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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Police Learn More about London Bombers; Soldier Narrowly Escapes Death; Doctors Say Lance Armstrong Has Genetic Advantage

Aired July 18, 2005 - 20:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AARON BROWN, HOST: Good evening again.
In some ways, it is remarkable how much we know about the four terrorists responsible for the London bombings. And in some respects, how intriguing are the questions that remain.

The most basic questions, were they meant to be suicide bombers at all or were they duped? Who recruited them? Who built the bombs?

And then there is this one: Why is it that in this attack, like so many others over the last years, all roads seem to lead back to Pakistan?

Reporting for us tonight, CNN's Nic Robertson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Pictures of two men who would become the London bombers, arriving at Karachi Airport in Pakistan last year. Shahzad Tanweer and Mohammed Sidique Khan from Leeds, England, going through passport control in November, according to Pakistani officials.

From page news in Pakistan, but what were the young men, British citizens of Pakistani origin, doing in that country? Is this the al Qaeda link British investigators have been talking about?

JALIL ABBAS JILANI, SPOKESMAN, PAKISTAN FOREIGN MINISTER: It would not be prudent to either prejudge, speculate, or to do anything that would prejudice the results of the investigation.

ROBERTSON: Pakistani officials say Tanweer and Khan left on the 8th of February this year. What's not clear: what they did during their visit.

The next place the bombers show up on a publicly released security picture is here, at Luton Train Station just north of London, an hour and a half before the bombing. With them, the youngest of the bombers, Hasib Hussain, also from Leeds, and Germaine Lindsay, of Jamaican descent, a recent convert to Islam.

(voice-over) It's what happened before the two suspect bombers got this here what remains a mystery. Where did they meet? Who brought the bombs?

Once they were here, though, they were on track to kill. (on camera) They rode this train, the 7:40 a.m. from Luton to King's Cross. Within half an hour of it arriving on the 7th of July, three bombs would explain. Hussain's would go off on a bus more than an hour after the other. What was he doing? Did his bomb malfunction?

PETER CLARKE, ANTI-TERRORIST POLICE: The question I'm asking the public, is, did you see this man at King's Cross? Was he alone or with others? Do you know the route he took from the station?

ROBERTSON: The Number 30 bus has now been removed, but the road remains sealed, as police search for more clues. And although homemade explosives have been identified as the material in the bombs, who built them is yet another open question.

SIR IAN BLAIR, METROPOLITAN POLICE COMMISSIONER: What we've got to find is the people who trained them, people who made the bombs, the people who financed it.

ROBERTSON: In Leeds, police are targeting homes of the bombers and focusing much attention on community centers. Thirty-year-old Khan is emerging as mentor to the two younger bombers, Tanweer and Hussain.

The question here: was there a master mind? Is that person planning another strike?

BLAIR: I do feel London could suffer another attack.

ROBERTSON: Germaine Lindsay, the fourth bomber, is the strangest fit in the puzzle so far. Why did he convert to Islam?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was at the end of year ten over the six weeks holiday that he got a break from school and he came back with this totally different attitude.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And said he was a Muslim.

ROBERTSON (on camera): What brought Lindsay from his roots here in Haddisfield into contact with the other three suspected bombers 25 miles away in Leeds is an answer that will likely solve some questions.

(voice-over) Finding an answer to that will shed light on how the cell worked. Beyond all these, though, many, many more questions remain unanswered. What will it take to solve them? The answer is simple, police say. A long time.

Nic Robertson, CNN, London.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: There are questions tonight and then there is this: a paradox. The two countries that many believe have birthed, nurtured, funded, and harbored more extremists and terrorists than any other are our allies: Saudi Arabia and Pakistan. A simple fact, but not so simple repercussions.

Sajjan Gohel is the director of international security analysis at the Asia Pacific Foundation, and we talked with him earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Would you say that, at least as you view the situation, the Pakistanis have been, where the war on terror is concerned, more talk than action?

SAJJAN GOHEL, DIRECTOR, INTERNATIONAL SECURITY ANALYSIS, ASIA PACIFIC FOUNDATION: I think we have to look at the fact that since September 11, the leading members, or figures of al Qaeda have all been caught in major cities, urban heartlands, inside Pakistan, not in the mountainous caves, as the government of Pakistan likes to report.

And they've all been caught by the intelligence of the FBI and the CIA. None of these arrests have ever taken place because the Pakistanis themselves have actually discovered where they were actually hiding.

