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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Can Iraq Be Won?; Congress Considers Measure to Limit Eminent Domain

Aired June 30, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again, everyone.
Where Iraq is concerned, the questions Americans seem to want answered most right now are: Can it be won and how? The president knows that, and his speech the other night was all about progress and winning.

We begin tonight with a small but noticeable sign. It doesn't tell the whole story, no one report can, but it offers a bit of hope in a sometimes bleak backdrop.

It's reported by CNN's Jennifer Eccleston.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JENNIFER ECCLESTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): First Lieutenant Fallah Abdul Karim (ph) navigates Baghdad's Haifa Street and the maze of crossroads. At every turn, he and his men are greeted by children, more children and grateful residents.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): Thank God, now with the help of the Iraqi Army, the situation became more stable and safe. Before, it was difficult to live in this area, but now you can see we live normally.

ECCLESTON: Karim and his 25-member patrol are soldiers of Delta Company, the unit in charge of securing Haifa Street, once one of the most dangerous areas in Baghdad.

For most of 2004, insurgents terrorized the neighborhood, using it as a base to launch attacks not only on American patrols, but on the nearby Green Zone. Shops were closed and fear drove residents out or locked inside their homes.

(on camera): Six months ago, this part of Haifa Street was an all-out war zone. It was so dangerous, that the American forces who were fighting insurgents here, sometimes street by street, house by house, nicknamed Haifa Street: Grenade Alley or Purple Heart Boulevard.

(voice-over): The cost of taking back the street was high for Iraqi soldiers: 26 killed in the battle for what they call Little Fallujah. Delta company's commander says several major joint U.S.- Iraqi operations, along with constant patrolling, broke the back of the resistance. Either capturing the fighters or driving them elsewhere.

MAJ. FUAD AL JABURI, COMMANDER DELTA COMPANY (translator): God willing, God willing, there are no more terrorists on Haifa Street. Even if there are terrorists, they fear to show up here, because this platoon has an effective role in this section.

ECCLESTON: The U.S. Army's 3rd Infantry Division trained Delta Company and still provides a supporting role in neighborhood search and cordon operations. Today, just a handful of soldiers joined the foot patrol. They were welcomed by Haifa's residents, but it's the Iraqis who are the true stars.

This 8-year-old says he wants to be an Iraqi soldier. Why: To protect my country. It's an example the U.S. military needs and wants to repeat across the country.

MAJ. TOM FREELUE, U.S. ARMY: The Iraqis have some -- have an ability that we as U.S. forces don't have, in that they speak the language. It's a lot easier to get intelligence. And once they clear the streets, they basically said that we own this street and we're not going to let it go back like it was before.

ECCLESTON: On Haifa's bullet-scarred walls, the graffiti speaks of a neighborhood transformed. In buildings once owned by insurgents, gone are the scribbling of: Long live the resistance. Today, it's long live the Iraqi army.

Jennifer Eccleston, CNN, Baghdad.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: As we said, just one slice of a complicated story and here's another: Today Iraq's interior minister said "insurgent violence in the first half of the year has killed more than 8,000 Iraqi civilians, police and troops. Another 12,000 Iraqis have been wounded."

On the American side: 1,741 troops have died in the war, many in attacks by insurgents. Last week was the bloodiest week yet for American women serving in Iraq. Three were killed, 11 injured in a suicide attack outside Fallujah. The frontlines are everywhere in this war. And that has changed everything for everyone on the ground.

Here's CNN's Jane Arraf.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JANE ARRAF, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Marines at Checkpoint One to Fallujah, women and men, were back on the job the morning after the deadliest attack on American women in this war. It happened just inside the city.

(on camera): This is just a few hundred meters from one of the main checkpoints into Fallujah. It's here that a car packed with explosives veered across the road and slammed straight into a 7-ton truck filled with female marines. (voice-over): Lance Corporal Olivia Watkins does the same job many of the casualty did: Searching Iraqi women for weapons in a culture where it would be unacceptable for men to search them.

LANCE CPL OLIVIA WATKINS: We got back on the trucks the next day and came out and -- it's our job, got to keep going. You know, got to honor those who were injured, by coming out and doing our job.

ARRAF: For the most part, these are young women who take for granted the right to serve their country in a war zone. They've come to grips with the danger here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was terrible what happened, but any loss in the Marine Corps is just as bad, whether it's a female or male. It sucks either way.

