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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

U.S. Troops Retake Falluja; What Does Arafat's Death Mean for Peace Process?

Aired November 11, 2004 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
By reading the headlines and the news accounts you would think it's impossible they were dealing with the same man. Yasser Arafat was that sort of character. "The New York Post" headline today said "Arafat Dead and He'll not be Missed." The pope today described him as a man of great charisma.

One writer said today that his legacy will be one of terror and greed. An Israeli official called him a murderer of thousands of Israelis. Nelson Mandela, himself branded by some as a terrorist of course, hailed Mr. Arafat.

And, in much of the Arab world, these are now official days of mourning, though in truth many of those states were less interested in the plight of the Palestinians than they pretended.

The old saw about one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter has some truth. Menachem Begin blew up buildings. He was a freedom fighter. History will be the ultimate judge of Arafat, of course, not today's presidents or reporters and his story is we'll have to juggle it all, the cause he led and the methods he allowed, encouraged, and often paid for.

Arafat's death is one of the stops on our road tonight. The first step, however, is Baghdad, the war, the insurgency, Falluja and the rest, CNN's Karl Penhaul in Baghdad, Karl a headline.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Aaron. The rebel stronghold of Falluja may almost have fallen to the U.S. Marines but the insurgency still retains a deadly punch as we've seen in a car bomb attack in Baghdad and other attacks across Iraq -- Aaron.

BROWN: Karl, thank you.

Next, Chairman Arafat, his final journey and CNN's Ben Wedeman who's in Cairo, so Ben, a headline.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, in the final years of his life, Yasser Arafat was described by the United States and Israel as irrelevant but in death he proved them wrong.

BROWN: Ben, thank you.

Finally, the White House and where this leaves the peace process, CNN's Senior White House Correspondent John King with the duty tonight, John, a headline from there.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, many European leaders didn't like it when President Bush labeled Yasser Arafat a terrorist. Now that Arafat is dead, Prime Minister Blair here tonight trying to convince this president to dedicate more time and more energy to Middle East peacemaking.

BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight, why television stations around the country have yanked the Oscar Award winning movie "Saving Private Ryan" an extraordinary story this.

And this is Veterans Day and Nissen helps us remember the war that gave birth to the first. Back then it was called Armistice Day.

The rooster, as always, shows up, holiday or not, morning papers near and far, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin once again with Falluja tonight, the fighting now in its fifth day and evolving in a number of ways. Army infantry and Marines have taken to a large extent the real estate they believe they needed to take, including two districts in the north part of the city, police headquarters and city hall, the focus now destroying caches of weapons and flushing out resistance that is house-by-house, street-by-street work.

Some of the insurgents are reported to be fleeing to the south or trying to break the cordon that now rings the city, clashes increasing today at a number of points around the perimeter.

And the human cost, of course, grows as well, 23 troops killed, 18 American, 5 Iraqi so far, more than 200 wounded. The Pentagon says about 600 insurgents have died since the operation began. That is the overview.

For a view from the ground we turn first to ITN's International Editor Lindsey Hilsum. She has been traveling with U.S. Marines northwest in Falluja and this is the report she filed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDSEY HILSUM, ITN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR (voice-over): Gate-to- gate, door-to-door breaking and entering, aware that any house may be booby trapped or occupied by gunmen. Cars are detonated just in case they're car bombs.

And, they are having to fight as insurgents leave an area and then creep back. The units captured about 12 prisoners who have been taken away for interrogation. The unit leader says they've killed several insurgents.

CAPT. BRIAN CHONTOSH, 1ST MARINE EXPEDITIONARY FORCE: Yes, we're finding a lot of weapons today. It was the largest stockpiles of weapons we found about six, six sites. HILSUM: Some weapons, like these rockets and rifles, are gathered up and taken away to be destroyed, others left where they're found to be dealt with on the spot. The armored vehicles wreak their destruction too. The Marine attitude is that such force is necessary and whatever is demolished now they can always rebuild later.

Insurgents may have pushed the people out of these houses sometime back, still it's strange to think that these are family homes where ordinary people lived, now abandoned to war, photos staring at no one, once caged birds bewildered to be free.

(on camera): The soldiers are still going from house to house but now they're staying in the houses and holding them. The firefight is still going on but from a distance in the surrounding area. Later on they hope to start patrolling to flush out the last of the insurgents, some of whom they (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and then came back during the day.

(voice-over): American forces are consolidating their hold on Falluja hoping they fatally wounded the insurgency in Iraq, not simply driven the rebels out of this town to set up in another.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That is one view, the view from the ground, an important piece of business but by no means, of course, the only one. There is, in fact, unfinished business from one end of the country to the other, large and small, some of it personal.

Kidnappers now hold and are threatening to behead close relatives of Prime Minister Allawi. Attacks on Iraqi police go on. And, as if to underscore that the taking of Falluja isn't enough, the insurgency today made itself felt in a number of large and small scale deadly attacks.

So, reporting that side of the story from Baghdad tonight, CNN's Karl Penhaul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PENHAUL (voice-over): This (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of smoke over the Baghdad skyline is ample evidence the insurgents still pose a huge threat elsewhere in Iraq. Survivors of this massive suicide car bomb are dragged to safety. The dead lie charred in blazing vehicles or in the rubble of buildings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This explosion was done by terrorists. These terrorists are against the country and against Iraq. They're against peace and they don't want it. This is murder.

PENHAUL: In Mosul, these resistance gunmen took to the street in solidarity with their comrades in Falluja. They torched at least three police stations in Mosul overnight and fought gun battles with police, authorities said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are terrorists, to terrorize the enemy of God, to terrorize the Iraqi National Guards in Falluja who are fighting our brothers.

PENHAUL: Since Monday, the day the Falluja offensive began, insurgents have struck in Baghdad, Balad, Baquba, Karbala, Kirkuk and Mosul. Falluja may have almost fallen but Iraq's anti-coalition rebellion has not lost its deadly punch.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PENHAUL: Now, one of the rationales for this great offensive on Falluja was to try and calm the playing field ahead of January elections across the whole of Iraq. Falluja was very much seen as the rebel stronghold and to a large extent the command and control center for insurgent operations across the rest of Iraq.

Perhaps we've seen in the number of attacks that have been occurring across the rest of the country since the Falluja offensive started then quite obviously the Iraqi government does have a problem still on its hands and there's no certainty that once the problem is solved in Falluja that it will be solved across the rest of Iraq. That just the nature of guerrilla war and they're finding that out.

Now, obviously, one of those who is personally under the gun is Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. Today a deadline expires that kidnappers of two of his relatives have issued. Those two relatives, one a 75- year-old cousin of Prime Minister Allawi, were kidnapped on Wednesday and the kidnappers have said they will behead them today, Friday, if the Falluja offensive is not halted.

Now, the prime minister's spokesman has described this as a terrorist act and he's also said that the kidnapping will not weaken the prime minister's resolve. What we have to see now, Friday, is what actions the kidnappers are going to take -- Aaron.

BROWN: Karl, thank you, Karl Penhaul who is in Baghdad.

CNN's Jane Arraf is embedded with an Army unit in Falluja. We've managed to make contact with Jane on the phone so, Jane, start reporting what you can and we'll try and get a question in to you as well. I'll tell you what let's do, let's try and see if we can make a -- reconnect with Jane and we'll try and pick that up in the next section. We'll take a break first.

This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's early morning in Falluja now. An Army unit that Jane Arraf is embedded with is moving through the city. We're going to try again and see if we can get Jane on the phone. Jane, just describe the scene as best you can and describe what the last 24 hours have been like.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (by telephone): Aaron, I'm sorry, there is a lot of noise around. We are in a moving armored personnel carrier. We are with the Army as they continue their attack into Falluja. They have taken the southern sector of Falluja and we are now moving through the streets.

The sun is just coming up. I'm sorry, Aaron. The streets are absolutely deserted. It's a residential area, one of the first we've seen (UNINTELLIGIBLE). (UNINTELLIGIBLE) artillery and ground strikes. They say that they've killed more than a dozen insurgents. (UNINTELLIGIBLE.)

BROWN: Jane, we're having a bit of trouble hearing you. If you can hear me, just as simply as you can how is the last 24 hours different from the 24 hours that preceded it?

