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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Tropical Storm Arlene Expected to Make Landfall Tomorrow; Interview With Richard Ben-Veniste
Aired June 10, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, GUEST HOST: I don't know about where you are, but here in New York City tonight, it is hot. It is muggy. It is uncomfortable. The sky opens up almost every night. It feels like the dog days of summer have come to stay, but we'll take it. We'll take it because, even though the forecast may include a thunderstorm or two, it doesn't include this.
Check out this picture, this would be Arlene, a tropical storm at the moment, but forecasters warn that it could turn into the season's first hurricane when it actually makes landfall. They expect it to come ashore tomorrow afternoon.
Now, storm watches and warnings have gone up all along the northern gulf coast, including in Pensacola, Florida, where Susan Candiotti spent some time with a family who does not want a repeat of last year's hurricane season.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBBIE MARSHBURN, FLORIDA RESIDENT: I just can't see, you know, taking that chance with our lives again.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Debbie Marshburn and her husband, Ronnie, don't expect Arlene to come even remotely close to what they experienced during Hurricane Ivan.
RONNIE MARSHBURN, FLORIDA RESIDENT: I never have paid attention to a storm surge or flooding. (INAUDIBLE) been a flood in here, but this was a storm surge that came in from the Gulf of Mexico and brought all of this water in. And that's the only thing that's got me worried about it.
CANDIOTTI: Want an idea of what Ivan was like for the Marshburns?
D. MARSHBURN: When we opened the front door, the water was running up around here. And that log came rushing in here. And the water was running like a river down the street.
CANDIOTTI: Their family, including a 1-year-old grandson, had to hide in the attic as the water rose chest-high in the house.
D. MARSHBURN: Our little grandson was sitting on these stairs. We all went up in the attic and we stayed there until the waters -- until the eye of the storm came around. And the wind shifted. And then the waters just slowly started receding. It was just like taking the bathtub plug out.
CANDIOTTI: Their home is only about 150 yards from the water, and Ivan's storm surge dealt a punishing blow.
D. MARSHBURN: On the other side of the (INAUDIBLE) enclosure, we literally had someone's whole dock that was washed up completely in there.
CANDIOTTI: The storm hit last September. The Marshburns moved back home only one month ago. Things are slowly returning to normal.
D. MARSHBURN: The countertops came up to right around here, and the water just got over those countertops.
CANDIOTTI: The Marshburns aren't the only ones cleaning up. Ten thousands homes are still reportedly in need of repair. They might stay awhile longer, then Pensacola will be just a memory.
R. MARSHBURN: I'm going to retire in another year and a half. And I'm hoping that we can make it to then, and pass that, and possibly get a good market price on the home and move then.
CANDIOTTI: Surviving Ivan taught Debbie an invaluable lesson.
D. MARSHBURN: If you can come out of it and know that you can make it in life without that stuff, then I think you've come out of it successful. And I think that Ronnie and I have done that. We've realized that stuff we put out by the road, when we leave this Earth, we're not taking it with us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: And at this hour, on Pensacola Beach, it is breezy and balmy, barely a white cap in the ocean. Authorities do expect to start feeling some of the outer bands of Arlene sometime overnight, just enough to give people like the Marshburns that queasy feeling -- Paula?
ZAHN: So Susan, what can you tell us tonight about any evacuation orders in effect?
CANDIOTTI: They're not taking any chances. Late this afternoon, they did order some evacuations for beaches along this area. Five shelters have also opened up, so they want to be prepared in case Arlene does do some serious damage. They are expecting a lot of flash flooding, could be up to ten inches of rain, as well -- Paula?
ZAHN: Well, that could have some pretty dramatic impacts. And we are hoping that storm falls apart, but according to what experts are telling us tonight, I guess that does not look likely.
Susan Candiotti, thank you so much for the helpful information.
And as we said, this hurricane season comes far too soon for anyone who lived through the last one. Many are still rebuilding, as you just saw, Susan reporting about, and some only wish they could. From Punta Gorda, Florida, here's John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLEY YONAKA, PORT CHARLOTTE RESIDENT: This is all new. The door's new...
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, Charley and Jeanne Yonaka can laugh about the coincidence. They have the same names as two of the four hurricanes that hit Florida last summer.
JEANNE YONAKA, PORT CHARLOTTE RESIDENT: My daughter called the first week and she said, "Mom, I can't believe it." And I said, "What?" And she said, "Charley and Jeanne." And I said Tanya (ph), I don't see the humor in this right now.
ZARRELLA: With water pouring in, windows blown out, and debris flying in the house, Charley and Jeanne ran to the bathroom. At one point, Charley dashed to the garage for two motorcycle helmets.
(on-screen): I mean, how'd you have the presence of mind in the height of the storm to say, "I'm going to come out to the garage and grab the motorcycle"...
C. YONAKA: Because things were falling down around me. And I was running around like this. I said, "Why am I doing that? I got helmets out in the garage."
ZARRELLA (voice-over): In the end, Hurricane Charley caused about $60,000 damage to their Port Charlotte home.
C. YONAKA: This room here, and that bedroom, were the only two that the ceilings did not fall in on.
ZARRELLA: With the help of skilled friends, the Yonakas repaired most of their home themselves. Insurance covered most of their losses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were warned the day before.
ZARRELLA: Now, at a hurricane-preparedness seminar, they are getting ready for what could be another tough season.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... strengthen that garage door. They attach on the inside, and keep it from being pushed in.
ZARRELLA: Just a few miles away, most people still haven't recovered from last year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of these places still have the blue tarps on them.
GRACE NURSE, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: Yes, they do. They haven't been repaired. The person who owned these properties did not have insurance. ZARRELLA: Grace Nurse runs a housing advocacy group in a low- income neighborhood of Punta Gorda. Few here have the money to rebuild. Nurse believes many will be forced to leave homes that their families have lived in for generations. Tough economic times made worse by real-estate speculators driving up the price of land in an area where demand is always high.
NURSE: Income has not gone up. Salaries have not gone up, but yes, property values have. A lot that would have cost maybe $1,200 or $1,800 a year or two ago is now going for $30,000.
ZARRELLA (on-screen): $30,000?
NURSE: $30,000. So these people are completely priced out of the market.
ZARRELLA (voice-over): The city is hoping to rebuild some public housing in the neighborhood. Housing projects so badly damaged that 150 families had to move out.
This was supposed to be a two-story house. Charley took the second floor. This place, and one next to it, were going to be models for a neighborhood redevelopment project. The families had been pre- approved, and were just months away from moving in. The storm changed everything.
These homes will have to be torn down. And Grace Nurse says there may not be any money to restart the project. In a matter of just a few hours last August, nearly everyone's life in Charlotte County was changed.
Some are recovering. Others may never be the same.
John Zarrella, CNN, Punta Gorda, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And there's another note before moving on. The network will break in any time day or night to bring you urgent information on this storm. You can always get the latest by logging onto our Web site, as well, www.CNN.com. I might have thrown in an extra "w" there. You know what I mean. We will have weather reports, bulletins and the most current weather information available.
Most of us, it's fair to say, are pretty happy to stay inside safe and dry when a big storm is heading our way. Most of us, but not everyone. For a certain kind of thrill-seeker, tornadoes have become a tourist attraction.
Here's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As storm-chasers, we're forecasting for supercells.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At 51, Jonathan Anabnit (ph) is chasing the dream.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would imagine, when that tornado siren sounds, people take heed. Frankly, I'd love the opportunity to be able to do that on this trip.
LAVANDERA: Anabnit (ph) and a group of other storm-chaser- wannabes are on the road with tempest tours. In one week, they'll crisscross five states, 2,500 miles, and no guarantee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you're dealing with Mother Nature, you know, it's unpredictable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Naturally, adventure is nature, and this is fun.
LAVANDERA: Las Animas County, Colorado, the first storm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please keep your hands and arms inside the vehicle, and your tray tables up in their locked positions.
LAVANDERA: A furious hailstorm is OK, but the object here is to find a tornado.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're in the perfect position, as far as the tornado watch box goes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at all of the hanging, scary stuff over there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haven't been scared yet. So maybe a tornado will scare me. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good rotation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incoming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to get back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big time lightning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, we got a tornado right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly has potential.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're cheering on a tornado.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your cameras ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anticipating. It's close. It's the closest I've ever been to one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'd say so, too.
