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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
New Orleans Police Accused of Looting; Interview With Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington
Aired September 29, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone.
Anderson is in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi, tonight.
When Hurricane Katrina struck exactly 30 days ago, it nearly wiped Bay St. Louis off the map -- Anderson.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it certainly did, Aaron, Bay St. Louis, also Waveland. We're basically right on the border.
You can look behind me. I mean, the devastation is still just all around 30 days on. This is the first day we have come back here. You kind of think, well, maybe a lot of the stuff had been picked up. It hasn't. People's possessions are still laying all around. They're waiting for insurance adjusters to come. They've taken pictures. They've filled out the forms. And now they are waiting for some relief, Aaron.
BROWN: It's unbelievable, actually, that people are still waiting to do the paperwork of all of this. We will get right back to you.
First, a quick look at where things stand in the Gulf tonight.
Thirty days after Katrina devastated the region, 1,130 deaths are now blamed on the storm, nearly 900 in the state of Louisiana, 200 in Mississippi.
Lawmakers in Mississippi will consider a new law allowing the state's multibillion-dollar casino industry to rebuild on dry land. All 13 of the state's casinos were floating and were destroyed by Katrina's enormous storm surge.
In New Orleans, business owners in eight zip codes began returning today under a new plan to allow people back into the city. Tomorrow, residents in those same zip codes will be allowed to return as well.
And a note about the company whose bus caught fire last week, killing 24 nursing home patients who were fleeing Hurricane Rita. State records show the company was the subject of complaints by three people in 2002. They said the buses wreaked of fuel and were in disrepair. Investigators have said the fire could have been caused by mechanical problems, possibly within the brakes.
The National Transportation Board is investigating the cause of that crash. As of today, at least two lawsuits have been filed against the bus company.
Hurricanes Rita and Katrina have set off lots of investigations, it seems, most of them looking at the performance of people who were supposed to keep others safe from the storm, people including the police. Cops in New Orleans have taken a serious bruising from Katrina, the accusations including everything from desertion to looting.
CNN's Drew Griffin has been looking into them.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): For a week the New Orleans Police Department called allegations of looting by its officers a misunderstanding. Now the new acting superintendent calls it an active investigation.
WARREN RILEY, ACTING NEW ORLEANS POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: That I have ordered an immediate internal investigation by the department's Public Integrity Bureau, which will focus on at least 12 police officers who are being accused of misconduct.
GRIFFIN: Four officers have been suspended. One has been reassigned. And interim chief Warren Riley insisted all allegations will be thoroughly checked.
RILEY: I want to reaffirm my position that there is zero tolerance for misconduct or unprofessionalism by any member of this department.
GRIFFIN: Among the allegations under investigation, claims that eight officers holed up on the 10th floor of this Canal Street hotel were drinking and eating by day and looting by night. Police confirmed this is one of their officers caught on tape, holding a gun as he appears to be blocking a photographer from entering the 10th floor through this door.
This generator is one of the items at the hotel that witnesses say was stolen by police.
(on camera): And they stole this from a hospital?
OSMAN KHAN, HOTEL MANAGER: They stole it from Tulane Hospital, correct.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Hotel manager Osman Khan says the generator was stolen from Tulane Hospital and used by officers, he says, to keep beer cold. Tulane Hospital confirms the generator is owned by Tulane and during the hurricane's aftermath was being used to evacuate patients.
(on camera): Those evacuations were taking place on this parking deck. The generator was being used to light up the deck to keep the communications, the radios going, so they could communicate with the helicopters. Tulane was finished with its evacuations, but left the generator and all the communications and gas in place, so that Charity Hospital could continue its evacuations. That is when the generator, now down there on the second floor of this hotel, was looted.
GEORGE JAMISON, TULANE HOSPITAL: It was left on the parking deck specifically fueled up with fuel for Charity Hospital, because we thought they still had people. And we thought that they were going to continue with an exercise to evacuate them.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): Tulane security officer George Jamison says he has no proof the taking of the generator cost any lives or even inconvenience. But as for who took it and why:
(on camera): ... Jamison, would it surprise you to know that it was taken by officers of the New Orleans Police to cool their beer?
JAMISON: Well, since I'm not running for political office, I can say no, it wouldn't surprise me.
