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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Behind the Scenes with Saddam; Dealing with Credit Card Theft; An Interview with Sandra Block; Jurors Deadlocked in Klansman Trial

Aired June 20, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AARON BROWN, HOST "NEWSNIGHT": Good evening again.
Imagine this: you're with your grandkids in the living room right next to the microwave fireplace and your granddaughter turns to you and says tell us about the old days, Grandpa, you know back when people used cash? Perhaps by then we'll know how to get along without it. For now, the convenience of using plastic comes at a cost.

Today, a company you've probably haven't heard of took the blame for a security breach that allowed hackers to get their hands on at least 200,000 credit card records. Tonight, we'll pinpoint where your data is vulnerable every time your credit card is swiped.

We begin, though, with what happened this time, and CNN's Allan Chernoff.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALLAN CHERNOFF: The data was ripe for plucking. On May 22nd, hackers struck. CardSystems Solutions says they downloaded data files of about 200,000 cards, including 68,000 MasterCards, about 100,000 Visa cards, and about 30,000 other cards, including American Express. The hackers picked up not only credit card numbers, but also card- holder names, and security codes, imprinted on the back of a card. All the data is encoded in the magnetic bar strip that sends information when we swipe at the store. Card Systems had a total of 40 million cards in its computer. The company, along with the FBI, is still trying to figure out exactly how many accounts the hackers accessed. It may be well above 200,000. MasterCard said it first noticed a wave fraudulent activity back in April. It contacted one of its member banks and together they traced the problem to CardSystems Solutions.

ED MIREZWINKSI, U.S. PUBLIC INTEREST RESEARCH GROUP: It's unbelievable that the third party processor was holding on to customer information. The banks made it clear that this company was a processor, that information wasn't supposed to stay there. The company decided, on its own volition, we're going to keep information.

CHERNOFF: CardSystems had been holding credit card data in its computer in violation of MasterCard and Visa association guidelines. CardSystems says it was conducting a research project, to learn why some card transactions fail to get approval.

"We were out of compliance, and we recognize that file was out of compliance with the association rules," the company told CNN. Now, credit card numbers are for sale on the Internet, perhaps the same numbers taken from CardSystems.

How do you know if your card is among the 40 million? You probably won't find out. Leading credit card issuing banks say they plan to contact consumers only if they notice suspicious activity on the card.

AVIVA LITAN, GARTNER, INC.: Consumers basically have no control over how their data is used, abused, disclosed, and sold. Consumers don't even have a right to find out if their card was one of those cards that were stolen, and so consumers are really at a loss for what to do.

CHERNOFF: Customer service often is not much help, either. I called the bank that issued one of my credit cards, and was told, it wasn't us. When I told the agent it could have happened to a cardholder from any bank, he put me on hold and wouldn't you know, the song "Don't Worry, Be Happy" was playing. When the agent returned he said, there's no way to know unless there's suspicious activity on your card.

To protect your home and possessions you can buy locks and a security system, but with credit cards, the best you can do is keep your number to yourself, and watch for evidence of a crime by closely checking your statement.

Allan Chernoff, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Several hundred firms do what CardSystems Solution does. They're part of a chain of companies in computers and procedures designed to make shopping with a credit card look easy, even if it's neither easy nor simple, nor, as it turns out, foolproof.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(on camera): When you hand over that credit card, it triggers an electronic chain reaction of information in which security is supposed to be the essential element. Supposed to be.

ADAM FRISCH, ANALYST, UBS: I would say that the potential for fraud is viable across the entire length of the transaction, but I would say that, along the lines of where it is highest, I would say it is with the processing company like we saw last week.

BROWN: Here's what happens when you buy anything with a credit card. Buried in the magnetic strip of your credit card is information that is not directly sent to either MasterCard or Visa once you pay for something. It is sent to a third-party first, a processing company, whose computers track the account numbers and determine where the information goes next.

That electronic message is then routed to Visa or MasterCard, for instance. Then the bank authorizing your credit card gets another electronic calling card. Another processing company, this one hired by the bank, confirms the account, and authorizes payment, or doesn't, and it's all supposed to happen very quickly, within 10 or 20 seconds if things go smoothly.