LAVANDERA: The hunt continues into the Texas panhandle, "Tornado Alley."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possible funnel developing right there. Do you see it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's coming right toward us. It is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back in the van.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nonstop chasing for hours and hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a beast of a storm, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Storm chasers all over the place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is major.
LAVANDERA: Tornado sirens are music to the ears of these fanatics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's always a good sign. I think we're in the right spot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here it comes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got some dust that started rising up from the field, everybody thought it was a tornado. It was just the wind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Darn!
LAVANDERA: The guides say there is still a chance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The infamous hook, very, very dangerous. And it is.
LAVANDERA: Sometimes, even fanatics have to play it safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just going to pull out (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is all part of the life of the storm- chaser.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to need a chiropractor here pretty soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to get wet in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was nice and warm a few minute ago, but now you feel the outflow from the rain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we go.
LAVANDERA: The tour is nearing the end. Only one tornado and only one more day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's got a different feel to it. It could be a very interesting day, I'm thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Super-cells look like a real good bet, and a low-level environment looks favorable for tornadoes, too. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: D-day.
LAVANDERA: Reports of tornado touchdowns in Kit Carson County, Colorado, today's target.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you like that structure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Top-five structure, I think, in my 15 years. This is amazing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're real. They're here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This storm is so beautiful, I don't even care if I see a tornado.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell? Did something hit me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Starting to hail like crazy now. Oh, boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just hit me on the head. That just hit me on the head.
LAVANDERA: Chaos, but images of beauty are what they take away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That last supercell, it took my breath away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Storm chasing in general, you get what you get. And I'd say, this time we got some pretty good stuff, so I'm pretty satisfied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's everything that I really expected it to be and more. Mother Nature is -- I think it's a great journey.
LAVANDERA: Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: So I guess we all have very different ideas of what is beautiful. Having grown up in the Midwest, I find those funnel clouds downright scary.
In just a moment, the state of Michael Jackson's finances, what his balance sheet really shows.
But first, we're just about 13 minutes past the hour. Time to check in with Erica Hill of Headline News. Hi, Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, Paula.
We actually are going to start off with some breaking news now. A possible case of mad cow disease. But for now, we do want to say it's only a possibility.
According to the Department of Agriculture, a sample from a cow that came up inconclusive on the first test, then negative on the second, actually got a positive reading on the third test, which is a more sensitive one.
What does this mean? Well, more testing. But the good news here. The animal in question was what's known as a downer cow. It was already sick, and it never entered the food supply.
The military launching a criminal investigation into the deaths of two soldiers killed on Tuesday near Tikrit. Initial reports blamed a mortar attack. Investigators there now believe an accident, an attack by an infiltrator or even possibly friendly fire may have caused their deaths.
President Bush met with South Korea's president at the White House today. The two talking about North Korea's nuclear weapons and getting that country back to the negotiating table. Mr. Bush said the U.S. and South Korea both want the Korean peninsula to be free of nuclear arms.
You may recall earlier this week, North Korea hinted it may be willing to return to those multinational talks that have been stalled since last year.
And Paula, that's the latest from Headline News at this hour. Back over to you.
ZAHN: Thanks so much. See you a little bit later on in this hour.
Straight ahead on the program, as a jury in California deliberates his legal fate, there are other worries for Michael Jackson, the high cost of living large.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): He's made more than half a billion dollars, and now he's facing enormous debt.
JULIE BOORSTIN, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: In this trial, it was estimated that Michael Jackson was spending about $20 million a year more than he was bringing in.
ZAHN: The rise and fall of a fortune.
How do you sell this to a potential Army recruit?
SGT. 1ST CLASS GREGORY DAVIS, U.S. ARMY RECRUITER: It's a little more difficult to talk to some of the kids now.
ZAHN: How far is the Army going for a few good recruits?
ANNA QUINDLEN, AUTHOR: It's not enough anymore to do things. You have to be the biggest, the best, the most famous.
ZAHN: Why it's tough to be a kid today. And why parents struggle, too. QUINDLEN: Kids, I think, are pretty good at separating easily. Parents are terrible at separating easily.
ZAHN: A NEWSNIGHT conversation with author and parent Anna Quindlen. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: I don't know about you, but I think that "CNN," you know, those three letters should be even bigger than what appeared on screen.
Still no verdict in the Michael Jackson trial. Jurors have been at it all week long. According to sources close to the case, they asked the judge a number of questions today and had portions of key testimony read back to them. They're going to be back on the job on Monday morning.
We are joined by our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, a former prosecutor himself.
So, Jeff, as best we can put this together from our reporters on the scene, that the portion of the testimony these jurors wanted to hear read back was some of the testimony of the 15-year-old accuser.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: The key testimony in the case. It makes sense. I mean, it is -- if they believe that testimony, Michael Jackson's going to prison. I mean, that's the end -- there were hundreds -- or more than 100 witnesses, but that's really the key testimony. And you know, I guess it makes sense. And it shows the jury was paying attention, because it really all comes down to that.
ZAHN: But I think we also need to remember that some of the most explosive days in this trial came on the day when the defense attorney, Mesereau, tried to convince the jurors that this kid was lying.
TOOBIN: Absolutely.
ZAHN: That he totally made up the stories.
TOOBIN: And Mesereau, I thought, was effective. The question is, how effective? And the jury, it appears, is zeroing in on that question of, you know, is he believable? I mean, Mesereau is no dummy either. And he knows that he had to discredit this boy or his client's going to go to jail.
ZAHN: Without spending five days doing this for us, go through what the overt inconsistencies would be that these jurors might be focusing in on.
TOOBIN: Well, he said that there were a couple of incidents of sexual molestation. His brother testified to a somewhat different series of acts of molestation. Afterwards, the boy told the department -- told his teacher that Michael Jackson had not molested him, the dean of his school. So I mean, his story has changed in some important details, which may reflect that he's making it up, or it may simply reflect the confusion, and doubt, and understandable unease of a 13-year-old abuse victim.
ZAHN: As a former prosecutor, what do you read into these questions being asked back and what impact it ultimately has on the pace of the deliberation?
TOOBIN: Well, as a journalist, I am so outraged that these are not public. I have never covered a trial, I've never participated in a trial where jury questions are not immediately released to the public. Judge...
ZAHN: Well, he obviously -- the judge felt that this was going to taint the jury in some way.
TOOBIN: I mean, but that's not the law, as far as I'm aware. And also, I mean, how can you taint the jury pool with questions that came from the jury?
I mean, it's one thing to protect the jury from information that they shouldn't have that's inadmissible. This is something that comes directly from them.
And also, I mean, you know, one of the thing the press is supposed to do is keep an eye on government officials like judges and to see that they're acting fairly and apply public scrutiny. And suppose he's favoring wildly one side or the other in responding to these questions. I mean, that would be significant news. But we have no way of reporting it, and I just think it's wrong.
ZAHN: Very quickly, in closing, any predictions to make for next week, when we might see a verdict come down, given what happened today?
TOOBIN: I think, you know, a bunch of questions usually signals that they are moving towards the end. So I would say by the middle of the week. If there's not a verdict, it would suggest that there's some real trouble there, and then you start thinking about a hung jury, but not yet.
ZAHN: So why don't you pick up the phone right now and give Judge Melville a call? See if you can get some of those questions answered for us.
TOOBIN: I'm interested in staying out of prison myself. So...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Yes, I bet so. Thanks, Jeffrey. Appreciate your dropping by.
If there is no verdict yet on the charges, there is a verdict on this, his finances. Whether or not he gets sent up the river, Michael Jackson is almost certainly up the creek.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): He may be the most famous entertainer to ever stand trial on felony charges, but being this famous also comes with a price tag, and in Michael Jackson's case, it's a hefty one.
It's no secret the self-proclaimed King of Pop has a pension for the finer things, like not waiting in airport lines, from routinely booking $50,000 charter jet flights on impulse, even once chartering a smaller jet for friend comedian Chris tucker to the tune of $40,000. It costs Jackson $4 million a year just to maintain his 2,800-acre Neverland ranch. That's not including taxes.
Martin Bashir's documentary revealed shopping sprees that averaged tens of thousands of dollars. When he's not at home, hotel suites at $10,000 a night. It's a lofty running tab.
The question is, can he afford it? He's reported to have borrowed $200 million, using his half ownership of the rights to Beatles and Elvis recordings as collateral.
BOORSTIN: In this trial, it was estimated that Michael Jackson was spending about $20 million a year more than he was bringing in.
