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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Inside Brian Nichols' Escape & Surrender; Case Against Michael Jackson Weakened; Feds Crack Down on MS-13
Aired March 15, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
Getting back to normal and getting back to business we learn again today are very different things. At the Fulton County Jail in Atlanta, Brian Nichols shackled appeared before a judge for the re- filing of his rape charges against him. Mr. Nichols spoke just briefly, one sentence, then taken back to jail to await multiple murder charges.
Meantime, at the courthouse today a vigil was held, questions asked about mistakes and missed opportunities.
We begin tonight with CNN's Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Deputies armed with weapons, a sophisticated courthouse video system, silent alarms, all safeguards in the Fulton County Courthouse that did not provide safety.
CNN has learned Judge Roland Barnes' secretary pushed a silent alarm button, not once but twice during the siege. A response only came after the judge and his court reporter had been killed.
It's still not known if anyone ever heard the alarm or saw Nichols stalking around the courthouse complex on the video system's 40 cameras. That system also captured Nichols' overpowering a female sheriff's deputy but there's no indication anyone was monitoring that either.
DON CLARK, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: This thing is going to be reviewed. I can assure you it's going to be reviewed. Policies and procedures will be looked at.
TUCHMAN: Police were very close to getting Nichols after he escaped but a fateful decision at this parking garage prevented a quick capture. Employees of the garage say they saw Nichols drive a hijacked vehicle through the lot smashing through the entrance gate to escape from police chasing him.
They say the told police to wait in a central location inside the garage where all escape routes could be seen. But the workers tell CNN the officers instead drove through the garage and that Nichols walked out of the unguarded exit with two guns visible in the back of his pants. The man in charge of courthouse security has just been on the job since January.
SHERIFF MYRON FREEMAN, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA: When I first took this office, my first priority was the jail and that's where I've been focusing most of my attention. But now we're going to review all the procedures in the office.
TUCHMAN: Hours after Brian Nichols walked out of this garage, leaving police behind, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agent David Wilhelm was shot to death in another part of town. Authorities say Brian Nichols was his killer.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Each of these mistakes or missteps contributed to the disastrous outcome in Atlanta on Friday but not one of them changes the simple fact that the awful chain of events began with a gun.
Once Brian Nichols had Deputy Cynthia Hall's weapon in his hand, there was nothing to stop him from using it. But a new technology, not available yet but possibly available in about two years, could do just that, stop a criminal from shooting a stolen gun.
Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This automatic being fired by Officer Robert O'Hala (ph) is no ordinary gun. It's a smart gun or at least a prototype of one. When it's perfected, this weapon will allow only Office O'Hala to fire it, not a criminal, and certainly not a child.
DONALD SEBASTIAN, SR. VICE PRES., NJ INSTITUTE OF TECH: It really makes the decision while you're pulling the trigger. There is no activation period here. While you grab the gun and you pull the trigger that's when we're making the identity read.
FEYERICK: Donald Sebastian heads research and development at the New Jersey Institute of Technology. Five years ago, state lawmakers asked him to find out if guns could be made safer and smarter.
MICHAEL RECCE, ASSOC. PROF., NJ INSTITUTE OF TECH: The first stage usually is something like this.
FEYERICK: Associate Professor Michael Recce was tapped to find the answer and though he didn't know a lot about guns he did know a lot about human behavior.
RECCE: One of the things that I was struck by is how dynamic behavior, certain types of behavior are so repeatable, like the way you grab a pen or a golf club.
FEYERICK: The professor discovered the same was true of guns. RECCE: We used police officers and students. We have them grab a plastic gun and we look at where their hand went and we saw that repeatedly their hands were always going to the same place.
FEYERICK: So the professor and his team of graduate students placed tiny sensors in the hand grip.
RECCE: As the person grabs the gun their fingers will touch some of these grips, some of these sensors and their pressure measurement will be measured over time.
FEYERICK: Measured and used as a key to unlock and activate the gun in a tenth of a second even by a novice.
I had more control over the gun.
RECCE: Exactly.
FEYERICK (on camera): Not that I'm used to holding a gun but it feels the same. Each time that I fired it, it feels exactly the same.
RECCE: OK.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Not everyone is a fan of the new technology. Chris Cox lobbies for the National Rifle Association.
CHRIS COX, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: This high tech is high risk. It's unsafe. It's unproven and it's unreliable and a less reliable gun is a dumber gun.
SEBASTIAN: The gun itself is not foolproof. The electronics won't be foolproof but we can ensure that we have taken the technology to the level required, that it actually is better than the current reliability of a mechanical gun.
FEYERICK: In the future, a single gun could be programmed so that many shooters can use it.
(on camera): You're telling me that you could actually input the hand sensors of 100 people and the gun would be able to be activated by 100 people as long as they're authorized users?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. How many numbers can you put in your cell phone?
BILL MARSHALL, FORMER NJ POLICE OFFICER: It would actually have to be used by the working officer. You have to be able to shoot it left-handed, right-handed and from various positions, which we might encounter in an actual street scene. I want to make sure the gun never goes to the point that it fails for us.
FEYERICK: Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: In a day full of missed steps and lost opportunities the action of one player in the drama, arguably the most important player, stand in stark contrast.
During the seven hours that Ashley Smith says she was held hostage by Brian Nichols the 26-year-old single mother not only kept her presence of mind, she won the trust of her captor. Experts in hostage negotiations say Ms. Smith played it by the book, even if she had no doubt never even seen the book.
Here's CNN's Heidi Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEY SMITH, FORMER HOSTAGE: I told him that I was supposed to go see my little girl the next morning at ten o'clock and I asked him if I could go see her and he told me no.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For former NYPD hostage negotiator Wallace Zeins one thing is certain. Ashley Smith is alive today because of her ability to stay calm, use her head and negotiate like a pro.
WALLACE ZEINS, FMR. NYPD HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: She was superb. You know what, if she was a police officer, I would want her on my hostage team. She did a fabulous job of maintaining control of her faculties and his faculties. She controlled him.
COLLINS: We asked Zeins to sit down with us and review the steps Ashley Smith took to make it out alive.
SMITH: My husband died four years ago and I told that if he hurt me my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy.
COLLINS (on camera): What is she doing there?
ZEINS: She hit a weak spot on him. She told him about what the most important thing is and she spoke in non-threatening words. The one thing in hostage negotiating the longer you talk the better chance you have of getting out of that situation because time is on your side. You're developing a rapport.
COLLINS: She is relating to him.
ZEINS: Absolutely.
COLLINS: Already.
SMITH: I talked to him about my family. I told him about things that had happened in my life. I asked him about his family. I asked him why he did what he did.
COLLINS: She questioned him, is that dangerous?
ZEINS: It's -- you know questioning the hostage is dangerous. You don't want to get into that situation. You want to speak when spoken to when taken by a hostage. You want to be able to be calm. Hostage incidents are long.
COLLINS (voice-over): But at this point, Zeins says, Ashley Smith had already formed a bond with Nichols, who began to trust her.
SMITH: So, we went back to my house and got in the house and he was hungry so I cooked him breakfast.
COLLINS: She knows what kind of a violent man she's dealing with and yet she somehow is able to keep it together well enough to make pancakes for him.
ZEINS: Well, she at that point had him under control. The table is reversed. As he makes that exit from that location he flip-flopped "What should I do?" And he made the choice to surrender through her help.
COLLINS: Heidi Collins, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: More to come tonight, starting with a family business, the kind you don't want anywhere near your family.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSE: They'll do anything like they won't care about killing anybody.
A. BROWN (voice-over): They are a crime family, fast-growing, deadly and possibly coming to a street near you. Easy to find a member, harder to find one who will talk but we did.
He's not smiling, not yet, but Michael Jackson just might be breathing easy after the star witness against him takes a battering.
(on camera): Is there any other reason the school asked you not to come back other than this reference in the paper you wrote to being supportive of the idea of corporal punishment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I do not.
A. BROWN (voice-over): When it comes to spanking kids in school is free speech getting smacked around?
And, from the NCAA hardwood to Iraq two extraordinary men and their enduring connection.
COL. BOB BROWN, U.S. ARMY, 1ST BRIGADE, 25TH INFANTRY: I learned a lot of leadership at West Point but nowhere more than on the basketball courts with Coach K.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may say that I bring out in him something but he brings out more in me because he's right on top of things.
