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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

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Aired October 14, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. Capitalism is a wonderful thing. I am a beneficiary and a believer. That said, I'm having a bit of problem with capitalism tonight. The "Washington Post" reports today some companies with flu vaccine have jacked up the price as much as 10 times the normal rate because of the shortage of the vaccine. The "Post" reports as soon as it came out that there was contamination at one of the two companies that made the vaccine, suppliers reset prices skyward. The CEO of one company telling the "Post," hey, it's a commodity although some in the medical business don't want to admit that.
A salesman put it a bit more crassly in an e-mail. He wrote hospital beds are filling up and the little darlings are going back to school coughing up their diseases and we can get whatever the market will bear. The company said the e-mail was a joke. I'm sure you see the humor there too.

I suppose they have the right to sell at whatever price people will pay more or less. That is capitalism and I really do believe, but conscience ought to count as well and I wonder what happened to theirs.

The whip begins tonight at the Pentagon. The latest on American forces on the move in the Sunni triangle. CNN's Jamie McIntyre has the watch tonight. So Jamie, a headline from you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, it's the biggest offensive yet involving ground troops around Fallujah. Hundreds of U.S. and some Iraqi forces as well, but it's not yet the final battle for Fallujah. The Pentagon says bigger things are to come.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. On to the presidential campaign, the day after the night before, the beginning of the end, however you want to put it, first the president's day and our senior White House correspondent John King in Oregon tonight. John, a headline.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president's campaign today acknowledged the obvious, John Kerry benefited from the series of three debates but the president says now that the spinners and the pundits have had their way, the American people get theirs and he's confident to victory. Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you. Finally Senator Kerry's day. CNN's Candy Crowley in Des Moines, Iowa tonight. Candy, the headline from there.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, 18 days and two words from the Kerry campaign: Middle class.

BROWN: Candy, thank you, a busy day for you an all of us. We'll get back to you in a few moments. Also coming up on the program tonight the confessions of a holy warrior.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Any family that's really, you know, committed to this cause, it would be a pride for them to have a son that would become a suicide bomber.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: A young man recruited in Canada, trained in Afghanistan and now talking to the CIA.

Also tonight, Bill O'Reilly finds himself in a bit of a mess. Allegations of crude sexual harassment levied against cable's biggest star. We'll look at the case, the law and the man and be fair and balanced as we always are.

And top it off with morning papers of course. My goodness, the rooster can't even print some of what's in the lawsuit. All that and more in the hour ahead. We begin tonight in Iraq. The day began with two explosions in the green zone and draws to a close with combat operations under way in one of the country's toughest no-go zones.

Suicide bombers ruling the day. American forces on the move tonight under cover of darkness around the city of Fallujah. Two sides of the war in Iraq. Once again from the Pentagon tonight, we begin with CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): The ground assault was preceded by another round of punishing air strikes aimed at targets in Fallujah believed to be associated with the terrorist network of Abu Musab Zarqawi. Among the targets, safe houses, illegal checkpoints and weapons storage areas. Then after nightfall, hundreds of U.S. marines, army soldiers and Iraqi special forces moved against other objectives in and around the city, according to a marine with one of the units.

1ST LT. LYLE GILBERT, 1ST MARINE EXPEDITIONARY UNIT: The troops crossed the line of departure. We had artillery fire (INAUDIBLE) fire going out. Aircraft have been moving through the area all day, helicopters providing transport. It's been a pretty uncomfortable time. We have two battalions out there in maneuver right now dealing with the anti-Iraqi forces.

MCINTYRE: Pentagon officials say this is not the final battle for control of Fallujah which has been under the control of insurgents for months. Sources say the objectives were set after intelligence indicated that terrorists in Fallujah were planning to step up attacks against U.S. forces and the Iraqi people during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. GILBERT: It's a significant effort and when all is said and done, it's going to be a lot less of the anti-Iraqi forces than we're dealing with right now.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. insists the new Iraqi government is calling the shots. Thursday a delegation from Fallujah broke off peace talks with the government over an ultimatum issued by Iraqi Prime Minister Allawi that Zarqawi be handed over.

GILBERT: We've been looking forward to this for a long time.

MCINTYRE: The marines have been anxious to retake Fallujah ever since their April offensive was aborted in favor of a political settlement that ultimately failed to restore security and left Fallujah a base of operations for the insurgents.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: A short time ago, the U.S. military in Iraq said that two more air strikes had been conducted in the early hours of Friday morning Iraq time, but Pentagon officials still say this is not the big Fallujah offensive, although it could turn into something more depending on how the insurgents react. Part of the idea of this mission was to probe the insurgent forces, send them a message and see how they react. Aaron?

BROWN: Just tell me on some basic military 101 here, how many American marines, if we know, are in there? How does it compare to the number in the spring?

MCINTYRE: This, again, was a limited operation. It involved two battalions, one from the army, one from the marines. That's several hundred each. That's probably about 600 soldiers plus an unspecified number of Iraqi forces who are also there. This was a very large operation, but it's not the kind of force you'd need to mount in order to retake the city. Compared to the spring, that was an all-out offensive and that was significantly more. That was in the thousands of marines.

BROWN: Got it Jamie. Thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

This operation began not long after Abu Musab al Zarqawi's group claimed responsibility for a pair of bombings inside Baghdad's heavily guarded green zone, which as you know is home to the American embassy in Iraq and also to the Iraqi government. Two explosions, one at a sidewalk cafe, another at a shopping bazaar. At least five are believed to have died, including three American security contractors. Another American is missing and presumed dead. Troops quickly put the green zone on lock down and an investigation under way into how the bombers managed to breach the security in this tightly guarded area in the first place.

In the presidential election where Iraq figures so heavily, the candidates have turned a crucial corner. The debates now behind them, President Bush and Senator Kerry have just 2 1/2 weeks to close the deal with voters. Now it is about time, money and message and once the message is defined, staying on the message. The Kerry side found itself a bit thrown off message today in a skirmish over the vice president's lesbian daughter Mary and Kerry's comments about her last night. Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY (voice-over): Las Vegas and all those jabs from the president got John Kerry thinking about Mohammad Ali.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Foreman threw punch after punch and Ali kind of stepped back and said to Foreman during this to George Foreman. He said, George, is that all you've got?

CROWLEY: No knockout punches in the three debates but the Kerry campaign believes he won all of them on point. So there are questions on that point about sexual orientation.

KERRY: I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was.

CROWLEY: Dick and Lynne Cheney, who rarely talk publicly about their daughter's sexuality, called Kerry's words out of line, a cheap and tawdry political trick. Something stung because Kerry put out a written statement explaining he was trying to say something positive about how families deal with the issue. Elizabeth Edwards may not have helped when she weighed in.

ELIZABETH EDWARDS: It makes me really sad that that's Lynne's response. I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences, that I'm certain makes her daughter uncomfortable and that makes me very sad on a personal level.

CROWLEY: No word from the low-key Mary Cheney on how she actually feels. Meanwhile, back on the trail, John Kerry was at an AARP meeting talking to seniors, people who voted before voting was cool, looking for a knockout punch as the bell four the final round sounds.

KERRY: And so I say to you, Mr. President, after four years of lost jobs, after four years of families losing health coverage, after four years of falling incomes, is that all you've got? After four years of rising gas prices, rising health care costs and squeezed families, is that all you've got?

CROWLEY: The campaign belongs to the nimble now. Kerry strategists will meet over the weekend to plot the day by day game of political chess, where to send the candidate and where to spend the money.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: In the way campaigns have a habit of doing, this one has come full circle now. We are in Des Moines, Iowa, and it looks like old home week. John Kerry, Teresa Heinz Kerry, John Edwards and Elizabeth Edwards all here in Iowa where it began for both of them. Aaron?

BROWN: The polls out of Iowa that I've seen have the Kerry side a bit behind there. An important state for them to win?

CROWLEY: Absolutely. I mean if you just look at -- if you take 2000, when I -- I remember it was starting out with this campaign two years ago. They said we have to win all the Al Gore states and one more, which sounded simple enough, except for this is an Al Gore state. So they have to win Iowa if that strategy still is in play. There are other places you know Aaron, that they're doing well where George Bush won in 2000, but this is close enough that in fact we're returning here probably next week.

BROWN: I mean, it's sort of logical they need that kind of upper Midwest corridor, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa and they're working it pretty hard. Candy, thank you.