ARRAF: Although women are banned from combat roles, in a battle where the roads are the most dangerous place to be, almost everywhere is the front line. These fingers on the barrel belong to Julianne Sohn, a civil affairs officer. On the way to schools and council meetings, she pulls security like any Marine.

CAPT. JULIANNE SOHN, U.S. MARINES: I just think about getting the job done, because it's about going out into the community and finding ways to help them.

ARRAF: Many of the casualties were from Sergeant Major Nancy Answorth's unit. She joined the Marines 23 years ago when applying makeup was part of the curriculum.

SGT. MAJ. NANCY ANSWORTH, U.S. MARINES: It changed a lot. When I joined the Marine Corps, we didn't even qualify with weapons, females didn't. We couldn't deploy, we couldn't go on a unit deployment.

ARRAF: With the sheer number of casualties in what's considered a relatively safe city compared to others in central Iraq, last week's attack has had a resounding impact.

SGT. KENT PADMORE, U.S. MARINES: This is the farewell wall that we pay respect to all our Marines and most recently, last Thursday, all these Marines here, that worked with us, were wounded or killed.

ARRAF: Sergeant Kent Padmore was in the convoy.

PADMORE: We think of them every day and we keep them with us.

ARRAF: Padmore worked with several of the casualties at the checkpoint to an assistant center for Iraqis. He pulled some of them to safety from the car bomb. The VBIED, burning his hand in the secondary explosions. For him, there's no question about whether women should be out here.

PADMORE: I personally know that we need them here. And I'm glad that they are here. I've personally been in fire fights with at least three of them. And I was at the VBIED with another 18 of them and they all conducted themselves professionally. They're Marines. The bottom line: They're Marines. I really wish people would stop calling them female Marines, because they're Marines, that's what they are.

ARRAF: In this war zone, everyone is facing the same dangers.

Jane Arraf, CNN, Fallujah.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: In the Marines, the women who serve with men on patrols and raids and at checkpoints are sometimes known as Lioness Teams. Captain Julianne Sohn, among them, you heard briefly from her in Jane's piece and the captain joins us from Fallujah.

It's nice to see you.

How do Iraqis react to women in authority like you are?

SOHN: Actually, I go out into the community a lot, since I'm the -- I work for the civil affairs group here. And so, I actually go out to the civil military operations center and deal with a lot of Iraqis on a daily basis.

And some of the more conservative Iraqis actually, they don't shake women's hands. They'll actually greet you like this and they kind of look at me as a novelty, because for them, it's unusual to deal with women in an authority position.

BROWN: Does it take a while to -- for them to sort of get it?

SOHN: I think it depends on the individual Iraqis. I mean, I've worked with a lot of Iraqi journalists who are local to Fallujah and you know, they're great to work with. I find it just depends on who it is. And usually, the younger Iraqis are more open. You have the Sheikhs, who are definitely more conservative and they're the ones who are likely to acknowledge you, but they're not going to like, physically touch you.

BROWN: Let's talk about sort of day-to-day life and what it's like out there for you. Do you think, by and large, female Marines are satisfied with the role they have, or would like to do more and feel capable of doing more?

SOHN: I think with most female Marines, we know that we have a very important role to play here, because in Iraqi society, there is very clear delineated space between females and male spaces. And so, women here do know that they play a very important role and we can't really do this mission without female Marines.

BROWN: Do you think that female Marines are itching to be allowed to go and fight the fights. I mean, there's not much they're not allowed to do, but there are some things they're not allowed to do. Would they like to break that ground?

SOHN: With a lot of female Marines, I think that, you know -- Jane probably said it pretty well with it's hard to define what combat is. Here, Fallujah is considered a combat zone. And women have to be out there at the checkpoints. They are out, you know, pulling security when they're going from point A to point B.

And so it's one of those things where we're all trained as Marines. We say that every Marine is a rifleman. Female Marines get the same training as male Marines do at boot camp as well as officer candidate school.

So, I mean, we've gone a long ways from back in the '70s, where they were actually doing those sorts of makeup classes. Now we're actually doing, learning tactics because just in the event that we have to be there, we have to pull our weight.

BROWN: Just one or two more quick things, if I can. I'm sure you are aware, I suspect you're aware, there was a move in Congress, some talk in Congress of pulling back the role that women play generally in the armed services. Your best sense of how -- I assume you wouldn't be too happy with that?

SOHN: Well, I can just say that especially in this particular environment that we're operating in in this culture, you need women out here to do those checkpoints, to go and meet with female leaders in terms of, like developing women centers here and sowing centers.