TOM ARNOLD, PARTNER, PAYMENT SOFTWARE CO, INC.: Millions of these transactions occur every day, actually every minute or every hour, and they're the foundation of our economy.

BROWN: The card processing companies -- and there are hundreds of them -- are only supposed to keep individual credit card data as long as may be necessary to resolve a potential dispute.

MARC ROTENBERG, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFORMATION CENTER: The best practices here involve getting rid of the information as quickly as possible, because all organizations that deal with complex information systems understand that the longer you retain information, the greater the risk of that someone might access it or misuse it.

BROWN: But there are no federal laws that require it, only business regulations that companies can, if they choose to, ignore.

FRISCH: There is no regulation for these processing companies unless they're directly hired by the acquiring bank or they actually own a bank themselves. So the number of processors actually falling into this category are few and far between.

BROWN: And neither the big credit card companies nor the big banks want any new laws.

ROTENBERG: There are a lot of businesses that are pushing against stronger privacy safeguards, but I think that is a very short- sighted position. I mean, it is not difficult to understand why it is that we need stronger privacy protections right now. Identity theft has become the number one crime in the United States. Federal Trade Commission estimates an annual cost of over $50 billion and that number is increasing, which means that unless some very strong action is taken soon, we are going to see even more of this in the future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (on camera): Now, it is highly possible, even probable, that these data thefts and data losses that we've been telling you about for the last couple of months have, in fact, been going on for years. It's just that no one ever bothered to tell you. They didn't have to. No federal law required it, so your data could have been lost, stolen, passed around and no one was required to tell you.

Two states, Illinois and California, now require disclosure, California taking the lead, after what you might call a legislative wake-up call. Reporting for us tonight, Peter Viles.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The great speaker of the California state assembly, Herb Wesson. PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: When Herb Wesson was speaker of the California assembly, preventing I.D. theft was not always a top priority.

HERB WESSON, FMR. SPEAKER, CALIF. ASSEMBLY: We had so many things going on at that time. We had a budget shortfall of $38 billion, so, I was focusing my energies as the speaker of the house on doing some of the other things.

VILES: There was a bill to protect consumers. Joe Simitian was pushing it.

JOE SIMITIAN, CALIFORNIA STATE SENATOR: If your information has been compromised as a result of a security breach, if there's been a database compromise, then the folks who hold your information have the obligation to tell you your information is no longer safe and secure.

VILES: But as Wesson remembers it, California's high-tech lobby was against it, and the bill was as good as dead.

WESSON: The bill was, like, in a graveyard. It was going absolutely nowhere.

VILES: But then something odd happened. Someone hacked into the state employee database, and then two months later, every state lawmaker got a letter that said, oh, by the way, your personal information was in that database.

WESSON: What I thought about -- suppose it was my brother. Suppose it was you. Suppose it was my Aunt Mary. I thought about them, and I think other members of the legislature thought about them.

VILES: Suddenly, I.D. theft was personal.

SIMITIAN: This was no longer an academic debate. This was no longer some intellectual exercise. This was a personal experience for every member of the California state legislature who not only had their information compromised, but didn't really know about it for two months after the incident occurred.

VILES: Lawmakers were so upset they never even debated the bill. They passed it by unanimous consent. The law only covers California consumers but big companies in effect have no choice. If you're going to tell Californians you lost their data you pretty much have to tell everyone else, too.

CHRIS HOOFNAGLE, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFO CTR.: The California law has changed the debate nationally, because now consumers understand whether or not their data are secure in the hands of companies and governments, and unfortunately what we've learned is that our data is not very secure.

VILES: ... some fear that Congress will actually try to weaken the California law. From California, Herb Wesson has a message for Congress...

WESSON: All I would say to them is just: Let your information be compromised one day and let's see if you feel the same way.

VILES: There's a message here for hackers, too. If you're out there stealing data, steer clear of the politicians.

Peter Viles for CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Sandra Block joins us now. She writes about personal finance for "USA Today." Just, as a realistic matter if you believe in the law of averages, do you assume that just about everybody's data has, at one point or another, been stolen or lost somewhere along the way?

SANDRA BLOCK, "USA TODAY": I think that's a good guess to make and certainly a safe guess to make and if you just start talking to people on the bus, or your friends and your family. You don't have to talk to very many to find someone who's been victimized, if you have not been victimized yourself.