BROWN: Tonight the candidates remain in a statistical dead heat nationally. State by state is where it counts of course. That's a bit harder to read. Both sides claim victory in last night's final debate. That's not surprising. The Bush campaign dismisses the results of polls suggesting otherwise, not surprising either. That is the spin, but there are clear signs as well that Mr. Bush and his advisers are taking nothing for granted 2 1/2 weeks out. Our senior White House correspondent tonight, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): In Nevada, a rousing beginning of the end game. Like ability and trust, key themes for the president's closing appeal to a divided electorate.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They know my blunt way of speaking. I get that from mom. They know I sometimes mangle the English language. I get that from dad. America's also knows I tell you exactly what I'm going to do and I keep my word.

KING: Stressing leadership will be another constant in the 19 day sprint. The Bush campaign highlighted Senator Kerry's wait and see approach when asked about Social Security reform in the final debate, suggesting the Democrat lacks the skills and the courage to confront tough issues.

BUSH: The senator's record is 20 years of out of the mainstream votes with -- without many significant reforms or results.

KING: Optimism can matter in a close race. This rare visit with reporters on Air Force One, Senator John McCain in tow, orchestrated to express nonchalance about all this talk of Kerry momentum and a debate series sweep.

BUSH: I feel great about where we are. There's a lot of enthusiasm for my candidacy.

KING: Yet the Bush campaign chairman acknowledged this reality. The president was in better shape heading into the debates than he is coming out, making a good start to the final push all the more urgent.

SCOTT REED, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Right now the campaign is all about momentum. It looks like the Bush campaign is going to need to get their momentum on the stump as he travels.

KING: Difficult targeting decisions now loom. Two stops in Nevada Thursday. Mr. Bush won last time, but the state leans a bit toward Kerry now.

BUSH: And I want your help.

KING: Then on to Oregon. The Bush campaign has invested heavily to organize here, yet again Senator Kerry now narrowly leads.

REED: It will probably be the last time they'll be heading back out there. They're going to be more focused on the Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida access and the Midwest states.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now in another sign of the electoral chess both campaigns will play in the coming days, the president plans to campaign on Monday in New Jersey on Monday. That state has been reliably Democratic in recent presidential elections. Mr. Bush will go there if for nothing else Aaron to make the Democrats fight harder for it. As of now no plans by the Bush campaign to invest millions of dollars in a New York City media by targeting New Jersey. The campaign well aware every dollar spent on such a long shot is a dollar you can't spend in a battle ground.

BROWN: Aaron, let me ask a question and hope you can hear it. They acknowledge they were in better shape before the series of debates. Why do they think the president lost those debates or lost his lead or lost the momentum, whatever it is they believe he lost?

KING: They acknowledge, somewhat in public and even more expansively in private, that John Kerry stepped over the biggest threshold he had in the debates. He proved to the American people that he could be credible as commander in chief and that he was credible as a president. The Bush campaign still will attack his ideas and attack his positions but they say they acknowledge he did cross that one threshold that Americans, a majority of Americans if you look at the polling, now view him credibly when they're asked the question, can he be commander in chief?

BROWN: John, thank you very much, our senior White House correspondent, John King on the road again tonight.

Some expect this to be a record year for registering new voters. It may also be a banner year for skullduggery. This is where the high school civics world meets political hard ball. In high school civics, registering voters and stopping vote fraud is good in and of itself. In hard ball terms, it only matters to the extent that it helps your candidate or hurts the other guy. So battles are being fought across the country tonight. Here's CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The race to register voters in some states is being clouded by allegations of fraud. In the battleground state of Colorado --

BROWN: We got a problem there. We'll try and get back to that. We've got a number of other things coming up on the program tonight. Of course, the debates are over, the election 2 1/2 weeks away. Jeff Greenfield is back with some advice for the candidates.

A bit later, a story of a marine who loved another marine and convinced his sibling to be a marine only to bury them both. That segment seven tonight. This NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: OK. Now back to where we were before the technical gremlins bit us. Lots of charges of political skullduggery out there. The story reported by CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice-over): The race to register voters in some states is being clouded by allegations of fraud. In the battleground state of Colorado, there's a list of people who have registered multiple times and stacks of forms with bogus names like this one filled out by Jason kills enemy. Colorado's secretary of state Donetta Davidson is fuming and has called for an investigation.

DONETTA DAVIDSON, COLORADO SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't care if the election is close or not. We cannot allow fraud to happen in our state.

LOTHIAN: In southern Nevada, the FBI is looking into allegations that registration forms filled out by Democrats at a private voters outreach office were destroyed and discarded as this ex-worker claims.

ERIC RUSSELL, FORMER VOTER REGISTRATION EMPLOYEE: She grabbed the Democrats. She handed them to her assistant and he ripped them up right in front of us.

LOTHIAN: Republican officials in the state have their doubts but are demanding answers.

BRIAN SCROGGINS, CLARK COUNTY REPUBLICAN PARTY: Obviously, any of these allegations are serious and we're not taking them lightly.

LOTHIAN: In this election battle, locked in a statistical dead heat, allegations are amplified, especially in key battle ground states like Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Colorado. Throw into the mix concerns over new voting technology, confusing ballot changes and not enough poll workers and the results, some fear, could be troubling.

DOUG CHAPIN, DIRECTOR, ELECTIONONLINE.ORG: It's very unlikely that we will get through Election Day without some kind of a problem. LOTHIAN: This government accountability office report indicates the Justice Department has made some progress since the 2000 election in addressing voter irregularities, but it also reveals not enough has been done. Congressman Henry Waxman says the government is not ready for another close election.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D) CALIFORNIA: The Justice Department should have been prepared and maybe still can try to be prepared to stop any irregularities.

LOTHIAN: But in statement, the Justice Department said it has been proactive already, implementing significant changes and that it can better monitor election activities and track voter complaints. From Capitol Hill to the courts, an aggressive effort is under way to make sure every vote is counted without fraud, mistakes or confusion. Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So on this day after the final debate, the logical question to ask is what now? Candy Crowley and John King provided part of the answer in the last section. Circumstances might very well supply the rest. The last three presidential campaigns saw significant movement in just the last two weeks in times a lot less stressful and eventful than these days. So part of the advice to either candidate would have to include a warning to be prepared for the unexpected. As for how else to manage, here's our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): OK. Gentlemen, the face to face jousting is over. We're in the back stretch, the ninth inning, the fourth quarter or whatever other lame sports metaphor you like. So where do you both stand? Senator Kerry, the debates have served you well. The polls, pols and pundits had you on life support in late September. Now you've pulled even and key states that were drifting away from you are coming back.

But while more Americans are now doubting the Iraq war's premise and even more now question its execution, President Bush is still seen as the stronger leader, the one best equipped to lead the war on terror and this line from the last debate.

BUSH: There's a mainstream in American politics and you sit right on the far left bank.

GREENFIELD: That's a two-pronged attack designed to persuade the centrist voter that you're a tax and spend liberal, designed to remind his base that this vote is not just about policy but about fundamental values. And then there is the blunt fact that you're bearing, your language, your public personality is just harder to warm up to than the president's. Your task then is to remind uncommitted voters that this is not a Mr. Congeniality contest, to persuade them to make a basic judgment that whatever the president's personal charms, his judgment and his record do not merit rehiring and that they can be comfortable with you in the oval office.

Meanwhile, your supporters' job is to get all those new voters they registered to the polls. Mr. President, it has been a rough two weeks. The clear lead you had built in the month after your convention began to erode with that first debate performance. And instead of forcing Kerry to defend his electoral turf, you've got problems of your own in Ohio, New Hampshire, Nevada, Colorado and Florida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is the swinging door chad.

GREENFIELD: You remember Florida? Florida looks a little shaky. And neither the latest economic numbers nor the latest news out of Iraq makes it easy to proclaim success in the key issues of this campaign. But the news is not all bad. You are more or less even in the polls and voters still have national security and terror very much on their minds, areas where you run well. Twice as many voters call themselves conservative as liberal which means the tax and spend indictment of John Kerry and his voting record appears to have some potency.

And among those who vote on social issues, guns, gay marriage, abortion, the need for faith-based politics, you are a hero, as much of a hero as Ronald Reagan was. Your task, to revive the central message of the Republican convention that while voters may want change, the dangers lurking out there in the world and the uncertain stances of your opponent make change simply too big a risk to take.

In one sense both of you are facing exactly the same challenge. Since neither of you has yet convinced the electorate that you're the one they want in the oval office, your best chance to win is make sure the public stays focused on the other guy. Jeff Greenfield, CNN, Las Angeles.

BROWN: Some other stories making news around the country today. Film maker Michael Moore is in another fight over his movie "Fahrenheit 9/11." This time he's battling one of the nation's largest providers of pay per view movies. In demand told CNN they are pulling the movie the night before the presidential election. This is pay per view. They would not say why. It was supposed to air as a pay per view event. Mr. Moore says the company caved in to Republican pressure and vows to fight back.