We have civil affairs teams that go out in town. And the schools are, you know, there are boy schools and girl schools. Oftentimes they can't go into the girls' schools without a female marine there to communicate with the women there. So I mean, I think we play a very vital role out here.

BROWN: One last question. Do you think this is the last war, really, where all of us will consider women soldiers, women casualties, women Marines, all of it as a novelty?

SOHN: I really don't think so, in the sense that I mean, you had women here at Desert Storm and Desert Shield and we're here again. And we're always there alongside with our male counterparts, we're there to support, we're there to be Marines.

BROWN: We would say this to anyone out there, and we'll say it to you, stay safe out there, and come home safely, OK?

SOHN: Thank you very much, Aaron. I appreciate it.

BROWN: Thank you very much for everything. Captain Julianne Sohn, a Marine.

Not quite quarter past an hour. We're getting up there. Still time for other headlines of the day. Erica Hill is in Atlanta. She's an impressive woman, isn't she?

ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS: Absolutely.

BROWN: I mean, she's very matter of fact about it.

HILL: I love women like that. And they're such great role models.

BROWN: She's a wonderful role model for women. She is, indeed, for all of us.

HILL: Absolutely.

BROWN: Go get them.

HILL: All right.

Starting off with the headlines now. The helicopter crash caused the highest one-day death toll for U.S. forces in Afghanistan since the war began there four years ago. Coalition forces have now recovered all 16 bodies from the crash site of a Chinook transport chopper. The U.S. military believes the helicopter was downed by a rocket propelled grenade.

The chopper carrying special forces troops crashed on Tuesday high in the Hindu Kush mountains of Afghanistan, that's close to the border with Pakistan.

In Vancouver's Horseshoe Bay, a massive ferry almost 500 feet long with more than 500 passengers aboard, lost power and slammed into a dock crushing several boats on the way. But so far -- this perhaps the most amazing part, no reports of serious injuries.

The Space Shuttle Discovery is aiming for liftoff July 13. NASA named the date today after two years of setbacks and delays. It will be the first shuttle flight since 2003 when the Shuttle Columbia broke apart on reentry, killing all seven astronauts on board. Discovery will carry seven astronauts to the International Space Station.

And a new feature we want to tell you about. Just log on to CNN.com, click on the video link and you can watch the video as many times as you want, all the special 4th of July holiday weekend price, ten acres of zilch.

BROWN: How long is this going to go on where we do this?

HILL: I don't know. Ask the guy whose signs the checks. I'm not sure.

BROWN: If you were writing and say I got it already. OK. I'm cool with it. Stop!

HILL: I forget every night until we get the news in. It's a good reminder for me.

BROWN: Thank you, yes, I'm sure. See you in a half hour.

Much more ahead on the program tonight, starting with real estate. Who can take it, who shouldn't be taking it and who is under investigation for getting a heck of a deal on it?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN (voice-over): He wants to take the house out from under a guy. A guy in the U.S. Supreme Court. Is it payback?

ROBERT KNIGHT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: A man's home is his castle in America. At least it has been up till now.

BROWN: Eminent domain was never quite so juicy until now.

This guy's a Congressman in a hurry.

ED HENRY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Were you bribed by a lobbyist? Were you bribed by a lobbyist?

BROWN: He doesn't want to talk about selling his home to a defense contractor who did millions in business before his subcommittee. He won't. But we will.

And remember in the day when the Martians really were coming?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those creatures know what that means.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

(SCREAMS)

BROWN: OK. Not really. But truly, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Years ago -- a lot of years ago now, I remember a house down the street from us with a sign out front that read impeach Earl Warren, Earl Warren was the chief justice of the U.S. Supreme Court back then. And for a lot of people, he was a lightning rod.

Safe to say, nobody would describe Justice David Souter that way. He makes Mr. Rogers look like Attila the Hun. So, why is somebody trying to take his house out from under him? Two words: eminent domain, the principle that government can take your home for public gain. And now for private gain as well. Here's CNN's Tom Foreman.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As homeowners nationwide react furiously to the Supreme Court ruling to let governments seize houses for private economic development, a California entrepreneur is making the fight personal. He asked the town of Weare, New Hampshire to let him build a hotel right where Justice David Souter's house is. Logan Darrow Clements says he's received 400,000 hits on his Web site, 400 phone calls and 5,000 e- mails.

