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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Making the Long Journey Home From Iraq; Interview With Pete Hamill

Aired February 04, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
There is a maxim in advertising. It kind of goes like this. Always undersell and overdeliver. But, at the risk of angering the gods of marketing or modesty, there is no way of overselling the program tonight. It begins with snapshots from the long and challenging journey for the people of Iraq and the troops who serve there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): A young democracy counts the distance in votes between then and now. A young family adjusts to the life between then and now. Two sides of the same war. Where do their stories go from here?

It looks like a feeding frenzy in Washington.

FRED WERTHEIMER, DEMOCRACY 21: This sounds like a very raw, audacious and inappropriate way to raise political money in Washington.

O'BRIEN: A lawmaker with such an appetite for campaign money, even the lobbyists are taking notice. And the real scandal, its all perfectly legal.

And he's never kicked a field goal himself, but he's teaching Super Bowl placekickers to put their best feet forward.

DOUG BLEVINS, DOUG BLEVINS KICKING AND PUNTING CAMP: Good job, Daniel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with the one advantage that neither the Eagles, nor the Patriots will enjoy this weekend, being home. Getting there can be tough. By now, you've probably met some of the young men and women making the long journey home from Iraq. It's a journey that often passes through military hospitals and burn units.

Tonight, a reminder that there's a life waiting for them when they get home. And it can be a good life.

Here's CNN's Frank Buckley. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He looks like any other MBA student at Notre Dame until you see how Jason Frei was wounded in Iraq. It happened just days after the war began, just moments after this picture was taken. In March 2003, Marine Captain Jason Frei was commanding an artillery battery racing through Iraq. Frei was sitting in the passenger seat of this Humvee when a rocket- propelled grenade slammed in to its side.

CAPT. JASON FREI, U.S. MARINES: The RPG came in from the back and just took my arm off.

BUCKLEY: The door of the Humvee is on display at Camp Pendleton. Frei showed it to us last summer

J. FREI: The RPG came in, you can see here, from the back and it hit the door right here and probably came through -- now, my arm stops about here. It came through and hit me there, and the blast took off most of my hand and a good chunk of my foreman.

BUCKLEY: It was a life-threatening moment that would force a life-changing decision. The Naval Academy graduate, the career Marine, chose to leave the Marine Corps.

(on camera): How difficult was that for you to walk away from that?

J. FREI: Yes. That was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Because you're not in the Marines. You are a Marine.

BUCKLEY (voice-over): But Frei knew that, while he was leaving one family, the Marine Corps, his other family was growing. His 3- year-old Molly (ph) and four-year-old Robby (ph) gained a new brother, Tommy (ph), who was born after Frei came home from the war.

J. FREI: That's a gift. And every day when I come home and you see them, you're just like, wow, that's something -- that's a person that might not have happened.

BUCKLEY: Because Frei didn't die on that battlefield in Iraq. And losing a hand hasn't kept him from living. He counsels future officers in the ROTC about what he's experienced. He'll have an MBA from Notre Dame in 2006.

(on camera): And he is still leading. Fellow MBA students elected him class president.

BUCKLEY: He's become so used to using the prosthetic that replaced his arm that Jason's wife, Valerie, says he refuses her help.

(on camera): Jason says he can do anything. Is that true?

(LAUGHTER)

VALERIE FREI, WIFE OF JASON: Almost anything. He cannot juggle anymore. And the other thing he cannot do is walk across the street holding his little girl and little boy's hands. He's adapted to that. And now he says hooks and hands, hooks and hands. And they take his hook and they take his hand and he can walk them across the street.

BUCKLEY (voice-over): Before the war, Valerie had videotaped Jason playing with the children.

(MUSIC)

BUCKLEY: Not just to remind them of daddy, but also just in case, that fear nearly realized when the RPG hit. But the ambush that nearly killed him, that did take his arm, left Jason Frei more grateful than ever about the family he loves and the life he still has.

J. FREI: Until you have something that important to you almost taken away, I don't think you can really appreciate it. And I'm very thankful for the things I have.

BUCKLEY: Frank Buckley, CNN, South Bend, Indiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: On next to Iraq itself, where election results are firming up. But as the vote tally rises, so, too, are the complications and potentially the fuel for sectarian conflict.

Reporting from Baghdad tonight, here's CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Apparent losers in the election so far, supporters of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Although far from conclusive, partial results from the provinces so far counted in the predominantly Shiite south indicate the firebrand cleric is making a poor showing. His supporters, as they have done when they've appeared marginalized before, upping the ante, calling for U.S. troops to leave.

HASHIM ABU TAGIF, AIDE TO MUQTADA AL-SADR (through translator): I call on all political and religious forces that embolden and contribute to the elections to put a time frame on the occupation.

ROBERTSON: Out ahead in all 10 provinces partially tallied, the United Iraqi Alliance, supported by Iraq's top religious leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. A poor second of the 3.3 million votes so far counted, Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's more secular political grouping, the Iraqi List. But electoral commission officials warn, results so far cannot be used to predict the final outcome.

Also in Baghdad, an Italian journalist was kidnapped. Giuliana Sgrena was snatched at gunpoint from her car just after talking with displaced families from Falluja at the city's university. An experienced reporter and knowledgeable about Iraq, her editors in Rome hope her common touch will help keep her safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And her editors are working the phones, calling aid agencies and others in Baghdad, trying to ascertain where she is. However, so far, the police here say they don't have any leads on exactly which group kidnapped her, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Nic Robertson for us this evening -- Nic, thank you very much for that update.

At home, an illustration of Kinsley's law. The political commentator Michael Kinsley famously once wrote that, in Washington, the real scandal lies is what is legal. And to the best of our knowledge, what you're about to see is absolutely, perfectly legal.

Here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Guess who's coming to dinner? Lobbyists, lots of lobbyists. A ritual that plays out at fancy restaurants across Washington nearly every night. But lobbyists invited to this fund-raiser say it's out of the ordinary.

And three lobbyists at the event tell CNN that Democratic Senator Max Baucus threw this reception to reel in 50 lobbyists willing to raise $100,000 each. That would translate into $5 million for Baucus' campaign. Two veteran lobbyists, who didn't want to come on camera because of the sensitivity of their relationships with Baucus, say they have never gotten such an aggressive pitch from a senator, especially one from a state like Montana, which has less expensive media markets.

Fred Wertheimer, who has been tracking campaign finance since 1972, says such sums are normally only raised in this way for presidential candidates. While the fund-raising is not illegal, Wertheimer has never heard of a senator raising money like this.

WERTHEIMER: Well, this sounds like a very raw, audacious and inappropriate way to raise political money in Washington. Lobbyists are always looking for opportunities to give money to influential legislators. But when you take it to the approach of systematizing it to raise very large sums of money from lobbyists who you know are looking for favors and influence, that's a very dangerous situation.

HENRY: But Democratic lobbyists say Baucus can be bold because he's in a powerful position. He serves as top Democrat on the Finance Committee, which oversees all of the Social Security, tax and health proposals laid out in President Bush's State of the Union.

And top Republican leaders like Tom DeLay have been outspoken about not granting access to Democratic lobbyists. So they desperately need allies like Baucus.

(on camera): We tried to ask Senator Baucus about his fund- raising practices. But after some of the lobbyists tipped him off to our waiting cameras, the senator's staff hustled him in and out of the event through a side door.

(voice-over): CNN then called the senator's office, but our requests for an interview were denied. Baucus' staff finally directed a top official at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee to speak to us. While the official did not dispute the lobbyist's account of the event, he said Baucus did absolutely nothing inappropriate.

PHIL SINGER, DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE: Senator Baucus been one of the foremost campaign finance reformers on Capitol Hill. He co-sponsored the McCain-Feingold legislation, which fundamentally changed the way money is raised in Washington. Any insinuation that there is some sort of quid pro quo at play is just demonstrably false.

HENRY: But some lobbyists contend that reform has not changed the system much. They say it's just the price tag that just keeps changing every election cycle. As one lobbyist who attended the Baucus event told CNN -- quote -- "It get more ridiculous every two years."

Back in 1987, the top Democrat on the Finance Committee was Lloyd Bentsen. He invited 50 lobbyists to breakfast for $10,000 a piece. After an uproar, Bentsen returned the money.

LLOYD BENTSEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't make any mistakes, but that one was a real doozy.

HENRY: Some Democrats griped that, since Baucus is not up for reelection until 2008, he should not be sucking up money that could go to colleagues facing the voters next year.