ZAHN: Over the course of his career, Jackson has made more than half a billion dollars, building his fortune in the '80s with the release of the album "Thriller" and signing a $65 million 1991 recording deal with Sony.
But over the last ten years, Jackson's record sales have taken a hit, and so has his bank account. Jackson's criminal trial has given us an all-access pass to the singer's dwindling finances, and it looks like this big spender is in serious debt.
BOORSTIN: The average American has almost $10,000 just in credit card debt. So it's not that unusual that Michael Jackson would take out $200 million of debt at a bank. You know, it's a different scale, for certain, but you know, he's living a bigger lifestyle than the average American.
ZAHN: But living large and mounting legal bills have saddled Jackson with a personal debt of $270 million, according to trial testimony. He owes a lot of money to a lot of people.
BOORSTIN: He has his divorce settlement with his second wife, which will cost him about $10 million. And he had a settlement with a molestation case over ten years ago which will cost him about $15 million.
ZAHN: Jackson may have to sell his 50 percent share of Sony/ATV Music Publishing, which would mean giving up any rights to his Beatles and Elvis libraries. But if he sells that, he's buying a tax bill that will cost him in the hundreds of millions of dollars. For the embattled pop star who lives on a scale beyond most ordinary mortals, the future doesn't look bright. The jury is still out. (END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Still to come tonight, how far the Army is going for a few good recruits. And where are the young people who are signing up coming from?
And a little bit later on, how well is the FBI protecting the country from terrorism?
A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: The U.S. military said today that five marines were killed yesterday in a roadside bombing during combat operations in Iraq. Days like this are making an already difficult task even harder for the Army and the Marines recruiting new troops.
Here's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Despite the Army's recruiting woes, it can still find tens of thousands of young people willing to sign up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been in my blood for a very long time. And it's tradition. And I just want to be patriotic, pretty much.
MCINTYRE: Eighteen-year-old Amanda McArthur (ph) followed her father's footsteps, right into this recruiting station in Stockbridge, Georgia. But Sergeant Gregory Davis admits the Army is a tough sell with a war raging.
SGT. 1ST CLASS GREGORY DAVIS, RECRUITER, U.S. ARMY: It's a little more difficult to talk to some of the kids now.
MCINTYRE: Sergeant Davis has his work cut out for him. If the Army's going to make its year-end goal of 80,000 recruits by September 30th, recruiters across the country will have to bring in as many fresh troops over the next four months as they did over the last eight.
Where will they come from? This map shows the Army's success rate so far. Green areas have high rates of signing up. Red areas are low. And if you look at the greenest areas, you'll notice something interesting: Four of the five are near big Army bases.
So Amanda McArthur (ph) is an example of what the Army concludes is one of the biggest factors influencing recruits: being from a military family or living near a military town.
And then there is that money for college and a chance for an exciting career.
DAVIS: In this area, the kids are really interested in the training. In particular, they want to fly helicopters, or they want to do special forces, or something where there's plenty of adventure for them.
MCINTYRE (on camera): The Army knows money is a lure. It increased bonuses to as much as $20,000 as recruiting got tougher, and it's considering bonuses of up to $40,000 for some specialties. But the Army claims its own analysis refutes who some critics claim, that it's drawing disproportionately from poorer Americans, those desperate for jobs.
(voice-over): And experts agree, money is rarely the sole deciding factor.
JAMES CARAFANO, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: People serve because they want to serve, but economics is part of the decision of whether they come in and where they're going. You don't have to be poor to see the attractiveness of being in the military.
MCINTYRE: In fact, the latest Army statistics from 2004 show that, at least racially, the Army is more closely reflecting the larger society.
For instance, African-Americans, who used to be over-represented in the army at 22 percent of the force, now make up closer to 16 percent, roughly the same percentage they are of the U.S. population.
More women are signing up at Sergeant Davis's suburban Atlanta recruiting station, but nationwide, the percentage of women enlisting has dropped. And while it used to be the Army was seen as a great color-blind job opportunities for minorities, recruiters say increasingly politics is a consideration.
DAVIS: A lot of people in that area just don't really support who we have as a president, and they say that they're not signing up because of who is in office.
MCINTYRE: But there's no secret about the biggest obstacle recruiters have to overcome. It's not the reluctance of recruits, but of their parents. So the Army's latest ad campaign is aimed directly at them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, dad, there's something I need to tell you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much is this going to cost me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's not like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the motorcycle thing again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not the motorcycle. It's about what you said the other day. About doing something for myself. Maybe something important.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, go ahead. DAVIS: So, I say well ma'am, your son or daughter can get killed right out there in the streets of Atlanta, and you know, when you compare the numbers of the people that have died as a result of combat, compared to the numbers that die here in the metro Atlanta area, I don't -- would you think there was more war going on here.
MCINTYRE: Sergeant Davis says the number one question asked by potential recruits is, "Will I go to war?" His answer, "There's a 50/50 chance."
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And still to come tonight, a conversation with author Anna Quindlen. What is it like to be a parent, and a kid in the age of great expectations?
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Well, certainly not every commencement speech leads to a book, but when you're an author, and you've sold a lot of books before, stranger things could happen.
Anna Quindlen's new book, "Being Perfect," came out of a commencement speech she wrote. It's about expectations and becoming the person you want to be. Aaron talked with her the other day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AARON BROWN, HOST: You're writing a lot -- you've always written a lot about parenting and kids. Let's talk, some, about parenting and kids. Parenting hasn't changed, but parents have had to change by circumstances. Do you think -- do you think parents are happy these days with the way they do their work?
ANNA QUINDLEN, AUTHOR, "BEING PERFECT": No, I think parents are incredibly stressed out. I mean, I just wrote a column a couple months ago for "Newsweek," called "The Good Enough Mother," about being forgiving with yourself; about having a good time, and not worrying too much about whether they're in enough soccer leagues, or they have the right tutor, or that kind of thing.
BROWN: Do you think kids are happy?
QUINDLEN: I think some kids are, but I think kids are incredibly stressed out. I mean, I think they feel like there's these great expectations. I mean, I remember one of mine having a major meltdown in high school, and saying to me, "What is the point of the exercise?"
I think it was when the college thing was looming, and I said, "We just want you to be happy," and he slammed his fist down on the table, and said, "Mom, none of this has anything to do with happiness." And boy was he right. BROWN: If kids are stressed out it's because parents are stressing them out? That their expectations -- the expectations of parents stressing them out?
QUINDLEN: Partly parents. Some of them feel it at school. Some of them just feel this societal psych-guise. That it's not enough, anymore, to do things. You have to be the biggest, the best, the most famous -- fame is a huge part of their world view, because it's fame that they see as an end in itself for so many people. And it hangs heavy over some of them, I think.
BROWN: How do you, on the one hand -- as you look back on some of this you want your kid to reach their potential, their full potential, whatever that is. That is not an unreasonable expectation, and that's actually, I think, a great thing for a parent to encourage: be the best you can be at whatever that is -- without stressing them out in the process?
QUINDLEN: Well, sometimes the oversight means that they're not reaching their full potential, because you're trying to mold them into some generally-accepted principle of the good kid. Sometimes, not taking into account who the real kid really is. I remember when my kids went and did that whole nursery school thing, and there was a line on the form that said, "separates easily." Kids, I think, are pretty good at separating easily. Parents are terrible at separating easily.
And I think sometimes, particularly when they get to be teenagers, you have to draw that line between moving forward and stepping back. And sometimes, I think, stepping back is the part we're not getting.
BROWN: One of the things that you are asked to do, and I honestly, I think you get to do this -- a great, fun thing to do, is you talk -- you do commencement speeches.
QUINDLEN: Right.
BROWN: A few times a year. What are you going to say this year to kids? What's rumbling around in your brain this year?
QUINDLEN: Well, actually, I've just finished writing one, and I'm going to talk about courage. About how fear is really one of the great destroyers in our society, right now.
Fear of people who are different than we are. Fear of stepping outside of the box. Fear of making people angry. It's fear that's paralyzed, our entire political process. You know, we have a bunch of people who are trying to be all-things to all-people, which really means that they wind up being nothing at all. And, you know, in both the Old and the New Testament, there are all kinds of places where someone says, "Fear not," or, "Be not afraid." And that's what I'm going to say to them.
