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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Rise of Poker; Are Cox-2 Inhibitors Safe?

Aired February 18, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
In a good many basement rec rooms Friday night is poker night, cold beer, low stakes and good friends. That's poker. So is this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Television has made poker big. There's even a World Poker Tour and it is the Travel Channel's highest rated program. There are millions of poker players, of course, in the country and hard numbers on how much is bet, how often are difficult to come by. But there is this.

Five years ago, poker had practically disappeared from the country's big casinos. Now nearly every casino of any size has a poker room and just this week the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas announced it is expanding its already enormous poker facility.

Some concrete numbers do exist for the Internet. Three years ago the reported total amount wagered on Internet poker was $5.7 billion, a great deal of money. By the year 2009, that number is expected to grow to almost $17 billion.

And there is also this. Gamblers Anonymous says it's seen anecdotal evidence of a big rise in the problem of poker gamblers, including teens and college students who have become essentially addicted to the game.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Poker, because of the nature of the game, attracts a different sort of gambler. It's more than simply the luck of the draw, though good cards still beat bad cards any old day. And while you'd never know it in talking to most players, poker shares one other thing with all other forms of gambling. There are more losers than winners.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): If poker on television has become unavoidable, poker on the Internet is mostly invisible and it is far bigger than you may imagine.

GREG RAYMER, WINNER, 2004 WORLD SERIES OF POKER: If we can somehow figure out everyone in the world who's making a living playing poker, I would guess 80 percent of them are online players, you know, people who primarily only play on the Internet.

BROWN: People like Ray Griffin, 50 years old, of Lafitte, Louisiana.

RAY GRIFFIN, GRIFFIN FISHING CHARTERS: I've only been playing for less than a year, so I want to learn how to do it as good as anybody.

BROWN: Mr. Griffin says he wants to leave this, his successful fishing charter business south of New Orleans, leave it behind so he can devote all his time to this, sitting with his laptop playing hand after hand of Internet poker. And right now, Mr. Griffin I a minnow in a sea of sharks.

GRIFFIN: I've lost a lot. When I first started, you know, I was what they call dead money. When I first started playing, I had no clue what I was doing and I was giving money away like it was free.

BROWN: Nobody knows for certain but by some estimates roughly $180 million a day is being wagered around the planet on online poker. Some win of course and, of course, most don't.

GRIFFIN: A lot of people can gloss it over and they can say, well, you know, it's, you know I'm playing my cards against theirs. The reality of it is, it's still gambling. There are people that are getting in this game now that have no idea what they're doing. They just jump in because they saw it on TV and they're losing lots of money.

BROWN: The big winners, of course, are the people who operate the Web sites. They collect a portion of every bet made and so far have not been touched by the law. All of their sites are based outside the United States. Their giant computer servers are on a single Indian reservation in Canada. Poker professionals love it all.

PHIL GORDON, HOST, "CELEBRITY POKER": People want to play this game and it's great that they don't have to leave their house in order to do it. You can sit down and play against the best players in the world or against the biggest chumps in the world and have a great time doing it.

BROWN: Back on the bayou, Griffin says he is smart enough to quit if the losses get too steep.

GRIFFIN: At some point, you know, I'll never bet the family farm. That will never happen. I know that.

BROWN: A gambler's famous last words.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We said earlier that poker is different. No one got famous playing blackjack. Craps hasn't produced any TV stars but poker has, more than one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROWN (voice-over): Before he was the fossil man, Greg Raymer was Dilbert.

RAYMER: My most recent job was with Pfizer in Groton, Connecticut. I was one of 25 patent attorneys on that site and one of something like 150 patent attorneys worldwide for the company.

BROWN: And before she was a glamorous redhead with a sitcom deal, Annie Duke was a single mom with four kids.

ANNIE DUKE, PROFESSIONAL POKER PLAYER: The first thing I am is a mom and, you know, if I have a choice between being a mom or anything else, that's going to win.

BROWN: Suffice it to say both are very different now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cards have turned. Raymer wins it all. It's a three. Annie Duke has defeated nine of the strongest poker players in the world.

BROWN: Greg Raymer and Annie Duke personify what's happened in the world of high stakes poker since television catapulted the game from the backrooms into living rooms.

He won $5 million last spring at the biggest event there is, the World Series of Poker. She won big at the same tournament and her career earnings are north of $3 million. Truth be told poker players are a dime a dozen but good one, really good ones get rich and raise eyebrows.

RAYMER: I mean people would hear that I played poker. They may not say it to my face but they might say something to my wife later like if we're at a social event, you know, kind of like you know, you know, "Is everything OK? You know your husband's not like losing the mortgage or he's not losing the house, you know, or the savings, is he?"

DUKE: The things that people felt that it was OK to call me at the table, if I beat them in a hand, I mean they knew that I wasn't going to go outside and beat them up so, you know, I guess they felt a license to do that and it wasn't like anyone was defending me because they all sort of felt the same way.

BROWN: Both made it to the big time in different ways. Raymer essentially put himself up for auction because his dreams were bigger than his bankroll.

RAYMER: So, I had a strong reputation, especially with my friends on the Internet, as a good player so I made a proposal on the Internet just in the public poker discussion forum where I participated to say, you know, do you want to buy a piece of my action? I tripled my bankroll. About $30,000 came in from these people.

BROWN: Annie got help from her brother, Howard Letterer, already an established poker kingpin. DUKE: He said to me, "You should move down to Las Vegas because I really think you could be the first woman to ever really make a mark in this game." And, you know, I was like I'm just doing this for my money but he really had a vision for me and he really had a dream that I would be one of the best players in the world.

BROWN: A decade later, she was and she's riding her moment for all its worth, including the possibility of a network situation comedy this coming fall based on her life produced by her new close friend the actress Lisa Kudrow.

DUKE: I mean, you know, the TV came along and here I am this person who has this really anachronistic story for the world of poker. I mean nobody expects this kind of, you know, Ivy League educated mom of four person to be, you know, one of the best poker players in the world, how odd, you know, who's a woman, you know, how strange.

BROWN: No TV deals for Greg Raymer but he is exceedingly self assured, especially about that nickname, fossil man.

RAYMER: They call me fossil man because when I play poker I always use a fossil, you know, just a chunk of rock that has a fossil in it to put on top of my cards as a card protector.

BROWN: Both players, Raymer with his fossil, Annie with her Ipod, played in this poker tournament in Los Angeles called the Professional Poker Tour, sort of the PGA for card players. Like all gambling, poker requires a good deal of luck but like no other, there is some magic in poker which words can hardly capture.

DUKE: This is what I was raised for, obviously. My brother does the same thing. I mean we were really meant to be doing this and we both love this game and are so excited that other people are finding out how incredibly fascinating this game is, whether you're doing it for recreation or for a living.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: When the poker bug bites, it can bite hard. Five years ago, James McManus went to Las Vegas to cover the World Series of Poker for "Harper's Magazine." He came away a changed man. He came away a richer man too. His story about being seduced by the game became a book "Positively 5th Street," and Mr. McManus joins us from Chicago tonight, it's good to see you.

I have all these sort of basic questions, OK? On Internet poker, how do you know it's not a complete scam?

JAMES MCMANUS, AUTHOR, "POSITIVE 5TH STREET": That's a good question. My sense is that they have so much to lose right now if it turned out that the game wasn't fair and square that they would be -- they'd be out of their minds to let any -- any kind of a sneaky behind the back stuff be going on. I also happen to know several of the people who run these sites and everyone I know is trying to make a living in a fair way. BROWN: That's what they always say about the casinos in Las Vegas too (UNINTELLIGIBLE) no they do. I mean they have too much to lose. How do you know there are actually five other people sitting at the table and that those are the cards and there's an incredible amount of trust that seems to exist there?

MCMANUS: Yes, same kind of trust that the airplane is going to take off and stay up in the air for 2,000 or 3,000 miles. I don't play a lot on the Internet myself. I prefer live poker. It's a slightly different kind of game when you're not -- when you don't have an opportunity to read faces and body language to get a sense of whether the player is representing or misrepresenting their hand.

BROWN: That's my next question really is I said it earlier in the piece that good cards, you'd rather have good cards than bad cards but there is another kind of magic about a poker player and that's the psychology of a poker player.