LOGAN DARROW CLEMENTS, DEVELOPER: All 100 percent overwhelmingly enthusiastic. In just one of those e-mails, for example, a man offered $1 million towards the project. So this is a real project, and it's really going to go forward.

FOREMAN: In Washington, Congress is lashing out, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I believe this is an assault on our entire Constitution.

FOREMAN: Announcing plans for legislation to strip federal funding from any local government that takes a home this way.

REP. JAMES SENSENBRENNER (R), WISCONSIN: What all of us who wish to see this legislation enacted into law want to make sure happens is that the federal government's money will not be used to finance taking somebody's property from them to build a strip mall or a hotel or something simply because more tax revenue will come in.

FOREMAN: Governments have long been able to forcibly buy private property to make way for highways, schools -- the public good. This ruling expands that power to let homes be taken for economic development -- a new mall, a restaurant, even higher priced houses.

(on camera): Supporters of this ruling, like the National League of Cities, say it will allow economically depressed areas to be revitalized, no longer held up by, say, a lone homeowner who just doesn't want a golf course in the neighborhood.

(voice-over): But many conservatives and liberals are joining forces to say the ruling is anti-community, anti-family, anti-values.

ROBERT KNIGHT, CONCERNED WOMEN FOR AMERICA: A man's home is his castle in America, or at least it has been up until now. Now it's your castle only if you're deemed economically viable for whatever government entity.

FOREMAN: In vowing to fight the ruling, the governor of Georgia said this is a kitchen table issue. Americans want to make sure they can keep the kitchen their table is in.

Tom Foreman, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: This too began as a story about real estate, a mystery. How could somebody buy a house for $1.6 million and sell it about a year later at a $700,000 loss? Do that in a red-hot corner of a red- hot real estate market? How could they do that? And why would they do that?

Well, the house belonged to a congressman who sits on a House Subcommittee for Defense Appropriations. And the buyer is a defense contractor, who ran a company that awarded tens of millions of dollars in no-bid appropriations OK'd by that subcommittee. And when the congressman isn't at work, by the way, he's living on the contractor's yacht. You got to love this. Here's CNN's Ed Henry.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congressman Randy "Duke" Cunningham doesn't want to talk about how he sold his home.

(on camera): Do you think this really passes the smell test?

REP. RANDY "DUKE" CUNNINGHAM (R), CALIFORNIA: I will talk to you about the weapons of mass destruction, though.

HENRY: Do you think this passes the smell test, sir?

(voice-over): Two years ago, the California Republican sold this house in San Diego for $1.6 million. The buyer was Mitchell Wade, president of MZM Incorporated, a small defense firm. Wade eventually sold it for a loss, of $700,000.

To Democrats, that's a red flag.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA), HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: The housing market in California is very hot. Mr. Cunningham's house seems to be the only one that had been on the market for a long time. Some might think it was overpriced.

HENRY: This transaction has caught the eye of federal prosecutors in San Diego. CNN has confirmed a grand jury is probing the sale of Cunningham's home.

MELANIE SLOAN, CITIZENS FOR RESPONSIBILITY AND ETHICS IN WASHINGTON: This certainly looks like one of the worst situations I've come across in my time examining Congress.

HENRY: Sloan's organization, a liberal watchdog group, believes Wade bought the home at an inflated price, as payback for the congressman backing his bid for millions in military contracts. They also note that Cunningham just bought this sprawling, $2.5 million mansion, a serious upgrade for a congressman making about $160,000 a year.

And when he's in Washington, "Duke" Cunningham lives on this 42- foot yacht, owned by the same defense contractor, Mitchell Wade.

The congressman says he pays dock fees and other expenses instead of rent.

Wade did not return CNN's calls, and when we brought a camera to his Washington home, nobody answered.

Cunningham is taking heat back in San Diego, where he's long been considered a hero for his days as a Navy fighter pilot, shooting down five MiGs in the Vietnam War. His exploits helped inspire the movie "Top Gun."

About two weeks ago, Cunningham put out a written statement, denying wrongdoing, but acknowledging poor judgment in selling his home to, quote, "a friend who does business with the government." The congressman added, "I would never put the interests of a friend or a contractor above the interests of my country. I trust that the facts will bear out this truth over time."

But Cunningham will not discuss those facts right now.

CUNNINGHAM: You know I can't talk to you. But I'd be happy to talk to you about education.

HENRY (on camera): Were you bribed?

CUNNINGHAM: I'll be happy to talk to you about what we're doing in Congress. I'll be happy to talk to you about the new weapons of mass destruction.

