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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
John Paul II's Funeral to Get Under Way Soon
Aired April 07, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone from Rome.
The funeral of Pope John Paul II is now just a few hours away and the story tonight is really a measure of time and of people. John Paul's death five days ago set in motion an elaborate and precisely timed process, one that doesn't bend easily to modern times.
By church law, a pope must be buried no later than six days after his death. When that rule was written, no one could have imagined how many people would descend on the Vatican this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): On this night, the doors to St. Peter's Basilica closed for millions of people who had hoped to walk past the body of Pope John Paul II. Time has run out. The lines were simply too long. Over the last four days, thousands of people had grown to millions.
CARDINAL EDWARD EGAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: There's never been anything like this. I've been in Rome for 23 years of my life and I can say nothing like this has ever happened before.
BROWN: As the day began, patience paid off for some of the mourners who refused to give up. This morning, officials reopened the line they closed off last night giving thousands of pilgrims the chance of a lifetime but by 7:00 tonight the line was shut down for good.
As the line inched through St. Peter's Square, the Vatican released copies of the pope's will and the cardinals met for a fifth time. They told us who would say masses during the nine days of mourning that begin tomorrow.
Cardinal Bernard Law has been given the honor. You'll recall he resigned as Archbishop of Boston during the child sex abuse scandal that engulfed his diocese.
All day throughout the city it was a race against the clock. The funeral of John Paul, now just hours away, more leaders arrived today making their way to St. Peter's Basilica to pay their last respects.
Security is now a huge concern. You can see evidence of it all over the city. As many as five million people are expected to flood Rome tomorrow, hotels overflowing. Many will sleep in tents, some on the ground. Most will watch the funeral of John Paul on giant television screens set up now across the city. And back in St. Peter's Square where the funeral will be held time is running out as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: It's actually quite eerie here tonight in its silence compared to the last four nights here. In just a few hours the square will begin filling with people again, the important and the ordinary alike. The funeral service for Pope John Paul II will be unlike any other in church history from its sheer size to the hymns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): As the sun set behind St. Peter's Basilica, Vatican workers were busy alongside the still huge crowds, sweeping up, arranging chairs for a funeral that will be the biggest in the history of the Catholic Church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we've never seen a funeral like this with the millions of people that are coming to Rome to celebrate this funeral with and to be here to celebrate the life of John Paul II. This is absolutely extraordinary.
BROWN: For those of sufficiently high rank, there will be wooden chairs closest to where the funeral mass will be celebrated. For those of slightly lesser station, the chairs will be plastic and they will be the only ones seated. For the rest of the huge crowd it will be standing room only.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They saw a man who they felt was a holy man, who loved them and really reached beyond the cameras into the crowd, into the people and they've responded and, you know, he came to their countries to visit them. Now they're going to come to Rome to bid him farewell.
BROWN: There will be differences between the last time a papal funeral was held back in 1978 for John Paul I and what will take place in just a few hours. The most obvious, of course, is worldwide television. Beyond that are changes to the mass itself, changed under the direction of John Paul II.
PROF. THOMAS GROOME, BOSTON COLLEGE: It used to be called the Mass of the Dead and at one time was celebrated by the priests in black vestments. Now the Second Vatican Council, one of the more delightful changes that it brought to us was to rename it the Mass of the Resurrection and to have it celebrated in white and the prayers, the songs, the readings are all full of joy, full of hope. They're very much upbeat. There's very little of lament or requiem in it. It's a mass of hope. It's a mass of celebration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here, of course, there will be scores of cardinals celebrating, hundreds of bishops there, and all of these people coming together with, you know, singing songs that were picked by the pope, you know. He was able to write his script, his final script of how his funeral would take place. BROWN: The funeral will conclude a week that has seen wave after wave of attention and publicity, most of it good, for the Catholic Church. Even though the week began with the death of a pope, the ripple effects could be considerable.
GROOME: In a sense, the Catholic Church deserves this moment because certainly the headlines we've had over the last three or four years, at least here in the Boston area, have been anything but positive and promising. So, in a sense it does bring home to people that there's much more to this great church and this wonderful Catholic tradition than stories about pedophile priests.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And as the preparations take place at the site and nearby, another tradition is being followed. The pope's body will be or perhaps already has been transferred to a coffin made of Cypress wood. This coffin is then placed inside a zinc casket, then both are put in a third casket made of some other kind of wood, perhaps it is oak, it might be chestnut and those three will be buried.
The release today of Pope John Paul's will offers all of us a chance to experience very private reflections of a very public man. It contains his hopes and his fears for his church. It contains references to his parents and his siblings. And it also reveals that as his health began to fail, he did what you would expect him to do. He put his future in the hands of God.
Here's our Rome Bureau Chief CNN's Alessio Vinci.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): A will is usually a private matter but in the case of Pope John Paul II, this last testament had the world's media in a frenzy.
The pope began writing this document only months after his election in 1978. The result is a 15-page collection of historical and spiritual reflections spanning his 26-year papacy.
In keeping with tradition no word about whom he would like as his successor and no word about the option of resigning due to his age and frail health. In the year 2000, afflicted by a series of ailments, he wondered when he time would come asking God to summon him when he so wished.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: He's not necessarily talking about his resignation. He is meditating on the fact that by the year 2000 he had done what he understood to be his mission and he was asking God, what is next? What do you want of me next?
VINCI: The first non-Italian pope in more than 450 years, he wondered where he should be buried even at one point considering breaking with church tradition to have his funeral in Poland and not in Rome, a decision he eventually left up to the College of Cardinals. GALLAGHER: We know now that he will be buried in St. Peter's Basilica; however, the pope left it open to the College of Cardinals in conjunction with the Episcopal Conference, the bishops of Poland to make that decision.
VINCI: Not until 19 years after his assassination attempt does he mention his brush with death calling his survival the wish of God and a miracle. The pope has often been credited with helping bring down communism but in his will he thanks providence for the fact that it didn't take a nuclear war to end the Cold War. John Paul left no material possessions behind and asked that his personal records be burned.
GALLAGHER: Well, it's not so unusual that the pope would ask for his documents to be burned. Paul VI asked for them to be burned after his death and in a way it just protects them from being published posthumously and not having been revised. The pope loved to revise over and over his documents, so I think that that's a way to secure that some of his thoughts don't go out without revision.
VINCI: His will thanks a select few by name, including his friend and trusted secretary of 40 years Don Stanislaw, one of the Vatican's most powerful men until the pope died.
He also thanks the former chief rabbi of Rome who welcomed the late pontiff in his synagogue in 1986 making him the first pope ever to enter a Jewish house of worship, just one of many groundbreaking moments in his papacy.
Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Earlier tonight I talked with John Allen, our Vatican analyst and the Rome correspondent for the "National Catholic Reporter." We began by talking about John's impressions of the pope's will.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: I had a chance to read the will carefully today and I was struck by just how strong his sense of providence was. I mean the way he thanks God for the end of the Cold War, for example. I mean some would say that, you know, Reagan's armed build up and Perestroika and so forth had something to do with it.
But, yes, you're right. I mean from a kind of news point of view I think there were probably two things in the will that would jump out at you. One was the evolution in his thinking about being buried in Poland where he started out clearly sort of suggesting that's what was going to happen and then ended up putting that decision in the hands of the College of Cardinals. I spoke with one European cardinal today who said what he thinks happened is that over the years the pope simply became more Roman. And the other point would be precisely the one you make that in the year 2000, the jubilee year, the pope is now 80 and he writes that he sees his end potentially drawing near and wants to take stock of that.
BROWN: I wondered if, not to disagree with any cardinal and never to disagree with you, if over time the pope though clearly the framework of the will it sort of begins and ends in Poland in many respects that he realized he belonged less to the land of his birth and more to the church, if you will, more to this place by the end.