And we've got to look at the fact that the religious schools are still operating. They're collecting funds for terrorist activity. The fact is that the Taliban are milling around on the border. They're going into Afghanistan, launching attacks.

So I say very little has actually been done by the Pakistanis in the war on terror.

BROWN: I think -- I don't think, actually. I know this; you said it to me. What President Musharraf would say, whether he's talking about the religious schools, or is talking about even more broadly a crackdown, is that it's a very complicated place, and that the radicals or the fundamentalists have a lot of sympathy there, and, that the best strategy is to go slowly, do what you can, but that if you really crack down, you're going to create more problems than you solve.

GOHEL: Every single terrorist attack that's taken place since 9/11 seems to have had its genesis from within Pakistan.

Now, Musharraf is the military dictator of the country. He controls the situation. He can clamp down if he really wants to. We can talk about it being a delicate situation, but if he's not able to get a proper grip on it, then what use is he?

Pakistan is getting some $3 billion in aid. They have to justify all that money. They have to be able to clamp down on these individuals.

Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, the British individual, British Pakistani that killed Daniel Pearl, his death sentence was passed three years. It's still not been implemented. There are stories that he's actually recruited young prison guards to join the terror network. Now when you hear about cases like this and A.Q. Khan, the Pakistani scientist who's been proliferating to other countries and perhaps even to al Qaeda, what use is a general who's in a strong position in the war on terrorism? I mean, his purpose is really in question.

BROWN: Let me suggest he is perhaps afraid of his own intelligence service.

GOHEL: Well, we do know that the ISI, the Pakistani intelligence agency, has a notorious reputation. It's seen as a state within a state. They control the situation very effectively. They operate throughout the country and they, of course, have had strong linkages with al Qaeda and the Taliban in the past.

But Musharraf is the head of state. He is the head of the armed forces. He has rooted out people in the past that have perhaps posed a threat to his own regime.

Now if he is scared, Aaron, then again, the question remains is he really the right person in the position to help in the war on terrorism? Let's not forget, bin Laden, Ayman al-Zawahiri, are still believed to be hiding in Pakistan. Are we going to trust an individual who perhaps isn't in control to deliver these two individuals?

Still, after 9/11, we have still not found them. Media agencies from Al Jazeera are able to interview them on a regular basis, but the Pakistani military can't? That does sound strange

BROWN: I'll give you that. It does sound strange. Mr. Gohel, good to talk to you. Thanks a lot.

GOHEL: My pleasure.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Sajjan Gohel. We talked with him earlier today.

There are indelible images of the 7th of July. A young woman in a burn mask, a businessman with a look of determination on a bloodied face. And for Americans, especially, two young women, Emily and Katie Benton, 20 and 21 years old, who are recovering tonight at Duke University Medical Center in North Carolina. Recovering and remembering.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATTY BENTON, MOTHER OF WOUNDED DAUGHTERS: It was really hard for me to sit there and listen to it and think of the images that my daughters will carry in their minds for the rest of their lives. You know, they've lost their innocence in a way that most people, none of us will ever have to experience.

I won't lie to you and say that there's not anxiety there, or that they're not having flashbacks or, you know, that there's not some emotional stuff that they're going to have to deal with. It's not just the physical healing. It's the emotional healing, as well.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: That said the physical injuries were not life threatening: broken feet and hands and shrapnel wounds. There were and will be serious and delicate stuff ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Doctor Levin, how extensive are their injuries and are they vastly different or are they similar?

DR. SCOTT LEVIN, DUKE UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Actually, it's interesting. Both ladies had injuries to their feet: Emily to her left foot, and Emily's injuries were more extensive because she had bony loss or bony injury of a bone we call the metatarsal bone, which is proximal, if you will, to the great toe.

Katie, on the other hand, had a similar devastating injury to her foot, but only involved what he call soft tissue, or the envelope around the bones and the joints.

But both of these ladies required very extensive microvascular reconstructive surgery for limb salvage.

BROWN: A year from now, will they be as they were, essentially?

LEVIN: Well, that's a loaded question, Mr. Brown. Certainly, they're going to have physical scars. Emily, certainly, will be walking, I think, shorter than a year.

Will they be the same ladies? Obviously not, going through trauma like this. But they both have incredible resiliency. They're incredibly determined young women. They have great family support.