BROWN: Right. I mean, I know -- I mentioned this the other night on the program -- I know that I've hit the trifecta in the last 60 days. That in three different -- now it doesn't mean it's been used nefariously, but it does mean it's been lost.

You wrote today about credit freezes. What's a credit freeze and how does that fit in to all this?

BLOCK: Well, a credit freeze basically says that when you put a freeze on your credit report, no one can look at your credit reports. If no one can look at your credit reports, it would be almost impossible for a criminal to set up a fraudulent account in your name because no lender or company wants to lend money without first checking you out and finding out what kind of risk you are.

So, if you freeze your credit reports you may not prevent somebody from buying stuff with a stolen credit card, but you will prevent them from some of the more nefarious identity theft schemes: setting up fake accounts, using your name and your information to buy a home or a car or commit a crime or all kinds of terrible things.

BROWN: Why are cell phones -- suddenly getting cell phones such a popular way to misuse data?

BLOCK: I don't know, but it is one of the most frequent signs. I think it's because they're easily sold. They'll get a bunch of cell phone subscriptions and then resell them and that's really the key to a lot of these schemes, is recycling.

You know, they don't want to just buy one thing or use a card once. They want to resell it, reuse it as many times as they can and I think cell phones give some opportunities to do that.

BROWN: Of the possible choices, assuming you can't barter cows or something with the telephone company, credit cards, debit cards, and checks -- is any one more safe than the other? BLOCK: Well, if you talk to a lot of identity theft experts and consumer groups, they vote for credit cards. Because, with a credit card you can never be held liable for more than $50 of fraudulent purchases and most credit card companies won't even hold you liable for that.

Now, debit cards do have some protections, as well, but the problem with the debit card is if somebody gets one they can clean out your bank account and then it's incumbent on you to convince the bank or the lender that the money was stolen and to restore it. And in the meantime, your checks could be bouncing all over the place.

With a credit card, if you see a fraudulent charge you can simply refuse to pay it. So, if you talk to a lot of consumer groups they sort of, at least at this point, think credit cards offer better protections. The debit card issue is -- certainly take issue with that.

BROWN: One or two other quick ones: If you download credit card information, it's a popular productivity software, a lot of people do, if you do that every couple days or every week or so -- protection?

BLOCK: It is protection and I think it's very smart because I do that. Because then you can look and check all the purchases on your credit card. You don't have to wait until you get your monthly statement to find out that somebody has used your credit card to buy a Caribbean cruise or something like that. So, I think the online accounts do allow you to monitor your accounts much more carefully than just relying on the mail.

BROWN: And would you agree that if someone misuses your personal credit information in a big way, or maybe not even a big way, and it ends up in your credit report you're dead, basically, because no one really -- theirs no-- one has any interest, there's no money to be made in cleaning up your record.

BLOCK: No. And I think that's why people have to keep such meticulous files whenever they've been victimized, because it is a real long slog to get that information cleaned up.

But I think that they -- lawmakers and regulators are paying a lot more attention to this and I think that consumers are going to get more powers to challenger errors in credit reports. And the fact is, they're getting the credit reports a lot more frequently and that empowers them to at least know when there's a mistake, instead of waiting until they go get a home mortgage and find out they don't qualify.

BROWN: I made 21 phone calls, 12 e-mails and one police report on a cell phone bill. Thanks for joining us.

BLOCK: Thank you.

BROWN: Thank you. Sandra Block of "Usa Today."

Why credit card companies and banks are fighting regulation that could protect you. We'll have that story coming up.

First, at about a quarter past the hour, time for some of the other stories that made news today.

Erica Hill joins us from Atlanta. Erica, good evening to you.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good evening to you.

In downtown Seattle a man is dead after carrying what appeared to be a grenade into a federal courthouse. Now, he entered the lobby just before noon shouting threats and wearing a backpack strapped to his chest. He allegedly began inching his way past a security screening station when police told him to stop, he showed a grenade- like device and they shot and killed him. The device did prove not to be active. The FBI is investigating.

Well it may be 200 years less than his prosecutors asked for, but some say based on his age and poor health, it's basically a life sentence. Former Adelphia CEO John Rigas, who is 80, was sentenced to 15 years in prison for his role in the multi-billion dollar fraud that led to the cable company's collapse.

