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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
State of Emergency: Pols Grill Cabinet over Katrina Relief on Hill; Evacuees Settle
Aired September 06, 2005 - 23:01 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: At the top of the hour, here is the major development tonight. In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina it has clearly spread now to the halls of Congress, a meeting on Capitol Hill tonight, a meeting between members of the House and the cabinet, cabinet officials responsible for the handling of the disaster, a meeting that got very contentious, perhaps even more than contentious. CNN's Ed Henry has been doing some reporting on what was said, though the meeting itself took place behind closed doors.
Ed, good evening again.
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good evening, Aaron. That's right, lawmakers emerging from that meeting are telling us in private that in fact it was about three hours of grilling for Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff and several other Bush cabinet secretaries as one Democrat and Republican after another pounded away at these secretaries, saying that they did not move quickly enough in the immediate aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
In fact, after Mr. Chertoff and his colleagues were finished, one Republican, we are told, stood up and basically said that despite the rosy scenarios these secretaries put out about how they're turning the corner with this disaster, this Republican stood up and said he felt that these secretaries deserved failing grades.
And in fact, we were just told by a Democrat, Elijah Cummings, the former chair of the Congressional Black Caucus, that Mr. Chertoff also raised some eyebrows at one point in this meeting by saying -- he told the lawmakers that basically the situation at the Superdome was not as bad as it seemed, despite the television images about the squalor, about the difficulties that so many of the refugees.
Democrats now also out of this meeting pressing for Congress to get more serious about hearings, an investigation here on the Hill, also pressing for an independent commission to take a look at what went wrong.
And in fact, all -- before all of tonight's fireworks, House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, at a White House meeting with the president, pointedly told the president she feels the FEMA director, Michael Brown, is in incompetent and should be fired. She pushed very hard on that.
And Republicans, I can tell you, on the Hill, they know this is politically explosive, the charge that the federal government, which is run entirely by Republicans, did not move quick enough to save lives. That's why people like House Majority Leader Tom DeLay are moving very quickly now for some damage control. Also trying to circle the wagons, push back.
Tom DeLay, in fact, came out of this contentious meeting tonight to talk to reporters. And he told us a short while ago this was not the federal government's fault, the situation in Louisiana basically was the fault of local and state officials.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TOM DELAY (R-TX), MAJORITY LEADER: The emergency response system was set up to work from the bottom up. And it's the local officials trying to handle the problem. When they can't handle the problem, they go to the state. And the state does what they can do. And if they need assistance from FEMA and the federal government, they ask for it. And it's delivered.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HENRY: Now Tom DeLay also revealed to us that he has now basically squashed any hearings by one of his own Republican committee chairman who announced a few hours ago that in fact he was going to have an investigation of what went wrong at FEMA and other federal agencies.
DeLay saying the reason why -- he's not trying to sweep this under the carpet, but he says the reason is he feels it would be unseemly right now for Congress to be hauling federal officials who are trying to deal with the relief efforts, haul them before Congress to explain what happened.
He said there is plenty of time to do that down the road. But I had asked Mr. DeLay directly whether or not he still has confidence in Mr. Brown at FEMA. And very pointedly Mr. DeLay did not mention Mr. Brown's name, instead saying that he has confidence in the relief efforts in general. But he didn't say anything about Mr. Brown -- Aaron.
BROWN: Just one more thing on this. And that -- there is a memo that we got our hands on tonight that Mr. Brown -- Mike Brown wrote to his boss, Secretary Chertoff, requesting aid. And that -- the language and the tone of that memo is going to be part of the news of the next cycle.
HENRY: No question about it, that critics are going to try to seize that. And in fact, when you take a look at the memo, at one point this is a memo that was put out after the storm hit the same day in which Mr. Brown, writing to his boss, Mr. Chertoff, basically says at one point that he needs to get, quote, "we anticipate needing at least 1,000 additional DHS," that's homeland security "employees within 48 hours, and 2,000 within seven days."
Undoubtedly critics are going to pounce on that and say, why didn't they move more people in quicker? Why did they give them two to seven days to get more people in? I can tell you that homeland security officials are saying this is really not much in their estimation. They already had other people pre-positioned. These were just extra people. It was almost a formality. But as you said, Aaron, undoubtedly critics are going to pounce on this and say it's yet another example of Michael Brown being asleep at the switch -- Aaron.
BROWN: Well -- and when you look ultimately at the numbers of people involved, whether they're civilians for the Department of Homeland Security or National Guard troops and so on, a thousand people is absolute chump change.