A. BROWN: He's the coach. He's the colonel. And, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
A. BROWN: Erica, thank you. We'll get back to you in about a half hour.
The prosecution in the Michael Jackson case has now fired its best weapon. The jury has heard from the accuser. It wasn't always pretty and he wasn't always consistent but only a fool tries to read the mind of a jury.
Here's CNN's Miguel Marquez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His accuser is off the stand and the self-described King of Pop is feeling pretty good.
LINDA DEUTSCH, ASSOCIATED PRESS: This is the most critical part of the trial. We probably have learned more now from the accuser and his siblings than we are going to learn from any other witness. The rest is filling in the blanks.
MARQUEZ: Jackson's accuser, a 15-year-old boy, told his story over four days. The cross-examination by Jackson lawyer Tom Mesereau was relentless in attacking the boy's character and credibility.
DEUTSCH: It's the kind of cross-examination I think they probably teach in law school.
MARQUEZ: Linda Deutsch has covered famous trials since the 1970s. She says the cross-examination worked because it established a motive for why the boy would lie, his love for the good life at Neverland and his anger at rejection.
DEUTSCH: He wanted to show he loved it so much that when Jackson told the family they couldn't come back he decided he was going to get even and concoct the story of molestation in order to harm Jackson.
MARQUEZ: The teenager testified that Jackson twice masturbated him to ejaculation. But under cross-examination the teen was vague on when the alleged molestations happened.
ANDREW COHEN, LEGAL ANALYST: I think that everything he did hurt his credibility, from the way he answered questions to the way he acted on the stand.
MARQUEZ: The boy admitted that after Jackson cut his ties to his family he told the dean of his school that the pop star never touched him. But on further questioning by the district attorney, the boy said the reason he said that was because he was embarrassed because other kids were calling him "the kid that got raped by Michael Jackson." One analyst says the boy's testimony wasn't enough.
COHEN: I think prosecutors made a calculation over the course of the last couple of days that the less the young man said the better off the prosecution's case would be.
MARQUEZ: The teen also testified that after the Martin Bashir documentary aired on ABC in February, 2003, Jackson conspired to imprison his family at Neverland. But under cross-examination, Jackson's lawyer hammered away at the conspiracy allegation, getting the accuser to admit that his family left whenever they wanted and never complained once.
COHEN: If the conspiracy is weak, everything else is going to be weak too because the conspiracy is the foundation upon which the molestation charges are built.
MARQUEZ: On the stand now is Sergeant Steve Robel (ph) with the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Office.
(on camera): He's the lead investigator on this case. He's being cross-examined by Michael Jackson's attorney and he's testifying to a time line, a time line of key events the prosecution says happened in this case.
Miguel Marquez CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: CNN's "Security Watch" tonight goes beyond the headlines. Over the last several weeks, more than 100 alleged members of the MS-13 gang were arrested in raids around the country.
Compared to the Crips or the Bloods or the Mafia for that matter, M13 has yet to make a public name for itself but with 10,000 members it will just ask them, our report tonight from CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDOETAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the MS-13 welcome wagon. New recruits are violently beaten for 13 seconds by gang members. This is how they treat friends. Their enemies receive much worse.
JOSE: They will do anything like they don't care about killing anybody.
ARENA: He should know. This MS-13 member in his early 20s, who we will call Jose, agreed to be interviewed if his identity could be kept a secret. Seen here flashing gang signals, he's been a member since he was 16 and wants out but says the only way he's leaving the gang is in a casket.
JOSE: It is a family. That is why you have to stay in, never can get out.
ARENA: Jose says he can't even remove the many gang tattoos on his arms and legs.
JOSE: You can get killed for taking off your tattoos. ARENA: It's the type of loyalty once enjoyed by traditional organized crime families and the FBI has decided to fight them the same way.
CHRIS SWECKER, FBI ASST. DIRECTOR: They are an emerging and up and coming gang. They are making efforts to organize themselves on a national scale and even an international scale. We see an opportunity through a coordinated effort to knock them down before they become a force in more cities in the country.
ARENA: Mara Salvatrucha or MS-13 was formed in Los Angeles in the late '80s by immigrants from El Salvador. Today, gang units coast to coast are battling as many as 10,000 members in 33 states according to the Justice Department and the number of MS members increases five- fold if you include other countries. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents have also launched a new gang initiative aimed at MS, arrested 103 members in the last month.
MICHAEL GARCIA, ASST. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We can not only take them off the streets, detain them but we can deport them from the United States.
ARENA: Still, even after deportation, many make their way back to the United States.
DAMIEN LEVESOUI, LAPD GANG UNIT: The moment you start coming to the park and you start hanging out with other gangsters then it's not OK with me.
ARENA: Los Angeles Police Officers Damien Levesoui and Matthew Ziegler work MS full time as part of a gang unit that patrols the downtown area.
LEVESOUI: MS is unlike any other gang. They are very violent. They're very -- they have a very, very tight lip with their inner workings whereas other gang members do it for the machismo, MS does it for the business oriented.
ARENA: Their so-called business mostly involves drug and weapons trafficking, auto theft and robberies and violently protecting their turf, often marked by graffiti.
LEVESOUI: The gang's abbreviation, MS, from Mara Salvatrucha. They have MS written. You have 13, which signifies they're a southern California street gang. It has the reference to the Mexican Mafia.
ARENA: The LAPD has been dealing with the MS problem the longest and often lends its expertise to other police departments. Cops are using experimental technology to match pictures of suspected MS members with those already on file and California courts have issued injunctions restricting the movements of known gang members.
OFFICER MATTHEW ZIEGLER, LAPD GANG UNIT: It's a court order that prohibits them from doing certain activities, such as hanging out together, being out after ten o'clock, being in the area of alcohol and my partner and I are going out and we're enforcing the gang injunction and it's working.
ARENA: Enforcement, though, is just half the battle. Communities have to convince young people that gangs are not the answer. Jose says since he's been a member, MS has gone after younger recruits, as young as 12.
JOSE: Now, I see a lot of kids, you know, from school, trying to be in MS, trying to be tough because they think they can get any girl, you know. Being in MS gets, what they see is like MS is getting big, you know.
ARENA: And he says this new generation is even more lethal, showing no remorse for spilling innocent blood; for CNN's America Bureau, Kelli Arena in Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Jared Lewis knows MS well. A former California cop, he's now a consultant to police anti-gang units around the country. We talked with him earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Mr. Lewis, how are they different from let's say the Crips and the Bloods?
JARED LEWIS, DIRECTOR, KNOWGANGS.COM: Well, the major difference of Mara Salvatrucha or commonly known as MS-13 is they have the ties from El Salvador. They have ties in Mexico. They have ties throughout South America. And they are currently one of the fastest growing gangs in our nation and they're definitely creating more havoc and more problems throughout our nation than any other gang as a whole right now.
A. BROWN: Are they loosely organized or are they tightly organized? Is there a clear hierarchy and are there middle men and then there are soldiers in the way the Mafia is organized?
LEWIS: Well, it's organized along what they call cliques or individual sets but the thing with them is each one has their own individual leadership, yet they can also turn to the other sets for maybe a place to hide, maybe for some sort of drug transaction or some sort of criminal communication to continue their criminal enterprise.
A. BROWN: Are they difficult to infiltrate? Is it hard to get intelligence on them?
LEWIS: Yes, with MS-13 they are a little bit more difficult because with them they have promoted a higher level of going after people who cooperate with law enforcement authorities.
A. BROWN: Well, the Crips and the Bloods weren't exactly sweeties at that sort of deal. The Mafia isn't sort of a sweetie on that sort of a deal. So, in a sense I guess are we looking at just one more gang on the landscape or are we looking at something far more complicated that will be much more difficult to deal with? LEWIS: MS-13 is one of the only gangs that has very strong ties to another nation, to another country. In El Salvador, MS-13 is by far that country's biggest problem. What translates to our nation is we have these gang members here who are crossing our boundaries into their country. They're going back and forth. They have ties to other nations to get -- to bring in high amounts of drugs, to traffic in weapons, to traffic in human beings.
A. BROWN: Just a final question. These arrests that went down the other day, 130-some people, we're talking about chump change aren't we, I mean compared to the number of total members?
LEWIS: That's correct. That translates to almost less than one percent and there's approximately 10,000 documented MS-13 members within our nation right now. But when you put it into perspective, taking one gang member off the street, you're taking one career criminal off the street and that actually will reflect in a reduction of crime wherever that gang member lives.