ARRAF: Aaron, I know you asked something about the last 24 hours.

BROWN: Yes.

ARRAF: Can you say that again?

BROWN: Yes. I just want to know how each day has been different, I guess, how your early morning now on Friday how is Thursday different from Wednesday or has it been pretty much the same?

ARRAF: I think you were asking (UNINTELLIGIBLE) yesterday, if that is the case, Aaron...

BROWN: Yes.

ARRAF: They're essentially continuing what they started which was (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I'm not sure if you can still hear me or if you can hear the explosions around me. Just down the street there is a house burning.

They have been launching strikes against houses where people have popped up and shot at them but essentially the difference appears to be that the Army is (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We are now in quite a residential area and there is quite a lot of shooting going on at this moment.

Earlier they were in an industrial zone, which was rigged with explosives from start to finish. It's one of the things that they're finding as troops move into these parts of the city for the first time since April -- Aaron.

BROWN: OK, Jane. You take care of yourself. It sounds like your voice is giving out and the stress of it all and hopefully you and the young soldiers you are with will get through the next 24 hours safely, Jane Arraf who is traveling with an Army unit.

Those of you who are with us often and have heard Jane's reporting often, I'm sure you could also hear in her voice the exhaustion and the stress that is a part of this operation, whether you're covering it in the relative safety that she's working in, relative, or if you're a soldier on the ground.

On to another part of the region, in Israel today Prime Minister Sharon noted the death of Yasser Arafat, noted it without mentioning his name, understandable to be sure but also a sign of how far things have deteriorated since 1995 when Mr. Arafat publicly and personally mourned the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister at the time Yitzhak Rabin.

Yasser Arafat died without seeing his dream of a Palestinian state fully realized, in part many have said because he never became the statesman that such dreams require.

In any case, he died with the cause unfulfilled, his death and now his funeral miles from home, reporting for us tonight from Cairo, CNN's Ben Wedeman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Returning to the city of his birth, Yasser Arafat's body arrives in Cairo onboard a plane provided by the government of France, an Egyptian honor guard and a high level delegation on hand.

Arafat began his final journey home with a solemn ceremony outside Paris attended by French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, Suha Arafat and senior Palestinian officials, all for a man deemed irrelevant by his lifelong foe, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Egyptian authorities are rushing to finalize preparations for what is being described as a military funeral for the Palestinian leader. Opening the Egyptian Parliament, President Hosni Mubarak led lawmakers in a minute of silence in honor of Arafat who was born in Egypt and studied here, his return welcomed in the streets of the Egyptian capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our country will be his country, a second country. Egypt will be his mother country because he lived here and learned here, so he deserves to be here and Egypt as he mother of the Arab world.

WEDEMAN: From Cairo, Arafat's body will be flown by helicopter to Ramallah in the West Bank where workers spent Thursday building a mausoleum, not his final resting place, insist Palestinian officials.

Arafat wanted to be buried on the grounds of Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque but with the future of Jerusalem at the heart of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians that wish may not be realized for many years to come.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Cairo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: On now to the White House where Yasser Arafat has long been seen as part of the problem, not the solution. His passing certainly changes the picture and perhaps offers an opening.

In the region, however, openings don't always become opportunities let alone opportunities taken and so far the administration is taking its slow time on this one. Here's CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The Middle East after Arafat is a major focus of talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a close ally but also among European leaders who want President Bush to invest more time and energy on peacemaking.

In a statement, Mr. Bush offered condolences to the Palestinian people and said his hope is that they can finally realize their aspirations for an independent, democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors.

The president never hid his contempt for Arafat but says there is a diplomatic opening now if the new Palestinian leadership is committed to reform and peace. Administration officials privately voice hope that long time Arafat deputy Mahmoud Abbas emerges as the new leader. Mr. Bush spoke highly of Abbas during his brief tenure as Palestinian prime minister but the public White House position is that the Palestinians must make that choice.

DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: If we put our stamp of approval in a very public way upon a particular individual that could doom that individual's prospects for becoming leader of the Palestinians. He could be seen as the American stooge.

KING: As Mr. Bush faces new pressure to take a lead role in peacemaking, he is not surprisingly getting conflicting advice. The Palestinians want pressure on Israel.

NASAN ABDEL RAHMAN, PALESTINIAN REP. TO U.S.: Stop building Jewish settlements in the Palestinian territories, stop assassinating Palestinian community leaders, stop demolishing Palestinian homes.

KING: But Israel's ambassador to the United States says Mr. Bush should step in only if the new Palestinian leadership first proves its commitment to peace.

DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI AMB. TO U.S.: The fundamental issue is to end the Palestinian terrorism to dismantle the terrorists, the Palestinian terrorist organizations, stop the incitement and then the sky is the limit.

KING: Already there are European complaints that Mr. Bush is only sending a mid-level delegation to the Arafat funeral led by Assistant Secretary of State William Burns.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Officials here say there will be no doubt about the White House commitment to diplomacy once the Palestinians have chosen their new leadership but the administration also says it will not pretend it thought more highly of Mr. Arafat, a man the president has labeled an obstacle to peace and a terrorist -- Aaron.

BROWN: When they talk about there will be no question about a new emphasis on diplomacy what is it we're expecting to see?

KING: Well, they say the first cue has to come from the new Palestinian leadership. Ambassador Burns, while at the funeral, will tell the Palestinian delegation there that if they want help, U.S. technical assistance, any other assistance with the upcoming elections, the United States would be happy to provide it. If they want to do that in conjunction with the Europeans, the White House would be happy to do that.

In terms of diplomacy, actual meetings, the White House says the new Palestinian leadership has to first get itself in place, build some credibility with the Palestinian people. If they are ready for a meeting with Israel, if they want the White House to facilitate, if they raise their hands, the White House says it will be ready to cooperate if it sees a commitment to cracking down on terrorism and a commitment to actual peace.

BROWN: John, thank you, John King our Senior White House Correspondent at the White House tonight.

We'll have more on Arafat a little later in the program.

Coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, a whole lot of fuss over the movie "Saving Private Ryan," and how it lost its place in prime time on network television.

Also ahead, one of the most ghastly almost unbelievable stories of any war, the literal last day of World War I and why the fighting and the dying did not stop, a break first.

Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Just looking at those it's just the end of October. That doesn't include any of what's happened in Falluja over the last five days.

When the Federal Communications Commission was created 70 years ago, World War II was still five years away. Stephen Spielberg had not been born yet. The first Super Bowl wouldn't be played for another 33 years.

Tonight on this Veterans Day, all four have collided. ABC affiliates in at least eight states have decided not to air the Oscar winning movie "Saving Private Ryan" because they fear the Federal Communications Commission will fine them if they do.

If you've seen the movie, as millions have, you know about the graphic battle scenes and the raw language, the language of war. In the past, neither was an obstacle in prime time with proper warning. That was the past.

Here's CNN's Howard Kurtz.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HOWARD KURTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ABC has already aired the Oscar winning Stephen Spielberg film about a missing private during World War II on Veterans Day in 2001 and 2002 but that was then and this is now.

At least 20 ABC affiliate stations have refused to air "Private Ryan" tonight, including those owned by Cox Television, Belo, Hearst- Argyle and Scripps-Howard, serving such major markets as Atlanta and Dallas. Why the change of heart?

It all started with Janet Jackson. When the singer had her wardrobe malfunction at the Super Bowl there was a sufficient uproar that the Federal Communications Commission hit CBS-owned stations with a $550,000 fine.

Under Chairman Michael Powell, the FCC began speaking a language that media companies understand, money, by imposing much bigger fines for indecency. The commission ruled that the Golden Globe Awards carried live by NBC was profane because of this x-rated declaration from the singer Bono.

BONO: That's really, really (expletive) brilliant.

KURTZ: But a rerun of a prize-winning war movie? Long time motion picture lobbyist Jack Valenti scoffs at the notion of government fines.

JACK VALENTI, FMR. CEO MOTION PICTURE INDUSTRY OF AMERICA: I don't see anyway that the FCC would do that. It would be -- it would be a terrible -- it would be a terrible attack, a shameful attack on all these young men who lost their lives.

KURTZ: But local station executives are concerned about the film's violence and rough language and the FCC has refused to say in advance whether it deems the move offensive.