HENRY: Absolutely. And again, homeland security officials say they had many other officials in the region, we're hearing as well, not just from Democrats, but from Republican senators like Trent Lott, in saying, not just the personnel, but in fact in terms of manpower and supplies, Trent Lott has said it took him days to get FEMA to release some trailers and other supplies from Atlanta to Mississippi.
And he basically only got those supplies after he called President Bush. And President Bush himself got on the phone and issued a direct order to FEMA, saying, get this to Mississippi. That's why a lot of critics are also saying it's time to make the FEMA director somebody who directly reports to the president, not the Homeland Security secretary so that the president can pick up the phone and issue a direct order like that -- Aaron.
BROWN: Ed, thank you. Good work tonight. Ed Henry reporting on things on Capitol Hill where they were angry. And anger is the subject here too.
"We're angry, Mr. President, and we'll be angry long after our beloved city and surrounding parishes have been pumped dry. Our people deserved rescuing. Many who could have were not. That's to the government's shame."
Those were the words and the editorial today in The New Orleans Times-Picayune. The editor, Jim Amoss, joins us tonight. It's nice to see you. When you hear Mr. DeLay say as he did, this is really the responsibility of state and local people, not the problem of the federal government, what is your reaction?
JIM AMOSS, EDITOR, THE NEW ORLEANS TIMES-PICAYUNE: Well, my reaction is that state and local officials always do have some role. But when you're talking about the greatest natural disaster to befall a major American city since perhaps the 1905 San Francisco earthquake, it's preposterous to suggest that local and state officials can play the kind of role that only the federal government can.
And equally preposterous to suggest that they should have sounded the alarm, that somehow word had not been received in Washington. And that is the anger that is behind this editorial of ours.
BROWN: And it is very angry, and it deals a lot with -- I mean, at one point I think you refer to some words coming out of the mouths of federal officials as bald-faced lies in terms of how they dealt with the response.
AMOSS: We were talking about FEMA officials who said that they couldn't muster the aid and that they hadn't known in advance that the storm was headed this way and that the levees would be topped.
BROWN: And this whole notion that they couldn't...
AMOSS: It's just not believable.
BROWN: That they couldn't get there, I think, was particularly galling to people in New Orleans.
AMOSS: It was galling because anyone could see plainly that access was relatively unimpeded. Our own reporters were going in and out. Media trucks of others were going in and out. Wal-Mart, as we observed in this editorial, had sent 13 trucks of relief for hurricane victims.
If these private citizens could come and go, why could not the federal government do so?
BROWN: How much better do you think things are today than they were, let's say, on Friday?
AMOSS: From a purely physical point of view, I think they're a good deal better. The pumps have started pumping. The water has gone down, although imperceptibly. People's morale has improved.
I spoke today with a friend of mine who stayed this week in New Orleans and bicycled around his neighborhood every day, and carried a weapon for the first two days and said that beginning yesterday he felt he no longer had to be armed to bike around the streets of our city. Those are improvements.
BROWN: That's a fascinating marker. Jim, it's good to talk to you. There are a lot of great newspaper jobs in the days ahead, I can't imagine there are many more interesting than the one you have. We look forward to talking to you. Thank you.
AMOSS: Thank you very much.
BROWN: Jim Amoss, who's the editor of The Times-Picayune newspaper.
Over the last two days, some of the storm evacuees have been able to return to homes in Jefferson Parish, which is just to the west of New Orleans. They have returned to face all that they've lost and to salvage what little they can.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): In a city slowly now giving back its floodwater to the lake from which it came, slowly completing an evacuation where not everyone wants to leave, slowly taking measure of those for whom it is simply too late, for that city today, there were promises that answers would come, accountability would be had for the failures of last week.
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R), MAINE: Katrina was a disaster that scientists, emergency management officials and political leaders had anticipated for years. Yet the initial response was woefully inadequate.
BROWN: The Congress will investigate, and the president promised to lead an investigation of his own.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: What I intend to do is lead an investigation to find out what went right and what went wrong.
BROWN: Setting aside the obvious, can the administration investigate itself, there are plenty of questions that need answering just as there are plenty of problems still to solve. Perhaps 10,000 people remain in the city, most unwilling to leave for whatever reasons. But patience with them seems to be running out as well.
CHIEF EDWIN COMPASS, NEW ORLEANS POLICE DEPARTMENT: We are trying to evacuate this city. We are in a planning stage right now to do this in a most expeditious and efficient manner.
And we are going to evacuate these individuals with or without their cooperation.
BROWN: The mayor says he believes most everyone who wants to be evacuated has been or very nearly so.
MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: We think that we had been spanning the city in a very effective way. The amount of people that we're taking out has started to slow down as far as distressed individuals.