ALLEN: Yes, there was always that tension in John Paul between the local and the universal that is being a son of Poland but also being a shepherd to the universal church.
Now in his mind, of course, that was never a tension. He thought that being rooted in his Polish identity is precisely what allowed him to connect to other people who were rooted in their, you know, their New York Jewish identity or their, you know, Indian Hindu identity.
But there always is a little sort of give and take there and I think at the end of the day he understood that in the end he was the pastor of the universal church and he should as a symbol of that he should remain here.
BROWN: If you were to, and you will I think tomorrow, help guide us through this, what should we look for, particularly those of us who aren't Catholics if we're going to draw some of the meaning and the power from it.
ALLEN: Well, first of all, I think, you know, just almost as an aesthetic level I think the pageantry of this kind of thing it's a very carefully scripted and staged experience intended to guide you to a certain emotional place where the reality of death and the deep meaning of how Christians understand death, that is the entry way to new life can become clear to you.
Further, I think, you know, listen carefully to the Biblical readings. They're very carefully chosen, especially the gospel reading that has to do with Jesus' relationship to Peter and how he understood the office of pope is supposed to work.
Finally, Aaron, I can't help injecting a political note and say there's also a political subtext to this because the guy who is celebrating this mass is Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. He's widely seen to be one of the leading contenders for the papacy. He's going to have a chance to give a homily tomorrow.
Now, obviously a homily is going to be about the life of John Paul II but what he pulls out of that, what he thinks is important would give us some guide to his mind should he end up inheriting the shoes of the fisherman from John Paul.
BROWN: We look forward to it tomorrow and, as I've said to you before, you've been invaluable and a great friend and a great guide through a remarkable week. Thank you. ALLEN: Aaron, it's been a privilege working with you.
BROWN: Thank you buddy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: John Allen.
Coming up in just a bit on the program we'll talk more about the funeral with the editor in "Inside the Vatican."
Right now as we come up on a quarter past the hour, Erica Hill is in Atlanta with some of the other headlines of the day -- Erica, good evening.
(NEWSBREAK)
BROWN: Erica, thank you. We'll see you in about a half hour.
Ahead tonight on the program, I think it's fair to say a road trip like no other.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Prayer may be the road to God but all roads lead to Rome for a group of Franciscan monks on a pilgrimage to say goodbye.
DR. CLAUDIA SPADAZZI, GYNECOLOGIST: I think that people from abroad they have an impression of Rome as a strongly Catholic town and Rome is a town where there are many different realities.
BROWN: Why modern day Romans could be called the prodigal children. They may love their pope but why don't they listen to him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My initial thoughts were, oh my God initially oh my God this guy just doesn't get it. The Catholic Church just doesn't understand.
BROWN: And why a young man cannot understand that one cardinal in particular will play a prominent role at the Vatican in honor of Pope John Paul II.
From Rome and around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: St. Peter's Square tonight. Tomorrow, actually just a few hours from now, about five hours and 45 minutes, the square will be filled with people, kings and presidents and a few ordinary citizens as well as the funeral service for Pope John Paul begins. Our coverage on CNN begins at 3:00 Eastern Time this morning.
For one cardinal today these enormous crowds that have been gathering were both gratifying and worrying at the same time. He worried in a word about faith. He wondered how many of the millions had come more for the man than the message, whether people today practice what the church today is preaching.
It's, of course, a serious concern back at home. It's a serious but different concern here in Europe that story coming up in a moment. First, though people in whom faith and hope and patience spring eternal. It is, after all, their job.
Here's CNN's Jim Bittermann.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the ancient hilltop town of Tarquinia, an hour from Rome, it was not yet dawn. Still, at the Franciscan monastery the 11 monks and novices were already deep in devotion.
Following the footsteps of St. Francis of Assisi they are sworn to a life of prayer, preaching and penance. They have no television, no radio, no newspapers and only rarely do they leave their community. But this day they decided to break their solitude. Their pope was dead and five of the brothers decided to make a pilgrimage to Rome.
"We're not just going to say goodbye to a great man," said 23- year-old Brother Donato. "The pope is our point of reference. He means everything to us."
And so the five crammed into an ancient Fiat with a bad headlight and began their pilgrimage to Rome. They prayed as they drove, stopping only because the Fiat was about to run out of gas.
Finally, at about 10:00 in the morning, they reached the city. The crowds were everywhere. It was noisy and a little confusing. Brother Donato and his band got lost more than once.
When they got to the end of the line of people waiting to see the pope's body it stretched back all the way across the river Tiber. A friendly but optimistic policeman told them the wait would only be about five or six hours. Still, six hours later they had not even crossed the Tiber. "We are enthusiastic" said Brother Donato.
The day wore on and in the river of people the brothers got separated. It was just before sunset when the first of them finally made out St. Peter's dome in the distance.
As Brother Donato had explained, Franciscans are known for their patience. A lot of that was required, especially since the dignitaries had started arriving. And every time one of them paid homage to the pope, the line slowed down a little.
Then, disaster struck. Within a few feet of entering St. Peter's Square the line stopped dead. It was now 2:00 in the morning but the area had to be cleaned. Still, Brother Donato's enthusiasm was undimmed.
"No matter what it takes," he explained, "we Franciscans are not going to miss the chance to bid goodbye to our spiritual leader." And what it took was another four hours. At 5:00 in the morning they finally made it into St. Peter's and passed the pope's body. Nearly 24 hours after their morning mass and after 18 hours of waiting in line, Brother Donato was still enthusiastic.
"It's been a life experience," he said "and definitely worth it," plenty in it for him and the other Franciscans to go back to Tarquinia and reflect upon.
Jim Bittermann, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That is a terrific story. That's great.
The monks were among the millions whatever the final number turns out to be, four, five million, maybe more. All roads leading to Rome, or so it would appear, even it turns out from space.
Though the crowds have now been dispersed throughout the city this is how it looked from orbit earlier today before the doors closed and the square was cleared. Pick your noun, a river, an army, a happening, how about a pilgrimage, all in Rome this week.
It is perhaps a different story for Romans themselves. You hear the phrase cafeteria Catholic a lot back in the United States. No doubt they've got words for it as well in German and French and Italian because here and at home many Catholics take exception to certain teachings of their church. John Paul II didn't create that gap. He did, however, take certain steps that may have widened it here and at home.
Reporting the Rome part of the story CNN's John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Rome's Spanish steps and across the world for that matter, part of this pope's legacy is that while he is beloved his teachings are often ignored. From his earliest days as pontiff, a strict line against contraception, repeated again and again as he traveled to some 129 countries over a quarter century.
POPE JOHN PAUL II: Jesus says "Come to me all you who are weary."
KING: But what is called emergency contraception at this clinic in the Vatican's shadow includes the so-called Morning After pill and abortions, most of them for women who count themselves among Italy's 56 million Roman Catholics.
SPADAZZI: Yes in name but they don't really go to church every Sunday. I mean maybe they are baptized. They go to their First Communion but they don't practice.
KING: Contraception, of course, is a much less emotional subject than abortion. Today's Rome far different than when John Paul II became pope in 1978 and Dr. Spadazzi joined this private practice 15 years ago.
SPADAZZI: I think the people from abroad they have an impression of Rome like a strongly Catholic town and Rome is a town where there are many different realities.
KING (on camera): Perhaps off limits to the church but condoms are an open fact of life across this predominantly Catholic nation and easily available. Here just a short distance from the Vatican and all across Rome, 24 hours a day all it takes is a few Euros.