But Baucus' friends say he hails from a red state. And with the Republicans raising big money to defeat him, it's never too early to get ready. In fact, the senator is having another fund-raiser this very weekend at a Montana resort. Lobbyists will go skiing and snowboarding with the senator and watch the Super Bowl with him, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY: The lobbyists who were asked to round up $100,000 are only legally allowed to contribute $4,000 out of their own pocket. To find the other $96,000, they now have to convince 24 friends to give $4,000 each. That's why many of these lobbyists are saying the McCain-Feingold law didn't get rid of big money. It just shifted the burden to them -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ed Henry at the Capitol this morning -- Ed, thanks a lot.

Ahead on our program tonight, we're going to have our regular Friday night conversation, Aaron spending some quality time with the ultimate New Yorker, Pete Hamill. And, later, Jeff Greenfield with more of his exclusive interview with the ultimate Californian.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A landmark legal decision could mean that gay couples could soon marry in New York. In a 62-page ruling, a judge held that the law banning same-sex marriage violates the state Constitution's guarantee of due process and equal protection. The judge applied a 30-day stay to give time for appeals.

One of the five couples in the case, Mary Jo Kennedy and Jo-Ann Shain, said they were overjoyed by the ruling and the legal protection it would create for them and their daughter, Alia (ph).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never thought it would happen in my lifetime. I never did. And I'm very proud to be a part of it. And I'm very excited. And I want to credit my -- our daughter Alia (ph), because she's the one that had the courage to talk us into it. We're like older, more cautious, more stayed, and she's, like, you know -- she said, go for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go for it!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, she says you deserve it.

QUESTION: Alia, how do you feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do I feel? I feel very excited. They deserve it more than any people in the world. And I love them so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Today's ruling only applies to New York City. But if upheld on appeal, it would apply throughout New York state.

The University of Colorado's interim chancellor is ordering a review of Professor Ward Churchill's controversial remarks, remarks he made in an essay about 9/11 in which he asserted that the attacks were what he called natural and unavoidable consequence of unlawful U.S. policy.

Among other things, he called many of those killed in New York's World Trade Center little Eichmanns, a reference to Adolf Eichmann, who masterminded the Nazi plan to exterminate Jews during World War II.

Tonight, Paula Zahn spoke with Professor Churchill about how these statements upset the relatives of those died on 9/11 and asked him if he intends to retract his statement or even apologize.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARD CHURCHILL, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO: I don't believe I owe them an apology, because I don't believe I included their families, the people you're talking about, in. I think some other people have very conscientiously attempted to put those words in my mouth. And I think it may be that quite a number of people who have been impugning things to me that I didn't actually say could well and truly owe an apology. Media sources that have me calling for the deaths of millions of Americans. Nowhere in there do I do that.

My object is to figure out if we're going to solve this problem, how to go about it. And first thing is to understand the nature of the response. And my thesis basically was that any people subjected to the kind of degradation, devaluation and dehumanization, say the Iraqis, or say the Palestinians, will either respond in kind, or people will respond in their name in kind. And it doesn't matter whether they're Arabs or they're Americans. And that actually in the last 10 days has been -- well, actually more like five days...

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

CHURCHILL: ... has been borne out pretty thoroughly.

ZAHN: OK...

CHURCHILL: There's terrorism being undertaken in the name of the 9/11 families, OK, because people are outraged.

ZAHN: We have time for just one brief last question, professor. Do you think you're going to end up being fired?

CHURCHILL: Actually I don't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, Colorado Governor Bill Owens is calling for Churchill to be fired.

It's hardly surprising that Ward Churchill's comments have angered so many New Yorkers. Whether native born or transplant, all New Yorkers become part of the community of the city, especially in the days since 9/11.

In this week's NEWSNIGHT conversation, Aaron Brown talks to journalist and novelist Pete Hamill, a child of immigrants who has been writing about the city for nearly half a century.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: What is it about New York that captivates people in Omaha and people in Ukraine and people in Warsaw and people in Twisp, Washington? What is it about New York that makes it the capital of the world, to New Yorkers, at least?

PETE HAMILL, AUTHOR, "DOWNTOWN: MY MANHATTAN": I think it's because it's also the capital of people who are not like you, so that everybody in his or her own way can feel comfortable here. It's not as if you come to New York and everybody's got a New York I.D. card. They don't have it. They come from all the nations of the planet.

But they have learned something about this city and themselves in it, which they pass on to the new arrivals and to the people they left behind, too.

BROWN: I think you and I talked about this once. I was -- I've been here 14 years now. It took me a while to get it, I think. And it wasn't until after 9/11, and I mean right after, the weeks after 9/11, that I began to see in New York not this balkanized place of Italian Americans over here and Dominicans up there and the Irish down here, but that there was, in fact, there is, in fact, a community here that I just didn't see until that horrible...

HAMILL: September 12.

BROWN: Yes.

HAMILL: September 12, we saw it.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: And you couldn't miss it on September 12.

HAMILL: Yes. Right, because people went back to work.

And not only just only the Chinese went back to work or the Mexicans or the Anglo-Saxon Protestants from the 17th century. Everybody went back to work. It was something about the city and the way it's constructed psychologically, as well as physically, that said, how do we react to this? We go back to work.

And doing that, I think, and understanding that makes it possible for people from anywhere to understand -- to feel like they have a piece of New York. The thing I always have tried in my own work was to make Americans feel like it's theirs, too. It's not just the New York tribe that owns this place. It's Americans. It doesn't mean they have to live here, any more than I have to go to Yellowstone National Park to be an American.

BROWN: Yes.

You've written about the city in all sorts of different ways. You've written journalism in the city. You've written novels that are centered in the city. The current book deals with your vision or your view of a part of the city. But do you think of it as a tough town or a gentle town that people misunderstand?

HAMILL: I think it's a tough town, but not a mean town.

The old New Yorker, the last thing an old New Yorker would do is talk tough, because real tough guys don't talk tough. They are tough.

BROWN: Yes.

HAMILL: But they don't talk a game of toughness. And so -- and that also was seen after September 11. My feeling is that there's a misunderstanding of it based on the movies and so on.

When I was a kid, it was William Bendix was playing the guy from Brooklyn. BROWN: Yes.

HAMILL: And we kept saying, wait a minute. Red Barber is from Brooklyn, even though he was from Alabama.

(LAUGHTER)

HAMILL: But there's a New York stereotype and there' a Southern stereotype. And I think all of us have to deal with something that William Faulkner once said about Mississippi, that loved it in spite of, not because.

And I think New Yorkers love New York in spite of irritations, aggravations, occasionally dangers, occasional idiots that come down the street. But, in spite of all those things, they love it. And I think people have to respect that, the way it's up to me as a New Yorker to respect Mississippi for what Faulkner saw it and for the South for what it is and always will be and what it becomes as it goes along.

BROWN: We're talking to Pete Hamill.

We'll take a break. Our Friday conversation continues in a moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We have a few more minutes with Pete Hamill.

You're 69, pushing 70. You're neither young nor old. Do you feel in a rush? Do you feel the clock ticking on all the things you imagined you would do in your life?

HAMILL: Yes.

I mean, there's things I still -- I'm never going to get around to doing. I'll never get to know St. Petersburg the way Dostoyevsky did. It's just impossible. There's not enough time now. But I've had this extraordinary life as a newspaper man, both seeing the horror and seeing the triumph and seeing the glory of human beings in small ways, in large ways. I had a ringside seat at history.

But, at the other hand, on the other hand, I saw how amazingly decent human beings can be. I come from that generation. I was 10 when World War II ended. And it was that generation that said, we can do anything. And the G.I. bill said, you can, and allowed a lot of us to do something our fathers and grandfathers couldn't even imagine.

The children of automobile workers and factory workers could read Spinoza, too, at the university. That was some amazing promise America gave us and kept it. So, I feel that my mother and father, as immigrants, did not make a mistake. It was the country it said it was.

BROWN: Can you imagine what your life would have been like if you had not become a newspaper man, by the way?

HAMILL: I can't. I mean, I...

BROWN: I mean, have you ever -- I've known lots of people in my business. And there are few who, to me, so personify what it means to be a newspaper man, a journalist, but really a newspaper guy, as you.

HAMILL: I try to imagine. I imagine myself as a cop or a painter or any number of things, an actor or something.

But I love the idea of getting through a life as if I was double- parked. And that's being a newspaper man, to be able to have the adrenaline, the flow, and be able -- one other thing. My mother -- one day, my brother Tommy and I, during World War II, were going to the West Side with her. And we laughed at some guy who we in those days called a bum, would now be a homeless guy.

