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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

Plane Crash Survivors Share Stories; Role of Flight Attendant Has Changed Over Years; NYPD Reveals Details of London Bombs

Aired August 03, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

LARRY KING, HOST, "LARRY KING LIVE": And now we turn things over to a man who has a birthday every day. That's what it's like for Aaron Brown, every -- yes, it is, Aaron. When you're a star like you, every day is your birthday.
AARON BROWN, HOST: You got it.

KING: So happy birthday, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you. Your father-in-law deserves meatloaf, and he got me, right? Thank you.

KING: Go get them.

BROWN: Talk to you later.

Good evening again, everyone.

As you can imagine, we still have very little idea why an Air France jumbo jet skidded through and off a runway in Toronto yesterday. We know that there was bad weather in the area, very bad. We know the black boxes have been recovered. Those are the hard facts.

Much of the rest are soft facts, memories and impressions, often vivid and frightening. We begin tonight with the last five minutes of that flight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN (voice-over): The final five minutes, Flight 358 was already late because of bad weather. Inside the cabin, passengers were not worried. Not yet.

EDDIE HO, PASSENGER: Other passengers were curious, why are we circling in the air? We were delayed by 10, 15 minutes. The captain said, "There's a few showers and cloud cover." And that's all they told us.

BROWN: It was now very bumpy. Everyone agrees on that. But the plane leveled off and began its final approach. Touchdown was seconds away.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three five eight heavy, roger. Your altimeter, three, zero, zero, zero. JOHN ABEDRABBO, PASSENGER: It seemed like a normal landing. It was just going down. And he touched down normally, without a hitch. And people started clapping. A couple of seconds later, that's when things broke up -- all broke loose, basically.

OLIVIER DUBOS, PASSENGER: The whole thing started to burn, like shake everywhere. At a very, very high speed. And we started to see flames from fire, on the outside. And that's really -- we were holding -- and we thought we would just die at that point.

BROWN: These shots were taken inside the cabin by a passenger.

HO: The crew, you know, they did what they can. I mean, if I was in their position, I wouldn't be able to do what they did. They basically told us, you know, "Get out of the plane. Jump out as soon as possible."

ABEDRABBO: The passengers were, to a certain extent, getting up in a calm manner. And the crew was up in action, because I saw a couple of the crew members up front, directing people where to go and which gate to leave from. And obviously, they opened the gates as well and put the chutes up.

BROWN: Fire began to cover the left side of the plane. So only the emergency chutes on the right side were available. And things on that side became complicated.

ABEDRABBO: The chute came out. But it didn't actually deploy properly. They were intermangled for some reason, at least by the time I got to them. They were all jumbled together. So we had to jump right on the grass itself.

BROWN: Even so, it was all over in only two minutes. Rescue vehicles arrived 52 seconds after impact. Some injuries. No one badly hurt.

DUBOS: I just don't believe that we all managed to get of there, that there are any survivors. We -- I'm feeling shock. I don't really understand the whole thing, what happened. But really happy to be alive from that. That's quite an unusual feeling when you come back from a vacation.

HO: I don't know how to explain it. It was like the movies. But it even worse than the movies. You know, it was right in front of you. The movies is a special effects. It's fake. But this is like real. But it's so unreal at the same time. It's so hard to explain.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: There are 309 survivor stories. And each one adds a few facts to the overall picture. Beyond the 309, there are also family members who watched that plane burn and assumed, as we all did, the worst.

Phil Lecaille, his wife and two of his four children were on the plane. His oldest daughter was in Buffalo, New York, watching on TV. We spoke earlier to Audrey, her father and here sister, Emily, who was also on board.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Phil, you're an experienced traveler. You're coming in for the landing. What are you seeing out of the window?

PHIL LECAILLE, PASSENGER: Well, under the window, we're in a severe storm. Surrounded by lightning. The plane is shaking. Dropping in altitude. From time to time. And the -- well, very, very dense clouds, basically. That's what we've seen.

BROWN: You hit the runway. You touch down. And are you aware -- do you hear the brakes being applied? Are you aware that this is not -- this is not the way it's supposed to be?

P. LECAILLE: We felt the plane was hydroplaning. It was gliding, basically, on the sheet of water, pouring by the airport. And all of a sudden, we knew we were off-track. We hit the grass or the fence. The plane actually probably lost a front wheel. And we could feel the front of the plane bobbing up and down, as the plane was progressing towards highway 401, which is like the key highway in Toronto.