MCMANUS: Yes. Yes, well everyone would rather be lucky than good. No one wins these tournaments or even makes the money without playing extremely well and getting extremely lucky. The best players don't always win. They don't even win the majority of the time and that's why the fields have gotten so big because anyone with reasonable poker skills can catch hands for three, four, five days, play well and, you know, win $5 million.

BROWN: Is there a common trait to good poker players?

MCMANUS: You know...

BROWN: You can't say they're lucky.

MCMANUS: I don't know if there's a common trait. There are so many different kinds, you know, Annie Duke. There are cowboys. There are (UNINTELLIGIBLE). There are people who are, you know, the 15, 16- year-old kids playing on the Internet illegal.

I think that card sense and mathematical skill to be able to figure out the pot odds when you're putting your money in the pot with the best hand or when it's likely to be the best hand that's the -- that's the basic. That's -- and beyond that, I think an ability to look at a person and get a strong sense of how much they love or don't love their hand.

BROWN: What do you look for?

MCMANUS: You know there's heat, there's -- there's eye movement. There's -- right now there's so much poker that's been televised that people have compiled DVDs of files of how Gus Hanson (ph) throws his tips into the pot when he's bluffing and how he throws them in when he's got a big hand. It's an accumulation of tiny little things that you can or can't sense from your opponent, especially when you're playing a huge pot against them.

BROWN: And just one question about the explosion on TV, was there some technological moment that took what essentially is a bunch of people sitting at a table holding their cards that changed, that made it a TV event?

MCMANUS: Absolutely. In March of 2003, Steve Lipscom (ph) and the people at the World Poker Tour started broadcasting in America the game in which the hole cards were exposed. They had these tiny little cards on the top of -- tiny little cameras on the top of the table that allowed the audience to see what the hole cards were.

And before that, watching big time poker or even small stakes poker was like watching bears hibernate and smoke. The players were extremely good at not giving away information about the strength of their hand, good poker, bad TV.

Now, people with the lipstick cameras, people are able to -- people in the audience have more information than the players contesting the pot, so it's not only entertainment but it's instructional.

BROWN: Good to have your time tonight. It's fun. Thank you.

MCMANUS: My pleasure.

BROWN: Thank you, James McManus with us tonight.

We have much more to come tonight. You can bet on that, including this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): After three days of intensive hearings, the FDA says three pain medications are safe enough to use despite their links to heart risk.

BETSY STUART CHANEY, TAKES CELEBREX: I'm willing for my quality of life to take those risks.

BROWN: When do a drug's benefits outweigh the risks and who should decide?

In Iraq, the sacred intersects with the unholy at one of Shia Islam's holiest times the violence that will not stop.

Troubling questions tonight about the drowning of a young Marine in boot camp, what was caught on video the day before he died?

JOHNNY THARP, FATHER: I don't know how they could treat my son the way we saw on that video. He never hurt nobody. He'd do anything that anybody asked.

BROWN: And the brawl that gave professional basketball a black eye. How did you find out about it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was watching, as you were, at eleven o'clock at night. It was on a competitive network and I was sitting in the kitchen.

BROWN: Did you go, "Oh, my God?" UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was actually more colorful than that.

BROWN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I did and I couldn't believe it.

BROWN: A NEWSNIGHT conversation with NBA Commissioner David Stern.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The popular arthritis drugs Vioxx, Celebrex and Bextra have been at the center of intensive hearings in Washington this week. The question before an FDA committee that convened the hearings, whether these drugs known as a class as Cox-2 inhibitors, some of the most widely used and heavily marketed drugs ever are safe enough to be sold to Americans and today that FDA committee said yes.

Here's CNN's Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It took three days of hardcore science and gut-wrenching emotion for the FDA Advisory Committee to decide, after extremely close votes, that the popular painkillers should remain for sale in the U.S. despite known heart risks but that decision won't change the minds of some patients who will always believe these medications are too risky and too deadly.

Like, Nancy Corran, she says her husband Jack lived an active life. His minor back pain was controlled with Vioxx until at age 64 he died suddenly of a heart attack.

NANCY CORRAN, HUSBAND DIED ON VIOXX: My husband could be alive right now if it wasn't for Merck and I feel that he was murdered.

GUPTA: We can never know for sure that Vioxx actually caused his heart attack. Although studies have previously shown the increased risk of heart attacks and strokes, Merck didn't take it off the market until September.

CORRAN: This man's life was taken away for something they knew about. He won't see his grandchildren. His grandchildren won't see him. I won't see him and I have to live with this because I didn't even get to say goodbye to the man and he died.

GUPTA: The research was similar on all three painkillers.

DR. ALASTAIR WOOD, CHAIR, FDA ADVISORY COMMITTEE: We've got data on Vioxx, on Bextra and on Celebrex from randomized control trials that show an increased cardiovascular risk.

GUPTA: But still to some, like Betsy Stuart Chaney, sidelined with pain after years of sports, the risks are worth taking.

CHANEY: I'm here to say would you all pick up your elbow and whack your funny bone and feel that pain that stops you in your tracks from doing what you're doing? All you want to do is say a bad word.

Well, I have cracked vertebrae in my neck and without Celebrex I start to lose the feeling in my hand and I can't grasp a paper. I can't hold onto something. I can't do things around my house. I'm willing for my quality of life to take those risks.

GUPTA: The committee says in allowing these drugs to stay on the market the warnings to doctors and patients must be made very clear. They're recommending the strictest warning a drug can have, a black box on the label and advertising will be limited as well, so look for fewer commercials.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Looking at some of the other stories that have made news around the country today, pressure growing on Choice Point, the company that collects and sells information on just about all of us. Officials in 38 states are demanding the company notify all consumers whose personal data may have been stolen, not just those in California where state law requires notification. An identity theft ring hacked security at Choice Point. It's unknown how much personal data may have been stolen.

The State of New Jersey is suing Blockbuster Video claiming the company's new no late fees policy is deceptive and not spelled out clearly to consumers. Under the policy that began January 1st, customers pay a restocking fee when a tape is a week overdue and after a month they're charged the entire retail value of the tape but no late fees. Blockbuster defends the policy.

The Borgata Casino in Atlantic City, what is this casino night, cocktail servers who put on weight could lose their jobs. Servers will be given a chance to drop the extra weight or they could face termination. Women's rights group and union officials call the policy discriminatory.

A jury in Massachusetts is ordering the "Boston Herald" to pay a judge there over $2 million. The judge sued the paper for libel claiming it wrongly quoted him saying a 14-year-old rape victim should "get over it." The "Herald" says it will appeal the decision.

Does the name Dominique Dawes ring a bell? If not, you certainly aren't a gymnastics fan or even a casual viewer. Ms. Dawes was a member of the gold medal gymnastics team at the '96 games in Atlanta. That's just one high point in what's been a very full life for this young woman, her story as we continue CNN's anniversary series "Then and Now."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: Dominique Dawes tumbled into the spotlight during the 1996 Olympics as part of the magnificent seven gold medal winning gymnastics team. Awesome Dawesome became the first African American to win an individual gymnastics medal with a bronze in the floor exercise.

DOMINIQUE DAWES: It just meant a lot to do it for this country, my team and myself.

ANNOUNCER: After the games in Atlanta, Dawes turned heads on Broadway, dabbled in acting and modeling and cartwheeled her way through a Prince music video. She hung up her leotard in 1998 and started class at the University of Maryland but soon realized that gymnastics was not quite out of her system.

Dawes participated in her third Olympic games in 2000 in what she calls a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Dawes is now 28, has completely retired from gymnastics and splits her time between coaching and motivational speaking.

DAWES: It's really going out there and teaching young girls what being fit is all about.

ANNOUNCER: She's also president of the Women's Sports Foundation and has recently launched a new project called Go Girl Go.

DAWES: I feel like I do have to empower others and that's why, you know, I found these different platforms, these different venues that I feel like I've, you know, been able to touch lives in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: She's a great story.

Throughout the year as we celebrate CNN's 25 years of reporting the news, we'll look back at some of the stories that have impacted all of our lives. The series also gives us a chance to catch up with yesterday's newsmakers, see where they are and what they are up to today.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight, another bad day in Iraq for Iraqis and Americans and if the combat wasn't dangerous enough, a young man dies in training in boot camp and a family wonders why, a break first.

Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Today, Shiites in Iraq began the holiest period of their religious calendar and it was met with some of the bloodiest violence since the elections were held last month, which is saying something. There were five bomb attacks in Baghdad alone. Three of the targets were mosques where people were gathered to pray. The attacks killed more than 30 people, wounded dozens more. Just north of Baghdad in Talifar (ph), U.S. troops engaged in a fierce gun battle with insurgents and two U.S. soldiers were killed today in other attacks, one by a roadside bomb. That attack wounded two other American soldiers.

In our CNN "Security Watch" tonight, Iran is on the president's mind as he prepares for a trip to Europe. Mr. Bush leaves on Sunday. He visits five nations -- rather three nations in five days looking to better relations somewhat ruffled in recent years. In a series of interviews at the White House with European journalists the president was asked if he would consider military action against Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First of all, you never want a president to say never but military action is certainly not, you know, it's never the president's first choice. Diplomacy is always the president's first -- at least my first choice and we've got a common goal and that is that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The president said he hoped Iran could be persuaded to abandon any program having to do with nuclear weapons through a diplomatic initiative headed by European countries.

For many young boys, young girls too, boot camp is a huge wakeup call. They aren't children anymore. Most deal with it. Some grow from it. This is the story of a boy who died from it. The Marines are investigating the death of a West Virginia boy who drowned at boot camp at Paris Island.

His parents want answers, understandably, after they saw the tape of what preceded their son's death, pictures shot by CNN affiliate WIS in Charleston, South Carolina and reported by our Jason Bellini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His family describes Jason Tharp as a quiet boy who loved art.

THARP: He's just the kindest, gentlest person I ever knew.

BELLINI: He joined the Marines to get money for college. At boot camp he realized he made a mistake. A South Carolina TV station, WIS, visited Paris Island for a story on basic training and captured Tharp in a tense moment with his drill instructor. Another drill instructor explained what was happening.

MARINE SGT. ANTHONY DAVIS, DRILL INSTRUCTOR: Right now we have a recruit that's refusing to train. He was getting in the water and decided that he just wanted to quit and get out. He's been asked -- he would rather go to the brig right now than get back in the water.

BELLINI: Twenty-four hours later, Jason Tharp was dead. The Marines say he died as a result of "complications in the water." They say that's as specific as they'll get until they complete their investigation. His family is baffled by his death.

THARP: We don't -- we can't understand why and my little girl all she knows is her big brother's in heaven.

BELLINI: WIS showed Tharp's parents the video they shot the day before their son died. It shows Tharp's drill instructor grabbing him by the collar. It shows his drill instructor striking him.

THARP: I don't know how they could treat my son the way we saw in that video. He never hurt nobody. He would do anything anybody asked him. It's just not right.

BELLINI: A Marine spokesman at the Pentagon says the actions by the drill instructor seen in the video appear to violate regulations for dealing with recruits. Outsiders agree.

EUGENE FIDELL, MILITARY LAW EXPERT: Basically, you're not supposed to lay your hands on a recruit. You don't really want to have drill instructors grabbing a recruit by the collar, which is what happened here, and, also, you don't want them sort of basically hitting people with their elbows.

BELLINI: Tharp's drill instructor has been suspended, pending an investigation. A Marine spokesperson at Parris Island says the instructor is not commenting. Tharp's parents aren't certain there's any connection between what's on the tape and what happened to their son, but it confirms what they already knew. Their son was miserable in boot camp. He wanted to quit.

THARP: They just -- they treated him bad. They were singling him out, I guess, because he couldn't keep up.

BELLINI: In his last letter home, Tharp wrote, he was starting swim qualifications the next day. WIS's video shows the intensity of the water combat survivor training.

HEATHER BROWN, WIS-TV REPORTER: Did Jason know how to swim?

THARP: Not very good, but they assured us, the recruiter said that nothing would happen, they have enough people in the pool where nothing would happen to him.

BELLINI: But something did happen. Now Jason Tharp's family hopes it won't happen to another family's child.

Jason Bellini, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: There are new allegations of sexual abuse in the U.S. military. The watchdog group the Miles Foundation claims that 10 serial rapists, 10 of them, are serving in the military's ranks. The group says it's received reports, 307 reports, of sexual assault from U.S. service members in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait and Bahrain. The foundation says military authorities have been alerted. In a statement today to CNN, the Pentagon said it is not aware of any report showing evidence of 10 sexual predators in the U.S. military.

These are not the only allegations. A report that will air Sunday on "60 Minutes" investigates claims of sexual abuse on American bases. One allegation comes from an eight-year Army veteran who claims she was assaulted by another lieutenant after a night of drinking at the officers club.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He raped you?

LT. JENNIFER DYER, NEW JERSEY NATIONAL GUARD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any way he could have misinterpreted your intentions?

DYER: I don't feel it is possible to misinterpret, no, don't do this, or, stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And we've learned tonight that military prosecutors at Fort Hood, Texas, have reduced by half the charges they filed against Army Private Lynndie England. She is accused in connection with the prisoner abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib and was photographed standing with naked Iraqi prisoners. England was initially charged with 19 counts of abuse and indecent acts. Now her lawyers say she faces nine counts that include conspiracy, cruelty and dereliction of duty. No comment from prosecutors on the change.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, our conversation with NBA commissioner David Stern on that brawl between the Indiana Pacers and fans of the Detroit Pistons and how both players and fans have changed over time.

And what shows up on your doorstep tomorrow, morning papers for a Friday.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The sports buzz tonight is that the NHL and its players are either holding talks now or going to hold talks on Saturday in an attempt to salvage a season canceled by the owners and the lockout earlier this week.

Tonight, at least, that is one problem NBA commissioner David Stern doesn't have, which is not to say pro basketball has no problems. There are image problems, the hip-hop generation of players seeming to some more estranged from the fans than the Magics and the Michaels that preceded them. There was that violence problem, the brawl in suburban Detroit. But, on balance, the NBA is healthy, the fans happy, the ratings good. And David Stern is in no small part a reason. We talked to commissioner Stern the other day for tonight's NEWSNIGHT conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Do you think something fundamental has changed in the relationship in -- not just in your sport, but in sport, between players and fans?

DAVID STERN, NBA COMMISSIONER: I think something fundamental has changed because people know their athletes much more intimately than they ever have before because of press coverage, because of Internet sites, because of the coverage that used to be respectfully distant, but is now much more intimate. And I think they've come to expect, probably appropriately, more of their athletes and are disappointed when they don't get what they expect.

BROWN: Do they -- what is it they expect?

STERN: Well, they expect the athletes to behave well off the court, not to disappoint them. They expect them to demonstrate their enthusiasm, their love for the game, the fact that they are respectful of fans and appreciate the attention.

And when an athlete is covered in his weakness or disappoints in a certain way, the wrath of the fan is appropriately incurred. And, unfortunately, the fans paint all athletes with a broader brush, which is undeserving, but it happens.

BROWN: Do you think that there's a change in the way the athlete sees the fan?

STERN: Well, I think there's a change in the way that athletes view what's demanded of them. They come into the game. The media is much less interested in game coverage, because that's picked up on the Internet.

So, reporters stick mikes. You say the wrong thing. There's a big story saying something that you didn't wish you hadn't said. And you're 20 years old and all of a sudden you're being questioned. Your team would like you to make sure you do the pregame or the postgame interview. The locker room gets opened up until 45 minutes before the game and 10 minutes after the game.

Your sponsors are asking you to do a variety of things. And I think there's an enormous frenzy that, in some ways, also involves the fans being more demanding and perhaps letting their unhappiness, even at a particular game, be known, and really misbehavior by certain fans as well. So, there's sort of an interesting mix going on.

BROWN: I think anybody who watched you on the day after the brawl, and the look in your face, we'll never forget it. You've had a share of difficult days on the job. It goes with the territory. As you look back on that now, that day and what happened in Auburn Hills, how do you see it? STERN: I see it as an incident and not some representation of all things that are bad with players and fans.

I see it as a perfect storm of a fan who seems to have come down out of his seats and a player who was lying in a place where maybe he should not have been lying and a lot of things happening. And, poof, for one of my 27,000 games as commissioner, we had really a terrible, terrible circumstance.

And, unfortunately, it sort of permitted, indeed, invited intense repetition of the events, because it's all too delicious.

BROWN: How did you find out about it?

STERN: I was watching.