BROWN: Would you have any interest, other than the fact you could be a kid again, being a kid again in these times? QUINDLEN: Not even in my own times. I have to say, I would never -- I mean, I look at my daughter sometimes, and the only time it's really hard for me to lay down the law with her is when I'm empathizing. And boy, I'm doing that a lot, thinking, I remember that. Oh, Lord, let it never happen again. You know?
BROWN: The book is a great, fun -- and for those of us who parent -- interesting read, and you're a great, fun and interesting person. It's always nice to see you.
QUINDLEN: Thanks.
BROWN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And always honest to boot.
Straight ahead, is the Terminator about to detonate a political bombshell in California? The headlines next, because this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: And we're back. Just about 15 minutes before the hour. Time to check back in with Erica Hill in Atlanta. Could you see the steam in the air tonight in New York City?
HILL: I'm telling you, you must have some of the steam that we have here in Atlanta. It's not pleasant.
ZAHN: No, it's awful out there.
HILL: No. Well, stay in the air conditioning, Paula.
ZAHN: I'm enjoying this, my little cocoon here this evening.
HILL: There you go.
We start off tonight in California where Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger must decide by Monday whether to call for a special election in November. Voters would decide on three ballot measures: they would change get tenure, the way electoral districts are drawn and one would crack down on state spending. Those are all issues Schwarzenegger calls vital to California's future.
A deadly accident this morning just outside of New York City. An oil tanker carrying 10,000 gallons of home heating oil collided with a dump truck on Long Island. The fuel exploded, igniting several other vehicles. At least four people were killed.
Denise Brown became a public figure a decade ago when her sister, Nicole Brown Simpson was murdered and O.J. Simpson was put on trial. Tonight, her story is the focus of CNN's anniversary series, "Then and Now."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): As the outspoken sister of Nicole Brown Simpson, Denise Brown was one of the first to talk about the other side of football hero O.J. Simpson. Brown's emotional testimony early in Simpson's trial was unforgettable.
DENISE BROWN, SISTER OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: Picked her up and threw her out of the house. She ended up on her -- she ended up falling.
ZAHN: After the trial, Brown became an advocate against domestic violence. She currently runs the Nicole Brown Charitable Foundation, which helps battered women and their children.
BROWN: Educating myself and starting to travel, I learned about domestic violence. I learned what my sister was going through.
ZAHN: Brown maintains a relationship with Nicole's children, Sydney and Justin, who live in Florida with their father. But she doesn't see or talk with O.J.
BROWN: I can't stand the ground he walks on. I believe he murdered my sister. And I will always think that.
ZAHN: Brown still wears the silver cross that belonged to her sister.
BROWN: She's always missed, you know. Every single day, there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about her.
ZAHN: And she marks every anniversary of Nicole's death with a candlelight vigil.
BROWN: I just don't want another person to suffer something like we did. And I think that's what drives me. And I know Nicole's with me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: The president visited a state-of-the-art Situation Room today. It's designed to bring together people and information from the CIA, FBI, Homeland Security and so on. Critics, though, have their doubt about whether a new location can actually change what they say are old, bad habits, namely that agencies don't like sharing intelligence and still aren't very good at analyzing intelligence.
Those problems were front and center in a report from the Justice Department's inspector general about 9/11 and missed opportunities in advance of that catastrophic day. It's a year old, but it's come to light now in connection with the case of Zacarias Moussaoui. So, has anything changed? Reporting for us tonight, Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maureen Baginski represents the new, improved FBI.
MAUREEN BAGINSKI, FBI INTELLIGENCE DIRECTORATE: Every day, my job is to give the FBI its intelligence capability, plain and simple.
ARENA: She's head of the bureau's new Directorate of Intelligence. Getting the right intelligence to the right agents in the field is crucial to the FBI's primary mission since September 11th -- preventing terror attacks.
And sharing that information with other agencies is just as important, something that simply did not happen before.
One example cited in the recently released inspector general's report, the CIA knew two suspected terrorists who became 9/11 hijackers had come into the United States but didn't tell the FBI until just before they attacked. Now, FBI and CIA agents work side by side in the new National Counterterrorism Center.
BAGINSKI: People work together, shoulder to shoulder every day, share threat information, and are very, very focused on the sum total of their parts being greater than any of the individual pieces.
ARENA: Jamie Gorelick, a former 9/11 commissioner, says it's not enough. Turf battles and communication breakdowns still exist.
JAMIE GORELICK, FORMER 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Within the FBI and the CIA, you have very strong, strong cultures, and no matter how many legal walls you break down, and no matter how many mandates you announce, you still need to work with the people who make up an organization, to have them work effectively.
ARENA: Another problem, says Gorelick, the FBI's failure to upgrade its computer case management system.
GORELICK: We've been taken aback, I think, by the failure of the technology, the big technology project that was supposed to knit the FBI together and allow sharing of information.
ARENA: And while the FBI is putting out more intelligence, is it better intelligence?
JOHN GANNON, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE COUNCIL: Everybody's producing, but I think there's actually less qualitative analysis taking place.
BAGINSKI: My response is that probably we could pick a product from any intelligence community organization and find fault with it. We are working very hard on the quality, but I would put the quality of our reporting against pretty much anybody's reporting.
ARENA: Security experts say there doesn't seem to be any real momentum to dismantle the FBI. It's simply an effort by those seeking faster reform to keep the heat on.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Progress is too slow for everybody. Everyone would like this to be done quicker, but this is a very large and complex organization, and change comes slowly for it.
ARENA: The FBI's Baginski and her colleagues are aware of the stakes.
BAGINSKI: It's a solemn trust, and I take it very, very seriously.
ARENA: There is even more scrutiny ahead. A major evaluation is expected in September, a little more than a year after the 9/11 Commission's report.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And Richard Ben-Veniste served on that 9/11 Commission. Fair to say he's been highly critical at times of both the administration's policy and the FBI's handling of intelligence. I spoke with him a little bit earlier this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Let's talk about what is to be learned from some of these stinging new details in the report. The FBI would argue that, in fact, you see an increased intelligence capability on its part, that its technology is improved. Do you give the FBI credit for improving anything in the aftermath of 9/11?
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, FORMER 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Well, the improvements, Paula, have been slow in coming. Unfortunately, there is much more to do in terms of communications within the FBI itself, in hiring the kinds of people who can properly analyze and collect information on the potential terrorist threat within the United States. That is unfortunate. Their information technology has been a disaster. Hundreds of millions of dollars wasted so far, and precious time wasted. So there is very much to do, and it begins to try the patience of some who are overseeing the process.
ZAHN: Do you not think we're safer today than we were in the days leading up to September 11th, 2001?
BEN-VENISTE: Well, you know, that's a difficult question. I think domestically, we are far more aware and far more prepared to deal with a terrorist threat than we were then. Unfortunately, as the CIA analysis has shown, we are creating terrorists at a rate of far beyond our ability to kill terrorists. So the simple math is not good.
One of the things the 9/11 Commission recommended had to do with human rights, and America's diplomatic and other efforts throughout the world, to combat the attraction of fundamentalist terrorism in Muslim countries. And here, we have led with our chin instead of with our heart and our soul. We have shown the world a very unfortunate picture, not representative and certainly, in my view, an un-American portrait of abuses, torture.
ZAHN: You're not suggesting that this administration isn't serious about this war on terrorism, are you?
BEN-VENISTE: I'm -- I am suggesting that there has been a very substantial amount of activity, some of which has made us safer, some of which has shown to be extraordinarily wasteful.
ZAHN: What is it that the commission plans to do with this report by the inspectors general?
BEN-VENISTE: Paula, the 9/11 Commission members, the 10 of us acting as private citizens, concerned private citizens, are holding a series of hearings this summer. We've already had one last week. We'll have another one Monday, to evaluate the kind of progress or lack of progress on the recommendations which we made over the past year, and so we will also issue a report card this coming September.
ZAHN: Thank you so much for your time. Always good to have you with us on the air. Appreciate it.
BEN-VENISTE: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And we'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Have a great weekend, everybody.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
Aired June 10, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
PAULA ZAHN, GUEST HOST: I don't know about where you are, but here in New York City tonight, it is hot. It is muggy. It is uncomfortable. The sky opens up almost every night. It feels like the dog days of summer have come to stay, but we'll take it. We'll take it because, even though the forecast may include a thunderstorm or two, it doesn't include this.
