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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Terri Schiavo Enters Seventh Day Without Food, Water

Aired March 24, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
As Terri Schiavo enters her seventh day without food and water, what began as a protest outside the hospice is morphing into a full blown vigil, hope fading along with Ms. Schiavo tonight, as legal options for prolonging her life narrow to virtually none.

Late this evening, a federal judge heard arguments for issuing a temporary injunction that would order her feeding tube reinserted. No decision on that yet. The hearing has ended.

But it's been a day of legal setbacks for Ms. Schiavo's parents. The first came in Washington, D.C., the U.S. Supreme Court, as expected, refusing to take up the case.

Then the state Circuit Court judge in Florida, the same judge who has heard the case in the last number of years denied Governor Jeb Bush's request that Ms. Schiavo be taken into state custody. The governor appealed that decision to the Florida State Supreme Court and lost there as well.

Meantime, both sides of Ms. Schiavo's divided family spent the day at her bedside, separate visits, and as long as it's been separate views of course as well. Ms. Schiavo's brother describing her as looking like a concentration camp victim, her brother-in-law seeing something else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just came here from seeing her and the only -- how I can describe this is she's peaceful. She's lying there. Sometimes her mouth is agape and, you know, she's peaceful. She's not writhing in pain. You know, she's really not too different than I saw her, you know, the day before.

I've called to her. I'm inches from her face. She does not communicate. She does not try to communicate. She does not respond. You know, unfortunately there's just nothing there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Terri Schiavo's brother-in-law.

Joining us now Suzanne Vitadamo, Terri Schiavo's sister. She joins us from Florida. Another difficult day, where does the family go now? SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: Well, I'm not really sure. It's kind of minute by minute for us but, you know, we are still hopeful that the District Court that has, you know, adjourned for this evening will rule in our favor and begin to hydrate Terri for the time being.

BROWN: Short of a legal victory, and there's just been this string this week of adverse rulings in the courts, do you believe there is anything left that can be done to change the outcome here?

VITADAMO: Well, you know, I think we're still hopeful maybe that, you know, we want to actually thank the governor of the state of Florida, Governor Bush. He has really shown that he cares about this case and he's done quite a bit for Terri, as you know, and we're still hopeful that whatever is left for him to do that he will go ahead and do what he can. So, you know, like I said it's minute by minute for us now, so we're very prayerful.

BROWN: Suzanne, what is it you think he might do or could do? He can't make up the law, so what is it he could possibly do?

VITADAMO: I don't know. I mean, you know, I'm a lay person, not an attorney. I don't know what powers at this point the governor still holds as the governor, you know, of the state.

What's very troubling is that you have a state judge, a circuit judge I'm sorry that seems to have circumvented the governor of the state, the Congress and the president of the United States and that's very troubling to me.

BROWN: I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understand that exactly. You're troubled by the fact that the judge is interpreting the law?

VITADAMO: No. I'm saying I'm troubled that Judge Greer, the circuit judge, has really ignored the governor, Governor Bush, Congress and the president of the United States by really -- he didn't -- he didn't honor the subpoenas and he did not, you know, as far as the Department of Children and Family Services trying to intervene in the case, he denied their involvement. So, I find that hard to believe that he has the power to do all that.

BROWN: When did you last see your sister and what can you tell us about her condition at this time?

VITADAMO: Well, I was in there about a half hour ago and it's very troubling. It's very disturbing for us to go in there. She looks like she came out of a concentration camp. Her face is beginning to sink in and it's just -- it's very difficult to watch.

BROWN: It must be extraordinarily difficult. How are you parents doing?

VITADAMO: Not well. You know, I can't imagine any parent having to sit back and watch their child starve to death and my mom can't even give her ice chips. It's horrific. I'm a parent and I can't even imagine what my mother and father are going through. BROWN: Would it be any easier, do you think, on the family if all of us, media, everyone in the country who seems to be focused on this, if we all just disappeared and let whatever is going to play out play out privately?

VITADAMO: Well, I mean, you know, in one respect we're very grateful that we've been able to, you know, get Terri's story out and I mean we have so many people that are supporting Terri and we really thank the media for that. So, at this point it's difficult to say. I mean it is a private -- God, the grieving is private. I mean but, you know, it's hard to say.

BROWN: Thank you for your time tonight. As we said to your father last night, none of us can really imagine what it's like to be in your shoes these days. We can only guess and it's not -- it can't possibly be easy. Thanks for joining us.

VITADAMO: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you.

I've said a number of times this week that we see our best role here as to provide as many different voices, as many different views as possible, so here's another from one of the country's leading bioethicists, Dr. Arthur Caplan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. ARTHUR CAPLAN, CENTER FOR BIOETHICS U. OF PENN: The issue, you know, isn't whether we allow life to go on. The issue is can people control their medical care? It isn't a question of killing her or saying, gosh, she's got a terrible life or her quality of life is not worthy of support.

It is that she told her husband, and it was confirmed many times in court that she said this, if I'm in that state, don't keep me that way and that's what we're acting on.

No one is trying to end the lives of the disabled around the country. Nobody is saying if you're in a permanent vegetative state take your feeding tube out. It's in this case where she said to her husband "Don't leave me this way" that you see the removal of the feeding tube.

BROWN: Is there anything about this case you wish you knew that you do not know?

CAPLAN: Well, one of the things that obviously I really wish I knew is whether Terri somehow or other would have said, "Of course I pick my husband. I loved him. I knew him for five years of marriage." There was never any question raised about that relationship.

You wish you could hear a louder voice on her part and ideally I wish she would have filled out a living will or an advance directive. Now, 21-year-olds are not likely to be doing that but I wish that it happened.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We talked with Dr. Caplan for quite a while this afternoon and he'll be our Friday conversation tomorrow night.

Tonight though, a little more of what we explored briefly with Professor Caplan, a question of why not, if you will? Jeff Greenfield, our Senior Analyst, is here. This is national conversation that's going on.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Yes.

BROWN: And at its best it's quite remarkable I think. And one of the questions that gets asked a lot is, look, why not if she's in no pain, if she's not suffering, if she's not present, if she doesn't know, why not just give her to the parents and at least there's a better outcome in this horrible tragedy than might otherwise be?

GREENFIELD: In fact, I think that has disturbed people who usually, some people who usually find themselves on the, if I can put it this way, the right-to-die side of the argument because this is not like the well known cases. It's not like those movies that hit this year, "The Sea Inside of Me" and "Million Dollar Baby."

Professor Caplan gave you one answer the answer that comes out is that the court said we find clear and convincing evidence that this is what she wanted. And there's a furious pushback on the part of the people who are for the parents saying we don't really know that.

That was just one of the reasons why the absence, as you just heard, of that living will creates such a problem. It would have answered that question had there been a clear statement by Terri Schiavo saying "If this is the condition I find myself in, I would not want to live" with one caveat. I mean if there had been a living will and there had been a real dispute about what her condition is it would not have solved it.

BROWN: Right. I was in a gentle argument with a friend today about the long term impact of this. Tell me if you think just as an observer of the politics in the broadest sense that something important has happened or that next week or next month, whenever this tragedy ultimately ends, we'll just be on to something else in every sense, all of us. I don't mean the media.

GREENFIELD: Well, there's no question that will happen to this industry because that's what we do. I changed my mind about this. My original notion was, well, the long term politics it's three years before our next presidential election. You know, we'll move on.

I think particularly for the community that is behind Terri's parents, the culture of life argument that starts with the abortion folks, it moves beyond that, that if Terri Schiavo dies this will galvanize them and it will make them for some time to come make this an absolute test of their support. BROWN: OK. More broadly than that, though, what do you make then of a pretty significant majority of Americans who say whatever their feelings about Ms. Schiavo and what should happen that the Congress and the president and the rest of them need to stay out of what is a family's decision?