(voice-over): That so many call themselves Catholics but do not follow Vatican teachings is one of the challenges as the church chooses a new pope and some urge a reconsideration of strict views about contraception that leave the church out of step with so many of its own parishioners. The impact of this debate reaches far beyond the clinics and pharmacies of Rome and other developed countries.
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI, FMR. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The Catholic Church faces some real challenges in the poorer parts of the world and that some of these challenges directly affect dogma, such as for example birth control.
KING: Nearly all of the world's population growth in the next 30 years will be where poverty is most common, in Latin America, Asia and Africa. Sub-Saharan Africa has the world's largest share of people living on less than $1 a day and HIV AIDS is now the region's leading cause of death.
A leading American Catholic acknowledges the disconnect, especially with younger Catholics but says there will be no major shifts on issues like contraception and condom distribution.
CARDINAL THEODORE MCCARRICK, U.S. CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS: But there are some things that we cannot change and this Holy Father had made that so clear. I once said to him, "Holy Father, one of the great things you do is that you do not -- you do not use a trumpet that is uncertain."
KING: In the thousands of young faces lined up to pay tribute, Cardinal McCarrick sees a major slice of this pope's legacy.
MCCARRICK: Hey, we love you and we hear you. We don't always obey. We don't always do what you tell us to do but we hear you. We listen.
KING: Keeping their faith despite major differences part of the next pope's steep challenge.
John King, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Coming up on this special edition of NEWSNIGHT from Rome, a controversy over an American cardinal who will play a key role in the masses ahead for the pope.
And they've been saints and they've been sinners from Peter to John Paul II some of the colorful men who have been pope through time.
From Rome and around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In the ancient city tomorrow, the funeral of Pope John Paul II will be a mix of old and new. John Paul himself spelled out in great detail how the ceremony should be -- should unfold.
For example, he requested that a white silk veil be placed over his face before burial, silver and gold medals, the summary of his life, placed alongside him. During the funeral mass, the coffin containing his body will rest in the front of the altar at St. Peter's Square, a Bible on top of it. Nearby will sit a large candle known as the Easter candle. It's used in all funeral liturgies, represents the risen Christ.
The dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, will lead the mass. He served for 25 year as John Paul's theological adviser. And he will not be about help. About 160 cardinals will participate in the mass, their red vestments representing leadership and royalty in the church.
More than 320 priests distribute communion to the huge crowd expected in the square in just a few hours. After the mass, John Paul's body will be carried up the steps of St. Peter's and, from there, into a crypt where more than 140 other popes are buried. That part of the ceremony will remain private.
We'll talk a little more about the services and the week. We're with Robert Moynihan tonight. He edits, as you know by now, I suspect, the monthly magazine "Inside the Vatican."
It's nice to see you.
You know, you have probably thought about this week as much as anyone. You knew it was coming. What has surprised you, though, about it?
ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Well, it exceeded everything I expected.
The outpouring of love and gratitude to this pope has been extraordinary. I was just on the streets again. I've been wandering the streets late at night. It's 4:30 in the morning here. This is the last morning before John Paul will be buried. So, in a way, we're at the final crossroads of his life. And I ran into a woman from Poland who is waiting out here. And I said, why are you here?
She said, I spent 12 hours walking to pay my last respects. I said, summarize it for me in one word.
BROWN: Yes. MOYNIHAN: Gratitude. I said, gratitude for what? Poland, my country, was not free. This man set my country free. And I came here and was willing to come all the way from Poland. And I knew I had to do it and I wanted to do it. And that's the reason.
BROWN: Is it the -- is it the numbers? Is it the intensity of the feeling? Is it all of that?
MOYNIHAN: Well, it's inexplicable. If you're not here, you really can't understand what's going on. If you walk down in these streets, out from the square, people are lying in sleeping bags. People are lining up.
BROWN: Yes.
MOYNIHAN: And it's like, everyone is quiet, everyone is sad. And yet I talked to some Canadians. They said, it's celebration.
BROWN: Yes.
MOYNIHAN: I said, how can you celebrate at a funeral? See, we're at a crossroads here of emotions, which is impossible to articulate.
BROWN: I said the other day, in a slightly different context, that while television does many things well, conveying the power of the feeling here is actually quite difficult. It's just -- it's one of those unique experiences. And it's happened. And people describe it as best they can, but you do have to be among it.
Do you expect the funeral tomorrow -- the funeral tomorrow will be pretty much as it has always been, in some respects, right? I mean, it's really a very classic funeral mass.
MOYNIHAN: Yes.
Well, I would say, first, you're going to see all the cardinals. And when they go into conclave, you won't see them live anymore. So, as the cameras pan over, you'll see them. This will be an openness. And then you'll see a man celebrating the mass who, with very special qualities, some people regard him as the most intelligent man in the church.
BROWN: This is Cardinal Ratzinger.
MOYNIHAN: Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.
BROWN: German.
MOYNIHAN: German and almost 78 years old, but -- and he's a man I've spoken with many times. And, when he talks, his mind is like a razor. I would say, of all of the cardinals, he may be the most intelligent.
BROWN: Let me delicately ask a couple quick questions. Do you think that, privately, the cardinals are talking about Cardinal A would be a good pope, Cardinal B would be a good pope? Do you think the conversation is at that level?
MOYNIHAN: They may get pretty -- they are at that level, but they're really weighing, are the qualities of the man they're looking for going to be as outstanding as John Paul II's qualities were?
But they're going to be different.
BROWN: Yes.
MOYNIHAN: John Paul II was great for dealing with young people. John Paul II, we love you.
They're going to try to find a cardinal who will have some qualities which are so exceptional, but in his particular way, that we'll say, this is a very special man.
BROWN: It's nice to see you. I hope, tomorrow, you get out of tomorrow, personally and professionally, all that you hope for. It's been nice to have you with us this week. Thank you.
MOYNIHAN: Thank you very much.
BROWN: Thank you.
Just a reminder: The ceremonies get under way here in about 5 1/2 hours, 10:00 a.m. Local time, 4:00 in the morning on the East Coast for the United States. We will, of course, bring it to you as it happens in its entirety from beginning to end. CNN's coverage begins about 3:00 in the morning on the East Coast.
And because it takes place when many of you, most of you, I dare say, will be sleeping, we'll re-air the entire event tomorrow night beginning at 7:00 Eastern time and continuing on through NEWSNIGHT. So, if you do sleep through it, it will be there for you tomorrow night, too.
Still to come on this special edition of NEWSNIGHT, a prominent role here for an American cardinal tainted by the sex abuse scandal has some back home feeling a sense of betrayal.
And, at the end of the program tonight, some final thoughts on the history we've witnessed this week and the challenges that face the church.
We take a break first. From Rome, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Tomorrow's funeral will begin nine more days of mourning, each day marked with a special mass for John Paul II. As we mentioned earlier, the cardinals announced today who will lead those masses. It goes without saying that being chosen for this task is a high honor in the church, an honor some Catholics say should not go to Cardinal Bernard Law, the former archbishop shop of Boston.
Here's CNN's Jason Carroll. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Whenever Gary Bergeron thinks of Cardinal Bernard Law, thoughts of scandal and betrayal come to his mind.
GARY BERGERON, PRIEST ABUSE VICTIM: The feelings are as strong today as they were two years ago.
CARROLL: Bergeron says Law protected priests like Joe Birmingham, who he says sexually abused him when he was a child. Birmingham died before any civil suits could be brought against him. Church documents show Law knowingly transferred to other parishes dozens of priest accused of abuse. Law resigned amid the scandal.
So, Bergeron was surprised when he learned the Vatican had asked Law to preside over the one of the memorial masses for Pope John Paul II.
BERGERON: My initial thoughts were, oh, my God, initially, oh, my God, this guy doesn't get it. The Catholic Church just doesn't understand.