We hit the second fence then. And at that time, actually, flames started to catch fire on the right engine where my daughter, Emily, was sitting.

BROWN: Let me stop you at that point for a second. Let me turn to Emily for a second.

Emily, you've now had this horrible landing. And you're aware, I assume, even at your age, that you've gone off the runway and it's a bad thing. What's it like on the airplane? Is it loud? Are people screaming? Are you crying? What's happening?

EMILY LECAILLE, PASSENGER: Well, what's really happening is is we landed but a rough landing. And everybody was screaming. You could see the color of the flames from the right of the airplane. An orange glow. Everybody's screaming. They're all shrieking. Trying to get out of the plane. They're rushing. Some people even took the time to get their carry-on bags. But my dad just rushed us out of the plane.

BROWN: Phil, do you remember where you sat?

P. LECAILLE: Absolutely. My first thought was that if we had to die, we have to die together. So I wanted to get Emily together with us. And when we saw that it wasn't blowing up, which I expected, I told them, "Just leave everything. Just run. Run, run, run. Run for the exit."

So we basically -- I don't know. I think I pushed them, probably. And we ended up in front of the exit door, which just opened at that time. And they were actually the first guys out of the plane, out of the back chute. BROWN: Let me leave that there and turn to Audrey for a second. You're in Buffalo, New York. And you're seeing, I guess what we were all seeing on television. You know you're family's on this plane. You're seeing the smoke and presumably the fire. And you must be beside yourself.

AUDREY LECAILLE, FAMILY SURVIVED CRASH: I was, actually. Actually, it was by total fluke that I saw it on TV. As soon as I saw it, I thought for sure they were dead. I thought that I had to plan four burials.

BROWN: Phil, have you thought about -- I can't imagine that you haven't. Obviously the close calls in life don't get any closer than this. Have you thought about why y'all -- why everyone made it out? Why you made it out? Why your kids made it out? Why it all ended well?

P. LECAILLE: I appreciate the question, Aaron, because I've been asking myself the question since last night. And clearly, I know it sounds like a cliche, but it was a sheer miracle that we all got out without any injury, like serious injury.

It appeared to me and to a lot of people around us, that we were protected. Somehow, you know? And I don't know how. But if you believe in God, it's time to thank God for this miracle.

I never heard of a plane crash with nobody dying or, you know, nobody being seriously injured. And none of us -- of course, we escaped and we ran like crazy. But we were physically intact. So, I don't know why. I don't know why, but I can tell you, we are protected somehow.

BROWN: By a miracle. It works for me. In no sense this is a cliche. It's great to see you all. Anybody who watched what we all watched yesterday didn't expect that we would be sitting here, talking to survivors today. Let alone everyone making it off the plane. So, God bless. Good to see you. Thanks for your time tonight.

P. LECAILLE: Thank you very much, Aaron.

E. LECAILLE: Thank you.

A. LECAILLE: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: The Lecailles. The Lecailles live on Houdini Way in Ontario. I would say they pulled an escape yesterday. Everyone on board Air France Flight 358 lived through the same terror yesterday, beat the same odds. But each survivor experienced the terror differently. So there are 309 people. And 309 stories, including a young doctor's.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. YASMIN LADAK, PASSENGER: Looking back, when I got home last night. And I saw sort of the remnants of the plane and the wreckage, I think it -- I realized how lucky I was to walk out of there without any injuries.

BROWN: Yasmin Ladak, a 26-year-old doctor, was on her way back from India. She spent three weeks in a traveling clinic in a series of refugee camps. A medical resident, she was caring for Tibetan children.

LADAK: After the plane touched down and everybody started clapping, I think everyone was relieved that we touched down OK. Then all of a sudden, the plane started bouncing and jerking around. And we were just shaken about. And I knew something was definitely off.

BROWN: It did stop. But that's when things got worse.

LADAK: I kind of looked around. And then looked right behind me and saw flames at the back. And saw the smoke was starting to come into the cabin.

BROWN: As the cabin filled with smoke, some passengers did panic.

LADAK: People were definitely crying. Screaming. Just not knowing sort of what to do. And started sort of coughing and choking on it. And I was just worried that we were going to -- that we might suffocate. So I know that we just had to keep moving forward, as quickly as we could.

BROWN: She managed to find an exit door and make a jump for her life.

LADAK: Getting off the plane was a huge relief. But the same time, I knew I wasn't completely safe at that point. And I had to move away from the plane.

