Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Community Dismayed by London Bombing Suspects; Whistleblower: NYC Lax on Making Subways Safe; Jerusalem Security Helps Keep Buses Safe; What Makes a Suicide Bomber?; Aging Space Shuttles Due for Retirement

Aired July 13, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again. We begin tonight again in London, where it's increasingly clear that last week's terror attacks were also suicide missions, a fact that in some ways changes everything.
The portraits of the four suspected bombers slowly coming into focus, all four men British nationals. Police in London have named three of them, the youngest just 18, the oldest 30.

If you think you have an idea of what a suicide bomber is made of, their backgrounds may surprise you. That's where our reporting begins tonight, with CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On the front page of Britain's "Daily Mirror" newspaper, pictures of the men suspected in last week's bombings. In "The Independent" newspaper, a very young Hasib Hussain, suspected of blowing up the bus in last week's attack.

Eighteen-year-old Hasib Hussain's house is being shrouded in plastic sheeting, his life, in particular the days before the bombing, still a mystery the police are trying to uncover.

PETER CLARK, SCOTLAND YARD ANTI-TERRORIST BRANCH: Some of his property was found on the Route 30 bus in Tavistock Square.

ROBERTSON: At the family house of Shahzad Tanweer, another of the four bombing suspects, just a few streets away, forensic experts are sifting through his life. Neighbors saw a computer taken away.

But no one, least of all his uncle, saw this day coming.

BASHIR AHMED, TANWEER'S UNCLE: What drove him to it, who pushed him to it, I don't know. I wish I could find out.

ROBERTSON (on camera): And that's what his neighbors are saying. How could this young man, a young man they saw on their streets every day, have been one of the bombers? Everyone in this mixed community is struggling with shock, searching for answers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I've seen him in the first year (ph).

ROBERTSON: When he was a student? (ph) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, yes.

ROBERTSON (voice-over): Ishad Hussein (ph) knew Shahzad Tanweer's father, knew Shahzad well.

Shahzad was born in Britain in 1982, had a younger brother and two sisters, liked to play cricket and soccer. In fact, he was so good at soccer, at school he played three years above his age group. And some friends said he could have played professionally.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He worked very hard to bring his children up properly. And like I said, his father is a law-abiding citizen.

ROBERTSON: Shahzad worked here at his father's fast food store, and attended but dropped out of Leeds University. His father took him to Pakistan last year. Pakistani authorities are investigating what he did while there.

AHMED: That's the end of this year. That's the end of his life, by the look at it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you see any change in him when he came back?

AHMED: No.

ROBERTSON: The third suspect, Mohammed Sidique Khan, seen getting married in this picture in "The Mirror" newspaper. The caption reads, "He was a schoolteacher."

He was older than the other suspects and had an 8-month-old baby. He lived here, about 10 miles, 15 kilometers, from Shahzad, in a more upscale and Muslim neighborhood.

But facts remain scarce. Police are only now questioning neighbors and have yet to say how the four men first met, how well they knew each other, how they stayed in contact and built their bombs.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON: And that is something that's raising a lot of questions here: how well did they know each other?

Now, some British media organizations are saying that these young men did know each other, did know each other quite some time before the bombings took place.

We've been asking that question in this community around here. And nobody we've been able to find so far, at least, has been forthcoming, although the men lived closely. People here are telling us they don't know that they belonged to the same organization, can't tell us if they actually knew each other here in the neighborhood -- Aaron.

BROWN: Well, there's so many questions. Whether they belong to the same organization. What organization? Is there a master bomb maker here? What happened to the master bomb maker?

What sort of things are you hearing, in terms of where the police now, the anti-terror police are taking the investigation?

ROBERTSON: Well, they appeared overnight tonight, to have taken the investigation to a house just outside the north side of London in Buckinghamshire. An investigation there has involved police from the anti-terrorist squad. They've gone into a house, searched a house in an operation that they say could take quite some time, an operation that has been based upon the terrorism act of 2000.

They have been in the house for a number of hours. And we understand that operation could go on longer.

It is suspected that they are looking for a fifth person. That is certainly the suspicion of a lot of people in this area who knew the young men. They say they weren't sophisticated. How would they have put a plot like this together?

Of course, this is something we've heard in many of these types of situations before, that they point -- people here who knew the men point and say, look, there must have been somebody else behind this who helped organize it for them.