Now, his son Timothy, the company's former CFO, was sentenced to 20 years. Both were ordered to surrender September 19th. Another son Michael will be re-tried in October.

Cuban exile Luis Posada Carriles will not be able to move his request for asylum from Texas to Florida. That ruling coming from an immigration judge today. Posada, a former CIA operative and longtime foe of Fidel Castro, is wanted in Venezuela for the 1976 bombing of a Cuban airliner. You may recall he was arrested last month in Miami and moved to Texas after it was found he'd illegally crossed the border there. His bail hearing is set for Friday.

And Aaron, you may know this, but I'm not sure if our viewers do: Starting today, you can go online to see more video of the day's news. You'll find it at CNN.com. Just click on the video link. Click on watch, there and you can check out clips like this.

You can share them with your friends. The best part of all of this, it is free. Which is not easy to find these days.

BROWN: No, it's not. We're going to start charging for the program, though.

HILL: Yes. That's the tradeoff.

BROWN: Thank you, Erica. We'll see you in about a half an hour. I didn't know that.

Straight ahead on NEWSNIGHT: More on identity theft and the people who are trying to stop Congress from protecting your personal data.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're fighting, in this whole arena, big interests out there who make a lot of money on these databases.

BROWN (voice-over): And those big interests are hiring big time lobbyists. Their job, blocking new laws that would safeguard your most personal information.

A jury in Mississippi now holding history in its hands: We'll take you back to the place where it all began.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I really don't believe that there's been a single day in four years that I haven't thought about this case.

JEB BUSH, GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: What I'm asking for is that the state attorney, based on this new information, review that information so that there can be closure.

BROWN: Florida's governor injects himself back into the Terri Schiavo controversy. But why? And why now?

SEAN O'SHEA, SADDAM'S PRISON GUARD: So we gave him the Cheetos and he really liked them. He would always ask for them and we ran out of Cheetos, so we got him Doritos and that was just it, Doritos were his favorite.

BROWN: He is Saddam Hussein: Up close and personal through the eyes of his American guards.

From New York and around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: New York City on a beautiful, kind of cool night. Going to get warm in the city as summer comes tomorrow.

A couple of years back, there was a battle over medical records, when hospitals could give them out and how much control you had over your hospital records, and so on. Hospitals argued that sometimes they have to give out your personal information even without your authority -- say, you're unconscious.

We mention that as a way of telling you that there are all manner of businesses resisting new laws regulating how they deal with your sensitive information. Banks resist, credit card companies do, so do others. Indeed, there's a whole industry, it seems, making sure your data is freely available.

Here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Never shy about giving reporters a saucy quote, Senator Chuck Schumer held a press conference just before a packed Senate hearing on identity theft. The Democrat had a captive audience when he took aim at Citigroup, under fire for a massive data security breach.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: You've got to treat this information with the value that it has to the thieves. And if you just simply treat it like, you know, a crate of oranges, it's not good enough.

HENRY: But this guy taking notes is not a journalist. He's Jimmy Ryan, a high-powered and high-paid lobbyist for Citigroup, who's keeping close tabs on Schumer's push for reform.

Citigroup is dealing with a mess. A box of computer tapes containing information on 3.9 million customers was lost by United Parcel Service. The tapes contain names, Social Security numbers and account numbers, which thieves could use to steal identities and open new lines of credit.

Citigroup says there's no evidence anyone's identity has been stolen. But that hasn't stopped several lawmakers from calling for a crackdown on companies that handle your personal and financial data.

SCHUMER: What we've learned from what happened to Citigroup is that we need standards when that information is transported.

HENRY: This hearing was packed with lobbyists from across corporate America. The banking, credit, retail, insurance and even medical industries. Schumer's legislation targets all of them, by establishing minimum security standards, such as encryption, for handling sensitive data.

Violators would face fines of up to $1,000 per consumer affected. So a company that loses as much data as Citigroup could be on the hook for a penalty of up to $3.9 billion, which is why Ryan was keeping such a close eye on the hearing.

