Return to Transcripts main page
CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Two Terror Cells Bombing London?; New Threats by al Qaeda; Is Racial Profiling Right?; Repeat Offenders Out of Jail; Home & Land Security Against Eminent Domain
Aired August 04, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
SOLEDAD O'BRIEN, CNN ANCHOR: As Larry said, Aaron's got the night off and I am filling in tonight.
Our top story tonight, those bombings that killed 52 innocent people in London four weeks ago. Began, really, a new era of terror attacks. Two weeks later, discovery of a second wave of planned attacks left us wondering, who's the enemy we face? An entrenched global network of terrorists or separate cells working apart? Nic Robertson this evening on how investigators are getting a little bit closer to the answer.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): As London is on high alert, British police are now reasonably sure about a key question, are the two attacks linked? The similarities, startlingly clear. Four bombs. Three on trains. One on a bus. All in backpacks.
The hottest lead that could connect the two terror cells, two sets of homemade bombs. One set recovered in a car used by the July 7th bombers and those left in the failed July 21st attack. CNN has now learned from investigators they believe there is no direct link between the two London attacks. At least not one that's been found yet. Not between the bombs, nor the two cells.
CRISPIN BLACK, RISK ADVISORY GROUP: The two, totally independent groups of young men have become radicalized in such a way they're prepared to use this kind of violence. I see no reason why there should not be three, four, five, six.
ROBERTSON: And that goes a long way to answering another very important question will there be more attacks?
ANDY TROTTER, LONDON TRANSPORT POLICE: Of course, it could happen again. London is on a high level of alert.
ROBERTSON: Which raises another very important question who is masterminding the attacks? The hard fact is police are only making limited progress on the first terror cell. No one linked to their attacks yet in police custody. And no link either between odd man out Jamaican-born Jermaine Lindsay and the other three cell members, all of Pakistani origin.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
And the only clue to why any of them decided to attack coming from Hamdi Issac, the July 21st suspected bomber captured in Rome last week. He told his defense attorney that he was angered by watching videos of the fighting in Iraq. Hard to know even if that's the truth. He lived on false documents in Britain for years.
Clues to Issac's escape to Rome are expected to emerge now that the first person in the U.K. has been charged in relation to the attack. Twenty-three-year-old Ismael Abdurahman came to court confident, blew a kiss to a relative, and vowed to contest the accusation that he knew about Issac and his plans to flee Britain. He's being held pending more charges and likely many more questions.
We've heard in the last few hours that two more people will face the same charges on Friday. Two women. One of them appears to be a partner of Hamdi Issac.
Soledad.
O'BRIEN: A couple quick questions for you, Nic. Ismael Abdurahman charged, as you say. But what exactly do authorities think he did?
ROBERTSON: Well it seems, from what they say, that between the 23rd and the 28th of July, he knew where Hamdi Issac was or knew that he was about to flee the country. The police are saying that he had information that could have prevented or could have prevented somebody fleeing, could have prevented or help lead to the capture and prosecution of somebody connected to acts of terrorism. So it seems that they, the police, believe that he knew that Hamdi Issac was on the verge of fleeing and indeed did leave the country.
O'BRIEN: Nic, police are now saying, as you pointed out, that it looks like these two bombings are not technically linked. The one on the 7th and the ones on the 21st. Or ones I should say. But is there a sense that they are, in fact, philosophically linked?
ROBERTSON: Certainly. It seems to be that perhaps the second one is not a copycat of the first, more of an echo. And that's what we sort of have indications of coming from Hamdi Issac. They had seen his group, his cell, had seen this other attack happen, had been angered by these videos about Iraq that they'd watched and felt that they, too, had to act. So it was sort of an echo rather than a copy- cat. But the very fact that they were ready to go with explosives, that they knew how to build these bombs, is an indication for the police that really there could be more people like them out there.
Soledad.
O'BRIEN: Nic Robertson in London for us this evening.
Nic, thank you very much for the update.
Amid all the questions, another videotape message from Osama bin Laden's number two man surfaced today. For anyone wondering whether there will be any more attacks in London or elsewhere, Ayman al- Zawahiri had the answer. Here's CNN's Matthew Chance.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To the British, I'm telling you that Blair brought you destruction in the middle of London and more will come God willing.
MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): A message from the al Qaeda leadership. Ayman al-Zawahiri, blaming the British prime minister and threatening more strikes. A rifle at his side.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jake Osama (ph) told you, don't dream of peace before we live it as a reality in Palestine. And until all infidel troops pull out of the land of Mohammed (ph). Instead, you ran rivers of blood in our land and we blew volcano of anger in your land.