Says Scripps-Howard executive William Peterson: "Recent federal regulatory decisions on profanity appear to make it clear the Federal Communications Commission prohibits the broadcast of the type of profanity used in the movie. We do not believe we have the contractual right to edit the movie to remove the profanity."

KURTZ (on camera): The controversy comes as the war in Iraq drags on and American soldiers are fighting and dying in Falluja. Could some ABC stations be worried that "Private Ryan" might be too graphic a reminder for families of today's privates and other soldiers in Iraq? Or, are they simply more nervous about being shot down by the FCC?

Howard Kurtz, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Today a spokesman for Mr. Spielberg said: "It's ironic that this is happening on a day that we honor veterans. Saving Private Ryan has been cited as the truest realization of what war is really like. The film is a tribute to those who've served." Which brings us now to context does it matter, should it matter?

We're joined from Nashville, Tennessee tonight by Deb McDermott. She is the chairwoman of the ABC Television Affiliates Association and also the president of Young Broadcasting, which owns six ABC affiliates, none of which will show the broadcast. Nice to see you, welcome.

DEB MCDERMOTT, PRESIDENT, YOUNG BROADCASTING: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Look, you know, do you really believe that the FCC would have fined you or threatened license revocation over this?

MCDERMOTT: Yes. If you go back to the previous rulings that have happened in the last nine months, particularly with the Bono case, that ruling is very clear. It says that if you air any indecent language prior to 10:00 p.m. and it doesn't matter what context that it's aired in that you are doing something unlawful.

And so, therefore, that's why these stations have said I'm not going to take the chance. I'm not going to let my license be put in jeopardy because of the movie. I mean this is a fabulous movie. We all wanted to air this movie. And, you know, it's just been a change. We aired it twice before. It was unedited both times before.

BROWN: Here's -- I should keep my -- I guess, two cents out of this, but I'm not sure who I'm angrier at right now, the FCC for what I think is an absurd construction of its mandate, or you guys for not standing up and forcing the issue, because, at some point, it is an issue that needs to be forced.

It's one thing for a rock singer to do what Bono did. It's another thing for the context of this movie not to be allowed to be seen. Why not stand and fight?

MCDERMOTT: Well, there are some companies who have chosen to do that, and everybody met with their legal counsel. They talked about, what can we do? What should we be doing? And, you know, we walked away saying, we will not put our license in jeopardy.

And the FCC has made it very clear in that Bono ruling that they suggested that, if you do that, you will be in violation of their rules. And we are licensed by the FCC. This is not really about fines. This is about our license. And the law is very unclear, and this needs to be cleared up. The confusion needs to be cleared up.

You have all these stations who have chose not to air it. You have a lot of stations chosen to air it. And that shouldn't be happening. We ought to have a clear direction as to what we can air between 6:00 a.m. in the morning and 10:00 p.m. at night and serve our serve our communities and abide by the FCC regulations.

BROWN: Deb, I assume that broadcast groups like yours -- well, I don't know specifically yours, but certainly the affiliates, went to the FCC and said, look, tell us whether we're in trouble here or not. What did they say?

(CROSSTALK)

MCDERMOTT: Well, the FCC won't do that. They will not give program advisories before the program airs.

Their job is to look at what look at complaints that come in and then rule on those complaints. There, obviously, were calls made to the FCC to kind of see where see -- see what the temperature was.

BROWN: Yes.

MCDERMOTT: And it wasn't a universal temperature. So, you know, who knows when they'd rule on something like this. Often, complaints sit at the FCC for nine to 12 months before they're even brought to the attention and the ruling on that can happen even later than that. They'll probably be some changes at the FCC before then.

BROWN: When you aired the movie before, were there -- and there were lots of warnings about language, as there should be -- it's a pretty raw film in many ways. People ought to know that. Did people call and complain?

MCDERMOTT: There were complaints when they aired before. There was complaints filed with the FCC. And they did rule that it was OK to air. But the rules have changed since then.

BROWN: Yes.

MCDERMOTT: Nine months ago, the Bono ruling suggests differently, and that's what's caused all this confusion.

BROWN: Well, I don't at all envy the position that you all were put in. It's easy for me to sit here and say you ought to stand and fight and I know that and I know you know that. Hopefully, the result of this will be some clarification from the FCC, because, in truth, this is pretty nuts.

(CROSSTALK)

MCDERMOTT: We wanted to air this movie. And it's Veterans Day. It's an award-winning movie. It has got artistic, you know, excellence. And it's got historical significance. And we really did want to air this movie.

And we've gotten lots of complaints and calls today from viewers who also wanted to watch the movie. And it's just -- you know, it's not fair for us to be sitting in this position where we don't know where the FCC is on this issue and how it's going to impact our licenses.

BROWN: Deb, thanks for your time tonight. Good luck.

MCDERMOTT: I appreciate it. Thanks. Bye.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Thank you. Deb McDermott, who is the president of the affiliates board for that deals with the network, in this case, ABC. And that's pretty amazing stuff, if you ask me.

Still ahead tonight, more on Yasser Arafat, where his death leaves a very complicated part of the world, and a look back at the final, horrible hours of the war that was supposed to end all wars, 86 years ago to the day, Armistice Day, which was anything but.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Back to Yasser Arafat now, missed opportunities and all the rest.

We're joined by Lisa Beyer, who covers the region and the story for "TIME" magazine, spent the day writing the obituary for next week's magazine.

I said at the top that it is fascinating to look at how he was described today, vilified by plenty, lionized by some. Is it just a matter of perspective or was he, in fact, a little of both?

LISA BEYER, "TIME": Well, it's both a matter of perspective and it's also a matter of which period in his life you look at. Was Arafat a terrorist? Yes, certainly at a certain point in his life, in the beginning of his leadership of the Palestinian Liberation Organization. And then for a while, he wasn't, and then he returned to it again in the last few years.

BROWN: Why?

(CROSSTALK)

BEYER: I think because he decided at the time of the Camp David peace talks that he -- in order to make an agreement, a final agreement, for a Palestinian state, was going to have to make such deep concessions to the Israelis over demands that have come to be felt as sacred demands among the Palestinians, notably the right of return and Palestinian rights to traditionally Arab East Jerusalem, that he didn't want to be the one who did that.

He prepared -- he was prepared for his legacy to be that of a revolutionary and not of the guy who sold out Palestinian rights.

BROWN: So, in the end, you would guess that he never imagined that he would preside over the Palestinian state he fought for? He would have been content to have fought for the right of return or whatever until to the very end?

BEYER: No. I think he imagined at the beginning of the peace process that he would preside over a Palestinian state. I can't imagine he would have engaged in the Oslo accords if he hadn't imagined that.

BROWN: But in the last three, four years?

BEYER: I think it was a combination of things. For one thing, he didn't realize how bad of a deal he'd signed. I remember interviewing Arafat after we made him man of the year in 1993 after the Oslo peace agreements, and he insisted to me that when he got to the Gaza Strip, he was going to have sovereignty over the Gaza Strip. And I pointed out that the accord gave him no such. It gave him limited self-rule. And he yelled at me and said, don't you think I know what I have read?

Well, it turned out he hadn't read it. He didn't realize what a poor deal it was. What's more, once he got into the territories and began having to be the governor of the Palestinians, he realized how little he liked it and how ill-suited he was to that job. He liked to flit around and talk to diplomats and make speeches.

BROWN: So he liked being like a rock star diplomat? He liked the aura of power. He certainly liked having power. He didn't cede much power. He didn't like the day-to-day grind of the work?

BEYER: Absolutely not.

BROWN: Yes.

BEYER: But more to the point, I think, as he got into the grind of the peace process and understood that the Israelis were going to fight him every step of the way, it became increasingly hard to sell Oslo and the agreements that followed Oslo to his people.

And, again, when he just at the end of his days faced his own mortality and the fact that his legacy, if he made a final deal with the Israelis, was going to be as a man who sold certain Palestinian rights, who gave up certain Palestinian rights, I think he just didn't have the courage to do it.

BROWN: What's the first line in the obituary? Can you tell me?

(LAUGHTER)

BEYER: Yes. Yasser Arafat's favorite television show was "Tom and Jerry." And the reason? Because the mouse always won.

BROWN: That's a great line.