BROWN: The city is unlivable, not simply because of the flooding or the lack of power and the rest, it is unlivable because of what can't be seen, the water being sent back into Lake Pontchartrain is contaminated with e. coli at least. A prescription for disease if you drink it, or even touch it and then touch your mouth with your hands. There has yet to be a widespread outbreak of disease, but the risk remains high.
There is not enough water pressure to deal with fires. This one was in the Garden District, military helicopters dropping loads of water on nearby buildings in an effort to save to them.
And there is this grim sign of the future. Authorities began preparing a huge morgue in a warehouse outside of Baton Rouge. A military unit which specializes in identifying the dead is coming to Louisiana.
Meanwhile, the effort to resettle tens of thousands of people goes on, some will end up as far west as Oregon, as far north as Minnesota, to the east in Massachusetts. In all those places, plans are being made to take in, to house, to support, to educate, to absorb the largest displacement of American citizens since the Civil War.
These people arrived today in Washington, D.C., many not knowing until the last minute where they were headed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Once we got on the plane, that's when I found out where we were going.
BROWN: Through it all, it will be a long time before the stories of New Orleans disappear. Sandra Reid (ph) certainly has her share. She took some photos of her journey to and from the Superdome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My grandchildren have no water, no nothing, anything. And they've kept on saying, mama, I'm thirsty, I'm thirsty. I said, just go to sleep.
They put us up in here with murderers. Tell me, how could they do that to us? They couldn't even protect us.
BROWN: Which brings us back to where we began tonight, of all the questions that need answering by the Congress or the president or some commission not yet named, Ms. Reid's questions rank first.
How could planners, local, state, and federal, have failed to understand that thousands of people would be left behind to fend for themselves in conditions like the Superdome, the convention center, the streets.
How could they have allowed that to happen?
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Questions for the Congress, questions for the country to deal with. That's the picture of New Orleans. Around New Orleans, in the parishes where the hurricane did most of the damage rather than the flooding so much from Lake Pontchartrain, families have been allowed to go back to their homes, if only briefly. Jefferson Parish an example of that. Traveling with these people is heartbreaking.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN (voice-over): Mark Wonja came back home today.
MARK WONJA, STORM EVACUEE: It has been a pretty numbing -- it has been a pretty difficult week, surreal, actually.
BROWN: His family safe in Houston, he came back to Hollywood Lane, Jefferson Parish, back to the place he made his life, raised his family, home, or what was left of it.
WONJA: This was our front yard. It kind of looks like bayous and swamps of southeast Louisiana now.
BROWN: The rug squished as he walked. The couch was a mass of cottony mold. Files and papers were stuck together, doors had swollen to the point they couldn't be opened.
WONJA: It's my daughter's -- she got accepted into kindergarten.
BROWN: Worst, the keepsakes, the small treasures of 21 years of marriage, gone.
WONJA: This is going to be tough. This is her yearbook from last year.
BROWN: Wonja was relieved that his wife and two teenage daughters had not come with him, had not seen what he was seeing.
WONJA: Yes, I don't think I would want to bring them back here until it's back like it was. This is a memory I would rather they not have or not see.
BROWN: But for all he had lost, he gets it. He still has what matters most.
WONJA: I'm still one of the luckier ones with what happened in the city and other parts of New Orleans, where the entire houses are submerged. That's pretty difficult to comprehend.
BROWN: He and his family will wait in Houston for the water to recede and the stench of rot and sewage to disappear. When they can, they will come back to Hollywood Lane in Jefferson Parish and rebuild and carry on.
WONJA: A lot of wonderful memories here, and hopefully there will be more.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Just outside of New Orleans.
Just ahead, they escaped the storm and the flooding and the life at the Superdome and the rest, but what next and where next?
And how can nature protect New Orleans from another Katrina?
We'll take a break, lots to cover, this is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Back months ago now, it seems that folks at the National Hurricane Center said this was going to be a very difficult and a very active year. They certainly got the difficult part right. And it is still active.
Jacqui Jeras is in Atlanta for us tracking the next storm -- Jacqui.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, Aaron, put it in this perspective, we're on number 16 here already. In an average season, you usually only have 10. So we're already well above the average. And the peak of the hurricane season is September 10th, but we see a lot of activity even throughout the month of October.
We've got Tropical Depression No. 16, the 11:00 Eastern time advisory just in, and it has a little bit of strengthening with it, 35 mile per hour for the maximum sustained winds right now. It's about 145 miles away from Cape Canaveral, and starting to drift ever so slightly up to the north and the west, but only moving about 3 miles per hour. So a very slow mover and a lot of uncertainty as to exactly where it's going to be going.