A double dose of problems for people who need a flu shot. Government trying to import doses of the vaccine from two companies that sell it in Canada. I thought we were worried about safety of drugs coming out of Canada. It's little hope this will solve the entire problem or even come close. As we noted at the top tonight, there are reports of price gouging, some hospitals claiming certain distributors are charging them up to $100 a shot. Normally it costs about $20. FDA urging states to prosecute companies that illegally raise prices.

Coming up on the program tonight, let's just call him a major factor in cable television who's having to factor a very big lawsuit into his life. If that isn't enough, if that isn't enough excitement for you, it clearly was for me, morning papers still to come around the world. This is NEWSNIGHT.

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BROWN: Bill O'Reilly had made it his business to take on what he sees as hypocrisy and scandal in others and for Mr. O'Reilly, business has been good, very good. Worth tens and tens of millions of dollars in ad sales to Fox news, not to mention millions to Mr. O'Reilly himself for his program, for his books, for speaking engagements and all the rest including the coffee mugs. But tonight, the spotlight is on him in a way it hasn't been before. A sexual harassment lawsuit detailing truly vulgar conversations with a subordinate and some say he's trying to spin his way out of a no-spin zone. We begin this with CNN's Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bill O'Reilly on the talk show circuit promoting his children's book. Not an easy task when involved in sexual harassment lawsuit and having what O'Reilly calls the worst day of your life.

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: If I have to go down, I'm willing to do it but I got to make a stand.

CARROLL: Making a stand against one of his associate producers Andrea Mackris who alleges he sexually harassed her by making repeatedly sexually explicit remarks.

ANDREA MACKRIS, FOX NEWS ASSOCIATE PRODUCER: Mainly the last time I had spoken to Bill when this inappropriate conversation had happened, the last time, he said it was going to be in person and I felt extremely threatened for many reasons.

CARROLL: Her complaint alleges that in one phone conversation, O'Reilly fantasized he would basically be in the shower. I would take that little loofa thing and kind of soap up your back. The rest too graphic to air.

The language in the complaint is very specific. But Mackris' attorney wouldn't confirm whether there's a recording. O'Reilly's lawyer said none of his actions were unlawful, and they say Mackris' complaint was part of a $60 million extortion attempt. They filed their own suit against Mackris and her attorney.

O'REILLY: This is the single most evil thing I have ever experienced. And I've seen a lot.

CARROLL: O'Reilly's legal team says Mackris never complained to Fox human resources about the alleged behavior. Mackris worked at Fox for four years. She left last January for a brief producing stint at CNN, but returned to "The O'Reilly Factor" in July, on conditions, her complaint says, he no longer engaged in inappropriate conduct. But Mackris says the conduct resumed, even though she wrote in an e-mail she was surrounded by really, good, fun people.

LESTER HOLT, NBC ANCHOR: Did you write that? MACKRIS: Yes, I did.

HOLT: And how do you account for that?

MACKRIS: I loved my job. I never wanted this to happen.

CARROLL: On Thursday's program O'Reilly reflected on the day.

O'REILLY: I've now become a gossip guy after 30 years of a clean record. I knew once we filed the extortion lawsuit yesterday, this would happen. The press would go while, printing embarrassing allegations, but I didn't have any choice.

CARROLL (on camera): O'Reilly says Mackris' lawsuit is politically motivated. Saying her attorney's firm donated money to the Democratic Party. Mackris' attorney says the extortion complaint is without merit and his client's complaint is not political, it's about sexual harassment, saying the allegations against O'Reilly will be proven in court.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, a fair amount to kick around here for a bit.

John Colapinto is a contributing editor of "Rolling Stone" and has written a piece on Mr. O'Reilly and talked with him extensively. CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is here, and from Washington civil rights attorney Debra Katz.

Good to have you all.

DEBRA KATZ, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Thank you.

BROWN: John, let me start with you. Just watching Mr. O'Reilly over the last two days, this is a pretty vintage performance on his part.

JOHN COLAPINTO, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "ROLLING STONE": You mean the way he's actually been behaving on screen?

BROWN: Yes. Yes.

COLAPINTO: Yes, coming on strong, definitely not shrinking back and looking defensive.

Well, there is a lot of defensiveness I think underneath the braggadocio. And there usually is with Bill, I think. But it doesn't surprise me that he's coming on strong and aggressively this way. There has been, however, an uncharacteristic quaver in his voice during some of his interviews. So I think the stress is showing a little bit.

BROWN: Well, there's two lawsuits in play. And let me split these between Jeffrey and Debra here. Jeffrey, first, Fox struck first, as pretty much the way Fox handles these things. Believe me, it is has worked wonderfully for them in a programming way to be on the offensive all the time. They say that the threat of the suit itself was extortion. Give me the law.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: The law is almost entirely on Andrea Mackris's side. That lawsuit is borderline frivolous, as far as I can tell.

Lawyers engage in this pre-lawsuit negotiation all the time. If a lawyer has even a remotely possible claim and he goes and says, look, I want you to pay me -- pay my client money to get out of it, that's not extortion. It's never been held to be extortion.

BROWN: Just in looking at all of this, there were a couple of weeks, it appears, of conversations between the two legal sides where there was money discussed. What was an appropriate number?

TOOBIN: Well, they -- one of the things that Fox has alleged or O'Reilly has alleged is that the use of the term $60 million was so outrageous that that amounted to extortion in and of itself.

Obviously, $60 million is way too high. It's a big number. But the mere fact that it was thrown out there, if in fact it was thrown out there, doesn't mean this was extortion. By the way, it doesn't mean that her lawsuit has any merit. It just means that his lawsuit seems to be pretty weak.

BROWN: Which is a nice segue to Debra.

Debra, let's talk about the threshold she has to go to. In a conversation with Howie Kurtz of "The Washington Post," Mr. O'Reilly's attorneys, as I read them, certainly do not deny the conversations took place. They say, well, some of this is taken out of context or may have been taken out of context or some of it may have been a joke.

Is simply saying the things he has alleged to have said, and some of it is pretty vulgar stuff, is that in and of itself a legal problem for him?

KATZ: Absolutely.

If these allegations are true, and they are highly detailed in the complaint, if Mr. O'Reilly said the things that are attributed to him, he has a real problem. Sexual harassment occurs when an employer subjects someone to unwelcomed sexual advances, unwelcomed sexual remarks. In this instance, not only has she alleged that he made vulgar remarks, but she alleges that he was masturbating with her on the phone and basically exercising his power as her boss with implicit threats that she continue to participate in such conversations.

BROWN: Debra, there's two parts to that. One is the sexual conversation part of it and the other is the unwelcome nature of it, and how does she establish the unwelcome nature of it, because, without that, there is no case, right? KATZ: Well, there's a doctrine called sexually hostile work environment. And here she would have to show that the comments were objectively offensive. I think there's no question she will meet that standard, and subjectively she found them offensive.

And if you look at the allegations, I think a jury would have no difficulty concluding that these allegations met both standards.

TOOBIN: But you also have to remember, in fairness to O'Reilly, there is -- sexual harassment is a form of employment discrimination. Was she penalized in any way in the work force here? She left Fox apparently because of this bad behavior, and then came back.

BROWN: Right.

TOOBIN: If it was so bad, why did she come back?

(CROSSTALK)

KATZ: You don't need to show that you were penalized in the work place. In fact, sexual harassment, a sexually hostile work environment only requires you to show that you were subjected to intimidation, abuse, ridicule, such that it impeded your work environment.

And here, where you're subjected to these kind of really despicable, disgusting, degrading remarks, it clearly affects the terms and conditions of your employment. That's the legal standard.

BROWN: John, let's talk -- let's bring this back now and come off the legal part to the television part, if you will. In a culture where Bill Bennett has a gambling problem and doesn't seem to suffer particularly for that and Rush Limbaugh has a drug problem and doesn't seem to suffer particularly for that, what are the risks to Mr. O'Reilly, if any, here?

COLAPINTO: Well, I think of Jimmy Swaggart, who had a problem.

BROWN: He had a problem with prostitutes.

COLAPINTO: Yes.

BROWN: Yes.

COLAPINTO: And it severely affected his television career.

BROWN: But he was a minister.

COLAPINTO: He was, but he was also a TV personality who was up there, watched by millions -- actually, I don't know how many people watched him, but he was a popular TV evangelist and he was in people's living rooms.

And he was holding himself up, obviously, as a moral, you know, paragon. And to a degree, O'Reilly does something similar. O'Reilly does the tough guy stuff. He tells people to shut up. He says, cut their mike, but underneath it, the regular viewer of O'Reilly is thinking, ah, but there's a heart of gold in there somewhere.

