows Mr. Schieffer.

For him, "Face the Nation" is one of many accomplishments in a distinguished career at CBS news. Next, he'll be moderating the final presidential debate out in Tempe. And the latest is another book as well, "Face the Nation: My Favorite Stories from the First 50 Years of the Award-Winning Broadcast."

Pleased to see him with us tonight. He has patiently waited.

Nice to see you. Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER, CBS NEWS: Thank you.

BROWN: Are you nervous about the debate? That's one of those no-win deals, I think.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHIEFFER: Yes.

I mean, I don't know that I'm nervous about it. But I'm really up for it.

BROWN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: I think I would be excited about this debate even if I were not going to be the moderator. I'm really anxious to see what these two men are going to have to say. These debates have really become part of the process and I think the best parts of the campaign.

BROWN: I agree. They've been quite good in this campaign. They've been quite good.

SCHIEFFER: Yes. I mean, nobody says, oh, I have got to go home to watch that commercial about George Bush or about John Kerry.

BROWN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: But people are really finding the time to set aside a time to sit down and watch these debates.

And anything we can do now to make our campaigns more exciting and more interesting and more spontaneous I think it's good for the whole process. And it's good for all of us.

BROWN: You're a moderator and that may limit how you can answer this question or others. But do you think the campaign has essentially been played in too narrow a range, that, basically, they have focus-grouped, focus-tested a series of sound bites and you could ask them anything and they're going to say what they have tested?

SCHIEFFER: You get that little recorded announcement that they all have in their heads, yes.

BROWN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: Everything, business, education, even journalism, we're all so sophisticated now in how we use the media.

And when I came to Washington in 1969 to go to work for CBS, most congressmen still didn't even have press secretaries in those days. Now they've all got these media trainers and coaches. So it's pretty hard to get past that recorded announcement. But, when you can, that's usually when you make some news.

BROWN: There's one more debate question, a quick one. Do you know now, as we sit here, what your first question is? I won't ask you to tell me.

SCHIEFFER: No, I don't. I don't know what it is and because I don't know what's going to happen in the Friday debate. I'll be listening very closely to see if they leave something on the table that I should follow up on.

BROWN: Let's talk about "Face the Nation," the Sunday talk shows. This came up in -- I did a talk the other day in Minneapolis. Someone asked me about them.

Their audiences are not enormous, but their influence is. Why is that?

SCHIEFFER: Well, they really have become a part of what goes on in Washington. Oftentimes on "Face the Nation," "Meet the Press," what we talk about on Sundays is what Washington chews over for the rest of the week.

They're what the super-columnists were when I came to Washington.

BROWN: The super-columnists would be like Scotty Reston.

SCHIEFFER: It would be like Scotty Reston, the Alsop brothers. People used to float these ideas in those columns. Now they just come on the Sunday shows.

BROWN: Do you ever worry that they're using the "Face the Nation"s and the "Meet the Press"es.

SCHIEFFER: Oh, I think they do.

BROWN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: But that's part of what we do.

BROWN: We use them. They use us.

SCHIEFFER: When the television networks give the president time to make a speech, they're using the networks. But that's probably a good thing.

So, you know, you don't just hand it over to them. But I think it is good. Sunday mornings are the last place where you really can have extended debate on television and talk about things.

BROWN: This is a great trivia question, I think. Who was the first guest in the history of "Face the Nation"?

SCHIEFFER: It was Joe McCarthy. And it was on the Sunday before the Senate took up the censure resolution against him.

BROWN: It is -- I'll say it's nice to see you, but that understates it. It's really a privilege to have you on the program.

SCHIEFFER: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Best of luck to you out there in Tempe. You know, that's what we think of as the Jim Lehrer job. So, you get a whack at it. My friend Charlie Gibson gets a whack at it.

Congratulations and best of luck to you.

SCHIEFFER: Thank you very much, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

SCHIEFFER: It's nice of you to have me.

BROWN: Good of you to be here.

We'll do morning papers -- unless you want to stay around and do morning papers.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHIEFFER: OK.

BROWN: After the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. I'm actually chuckling. I don't think of myself as a chuckler.

But I'm chuckling because "The Washington Times" I think headlined this story kind of funny to me. "The Washington Times." This is their headline on the WMD story today, got it? "Saddam Works Secretly on WMDs." Oh, by the way, no trace of weapons found. Oh, come on, you guys. Maybe that's backwards, right? Isn't the lead of that story that he didn't have the weapons? Well, not to "The Times." And it's their paper. And they get to decide. "Bush Slams Kerry Plan to Retreat. President Sharpens Assault Before Debate" is the other big story on the front page of "The Washington Times." I just love that.

"Free at Last," this is a pretty good story in "The San Antonio" -- it's a very good story -- "San Antonio Express-News." "Released After 17 Years on Texas Death Row, Willis Finally Gets to Embrace His Wife." Can you imagine that, being on death row -- well, of course you can't. I mean, who can imagine such an awful thing. "Ethics Panel Rips DeLay Again."

We met a woman last week in L.A. whose father is on death row in Florida. I need to find out more about that.