GRIFFIN (voice-over): In addition to the looting allegations, in the last few days, Police Chief Eddie Compass suddenly resigned and another investigation was launched into why or if 249 police officers deserted their posts. The new chief said this when asked if his department is too dysfunctional or disorganized to keep the city safe.
RILEY: No. First of all, this department is not dysfunctional. The more than 2,000 men and women of this agency stand united in not letting a very small segment of members tarnish the great reputation of this department.
GRIFFIN: The truth is, the New Orleans P.D. has a reputation, but not a good one. Two of its former officers are on death row. There have been multiple investigations of corruption. Atlanta Police Chief Richard Pennington tried to clean up the New Orleans Police Department when he was chief in this city from 1994 until 2002. Today, he, too, says he's not surprised New Orleans police officers are under investigation.
RICHARD PENNINGTON, ATLANTA POLICE CHIEF: I, you know, was involved in arresting many officers in that department during my tenure. And I know for a fact I probably did not get all the officers that were corrupt. And so, I wasn't surprised at all when I heard it.
GRIFFIN: Pennington says the question now, is the New Orleans Police Department capable of investigating itself, while also trying to recover from the worst disaster in the city's history? The city's newest chief of police says, wait and see for yourself.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GRIFFIN: How long will we have to wait and see? Aaron, that new police chief of New Orleans wouldn't even venture to guess when all these investigations will be over -- Aaron.
BROWN: Do we know who the four suspended officers are? And do they -- if we do, do they include the fellow we see in the tape closing the door with the gun in his hand?
GRIFFIN: The chief would not confirm any details on who, what or where those four people were suspended or whether one officer was reassigned and wouldn't really confirm many details at all today and wouldn't also, Aaron, take any questions on why Eddie Compass resigned.
BROWN: Let's set the Compass thing aside for a second.
So, we don't even know -- we don't know for sure that any of the suspended officers included the officers who were in the hotel; is that correct?
GRIFFIN: That is correct. There's apparently multiple locations where potential or possible looting took place. There's a Wal-Mart. There's a Cadillac dealer. There's the Amerihost Suites. We know that investigations are under way in all three locations. But, as for specifics of who has been suspended, we do not know.
BROWN: Nice work on this story, my friend. Thank you, Drew Griffin, in New Orleans.
Richard Pennington, who's now the Atlanta police chief and who you just heard from in Drew's piece, joins us from Atlanta tonight.
I was actually a little surprised that you said out loud that you weren't surprised that these allegations have been made. What is it about that police department? Is there something systemic about the police department that allows corruption to flourish?
PENNINGTON: Well, I think that the corruption has been systemic for many, many years.
When I took over in 1994, it was a very tumultuous time in that organization. And I remember, my first year in the New Orleans Police Department, I probably got rid of about 38 officers, including seven recruits that were in the academy that had various criminal violations and other things against them.
The hiring standards had to be changed. But I think that it's still a good department. You have many good men and women in that organization. And I'm really proud to see that Chief Warren Riley is going to take over, because I know that he'll move swiftly to act against those officers who've been alleged of looting. And I think that that's what you have to do as a police chief. You have to be very forceful, take control, and show the public that you're not going to tolerate corruption in that organization.
BROWN: No matter how you slice this and dice this, I mean, the looting is an unpleasant accusation.
But, if -- in some respects, what is more distressing for an outsider looking at the department is that 15 percent of the officers didn't show up to do their jobs at all. Does that surprise you?
PENNINGTON: Well, I was really surprised at that.
I don't think there's ever been a police department in these United States where this has occurred. I was really, really surprised to know that that many officers either were unaccounted for or walked off the job. And so, I'm hoping that they will be investigated as well. We should never have officers to leave our posts, especially during a time of crisis, when you have citizens out there abandoned, need help.
And so, I'm hoping that the chief will really look into that and take actions against those officers that left their posts without a valid reason.
BROWN: Chief, let me ask you one more thing. Does the New Orleans Police Department have the internal mechanisms to fairly, objectively investigate itself, or does it need to be done, given the scope, by outsiders?
PENNINGTON: No, I think it can be done. When I left -- and I have only been gone three years -- we had an outstanding, aggressive public integrity unit in place. And when I formed that unit, I formed it with the assistance of the FBI.