And O'Reilly ends each show with a little twinkle at the camera and a funny story that makes you think, ah, Bill, we know ultimately that you're great. Unfortunately, the way this affidavit reads that Mackris filed, he doesn't sound twinkly. He sounds mean, harsh, and kind of frightening.

And I think that, you know, if his regular viewership, his large viewership, reads those allegations, they're going to think, gee, maybe that bullying thing that he does, you know, runs a little deeper. And they might not like that.

BROWN: That will, among many parts of this story that honestly are fascinating, that's the one most, because I actually believe there's no shame in the culture left anyway, so what's the difference?

But thank you all for joining us. But that's just my 2 cents on that.

When we come back, we'll wrap up our series on terror in Canada, born in Canada, trained in Afghanistan, now an informant for the U.S.

Also, the burden of war falling heavier on some than others, one woman's extraordinary story.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

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BROWN: Serious stuff again. We go back to the war on terror, not to the fight against al Qaeda, but to their war against us.

This young man in Canada who claims his family raised him to be a terrorist, wanted him to be a suicide bomber, recently, he had a change of heart and decided to give up the terrorist lifestyle, if you can call it that. But there's a catch, as there almost is in these kinds of stories. He decided to change his life after he was captured by coalition forces in Afghanistan.

Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the terror camps of Afghanistan, 21-year-old Canadian Abdul Rahman Khadr learned how to fight.

ABDUL RAHMAN KHADR, FORMER JIHADI: I learned like mortars, explosives, pistols, snipers, tactics, mountain tactics.

FEYERICK: And though he speaks fluent English, he says he spent little time with friends in his hometown Toronto, but training side by side with young Muslim jihadis like himself.

KHADR: They were training, as everybody else was, to help Islam whenever -- if anything happens, to help the Taliban, to maybe do something back home.

FEYERICK: Khadr's story is incredible. His own family has called him a liar and he has admitted changing parts of the story.

But he has also testified in a Canadian court under oath to tell the truth. It is those details that give credibility to the story Khadr tells CNN, a story that begins when Khadr was 11, the first time his father took him to an al Qaeda training camp. He was just 13 when he met Osama bin Laden.

KHADR: I shook hands with him and we sat down. He talked to my father. And we were just sitting there looking at them both talk. That's my first memory.

FEYERICK: His father, Ahmed Said Khadr, worked with bin Laden in the mid-'80s. He became known among jihadis as Ahmed Al-Canadi (ph), the Canadian.

KHADR: It's a small circle. The Canadians, it was very small. And a lot of -- I think 90 to 95 percent of any of the Canadians that came there either came to our house or otherwise we met them at guest houses or at camps. So we knew about anybody that came from Canada.

FEYERICK: Khadr says he met some half-dozen Canadian jihadi trainees, among them Almer Almati (ph), a man he knew as a plane expert and one of seven people on an FBI terror watch list.

But the life of a jihadi wasn't for him. Though he went through training eight times, he says he refused his father's plea to become a suicide bomber.

KHADR: Any family there that's really, you know, committed to this cause, it would be a pride for them to have a son that would become a suicide bomber.

FEYERICK: Three years ago, Khadr was captured by Northern Alliance forces in Afghanistan. He ended up in U.S. custody, testifying in court recently that he became a CIA informant, first at Guantanamo and then in Bosnia.

The CIA will not comment. Khadr tells CNN he couldn't handle the pressure or harsh conditions and so he went public, forcing his return to Canada last year.

KHADR: Yes, I trained. Yes, I went to training. I met Osama. I did all this. But I admit it all. And now I just want to move on. So please give me a chance.

FEYERICK: Canadian officials concede they aren't thrilled Khadr is back home, but they are willing to give him the chance. Just to make sure he doesn't change his mind and return overseas, he has been turned down for a passport.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Toronto.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: Ahead on the program, segment seven, three Marines, one story, a story of loss and extraordinary courage in the face of it.

And, at the end of the hour, morning papers, of course.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Ask a World War II veteran about being a member of the greatest generation and chances are he'll tell you that, all things being equal -- and they aren't, we know -- he would rather have his buddies back. This is the reality of all wars. And in that regard, no war, not even the most noble war, is a truly good one, not for Private Ryan and not for Marine Corporal Rosanna Powers, who buried her brother Caleb today.

His story and hers from CNN's David Mattingly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Taps" at Arlington National Cemetery, an echoing reminder of sacrifices made during war. But on this day, the sounds evoke double measures of pride and pain for one young Marine who in two days lost both her brother and her fiance to fighting in Iraq.

CPL. ROSANNA POWERS, U.S. MARINES: I don't know. It's probably like the hardest thing ever. Nobody should ever have to go through it.

MATTINGLY: Now barely 23 years old, Corporal Rosanna Powers joined the Marines straight out of high school. Her younger brother, Lance Corporal Caleb Powers, followed a year later.

And last year, she fell in love with Sergeant Rick Lord of Florida. The two had a baby boy last October and were planning to get married.

(on camera): They were a soon-to-be family of Marines and nothing could have made them happier. But as fate stepped in, they were also discussing plans to return to civilian life.

(voice-over): In some of his last phone calls home, Lord yearned to become a full-time dad and husband. Powers talked of becoming a small-town farmer, quite a change for a young man who grew up dreaming only of the Marines.

POWERS: We'd talk on the phone and he talked Marine talk to me. And I'm like, no, no, no, we don't do that here. I talk civilian talk.

MATTINGLY: Rosanna Powers says the Marine life was a perfect fit for her brother. His fund-raising work for Childhelp USA won him celebrity friendships and the respect of his tiny hometown in Washington state. DON RANDALL, UNCLE: He was always smiling, always happy, always wanted to be a Marine.

MATTINGLY: Caleb Powers, just 21, was shot and killed August 17. Rick Lord, age 24, died from injuries the next day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember the good times.

MATTINGLY: The two most important men in Rosanna Powers' life, two lifetimes of plans and dreams, gone in two heartbeats of the war.

POWERS: They definitely knew what they were getting into and they did this for a good reason, and a good outcome will come of it.

MATTINGLY: Spoken like a true Marine.

But Rosanna Powers is now a civilian mom with plans to go to college. She's already taught her son to recognize and kiss his father's picture. And when he's older, she plans to tell him of a young father and an uncle who gave up everything in service to their country.

David Mattingly, CNN, Arlington, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We'll have morning papers coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers around the country, and lots of good ones today.

The -- I think "The Washington Times" is running headlines just to amuse me. "The Washington Times," a conservative paper in the nation's capital, "Liberal Registration Drive Stirs Fraud Concerns. Memo Urges Preemptive Strikes on GOP." There's actually a good story hidden beneath it. And they also put the "Kerry Remark Angers Cheneys," the gay daughter remark, on the front page as well. Actually, it's on a lot of front pages.

"The Philadelphia Inquirer" leads with the flu shot inflation, the cost of flu shots. This is a very big story in the country. And as winter deepens or we get to winter, it will be even more so. "Cheneys Denounce Kerry on Remark on Gay Daughter." I -- it just seemed to me that once the vice president brought it up in Iowa a few weeks back, that these sort of benign references are sort of harmless. But, obviously, the family disagrees, or it's good politics. I don't know which.

This is "The Examiner" in San Francisco. Think about this one. "Median Home Price in San Francisco Rockets to $674,000. Report Says 11 Percent of San Franciscans Can Afford to Buy" -- 11 percent. Wow.

"Cincinnati Enquirer" has a political story a voting story. "Wrong Poll Site. It Still Counts if Ballot Cast in Right County." This is a question over provisional ballots and a very controversial ruling the secretary of state in Ohio made that seemed to limit voters' rights and that was overturned today.

Let me get one more in. Flu vaccine again on "The Dallas Morning News" "The Slow Scramble For Flu Vaccine" is the headline there.

And just -- I hope I have time for this, but I'm going to do it anyway. "It Stops Here." "The Boston Herald." "Slugging Sox Will Make Yanks History." The Sox, of course, the official team of NEWSNIGHT.

The weather tomorrow in Chicago, by the way, "cranky."

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: "AMERICAN MORNING" 7:00 a.m. Eastern. Soledad comes back on Monday. They're in Chicago.

We'll see you tomorrow night. Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired October 14, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. Capitalism is a wonderful thing. I am a beneficiary and a believer. That said, I'm having a bit of problem with capitalism tonight. The "Washington Post" reports today some companies with flu vaccine have jacked up the price as much as 10 times the normal rate because of the shortage of the vaccine. The "Post" reports as soon as it came out that there was contamination at one of the two companies that made the vaccine, suppliers reset prices skyward. The CEO of one company telling the "Post," hey, it's a commodity although some in the medical business don't want to admit that.
A salesman put it a bit more crassly in an e-mail. He wrote hospital beds are filling up and the little darlings are going back to school coughing up their diseases and we can get whatever the market will bear. The company said the e-mail was a joke. I'm sure you see the humor there too.