HENRY: Are you thinking about stepping down? Are you going to step down?

CUNNINGHAM: Why should I?

HENRY (voice-over): This former top gun is not ready to call it quits.

Ed Henry, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Coming up on the program, the day the Martians arrived and the earthlings freaked. The Martians were fake; the panic was not.

Also ahead, is there a ruling class in the country, and do they know it? We'll take a break first, a couple of floors down from the penthouse suite. In truth, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Long ago and far away, H.G. Wells wrote a small book he called "War of the Worlds." Now it's a movie, a very big movie, with a hyperactive star.

But when Orson Welles -- no relation to H.G. Wells -- put the story on the radio 70 years ago, people ran for the hills, not the box office. And that made news. Here's our senior analyst, Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SR. ANALYST (voice-over): Mobs in the streets, pushing, shoving, yelling. Near chaos. That's what it looked like last week in Manhattan at the premiere of the Steven Spielberg/Tom Cruise likely summer blockbuster, "War of the Worlds."

But it was another "War of the Worlds" that really triggered chaos in the streets of New York and in cities across the nation, and taught a lesson about the striking power of mass media.

ORSON WELLES, RADIO PERSONALITY/DIRECTOR: We know now that in the early years of the 20th century, this world was being watched closely by intelligences greater than man's. GREENFIELD: The voice, that unmistakable voice, is that of Orson Welles, then a 23-year-old wunderkind, who headed the Mercury Theater on the air.

On Halloween Eve, 1938, Welles and his company offered the H.G. Wells science fiction classic about a Martian invasion, and made broadcast history.

As "The New York Times" described it the next day, "a wave of mass hysteria seized thousands of radio listeners. The broadcast disrupted households, interrupted religious services, created traffic jams and clogged communications systems."

This news photo shows 76-year-old William Dock (ph) in Grovers Mill, New Jersey, site of the alien invasion, ready to ward off the Martians.

The not exactly contrite Orson Welles apologized at a press conference.

WELLES: Extremely surprised to learn that a story which has become familiar to children through the medium of comic strips...

GREENFIELD (on camera): But why did this happen? Why did a radio drama, advertised as such, interrupted for an intermission trigger such panic? The answer lies in its format and in the times.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the Meridian Room in the Park Plaza Hotel in New York City, we bring you the music of Raymond Makello (ph) and his orchestra.

GREENFIELD: Welles and company used a familiar form of radio news broadcasts to create the illusion of a real event, interrupting the music for a news item.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Professor Farrell of the Mt. Jennings observatory in Chicago, Illinois reports observing several explosions of incandescent gas occurring at regular intervals on the planet Mars.

GREENFIELD: Then cutting to the scene of a landing, where the horrible truth emerges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martians cylinders are falling all over the country. (INAUDIBLE). Head on! (INAUDIBLE).

It burst into flames. This is terrible, this is the worst catastrophe that the world...

GREENFIELD: It sounded, in fact, very much like a horrifying real-live event, broadcast little more than a year earlier, when the dirigible Hindenburg exploded, a disaster captured memorably by announcer Herbert Morrison.

HERBERT MORRISON, RADIO ANNOUNCER: Oh, the humanity!

GREENFIELD: Moreover, radio had been taking listeners to other real invasions across Europe, as Hitler's armies advanced through Austria and into Czechoslovakia.

So audiences could be forgiven for thinking that what they were hearing was actually happening.

(on camera): Of course, we're much more sophisticated now. Could anyone watch such an entertainment offering so clearly staged, artificially contrived and possibly mistake it for reality?

ANNOUNCER: The next chapter in the story of "The Average Joe."

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm trying to be the real me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Tribe has spoken.

DONALD TRUMP, THE APPRENTICE: You're fired.

GREENFIELD: Of course not.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still to come tonight, secret sources and subpoenas: the decision by a major news organization that some say puts the future of the press in some jeopardy.