But is this arrest or this operation going to stop MS-13, no. They're continuing to grow and they're going to continue to be a problem, a growing problem in our nation like it has been in the many other South American nations that they operate in.
A. BROWN: Mr. Lewis, good to meet you, thanks for your time tonight.
LEWIS: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Jared Lewis.
In a moment, the lessons of Duke's Coach K and how they're keeping young men and women in the game and healthy on the battlefields of Iraq.
And later, a word or two from Coach R, that would be the rooster, wouldn't it? A good one too tonight, take a break first.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A. BROWN: Another American soldier died in Iraq today, an explosion in Baghdad. Up north, Mosul has also seen its share of violence. A suicide bomber last week killed dozens.
Mosul is where the Army's 1st Brigade of the 25th Infantry is on patrol under the command of a man who attended West Point, a man who learned how to be a leader from a man who was and till is a leader.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN (voice-over): They first met on the plains of West Point, nearly three decades ago, one man at the beginning of a spectacular career in his chosen profession, the other a leader in training for a far different line of work.
B. BROWN: I learned a lot of leadership at West Point but nowhere more than on the basketball court from Coach K and it's really stuck with me for all these years.
A. BROWN: Coach K is Mike Krzyzewski, who not only attended West Point but was its head basketball coach in the mid to late '70s. Now, of course, he's the head man at Duke, famous and wealthy. His teams always it seems among the best in the country. But he remembers long ago, remembers Bob Brown.
KRZYZEWSKI: We were lucky to get Bob. Bob was a caliber of player that West Point doesn't usually get. He could have played in the Big 10 or the ACC and been a good player and we felt that he was one of our best recruits during my five-year period there.
A. BROWN: One game stands out in particular, his star player hitting the winning shot against Fordham in 1979.
B. BROWN: I was sitting there at my locker feeling real good. And he said, hey, let's play some defense now, huh? And, you know, at the time, when you're young, you think, boy, I just hit the game- winning shot. You know, he should be thanking me for that.
KRZYZEWSKI: And so he looked at me, like -- and I said, look, the offense was great. I said, but for you to be a complete player, you're going to have to play better defensively. And what I was just trying to say to him is, OK, I understand you did something well, but you've got more to give. And I knew that would stick with him. And that's good because he did become a better player.
B. BROWN: He was looking ahead and instilling that discipline to improve and be better every day and not just except mediocrity.
A. BROWN: Over the years, they've not only kept in touch, but, as adults, become good friends. Then Bosnia erupted and Coach K. sent the colonel 300 basketballs and Duke T-shirts.
B. BROWN: In the Serb sector, there were huge basketball fans. And so we gave kids the basketballs and shirts on patrols. And they went from not talking to us, the adults, to telling us everything going on.
A. BROWN: For the past six moss, Colonel Brown has been in command of 8,000 Army troops in the 1st Brigade of the 28th Infantry in Mosul in Iraq. One day on patrol, they flew a special American flag and sent it back across the ocean back to Duke.
B. BROWN: I took a picture with the whole crew and the Stryker with the flag and then had a certificate, which really certified it was taken around on a combat patrol. And it talks about how freedom isn't free. And we're just proud to be part of their -- to have them as part of our family.
A. BROWN: The flag and the certificate are now in Coach K.'s office. KRZYZEWSKI: He has a passion for what he does, brings out in me -- he may say that I bring out in him something, but he brings out more in me, because he's right on top of things. And, of course, he's doing things at the highest level.
A. BROWN: They inhabit vastly different worlds, of course, but they remain connected by what they shared long ago and who they've become since.
B. BROWN: It's really stuck with me for all these years. And I'm just very proud to consider him a friend and proud to -- very, very proud to have played for him. He's just a wonderful person.
KRZYZEWSKI: I think about Bob every day. I carry one of their Lancer insignias with me. I have a picture of he and his men. Just, you know, at times, where I feel I'm weak as a leader or unsure or down or saying, you know, what am I doing this for, I just look at that and say, you know, it's like a slap in the face and say, you're lucky. You know, this guy's doing it at the highest level.
And, in some small way, you're a part of it, because he's put you in his heart at some time in his life, and he still has you there. So, use his heart to motivate you right now in what you're doing. Bob is the guy I think about every day and the men and women serving under him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Still to come tonight, is the question of spanking kids in school so radioactive that simply asking the question can get you in trouble?
A break first. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A. BROWN: Scott McConnell has been studying for his masters in teaching at Le Moyne College in Syracuse, New York. But, recently, the school told him he can't continue his studies there. That decision came after he wrote a paper that, among other things, advocated corporal punishment in schools.
It's fair to say that spanking in the classroom is controversial in this country. In New York, it's against the law. But Mr. McConnell didn't spank anyone. He simply spoke his mind.
We talked to him the other day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Well, let's start with what seems to me the most basic question here. As far as you know, is there any other reason the school asked you not to come back other than this reference in the paper you wrote to being supportive of the idea of corporal punishment? SCOTT MCCONNELL, FORMER LE MOYNE COLLEGE GRADUATE STUDENT: No, I do not. As outlined in my dismissal letter, it was my mismatch of personal beliefs regarding teaching and learning and the Le Moyne College program goals.
A. BROWN: Up to that point, how have your grades been?
MCCONNELL: I have a 3.78 GPA. I have three A-minuses, one A and a B-plus.
A. BROWN: So, your grades are fine.
MCCONNELL: Yes, they are.
A. BROWN: OK.
Did anyone ever say to you, these are core beliefs here at this college and we only want people here who have this set of core beliefs?
MCCONNELL: No, they did not.
A. BROWN: If the policy of anyone who hired you was that, no matter how strongly you believe in corporal punishment, we don't allow it, as an employee of that school district, you'd follow that policy, correct?
MCCONNELL: That is a correct answer.
A. BROWN: OK.
MCCONNELL: I would not break the law.
A. BROWN: OK, or break the rule?
MCCONNELL: Exactly.
A. BROWN: Forget the law for a second. This is -- school districts, depending on the state, might have different policies, and I'm just trying to establish here that you understand that management has the right to set policy and that our job as employees is to execute policy, even if we don't always agree with it, correct?
MCCONNELL: That is a correct answer.
A. BROWN: OK. Final question, are you going to sue them?
MCCONNELL: I am just hoping that Le Moyne will follow their guidelines about academic freedom. I'm keeping my options open. I'm not going to say I'm going to sue them or anything like that. I'm actually trying to...
A. BROWN: Are you trying to work it out with them?
MCCONNELL: I am. I'm in the process of writing an appeal letter. TheFire.org is reviewing that appeal letter. I would like to go back to this school, because I feel like I can add something to Le Moyne. But Le Moyne refuses to let me in there, I will consider other options.
A. BROWN: Scott, good luck to you. We wish you nothing but the best.
MCCONNELL: Thank you.
A. BROWN: Thank you.
MCCONNELL: Thank you.
A. BROWN: Appreciate your time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Well, as you can imagine, the officials at Le Moyne College in Syracuse see it all differently. We also spoke to John Smarrelli, who is the provost at the university.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Scott says that the reason he was asked -- or told -- not to come back, continue his education at the school, is because in a paper he wrote that he was supportive of the idea of corporal punishment. Is that the reason that the school asked him, told him not to come back?
JOHN SMARRELLI, LE MOYNE COLLEGE PROVOST: Mr. McConnell did write this particular paper for a particular course that he enrolled in last semester.
He expressed his views about his teaching philosophy. At that point, we collected this as one piece of evidence. And, in fact, the paper was graded on the merits of the paper itself. Subsequently, however, this paper was part of the portfolio that was evaluated by various professors at Le Moyne College in a very systematic way. And in doing so, we felt it was our responsibility, the responsibility of Le Moyne College, that we could not certify Scott to teach in New York state.
A. BROWN: Beyond the question of corporal punishment, can you tell me what other views are incompatible with the law?
SMARRELLI: New York state requires one to have a multicultural classroom. In Mr. McConnell's case, there was strong evidence that he did not support a multicultural classroom, a second violation of New York state laws.
A. BROWN: I can imagine that people, that many people, whether they agree with corporal punishment or not, are going to get a little uncomfortable at the idea that, in a university, merely holding a belief could get you removed from a program.
SMARRELLI: That's an issue I'd like to clarify. Mr. McConnell was not expelled from Le Moyne College. Mr. McConnell was not admitted to Le Moyne college. I think that difference has got to be made clearly.