Check out this picture, this would be Arlene, a tropical storm at the moment, but forecasters warn that it could turn into the season's first hurricane when it actually makes landfall. They expect it to come ashore tomorrow afternoon.
Now, storm watches and warnings have gone up all along the northern gulf coast, including in Pensacola, Florida, where Susan Candiotti spent some time with a family who does not want a repeat of last year's hurricane season.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DEBBIE MARSHBURN, FLORIDA RESIDENT: I just can't see, you know, taking that chance with our lives again.
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Debbie Marshburn and her husband, Ronnie, don't expect Arlene to come even remotely close to what they experienced during Hurricane Ivan.
RONNIE MARSHBURN, FLORIDA RESIDENT: I never have paid attention to a storm surge or flooding. (INAUDIBLE) been a flood in here, but this was a storm surge that came in from the Gulf of Mexico and brought all of this water in. And that's the only thing that's got me worried about it.
CANDIOTTI: Want an idea of what Ivan was like for the Marshburns?
D. MARSHBURN: When we opened the front door, the water was running up around here. And that log came rushing in here. And the water was running like a river down the street.
CANDIOTTI: Their family, including a 1-year-old grandson, had to hide in the attic as the water rose chest-high in the house.
D. MARSHBURN: Our little grandson was sitting on these stairs. We all went up in the attic and we stayed there until the waters -- until the eye of the storm came around. And the wind shifted. And then the waters just slowly started receding. It was just like taking the bathtub plug out.
CANDIOTTI: Their home is only about 150 yards from the water, and Ivan's storm surge dealt a punishing blow.
D. MARSHBURN: On the other side of the (INAUDIBLE) enclosure, we literally had someone's whole dock that was washed up completely in there.
CANDIOTTI: The storm hit last September. The Marshburns moved back home only one month ago. Things are slowly returning to normal.
D. MARSHBURN: The countertops came up to right around here, and the water just got over those countertops.
CANDIOTTI: The Marshburns aren't the only ones cleaning up. Ten thousands homes are still reportedly in need of repair. They might stay awhile longer, then Pensacola will be just a memory.
R. MARSHBURN: I'm going to retire in another year and a half. And I'm hoping that we can make it to then, and pass that, and possibly get a good market price on the home and move then.
CANDIOTTI: Surviving Ivan taught Debbie an invaluable lesson.
D. MARSHBURN: If you can come out of it and know that you can make it in life without that stuff, then I think you've come out of it successful. And I think that Ronnie and I have done that. We've realized that stuff we put out by the road, when we leave this Earth, we're not taking it with us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CANDIOTTI: And at this hour, on Pensacola Beach, it is breezy and balmy, barely a white cap in the ocean. Authorities do expect to start feeling some of the outer bands of Arlene sometime overnight, just enough to give people like the Marshburns that queasy feeling -- Paula?
ZAHN: So Susan, what can you tell us tonight about any evacuation orders in effect?
CANDIOTTI: They're not taking any chances. Late this afternoon, they did order some evacuations for beaches along this area. Five shelters have also opened up, so they want to be prepared in case Arlene does do some serious damage. They are expecting a lot of flash flooding, could be up to ten inches of rain, as well -- Paula?
ZAHN: Well, that could have some pretty dramatic impacts. And we are hoping that storm falls apart, but according to what experts are telling us tonight, I guess that does not look likely.
Susan Candiotti, thank you so much for the helpful information.
And as we said, this hurricane season comes far too soon for anyone who lived through the last one. Many are still rebuilding, as you just saw, Susan reporting about, and some only wish they could. From Punta Gorda, Florida, here's John Zarrella.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHARLEY YONAKA, PORT CHARLOTTE RESIDENT: This is all new. The door's new...
JOHN ZARRELLA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, Charley and Jeanne Yonaka can laugh about the coincidence. They have the same names as two of the four hurricanes that hit Florida last summer.
JEANNE YONAKA, PORT CHARLOTTE RESIDENT: My daughter called the first week and she said, "Mom, I can't believe it." And I said, "What?" And she said, "Charley and Jeanne." And I said Tanya (ph), I don't see the humor in this right now.
ZARRELLA: With water pouring in, windows blown out, and debris flying in the house, Charley and Jeanne ran to the bathroom. At one point, Charley dashed to the garage for two motorcycle helmets.
(on-screen): I mean, how'd you have the presence of mind in the height of the storm to say, "I'm going to come out to the garage and grab the motorcycle"...
C. YONAKA: Because things were falling down around me. And I was running around like this. I said, "Why am I doing that? I got helmets out in the garage."
ZARRELLA (voice-over): In the end, Hurricane Charley caused about $60,000 damage to their Port Charlotte home.
C. YONAKA: This room here, and that bedroom, were the only two that the ceilings did not fall in on.
ZARRELLA: With the help of skilled friends, the Yonakas repaired most of their home themselves. Insurance covered most of their losses.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You were warned the day before.
ZARRELLA: Now, at a hurricane-preparedness seminar, they are getting ready for what could be another tough season.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... strengthen that garage door. They attach on the inside, and keep it from being pushed in.
ZARRELLA: Just a few miles away, most people still haven't recovered from last year.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A lot of these places still have the blue tarps on them.
GRACE NURSE, COMMUNITY ACTIVIST: Yes, they do. They haven't been repaired. The person who owned these properties did not have insurance. ZARRELLA: Grace Nurse runs a housing advocacy group in a low- income neighborhood of Punta Gorda. Few here have the money to rebuild. Nurse believes many will be forced to leave homes that their families have lived in for generations. Tough economic times made worse by real-estate speculators driving up the price of land in an area where demand is always high.
NURSE: Income has not gone up. Salaries have not gone up, but yes, property values have. A lot that would have cost maybe $1,200 or $1,800 a year or two ago is now going for $30,000.
ZARRELLA (on-screen): $30,000?
NURSE: $30,000. So these people are completely priced out of the market.
ZARRELLA (voice-over): The city is hoping to rebuild some public housing in the neighborhood. Housing projects so badly damaged that 150 families had to move out.
This was supposed to be a two-story house. Charley took the second floor. This place, and one next to it, were going to be models for a neighborhood redevelopment project. The families had been pre- approved, and were just months away from moving in. The storm changed everything.
These homes will have to be torn down. And Grace Nurse says there may not be any money to restart the project. In a matter of just a few hours last August, nearly everyone's life in Charlotte County was changed.
Some are recovering. Others may never be the same.
John Zarrella, CNN, Punta Gorda, Florida.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And there's another note before moving on. The network will break in any time day or night to bring you urgent information on this storm. You can always get the latest by logging onto our Web site, as well, www.CNN.com. I might have thrown in an extra "w" there. You know what I mean. We will have weather reports, bulletins and the most current weather information available.
Most of us, it's fair to say, are pretty happy to stay inside safe and dry when a big storm is heading our way. Most of us, but not everyone. For a certain kind of thrill-seeker, tornadoes have become a tourist attraction.
Here's Ed Lavandera.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As storm-chasers, we're forecasting for supercells.
ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): At 51, Jonathan Anabnit (ph) is chasing the dream.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would imagine, when that tornado siren sounds, people take heed. Frankly, I'd love the opportunity to be able to do that on this trip.
LAVANDERA: Anabnit (ph) and a group of other storm-chaser- wannabes are on the road with tempest tours. In one week, they'll crisscross five states, 2,500 miles, and no guarantee.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you're dealing with Mother Nature, you know, it's unpredictable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Naturally, adventure is nature, and this is fun.
LAVANDERA: Las Animas County, Colorado, the first storm.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please keep your hands and arms inside the vehicle, and your tray tables up in their locked positions.
LAVANDERA: A furious hailstorm is OK, but the object here is to find a tornado.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we're in the perfect position, as far as the tornado watch box goes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look at all of the hanging, scary stuff over there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Haven't been scared yet. So maybe a tornado will scare me. (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good rotation.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Incoming.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got to get back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big time lightning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, we got a tornado right there.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Certainly has potential.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're cheering on a tornado.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your cameras ready.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anticipating. It's close. It's the closest I've ever been to one.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I'd say so, too.
LAVANDERA: The hunt continues into the Texas panhandle, "Tornado Alley."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Possible funnel developing right there. Do you see it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's coming right toward us. It is.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get back in the van.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nonstop chasing for hours and hours.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a beast of a storm, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Storm chasers all over the place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is major.