Tropical storm warnings have been posted from Titusville down to Jupiter Inlet, and a new tropical storm watch has been posted northward from Titusville on up towards Flagler Beach. A watch means tropical storm conditions are possible in 36 hours. A warning means they're likely in 24 hours. And this probably will be Tropical Storm Ophelia, the O-named storm, sometime tomorrow.
There you can see the forecast track continuing the northwestward drift. But it really making it up well south of Jacksonville still by Friday evening. So still not looking like it's going to be making landfall.
And take a look at the cone of uncertainty here. Some of the forecast models bring it way out into the Gulf of Mexico, others bring it up towards the Carolinas, and yet others bring it out here. So we have a lot of confidence over the next three days of what it is going to be doing, but beyond that, still not real sure. We'll keep you up to date -- Aaron.
BROWN: Sounds like a plan. Thank you, Jacqui. Jacqui Jeras in Atlanta.
One of the most intriguing stories of the day came out of Houston today. About this time last night we told you about a plan to move 4,000 refugees who had been in the Astrodome complex, which is the Astrodome itself and the two arenas around, and take them to Galveston, Texas, to put them on cruise ships.
Well, that plan was put on hold today because officials said that for many of the refugees the Astrodome now, or where they're staying in the complex, was home. And they don't want to get up and leave again. Sean Callebs joins us tonight from Houston again.
Sean, good to see you.
SEAN CALLEBS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good to see you, Aaron. Indeed, a lot of people thought that they would have folks lining up to get on buses very early in the morning, make that hour-and-a-half trip down to Galveston. But it wasn't the case.
You touched on the reasons. Think about all the work that many of these mostly elderly have done to get their benefits transferred here, to get their medications updated and in their pockets, to also let family members, who may be scattered all over the country, know they are here and know they are OK.
They were concerned if indeed they moved down to Galveston, they may have to begin all over again. Also for family members who may have made that trip, there is mass transportation right at the end of the Astrodome. They can get on a train, go downtown, begin applying for jobs, begin the first effort to look for homes, because so many who had been evacuated had indicated they will stay here in the Houston area.
Now a couple of other interesting notes. Also coming out, there is now a curfew in effect. So all the people in the Astrodome must be in by 11:00 in the evening. The gates will be locked out here from 11 p.m. to 5:30 in the morning. No one allowed in or out of there. You would have thought that so many people would have given up that small cot for a luxury suite on a cruise ship, that's certainly not the way.
Also finally, Aaron, some smiling faces in the Astrodome this evening, that's because one of New Orleans' favorite sons is inside right now performing. Harry Connick Jr. inside one of the upper decks, and really just warmed the hearts of so many people inside there, singing "When the Saints Come Marching In," people waving towels, dancing in the aisles, really the first time we saw people just have unbridled enthusiasm here for some time -- Aaron.
BROWN: Sean, thank you, He has been -- he's doing a lot of stuff -- has done a lot of stuff. He has been terrific. His roots go back -- they're very deep in the city. His father was a very important person, prominent citizen of the...
CALLEBS: Prosecutor.
BROWN: A prosecutor, the district attorney there. And so he has done a good deal. But the cruise boat story, I've got to tell you, it just tells you a lot about what these people have been through, and the idea of getting up and moving again, after what they've been through is a little more than they can deal with right now, at least.
Thank you, Sean Callebs who is in Houston.
Perhaps a week from now, if you make that offer again, people will snap it up, but not yet. For a start, a clear, well-lighted place may be more than enough for the hundreds of thousands of people who are -- who fled from the hurricane, some of whom are in Houston tonight, at least for now. But many of them will have to travel thousands and thousands more miles to find a place to stay eventually.
CNN's Bruce Morton tonight on the hurricane's homeless and how they are spreading out across the country.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to Detroit to both of you all, OK?
BRUCE MORTON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The evacuees from Hurricane Katrina have been hearing that welcome word welcome a lot lately. They are fanning out across the country, fleeing the storm- blasted Gulf Coast to at least 29 states plus the District of Columbia, more than 300,000 evacuees. There is even one report of people ending up in Alaska.
This is Washington, D.C., where several hundred are staying at the National Armory. Some places already have lots of evacuees, Houston's Astrodome is already turning people away. The city has more than 100,000 new arrivals. Other places, this is Portland, Oregon, are still getting ready. In Massachusetts, a military base on Cape Cod is being turned into a home. A lot of thing are the same everywhere. Kids get hugs, often. Clean sheets are welcome. And sometimes a session with a barber can cheer up your whole view of life.