Working with our colleagues in Great Britain, I think their medical and their surgical pathway, if you will, has been done extremely well, and, so, I think they're going to put this much of this behind both of them sooner than a year, although the emotional aspects of this, as you can imagine, will last a lifetime.

BROWN: Good to talk to you. Good for your work, too. Thank you, sir.

LEVIN: Thank you. Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: That's the London story for tonight. Onto Iraq. Within the last day or so, 24 more deaths reported in Iraq just today. This weekend was especially bad. The ambushes and the car bombings go on and on. Those are the headlines.

But wars are never just about headlines, anymore than wars are just about government decisions or a general strategy. Wars are never just about the big picture, and this war story isn't either. It is about one man, a single soldier, who by all rights should have been a casualty screen, but turned out to be something else. And hear the pictures do tell the story.

Here's CNN's Alina Cho.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The camera rolls. From their hidden position, the insurgent snipers are watching their victim.

"Go ahead, shoot him in the name of God," says one.

"I am waiting for him to straighten up," says the other.

Their target, this American soldier, Private First Class Stephen Tschiderer from Mendon, New York.

What comes next is this. And as the snipers chant "God is great," Private Tschiderer gets back on his feet. With rifle in hand, he takes cover.

Debbie Tschiderer believes it's a miracle her son is alive.

DEBBIE TSCHIDERER, SOLDIER'S MOTHER: The bullet grazed his thumb, and because it grazed his thumb, it went in at an angle.

CHO: And never penetrated his bulletproof vest.

PFC STEPHEN TSCHIDERER, U.S. ARMY: I kind of opened up my vest, and I'm like, all right, no blood, good to go. Let's go get them.

CHO: Less than a minute after Tschiderer is shot, his unit takes the offensive. Humvees rolling toward them, the snipers realize they are now in danger.

"Hurry, hurry, get out," says one.

What you cannot see on the tape is the foot chase that follows. Private Tschiderer, fueled adrenaline, hunts down and catches the match who shot him. He even tends to the sniper's wounds, the man who, moments earlier, tried to kill him.

S. TSCHIDERER: It's part of the job. I'm a medic. He put down his arms. He's no threat. I mean, there's no excuse not to.

CHO: A few days later, when Stephen told his parents about his close call, they were scared and relieved. And then he told them about the tape.

D. TSCHIDERER: I said, "What do you mean there's a video?"

He goes, "Mom, they taped the whole thing."

"Why?" "For training. I wasn't supposed to live. It was for training."

CHO: It took some time before parents John and Debbie finally got the courage to watch.

D. TSCHIDERER: It was the sound, more than the actual action. And to hear the Iraqis talking about my son and to have him in their sights, for me, the initial feeling was anger.

And then -- then I started sobbing hysterically. I mean, it just -- it was amazing to see how close, how close it came. I said, "Steve, they were laughing."

He said, "No, Mom, they were praying." That's what he said. "When we go into battle, we play. So do they."

We keep the dialogue up, because, you know, as you can see, you're back and forth, back and forth, back and forth.

CHO: The Tschiderers are in constant touch with their son via online instant messages.

Did you ask him for you, dear? Come say hello.

JOHN TSCHIDERER, FATHER: He's leaving in 10 minutes to go on patrol.

CHO: How often do you tell him to stay down?

J. TSCHIDERER: All the time.

CHO: These instant communications give the Tschiderers some peace of mind. The photos he sends help, too. Like this, showing the bruise on his chest. This one, showing the sniper's weapon. And this, Stephen's damaged flak jacket.

He's due to come home in late September. I asked him how anxious he was. He replied, "I'm counting the days, and it's still more than one, so it's too far."

D. TSCHIDERER: We were starting to think that OK, we can do this. He'll be home soon. And it all just kind of, was put right back into perspective what these guys go through every single day. And it's hard. It's hard. This brought it all home.

CHO: Alina Cho, CNN, Mendon, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: In a moment, the heart and the body of a champion, Lance Armstrong, medical miracle.

But first, at a quarter past the hour, if we talk real fast, Erica Hill is in Atlanta with the day's other news. Good evening, Ms. Hill.

ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS: You made it in under the cut there.

Life in prison, two consecutive terms. That is what Eric Rudolph will serve for the 1998 bombing of a Birmingham, Alabama, abortion clinic which killed an off duty police officer and maimed a nurse. Before he was sentenced by federal judge today, Rudolph defended the bombing, saying it was his moral duty to stop abortions.