"Philadelphia Inquirer." "Inspector: Iraq Had No Stockpiles." To my way of thinking, that's the right lead. You got to get into all the other things, but in terms of the headline, that's it. Down at the bottom here, "Satellite Radio Hires Shock Jock Stern." That would be Howard Stern. Satellite radio is sort of what cable was 20 years ago or 25 years ago. They need content. Howard Stern is content. So they went out and got him, for a lot of dough, I'll bet.

Thirty seconds. That's what I was thinking, too.

"The Detroit News." "More Firms Offer Same-Sex Benefits," a major story. "Smaller Companies Join Trend, Provide Medical Coverage." That's a good story. I never understand why other people get all cranked about that. When I worked at ABC, somebody got cranked at Disney for doing that. I never understood that.

"Chicago Sun-Times." This is a local scandal. "Two More Indicted in Hired Truck Scandal." There's always seems to be some scandal or another in Chicago. By the way, the weather in Chicago tomorrow...

(CHIMES)

BROWN: Can you do that again?

(CHIMES)

BROWN: Thank you.

"Sun kiss" is the weather. We'll take a break and wrap it up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Do me a favor. Watch "AMERICAN MORNING" 7:00 Eastern time tomorrow. They have got three hours of good stuff.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you.

We're back here tomorrow at -- tomorrow's normal, right? -- 10:00 Eastern time. This week is sort of crazy -- 10:00 Eastern time, we'll see you then.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 6, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening, again. Iraq is the connective tissue that holds the program together tonight. In much of what we do, it is there. It is there in reports of Sadr City, where the fighting and the dying goes on. It is there in the words of the former administrator of Iraq, Paul Bremer who said one thing then and says another thing now about troops on the ground. It is there in the unstoppable persistent rumor that Iraq and whatever comes after Iraq, will lead to a return of a draft.
That's what this is, a rumor. There are no facts to support it. No plans to implement it. No political will to fight for it. But it won't go away. Students think about it, fear it. A woman, a mom who was a guest on this program last week, worries about it. She did then. She has two young sons. We'll look at why that is tonight and ask one more question about it -- not whether there will be one, but why shouldn't there be one? Why shouldn't every kid, and we mean every, serve the country in one way or another for a year or two?

Every kid. Rich kids, poor kids, black, white, brown kids. Would that really be such an awful idea? No politician will broach it, of course. It involves sacrifice, which says less about the value of the idea than it does about the state of politics in the country today. But for now, the war trumps all. CNN's Brent Sadler starts the whip, in Baghdad. Brent, a headline tonight.

BRENT SADLER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Thanks, Aaron. Militants in Sadr City, a teeming slum. Around 2 million people on Baghdad's city limits, could lay down weapons in a new initiative after weeks of deadly clashes and U.S. air strikes.

BROWN: Brent, thank you. Get back to you at the top tonight.

On to Chicago and those draft rumors. Jonathan Freed worked part of the story today, Jon, a headline.

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president denies it. The House of Representatives just voted against it. But young people in this country are still worried about a military draft.

BROWN: Jon, thank you.

Afghanistan next. The election's coming, violence, too. CNN's Christiane Amanpour is there. Christiane, a headline.

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the campaign has ended. But on the last day of campaigning, an assassination attempt against one of the candidates. He survived. But this violence is worrying ahead of Saturday's election.

BROWN: Christiane, thank you.

And finally, Washington. More headaches for one of the most powerful men in Congress. CNN's Ed Henry with that. Ed, a headline.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the House Ethics Committee has hit House Majority Leader Tom Delay with the second and third public admonishment in one week, an extraordinary reprimand. Aaron.

BROWN: Ed, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest of you in a moment.

Also coming up on the program tonight, two days before the second presidential debate and 27 days before the election. Questions about the run up to Iraq took center stage again. And we touched on it at the top. We'll expand our discussion on the draft to cover the broader question of all forms of national service. Other countries do it and at the end, morning papers. Of course, the rooster crows. All that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight as we often do with the war. Along with more of the same, there are signs too of progress along a very tricky front. Even as the shooting goes on in Sadr City, Muqtada al Sadr, the cleric, the militia leader and the hero to many, has begun talking about a cease-fire. From Baghdad tonight, CNN's Brent Sadler.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: His outlawed Mehdi army militia has battled Iraqi and U.S. troops for months. Muqtada al Sadr, political outcast, renegade Shia Muslim cleric, making moves that could end deadly clashes in Baghdad's slum district of Sadr City, home to around one-tenth of Iraq's entire population. For al Sadr, possible entry into mainstream politics, one day, if loyal militants disarm. Conditional first, they say, on a cease-fire, ending U.S. air strikes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): Secondly, that Sadr followers will turn in their weapons in exchange for cash payments. Thirdly, immunity from prosecution for most of the cleric's followers. And fourth, release of detainees.

SADLER: No to an immediate cease fire, says the government of interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. Weapons first, but yes to amnesty for many if the initiative holds.