GREENFIELD: Yes. Putting aside, again, one of the things about this case is there's now a big argument about whether some of this polling asked the wrong questions. They assumed it was life support and it wasn't.

But what I do think you're hearing, in the same sense you're hearing some people on the "liberal side" saying "I got my doubts," there are plenty of conservatives institutionally saying, you know, the idea of the government stepping into a specific case, passing a law, altering the jurisdiction, that got us bothered a little bit.

And I do think that the fundamental notion, I think in a million, ten million living rooms, you know, for the last week, people have been saying "We got to get clear."

If I might very quickly, you've had angry political voices on both sides impugning the motives of parents and a spouse. But, on the other hand, you had some very reasonable and earnest conversations. And this is one of the few cases where the media have gotten a full court press that it may have been justified.

BROWN: I think so. Thank you, Jeff Greenfield tonight.

Much more ahead on the program, starting with a question of power.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: In essence you can see now who's running this country. By that I mean that the judges are running this country. It's not the people any longer.

BROWN (voice-over): Terri Schiavo's parents lose again in court. What does it say about the rule of law and the power of the nation's judges?

And of other tragedies tonight, as 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford is mourned, another child is remembered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been eleven years and, you know, there's many times where it seems like it was yesterday.

BROWN: And 40 years ago he was a young man marching into history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You went with the flow. It was almost like jazz. There was no written script. You went with the beat.

BROWN: The march that would change his life and so many others.

From New York and around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In Florida with tensions as they are, no one is taking any chances. Outside the courthouse in Tampa where a Federal District Court judge has heard arguments in the Schiavo case, they found a suspicious knapsack. They are obviously concerned about what might be in it. They're looking at it. As we know more, we'll tell you more.

In a moment another family's struggle with life and death decisions that tore them apart.

First, though, we'll take a look at some of the other stories that are making news on this day. Erica Hill joins us again tonight from Atlanta, Erica good evening.

(NEWSBREAK)

BROWN: Erica, thank you.

Terri Schiavo's family is not the first to be torn apart over a decision that is arguably the most difficult any of us will ever have to make. Most of the time, of course, the decision plays out in private and when families disagree, often bitterly over what should be done, that too usually stays within the family but not always. For one family we talked to, the Schiavo case hits close to home, very close.

Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The story of Hugh Finn's controversial death begins on this road outside Louisville where the popular local TV host was in a horrific accident on an icy morning. The wreck left Hugh Finn in a permanently vegetative state and his wife, Michelle, in a terrible spot.

MICHELLE FINN, WIFE: And we had talked about the fact that we would not want, neither one of us would want to live in that type of condition.

FOREMAN: So, you never had any doubt about what his wishes were?

M. FINN: No.

FOREMAN: So, more than three years later she decided to remove his feeding tube at his nursing home in Virginia. His parents challenged the decision in court and they lost.

THOMAS FINN, FATHER: When he was in that hospital, we could touch him. There was hope. Now that he's in the hole there's no hope for him, none whatsoever. FOREMAN: But with the tube removal only hours away, Michelle could not believe what happened next. Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore went to the state courts to try to stop it.

M. FINN: I was just hysterical. I couldn't believe -- it never occurred to me that it would happen. I kept saying how can he do this? How can he do this?

GOV. JIM GILMORE (R), VIRGINIA: Well, I think the public officials have a duty to make sure that those who are disabled those who are vulnerable make sure that they're properly protected. That, I think, is a proper role of an elected official and the law supported that type of intervention at the time.

FOREMAN: The governor lost too. The feeding tube was removed and nine days later Hugh Finn died.

T. FINN: It was a murder because you put him to death.

FOREMAN (on camera): The rift between Michelle Finn and her husband's family has never fully healed, despite efforts on both sides and she points out even her own mother disagreed with her decision.

(voice-over): Michelle understands. She does not apologize.

M. FINN: I felt like I had one more commitment that I had made to him that I needed to fulfill.

FOREMAN: You didn't think you could walk away?

M. FINN: No, absolutely not. I could not walk away from that because I knew...

FOREMAN: Even though the family wanted to say we'll take care of him. Just leave him alone.

M. FINN: Except that that's not what he wanted and that's what I was afraid of was I knew what he wanted and if I did not do it, nobody would and he would not get what he wanted.

FOREMAN: Like the rest of the nation, Michelle Finn is following the saga of Terri Schiavo but, unlike most, it is a road she has traveled.

Tom Foreman CNN, Louisville, Kentucky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: In Florida, meanwhile, the legal case is in the Federal District Court in Tampa. The judge has heard the case. We await his decision. Will it come tonight? We do not know but we are waiting and we'll report it.

Like his brother the president, Jeb Bush the Governor of Florida has tried to use his power to have Terri Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted, his lack of success not sitting well with some. Their message to the governor is straightforward, failure to find a way to intervene equals political peril.

In Tallahassee tonight here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us pray hard, brothers and sisters. Governor Bush is now the only practical hope here for Terri Schiavo.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The governor is in the eye of the storm facing heat from fellow conservatives who want him to find a way, any way, to save Terri Schiavo's life.

RANDALL TERRY, SCHINDLER FAMILY SPOKESMAN: If she dies, there is going to be hell to pay with the pro-life, pro-family Republican people of various legislative levels.

PAT ROBERTSON, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: He doesn't have to let some little piddling circuit court judge run the state of Florida.

HENRY: Protesters streamed in and out of the governor's office and the phones kept ringing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I'm sure the governor will do whatever is legally within his power to do.

HENRY: Bush mulled that question behind closed doors, while activists kept a vigil in his reception area. The governor downplayed expectations saying his powers are limited.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: They are not as expansive as people would want them to be.

HENRY: But conservative activists disagree saying the governor has the power to take custody of Schiavo.

ALAN KEYES, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: It's not a question of kidnap. He merely needs to go in and defend her life.

HENRY: The governor understands the passion but hints he won't take drastic actions.

BUSH: I understand what they're -- they're acting on their heart and I fully appreciate their sentiments and the emotions that go with this. I've consistently said that I can't go beyond what my powers are and I'm not going to do it.

HENRY: The political stakes are high with perhaps the continuation of the Bush dynasty at the White House hanging in the balance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he does what he should do and save Terri Schiavo then, in fact, he'll be a hero. If he doesn't do it, he's going to be a villain with regard to most of the Christian right.

HENRY: For others the stakes hit closer to home. The Wiffy (ph) family drove ten hours from Louisiana to the governor's office. Their 13-year-old foster daughter was abused as an infant by her natural parents. She suffered a traumatic brain injury and relies on a feeding tube.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was really struck by how similar Amanda's condition is to Terri's condition.

HENRY: The Wiffys say they came to Florida to tell the governor that just because you're in a vegetative state it doesn't mean your life should be over.

Ed Henry, CNN, Tallahassee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We were struck by a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) like Pat Robertson in Ed's report just now. "You can't let some piddling judge run the state of Florida," he said.

Nor can the rest of us, as much as we might want sometimes, just make up the law to suit our beliefs and the law, as much as the medicine and far more, in fact, than the politics, is at the heart of this.

Jonathan Turley, a constitutional scholar at George Washington University Law School joins us tonight from there. Jon, it's good to -- I'm sorry, are you there?

JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV. LAW SCHOOL: Yes, I am.

BROWN: OK. I guess in a sense the courts are saying that the Congress did exactly that make up the law.

TURLEY: Well, you know, there is a great desire to view this as what's been called tyranny of the judiciary but it should serve to concentrate the minds of those who are making those accusations that we now have, for example, in the federal system we have 23 federal judges that have ruled and of those 21 ruled against these claims and some of those judges are the most conservative judges in the country.

And the law can't achieve the results that you necessarily want. The law demands consistency and part of the problem that we saw with what Congress did is that members of Congress admitted that they violated rules of federalism to intervene in this case but they said they had to do the right thing but that's a test of principle.