And she said -- she got very angry with us. She said, never look down on anybody unless you're giving them a hand to get up. And newspapers gave me a chance to do that. I could use a newspaper to give a guy a hand to get up. And I think that was an honorable way to live a life, not that I was always honorable or that I always did the right thing. I don't mean that. But it was an opportunity to help the people you share the planet with.

BROWN: Particularly when you get to your age, what we say is that you've lived a full life.

HAMILL: This is true.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Sometimes, it was hard. You played hard.

HAMILL: And regrets, I've had a few.

BROWN: Well...

HAMILL: As Sinatra said.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: The nice thing about being healthy and your age is that you can actually say I've had a few regrets and not feel like that's some great tragedy in life. That's just part of living.

Do you like modern journalism, today's journalism? Does it make you uncomfortable, proud?

HAMILL: I like parts of it. Obviously, there's parts that make me very uneasy. I don't like the use of the computer at the expense of legs, of going out and seeing human beings one at a time, if you can do that. BROWN: Yes.

HAMILL: I'd like to see a mixture of it. Of course, the computer is also one of the greatest tools we ever got our hands on.

I'd like more kids to be filled with the romance of it and not worry about the pension plan or what retirement will be like, you know, to go out and kick the door down and make the world yell.

BROWN: It's -- I say this to you every time I see you. It's wonderful to see you. It's wonderful to see you looking well.

Best of luck on the book. For people who have either a literal affection for New York or want to get it, what it is about, the capital of the world, it's a great read and it's great to see you.

HAMILL: Thanks. Thanks for having me again.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, the Air Force training for a ground mission, one of the most dangerous missions in Iraq.

And a man who can take some credit for the Super Bowl win no matter which team ends up on top. A great story of personal triumph.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: There's a rule in the military. You go where they tell you. There's a law of the larger world. Not even the military can ignore it, the law of supply and demand. This story and these people live where those two laws intersect.

As CNN's Ed Lavandera reports, it is a very dangerous place to be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAPT. MARIA ROBERTS, AIR FORCE: Hey, good job, you guys. Keep it up.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's up to Air Force Captain Maria Roberts to make the unit she commands work like a finely tuned machine.

ROBERTS: Kill box was real good. It was a medevac and evening.

LAVANDERA: Roberts and this unit are just weeks away from taking on one of the most dangerous jobs in Iraq.

ROBERTS: We're practicing our mission of providing escort security. LAVANDERA: That means keep of food, gas and supplies secure, so U.S. ground forces get what they need. Roberts has logistic experience, but never in combat. To prepare, these Air Force unit are being put through a four-week-long training course at Camp Bullis in San Antonio, Texas.

(on camera): Nearly 1,000 members of the Air Force have been through this combat convoy training course since last summer. It's a new mission, helping out the Army because of a shortage of soldiers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will see the insurgent off to the right side.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The corps simulates convoy runs. In this scene, a roadside bomb strikes a military vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're moving in position to cover them.

LAVANDERA: The unit circles the trucks to protect the convoy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ammo.

LAVANDERA: Twenty-one-year-old Adam Giran locks onto the insurgent. Others rescue the injured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On three. One, two, three.

LAVANDERA: The course isn't just about moving a convoy. There's medical training, learning how to set an I.V. to keep a comrade alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get them in. Go. Go. All right?

LAVANDERA: Also hand-to-hand combat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grab it. Redirect. Get down. Get down.

LAVANDERA: It's a far cry from work most of them have ever had in the military.

AIRMAN 1ST CLASS ADAM GIRAN, AIR FORCE: It's not someone they tell you in the first place right when you sign those papers.

LAVANDERA: Airman 1st Class Giran had never touched a .50- caliber machine gun until two months ago. He spent his first year in the Air Force on a security team in Alaska. Then he was told to prepare for a mission in Iraq operating the rear gunner spot on a convoy.

GIRAN: You know you're the one on the truck, but you've got the rest of your soldiers' back and you might be the reason they get out safe.

MASTER SGT. PHILIP COOLBERTH, AIR FORCE: I've not had any airman step up and actually say, this is not why I joined. I don't want to do this. Are they scared? You bet. We are, too. But they're confident. And that's what will get them through the mission. LAVANDERA: So far, Captain Roberts likes what she sees.

ROBERTS: It's really intense. Every single day is a building block. Every single day, we're learning new things.

LAVANDERA: Many of these airmen used to have jobs far away from the front lines. But, in war, they're learning the call to duty can come any time.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Camp Bullis, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, part two of Jeff Greenfield's special report on Arnold Schwarzenegger and his one-of-a-kind political appeal. Plus, the man who coached two stars to the Super Bowl. It would seem impossible if it weren't true.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Last night, in his interview with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jeff Greenfield took a look at how Schwarzenegger wants to change the Golden State. Tonight, what makes this governor as different from other governors as California is different from other states. It isn't just the looks or the cigars or the accent.

Here now with part two of his exclusive interview is CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you, Arnold.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): It's a pretty safe bet that if most governors walked up the steps of the state Capitol, they would not be greeted this way by hundreds of school kids, assuming that is, any of those kids or their teachers or anyone else, could pick their governor out of a crowd.

But this is Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose political appeal is one of a kind. Just as Don Perata, the leader of the California State Senate, the Democratic leader.

DON PERATA (D), CALIFORNIA STATE SENATOR: He can capture the imagination of not only the state, but the country. And he is able to do things that none of us can do. He goes to Washington and he has people in Congress ask him for his autograph, for crying out loud.

GREENFIELD: Or Tom Campbell, the governor's finance director and former Republican congressman.

TOM CAMPBELL, CALIFORNIA STATE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE: He connects with the people, more so than any politician in any context that I've seen, national or state of California. GREENFIELD (on camera): It's not just that Schwarzenegger is utterly unlike almost any other political figure. It's how he came to power, the promises he made and implied, and how remarkably self-aware he is about the source of that power.

(voice-over): Schwarzenegger became governor in the fall of 2003, when Californians for the first time voted to recall the governor they had elected less than a year before and chose a man best known for his bodybuilding career and his action movie roles. His entrance was not only unique. He announced his candidacy on "The Tonight Show."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TODAY SHOW")

GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: When I go to Sacramento, I will pump up Sacramento.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: But it enabled him to run without winning a Republican primary, where his liberal views on abortion, gun control, gay rights and stem cell research might have given him problems. Indeed, he delights in painting himself above the political battle. When he urges that judges, not the legislature, apportion seats for the legislature in Congress, he takes pride in opposition from both parties.

SCHWARZENEGGER: Whenever you see both parties disagree with something, then you know you're on to something really good. See, that's the ultimate, Jeff. I love that. Then you know that this must be really good for the people of California.

I will be actively involved in that.

GREENFIELD: Or consider how he talks about selling his proposals on merit pay for teachers or changing the pension rules for state workers or school funding. Most politicians recoil at talking about marketing almost as much as they engage in it. Not Arnold.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I believe in marketing, in publicizing, in selling, because you can have the best product in the world, but if people don't know about it, you have nothing.

GREENFIELD: In fact, he often points to lessons he learned from his acting days.

SCHWARZENEGGER: In acting, they always talk about that. Don't have the words come out of your mouth. You have it come from your gut. And it's the same old in politics.

GREENFIELD (on camera): Is your physicality -- I don't mean in any threatening way. Is it an advantage?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I think that my physicality is a huge advantage, not only because visually speaking. I think it gives you a certain confidence, and, therefore, you carry yourself completely differently than a guy that has not been on that stage. And then you're also proud of yourself. You say, this is what I've accomplished, so you carry yourself with much more confidence and with much more authority.

GREENFIELD: And they believe in you maybe more than a 5'9'' politician who has spent too many times at the buffet table?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I'm not going to answer that, because Danny DeVito is watching right now and he's going to not forgive me for that one.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHWARZENEGGER: So, anyway, so, this is where most of the action takes place.

GREENFIELD (voice-over): But as Schwarzenegger begins to fight for his package of change, a recent poll suggests potential political trouble for the governor, although his approval ratings do remain high.

Longtime California political journalist Dan Weintraub:

DAN WEINTRAUB, "SACRAMENTO BEE": What's happening is that the electorate is beginning to view Schwarzenegger in a more partisan light. Democrats in California are starting to peel away from him compared to a year ago.

GREENFIELD: State treasurer Phil Angelides, who wants to unseat the governor next year:

PHILIP ANGELIDES, CALIFORNIA STATE TREASURER: You know, he's now in a position not of celebrity, but of responsibility. So the markers that will apply to him by everyone, no matter who he is, is he a person of truthfulness? And I think that's in doubt today.