AYAD ALLAWI, IRAQI INTERIM PRIME MINISTER: They will respect and abide by the rule of law in the city. They will welcome the police to go back on the streets of the city.

SADLER: Replacing the chaotic control of al Sadr militiamen. In the past month, U.S. warplanes have pounded Mehdi Army fighters here, sparking growing unrest, claim Iraqi officials among embattled and impoverished Shia Muslims in this densely-populated neighborhood of some 2 million people. Senior Iraqi government officials concede that a not so subtle blend of U.S. led military fire power and Iraqi dialogue should break the violent deadlock in Sadr City. A vital proving ground for joint Iraqi/U.S. strategy, to overcome insurgents in other rebel strong holds with intensifying offensives on both the political and military fronts.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SADLER: If a smooth surrender of weapons goes ahead anytime soon in Sadr City, it could give Iraq's interim government leverage to make it work elsewhere. But the big nut to crack is still Fallujah, west of Baghdad and there is no sign so far that these sort of tactics are having much positive effect there. Aaron?

BROWN: That's a whole set of different characters in Fallujah. As briefly as you can, is this the early stage of a negotiation?

SADLER: It's coming to the end of a long, protracted, detailed negotiation. If it works, say U.S. and Iraqi officials on the ground here, it could be a breakthrough.

BROWN: Brent, thank you very much. Brent Sadler in Baghdad tonight.

With the war in Iraq dominating the presidential campaign and the election itself less than a month away now, the top U.S. arms inspector today delivered his long-awaited and unsurprising verdict. The report of the Iraqi survey group is more than 1,000 pages. But it's boils down to this.

Contrary to the prewar statements by the president and his advisers, contrary it seems to the intelligence provided to them and to Congress, contrary to what much of the world seems to believe, Saddam Hussein did not have chemical and biological weapons when the war began and his nuclear capabilities were deteriorating, not advancing. Those are facts. The opinion part is more complicated. Here's CNN's David Ensor.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The careful analyst hired by the CIA to lead the search for weapons of mass destruction found himself in the glare of TV lights with his words parsed by both parties in this election year. His key finding, giving ammunition to Democrats, who charge the president went to war over stockpiles of weapons that were not there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES DUELFER, CIA IRAQ WEAPONS INSPECTOR: It is my judgment that the contained stocks do not exist.

ENSOR: Charles Duelfer said his team has found no weapons, does not expect them to be found and no evidence of any meaningful chemical, biological or nuclear weapons programs activity since the mid 1990s. That said, Duelfer said Saddam Hussein himself, now a prisoner, has admitted he wanted to keep whatever weapons he could, given U.N. sanctions.

SEN. JOHN McCAIN (R) ARIZONA: Is there any doubt in your mind, that if Saddam Hussein were in power today and there were no restrictions or sanctions placed on him, that he would be attempting to acquire weapons of mass destruction, Mr. Duelfer?

DUELFER: To me, I think that's quite clear.

ENSOR: Still, Duelfer's Iraq survey group has spent $900 million, thus far, said one senator, who questioned the point of it all.

SEN. EDWARD KENNEDY (D) MASSACHUSETTS: Why does the search keep going on and on and on and aren't we at the point where we have to admit the stockpiles don't exist? And then what's obviously become a wild goose chase.

DUELFER: You say wild goose chase. We've had a couple people die. We've had a couple people wounded. To tell them they've been involved in a wild goose chase, to me it's not really what we're doing. We were meant to find what existed with respect to WMD. We were not tasked to find weapons. We were tasked to find the truth of the program (ph)

ENSOR: White House spokesman Scott McClellan stressed the points in the report favorable to the administration's case, that it says Saddam Hussein retained the intent and capability to return to productions of weapons of mass destruction, that he was working to undermine the U.N. sanctions any way he could. David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Today's report was the late in a series of items calling into question, either the justification for going into Iraq or the execution of what came next -- the failings, if you want to call them that, fall we think into two, broad categories. Things that should have been known, might have been known but weren't and things that were said that might have made a difference but were not said in public.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Paul Bremer arrived to a Baghdad in chaos. If it could be stolen, it was. The looting was rampant. It was that looting, that lawlessness, that was the beginning of the distrust for the army that expected to be greeted as liberators. Now, in two speeches, Bremer says there were not enough soldiers to impose order and that we continue to pay a price for that failure.

In a speech to an insurance group he said this - we paid a big price for not stopping it, the looting, because it established an atmosphere of lawlessness. And he added, never had enough troops on the ground. Two weeks ago, he said this in a speech in Indiana. The one thing that would have improved the situation would have been having more troops in Iraq at the beginning and throughout. And he added, although I raised this issue a number of times with our government, I would have been even more insistent.

So today Bremer says there were not enough troops and that he was telling his bosses that? But what he wasn't doing was telling the American people that. Here is the sound from Bremer that summer.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WOLF BLITZER: Do you need more U.S. troops, more boots on the ground as they say at the Pentagon, in order to get the situation stabilized?

PAUL BREMER: I don't think so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you asked Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld for more American troops?

BREMER: No. I have not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do we need more?