BROWN: You were?

STERN: At 11:00 at night, it was on a competitive network and I was sitting in the kitchen. And I...

BROWN: And did you go, oh, my God?

STERN: I -- it was actually more colorful than that.

BROWN: Yes.

STERN: But I did. And I couldn't believe it.

BROWN: Did you pick up the phone and call somebody?

STERN: I did. I did. And I said, here we go.

BROWN: I guess we're working tomorrow.

STERN: We're working tomorrow. We're working Sunday. We're working later. And, at 6:00 a.m., the tapes were delivered to my house on Saturday morning.

BROWN: You alluded to this.

Fairly or not, people -- basketball is such a complicated -- for all the reasons, in fact, that you have mentioned, the intimacy of it. The players have changed. Society has changed. Fans have changed. I mean, stuff changes. It did become -- it has become in some people's minds the representation of all that is wrong with basketball players and, in some respects, all that's wrong with sports.

STERN: Right, and all that's wrong with fan behavior.

BROWN: And fan behavior.

STERN: And in so doing, it gives us an opportunity to say, stop, reset. It's not the end of the world. We're all adults and we're people of goodwill. And we, fans, players, management, security and television folks, can say, you know what? This is a good opportunity to examine it, reset it and demonstrate that sport, at its best, brings people together, has great convening power, and doesn't have to be an example of anything.

BROWN: I want to talk about a number of other things. We need to take a break first.

We're talking with NBA commissioner David Stern and we'll continue in a moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We're talking with NBA Commissioner David Stern at the beginning now of the All-Star weekend that's going on.

All-Star weekends are great celebrations for leagues. And they're fun to watch. They're not necessarily the greatest exhibitions of defensive basketball. You look forward to this one? Will this one be a good one for you?

STERN: This is going to be a great one. This is...

BROWN: Because?

STERN: Because it's a celebration of our game at a time when there were questions post-Larry, post-Michael, post-everybody. What can we do? And here we have the grand old men of the All-Star game, Grant Hill and Shaquille O'Neal, and a cast of youngsters and the rookie and sophomore game, and the slam dunk and the All-Star Game, a very good, competitive league, and really a whole bunch of young men have taken center stage.

BROWN: Have you sort of given up worrying about the fact that kids are coming out too soon and that -- you've got high school kids who come out.

STERN: Yes.

BROWN: That doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. And, obviously, one of your big stars right now, certainly the star to be, is that. Nobody seems to finish school anymore.

STERN: I haven't given up worrying about it.

In fact, I think it would be great if we could have a -- right now, our entry age requirement is 18. I'd love to raise it to 20. I think it would send a great statement. It would get our general managers out of high school and junior high school gymnasia, scouting players who are too young and should not be driving, no less thinking about playing. I think the players would eventually get to us. It might actually help the college game. And it's a subject of intense negotiation.

BROWN: One of the things people say, I'm sure you hear this a lot, is that the individuals play great, but the game itself isn't played as well as it used to be. Do you buy that at all? Is it just played differently than it used to be?

STERN: I would say it's played differently.

You have maestros who can do things at the age of 15 that some of the greatest players in our history didn't do at the peak of their career. So you have got standards in athleticism and talent that's going up. And the truth is -- and I think the Pistons demonstrated it. And, interestingly enough, international basketball demonstrated it. And I think the Spurs and the Suns and the Sonics are demonstrating it every night. And that's a pathetic appeal to your Seattle roots.

BROWN: Thank you. I appreciate that.

STERN: That teamwork always outs and that the great players are the ones that make their teammates better.

So, we may have had intervening years where, when scoring was down, people would begin to talk about individualism, but we know that team play is what always wins.

BROWN: One or two personal questions and we'll get you out of here.

When you graduated law school, did you ever imagine your life would play out the way it's played out?

STERN: I was looking forward earnestly to being a partner at a New York City law firm, which I did become. And then I had the opportunity to go to the NBA for a couple years and I said, I'll give this a try.

BROWN: And were you a basketball fan at the time?

STERN: I was...

BROWN: New York has a great -- it has a great basketball history.

STERN: Carl Braun, Jimmy Bectold (ph), Ray Felix, Harry Gallatin, I grew up reading from the back of "The Daily News." It's a newspaper that used to exist, for everyone who is watching, or "The Mirror," "The News," "The Journal American," "The Post." You name it. You just read from -- well, some were in tabloids. But you read from back to front.

And I just loved everything about the Knicks and my then beloved New York baseball Giants. But I was disappointed.

BROWN: Who is the greatest basketball player you ever saw? Can you answer that? STERN: No. But I would -- I'll give it a try.

BROWN: Give me a couple.

STERN: I'll give you a couple.

Of course, it's -- Magic was on the court and he was -- not only did everything, but his face.

BROWN: The exuberance of Magic.

STERN: His face said, I'm loving this.

BROWN: Yes.

STERN: And Larry would step back to shoot the three, saying, in your face. I could take a two, but I'm going to step back.

And, of course, Michael just said, I'm better than you are and if you push me, I'm going to compete better than you. And those are three of recent memory.

BROWN: People who follow sports, I think, have a great appreciation for where the league was two decades ago, the ups and downs that it has gone through, the way you have navigated it all. And the fact that you're still watching ball games at 11:00 at night speaks pretty well.

STERN: It's a great job. And it's -- with its global reach and the women's leagues and the like and technology, it promises only to continue to be fun and to present new opportunities.

BROWN: Have a great weekend.

STERN: Thank you very much.

BROWN: Thank you. It's nice to see you.

STERN: Don't forget to watch us.

BROWN: Good deal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: David Stern, the NBA commissioner, we talked with him last week.

We'll take a break. Morning papers when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. We haven't used "The International Herald Tribune" in a while. Don't know why. But we'll start off with "The International Herald Tribune," published in Paris by "The New York Times." In the middle here, "Chinese Reluctant to Lean on North Korea," an analysis piece, kind of a staid headline, but the papers don't necessarily stay that way.

"The Washington Times." Just about everybody put the FDA panel story on the front page. "FDA Panel Clears Painkiller Use, Says Benefits Outweigh Health Risks." It's an interesting balance for people. Down here in the corner, if you can capture that for me, "Catholic Diocese Pass Checks For Abuse." This is the audit of diocese around the country. And most seem to be conforming to the policy set in place to eliminate or reduce abuse. But there were still 1,000-plus cases reported in the audit.

"The Examiner" of Washington, this would be the free newspaper in Washington, if you don't want to pay the quarter or the half-dollar for the other papers. Down here, I like the headline, "Thinkin' Lincoln." It's President Day weekend. Our old friend Abraham is now a bobblehead, a tomato seed and an animated drunk. Goodness. Saved the Union.

"The Oregonian" out in Portland, Oregon. I liked a number of things about this story. "A Life Off Course" is the headline. Bill Johnson, the skier. "Life has taken a tough turn since a brain injury." One of the things I think we in the news business ought to do more of actually is revisit stories and revisit characters in stories. The paper does a nice job on this. So, good for "The Oregonian."

The local story in "The San Antonio Express-News" up on top here. "SAPD," San Antonio Police Department, "Says Pittman," who is the assistant or deputy chief, "Is Clean in Sex Case." I'm sure he's glad to see that headline. This picture, if you can get it, is in a number of papers today. It's is a picture out of Iraq today, a young man crying on a coffin. "Terrorists Prey on Shiites" is the headline.

Speaking of Iraq, "The Chattanooga Times Free Press." "Handling Iraq on Their Own. Area Soldiers Training Iraqi Troops to Take Over Security For Their Country." The paper has done a wonderful job in keeping track of local kids, Tennessee kids. But if you're in Iraq, you're probably not a kid, right? So, good for them at that.

"Philadelphia Inquirer" leads a little soft. "Apprentice Wanted. Hundreds Arrive All Fired Up to Snare NBC Slots." If you work nights, you really don't know what that's about.

And I bet we're out of time, right? OK. The weather tomorrow in Chicago, according to "The Chicago Sun-Times..."

(CHIMES)

BROWN: Thank you very much -- is "insipid."

We'll wrap it up in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Running a little late tonight. Have a wonderful weekend. We're all back here on Monday.