In one of the nearly two dozen other legislative solutions being floated, Republican Congressman Cliff Stearns has proposed incentives for companies to adopt new security technologies. At this hearing, Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein railed at Citigroup as Ryan looked on, and she pushed legislation requiring companies to notify consumers whose information has been breached.

SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: California passed a law having to do with this. The banks and insurance companies supported it. Then when I tried to do it here, the same law, they came back and opposed it, and killed it. So we're fighting in this whole arena big interests out there who make a lot of money on these databases.

HENRY: Consumer advocates charge that companies like Citigroup are trying to make sure any legislation passed on the national level is toothless.

CHRIS HOOFNAGLE, ELECTRONIC PRIVACY INFO CENTER: The retailers and the banks are making a run on Washington, D.C., and they're trying to pass a law that's much weaker than the California law. And they also want to supersede the California law, so that they won't have to give notice all the time.

HENRY: Ryan is not authorized to speak on camera, but Citigroup officials reject claims they're not embracing reform, telling CNN in a written statement: "Citigroup has been working with Congress and the administration on the need for federal data security legislation. We share the senators' concerns about security and privacy, and we are taking numerous steps to protect client data, including expanded use of secure electronic transmission whenever possible."

But with so many lobbyists working the issue, the early betting is that any final legislation is likely to be months away, and likely to be a watered-down version of reform.

Ed Henry, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Surprised to hear that.

Still ahead on the program tonight, is an elderly Klansman responsible for three murders that awakened the conscience of the country? Forty years later, as the jury deliberates, we'll revisit the town where the murders happened.

Also tonight, Saddam Hussein -- Doritos or Froot Loops? His jailers tell all. So do we. Because this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In Philadelphia, Mississippi 80-year-old Klansman and part-time preacher Edgar Ray Killen slept through much of the closing arguments in his murder trial today. But the 12 men and women on the jury were very much awake as the attorney general asked them to rewrite history in the 1964 murders of three civil rights workers there.

Two hours later, just two hours, they told the judge they were already deadlocked, 6-6. The judge ordered them to deliberate a little more tomorrow, which marks the 41st anniversary of the killings. CNN's Candy Crowley returned to the scene of the crime with a reporter who was there when it happened.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CANDY CROWLEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Now is this the road where they drove out of town?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It's the state highway 19.

CROWLEY (on camera): Even now in broad daylight, 41-years later, the trek from Philadelphia, Mississippi to neighboring Meridien is an uneasy ride.

Have you ever made this trip without thinking about it?

STANLEY DEARMAN, THE NESHOBA DEMOCRAT: No, no. Never have. And I made this trip at least once or twice a week to Meridian.

CROWLEY: Stanley Dearman was a 31-year old reporter when he was assigned the story of his life. Dateline Philadelphia, June 1964, three civil rights workers were tailed by the KKK down this two lane stretch of Mississippi.

DEARMAN: Right here, this -- at this store, there was a car. Yes, another one down here. I think maybe there were like three cars full of Klansmen.

CROWLEY (on camera): And how high did they get up?

DEARMAN: Over 100 miles an hour.

CROWLEY: Oh, man.

(voice-over): Sometimes reporters grab stories. And sometimes stories grab reporters. This is one of those. It is about three young men, Andrew Goodman and Michael Schwerner of New York, James Cheney of Meridian, who were to spend the summer in Mississippi, registering blacks to vote. And it is about the local newsman who covered their disappearance.

DEARMAN: This case, it worked on me a long time. I really don't believe that there's been a single day in 40 years that I haven't thought about this case.

CROWLEY: It cannot be history until you stop living it. And this story still moves inside Stanley Dearman, still breathes in Philadelphia, Mississippi. It is alive in a boarded up old building, the old jail. This is where the three civil rights workers were taken after Philadelphia deputy sheriff Cecil Price picked them up for allegedly speeding. It was the afternoon of June 21st. They were held until late that night, long enough for the Klan to get into position.

DEARMAN: And this is where they had their last meal, this jail. They were released. And Cecil Price, the deputy, told them to get out and Showa (ph) County.

CROWLEY (on camera): And they took off?

DEARMAN: Took off.

CROWLEY (voice-over): A KKK informant and an FBI investigation would put the story together. Just outside town, the three were chased off the road, forced into Klan cars, driven up this hill.

DEARMAN: Can you imagine the terror they felt? This is it. This is -- at this fork in the road.