BREMER: I do not believe we do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever been made a request for more troops that's been denied by the military?

BREMER: No. I've never made a request for more troops that's been agreed to. I've never made a request for more troops.

BROWN: It appears those public statements were untrue. And we will simply never know how different the situation might be today, if he had been given the troops he asked for or if he had, at the time, made his concerns public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: All of this, of course, is playing out in a deeply-divided country, during a hotly-contested presidential election arguably, the worst time imaginable excuse me, for serious policy debate. Yet undeniably, a vital one. So, two reports tonight. CNN's Dan Lothian with the Kerry campaign and Suzanne Malveaux, with the president.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Iraq is no diversion. It is the place where civilization is taking a decisive stand against chaos and terror. And we must not waiver.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN CORRESPONDENT: President Bush in the battleground state of Pennsylvania is pursuing an aggressive strategy to portray John Kerry as unfit to lead in the war on terror.

BUSH: The senator would have America bend over backwards to satisfy a handful of governments with agendas different from our own. My opponent's alliance, strength-building strategy. Brush off your best friends. Fawn over your critics. And that is no way to gain the respect of the world.

MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush furthered chided Kerry for his 1991 vote against the Persian Gulf war.

BUSH: If that coalition didn't pass his global test, clearly nothing will.

MALVEAUX: At a town hall meeting in Tallahassee, Florida, Vice President Dick Cheney echoed Mr. Bush's serious doubts about Kerry's fitness to be commander in chief.

DICK CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There isn't anything in John Kerry's background, since -- for the last 30 years, that gives you any reason to believe that he would in fact be tough, in terms of prosecuting the war on terror.

MALVEAUX: Previewing his strategy for this Friday's presidential debate, Mr. Bush blasted Kerry as a tax and spend liberal.

BUSH: My opponent and I have a very different view on how to grow our economy. Let me start with taxes. I have a record of reducing them. He has a record of raising them.

MALVEAUX: Mr. Bush will begin preparing for the next debate in earnest in the days ahead. In the meantime, President Bush tried to make light of what many saw as his downfall in the last debate, those grimaces and scowls. Mr. Bush joked that if you heard such inaccuracies, you'd understand why he made such a face. Suzanne Malveaux, CNN, the White House.

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I'm Dan Lothian with the Kerry campaign at this golf resort in Englewood, Colorado, where the senator is working on his debate swing, top aides and advisers, using role playing to prepare him for the town hall-style match up in St. Louis.

MIKE McCURRY, KERRY ADVISER: The stakes are higher now. The expectations are higher. This is an important debate. It's one that's a different format because real Americans are involved, not just reporters.

LOTHIAN: And the campaign is reminding those real people of Kerry's first debate performance last week with this new ad.

CAMPAIGN AD: You've seen the debate where John Kerry was strong and clear.

LOTHIAN: Even as the campaign is focusing on domestic issues, senior adviser Mike McCurry keeps Iraq on the front burner weighing in on the final WMD report which concludes Saddam Hussein had no stockpiles of illicit weapons in Iraq when the U.S. invaded and had not begun any programs to produce them.

McCURRY: This president did not level with the American people about the reasons for going to war. This is a damning report. It's one that will probably dominate a lot of the discussion on foreign policy.

LOTHIAN: Since congratulating his running mate in this highly choreographed post-debate photo op, Kerry has stayed out of sight, leaving Senator Edwards to do the ticket's tough talk. In Florida, Edwards attacked the president's latest blistering speech as misleading and desperate.

SEN. JOHN EDWARDS (D) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You got the same, old, tired ideas, the same old false attacks, the same old tired rhetoric. There are no new ideas. There are no new plans. This president is completely out of touch with reality and it showed again in his speech today.

LOTHIAN (on-camera): Even as the Bush campaign calls those attacks inaccurate, Kerry advisers promise a lively, aggressive posture with less than one month to go, aiming to show, especially those undecided voters a clearer picture of Senator Kerry as commander in chief. Dan Lothian, CNN, Englewood, Colorado.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I think it's going to be lively come Friday.

One other late development out of Washington tonight, how or even if it plays in the campaign, anyone's guess. A third ethical strike, if you will, against Tom Delay, the House majority leader. But not three strikes and you're out. Here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY (voice-over): The ethics panel criticized the Texas Republican for appearing to link political donations to legislative action, in his dealings with West Star energy, a Kansas company. The panel also found Delay improperly used government resources by getting the Federal Aviation Administration to track the movement of Texas Democrats, who fled the state because of a battle over redistricting.

Members of the ethics panel put off action on a third allegation that Delay, through his political action committee, funneled illegal corporate contributions to candidates for state office in Texas. Three people associated with the PAC were indicted last month on money laundering charges. This follows last Thursday's finding that Delay had acted improperly during the high profile vote over the Medicare reform bill.

The Ethics panel found Delay violated a House rule, when he offered a political favor in an effort to get a fellow Republican to switch his vote from no to yes on the prescription drug bill. Democrats are pouncing with one House aide telling CNN quote, three admonishments in a week is pretty serious. He can't say it's partisan, because this is a bipartisan committee.