BROWN: Yes.

TURLEY: I mean the test of principle is whether you're willing to live with it even when you don't like how it comes out.

BROWN: A couple of questions that I just think come up a lot. Why is the husband given more authority to make these decisions than the parents who are, as someone noted to me today, blood relatives?

TURLEY: That is a tough issue, Aaron, and the fact is that the parents and the husband both have rights but in any legal system rights are relative. And since the 1970s we've been struggling with these cases, so-called substituted consent cases and trying to deal with who makes the final decision.

And the uniform response of the courts has been it's the next of kin in priority and that is almost always the spouse. It doesn't have to be. You can appoint someone. You can give someone the power of attorney for medical issues. But, if you don't, then it goes along that priority and that's what we have here.

He is the spouse and, you know, no matter what Congress wanted to happen, no matter what they could have done, they could never have done what they wanted to do, which is to change the outcome. The only way to do that would be to change Michael Schiavo's mind because at the end of the day he can stand against the world in making this decision.

BROWN: One of the things, one of the arguments again, I'm not sure this is a fair one by the way to throw your way but I'll do it anyway, is that he has moved on. You know, he's in another relationship. He has these other children. He has moved on and the parents haven't. Should the law consider that?

TURLEY: You know, the law can consider that and, in fact, the law did consider that. That issue was raised in a number of challenges to whether he could indeed make this decision, whether he had a conflict of interest, whether he was disqualified.

And I think that's a legitimate issue to raise. I mean if family members believe that someone has essentially left the marital relationship that they have drifted away from that unique relationship, I think it's relevant. I mean people have been dismissing it. I don't think you can dismiss it.

But the courts did look at these allegations and said, you know, we don't believe that he has severed that relationship or that he's disqualified under the law and most states would follow the same approach.

BROWN: When you hear people say that the governor of Florida should basically just go into that hospice and take this woman, as a man of the law do you just shudder?

TURLEY: Quite frankly I do. I shuddered at what Congress did. You know, the framers were very concerned about what they called tyranny of the majority that part of a democracy, the sort of scourge of any democratic system is terror of the majority that this tyranny can occur because you have the control of the legislature and they tried to prevent that in a number of ways.

Now, the fact is that whenever the majority commits an abuse it's always popular. It's always the majoritarian rule but it's the very scourge of a legal system.

This governor can't march in there and take control over this individual. It has to be done by a rule of law or what are we and what will we do tomorrow? And people need to separate the passions from their commitment to this country. We have a commitment to each other. That's the rule of law. That's how we're defined.

BROWN: Yes. Jon, as I think some people know, read about it, you have gone through this in ways and very recently that most of us have not and for that our condolences particularly and thank you for your time again tonight. Thank you. It's nice to see you.

TURLEY: Thank you.

BROWN: Jonathan Turley.

Ahead on the program more on the importance of putting things down in writing, the nuts and bolts of living wills. We'll take a break first.

This is NEWSNIGHT from CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: As we reported a few moments ago, there's been a bit of a scare tonight in Florida, police discovering a suspicious-looking knapsack outside the federal courthouse in Tampa, where Federal District Court Judge Whittemore is deciding whether to grant a temporary restraining order, temporary injunction in the Schiavo case.

The injunction would permit doctors to reinsert Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube, so she might live until another round of appeals can be launched in her case. No word yet on whether the suspicious knapsack was anything more than that, suspicious. As for the judge's ruling, it's possible it will come down tonight. So, we will wait on that for you and with you.

For all the anguish the Terri Schiavo case has caused her family, it's also given the rest of us this across the country. In our homes and offices, with friends and families, we are talking about this difficult issue. Well, more than just talking about it, in fact. Newspapers are printing links to Web sites, where readers can download living will forms.

The New York State Bar Association, for example, says 24,000 people have downloaded their living will form in just the last 48 hours. That's double the usual number. In some cases, people who have long talked about creating a living will are actually doing it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): It is perhaps the one certain lesson of the whole sad Schiavo affair. Will and Lisa Austen have learned the lesson.

CHRISTOPHER LIKENS, ATTORNEY: Your living will declaration provides that, if you're in a terminal condition, an irreversible end- stage condition or persistent vegetative state, that you would not like to have certain life-prolonging procedures. BROWN: The concept isn't new for them. What is new and what's important for them is that they have gone beyond the talk to put pen to paper.

LISA AUSTEN, LIVING WILL ADVOCATE: And sure enough, we had talked about our living wills, but hadn't executed them, as we did today. The Terri Schiavo case, you can't really get away from it. And we really do want to protect each other from the heartache. And it's a personal decision, I know, but we really want to take matters into our own hands.

BROWN: Attorney Christopher Likens has heard this a lot these last days, heard it a lot because of the Schiavo case, a case that has made so many people in so many places think about the things they would mostly like to avoid.

LIKENS: It's hard to turn on the TV without having a show or some issue come out of the Terri Schiavo case. So, it's definitely been an issue. It's been in the forefront of clients' minds. Just about every client that we have signed documents like this in the past couple of weeks in particular, they have all said the same thing, oh, that poor -- the girl or that poor family and I don't want my family to have to go through that.

BROWN: The Austens are in their late 40s and in good health. He works in philanthropy. She works for a trade show marketing firm from their home near Sarasota. What they did today, she says, they did for others.

L. AUSTEN: I'm one of six children, you know, 10 nieces and nephews. I just don't find it -- there's no reason for them to have to bicker or be in a heated debate over my care.

WILL AUSTEN, LIVING WILL ADVOCATE: I think it gives us peace of mind and assurance. And it's a way of having yet another thing to worry about. It has resolved a matter that's extremely important in terms of our life together and our legacy.

BROWN: Some day, we will know how many people have seen these painful scenes, heard the sorrow and the shouting and made the decision the Austens have made. We will know how many and we will know why.

L. AUSTEN: I think it would tear me apart if I felt that my family were arguing and getting to the point like it has been on national television about my care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: In the meantime, we continue to wait for a decision out of the federal court in Tampa, Florida, a decision that could come at any point tonight.

In a moment, a town New Jersey where 7-year-old Megan Kanka lived and where she was killed by a pedophile, more than a decade later, what happened to one little girl and how it changed a community. And later still tonight, we'll check morning papers.

But we'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: For those of you who may just be joining us, we're still waiting for a decision in the Terri Schiavo hearing that ended earlier tonight in Tampa. A federal court judge there said he will rule in the hours ahead. We're standing by.

The Schindler family, Ms. Schiavo's family, has had no success today in either the state courts or at the U.S. Supreme Court. There aren't many legal options left for them. But they went back to the federal court in Tampa, and we will see what the judge rules, hopefully sometime tonight.

Meanwhile, Jessica Marie Lunsford's family held a private service for her today. She's the 9-year-old girl abducted from her home last month in Florida, her body found Saturday buried just yards from her home, a convicted sex offender charged with capital murder in the case. This case is very similar to that of Megan Kanka, the little girl murdered by a pedophile who also lived nearby. Her death changed Hamilton Township, New Jersey, and, in some respects, changed the country as well.

Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Alina Cho.

Well, obviously we have got a technical problem there. We will try and sort it out. And I'm sorry? OK. We're going to try and see if we can't get it again.

This is the Megan Kanka story. Megan Kanka is the young child over whose death Megan's Law was born. And this is how things are playing out in her family's life and her town in New Jersey these days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Barbara Lee Drive doesn't look much different than it did in 1994. There are still split-level homes, flags on front porches and figurines in front yards. But the neighborhood is different because of one little girl's murder.

MAUREEN KANKA, MOTHER OF MEGAN: It's been 11 years and, you know, there's many times where it seems like it was yesterday.

CHO (on camera): And, in fact, yesterday...