And also, an ugly case of deja vu involving a hate crime in a familiar place. We'll take a break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Today, a major news organization did what no other has, at least in living memory: "Time" magazine, which like CNN is owned by Time Warner says it will turn over grand jury documents relating to the confidential sources of one of its reporters, Matthew Cooper. Mr. Cooper, along with Judith Miller of "The New York Times" faces jail for refusing to testify before a grand jury investigating who leaked the identity of CIA agent Valerie Plame. Norm Pearlstine, the editor in chief of "Time" made it clear he believes the magazine's decision was unavoidable.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NORM PEARLSTINE, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, TIME MAGAZINE: I have talked to Matt. And I think Matt as an individual reporter has to make a decision on his own about what he will do with regard to his confidential sources. As a representative of Time, Inc., who was a defendant in the case, as well as Matt, it was very much my feeling that once the Supreme Court had spoken, once the Supreme Court had affirmed a decision that goes back 33 years, that says that we are not above the law when it comes to testifying before a grand jury, we had no choice but to comply.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BROWN: The decision to turn over the confidential notes came two days after the U.S. Supreme Court refused to hear the case. In a statement today, "The New York Times," which stands by its reporter, Judy Miller, said it was deeply disappointed by "Time's" decision.

In truth, this story has lots of layers and a fair amount is not altogether clear. Judith Miller interviewed sources about the leak, but never wrote an article about it. Mr. Cooper did write an article, but only after Robert Novak, the columnist and CNN contributor, first named Miss Plame in his column. Mr. Novak, who has been notably reticent in all of this has so far suffered no repercussions.

Journalists have traditionally argued they need confidential sources to ensure the public is fully informed. Recent court rulings have said other factors may outweigh that.

Matt Felling is the media director for the Center for Media and Public Affairs. And we talked to Matt earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Matt, hears the deal as I see it, whatever the right and wrong of all this, I don't see the country, I don't see the American public clamoring for the right of reporters to keep sources secret from a grand jury.

MATT FELLING, CENTER FOR MEDIA AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS: No. It's because the story has been so disjointed from the very beginning. We had 2003, the Robert Novak story came out on a weekend and it really didn't pick up momentum until months after that, because right after Robert Novak came out, we found Uday and Qusay's bodies.

So, because this story has advanced in fits and starts, it really hasn't developed a narrative. So the nation hasn't attached itself. And given the fact that the media is not in high esteem on the part of the public anyway, it's really tough to have a good guy and bad guy in the story, when everybody at play is anonymous.

BROWN: Fair point, but -- and here's the but -- I think even if -- I suspect even if and even when people understand the stories better than they may understand this one, there is still no great clamoring for the right of reporters to keep sources secret from grand juries.

FELLING: Well, especially in this story, because what it turns out that they are protecting is somebody who did the equivalent of a political hit. I do think that anonymous sources are valuable. And I think that Mark Felt coming out publicly a couple weeks ago -- a months ago, pardon me -- did nothing but advance that identity to most of America. Because anonymous sources are often seen as a lazy crutch on the part of journalists, but we need them vitally.

BROWN: When there is a conflict between the court's need for information and the press's desire or need to maintain the anonymity of its sources, why should the press win? FELLING: I don't think it's a desire or a need, Aaron. I think that it's a duty to one's occupation as being a journalist. It's not that unlike a confessional in the Catholic Church. You have to be able to stand by that, because you need somebody to be able to come to you and you can promise anonymity and you can't just make it when it's convenient or until it gets too hot. And that's what happened today with Matthew Cooper.

BROWN: Here's the other part of the problem in this. There's too much we don't know.

FELLING: Yes.

BROWN: I mean we don't quite understand -- I don't quite understand why Mr. Novak is not under the same threat. And if it is because -- I don't know this, but if it is because he gave up the source long ago, then why are we screwing around with Judy Miller and Matt Cooper anyway?

FELLING: Well, I think you've gotten to the kernel right here. There is a large constituency of people here inside the Beltway who think that Robert Novak has a special arrangement, because he did provide information.

But I think David Ignatius of "The Washington Post" put it best. He said, this is just like Moby Dick. It is not a story about a fish. It is not about Matthew Cooper or Judith Miller. I think the prosecutor in this case is looking to find somebody inside the power of the administration and find them guilty of perjury, because all these people had to be brought before the judge. And if somebody said they didn't provide the information and Cooper and Miller actually you did, that's what the prosecutor, that's what the golden ring that the prosecutor is looking for.

Because, truth be told, some people aren't really taking Novak's testimony as 100 percent gospel truth.

BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. Thanks for making the argument tonight.

FELLING: Thanks, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Felling earlier today.

Ahead on the program, a wonderful look at America's ruling class. And here you thought we didn't have one, because this is America, right?