BROWN: Well, each day over the last couple of days has brought a new revelation. We look to tomorrow to see what tomorrow brings.

Nic, thanks again. Nic Robertson, who's in Leeds tonight.

What happened in London, a city with surveillance cameras everywhere, a city familiar with terror bombings by the IRA is a reminder, an obvious one, perhaps, that such a thing could happen anywhere.

Which doesn't mean the results of the attack would be the same. An explosion, for example, on a New York City subway car, could make London look minuscule and 9/11 seem small.

Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The death toll in London was high. If a similar attack happened in New York City, it could be much higher.

NICHOLAS CASALE, FORMER MTA SECURITY OFFICER: We did studies that would estimate about 19,000 casualties.

FEYERICK: Nicholas Casale is a former cop. Two years ago, he was one of those in charge of security for the Metropolitan Transportation Authority. The MTA is a state agency that runs most of the city's trains and subways.

CASALE: Should terrorists breech the underwater tunnel, it would be a total collapse. That failure would allow billions of gallons of water to come rushing in. There would be no way to stop this.

FEYERICK: Casale says it's a vulnerability that should have and could have been fixed by now. He accuses the MTA of ignoring recommendations developed by the Army to reinforce tunnels and install flood gates and sensors.

CASALE: The federal government and state gave them $600 million in aid to secure the system. Let them explain to New Yorkers, and all Americans, how the most vital infrastructure is unprotected.

FEYERICK: That $600 million was allotted after 9/11. So far, less than 10 percent has been spent. But the MTA defends its efforts, saying it has spent $200 million of its own money to hire 200 police, install surveillance cameras and biochem detectors.

Ron Masciana is deputy chief in charge of MTA security.

RON MASCIANA, DEPUTY CHIEF OF SECURITY, MTA: I guarantee you that we're doing everything humanly possible to ensure the safety and security of our customers, of our employees and of our infrastructure.

FEYERICK: Casale is no longer with the MTA. He was fired after he uncovered corruption at the agency. He's suing for wrongful termination.

An MTA spokesman refused to comment on that matter.

(on camera) Is it fair to say that the MTA feels that you acted as quickly as possible in terms of assessing how that $600 million should be spent?

BRIAN DOLAN, MTA SPOKESMAN: Yes. We acted wisely, prudently and as -- as aggressively as possible.

FEYERICK: The Army, which developed the original security plan, signed a contract last June to help the MTA. An Army engineer says they have yet to be given the go ahead.

ANTHONY ANANIA, U.S. ARMY ENGINEER: I can't say specifically why we weren't engaged more fully, other than the fact that there are some differences in the way the military or the DOD acts.

FEYERICK: Without giving details, the MTA says it plans to begin spending the bulk of the $600 million and improve tunnel infrastructure by the end of this year, plans that could still take years to complete.

Deborah Feyerick, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: What was a turning point for Britain last week and a fear in New York these days, has been an ugly reality in Jerusalem for years. In the past decade, the city has seen more than two dozen suicide bus bombings. For a time, they seemed epidemic. But then, they dropped off, dramatically. Here's CNN's Guy Raz.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GUY RAZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Israel between 2000 and 2004. Suicide bus bombings were happening, sometimes weekly. More than 200 people were killed and thousands maimed.

The city of Jerusalem bore the brunt of the attacks. In 2002 alone, it wasn't uncommon for two bombings to happen on the same day in the city. And then, 18 months ago, the bus bombs, at least in Jerusalem, stopped.

GONEN COHEN, CHIEF OF JERUSALEM TRANSPORT SECURITY: I can tell you that the people in Jerusalem feel much safer now, to go in the buses. I can tell you that we didn't have a suicide bomber in the bus for more than a year. And I think that part of it, it's our job.

RAZ: His job, and his obsession, to prevent suicide bombers from boarding buses. Twenty-nine-year-old Gonen Cohen is in charge of security for Jerusalem's transit system. His casual outfit belies the nature of his job. Gonen Cohen works in plain clothes.

Over the past two years, he's assembled a security force of hundreds of young men and women who patrol the bus stops and the buses in the city.

COHEN: We're under pressure every day. Every day, we wake up in the morning thinking it's going to be today.

RAZ: To prevent that, security experts implemented a plan in 2003 to safeguard bus riders. By the beginning of that year, bomb- sniffing canine units were deployed at bus stops. Security officials won't get into specifics, but say these dogs have thwarted a number of attacks.