GREENFIELD: Senator Democratic Leader Perata says the jury is still out on Schwarzenegger's performance, but he does not minimize the governor's political assets.

PERATA: He's got the heart of an immigrant and he's got the courage and the confidence of -- I've never seen -- I've never been around anybody who has more self-confidence and less arrogance than Arnold Schwarzenegger.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I have no doubt in my mind.

GREENFIELD: And does that self-confidence translate into a future presidential run, should the Constitution be amended to permit foreign-born citizens to run? One step at a time, he says.

SCHWARZENEGGER: And I think that this was the way I always handled my life. I never really kept too many things in focus. It was always keeping the eye on the ball. And everything that was left and right was kind of out of focus and I didn't pay any attention to it. GREENFIELD: Maybe, but watching Schwarzenegger at the GOP Convention last year, you have to believe that there are at least half-a-dozen prominent Republicans with their eyes on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue who are fervently hoping that the Constitution stays just the way it is.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, Sacramento.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, new developments in that story of child abuse out of Florida today. We'll update that in a moment.

And there's an insult you hear a lot. Those who can't do teach. We're going to meet one guy who can't do, but has taught the very best.

From around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The Super Bowl, like the World Series, is a battle of the best, the celebration of athletes at the top of their game. Doug Blevins is a man who knows what that means. He's one of the best kicking coaches in pro football. Two of his students are kicking in Sunday's game. But his story is the one we're telling tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOUG BLEVINS, DOUG BLEVINS KICKING AND PUNTING CAMP: I always wanted to be a football coach.

Good contact. Hey, Daniel, Daniel, went that way.

I started out working with football even as early as little league. And what happened was, when I got in high school, my knowledge of the game really exceeded the kids that was able-bodied and played in the game.

Try to hit the ball now. See what happens. Just try it.

I knew that because I was physically handicapped.

See how you don't have balance?

I had cerebral palsy. I was never going to actually play a down. I had to find an area of the game and be the best in the world at, not just pretty good, but be best in the world.

Hey, guys, let me get over to you before you kick.

There's not very many people even today know much about kicking and punting, snapping, holding, all the intricacies that goes into it. And I had an eye for it. I could watch what guys were doing. I could articulate it. I could teach it. And one thing led to the other. And that's what ultimately become my speciality.

DANIEL BLOOM, STUDENT: When I heard he was handicapped, I didn't fully comprehend...

BLEVINS: Good job, Daniel.

WYKOFF: ... the capacity to which his handicapped was. But once you get to know him, he's just -- it's like he's walking there with you. It's like he's actually kicking with you.

BLEVINS: There you go.

RYAN WYKOFF, STUDENT: I actually remember being about 10 years old and being out there watching a soccer game out on the field and seeing a man in a wheelchair kicking footballs with another man. And that man happened to be Adam Vinatieri. And the coach happened to be Doug.

BLEVINS: And Adam and I hit it off from the very beginning. Adam didn't know I was physically handicapped until I got him at the airport.

ADAM VINATIERI, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: And I don't know if it was disbelief or I thought maybe somebody was pulling my leg a little bit. And -- but after I started talked to him a little bit from the ride from the airport to his house, I came to understand that he was pretty knowledgeable. And, after a couple of days of working with him, it made a big difference.

BLEVINS: So ironic that both guys are playing in the Super Bowl. David moved here to Vero Beach when I was based in Vero Beach. The guy was a waiter. He was a waiter.

DAVID AKERS, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: I was married. And my wife stayed in Kentucky. And I went down there and trained with him for about three months. Looking at Doug in a wheelchair and disabilities and stuff, you could say, well, he doesn't know what he's talking about. But he's so well read. He's been around the game for so long. He knows what a good kicker is and what isn't and how to use their strength to better them.

It just shows that you anybody, as long as they know the technical side of the game, can coach any position.

BLEVINS: I think Adam and David -- obviously, I'm biased -- I think are the two best kickers in the NFL. I'm excited just to watch the Super Bowl game. And I'm even more excited that both of them are going to the Pro Bowl.

It's a very unique position, in the fact that a kicker, if they go out and make a mistake on a play, the whole world knows it. The whole world knows it. And they can change a whole complexion of a season. They can cost you a championship. They can cost you your career.

WYKOFF: When you think about kicking a field goal and people are watching or there's pressure on, you just think about what one day of his life is like. And it seems to make -- take the pressure all away. He's a great motivational tool in my life, definitely.

BLEVINS: Good job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: That story the work of CNN photojournalist Doug Carol (ph).

When we come back, a couple of notables passed away today. We'll remember them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: There are late developments tonight in a story that surely deserves some late developments, if the allegations are true. They involve a Florida couple, Linda and John Dollar and the seven children the law said they were supposed to be taking care of. Tonight, the law is taking care of the Dollars instead.

Here's CNN's Jason Bellini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ... Utah Friday evening Arrested Linda and John Dollar. Both are wanted in Florida on charges of aggravated child abuse and torture of five of their seven foster children.

CAPT. JIM CERNICH, CITRUS COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: They combed the area and were just about ready to shut down operations when they spotted the vehicle, stopped the Dollars on the roadway and then arrested them and took them to the county jail.

BELLINI: Friday morning, the sheriff's department in Beverly Hills, Florida, revealed the gruesome details of what the children say went on inside their home. The Dollars allegedly used electric shock on the children, forced them to sleep in a closet, chained them to walls, pulled their toenails out with pliers and left them severely malnourished.

GAIL TIERNEY, CITRUS COUNTY SHERIFF'S SPOKESWOMAN: I've seen pictures of the children that have been, you know, been taken in connection with this case and, you know, I mean they have, they have very sweet faces. But when you look at their bodies, I mean it looks like Auschwitz.

BELLINI: The investigation began when January 21. Paramedics responded to a 911 call. They discovered a 16-year-old boy bruised, bleeding and weighing only 59 pounds. It wasn't until six days later that Florida's Department of Children and Families recovered the other six children, including twin 14-year-old boys weighing 36 and 38 pounds.

Child advocates are questioning why it took so long. KAREN GIEVERS, CHILD ADVOCATE: There's no excuse for leaving children in danger under the circumstances that we're hearing about.

BELLINI: Governor Jeb Bush says the children were not on record with Florida foster care system and the agency acted swiftly to remove the children.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: It's just tragic that parents, in this case, adopted parents -- these were parents that received these kids under adoption in the early '90s -- would do what they did.

BELLINI: The Dollars and their adopted children had lived for a couple of years in Knoxville, Tennessee, and then moved back to Florida. The woman who leased the house to them said the children never played outside.

JEAN UNDERWOOD, FORMER LANDLORD: There were seven children and they told me they were from homes in Florida, they were mistreated and they were -- it was a foster care deal of some kind.

BELLINI: Two of the children were spared the alleged torture from their parents, the two, the children say, were their favorites.

(on camera): Jean Underwood also told us that on her visits to the Dollar household, something seemed very strange there. The children were virtually silent. They never played outside. She was looking for a reason to call child protective services, but she never found one.

Jason Bellini, CNN, Knoxville, Tennessee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Two farewells tonight, first, Max Schmeling, the German heavyweight champ who defeated Joe Louis in 1936 and whom Adolf Hitler tried to make a symbol of Aryan supremacy, try and failed, and not just because Louis won the rematch either.

Max Schmeling went on to shelter Jews from the Nazis and helped Joe Louis when his old rival was down on his luck. Said the German champ, "I don't want anyone to say I was a good athlete, but worth nothing as a human being." Max Schmeling was 99.

Just a few blocks south of here, the lights are dim, Broadway mourning the passing of an actor the way Broadway does. And that would be something in itself if Ossie Davis were simply an actor or any one thing. But Ossie Davis was never simply any one thing. He was deeply, passionately, stubbornly a lot of things, an actor, a champion of racial justice in and out of the theater, a fighter against McCarthyism, a husband for more than 50 years. Ossie Davis died in Miami Beach. He was filming a movie, the title of it, "Retirement," something, at age 87, he never got to enjoy.

And that is our program for tonight. Be sure to join me for "AMERICAN MORNING" on Monday morning. We begin at 7:00 a.m. Eastern.

Have a great weekend.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 4, 2005 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everybody.
There is a maxim in advertising. It kind of goes like this. Always undersell and overdeliver. But, at the risk of angering the gods of marketing or modesty, there is no way of overselling the program tonight. It begins with snapshots from the long and challenging journey for the people of Iraq and the troops who serve there.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN (voice-over): A young democracy counts the distance in votes between then and now. A young family adjusts to the life between then and now. Two sides of the same war. Where do their stories go from here?