BROWN: She made her way up a hill, to a highway. A man in a van stopped, picked her up with other passengers.

LADAK: I saw the most fear when I actually got on -- got into the van with the seven or eight other people. And you know, everybody was just in tears. And disbelief.

BROWN: At the airport terminal, Dr. Ladak's brother was waiting.

LADAK: I don't even think I said anything. I think I just gave him a big hug.

BROWN: It was then that she started to take it all in. She had survived.

LADAK: It didn't hit me emotionally until I heard what my family members had went through, not knowing what had happened to me.

BROWN: For Dr. Ladak, the trip home ended the way it was supposed to -- at home. LADAK: I think it will haunt me for a little while. And, yes, I think it's sort of a life-changing experience. And it will probably always be with me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Fair to say that no one on board that plane yesterday and no one who raced to the scene, as flames engulfed that jet, will soon forget it.

Frank Hurlehey is an EMS worker in Toronto, one of the first on the scenes, and we talked with him earlier tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Frank, you see -- Frank, the nature of your job, you see a lot of bad things. Had you ever seen anything worse or imagined anything worse than when you drove up yesterday afternoon?

FRANK HURLEHEY, TORONTO EMS: Prior to actually getting on the scene, you don't know what you're dealing with. We see thick, black smoke. And as we get closer, we start to see the orange roll, the flames moving up through it. And you're thinking, "Wow, what is this?"

I've seen worse. But what made it worse was the casualties that were involved in this. This was utterly amazing that the casualty numbers were what they were.

BROWN: You're honest enough to admit that when you got there, you were aware that there were some people that survived. But you assumed a good many had not, didn't you?

HURLEHEY: Yes. When I first got to the sight, I walked up to see the condition of the plane, to see did I need more crews directly at the incident itself? And when I got there, the cabin, the front cabin was intact. The tail was intact. But the passenger cabin was totally engulfed in flames. And I knew no one was coming off the plane if they weren't already off.

BROWN: So at that point, how long until after the plane came off the runway, would you say you arrived there?

HURLEHEY: We were actually on site within 15 minutes of the plane crash -- we were notified of the incident.

BROWN: People had scattered, as I recall. There were people had run towards -- there's a major highway there, towards the major highway. Was the scene itself chaotic? Was it noisy? What was it like? What did it sound like?

HURLEHEY: At the crash site itself, where half of the passengers were, the noise was strictly -- the apparatus that was fighting the fire. And the roar of the flames itself.

Up on the highway, it was about the same. A lot of traffic noise. But the victims themselves were very subdued. They were very quiet. We weren't hearing a lot from them.

BROWN: Miracle seem to work for you?

HURLEHEY: Amazing. Just amazing to think that people walked away from that. You think that the worst and hope for the best. And that's what we saw this time, the best.

BROWN: It's good to talk to you. Thanks for your efforts tonight and yesterday.

HURLEHEY: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Frank Hurlehey, with EMS in Toronto.

As soon as we learned yesterday that everyone had survived the crash, had somehow had gotten off that plane without serious injury, our question was how. And the heroes became the flight attendants. Evacuating 309 people from a burning jet in two minutes is what they are trained to do. In the new normal, being a flight attendant has taken on new meaning, new duties. It did not begin that way.

Here's NEWSNIGHT'S Beth Nissen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Early air travel was not all that comfortable, not all that safe. The first airline stewardesses in the 1930s were registered nurses, on board to make passengers feel more secure, to nurse them through the experience.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It seemed to me men, at that time, were very afraid to fly. We had all of the wherewithal. They alerted me when they were faint. There need oxygen.

NISSEN: but the late 1930s, there were more than 200 nurses working for the new airline industry. Then came World War II. Experienced nurses were needed at the front, served on early medevac flights.

In the booming post-war period, when commercial flying really took off, stewardesses no longer had to have nursing skills. What was more important was a fresh face, a slim figure and a draw to globe circling adventure and glamor. Air travel was mostly reserved for the famous and the rich.

By the early 1950s, stewardesses numbered in the thousands.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's a wonderful feeling you get as you board your plane. A warm welcome for everyone from the pretty girl in the trim uniform.

NISSEN: Air fares were controlled so airlines used stewardesses as marketing tools. Stewardesses were schooled in the airplane function and safety. But also keeping the seams of their hose straight, their heels polished and comportment.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Poise and sense of balance are acquired through rhythmic exercise. Nothing is more disconcerting to the passenger than a lurching air hostess who tumbles in one's lap.