Four weeks before the Israeli government plans to begin pulling settlers and troops from Gaza, thousands began a three-day protest, but not as many as organizers had hoped. They predicted some 50,000 to 100,000 demonstrators would reach the gathering place just outside Gaza, but police were able to block more than 1,000 buses from leaving dozens of cities across Israel.

Not far from Niagara Falls today, a cattle call for Canadian cattle, that is. The 35 Black Angus represent the first bovine shipment from north of the border in two years. A ban, originally put in place because of Mad Cow Disease, was lifted last Thursday by a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals.

And 6.9 million. That's how many copies of the new Harry Potter were sold in its first 24 hours, nine million if you combine U.S. and British sales. After "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" went on sale at 12:01 Saturday morning, it broke all publishing records. Scholastics Books has already offered a second printing on top of the unprecedented 10.8 million copies the first time around.

And, of course, Saturday and Sunday, a lot of tired adults and kids alike from staying up all night reading the book.

BROWN: Yes, well, I remember when my daughter was young enough to -- we had to ship it off to camp, FedEx.

HILL: The book?

BROWN: Yes.

HILL: You guys weren't that young, though.

BROWN: Now she just wants to drive.

Thank you, we'll see you in a half an hour.

Much more on the program tonight. We've got the Rove/Cooper/Plame/Miller mess, and what the president said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration.

BROWN: That's not what he said before, before people were demanding that Karl Rove step down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: His credibility's in tatters on a very important national security matter. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One-two-four Charlie, what's his location?

BROWN: For thousands of cops every day, the last line of defense: bullet proof vests. The problem is, many of them aren't bullet proof.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, now, they are going around with a question mark in their mind about if I'm shot, is this vest going to stop a bullet?

BROWN: And who's to blame if it doesn't?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy's a super hero.

LINDA ARMSTRONG KELLY, LANCE ARMSTRONG'S MOTHER: Is Lance superhuman? That's a question everyone has asked.

BROWN: He's possibly the best endurance athlete in the world and different from just about everyone else on the planet.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Probably less than one percent of the population would have as much as a genetic head start as Armstrong has.

BROWN: Tonight, the science of winning.

Halfway around the world from the Tour de France, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: And a hot, steamy night in the city.

The fact that he's won the world's most grueling cycling competition six times in a row is one clue that Lance Armstrong is not like the rest of us. And now at the age of 33, he's within striking distance again.

While Armstrong isn't quite over the hill, chronologically speaking, he's not a kid any more, either. And yet, there is no one who tears up hills like he does. Like we said, he's not like the rest of us.

Here's CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He's possibly the best endurance athlete in the world. Most of us know Lance Armstrong's name, but few know how he does it. It all starts with his genes.

EDWARD COYLE, UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS: With Lance, we found that in the untrained state, he would be about as fit as an average person who trained as hard as he could. Ever. So Lance's lowest level is the level that a normal person could achieve with years and years of intense training.

GUPTA: Edward Coyle is director of the human performance lab at the University of Texas in Austin. World record holders, Olympic medalists and promising elite athletes all come here to increase their performance. At the young age of 21, Lance Armstrong was one of them. Coyle evaluated his physiology regularly for seven years.

COYLE: We found that, even at a young age, because of his intense training, he had a big engine, a big heart, and was able to consume large amounts of oxygen. Probably less than one percent of the population would have as much of a genetic head start as Armstrong has.

GUPTA: Lance Armstrong's physiology characteristics are nothing short of astounding.

His heart, it can pump nine gallons of blood per minute, working at its hardest, compared to only five gallons per minute for the average person. In one minute of maximum exertion, Armstrong's heart can beat twice that of a normal person.

His lungs, he gets almost double the amount of oxygen out of every breath that a healthy 20-year-old would. Everyone takes in the same breath, but Armstrong uses his two times more efficiently.

He also has more red blood cells to deliver oxygen to his body, meaning he can breathe better at higher altitudes. And that's a key in the treacherous Pyrenees and Alps mountains along the route of the Tour De France.

His muscles, Lance's muscles produced less lactic acid than most people, which means his muscles can go longer and harder without major fatigue.

COYLE: An average person when going to exhaustion would have to stay stopped or wouldn't be able to move for, you know, for 10, 15 minutes. Well, Armstrong is able to recover within just a couple of minutes, within one or two, and then go right back up to maximum.

You know, that's why you'll see him repeatedly trying to break away and then eventually succeeding in breaking away from the entire pack of riders in the Tour De France.