BEYER: Thank you.

BROWN: Nice to meet you.

BEYER: Nice to see you.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in. Thank you. I look forward to reading that this weekend.

A quick look now at a couple of other stories that made news around the country today. A woman was apparently kidnapped at a mall in Corona, California. This is an abduction that was caught on tape. As you're about to see, the woman was in a mall parking lot on the sidewalk on the right. When a car pulled up next to her, she ran off, but one of the men in the car chased her down and tossed her into the trunk.

And here's where it gets maddening, if that isn't maddening enough. No one called police. A mall security officer finally did. Police are trying to identify the woman and, obviously, they are trying to find those who kidnapped her.

Good news for Delta Airlines. They may not have to file for bankruptcy, at least until next year, which I guess qualifies for good news in the airlines business these days. Pilots for the airlines have agreed to cutting their pay by more than 30 percent. That and other concessions could save the nation's third largest airline $5 billion over the next five years.

Still ahead tonight, the 11th of November, 1918, World War I and NEWSNIGHT's Nissen.

And the 12th of November, 2004, morning papers will wrap up the hour.

We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: With the country now at war, Veterans Day is neither holiday, nor history. Instead, sadly, it the history in the making.

The happenings on this 11th of November to be remembered on the next, to be remembered and built upon and yet again in kind of memorial to the necessity and sometimes the folly of killing and dying and sacrifice. And on close inspection, all wars, the good ones and the bad ones, are all those things. Some, however, are all of those things in such great numbers that they give birth to days like today, called Veterans Day now, but something else back then.

The pictures here come from The History Channel, the reporting from NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): November 11, 1918, Armistice Day. Cheering crowds on five continents celebrated the end of the great war, four years of fighting so bloody, few words in the human vocabulary can describe it.

JOSEPH PERSICO, HISTORIAN: The casualties are stupefying. We just can't grasp them in human terms. Seven million of the wounded are permanently blinded, disfigured, lose limbs. Nine million are killed.

NISSEN: Nine million. The story of the last few thousand of those lost is one of the most appalling of this or any war. Historian Joseph Persico has written a detailed account of the great war's last today.

PERSICO: The armistice is signed 5:00 on the morning of November 11. It is agreed that it will take force at 11:00 that morning. And what happens during those six hours? Senseless killing.

NISSEN: Some allied officers, determined to take every last shot at the enemy, deliberately withheld news of the armistice from their men. Those offices officers included this young American artillery captain.

PERSICO: Harry S. Truman does not tell his men for that very reason. He's afraid that they will just unwind, and they still have got a job to do until 11:00.

NISSEN: Other ambitious generals, eager for a last shot at personal glory, ordered their troops to fight their way into terribly they could have walked into peacefully just hours later.

At dawn on the 11th, American General Charles Summerall ordered the 5th Army Corps to cross the Miers (ph) River under heavy German fire. The cost, 1,000 Doughboys wounded, 120 killed on the last morning of the war.

At 10:00 a.m., only an hour before the war's end, the all-black 92nd Infantry Division was ordered to leave a wooded area they held and make a full frontal assault on the Germans.

PERSICO: They're going to attack into machine gunfire and the reaction among these men was absolute horror.

NISSEN: The cost, 190 casualties. All along the western front, allied troops were ordered to keep fighting a war they'd already won.

PERSICO: The loss of life on this last day was inexplicable and indefensible. There are 10, 900 casualties; 2,700 men die on the last day of the war.

NISSEN: A number of deaths greater than those recorded on D-Day. In the fields across from the great war, historians find lessons, the need to plan for a war's end, an especially complex challenge in modern wars.

PERSICO: The frustrating thing is that there have not been clear-cut, decisive ends to them. They seem to either peter out. They're ragged. They leave resentful and bitter remnants, and this is what we're seeing in Iraq today.

NISSEN: Another lesson: Know exactly why you're fighting.

BEYER: The Tommies, the British soldiers, they would sing to the melody of "Auld Lang Syne." "We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here." And throughout four years, there never seemed to be a better reason.

NISSEN: And the overriding lesson, constantly calculate costs. Can the losses of a platoon, a division, a generation bring real and long-term gains? They didn't in World War I. Just 20 years later, the world was fighting again.

PERSICO: One can reach a rather grim conclusion that, what do wars teach us? What are the lessons of war? The major lesson appears to be that no lesson is ever learned.

NISSEN: Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers after the break.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: A couple of themes in the morning papers, as you will see as we start going through them. I don't know that I've ever started it that way. I always start it the same way. Okeydokey, time to check -- well, you know how I do this.

"Christian Science Monitor." "New Rebel Tactics Emerge in Falluja. Marines Faced a Tough Fight Yesterday as Insurgents Began Counterattack Timed With Islamic Holy Night." Also, Yasser Arafat on the front page.

"The Washington Times," the other newspaper in Washington. "Abbas on Track to Succeed Arafat" is the lead. "Palestinians Fill Streets. Funeral Set For Cairo." Middle of the page, "U.S. Suspects Many Insurgents Have Fled. Escape Foils Attempt to Kill Off Enemy." Why would anyone be surprised at that? There's 10,000 Marines out there. There's 3,000 of you. You going to hang around? I don't think so.

"The Philadelphia Inquirer." "As Arafat Era, Closes, An Opening." We can only hope so. They also put Veterans Day on the front page, "Honoring Those Who Served." ' "San Antonio Express News." This is a good story on the front page. I'm coming to like this paper. "Ultimate Sacrifices." These are profiles right at the top there of three young and I assume local San Antonio area guys who have died in the war. And they profile each of them. More newspapers should do that. Many do. It's just the respectful thing to do.

"The Rocky Mountain News" has kind of an off lead. "Frequent Fliers. State's Congressional Delegation Nets 39 Free Trips to 10 Countries Since 2000." I'm sure all of those were on important business. Also, take a look at picture on the front page. "Heartfelt Tribute to America's Veterans." This at Fort Logan in Colorado. That's a very nice shot. Who shot that? Does it say? Todd Heisler of "The Rocky Mountain News." Nice work, Todd.

"The Oregonian" out West in Portland. "Casualties Mount in Fight For Falluja" is their lead. They also put Veterans Day. "A Fine Town For a Parade in Albany, Oregon." And nice parade there today. I wonder if kids even get kind of what this day is about. Who knows.

"Santa Rosa News" out in Santa Rose, New Mexico. They also grieve. "Community Grieves For Victims of U.S. 84 Crash," a local car crash. And, by the way, schools are closed there tomorrow. So, if you're -- you can stay up a little later and watch the end of the segment.

"Taxed to the Max, While Fat Cat Developers Get All the Breaks" is the lead in "The Boston Herald," the tabloid in Boston.

Fifteen seconds? Are you kidding me? OK. We'll end it, then.

And how do we end it? The weather in Chicago tomorrow...

(CHIMES)

BROWN: I love that thing. "Make the most of it" is what "The Sun-Times" says, 45 degrees in Chicago tomorrow.

We'll wrap it up and make the most of it right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Quick program note.

Tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT, we'll hear from the always fascinating and always dapper Tom Wolfe. His new novel explores college life in the 21st century, runs nearly 700 pages. We'll talk with him about why he wrote it and much more.

And here's a sample.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM WOLFE, AUTHOR, "I AM CHARLOTTE SIMMONS": I shouldn't admit this, but it's all the suits. It's all the white suits.

(LAUGHTER)

WOLFE: I found earlier the great dividend -- and I started wearing them by accident -- but was that I would be interviewed about something I had written and I didn't say very much. I didn't know what to say to these interviewers. But they would go away saying, what an interesting man. He wears these white suits.

So they have been great. These white suits have just been great for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Well, not just a nice set of threads, not by a long shot. He's terrific. It's an interesting interview and we'll run that tomorrow, much more as well. We hope you'll join us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired November 11, 2004 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
By reading the headlines and the news accounts you would think it's impossible they were dealing with the same man. Yasser Arafat was that sort of character. "The New York Post" headline today said "Arafat Dead and He'll not be Missed." The pope today described him as a man of great charisma.

One writer said today that his legacy will be one of terror and greed. An Israeli official called him a murderer of thousands of Israelis. Nelson Mandela, himself branded by some as a terrorist of course, hailed Mr. Arafat.