At the same time, the transit security team in Jerusalem also formed a tight relationship with Israel's equivalent of the FBI. All of these bus guards were equipped with two-way radios. On the other end, intelligence agents, who provide real-time information about possible bombers on the loose.

COHEN: I never feel relaxed because I know it comes on a shiny day, when you're not prepared.

RAZ: Six hundred buses accommodate about 600,000 Jerusalem commuters each day. That's about a tenth the number that operate in London or New York. It's the only mass transit option in the city.

But while bus bombings are less frequent now, the Israeli government admits it's almost impossible to totally prevent them.

(on camera) So, an enterprising Israeli company has come up with a possible solution, the bomb-proof bus. If a potential suicide bomber attempts to board the bus, the driver can simply shut them out.

(voice-over) The doors and windows are made of bomb-proof material, capable of withstanding a blast.

CHAIM SHAFIR, ISRAEL MILITARY INDUSTRIES: So, the main goal here is to leave the suicide bomber outside the bus.

RAZ: Within two months these armored buses will hit the streets of Jerusalem.

Practice, though, makes perfect. And security officials in Israel hold regular exercises simulating a suicide attack. They're trained, for example, how to disarm a suicide bomber.

Security Chief Gonen Cohen has worked abroad teaching his techniques. He won't say where, but he will say the methods can easily be employed by security agencies abroad.

COHEN: It can help in every place in the world. It's a question of how important it is for the government and this country specifically.

RAZ: Ultimately, though, he concedes Israel's security methods work, in part, because the country is small and well-prepared. In Jerusalem, more than a decade of suicide bombings has taught security officials vigilance, all in the hope of making bus travel here a safe, if dull, experience.

Guy Raz, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: More in a moment on what we know about what makes a suicide bomber.

First, at about a quarter past the hour, time for some of the other news of the day. We're joined again tonight by Erica Hill, who's in Atlanta -- Ms. Hill.

ERICA BROWN, HEADLINE NEWS: Mr. Brown, we're actually going to start off on the "Security Watch" tonight. The country's secretary of homeland security announcing a sweeping overhaul of his department. The changes are intended to settle turf wars and centralize the reading of intelligence and put a greater emphasis on fighting bioterrorism.

Up next, Los Angeles and the police shootout that ended in the death of the gunman and his young child, whom he was holding hostage and using as a shield. Tonight L.A.'s chief of police delivered this news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF WILLIAM BRATTON, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: Based on the preliminary investigation, it is my belief that the death of the child, death of the suspect, were at the hands of the Los Angeles Police Department. We anticipate that when the coroner releases his report, that that will be confirmed with additional details, toxicology, et cetera. But again, based on preliminary information that's available to me, over the last two days, including the presentation this afternoon, it is with great regret, as it relates to the death of this young child, that it appears that our officers, while engaged in their lawful duties, may have, in fact, taken her life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: This Sunday's incident was only the second time in the 38- year history of L.A. SWAT team that a hostage died. The findings of the LAPD's investigation will be reviewed by the D.A.'s office and a civilian police commission.

And Chief Justice William Rehnquist is in the hospital. He checked in there late last night, suffering from a fever. He is being held overnight for observation. Justice Rehnquist, as you'll recall, is 80 years old. He is also battling thyroid cancer.

And Aaron, that's the latest at this hour. Back over to you.

BROWN: Thank you. We'll check with you in a half an hour.

Coming up on the program tonight, more on the bombings in London and the fallout elsewhere, starting with a single question: what makes a person become a suicide bomber?

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): They are not who we think they are.

ROD NORDLAND, "NEWSWEEK" MAGAZINE: No. It would be nice if they were.

BROWN: So, who decides to kill and kill themselves trying? And how do we stop them before they do?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ignition and liftoff of Discovery.

BROWN: Also tonight, the liftoff that wasn't.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't want to run those pumps dry.

BROWN: Was the shuttle just a liftoff away from another disaster? And will it always be that way?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you heard about Senator Biden, Senator Clinton, John Kerry.

Brown: Biden, Clinton, Kerry. Hmm, must be a story about Rove. We'll look at the familiar Washington song and dance for both political parties.

And later, how dancing is done outside the Beltway. The film is called "Mad Hot Ball Room." This program is called NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: In London, at least 52 people are dead, 700 wounded, all victims of last week's terror attacks. That reality remains unchanged. What is profoundly different tonight is the understanding of the enemy. A deadly terrorist bombing is one thing. A suicide mission, something else entirely. But why?