GUPTA: While Lance may have the genetics and conditioning of a world class athlete, he has also had cancer lingering in his genes. He was diagnosed with the disease before ever winning the Tour De France.

COYLE: Lance visited the laboratory eight months after finishing chemo, and, essentially, we found nothing wrong with his body. And that really helped him in giving him the confidence that he could pick up right where he left off.

GUPTA: All of this can ultimately make many people think Armstrong is super human.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The guy is a super hero.

GUPTA: That's a question his mother has heard many times before.

KELLY: Is Lance super human? That's a question everyone has asked. He didn't get that way sitting on the couch eating potato chips. So lots of hard work, a lot of dedication.

GUPTA: In fact, Armstrong trains at least six hours a day. And for the Tour De France, which spans less than four weeks, he begins training eight months before its July start date.

LANCE ARMSTRONG, CYCLING CHAMPION: What if I keep going?

GUPTA: That's an average of 450 miles per week, a distance of about halfway around the globe pedaled during the season of training. All that for what would be seven straight Tour wins.

ARMSTRONG: Seven is different than one or different than three or different than six. It's really -- it's not a record. It's not -- it would be, I guess, the continuant of a record or it would be historic in some sense. But it didn't hold -- it doesn't hold the cache that six did.

What's important is that I still love what I do. I still -- I still go out and kill myself on six-hour bike rides.

GUPTA: From every beat to every breath, Lance Armstrong has certainly had a genetic head start. But at 33, it's his training and his inherent physiology that will carry him to this year's finishing line.

Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

In a moment, Karl Rove takes more fire, what his boss is saying, what it would take to fire him.

And later, a new twist in the case of Natalee Holloway. A break, first. Around the world this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: The Rove/Cooper/Plame/Novak/Miller mess continues to unfold. When does a leak become a crime is the question at the center of the investigation, and now focusing on White House adviser Karl Rove.

There are other questions as well, where the White House is concerned. Two years ago, when the story broke -- two years ago -- President Bush went on record about the consequences for White House leakers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Listen, I know of nobody -- I don't know of anybody in my administration who leaked classified information. If somebody did leak classified information, I'd like to know it, and we'll take the appropriate action. This investigation is a good thing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Today, with a growing number of Democrats calling for Karl Rove to step down, the president said this, when asked about the CIA leak investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BUSH: I don't know all the facts. I want to know all the facts. Best place for the facts to be done is by somebody whose spending time investigating it. I would like this to end as quickly as possible so we know the facts. And, if someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Whether or nor a crime was committed may hinge on a fairly subtle point of law, or, it might be a dead cinch. At this point nobody but the special prosecutor, Mr. Fitzgerald knows for sure. Then again in Washington, nobody ever let a little thing like not knowing lead to something really dumb, like not saying anything for or against Karl Rove. Here's CNN's Jeff Greenfield.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KEN MEHLMAN, RNC CHAIRMAN: They have attacked Karl Rove on the basis of information that actually vindicates and exonerates him, not implicates him.

JOHN PODESTA, CENTER FOR AMERICAN PROGRESS: His credibility is in tatters. On a very important national security matter.

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: They want to get rid of him and they want to damage the president in the process.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: His clearance, his security clearance ought to be suspended.

JEFF GREENFIELD, CNN SENIOR ANALYST (voice over): If you were Diogenes searching the Washington landscape this week for a dispassionate, detached account of the Karl Rove story, you better bring a sturdy pair of shoes. But best of all, there's not a story at all, but two radically different narratives. Both of which deal with an absence of key facts by simply assuming the motives and intentions of the players. To Karl Rove supporters, his adversaries hate him for what he has accomplished for Bush and the Republicans, and are using the current controversy to try and bring him down. When reporters sought Rove out for his views on Joseph Wilson's op-ed piece that raised doubts about pre-war intelligence, Rove simply was, according to his defenders, trying to caution reporters against taking that op- ed too seriously.

Far from a mission inspired by the vice president's office, Wilson's trip to Africa to investigate whether Saddam had sought nuclear material, was a CIA sponsored trip encouraged by his wife. And the CIA, remember, was in a bureaucratic war with Vice President Cheney and other hawkish officials over just what sort of threat to the U.S. Saddam Hussein was to the U.S.