(END VIDEOTAPE) HENRY: In a prepared statement, Congressman Delay said tonight, the charges were politically motivated, an attempt by Democrats to smear his name. An attorney for the congressman insisted that the three rebukes will have no effect on Delay's political standing and that he will stay on as majority leader. Aaron.

BROWN: Ed, thank you very much. I think there are five Democrats, five Republicans on that committee. Thank you sir. Before we got to break, one more quick item -- we may soon learn publicly, formally, the name of the woman who accused Kobe Bryant, Laker basketball star of rape. A Federal court judge in the Denver area today ruled that the public's interest in an open-court proceeding outweighs her desire to remain anonymous. The 20-year-old woman, suing Mr. Bryant in civil court, Federal court, in Denver.

Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, the politics of the draft. All the reasons for not bringing it back and a few for reviving it or something like it.

In Afghanistan, with the clock running, teaching the voters how to vote, when they often can't read at all. Great firsts. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A world away from the Bush/Kerry race, another election of pivotal importance about to take place. In two days, Afghanistan will for the first time hold a democratic presidential election. Afghanistan is where the war on terror began and continues and what happens this weekend will be seen by many as a measure of what might be possible in Iraq. Getting to this point has not been easy. One of the challenges -- just staying alive until Election Day. Here's CNN's Christiane Amanpour.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AMANPOUR (voice-over): Hamid Karzai has led Afghanistan through its post-Taliban transition. Now, he's asking the people to give him a mandate to vote free and without fear.

HAMID KARZAI (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): if someone comes to you with money and power and says, I have come from Karzai, don't vote for me.

AMANPOUR: Afghans are not used to hearing that. Karzai promises a vote for him will be a vote for continued peace, prosperity and stability. The threat and the violence have been a constant factor throughout this election campaign. Even as Karzai was here at the Kabul stadium, his running mate escaped injury when a bomb exploded by his convoy at a rally in northern Afghanistan.

It's not just the violence, it's the unknown. There are 18 candidates for president to be elected by direct vote. They must get a majority to win outright and avoid a runoff. But that's all double Dutch to most people we talked to. Out in the countryside, we found (INAUDIBLE) and his friend Hamid harvesting their grapes for market. Both cheerfully admit they're illiterate, like 80 percent of the population. And they're confused about who to vote for and how to do it. "God knows who he wants as president" says (INAUDIBLE). I'll go to the voting booth. And if I try to vote for someone that God doesn't want, he'll move my hand to the right box which adds some urgency to the U.N.'s basic democracy lessons.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What a ballot paper is. How to mark a ballot paper, what it means, how to identify the candidates whom you wish to support on the ballot paper.

AMANPOUR: Civic education has been hampered by the violence. 12 election workers have been killed and dozens more injured. Human rights watch says many voters complain of intimidation by warlords and the power of the gun. So, here in Kabul, many say they will vote to end all that.

So that we can have security, welfare and live in peace says Nuria (ph). It's for the happiness of all the Afghan people and all Muslims. Christiane Amanpour, CNN, Kabul, Afghanistan.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: And Christiane joins us now from Afghanistan. Afghanistan is a country changed if not exactly transformed. It still can be very inhospitable to women. The warlords still have a lot of power. How different is it from when you first got there, years ago?

AMANPOUR: Aaron, it's a world of difference, especially here in the north of Afghanistan. I think to sum up, a lot of progress has been made, particularly in the north. But a huge amount has not been done and obviously still needs to be done in the south, as this resurgent Taliban, which has really threatened a lot of the democracy building and civil society building down there and this election on Saturday. And the leaders here complain that not enough money and security was poured into this country at the very beginning. But it's better than it was. That's for sure.

BROWN: Violence a kind of daily concern for everybody at polling stations when they go to vote. Is that the sort of thing they're concerned about?

AMANPOUR: They are concerned about it. Both the U.S., the other international forces here, the Afghan security, such as it is, are bracing for a spike in violence. They're bracing for potential disruption on Saturday at the polls because the Taliban, which as I say has gained a grip and a foothold in the southern part of this country, has declared these elections an enemy of Islam and has declared a threat against all the candidates. So there is an expectation but they're hoping that they can contain it as best as they can and people are determined to go out and vote.

BROWN: I hope they do and I hope they do safely. Anyone who has ever watched these transformations, we saw one in South Africa, marvels at them. Christiane, stay safe, good to talk to you, thank you. Christiane Amanpour tonight. Coming up on the program, an institution absent for more than 30 years but plenty of rumors about it. And the occasion to ask -- should there be a draft? Should all young Americans be asked what they can do for their country? That's coming up.

Later, the end, morning papers from New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Someone asked me the other day, how long we were going to continue to do that. I said forever. We're devoting a large part of the program tonight to the draft which might strike you as odd, seeing as it was banished more than 30 years ago and virtually nobody in or out of government wants to revive it. Not the Congress, not the Pentagon, not the president, not Senator Kerry though he has hinted that President Bush might and yet, as the parallels between Iraq and Vietnam have grown, so too have the jitters.