And, in much of the Arab world, these are now official days of mourning, though in truth many of those states were less interested in the plight of the Palestinians than they pretended.

The old saw about one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter has some truth. Menachem Begin blew up buildings. He was a freedom fighter. History will be the ultimate judge of Arafat, of course, not today's presidents or reporters and his story is we'll have to juggle it all, the cause he led and the methods he allowed, encouraged, and often paid for.

Arafat's death is one of the stops on our road tonight. The first step, however, is Baghdad, the war, the insurgency, Falluja and the rest, CNN's Karl Penhaul in Baghdad, Karl a headline.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Aaron. The rebel stronghold of Falluja may almost have fallen to the U.S. Marines but the insurgency still retains a deadly punch as we've seen in a car bomb attack in Baghdad and other attacks across Iraq -- Aaron.

BROWN: Karl, thank you.

Next, Chairman Arafat, his final journey and CNN's Ben Wedeman who's in Cairo, so Ben, a headline.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, in the final years of his life, Yasser Arafat was described by the United States and Israel as irrelevant but in death he proved them wrong.

BROWN: Ben, thank you.

Finally, the White House and where this leaves the peace process, CNN's Senior White House Correspondent John King with the duty tonight, John, a headline from there.

JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Aaron, many European leaders didn't like it when President Bush labeled Yasser Arafat a terrorist. Now that Arafat is dead, Prime Minister Blair here tonight trying to convince this president to dedicate more time and more energy to Middle East peacemaking.

BROWN: John, thank you. We'll get back to you and the rest shortly.

Also coming up on the program tonight, why television stations around the country have yanked the Oscar Award winning movie "Saving Private Ryan" an extraordinary story this.

And this is Veterans Day and Nissen helps us remember the war that gave birth to the first. Back then it was called Armistice Day.

The rooster, as always, shows up, holiday or not, morning papers near and far, all that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin once again with Falluja tonight, the fighting now in its fifth day and evolving in a number of ways. Army infantry and Marines have taken to a large extent the real estate they believe they needed to take, including two districts in the north part of the city, police headquarters and city hall, the focus now destroying caches of weapons and flushing out resistance that is house-by-house, street-by-street work.

Some of the insurgents are reported to be fleeing to the south or trying to break the cordon that now rings the city, clashes increasing today at a number of points around the perimeter.

And the human cost, of course, grows as well, 23 troops killed, 18 American, 5 Iraqi so far, more than 200 wounded. The Pentagon says about 600 insurgents have died since the operation began. That is the overview.

For a view from the ground we turn first to ITN's International Editor Lindsey Hilsum. She has been traveling with U.S. Marines northwest in Falluja and this is the report she filed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LINDSEY HILSUM, ITN INTERNATIONAL EDITOR (voice-over): Gate-to- gate, door-to-door breaking and entering, aware that any house may be booby trapped or occupied by gunmen. Cars are detonated just in case they're car bombs.

And, they are having to fight as insurgents leave an area and then creep back. The units captured about 12 prisoners who have been taken away for interrogation. The unit leader says they've killed several insurgents.

CAPT. BRIAN CHONTOSH, 1ST MARINE EXPEDITIONARY FORCE: Yes, we're finding a lot of weapons today. It was the largest stockpiles of weapons we found about six, six sites. HILSUM: Some weapons, like these rockets and rifles, are gathered up and taken away to be destroyed, others left where they're found to be dealt with on the spot. The armored vehicles wreak their destruction too. The Marine attitude is that such force is necessary and whatever is demolished now they can always rebuild later.

Insurgents may have pushed the people out of these houses sometime back, still it's strange to think that these are family homes where ordinary people lived, now abandoned to war, photos staring at no one, once caged birds bewildered to be free.

(on camera): The soldiers are still going from house to house but now they're staying in the houses and holding them. The firefight is still going on but from a distance in the surrounding area. Later on they hope to start patrolling to flush out the last of the insurgents, some of whom they (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and then came back during the day.

(voice-over): American forces are consolidating their hold on Falluja hoping they fatally wounded the insurgency in Iraq, not simply driven the rebels out of this town to set up in another.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That is one view, the view from the ground, an important piece of business but by no means, of course, the only one. There is, in fact, unfinished business from one end of the country to the other, large and small, some of it personal.

Kidnappers now hold and are threatening to behead close relatives of Prime Minister Allawi. Attacks on Iraqi police go on. And, as if to underscore that the taking of Falluja isn't enough, the insurgency today made itself felt in a number of large and small scale deadly attacks.

So, reporting that side of the story from Baghdad tonight, CNN's Karl Penhaul.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PENHAUL (voice-over): This (UNINTELLIGIBLE) of smoke over the Baghdad skyline is ample evidence the insurgents still pose a huge threat elsewhere in Iraq. Survivors of this massive suicide car bomb are dragged to safety. The dead lie charred in blazing vehicles or in the rubble of buildings.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): This explosion was done by terrorists. These terrorists are against the country and against Iraq. They're against peace and they don't want it. This is murder.

PENHAUL: In Mosul, these resistance gunmen took to the street in solidarity with their comrades in Falluja. They torched at least three police stations in Mosul overnight and fought gun battles with police, authorities said.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We are terrorists, to terrorize the enemy of God, to terrorize the Iraqi National Guards in Falluja who are fighting our brothers.

PENHAUL: Since Monday, the day the Falluja offensive began, insurgents have struck in Baghdad, Balad, Baquba, Karbala, Kirkuk and Mosul. Falluja may have almost fallen but Iraq's anti-coalition rebellion has not lost its deadly punch.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PENHAUL: Now, one of the rationales for this great offensive on Falluja was to try and calm the playing field ahead of January elections across the whole of Iraq. Falluja was very much seen as the rebel stronghold and to a large extent the command and control center for insurgent operations across the rest of Iraq.

Perhaps we've seen in the number of attacks that have been occurring across the rest of the country since the Falluja offensive started then quite obviously the Iraqi government does have a problem still on its hands and there's no certainty that once the problem is solved in Falluja that it will be solved across the rest of Iraq. That just the nature of guerrilla war and they're finding that out.

Now, obviously, one of those who is personally under the gun is Prime Minister Ayad Allawi. Today a deadline expires that kidnappers of two of his relatives have issued. Those two relatives, one a 75- year-old cousin of Prime Minister Allawi, were kidnapped on Wednesday and the kidnappers have said they will behead them today, Friday, if the Falluja offensive is not halted.

Now, the prime minister's spokesman has described this as a terrorist act and he's also said that the kidnapping will not weaken the prime minister's resolve. What we have to see now, Friday, is what actions the kidnappers are going to take -- Aaron.

BROWN: Karl, thank you, Karl Penhaul who is in Baghdad.

CNN's Jane Arraf is embedded with an Army unit in Falluja. We've managed to make contact with Jane on the phone so, Jane, start reporting what you can and we'll try and get a question in to you as well. I'll tell you what let's do, let's try and see if we can make a -- reconnect with Jane and we'll try and pick that up in the next section. We'll take a break first.

This is NEWSNIGHT from New York.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's early morning in Falluja now. An Army unit that Jane Arraf is embedded with is moving through the city. We're going to try again and see if we can get Jane on the phone. Jane, just describe the scene as best you can and describe what the last 24 hours have been like.

JANE ARRAF, CNN BAGHDAD BUREAU CHIEF (by telephone): Aaron, I'm sorry, there is a lot of noise around. We are in a moving armored personnel carrier. We are with the Army as they continue their attack into Falluja. They have taken the southern sector of Falluja and we are now moving through the streets.

The sun is just coming up. I'm sorry, Aaron. The streets are absolutely deserted. It's a residential area, one of the first we've seen (UNINTELLIGIBLE). (UNINTELLIGIBLE) artillery and ground strikes. They say that they've killed more than a dozen insurgents. (UNINTELLIGIBLE.)

BROWN: Jane, we're having a bit of trouble hearing you. If you can hear me, just as simply as you can how is the last 24 hours different from the 24 hours that preceded it?

ARRAF: Aaron, I know you asked something about the last 24 hours.

BROWN: Yes.

ARRAF: Can you say that again?