There was, by this account, no leaking of a covert agent's identity, just a high White House official responding to reporters questions explaining why they should treat Wilson as a purveyor of inaccurate and politically motivated criticism.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: Mr. Wilson is at best, disingenuous when he tries to tell the American people he didn't have a political agenda. He's been attacking the president constantly.

GREENFIELD: To Rove's critics he is the embodiment of smash mouth politics. If you're criticized, don't answer the criticism, attack the critic.

SEN. JOSEPH BIDEN (D), DELAWARE: No one has ever argued, starting with John McCain -- and what happened in South Carolina, is that Karl Rove doesn't play the hardest hardball attack politics of anyone that I have known in my 34 years of elective office.

GREENFIELD: So Joseph Wilson's op-ed piece, coming at a time when the administration's case about weapons of mass destruction was coming undone, meant that his credibility had to be undermined. And in a climate where politics trumps every other consideration, helping spread the story that Wilson's wife was a CIA agent was, as Rove himself once reportedly said, fair game.

Whether a 1982 law was broken is one thing, say the critics, but the CIA's furious response to the leak shows that people in that agency thought it was anything but fair game. Moreover, say Rove adversaries, this is of a piece with the way the Bush administration works. If you challenge the party line, as former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill did, as former Army Chief of Staff Shinseki did, you lose your job or are brushed aside.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Karl Rove was out there marketing the fact to discredit someone who was criticizing the White House, that the guy's wife got him a job and that she worked for the CIA.

GREENFIELD (on camera): Now over the last couple of days, stories have appeared in the "Los Angeles Times," the "Washington Post," and "Newsweek" that suggest that the White House was after something like a coordinated effort to discredit Wilson, and Aaron, that they were beginning to gather information about Joseph Wilson, even before that op-ed piece was published. But given the way the response to this story has broken down almost invariably on ideological and party lines, I think you have to make a fair bet that it won't be until October when and if, the special prosecutor indicts anybody, that there'll be real kind of fall out on this thing.

BROWN: October will be in the middle, maybe the end of a Supreme Court battle. Anyway, lots of talk that the president may make an appointment sometime this week because he has to and because it will help change the subject.

GREENFIELD: One thing on which I found, almost universal agreement, left, right, if there is a middle anymore, was that a Supreme Court nomination is what the Bush White House is most hopeful about in terms of draining the energy away from the Rove story.

BROWN: What do you make of, I think the poll was out last week, and it's one poll, and one probably ought not read too much into any one single poll, but that the president's credibility, kind of his stock in trade, his believability, trustworthiness has taken a fairly significant hit.

GREENFIELD: Yes, well You know how I feel about polls, that you have to take them with about a mountain of salt. But one thing that I think is true, is that one of the president's most important political assets, from the time he ran back in 2000, is the sense that he's a straight shooter. Not one of these Washington elitist gobbledygook Latinate speaking guys. He's tells you what he means and he's a moral clarity kind of guy. If that number grows, or rather, if his approval rating or his positive rating shrink on that, that could be a serious item. And I think the thing you showed today, where the language has now gone from leaking classified information to a crime, you hear -- I've heard half a dozen people use the phrase Clintonian to describe this.

BROWN: Well it's not exactly setting the bar real high, if someone is convicted of a crime you get tossed.

GREENFIELD: But it's also a change.

BROWN: It is absolutely a change. Nice to see you. Thank you. Still to come, why the bullet proof vest a cop relies on may not be a reliable or bullet proof at all

And later, how much progress is being made against one of the scariest drugs out there these days, Meth. We'll take a break first, from New York. This is

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: About $500 a night to stay in one of those hotels.

A hundred and fifty-three police officers shot to death last year, according to the National Law Enforcement Memorial Fund in the country. The number might have been higher but for the protective vests that most cops now wear. Then again, it might have been lower, perhaps for the very same reason. That will be for the courts to decide. The federal government and lots of states are suing the country's top vest maker, along with a Japanese company that makes the fabric for them. The reason is as simple as it is scary: The vests, though designed to stop a bullet, all too often don't. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SHELLY CUNNINGHAM, LOUISVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: 124, Charlie. What's his location?

BROWN (voice-over): For eight-year veteran Shelly Cunningham, her bulletproof vest is the most important part of her uniform.

CUNNINGHAM: I've never been shot at, at all. But I wear it every day anyway, you know?

BROWN: And it's a good thing she's never been shot at, her vest never tested. Because it's possible it might not work. The same model didn't work in Oceanside, California, two years ago. A police officer died in that incident.