CHANCE: That grieve is often repeated by al Qaeda. The experts doubt the fateful July 7th attacks in London or the failed bombings two weeks later were directly ordered.
PROF. MICHAEL CLARK, KING'S COLLEGE, LONDON: I think the importance of this statement is that al Qaeda wants to claim credit for what is going on in London. I suspect they didn't know a whole lot about it. And certainly the timing and maybe the nature of the attacks. But having happened, they want us all to believe that there's part of a coherent, proper campaign that they're conducting against western countries.
CHANCE: And with its leaders believed confined to mountain hideouts along the Afghan border with Pakistan, analysts say al Qaeda has become a less-structured organization, more a loose ideology. Messages like this latest one apparently taped outside in front of a woven cloth, becoming crucial instruments to attract recruits and scare the west.
PAUL EEDLE, TERRORISM ANALYST: He is trying to stir up further fear and concern in London. Of course he is. There's a very clear (INAUDIBLE) strategy here that's been running for nearly 10 years, which is to try to break the will of western countries, to project their power into the Middle East.
CHANCE: And at a time of jangled nerves and tight security across the British capital, this latest al Qaeda broadcast clearly timed to terrorize.
Matthew Chance, CNN, London.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: President Bush, who's on a working vacation at his Texas ranch, said he will not be intimidated by the threats made by Zawahiri.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The Iraqis want to live in a free society. Zawahiri doesn't want them to live in a free society. And that's the clash of ideologies. Freedom versus tyranny.
We have had these kinds of clashes before and we have prevailed. We have prevailed because we're right. We have prevailed because we adhere to a hopeful philosophy. And we prevailed because we would not falter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Al Qaeda's role in the London bombings is still somewhat unclear but it is fair to say that many of the suspects in custody share common ground and similar backgrounds. In the face of a terrorist threat is racial profiling OK? Is it worth trading civil rights for increased security? Dov Hikind is a Democrat who serves in the New York State Assembly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Do you support racial profiling when it comes to terrorism?
DOV HIKIND, (D) NY ASSEMBLYMAN: I call it terrorist profiling.
O'BRIEN: But it's essentially racial profiling?
HIKIND: I call it being real. I call it looking at the terrorism since September 11th, the 19 people involved in that terrorism. The Madrid bombing. The London bombing of July 7th and the attempted bombing of the 21st of July. And you look at the entire group. The 15 people on the FBI most wanted list posted on the Internet. All the individuals involved in all of these situations happen to be young. They have to come from the Middle Eastern or South Asian region of the world. They happen to be Muslim. All I'm saying is, to neglect looking at this reality, not to go with the statistics, is crazy. Is nuts. Not to go with the odds doesn't make sense.
O'BRIEN: But are you also saying who authorities should be looking at? Who they should be racially profiling are young, Middle Eastern men?
HIKIND: Absolutely. Absolutely. But that does not mean they shouldn't look you know, people joke around about a 75-year-old woman who's being stopped and what's the need for doing that. Let the police officers, let the enforcement authorities do what they need to do. If there are 15 people entering a transit system and all of them are Middle Eastern, young, et cetera . . .
O'BRIEN: Stop them all?
HIKIND: No. Well, stop them all or stop none of them. Let the police officer decide what to do instead of tying the hands of the police. It doesn't make sense. Let the police officers do what they need to do.
O'BRIEN: But don't you run the risk of the same circumstance that you had in London where you have a young man who's not Middle Eastern. He's actually Brazilian. But, boy, Brazilians look Middle Eastern potentially (ph). Lots of people look like they could be fit the profile. And technically don't fit the profile.
HIKIND: There will . . .
O'BRIEN: And they get shot and killed because they actually are being racially profiled.
HIKIND: There's a war on terror. There are people out there who want to kill thousands of Americans. The situation today is very, very different than what it was before September 11th.
O'BRIEN: So it's OK that a 27-year-old electrician is killed?
HIKIND: So God forbid God forbid. And innocent people will be stopped and they will have to spend more time. But the price that we can potentially pay in terms of those who want to kill thousands of Americans, it is a price that I think most Americans are willing to pay. I would never have supported most of the things that are advocated in the Patriot Act prior to September 11th. But since the disaster of September 11th, the world has changed. And we need to deal with a situation where there are those who want to kill thousands of Americans. We need to zero in on this particular group. That doesn't mean to exclude anyone else. That doesn't mean to exclude individuals.
O'BRIEN: And if mistakes are made, even if some of those mistakes are fatal?