BROWN: Yes. I just want to know how each day has been different, I guess, how your early morning now on Friday how is Thursday different from Wednesday or has it been pretty much the same?

ARRAF: I think you were asking (UNINTELLIGIBLE) yesterday, if that is the case, Aaron...

BROWN: Yes.

ARRAF: They're essentially continuing what they started which was (UNINTELLIGIBLE). I'm not sure if you can still hear me or if you can hear the explosions around me. Just down the street there is a house burning.

They have been launching strikes against houses where people have popped up and shot at them but essentially the difference appears to be that the Army is (UNINTELLIGIBLE). We are now in quite a residential area and there is quite a lot of shooting going on at this moment.

Earlier they were in an industrial zone, which was rigged with explosives from start to finish. It's one of the things that they're finding as troops move into these parts of the city for the first time since April -- Aaron.

BROWN: OK, Jane. You take care of yourself. It sounds like your voice is giving out and the stress of it all and hopefully you and the young soldiers you are with will get through the next 24 hours safely, Jane Arraf who is traveling with an Army unit.

Those of you who are with us often and have heard Jane's reporting often, I'm sure you could also hear in her voice the exhaustion and the stress that is a part of this operation, whether you're covering it in the relative safety that she's working in, relative, or if you're a soldier on the ground.

On to another part of the region, in Israel today Prime Minister Sharon noted the death of Yasser Arafat, noted it without mentioning his name, understandable to be sure but also a sign of how far things have deteriorated since 1995 when Mr. Arafat publicly and personally mourned the assassination of Israeli Prime Minister at the time Yitzhak Rabin.

Yasser Arafat died without seeing his dream of a Palestinian state fully realized, in part many have said because he never became the statesman that such dreams require.

In any case, he died with the cause unfulfilled, his death and now his funeral miles from home, reporting for us tonight from Cairo, CNN's Ben Wedeman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (voice-over): Returning to the city of his birth, Yasser Arafat's body arrives in Cairo onboard a plane provided by the government of France, an Egyptian honor guard and a high level delegation on hand.

Arafat began his final journey home with a solemn ceremony outside Paris attended by French Prime Minister Jean-Pierre Raffarin, Suha Arafat and senior Palestinian officials, all for a man deemed irrelevant by his lifelong foe, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon.

Egyptian authorities are rushing to finalize preparations for what is being described as a military funeral for the Palestinian leader. Opening the Egyptian Parliament, President Hosni Mubarak led lawmakers in a minute of silence in honor of Arafat who was born in Egypt and studied here, his return welcomed in the streets of the Egyptian capital.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our country will be his country, a second country. Egypt will be his mother country because he lived here and learned here, so he deserves to be here and Egypt as he mother of the Arab world.

WEDEMAN: From Cairo, Arafat's body will be flown by helicopter to Ramallah in the West Bank where workers spent Thursday building a mausoleum, not his final resting place, insist Palestinian officials.

Arafat wanted to be buried on the grounds of Jerusalem's Al Aqsa Mosque but with the future of Jerusalem at the heart of the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians that wish may not be realized for many years to come.

Ben Wedeman, CNN, Cairo.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: On now to the White House where Yasser Arafat has long been seen as part of the problem, not the solution. His passing certainly changes the picture and perhaps offers an opening.

In the region, however, openings don't always become opportunities let alone opportunities taken and so far the administration is taking its slow time on this one. Here's CNN's John King.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): The Middle East after Arafat is a major focus of talks with British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a close ally but also among European leaders who want President Bush to invest more time and energy on peacemaking.

In a statement, Mr. Bush offered condolences to the Palestinian people and said his hope is that they can finally realize their aspirations for an independent, democratic Palestine that is at peace with its neighbors.

The president never hid his contempt for Arafat but says there is a diplomatic opening now if the new Palestinian leadership is committed to reform and peace. Administration officials privately voice hope that long time Arafat deputy Mahmoud Abbas emerges as the new leader. Mr. Bush spoke highly of Abbas during his brief tenure as Palestinian prime minister but the public White House position is that the Palestinians must make that choice.

DAVID GERGEN, FMR. PRESIDENTIAL ADVISER: If we put our stamp of approval in a very public way upon a particular individual that could doom that individual's prospects for becoming leader of the Palestinians. He could be seen as the American stooge.

KING: As Mr. Bush faces new pressure to take a lead role in peacemaking, he is not surprisingly getting conflicting advice. The Palestinians want pressure on Israel.

NASAN ABDEL RAHMAN, PALESTINIAN REP. TO U.S.: Stop building Jewish settlements in the Palestinian territories, stop assassinating Palestinian community leaders, stop demolishing Palestinian homes.

KING: But Israel's ambassador to the United States says Mr. Bush should step in only if the new Palestinian leadership first proves its commitment to peace.

DANIEL AYALON, ISRAELI AMB. TO U.S.: The fundamental issue is to end the Palestinian terrorism to dismantle the terrorists, the Palestinian terrorist organizations, stop the incitement and then the sky is the limit.

KING: Already there are European complaints that Mr. Bush is only sending a mid-level delegation to the Arafat funeral led by Assistant Secretary of State William Burns.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING: Officials here say there will be no doubt about the White House commitment to diplomacy once the Palestinians have chosen their new leadership but the administration also says it will not pretend it thought more highly of Mr. Arafat, a man the president has labeled an obstacle to peace and a terrorist -- Aaron.

BROWN: When they talk about there will be no question about a new emphasis on diplomacy what is it we're expecting to see?

KING: Well, they say the first cue has to come from the new Palestinian leadership. Ambassador Burns, while at the funeral, will tell the Palestinian delegation there that if they want help, U.S. technical assistance, any other assistance with the upcoming elections, the United States would be happy to provide it. If they want to do that in conjunction with the Europeans, the White House would be happy to do that.

In terms of diplomacy, actual meetings, the White House says the new Palestinian leadership has to first get itself in place, build some credibility with the Palestinian people. If they are ready for a meeting with Israel, if they want the White House to facilitate, if they raise their hands, the White House says it will be ready to cooperate if it sees a commitment to cracking down on terrorism and a commitment to actual peace.

BROWN: John, thank you, John King our Senior White House Correspondent at the White House tonight.

We'll have more on Arafat a little later in the program.

Coming up next on NEWSNIGHT, a whole lot of fuss over the movie "Saving Private Ryan," and how it lost its place in prime time on network television.

Also ahead, one of the most ghastly almost unbelievable stories of any war, the literal last day of World War I and why the fighting and the dying did not stop, a break first.

Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Just looking at those it's just the end of October. That doesn't include any of what's happened in Falluja over the last five days.

When the Federal Communications Commission was created 70 years ago, World War II was still five years away. Stephen Spielberg had not been born yet. The first Super Bowl wouldn't be played for another 33 years.

Tonight on this Veterans Day, all four have collided. ABC affiliates in at least eight states have decided not to air the Oscar winning movie "Saving Private Ryan" because they fear the Federal Communications Commission will fine them if they do.

If you've seen the movie, as millions have, you know about the graphic battle scenes and the raw language, the language of war. In the past, neither was an obstacle in prime time with proper warning. That was the past.

Here's CNN's Howard Kurtz.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) HOWARD KURTZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ABC has already aired the Oscar winning Stephen Spielberg film about a missing private during World War II on Veterans Day in 2001 and 2002 but that was then and this is now.

At least 20 ABC affiliate stations have refused to air "Private Ryan" tonight, including those owned by Cox Television, Belo, Hearst- Argyle and Scripps-Howard, serving such major markets as Atlanta and Dallas. Why the change of heart?

It all started with Janet Jackson. When the singer had her wardrobe malfunction at the Super Bowl there was a sufficient uproar that the Federal Communications Commission hit CBS-owned stations with a $550,000 fine.

Under Chairman Michael Powell, the FCC began speaking a language that media companies understand, money, by imposing much bigger fines for indecency. The commission ruled that the Golden Globe Awards carried live by NBC was profane because of this x-rated declaration from the singer Bono.

BONO: That's really, really (expletive) brilliant.

KURTZ: But a rerun of a prize-winning war movie? Long time motion picture lobbyist Jack Valenti scoffs at the notion of government fines.