CARROLL: Bergeron says he thought, like many abuse victims, Law would stay out of public sight, as he's done for the past two years or so since his resignation. But, this past weekend, Law reappeared on "This Week With George Stephanopoulos." He made no mention of his role in the pope's mass and he did not want to talk about the abuse scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THIS WEEK")
CARDINAL BERNARD LAW, ARCHPRIEST, ST. MARY MAJOR BASILICA: I don't know that this is a time to be reflecting on that issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: We asked the U.S. Conference of Bishops and the Boston Archdiocese to talk to us about Law's role in the pope's mass. Only the archdiocese responded in the form of a short e-mail, saying it would not comment.
(voice-over): Theologians say Law was chosen to lead Monday's mass because he's archpriest of a Vatican basilica, a post the pope assigned to him after his resignation.
CARROLL: Mitchell Garabedian, the attorney for many of the priest abuse victims, says that sends the wrong message.
MITCHELL GARABEDIAN, ATTORNEY: I don't mean to sound harsh, but I believe the Vatican is saying, the Catholic Church is going to do what it's going to do. The victims really don't matter. And if you don't like it, that's too bad.
CARROLL: Bergeron say his message to the Vatican is simple: Law's two years of seclusion wasn't enough. BERGERON: If anyone thinks that Cardinal Law has suffered enough, I invite them to sit down and have a conversation with a survivor, who understands what suffering is.
CARROLL: Bergeron tried to sit down with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican, but was turned away. He may try again, hoping a new pope will hear him.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Just ahead on this special edition of NEWSNIGHT, 264 men have held the job over the last 2,000 years. Some were pious, others political, all part of history.
We'll take a look as we continue this special edition of NEWSNIGHT from Rome.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In just a moment, Jeff Greenfield on the long and varied history of the papacy.
Right now, coming up on a quarter to the hour, a look at some of the other stories that made news today, Erica Hill again in Atlanta -- Erica.
HILL: Hello again to you, Aaron.
Iraq's new president is vowing to help create a democratic government that will represent the nation's diverse population. Kurdish leader Jalal Talabani took the oath of office today, as did his two vice presidents. The three have nominated a Shiite leader for prime minister. Talabani says he wants to bring insurgents into the new government by offering amnesty.
A sheriff's report is providing more details about last month's deadly shootings at an Atlanta courthouse. Brian Nichols is accused of killing a judge, a court reporter and a sheriff's deputy and then killing a federal agent while he was on the run. Portions of the report have just been made public. It says Nichols was able to enter the judge's chambers because the door was unlocked and the buzzer entry system was not on.
The painkiller Bextra has been taken off the market. Drugmaker Pfizer suspended sales at the request of the FDA. Now, in addition to possible risk of heart attack and stroke, government regulators cite a risk of life-threatening skin reactions. The FDA also wants to Celebrex and Vioxx to carry stronger heart risk warnings.
And that is the latest from Headline News at this hour -- Aaron, back to you.
BROWN: Erica, thank you. In this city, history is literally every where you turn. Legions once set foot from here to conquer the world. Crusades were launched, conspiracies hatched. Popes were murdered, new popes named. History, in short, has not always been gentle or simple.
Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Even in the sunset of his reign, bent and frail, John Paul II carried with him the power of an office unlike any other, an office that stretches back through 264 men and 2,000 years of history, back to an apostle to whom Jesus said, thou art Peter and upon this rock, I will build my church.
(on camera): From that day to this, popes have grappled with the competing poles of the spiritual and temporal worlds. And while the church proclaims the pope the vicar of Christ, history demonstrates that their reigns have encompassed the best and the worst of the human condition.
(voice-over): Through most of the papacy, the pontiff held enormous political and military power.
When Leo III crowned Charlemagne Christmas Day 800 with the golden diadem of the emperor of Rome, it marked the beginning of the 1,000-year reign of the holy Roman Empire. Popes Innocent III and John XXII launched crusades in Spain and France, as well in the Arab lands.
But other popes have had only their spiritual power to confront temporal rulers. In 452, as Attila the Hun was sweeping through Italy, Pope Leo I met him face to face alone and unarmed. Whatever words he spoke, Attila turned back. Others struggles were less successful. In 1309, political struggles led the papacy out of Rome to Avignon, France, where it remained for some 70 years.
In the 16th century, Henry VIII, outraged over the pope's refusal to let him marry, established the Church of England. And in the 1870s, after Italy was unified, the new rulers responded to the pope's hostility by seizing the papal states, shrinking the pope's temporal rule to the few square miles that is now Vatican City.
In protest, several popes thereafter never left that small turf of land during their entire reigns.
(on camera): And the papacy has hardly been free of human imperfection. For every Gregory I, who championed the poor and shunned all trappings of wealth, there were centuries of popes who accumulated great wealth, who sold official posts, even sold indulgences, assuring swift passage out of purgatory for a price.
In modern times, popes have displayed neither great personal immorality, nor great temporal power. Instead, their power and their reputations have derived from their words and from their ability and their willingness to persuade. (voice-over): Historians still debate whether Pius XI helped save many Jews from the Nazi terror or muted his voice to preserve the Vatican's position.
John XXIII, who reigned for only five years until his death in 1963, is honored by many non-Catholic as the pope who reached out beyond the church to those of other faiths.
And John Paul II's legacy is yet to be written by history. Is he another pope who brought the church into the modern world or a pope who committed himself to defending its traditions on women in the priesthood, on celibacy, on contraception and abortion?
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Some final thoughts about this week in Rome in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: This is our last full broadcast from here. Tomorrow's program will be a re-airing of the funeral mass. So, tonight, a quick final thought or two on the week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): It has been quite remarkable, reporting his death on Saturday, seeing the faces that told the story of the night better than any words could.
The week was a chance to remember John Paul not simply as religious leader, but, as one person said to us this week, as rock star, a player on the world stage for a quarter of a century, through five presidents, from Carter to Reagan, to Bush, to Clinton, to Bush again. In that time, communism fell, Muslim extremism rose. P.C.s went from extravagance to commonplace, cell phones from an idea to virtual necessity; 25 years ago, we still bought encyclopedia. Today, we use the Internet.
The week also provided a chance to look at the challenges facing the Catholic Church, which is growing in the underdeveloped world and struggling in the developed. It's not just the scandals. There are too few American priests and, as we reported last night, one convent has one new novice this year, which is a 100 percent increase over the year before.
The church faces real and complicated issues. That's not criticism. It's fact, birth control, celibacy, marriage for priests, all part of a wide pattern of dissatisfaction in some quarters and none easy for the church to solve and remain true to itself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Which brings us back to what brought us here in the first place, the death of John Paul.
He was a traditionalist on such matters. To him, core values didn't change because times changed. And therein lies the challenge for his church. Can its new leader bring home a flock that is especially willing to challenge orthodoxy and ignore teachings it disagrees with? Can it bring them home in a modern world without losing its ancient soul?
We'll wrap it up from Rome in a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: That's it for now in Rome, as we leave St. Peter's for the night.
Hope you'll join us tomorrow, starting at 7:00 p.m. Eastern time. You'll be able to see the entire funeral for Pope John Paul II, if you don't catch it the first time coming up in just a few hours.
We turn now to a recap of the day, an extraordinary day again, in which thousands of pilgrims raced against time to reach the basilica here to say their personal goodbyes for the pope.
We'll see you tomorrow. Good night.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired April 7, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again everyone from Rome.
The funeral of Pope John Paul II is now just a few hours away and the story tonight is really a measure of time and of people. John Paul's death five days ago set in motion an elaborate and precisely timed process, one that doesn't bend easily to modern times.