NISSEN: Rules were strict. Stewardesses could not be married, and they were forced to retire at 32. Then, the airline industry swung into the '60s. They wore short skirts and carried a brief message -- the skies were sexy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She'll slip into something a little more comfortable.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Mary Beth, fly me to Miami.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Maggie, fly me to New York.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whether it's me or Kathy or Cheryl, we're going to fly you like you've never been flown before.

NISSEN: But things slowly changed as progress was made in civil rights, women's rights. In the 1970s, stewardesses were joined by stewards, and both started to be called flight attendants.

With the deregulation of the airlines, businesses added thousands of flights, millions of passengers. Flight attendants became part traffic cop, part fast food worker, part safety officer.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They seem upset (ph). (UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE) Nobody knows (UNINTELLIGIBLE) because nobody can breathe. We can't get to the cockpit. The door won't open.

NISSEN: The role of flight attendant in airplane safety became clear since September 11th. Since then, they are trained in everything from cockpit security to in-flight arrests.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don't take anything with you. You, you, get in line (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

NISSEN: Industry safety officials say the actions of the Air France flight crew in Toronto, show what professional flight attendants have become. Not just service staff at 30,000 feet. But the flying public's first and best line of defense.

Beth Nissen, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: In a moment, another space spectacular. And from New York tonight, new information and warnings about the London bombs, all too easy to cook up, it turns out.

But first, about a quarter past the hour, on this Wednesday night, time for some of the other stories that made news. Erica Hill joins us from Atlanta -- Ms. Hill. ERICA HILL, HEADLINE NEWS: Mr. Brown, a little bit more trouble for baseball star Rafael Palmiero tonight. Two top law makers want Palmiero and Major League Baseball to turn over all the records on that drug test he failed for steroids. And they may have some more questions, including the question of perjury. Palmiero was under oath when he told Congress he never ever used steroids.

Martha Stewart is getting a little bit more time to think about it. Stewart's lawyer said the domestic diva is going to have to stay very close to home at her house arrest for an additional three weeks, until the end of August. No reason given, but "The New York Post", it has pictures of Martha looking out of the house, arriving an all- terrain vehicle around her estate.

The FBI has searched two homes now and a car belonging to Democratic congressman, William Jefferson from New Orleans. A Justice Department spokesman called the searches part of an ongoing criminal investigation. Jefferson said subpoenas were issued to him and to members of his staff. There are no details yet on the subject of the investigation.

And 26-year-old Susan Torres was removed from life support today, ending a long and bittersweet drama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Earlier this morning, after a brief good-bye with her parents, husband and other family members, and after receiving the last sacraments of the Catholic Church, Susan Michelle Rollin Torres passed away, after the machines which sustained her life for the past 12 weeks were turned off at my brother's request.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLIN: Torres gave birth to a baby daughter yesterday, who was born two months early. She weighed in at just under two pounds. Doctors had kept her mother alive for three months after she suffered a stroke caused by cancer that spread to her brain. Her family wanted to give the baby a chance to live, and she did.

Just a heartbreaking story.

BROWN: It is indeed. Someday that child will understand all her mother went through.

Erica, thank you. We'll see you in half an hour.

Much more ahead on the program, starting with the nail-biting spacewalk. And unfortunately, possibly, another bump in the road.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CINDY BEGLEY, NASA: It did turn out to be just as easy as we said it was going to be. Pulled right out.

BROWN (voice-over): An unprecedented repair job goes off without a hitch.

And then, a new problem emerges. Is there yet another spacewalk ahead?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to think real hard about sending somebody out there and taking that risk.

BROWN: A horrible day for U.S. Marines in Iraq and for their loved ones at home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is no doubt in my mind that he is a true hero. And ultimately gave the ultimate sacrifice of himself for his country.

BROWN: How much loss can one community take?

Also tonight, a lot of fuss over a puppy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Snuppy is exactly 100 days old today. To the outside world, he seems perfectly fine.

BROWN: Not any puppy. The world's first canine clone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Dave. I'm here at the food network kitchen.

BROWN: He found his calling in college, cooking for friends. Now, his career is on fire.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First up are the snap peas. And this is really simple.