JACK VALENTI, FMR. CEO MOTION PICTURE INDUSTRY OF AMERICA: I don't see anyway that the FCC would do that. It would be -- it would be a terrible -- it would be a terrible attack, a shameful attack on all these young men who lost their lives.

KURTZ: But local station executives are concerned about the film's violence and rough language and the FCC has refused to say in advance whether it deems the move offensive.

Says Scripps-Howard executive William Peterson: "Recent federal regulatory decisions on profanity appear to make it clear the Federal Communications Commission prohibits the broadcast of the type of profanity used in the movie. We do not believe we have the contractual right to edit the movie to remove the profanity."

KURTZ (on camera): The controversy comes as the war in Iraq drags on and American soldiers are fighting and dying in Falluja. Could some ABC stations be worried that "Private Ryan" might be too graphic a reminder for families of today's privates and other soldiers in Iraq? Or, are they simply more nervous about being shot down by the FCC?

Howard Kurtz, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Today a spokesman for Mr. Spielberg said: "It's ironic that this is happening on a day that we honor veterans. Saving Private Ryan has been cited as the truest realization of what war is really like. The film is a tribute to those who've served." Which brings us now to context does it matter, should it matter?

We're joined from Nashville, Tennessee tonight by Deb McDermott. She is the chairwoman of the ABC Television Affiliates Association and also the president of Young Broadcasting, which owns six ABC affiliates, none of which will show the broadcast. Nice to see you, welcome.

DEB MCDERMOTT, PRESIDENT, YOUNG BROADCASTING: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Look, you know, do you really believe that the FCC would have fined you or threatened license revocation over this?

MCDERMOTT: Yes. If you go back to the previous rulings that have happened in the last nine months, particularly with the Bono case, that ruling is very clear. It says that if you air any indecent language prior to 10:00 p.m. and it doesn't matter what context that it's aired in that you are doing something unlawful.

And so, therefore, that's why these stations have said I'm not going to take the chance. I'm not going to let my license be put in jeopardy because of the movie. I mean this is a fabulous movie. We all wanted to air this movie. And, you know, it's just been a change. We aired it twice before. It was unedited both times before.

BROWN: Here's -- I should keep my -- I guess, two cents out of this, but I'm not sure who I'm angrier at right now, the FCC for what I think is an absurd construction of its mandate, or you guys for not standing up and forcing the issue, because, at some point, it is an issue that needs to be forced.

It's one thing for a rock singer to do what Bono did. It's another thing for the context of this movie not to be allowed to be seen. Why not stand and fight?

MCDERMOTT: Well, there are some companies who have chosen to do that, and everybody met with their legal counsel. They talked about, what can we do? What should we be doing? And, you know, we walked away saying, we will not put our license in jeopardy.

And the FCC has made it very clear in that Bono ruling that they suggested that, if you do that, you will be in violation of their rules. And we are licensed by the FCC. This is not really about fines. This is about our license. And the law is very unclear, and this needs to be cleared up. The confusion needs to be cleared up.

You have all these stations who have chose not to air it. You have a lot of stations chosen to air it. And that shouldn't be happening. We ought to have a clear direction as to what we can air between 6:00 a.m. in the morning and 10:00 p.m. at night and serve our serve our communities and abide by the FCC regulations.

BROWN: Deb, I assume that broadcast groups like yours -- well, I don't know specifically yours, but certainly the affiliates, went to the FCC and said, look, tell us whether we're in trouble here or not. What did they say?

(CROSSTALK)

MCDERMOTT: Well, the FCC won't do that. They will not give program advisories before the program airs.

Their job is to look at what look at complaints that come in and then rule on those complaints. There, obviously, were calls made to the FCC to kind of see where see -- see what the temperature was.

BROWN: Yes.

MCDERMOTT: And it wasn't a universal temperature. So, you know, who knows when they'd rule on something like this. Often, complaints sit at the FCC for nine to 12 months before they're even brought to the attention and the ruling on that can happen even later than that. They'll probably be some changes at the FCC before then.

BROWN: When you aired the movie before, were there -- and there were lots of warnings about language, as there should be -- it's a pretty raw film in many ways. People ought to know that. Did people call and complain?

MCDERMOTT: There were complaints when they aired before. There was complaints filed with the FCC. And they did rule that it was OK to air. But the rules have changed since then.

BROWN: Yes.

MCDERMOTT: Nine months ago, the Bono ruling suggests differently, and that's what's caused all this confusion.

BROWN: Well, I don't at all envy the position that you all were put in. It's easy for me to sit here and say you ought to stand and fight and I know that and I know you know that. Hopefully, the result of this will be some clarification from the FCC, because, in truth, this is pretty nuts.

(CROSSTALK)

MCDERMOTT: We wanted to air this movie. And it's Veterans Day. It's an award-winning movie. It has got artistic, you know, excellence. And it's got historical significance. And we really did want to air this movie.

And we've gotten lots of complaints and calls today from viewers who also wanted to watch the movie. And it's just -- you know, it's not fair for us to be sitting in this position where we don't know where the FCC is on this issue and how it's going to impact our licenses.

BROWN: Deb, thanks for your time tonight. Good luck.

MCDERMOTT: I appreciate it. Thanks. Bye.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Thank you. Deb McDermott, who is the president of the affiliates board for that deals with the network, in this case, ABC. And that's pretty amazing stuff, if you ask me.

Still ahead tonight, more on Yasser Arafat, where his death leaves a very complicated part of the world, and a look back at the final, horrible hours of the war that was supposed to end all wars, 86 years ago to the day, Armistice Day, which was anything but.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Back to Yasser Arafat now, missed opportunities and all the rest.

We're joined by Lisa Beyer, who covers the region and the story for "TIME" magazine, spent the day writing the obituary for next week's magazine.

I said at the top that it is fascinating to look at how he was described today, vilified by plenty, lionized by some. Is it just a matter of perspective or was he, in fact, a little of both?

LISA BEYER, "TIME": Well, it's both a matter of perspective and it's also a matter of which period in his life you look at. Was Arafat a terrorist? Yes, certainly at a certain point in his life, in the beginning of his leadership of the Palestinian Liberation Organization. And then for a while, he wasn't, and then he returned to it again in the last few years.

BROWN: Why?

(CROSSTALK)

BEYER: I think because he decided at the time of the Camp David peace talks that he -- in order to make an agreement, a final agreement, for a Palestinian state, was going to have to make such deep concessions to the Israelis over demands that have come to be felt as sacred demands among the Palestinians, notably the right of return and Palestinian rights to traditionally Arab East Jerusalem, that he didn't want to be the one who did that.

He prepared -- he was prepared for his legacy to be that of a revolutionary and not of the guy who sold out Palestinian rights.

BROWN: So, in the end, you would guess that he never imagined that he would preside over the Palestinian state he fought for? He would have been content to have fought for the right of return or whatever until to the very end?

BEYER: No. I think he imagined at the beginning of the peace process that he would preside over a Palestinian state. I can't imagine he would have engaged in the Oslo accords if he hadn't imagined that.

BROWN: But in the last three, four years?

BEYER: I think it was a combination of things. For one thing, he didn't realize how bad of a deal he'd signed. I remember interviewing Arafat after we made him man of the year in 1993 after the Oslo peace agreements, and he insisted to me that when he got to the Gaza Strip, he was going to have sovereignty over the Gaza Strip. And I pointed out that the accord gave him no such. It gave him limited self-rule. And he yelled at me and said, don't you think I know what I have read?

Well, it turned out he hadn't read it. He didn't realize what a poor deal it was. What's more, once he got into the territories and began having to be the governor of the Palestinians, he realized how little he liked it and how ill-suited he was to that job. He liked to flit around and talk to diplomats and make speeches.

BROWN: So he liked being like a rock star diplomat? He liked the aura of power. He certainly liked having power. He didn't cede much power. He didn't like the day-to-day grind of the work?

BEYER: Absolutely not.

BROWN: Yes.

BEYER: But more to the point, I think, as he got into the grind of the peace process and understood that the Israelis were going to fight him every step of the way, it became increasingly hard to sell Oslo and the agreements that followed Oslo to his people.

And, again, when he just at the end of his days faced his own mortality and the fact that his legacy, if he made a final deal with the Israelis, was going to be as a man who sold certain Palestinian rights, who gave up certain Palestinian rights, I think he just didn't have the courage to do it.