HIKIND: You know, mistakes are made in this world, unfortunately. You know, my son is my son-in-law is of Iranian descent. He is dark complectioned. He gets more attention when he goes to an airport. Police officers will sometimes question him more than they will other people. That's part of the price we have to pay.
O'BRIEN: You're view you're fine with your son-in-law being stopped more than most people because of what he looks like?
HIKIND: Because of the situation that exists today, the reality that we are a target, that's . . .
O'BRIEN: Is your son-in-law fine with that?
HIKIND: By the way yes, he is. And many people who I represent in my community of Middle Eastern descent are no different in terms of what I am advocating. The point is this. When a bomb, God forbid, goes off in a subway station, it doesn't differentiate between a Muslim, a Jew and a Christian. And we need to be real about this. These are different circumstances. This is war.
O'BRIEN: Dov Hikind, nice to see you. Thanks for talking with us. HIKIND: A pleasure. Absolutely.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: In just a moment, pleading insanity and then claiming to be cured. Is one man getting away with murder? First, though, at about quarter past the hour, it's time for the other headlines from Erica Hill over at "Headline News."
Hey. Good evening, Erica.
ERICA HILL, "HEADLINE NEWS": Hi, Soledad. Nice to see you.
We start off with an update on Supreme Court Justice William Rehnquist. He's now been released from a Washington hospital. He was taken there this afternoon after developing a fever. The chief justice is 80. He's undergoing treatments for thyroid cancer. Last month, you may recall, he was in the hospital for observation and tests but a few days later told reporters he's not about to retire yet.
NASA says a slightly crumpled thermal blanket is no danger to the shuttle, so there won't be another space walk. Discovery is set to return to Earth on Monday, ending the first shuttle mission in more than two-and-a-half years.
And federal authorities have arrested a Maryland man on charges of providing material support to a foreign terrorist organization. A complaint filed in U.S. district court in Manhattan charges that Farut Brent (ph) conspired to help a terrorist group based in Pakistan from 2001 until May of this year. Prosecutors also allege he attended a terrorist training camp led by the group.
Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld insists any connection between London and the Iraq War is, in his words, nonsense. He also warned Syria for "not behaving in a wise manner" by aiding Iraqi insurgents. Rumsfeld was speaking to the World Affairs Council in Los Angeles.
And, Soledad, that's the latest from "Headline News" at this hour. We'll be back with more in about a half hour.
O'BRIEN: All right. We'll see you then, Erica. Thanks a lot.
There's much more ahead on NEWSNIGHT, starting with a question. Can a killer who's declared insane recover in just a matter of months?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The shock, the (INAUDIBLE), the anger, the frustration, the loss. You can't even put it into words.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: This man killed her son and a jury found him not guilty by reason of insanity.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I absolutely think that he was acting.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Eleven months later, his doctors say he's cured.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a young man who's made incredible progress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: She says he's getting away with murder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son is dead. He was murdered.
He died here and this is where his soul departed was from here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: She says this is a sacred reminder of the son she lost. He says it's a roadside hazard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not against roadside memorials but we're for pubic safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't know where we're going to live. It's we're hanging. I mean, we don't know what to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: The government's trying to take away their home. And it's perfectly legal, at least for now. How they're fighting back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't explain why I love this one so much, but I do. It just says, roach spray, batteries, watermelon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: A shopping list, love letters, all the scraps of paper that we lose and he finds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What these file notes capture is just the smallest moments of everyday life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O'BRIEN: Moments that have become a magazine. From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: A startling development this week as police try to unravel the history of a sex offender named Joseph Edward Duncan. Duncan is now accused of murdering three people in May in Coeur D'Alene, Idaho, then abducting two children and killing one of them. Now authorities in California say Duncan may have murdered another child back in 1997. Peter Viles has our story from Riverside, California, tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PETER VILES, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): He spent much of his life in prison, then surfaced last month in Idaho where he's now accused of killing four people and kidnapping Shasta Groene. Now the big question for law enforcement, where was Joseph Edward Duncan when he wasn't in prison? And was he involved in the disappearance of other children?
MISTY COOPER, AUNT OF SHASTA GROENE: They would have kept him in and he would have never got out, then none of this would have ever happened to any other child.
VILES: Investigators are looking at Southern California where eight years ago a boy disappeared and authorities looked for this man and never found him. And now suspect that the killer was Duncan.
SHERIFF BOB DOYLE, RIVERSIDE COUNTY, CALIFORNIA: Credible evidence has been developed in the Anthony Martinez case that makes Joseph Edward Duncan, of the Idaho case, our prime suspect.