CROWLEY: This is where they died. The bodies were found 44 days later buried on private property, miles away. But they were shot dead here at a dusty turnaround in the middle of nowhere.

(on camera): And why did they bring them here, because it was out of the...

DEARMAN: Killen lived a mile and a half down this road. He knew this place. Killen chose the venue. CROWLEY (voice-over): Edgar Ray Killen has always said he wasn't involved. At the time, the state of Mississippi couldn't, wouldn't, didn't file charges against anyone. With no statute to cover the murders, the federal government charged Killen in 1967 with conspiring to violate the rights of another. He was found not guilty. Of seven men convicted on conspiracy, no one served more than six years.

DEARMAN: And after the federal trial, then people used that to say well, in essence, that's -- we've had justice.

CROWLEY (on camera): But you don't think that?

DEARMAN: No, no. There's a difference between conspiracy and murder.

CROWLEY (voice-over): Dearman moved on from a reporter to editor and publisher of "The Neshoba Democrat". In 1989, he interviewed Caroline Goodman, mother of Andrew, hoping to bring new life to a story a town wanted to forget.

In May of 2000, he wrote an editorial calling for justice.

DEARMAN: Come hell or high water, there needs to be an accounting. It's time.

CROWLEY: January 6 of this year, the state indicted Edgar Ray Killen on three counts of murder.

DEARMAN: I don't know how to describe, but it was a great feeling like a weight being lifted or a cloud moving on.

CROWLEY: Dearman cannot count the number of people he has brought here to the spot where three men, ages 20, 21, and 24 were killed for trying to register black voters. He does remember one person in particular.

DEARMAN: And he looked around. And he said, "But there's nothing here to say what happened." And that's true. And it should -- something should be done about it.

CROWLEY (on camera): You want to put a memorial...

DEARMAN: Yes. Or some kind of (INAUDIBLE) they probably dynamited or do something to it, but...

CROWLEY: Still?

DEARMAN: There are those who would do it.

CROWLEY: So maybe it hasn't changed so much?

DEARMAN: Well, some people haven't changed. And they'll just have to be time when I have to take care of them. But there are a lot of people who have changed. And if it hadn't been for that, for a lot of people, having strong feelings about this, and pushing for an indictment or indictments for justice, it would never take place. And I said this came from within.

CROWLEY (voice-over): The trial of Edgar Ray Killen is scheduled to begin almost 41 years to the date they disappeared. He is the first to be charged with the murders of Andrew Goodman, Michael Schwerner, and James Cheney. But there are others out there.

DEARMAN: There are a number of people in Meridian that in that plan, voted to have Schwerner eliminated. They should be held accountable.

CROWLEY: Stanley Dearman is retired now, but this is his story and it will not let go.

Candy Crowley, CNN, Philadelphia, Mississippi.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And again tonight, the jury has the case, and after two hours of deliberation, says it is deadlocked, 6-6.

Just ahead on the program, investigating the moments after Terri Schiavo collapsed. Is it just procedure, or politics? We'll take a break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Today, Terri Schiavo's cremated remains were interred at a cemetery in Florida, three months after she died. And perhaps you thought the controversy was finally laid to rest following her autopsy report last week. But then Florida's Governor Jeb Bush is not letting go, not quite yet. Taking a page from "CSI: Miami" perhaps, he's now asking for an investigation into how Ms. Schiavo got into a coma in the first place, more than a decade ago. Does he have a case? Or an agenda?

Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Days after ordering a state prosecutor to re-examine what happened the night Terri Schiavo collapsed in 1990, Governor Jeb Bush continues to defend his decision.

GOV. JEB BUSH (R), FLORIDA: I didn't ask him to do this because of -- as a criminal investigation. I asked him to do it to bring closure.

CANDIOTTI: Closure to questions about whether Michael Schiavo called 911 right away, or waited over an hour.

Instead, the governor is opening a heated debate. Is he trying to appease conservatives in case he changes his mind and makes a future run for higher office? "The Miami Herald's" editor doesn't see a political motive on such a dicey issue. TOM FIEDLER, EDITOR, MIAMI HERALD: It says that he means it when he has said publicly that he doesn't have interest in higher office, at least not interest in the immediate future. Because this will do nothing other than complicate any ability to go out there. He would be seen once again as just too closely linked to this story.