Until then, good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired February 18, 2005 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
In a good many basement rec rooms Friday night is poker night, cold beer, low stakes and good friends. That's poker. So is this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): Television has made poker big. There's even a World Poker Tour and it is the Travel Channel's highest rated program. There are millions of poker players, of course, in the country and hard numbers on how much is bet, how often are difficult to come by. But there is this.

Five years ago, poker had practically disappeared from the country's big casinos. Now nearly every casino of any size has a poker room and just this week the Bellagio Hotel in Las Vegas announced it is expanding its already enormous poker facility.

Some concrete numbers do exist for the Internet. Three years ago the reported total amount wagered on Internet poker was $5.7 billion, a great deal of money. By the year 2009, that number is expected to grow to almost $17 billion.

And there is also this. Gamblers Anonymous says it's seen anecdotal evidence of a big rise in the problem of poker gamblers, including teens and college students who have become essentially addicted to the game.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Poker, because of the nature of the game, attracts a different sort of gambler. It's more than simply the luck of the draw, though good cards still beat bad cards any old day. And while you'd never know it in talking to most players, poker shares one other thing with all other forms of gambling. There are more losers than winners.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): If poker on television has become unavoidable, poker on the Internet is mostly invisible and it is far bigger than you may imagine.

GREG RAYMER, WINNER, 2004 WORLD SERIES OF POKER: If we can somehow figure out everyone in the world who's making a living playing poker, I would guess 80 percent of them are online players, you know, people who primarily only play on the Internet.

BROWN: People like Ray Griffin, 50 years old, of Lafitte, Louisiana.

RAY GRIFFIN, GRIFFIN FISHING CHARTERS: I've only been playing for less than a year, so I want to learn how to do it as good as anybody.

BROWN: Mr. Griffin says he wants to leave this, his successful fishing charter business south of New Orleans, leave it behind so he can devote all his time to this, sitting with his laptop playing hand after hand of Internet poker. And right now, Mr. Griffin I a minnow in a sea of sharks.

GRIFFIN: I've lost a lot. When I first started, you know, I was what they call dead money. When I first started playing, I had no clue what I was doing and I was giving money away like it was free.

BROWN: Nobody knows for certain but by some estimates roughly $180 million a day is being wagered around the planet on online poker. Some win of course and, of course, most don't.

GRIFFIN: A lot of people can gloss it over and they can say, well, you know, it's, you know I'm playing my cards against theirs. The reality of it is, it's still gambling. There are people that are getting in this game now that have no idea what they're doing. They just jump in because they saw it on TV and they're losing lots of money.

BROWN: The big winners, of course, are the people who operate the Web sites. They collect a portion of every bet made and so far have not been touched by the law. All of their sites are based outside the United States. Their giant computer servers are on a single Indian reservation in Canada. Poker professionals love it all.

PHIL GORDON, HOST, "CELEBRITY POKER": People want to play this game and it's great that they don't have to leave their house in order to do it. You can sit down and play against the best players in the world or against the biggest chumps in the world and have a great time doing it.

BROWN: Back on the bayou, Griffin says he is smart enough to quit if the losses get too steep.

GRIFFIN: At some point, you know, I'll never bet the family farm. That will never happen. I know that.

BROWN: A gambler's famous last words.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We said earlier that poker is different. No one got famous playing blackjack. Craps hasn't produced any TV stars but poker has, more than one.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BROWN (voice-over): Before he was the fossil man, Greg Raymer was Dilbert.

RAYMER: My most recent job was with Pfizer in Groton, Connecticut. I was one of 25 patent attorneys on that site and one of something like 150 patent attorneys worldwide for the company.

BROWN: And before she was a glamorous redhead with a sitcom deal, Annie Duke was a single mom with four kids.

ANNIE DUKE, PROFESSIONAL POKER PLAYER: The first thing I am is a mom and, you know, if I have a choice between being a mom or anything else, that's going to win.

BROWN: Suffice it to say both are very different now.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cards have turned. Raymer wins it all. It's a three. Annie Duke has defeated nine of the strongest poker players in the world.

BROWN: Greg Raymer and Annie Duke personify what's happened in the world of high stakes poker since television catapulted the game from the backrooms into living rooms.

He won $5 million last spring at the biggest event there is, the World Series of Poker. She won big at the same tournament and her career earnings are north of $3 million. Truth be told poker players are a dime a dozen but good one, really good ones get rich and raise eyebrows.

RAYMER: I mean people would hear that I played poker. They may not say it to my face but they might say something to my wife later like if we're at a social event, you know, kind of like you know, you know, "Is everything OK? You know your husband's not like losing the mortgage or he's not losing the house, you know, or the savings, is he?"

DUKE: The things that people felt that it was OK to call me at the table, if I beat them in a hand, I mean they knew that I wasn't going to go outside and beat them up so, you know, I guess they felt a license to do that and it wasn't like anyone was defending me because they all sort of felt the same way.

BROWN: Both made it to the big time in different ways. Raymer essentially put himself up for auction because his dreams were bigger than his bankroll.

RAYMER: So, I had a strong reputation, especially with my friends on the Internet, as a good player so I made a proposal on the Internet just in the public poker discussion forum where I participated to say, you know, do you want to buy a piece of my action? I tripled my bankroll. About $30,000 came in from these people.

BROWN: Annie got help from her brother, Howard Letterer, already an established poker kingpin. DUKE: He said to me, "You should move down to Las Vegas because I really think you could be the first woman to ever really make a mark in this game." And, you know, I was like I'm just doing this for my money but he really had a vision for me and he really had a dream that I would be one of the best players in the world.

BROWN: A decade later, she was and she's riding her moment for all its worth, including the possibility of a network situation comedy this coming fall based on her life produced by her new close friend the actress Lisa Kudrow.

DUKE: I mean, you know, the TV came along and here I am this person who has this really anachronistic story for the world of poker. I mean nobody expects this kind of, you know, Ivy League educated mom of four person to be, you know, one of the best poker players in the world, how odd, you know, who's a woman, you know, how strange.

BROWN: No TV deals for Greg Raymer but he is exceedingly self assured, especially about that nickname, fossil man.

RAYMER: They call me fossil man because when I play poker I always use a fossil, you know, just a chunk of rock that has a fossil in it to put on top of my cards as a card protector.

BROWN: Both players, Raymer with his fossil, Annie with her Ipod, played in this poker tournament in Los Angeles called the Professional Poker Tour, sort of the PGA for card players. Like all gambling, poker requires a good deal of luck but like no other, there is some magic in poker which words can hardly capture.

DUKE: This is what I was raised for, obviously. My brother does the same thing. I mean we were really meant to be doing this and we both love this game and are so excited that other people are finding out how incredibly fascinating this game is, whether you're doing it for recreation or for a living.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: When the poker bug bites, it can bite hard. Five years ago, James McManus went to Las Vegas to cover the World Series of Poker for "Harper's Magazine." He came away a changed man. He came away a richer man too. His story about being seduced by the game became a book "Positively 5th Street," and Mr. McManus joins us from Chicago tonight, it's good to see you.

I have all these sort of basic questions, OK? On Internet poker, how do you know it's not a complete scam?

JAMES MCMANUS, AUTHOR, "POSITIVE 5TH STREET": That's a good question. My sense is that they have so much to lose right now if it turned out that the game wasn't fair and square that they would be -- they'd be out of their minds to let any -- any kind of a sneaky behind the back stuff be going on. I also happen to know several of the people who run these sites and everyone I know is trying to make a living in a fair way. BROWN: That's what they always say about the casinos in Las Vegas too (UNINTELLIGIBLE) no they do. I mean they have too much to lose. How do you know there are actually five other people sitting at the table and that those are the cards and there's an incredible amount of trust that seems to exist there?

MCMANUS: Yes, same kind of trust that the airplane is going to take off and stay up in the air for 2,000 or 3,000 miles. I don't play a lot on the Internet myself. I prefer live poker. It's a slightly different kind of game when you're not -- when you don't have an opportunity to read faces and body language to get a sense of whether the player is representing or misrepresenting their hand.

BROWN: That's my next question really is I said it earlier in the piece that good cards, you'd rather have good cards than bad cards but there is another kind of magic about a poker player and that's the psychology of a poker player.

MCMANUS: Yes. Yes, well everyone would rather be lucky than good. No one wins these tournaments or even makes the money without playing extremely well and getting extremely lucky. The best players don't always win. They don't even win the majority of the time and that's why the fields have gotten so big because anyone with reasonable poker skills can catch hands for three, four, five days, play well and, you know, win $5 million.