I suppose they have the right to sell at whatever price people will pay more or less. That is capitalism and I really do believe, but conscience ought to count as well and I wonder what happened to theirs.

The whip begins tonight at the Pentagon. The latest on American forces on the move in the Sunni triangle. CNN's Jamie McIntyre has the watch tonight. So Jamie, a headline from you.

JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Aaron, it's the biggest offensive yet involving ground troops around Fallujah. Hundreds of U.S. and some Iraqi forces as well, but it's not yet the final battle for Fallujah. The Pentagon says bigger things are to come.

BROWN: Jamie, thank you. On to the presidential campaign, the day after the night before, the beginning of the end, however you want to put it, first the president's day and our senior White House correspondent John King in Oregon tonight. John, a headline.

JOHN KING, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, the president's campaign today acknowledged the obvious, John Kerry benefited from the series of three debates but the president says now that the spinners and the pundits have had their way, the American people get theirs and he's confident to victory. Aaron.

BROWN: John, thank you. Finally Senator Kerry's day. CNN's Candy Crowley in Des Moines, Iowa tonight. Candy, the headline from there.

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, 18 days and two words from the Kerry campaign: Middle class.

BROWN: Candy, thank you, a busy day for you an all of us. We'll get back to you in a few moments. Also coming up on the program tonight the confessions of a holy warrior.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

Any family that's really, you know, committed to this cause, it would be a pride for them to have a son that would become a suicide bomber.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: A young man recruited in Canada, trained in Afghanistan and now talking to the CIA.

Also tonight, Bill O'Reilly finds himself in a bit of a mess. Allegations of crude sexual harassment levied against cable's biggest star. We'll look at the case, the law and the man and be fair and balanced as we always are.

And top it off with morning papers of course. My goodness, the rooster can't even print some of what's in the lawsuit. All that and more in the hour ahead. We begin tonight in Iraq. The day began with two explosions in the green zone and draws to a close with combat operations under way in one of the country's toughest no-go zones.

Suicide bombers ruling the day. American forces on the move tonight under cover of darkness around the city of Fallujah. Two sides of the war in Iraq. Once again from the Pentagon tonight, we begin with CNN's Jamie McIntyre.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE (voice-over): The ground assault was preceded by another round of punishing air strikes aimed at targets in Fallujah believed to be associated with the terrorist network of Abu Musab Zarqawi. Among the targets, safe houses, illegal checkpoints and weapons storage areas. Then after nightfall, hundreds of U.S. marines, army soldiers and Iraqi special forces moved against other objectives in and around the city, according to a marine with one of the units.

1ST LT. LYLE GILBERT, 1ST MARINE EXPEDITIONARY UNIT: The troops crossed the line of departure. We had artillery fire (INAUDIBLE) fire going out. Aircraft have been moving through the area all day, helicopters providing transport. It's been a pretty uncomfortable time. We have two battalions out there in maneuver right now dealing with the anti-Iraqi forces.

MCINTYRE: Pentagon officials say this is not the final battle for control of Fallujah which has been under the control of insurgents for months. Sources say the objectives were set after intelligence indicated that terrorists in Fallujah were planning to step up attacks against U.S. forces and the Iraqi people during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan. GILBERT: It's a significant effort and when all is said and done, it's going to be a lot less of the anti-Iraqi forces than we're dealing with right now.

MCINTYRE: The U.S. insists the new Iraqi government is calling the shots. Thursday a delegation from Fallujah broke off peace talks with the government over an ultimatum issued by Iraqi Prime Minister Allawi that Zarqawi be handed over.

GILBERT: We've been looking forward to this for a long time.

MCINTYRE: The marines have been anxious to retake Fallujah ever since their April offensive was aborted in favor of a political settlement that ultimately failed to restore security and left Fallujah a base of operations for the insurgents.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MCINTYRE: A short time ago, the U.S. military in Iraq said that two more air strikes had been conducted in the early hours of Friday morning Iraq time, but Pentagon officials still say this is not the big Fallujah offensive, although it could turn into something more depending on how the insurgents react. Part of the idea of this mission was to probe the insurgent forces, send them a message and see how they react. Aaron?

BROWN: Just tell me on some basic military 101 here, how many American marines, if we know, are in there? How does it compare to the number in the spring?

MCINTYRE: This, again, was a limited operation. It involved two battalions, one from the army, one from the marines. That's several hundred each. That's probably about 600 soldiers plus an unspecified number of Iraqi forces who are also there. This was a very large operation, but it's not the kind of force you'd need to mount in order to retake the city. Compared to the spring, that was an all-out offensive and that was significantly more. That was in the thousands of marines.

BROWN: Got it Jamie. Thank you very much. Jamie McIntyre at the Pentagon tonight.

This operation began not long after Abu Musab al Zarqawi's group claimed responsibility for a pair of bombings inside Baghdad's heavily guarded green zone, which as you know is home to the American embassy in Iraq and also to the Iraqi government. Two explosions, one at a sidewalk cafe, another at a shopping bazaar. At least five are believed to have died, including three American security contractors. Another American is missing and presumed dead. Troops quickly put the green zone on lock down and an investigation under way into how the bombers managed to breach the security in this tightly guarded area in the first place.

In the presidential election where Iraq figures so heavily, the candidates have turned a crucial corner. The debates now behind them, President Bush and Senator Kerry have just 2 1/2 weeks to close the deal with voters. Now it is about time, money and message and once the message is defined, staying on the message. The Kerry side found itself a bit thrown off message today in a skirmish over the vice president's lesbian daughter Mary and Kerry's comments about her last night. Here's CNN's Candy Crowley.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY (voice-over): Las Vegas and all those jabs from the president got John Kerry thinking about Mohammad Ali.

SEN. JOHN KERRY (D) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: George Foreman threw punch after punch and Ali kind of stepped back and said to Foreman during this to George Foreman. He said, George, is that all you've got?

CROWLEY: No knockout punches in the three debates but the Kerry campaign believes he won all of them on point. So there are questions on that point about sexual orientation.

KERRY: I think if you were to talk to Dick Cheney's daughter, who is a lesbian, she would tell you that she's being who she was.

CROWLEY: Dick and Lynne Cheney, who rarely talk publicly about their daughter's sexuality, called Kerry's words out of line, a cheap and tawdry political trick. Something stung because Kerry put out a written statement explaining he was trying to say something positive about how families deal with the issue. Elizabeth Edwards may not have helped when she weighed in.

ELIZABETH EDWARDS: It makes me really sad that that's Lynne's response. I think that it indicates a certain degree of shame with respect to her daughter's sexual preferences, that I'm certain makes her daughter uncomfortable and that makes me very sad on a personal level.

CROWLEY: No word from the low-key Mary Cheney on how she actually feels. Meanwhile, back on the trail, John Kerry was at an AARP meeting talking to seniors, people who voted before voting was cool, looking for a knockout punch as the bell four the final round sounds.

KERRY: And so I say to you, Mr. President, after four years of lost jobs, after four years of families losing health coverage, after four years of falling incomes, is that all you've got? After four years of rising gas prices, rising health care costs and squeezed families, is that all you've got?

CROWLEY: The campaign belongs to the nimble now. Kerry strategists will meet over the weekend to plot the day by day game of political chess, where to send the candidate and where to spend the money.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CROWLEY: In the way campaigns have a habit of doing, this one has come full circle now. We are in Des Moines, Iowa, and it looks like old home week. John Kerry, Teresa Heinz Kerry, John Edwards and Elizabeth Edwards all here in Iowa where it began for both of them. Aaron?

BROWN: The polls out of Iowa that I've seen have the Kerry side a bit behind there. An important state for them to win?

CROWLEY: Absolutely. I mean if you just look at -- if you take 2000, when I -- I remember it was starting out with this campaign two years ago. They said we have to win all the Al Gore states and one more, which sounded simple enough, except for this is an Al Gore state. So they have to win Iowa if that strategy still is in play. There are other places you know Aaron, that they're doing well where George Bush won in 2000, but this is close enough that in fact we're returning here probably next week.

BROWN: I mean, it's sort of logical they need that kind of upper Midwest corridor, Wisconsin, Minnesota and Iowa and they're working it pretty hard. Candy, thank you.