A. BROWN: Finally, do you think there's any way, realistically, that you and he, you, the university, and he, can work this out, can negotiate your way through this, so that this decision might be reversed, or are we in that uncomfortable area where lawyers start getting involved?
SMARRELLI: When this case first broke, probably nearly two months ago now, I called Mr. McConnell and asked him, would he like to come to meet with me to present his case? I was told by Mr. McConnell that, under his own legal advice, he did not want to come and see me.
So, I have put the ball in his court.
A. BROWN: OK.
SMARRELLI: And, at this point in time, I will meet with him if he is willing to come and present his case to me.
A. BROWN: We appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Nice to meet you.
SMARRELLI: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Just, on the paper the kid wrote, he got an A.
Still to come tonight, making lunch for a million hungry customers a day, no problem, that, eh?
We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A. BROWN: A lunch break in a moment. Table for a million, please.
First, today's headlines from Atlanta and CNN's Erica Hill -- Erica.
HILL: Sounds like a tall order, Aaron.
Meantime, in the headlines, Italian troops could begin leaving Iraq as soon as September. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi says he has begun discussion with U.S. and Iraqi officials about a partial withdrawal. Berlusconi faces widespread public opposition to Italy's presence in Iraq.
Tomorrow, Scott Peterson learns if he will be sentenced to death for killing his wife, Laci, and their unborn son. That was the recommendation of the jury that convicted Peterson. The judge has the option of reducing the sentence, but is expected to follow the jury's recommendation. Florida lawmakers are trying to block a court order allowing Terri Schiavo's husband to remove her feeding tube. Michael Schiavo says he will remove the tube from his brain-damaged wife on Friday. The state legislature is considering a bill that would keep doctors from denying food or water to anyone in a persistent vegetative state unless that person has approved such a move.
And New York Yankees slugger Jason Giambi will not have to testify on Thursday at a House hearing on steroids. A congressional official tells CNN Giambi was excused at the request of the Justice Department, which is investigating steroid use in Major League Baseball. Giambi was one of seven current or former players subpoenaed to appear before the committee.
And that's going to do it from the Headline News studio in Atlanta -- Aaron, back to you.
A. BROWN: Erica, thank you.
Back almost 50 years ago at the lunchroom in Alice Smith Elementary School in Hopkins, Minnesota, they served brown stuff over mashed potatoes on Tuesdays. I think that's actually what they called it, brown stuff. It had some relationship to food, distant. Today, kids in school eat better. Getting them to eat well is another matter. They are kids, after all. So, imagine being the chef for the nation's largest school system. No brown stuff allowed.
Here's NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JORGE COLLAZO, NEW YORK CITY SCHOOLS CHEF: I need some half- pans. You got some half-pans?
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jorge Collazo is the executive chef for New York City public schools, the largest school system in the nation. His job will seem to any parent like a form of mission impossible. Make nutritious meals on a budget, $2 on average per lunch, that more than a million kids will eat.
COLLAZO: It's a big challenge. We don't say, eat this. It's healthy for you. That's probably the -- maybe the worst thing you could do. So, we want to make it invisible to them. And just they don't even realize that it's good for them.
NISSEN: Case in point, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich. School cafeteria workers in New York City make thousands of them a day, but make them with whole wheat bread, instead of white.
COLLAZO: We actually phased it in. We were making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or other sandwiches with one slice of white and one of whole wheat. And we just kind of like weaned them off of the white flour that way.
NISSEN: To wean kids off high-fat, high-calorie favorites, school cooks here are frying less, baking more. A substitute for french fries, roasted potatoes. They still make macaroni and cheese, cheese sandwiches, but use low-fat American cheese, low-fat mozzarella. School food here is always low in salt. Cooks use herbs and spices to season food.
COLLAZO: Why do we have to limit sodium? It's not good for you. It's not good for kids. They don't need it. And it's in nearly everything that they find in excessive amounts.
NISSEN: So is sugar. What to do about the collective sweet tooth of 1.1 million students?
COLLAZO: Our fresh food program is extensive. We offer fresh fruit every day.
NISSEN: Offering is one thing. Getting kids to take it is another. New York school students are no less finicky than those anywhere, in fact, have a broader range of particular tastes.
In this one elementary school, for example, students come from more than a dozen ethnic backgrounds, each with its own favorite foods.
COLLAZO: It used to be that there would be one menu that was citywide. So, across the board, it was lasagna day. But that doesn't play well in a lot of communities.
NISSEN: Now the menu is diversified.
COLLAZO: I could make a traditional roast chicken with low- sodium gravy and mashed potatoes, or I could choose to make a pollo guisado, which is a -- kind of a Dominican-style stewed chicken. So they can pick.
NISSEN: Recognizing that students want a choice is key to the New York City schools' approach.
COLLAZO: They're students. They're kids. But they're still consumers.
NISSEN: Kids see ads on TV for wrap sandwiches. So the school food's program here offers tuna salad wraps. Pocket sandwiches are popular. So the schools offer a reduced-fat, part-soy Jamaican beef pocket. To get kids to drink more milk to strengthen their bones and teeth, when they get their teeth, schools offer it in chocolate and strawberry.
COLLAZO: Some of them are flavored milks. But they -- the one thing they have in common is that they are low in fat.
NISSEN: Kids like canned beverages, so cans of juice are available. Kids like snacks in packages, so the cafeteria has packages of apple slices.
COLLAZO: How it's packaged, that really is the difference.
NISSEN: The program is working by almost most measure. Kids are eating more fresh fruit, more solids, although there are no breakthroughs to report on broccoli and cauliflower.
Overall, though, kids are wasting less, eating more, eating better. Better nutrition, studies show, helps concentration, can help learning.
COLLAZO: A well-fed child is a child that is going to do better academically.
NISSEN: Chef Jorge sees the program as part of students' lifelong education.
COLLAZO: We want to teach them good habits. It's our social responsibility. I don't even think of it as a choice to do it. To me, there's no other choice than to do what New York City is doing.
NISSEN: Food for thought.
Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
A. BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world.
And, honestly, we should save the best for last, but we don't. We'll lead with it. You cannot top this headline. This is in "The Times" in London. "Secret System That Allowed Cannibal to Go Free and Kill." Yikes. "A secretive 19th century mental health tribunal system was blamed last night for the release of a psychotic killer" -- I shouldn't smile -- "who ate the brains of one of his victims." That's secret system that allowed cannibal to go free and kill. You'd think this was the Friday tabloids.
"The Examiner in Washington." "FBI: Ring Scheme to Bring Russian Weapons into United States." A big bust went down today. And that's why it is in tomorrow's paper.
"The Washington Times." That was "The Washington Examiner." It's free. This one costs a quarter, still a steal, I'm telling you. There's no better deal in the world than a newspaper, except for cable. "Democrats Threaten Shutdown, Warn GOP Not to Use Nuclear Option." This is all coming to a head, a vote coming on a judge appointed by the president. We'll see how that plays out. Something I like here, but I don't remember what it was.
"Dallas Morning News." That happens. When you do papers at home, it happens. "The Dallas Morning News." This is a weird story. "Three Fatally Shot After Fight at Dallas Bar." It was basically a drive-by shooting. "Witnesses Say Shots Fired From Jaguar Sunroof." Wow. Also, down here, "DeLay in" -- that's Tom DeLay -- "in Ethics Firestorm." "He Says Accusations on Travel Funding Baseless." Well, of course he says that. What, he's going to confess to something? Anyway, they'll sort it out. I'm sure it's fine.
We'll do it this way. "The Chicago Sun-Times," three I like. "Telecom Cowboy Guilty." That's Bernie Ebbers, guilty on all counts, going to the slammer. "Bracelet Rankles Martha's Ankle." Not bad.
Weather tomorrow in Chicago, Chris...
(CHIMES)
A. BROWN: Thank you -- "cheers."
We'll wrap it up in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A. BROWN: "The Power of Purpose," a NEWSNIGHT special. We look at how the Rick Warren book that seemed to be at the center of the end of the Atlanta courthouse case has affected people around the country. That's tomorrow right here.
Have a good night. And good night for all of us.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired March 15, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
Getting back to normal and getting back to business we learn again today are very different things. At the Fulton County Jail in Atlanta, Brian Nichols shackled appeared before a judge for the re- filing of his rape charges against him. Mr. Nichols spoke just briefly, one sentence, then taken back to jail to await multiple murder charges.