I had three FBI agents assigned to that unit that I created to root out corruption. There were 100 police officers that we knew at the time that were corrupt or there were some forms of allegations of corruption being performed by those officers. So, I know it can be done. They still have some capable investigators in place. And I know that the resources that they have, they can go out and do a good job in terms of rooting out corruption. It's systemic.
I didn't get all the corrupt officers while -- during my tenure as chief. And so, there were many officers that we had targeted that we never really ended up getting rid of. And so, I know Chief Riley. He will continue to do a fine job in terms of rooting out corruption, because I know the citizens will not expect anything less than that. And so, I'm hopeful. I'm very hopeful that he will continue to do a good job in terms of being aggressive and making sure that that community is policed in an outstanding way.
BROWN: Chief, it must be an interesting position to be looking back on this, given all the years you spent there. We appreciate your time tonight.
PENNINGTON: Thank you.
BROWN: Thank you, Chief Pennington, who is now the police chief in Atlanta.
We say, Anderson, whenever we do this story, perhaps a little self-consciously, but we say, you know, we need to remind you that, by and large, the men and women of the department performed heroically, admirably. They lost a lot. They live in town. Their lives were messed up as well. But 15 percent of the force didn't show up. And a handful, maybe a dozen, were out committing crimes. And that's no small thing either.
COOPER: Yes.
And the other officers, who I have spent a lot of time with over the last couple weeks, they'll be the first ones to say, look, if they were crooked cops, they want them exposed, they want them out. And if crimes were committed while people were wearing a badge, they want those badges removed and given to cops who are decent. So, there's a lot of desire for change in just about all quarters in New Orleans.
You know, Aaron, just four miles from where I'm standing here in Bay St. Louis, as the crow files -- flies, I should say -- or files along, I guess -- is the town of Waveland. We were there just days after Katrina hit, 48 hours, actually. And it would be hard to overestimate the damage we saw back then. I mean, Waveland was virtually wiped out. Today, we went back and it didn't look that different.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER (voice-over): One month after Hurricane Katrina swept away Waveland, much of the town remains the same. There's miles and miles of debris, broken dreams, and splintered homes. Amidst the rubble you find American flags still flying, a bathroom sink, a Partridge Family album. We've Got to Get Out of This Place, the first track.
(on camera): I remember helping a woman pull this chair out of the ditch which was here. She was coming back to her house for first time. And she was just completely overwhelmed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's my chair.
COOPER (voice-over): Her name was Pauline Conaway (ph), and I'll never forget her pain. Her home was gone; only a few possessions remained. It was the first time I'd seen someone so distraught and not been able to do anything about it.
(on camera): You find just about any block you go down here in Waveland, especially along the beach, I mean, people are just coming back, one by one, finding the homes just completely gone. And it's -- it's devastating.
I mean -- actually, let's...
(voice-over): Today, we found no sign of Pauline, but the chair and the grill and the ceramic bear are all still where she left them.
(on camera): Some people, they come back to their homes and they just get overwhelmed. They think they are going to pick up things, but maybe they find a few plates or whatever, but then they -- they just decide to leave everything where it is.
(voice-over): A month ago in Waveland we also met Myrtle Kierney (ph) and her family. Her sense of humor I'll never forget.
(on camera): You vacuumed my house?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I vacuumed my house to the moon so that when we came back we would have a pleasant environment to come back in. COOPER (voice-over): At the home of the Kierneys (ph) today, we found work crews cleaning up the streets. Their property, however, is still littered with debris.
(on camera): I'll never forget Myrtle (ph) told me that she collected rocks, and right before the storm, right before she evacuated, that she went around her home and hid all the rocks. I'm not exactly sure why she did that, but she did.
And that's one of the things she was looking for when I met her here a month ago. And we just came back and noticed this must be from her rock collection. I'll have to call them and let them know Myrtle's (ph) rocks have shown up.
(voice-over): Everywhere we went today in Waveland people talked to us, glad to see we were back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I was in Guadalajara when this hit. And I knew I could count on you, because you said your dad was from there and you grew up in New Orleans. And I want to thank you for all the hard work all of you are all doing.
COOPER (on camera): How are you doing now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine until I start talking to people.