M. KANKA: I cried yesterday, you know, missing my daughter.

CHO (voice-over): July 29, 1994, 7-year-old Megan Kanka was raped and killed by a man who lived across the street from her, a twice convicted sex offender living with two other convicted pedophiles. The case captivated the nation and inspired Megan's Law. (on camera): Could Megan's Law have saved Megan?

M. KANKA: Absolutely. If we had known there were three sex offenders across the street, my daughter would be alive and well today. We had no knowledge. There was nothing that would allow us to have that knowledge.

CHO: A little chilly today.

DARWIN KIEFFER, MERCER COUNTY PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE: Yes, it is.

CHO (voice-over): Eleven years ago, Darwin Kieffer, the lead detective in the Megan Kanka case, had no way of knowing sex offenders were living on Barbara Lee Drive.

KIEFFER: We're going to see if he's there.

CHO: Now he does. Kieffer now works in the Megan's Law unit of the Mercer County Prosecutors Office, going door to door, tracking down sex offenders, following up when they move away.

KIEFFER: Found one a couple of weeks ago moved to Las Vegas without letting us now. We contacted Las Vegas to let them know they have a sex offender from out of town living there. So now they're aware of it.

CHO: Even at the ballpark, where pedophiles often look for victims, there are changes. For two years, the Megan Kanka Foundation has paid for background checks for 1,200 little league coaches in New Jersey. They even get fingerprinted. The program is called Check 'em Out.

MIKE FABIAN, LITTLE LEAGUE COACH: I'll see everybody Thursday at 6:00 here.

CHO: Mike Fabian has been a little league coach for two years.

FABIAN: If you're out donating your time with all these kids and the parents are trusting you, it's a good thing for the parent.

CHO (on camera): How often do you come over here?

M. KANKA: Well, I definitely come over on her birthday.

CHO (voice-over): The most obvious change on Barbara Lee Drive is across the street from the Kanka home. There's a park here now with a pond and a place to play hopscotch, one of Megan's favorite games. The home where Megan was killed used to be here, torn down to make room for the park.

These photos have never been seen publicly until now. Megan would be 18 now and graduating from high school soon. Her family still lives in the same home where Megan grew up. That much has not changed.

RICHARD KANKA, FATHER OF MEGAN: It's a good little community. And we have good people here. And just we had a rotten apple come into the basket. And he's gone now.

CHO: But they remember what happened to Megan.

M. KANKA: I think it made people hold their children a little closer, a little tighter. And I think it was the realization that Megan was just like their kids and that we were just like them.

CHO: Alina Cho, CNN, Hamilton Township, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The day and the night dominated by the Schiavo case. We continue to wait for a decision out of the federal court in Tampa. That could come at any time.

Other stories did make news today. And Erica Hill is in Atlanta with some of them -- Erica.

HILL: Hi, Aaron.

This story perhaps another showing of the power of the people. In the former Soviet republic of Kyrgyzstan, opposition protesters took over the presidential compound and government offices today, forcing the president to flee the country. There are unconfirmed reports he is now in Russia. The opposition and political observers allege corruption and flawed parliamentary elections recently. Kyrgyzstan's parliament has appointed an interim president and prime minister given them until tomorrow to form a new government.

Actor Tom Sizemore will almost spend two years in jail for repeatedly failing drug tests while on probation. He has been on probation for a domestic violence conviction involving his ex- girlfriend and former Hollywood madam Heidi Fleiss. He will remain free while he appeals that conviction.

Scientists on a dig in Montana made a surprising find, soft tissue inside the thigh bone of a Tyrannosaurus Rex fossil. Now, they actually had to break open the massive bone to get it on a helicopter. Inside, they found what looked like blood vessels, bone cells, maybe even blood cells in the 70-million-year-old fossil and possibly some DNA, Aaron, perhaps a little "Jurassic Park."

BROWN: A little bit?

Thank you, Erica, very much.

In a week dominated by one national conversation, a moment now for another, for what arguably is the great national conversation, the national conversation dealing with race; 40 years ago today, hundreds of people, black and white, led by the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., were on the verge of completing their march into the capital of a segregated South.

Here how is how it appeared in still photos not seen for a generation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: We have the right to walk to Montgomery if our feet can get us there.

MILTON HARE, PHOTOGRAPHER: In 1965, we were both in our 20s. We had gone to college together. And we were riding down the highway one day, listening to the coverage about the early Selma marches.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are ordered to disburse. Go home or go to your church.

HARE: We looked at each other and we said, we have to go down there.

PAUL COBB, OWNER, "OAKLAND POST": We carried press credentials from "The Oakland Post" newspaper, which I now own. At the time, Milton was a photographer and I was a writer.

HARE: We were interested in the people along the march. And everybody ignored me, because I was just a kid. I got right in their faces and shot my film and got out of the way. We did a lot of interviewing of people.

And the pictures you will see are people who we had been talking for a half-hour or 15 minutes or an hour. So, the warmth you see in the photographs has a lot to do with Paul's ability to just walk into people's lives and embrace them as people.

KING: We plan to see the greatest witness for freedom ever taken place -- that has ever taken place on the steps of the capitol of any state in the South and this whole march adds drama to this total thrust.

COBB: You went with the flow. It was almost like jazz. There was no written script. You went with the beat. When we were walking along -- and we saw all these people gathered at fences and cheering and singing

HARE: There was a difference in the beginning of the march and the end of the march in how people along the way related to the march. People were clearly intimidated, especially in Selma, smaller town, less urban environment.

But even the last day of the march -- when it started out, the march was fairly small. It had maybe 1,500 people in it. That's not a huge march. But, by the time it got to the mid part of the town, people realized it was going to finish, and no one was going to be shot. They were going to make it to the finish line. And we ended up right in front of the Alabama State Capitol. There was no U.S. flag on the top of that dome that day. And here below, it was this big truck bed. And that was the platform for the speakers.

So, you looked up through Martin Luther King and Abernathy and Ralph Bunch and they were just framed by this huge capitol dome. And they are just sitting there owning the world. There's a photo there when Martin Luther King gets up to speak. His associates very carefully put a Dixie cup on the lectern that he is speaking from.

On this day, Martin Luther King is drinking from Dixie's cup. He owns the South. And Wallace is inside. He thought that Martin Luther King was going to come pound on the door of the Capitol Building and insist on delivering a petition, but they didn't. They just sat in front of that Capitol Building with the news cameras on them shown all over the world. And they just owned the moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world.

The Terri Schiavo case, as it dominates us, dominates the front page. Tough story, actually, for the papers, because stuff happens overnight after their deadline.

"The Times Herald Record" in Upstate New York, just because it's on top. "What Price Life? The Unspoken Issue in the Schiavo Case." Yes, it's just a little uncomfortable to talk about that, isn't it?

"Philadelphia Inquirer." That's in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, for those of you who have wondered. "Parents Won't Give Up. Congress Acted, Then Courts Went Own Way," an analysis piece. "More Court Filings, More Pleas to State." And a picture out of Florida today.

Thought the piece we ran, Ed Henry's piece on the pressure on the governor was fascinating tonight.

"The Examiner in Washington." "Court Holds Firm as Schiavo Debate Rages," pretty straight ahead there.

I like this. Down in the corner, Ed, if you can get it, this is "The Des Moines Register." "The Winners in the Terri Schiavo Case," a cartoon. Just come a -- there we go. I'll help you. And it's blank. Duffy is the cartoonist. That's a very good idea.

The weather tomorrow in Chicago is "sour."

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We're going to wait around a bit and wait for the district court in Florida. We'll see what it does.

Until then, good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com


Aired March 24, 2005 - 22:00   ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone.
As Terri Schiavo enters her seventh day without food and water, what began as a protest outside the hospice is morphing into a full blown vigil, hope fading along with Ms. Schiavo tonight, as legal options for prolonging her life narrow to virtually none.