By church law, a pope must be buried no later than six days after his death. When that rule was written, no one could have imagined how many people would descend on the Vatican this week.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): On this night, the doors to St. Peter's Basilica closed for millions of people who had hoped to walk past the body of Pope John Paul II. Time has run out. The lines were simply too long. Over the last four days, thousands of people had grown to millions.
CARDINAL EDWARD EGAN, ARCHBISHOP OF NEW YORK: There's never been anything like this. I've been in Rome for 23 years of my life and I can say nothing like this has ever happened before.
BROWN: As the day began, patience paid off for some of the mourners who refused to give up. This morning, officials reopened the line they closed off last night giving thousands of pilgrims the chance of a lifetime but by 7:00 tonight the line was shut down for good.
As the line inched through St. Peter's Square, the Vatican released copies of the pope's will and the cardinals met for a fifth time. They told us who would say masses during the nine days of mourning that begin tomorrow.
Cardinal Bernard Law has been given the honor. You'll recall he resigned as Archbishop of Boston during the child sex abuse scandal that engulfed his diocese.
All day throughout the city it was a race against the clock. The funeral of John Paul, now just hours away, more leaders arrived today making their way to St. Peter's Basilica to pay their last respects.
Security is now a huge concern. You can see evidence of it all over the city. As many as five million people are expected to flood Rome tomorrow, hotels overflowing. Many will sleep in tents, some on the ground. Most will watch the funeral of John Paul on giant television screens set up now across the city. And back in St. Peter's Square where the funeral will be held time is running out as well.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: It's actually quite eerie here tonight in its silence compared to the last four nights here. In just a few hours the square will begin filling with people again, the important and the ordinary alike. The funeral service for Pope John Paul II will be unlike any other in church history from its sheer size to the hymns.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): As the sun set behind St. Peter's Basilica, Vatican workers were busy alongside the still huge crowds, sweeping up, arranging chairs for a funeral that will be the biggest in the history of the Catholic Church.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we've never seen a funeral like this with the millions of people that are coming to Rome to celebrate this funeral with and to be here to celebrate the life of John Paul II. This is absolutely extraordinary.
BROWN: For those of sufficiently high rank, there will be wooden chairs closest to where the funeral mass will be celebrated. For those of slightly lesser station, the chairs will be plastic and they will be the only ones seated. For the rest of the huge crowd it will be standing room only.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They saw a man who they felt was a holy man, who loved them and really reached beyond the cameras into the crowd, into the people and they've responded and, you know, he came to their countries to visit them. Now they're going to come to Rome to bid him farewell.
BROWN: There will be differences between the last time a papal funeral was held back in 1978 for John Paul I and what will take place in just a few hours. The most obvious, of course, is worldwide television. Beyond that are changes to the mass itself, changed under the direction of John Paul II.
PROF. THOMAS GROOME, BOSTON COLLEGE: It used to be called the Mass of the Dead and at one time was celebrated by the priests in black vestments. Now the Second Vatican Council, one of the more delightful changes that it brought to us was to rename it the Mass of the Resurrection and to have it celebrated in white and the prayers, the songs, the readings are all full of joy, full of hope. They're very much upbeat. There's very little of lament or requiem in it. It's a mass of hope. It's a mass of celebration.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here, of course, there will be scores of cardinals celebrating, hundreds of bishops there, and all of these people coming together with, you know, singing songs that were picked by the pope, you know. He was able to write his script, his final script of how his funeral would take place. BROWN: The funeral will conclude a week that has seen wave after wave of attention and publicity, most of it good, for the Catholic Church. Even though the week began with the death of a pope, the ripple effects could be considerable.
GROOME: In a sense, the Catholic Church deserves this moment because certainly the headlines we've had over the last three or four years, at least here in the Boston area, have been anything but positive and promising. So, in a sense it does bring home to people that there's much more to this great church and this wonderful Catholic tradition than stories about pedophile priests.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And as the preparations take place at the site and nearby, another tradition is being followed. The pope's body will be or perhaps already has been transferred to a coffin made of Cypress wood. This coffin is then placed inside a zinc casket, then both are put in a third casket made of some other kind of wood, perhaps it is oak, it might be chestnut and those three will be buried.
The release today of Pope John Paul's will offers all of us a chance to experience very private reflections of a very public man. It contains his hopes and his fears for his church. It contains references to his parents and his siblings. And it also reveals that as his health began to fail, he did what you would expect him to do. He put his future in the hands of God.
Here's our Rome Bureau Chief CNN's Alessio Vinci.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALESSIO VINCI, CNN ROME BUREAU CHIEF (voice-over): A will is usually a private matter but in the case of Pope John Paul II, this last testament had the world's media in a frenzy.
The pope began writing this document only months after his election in 1978. The result is a 15-page collection of historical and spiritual reflections spanning his 26-year papacy.
In keeping with tradition no word about whom he would like as his successor and no word about the option of resigning due to his age and frail health. In the year 2000, afflicted by a series of ailments, he wondered when he time would come asking God to summon him when he so wished.
DELIA GALLAGHER, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: He's not necessarily talking about his resignation. He is meditating on the fact that by the year 2000 he had done what he understood to be his mission and he was asking God, what is next? What do you want of me next?
VINCI: The first non-Italian pope in more than 450 years, he wondered where he should be buried even at one point considering breaking with church tradition to have his funeral in Poland and not in Rome, a decision he eventually left up to the College of Cardinals. GALLAGHER: We know now that he will be buried in St. Peter's Basilica; however, the pope left it open to the College of Cardinals in conjunction with the Episcopal Conference, the bishops of Poland to make that decision.
VINCI: Not until 19 years after his assassination attempt does he mention his brush with death calling his survival the wish of God and a miracle. The pope has often been credited with helping bring down communism but in his will he thanks providence for the fact that it didn't take a nuclear war to end the Cold War. John Paul left no material possessions behind and asked that his personal records be burned.
GALLAGHER: Well, it's not so unusual that the pope would ask for his documents to be burned. Paul VI asked for them to be burned after his death and in a way it just protects them from being published posthumously and not having been revised. The pope loved to revise over and over his documents, so I think that that's a way to secure that some of his thoughts don't go out without revision.
VINCI: His will thanks a select few by name, including his friend and trusted secretary of 40 years Don Stanislaw, one of the Vatican's most powerful men until the pope died.
He also thanks the former chief rabbi of Rome who welcomed the late pontiff in his synagogue in 1986 making him the first pope ever to enter a Jewish house of worship, just one of many groundbreaking moments in his papacy.
Alessio Vinci, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Earlier tonight I talked with John Allen, our Vatican analyst and the Rome correspondent for the "National Catholic Reporter." We began by talking about John's impressions of the pope's will.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN ALLEN, CNN VATICAN ANALYST: I had a chance to read the will carefully today and I was struck by just how strong his sense of providence was. I mean the way he thanks God for the end of the Cold War, for example. I mean some would say that, you know, Reagan's armed build up and Perestroika and so forth had something to do with it.
But, yes, you're right. I mean from a kind of news point of view I think there were probably two things in the will that would jump out at you. One was the evolution in his thinking about being buried in Poland where he started out clearly sort of suggesting that's what was going to happen and then ended up putting that decision in the hands of the College of Cardinals. I spoke with one European cardinal today who said what he thinks happened is that over the years the pope simply became more Roman. And the other point would be precisely the one you make that in the year 2000, the jubilee year, the pope is now 80 and he writes that he sees his end potentially drawing near and wants to take stock of that.
BROWN: I wondered if, not to disagree with any cardinal and never to disagree with you, if over time the pope though clearly the framework of the will it sort of begins and ends in Poland in many respects that he realized he belonged less to the land of his birth and more to the church, if you will, more to this place by the end.