BROWN: Tonight the candidates remain in a statistical dead heat nationally. State by state is where it counts of course. That's a bit harder to read. Both sides claim victory in last night's final debate. That's not surprising. The Bush campaign dismisses the results of polls suggesting otherwise, not surprising either. That is the spin, but there are clear signs as well that Mr. Bush and his advisers are taking nothing for granted 2 1/2 weeks out. Our senior White House correspondent tonight, John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): In Nevada, a rousing beginning of the end game. Like ability and trust, key themes for the president's closing appeal to a divided electorate.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They know my blunt way of speaking. I get that from mom. They know I sometimes mangle the English language. I get that from dad. America's also knows I tell you exactly what I'm going to do and I keep my word.

KING: Stressing leadership will be another constant in the 19 day sprint. The Bush campaign highlighted Senator Kerry's wait and see approach when asked about Social Security reform in the final debate, suggesting the Democrat lacks the skills and the courage to confront tough issues.

BUSH: The senator's record is 20 years of out of the mainstream votes with -- without many significant reforms or results.

KING: Optimism can matter in a close race. This rare visit with reporters on Air Force One, Senator John McCain in tow, orchestrated to express nonchalance about all this talk of Kerry momentum and a debate series sweep.

BUSH: I feel great about where we are. There's a lot of enthusiasm for my candidacy.

KING: Yet the Bush campaign chairman acknowledged this reality. The president was in better shape heading into the debates than he is coming out, making a good start to the final push all the more urgent.

SCOTT REED, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Right now the campaign is all about momentum. It looks like the Bush campaign is going to need to get their momentum on the stump as he travels.

KING: Difficult targeting decisions now loom. Two stops in Nevada Thursday. Mr. Bush won last time, but the state leans a bit toward Kerry now.

BUSH: And I want your help.

KING: Then on to Oregon. The Bush campaign has invested heavily to organize here, yet again Senator Kerry now narrowly leads.

REED: It will probably be the last time they'll be heading back out there. They're going to be more focused on the Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida access and the Midwest states.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Now in another sign of the electoral chess both campaigns will play in the coming days, the president plans to campaign on Monday in New Jersey on Monday. That state has been reliably Democratic in recent presidential elections. Mr. Bush will go there if for nothing else Aaron to make the Democrats fight harder for it. As of now no plans by the Bush campaign to invest millions of dollars in a New York City media by targeting New Jersey. The campaign well aware every dollar spent on such a long shot is a dollar you can't spend in a battle ground.

BROWN: Aaron, let me ask a question and hope you can hear it. They acknowledge they were in better shape before the series of debates. Why do they think the president lost those debates or lost his lead or lost the momentum, whatever it is they believe he lost?

KING: They acknowledge, somewhat in public and even more expansively in private, that John Kerry stepped over the biggest threshold he had in the debates. He proved to the American people that he could be credible as commander in chief and that he was credible as a president. The Bush campaign still will attack his ideas and attack his positions but they say they acknowledge he did cross that one threshold that Americans, a majority of Americans if you look at the polling, now view him credibly when they're asked the question, can he be commander in chief?

BROWN: John, thank you very much, our senior White House correspondent, John King on the road again tonight.

Some expect this to be a record year for registering new voters. It may also be a banner year for skullduggery. This is where the high school civics world meets political hard ball. In high school civics, registering voters and stopping vote fraud is good in and of itself. In hard ball terms, it only matters to the extent that it helps your candidate or hurts the other guy. So battles are being fought across the country tonight. Here's CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAN LOTHIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The race to register voters in some states is being clouded by allegations of fraud. In the battleground state of Colorado --

BROWN: We got a problem there. We'll try and get back to that. We've got a number of other things coming up on the program tonight. Of course, the debates are over, the election 2 1/2 weeks away. Jeff Greenfield is back with some advice for the candidates.

A bit later, a story of a marine who loved another marine and convinced his sibling to be a marine only to bury them both. That segment seven tonight. This NEWSNIGHT continues from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: OK. Now back to where we were before the technical gremlins bit us. Lots of charges of political skullduggery out there. The story reported by CNN's Dan Lothian.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LOTHIAN (voice-over): The race to register voters in some states is being clouded by allegations of fraud. In the battleground state of Colorado, there's a list of people who have registered multiple times and stacks of forms with bogus names like this one filled out by Jason kills enemy. Colorado's secretary of state Donetta Davidson is fuming and has called for an investigation.

DONETTA DAVIDSON, COLORADO SECRETARY OF STATE: I don't care if the election is close or not. We cannot allow fraud to happen in our state.

LOTHIAN: In southern Nevada, the FBI is looking into allegations that registration forms filled out by Democrats at a private voters outreach office were destroyed and discarded as this ex-worker claims.

ERIC RUSSELL, FORMER VOTER REGISTRATION EMPLOYEE: She grabbed the Democrats. She handed them to her assistant and he ripped them up right in front of us.

LOTHIAN: Republican officials in the state have their doubts but are demanding answers.

BRIAN SCROGGINS, CLARK COUNTY REPUBLICAN PARTY: Obviously, any of these allegations are serious and we're not taking them lightly.

LOTHIAN: In this election battle, locked in a statistical dead heat, allegations are amplified, especially in key battle ground states like Ohio, Florida, Pennsylvania, Nevada and Colorado. Throw into the mix concerns over new voting technology, confusing ballot changes and not enough poll workers and the results, some fear, could be troubling.

DOUG CHAPIN, DIRECTOR, ELECTIONONLINE.ORG: It's very unlikely that we will get through Election Day without some kind of a problem. LOTHIAN: This government accountability office report indicates the Justice Department has made some progress since the 2000 election in addressing voter irregularities, but it also reveals not enough has been done. Congressman Henry Waxman says the government is not ready for another close election.

REP. HENRY WAXMAN (D) CALIFORNIA: The Justice Department should have been prepared and maybe still can try to be prepared to stop any irregularities.

LOTHIAN: But in statement, the Justice Department said it has been proactive already, implementing significant changes and that it can better monitor election activities and track voter complaints. From Capitol Hill to the courts, an aggressive effort is under way to make sure every vote is counted without fraud, mistakes or confusion. Dan Lothian, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: So on this day after the final debate, the logical question to ask is what now? Candy Crowley and John King provided part of the answer in the last section. Circumstances might very well supply the rest. The last three presidential campaigns saw significant movement in just the last two weeks in times a lot less stressful and eventful than these days. So part of the advice to either candidate would have to include a warning to be prepared for the unexpected. As for how else to manage, here's our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): OK. Gentlemen, the face to face jousting is over. We're in the back stretch, the ninth inning, the fourth quarter or whatever other lame sports metaphor you like. So where do you both stand? Senator Kerry, the debates have served you well. The polls, pols and pundits had you on life support in late September. Now you've pulled even and key states that were drifting away from you are coming back.

But while more Americans are now doubting the Iraq war's premise and even more now question its execution, President Bush is still seen as the stronger leader, the one best equipped to lead the war on terror and this line from the last debate.

BUSH: There's a mainstream in American politics and you sit right on the far left bank.

GREENFIELD: That's a two-pronged attack designed to persuade the centrist voter that you're a tax and spend liberal, designed to remind his base that this vote is not just about policy but about fundamental values. And then there is the blunt fact that you're bearing, your language, your public personality is just harder to warm up to than the president's. Your task then is to remind uncommitted voters that this is not a Mr. Congeniality contest, to persuade them to make a basic judgment that whatever the president's personal charms, his judgment and his record do not merit rehiring and that they can be comfortable with you in the oval office.

Meanwhile, your supporters' job is to get all those new voters they registered to the polls. Mr. President, it has been a rough two weeks. The clear lead you had built in the month after your convention began to erode with that first debate performance. And instead of forcing Kerry to defend his electoral turf, you've got problems of your own in Ohio, New Hampshire, Nevada, Colorado and Florida.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is the swinging door chad.

GREENFIELD: You remember Florida? Florida looks a little shaky. And neither the latest economic numbers nor the latest news out of Iraq makes it easy to proclaim success in the key issues of this campaign. But the news is not all bad. You are more or less even in the polls and voters still have national security and terror very much on their minds, areas where you run well. Twice as many voters call themselves conservative as liberal which means the tax and spend indictment of John Kerry and his voting record appears to have some potency.

And among those who vote on social issues, guns, gay marriage, abortion, the need for faith-based politics, you are a hero, as much of a hero as Ronald Reagan was. Your task, to revive the central message of the Republican convention that while voters may want change, the dangers lurking out there in the world and the uncertain stances of your opponent make change simply too big a risk to take.

In one sense both of you are facing exactly the same challenge. Since neither of you has yet convinced the electorate that you're the one they want in the oval office, your best chance to win is make sure the public stays focused on the other guy. Jeff Greenfield, CNN, Las Angeles.