CANDIOTTI: One conservative activist, who supports the governor's decision, admits it could backfire among some on the far right.

RANDALL TERRY, SOCIETY FOR TRUTH AND JUSTICE: Some of them will be very happy that he's doing it. Others will say, well, wait a minute, if you suspected a crime, then why didn't you do something earlier?

CANDIOTTI: Why is that question coming now, after an autopsy?

BUSH: It was in sealed records, I believe, from a medical malpractice case at the time, that the EMS folks came to the -- came to their apartment.

CANDIOTTI: But that was not the case. CNN has talked with someone who has seen all documents in the 15-year investigation, and the timeline has never been questioned, nor has it been questioned by the police or medical examiner.

Terri Schiavo's parents point to something her husband told CNN's Larry King in 2003.

MICHAEL SCHIAVO: I'd say about 4:30 in the morning. I was, for some reason, getting out of bed and I heard a thud in the hall. I raced out there and Terri was laying in the hall. I went down to get her, thought maybe, well, she just tripped or whatever. I rolled her over, and she was lifeless. And it almost seems like she had this last breath. So I held her in my arms, and I'm trying to shake her up and I ran over, I called 911.

CANDIOTTI: His attorney says while Michael Schiavo might be foggy on the time, there was no delay in calling 911.

GEORGE FELOS, MICHAEL SCHIAVO'S ATTORNEY: Just a baseless claim to perpetuate a controversy in this case that, in fact, doesn't exist.

CANDIOTTI: An attorney for Schiavo's parents openly suggests Michael Schiavo had something to do with Terri's ultimate demise.

DAVID GIBBS, ATTORNEY FOR TERRI'S PARENTS: There's that possibility. And what happened in that time period, we don't know. And we'd like to know.

CANDIOTTI: But Michael Schiavo is not waiting for any more reviews. On Monday, five days after release of her autopsy, Terri Schiavo's ashes were buried in Florida, as her parents had hoped. The tombstone reads, "she parted this Earth in 1990, at peace in 2005."

And in a reference to his claim that his wife did not want to live in a vegetative state, Michael Schiavo adds, "I kept my promise."

Susan Candiotti, CNN, Miami.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on the program tonight: What former President Bill Clinton is saying about Guantanamo Bay.

Also, tonight: Junk food, tattoos and Froot Loops. What you never knew about Saddam Hussein.

A break first.

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In a moment, Saddam Hussein: The man and his snack habits. But fist, at about a quarter to the hour, time to check the headlines.

Erica Hill joins us, again. In Atlanta, good evening Ms. Hill, again.

HILL: Hello, again, Mr. Brown.

We start off, actually, with something you talked about earlier before the break: Former President Clinton saying the U.S. prison camp at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, should be quote, "Closed down or cleaned up." In an interview with London's financial times, Mr. Clinton warned holding suspects indefinitely has no place in a free society.

The Senate delivering another setback for John Bolton's nomination as U.N. ambassador today. For a second time, Republicans fell short of the sixty votes needed to cut off debate. The president, we should mention, does have the power to install Mr. Bolton without senate approval. He could take action during the Senates upcoming July forth recess, to do that.

And Aaron, just another reminder: A new feature today at CNN.com. When you get to the Web site, click on the video link at our site and you can check out the most popular news clips of the day like this one of Tom Cruise confronting his interviewers, if you can call them that. The guy who doused him with water. You can tune in as often as you like, whenever you want and of course, the best part here: It's all free!

BROWN: What a deal, that!

HILL: I tell you. I mean really it's the deal of the century.

BROWN: What is the company going to think of next? That's fabulous.

Thank you. We'll talk tomorrow. A new CNN-"USA TODAY"-Gallup poll shows that support for the war in Iraq is falling dramatically. Three months ago, just 90 days ago, 47 percent of those polled said they opposed the war, 47 percent said they were in favor of the war. You could say the country was split, 90 days ago. In the latest poll, almost 60 percent say they are opposed to the war, 39 percent say they support it.

As the war wages on, Saddam Hussein remains out of sight under heavy guard of American troops as he awaits trial. For the G.I.s assigned to guard him, it is fair to say the job of a lifetime. While they were on the job what they saw and heard was strictly secret. They were forbidden from talking about it until they came home.