Rod Nordland is correspondent at large for "Newsweek" magazine. He's covered the Palestinian conflict and the war in Iraq. And he's now in London. And we spoke with him earlier in the day.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Rod, if in fact it turns out, as it appears, that these were suicide bombers, how does that change the state of play, if you will, where terrorism in the west is concerned?

NORDLAND: I think we have to face the fact that we're in a completely new era. We have not had suicide bombers in the west, with the exception of the 9/11 attacks and one or two other minor exceptions. Certainly nothing on this scale. It's been entirely a Middle East phenomenon, in Israel and particularly in Iraq, on a very large scale. And with a few other places in the world, such as Sri Lanka. But never before in Western Europe.

BROWN: What's the difference between a timing device put on a train and a guy with a bomb strapped to himself, getting on the train?

NORDLAND: The guy with the bomb strapped to himself is impossible to stop. You can't -- you can't screen for him. You know, he can get past almost any kind of security. And he's impossible to defend against.

And what's particularly worrisome in this case is not only that you had a suicide bomber. But that you had suicide bombers who apparently were carrying charges that were almost impossible to detect, they were so small. Five pounds, it might have been as small as a transistor radio or something.

And if that's all it takes to get on mass transit and cause this sort of loss and life and disruption of the city that we saw recently, you know, we could be in for a very rough time if this sort of thing goes on.

BROWN: Understandably, I suppose we want to see these people as sort of poor, uneducated, economically-disadvantaged. But that's, generally speaking, not who they are.

NORDLAND: No, no. It would be nice if they were. I mean, that would be a little easier to understand. But in almost all cases that have surfaced, where the identity of the suicide bombers has been verified, it's turned out that they were relatively well-educated, relatively well-off people.

I think that's the case with the immigration -- with the British bombers, at least from what we know so far. At least one of them was a science graduate. A cricket player. You know, the others were -- although Pakistanis living in Britain, they were from relatively well- off homes and families.

In the case of the 9/11 bombers, they, too, were the sons of privilege. And in the few cases that identities have been established in Iraq, for instance, that, too, is the case, that they were from good families. Young people who really believed in what they were doing, however twisted. And didn't have to do that.

BROWN: Somewhere along the way someone has to persuade them that committing suicide in a terror attack is the way to go. Do we know anything about how they were indoctrinated?

NORDLAND: Well, in this particular case, no. But what we do know is that a very sophisticated and long, drawn out process of indoctrination is undergone or is imposed on the young men that they identify as potential suicide bombers. And they work very hard on it. There's a very -- there's a big structure, a big organization behind it.

They do things like provide for their families. They give them some -- even some cash inducement. One of the British bombers or one of the ones identified as a bomber had an 8-month-old baby at home. No doubt they made some kind of promise to him that his family would be taken care of.

BROWN: You use the word "they" there. That they teach them, they're well-organized, they are this. They are that. Who's the "they"?

NORDLAND: Yes, I mean the "they" is al Qaeda and al Qaeda-like groups. Salafist groups that have a Salafist philosophy like al Qaeda. I mean, it's hard to say for sure that this is an al Qaeda group. It certainly had all the hallmarks of an al Qaeda operation.

And what we've been seeing in Europe and elsewhere, too, is a kind of metastasis of the al Qaeda cancer, where other groups that have maybe even loose associations, maybe no association with al Qaeda, are still aping their methods and tactics, learning from them, trying to emulate them.

BROWN: It's good to see you. These are troubling developments. We appreciate your insight. Thank you.

NORDLAND: My pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: "Newsweek" magazine's Rod Nordland.

Coming up on the program tonight, Karl Rove under fire. How his allies are firing back, right on script.

Also ahead, the tango, the fox trot, the rumba, why they call it the "Mad Hot Ballroom." This is a wonderful summer piece on a wonderful summer night in New York. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BROWN: Well, it's going to be Saturday at the earliest before NASA tries again to launch the Space Shuttle Discovery.

Yesterday, a falling part nearly derailed the countdown. Today, it was another part, a fuel sensor, though it's a lot more complicated than the one in the old Camry. The fact is most everything about the shuttle is a lot more complicated than an old Camry. And older, too.

Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Two 1/2 years and $1.5 billion improvements later, it's still your father's space mobile. A craft that was oversold and underfunded from the get-go, the shuttle remains a temperamental beast, constantly testing the mettle of its masters.