Meantime, at the courthouse today a vigil was held, questions asked about mistakes and missed opportunities.
We begin tonight with CNN's Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Deputies armed with weapons, a sophisticated courthouse video system, silent alarms, all safeguards in the Fulton County Courthouse that did not provide safety.
CNN has learned Judge Roland Barnes' secretary pushed a silent alarm button, not once but twice during the siege. A response only came after the judge and his court reporter had been killed.
It's still not known if anyone ever heard the alarm or saw Nichols stalking around the courthouse complex on the video system's 40 cameras. That system also captured Nichols' overpowering a female sheriff's deputy but there's no indication anyone was monitoring that either.
DON CLARK, FMR. FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: This thing is going to be reviewed. I can assure you it's going to be reviewed. Policies and procedures will be looked at.
TUCHMAN: Police were very close to getting Nichols after he escaped but a fateful decision at this parking garage prevented a quick capture. Employees of the garage say they saw Nichols drive a hijacked vehicle through the lot smashing through the entrance gate to escape from police chasing him.
They say the told police to wait in a central location inside the garage where all escape routes could be seen. But the workers tell CNN the officers instead drove through the garage and that Nichols walked out of the unguarded exit with two guns visible in the back of his pants. The man in charge of courthouse security has just been on the job since January.
SHERIFF MYRON FREEMAN, FULTON COUNTY, GEORGIA: When I first took this office, my first priority was the jail and that's where I've been focusing most of my attention. But now we're going to review all the procedures in the office.
TUCHMAN: Hours after Brian Nichols walked out of this garage, leaving police behind, Immigrations and Customs Enforcement Agent David Wilhelm was shot to death in another part of town. Authorities say Brian Nichols was his killer.
Gary Tuchman, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Each of these mistakes or missteps contributed to the disastrous outcome in Atlanta on Friday but not one of them changes the simple fact that the awful chain of events began with a gun.
Once Brian Nichols had Deputy Cynthia Hall's weapon in his hand, there was nothing to stop him from using it. But a new technology, not available yet but possibly available in about two years, could do just that, stop a criminal from shooting a stolen gun.
Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This automatic being fired by Officer Robert O'Hala (ph) is no ordinary gun. It's a smart gun or at least a prototype of one. When it's perfected, this weapon will allow only Office O'Hala to fire it, not a criminal, and certainly not a child.
DONALD SEBASTIAN, SR. VICE PRES., NJ INSTITUTE OF TECH: It really makes the decision while you're pulling the trigger. There is no activation period here. While you grab the gun and you pull the trigger that's when we're making the identity read.
FEYERICK: Donald Sebastian heads research and development at the New Jersey Institute of Technology. Five years ago, state lawmakers asked him to find out if guns could be made safer and smarter.
MICHAEL RECCE, ASSOC. PROF., NJ INSTITUTE OF TECH: The first stage usually is something like this.
FEYERICK: Associate Professor Michael Recce was tapped to find the answer and though he didn't know a lot about guns he did know a lot about human behavior.
RECCE: One of the things that I was struck by is how dynamic behavior, certain types of behavior are so repeatable, like the way you grab a pen or a golf club.
FEYERICK: The professor discovered the same was true of guns. RECCE: We used police officers and students. We have them grab a plastic gun and we look at where their hand went and we saw that repeatedly their hands were always going to the same place.
FEYERICK: So the professor and his team of graduate students placed tiny sensors in the hand grip.
RECCE: As the person grabs the gun their fingers will touch some of these grips, some of these sensors and their pressure measurement will be measured over time.
FEYERICK: Measured and used as a key to unlock and activate the gun in a tenth of a second even by a novice.
I had more control over the gun.
RECCE: Exactly.
FEYERICK (on camera): Not that I'm used to holding a gun but it feels the same. Each time that I fired it, it feels exactly the same.
RECCE: OK.
FEYERICK (voice-over): Not everyone is a fan of the new technology. Chris Cox lobbies for the National Rifle Association.
CHRIS COX, NATIONAL RIFLE ASSOCIATION: This high tech is high risk. It's unsafe. It's unproven and it's unreliable and a less reliable gun is a dumber gun.
SEBASTIAN: The gun itself is not foolproof. The electronics won't be foolproof but we can ensure that we have taken the technology to the level required, that it actually is better than the current reliability of a mechanical gun.
FEYERICK: In the future, a single gun could be programmed so that many shooters can use it.
(on camera): You're telling me that you could actually input the hand sensors of 100 people and the gun would be able to be activated by 100 people as long as they're authorized users?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sure. How many numbers can you put in your cell phone?
BILL MARSHALL, FORMER NJ POLICE OFFICER: It would actually have to be used by the working officer. You have to be able to shoot it left-handed, right-handed and from various positions, which we might encounter in an actual street scene. I want to make sure the gun never goes to the point that it fails for us.
FEYERICK: Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: In a day full of missed steps and lost opportunities the action of one player in the drama, arguably the most important player, stand in stark contrast.
During the seven hours that Ashley Smith says she was held hostage by Brian Nichols the 26-year-old single mother not only kept her presence of mind, she won the trust of her captor. Experts in hostage negotiations say Ms. Smith played it by the book, even if she had no doubt never even seen the book.
Here's CNN's Heidi Collins.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ASHLEY SMITH, FORMER HOSTAGE: I told him that I was supposed to go see my little girl the next morning at ten o'clock and I asked him if I could go see her and he told me no.
HEIDI COLLINS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For former NYPD hostage negotiator Wallace Zeins one thing is certain. Ashley Smith is alive today because of her ability to stay calm, use her head and negotiate like a pro.
WALLACE ZEINS, FMR. NYPD HOSTAGE NEGOTIATOR: She was superb. You know what, if she was a police officer, I would want her on my hostage team. She did a fabulous job of maintaining control of her faculties and his faculties. She controlled him.
COLLINS: We asked Zeins to sit down with us and review the steps Ashley Smith took to make it out alive.
SMITH: My husband died four years ago and I told that if he hurt me my little girl wouldn't have a mommy or a daddy.
COLLINS (on camera): What is she doing there?
ZEINS: She hit a weak spot on him. She told him about what the most important thing is and she spoke in non-threatening words. The one thing in hostage negotiating the longer you talk the better chance you have of getting out of that situation because time is on your side. You're developing a rapport.
COLLINS: She is relating to him.
ZEINS: Absolutely.
COLLINS: Already.
SMITH: I talked to him about my family. I told him about things that had happened in my life. I asked him about his family. I asked him why he did what he did.
COLLINS: She questioned him, is that dangerous?
ZEINS: It's -- you know questioning the hostage is dangerous. You don't want to get into that situation. You want to speak when spoken to when taken by a hostage. You want to be able to be calm. Hostage incidents are long.
COLLINS (voice-over): But at this point, Zeins says, Ashley Smith had already formed a bond with Nichols, who began to trust her.
SMITH: So, we went back to my house and got in the house and he was hungry so I cooked him breakfast.
COLLINS: She knows what kind of a violent man she's dealing with and yet she somehow is able to keep it together well enough to make pancakes for him.
ZEINS: Well, she at that point had him under control. The table is reversed. As he makes that exit from that location he flip-flopped "What should I do?" And he made the choice to surrender through her help.
COLLINS: Heidi Collins, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: More to come tonight, starting with a family business, the kind you don't want anywhere near your family.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOSE: They'll do anything like they won't care about killing anybody.
A. BROWN (voice-over): They are a crime family, fast-growing, deadly and possibly coming to a street near you. Easy to find a member, harder to find one who will talk but we did.
He's not smiling, not yet, but Michael Jackson just might be breathing easy after the star witness against him takes a battering.
(on camera): Is there any other reason the school asked you not to come back other than this reference in the paper you wrote to being supportive of the idea of corporal punishment?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I do not.
A. BROWN (voice-over): When it comes to spanking kids in school is free speech getting smacked around?
And, from the NCAA hardwood to Iraq two extraordinary men and their enduring connection.
COL. BOB BROWN, U.S. ARMY, 1ST BRIGADE, 25TH INFANTRY: I learned a lot of leadership at West Point but nowhere more than on the basketball courts with Coach K.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He may say that I bring out in him something but he brings out more in me because he's right on top of things.