Late this evening, a federal judge heard arguments for issuing a temporary injunction that would order her feeding tube reinserted. No decision on that yet. The hearing has ended.

But it's been a day of legal setbacks for Ms. Schiavo's parents. The first came in Washington, D.C., the U.S. Supreme Court, as expected, refusing to take up the case.

Then the state Circuit Court judge in Florida, the same judge who has heard the case in the last number of years denied Governor Jeb Bush's request that Ms. Schiavo be taken into state custody. The governor appealed that decision to the Florida State Supreme Court and lost there as well.

Meantime, both sides of Ms. Schiavo's divided family spent the day at her bedside, separate visits, and as long as it's been separate views of course as well. Ms. Schiavo's brother describing her as looking like a concentration camp victim, her brother-in-law seeing something else.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I just came here from seeing her and the only -- how I can describe this is she's peaceful. She's lying there. Sometimes her mouth is agape and, you know, she's peaceful. She's not writhing in pain. You know, she's really not too different than I saw her, you know, the day before.

I've called to her. I'm inches from her face. She does not communicate. She does not try to communicate. She does not respond. You know, unfortunately there's just nothing there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Terri Schiavo's brother-in-law.

Joining us now Suzanne Vitadamo, Terri Schiavo's sister. She joins us from Florida. Another difficult day, where does the family go now? SUZANNE VITADAMO, TERRI SCHIAVO'S SISTER: Well, I'm not really sure. It's kind of minute by minute for us but, you know, we are still hopeful that the District Court that has, you know, adjourned for this evening will rule in our favor and begin to hydrate Terri for the time being.

BROWN: Short of a legal victory, and there's just been this string this week of adverse rulings in the courts, do you believe there is anything left that can be done to change the outcome here?

VITADAMO: Well, you know, I think we're still hopeful maybe that, you know, we want to actually thank the governor of the state of Florida, Governor Bush. He has really shown that he cares about this case and he's done quite a bit for Terri, as you know, and we're still hopeful that whatever is left for him to do that he will go ahead and do what he can. So, you know, like I said it's minute by minute for us now, so we're very prayerful.

BROWN: Suzanne, what is it you think he might do or could do? He can't make up the law, so what is it he could possibly do?

VITADAMO: I don't know. I mean, you know, I'm a lay person, not an attorney. I don't know what powers at this point the governor still holds as the governor, you know, of the state.

What's very troubling is that you have a state judge, a circuit judge I'm sorry that seems to have circumvented the governor of the state, the Congress and the president of the United States and that's very troubling to me.

BROWN: I'm sorry. I'm not sure I understand that exactly. You're troubled by the fact that the judge is interpreting the law?

VITADAMO: No. I'm saying I'm troubled that Judge Greer, the circuit judge, has really ignored the governor, Governor Bush, Congress and the president of the United States by really -- he didn't -- he didn't honor the subpoenas and he did not, you know, as far as the Department of Children and Family Services trying to intervene in the case, he denied their involvement. So, I find that hard to believe that he has the power to do all that.

BROWN: When did you last see your sister and what can you tell us about her condition at this time?

VITADAMO: Well, I was in there about a half hour ago and it's very troubling. It's very disturbing for us to go in there. She looks like she came out of a concentration camp. Her face is beginning to sink in and it's just -- it's very difficult to watch.

BROWN: It must be extraordinarily difficult. How are you parents doing?

VITADAMO: Not well. You know, I can't imagine any parent having to sit back and watch their child starve to death and my mom can't even give her ice chips. It's horrific. I'm a parent and I can't even imagine what my mother and father are going through. BROWN: Would it be any easier, do you think, on the family if all of us, media, everyone in the country who seems to be focused on this, if we all just disappeared and let whatever is going to play out play out privately?

VITADAMO: Well, I mean, you know, in one respect we're very grateful that we've been able to, you know, get Terri's story out and I mean we have so many people that are supporting Terri and we really thank the media for that. So, at this point it's difficult to say. I mean it is a private -- God, the grieving is private. I mean but, you know, it's hard to say.

BROWN: Thank you for your time tonight. As we said to your father last night, none of us can really imagine what it's like to be in your shoes these days. We can only guess and it's not -- it can't possibly be easy. Thanks for joining us.

VITADAMO: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you.

I've said a number of times this week that we see our best role here as to provide as many different voices, as many different views as possible, so here's another from one of the country's leading bioethicists, Dr. Arthur Caplan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. ARTHUR CAPLAN, CENTER FOR BIOETHICS U. OF PENN: The issue, you know, isn't whether we allow life to go on. The issue is can people control their medical care? It isn't a question of killing her or saying, gosh, she's got a terrible life or her quality of life is not worthy of support.

It is that she told her husband, and it was confirmed many times in court that she said this, if I'm in that state, don't keep me that way and that's what we're acting on.

No one is trying to end the lives of the disabled around the country. Nobody is saying if you're in a permanent vegetative state take your feeding tube out. It's in this case where she said to her husband "Don't leave me this way" that you see the removal of the feeding tube.

BROWN: Is there anything about this case you wish you knew that you do not know?

CAPLAN: Well, one of the things that obviously I really wish I knew is whether Terri somehow or other would have said, "Of course I pick my husband. I loved him. I knew him for five years of marriage." There was never any question raised about that relationship.

You wish you could hear a louder voice on her part and ideally I wish she would have filled out a living will or an advance directive. Now, 21-year-olds are not likely to be doing that but I wish that it happened.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We talked with Dr. Caplan for quite a while this afternoon and he'll be our Friday conversation tomorrow night.

Tonight though, a little more of what we explored briefly with Professor Caplan, a question of why not, if you will? Jeff Greenfield, our Senior Analyst, is here. This is national conversation that's going on.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Yes.

BROWN: And at its best it's quite remarkable I think. And one of the questions that gets asked a lot is, look, why not if she's in no pain, if she's not suffering, if she's not present, if she doesn't know, why not just give her to the parents and at least there's a better outcome in this horrible tragedy than might otherwise be?

GREENFIELD: In fact, I think that has disturbed people who usually, some people who usually find themselves on the, if I can put it this way, the right-to-die side of the argument because this is not like the well known cases. It's not like those movies that hit this year, "The Sea Inside of Me" and "Million Dollar Baby."

Professor Caplan gave you one answer the answer that comes out is that the court said we find clear and convincing evidence that this is what she wanted. And there's a furious pushback on the part of the people who are for the parents saying we don't really know that.

That was just one of the reasons why the absence, as you just heard, of that living will creates such a problem. It would have answered that question had there been a clear statement by Terri Schiavo saying "If this is the condition I find myself in, I would not want to live" with one caveat. I mean if there had been a living will and there had been a real dispute about what her condition is it would not have solved it.

BROWN: Right. I was in a gentle argument with a friend today about the long term impact of this. Tell me if you think just as an observer of the politics in the broadest sense that something important has happened or that next week or next month, whenever this tragedy ultimately ends, we'll just be on to something else in every sense, all of us. I don't mean the media.

GREENFIELD: Well, there's no question that will happen to this industry because that's what we do. I changed my mind about this. My original notion was, well, the long term politics it's three years before our next presidential election. You know, we'll move on.

I think particularly for the community that is behind Terri's parents, the culture of life argument that starts with the abortion folks, it moves beyond that, that if Terri Schiavo dies this will galvanize them and it will make them for some time to come make this an absolute test of their support. BROWN: OK. More broadly than that, though, what do you make then of a pretty significant majority of Americans who say whatever their feelings about Ms. Schiavo and what should happen that the Congress and the president and the rest of them need to stay out of what is a family's decision?

GREENFIELD: Yes. Putting aside, again, one of the things about this case is there's now a big argument about whether some of this polling asked the wrong questions. They assumed it was life support and it wasn't.