VILES: Anthony Martinez was a 10-year-old boy abducted from the small town of Beaumont in April, 1997. The whole town prayed for him and searched for him on horseback and with dogs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to assign you a specific area to go to.
VILES: But after two weeks it was over. The boy's body found in a canyon 70 miles away. A partial fingerprint taken at the scene led nowhere until new fingerprinting was ordered for Duncan this summer.
DOYLE: The print on Mr. Duncan was actually that was able to be validated was on the side of his thumb. Not on the actual part of the finger that we think about, you know, when we fingerprint.
VILES: The connection was made by FBI agents. During questioning in the Groene case, Duncan mentioned the Martinez case, according to the sheriff. On this web blog, believed to be written by Duncan, strong hints of previous crimes. "I was in prison for over 18 years. All those years I dreamed of getting out. I got out and got even but did not get caught."
DOYLE: This was one, sick individual. I'm talking sick.
VILES: Eight years ago, Anthony Martinez's mother lived a nightmare.
DIANA MEDINA, MOTHER OF ANTHONY RAMIREZ: Just every minute passes by, you know, waiting for the phone to ring and you just it's just a horrible wait.
VILES: Now there is finally a suspect and the mother has mixed feelings.
MEDINA: Your life will obviously never be the same. You'll never feel safe. You'll never have the security that you have, so you'll never have closure but you'll have answers to questions that you had before. Maybe not all of them but some answers that you were looking for.
VILES: The FBI isn't saying much about this case, except that it is trying to figure out exactly where else Joseph Duncan has been and whether there are any children missing in those places.
Peter Viles for CNN, Riverside, California.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: In 1982, after trying to kill President Ronald Reagan, John Hinckley Jr. was found not guilty by reason of insanity. The public reaction was outrage. The insanity plea is used in a tiny percentage of murder trials. And in three out of four cases, it fails. When it works, though, most expect the defendant, like John Hinckley Jr., will spend a very long time in a mental institution. After all, murder has been committed. In one Nevada case, though, that expectation could be turned on its head.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN, (voice over): Those who new him say John Trowbridge was a gentle soul and a living son.
ROBBIN TROWBRIDGE-BENKO, MOTHER OF VICTIM: The last words I ever heard my son say to me alive were "I love you, mom."
O'BRIEN: Last September, Robbin Trowbridge-Benko went through something no mother should every have to endure, the trial of the man who killed her son.
TROWBRIDGE-BENKO: The shock. The fog. The anger. The frustration. The loss. You can't even put it into words.
O'BRIEN: Now, just 11 months after her son's killer was found not guilty by reason of insanity, he could be released from a mental hospital as early as tomorrow.
TROWBRIDGE-BENKO: It was a sense of shock. I could not believe that something like this would happen.
O'BRIEN: John Trowbridge moved to Las Vegas in 2001 after a few years in the Navy. Not long after, he was brutally stabbed to death at a Las Vegas house party by an acquaintance named Michael Kane. Kane, who had taken LSD the night of the murder, later told doctors he was delusional. Doctors testified that he suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. The jury's verdict? Not guilty of reason of insanity.
SCOTT COFFEE, KANE'S PUBLIC DEFENDER: If you can't use the insanity defense in a case like this, for a young man like this, then there's not much use in having it on the books. You've got somebody that is insane. That inside their delusion believes that they are protecting themselves.
O'BRIEN: Doctors at a Nevada state-run mental hospital have been treating Michael Kane since his trial ended in September. Now his attorney, Scott Coffee, says the state's doctors believe his client is no longer mentally ill. He will argue for Kane's release tomorrow in a Nevada courtroom. Because Kane faces no criminal charges, he could be released if a judge agrees that he's no longer mentally ill.
COFFEE: This is a young man who's made incredible progress. I mean when he was after he was arrested, he was (INAUDIBLE) psychotic. He improved to the point where we could have the trial last year. And he's been improving ever since.
O'BRIEN: Detective Phil Ramos doesn't buy that. He took Michael Kane's confession just a few hours after the murder.
PHIL RAMOS, LAS VEGAS METRO DETECTIVE (Retired): I absolutely think that he was acting. He knew that he was in trouble. And quite a bit of trouble. And realized that he had to do something really bizarre and something really drastic to keep from going to prison for the rest of his life. And I think that's exactly what he did.
O'BRIEN: Ramos also worries about the precedent the case will set if Michael Kane is released.
RAMOS: These killers are not dummies. They see what's happening here. And I guarantee you this issue will be brought up again for somebody who's desperate enough to come up with that kind of idea to get out of going to prison.