The accommodations vary, stadiums, military barracks, schools, what the weary evacuees get is a bunch of things they have mostly done without lately: food, safe water to drink, a chance to clean up, to sleep on clean sheets and wear clean clothes. They know it's temporary. In a month they will be wondering about jobs and a permanent place to live, but right now these new clean places are very welcome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To me they are trying the best they can and I'm just so grateful that they've helped me as much as they have.
MORTON: They are glad to be clean and safe. And a lot of Americans are glad they are able to help.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, they have an opportunity, and if they can make it here, than they should do it. I think we should open our arms, they've gone through a tough time down there. And I think if we can help, we should.
MORTON: One man in Massachusetts, but he speaks for many.
Bruce Morton, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: The head of schools in the state of Louisiana said tonight that he suspects, he believes that the school districts in both New Orleans and in the parish nearest New Orleans will stay closed for the rest of the school year, which means kids will have to go to school somewhere else for a while. Now imagine educating, absorbing all these kids, whether it's in Texas or the state of Washington or anywhere else, and then imagine being one of those kids.
Here's CNN's Jason Carroll.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
LAUREN SHERMAN, STUDENT: Bye.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Memphis Catholic schools, the third week of class, but the first day for Lauren Sherman, she just arrived here. Hard as life can be for any high school junior, imagine if you left your entire life, all your belongings and so many of your hopes behind in New Orleans.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And your name is?
SHERMAN: Lauren.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Lauren. CARROLL: This is St. Benedict's, 400 miles away from Lauren's high school.
SHERMAN: I'm, like, fine with it. You know, just not being with everyone, but I mean, it's the same, junior year is like your prom year, you know?
CARROLL: Like Lauren, Greg Johnson is also 16. When Katrina hit, Greg and his mom just got in the car and drove away from their home in New Orleans' still-submerged 9th Ward. They now live in a shelter here in Memphis. This is Greg's fifth day Bishop Byrne (ph) High School.
GREG JOHNSON, STUDENT: It has been real hard. But I'm trying to be strong and get over it and just start my life all over again.
CARROLL: In fact, the U.S. Department of Education estimates 300,000 displaced students will need help starting over again. Most, if not all, emotionally scarred in some way.
JOHNSON: I really don't have nothing left back in New Orleans, at my house. And I just can't seem to get over that every time I think about it.
CARROLL: As for the new schools, how will they manage the new demands? On average it costs a district $8,000 a year to educate a single student. So how will schools offset these added costs? The message is clear and simple, SOS, send help now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We need donations of uniforms. We need donations of textbooks, instructional materials, writing utensils, paper, pens, all of that.
CARROLL: President Bush met with the secretary of education to discuss how the government will help, but neither offered a plan for how to pay for all of this.
MARGARET SPELLINGS, SECRETARY OF EDUCATION: Lets get these kids stabilized. Obviously it's good for them educationally, emotionally. And then we'll worry about the fine print and how to pay for it later.
CARROLL: Students like Greg and Lauren are just trying to fit in.
(on camera): How do you do that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: By being open, being myself.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm using this time to, like, excel in everything, like, you know, try hard (INAUDIBLE), like, extra-hard, and study extra-hard. Just give me a (INAUDIBLE), you know, be better.
CARROLL: There will be more tears. For now, the next class is about to begin.
Jason Carroll, CNN, Memphis, Tennessee.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: (INAUDIBLE) Washington, the president will ask the Congress for another $50 billion. And the Senate Democratic leader thought the bill, the final bill, might approach $100 billion before all is said and done. Some of it's going to pay for (INAUDIBLE) folks in those desks for those kids.
Take a break. When we come back, we'll talk with one of New Orleans's native sons, a prominent one at that. Douglas Brinkley joins us.
We'll take a break first.
This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Just as nature has the power to destroy, my goodness, we've seen that, it also has the power to build and to protect. The devastation caused by Katrina has energized the fight to restore the coastal marshlands along the Gulf of Mexico, marshes that might, underscore might, have lessened the strength and certainly the storm surge before it reached New Orleans. Wouldn't have solved all the problems, might have solved some.
Here's CNN's Daniel Sieberg.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIEL SIEBERG, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): There is simply too much water, not only in the streets of towns and cities along the Gulf Coast, but in the marshlands and swamps that surround them.
You say swamps are supposed to be wet. Well, that's true. But over the three centuries that New Orleans has been here, the swamps of Louisiana have been disappearing, swallowed by the ocean.
MIKE TIDWELL, AUTHOR, "BAYOU FAREWELL": When the French first arrived in New Orleans 300 years ago, there was between New Orleans and the Gulf of Mexico vast hardwood forests, and freshwater marshes and saltwater marshes. There were formidable barrier islands.