COOPER (voice-over): One month has already passed, but in Waveland the emotions have not. The memories of what happened here are simply too painful to forget.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: One of the things, Aaron, I have noticed in Waveland is, everyone says they're fine until they start talking about it. And then, I mean, the emotions just well up very, very quickly. And it's -- you know, it's on every block. It's everywhere you go here, Aaron.
BROWN: It's strange, isn't it?
I mean, in one sense, if you go day by day, a month seems like a long time. But, in other respects, a month -- it doesn't feel like we have really been doing this for a month. I mean, in very -- in lots of ways, it seems like a couple of days or a week ago. And for people caught in the middle of it, a month isn't very long at all when it's measured against a lifetime in a community.
Anyway, we will have more from...
COOPER: Yes.
BROWN: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
COOPER: No, I was just going to say, I mean, in the calendar of sorrow, a month is a blink of the eye.
BROWN: Yes.
COOPER: The depth of pain here is extensive and will continue for a long time.
BROWN: I think that's a great way to put it. In the calendar of sorrow. And that's exactly what people are looking at, a lifetime change.
Coming up on the program tonight, the town that would close its doors to the displaced.
But, first, at about a quarter past the hour, give or take, time for some of the other news of the day. In fact, it's been a huge news day.
And Erica Hill is here to tell us about it.
Ms. Hill.
ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It absolutely has, Mr. Brown.
And, actually, we start off with a story we have been covering for some time. Judith Miller, "The New York Times" reporter who was imprisoned for refusing to disclose a source, is free tonight. Miller has agreed to testify regarding the leak of a CIA agent's identity, saying her source has now waived her promise of confidentiality. And the "Times" is reporting Miller's source is none other than Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, Scooter Libby.
John Roberts sworn in today as the 17th chief justice of the United States. He took the oath of office at the White House less than four hours after the Senate voted to confirm the 50-year-old judge.
Meantime, in Iraq today, a string of car bombs in the city of Balad left more than 60 dead and more than 70 wounded. This and other targeted attacks across the country follow a roadside bombing that killed five more U.S. troops yesterday. Officials expect continued insurgent violence in the run-up to the constitutional referendum next month.
And the Senate wants to budget $4 billion for a supply of bird flu vaccine. The virus has killed about 60 people in Asia and Europe and led to the slaughter of millions of birds. Lawmakers voted to attach the allocation to next year's defense spending bill.
And that's all we got for you now, Aaron, but we will have a little more in the way of news later in the show.
BROWN: About a half-hour later in the program.
HILL: Give or take.
(LAUGHTER)
BROWN: Yes. Well, we will try and time it right, too. Thank you very much.
We have much more on the program tonight, starting with the refugees from Katrina, and four words, not in my backyard.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have been thrown out here, you know, and we feel like they don't want us here.
BROWN (voice-over): A town rolls out the unwelcome mat. Is it just a question of too many people or is it something else?
From Texas tonight, an SOS goes out over the Internet.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Isn't that amazing? You put out a broken arrow and everybody and the pope shows up.
BROWN: Two thousand stranded refugees, one cry for help answered.
REP. JAY INSLEE (D), WASHINGTON: We could actually send people on six-month cruises for the half the price that we are paying to actually have people sit at the dock.
BROWN: It used to be a fun ship. Now it's a FEMA scandal. And you're paying for it.
And later, did money and power trump need? People dying for a new liver, while others allegedly jump to the head of the line.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the hardest part was watching my parents cry and watching my son, knowing that I may not see him grow up.
BROWN: From New York and the Gulf and Los Angeles, too, this is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: You're watching a special edition of NEWSNIGHT, "State of Emergency," with Aaron Brown and Anderson Cooper.
COOPER: Welcome back.
We are live in Bay St. Louis, Mississippi.
You've probably seen pictures of people picking through the debris of their house. And we have been seeing that all day here in Waveland and in Bay St. Louis. But just to give you a sense of how difficult it is, for some, it's just too simply overwhelming. Take a look. I mean, what would you try to pick up in this debris field? This is debris from one person's home.
And, you know, you wander around and not only is it very hazardous, because there are all these nails sticking up, but where do you begin to try to pick up things? I mean, these are all the, you know, wooden slabs from the sides of houses. You can kind of -- OK, you can sort of maybe salvage this.