WAYNE HALE, NASA PROGRAM DEPUTY MANAGER: All I can say is shucks. We came out here all set to go today. We've been working really hard to be ready to go. And we incurred a problem. It was clearly a launch criteria violation.

O'BRIEN: On this day, Discovery offered up a problem that screamed out for attention. A crucial sensor that detects when rocket fuel is running low, got stuck. Had the crew launched, the main engines might have shut down or run dry, a bad idea for the high- pressure pumps that can suck the contents of a swimming pool in 25 seconds.

HALE: And you don't want to run those pumps dry. At that point, you can do serious damage in the engines. We've never tested it. It's just a bad practice. And you don't want to do that.

O'BRIEN: And so it took mission managers about five minutes to decide not to light the candle and send the seven astronauts packing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There are long faces here in the control center and around the site. Everybody was so looking forward to flying today.

O'BRIEN: The shuttle engineers are now doing some serious trouble-shooting on Discovery, which first flew in 1984.

MICHAEL GRIFFIN, NASA ADMINISTRATOR: I had one mission back in the '80s for the Defense Department that scrubbed 14 times before we finally got it off the pad. This is nothing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three, two, one...

O'BRIEN: NASA boss Mike Griffin is philosophical about the scrubs. And practical about the aging, fragile shuttle fleet. He is determined to send the three remaining shuttles to the Smithsonian by 2010, to clear the way for a new generation of space vehicles that will take U.S. astronauts back to the moon and on to Mars. RANDY AVERA, FORMER NASA ENGINEER: So we have to rethink our whole national plan, about where we invest our money, our time, and our labor and our most important resource, which are the American people. And it's not only we the people looking for that answer and solution, it's our international partners wanting to know what we're going to do about that, as well.

O'BRIEN: And that is the rub: NASA is committed to building the International Space Station with 15 other partner nations. Up until now, the space shuttles have done all the heavy lifting. But administrator Griffin is looking at ways to use unmanned rockets for the station, for example, leaving the shuttles with a pared down schedule.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We think we can get around 20 flights out by the 2010 retirement date that President Bush has required. And we're looking right now to see what those flights should carry, what the assembly sequence for the International Space Station should be, given that flight sequence, all that sort of thing. We think about 20.

O'BRIEN: Four flights a year is about average for the space shuttle fleet over the 24-year history of the program. But the orbiters are not getting any younger. And the problems will keep cropping up.

Mike Griffin says he will trim the flight schedule, rather than delaying the retirement date. It is the beginning of an end of an era, and some would say it's long past due.

Miles O'Brien, CNN, at the Kennedy Space Center, Florida.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Lori Garver joins us tonight. She's an aerospace consultant and until 2001, an associate administrator for policy and planning at NASA. She's in Washington.

Good to see you. Is this a small, medium or at least, potentially large problem they dealt with today?

LORI GARVER, FORMER NASA ADMINISTRATOR: We hope it's a small one and if they can launch again, make another attempt on Saturday, that will be definitely be the case.

If they do have to go back and roll the shuttle back into the vehicle assembly building, as they talked about early today, in order to find the solution to this problem, we have a -- only a window to launch by July 31st and then, it will be delayed until September.

That international space station that Miles O'Brien talked about, is waiting for the space shuttle and we need to get on with it soon. So, we hope it's a small one, but it could be a medium; most likely not large.

BROWN: When we talked to you earlier, you said that they were aware of the sensor issue, going back to spring, to April. GARVER: Yes. And in the tanking test in April, they had a similar reading and in fact, what they opted to do at that time -- they postponed the launch and rolled the shuttle back to the vehicle assembly building and changed out the tank itself.

So, this is a new tank. They had run the test, not had the sensor problem, and now, here we are again seeing it. So, that's why I think you're seeing the long faces. This isn't just a simple glitch, possibly and they may, indeed -- they will certainly get to the bottom of it before they attempt another launch.

BROWN: All right. Let me play this back, the non-engineer, because I am and I want make sure I understand it. This tank or this sensors in one of the fuel tanks and all these sensors are -- there's a bunch of fuel tanks and all these sensors are in them and maybe it's one bad sensor in a fuel tank, it is the sensors themselves that are bad? And they are in all the fuel tanks?

GARVER: That is -- it could be a systemic problem. One of the things that happened after the Columbia accident, was that they changed some things about the tanks themselves.