If those were all in place today, Katrina would not have hit the way it did.
SIEBERG: Coastal marshes and barrier islands are a natural buffer against hurricanes barrelling ashore. They help take some of the steam out of the storm.
But mankind's tinkering with the Mississippi River is breaking down the natural systems that build the marshes.
Before and after pictures of barrier islands illustrate the problem. This is one of the Chandaleur (ph) Islands off Louisiana four years ago. And this is post-Katrina. The arrows in each picture are pointing to the same area, and you can see how much land is gone.
TIDWELL: The whole coastline is sinking because of the levees of the Mississippi River no longer allow the river to flood, and it's the flooding that deposited sediments and nutrients that built the whole ragged sole of the Louisiana boot to begin with.
SIEBERG: Hurricanes make it worse. This is Dauphin Island, Alabama, four years ago, last year, after Hurricane Ivan, and now, after Katrina.
Wetlands activists want a system built so that levees will allow water and the marsh-building sediment it contains to be guided to the shrinking coastline.
TIDWELL: I believe that it would be actually criminal of us, it would be criminally irresponsible of us as a nation to fix a single broken window in New Orleans, to pick up a single piece of debris, to fix a single square foot of levee without simultaneously committing to a national program to restore the barrier islands and wetlands that once served as a buffer.
SIEBERG: And it's not just the land that's disappearing. The Cajuns and fishermen who live along the coast, their way of life is vanishing along with their homes.
In Katrina's wake, Gulf state officials will be lobbying Washington for money not just to restore cities and towns, but the coastal areas that help protect them.
Daniel Sieberg, CNN, Atlanta.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: The historian Douglas Brinkley has deep ties to New Orleans. He's a professor of history at the University of New Orleans. He evacuated to Houston early on, but he's been back to check on things, do some work, as well as the World War II museum in the city.
It's always good to see Doug, and we welcome him tonight.
The whole idea of rebuilding the city is a -- is the to talk about. But it's to some degree, unless you're going to do the work to protect the city, it's almost pointless.
DOUGLAS BRINKLEY, AUTHOR/HISTORIAN: Well, that was a great piece you just had about the barrier islands. Coastal restoration's been a big issue in Louisiana. And 100 years ago, Theodore Roosevelt, who had, of course, created our national forest and national monuments, went to those barrier islands and said, We've got to keep them, not just for bird rookeries, but to prevent hurricanes that hit the city of New Orleans.
A hundred years later, nothing's been done that T.R. recommended.
Yes, I mean, one of -- New Orleans is a city surrounded by water, it's been called a fishbowl lately. Many great cities in the world are, Venice, Amsterdam. We've got to save New Orleans. We've got to start a rebuilding, but we're going to have to rebuild it with coastal wetlands restored, and with a new system of levees and dikes.
BROWN: You know, it, Doug, it's easy, I don't know if it's easy, but it's easier, to build buildings again. I mean, you take a lot of money and you can build buildings and the French Quarter can be the French Quarter and it's the math.
I wonder if you think that the culture of New Orleans, this most unique of American cities, has been destroyed.
BRINKLEY: No, because culture's in the souls of people, and it's -- it means something to be from New Orleans. I can't tell you how many -- you talk about jazz, it's not just going to a jazz museum or a jazz club. It's in the schools of New Orleans, the people that you see in the Astrodome, or you're seeing in Baton Rouge, they have that spirit, that free expression which jazz is the world's great gift of democracy all over, the concept of the spontaneity and expressing oneself through music.
New Orleans is one of the most-loved cities in the world. It's not really even an American city. It's an international heritage site. And that energy of those people and that soulfulness of those human beings are around, and they're going to stay in New Orleans.
And on a purely architectural note, the French Quarter's in pretty good shape. So are the historic homes up St. Charles and what's known as uptown, or Audubon Park, Tulane University, area. So some of it, tourism, which is number one industry in town, is intact, what people come to New Orleans to see.
What's been destroyed, and what, the tragedy of New Orleans, is one of neglect. It's, you know, we, some people call New Orleans the Big Easy. But the other term (INAUDIBLE) the city time forgot. And one of the charms of New Orleans was its Mom and Pop stores and this kind of localism.
And I'm afraid some of that has been taken away. And I hope we -- it doesn't get rebuilt in a strip-mall fast-food franchisey way, because New Orleans has always kept an individual identity as an international port city. And I hope and pray that it'll continue to remain as such.
BROWN: You know, one needs to take conversations this proximate to a tragedy with a grain of salt. But we talked to a number of people who -- some of whom were able to get out because they had the means and the resources to get out, and others who had to be evacuated who talked about they just never want to go back.