O'BRIEN: That's exactly what John Trowbridge's mother wants to prevent. She's fighting to strengthen the Nevada law and fighting to keep her son's memory alive.
TROWBRIDGE-BENKO: My case is not an anomaly. My son is not an anomaly. My son is dead. He was murdered. He was killed by Michael Kane. I'm here to let everyone know that though I had to bury my son, his voice will be heard.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT tonight, the backlash begins and spreads and picks up political steam. The battle over the government's right to take your house. And the fury it's fueling.
And roadside memorials. They're meant to remind us of tragedy. But some might cause more tragedy.
From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Who's got the final say about your home? If you think you do, you're probably wrong. The government can claim your house if it needs your property for a road or a school or a strip mall. But now a backlash as homeowners around the country aren't talking it lying down. CNN's Jason Carroll has the story of a couple who are furious and they're fighting back.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT, (voice over): Josephine and Carmine Vendetti lived in their home in Long Branch, New Jersey, nearly half a century.
You built this house?
CARMINE VENDETTI: We built it, right.
CARROLL: Forty-five years ago?
CARMINE VENDETTI: Right.
CARROLL: Not only did they build it and pay it off, they hope to retire here. But now the city wants to take it all away.
JOSEPHINE VENDETTI, HOMEOWNER: Stressful. Angry. To think that you own something free and clear and now it's costing us money to get a lawyer. We don't know where we're going to live. We're hanging. I mean we don't know what to do.
CARROLL: The Vendetti's home is one of about 30 standing in the way of high-priced condos starting at $700,000 the city wants to build as part of a redevelopment project. The city plans to use the power of eminent domain to seize their property.
JOSEPHINE VENDETTI: This is your house. You know, there's so more mortgage, nothing, and then they're just going to come and take it. Now, you've got to go get a mortgage.
ADAM SCHNEIDER, MAYOR, LONG BRANCH: I think they've got to come to the table and negotiate. If they choose not to, I think it's going to be to their own detriment.
CARROLL: Long Branch's mayor says the project is creating a beautiful, thriving community, where run-down beachfront property once stood. And he says homeowners like the Vendetti's were offered a fair price for their home, $400,000. He's confident they'll have to go.
SCHNEIDER: Look, the law permits us to do what we were doing. CARROLL: But maybe not for long. New Jersey is one of more than a dozen states in which proposed legislation would limit the use of eminent domain for commercial uses. Under a recent U.S. appeals court decision saying the Constitution allows states to seize homes. (INAUDIBLE).
Alabama's governor was outraged and has already signed the first state property protection law.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The ruling is resonated for the millions of Americans because it hits literally at home.
CARROLL: Federal legislation that would limit eminent domain has also been introduced.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be working together, to accomplish our goal, which is to rein back in this broad interpretation of the Fifth Amendment of the constitution, in a way that protects all of us from the awesome power of government to take private property for private uses.
CARROLL: Property rights advocates expect more legislation to follow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: States are going to have to change the law because the public outrage against this is so overwhelming. And it's nonpartisan. Everybody hates this. And everyone thinks that it needs to be changed.
CARROLL: Not everyone. Not those in Long Branch who are enjoying their breech front.
MAURA LUCARELLI, RESIDENT: It has to be developed. It looks gorgeous. It's bringing income to the community. So, I feel bad where are they going to go? It's very expensive around here. But it's part of life. I mean ...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah. There's, like, no win-win situation.
CARROLL: The Vendettis (ph) know that all too well.
What do you do? You then just keep fighting then? Is that what you do?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure.
CARROLL: For how long?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Until they drag us out.
CARROLL: They're hoping that day never comes. But they're ready if it does.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Long Branch, New Jersey.
(END VIDEOTAPE) O'BRIEN: So you think it couldn't happen to you? Think again. Susette Kelo bought a cottage in New London, Connecticut eight years ago. She thought it was the perfect spot. And so did the local government, who decided her house should be torn down to make room for office buildings. Ms. Kelo took the city to court and lost. And kept losing all the way to the Supreme Court, which ruled against her. Despite the legal losses, Kelo is winning in the war of public opinion.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: There is, of course, the argument that was argued certainly in the Supreme Court, which was that the government sometimes has to take possession of people's homes or property for the greater public good, whether you're talking about building roads or building schools or services or making decisions that are somehow going to affect the community. Do you think overall that's just wrong?
SUZETTE KELO, FIGHTING EMINENT DOMAIN LAW: Well, for a bridge or a road or a school, certainly I don't think that's wrong. I think it's sad when something has to happen. But this isn't for a bridge or a road or a school. This is for private use.