So, if now we're seeing this in two, different tanks, the fear would be: Possibly we changed something on the tanks that is affecting it. More than likely, that is not the case. Sensor problems have been endemic to the shuttle over the years.

As you heard, the NASA administrator say, we've run launch attempts for dozens of times on specific launches. So, again, it doesn't have to be a big deal, but there could be a systemic problem and NASA will get to the bottom of it.

BROWN: What do you think the chances are it flies on Saturday?

GARVER: I'd give it 50 percent.

BROWN: Lori, it's good to talk to you. Thank you very much.

GARVER: Thank you.

BROWN: Lori Garver, formerly of NASA.

Still ahead on the program, a master of the universe is heading for the big house and we don't mean, in this case, a waterfront mansion.

Also, the case of Karl Rove and the blatant political attacks. So, who is doing the blatant political attacking around here and where does Bill Clinton enter the picture? It had to happen and it has.

And this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

The Karl Rove-Bob Novak-Valerie Plame-Matt Cooper matter past a milestone today: The longest running scandal not to have the word "gate" stuck on the end of it.

Matt Cooper did testified before a grand jury in Washington. Judith Miller is in her second week in jail. In most respects though, its playing out precisely to form. Those who know, are not talking. Everyone else is either speculating or spinning.

Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN WILLIAM, "ABC NEWS": It was the topic of the day again today at the White House.

WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "WOLF BLITZER REPORTS": Karl Rove and the probe.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is he distancing himself from Rove?

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): If there's one point about the Rove case on which there's new universal agreement it's this: If it is seen as partisan or ideological battle, he will almost surely survive. And if there are any doubts, just watch how hard Republicans are working to be sure that, that is what it looks like. The president today, stuck to the "it's under investigation" response.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're in the midst of an ongoing investigation.

GREENFIELD: And then, Presidential Spokesman Scott McClellan spent another day in the barrel.

QUESTION: The reality is that you're parsing words and you've been doing it for few days now. So, does the president think Karl Rove did something wrong or doesn't he?

GREENFIELD: But Top Republicans were following the lead of National Chair Ken Mehlman, who relentlessly offered the first talking points circulated Tuesday by the Republican National Committee. The point: The Democrats are engaging in blatant, partisan political attacks. Listen to part of Mehlman's very first answer to Wolf Blitzer, Tuesday night.

KEN MEHLMAN, GOP CHAIRMAN: What we're seeing that's unprecedented, is the fact that people like John Kerry, someone who ran for president; Hillary Clinton, former first lady; Howard Dean, the chairman of the Democrat party, would follow the angry left.

GREENFIELD: A few moments later...

MEHLMAN: And the political smear is people -- John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Howard Dean and others...

GREENFIELD: And a few moments later...

MEHLMAN: Unlike Mrs. Clinton, Unlike Chairman Dean... GREENFIELD: And just in case the message wasn't clear...

MEHLMAN: Senator Clinton and you heard from John Kerry...

GREENFIELD: Meanwhile, over on MSNBC's "Hardball," former Bush aide Tucker Eskew offered this assessment.

TUCKER ESKEW, FMR. BUSH AIDE: Please don't forget Joe Wilson is a Kerry supporter, a Kerry donor and now, he's got Howard Dean and Hillary Clinton and John Kerry all today, at his side defending the Joe Wilson argument.

GREENFIELD (on camera): Now, if this tactic seems familiar, it should. It was used quite effectively by the last White House when it came under assault and for the same reasons. If you can persuade your supporters to concentrate on who is attacking you, rather than on what they're saying, it's a lot less likely that your troops will defect.

(voice-over): When the allegations about President Clinton's behavior were reaching critical mass, his wife went on TV with a now- famous rebuttal.

HILLARY CLINTON, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: This vast right-wing conspiracy that has been conspiring against my husband since the day he announced for president.

BILL CLINTON, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I never should have misled the country.

GREENFIELD: The allegations, it turned out, were true. Clinton's denials were somewhere between misleading and outright false.

But Democrats stuck by him, unwilling to give his and their political adversaries a victory. And his presidency was saved.

REP. NANCY PELOSI, (D) MINORITY LEADER: No person who has divulged the name of a CIA covert operative should be in the employ of the United States government.

GREENFIELD: And in the Rove matter, the more the prominent Democrats demand his ouster, rather than simply asking that all the facts be laid out, the more the Republicans' fondest hope that this be seen as a political struggle, rather than the issue about the conduct of White House officials, is likely to be realized.