It looks like a feeding frenzy in Washington.

FRED WERTHEIMER, DEMOCRACY 21: This sounds like a very raw, audacious and inappropriate way to raise political money in Washington.

O'BRIEN: A lawmaker with such an appetite for campaign money, even the lobbyists are taking notice. And the real scandal, its all perfectly legal.

And he's never kicked a field goal himself, but he's teaching Super Bowl placekickers to put their best feet forward.

DOUG BLEVINS, DOUG BLEVINS KICKING AND PUNTING CAMP: Good job, Daniel.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: All that and more in the hour ahead.

We begin tonight with the one advantage that neither the Eagles, nor the Patriots will enjoy this weekend, being home. Getting there can be tough. By now, you've probably met some of the young men and women making the long journey home from Iraq. It's a journey that often passes through military hospitals and burn units.

Tonight, a reminder that there's a life waiting for them when they get home. And it can be a good life.

Here's CNN's Frank Buckley. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FRANK BUCKLEY, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He looks like any other MBA student at Notre Dame until you see how Jason Frei was wounded in Iraq. It happened just days after the war began, just moments after this picture was taken. In March 2003, Marine Captain Jason Frei was commanding an artillery battery racing through Iraq. Frei was sitting in the passenger seat of this Humvee when a rocket- propelled grenade slammed in to its side.

CAPT. JASON FREI, U.S. MARINES: The RPG came in from the back and just took my arm off.

BUCKLEY: The door of the Humvee is on display at Camp Pendleton. Frei showed it to us last summer

J. FREI: The RPG came in, you can see here, from the back and it hit the door right here and probably came through -- now, my arm stops about here. It came through and hit me there, and the blast took off most of my hand and a good chunk of my foreman.

BUCKLEY: It was a life-threatening moment that would force a life-changing decision. The Naval Academy graduate, the career Marine, chose to leave the Marine Corps.

(on camera): How difficult was that for you to walk away from that?

J. FREI: Yes. That was one of the hardest things I've ever done. Because you're not in the Marines. You are a Marine.

BUCKLEY (voice-over): But Frei knew that, while he was leaving one family, the Marine Corps, his other family was growing. His 3- year-old Molly (ph) and four-year-old Robby (ph) gained a new brother, Tommy (ph), who was born after Frei came home from the war.

J. FREI: That's a gift. And every day when I come home and you see them, you're just like, wow, that's something -- that's a person that might not have happened.

BUCKLEY: Because Frei didn't die on that battlefield in Iraq. And losing a hand hasn't kept him from living. He counsels future officers in the ROTC about what he's experienced. He'll have an MBA from Notre Dame in 2006.

(on camera): And he is still leading. Fellow MBA students elected him class president.

BUCKLEY: He's become so used to using the prosthetic that replaced his arm that Jason's wife, Valerie, says he refuses her help.

(on camera): Jason says he can do anything. Is that true?

(LAUGHTER)

VALERIE FREI, WIFE OF JASON: Almost anything. He cannot juggle anymore. And the other thing he cannot do is walk across the street holding his little girl and little boy's hands. He's adapted to that. And now he says hooks and hands, hooks and hands. And they take his hook and they take his hand and he can walk them across the street.

BUCKLEY (voice-over): Before the war, Valerie had videotaped Jason playing with the children.

(MUSIC)

BUCKLEY: Not just to remind them of daddy, but also just in case, that fear nearly realized when the RPG hit. But the ambush that nearly killed him, that did take his arm, left Jason Frei more grateful than ever about the family he loves and the life he still has.

J. FREI: Until you have something that important to you almost taken away, I don't think you can really appreciate it. And I'm very thankful for the things I have.

BUCKLEY: Frank Buckley, CNN, South Bend, Indiana.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: On next to Iraq itself, where election results are firming up. But as the vote tally rises, so, too, are the complications and potentially the fuel for sectarian conflict.

Reporting from Baghdad tonight, here's CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SR. INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Apparent losers in the election so far, supporters of radical Shiite cleric Muqtada al-Sadr. Although far from conclusive, partial results from the provinces so far counted in the predominantly Shiite south indicate the firebrand cleric is making a poor showing. His supporters, as they have done when they've appeared marginalized before, upping the ante, calling for U.S. troops to leave.

HASHIM ABU TAGIF, AIDE TO MUQTADA AL-SADR (through translator): I call on all political and religious forces that embolden and contribute to the elections to put a time frame on the occupation.

ROBERTSON: Out ahead in all 10 provinces partially tallied, the United Iraqi Alliance, supported by Iraq's top religious leader, Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani. A poor second of the 3.3 million votes so far counted, Prime Minister Iyad Allawi's more secular political grouping, the Iraqi List. But electoral commission officials warn, results so far cannot be used to predict the final outcome.

Also in Baghdad, an Italian journalist was kidnapped. Giuliana Sgrena was snatched at gunpoint from her car just after talking with displaced families from Falluja at the city's university. An experienced reporter and knowledgeable about Iraq, her editors in Rome hope her common touch will help keep her safe.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And her editors are working the phones, calling aid agencies and others in Baghdad, trying to ascertain where she is. However, so far, the police here say they don't have any leads on exactly which group kidnapped her, Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Nic Robertson for us this evening -- Nic, thank you very much for that update.

At home, an illustration of Kinsley's law. The political commentator Michael Kinsley famously once wrote that, in Washington, the real scandal lies is what is legal. And to the best of our knowledge, what you're about to see is absolutely, perfectly legal.

Here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Guess who's coming to dinner? Lobbyists, lots of lobbyists. A ritual that plays out at fancy restaurants across Washington nearly every night. But lobbyists invited to this fund-raiser say it's out of the ordinary.

And three lobbyists at the event tell CNN that Democratic Senator Max Baucus threw this reception to reel in 50 lobbyists willing to raise $100,000 each. That would translate into $5 million for Baucus' campaign. Two veteran lobbyists, who didn't want to come on camera because of the sensitivity of their relationships with Baucus, say they have never gotten such an aggressive pitch from a senator, especially one from a state like Montana, which has less expensive media markets.

Fred Wertheimer, who has been tracking campaign finance since 1972, says such sums are normally only raised in this way for presidential candidates. While the fund-raising is not illegal, Wertheimer has never heard of a senator raising money like this.

WERTHEIMER: Well, this sounds like a very raw, audacious and inappropriate way to raise political money in Washington. Lobbyists are always looking for opportunities to give money to influential legislators. But when you take it to the approach of systematizing it to raise very large sums of money from lobbyists who you know are looking for favors and influence, that's a very dangerous situation.

HENRY: But Democratic lobbyists say Baucus can be bold because he's in a powerful position. He serves as top Democrat on the Finance Committee, which oversees all of the Social Security, tax and health proposals laid out in President Bush's State of the Union.

And top Republican leaders like Tom DeLay have been outspoken about not granting access to Democratic lobbyists. So they desperately need allies like Baucus.

(on camera): We tried to ask Senator Baucus about his fund- raising practices. But after some of the lobbyists tipped him off to our waiting cameras, the senator's staff hustled him in and out of the event through a side door.

(voice-over): CNN then called the senator's office, but our requests for an interview were denied. Baucus' staff finally directed a top official at the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee to speak to us. While the official did not dispute the lobbyist's account of the event, he said Baucus did absolutely nothing inappropriate.

PHIL SINGER, DEMOCRATIC SENATORIAL CAMPAIGN COMMITTEE: Senator Baucus been one of the foremost campaign finance reformers on Capitol Hill. He co-sponsored the McCain-Feingold legislation, which fundamentally changed the way money is raised in Washington. Any insinuation that there is some sort of quid pro quo at play is just demonstrably false.

HENRY: But some lobbyists contend that reform has not changed the system much. They say it's just the price tag that just keeps changing every election cycle. As one lobbyist who attended the Baucus event told CNN -- quote -- "It get more ridiculous every two years."

Back in 1987, the top Democrat on the Finance Committee was Lloyd Bentsen. He invited 50 lobbyists to breakfast for $10,000 a piece. After an uproar, Bentsen returned the money.

LLOYD BENTSEN (D), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't make any mistakes, but that one was a real doozy.

HENRY: Some Democrats griped that, since Baucus is not up for reelection until 2008, he should not be sucking up money that could go to colleagues facing the voters next year.