BROWN: Some other stories making news around the country today. Film maker Michael Moore is in another fight over his movie "Fahrenheit 9/11." This time he's battling one of the nation's largest providers of pay per view movies. In demand told CNN they are pulling the movie the night before the presidential election. This is pay per view. They would not say why. It was supposed to air as a pay per view event. Mr. Moore says the company caved in to Republican pressure and vows to fight back.

A double dose of problems for people who need a flu shot. Government trying to import doses of the vaccine from two companies that sell it in Canada. I thought we were worried about safety of drugs coming out of Canada. It's little hope this will solve the entire problem or even come close. As we noted at the top tonight, there are reports of price gouging, some hospitals claiming certain distributors are charging them up to $100 a shot. Normally it costs about $20. FDA urging states to prosecute companies that illegally raise prices.

Coming up on the program tonight, let's just call him a major factor in cable television who's having to factor a very big lawsuit into his life. If that isn't enough, if that isn't enough excitement for you, it clearly was for me, morning papers still to come around the world. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Bill O'Reilly had made it his business to take on what he sees as hypocrisy and scandal in others and for Mr. O'Reilly, business has been good, very good. Worth tens and tens of millions of dollars in ad sales to Fox news, not to mention millions to Mr. O'Reilly himself for his program, for his books, for speaking engagements and all the rest including the coffee mugs. But tonight, the spotlight is on him in a way it hasn't been before. A sexual harassment lawsuit detailing truly vulgar conversations with a subordinate and some say he's trying to spin his way out of a no-spin zone. We begin this with CNN's Jason Carroll.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bill O'Reilly on the talk show circuit promoting his children's book. Not an easy task when involved in sexual harassment lawsuit and having what O'Reilly calls the worst day of your life.

BILL O'REILLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: If I have to go down, I'm willing to do it but I got to make a stand.

CARROLL: Making a stand against one of his associate producers Andrea Mackris who alleges he sexually harassed her by making repeatedly sexually explicit remarks.

ANDREA MACKRIS, FOX NEWS ASSOCIATE PRODUCER: Mainly the last time I had spoken to Bill when this inappropriate conversation had happened, the last time, he said it was going to be in person and I felt extremely threatened for many reasons.

CARROLL: Her complaint alleges that in one phone conversation, O'Reilly fantasized he would basically be in the shower. I would take that little loofa thing and kind of soap up your back. The rest too graphic to air.

The language in the complaint is very specific. But Mackris' attorney wouldn't confirm whether there's a recording. O'Reilly's lawyer said none of his actions were unlawful, and they say Mackris' complaint was part of a $60 million extortion attempt. They filed their own suit against Mackris and her attorney.

O'REILLY: This is the single most evil thing I have ever experienced. And I've seen a lot.

CARROLL: O'Reilly's legal team says Mackris never complained to Fox human resources about the alleged behavior. Mackris worked at Fox for four years. She left last January for a brief producing stint at CNN, but returned to "The O'Reilly Factor" in July, on conditions, her complaint says, he no longer engaged in inappropriate conduct. But Mackris says the conduct resumed, even though she wrote in an e-mail she was surrounded by really, good, fun people.

LESTER HOLT, NBC ANCHOR: Did you write that? MACKRIS: Yes, I did.

HOLT: And how do you account for that?

MACKRIS: I loved my job. I never wanted this to happen.

CARROLL: On Thursday's program O'Reilly reflected on the day.

O'REILLY: I've now become a gossip guy after 30 years of a clean record. I knew once we filed the extortion lawsuit yesterday, this would happen. The press would go while, printing embarrassing allegations, but I didn't have any choice.

CARROLL (on camera): O'Reilly says Mackris' lawsuit is politically motivated. Saying her attorney's firm donated money to the Democratic Party. Mackris' attorney says the extortion complaint is without merit and his client's complaint is not political, it's about sexual harassment, saying the allegations against O'Reilly will be proven in court.

Jason Carroll, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Well, a fair amount to kick around here for a bit.

John Colapinto is a contributing editor of "Rolling Stone" and has written a piece on Mr. O'Reilly and talked with him extensively. CNN legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin is here, and from Washington civil rights attorney Debra Katz.

Good to have you all.

DEBRA KATZ, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Thank you.

BROWN: John, let me start with you. Just watching Mr. O'Reilly over the last two days, this is a pretty vintage performance on his part.

JOHN COLAPINTO, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR, "ROLLING STONE": You mean the way he's actually been behaving on screen?

BROWN: Yes. Yes.

COLAPINTO: Yes, coming on strong, definitely not shrinking back and looking defensive.

Well, there is a lot of defensiveness I think underneath the braggadocio. And there usually is with Bill, I think. But it doesn't surprise me that he's coming on strong and aggressively this way. There has been, however, an uncharacteristic quaver in his voice during some of his interviews. So I think the stress is showing a little bit.

BROWN: Well, there's two lawsuits in play. And let me split these between Jeffrey and Debra here. Jeffrey, first, Fox struck first, as pretty much the way Fox handles these things. Believe me, it is has worked wonderfully for them in a programming way to be on the offensive all the time. They say that the threat of the suit itself was extortion. Give me the law.

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: The law is almost entirely on Andrea Mackris's side. That lawsuit is borderline frivolous, as far as I can tell.

Lawyers engage in this pre-lawsuit negotiation all the time. If a lawyer has even a remotely possible claim and he goes and says, look, I want you to pay me -- pay my client money to get out of it, that's not extortion. It's never been held to be extortion.

BROWN: Just in looking at all of this, there were a couple of weeks, it appears, of conversations between the two legal sides where there was money discussed. What was an appropriate number?

TOOBIN: Well, they -- one of the things that Fox has alleged or O'Reilly has alleged is that the use of the term $60 million was so outrageous that that amounted to extortion in and of itself.

Obviously, $60 million is way too high. It's a big number. But the mere fact that it was thrown out there, if in fact it was thrown out there, doesn't mean this was extortion. By the way, it doesn't mean that her lawsuit has any merit. It just means that his lawsuit seems to be pretty weak.

BROWN: Which is a nice segue to Debra.

Debra, let's talk about the threshold she has to go to. In a conversation with Howie Kurtz of "The Washington Post," Mr. O'Reilly's attorneys, as I read them, certainly do not deny the conversations took place. They say, well, some of this is taken out of context or may have been taken out of context or some of it may have been a joke.

Is simply saying the things he has alleged to have said, and some of it is pretty vulgar stuff, is that in and of itself a legal problem for him?

KATZ: Absolutely.

If these allegations are true, and they are highly detailed in the complaint, if Mr. O'Reilly said the things that are attributed to him, he has a real problem. Sexual harassment occurs when an employer subjects someone to unwelcomed sexual advances, unwelcomed sexual remarks. In this instance, not only has she alleged that he made vulgar remarks, but she alleges that he was masturbating with her on the phone and basically exercising his power as her boss with implicit threats that she continue to participate in such conversations.

BROWN: Debra, there's two parts to that. One is the sexual conversation part of it and the other is the unwelcome nature of it, and how does she establish the unwelcome nature of it, because, without that, there is no case, right? KATZ: Well, there's a doctrine called sexually hostile work environment. And here she would have to show that the comments were objectively offensive. I think there's no question she will meet that standard, and subjectively she found them offensive.

And if you look at the allegations, I think a jury would have no difficulty concluding that these allegations met both standards.

TOOBIN: But you also have to remember, in fairness to O'Reilly, there is -- sexual harassment is a form of employment discrimination. Was she penalized in any way in the work force here? She left Fox apparently because of this bad behavior, and then came back.

BROWN: Right.

TOOBIN: If it was so bad, why did she come back?

(CROSSTALK)

KATZ: You don't need to show that you were penalized in the work place. In fact, sexual harassment, a sexually hostile work environment only requires you to show that you were subjected to intimidation, abuse, ridicule, such that it impeded your work environment.

And here, where you're subjected to these kind of really despicable, disgusting, degrading remarks, it clearly affects the terms and conditions of your employment. That's the legal standard.

BROWN: John, let's talk -- let's bring this back now and come off the legal part to the television part, if you will. In a culture where Bill Bennett has a gambling problem and doesn't seem to suffer particularly for that and Rush Limbaugh has a drug problem and doesn't seem to suffer particularly for that, what are the risks to Mr. O'Reilly, if any, here?

COLAPINTO: Well, I think of Jimmy Swaggart, who had a problem.

BROWN: He had a problem with prostitutes.

COLAPINTO: Yes.

BROWN: Yes.

COLAPINTO: And it severely affected his television career.

BROWN: But he was a minister.