O'BRIEN: So, what does that mean for your house potentially? Are you feeling like you're going to stay in your home or do you think that in fact at the end of the day it's going to go?
KELO: Well, at this point, I'm not going to count my chickens before they hatch, so to speak. We have to wait and see what the legislators do. Certainly the governor has put a moratorium on any eminent domain on the state.
O'BRIEN: So at least for now everything right now is stalled. What happens if you lose and they have to take your house?
KELO: Well, I'm not going. So, I'm not really quite sure what's going to happen. We've decided as the seven of us together that we're not going to leave. And I suspect they're going to have to come remove us.
O'BRIEN: Wow. If it comes to that, what do you envision doing if you're not going?
KELO: I'm not really sure yet. I think we have plans for, you know -- I mean, who knows. People say you're going to chain yourself to your house or whatever. But I'm really not sure what's going to entail.
O'BRIEN: Have you thought about chaining yourself to your house in the event that someone comes to take away your home?
KELO: I think I said they'd have to drag me out by my ankles, so something to that effect sure.
O'BRIEN: That sounds like you may chain yourself to your house to me.
KELO: Yeah.
O'BRIEN: Susette Kelo, thanks for being with us. We appreciate it, Susette.
KELO: Thank you for your time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: More on this topic now with CNN's legal analyst, Jeff Toobin. Good evening.
JEFF TOOBIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Howdy.
O'BRIEN: Have you been surprised not only the outpouring of public support, but by the bipartisan nature of this support?
TOOBIN: Shocked. Liberals, everybody seems to hate this.
O'BRIEN: Why is it shocking?
TOOBIN: Because this is not new. Eminent domain for private use. In the 1980s, the City of Detroit condemned, basically, a whole neighborhood called Poletown (ph) and gave it to General Motors for a factory. That was approved by the courts. Many times this has been approved by the courts. But this decision by the court last month, has prompted this tremendous outrage.
O'BRIEN: It seems, though, where people draw the line is between a highway, okay. You need highways. Schools, you got to have schools. And some private company building a strip mall, where homes use to be -- homes that don't necessarily need to be condemned.
TOOBIN: Correct. But remember, the line between public and private isn't always that easy to draw. What about a private hospital? What about a museum? And politicians -- you've heard them say. I created this many jobs in the community. We developed -- they think that development, stores, housing, is something they're proud to do. So, if they have to condemn, you know, two or three old houses to create a, you know, shopping center that will create 50 jobs, they think it's worthwhile, apparently a lot of people don't. But a lot of politicians do.
O'BRIEN: The new legislation, would there be limits -- for those states that have it or are considering it, working on it, limits, though, to how much they would block the powers of eminent domain on the part of the government?
TOOBIN: Well, they have to allow for truly public use. You know, for schools. For highways. That always has to be allowed. And remember, the Supreme Court didn't say that communities have to do this. The communities -- all the Supreme Court said is it permissible if they want to. I don't understand why everybody is attacking the court. You ought to attack the politicians who are using the power this way. But, you know, these states are really -- looks like going to shut down this process.
O'BRIEN: In Susette Kelo's case, where she has basically said, and I believe her, she's going to chain herself to her house and be dragged away if that's what it comes to. Is that what it's going to come to? What do you think is going to happen in that specific case?
TOOBIN: I hate to say with Miss Kelo, it's definitely going to come to that. She has taken her case as far as it's possibly gone. The name of the case is Kelo versus City of New London. She lost ...
O'BRIEN: Nothing a local government can do to overturn that?
TOOBIN: She can go to court to argue about the price. People do that with eminent domain all the time. They say it's not fair market value. But in terms of whether the government can do it, she's taken the case as far as it can go, she lost.
O'BRIEN: Jeff Toobin ...
TOOBIN: Nice to see you.
O'BRIEN: ... as always, nice to see you. Thanks, Jeff. Still to come on NEWSNIGHT -- bouquets and notes left by the side of a road, all across the country, are a reminder of the danger we face on the highway. Or do they pose a danger themselves?
And why should we care about a bunch of anonymous notes torn? And dusty flyers? And shopping lists. You'll be surprised. After all, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Flowers and photographs that mark the spot of a highway accident remind drivers of who and what was lost. That's how the people who put them there feel. But with more and more roadside memorial visible these days, others worry that drivers will be more distracted than moved. One Massachusetts town hopes that a new law will solve the problem.