But Baucus' friends say he hails from a red state. And with the Republicans raising big money to defeat him, it's never too early to get ready. In fact, the senator is having another fund-raiser this very weekend at a Montana resort. Lobbyists will go skiing and snowboarding with the senator and watch the Super Bowl with him, too.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HENRY: The lobbyists who were asked to round up $100,000 are only legally allowed to contribute $4,000 out of their own pocket. To find the other $96,000, they now have to convince 24 friends to give $4,000 each. That's why many of these lobbyists are saying the McCain-Feingold law didn't get rid of big money. It just shifted the burden to them -- Soledad.

O'BRIEN: Ed Henry at the Capitol this morning -- Ed, thanks a lot.

Ahead on our program tonight, we're going to have our regular Friday night conversation, Aaron spending some quality time with the ultimate New Yorker, Pete Hamill. And, later, Jeff Greenfield with more of his exclusive interview with the ultimate Californian.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: A landmark legal decision could mean that gay couples could soon marry in New York. In a 62-page ruling, a judge held that the law banning same-sex marriage violates the state Constitution's guarantee of due process and equal protection. The judge applied a 30-day stay to give time for appeals.

One of the five couples in the case, Mary Jo Kennedy and Jo-Ann Shain, said they were overjoyed by the ruling and the legal protection it would create for them and their daughter, Alia (ph).

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never thought it would happen in my lifetime. I never did. And I'm very proud to be a part of it. And I'm very excited. And I want to credit my -- our daughter Alia (ph), because she's the one that had the courage to talk us into it. We're like older, more cautious, more stayed, and she's, like, you know -- she said, go for it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go for it!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Basically, she says you deserve it.

QUESTION: Alia, how do you feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How do I feel? I feel very excited. They deserve it more than any people in the world. And I love them so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

O'BRIEN: Today's ruling only applies to New York City. But if upheld on appeal, it would apply throughout New York state.

The University of Colorado's interim chancellor is ordering a review of Professor Ward Churchill's controversial remarks, remarks he made in an essay about 9/11 in which he asserted that the attacks were what he called natural and unavoidable consequence of unlawful U.S. policy.

Among other things, he called many of those killed in New York's World Trade Center little Eichmanns, a reference to Adolf Eichmann, who masterminded the Nazi plan to exterminate Jews during World War II.

Tonight, Paula Zahn spoke with Professor Churchill about how these statements upset the relatives of those died on 9/11 and asked him if he intends to retract his statement or even apologize.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WARD CHURCHILL, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO: I don't believe I owe them an apology, because I don't believe I included their families, the people you're talking about, in. I think some other people have very conscientiously attempted to put those words in my mouth. And I think it may be that quite a number of people who have been impugning things to me that I didn't actually say could well and truly owe an apology. Media sources that have me calling for the deaths of millions of Americans. Nowhere in there do I do that.

My object is to figure out if we're going to solve this problem, how to go about it. And first thing is to understand the nature of the response. And my thesis basically was that any people subjected to the kind of degradation, devaluation and dehumanization, say the Iraqis, or say the Palestinians, will either respond in kind, or people will respond in their name in kind. And it doesn't matter whether they're Arabs or they're Americans. And that actually in the last 10 days has been -- well, actually more like five days...

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR: Right.

CHURCHILL: ... has been borne out pretty thoroughly.

ZAHN: OK...

CHURCHILL: There's terrorism being undertaken in the name of the 9/11 families, OK, because people are outraged.

ZAHN: We have time for just one brief last question, professor. Do you think you're going to end up being fired?

CHURCHILL: Actually I don't.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Well, Colorado Governor Bill Owens is calling for Churchill to be fired.

It's hardly surprising that Ward Churchill's comments have angered so many New Yorkers. Whether native born or transplant, all New Yorkers become part of the community of the city, especially in the days since 9/11.

In this week's NEWSNIGHT conversation, Aaron Brown talks to journalist and novelist Pete Hamill, a child of immigrants who has been writing about the city for nearly half a century.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: What is it about New York that captivates people in Omaha and people in Ukraine and people in Warsaw and people in Twisp, Washington? What is it about New York that makes it the capital of the world, to New Yorkers, at least?

PETE HAMILL, AUTHOR, "DOWNTOWN: MY MANHATTAN": I think it's because it's also the capital of people who are not like you, so that everybody in his or her own way can feel comfortable here. It's not as if you come to New York and everybody's got a New York I.D. card. They don't have it. They come from all the nations of the planet.

But they have learned something about this city and themselves in it, which they pass on to the new arrivals and to the people they left behind, too.

BROWN: I think you and I talked about this once. I was -- I've been here 14 years now. It took me a while to get it, I think. And it wasn't until after 9/11, and I mean right after, the weeks after 9/11, that I began to see in New York not this balkanized place of Italian Americans over here and Dominicans up there and the Irish down here, but that there was, in fact, there is, in fact, a community here that I just didn't see until that horrible...

HAMILL: September 12.

BROWN: Yes.

HAMILL: September 12, we saw it.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: And you couldn't miss it on September 12.

HAMILL: Yes. Right, because people went back to work.

And not only just only the Chinese went back to work or the Mexicans or the Anglo-Saxon Protestants from the 17th century. Everybody went back to work. It was something about the city and the way it's constructed psychologically, as well as physically, that said, how do we react to this? We go back to work.

And doing that, I think, and understanding that makes it possible for people from anywhere to understand -- to feel like they have a piece of New York. The thing I always have tried in my own work was to make Americans feel like it's theirs, too. It's not just the New York tribe that owns this place. It's Americans. It doesn't mean they have to live here, any more than I have to go to Yellowstone National Park to be an American.

BROWN: Yes.

You've written about the city in all sorts of different ways. You've written journalism in the city. You've written novels that are centered in the city. The current book deals with your vision or your view of a part of the city. But do you think of it as a tough town or a gentle town that people misunderstand?

HAMILL: I think it's a tough town, but not a mean town.

The old New Yorker, the last thing an old New Yorker would do is talk tough, because real tough guys don't talk tough. They are tough.

BROWN: Yes.

HAMILL: But they don't talk a game of toughness. And so -- and that also was seen after September 11. My feeling is that there's a misunderstanding of it based on the movies and so on.

When I was a kid, it was William Bendix was playing the guy from Brooklyn. BROWN: Yes.

HAMILL: And we kept saying, wait a minute. Red Barber is from Brooklyn, even though he was from Alabama.

(LAUGHTER)

HAMILL: But there's a New York stereotype and there' a Southern stereotype. And I think all of us have to deal with something that William Faulkner once said about Mississippi, that loved it in spite of, not because.

And I think New Yorkers love New York in spite of irritations, aggravations, occasionally dangers, occasional idiots that come down the street. But, in spite of all those things, they love it. And I think people have to respect that, the way it's up to me as a New Yorker to respect Mississippi for what Faulkner saw it and for the South for what it is and always will be and what it becomes as it goes along.

BROWN: We're talking to Pete Hamill.

We'll take a break. Our Friday conversation continues in a moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We have a few more minutes with Pete Hamill.

You're 69, pushing 70. You're neither young nor old. Do you feel in a rush? Do you feel the clock ticking on all the things you imagined you would do in your life?

HAMILL: Yes.

I mean, there's things I still -- I'm never going to get around to doing. I'll never get to know St. Petersburg the way Dostoyevsky did. It's just impossible. There's not enough time now. But I've had this extraordinary life as a newspaper man, both seeing the horror and seeing the triumph and seeing the glory of human beings in small ways, in large ways. I had a ringside seat at history.

But, at the other hand, on the other hand, I saw how amazingly decent human beings can be. I come from that generation. I was 10 when World War II ended. And it was that generation that said, we can do anything. And the G.I. bill said, you can, and allowed a lot of us to do something our fathers and grandfathers couldn't even imagine.

The children of automobile workers and factory workers could read Spinoza, too, at the university. That was some amazing promise America gave us and kept it. So, I feel that my mother and father, as immigrants, did not make a mistake. It was the country it said it was.

BROWN: Can you imagine what your life would have been like if you had not become a newspaper man, by the way?

HAMILL: I can't. I mean, I...

BROWN: I mean, have you ever -- I've known lots of people in my business. And there are few who, to me, so personify what it means to be a newspaper man, a journalist, but really a newspaper guy, as you.

HAMILL: I try to imagine. I imagine myself as a cop or a painter or any number of things, an actor or something.

But I love the idea of getting through a life as if I was double- parked. And that's being a newspaper man, to be able to have the adrenaline, the flow, and be able -- one other thing. My mother -- one day, my brother Tommy and I, during World War II, were going to the West Side with her. And we laughed at some guy who we in those days called a bum, would now be a homeless guy.