LAVANDERA: Tornado sirens are music to the ears of these fanatics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's always a good sign. I think we're in the right spot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here it comes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got some dust that started rising up from the field, everybody thought it was a tornado. It was just the wind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Darn!
LAVANDERA: The guides say there is still a chance.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The infamous hook, very, very dangerous. And it is.
LAVANDERA: Sometimes, even fanatics have to play it safe.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're just going to pull out (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is all part of the life of the storm- chaser.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to need a chiropractor here pretty soon.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to get wet in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It was nice and warm a few minute ago, but now you feel the outflow from the rain.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we go.
LAVANDERA: The tour is nearing the end. Only one tornado and only one more day.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's got a different feel to it. It could be a very interesting day, I'm thinking.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Super-cells look like a real good bet, and a low-level environment looks favorable for tornadoes, too. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: D-day.
LAVANDERA: Reports of tornado touchdowns in Kit Carson County, Colorado, today's target.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you like that structure.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Top-five structure, I think, in my 15 years. This is amazing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're real. They're here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This storm is so beautiful, I don't even care if I see a tornado.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What the hell? Did something hit me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm out of here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Starting to hail like crazy now. Oh, boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It just hit me on the head. That just hit me on the head.
LAVANDERA: Chaos, but images of beauty are what they take away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That last supercell, it took my breath away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Storm chasing in general, you get what you get. And I'd say, this time we got some pretty good stuff, so I'm pretty satisfied.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's everything that I really expected it to be and more. Mother Nature is -- I think it's a great journey.
LAVANDERA: Ed Lavandera, CNN, Dallas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: So I guess we all have very different ideas of what is beautiful. Having grown up in the Midwest, I find those funnel clouds downright scary.
In just a moment, the state of Michael Jackson's finances, what his balance sheet really shows.
But first, we're just about 13 minutes past the hour. Time to check in with Erica Hill of Headline News. Hi, Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNN HEADLINE NEWS ANCHOR: Hi, Paula.
We actually are going to start off with some breaking news now. A possible case of mad cow disease. But for now, we do want to say it's only a possibility.
According to the Department of Agriculture, a sample from a cow that came up inconclusive on the first test, then negative on the second, actually got a positive reading on the third test, which is a more sensitive one.
What does this mean? Well, more testing. But the good news here. The animal in question was what's known as a downer cow. It was already sick, and it never entered the food supply.
The military launching a criminal investigation into the deaths of two soldiers killed on Tuesday near Tikrit. Initial reports blamed a mortar attack. Investigators there now believe an accident, an attack by an infiltrator or even possibly friendly fire may have caused their deaths.
President Bush met with South Korea's president at the White House today. The two talking about North Korea's nuclear weapons and getting that country back to the negotiating table. Mr. Bush said the U.S. and South Korea both want the Korean peninsula to be free of nuclear arms.
You may recall earlier this week, North Korea hinted it may be willing to return to those multinational talks that have been stalled since last year.
And Paula, that's the latest from Headline News at this hour. Back over to you.
ZAHN: Thanks so much. See you a little bit later on in this hour.
Straight ahead on the program, as a jury in California deliberates his legal fate, there are other worries for Michael Jackson, the high cost of living large.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): He's made more than half a billion dollars, and now he's facing enormous debt.
JULIE BOORSTIN, "FORTUNE" MAGAZINE: In this trial, it was estimated that Michael Jackson was spending about $20 million a year more than he was bringing in.
ZAHN: The rise and fall of a fortune.
How do you sell this to a potential Army recruit?
SGT. 1ST CLASS GREGORY DAVIS, U.S. ARMY RECRUITER: It's a little more difficult to talk to some of the kids now.
ZAHN: How far is the Army going for a few good recruits?
ANNA QUINDLEN, AUTHOR: It's not enough anymore to do things. You have to be the biggest, the best, the most famous.
ZAHN: Why it's tough to be a kid today. And why parents struggle, too. QUINDLEN: Kids, I think, are pretty good at separating easily. Parents are terrible at separating easily.
ZAHN: A NEWSNIGHT conversation with author and parent Anna Quindlen. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: I don't know about you, but I think that "CNN," you know, those three letters should be even bigger than what appeared on screen.
Still no verdict in the Michael Jackson trial. Jurors have been at it all week long. According to sources close to the case, they asked the judge a number of questions today and had portions of key testimony read back to them. They're going to be back on the job on Monday morning.
We are joined by our legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin, a former prosecutor himself.
So, Jeff, as best we can put this together from our reporters on the scene, that the portion of the testimony these jurors wanted to hear read back was some of the testimony of the 15-year-old accuser.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SR. LEGAL ANALYST: The key testimony in the case. It makes sense. I mean, it is -- if they believe that testimony, Michael Jackson's going to prison. I mean, that's the end -- there were hundreds -- or more than 100 witnesses, but that's really the key testimony. And you know, I guess it makes sense. And it shows the jury was paying attention, because it really all comes down to that.
ZAHN: But I think we also need to remember that some of the most explosive days in this trial came on the day when the defense attorney, Mesereau, tried to convince the jurors that this kid was lying.
TOOBIN: Absolutely.
ZAHN: That he totally made up the stories.
TOOBIN: And Mesereau, I thought, was effective. The question is, how effective? And the jury, it appears, is zeroing in on that question of, you know, is he believable? I mean, Mesereau is no dummy either. And he knows that he had to discredit this boy or his client's going to go to jail.
ZAHN: Without spending five days doing this for us, go through what the overt inconsistencies would be that these jurors might be focusing in on.
TOOBIN: Well, he said that there were a couple of incidents of sexual molestation. His brother testified to a somewhat different series of acts of molestation. Afterwards, the boy told the department -- told his teacher that Michael Jackson had not molested him, the dean of his school. So I mean, his story has changed in some important details, which may reflect that he's making it up, or it may simply reflect the confusion, and doubt, and understandable unease of a 13-year-old abuse victim.
ZAHN: As a former prosecutor, what do you read into these questions being asked back and what impact it ultimately has on the pace of the deliberation?
TOOBIN: Well, as a journalist, I am so outraged that these are not public. I have never covered a trial, I've never participated in a trial where jury questions are not immediately released to the public. Judge...
ZAHN: Well, he obviously -- the judge felt that this was going to taint the jury in some way.
TOOBIN: I mean, but that's not the law, as far as I'm aware. And also, I mean, how can you taint the jury pool with questions that came from the jury?
I mean, it's one thing to protect the jury from information that they shouldn't have that's inadmissible. This is something that comes directly from them.
And also, I mean, you know, one of the thing the press is supposed to do is keep an eye on government officials like judges and to see that they're acting fairly and apply public scrutiny. And suppose he's favoring wildly one side or the other in responding to these questions. I mean, that would be significant news. But we have no way of reporting it, and I just think it's wrong.
ZAHN: Very quickly, in closing, any predictions to make for next week, when we might see a verdict come down, given what happened today?
TOOBIN: I think, you know, a bunch of questions usually signals that they are moving towards the end. So I would say by the middle of the week. If there's not a verdict, it would suggest that there's some real trouble there, and then you start thinking about a hung jury, but not yet.
ZAHN: So why don't you pick up the phone right now and give Judge Melville a call? See if you can get some of those questions answered for us.
TOOBIN: I'm interested in staying out of prison myself. So...
(CROSSTALK)
ZAHN: Yes, I bet so. Thanks, Jeffrey. Appreciate your dropping by.
If there is no verdict yet on the charges, there is a verdict on this, his finances. Whether or not he gets sent up the river, Michael Jackson is almost certainly up the creek.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): He may be the most famous entertainer to ever stand trial on felony charges, but being this famous also comes with a price tag, and in Michael Jackson's case, it's a hefty one.
It's no secret the self-proclaimed King of Pop has a pension for the finer things, like not waiting in airport lines, from routinely booking $50,000 charter jet flights on impulse, even once chartering a smaller jet for friend comedian Chris tucker to the tune of $40,000. It costs Jackson $4 million a year just to maintain his 2,800-acre Neverland ranch. That's not including taxes.
Martin Bashir's documentary revealed shopping sprees that averaged tens of thousands of dollars. When he's not at home, hotel suites at $10,000 a night. It's a lofty running tab.
The question is, can he afford it? He's reported to have borrowed $200 million, using his half ownership of the rights to Beatles and Elvis recordings as collateral.
BOORSTIN: In this trial, it was estimated that Michael Jackson was spending about $20 million a year more than he was bringing in.