BROWN: From snap peas to the not-so-simple stories of the day, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: We learned a great deal tonight about the London suicide bombers, the July the 7th attackers and how they made their bombs. The details come from the New York Police Department. And those details shoot down some assumptions about the sophistications of the bombs.

Here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The bombs used in the July 7 attacks in London were detonated using cell phones. And they were made out of basic household materials, not high-end military explosives as investigators first believed.

New York City officials released the details while briefing private security directors in New York City. A law enforcement source confirms investigators believe the bombers used a peroxide-based explosive called HNDT. It can be made using hydrogen peroxide, found in hair bleach; citric acid, used to keep food fresh; and heat tablets used by the military to warm food.

A law enforcement source confirms the bombers kept the materials cool, using high-end commercial refrigerators at the house in Leeds. Also, the bombers may have carried the explosives to London in coolers, stashed in the back of two cars.

A law enforcement source tells CNN the briefing was based on information gathered in part by NYPD detectives sent to London immediately after the bombings. It was shared with private security directors to increase awareness at New York hotels, Wall Street firms and storage facilities.

New York City's police commissioner told security directors the materials and methods used in London could easily be used in New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: A police spokesman says British authorities gave the NYPD the green light to share the information. Scotland Yard would not comment. But a British police force tells CNN it's reckless for another police force in another country to give out what's considered privileged information on an investigation being run by British agencies -- Aaron.

BROWN: Deborah, thank you. Deborah Feyerick tonight.

Astronauts Steve Robinson's spacewalk took him from more than 200 miles above Massachusetts, all the way across the Atlantic Ocean and high above the coast of France. On the way, he pulled out two little strips of gap filler, from between the heat tiles on the belly of the Shuttle Discovery. Pulled off a lot of space firsts, as well. But were they enough?

Here's CNN's Miles O'Brien.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE ROBINSON, ASTRONAUT: OK. That came out very easily. Probably even less force.

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT/ANCHOR: NASA pulled out all the stops. And now, all that may stop the shuttle from getting clearance to land is a tattered thermal blanket near Commander Eileen Collins' cockpit window.

PAUL HILL, We have to think really hard about sending somebody out there and taking that risk. Which is why we're working really hard to show analytically and with tests that the vehicle's good to land, as it is, and not have to put these folks back outside in suits to do anything about it.

O'BRIEN: Shuttle engineers are not worried the loose blanket will expose the orbiter to excessive amounts of heat. Rather, they're worried a piece of the blanket may tear away during the wild ride back to Earth, damaging the shuttle's surface. Engineers say the bad blanket is now the only thing left to worry about, after astronaut Steve Robinson, lashed onto a high tech cherry picker, made mincemeat of those errant gap fillers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very nice. OK, Steve, back away.

O'BRIEN: Easy as it seemed, it was a tense moment. Those tiles are as fragile as they are crucial. Careful as Robinson was, having a spaspacewalker in close proximity was a nail-biter.

BEGLEY: It was just as easy as we said it was going to be. Pulled right out. Luckily, none of our other contingency plans were required.

O'BRIEN: Shuttle engineers were worried the stubble on Discverory's smooth skin would create turbulent eddies of hot gases as it hurled into the atmosphere at 25 times the speed of sound.

A slick shuttle is a cooler one. And while it is not likely the loose gap fillers would create another Columbia-style disintegration, Robinson's slick move took a big worry off mission control's plate.

HILL: You could hear a sigh of relief throughout the building over there. And when he pulled the second one out, it was a huge relief. And it definitely felt like the rest is downhill from here.

O'BRIEN (on camera): Shuttle engineers insist Discovery is good to come home without those gap fillers, which are designed primarily to keep the tiles from chattering against each other. Any additional heat felt by Discovery's alumninum shield, they say will not pose a safety threat.

But fixing the gap filler problem is on the must-do list, along with that falling fuel tank foam, before the shuttles can fly again. The biggest worry of all for NASA may be the gap between flights.

Miles O'Brien, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Coming up on NEWSNIGHT tonight. You loved your pet all its life. Would you do it all again? Literally.

And a young, Australian model gets another day in court. We break first. Around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A team of South Korean scientists have succeed in cloning a dog. This dog, named SNUPY, probably. Snoopy would have all sorts of copyright issues, besides the whole cloning deal. The Afghan puppy's 100 days old, the exact genetic duplicate of his three-year- old father. That would be cloning.

For a variety of reasons, dog cloning is very hard. The Mt. Everest of cloning, said one doctor today. Another step in a world we cannot quite imagine.