BROWN: Is there a common trait to good poker players?

MCMANUS: You know...

BROWN: You can't say they're lucky.

MCMANUS: I don't know if there's a common trait. There are so many different kinds, you know, Annie Duke. There are cowboys. There are (UNINTELLIGIBLE). There are people who are, you know, the 15, 16- year-old kids playing on the Internet illegal.

I think that card sense and mathematical skill to be able to figure out the pot odds when you're putting your money in the pot with the best hand or when it's likely to be the best hand that's the -- that's the basic. That's -- and beyond that, I think an ability to look at a person and get a strong sense of how much they love or don't love their hand.

BROWN: What do you look for?

MCMANUS: You know there's heat, there's -- there's eye movement. There's -- right now there's so much poker that's been televised that people have compiled DVDs of files of how Gus Hanson (ph) throws his tips into the pot when he's bluffing and how he throws them in when he's got a big hand. It's an accumulation of tiny little things that you can or can't sense from your opponent, especially when you're playing a huge pot against them.

BROWN: And just one question about the explosion on TV, was there some technological moment that took what essentially is a bunch of people sitting at a table holding their cards that changed, that made it a TV event?

MCMANUS: Absolutely. In March of 2003, Steve Lipscom (ph) and the people at the World Poker Tour started broadcasting in America the game in which the hole cards were exposed. They had these tiny little cards on the top of -- tiny little cameras on the top of the table that allowed the audience to see what the hole cards were.

And before that, watching big time poker or even small stakes poker was like watching bears hibernate and smoke. The players were extremely good at not giving away information about the strength of their hand, good poker, bad TV.

Now, people with the lipstick cameras, people are able to -- people in the audience have more information than the players contesting the pot, so it's not only entertainment but it's instructional.

BROWN: Good to have your time tonight. It's fun. Thank you.

MCMANUS: My pleasure.

BROWN: Thank you, James McManus with us tonight.

We have much more to come tonight. You can bet on that, including this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): After three days of intensive hearings, the FDA says three pain medications are safe enough to use despite their links to heart risk.

BETSY STUART CHANEY, TAKES CELEBREX: I'm willing for my quality of life to take those risks.

BROWN: When do a drug's benefits outweigh the risks and who should decide?

In Iraq, the sacred intersects with the unholy at one of Shia Islam's holiest times the violence that will not stop.

Troubling questions tonight about the drowning of a young Marine in boot camp, what was caught on video the day before he died?

JOHNNY THARP, FATHER: I don't know how they could treat my son the way we saw on that video. He never hurt nobody. He'd do anything that anybody asked.

BROWN: And the brawl that gave professional basketball a black eye. How did you find out about it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was watching, as you were, at eleven o'clock at night. It was on a competitive network and I was sitting in the kitchen.

BROWN: Did you go, "Oh, my God?" UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was actually more colorful than that.

BROWN: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But I did and I couldn't believe it.

BROWN: A NEWSNIGHT conversation with NBA Commissioner David Stern.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The popular arthritis drugs Vioxx, Celebrex and Bextra have been at the center of intensive hearings in Washington this week. The question before an FDA committee that convened the hearings, whether these drugs known as a class as Cox-2 inhibitors, some of the most widely used and heavily marketed drugs ever are safe enough to be sold to Americans and today that FDA committee said yes.

Here's CNN's Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It took three days of hardcore science and gut-wrenching emotion for the FDA Advisory Committee to decide, after extremely close votes, that the popular painkillers should remain for sale in the U.S. despite known heart risks but that decision won't change the minds of some patients who will always believe these medications are too risky and too deadly.

Like, Nancy Corran, she says her husband Jack lived an active life. His minor back pain was controlled with Vioxx until at age 64 he died suddenly of a heart attack.

NANCY CORRAN, HUSBAND DIED ON VIOXX: My husband could be alive right now if it wasn't for Merck and I feel that he was murdered.

GUPTA: We can never know for sure that Vioxx actually caused his heart attack. Although studies have previously shown the increased risk of heart attacks and strokes, Merck didn't take it off the market until September.

CORRAN: This man's life was taken away for something they knew about. He won't see his grandchildren. His grandchildren won't see him. I won't see him and I have to live with this because I didn't even get to say goodbye to the man and he died.

GUPTA: The research was similar on all three painkillers.

DR. ALASTAIR WOOD, CHAIR, FDA ADVISORY COMMITTEE: We've got data on Vioxx, on Bextra and on Celebrex from randomized control trials that show an increased cardiovascular risk.

GUPTA: But still to some, like Betsy Stuart Chaney, sidelined with pain after years of sports, the risks are worth taking.

CHANEY: I'm here to say would you all pick up your elbow and whack your funny bone and feel that pain that stops you in your tracks from doing what you're doing? All you want to do is say a bad word.

Well, I have cracked vertebrae in my neck and without Celebrex I start to lose the feeling in my hand and I can't grasp a paper. I can't hold onto something. I can't do things around my house. I'm willing for my quality of life to take those risks.

GUPTA: The committee says in allowing these drugs to stay on the market the warnings to doctors and patients must be made very clear. They're recommending the strictest warning a drug can have, a black box on the label and advertising will be limited as well, so look for fewer commercials.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, Atlanta.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Looking at some of the other stories that have made news around the country today, pressure growing on Choice Point, the company that collects and sells information on just about all of us. Officials in 38 states are demanding the company notify all consumers whose personal data may have been stolen, not just those in California where state law requires notification. An identity theft ring hacked security at Choice Point. It's unknown how much personal data may have been stolen.

The State of New Jersey is suing Blockbuster Video claiming the company's new no late fees policy is deceptive and not spelled out clearly to consumers. Under the policy that began January 1st, customers pay a restocking fee when a tape is a week overdue and after a month they're charged the entire retail value of the tape but no late fees. Blockbuster defends the policy.

The Borgata Casino in Atlantic City, what is this casino night, cocktail servers who put on weight could lose their jobs. Servers will be given a chance to drop the extra weight or they could face termination. Women's rights group and union officials call the policy discriminatory.

A jury in Massachusetts is ordering the "Boston Herald" to pay a judge there over $2 million. The judge sued the paper for libel claiming it wrongly quoted him saying a 14-year-old rape victim should "get over it." The "Herald" says it will appeal the decision.

Does the name Dominique Dawes ring a bell? If not, you certainly aren't a gymnastics fan or even a casual viewer. Ms. Dawes was a member of the gold medal gymnastics team at the '96 games in Atlanta. That's just one high point in what's been a very full life for this young woman, her story as we continue CNN's anniversary series "Then and Now."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANNOUNCER: Dominique Dawes tumbled into the spotlight during the 1996 Olympics as part of the magnificent seven gold medal winning gymnastics team. Awesome Dawesome became the first African American to win an individual gymnastics medal with a bronze in the floor exercise.

DOMINIQUE DAWES: It just meant a lot to do it for this country, my team and myself.

ANNOUNCER: After the games in Atlanta, Dawes turned heads on Broadway, dabbled in acting and modeling and cartwheeled her way through a Prince music video. She hung up her leotard in 1998 and started class at the University of Maryland but soon realized that gymnastics was not quite out of her system.

Dawes participated in her third Olympic games in 2000 in what she calls a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Dawes is now 28, has completely retired from gymnastics and splits her time between coaching and motivational speaking.

DAWES: It's really going out there and teaching young girls what being fit is all about.

ANNOUNCER: She's also president of the Women's Sports Foundation and has recently launched a new project called Go Girl Go.

DAWES: I feel like I do have to empower others and that's why, you know, I found these different platforms, these different venues that I feel like I've, you know, been able to touch lives in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: She's a great story.

Throughout the year as we celebrate CNN's 25 years of reporting the news, we'll look back at some of the stories that have impacted all of our lives. The series also gives us a chance to catch up with yesterday's newsmakers, see where they are and what they are up to today.

Coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight, another bad day in Iraq for Iraqis and Americans and if the combat wasn't dangerous enough, a young man dies in training in boot camp and a family wonders why, a break first.

Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Today, Shiites in Iraq began the holiest period of their religious calendar and it was met with some of the bloodiest violence since the elections were held last month, which is saying something. There were five bomb attacks in Baghdad alone. Three of the targets were mosques where people were gathered to pray. The attacks killed more than 30 people, wounded dozens more. Just north of Baghdad in Talifar (ph), U.S. troops engaged in a fierce gun battle with insurgents and two U.S. soldiers were killed today in other attacks, one by a roadside bomb. That attack wounded two other American soldiers.

In our CNN "Security Watch" tonight, Iran is on the president's mind as he prepares for a trip to Europe. Mr. Bush leaves on Sunday. He visits five nations -- rather three nations in five days looking to better relations somewhat ruffled in recent years. In a series of interviews at the White House with European journalists the president was asked if he would consider military action against Iran.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: First of all, you never want a president to say never but military action is certainly not, you know, it's never the president's first choice. Diplomacy is always the president's first -- at least my first choice and we've got a common goal and that is that Iran should not have a nuclear weapon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: The president said he hoped Iran could be persuaded to abandon any program having to do with nuclear weapons through a diplomatic initiative headed by European countries.

For many young boys, young girls too, boot camp is a huge wakeup call. They aren't children anymore. Most deal with it. Some grow from it. This is the story of a boy who died from it. The Marines are investigating the death of a West Virginia boy who drowned at boot camp at Paris Island.

His parents want answers, understandably, after they saw the tape of what preceded their son's death, pictures shot by CNN affiliate WIS in Charleston, South Carolina and reported by our Jason Bellini.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON BELLINI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His family describes Jason Tharp as a quiet boy who loved art.

THARP: He's just the kindest, gentlest person I ever knew.

BELLINI: He joined the Marines to get money for college. At boot camp he realized he made a mistake. A South Carolina TV station, WIS, visited Paris Island for a story on basic training and captured Tharp in a tense moment with his drill instructor. Another drill instructor explained what was happening.

MARINE SGT. ANTHONY DAVIS, DRILL INSTRUCTOR: Right now we have a recruit that's refusing to train. He was getting in the water and decided that he just wanted to quit and get out. He's been asked -- he would rather go to the brig right now than get back in the water.

BELLINI: Twenty-four hours later, Jason Tharp was dead. The Marines say he died as a result of "complications in the water." They say that's as specific as they'll get until they complete their investigation. His family is baffled by his death.

THARP: We don't -- we can't understand why and my little girl all she knows is her big brother's in heaven.

BELLINI: WIS showed Tharp's parents the video they shot the day before their son died. It shows Tharp's drill instructor grabbing him by the collar. It shows his drill instructor striking him.

THARP: I don't know how they could treat my son the way we saw in that video. He never hurt nobody. He would do anything anybody asked him. It's just not right.

BELLINI: A Marine spokesman at the Pentagon says the actions by the drill instructor seen in the video appear to violate regulations for dealing with recruits. Outsiders agree.

EUGENE FIDELL, MILITARY LAW EXPERT: Basically, you're not supposed to lay your hands on a recruit. You don't really want to have drill instructors grabbing a recruit by the collar, which is what happened here, and, also, you don't want them sort of basically hitting people with their elbows.

BELLINI: Tharp's drill instructor has been suspended, pending an investigation. A Marine spokesperson at Parris Island says the instructor is not commenting. Tharp's parents aren't certain there's any connection between what's on the tape and what happened to their son, but it confirms what they already knew. Their son was miserable in boot camp. He wanted to quit.

THARP: They just -- they treated him bad. They were singling him out, I guess, because he couldn't keep up.

BELLINI: In his last letter home, Tharp wrote, he was starting swim qualifications the next day. WIS's video shows the intensity of the water combat survivor training.

HEATHER BROWN, WIS-TV REPORTER: Did Jason know how to swim?

THARP: Not very good, but they assured us, the recruiter said that nothing would happen, they have enough people in the pool where nothing would happen to him.

BELLINI: But something did happen. Now Jason Tharp's family hopes it won't happen to another family's child.

Jason Bellini, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: There are new allegations of sexual abuse in the U.S. military. The watchdog group the Miles Foundation claims that 10 serial rapists, 10 of them, are serving in the military's ranks. The group says it's received reports, 307 reports, of sexual assault from U.S. service members in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kuwait and Bahrain. The foundation says military authorities have been alerted. In a statement today to CNN, the Pentagon said it is not aware of any report showing evidence of 10 sexual predators in the U.S. military.

These are not the only allegations. A report that will air Sunday on "60 Minutes" investigates claims of sexual abuse on American bases. One allegation comes from an eight-year Army veteran who claims she was assaulted by another lieutenant after a night of drinking at the officers club.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He raped you?

LT. JENNIFER DYER, NEW JERSEY NATIONAL GUARD: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Any way he could have misinterpreted your intentions?

DYER: I don't feel it is possible to misinterpret, no, don't do this, or, stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And we've learned tonight that military prosecutors at Fort Hood, Texas, have reduced by half the charges they filed against Army Private Lynndie England. She is accused in connection with the prisoner abuse scandal at Abu Ghraib and was photographed standing with naked Iraqi prisoners. England was initially charged with 19 counts of abuse and indecent acts. Now her lawyers say she faces nine counts that include conspiracy, cruelty and dereliction of duty. No comment from prosecutors on the change.

Still to come on NEWSNIGHT tonight, our conversation with NBA commissioner David Stern on that brawl between the Indiana Pacers and fans of the Detroit Pistons and how both players and fans have changed over time.

And what shows up on your doorstep tomorrow, morning papers for a Friday.

A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT on CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The sports buzz tonight is that the NHL and its players are either holding talks now or going to hold talks on Saturday in an attempt to salvage a season canceled by the owners and the lockout earlier this week.

Tonight, at least, that is one problem NBA commissioner David Stern doesn't have, which is not to say pro basketball has no problems. There are image problems, the hip-hop generation of players seeming to some more estranged from the fans than the Magics and the Michaels that preceded them. There was that violence problem, the brawl in suburban Detroit. But, on balance, the NBA is healthy, the fans happy, the ratings good. And David Stern is in no small part a reason. We talked to commissioner Stern the other day for tonight's NEWSNIGHT conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Do you think something fundamental has changed in the relationship in -- not just in your sport, but in sport, between players and fans?

DAVID STERN, NBA COMMISSIONER: I think something fundamental has changed because people know their athletes much more intimately than they ever have before because of press coverage, because of Internet sites, because of the coverage that used to be respectfully distant, but is now much more intimate. And I think they've come to expect, probably appropriately, more of their athletes and are disappointed when they don't get what they expect.

BROWN: Do they -- what is it they expect?

STERN: Well, they expect the athletes to behave well off the court, not to disappoint them. They expect them to demonstrate their enthusiasm, their love for the game, the fact that they are respectful of fans and appreciate the attention.

And when an athlete is covered in his weakness or disappoints in a certain way, the wrath of the fan is appropriately incurred. And, unfortunately, the fans paint all athletes with a broader brush, which is undeserving, but it happens.

BROWN: Do you think that there's a change in the way the athlete sees the fan?

STERN: Well, I think there's a change in the way that athletes view what's demanded of them. They come into the game. The media is much less interested in game coverage, because that's picked up on the Internet.

So, reporters stick mikes. You say the wrong thing. There's a big story saying something that you didn't wish you hadn't said. And you're 20 years old and all of a sudden you're being questioned. Your team would like you to make sure you do the pregame or the postgame interview. The locker room gets opened up until 45 minutes before the game and 10 minutes after the game.

Your sponsors are asking you to do a variety of things. And I think there's an enormous frenzy that, in some ways, also involves the fans being more demanding and perhaps letting their unhappiness, even at a particular game, be known, and really misbehavior by certain fans as well. So, there's sort of an interesting mix going on.

BROWN: I think anybody who watched you on the day after the brawl, and the look in your face, we'll never forget it. You've had a share of difficult days on the job. It goes with the territory. As you look back on that now, that day and what happened in Auburn Hills, how do you see it? STERN: I see it as an incident and not some representation of all things that are bad with players and fans.

I see it as a perfect storm of a fan who seems to have come down out of his seats and a player who was lying in a place where maybe he should not have been lying and a lot of things happening. And, poof, for one of my 27,000 games as commissioner, we had really a terrible, terrible circumstance.

And, unfortunately, it sort of permitted, indeed, invited intense repetition of the events, because it's all too delicious.