(on camera): Someday, perhaps, in the middle of a future fight like this one, all the prominent players will step forward and say, we don't give a damn about motives, political loyalties or the next election, we just want to know what happened. Don't hold your breath.

Jeff Greenfield, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Up next, kids today, they're into lurid chat rooms, violent video games and ballroom dancing? Yep. That story just a fox trot away. In New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Well, badly-need story to make you smile. In a moment, kids learning how to dance. It's a terrific tale. First, at about a quarter til the hour, time to check back with Erica Hill in Atlanta with some of the day's other news. Ms. Hill.

HILL: Mr. Brown -- it is a terrific tale. I can't wait to see the movie, actually. There's something for everybody to look forward to.

But before you can get to that, you're going to have to sit through headlines. And we're going to start things off with a former master of the new economy, who is soon to be, well, just another federal prisoner. He went in like a lion, shoving cameras on the way into court. But just moments later, it was a very different Bernie Ebbers at his sentencing today.

The former CEO of Worldcom, sniffling and sweeping, as a judge gave him 25 years in prison for his role in orchestrating the largest corporate fraud in American history. He could have gotten 85.

Things getting personal today in the Senate. Massachusetts Democrat Edward Kennedy called the words of Pennsylvania Republican Rick Santorum, irresponsible, insensitive and inexcusable. Kennedy cited an article Santorum wrote blaming Boston's liberal bent for the sex abuse scandal in its Catholic diocese.

In West Virginia, a karmic thank you. Fifteen workers for FEMA, the federal disaster agency -- they've seen plenty of bad luck on the job, but now for them, a bit of the other kind. They bought a Lotto ticket. They hit it rich. And they're going to be splitting $5.8 million.

Not too shabby. And they deserve it.

And just a quick reminder for you here. They won't have to use any of that money when they go to CNN.com to see the best video online, because it's all free wherever they want. There it is.

BROWN: Look at the money they could save for Lottery tickets.

HILL: You know? That's an excellent point.

BROWN: Yes. Thank you. You ought to come up and visit us one of these days.

HILL: I'm planning to very soon.

BROWN: Thank you. Look forward to that.

On we go here. You could be the worst dancer in the world and still know this -- there are times when you just got to do it anyway. Not because it's your wedding day or the prom, not because the preacher says you can't, but simply because you can. Because dancing is the language, of joy of being alive. Even as some of us only partake once a decade in a foreign country.

Think about that as we reintroduce you to a bunch of school kids here in New York City. The stars of a film that's been heating up theaters all summer long. "Mad, Hot Ball Room."

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, six -- five, six, here we go.

MARILYN AGRELO, DIRECTOR AND CO-PRODUCER: We started shooting in mid-February of 2004. And we shot until the final competition. We started out with the aim of doing a story about the ball room dance program.

AMY SEWELL, CO-PRODUCER AND WRITER: It became about 11-year-olds growing up in New York City and revealing pieces of themselves along this journey.

AGRELO: Our aim was to create a film that was superintimate. And so that the viewer is almost like a kid. So, the whole film is at their eye level. And so that we move seamlessly in and out while they're dancing, while they're talking, while they're hanging out, to create this very intimate presence with them.

We were able to contrast so many different groups and cultures and backgrounds. The Benson Hearst School (ph) is essentially a very mixed bag: Asian, Italian-American and Muslim. And they're pretty much working-class kids. In some ways we always thought of them as very pure group of little kids who were more representative, I think, of American kids.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hasn't been invented.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; My favorite dance is the merengue, isn't it.

AGRELO: The Washington Heights School was a school that is an immigrant population. A little bit economically disadvantaged. And facing challenges that were not present in the other neighborhoods. But what they do have is this amazing, amazing affinity and ability to dance. And it's just part of their culture.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE; It's tough. Because everybody wants to compete. But when you have a sturdy team, not only to make me proud, but for themselves and to represent their school and to represent their country.

AGRELO: We love that group. And we loved their teacher, who was so passionate.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Very nice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The swing.

AGRELO: And the Tribeca kids were so fascinating and so interesting because, again, another really mixed bag, culturally. Very diverse. But with such a verbal ability. They were the ones that astonished us with a lot of the things they said and a lot of the things they revealed.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do know that boys think about girls.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not dancing with Emma, she tries to lead me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dancing with Emma...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In ballroom dancing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ballroom dancing?