But what I do think you're hearing, in the same sense you're hearing some people on the "liberal side" saying "I got my doubts," there are plenty of conservatives institutionally saying, you know, the idea of the government stepping into a specific case, passing a law, altering the jurisdiction, that got us bothered a little bit.

And I do think that the fundamental notion, I think in a million, ten million living rooms, you know, for the last week, people have been saying "We got to get clear."

If I might very quickly, you've had angry political voices on both sides impugning the motives of parents and a spouse. But, on the other hand, you had some very reasonable and earnest conversations. And this is one of the few cases where the media have gotten a full court press that it may have been justified.

BROWN: I think so. Thank you, Jeff Greenfield tonight.

Much more ahead on the program, starting with a question of power.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BOB SCHINDLER, TERRI SCHIAVO'S FATHER: In essence you can see now who's running this country. By that I mean that the judges are running this country. It's not the people any longer.

BROWN (voice-over): Terri Schiavo's parents lose again in court. What does it say about the rule of law and the power of the nation's judges?

And of other tragedies tonight, as 9-year-old Jessica Lunsford is mourned, another child is remembered.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been eleven years and, you know, there's many times where it seems like it was yesterday.

BROWN: And 40 years ago he was a young man marching into history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You went with the flow. It was almost like jazz. There was no written script. You went with the beat.

BROWN: The march that would change his life and so many others.

From New York and around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In Florida with tensions as they are, no one is taking any chances. Outside the courthouse in Tampa where a Federal District Court judge has heard arguments in the Schiavo case, they found a suspicious knapsack. They are obviously concerned about what might be in it. They're looking at it. As we know more, we'll tell you more.

In a moment another family's struggle with life and death decisions that tore them apart.

First, though, we'll take a look at some of the other stories that are making news on this day. Erica Hill joins us again tonight from Atlanta, Erica good evening.

(NEWSBREAK)

BROWN: Erica, thank you.

Terri Schiavo's family is not the first to be torn apart over a decision that is arguably the most difficult any of us will ever have to make. Most of the time, of course, the decision plays out in private and when families disagree, often bitterly over what should be done, that too usually stays within the family but not always. For one family we talked to, the Schiavo case hits close to home, very close.

Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The story of Hugh Finn's controversial death begins on this road outside Louisville where the popular local TV host was in a horrific accident on an icy morning. The wreck left Hugh Finn in a permanently vegetative state and his wife, Michelle, in a terrible spot.

MICHELLE FINN, WIFE: And we had talked about the fact that we would not want, neither one of us would want to live in that type of condition.

FOREMAN: So, you never had any doubt about what his wishes were?

M. FINN: No.

FOREMAN: So, more than three years later she decided to remove his feeding tube at his nursing home in Virginia. His parents challenged the decision in court and they lost.

THOMAS FINN, FATHER: When he was in that hospital, we could touch him. There was hope. Now that he's in the hole there's no hope for him, none whatsoever. FOREMAN: But with the tube removal only hours away, Michelle could not believe what happened next. Virginia Governor Jim Gilmore went to the state courts to try to stop it.

M. FINN: I was just hysterical. I couldn't believe -- it never occurred to me that it would happen. I kept saying how can he do this? How can he do this?

GOV. JIM GILMORE (R), VIRGINIA: Well, I think the public officials have a duty to make sure that those who are disabled those who are vulnerable make sure that they're properly protected. That, I think, is a proper role of an elected official and the law supported that type of intervention at the time.

FOREMAN: The governor lost too. The feeding tube was removed and nine days later Hugh Finn died.

T. FINN: It was a murder because you put him to death.

FOREMAN (on camera): The rift between Michelle Finn and her husband's family has never fully healed, despite efforts on both sides and she points out even her own mother disagreed with her decision.

(voice-over): Michelle understands. She does not apologize.

M. FINN: I felt like I had one more commitment that I had made to him that I needed to fulfill.

FOREMAN: You didn't think you could walk away?

M. FINN: No, absolutely not. I could not walk away from that because I knew...

FOREMAN: Even though the family wanted to say we'll take care of him. Just leave him alone.

M. FINN: Except that that's not what he wanted and that's what I was afraid of was I knew what he wanted and if I did not do it, nobody would and he would not get what he wanted.

FOREMAN: Like the rest of the nation, Michelle Finn is following the saga of Terri Schiavo but, unlike most, it is a road she has traveled.

Tom Foreman CNN, Louisville, Kentucky.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: In Florida, meanwhile, the legal case is in the Federal District Court in Tampa. The judge has heard the case. We await his decision. Will it come tonight? We do not know but we are waiting and we'll report it.

Like his brother the president, Jeb Bush the Governor of Florida has tried to use his power to have Terri Schiavo's feeding tube reinserted, his lack of success not sitting well with some. Their message to the governor is straightforward, failure to find a way to intervene equals political peril.

In Tallahassee tonight here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let us pray hard, brothers and sisters. Governor Bush is now the only practical hope here for Terri Schiavo.

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The governor is in the eye of the storm facing heat from fellow conservatives who want him to find a way, any way, to save Terri Schiavo's life.

RANDALL TERRY, SCHINDLER FAMILY SPOKESMAN: If she dies, there is going to be hell to pay with the pro-life, pro-family Republican people of various legislative levels.

PAT ROBERTSON, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: He doesn't have to let some little piddling circuit court judge run the state of Florida.

HENRY: Protesters streamed in and out of the governor's office and the phones kept ringing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But I'm sure the governor will do whatever is legally within his power to do.

HENRY: Bush mulled that question behind closed doors, while activists kept a vigil in his reception area. The governor downplayed expectations saying his powers are limited.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: They are not as expansive as people would want them to be.

HENRY: But conservative activists disagree saying the governor has the power to take custody of Schiavo.

ALAN KEYES, CONSERVATIVE ACTIVIST: It's not a question of kidnap. He merely needs to go in and defend her life.

HENRY: The governor understands the passion but hints he won't take drastic actions.

BUSH: I understand what they're -- they're acting on their heart and I fully appreciate their sentiments and the emotions that go with this. I've consistently said that I can't go beyond what my powers are and I'm not going to do it.

HENRY: The political stakes are high with perhaps the continuation of the Bush dynasty at the White House hanging in the balance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he does what he should do and save Terri Schiavo then, in fact, he'll be a hero. If he doesn't do it, he's going to be a villain with regard to most of the Christian right.

HENRY: For others the stakes hit closer to home. The Wiffy (ph) family drove ten hours from Louisiana to the governor's office. Their 13-year-old foster daughter was abused as an infant by her natural parents. She suffered a traumatic brain injury and relies on a feeding tube.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was really struck by how similar Amanda's condition is to Terri's condition.

HENRY: The Wiffys say they came to Florida to tell the governor that just because you're in a vegetative state it doesn't mean your life should be over.

Ed Henry, CNN, Tallahassee.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: We were struck by a (UNINTELLIGIBLE) like Pat Robertson in Ed's report just now. "You can't let some piddling judge run the state of Florida," he said.

Nor can the rest of us, as much as we might want sometimes, just make up the law to suit our beliefs and the law, as much as the medicine and far more, in fact, than the politics, is at the heart of this.

Jonathan Turley, a constitutional scholar at George Washington University Law School joins us tonight from there. Jon, it's good to -- I'm sorry, are you there?

JONATHAN TURLEY, GEORGE WASHINGTON UNIV. LAW SCHOOL: Yes, I am.

BROWN: OK. I guess in a sense the courts are saying that the Congress did exactly that make up the law.

TURLEY: Well, you know, there is a great desire to view this as what's been called tyranny of the judiciary but it should serve to concentrate the minds of those who are making those accusations that we now have, for example, in the federal system we have 23 federal judges that have ruled and of those 21 ruled against these claims and some of those judges are the most conservative judges in the country.

And the law can't achieve the results that you necessarily want. The law demands consistency and part of the problem that we saw with what Congress did is that members of Congress admitted that they violated rules of federalism to intervene in this case but they said they had to do the right thing but that's a test of principle.