BROWN: How did you find out about it?

STERN: I was watching.

BROWN: You were?

STERN: At 11:00 at night, it was on a competitive network and I was sitting in the kitchen. And I...

BROWN: And did you go, oh, my God?

STERN: I -- it was actually more colorful than that.

BROWN: Yes.

STERN: But I did. And I couldn't believe it.

BROWN: Did you pick up the phone and call somebody?

STERN: I did. I did. And I said, here we go.

BROWN: I guess we're working tomorrow.

STERN: We're working tomorrow. We're working Sunday. We're working later. And, at 6:00 a.m., the tapes were delivered to my house on Saturday morning.

BROWN: You alluded to this.

Fairly or not, people -- basketball is such a complicated -- for all the reasons, in fact, that you have mentioned, the intimacy of it. The players have changed. Society has changed. Fans have changed. I mean, stuff changes. It did become -- it has become in some people's minds the representation of all that is wrong with basketball players and, in some respects, all that's wrong with sports.

STERN: Right, and all that's wrong with fan behavior.

BROWN: And fan behavior.

STERN: And in so doing, it gives us an opportunity to say, stop, reset. It's not the end of the world. We're all adults and we're people of goodwill. And we, fans, players, management, security and television folks, can say, you know what? This is a good opportunity to examine it, reset it and demonstrate that sport, at its best, brings people together, has great convening power, and doesn't have to be an example of anything.

BROWN: I want to talk about a number of other things. We need to take a break first.

We're talking with NBA commissioner David Stern and we'll continue in a moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We're talking with NBA Commissioner David Stern at the beginning now of the All-Star weekend that's going on.

All-Star weekends are great celebrations for leagues. And they're fun to watch. They're not necessarily the greatest exhibitions of defensive basketball. You look forward to this one? Will this one be a good one for you?

STERN: This is going to be a great one. This is...

BROWN: Because?

STERN: Because it's a celebration of our game at a time when there were questions post-Larry, post-Michael, post-everybody. What can we do? And here we have the grand old men of the All-Star game, Grant Hill and Shaquille O'Neal, and a cast of youngsters and the rookie and sophomore game, and the slam dunk and the All-Star Game, a very good, competitive league, and really a whole bunch of young men have taken center stage.

BROWN: Have you sort of given up worrying about the fact that kids are coming out too soon and that -- you've got high school kids who come out.

STERN: Yes.

BROWN: That doesn't happen a lot, but it does happen. And, obviously, one of your big stars right now, certainly the star to be, is that. Nobody seems to finish school anymore.

STERN: I haven't given up worrying about it.

In fact, I think it would be great if we could have a -- right now, our entry age requirement is 18. I'd love to raise it to 20. I think it would send a great statement. It would get our general managers out of high school and junior high school gymnasia, scouting players who are too young and should not be driving, no less thinking about playing. I think the players would eventually get to us. It might actually help the college game. And it's a subject of intense negotiation.

BROWN: One of the things people say, I'm sure you hear this a lot, is that the individuals play great, but the game itself isn't played as well as it used to be. Do you buy that at all? Is it just played differently than it used to be?

STERN: I would say it's played differently.

You have maestros who can do things at the age of 15 that some of the greatest players in our history didn't do at the peak of their career. So you have got standards in athleticism and talent that's going up. And the truth is -- and I think the Pistons demonstrated it. And, interestingly enough, international basketball demonstrated it. And I think the Spurs and the Suns and the Sonics are demonstrating it every night. And that's a pathetic appeal to your Seattle roots.

BROWN: Thank you. I appreciate that.

STERN: That teamwork always outs and that the great players are the ones that make their teammates better.

So, we may have had intervening years where, when scoring was down, people would begin to talk about individualism, but we know that team play is what always wins.

BROWN: One or two personal questions and we'll get you out of here.

When you graduated law school, did you ever imagine your life would play out the way it's played out?

STERN: I was looking forward earnestly to being a partner at a New York City law firm, which I did become. And then I had the opportunity to go to the NBA for a couple years and I said, I'll give this a try.

BROWN: And were you a basketball fan at the time?

STERN: I was...

BROWN: New York has a great -- it has a great basketball history.

STERN: Carl Braun, Jimmy Bectold (ph), Ray Felix, Harry Gallatin, I grew up reading from the back of "The Daily News." It's a newspaper that used to exist, for everyone who is watching, or "The Mirror," "The News," "The Journal American," "The Post." You name it. You just read from -- well, some were in tabloids. But you read from back to front.

And I just loved everything about the Knicks and my then beloved New York baseball Giants. But I was disappointed.

BROWN: Who is the greatest basketball player you ever saw? Can you answer that? STERN: No. But I would -- I'll give it a try.

BROWN: Give me a couple.

STERN: I'll give you a couple.

Of course, it's -- Magic was on the court and he was -- not only did everything, but his face.

BROWN: The exuberance of Magic.

STERN: His face said, I'm loving this.

BROWN: Yes.

STERN: And Larry would step back to shoot the three, saying, in your face. I could take a two, but I'm going to step back.

And, of course, Michael just said, I'm better than you are and if you push me, I'm going to compete better than you. And those are three of recent memory.

BROWN: People who follow sports, I think, have a great appreciation for where the league was two decades ago, the ups and downs that it has gone through, the way you have navigated it all. And the fact that you're still watching ball games at 11:00 at night speaks pretty well.

STERN: It's a great job. And it's -- with its global reach and the women's leagues and the like and technology, it promises only to continue to be fun and to present new opportunities.

BROWN: Have a great weekend.

STERN: Thank you very much.

BROWN: Thank you. It's nice to see you.

STERN: Don't forget to watch us.

BROWN: Good deal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: David Stern, the NBA commissioner, we talked with him last week.

We'll take a break. Morning papers when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. We haven't used "The International Herald Tribune" in a while. Don't know why. But we'll start off with "The International Herald Tribune," published in Paris by "The New York Times." In the middle here, "Chinese Reluctant to Lean on North Korea," an analysis piece, kind of a staid headline, but the papers don't necessarily stay that way.

"The Washington Times." Just about everybody put the FDA panel story on the front page. "FDA Panel Clears Painkiller Use, Says Benefits Outweigh Health Risks." It's an interesting balance for people. Down here in the corner, if you can capture that for me, "Catholic Diocese Pass Checks For Abuse." This is the audit of diocese around the country. And most seem to be conforming to the policy set in place to eliminate or reduce abuse. But there were still 1,000-plus cases reported in the audit.

"The Examiner" of Washington, this would be the free newspaper in Washington, if you don't want to pay the quarter or the half-dollar for the other papers. Down here, I like the headline, "Thinkin' Lincoln." It's President Day weekend. Our old friend Abraham is now a bobblehead, a tomato seed and an animated drunk. Goodness. Saved the Union.

"The Oregonian" out in Portland, Oregon. I liked a number of things about this story. "A Life Off Course" is the headline. Bill Johnson, the skier. "Life has taken a tough turn since a brain injury." One of the things I think we in the news business ought to do more of actually is revisit stories and revisit characters in stories. The paper does a nice job on this. So, good for "The Oregonian."

The local story in "The San Antonio Express-News" up on top here. "SAPD," San Antonio Police Department, "Says Pittman," who is the assistant or deputy chief, "Is Clean in Sex Case." I'm sure he's glad to see that headline. This picture, if you can get it, is in a number of papers today. It's is a picture out of Iraq today, a young man crying on a coffin. "Terrorists Prey on Shiites" is the headline.

Speaking of Iraq, "The Chattanooga Times Free Press." "Handling Iraq on Their Own. Area Soldiers Training Iraqi Troops to Take Over Security For Their Country." The paper has done a wonderful job in keeping track of local kids, Tennessee kids. But if you're in Iraq, you're probably not a kid, right? So, good for them at that.

"Philadelphia Inquirer" leads a little soft. "Apprentice Wanted. Hundreds Arrive All Fired Up to Snare NBC Slots." If you work nights, you really don't know what that's about.

And I bet we're out of time, right? OK. The weather tomorrow in Chicago, according to "The Chicago Sun-Times..."

(CHIMES)

BROWN: Thank you very much -- is "insipid."

We'll wrap it up in a moment. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Running a little late tonight. Have a wonderful weekend. We're all back here on Monday.

Until then, good night for all of us.

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