But how do you -- I mean, we're probably -- 15 or 20 feet off the ground is just this pile of wood. And I just -- when I pulled up this cooler, I saw this in, a little child's toy. It looks like something you'd find in like a cereal box.
But, I mean, how do you even begin to try to find anything that you can salvage in something like this? Bulldozers are just going to have to come and dump it all away, whatever was in this pile, whatever possessions. And there are still some 50 or so people missing here in Waveland who they believe might be out there still in debris piles. Those people will be found, as the debris is just lifted up and put into trucks and taken away. And that's what's happening. That's what we're seeing on the streets now, huge bulldozers just coming, picking all of this up and dumping it into trucks and taking it away.
This is not the kind of debris you can actually go through and find anything that belongs to you -- Aaron.
BROWN: I suspect everyone has at one point or another in the last month thought about what they would take if they had to flee like that.
COOPER: Yes.
BROWN: This next story deals with two impulses, one humane and the other perhaps all too human. It's playing out in a town that welcomed evacuees from Katrina in the beginning, but now says enough is enough. Compassion fatigue? That and a lack of resources. That's one take. It is not, however, the only take.
Reporting for us tonight in Greensburg, Louisiana, here's CNN's Ted Rowlands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sign says "Welcome to Greensburg," but some hurricane victims say they don't feel welcome at all.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I can understand, because they're not used to this. But we're not used to it either. So, I don't want to be here, you know, just as much as they don't want us here.
ROWLANDS: Greensburg, Louisiana, is about 80 miles northwest of New Orleans, a small town divided over a possible FEMA plan to bring in trailers for hurricane victims. The city has supported victims since the storm. But the thought of bringing in trailers and possibly more people has divided the town.
At the Greensburg Market, everyone we talked to knew about the debate and had an opinion. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think we have the facilities here for no more than what's here. It would be -- it would be hectic, no doubt.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we need to do what we can to help the New Orleans people, I mean, because they can't help themselves right now.
ROWLANDS: With a population of less than 1,000, Greensburg is about 33 percent African-American, 66 percent white. Some people think this debate is about race.
JAMES ODEN, PASTOR, NEW HOPE MINISTRY: It's now beginning to surface. That's really coming out as a result of what has transpired here lately, which it shouldn't be. We are all tied together in one single thread of destiny, and we have got to learn how to come together and work together.
ROWLANDS: People we have talked to say they don't know of any specific incidents of hostility, but, during a heated town meeting, some residents said they didn't want evacuees from New Orleans, because some might be rapists or murderers.
Brad Graves, who is the county director of emergency preparedness, says he was surprised over some of the things he heard at the meeting. He thinks a rumor that FEMA wanted to bring in 25,000 hurricane victims whipped some people into a frenzy.
BRAD GRAVES, DIRECTOR OF EMERGENCY PREPAREDNESS, ST. HELENA: It's a concern that this is going to cause racial diversity. But it's -- I don't think that's going to happen. I think, once everybody gets the correct information and understands what's going on, that everything's going to be OK.
ROWLANDS: Graves says the correct information is that FEMA hasn't decided anything and Greensburg may not get any trailers at all. Meanwhile, some evacuees, like this woman, who even has a job in Greensburg, are worried that they may never be accepted.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's very frustrating, because not all of us are like that, you know? And we have been thrown out here, you know? And we feel like they don't want us here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROWLANDS: We want to emphasize that Greensburg has opened its arms to many evacuees since the hurricane.
People we talked to today, of those, nobody said they didn't want people there for any racial reasons or any prejudice. The main concern was, we just don't have enough space. One thing to note is that, if FEMA does come in there and find some land, there's really nothing the town can do about it if they think it's going to work out fine.
And a lot of people are hoping that this does happen. They want the evacuees there. I do think this will play out in many other communities, though, in this region in the weeks and months to come -- Aaron.
BROWN: Almost -- almost certainly.
Ted, thank you for your work today.
Just ahead, why is FEMA -- I love this -- paying twice as much to house hurricane victims on a cruise ship in port than you'd pay for a real-life cruise? Well, actually, you are paying for it. That's the beauty of this one.
And, later, the fire lines of California, the flames kicking up. It's fire season now. What's next?