Alina Cho has our report.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ALINA CHO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Diana Natale youngest was 23 when he died in a car accident. Her home became a shrine to Keith, inside and out. Then, there's this memorial, a mile away, where the accident happened.
DIANA NATALE, MOTHER: The angel's here because he was an angel.
CHO: Natale drives by it almost every day.
NATALE: He died here. This is where his soul departed, from here.
CHO: She also visits the cemetery where her son is buried. But it isn't the same.
NATALE: He's here. He's resting here. We know he's here but he died there.
CHO: A year after Keith's roadside memorial went up, she noticed parts of it were disappearing.
NATALE: It wasn't like the things were removed nicely, they were destroyed.
CHO: And at first you thought what?
NATALE: Vandalism.
CHO: It wasn't.
JIM PURCELL, TOWN MANAGER, NORTON, MA: We're not against roadside memorials but for public safety.
CHO: Jim Purcell, town manager of Norton, Massachusetts says this memorial got out of hand.
PURCELL: There was a fully decorated Christmas tree at the site. And the following Easter, there were inflatable Easter bunnies.
CHO: Those decorations, Purcell says, caused rubber necking. He says he had to tear down parts of the memorial so history wouldn't repeat itself. When Natale realized what was going on, she picked up the phone.
NATALE: I told him I do not work a 9:00 to 5:00 job. And if it took me every day to get up every day and put a wooden cross, nothing else, a wooden cross, up there, I would do that and Keith would always be remembered at that tree.
CHO: The town of Norton has since passed a bylaw, allowing roadside memorials for just 30 days.
(on camera): Part of the reason why the issue is so controversial is because there's no federal law governing roadside memorials. Many states have no policy at all. A few have outright bans. And others have adopted something between.
(voice-over): Colorado allows loved ones to buy a state-made sign that says please drive safely and the name of the deceased. Wisconsin will remove memorials after contacting the family if there's a complaint. Or if it decides there's a safety hazard. West Virginia allows temporary and permanent memorials.
This is really about awareness.
NATALE: Awareness, absolutely.
CHO: Natale says her son's so-called memorial marker could help prevent another accident. She's placed red reflectors on either side of the tree. The people who would say this is a safety hazard, you say, looking at this could actually save someone's life?
NATALE: Right. Even myself before I lost Keith, I'd go by a memorial and I'd think, that's awful. Now, it really hits home.
CHO: The town and she have reached a compromise. A smaller memorial to her son will be allowed to stay.
Alina Cho, CNN, Norton, Massachusetts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Coming up next -- ever lose a shopping list or post a flyer for your lost puppy? Leave a note on your windshield? Would you believe it could end up being published? Believe it because this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: In just a moment, the scraps of our lives, paper scraps and what they say about us but first and about a quarter of the hour, time for the other headlines from Erica Hill at Headline News. Hey, Erica.
ERICA HILL, CNNHN ANCHOR: We start off in northern Israel, where an Israeli army deserter opened fire on a bus carrying Israeli Arab passengers. Authorities say four were killed. At least a dozen others wounded before an angry crowd beat the gunman to death.
Two former officials of the pro-Israel lobbying group AIPAC were charged with conspiring with a Pentagon analyst to obtain and disclose classified national defense information. U.S. prosecutor allege Steve Rosen and Keith Wiesman divulged the information to several members of the media. A senior fellow at a Washington DC think tank and four government officials.
The front line fighter jet of the navy and marines had a series of recent accidents blamed on brake failure. And military records obtained by the Associated Press show the problem may have plagued the jet since 1990. The AP says one Navy wing commander last year warned the brake problem could kill pilots and ruin valuable aircraft, this after one of his jets roared off a runway and splashed into the San Diego Bay, destroying the $30 million plane.
Finally, Congresswoman Katherine Harris, has again accused newspapers of doctoring photos to distort her makeup on a way to mock her. In an interview on a conservative radio talk show, Harris, who is running for U.S. Senate seat next year, said some newspapers, but didn't name which ones, altered photos during the 2000 presidential election recount when she was Florida secretary of state. Soledad?
O'BRIEN: All right, Erica, thanks.
Just as art can be sometimes accidental, the most pedestrian words can sometimes become poetry. Especially when they reveal far more than the person who wrote them probably ever intended. Even more, as Beth Nissen explains when they are discovered and interpreted and championed by a total stranger.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BETH NISSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Davy Rothbart went to his car one morning a few years ago to find this angry note on his windshield, written to some guy named Mario.