You, the soul is something, as you talked about, that exists in people, it doesn't exist in buildings. And if these people don't come home, then New Orleans really isn't New Orleans. I mean, the restaurant may open, but it needs more than that, somehow.
BRINKLEY: Well, and that's why, hopefully, for example, myself, I'm now in Houston. I'm not sure where I'm going to live for the next six months. But eventually, I'm going to go back, because I love the city so much.
When I was there, Aaron, just 24 hours ago, there are about 2,000 New Orleanians that are working on -- working nonstop, taking their own speedboats, rescuing people. I was in boats, they were pulling people out of water. They're trying to deal -- save their city because they love it so much.
And what's odd about a hurricane, you know, (INAUDIBLE), Get out of New Orleans, leave New Orleans. But you may be physically leaving the city, but it's still in your heart.
And I think, you're right, a lot of the people that have left are, a portion will stay in Houston, or they'll move to Los Angeles or Denver. But a lot of people I've talked to are ready to go back when the time's safe and appropriate. It's not now, when the water's up, when we have these possibility of hepatitis and cholera, on and on. It's a poisoned, toxic place. But it'll come back.
And when you study world history, the point of history, Aaron, is to remind us that our own times are not uniquely oppressive. And we've seen a lot of tragedy of America, and in, you just can go to Oklahoma City or Antietam or Gettysburg, and they will always be talked about, like the San Francisco earthquake or Johnstown flood, Hurricane Katrina.
But it's a moment in history. It's a tragic one. But 100, 200 years from now, the musical notes will still be soaring out of Bourbon Street.
BROWN: I hope, as much as anything, that you're right. It's nice to see you. I'm glad your family is safe. I hope you all get through the next six months pretty easily and get back home again.
Doug, it's good to see you.
BRINKLEY: Thanks.
BROWN: Thank you, Douglas Brinkley.
Just ahead, pulling hope from the wreckage of Katrina.
And one woman's story in the Superdome, told with a disposable camera.
We'll take a break first.
From New York, a special edition of NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: No matter where you go, whether it's New Orleans or through Mississippi, parts of Alabama, at some point, what this all comes down to is that people have lost their homes -- not their houses, but their homes. That is a fundamental thread in this story. CNN's Kathleen Koch knows this firsthand. She reports tonight about the small town of Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, which is where she grew up.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KATHLEEN KOCH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bay St. Louis, a small town, my home town, where everyone knows everyone, and nearly everyone has lost everything.
At times, there is an intense feeling of helplessness.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) get the word out, people need water still, a lot of old people on their front porches, they can't get water. The water dropoff is way up at Wal-Mart. It's so hot here.
KOCH: Gradually, even in shelters, people are finding reasons to smile.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trying to dial the numbers and stuff, you know, and we found it, and she goes, Oh, God, I got signal. Man, we ran out to the outside of the building, hit it, and went through. It was, like -- and she was, Oh, it's Bill, it's Bill. I'm, like, Oh, God, we're through, you know.
KOCH: The main transportation artery, the crumbled Bay Bridge, is now the main communication artery, the one place where cell phones occasionally work.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My son's alive!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told you, I told you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I told you.
KOCH: Survivors find inspiration in the rubble, statues of Mary and Jesus throughout town still standing, the stained-glass windows in the church on the beach unbroken, scenes that sustain those whose few possessions include a muddy camera.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don't think the camera works. Somebody told me one time when his hands are open like that, it means, I love you this much.
KOCH: Flags are popping up everywhere, (INAUDIBLE), dirty, pulled from the wreckage. And signs, signs the townspeople aren't giving up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it'll return. It'll take time. We're not done yet.
KOCH: Neither are we, in our search for the loved ones of family, friends, and strangers. Some homes we find standing, others not. From under a piece of sheet metal crawls a wounded dog, someone's pet. We feed him, keep him overnight, and find the only place that will take him, an animal hospital in Biloxi.
Later, we find a shelter where, when no help came, the people here decided to help themselves.
KEVIN SCHROEDER, SHELTER VOLUNTEER: We got set people up in the gym so they could sleep there. It's kind of hot, but, you know, they -- it works for a shelter, keeps a roof over your head.
KOCH: They opened up the elementary school, sought donations of food, used a bus to go pick up ice. It's run by a group of young people, including a 9-year-old girl named Hope.
Hope is alive in Bay St. Louis.
Kathleen Koch, CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Trip home.
Just ahead, the inside story, four days in the dark in the Superdome.
Take a break first.
And as we do, how you can help. One of the ways you can help, the Red Cross. There are many others as well. All need your assistance. This is an American tragedy.