BROWN: What's the first line in the obituary? Can you tell me?

(LAUGHTER)

BEYER: Yes. Yasser Arafat's favorite television show was "Tom and Jerry." And the reason? Because the mouse always won.

BROWN: That's a great line.

BEYER: Thank you.

BROWN: Nice to meet you.

BEYER: Nice to see you.

BROWN: Thanks for coming in. Thank you. I look forward to reading that this weekend.

A quick look now at a couple of other stories that made news around the country today. A woman was apparently kidnapped at a mall in Corona, California. This is an abduction that was caught on tape. As you're about to see, the woman was in a mall parking lot on the sidewalk on the right. When a car pulled up next to her, she ran off, but one of the men in the car chased her down and tossed her into the trunk.

And here's where it gets maddening, if that isn't maddening enough. No one called police. A mall security officer finally did. Police are trying to identify the woman and, obviously, they are trying to find those who kidnapped her.

Good news for Delta Airlines. They may not have to file for bankruptcy, at least until next year, which I guess qualifies for good news in the airlines business these days. Pilots for the airlines have agreed to cutting their pay by more than 30 percent. That and other concessions could save the nation's third largest airline $5 billion over the next five years.

Still ahead tonight, the 11th of November, 1918, World War I and NEWSNIGHT's Nissen.

And the 12th of November, 2004, morning papers will wrap up the hour.

We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: With the country now at war, Veterans Day is neither holiday, nor history. Instead, sadly, it the history in the making.

The happenings on this 11th of November to be remembered on the next, to be remembered and built upon and yet again in kind of memorial to the necessity and sometimes the folly of killing and dying and sacrifice. And on close inspection, all wars, the good ones and the bad ones, are all those things. Some, however, are all of those things in such great numbers that they give birth to days like today, called Veterans Day now, but something else back then.

The pictures here come from The History Channel, the reporting from NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): November 11, 1918, Armistice Day. Cheering crowds on five continents celebrated the end of the great war, four years of fighting so bloody, few words in the human vocabulary can describe it.

JOSEPH PERSICO, HISTORIAN: The casualties are stupefying. We just can't grasp them in human terms. Seven million of the wounded are permanently blinded, disfigured, lose limbs. Nine million are killed.

NISSEN: Nine million. The story of the last few thousand of those lost is one of the most appalling of this or any war. Historian Joseph Persico has written a detailed account of the great war's last today.

PERSICO: The armistice is signed 5:00 on the morning of November 11. It is agreed that it will take force at 11:00 that morning. And what happens during those six hours? Senseless killing.

NISSEN: Some allied officers, determined to take every last shot at the enemy, deliberately withheld news of the armistice from their men. Those offices officers included this young American artillery captain.

PERSICO: Harry S. Truman does not tell his men for that very reason. He's afraid that they will just unwind, and they still have got a job to do until 11:00.

NISSEN: Other ambitious generals, eager for a last shot at personal glory, ordered their troops to fight their way into terribly they could have walked into peacefully just hours later.

At dawn on the 11th, American General Charles Summerall ordered the 5th Army Corps to cross the Miers (ph) River under heavy German fire. The cost, 1,000 Doughboys wounded, 120 killed on the last morning of the war.

At 10:00 a.m., only an hour before the war's end, the all-black 92nd Infantry Division was ordered to leave a wooded area they held and make a full frontal assault on the Germans.

PERSICO: They're going to attack into machine gunfire and the reaction among these men was absolute horror.

NISSEN: The cost, 190 casualties. All along the western front, allied troops were ordered to keep fighting a war they'd already won.

PERSICO: The loss of life on this last day was inexplicable and indefensible. There are 10, 900 casualties; 2,700 men die on the last day of the war.

NISSEN: A number of deaths greater than those recorded on D-Day. In the fields across from the great war, historians find lessons, the need to plan for a war's end, an especially complex challenge in modern wars.

PERSICO: The frustrating thing is that there have not been clear-cut, decisive ends to them. They seem to either peter out. They're ragged. They leave resentful and bitter remnants, and this is what we're seeing in Iraq today.

NISSEN: Another lesson: Know exactly why you're fighting.

BEYER: The Tommies, the British soldiers, they would sing to the melody of "Auld Lang Syne." "We're here because we're here because we're here because we're here." And throughout four years, there never seemed to be a better reason.

NISSEN: And the overriding lesson, constantly calculate costs. Can the losses of a platoon, a division, a generation bring real and long-term gains? They didn't in World War I. Just 20 years later, the world was fighting again.

PERSICO: One can reach a rather grim conclusion that, what do wars teach us? What are the lessons of war? The major lesson appears to be that no lesson is ever learned.

NISSEN: Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers after the break.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: A couple of themes in the morning papers, as you will see as we start going through them. I don't know that I've ever started it that way. I always start it the same way. Okeydokey, time to check -- well, you know how I do this.

"Christian Science Monitor." "New Rebel Tactics Emerge in Falluja. Marines Faced a Tough Fight Yesterday as Insurgents Began Counterattack Timed With Islamic Holy Night." Also, Yasser Arafat on the front page.

"The Washington Times," the other newspaper in Washington. "Abbas on Track to Succeed Arafat" is the lead. "Palestinians Fill Streets. Funeral Set For Cairo." Middle of the page, "U.S. Suspects Many Insurgents Have Fled. Escape Foils Attempt to Kill Off Enemy." Why would anyone be surprised at that? There's 10,000 Marines out there. There's 3,000 of you. You going to hang around? I don't think so.

"The Philadelphia Inquirer." "As Arafat Era, Closes, An Opening." We can only hope so. They also put Veterans Day on the front page, "Honoring Those Who Served." ' "San Antonio Express News." This is a good story on the front page. I'm coming to like this paper. "Ultimate Sacrifices." These are profiles right at the top there of three young and I assume local San Antonio area guys who have died in the war. And they profile each of them. More newspapers should do that. Many do. It's just the respectful thing to do.

"The Rocky Mountain News" has kind of an off lead. "Frequent Fliers. State's Congressional Delegation Nets 39 Free Trips to 10 Countries Since 2000." I'm sure all of those were on important business. Also, take a look at picture on the front page. "Heartfelt Tribute to America's Veterans." This at Fort Logan in Colorado. That's a very nice shot. Who shot that? Does it say? Todd Heisler of "The Rocky Mountain News." Nice work, Todd.

"The Oregonian" out West in Portland. "Casualties Mount in Fight For Falluja" is their lead. They also put Veterans Day. "A Fine Town For a Parade in Albany, Oregon." And nice parade there today. I wonder if kids even get kind of what this day is about. Who knows.

"Santa Rosa News" out in Santa Rose, New Mexico. They also grieve. "Community Grieves For Victims of U.S. 84 Crash," a local car crash. And, by the way, schools are closed there tomorrow. So, if you're -- you can stay up a little later and watch the end of the segment.

"Taxed to the Max, While Fat Cat Developers Get All the Breaks" is the lead in "The Boston Herald," the tabloid in Boston.

Fifteen seconds? Are you kidding me? OK. We'll end it, then.

And how do we end it? The weather in Chicago tomorrow...

(CHIMES)

BROWN: I love that thing. "Make the most of it" is what "The Sun-Times" says, 45 degrees in Chicago tomorrow.

We'll wrap it up and make the most of it right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Quick program note.

Tomorrow on NEWSNIGHT, we'll hear from the always fascinating and always dapper Tom Wolfe. His new novel explores college life in the 21st century, runs nearly 700 pages. We'll talk with him about why he wrote it and much more.

And here's a sample.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TOM WOLFE, AUTHOR, "I AM CHARLOTTE SIMMONS": I shouldn't admit this, but it's all the suits. It's all the white suits.

(LAUGHTER)

WOLFE: I found earlier the great dividend -- and I started wearing them by accident -- but was that I would be interviewed about something I had written and I didn't say very much. I didn't know what to say to these interviewers. But they would go away saying, what an interesting man. He wears these white suits.

So they have been great. These white suits have just been great for me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Well, not just a nice set of threads, not by a long shot. He's terrific. It's an interesting interview and we'll run that tomorrow, much more as well. We hope you'll join us.

"LOU DOBBS TONIGHT" next for most of you.

Until then, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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