ZAHN: Over the course of his career, Jackson has made more than half a billion dollars, building his fortune in the '80s with the release of the album "Thriller" and signing a $65 million 1991 recording deal with Sony.
But over the last ten years, Jackson's record sales have taken a hit, and so has his bank account. Jackson's criminal trial has given us an all-access pass to the singer's dwindling finances, and it looks like this big spender is in serious debt.
BOORSTIN: The average American has almost $10,000 just in credit card debt. So it's not that unusual that Michael Jackson would take out $200 million of debt at a bank. You know, it's a different scale, for certain, but you know, he's living a bigger lifestyle than the average American.
ZAHN: But living large and mounting legal bills have saddled Jackson with a personal debt of $270 million, according to trial testimony. He owes a lot of money to a lot of people.
BOORSTIN: He has his divorce settlement with his second wife, which will cost him about $10 million. And he had a settlement with a molestation case over ten years ago which will cost him about $15 million.
ZAHN: Jackson may have to sell his 50 percent share of Sony/ATV Music Publishing, which would mean giving up any rights to his Beatles and Elvis libraries. But if he sells that, he's buying a tax bill that will cost him in the hundreds of millions of dollars. For the embattled pop star who lives on a scale beyond most ordinary mortals, the future doesn't look bright. The jury is still out. (END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Still to come tonight, how far the Army is going for a few good recruits. And where are the young people who are signing up coming from?
And a little bit later on, how well is the FBI protecting the country from terrorism?
A break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: The U.S. military said today that five marines were killed yesterday in a roadside bombing during combat operations in Iraq. Days like this are making an already difficult task even harder for the Army and the Marines recruiting new troops.
Here's Jamie McIntyre.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JAMIE MCINTYRE, CNN SENIOR PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Despite the Army's recruiting woes, it can still find tens of thousands of young people willing to sign up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's been in my blood for a very long time. And it's tradition. And I just want to be patriotic, pretty much.
MCINTYRE: Eighteen-year-old Amanda McArthur (ph) followed her father's footsteps, right into this recruiting station in Stockbridge, Georgia. But Sergeant Gregory Davis admits the Army is a tough sell with a war raging.
SGT. 1ST CLASS GREGORY DAVIS, RECRUITER, U.S. ARMY: It's a little more difficult to talk to some of the kids now.
MCINTYRE: Sergeant Davis has his work cut out for him. If the Army's going to make its year-end goal of 80,000 recruits by September 30th, recruiters across the country will have to bring in as many fresh troops over the next four months as they did over the last eight.
Where will they come from? This map shows the Army's success rate so far. Green areas have high rates of signing up. Red areas are low. And if you look at the greenest areas, you'll notice something interesting: Four of the five are near big Army bases.
So Amanda McArthur (ph) is an example of what the Army concludes is one of the biggest factors influencing recruits: being from a military family or living near a military town.
And then there is that money for college and a chance for an exciting career.
DAVIS: In this area, the kids are really interested in the training. In particular, they want to fly helicopters, or they want to do special forces, or something where there's plenty of adventure for them.
MCINTYRE (on camera): The Army knows money is a lure. It increased bonuses to as much as $20,000 as recruiting got tougher, and it's considering bonuses of up to $40,000 for some specialties. But the Army claims its own analysis refutes who some critics claim, that it's drawing disproportionately from poorer Americans, those desperate for jobs.
(voice-over): And experts agree, money is rarely the sole deciding factor.
JAMES CARAFANO, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: People serve because they want to serve, but economics is part of the decision of whether they come in and where they're going. You don't have to be poor to see the attractiveness of being in the military.
MCINTYRE: In fact, the latest Army statistics from 2004 show that, at least racially, the Army is more closely reflecting the larger society.
For instance, African-Americans, who used to be over-represented in the army at 22 percent of the force, now make up closer to 16 percent, roughly the same percentage they are of the U.S. population.
More women are signing up at Sergeant Davis's suburban Atlanta recruiting station, but nationwide, the percentage of women enlisting has dropped. And while it used to be the Army was seen as a great color-blind job opportunities for minorities, recruiters say increasingly politics is a consideration.
DAVIS: A lot of people in that area just don't really support who we have as a president, and they say that they're not signing up because of who is in office.
MCINTYRE: But there's no secret about the biggest obstacle recruiters have to overcome. It's not the reluctance of recruits, but of their parents. So the Army's latest ad campaign is aimed directly at them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, dad, there's something I need to tell you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How much is this going to cost me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, it's not like that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is this the motorcycle thing again?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's not the motorcycle. It's about what you said the other day. About doing something for myself. Maybe something important.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, go ahead. DAVIS: So, I say well ma'am, your son or daughter can get killed right out there in the streets of Atlanta, and you know, when you compare the numbers of the people that have died as a result of combat, compared to the numbers that die here in the metro Atlanta area, I don't -- would you think there was more war going on here.
MCINTYRE: Sergeant Davis says the number one question asked by potential recruits is, "Will I go to war?" His answer, "There's a 50/50 chance."
Jamie McIntyre, CNN, the Pentagon.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And still to come tonight, a conversation with author Anna Quindlen. What is it like to be a parent, and a kid in the age of great expectations?
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Well, certainly not every commencement speech leads to a book, but when you're an author, and you've sold a lot of books before, stranger things could happen.
Anna Quindlen's new book, "Being Perfect," came out of a commencement speech she wrote. It's about expectations and becoming the person you want to be. Aaron talked with her the other day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AARON BROWN, HOST: You're writing a lot -- you've always written a lot about parenting and kids. Let's talk, some, about parenting and kids. Parenting hasn't changed, but parents have had to change by circumstances. Do you think -- do you think parents are happy these days with the way they do their work?
ANNA QUINDLEN, AUTHOR, "BEING PERFECT": No, I think parents are incredibly stressed out. I mean, I just wrote a column a couple months ago for "Newsweek," called "The Good Enough Mother," about being forgiving with yourself; about having a good time, and not worrying too much about whether they're in enough soccer leagues, or they have the right tutor, or that kind of thing.
BROWN: Do you think kids are happy?
QUINDLEN: I think some kids are, but I think kids are incredibly stressed out. I mean, I think they feel like there's these great expectations. I mean, I remember one of mine having a major meltdown in high school, and saying to me, "What is the point of the exercise?"
I think it was when the college thing was looming, and I said, "We just want you to be happy," and he slammed his fist down on the table, and said, "Mom, none of this has anything to do with happiness." And boy was he right. BROWN: If kids are stressed out it's because parents are stressing them out? That their expectations -- the expectations of parents stressing them out?
QUINDLEN: Partly parents. Some of them feel it at school. Some of them just feel this societal psych-guise. That it's not enough, anymore, to do things. You have to be the biggest, the best, the most famous -- fame is a huge part of their world view, because it's fame that they see as an end in itself for so many people. And it hangs heavy over some of them, I think.
BROWN: How do you, on the one hand -- as you look back on some of this you want your kid to reach their potential, their full potential, whatever that is. That is not an unreasonable expectation, and that's actually, I think, a great thing for a parent to encourage: be the best you can be at whatever that is -- without stressing them out in the process?
QUINDLEN: Well, sometimes the oversight means that they're not reaching their full potential, because you're trying to mold them into some generally-accepted principle of the good kid. Sometimes, not taking into account who the real kid really is. I remember when my kids went and did that whole nursery school thing, and there was a line on the form that said, "separates easily." Kids, I think, are pretty good at separating easily. Parents are terrible at separating easily.
And I think sometimes, particularly when they get to be teenagers, you have to draw that line between moving forward and stepping back. And sometimes, I think, stepping back is the part we're not getting.
BROWN: One of the things that you are asked to do, and I honestly, I think you get to do this -- a great, fun thing to do, is you talk -- you do commencement speeches.
QUINDLEN: Right.
BROWN: A few times a year. What are you going to say this year to kids? What's rumbling around in your brain this year?
QUINDLEN: Well, actually, I've just finished writing one, and I'm going to talk about courage. About how fear is really one of the great destroyers in our society, right now.
Fear of people who are different than we are. Fear of stepping outside of the box. Fear of making people angry. It's fear that's paralyzed, our entire political process. You know, we have a bunch of people who are trying to be all-things to all-people, which really means that they wind up being nothing at all. And, you know, in both the Old and the New Testament, there are all kinds of places where someone says, "Fear not," or, "Be not afraid." And that's what I'm going to say to them.