A. BROWN: He's the coach. He's the colonel. And, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
A. BROWN: Erica, thank you. We'll get back to you in about a half hour.
The prosecution in the Michael Jackson case has now fired its best weapon. The jury has heard from the accuser. It wasn't always pretty and he wasn't always consistent but only a fool tries to read the mind of a jury.
Here's CNN's Miguel Marquez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His accuser is off the stand and the self-described King of Pop is feeling pretty good.
LINDA DEUTSCH, ASSOCIATED PRESS: This is the most critical part of the trial. We probably have learned more now from the accuser and his siblings than we are going to learn from any other witness. The rest is filling in the blanks.
MARQUEZ: Jackson's accuser, a 15-year-old boy, told his story over four days. The cross-examination by Jackson lawyer Tom Mesereau was relentless in attacking the boy's character and credibility.
DEUTSCH: It's the kind of cross-examination I think they probably teach in law school.
MARQUEZ: Linda Deutsch has covered famous trials since the 1970s. She says the cross-examination worked because it established a motive for why the boy would lie, his love for the good life at Neverland and his anger at rejection.
DEUTSCH: He wanted to show he loved it so much that when Jackson told the family they couldn't come back he decided he was going to get even and concoct the story of molestation in order to harm Jackson.
MARQUEZ: The teenager testified that Jackson twice masturbated him to ejaculation. But under cross-examination the teen was vague on when the alleged molestations happened.
ANDREW COHEN, LEGAL ANALYST: I think that everything he did hurt his credibility, from the way he answered questions to the way he acted on the stand.
MARQUEZ: The boy admitted that after Jackson cut his ties to his family he told the dean of his school that the pop star never touched him. But on further questioning by the district attorney, the boy said the reason he said that was because he was embarrassed because other kids were calling him "the kid that got raped by Michael Jackson." One analyst says the boy's testimony wasn't enough.
COHEN: I think prosecutors made a calculation over the course of the last couple of days that the less the young man said the better off the prosecution's case would be.
MARQUEZ: The teen also testified that after the Martin Bashir documentary aired on ABC in February, 2003, Jackson conspired to imprison his family at Neverland. But under cross-examination, Jackson's lawyer hammered away at the conspiracy allegation, getting the accuser to admit that his family left whenever they wanted and never complained once.
COHEN: If the conspiracy is weak, everything else is going to be weak too because the conspiracy is the foundation upon which the molestation charges are built.
MARQUEZ: On the stand now is Sergeant Steve Robel (ph) with the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's Office.
(on camera): He's the lead investigator on this case. He's being cross-examined by Michael Jackson's attorney and he's testifying to a time line, a time line of key events the prosecution says happened in this case.
Miguel Marquez CNN, Santa Maria, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: CNN's "Security Watch" tonight goes beyond the headlines. Over the last several weeks, more than 100 alleged members of the MS-13 gang were arrested in raids around the country.
Compared to the Crips or the Bloods or the Mafia for that matter, M13 has yet to make a public name for itself but with 10,000 members it will just ask them, our report tonight from CNN's Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDOETAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the MS-13 welcome wagon. New recruits are violently beaten for 13 seconds by gang members. This is how they treat friends. Their enemies receive much worse.
JOSE: They will do anything like they don't care about killing anybody.
ARENA: He should know. This MS-13 member in his early 20s, who we will call Jose, agreed to be interviewed if his identity could be kept a secret. Seen here flashing gang signals, he's been a member since he was 16 and wants out but says the only way he's leaving the gang is in a casket.
JOSE: It is a family. That is why you have to stay in, never can get out.
ARENA: Jose says he can't even remove the many gang tattoos on his arms and legs.
JOSE: You can get killed for taking off your tattoos. ARENA: It's the type of loyalty once enjoyed by traditional organized crime families and the FBI has decided to fight them the same way.
CHRIS SWECKER, FBI ASST. DIRECTOR: They are an emerging and up and coming gang. They are making efforts to organize themselves on a national scale and even an international scale. We see an opportunity through a coordinated effort to knock them down before they become a force in more cities in the country.
ARENA: Mara Salvatrucha or MS-13 was formed in Los Angeles in the late '80s by immigrants from El Salvador. Today, gang units coast to coast are battling as many as 10,000 members in 33 states according to the Justice Department and the number of MS members increases five- fold if you include other countries. Immigrations and Customs Enforcement agents have also launched a new gang initiative aimed at MS, arrested 103 members in the last month.
MICHAEL GARCIA, ASST. HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: We can not only take them off the streets, detain them but we can deport them from the United States.
ARENA: Still, even after deportation, many make their way back to the United States.
DAMIEN LEVESOUI, LAPD GANG UNIT: The moment you start coming to the park and you start hanging out with other gangsters then it's not OK with me.
ARENA: Los Angeles Police Officers Damien Levesoui and Matthew Ziegler work MS full time as part of a gang unit that patrols the downtown area.
LEVESOUI: MS is unlike any other gang. They are very violent. They're very -- they have a very, very tight lip with their inner workings whereas other gang members do it for the machismo, MS does it for the business oriented.
ARENA: Their so-called business mostly involves drug and weapons trafficking, auto theft and robberies and violently protecting their turf, often marked by graffiti.
LEVESOUI: The gang's abbreviation, MS, from Mara Salvatrucha. They have MS written. You have 13, which signifies they're a southern California street gang. It has the reference to the Mexican Mafia.
ARENA: The LAPD has been dealing with the MS problem the longest and often lends its expertise to other police departments. Cops are using experimental technology to match pictures of suspected MS members with those already on file and California courts have issued injunctions restricting the movements of known gang members.
OFFICER MATTHEW ZIEGLER, LAPD GANG UNIT: It's a court order that prohibits them from doing certain activities, such as hanging out together, being out after ten o'clock, being in the area of alcohol and my partner and I are going out and we're enforcing the gang injunction and it's working.
ARENA: Enforcement, though, is just half the battle. Communities have to convince young people that gangs are not the answer. Jose says since he's been a member, MS has gone after younger recruits, as young as 12.
JOSE: Now, I see a lot of kids, you know, from school, trying to be in MS, trying to be tough because they think they can get any girl, you know. Being in MS gets, what they see is like MS is getting big, you know.
ARENA: And he says this new generation is even more lethal, showing no remorse for spilling innocent blood; for CNN's America Bureau, Kelli Arena in Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Jared Lewis knows MS well. A former California cop, he's now a consultant to police anti-gang units around the country. We talked with him earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Mr. Lewis, how are they different from let's say the Crips and the Bloods?
JARED LEWIS, DIRECTOR, KNOWGANGS.COM: Well, the major difference of Mara Salvatrucha or commonly known as MS-13 is they have the ties from El Salvador. They have ties in Mexico. They have ties throughout South America. And they are currently one of the fastest growing gangs in our nation and they're definitely creating more havoc and more problems throughout our nation than any other gang as a whole right now.
A. BROWN: Are they loosely organized or are they tightly organized? Is there a clear hierarchy and are there middle men and then there are soldiers in the way the Mafia is organized?
LEWIS: Well, it's organized along what they call cliques or individual sets but the thing with them is each one has their own individual leadership, yet they can also turn to the other sets for maybe a place to hide, maybe for some sort of drug transaction or some sort of criminal communication to continue their criminal enterprise.
A. BROWN: Are they difficult to infiltrate? Is it hard to get intelligence on them?
LEWIS: Yes, with MS-13 they are a little bit more difficult because with them they have promoted a higher level of going after people who cooperate with law enforcement authorities.
A. BROWN: Well, the Crips and the Bloods weren't exactly sweeties at that sort of deal. The Mafia isn't sort of a sweetie on that sort of a deal. So, in a sense I guess are we looking at just one more gang on the landscape or are we looking at something far more complicated that will be much more difficult to deal with? LEWIS: MS-13 is one of the only gangs that has very strong ties to another nation, to another country. In El Salvador, MS-13 is by far that country's biggest problem. What translates to our nation is we have these gang members here who are crossing our boundaries into their country. They're going back and forth. They have ties to other nations to get -- to bring in high amounts of drugs, to traffic in weapons, to traffic in human beings.
A. BROWN: Just a final question. These arrests that went down the other day, 130-some people, we're talking about chump change aren't we, I mean compared to the number of total members?
LEWIS: That's correct. That translates to almost less than one percent and there's approximately 10,000 documented MS-13 members within our nation right now. But when you put it into perspective, taking one gang member off the street, you're taking one career criminal off the street and that actually will reflect in a reduction of crime wherever that gang member lives.