We'll take a break first.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: The Superdome in New Orleans may now be so badly damaged, it'll have to be torn down. But the image of the Superdome has been changed forever, to be sure.
CNN correspondent Deborah Feyerick found Saundra Reed awhile ago. Ms. Reid spent four days at the Superdome. She was with her son and her two grandchildren. And she gave us three disposable cameras, cameras filled with pictures she took as she tried to escape the waters.
These are her pictures, and this is her story.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SAUNDRA REED, NEW ORLEANS SURVIVOR: I took the pictures that I saw in front of my home at 8236 Apricot Street, all the way to the Superdome.
I took pictures of people stranded in their home. They have the elderly beg enough to pick them up to take them with us. And I know they still have people in their homes. DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How'd you find the boat?
REED: When I (INAUDIBLE). They had their boats locked up, and we just -- we had to get out of there, because the water started coming into the house.
We decided to go to the Superdome. My grandchildren have no water, no nothing, anything. And they kept on saying, Mama, I'm thirsty, I'm thirsty. I said, Just go to sleep. They had a lady next to me, she just gave me bottles of water for the kids.
When it get dark in here, it was dark, pitch black. You couldn't see anything. They did everything, they terrorized you. You couldn't sleep at night. You had to keep the children with you to keep them safe, because they were saying that children were being raped, people was being killed.
They put us up in here with murderers, criminals. How could they do that to us? They couldn't even protect us.
FEYERICK: Who were these guys who were doing this?
REED: Young guys. They was very young adults doing this. I never thought that we were being (INAUDIBLE) situation. And I told my son, I said, Go out and bring us (INAUDIBLE). But we went through worst, you know, but not like this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Secretary of Homeland Security told members of the House of Representatives tonight that the conditions at the Superdome weren't as bad as media had been reporting.
Morning papers after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: OK, time to check the morning papers from around the country and around the world.
I'll start with "The Washington Post." We haven't had much time for this, so we'll have a little more time tonight.
"Washington Post," "Katrina Takes Environmental Toll. Warning Issued on Water." That's the E. coli we told you about earlier. "Federal Probes on Relief Loom."
I'm not sure where the country, you know, it's hard for me to tell, because e-mail is a weird subsect of the population that I get, how interested people are in knowing who screwed up, if anyone's people screwed up, believe me, if people are interested in knowing all of the detail of that, I am.
Also on the front page, "For Chief Justice, a Final Return to His Court." Justice Rehnquist, story that really has gotten one very little attention. And down at the bottom here, OK, if I owned a newspaper, I'd put this the front page. "'Gilligan's Island' Star Dies at 70." That's Bob Denver, little buddy, you betcha. But if you're my age, you remember him as Maynard G. Krebs, right, from "Dobie Gillis." I wonder if Duane Hickman's (ph) still alive. Was that his name?
"New Orleans Starts Slow Drain," "The Washington Times." Those guys didn't have great careers. "Mayor Predicts Awful Sight Beneath the Flood."
Also on the front page, kind of an interesting placement, I thought, "GOP Begins Damage Control" on the flooding.
Let's see what, how the Republicans handle the political fallout, if there is.
"Bush Takes Reins of Inquiry. President Seeks Record-Setting $40 Billion for Relief and Cleanup." This is "The Oregonian" out in Portland, Oregon. They also sent a reporter with an Oregon National Guard unit. "Tense Night Run to Armory Plunges Oregon MP Unit into the Unknown." That's a good way to localize the story.
Also, some evacuees, refugees, (INAUDIBLE) calling them, going to end up out in Portland or in Oregon.
"The Dallas Morning News," "'It's Going to Be Awful,' Mayor Warns the Nation. But Rays of Light Emerge as Floodwaters Ebb."
"$40 Billion More" is the way "The Rocky Mountain News" out in Denver, Colorado, headlines a story. "Second Wave of Funding at Top of D.C. Priority List. Mayor Sees Rays of Light as Water Recedes."
"The Plattsville Journal" in Wisconsin has its own front-page story, thank you very much, "Plattsville Native to Wed Desperate Housewife." Tom Mahoney is going to marry Marcia Cross. Hey, it's news there, and it counts.
The weather in Chicago tomorrow, "Touch of gray." I understand that.
Our coverage of the hurricane continues throughout the night here on CNN. We'll wrap up our small portion of it in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Red Cross is just one of many agencies who are taking donations, and in need of donations. If you'd like to help, that's a good place to start. There are others, and our Web site has a long list of them.
Our live coverage of this hurricane continues now with Catherine Callaway in Atlanta.
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