Also, police pursuit at the airport. The driver of this truck was definitely not cleared for takeoff. From New York, we may never make the right on red, ever. It's against the law. But we are always NEWSNIGHT. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: This is about numbers and human nature. The numbers say the rich are getting richer, and the gap between rich and poor is growing. Human nature says something else. When asked, people in the middle consistently say they're closer to the top. And people at the top, oddly enough, think they're closer to the middle.

The film producers you're about to meet are trying to clear up that confusion. And if they get a laugh along the way, they'll take it.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEWIS LAPHAM, NARRATOR: Our wish to preserve the illusion of a classless society lends itself to the telling of a story. The story about two young men who don't know whether they want to rule the world or save it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is the first ever dramatic documentary musical, and it's a satire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You come from probably the most programmed generation in American history.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were trying to do something completely different, because we are documentary producers, and we got bored with the format.

So we said, well, what can we do? Well, the first step was, let's add a narrative.

LAPHAM: In a world collaterally damaged by the magic of money and the miracles of science, no questions get asked more often than the ones about the uses of America's wealth and of power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lewis Lapham, the editor of "Harper's" magazine, takes these two kids on a tour of the corridors of power.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nationalism.

LAPHAM: Nationalism. Last refuge of small and impoverished countries.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One of them has a job offer from a prominent investment bank, and the other one is thinking that he wants to be a writer.

LAPHAM: Let's ask somebody who knows. Robert Altman.

ROBERT ALTMAN, DIRECTOR: Lewis, how are you? Good to see you.

LAPHAM: Robert, this is Mike Gonzane (ph).

ALTMAN: Hello, Mike.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nice to meet you.

ALTMAN: How are you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And action!

LAPHAM: Ask him your question.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I was wondering, do you think that film can serve a progressive political purpose?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it shows how both of them are, even though they have doubts, are pulled in the direction of going to, like, a big bank.

LAPHAM: I've done my best. But ask Walter.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been trying to discover if, in fact, there is an American ruling class.

WALTER CRONKITE, FORMER CBS NEWS ANCHOR: I'm afraid there is.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So they go around, they talk to all these people about what it is to be a leader in America, what it is to be a part of what is a controversial idea, a ruling class. And they explore what that means.

Lewis would contend that every society has had a ruling class, and you can't have a society without one. He's sort of like the snake in the Garden of Eden, who is bringing you up. He's showing you what's possible. He's showing you the Lear jets and the expense accounts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning. I'm Enrique, Mr. Medavoy's partner.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And he's also showing you the possibility of a better world, and you can choose. You can go after your own narrow self-interest, or you can pursue something larger.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doesn't seem fair to say that I have to choose between living a virtuous life, and having money. Why should I have to make that choice?

LAPHAM: Jack, there are people that say you don't have to choose.

This is the Counsel on Foreign Relations. For the last 50 years, every prominent secretary of state or of defense has been a member.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We certainly did not know when we went to speak to James Baker, when we went to speak to Vartan Gregorian, or to Harold Brown or to Bill Bradley, what they were going to say to us. You know, we knew what their backgrounds were, we had this inkling of what they might want to say to us, but not entirely.

BILL BRADLEY, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: I don't know if there's a class. It's a concept that's much too amorphous I think in this country.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With all due respect, I think the people rule.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a surprisingly open elite.

VARTAN GREGORIAN, AUTHOR: You start in the basement and work yourself up to the top floor. When you reach there, move across the street.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The point of the film is, what kind of people are we training? And where are they taking us?

JAMES BAKER, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: Because we are the only country in the world that can responsibly and effectively project power the way we can around the world. And that is a good thing. And that is a good thing for, I think, for Americans and for the world.

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BROWN: We'll check the day's headlines in a moment. Take a break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Time just zipping by tonight. About 12 minutes to the top of the hour. Time to check some of the other day's headlines. Erica Hill again in Atlanta -- Ms. Hill.

HILL: Mr. Brown, as they say, it flies when you're having fun. Right?

We'll start off with the headlines.

A young white man has been charged with a hate crime and ordered held without bail. He is accused of beating a black man with an aluminum baseball bat. Nicholas Minucci allegedly attacked Glen Moore with a bat in the Howard Beach section of Queens. That is the same neighborhood where three black men were beaten after their car broke down in 1986. The victim, Glen Moore, suffered head trauma and other injuries. He is listed in critical but stable condition.

Talk about a scare at Sky Harbor International Airport in Phoenix, Arizona. Police pursued a reportedly stolen pickup truck to the airport perimeter. Well, that truck then crashed through a security fence. Air traffic controllers stopped air traffic. Police did fire at the fugitive, but say the suspect wasn't hit. He was eventually arrested. He's now in a hospital being treated for injuries.