In a moment, we'll deal with how this got going and whether some kind of national service, such as military service, might not be a good thing.

We start out looking at how we got here. The draft in this country was born during the Civil War, along with the draft riots. As America entered World War I, nearly three million American men were drafted into service. In 1940, before the beginning of World War II, the president, Franklin Roosevelt, signed the Selective Training and Service Act, which created the country's first peacetime draft. That draft allowed the United States to rapidly deploy 10 million conscripts in World War II.

In the Korean War, about 1.5 million men were drafted. And in Vietnam, the number of draftees reached almost two million, but many of the rich and well-to-do and well-connected managed to avoid it. In 1973, the draft ended and the United States converted to an all- volunteer Army. it remains an all-volunteer military today.

Inside the beltway, the idea of starting up a draft again is radioactive. Outside the beltway, fueled by those in politics, we suspect, and the unstoppable Internet rumor mill, which can turn nothing into something overnight, it is a different matter. Go to college campuses. We did.

Here's CNN's Jonathan Freed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN FREED, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The commander in chief is coming here to Washington University in Saint Louis on Friday for the second presidential debate. Students are wondering, if President Bush wins a second term, will it mean the return of the military draft?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some people say it's going to be a mass draft. And you're not safe if you're going to be in school.

FREED: And even though Mr. Bush has explicitly denied it...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would be distraught.

FREED (on camera): Would you serve?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I would. I believe that it is part of my duty as an American.

FREED (voice-over): ... the draft rumors, including a widely- circulated unsigned e-mail alleging that a Bush administration could pull the trigger on it next year have been popping up on the Internet and college campuses.

(on camera): Would you serve willingly or would you try to find a way out?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Honestly, I would serve willingly.

FREED (voice-over): Trying to pinpoint the source of a rumor is more an art than a science. But in this case, it's political science, at least partly.

In 2003, Democrats introduced two bills in Congress, hoping to stifle support for the Iraq war by calling for a draft.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would not be OK with it at all. I don't feel like the current war is something that I would be willing to go and fight for.

FREED: Former Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean has also been telling student audiences around the country that a vote for Mr. Bush is a vote for the draft.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think I would have to be a conscientious objector.

FREED: And Rock the Vote, an organization that tries to get young people to the polls, is using the issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, AD)

NARRATOR: The draft, one of the many issues that could be decided this election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FREED (on camera): So on a scale of one to 10, with 10 being the highest, how much credence do you give this rumor about a draft?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say I would give it a three.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, the same, 2.5, three-ish.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Two. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably close to zero.

FREED (voice-over): And in his case, Duncan Ward (ph) says there's likely a zero chance that he would serve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I'd go to Canada, probably, or, you know, to the Canada of this draft.

FREED: Worried students hope the presidential face-off on their campus this week will further reassure them that their futures won't be colored khaki.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREED: Now, Aaron, students tell us that with all the denials that are out there, they know they probably shouldn't be worrying. But they say they're only human -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, they're that.

Thank you, Jon -- Jonathan Freed in Chicago tonight.

While the Pentagon is insistent there's no need for a draft, there are signs that finding soldiers to enlist is getting harder. Last week, the Pentagon said it would lower enlistment standards, albeit only slightly, to allow some kids who would not have made the cut to get in. Still, that is not a draft.

From the Pentagon tonight, CNN's Barbara Starr.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was one of the enduring symbols of the Vietnam War, protesters burning their draft cards. President Bush wouldn't even use the D word in the first presidential debate.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The military will be an all-volunteer Army.

STARR: Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld is more blunt.

DONALD RUMSFELD, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: It is absolutely false that anyone in this administration is considering reinstating the draft.

STARR: Experts say a draft makes little economic or military sense in today's world. It's costly and inefficient to keep rotating civilians in and out of the military. Draftees never achieve long- term war-fighting skills. Precision weapons reduce the need for boots on the ground.

Experts also say there is no current enemy with a large standing army that could require the U.S. to field a matching ground force. The House Tuesday overwhelmingly defeated a measure to reinstate the draft, a political effort to quash the Internet rumors that a draft is in the works.

Democratic Congressman Charles Rangel, who introduced the legislation, says the country shouldn't turn its back on the concept of shared sacrifice.

REP. CHARLES RANGEL (D), NEW YORK: If you say it saves money to have poor kids being killed rather than having the general population being involved, I think that's a pretty poor reason to be against the draft.

STARR: Democratic presidential contender, Senator John Kerry, thinks the war in Iraq has opened the door into compulsory service.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D-MA), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've got a back-door draft taking place in America today, people with stop-loss programs where they're told you can't get out of the military, nine out of our 10 active-duty divisions committed to Iraq.

STARR: The Pentagon is convinced it can still recruit enough Americans to military service.

RUMSFELD: We are having no trouble attracting and retaining the people we need.

STARR (on camera): But will the voluntary call to duty last? Or will there again someday be a need to require America's young people to fight the nation's wars?

Barbara Starr, CNN, the Pentagon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So, still ahead, we'll talk about compulsory national service, not just the military, but something.

Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: So that's the way some places do it.

All right, just, as a given, take for a moment there's no plan for a draft. Take that off the table, all right? Consider a different question: Should there be one? Should every kid at 18 or so give a year or two to the country? Some go to the military. Some go to community work. Every kid goes, so no kid falls behind.

Rob Hollister is dean of Tufts University's College of Citizenship and Public Service. And he joins us now from Boston.

Dean, nice to see you tonight.

How -- is this something that -- I was just looking down that list, Sweden, for example, which doesn't seem to be involved in many wars. Are all these Swedish kids going into the military? Or are they teaching and doing other things, too? Do you know? ROB HOLLISTER, DEAN, COLLEGE OF CITIZENSHIP AND PUBLIC SERVICE, TUFTS UNIVERSITY: It's a mix, as it would be here in the U.S.

I think the alternative that you lay out of what in, effect, Aaron, would be a new kind of draft is not only a good idea. It's also a practical idea. And it's an idea that the majority of Americans will support.

BROWN: Do you really think a majority of Americans will support it? Because I think you would probably have trouble finding 10 politicians to stand up for it.

HOLLISTER: Well, a couple years ago, there was a careful national poll that asked that question directly: Should we require all young people to perform some form of national service with a choice, either military service or civilian service? And the proportion saying yes was two-thirds.

BROWN: As you think about this, is it a given in your mind that if a kid goes, makes the choice to join the Marines, he or she, for example, gets a bit more money or a few more benefits than the kid who decides to teach English or whatever?

HOLLISTER: You know, I think that's an interesting question. I think there's all kinds of variations on the theme, a lot of significant options and details. But I'm confident that those are ones that we could work out.

BROWN: The students at your University, do you think they would -- posing the question to them, would they be willing to do it?

HOLLISTER: I think, without question, yes. And, in fact, I think one of the best sources of evidence about the appetite, about the willingness of young people to serve, if given high-quality, broad array of choices of ways to serve, one of the best sources of evidence are the deans of undergraduate admissions at colleges across the country.

If you were to talk, for example, to Lee Coffin, the dean of undergraduate admissions at Tufts University, his answer to your question would be the same as mine. And he would point to the very clear evidence in the thousands of admissions applications that we read carefully each year that have shown over the last 12 or 15 years a very clear rise in the proportion of young people who already have done significant community service and who are expecting that to be part of their college experience and beyond.

BROWN: About half-a-minute. Is it affordable?

HOLLISTER: It would cost. But the cost would -- the benefits of that expense would be extraordinary both in terms of giving us the increased number of young people that we need in the military, but our urgent need in society for much larger numbers of people to help tackle our most critical community problems.

BROWN: I just hope this begins a conversation. It's an interesting one. Thanks for being with us tonight, Dean. Thank you very much.

HOLLISTER: Great. Glad to be with you.

BROWN: Thank you. I'm not sure my 15-year-old right now thinks that's a brilliant idea. But what the heck.

Ahead on the program, the moderator of the third presidential debate, a man who's been where it's been happening when it's been happening for the better part of a half-a-century. We're pleased to welcome Bob Schieffer of CBS News.

And then, at the end of the hour, the rooster crows and we're pleased to welcome the paper boy. Morning papers, because this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: There was a moment during our afternoon staff meeting today we'll call the George Herman. We were trying to remember the various hosts of "Face the Nation" before Bob Schieffer. And hence the name George Herman was put on the table. We suspect, sadly, few remember Mr. Herman. But everybody knows Mr. Schieffer.

For him, "Face the Nation" is one of many accomplishments in a distinguished career at CBS news. Next, he'll be moderating the final presidential debate out in Tempe. And the latest is another book as well, "Face the Nation: My Favorite Stories from the First 50 Years of the Award-Winning Broadcast."

Pleased to see him with us tonight. He has patiently waited.

Nice to see you. Thank you.

BOB SCHIEFFER, CBS NEWS: Thank you.

BROWN: Are you nervous about the debate? That's one of those no-win deals, I think.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHIEFFER: Yes.

I mean, I don't know that I'm nervous about it. But I'm really up for it.

BROWN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: I think I would be excited about this debate even if I were not going to be the moderator. I'm really anxious to see what these two men are going to have to say. These debates have really become part of the process and I think the best parts of the campaign.

BROWN: I agree. They've been quite good in this campaign. They've been quite good.

SCHIEFFER: Yes. I mean, nobody says, oh, I have got to go home to watch that commercial about George Bush or about John Kerry.

BROWN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: But people are really finding the time to set aside a time to sit down and watch these debates.

And anything we can do now to make our campaigns more exciting and more interesting and more spontaneous I think it's good for the whole process. And it's good for all of us.

BROWN: You're a moderator and that may limit how you can answer this question or others. But do you think the campaign has essentially been played in too narrow a range, that, basically, they have focus-grouped, focus-tested a series of sound bites and you could ask them anything and they're going to say what they have tested?

SCHIEFFER: You get that little recorded announcement that they all have in their heads, yes.