But is this arrest or this operation going to stop MS-13, no. They're continuing to grow and they're going to continue to be a problem, a growing problem in our nation like it has been in the many other South American nations that they operate in.
A. BROWN: Mr. Lewis, good to meet you, thanks for your time tonight.
LEWIS: Thank you very much.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Jared Lewis.
In a moment, the lessons of Duke's Coach K and how they're keeping young men and women in the game and healthy on the battlefields of Iraq.
And later, a word or two from Coach R, that would be the rooster, wouldn't it? A good one too tonight, take a break first.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A. BROWN: Another American soldier died in Iraq today, an explosion in Baghdad. Up north, Mosul has also seen its share of violence. A suicide bomber last week killed dozens.
Mosul is where the Army's 1st Brigade of the 25th Infantry is on patrol under the command of a man who attended West Point, a man who learned how to be a leader from a man who was and till is a leader.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN (voice-over): They first met on the plains of West Point, nearly three decades ago, one man at the beginning of a spectacular career in his chosen profession, the other a leader in training for a far different line of work.
B. BROWN: I learned a lot of leadership at West Point but nowhere more than on the basketball court from Coach K and it's really stuck with me for all these years.
A. BROWN: Coach K is Mike Krzyzewski, who not only attended West Point but was its head basketball coach in the mid to late '70s. Now, of course, he's the head man at Duke, famous and wealthy. His teams always it seems among the best in the country. But he remembers long ago, remembers Bob Brown.
KRZYZEWSKI: We were lucky to get Bob. Bob was a caliber of player that West Point doesn't usually get. He could have played in the Big 10 or the ACC and been a good player and we felt that he was one of our best recruits during my five-year period there.
A. BROWN: One game stands out in particular, his star player hitting the winning shot against Fordham in 1979.
B. BROWN: I was sitting there at my locker feeling real good. And he said, hey, let's play some defense now, huh? And, you know, at the time, when you're young, you think, boy, I just hit the game- winning shot. You know, he should be thanking me for that.
KRZYZEWSKI: And so he looked at me, like -- and I said, look, the offense was great. I said, but for you to be a complete player, you're going to have to play better defensively. And what I was just trying to say to him is, OK, I understand you did something well, but you've got more to give. And I knew that would stick with him. And that's good because he did become a better player.
B. BROWN: He was looking ahead and instilling that discipline to improve and be better every day and not just except mediocrity.
A. BROWN: Over the years, they've not only kept in touch, but, as adults, become good friends. Then Bosnia erupted and Coach K. sent the colonel 300 basketballs and Duke T-shirts.
B. BROWN: In the Serb sector, there were huge basketball fans. And so we gave kids the basketballs and shirts on patrols. And they went from not talking to us, the adults, to telling us everything going on.
A. BROWN: For the past six moss, Colonel Brown has been in command of 8,000 Army troops in the 1st Brigade of the 28th Infantry in Mosul in Iraq. One day on patrol, they flew a special American flag and sent it back across the ocean back to Duke.
B. BROWN: I took a picture with the whole crew and the Stryker with the flag and then had a certificate, which really certified it was taken around on a combat patrol. And it talks about how freedom isn't free. And we're just proud to be part of their -- to have them as part of our family.
A. BROWN: The flag and the certificate are now in Coach K.'s office. KRZYZEWSKI: He has a passion for what he does, brings out in me -- he may say that I bring out in him something, but he brings out more in me, because he's right on top of things. And, of course, he's doing things at the highest level.
A. BROWN: They inhabit vastly different worlds, of course, but they remain connected by what they shared long ago and who they've become since.
B. BROWN: It's really stuck with me for all these years. And I'm just very proud to consider him a friend and proud to -- very, very proud to have played for him. He's just a wonderful person.
KRZYZEWSKI: I think about Bob every day. I carry one of their Lancer insignias with me. I have a picture of he and his men. Just, you know, at times, where I feel I'm weak as a leader or unsure or down or saying, you know, what am I doing this for, I just look at that and say, you know, it's like a slap in the face and say, you're lucky. You know, this guy's doing it at the highest level.
And, in some small way, you're a part of it, because he's put you in his heart at some time in his life, and he still has you there. So, use his heart to motivate you right now in what you're doing. Bob is the guy I think about every day and the men and women serving under him.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Still to come tonight, is the question of spanking kids in school so radioactive that simply asking the question can get you in trouble?
A break first. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A. BROWN: Scott McConnell has been studying for his masters in teaching at Le Moyne College in Syracuse, New York. But, recently, the school told him he can't continue his studies there. That decision came after he wrote a paper that, among other things, advocated corporal punishment in schools.
It's fair to say that spanking in the classroom is controversial in this country. In New York, it's against the law. But Mr. McConnell didn't spank anyone. He simply spoke his mind.
We talked to him the other day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Well, let's start with what seems to me the most basic question here. As far as you know, is there any other reason the school asked you not to come back other than this reference in the paper you wrote to being supportive of the idea of corporal punishment? SCOTT MCCONNELL, FORMER LE MOYNE COLLEGE GRADUATE STUDENT: No, I do not. As outlined in my dismissal letter, it was my mismatch of personal beliefs regarding teaching and learning and the Le Moyne College program goals.
A. BROWN: Up to that point, how have your grades been?
MCCONNELL: I have a 3.78 GPA. I have three A-minuses, one A and a B-plus.
A. BROWN: So, your grades are fine.
MCCONNELL: Yes, they are.
A. BROWN: OK.
Did anyone ever say to you, these are core beliefs here at this college and we only want people here who have this set of core beliefs?
MCCONNELL: No, they did not.
A. BROWN: If the policy of anyone who hired you was that, no matter how strongly you believe in corporal punishment, we don't allow it, as an employee of that school district, you'd follow that policy, correct?
MCCONNELL: That is a correct answer.
A. BROWN: OK.
MCCONNELL: I would not break the law.
A. BROWN: OK, or break the rule?
MCCONNELL: Exactly.
A. BROWN: Forget the law for a second. This is -- school districts, depending on the state, might have different policies, and I'm just trying to establish here that you understand that management has the right to set policy and that our job as employees is to execute policy, even if we don't always agree with it, correct?
MCCONNELL: That is a correct answer.
A. BROWN: OK. Final question, are you going to sue them?
MCCONNELL: I am just hoping that Le Moyne will follow their guidelines about academic freedom. I'm keeping my options open. I'm not going to say I'm going to sue them or anything like that. I'm actually trying to...
A. BROWN: Are you trying to work it out with them?
MCCONNELL: I am. I'm in the process of writing an appeal letter. TheFire.org is reviewing that appeal letter. I would like to go back to this school, because I feel like I can add something to Le Moyne. But Le Moyne refuses to let me in there, I will consider other options.
A. BROWN: Scott, good luck to you. We wish you nothing but the best.
MCCONNELL: Thank you.
A. BROWN: Thank you.
MCCONNELL: Thank you.
A. BROWN: Appreciate your time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Well, as you can imagine, the officials at Le Moyne College in Syracuse see it all differently. We also spoke to John Smarrelli, who is the provost at the university.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Scott says that the reason he was asked -- or told -- not to come back, continue his education at the school, is because in a paper he wrote that he was supportive of the idea of corporal punishment. Is that the reason that the school asked him, told him not to come back?
JOHN SMARRELLI, LE MOYNE COLLEGE PROVOST: Mr. McConnell did write this particular paper for a particular course that he enrolled in last semester.
He expressed his views about his teaching philosophy. At that point, we collected this as one piece of evidence. And, in fact, the paper was graded on the merits of the paper itself. Subsequently, however, this paper was part of the portfolio that was evaluated by various professors at Le Moyne College in a very systematic way. And in doing so, we felt it was our responsibility, the responsibility of Le Moyne College, that we could not certify Scott to teach in New York state.
A. BROWN: Beyond the question of corporal punishment, can you tell me what other views are incompatible with the law?
SMARRELLI: New York state requires one to have a multicultural classroom. In Mr. McConnell's case, there was strong evidence that he did not support a multicultural classroom, a second violation of New York state laws.
A. BROWN: I can imagine that people, that many people, whether they agree with corporal punishment or not, are going to get a little uncomfortable at the idea that, in a university, merely holding a belief could get you removed from a program.