ALLEN: Yes, there was always that tension in John Paul between the local and the universal that is being a son of Poland but also being a shepherd to the universal church.
Now in his mind, of course, that was never a tension. He thought that being rooted in his Polish identity is precisely what allowed him to connect to other people who were rooted in their, you know, their New York Jewish identity or their, you know, Indian Hindu identity.
But there always is a little sort of give and take there and I think at the end of the day he understood that in the end he was the pastor of the universal church and he should as a symbol of that he should remain here.
BROWN: If you were to, and you will I think tomorrow, help guide us through this, what should we look for, particularly those of us who aren't Catholics if we're going to draw some of the meaning and the power from it.
ALLEN: Well, first of all, I think, you know, just almost as an aesthetic level I think the pageantry of this kind of thing it's a very carefully scripted and staged experience intended to guide you to a certain emotional place where the reality of death and the deep meaning of how Christians understand death, that is the entry way to new life can become clear to you.
Further, I think, you know, listen carefully to the Biblical readings. They're very carefully chosen, especially the gospel reading that has to do with Jesus' relationship to Peter and how he understood the office of pope is supposed to work.
Finally, Aaron, I can't help injecting a political note and say there's also a political subtext to this because the guy who is celebrating this mass is Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger. He's widely seen to be one of the leading contenders for the papacy. He's going to have a chance to give a homily tomorrow.
Now, obviously a homily is going to be about the life of John Paul II but what he pulls out of that, what he thinks is important would give us some guide to his mind should he end up inheriting the shoes of the fisherman from John Paul.
BROWN: We look forward to it tomorrow and, as I've said to you before, you've been invaluable and a great friend and a great guide through a remarkable week. Thank you. ALLEN: Aaron, it's been a privilege working with you.
BROWN: Thank you buddy.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: John Allen.
Coming up in just a bit on the program we'll talk more about the funeral with the editor in "Inside the Vatican."
Right now as we come up on a quarter past the hour, Erica Hill is in Atlanta with some of the other headlines of the day -- Erica, good evening.
(NEWSBREAK)
BROWN: Erica, thank you. We'll see you in about a half hour.
Ahead tonight on the program, I think it's fair to say a road trip like no other.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Prayer may be the road to God but all roads lead to Rome for a group of Franciscan monks on a pilgrimage to say goodbye.
DR. CLAUDIA SPADAZZI, GYNECOLOGIST: I think that people from abroad they have an impression of Rome as a strongly Catholic town and Rome is a town where there are many different realities.
BROWN: Why modern day Romans could be called the prodigal children. They may love their pope but why don't they listen to him?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My initial thoughts were, oh my God initially oh my God this guy just doesn't get it. The Catholic Church just doesn't understand.
BROWN: And why a young man cannot understand that one cardinal in particular will play a prominent role at the Vatican in honor of Pope John Paul II.
From Rome and around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: St. Peter's Square tonight. Tomorrow, actually just a few hours from now, about five hours and 45 minutes, the square will be filled with people, kings and presidents and a few ordinary citizens as well as the funeral service for Pope John Paul begins. Our coverage on CNN begins at 3:00 Eastern Time this morning.
For one cardinal today these enormous crowds that have been gathering were both gratifying and worrying at the same time. He worried in a word about faith. He wondered how many of the millions had come more for the man than the message, whether people today practice what the church today is preaching.
It's, of course, a serious concern back at home. It's a serious but different concern here in Europe that story coming up in a moment. First, though people in whom faith and hope and patience spring eternal. It is, after all, their job.
Here's CNN's Jim Bittermann.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM BITTERMANN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the ancient hilltop town of Tarquinia, an hour from Rome, it was not yet dawn. Still, at the Franciscan monastery the 11 monks and novices were already deep in devotion.
Following the footsteps of St. Francis of Assisi they are sworn to a life of prayer, preaching and penance. They have no television, no radio, no newspapers and only rarely do they leave their community. But this day they decided to break their solitude. Their pope was dead and five of the brothers decided to make a pilgrimage to Rome.
"We're not just going to say goodbye to a great man," said 23- year-old Brother Donato. "The pope is our point of reference. He means everything to us."
And so the five crammed into an ancient Fiat with a bad headlight and began their pilgrimage to Rome. They prayed as they drove, stopping only because the Fiat was about to run out of gas.
Finally, at about 10:00 in the morning, they reached the city. The crowds were everywhere. It was noisy and a little confusing. Brother Donato and his band got lost more than once.
When they got to the end of the line of people waiting to see the pope's body it stretched back all the way across the river Tiber. A friendly but optimistic policeman told them the wait would only be about five or six hours. Still, six hours later they had not even crossed the Tiber. "We are enthusiastic" said Brother Donato.
The day wore on and in the river of people the brothers got separated. It was just before sunset when the first of them finally made out St. Peter's dome in the distance.
As Brother Donato had explained, Franciscans are known for their patience. A lot of that was required, especially since the dignitaries had started arriving. And every time one of them paid homage to the pope, the line slowed down a little.
Then, disaster struck. Within a few feet of entering St. Peter's Square the line stopped dead. It was now 2:00 in the morning but the area had to be cleaned. Still, Brother Donato's enthusiasm was undimmed.
"No matter what it takes," he explained, "we Franciscans are not going to miss the chance to bid goodbye to our spiritual leader." And what it took was another four hours. At 5:00 in the morning they finally made it into St. Peter's and passed the pope's body. Nearly 24 hours after their morning mass and after 18 hours of waiting in line, Brother Donato was still enthusiastic.
"It's been a life experience," he said "and definitely worth it," plenty in it for him and the other Franciscans to go back to Tarquinia and reflect upon.
Jim Bittermann, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: That is a terrific story. That's great.
The monks were among the millions whatever the final number turns out to be, four, five million, maybe more. All roads leading to Rome, or so it would appear, even it turns out from space.
Though the crowds have now been dispersed throughout the city this is how it looked from orbit earlier today before the doors closed and the square was cleared. Pick your noun, a river, an army, a happening, how about a pilgrimage, all in Rome this week.
It is perhaps a different story for Romans themselves. You hear the phrase cafeteria Catholic a lot back in the United States. No doubt they've got words for it as well in German and French and Italian because here and at home many Catholics take exception to certain teachings of their church. John Paul II didn't create that gap. He did, however, take certain steps that may have widened it here and at home.
Reporting the Rome part of the story CNN's John King.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN SR. WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At Rome's Spanish steps and across the world for that matter, part of this pope's legacy is that while he is beloved his teachings are often ignored. From his earliest days as pontiff, a strict line against contraception, repeated again and again as he traveled to some 129 countries over a quarter century.
POPE JOHN PAUL II: Jesus says "Come to me all you who are weary."
KING: But what is called emergency contraception at this clinic in the Vatican's shadow includes the so-called Morning After pill and abortions, most of them for women who count themselves among Italy's 56 million Roman Catholics.
SPADAZZI: Yes in name but they don't really go to church every Sunday. I mean maybe they are baptized. They go to their First Communion but they don't practice.
KING: Contraception, of course, is a much less emotional subject than abortion. Today's Rome far different than when John Paul II became pope in 1978 and Dr. Spadazzi joined this private practice 15 years ago.
SPADAZZI: I think the people from abroad they have an impression of Rome like a strongly Catholic town and Rome is a town where there are many different realities.
KING (on camera): Perhaps off limits to the church but condoms are an open fact of life across this predominantly Catholic nation and easily available. Here just a short distance from the Vatican and all across Rome, 24 hours a day all it takes is a few Euros.
(voice-over): That so many call themselves Catholics but do not follow Vatican teachings is one of the challenges as the church chooses a new pope and some urge a reconsideration of strict views about contraception that leave the church out of step with so many of its own parishioners. The impact of this debate reaches far beyond the clinics and pharmacies of Rome and other developed countries.