COLAPINTO: He was, but he was also a TV personality who was up there, watched by millions -- actually, I don't know how many people watched him, but he was a popular TV evangelist and he was in people's living rooms.

And he was holding himself up, obviously, as a moral, you know, paragon. And to a degree, O'Reilly does something similar. O'Reilly does the tough guy stuff. He tells people to shut up. He says, cut their mike, but underneath it, the regular viewer of O'Reilly is thinking, ah, but there's a heart of gold in there somewhere.

And O'Reilly ends each show with a little twinkle at the camera and a funny story that makes you think, ah, Bill, we know ultimately that you're great. Unfortunately, the way this affidavit reads that Mackris filed, he doesn't sound twinkly. He sounds mean, harsh, and kind of frightening.

And I think that, you know, if his regular viewership, his large viewership, reads those allegations, they're going to think, gee, maybe that bullying thing that he does, you know, runs a little deeper. And they might not like that.

BROWN: That will, among many parts of this story that honestly are fascinating, that's the one most, because I actually believe there's no shame in the culture left anyway, so what's the difference?

But thank you all for joining us. But that's just my 2 cents on that.

When we come back, we'll wrap up our series on terror in Canada, born in Canada, trained in Afghanistan, now an informant for the U.S.

Also, the burden of war falling heavier on some than others, one woman's extraordinary story.

This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Serious stuff again. We go back to the war on terror, not to the fight against al Qaeda, but to their war against us.

This young man in Canada who claims his family raised him to be a terrorist, wanted him to be a suicide bomber, recently, he had a change of heart and decided to give up the terrorist lifestyle, if you can call it that. But there's a catch, as there almost is in these kinds of stories. He decided to change his life after he was captured by coalition forces in Afghanistan.

Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the terror camps of Afghanistan, 21-year-old Canadian Abdul Rahman Khadr learned how to fight.

ABDUL RAHMAN KHADR, FORMER JIHADI: I learned like mortars, explosives, pistols, snipers, tactics, mountain tactics.

FEYERICK: And though he speaks fluent English, he says he spent little time with friends in his hometown Toronto, but training side by side with young Muslim jihadis like himself.

KHADR: They were training, as everybody else was, to help Islam whenever -- if anything happens, to help the Taliban, to maybe do something back home.

FEYERICK: Khadr's story is incredible. His own family has called him a liar and he has admitted changing parts of the story.

But he has also testified in a Canadian court under oath to tell the truth. It is those details that give credibility to the story Khadr tells CNN, a story that begins when Khadr was 11, the first time his father took him to an al Qaeda training camp. He was just 13 when he met Osama bin Laden.

KHADR: I shook hands with him and we sat down. He talked to my father. And we were just sitting there looking at them both talk. That's my first memory.

FEYERICK: His father, Ahmed Said Khadr, worked with bin Laden in the mid-'80s. He became known among jihadis as Ahmed Al-Canadi (ph), the Canadian.

KHADR: It's a small circle. The Canadians, it was very small. And a lot of -- I think 90 to 95 percent of any of the Canadians that came there either came to our house or otherwise we met them at guest houses or at camps. So we knew about anybody that came from Canada.

FEYERICK: Khadr says he met some half-dozen Canadian jihadi trainees, among them Almer Almati (ph), a man he knew as a plane expert and one of seven people on an FBI terror watch list.

But the life of a jihadi wasn't for him. Though he went through training eight times, he says he refused his father's plea to become a suicide bomber.

KHADR: Any family there that's really, you know, committed to this cause, it would be a pride for them to have a son that would become a suicide bomber.

FEYERICK: Three years ago, Khadr was captured by Northern Alliance forces in Afghanistan. He ended up in U.S. custody, testifying in court recently that he became a CIA informant, first at Guantanamo and then in Bosnia.

The CIA will not comment. Khadr tells CNN he couldn't handle the pressure or harsh conditions and so he went public, forcing his return to Canada last year.

KHADR: Yes, I trained. Yes, I went to training. I met Osama. I did all this. But I admit it all. And now I just want to move on. So please give me a chance.

FEYERICK: Canadian officials concede they aren't thrilled Khadr is back home, but they are willing to give him the chance. Just to make sure he doesn't change his mind and return overseas, he has been turned down for a passport.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, Toronto.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: Ahead on the program, segment seven, three Marines, one story, a story of loss and extraordinary courage in the face of it.

And, at the end of the hour, morning papers, of course.

This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Ask a World War II veteran about being a member of the greatest generation and chances are he'll tell you that, all things being equal -- and they aren't, we know -- he would rather have his buddies back. This is the reality of all wars. And in that regard, no war, not even the most noble war, is a truly good one, not for Private Ryan and not for Marine Corporal Rosanna Powers, who buried her brother Caleb today.

His story and hers from CNN's David Mattingly.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): "Taps" at Arlington National Cemetery, an echoing reminder of sacrifices made during war. But on this day, the sounds evoke double measures of pride and pain for one young Marine who in two days lost both her brother and her fiance to fighting in Iraq.

CPL. ROSANNA POWERS, U.S. MARINES: I don't know. It's probably like the hardest thing ever. Nobody should ever have to go through it.

MATTINGLY: Now barely 23 years old, Corporal Rosanna Powers joined the Marines straight out of high school. Her younger brother, Lance Corporal Caleb Powers, followed a year later.

And last year, she fell in love with Sergeant Rick Lord of Florida. The two had a baby boy last October and were planning to get married.

(on camera): They were a soon-to-be family of Marines and nothing could have made them happier. But as fate stepped in, they were also discussing plans to return to civilian life.

(voice-over): In some of his last phone calls home, Lord yearned to become a full-time dad and husband. Powers talked of becoming a small-town farmer, quite a change for a young man who grew up dreaming only of the Marines.

POWERS: We'd talk on the phone and he talked Marine talk to me. And I'm like, no, no, no, we don't do that here. I talk civilian talk.

MATTINGLY: Rosanna Powers says the Marine life was a perfect fit for her brother. His fund-raising work for Childhelp USA won him celebrity friendships and the respect of his tiny hometown in Washington state. DON RANDALL, UNCLE: He was always smiling, always happy, always wanted to be a Marine.

MATTINGLY: Caleb Powers, just 21, was shot and killed August 17. Rick Lord, age 24, died from injuries the next day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Remember the good times.

MATTINGLY: The two most important men in Rosanna Powers' life, two lifetimes of plans and dreams, gone in two heartbeats of the war.

POWERS: They definitely knew what they were getting into and they did this for a good reason, and a good outcome will come of it.

MATTINGLY: Spoken like a true Marine.

But Rosanna Powers is now a civilian mom with plans to go to college. She's already taught her son to recognize and kiss his father's picture. And when he's older, she plans to tell him of a young father and an uncle who gave up everything in service to their country.

David Mattingly, CNN, Arlington, Virginia.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We'll have morning papers coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers around the country, and lots of good ones today.

The -- I think "The Washington Times" is running headlines just to amuse me. "The Washington Times," a conservative paper in the nation's capital, "Liberal Registration Drive Stirs Fraud Concerns. Memo Urges Preemptive Strikes on GOP." There's actually a good story hidden beneath it. And they also put the "Kerry Remark Angers Cheneys," the gay daughter remark, on the front page as well. Actually, it's on a lot of front pages.

"The Philadelphia Inquirer" leads with the flu shot inflation, the cost of flu shots. This is a very big story in the country. And as winter deepens or we get to winter, it will be even more so. "Cheneys Denounce Kerry on Remark on Gay Daughter." I -- it just seemed to me that once the vice president brought it up in Iowa a few weeks back, that these sort of benign references are sort of harmless. But, obviously, the family disagrees, or it's good politics. I don't know which.

This is "The Examiner" in San Francisco. Think about this one. "Median Home Price in San Francisco Rockets to $674,000. Report Says 11 Percent of San Franciscans Can Afford to Buy" -- 11 percent. Wow.

"Cincinnati Enquirer" has a political story a voting story. "Wrong Poll Site. It Still Counts if Ballot Cast in Right County." This is a question over provisional ballots and a very controversial ruling the secretary of state in Ohio made that seemed to limit voters' rights and that was overturned today.

Let me get one more in. Flu vaccine again on "The Dallas Morning News" "The Slow Scramble For Flu Vaccine" is the headline there.

And just -- I hope I have time for this, but I'm going to do it anyway. "It Stops Here." "The Boston Herald." "Slugging Sox Will Make Yanks History." The Sox, of course, the official team of NEWSNIGHT.

The weather tomorrow in Chicago, by the way, "cranky."

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: "AMERICAN MORNING" 7:00 a.m. Eastern. Soledad comes back on Monday. They're in Chicago.

We'll see you tomorrow night. Good night for all of us.

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