And she said -- she got very angry with us. She said, never look down on anybody unless you're giving them a hand to get up. And newspapers gave me a chance to do that. I could use a newspaper to give a guy a hand to get up. And I think that was an honorable way to live a life, not that I was always honorable or that I always did the right thing. I don't mean that. But it was an opportunity to help the people you share the planet with.

BROWN: Particularly when you get to your age, what we say is that you've lived a full life.

HAMILL: This is true.

(LAUGHTER)

BROWN: Sometimes, it was hard. You played hard.

HAMILL: And regrets, I've had a few.

BROWN: Well...

HAMILL: As Sinatra said.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: The nice thing about being healthy and your age is that you can actually say I've had a few regrets and not feel like that's some great tragedy in life. That's just part of living.

Do you like modern journalism, today's journalism? Does it make you uncomfortable, proud?

HAMILL: I like parts of it. Obviously, there's parts that make me very uneasy. I don't like the use of the computer at the expense of legs, of going out and seeing human beings one at a time, if you can do that. BROWN: Yes.

HAMILL: I'd like to see a mixture of it. Of course, the computer is also one of the greatest tools we ever got our hands on.

I'd like more kids to be filled with the romance of it and not worry about the pension plan or what retirement will be like, you know, to go out and kick the door down and make the world yell.

BROWN: It's -- I say this to you every time I see you. It's wonderful to see you. It's wonderful to see you looking well.

Best of luck on the book. For people who have either a literal affection for New York or want to get it, what it is about, the capital of the world, it's a great read and it's great to see you.

HAMILL: Thanks. Thanks for having me again.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Still to come on NEWSNIGHT, the Air Force training for a ground mission, one of the most dangerous missions in Iraq.

And a man who can take some credit for the Super Bowl win no matter which team ends up on top. A great story of personal triumph.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: There's a rule in the military. You go where they tell you. There's a law of the larger world. Not even the military can ignore it, the law of supply and demand. This story and these people live where those two laws intersect.

As CNN's Ed Lavandera reports, it is a very dangerous place to be.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CAPT. MARIA ROBERTS, AIR FORCE: Hey, good job, you guys. Keep it up.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's up to Air Force Captain Maria Roberts to make the unit she commands work like a finely tuned machine.

ROBERTS: Kill box was real good. It was a medevac and evening.

LAVANDERA: Roberts and this unit are just weeks away from taking on one of the most dangerous jobs in Iraq.

ROBERTS: We're practicing our mission of providing escort security. LAVANDERA: That means keep of food, gas and supplies secure, so U.S. ground forces get what they need. Roberts has logistic experience, but never in combat. To prepare, these Air Force unit are being put through a four-week-long training course at Camp Bullis in San Antonio, Texas.

(on camera): Nearly 1,000 members of the Air Force have been through this combat convoy training course since last summer. It's a new mission, helping out the Army because of a shortage of soldiers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You will see the insurgent off to the right side.

LAVANDERA (voice-over): The corps simulates convoy runs. In this scene, a roadside bomb strikes a military vehicle.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're moving in position to cover them.

LAVANDERA: The unit circles the trucks to protect the convoy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ammo.

LAVANDERA: Twenty-one-year-old Adam Giran locks onto the insurgent. Others rescue the injured.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On three. One, two, three.

LAVANDERA: The course isn't just about moving a convoy. There's medical training, learning how to set an I.V. to keep a comrade alive.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get them in. Go. Go. All right?

LAVANDERA: Also hand-to-hand combat.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Grab it. Redirect. Get down. Get down.

LAVANDERA: It's a far cry from work most of them have ever had in the military.

AIRMAN 1ST CLASS ADAM GIRAN, AIR FORCE: It's not someone they tell you in the first place right when you sign those papers.

LAVANDERA: Airman 1st Class Giran had never touched a .50- caliber machine gun until two months ago. He spent his first year in the Air Force on a security team in Alaska. Then he was told to prepare for a mission in Iraq operating the rear gunner spot on a convoy.

GIRAN: You know you're the one on the truck, but you've got the rest of your soldiers' back and you might be the reason they get out safe.

MASTER SGT. PHILIP COOLBERTH, AIR FORCE: I've not had any airman step up and actually say, this is not why I joined. I don't want to do this. Are they scared? You bet. We are, too. But they're confident. And that's what will get them through the mission. LAVANDERA: So far, Captain Roberts likes what she sees.

ROBERTS: It's really intense. Every single day is a building block. Every single day, we're learning new things.

LAVANDERA: Many of these airmen used to have jobs far away from the front lines. But, in war, they're learning the call to duty can come any time.

Ed Lavandera, CNN, Camp Bullis, Texas.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT, part two of Jeff Greenfield's special report on Arnold Schwarzenegger and his one-of-a-kind political appeal. Plus, the man who coached two stars to the Super Bowl. It would seem impossible if it weren't true.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: Last night, in his interview with Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jeff Greenfield took a look at how Schwarzenegger wants to change the Golden State. Tonight, what makes this governor as different from other governors as California is different from other states. It isn't just the looks or the cigars or the accent.

Here now with part two of his exclusive interview is CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We love you, Arnold.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): It's a pretty safe bet that if most governors walked up the steps of the state Capitol, they would not be greeted this way by hundreds of school kids, assuming that is, any of those kids or their teachers or anyone else, could pick their governor out of a crowd.

But this is Arnold Schwarzenegger, whose political appeal is one of a kind. Just as Don Perata, the leader of the California State Senate, the Democratic leader.

DON PERATA (D), CALIFORNIA STATE SENATOR: He can capture the imagination of not only the state, but the country. And he is able to do things that none of us can do. He goes to Washington and he has people in Congress ask him for his autograph, for crying out loud.

GREENFIELD: Or Tom Campbell, the governor's finance director and former Republican congressman.

TOM CAMPBELL, CALIFORNIA STATE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE: He connects with the people, more so than any politician in any context that I've seen, national or state of California. GREENFIELD (on camera): It's not just that Schwarzenegger is utterly unlike almost any other political figure. It's how he came to power, the promises he made and implied, and how remarkably self-aware he is about the source of that power.

(voice-over): Schwarzenegger became governor in the fall of 2003, when Californians for the first time voted to recall the governor they had elected less than a year before and chose a man best known for his bodybuilding career and his action movie roles. His entrance was not only unique. He announced his candidacy on "The Tonight Show."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TODAY SHOW")

GOV. ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER (R), CALIFORNIA: When I go to Sacramento, I will pump up Sacramento.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GREENFIELD: But it enabled him to run without winning a Republican primary, where his liberal views on abortion, gun control, gay rights and stem cell research might have given him problems. Indeed, he delights in painting himself above the political battle. When he urges that judges, not the legislature, apportion seats for the legislature in Congress, he takes pride in opposition from both parties.

SCHWARZENEGGER: Whenever you see both parties disagree with something, then you know you're on to something really good. See, that's the ultimate, Jeff. I love that. Then you know that this must be really good for the people of California.

I will be actively involved in that.

GREENFIELD: Or consider how he talks about selling his proposals on merit pay for teachers or changing the pension rules for state workers or school funding. Most politicians recoil at talking about marketing almost as much as they engage in it. Not Arnold.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I believe in marketing, in publicizing, in selling, because you can have the best product in the world, but if people don't know about it, you have nothing.

GREENFIELD: In fact, he often points to lessons he learned from his acting days.

SCHWARZENEGGER: In acting, they always talk about that. Don't have the words come out of your mouth. You have it come from your gut. And it's the same old in politics.

GREENFIELD (on camera): Is your physicality -- I don't mean in any threatening way. Is it an advantage?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I think that my physicality is a huge advantage, not only because visually speaking. I think it gives you a certain confidence, and, therefore, you carry yourself completely differently than a guy that has not been on that stage. And then you're also proud of yourself. You say, this is what I've accomplished, so you carry yourself with much more confidence and with much more authority.

GREENFIELD: And they believe in you maybe more than a 5'9'' politician who has spent too many times at the buffet table?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I'm not going to answer that, because Danny DeVito is watching right now and he's going to not forgive me for that one.

(LAUGHTER)

SCHWARZENEGGER: So, anyway, so, this is where most of the action takes place.

GREENFIELD (voice-over): But as Schwarzenegger begins to fight for his package of change, a recent poll suggests potential political trouble for the governor, although his approval ratings do remain high.

Longtime California political journalist Dan Weintraub:

DAN WEINTRAUB, "SACRAMENTO BEE": What's happening is that the electorate is beginning to view Schwarzenegger in a more partisan light. Democrats in California are starting to peel away from him compared to a year ago.