Ben Carlson, the vice president of communications for Genetic Savings and Clone, perhaps a company's name too cute by half. Can't imagine all of this. They can't do dogs yet. But they do clone cats for 32 grand apiece. He joins us from San Francisco. Nice to see you.

Do people actually pay $32,000?

BEN CARLSON, GENETIC SAVINGS & CLONE: We do have several cat cloning clients. But we also have many gene banking clients. Those are folks who have spent a lot less, about $300, to preserve their pets DNA for possible later use in cloning. Most of them are going to wait for the price to come down a bit.

BROWN: The price will come down to what do you think? $100? $50? $2,000?

CARLSON: I think like any new technology, it will get cheaper as we increase our efficiencies. And it's hard to say how low we'll be able to get it.

BROWN: What kind of a person do you think would plunk down 32 grand to clone their cat?

CARLSON: Apart from a wealthy person, that would be somebody who has a very specific idea about what they want their next pet to be. They want their next pet to be genetically identical to their favorite pet. A clone is best thought of like being a later-born identical twin. And that's what we aim to provide our clients.

BROWN: Seriously, there are a gazillion abandoned cats out there. Do you think this is sort of wasteful?

CARLSON: Well, there are tens of thousands of cats and dogs born every day. We're producing cats and dogs on a very small scale. It's not going to have any impact on the pet population.

BROWN: Well, that actually wasn't the question. The question was doesn't it seem a little wasteful?

CARLSON: Well, it's a question that you might ask of breeders, as well, or the clients who patronize breeders. Why is it that they want a specific dog or cat?

People fall in love with a particular breed. I think responsible pet owners know to spay and neuter their pets. And the problem we have with homeless pets is the result of irresponsible pet owners who don't do that.

BROWN: The -- is there -- of the people who come in and have actually either bought the genetic packet, the cheaper one, or the actual clone, is there, beyond having a little extra cash in their pocket, is there a pattern? Are they younger? Older? Are they more likely to be men than women? Women than men? What can you say about them as a group?

CARLSON: Our clients are a pretty diverse group. We have a lot of female and male clients. We have a lot of families. Families with children. The thing they all have in common, is they have an exceptional pet. And they want their next pet to have those same exceptional qualities. And that's what we aim to provide.

BROWN: But what -- actually you -- tell me if I'm wrong here, I mean, you don't provide a personality, you provide a cat that would look exactly like the cat they had, right?

CARLSON: Well, that's why we used the analogy of identical twins. Genes contribute to behavior, but so does environment. A lot of people get ideas about cloning from science fiction. And they imagine that, well, we can do is bring a pet back to life in a new body. And we can't do that. We can't download the mind of the first pet into the second. But genes influence behavior. So, you will see behavioral similarities.

BROWN: Who came up with the name for the company?

CARLSON: Our CEO did. He's good with names.

BROWN: Very good with names.

Nice talking to you, Mr. Carlson. Thanks for your time tonight.

Still to come on the program, a prince joins his family in a museum of all places.

And straight from college to the kitchen by way of a TV deal, our deal doesn't involve cooking at least not yet. They could change that. This is, after all, NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: It's been a brutal week in Iraq, especially brutal for one marine battalion. They've lost 19 marines. 14 killed today by a huge, roadside bomb. Add to that, five killed two days earlier, bringing the war home to a city in Ohio, where most of the marines were based. Here's CNN's Keith Oppenheim.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JIM BOSCOVITCH, DEAD MARINE'S FATHER: I was at work Monday evening and was notified by my wife that two marines were at our house.

KEITH OPPENHEIM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On Monday evening, Jim Boscovitch would find out his 25-year-old son, Jeffrey, was missing in action. On Tuesday, he would learn his son was killed, one of six marines who died from sniper fire near the city of Haditha, one of 20 marines who died in Iraq this week, all from the same Ohio battalion.

BOSCOVITCH: This is Jeff on a gun boat. He was on the Euphrates River.

OPPENHEIM: Jim Boscovitch showed us pictures. And he talked about who Jeff was and who he was to be. In the past, the son had convinced the father that the war in Iraq was worth fighting.

BOSCOVITCH: Months ago, my son -- and he's done this more than -- on one occasion, has corrected me and straightened me out about why he's over there.

OPPENHEIM: And in the future, Jim told us, his son was to be a police officer. He planned to get married this fall to his girlfriend Shelly. And Jim said, his son was due back home in September.