SEWELL: One of the things the program emphasizes besides dancing, learning how to social dance, is manage, respect and courtesy. I think what we saw was a transformation from 11-year-olds acting like kids, to little ladies and gentlemen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five, six -- ready, go.

ARGELO: I was always thinking, of course, we're not going to have the winning team. But this is not a story about winning or losing. This is a story about the journey.

The day of the final competition, at the Winter Garden, was a big, big, big day for us. Because it was the culmination and the climax of our story. There were nine teams competing for the gold. And competing, then, for the giant trophy.

SEWELL: When you look at these three schools, they had strong teachers and strong principals who were willing to guide these children and lead them into areas where they haven't been before.

ARGELO: I still don't consider it really a story about winning or losing, or a story about competition, or necessarily a story about dance for that matter. You know, for us, it's a story about getting into the intimate minds of kids.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I love that.

The health benefit of hot dogs, just one of the headlines in "Morning Papers" next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Okey doke. Time to check "Morning Papers" from around the country and around the world. If there's a consensus lead today, it's Iraq. "Bomber Kills Iraqi Children: Perpetrator Targeted Giveaway of Candy and Toys." My God. "Washington Times" leads that way.

Down here, OK? "Ballpark Franks" -- or rather, Ballpark fare frankly good for you. According to a report, you cannot make this up, by the American Chemical Society. You just -- it doesn't get better than that. Oh, my goodness. OK.

The British papers are nothing to laugh at. "The Sun," "Bomber Was a Teacher." "The Guardian," "The Bomber, Boy Who Didn't Stand Out: the Victim, Modern and Still Traditional."

"Cincinnati Inquirer" has a NASCAR story as its lead. "Kentucky Speadway Sues NASCAR." Down here. "Priest Charged With Sex Crimes: Exwhite Oak Pastor Denies Claim." Now, will Rick Santorum claim that it's the liberal sex habits in Ohio that caused these things? That's a wacky thing to say, I thought.

"Dallas Morning News," "Their Killing Our Children." The Iraq story, prominently played on the front age. "Hockey Celebrates End of Cold War, after losing 2004-'05 season, NHL players and owners reach an agreement."

Hockey time is the way "The Detroit News" says it.

While we're on the sports theme -- how are we doing on time, Wilson? 45 seconds. Thank you, sir. "Christian Science Monitor." "Can Islam's Leaders Reach its Radicals? No. Hard-line Islamists are increasingly isolated from mainstream Muslims" one of the stories. But the one that caught my eye, and catches my heart a bit too, "One last golden moment for golf's golden bear, Jack Nicklaus playing the British Open. It will be his last major." So, he'll be teeing it up in St. Andrews in just a few hours. And with luck -- well, with luck and good play, he'll make the cut and be there on Sunday. That would be kind of nice.

15 seconds. In that case, we go to "The Chicago Sun Times." "Welcome back Potter." Get it? New Harry Potter book coming out. And the weather tomorrow in Chicago by the way -- sultry.

Picture of the day when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AARON BROWN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (VOICE OVER): A polish shipyard worker with a passion for freedom. Lech Walesa's fiery determination inspired Poland's solidarity trade union and the eventual fall of the Iron Curtain. For his efforts against communism, Walesa earned the Nobel Peace Prize and some powerful allies. The electrician from Gdansk and the ear of the free world.--

LECH WALESA (through translator): Freedom is a human right.

BROWN: In 1989, Poland formed the first non-communist government in the Soviet Bloc, and Lech Walesa was elected the first president. But the confrontational style that made Walesa a great revolutionary, made him a controversial president. He lost re-election five years later. Walesa turned 62 years-old this year. The father of eight is now a grandfather and still lives in Gdansk. After a failed bid for the polish presidency in 2000, Walesa turned his attention to political struggles outside Poland -- from Taiwan, to the recent election issues in Ukraine. He also founded the Lech Walesa Institute to Preserve the Spirit of Solidarity, in Poland and around the world.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: OK. Time for tonight's picture of the day as selected by our team of esteemed judges. It comes to us from the oil-producing nation of Qatar, or Qatar, however you wish. These are robotic jockeys. They used to use children, but that's been outlawed. Now, they use robots. You can use technology for good, or for sport.

See you tomorrow at 10:00 Eastern time. Good night for all of us.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com