GREENFIELD: State treasurer Phil Angelides, who wants to unseat the governor next year:

PHILIP ANGELIDES, CALIFORNIA STATE TREASURER: You know, he's now in a position not of celebrity, but of responsibility. So the markers that will apply to him by everyone, no matter who he is, is he a person of truthfulness? And I think that's in doubt today.

GREENFIELD: Senator Democratic Leader Perata says the jury is still out on Schwarzenegger's performance, but he does not minimize the governor's political assets.

PERATA: He's got the heart of an immigrant and he's got the courage and the confidence of -- I've never seen -- I've never been around anybody who has more self-confidence and less arrogance than Arnold Schwarzenegger.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I have no doubt in my mind.

GREENFIELD: And does that self-confidence translate into a future presidential run, should the Constitution be amended to permit foreign-born citizens to run? One step at a time, he says.

SCHWARZENEGGER: And I think that this was the way I always handled my life. I never really kept too many things in focus. It was always keeping the eye on the ball. And everything that was left and right was kind of out of focus and I didn't pay any attention to it. GREENFIELD: Maybe, but watching Schwarzenegger at the GOP Convention last year, you have to believe that there are at least half-a-dozen prominent Republicans with their eyes on 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue who are fervently hoping that the Constitution stays just the way it is.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, Sacramento.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Still ahead on NEWSNIGHT, new developments in that story of child abuse out of Florida today. We'll update that in a moment.

And there's an insult you hear a lot. Those who can't do teach. We're going to meet one guy who can't do, but has taught the very best.

From around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: The Super Bowl, like the World Series, is a battle of the best, the celebration of athletes at the top of their game. Doug Blevins is a man who knows what that means. He's one of the best kicking coaches in pro football. Two of his students are kicking in Sunday's game. But his story is the one we're telling tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DOUG BLEVINS, DOUG BLEVINS KICKING AND PUNTING CAMP: I always wanted to be a football coach.

Good contact. Hey, Daniel, Daniel, went that way.

I started out working with football even as early as little league. And what happened was, when I got in high school, my knowledge of the game really exceeded the kids that was able-bodied and played in the game.

Try to hit the ball now. See what happens. Just try it.

I knew that because I was physically handicapped.

See how you don't have balance?

I had cerebral palsy. I was never going to actually play a down. I had to find an area of the game and be the best in the world at, not just pretty good, but be best in the world.

Hey, guys, let me get over to you before you kick.

There's not very many people even today know much about kicking and punting, snapping, holding, all the intricacies that goes into it. And I had an eye for it. I could watch what guys were doing. I could articulate it. I could teach it. And one thing led to the other. And that's what ultimately become my speciality.

DANIEL BLOOM, STUDENT: When I heard he was handicapped, I didn't fully comprehend...

BLEVINS: Good job, Daniel.

WYKOFF: ... the capacity to which his handicapped was. But once you get to know him, he's just -- it's like he's walking there with you. It's like he's actually kicking with you.

BLEVINS: There you go.

RYAN WYKOFF, STUDENT: I actually remember being about 10 years old and being out there watching a soccer game out on the field and seeing a man in a wheelchair kicking footballs with another man. And that man happened to be Adam Vinatieri. And the coach happened to be Doug.

BLEVINS: And Adam and I hit it off from the very beginning. Adam didn't know I was physically handicapped until I got him at the airport.

ADAM VINATIERI, NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS: And I don't know if it was disbelief or I thought maybe somebody was pulling my leg a little bit. And -- but after I started talked to him a little bit from the ride from the airport to his house, I came to understand that he was pretty knowledgeable. And, after a couple of days of working with him, it made a big difference.

BLEVINS: So ironic that both guys are playing in the Super Bowl. David moved here to Vero Beach when I was based in Vero Beach. The guy was a waiter. He was a waiter.

DAVID AKERS, PHILADELPHIA EAGLES: I was married. And my wife stayed in Kentucky. And I went down there and trained with him for about three months. Looking at Doug in a wheelchair and disabilities and stuff, you could say, well, he doesn't know what he's talking about. But he's so well read. He's been around the game for so long. He knows what a good kicker is and what isn't and how to use their strength to better them.

It just shows that you anybody, as long as they know the technical side of the game, can coach any position.

BLEVINS: I think Adam and David -- obviously, I'm biased -- I think are the two best kickers in the NFL. I'm excited just to watch the Super Bowl game. And I'm even more excited that both of them are going to the Pro Bowl.

It's a very unique position, in the fact that a kicker, if they go out and make a mistake on a play, the whole world knows it. The whole world knows it. And they can change a whole complexion of a season. They can cost you a championship. They can cost you your career.

WYKOFF: When you think about kicking a field goal and people are watching or there's pressure on, you just think about what one day of his life is like. And it seems to make -- take the pressure all away. He's a great motivational tool in my life, definitely.

BLEVINS: Good job.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: That story the work of CNN photojournalist Doug Carol (ph).

When we come back, a couple of notables passed away today. We'll remember them.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

O'BRIEN: There are late developments tonight in a story that surely deserves some late developments, if the allegations are true. They involve a Florida couple, Linda and John Dollar and the seven children the law said they were supposed to be taking care of. Tonight, the law is taking care of the Dollars instead.

Here's CNN's Jason Bellini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): ... Utah Friday evening Arrested Linda and John Dollar. Both are wanted in Florida on charges of aggravated child abuse and torture of five of their seven foster children.

CAPT. JIM CERNICH, CITRUS COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE: They combed the area and were just about ready to shut down operations when they spotted the vehicle, stopped the Dollars on the roadway and then arrested them and took them to the county jail.

BELLINI: Friday morning, the sheriff's department in Beverly Hills, Florida, revealed the gruesome details of what the children say went on inside their home. The Dollars allegedly used electric shock on the children, forced them to sleep in a closet, chained them to walls, pulled their toenails out with pliers and left them severely malnourished.

GAIL TIERNEY, CITRUS COUNTY SHERIFF'S SPOKESWOMAN: I've seen pictures of the children that have been, you know, been taken in connection with this case and, you know, I mean they have, they have very sweet faces. But when you look at their bodies, I mean it looks like Auschwitz.

BELLINI: The investigation began when January 21. Paramedics responded to a 911 call. They discovered a 16-year-old boy bruised, bleeding and weighing only 59 pounds. It wasn't until six days later that Florida's Department of Children and Families recovered the other six children, including twin 14-year-old boys weighing 36 and 38 pounds.

Child advocates are questioning why it took so long. KAREN GIEVERS, CHILD ADVOCATE: There's no excuse for leaving children in danger under the circumstances that we're hearing about.

BELLINI: Governor Jeb Bush says the children were not on record with Florida foster care system and the agency acted swiftly to remove the children.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: It's just tragic that parents, in this case, adopted parents -- these were parents that received these kids under adoption in the early '90s -- would do what they did.

BELLINI: The Dollars and their adopted children had lived for a couple of years in Knoxville, Tennessee, and then moved back to Florida. The woman who leased the house to them said the children never played outside.

JEAN UNDERWOOD, FORMER LANDLORD: There were seven children and they told me they were from homes in Florida, they were mistreated and they were -- it was a foster care deal of some kind.

BELLINI: Two of the children were spared the alleged torture from their parents, the two, the children say, were their favorites.

(on camera): Jean Underwood also told us that on her visits to the Dollar household, something seemed very strange there. The children were virtually silent. They never played outside. She was looking for a reason to call child protective services, but she never found one.

Jason Bellini, CNN, Knoxville, Tennessee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

O'BRIEN: Two farewells tonight, first, Max Schmeling, the German heavyweight champ who defeated Joe Louis in 1936 and whom Adolf Hitler tried to make a symbol of Aryan supremacy, try and failed, and not just because Louis won the rematch either.

Max Schmeling went on to shelter Jews from the Nazis and helped Joe Louis when his old rival was down on his luck. Said the German champ, "I don't want anyone to say I was a good athlete, but worth nothing as a human being." Max Schmeling was 99.

Just a few blocks south of here, the lights are dim, Broadway mourning the passing of an actor the way Broadway does. And that would be something in itself if Ossie Davis were simply an actor or any one thing. But Ossie Davis was never simply any one thing. He was deeply, passionately, stubbornly a lot of things, an actor, a champion of racial justice in and out of the theater, a fighter against McCarthyism, a husband for more than 50 years. Ossie Davis died in Miami Beach. He was filming a movie, the title of it, "Retirement," something, at age 87, he never got to enjoy.

And that is our program for tonight. Be sure to join me for "AMERICAN MORNING" on Monday morning. We begin at 7:00 a.m. Eastern.

Have a great weekend.

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