SMARRELLI: That's an issue I'd like to clarify. Mr. McConnell was not expelled from Le Moyne College. Mr. McConnell was not admitted to Le Moyne college. I think that difference has got to be made clearly.
A. BROWN: Finally, do you think there's any way, realistically, that you and he, you, the university, and he, can work this out, can negotiate your way through this, so that this decision might be reversed, or are we in that uncomfortable area where lawyers start getting involved?
SMARRELLI: When this case first broke, probably nearly two months ago now, I called Mr. McConnell and asked him, would he like to come to meet with me to present his case? I was told by Mr. McConnell that, under his own legal advice, he did not want to come and see me.
So, I have put the ball in his court.
A. BROWN: OK.
SMARRELLI: And, at this point in time, I will meet with him if he is willing to come and present his case to me.
A. BROWN: We appreciate it. Thank you, sir. Nice to meet you.
SMARRELLI: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Just, on the paper the kid wrote, he got an A.
Still to come tonight, making lunch for a million hungry customers a day, no problem, that, eh?
We'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A. BROWN: A lunch break in a moment. Table for a million, please.
First, today's headlines from Atlanta and CNN's Erica Hill -- Erica.
HILL: Sounds like a tall order, Aaron.
Meantime, in the headlines, Italian troops could begin leaving Iraq as soon as September. Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi says he has begun discussion with U.S. and Iraqi officials about a partial withdrawal. Berlusconi faces widespread public opposition to Italy's presence in Iraq.
Tomorrow, Scott Peterson learns if he will be sentenced to death for killing his wife, Laci, and their unborn son. That was the recommendation of the jury that convicted Peterson. The judge has the option of reducing the sentence, but is expected to follow the jury's recommendation. Florida lawmakers are trying to block a court order allowing Terri Schiavo's husband to remove her feeding tube. Michael Schiavo says he will remove the tube from his brain-damaged wife on Friday. The state legislature is considering a bill that would keep doctors from denying food or water to anyone in a persistent vegetative state unless that person has approved such a move.
And New York Yankees slugger Jason Giambi will not have to testify on Thursday at a House hearing on steroids. A congressional official tells CNN Giambi was excused at the request of the Justice Department, which is investigating steroid use in Major League Baseball. Giambi was one of seven current or former players subpoenaed to appear before the committee.
And that's going to do it from the Headline News studio in Atlanta -- Aaron, back to you.
A. BROWN: Erica, thank you.
Back almost 50 years ago at the lunchroom in Alice Smith Elementary School in Hopkins, Minnesota, they served brown stuff over mashed potatoes on Tuesdays. I think that's actually what they called it, brown stuff. It had some relationship to food, distant. Today, kids in school eat better. Getting them to eat well is another matter. They are kids, after all. So, imagine being the chef for the nation's largest school system. No brown stuff allowed.
Here's NEWSNIGHT's Beth Nissen.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JORGE COLLAZO, NEW YORK CITY SCHOOLS CHEF: I need some half- pans. You got some half-pans?
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jorge Collazo is the executive chef for New York City public schools, the largest school system in the nation. His job will seem to any parent like a form of mission impossible. Make nutritious meals on a budget, $2 on average per lunch, that more than a million kids will eat.
COLLAZO: It's a big challenge. We don't say, eat this. It's healthy for you. That's probably the -- maybe the worst thing you could do. So, we want to make it invisible to them. And just they don't even realize that it's good for them.
NISSEN: Case in point, the peanut butter and jelly sandwich. School cafeteria workers in New York City make thousands of them a day, but make them with whole wheat bread, instead of white.
COLLAZO: We actually phased it in. We were making peanut butter and jelly sandwiches or other sandwiches with one slice of white and one of whole wheat. And we just kind of like weaned them off of the white flour that way.
NISSEN: To wean kids off high-fat, high-calorie favorites, school cooks here are frying less, baking more. A substitute for french fries, roasted potatoes. They still make macaroni and cheese, cheese sandwiches, but use low-fat American cheese, low-fat mozzarella. School food here is always low in salt. Cooks use herbs and spices to season food.
COLLAZO: Why do we have to limit sodium? It's not good for you. It's not good for kids. They don't need it. And it's in nearly everything that they find in excessive amounts.
NISSEN: So is sugar. What to do about the collective sweet tooth of 1.1 million students?
COLLAZO: Our fresh food program is extensive. We offer fresh fruit every day.
NISSEN: Offering is one thing. Getting kids to take it is another. New York school students are no less finicky than those anywhere, in fact, have a broader range of particular tastes.
In this one elementary school, for example, students come from more than a dozen ethnic backgrounds, each with its own favorite foods.
COLLAZO: It used to be that there would be one menu that was citywide. So, across the board, it was lasagna day. But that doesn't play well in a lot of communities.
NISSEN: Now the menu is diversified.
COLLAZO: I could make a traditional roast chicken with low- sodium gravy and mashed potatoes, or I could choose to make a pollo guisado, which is a -- kind of a Dominican-style stewed chicken. So they can pick.
NISSEN: Recognizing that students want a choice is key to the New York City schools' approach.
COLLAZO: They're students. They're kids. But they're still consumers.
NISSEN: Kids see ads on TV for wrap sandwiches. So the school food's program here offers tuna salad wraps. Pocket sandwiches are popular. So the schools offer a reduced-fat, part-soy Jamaican beef pocket. To get kids to drink more milk to strengthen their bones and teeth, when they get their teeth, schools offer it in chocolate and strawberry.
COLLAZO: Some of them are flavored milks. But they -- the one thing they have in common is that they are low in fat.
NISSEN: Kids like canned beverages, so cans of juice are available. Kids like snacks in packages, so the cafeteria has packages of apple slices.
COLLAZO: How it's packaged, that really is the difference.
NISSEN: The program is working by almost most measure. Kids are eating more fresh fruit, more solids, although there are no breakthroughs to report on broccoli and cauliflower.
Overall, though, kids are wasting less, eating more, eating better. Better nutrition, studies show, helps concentration, can help learning.
COLLAZO: A well-fed child is a child that is going to do better academically.
NISSEN: Chef Jorge sees the program as part of students' lifelong education.
COLLAZO: We want to teach them good habits. It's our social responsibility. I don't even think of it as a choice to do it. To me, there's no other choice than to do what New York City is doing.
NISSEN: Food for thought.
Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
A. BROWN: Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(ROOSTER CROWING)
A. BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world.
And, honestly, we should save the best for last, but we don't. We'll lead with it. You cannot top this headline. This is in "The Times" in London. "Secret System That Allowed Cannibal to Go Free and Kill." Yikes. "A secretive 19th century mental health tribunal system was blamed last night for the release of a psychotic killer" -- I shouldn't smile -- "who ate the brains of one of his victims." That's secret system that allowed cannibal to go free and kill. You'd think this was the Friday tabloids.
"The Examiner in Washington." "FBI: Ring Scheme to Bring Russian Weapons into United States." A big bust went down today. And that's why it is in tomorrow's paper.
"The Washington Times." That was "The Washington Examiner." It's free. This one costs a quarter, still a steal, I'm telling you. There's no better deal in the world than a newspaper, except for cable. "Democrats Threaten Shutdown, Warn GOP Not to Use Nuclear Option." This is all coming to a head, a vote coming on a judge appointed by the president. We'll see how that plays out. Something I like here, but I don't remember what it was.
"Dallas Morning News." That happens. When you do papers at home, it happens. "The Dallas Morning News." This is a weird story. "Three Fatally Shot After Fight at Dallas Bar." It was basically a drive-by shooting. "Witnesses Say Shots Fired From Jaguar Sunroof." Wow. Also, down here, "DeLay in" -- that's Tom DeLay -- "in Ethics Firestorm." "He Says Accusations on Travel Funding Baseless." Well, of course he says that. What, he's going to confess to something? Anyway, they'll sort it out. I'm sure it's fine.
We'll do it this way. "The Chicago Sun-Times," three I like. "Telecom Cowboy Guilty." That's Bernie Ebbers, guilty on all counts, going to the slammer. "Bracelet Rankles Martha's Ankle." Not bad.
Weather tomorrow in Chicago, Chris...
(CHIMES)
A. BROWN: Thank you -- "cheers."
We'll wrap it up in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A. BROWN: "The Power of Purpose," a NEWSNIGHT special. We look at how the Rick Warren book that seemed to be at the center of the end of the Atlanta courthouse case has affected people around the country. That's tomorrow right here.
Have a good night. And good night for all of us.
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