BROWN: Yes.

TURLEY: I mean the test of principle is whether you're willing to live with it even when you don't like how it comes out.

BROWN: A couple of questions that I just think come up a lot. Why is the husband given more authority to make these decisions than the parents who are, as someone noted to me today, blood relatives?

TURLEY: That is a tough issue, Aaron, and the fact is that the parents and the husband both have rights but in any legal system rights are relative. And since the 1970s we've been struggling with these cases, so-called substituted consent cases and trying to deal with who makes the final decision.

And the uniform response of the courts has been it's the next of kin in priority and that is almost always the spouse. It doesn't have to be. You can appoint someone. You can give someone the power of attorney for medical issues. But, if you don't, then it goes along that priority and that's what we have here.

He is the spouse and, you know, no matter what Congress wanted to happen, no matter what they could have done, they could never have done what they wanted to do, which is to change the outcome. The only way to do that would be to change Michael Schiavo's mind because at the end of the day he can stand against the world in making this decision.

BROWN: One of the things, one of the arguments again, I'm not sure this is a fair one by the way to throw your way but I'll do it anyway, is that he has moved on. You know, he's in another relationship. He has these other children. He has moved on and the parents haven't. Should the law consider that?

TURLEY: You know, the law can consider that and, in fact, the law did consider that. That issue was raised in a number of challenges to whether he could indeed make this decision, whether he had a conflict of interest, whether he was disqualified.

And I think that's a legitimate issue to raise. I mean if family members believe that someone has essentially left the marital relationship that they have drifted away from that unique relationship, I think it's relevant. I mean people have been dismissing it. I don't think you can dismiss it.

But the courts did look at these allegations and said, you know, we don't believe that he has severed that relationship or that he's disqualified under the law and most states would follow the same approach.

BROWN: When you hear people say that the governor of Florida should basically just go into that hospice and take this woman, as a man of the law do you just shudder?

TURLEY: Quite frankly I do. I shuddered at what Congress did. You know, the framers were very concerned about what they called tyranny of the majority that part of a democracy, the sort of scourge of any democratic system is terror of the majority that this tyranny can occur because you have the control of the legislature and they tried to prevent that in a number of ways.

Now, the fact is that whenever the majority commits an abuse it's always popular. It's always the majoritarian rule but it's the very scourge of a legal system.

This governor can't march in there and take control over this individual. It has to be done by a rule of law or what are we and what will we do tomorrow? And people need to separate the passions from their commitment to this country. We have a commitment to each other. That's the rule of law. That's how we're defined.

BROWN: Yes. Jon, as I think some people know, read about it, you have gone through this in ways and very recently that most of us have not and for that our condolences particularly and thank you for your time again tonight. Thank you. It's nice to see you.

TURLEY: Thank you.

BROWN: Jonathan Turley.

Ahead on the program more on the importance of putting things down in writing, the nuts and bolts of living wills. We'll take a break first.

This is NEWSNIGHT from CNN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: As we reported a few moments ago, there's been a bit of a scare tonight in Florida, police discovering a suspicious-looking knapsack outside the federal courthouse in Tampa, where Federal District Court Judge Whittemore is deciding whether to grant a temporary restraining order, temporary injunction in the Schiavo case.

The injunction would permit doctors to reinsert Ms. Schiavo's feeding tube, so she might live until another round of appeals can be launched in her case. No word yet on whether the suspicious knapsack was anything more than that, suspicious. As for the judge's ruling, it's possible it will come down tonight. So, we will wait on that for you and with you.

For all the anguish the Terri Schiavo case has caused her family, it's also given the rest of us this across the country. In our homes and offices, with friends and families, we are talking about this difficult issue. Well, more than just talking about it, in fact. Newspapers are printing links to Web sites, where readers can download living will forms.

The New York State Bar Association, for example, says 24,000 people have downloaded their living will form in just the last 48 hours. That's double the usual number. In some cases, people who have long talked about creating a living will are actually doing it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): It is perhaps the one certain lesson of the whole sad Schiavo affair. Will and Lisa Austen have learned the lesson.

CHRISTOPHER LIKENS, ATTORNEY: Your living will declaration provides that, if you're in a terminal condition, an irreversible end- stage condition or persistent vegetative state, that you would not like to have certain life-prolonging procedures. BROWN: The concept isn't new for them. What is new and what's important for them is that they have gone beyond the talk to put pen to paper.

LISA AUSTEN, LIVING WILL ADVOCATE: And sure enough, we had talked about our living wills, but hadn't executed them, as we did today. The Terri Schiavo case, you can't really get away from it. And we really do want to protect each other from the heartache. And it's a personal decision, I know, but we really want to take matters into our own hands.

BROWN: Attorney Christopher Likens has heard this a lot these last days, heard it a lot because of the Schiavo case, a case that has made so many people in so many places think about the things they would mostly like to avoid.

LIKENS: It's hard to turn on the TV without having a show or some issue come out of the Terri Schiavo case. So, it's definitely been an issue. It's been in the forefront of clients' minds. Just about every client that we have signed documents like this in the past couple of weeks in particular, they have all said the same thing, oh, that poor -- the girl or that poor family and I don't want my family to have to go through that.

BROWN: The Austens are in their late 40s and in good health. He works in philanthropy. She works for a trade show marketing firm from their home near Sarasota. What they did today, she says, they did for others.

L. AUSTEN: I'm one of six children, you know, 10 nieces and nephews. I just don't find it -- there's no reason for them to have to bicker or be in a heated debate over my care.

WILL AUSTEN, LIVING WILL ADVOCATE: I think it gives us peace of mind and assurance. And it's a way of having yet another thing to worry about. It has resolved a matter that's extremely important in terms of our life together and our legacy.

BROWN: Some day, we will know how many people have seen these painful scenes, heard the sorrow and the shouting and made the decision the Austens have made. We will know how many and we will know why.

L. AUSTEN: I think it would tear me apart if I felt that my family were arguing and getting to the point like it has been on national television about my care.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: In the meantime, we continue to wait for a decision out of the federal court in Tampa, Florida, a decision that could come at any point tonight.

In a moment, a town New Jersey where 7-year-old Megan Kanka lived and where she was killed by a pedophile, more than a decade later, what happened to one little girl and how it changed a community. And later still tonight, we'll check morning papers.

But we'll take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: For those of you who may just be joining us, we're still waiting for a decision in the Terri Schiavo hearing that ended earlier tonight in Tampa. A federal court judge there said he will rule in the hours ahead. We're standing by.

The Schindler family, Ms. Schiavo's family, has had no success today in either the state courts or at the U.S. Supreme Court. There aren't many legal options left for them. But they went back to the federal court in Tampa, and we will see what the judge rules, hopefully sometime tonight.

Meanwhile, Jessica Marie Lunsford's family held a private service for her today. She's the 9-year-old girl abducted from her home last month in Florida, her body found Saturday buried just yards from her home, a convicted sex offender charged with capital murder in the case. This case is very similar to that of Megan Kanka, the little girl murdered by a pedophile who also lived nearby. Her death changed Hamilton Township, New Jersey, and, in some respects, changed the country as well.

Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Alina Cho.

Well, obviously we have got a technical problem there. We will try and sort it out. And I'm sorry? OK. We're going to try and see if we can't get it again.

This is the Megan Kanka story. Megan Kanka is the young child over whose death Megan's Law was born. And this is how things are playing out in her family's life and her town in New Jersey these days.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Barbara Lee Drive doesn't look much different than it did in 1994. There are still split-level homes, flags on front porches and figurines in front yards. But the neighborhood is different because of one little girl's murder.

MAUREEN KANKA, MOTHER OF MEGAN: It's been 11 years and, you know, there's many times where it seems like it was yesterday.

CHO (on camera): And, in fact, yesterday...