SGT. GREG BURNS, LOUISVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: The officers pretty much depend on that their vests are going to work. So now, they are going around with a question mark in their mind about, if I'm shot, is this vest going to stop a bullet?

BROWN: The vests are made by a company called Second Chance Body Armor, and it says the material inside the vest is defective.

The material is called zylon, made by a company in Japan.

In tests conducted by the National Institute of Justice, the zylon material inside the vest degraded far more quickly than the company said it would, especially when exposed to ordinary things, like light and heat and humidity.

DOUGLAS WAGNER, ATTORNEY, SECOND CHANCE BODY ARMOR: We believe that the NIJ will eventually conclude, as Second Chance has, that vests made from zylon should be replaced with vests made of materials that have proven to be effective over considerable periods of time.

BROWN: Which means a lot of bad vests on a lot of good cops need replacing.

ROBERT WHITE, LOUISVILLE POLICE CHIEF: I'm estimating that 600 of our 1,200 vests actually have zylon and need to be replaced, but my understanding, there are actually over 800,000 vests out there with various law enforcement agencies that actually have zylon. So I would imagine that they are going through the same process we are, by replacing those vests.

BROWN: In Louisville alone, the police chief says it will cost at least a half million dollars for replacements. Dozens of states and the federal government are suing both Second Chance and the Japanese manufacturer of zylon.

THOMAS F. REILLY, ATTORNEY GENERAL, STATE OF MASSACHUSETTS: The bottom line is these vests need to be replaced with vests that are safe.

BROWN: Second Chance has declared bankruptcy. While admitting no liability, the Japanese company has agreed to pay $29 million to settle the first in a series of lawsuits, those filed by seven states. The company blames Second Chance for making the vests incorrectly.

In the meantime, in Louisville and elsewhere, cops are wearing those Second Chance vests, taking chances while making arrests like the one Anetta Gordon made at a housing project in Louisville.

ANETTA GORDON, LOUISVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: He had a gun when he committed this, and we didn't know if he had a gun at this time that we were trying to apprehend him. So we were nervous bringing him out. Not knowing whether or not your vest is going to work, I wear it anyway, just in case. Anything's better than nothing. But yeah, for my family's sake, for everybody that counts on me coming home, I was very nervous.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Bulletproof vests.

Ahead on the program, where is Hurricane Emily? And where is it headed next? We'll check in with the National Hurricane Center, because, fair weather or foul, you can count on NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In a moment, the latest on Hurricane Emily, but first, the latest from Erica Hill in Atlanta -- Erica.

HILL: Thank you, Mr. Brown. In Aruba today, the latest in the case of Natalee Holloway. A park ranger found several foot-long strands of blond hair that will now be tested for DNA in both the Netherlands and at FBI headquarters in Virginia. The hair, stuck to duct tape, was discovered on the opposite side of the island from where the 18-year-old disappeared in May.

Methamphetamine is now the most dangerous drug in America, according to Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. He told a conference of district attorneys today that the drug's abusers now include members of all racial and economic groups. A recent national survey of sheriffs shows that more than half consider meth to be their most serious challenge.

Well, from meth to tobacco. The Justice Department wants another shot at $280 million in tobacco company profits, money it says the companies made by deceiving the public about the dangers of smoking. A federal appeals court ruled the government could not use the RICO laws which apply to racketeering cases to obtain the money. Today, government lawyers filed an appeal with the U.S. Supreme Court.

And Aaron, that is the latest from HEADLINE NEWS. We'll hand it back to you.

BROWN: Thank you very much. See you tomorrow.

Hurricane Emily is back at sea tonight. It blew across Mexico's Yucatan Peninsula yesterday. And if the forecast holds true, it will hit the mainland of Mexico again sometime tomorrow. With that on the radar, we spoke with Max Mayfield at the National Hurricane Center late this afternoon.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Mr. Mayfield, as you look at the computer models, all the data now, you have a pretty good feel for where Emily's headed?

MAX MAYFIELD, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: Yeah, the models are actually in pretty good agreement tonight, and it looks like the core of the hurricane is headed towards the northeastern coast of Mexico, south of Brownsville, Texas.

Here is the eye of the hurricane, headed in this general direction. You can probably see it a little bit better out here. There is a hurricane warning out from the Texas/Mexico border down to La Cruz. Hopefully, the United States, the lower Texas coast will only get tropical storm conditions, but we do have a hurricane watch up there just in case it eases to the north.