ZBIGNIEW BRZEZINSKI, FMR. NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: The Catholic Church faces some real challenges in the poorer parts of the world and that some of these challenges directly affect dogma, such as for example birth control.
KING: Nearly all of the world's population growth in the next 30 years will be where poverty is most common, in Latin America, Asia and Africa. Sub-Saharan Africa has the world's largest share of people living on less than $1 a day and HIV AIDS is now the region's leading cause of death.
A leading American Catholic acknowledges the disconnect, especially with younger Catholics but says there will be no major shifts on issues like contraception and condom distribution.
CARDINAL THEODORE MCCARRICK, U.S. CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS: But there are some things that we cannot change and this Holy Father had made that so clear. I once said to him, "Holy Father, one of the great things you do is that you do not -- you do not use a trumpet that is uncertain."
KING: In the thousands of young faces lined up to pay tribute, Cardinal McCarrick sees a major slice of this pope's legacy.
MCCARRICK: Hey, we love you and we hear you. We don't always obey. We don't always do what you tell us to do but we hear you. We listen.
KING: Keeping their faith despite major differences part of the next pope's steep challenge.
John King, CNN, Rome.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Coming up on this special edition of NEWSNIGHT from Rome, a controversy over an American cardinal who will play a key role in the masses ahead for the pope.
And they've been saints and they've been sinners from Peter to John Paul II some of the colorful men who have been pope through time.
From Rome and around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: In the ancient city tomorrow, the funeral of Pope John Paul II will be a mix of old and new. John Paul himself spelled out in great detail how the ceremony should be -- should unfold.
For example, he requested that a white silk veil be placed over his face before burial, silver and gold medals, the summary of his life, placed alongside him. During the funeral mass, the coffin containing his body will rest in the front of the altar at St. Peter's Square, a Bible on top of it. Nearby will sit a large candle known as the Easter candle. It's used in all funeral liturgies, represents the risen Christ.
The dean of the College of Cardinals, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, will lead the mass. He served for 25 year as John Paul's theological adviser. And he will not be about help. About 160 cardinals will participate in the mass, their red vestments representing leadership and royalty in the church.
More than 320 priests distribute communion to the huge crowd expected in the square in just a few hours. After the mass, John Paul's body will be carried up the steps of St. Peter's and, from there, into a crypt where more than 140 other popes are buried. That part of the ceremony will remain private.
We'll talk a little more about the services and the week. We're with Robert Moynihan tonight. He edits, as you know by now, I suspect, the monthly magazine "Inside the Vatican."
It's nice to see you.
You know, you have probably thought about this week as much as anyone. You knew it was coming. What has surprised you, though, about it?
ROBERT MOYNIHAN, EDITOR, "INSIDE THE VATICAN": Well, it exceeded everything I expected.
The outpouring of love and gratitude to this pope has been extraordinary. I was just on the streets again. I've been wandering the streets late at night. It's 4:30 in the morning here. This is the last morning before John Paul will be buried. So, in a way, we're at the final crossroads of his life. And I ran into a woman from Poland who is waiting out here. And I said, why are you here?
She said, I spent 12 hours walking to pay my last respects. I said, summarize it for me in one word.
BROWN: Yes. MOYNIHAN: Gratitude. I said, gratitude for what? Poland, my country, was not free. This man set my country free. And I came here and was willing to come all the way from Poland. And I knew I had to do it and I wanted to do it. And that's the reason.
BROWN: Is it the -- is it the numbers? Is it the intensity of the feeling? Is it all of that?
MOYNIHAN: Well, it's inexplicable. If you're not here, you really can't understand what's going on. If you walk down in these streets, out from the square, people are lying in sleeping bags. People are lining up.
BROWN: Yes.
MOYNIHAN: And it's like, everyone is quiet, everyone is sad. And yet I talked to some Canadians. They said, it's celebration.
BROWN: Yes.
MOYNIHAN: I said, how can you celebrate at a funeral? See, we're at a crossroads here of emotions, which is impossible to articulate.
BROWN: I said the other day, in a slightly different context, that while television does many things well, conveying the power of the feeling here is actually quite difficult. It's just -- it's one of those unique experiences. And it's happened. And people describe it as best they can, but you do have to be among it.
Do you expect the funeral tomorrow -- the funeral tomorrow will be pretty much as it has always been, in some respects, right? I mean, it's really a very classic funeral mass.
MOYNIHAN: Yes.
Well, I would say, first, you're going to see all the cardinals. And when they go into conclave, you won't see them live anymore. So, as the cameras pan over, you'll see them. This will be an openness. And then you'll see a man celebrating the mass who, with very special qualities, some people regard him as the most intelligent man in the church.
BROWN: This is Cardinal Ratzinger.
MOYNIHAN: Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger.
BROWN: German.
MOYNIHAN: German and almost 78 years old, but -- and he's a man I've spoken with many times. And, when he talks, his mind is like a razor. I would say, of all of the cardinals, he may be the most intelligent.
BROWN: Let me delicately ask a couple quick questions. Do you think that, privately, the cardinals are talking about Cardinal A would be a good pope, Cardinal B would be a good pope? Do you think the conversation is at that level?
MOYNIHAN: They may get pretty -- they are at that level, but they're really weighing, are the qualities of the man they're looking for going to be as outstanding as John Paul II's qualities were?
But they're going to be different.
BROWN: Yes.
MOYNIHAN: John Paul II was great for dealing with young people. John Paul II, we love you.
They're going to try to find a cardinal who will have some qualities which are so exceptional, but in his particular way, that we'll say, this is a very special man.
BROWN: It's nice to see you. I hope, tomorrow, you get out of tomorrow, personally and professionally, all that you hope for. It's been nice to have you with us this week. Thank you.
MOYNIHAN: Thank you very much.
BROWN: Thank you.
Just a reminder: The ceremonies get under way here in about 5 1/2 hours, 10:00 a.m. Local time, 4:00 in the morning on the East Coast for the United States. We will, of course, bring it to you as it happens in its entirety from beginning to end. CNN's coverage begins about 3:00 in the morning on the East Coast.
And because it takes place when many of you, most of you, I dare say, will be sleeping, we'll re-air the entire event tomorrow night beginning at 7:00 Eastern time and continuing on through NEWSNIGHT. So, if you do sleep through it, it will be there for you tomorrow night, too.
Still to come on this special edition of NEWSNIGHT, a prominent role here for an American cardinal tainted by the sex abuse scandal has some back home feeling a sense of betrayal.
And, at the end of the program tonight, some final thoughts on the history we've witnessed this week and the challenges that face the church.
We take a break first. From Rome, this is NEWSNIGHT.
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BROWN: Tomorrow's funeral will begin nine more days of mourning, each day marked with a special mass for John Paul II. As we mentioned earlier, the cardinals announced today who will lead those masses. It goes without saying that being chosen for this task is a high honor in the church, an honor some Catholics say should not go to Cardinal Bernard Law, the former archbishop shop of Boston.
Here's CNN's Jason Carroll. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Whenever Gary Bergeron thinks of Cardinal Bernard Law, thoughts of scandal and betrayal come to his mind.
GARY BERGERON, PRIEST ABUSE VICTIM: The feelings are as strong today as they were two years ago.
CARROLL: Bergeron says Law protected priests like Joe Birmingham, who he says sexually abused him when he was a child. Birmingham died before any civil suits could be brought against him. Church documents show Law knowingly transferred to other parishes dozens of priest accused of abuse. Law resigned amid the scandal.
So, Bergeron was surprised when he learned the Vatican had asked Law to preside over the one of the memorial masses for Pope John Paul II.