M. KANKA: I cried yesterday, you know, missing my daughter.

CHO (voice-over): July 29, 1994, 7-year-old Megan Kanka was raped and killed by a man who lived across the street from her, a twice convicted sex offender living with two other convicted pedophiles. The case captivated the nation and inspired Megan's Law. (on camera): Could Megan's Law have saved Megan?

M. KANKA: Absolutely. If we had known there were three sex offenders across the street, my daughter would be alive and well today. We had no knowledge. There was nothing that would allow us to have that knowledge.

CHO: A little chilly today.

DARWIN KIEFFER, MERCER COUNTY PROSECUTOR'S OFFICE: Yes, it is.

CHO (voice-over): Eleven years ago, Darwin Kieffer, the lead detective in the Megan Kanka case, had no way of knowing sex offenders were living on Barbara Lee Drive.

KIEFFER: We're going to see if he's there.

CHO: Now he does. Kieffer now works in the Megan's Law unit of the Mercer County Prosecutors Office, going door to door, tracking down sex offenders, following up when they move away.

KIEFFER: Found one a couple of weeks ago moved to Las Vegas without letting us now. We contacted Las Vegas to let them know they have a sex offender from out of town living there. So now they're aware of it.

CHO: Even at the ballpark, where pedophiles often look for victims, there are changes. For two years, the Megan Kanka Foundation has paid for background checks for 1,200 little league coaches in New Jersey. They even get fingerprinted. The program is called Check 'em Out.

MIKE FABIAN, LITTLE LEAGUE COACH: I'll see everybody Thursday at 6:00 here.

CHO: Mike Fabian has been a little league coach for two years.

FABIAN: If you're out donating your time with all these kids and the parents are trusting you, it's a good thing for the parent.

CHO (on camera): How often do you come over here?

M. KANKA: Well, I definitely come over on her birthday.

CHO (voice-over): The most obvious change on Barbara Lee Drive is across the street from the Kanka home. There's a park here now with a pond and a place to play hopscotch, one of Megan's favorite games. The home where Megan was killed used to be here, torn down to make room for the park.

These photos have never been seen publicly until now. Megan would be 18 now and graduating from high school soon. Her family still lives in the same home where Megan grew up. That much has not changed.

RICHARD KANKA, FATHER OF MEGAN: It's a good little community. And we have good people here. And just we had a rotten apple come into the basket. And he's gone now.

CHO: But they remember what happened to Megan.

M. KANKA: I think it made people hold their children a little closer, a little tighter. And I think it was the realization that Megan was just like their kids and that we were just like them.

CHO: Alina Cho, CNN, Hamilton Township, New Jersey.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The day and the night dominated by the Schiavo case. We continue to wait for a decision out of the federal court in Tampa. That could come at any time.

Other stories did make news today. And Erica Hill is in Atlanta with some of them -- Erica.

HILL: Hi, Aaron.

This story perhaps another showing of the power of the people. In the former Soviet republic of Kyrgyzstan, opposition protesters took over the presidential compound and government offices today, forcing the president to flee the country. There are unconfirmed reports he is now in Russia. The opposition and political observers allege corruption and flawed parliamentary elections recently. Kyrgyzstan's parliament has appointed an interim president and prime minister given them until tomorrow to form a new government.

Actor Tom Sizemore will almost spend two years in jail for repeatedly failing drug tests while on probation. He has been on probation for a domestic violence conviction involving his ex- girlfriend and former Hollywood madam Heidi Fleiss. He will remain free while he appeals that conviction.

Scientists on a dig in Montana made a surprising find, soft tissue inside the thigh bone of a Tyrannosaurus Rex fossil. Now, they actually had to break open the massive bone to get it on a helicopter. Inside, they found what looked like blood vessels, bone cells, maybe even blood cells in the 70-million-year-old fossil and possibly some DNA, Aaron, perhaps a little "Jurassic Park."

BROWN: A little bit?

Thank you, Erica, very much.

In a week dominated by one national conversation, a moment now for another, for what arguably is the great national conversation, the national conversation dealing with race; 40 years ago today, hundreds of people, black and white, led by the Reverend Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., were on the verge of completing their march into the capital of a segregated South.

Here how is how it appeared in still photos not seen for a generation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARTIN LUTHER KING JR., CIVIL RIGHTS LEADER: We have the right to walk to Montgomery if our feet can get us there.

MILTON HARE, PHOTOGRAPHER: In 1965, we were both in our 20s. We had gone to college together. And we were riding down the highway one day, listening to the coverage about the early Selma marches.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are ordered to disburse. Go home or go to your church.

HARE: We looked at each other and we said, we have to go down there.

PAUL COBB, OWNER, "OAKLAND POST": We carried press credentials from "The Oakland Post" newspaper, which I now own. At the time, Milton was a photographer and I was a writer.

HARE: We were interested in the people along the march. And everybody ignored me, because I was just a kid. I got right in their faces and shot my film and got out of the way. We did a lot of interviewing of people.

And the pictures you will see are people who we had been talking for a half-hour or 15 minutes or an hour. So, the warmth you see in the photographs has a lot to do with Paul's ability to just walk into people's lives and embrace them as people.

KING: We plan to see the greatest witness for freedom ever taken place -- that has ever taken place on the steps of the capitol of any state in the South and this whole march adds drama to this total thrust.

COBB: You went with the flow. It was almost like jazz. There was no written script. You went with the beat. When we were walking along -- and we saw all these people gathered at fences and cheering and singing

HARE: There was a difference in the beginning of the march and the end of the march in how people along the way related to the march. People were clearly intimidated, especially in Selma, smaller town, less urban environment.

But even the last day of the march -- when it started out, the march was fairly small. It had maybe 1,500 people in it. That's not a huge march. But, by the time it got to the mid part of the town, people realized it was going to finish, and no one was going to be shot. They were going to make it to the finish line. And we ended up right in front of the Alabama State Capitol. There was no U.S. flag on the top of that dome that day. And here below, it was this big truck bed. And that was the platform for the speakers.

So, you looked up through Martin Luther King and Abernathy and Ralph Bunch and they were just framed by this huge capitol dome. And they are just sitting there owning the world. There's a photo there when Martin Luther King gets up to speak. His associates very carefully put a Dixie cup on the lectern that he is speaking from.

On this day, Martin Luther King is drinking from Dixie's cup. He owns the South. And Wallace is inside. He thought that Martin Luther King was going to come pound on the door of the Capitol Building and insist on delivering a petition, but they didn't. They just sat in front of that Capitol Building with the news cameras on them shown all over the world. And they just owned the moment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(ROOSTER CROWING)

BROWN: Okeydoke, time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world.

The Terri Schiavo case, as it dominates us, dominates the front page. Tough story, actually, for the papers, because stuff happens overnight after their deadline.

"The Times Herald Record" in Upstate New York, just because it's on top. "What Price Life? The Unspoken Issue in the Schiavo Case." Yes, it's just a little uncomfortable to talk about that, isn't it?

"Philadelphia Inquirer." That's in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, for those of you who have wondered. "Parents Won't Give Up. Congress Acted, Then Courts Went Own Way," an analysis piece. "More Court Filings, More Pleas to State." And a picture out of Florida today.

Thought the piece we ran, Ed Henry's piece on the pressure on the governor was fascinating tonight.

"The Examiner in Washington." "Court Holds Firm as Schiavo Debate Rages," pretty straight ahead there.

I like this. Down in the corner, Ed, if you can get it, this is "The Des Moines Register." "The Winners in the Terri Schiavo Case," a cartoon. Just come a -- there we go. I'll help you. And it's blank. Duffy is the cartoonist. That's a very good idea.

The weather tomorrow in Chicago is "sour."

We'll wrap it up in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We're going to wait around a bit and wait for the district court in Florida. We'll see what it does.

Until then, good night for all of us.

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