BOSCOVITCH: But there isn't a minute that I don't stop thinking about him: when he was growing up, before he left for Iraq, his -- what we were going to do when he got back, looking forward to a wedding. You know, being part of his life.

OPPENHEIM (on camera): All that's in the past?

BOSCOVITCH: Yes.

OPPENHEIM (voice-over): As much as he is sad, Jim Boscovitch says he's angry, too, especially at reports his son may have suffered a violent death. And he is mindful there are other families in Ohio going through the same emotions.

(on camera): Is it harder that more have died? Does it change your emotions?

BOSCOVITCH: Of course. Of course. I wouldn't wish what I'm going through on anybody.

OPPENHEIM (voice-over): It may be several days before Jeff Boscovitch's body is returned to his family. Jim Boscovitch says it will only be then he will feel the weight of his oldest son's death.

BOSCOVITCH: You have to try to work through it. And that's what we're trying to do as a family right now.

OPPENHEIM: Keith Oppenheim, CNN, Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Ahead on the program tonight: He's given mu meaning to college cooking and he is on the rise. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: 16 minutes till the top of the hour. Time for some of the other news of the day. Erica Hill again, in Atlanta tonight -- Ms. Hill.

HILL: Mr. Brown. Unfortunately, we're starting out with a sad story. And sad, especially because we keep hearing this happening. A bolt of lightning killed a 15-year-old Eagle Scout and injured three others near Salt Lake City. The boys were sleeping in a log shelter at a Boy Scout camp in the mountains when they were caught in a violent thunderstorm. Two of the injured boys were flown to the burn unit of University of Utah. This, of course, comes on the heels of those deaths last week.

Another casualty, meantime, in Iraq. American freelance journalist Steven Vincent was abducted in Basra and found shot to death soon after. Vincent often traveled without security. He recently published an op ed column in the New York Times" in the Sunday edition, on the growing influence of Islamic militants in Basra.

And on a more upbeat note, there is some new hope for an Australian tourist sentenced to 20 years in jail in Indonesia. She was charged with drug smuggling. Well, a prisoner in Australia says he's willing to testify via video link that he planted nine pounds of marijuana in her bag. 28-year-old Chapelle Corby is appealing her conviction and Indonesian court has agreed to hear new witnesses.

Finally tonight, there is a new man on display at Madame Tussaud's Waxworks Museum in London. Prince William, all 6'3" of him joins wax figures of his father, Prince Charles, and his grandmother, Queen Elizabeth. You saw his mother there as well, Princess Diana. But they had to work from pictures, because the prince -- busy guy Aaron -- no time to pose in person.

And I know that's what happened with you when they asked you for your wax figure. I mean.

BROWN: I swear, I find that one of the weirdest things in the world.

HILL: Wax figures?

BROWN: Yeah.

HILL: It's a little wacky.

BROWN: Yes, it is.

HILL: But so life-like that it's creepy.

BROWN: Yes. Sort of life-like.

Thank you, Ms. Hill. Not a wax figure you.

When temperatures rise and summer's here, a young man's fancy often turns to barbecues, tailgate parties and keggers. Here's a young man with a way with food looking for a good deal. And he's on the rise.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE; I'm Dave. I'm here at the Food Network kitchen. And I'm going to show you a couple of my recipes to give you an idea of what I'm about.

I was always drawn to the kitchen. At 5 -- 4-years-old, I was trying to play with ingredients. I would take random stuff from the cabinets. I called them my magic potions. First up on the snap peas. And this is really simple. It's only a couple steps.

I worked in restaurants growing up in Philadelphia. And I decided I didn't want to be a professional restaurant chef, because the environment wasn't for me. I stuck to cooking and continued as a hobby. Cooking for friends as a way to get my friends together, entertaining.

And it's that easy. The food career actually came back and found me because, in my senior year of college, I did a food television show on local television.

All we need to do now is package this stuff up and head up to Cambridge for the big game.

And the show, it revolved around campus life. So, the situations that were the episodes were things like a barbecue and a tailgate.

This is a great dish, because it feeds a lot of people really easily.

The show's called "Good Deal." And it is about taking common supermarket ingredients...

I take kettle cooked potato chips take them home and make something impressive and pretty and really tasty and sharing it with friends and family and having a good time.

It goes into an oven for about 20, 25 minutes at 400 degrees.

The ideas behind the cook book are very similar to the idea behind the show.