BERGERON: My initial thoughts were, oh, my God, initially, oh, my God, this guy doesn't get it. The Catholic Church just doesn't understand.
CARROLL: Bergeron says he thought, like many abuse victims, Law would stay out of public sight, as he's done for the past two years or so since his resignation. But, this past weekend, Law reappeared on "This Week With George Stephanopoulos." He made no mention of his role in the pope's mass and he did not want to talk about the abuse scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THIS WEEK")
CARDINAL BERNARD LAW, ARCHPRIEST, ST. MARY MAJOR BASILICA: I don't know that this is a time to be reflecting on that issue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CARROLL: We asked the U.S. Conference of Bishops and the Boston Archdiocese to talk to us about Law's role in the pope's mass. Only the archdiocese responded in the form of a short e-mail, saying it would not comment.
(voice-over): Theologians say Law was chosen to lead Monday's mass because he's archpriest of a Vatican basilica, a post the pope assigned to him after his resignation.
CARROLL: Mitchell Garabedian, the attorney for many of the priest abuse victims, says that sends the wrong message.
MITCHELL GARABEDIAN, ATTORNEY: I don't mean to sound harsh, but I believe the Vatican is saying, the Catholic Church is going to do what it's going to do. The victims really don't matter. And if you don't like it, that's too bad.
CARROLL: Bergeron say his message to the Vatican is simple: Law's two years of seclusion wasn't enough. BERGERON: If anyone thinks that Cardinal Law has suffered enough, I invite them to sit down and have a conversation with a survivor, who understands what suffering is.
CARROLL: Bergeron tried to sit down with Pope John Paul II at the Vatican, but was turned away. He may try again, hoping a new pope will hear him.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Boston.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Just ahead on this special edition of NEWSNIGHT, 264 men have held the job over the last 2,000 years. Some were pious, others political, all part of history.
We'll take a look as we continue this special edition of NEWSNIGHT from Rome.
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BROWN: In just a moment, Jeff Greenfield on the long and varied history of the papacy.
Right now, coming up on a quarter to the hour, a look at some of the other stories that made news today, Erica Hill again in Atlanta -- Erica.
HILL: Hello again to you, Aaron.
Iraq's new president is vowing to help create a democratic government that will represent the nation's diverse population. Kurdish leader Jalal Talabani took the oath of office today, as did his two vice presidents. The three have nominated a Shiite leader for prime minister. Talabani says he wants to bring insurgents into the new government by offering amnesty.
A sheriff's report is providing more details about last month's deadly shootings at an Atlanta courthouse. Brian Nichols is accused of killing a judge, a court reporter and a sheriff's deputy and then killing a federal agent while he was on the run. Portions of the report have just been made public. It says Nichols was able to enter the judge's chambers because the door was unlocked and the buzzer entry system was not on.
The painkiller Bextra has been taken off the market. Drugmaker Pfizer suspended sales at the request of the FDA. Now, in addition to possible risk of heart attack and stroke, government regulators cite a risk of life-threatening skin reactions. The FDA also wants to Celebrex and Vioxx to carry stronger heart risk warnings.
And that is the latest from Headline News at this hour -- Aaron, back to you.
BROWN: Erica, thank you. In this city, history is literally every where you turn. Legions once set foot from here to conquer the world. Crusades were launched, conspiracies hatched. Popes were murdered, new popes named. History, in short, has not always been gentle or simple.
Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.
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JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST: Even in the sunset of his reign, bent and frail, John Paul II carried with him the power of an office unlike any other, an office that stretches back through 264 men and 2,000 years of history, back to an apostle to whom Jesus said, thou art Peter and upon this rock, I will build my church.
(on camera): From that day to this, popes have grappled with the competing poles of the spiritual and temporal worlds. And while the church proclaims the pope the vicar of Christ, history demonstrates that their reigns have encompassed the best and the worst of the human condition.
(voice-over): Through most of the papacy, the pontiff held enormous political and military power.
When Leo III crowned Charlemagne Christmas Day 800 with the golden diadem of the emperor of Rome, it marked the beginning of the 1,000-year reign of the holy Roman Empire. Popes Innocent III and John XXII launched crusades in Spain and France, as well in the Arab lands.
But other popes have had only their spiritual power to confront temporal rulers. In 452, as Attila the Hun was sweeping through Italy, Pope Leo I met him face to face alone and unarmed. Whatever words he spoke, Attila turned back. Others struggles were less successful. In 1309, political struggles led the papacy out of Rome to Avignon, France, where it remained for some 70 years.
In the 16th century, Henry VIII, outraged over the pope's refusal to let him marry, established the Church of England. And in the 1870s, after Italy was unified, the new rulers responded to the pope's hostility by seizing the papal states, shrinking the pope's temporal rule to the few square miles that is now Vatican City.
In protest, several popes thereafter never left that small turf of land during their entire reigns.
(on camera): And the papacy has hardly been free of human imperfection. For every Gregory I, who championed the poor and shunned all trappings of wealth, there were centuries of popes who accumulated great wealth, who sold official posts, even sold indulgences, assuring swift passage out of purgatory for a price.
In modern times, popes have displayed neither great personal immorality, nor great temporal power. Instead, their power and their reputations have derived from their words and from their ability and their willingness to persuade. (voice-over): Historians still debate whether Pius XI helped save many Jews from the Nazi terror or muted his voice to preserve the Vatican's position.
John XXIII, who reigned for only five years until his death in 1963, is honored by many non-Catholic as the pope who reached out beyond the church to those of other faiths.
And John Paul II's legacy is yet to be written by history. Is he another pope who brought the church into the modern world or a pope who committed himself to defending its traditions on women in the priesthood, on celibacy, on contraception and abortion?
Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.
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BROWN: Some final thoughts about this week in Rome in just a moment.
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BROWN: This is our last full broadcast from here. Tomorrow's program will be a re-airing of the funeral mass. So, tonight, a quick final thought or two on the week.
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BROWN (voice-over): It has been quite remarkable, reporting his death on Saturday, seeing the faces that told the story of the night better than any words could.
The week was a chance to remember John Paul not simply as religious leader, but, as one person said to us this week, as rock star, a player on the world stage for a quarter of a century, through five presidents, from Carter to Reagan, to Bush, to Clinton, to Bush again. In that time, communism fell, Muslim extremism rose. P.C.s went from extravagance to commonplace, cell phones from an idea to virtual necessity; 25 years ago, we still bought encyclopedia. Today, we use the Internet.
The week also provided a chance to look at the challenges facing the Catholic Church, which is growing in the underdeveloped world and struggling in the developed. It's not just the scandals. There are too few American priests and, as we reported last night, one convent has one new novice this year, which is a 100 percent increase over the year before.
The church faces real and complicated issues. That's not criticism. It's fact, birth control, celibacy, marriage for priests, all part of a wide pattern of dissatisfaction in some quarters and none easy for the church to solve and remain true to itself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Which brings us back to what brought us here in the first place, the death of John Paul.
He was a traditionalist on such matters. To him, core values didn't change because times changed. And therein lies the challenge for his church. Can its new leader bring home a flock that is especially willing to challenge orthodoxy and ignore teachings it disagrees with? Can it bring them home in a modern world without losing its ancient soul?
We'll wrap it up from Rome in a moment.
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BROWN: That's it for now in Rome, as we leave St. Peter's for the night.
Hope you'll join us tomorrow, starting at 7:00 p.m. Eastern time. You'll be able to see the entire funeral for Pope John Paul II, if you don't catch it the first time coming up in just a few hours.
We turn now to a recap of the day, an extraordinary day again, in which thousands of pilgrims raced against time to reach the basilica here to say their personal goodbyes for the pope.
We'll see you tomorrow. Good night.
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