DAVY ROTHBART, "FOUND" MAGAZINE: It said, Mario hate you. You said you had to work. Why is your car here at her place. You're a liar. I hate you. I hate. Signed Amber. P.S., page me later. She's so upset and still hopeful and in love with him. I showed it to everybody I met. I thought it was so striking. But I wished there was a way to share it with more people.
NISSEN: There was. He created "Found" magazine. An annually published collection and updated Website of lost notes, tossed notes, Post-Its, misplaced doodles and discarded photos that he and a small staff edit together with scotch tape and merriment in his Ann Arbor Michigan basement.
ROTHBART: There's so many other people that share my fascination with the little scraps of other people's lives.
NISSEN: Scraps like shopping lists found on supermarket floors and in shopping carts.
ROTHBART: I can't explain why I love this one so much, but I do. It says roach spray, batteries, watermelon. What these found notes capture is just the smallest moments of everyday life. There might be a list. Dennis' list. What I have to do today. And you'll see all these small things. Take clothes to the dry cleaner. Return videos. And learn to live free.
NISSEN: There are a lot of flyers. For rent sides for three bedrooms on Montrose. For sale signs. His and her gold wedding bands, never used.
ROTHBART: People use that old-school tactic of taping up flyers all around town. And then, the flyers end up blowing around the streets. People pick them up and send them to us.
NISSEN: Flyers about pets, lost and found. Lost, a cobra that answers to "Psycho." This cat and this cat. Found, a pet bunny who looks like this from the front and this from behind.
ROTHBART: One of my favorite flyers are the do you want to join my band type of flyer.
NISSEN: A band looking for a bass player. A band looking for a guitarist and a bass player and a drummer and a lead singer.
ROTHBART: The kid that made the flyer, what was he going to do?
NISSEN: Another common category, notes on windshields. ROTHBART: A whole genre of notes is angry parking notes.
NISSEN: This was on a car illegally parked in a church parking lot. If this persists, we will have you towed, in Jesus' name. This Yoda-like note was on a car that was taking up two spaces. "Inconsiderate must come to the minds of all that think of you."
Rothbart depends on a broad range and growing number of volunteer finders across the U.S. and outside it. Ground gazers, he calls them.
ROTHBART: A kid as young as six years old found stuff and sent it in. People as old as 96. Teachers. Kids are great at losing things. And the things that teacher sends us are priceless. One of my favorite kinds of notes are the ones that seventh graders are writing each other.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: ... and it's so retarded. Sexual reproduction. Eww.
NISSEN: Many found notes are written by those out of that eww stage.
ROTHBART: So many of these notes resolve around relationships.
NISSEN: Expressing perfect love and imperfect love.
ROTHBART: I'm struck at how short a note can be and give you a powerful sense of somebody and what's going on with them.
NISSEN: Like this pro and con list, written by a woman trying to decide between Andrew and Paul.
ROTHBART: Bad things. Andrew crazy, Paul crazier. Then the good things, Andrew sex, Paul money. A lot of the notes you find, are someone just kind of sorting out their thoughts about something.
NISSEN: There are found letters from 1928. Photos from 1942. E-mails from 1999. There are warnings. Hints. And a flyer that just advertises Steve.
ROTHBART: Some of the found notes are hilarious. They're crazy. Some of them are really sad. Some of them someone apologizing. Any emotion that has ever been felt in this universe has been expressed is probably in a note that's lost and blowing down the street right now.
NISSEN: Waiting to be found. Beth Nissen, CNN, Ann Arbor, Michigan.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O'BRIEN: Ahead on NEWSNIGHT -- a bomb drops. A war begins. A trip ends in tragedy. This week in history when we return.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: A city decimated. A nation invaded. An airliner destroyed. Here's this week in history.
(voice-over): This week in history, in 1945, a U.S. Air Force B- 29 bomber dropped an atomic bomb on Hiroshima, Japan. The bomb leveled the city. And killed over time, over 150,000 people. In 1990, Iraqi forces invaded Kuwait and quickly gained control of the country.
And a Korean airliner slammed into the rocky hills of the Pacific island of Guam, on August 5th, 1997. But there were at least 30 survivors. And that is "This Week in History."
(on camera): Coming up next -- our picture of the day. And we'll tell you about an icy look.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O'BRIEN: Welcome back everybody. Look, this is the picture of the day. Quick, anybody want to guess what it is? Come on, anybody, anybody? It is a telescope with icicles and that's a tourist peering through - it was taken at German's highest peak, the altitude 9,000 feet at Zugspitze in Germany. Just after noon today, 97 degrees here in New York and 32 there.
That's it for this edition of NEWSNIGHT, I'm Soledad O'Brien.
TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com