And just one last reminder before I leave you for the weekend, a new feature at cnn.com. Click on the video link. You will be able to watch video as many times as you want, all for about what you'd expect to pay for a cool water sandwich and a Sunday go to meeting bun.

BROWN: What does that mean? HILL: Apparently, it's from "The Blues Brothers." Your good friend Marshall in New York is coming up with all these gems, and I truly think they're gems. I enjoy them.

BROWN: That's some regional, crazy, wacky thing there.

HILL: Hey, you know, you do Chicago weather every night. That's regional. I really enjoy the Chicago weather, actually.

BROWN: Thank you. That's exactly the right thing to say. We'll talk to you tomorrow. Thank you.

Italian prosecutors are preparing extradition papers for the arrest of 13 Americans, apparently all CIA agents, who are accused of kidnapping a radical Egyptian cleric in Milan two years ago. The Italian government has denied reports the CIA warned the Italians in advance. The CIA refused to comment, as usual.

CNN's David Ensor has been digging into this for tonight's "Security Watch."

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DAVID ENSOR, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: (voice-over): The Italian officials strongly denied it in their parliament, but knowledgeable U.S. sources tell CNN the CIA got the approval of Italian intelligence counterparts before capturing Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr, known as Abu Omar, on this street in Milan in 2003. The suspected Islamic militant, sources say, was then flown by the CIA back to Cairo, and turned over to authorities there in his native country -- a practice known as rendition. He claims he was tortured there.

REUEL GERECHT, FORMER CIA OFFICER: The notion that the agency engaged in any type of rendition in a Western European country without the coordination, support of its internal security service and the approval of the prime minister's office is unthinkable.

ENSOR: Unthinkable? Not to an Italian court, which indicted 13 Americans, alleged CIA officers, on charges of kidnapping.

STEPHEN HADLEY, NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I understand that they have made some requests of the United States. Those requests will be handled in the normal legal channels. That's really all I've got on this one.

ENSOR: Bush administration officials are saying next to nothing about the case. The CIA has no comment whatsoever.

Knowledgeable U.S. sources tell CNN that is because the agreement between American and Italian intelligence officials was, if the rendition ever became public, both governments would either refuse comment, or deny knowing about it.

Rendition is an extraordinarily sensitive matter for spy agencies. But the president has defended the practice. GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We operate within the law. And we send people to countries where they say they're not going to torture the people.

ENSOR: Whatever assurances Egypt may have given, his friends tell CNN Abu Omar claims he has been tortured under interrogation. Critics of rendition say it conflicts with America's efforts to promote reform in the Arab world.

GERECHT: It is odd to have, say, Elliott Abrams, who is in charge of spreading democracy in the region, go to Cairo and try to convince Hosni Mubarak, the president, that he really needs to open up the political system; at the same time, CIA officers are landing in Cairo with someone that they want the Egyptian intelligence service to torture.

ENSOR (on camera): Hundreds of men like Abu Omar have been identified living in the West in the last few years, who U.S. intelligence officials believe would plot terrorism if left to their own devices. Sending them to the custody of Middle East security services may prevent that, but it raises troubling questions at the same time.

David Ensor, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: OK. Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world.

"The Washington Times" starts us off. "House OKs cash for veterans. Democrats get military victory." Democrats for months have been saying you have got to give more money to veterans' health care. Republicans kept saying no, there's plenty there, there's plenty there. They changed their minds. Not plenty there. Although there is more now.

"San Antonio Express News," "past is present in Iran." This is a story about whether the president-elect of Iran was involved in the hostage taking a generation ago. I don't get it. These stories just make me nuts. "Mom guilty in decapitations. Valley woman gets three life sentences for helping husband kill kids."

"International Herald Tribune," puts the -- owned by The New York Times, published by New York Times -- "'Time' magazine to give up leak files." They put that on the front page. It's a good story.

"Chicago Sun-Times." "Just married," that's Jen and Ben. They tied the knot and confirm she's pregnant. I actually like when they do it the other way around, get married first. But that's me.

Weather tomorrow in Chicago, "ahh." It's going to cool down, finally. So will we after the break.

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BROWN: Good to have you with us tonight. If you're not with us tomorrow, then I can't remind you that we have a special 4th of July program on Monday. Tracking all that?

Until we see you again, good night for all of us at NEWSNIGHT.

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