And now, some have.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CORPORAL JONATHAN REESE, PA NATIONAL GUARD: We get over there, and then all of a sudden this mission was just thrown into our laps, so we lucked out. We had a cushy job.

SPECIALIST SEAN O'SHEA, PA NATIONAL GUARD: He came out, he put his hand over his heart and said, how are you? And he shook all of our hands.

REESE: You just got to keep reminding yourself that he's a bad man.

O'SHEA: If you went in there, not knowing anything about him at all, any of his past, I think there is a way that somebody could actually build, like, a normal relationship with him.

REESE: Yes.

O'SHEA: If he wasn't who he was, and -- what he's done.

REESE: He's really good add manipulating people. We're smart enough we knew better.

O'SHEA: Knowing how ruthless he was and how he destroyed his entire country, no matter how nice a person can be to your face, I don't think that's forgivable.

REESE: Wake up, we'd serve him breakfast, and then he'd get a shower.

O'SHEA: He would do laundry sometimes. He would read. He would write poetry. He would just write in his journal, smoke his pipe or cigars, walk back and forth or pray.

REESE: Lunch, dinner, that was pretty much the day, day in, day out.

He liked Ronald Reagan because he said, Ronald Reagan, he's a good president. You know, he give us helicopters. Bush father/son, he goes, no good. No good. Clinton, Clinton, Clinton, good. O'SHEA: He did say he was willing to forgive the Bushes, and, you know, work something out. He's just so confident that he's going to be back in power. He invited us back once the war is over. He says he's going to be president again, so he said, when I'm president again I would like if you guys came back and saw my country. He said it's not so nice now, but it will be better.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Morning papers, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. The rooster has the night off. That's the reason for that.

"Christian Science Monitor," "Oil Prices' Relentless Rise," hovering near $60 a barrel. You know, it almost got to $60 today. May hit the economy. How could it not?

Oh, also, in the "Christian Science Monitor," "U.S. Strategy in Iraq, Is It Working?" I don't think so. Not yet. Maybe.

"Dorito Bandito," "Daily News" headline here in New York. "Jailers: Saddam Loves Chips and Water." That should be chips and cola, actually. "But don't dare give him Froot Loops." OK, that's how Froot Loops is spelled? I think that's so you don't suspect that there's actually fruit in Froot Loops. They have to deliberately misspell it.

Twenty seconds. "Rice Asked Arab Allies to Pursue Liberty," that's "The Oregonian." Condoleezza Rice with a speech in Cairo saying to Arab countries, hey, come on, let's vote here.

The weather tomorrow in Chicago...

(ROOSTER CROWS)

BROWN: Thank you. I can't find the paper, and I don't remember the weather in Chicago. I think humdinger. I may have made that up though.

Linda Tripp when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA TRIPP, FMR WHITE HOUSE EMPLOYEE: I'm you. I'm just like you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Former White House employee Linda Tripp may not have been just like every American, but she was certainly everywhere in 1998.

TRIPP: If I ever want to have an affair with a married man again, especially if he's president, please shoot me.

Reporter: Tripp's taped phone conversations with White House intern Monica Lewinsky made her a key part of the Whitewater investigation, and the impeachment of President Clinton.

TRIPP: Monica made choices, the president made choices, and I was forced to make choices.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Those choices made Tripp a punchline on "Saturday Night Live," and a political pariah.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I didn't hear that! Tell me that louder.

TRIPP: I regret that my children were put through, just, horrific pain, and that other people's children were as well.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tripp is now 55 years old, and married her childhood sweetheart last year. The couple own a holiday-themed gift shop and live on a farm near Middleburg, Virginia. Tripp has undergone plastic surgery, and survived a bout with breast cancer. She says she doesn't hate Bill Clinton, but wishes he would've made different choices.

TRIPP: He could've been completely honest. I think he could've done it in a way that would've saved us all an enormous amount of heartache.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tripp has not talked with or seen Monica Lewinsky since 1998.

TRIPP: Given the same set of circumstances, at the time, knowing what I did, at the time, I probably would've done it all the same way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We'll see you tomorrow. Good night from all of us.

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