This is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Thirty days after Katrina and five days after Rita you'd think that most places in these storms' wake would be getting some kind of relief by now, some sort. But there are still pockets of distress.
CNN's Randi Kaye was in one today in Texas. No food, no water. The only thing they had was a cell phone signal.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): We are on the start of what will be a three-hour journey. CNN received an alarming message. Call it an Internet SOS. They need help in a remote area of Texas, San Augustine County.
(on camera) We started out in Cameron, Louisiana, made a right at Beaumont, picked up Highway 69, then 96 all the way to San Augustine. We should be there in just a minute. See what we find.
(voice-over) The e-mail says 2,000 evacuees from Hurricane Rita are stranded and starving.
(on camera) This group is supposedly camped out at El Pinones Estates at Lake Sam Rayburn. They've been there for a week. They're running out of supplies. And they haven't had any federal help at all.
(voice-over) The e-mail directs us to look for Mike McQueen. He's the man who sent out the SOS.
(on camera) Where can I find this Marine, Mike McQueen?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the second street over, turn left. It will be on your right.
KAYE: OK. So that way down there?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you'll see a sign on his gate.
KAYE: It says "McQueen"?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
KAYE (voice-over): Sure enough, McQueen is in his front yard.
(on camera) You sound pretty darn frustrated with...
MIKE MCQUEEN, CALLED FOR HELP: No, ma'am, I'm pissed as hell.
KAYE (voice-over): angry because he thinks this corner of Texas has been forgotten, if not abandoned.
MCQUEEN: When an old lady comes up and you have to estimate her in her 80s and she says, "I need the Albuterol inhalers because my oxygen tank won't work and I've been going through about one a day." Because she doesn't have electricity and she's staggering like a drunk and you've got to take her inside and put ice packs on her, how bad do you think it is?
KAYE: McQueen is a former Marine. He fled his home 100 miles away and came here. But he didn't escape the hurricane. No food no, water for a week. He climbed this tree to get a cell phone signal and call a friend, a retired New York City policeman, who sent the Internet SOS.
This place is especially at risk because of who lives here most of the year. San Augustine is popular with snowbirds and retirees. Elderly left without food, water medicine. And the gasoline to get supplies for some reason dropped more than an hour away.
MCQUEEN: Isn't that amazing? You put/out a broken arrow and everybody and the pope shows up.
KAYE: McQueen is thrilled. His cell phone to Internet SOS worked. In fact, he says, he hopes President Bush is listening. He says the president's plan to respond to the so-called Golden Triangle communities closer to the water completely overlooked this community.
MCQUEEN: I'd take him and I'd show him all this, and then I'd kick him right square in the butt and we'd sit down and drink a beer. And I would explain to him that these people are out here eating tree bark while everything that he's got pre-staged is ready to go into the Golden Triangle and not coming in to these people.
KAYE: What infuriates McQueen is the government, he says, trying to have it both ways, telling evacuees stay where you are but not getting them vital supplies and medicine. McQueen's neighbor, a diabetic, passed out. He's now borrowing insulin from a friend.
About an hour after we arrive with our cameras, so does the Red Cross. Is it a coincidence? Or did they get the same Internet SOS?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How'd you do this so quick? I just talked to you an hour ago and now you've got the Red Cross out here. KAYE (on camera): Is this the first you've seen the Red Cross?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First I've seen the Red Cross.
KAYE: Since the storm?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KAYE (voice-over): So why did it take the Red Cross so long to get here?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've been up in Lufkin for three days without any food or any water. First we didn't have any trucks. Yes, it's just logistics, I guess.
KAYE: But people here wonder how it is their community got so completely overlooked in the planning for the second hurricane and why it may have taken an Internet SOS to get them help.
Randi Kaye, CNN, San Augustine County, Texas.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Well, you know, it's often these little communities that kind of get lost out in that initial response. We certainly saw that here in Bay St. Louis and Waveland, Mississippi, in those dark terrible days right after Katrina hit.
If we've learned anything out here, we've learned that no matter what people left behind most would go back in a heartbeat if they could. No one likes to be displaced, of course. Life in a shelter is survival, nothing more. That said, shelters come in all shapes and sizes, and not all of them are providing the bare minimum.