BROWN: Just as I am looking at that map, it looks like the hurricane isn't moving much north so much as it is hard left, or hard west.

MAYFIELD: There's a strong high pressure system to the north of the hurricane that should keep it on a generally west/northwestern track.

BROWN: So when does it make land in Mexico, and how much punch does it have when it gets there?

MAYFIELD: Well, the good news here is that it stayed on the Yucatan Peninsula long enough to weaken considerably, down to a category 1 hurricane. Right now, we think it will regain some of that strength, and likely be around a category 2 hurricane by the time it makes landfall very late tomorrow night. But the tropical storm force winds and those rain bands well in advance of the hurricane will actually get there early tomorrow evening.

BROWN: Anything in back of it make you nervous?

MAYFIELD: Actually there are, you know, there are a few very weak tropical waves that -- but nothing out there that looks like we can start advisories on, but it is still the middle of July. We have got a long way to go.

BROWN: I suspect we will talk again before Labor Day. Good to see you. Thank you.

MAYFIELD: Yes, sir. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Max Mayfield. When we come back, "Morning Papers." The latest trend in Japan I guarantee you will leave you shaking your head. A break first. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: OK. Time to check morning papers from around the country and around the world. Enough to leave you nuts tonight. Nice way, huh?

"International Herald Tribune." "U.K. denies U.S. ties prompted attacks. Blair's government reacts sharply to report finding link to Iraq policies." Also on the other side, if that didn't make you crazy enough, "suspect linked to al Qaeda goes free." Terrific. "German court ruling seen as blow to anti-terror efforts."

"The Washington Times," if I can get it up here. "Bush meets with court contenders. GOP strategists predict nomination this week." Middle of the page, "victim ordered to wed rapist. Fatwa by Islamic clerics in India sparks outrage." Yes, I think so.

This troubling headline from "The Detroit News." "Brown out." I don't care who they were -- I just don't like a headline like that. In this case, they are referring, thankfully, to Larry Brown, who's out as the coach of the Detroit Pistons.

"The Oregonian" out West, a kind of gentle headline on the Karl Rove matter. "Bush adds qualifier to stance on leaks. The president says he will fire anyone who committed a crime, a change from earlier on the outing of CIA operative."

"Newsday," being a tabloid, does it a little differently. "Bush leak tweak." I like that. "Now says he will fire anyone who revealed the name of CIA agent if they broke the law."

"Boston Herald" is more fun sometimes. "Mitt's $350,000 image team. It takes 13 people to make our gov look good." That's always a good story.

"The Christian Science Monitor." This one, it's hard to explain this, "Web sites promote group suicides." This is a Japanese phenomenon. Don't bite, people, please.

"Chicago Sun-Times" -- the weather tomorrow in Chicago, if you're visiting, or perhaps even if you live there -- is "copacetic," 86 tomorrow.

We'll wrap it up in just a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA ZAHN, CNN ANCHOR (voice over): Dominique Dawes tumbled into the spotlight during the 1996 Olympics as part of the magnificent seven gold medal winning gymnastic team. Awesome Dawesome became the first African-American to win an individual gymnastics medal with a bronze in the floor exercise.

DOMINIQUE DAWES, OLYMPIC GYMNAST: It just meant a lot to do it for this country, my team, and myself.

ZAHN: After the Olympics, Dawes turned heads on Broadway, dabbled in acting and modeling, and cart-wheeled her way through a Prince music video. She hung up her leotard in 1998 and went on to the University of Maryland, but soon realized that gymnastics was not quite out of her system.

Dawes participated in her third Olympic games in 2000 in what she called a once in a lifetime experience. Dawes, now 28, is completely retired from gymnastics and splits her time between coaching and motivational speaking.

DAWES: It's really going out there and teaching young girls what being fit is all about.

ZAHN: She's also president of the Women's Sports Foundation, and has recently launched a new project, Go Girl, Go.

DAWES: I do feel like I do have to inspire and empower others and that's why -- you know I found these different platforms, these different venues that I feel like I've been able to touch lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: One last item before we go tonight. William Westmoreland, who led American troops through much of the Vietnam War, has died. He was 91 years old. General Westmoreland famously said he saw the light at the end of the tunnel, and then got involved, as I recall, in a nasty lawsuit with CBS. Again, he was 91.

Good to have you with us tonight. We'll see you tomorrow. Good night for all of us.

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