BROWN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: Everything, business, education, even journalism, we're all so sophisticated now in how we use the media.

And when I came to Washington in 1969 to go to work for CBS, most congressmen still didn't even have press secretaries in those days. Now they've all got these media trainers and coaches. So it's pretty hard to get past that recorded announcement. But, when you can, that's usually when you make some news.

BROWN: There's one more debate question, a quick one. Do you know now, as we sit here, what your first question is? I won't ask you to tell me.

SCHIEFFER: No, I don't. I don't know what it is and because I don't know what's going to happen in the Friday debate. I'll be listening very closely to see if they leave something on the table that I should follow up on.

BROWN: Let's talk about "Face the Nation," the Sunday talk shows. This came up in -- I did a talk the other day in Minneapolis. Someone asked me about them.

Their audiences are not enormous, but their influence is. Why is that?

SCHIEFFER: Well, they really have become a part of what goes on in Washington. Oftentimes on "Face the Nation," "Meet the Press," what we talk about on Sundays is what Washington chews over for the rest of the week.

They're what the super-columnists were when I came to Washington.

BROWN: The super-columnists would be like Scotty Reston.

SCHIEFFER: It would be like Scotty Reston, the Alsop brothers. People used to float these ideas in those columns. Now they just come on the Sunday shows.

BROWN: Do you ever worry that they're using the "Face the Nation"s and the "Meet the Press"es.

SCHIEFFER: Oh, I think they do.

BROWN: Yes.

SCHIEFFER: But that's part of what we do.

BROWN: We use them. They use us.

SCHIEFFER: When the television networks give the president time to make a speech, they're using the networks. But that's probably a good thing.

So, you know, you don't just hand it over to them. But I think it is good. Sunday mornings are the last place where you really can have extended debate on television and talk about things.

BROWN: This is a great trivia question, I think. Who was the first guest in the history of "Face the Nation"?

SCHIEFFER: It was Joe McCarthy. And it was on the Sunday before the Senate took up the censure resolution against him.

BROWN: It is -- I'll say it's nice to see you, but that understates it. It's really a privilege to have you on the program.

SCHIEFFER: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Best of luck to you out there in Tempe. You know, that's what we think of as the Jim Lehrer job. So, you get a whack at it. My friend Charlie Gibson gets a whack at it.

Congratulations and best of luck to you.

SCHIEFFER: Thank you very much, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

SCHIEFFER: It's nice of you to have me.

BROWN: Good of you to be here.

We'll do morning papers -- unless you want to stay around and do morning papers.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHIEFFER: OK.

BROWN: After the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: OK, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. I'm actually chuckling. I don't think of myself as a chuckler.

But I'm chuckling because "The Washington Times" I think headlined this story kind of funny to me. "The Washington Times." This is their headline on the WMD story today, got it? "Saddam Works Secretly on WMDs." Oh, by the way, no trace of weapons found. Oh, come on, you guys. Maybe that's backwards, right? Isn't the lead of that story that he didn't have the weapons? Well, not to "The Times." And it's their paper. And they get to decide. "Bush Slams Kerry Plan to Retreat. President Sharpens Assault Before Debate" is the other big story on the front page of "The Washington Times." I just love that.

"Free at Last," this is a pretty good story in "The San Antonio" -- it's a very good story -- "San Antonio Express-News." "Released After 17 Years on Texas Death Row, Willis Finally Gets to Embrace His Wife." Can you imagine that, being on death row -- well, of course you can't. I mean, who can imagine such an awful thing. "Ethics Panel Rips DeLay Again."

We met a woman last week in L.A. whose father is on death row in Florida. I need to find out more about that.

"Philadelphia Inquirer." "Inspector: Iraq Had No Stockpiles." To my way of thinking, that's the right lead. You got to get into all the other things, but in terms of the headline, that's it. Down at the bottom here, "Satellite Radio Hires Shock Jock Stern." That would be Howard Stern. Satellite radio is sort of what cable was 20 years ago or 25 years ago. They need content. Howard Stern is content. So they went out and got him, for a lot of dough, I'll bet.

Thirty seconds. That's what I was thinking, too.

"The Detroit News." "More Firms Offer Same-Sex Benefits," a major story. "Smaller Companies Join Trend, Provide Medical Coverage." That's a good story. I never understand why other people get all cranked about that. When I worked at ABC, somebody got cranked at Disney for doing that. I never understood that.

"Chicago Sun-Times." This is a local scandal. "Two More Indicted in Hired Truck Scandal." There's always seems to be some scandal or another in Chicago. By the way, the weather in Chicago tomorrow...

(CHIMES)

BROWN: Can you do that again?

(CHIMES)

BROWN: Thank you.

"Sun kiss" is the weather. We'll take a break and wrap it up. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Do me a favor. Watch "AMERICAN MORNING" 7:00 Eastern time tomorrow. They have got three hours of good stuff.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you.

We're back here tomorrow at -- tomorrow's normal, right? -- 10:00 Eastern time. This week is sort of crazy -- 10:00 Eastern time, we'll see you then.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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