BROWN: Would you have any interest, other than the fact you could be a kid again, being a kid again in these times? QUINDLEN: Not even in my own times. I have to say, I would never -- I mean, I look at my daughter sometimes, and the only time it's really hard for me to lay down the law with her is when I'm empathizing. And boy, I'm doing that a lot, thinking, I remember that. Oh, Lord, let it never happen again. You know?
BROWN: The book is a great, fun -- and for those of us who parent -- interesting read, and you're a great, fun and interesting person. It's always nice to see you.
QUINDLEN: Thanks.
BROWN: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And always honest to boot.
Straight ahead, is the Terminator about to detonate a political bombshell in California? The headlines next, because this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: And we're back. Just about 15 minutes before the hour. Time to check back in with Erica Hill in Atlanta. Could you see the steam in the air tonight in New York City?
HILL: I'm telling you, you must have some of the steam that we have here in Atlanta. It's not pleasant.
ZAHN: No, it's awful out there.
HILL: No. Well, stay in the air conditioning, Paula.
ZAHN: I'm enjoying this, my little cocoon here this evening.
HILL: There you go.
We start off tonight in California where Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger must decide by Monday whether to call for a special election in November. Voters would decide on three ballot measures: they would change get tenure, the way electoral districts are drawn and one would crack down on state spending. Those are all issues Schwarzenegger calls vital to California's future.
A deadly accident this morning just outside of New York City. An oil tanker carrying 10,000 gallons of home heating oil collided with a dump truck on Long Island. The fuel exploded, igniting several other vehicles. At least four people were killed.
Denise Brown became a public figure a decade ago when her sister, Nicole Brown Simpson was murdered and O.J. Simpson was put on trial. Tonight, her story is the focus of CNN's anniversary series, "Then and Now."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN (voice-over): As the outspoken sister of Nicole Brown Simpson, Denise Brown was one of the first to talk about the other side of football hero O.J. Simpson. Brown's emotional testimony early in Simpson's trial was unforgettable.
DENISE BROWN, SISTER OF NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON: Picked her up and threw her out of the house. She ended up on her -- she ended up falling.
ZAHN: After the trial, Brown became an advocate against domestic violence. She currently runs the Nicole Brown Charitable Foundation, which helps battered women and their children.
BROWN: Educating myself and starting to travel, I learned about domestic violence. I learned what my sister was going through.
ZAHN: Brown maintains a relationship with Nicole's children, Sydney and Justin, who live in Florida with their father. But she doesn't see or talk with O.J.
BROWN: I can't stand the ground he walks on. I believe he murdered my sister. And I will always think that.
ZAHN: Brown still wears the silver cross that belonged to her sister.
BROWN: She's always missed, you know. Every single day, there's not a day that goes by that I don't think about her.
ZAHN: And she marks every anniversary of Nicole's death with a candlelight vigil.
BROWN: I just don't want another person to suffer something like we did. And I think that's what drives me. And I know Nicole's with me.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: The president visited a state-of-the-art Situation Room today. It's designed to bring together people and information from the CIA, FBI, Homeland Security and so on. Critics, though, have their doubt about whether a new location can actually change what they say are old, bad habits, namely that agencies don't like sharing intelligence and still aren't very good at analyzing intelligence.
Those problems were front and center in a report from the Justice Department's inspector general about 9/11 and missed opportunities in advance of that catastrophic day. It's a year old, but it's come to light now in connection with the case of Zacarias Moussaoui. So, has anything changed? Reporting for us tonight, Kelli Arena.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLI ARENA, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Maureen Baginski represents the new, improved FBI.
MAUREEN BAGINSKI, FBI INTELLIGENCE DIRECTORATE: Every day, my job is to give the FBI its intelligence capability, plain and simple.
ARENA: She's head of the bureau's new Directorate of Intelligence. Getting the right intelligence to the right agents in the field is crucial to the FBI's primary mission since September 11th -- preventing terror attacks.
And sharing that information with other agencies is just as important, something that simply did not happen before.
One example cited in the recently released inspector general's report, the CIA knew two suspected terrorists who became 9/11 hijackers had come into the United States but didn't tell the FBI until just before they attacked. Now, FBI and CIA agents work side by side in the new National Counterterrorism Center.
BAGINSKI: People work together, shoulder to shoulder every day, share threat information, and are very, very focused on the sum total of their parts being greater than any of the individual pieces.
ARENA: Jamie Gorelick, a former 9/11 commissioner, says it's not enough. Turf battles and communication breakdowns still exist.
JAMIE GORELICK, FORMER 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Within the FBI and the CIA, you have very strong, strong cultures, and no matter how many legal walls you break down, and no matter how many mandates you announce, you still need to work with the people who make up an organization, to have them work effectively.
ARENA: Another problem, says Gorelick, the FBI's failure to upgrade its computer case management system.
GORELICK: We've been taken aback, I think, by the failure of the technology, the big technology project that was supposed to knit the FBI together and allow sharing of information.
ARENA: And while the FBI is putting out more intelligence, is it better intelligence?
JOHN GANNON, FORMER DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE COUNCIL: Everybody's producing, but I think there's actually less qualitative analysis taking place.
BAGINSKI: My response is that probably we could pick a product from any intelligence community organization and find fault with it. We are working very hard on the quality, but I would put the quality of our reporting against pretty much anybody's reporting.
ARENA: Security experts say there doesn't seem to be any real momentum to dismantle the FBI. It's simply an effort by those seeking faster reform to keep the heat on.
RICHARD FALKENRATH, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Progress is too slow for everybody. Everyone would like this to be done quicker, but this is a very large and complex organization, and change comes slowly for it.
ARENA: The FBI's Baginski and her colleagues are aware of the stakes.
BAGINSKI: It's a solemn trust, and I take it very, very seriously.
ARENA: There is even more scrutiny ahead. A major evaluation is expected in September, a little more than a year after the 9/11 Commission's report.
Kelli Arena, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And Richard Ben-Veniste served on that 9/11 Commission. Fair to say he's been highly critical at times of both the administration's policy and the FBI's handling of intelligence. I spoke with him a little bit earlier this evening.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: Let's talk about what is to be learned from some of these stinging new details in the report. The FBI would argue that, in fact, you see an increased intelligence capability on its part, that its technology is improved. Do you give the FBI credit for improving anything in the aftermath of 9/11?
RICHARD BEN-VENISTE, FORMER 9/11 COMMISSIONER: Well, the improvements, Paula, have been slow in coming. Unfortunately, there is much more to do in terms of communications within the FBI itself, in hiring the kinds of people who can properly analyze and collect information on the potential terrorist threat within the United States. That is unfortunate. Their information technology has been a disaster. Hundreds of millions of dollars wasted so far, and precious time wasted. So there is very much to do, and it begins to try the patience of some who are overseeing the process.
ZAHN: Do you not think we're safer today than we were in the days leading up to September 11th, 2001?
BEN-VENISTE: Well, you know, that's a difficult question. I think domestically, we are far more aware and far more prepared to deal with a terrorist threat than we were then. Unfortunately, as the CIA analysis has shown, we are creating terrorists at a rate of far beyond our ability to kill terrorists. So the simple math is not good.
One of the things the 9/11 Commission recommended had to do with human rights, and America's diplomatic and other efforts throughout the world, to combat the attraction of fundamentalist terrorism in Muslim countries. And here, we have led with our chin instead of with our heart and our soul. We have shown the world a very unfortunate picture, not representative and certainly, in my view, an un-American portrait of abuses, torture.
ZAHN: You're not suggesting that this administration isn't serious about this war on terrorism, are you?
BEN-VENISTE: I'm -- I am suggesting that there has been a very substantial amount of activity, some of which has made us safer, some of which has shown to be extraordinarily wasteful.
ZAHN: What is it that the commission plans to do with this report by the inspectors general?
BEN-VENISTE: Paula, the 9/11 Commission members, the 10 of us acting as private citizens, concerned private citizens, are holding a series of hearings this summer. We've already had one last week. We'll have another one Monday, to evaluate the kind of progress or lack of progress on the recommendations which we made over the past year, and so we will also issue a report card this coming September.
ZAHN: Thank you so much for your time. Always good to have you with us on the air. Appreciate it.
BEN-VENISTE: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ZAHN: And we'll be back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ZAHN: Have a great weekend, everybody.
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