Well, now that I have the salmon in the oven, I can get started on this refreshing watermelon dessert.

I'm pushing myself but I'm still, at heart, a home cook and use that to my advantage when talking about food, so that people can relate to me.

And just kind of drizzle it over here.

I think there are times when professional chefs will question my credibility or older people will question my credibility because I'm younger and have not been to culinary school. But I kind of let my food speak for itself.

So, there you have it, a really nice summer meal.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: I use potato chips in tuna salad. Perhaps I can publish that, too.

Summer in is jeopardy. That's the headline. We'll give you the story in "Morning Papers" after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Okay. Time to check "Morning Papers" from around the country and around the world. Now a lot of yucks in the papers today. I've got to tell you. Or in the papers tomorrow.

"The Washington Times," I just scratched my forehead on television. "Alabama limits eminent" -- it itched -- "eminent domain. First bill rejection of court ruling." That would be the U.S. Supreme Court ruling. The ruling that said states can take over property for private projects. You know, like they want to build, let's say, a condo where you live.

The bad news out of Iraq on most front pages. "Insurgent Attack Kills 14 Marines: Adaptive Enemy Builds Bigger, Deadlier Bombs" headlines the Washington Times."

Here's "The Des Moines Register." We mentioned this going to break. "Vilsack Proposal Puts Summers In Jeopardy." My goodness. You wouldn't think a governor had that kind of power. "Governor calls for a longer school year. Statewide uniform calendar." That's probably a good idea.

"Ohio unit suffers 20 deaths this week" is how they headline the Iraq story.

The "San Antonio Express News," "Ohio Marine Horror in Iraq" is their take on the story. They also put the cloned dog. "Bark bark, Clone Dog Unleashed."

"The Daily News" headlines -- in New York -- "The New York Daily News," "Hell Day: First City Cop to Die in Iraq, Slain by Sniper, James McNaughton." And there's a picture Officer McNaughton. And "New York Journalist Executed." We'll do more on that in a bit. That's "The Daily News" headline.

How are we doing on time, Wilson? OK. One minute.

"Dallas Morning News." "Legislative Log Jam Blocking Textbooks." Hey look, the kids are in school for 12 years, they don't need books every year.

The big story in Detroit is the newspaper. Or are the newspapers, actually. "The Detroit News," "The News and the Free Press Change Owners in a Three-way Deal: Media News acquires the Detroit News, Gannett buys the Free Press from Knight Ridder and a newspaper to be named later." The newspapers there have had actually a terrible go of it. So, perhaps they'll stabilize things.

Down here, this is how they deal with the Iraq story. "Vehicles' Light Armor Left Marines at-risk in Iraq." That is a story to chase.

"Britain Braces Itself for Another Nervy Thursday." The headline in "The Times" of London.

The weather tomorrow in Chicago, according to the "Chicago Sun- Times" by the way -- gooey.

Picture of the day in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ALESSIO VINCI, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He is known as the king of Italian fashion. Giorgio Armani became a household name in the 1980s, when Richard Gere in "American Gigolo" famously showed off his collection of shirts, jackets and ties.

In 1982, he was the first fashion designer to be on the cover of "Time" magazine since Christian Dior in the 1950s. Armani revolutionized the wardrobes of men and women alike, introducing a style of relaxed elegance and pale colors.

In the 1990's, he became the designer of choice for Hollywood stars and was among the first to approach celebrities to wear his creations.

GIORGIO ARMANI, FASHION DESIGNER (through translator): I'm perceived as one who makes only serious clothes for the working woman, the woman who has no strange ideas. When in fact, I'd like to think I have a clientele who is a little crazy.

VINCI: Armani expanded quickly, licensing eyewear, cosmetics and a fragrance, turning his business into a multibillion-dollar fashion power house.

In 1998, he opened his first store in China. And last year, he inaugurated his winter collection in Shanghai. Fashion, he says, has no boundaries.

At 70, Armani is celebrating 30 years running his own fashion line.

ARMANI (through translator): It seems like yesterday. In fact, it's been 30 years of commitment.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: OK. Here's your picture of the day. And it is the picture of the day, at least to us. That's Steve Robinson underneath the -- underneath the shuttle, hanging on that robotic arm. I often think this has to do with my age, that any shot from space fascinates me. The child of the space age. I'm not sure my daughter finds it all as exciting as I do.

See you tomorrow, 10:00 Eastern time. Have a great night. Good night for all of us.

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