CNN's Chris Lawrence checked out one that is making some waves.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS LAWRENCE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You're looking at one of the most expensive cruises money can buy. And you bought it. Your tax dollars fund FEMA, which paid more than $230 million to Carnival Cruise Lines.
FEMA bought out three cruise ships for six months, expecting close to 10,000 evacuees to live on board. There's fewer than 2,000 people still there.
REP. JAY INSLEE (D), WASHINGTON: So it actually costs the taxpayers about $3,500 a week. And you can go on a cruise for $599 a week.
LAWRENCE: Congressman Jay Inslee is one of many officials calling for a chief financial officer to oversee Katrina spending.
INSLEE: So we could actually send people on six-month cruises for half the price that we're paying to actually have people sit at the dock.
LAWRENCE: Before you blame Carnival, consider this -- the price wasn't calculated on a per-cabin basis. It was based on what Carnival would have earned if the ships were kept in regular service: all the money they normally get from casinos, liquor, and shore excursions that are not open to evacuees.
Carnival says, "In the end, the company will make no additional money on this deal versus what we would have made by keeping these ships in service."
We left several messages for FEMA officials and finally went down to the port ourselves.
(on camera) We're doing a story on the FEMA contract. Trying to talk to some evacuees up on the ship.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You won't be able to do that, sir. We'll have to get some authorization from FEMA.
LAWRENCE: We had better luck talking to this family, a New Orleans firefighter living on board with his wife and kids.
DERRICK JONES, NEW ORLEANS FIRE DEPARTMENT: There's a lot of the guys, you know, been there since the storm. We hadn't seen our families. You know, we had no whereabouts where our family was.
LAWRENCE: The FEMA contract put families back together. It allowed first responders to go to work and come back to some sort of home. They have free use of the ship, 24-hour meals, and activities for the kids.
JACQUELINE JONES, DERRICK'S WIFE: You know, words cannot express. They really can't. I mean, it is -- it's excellent. I don't know exactly what they paid, but it's worth every dollar. Every dollar.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAWRENCE: Now, to be fair, FEMA signed those contracts early on while thousands of people were still crammed into the Superdome and the convention center. But critics want to know why it didn't negotiate contingency deals before the disaster at what could have been much cheaper prices -- Anderson.
COOPER: Damned if you do, damned if you don't, I suppose. Chris Lawrence, thanks very much.
Still to come, the fire. This time a lot of pictures here of a field of wildfires. Southern California, it is that time of the year. The people caught in a scandal that could cost them their lives.
A transplant program, also tonight. A transplant program is shut down. Doctors fired and patients waiting.
A break first. This is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT from Bay St. Louis and New York and points in between: STATE OF EMERGENCY.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: You're watching a special edition of NEWSNIGHT: STATE OF EMERGENCY with Aaron Brown and Anderson Cooper.
BROWN: In truth, we don't have the slightest idea how a liver transplant works. But we do know how a line works. And going from No. 52 in line to No. 1 in line says something.
For people waiting for a new liver, it ought to mean that the patient either got a whole lot sicker or the potential for finding a matching liver got a whole lot better. What it ought not involve is clout or connections or money.
The scandal surrounding St. Vincent's Medical Center in Los Angeles includes all of those allegations. This is more than a breach of faith. It is a matter of life and death. And not just for the patients at St. Vincent's.
In Los Angeles tonight, CNN's Thelma Gutierrez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Every day Colleen Mawas must fight to stay alive, with a breathing machine and 14 different medications. Colleen's liver is shutting down.
COLLEEN MAWAS, WAITING FOR A LIVER: When I first was diagnosed, my son was 12 years old. I wanted to make it to his graduation. And that was my motivation for living.
GUTIERREZ: She desperately needs a liver transplant.
MAWAS: And they said I would have -- this is in October. I would have one by Christmas.
GUTIERREZ (on camera): That was how long ago?
MAWAS: That was seven years ago.
GUTIERREZ: Seven years you've been waiting.
MAWAS: Seven years I've been waiting.
GUTIERREZ (voice-over): In those seven years Colleen says she's been close to death three times.
MAWAS: I think the hardest part was watching my parents cry and watching my son and knowing that I may not see him grow up.
GUTIERREZ: Colleen is one of more than 17,000 Americans currently on a national organ registry, waiting for a liver transplant. It's a complex system that ranks patients according to need, a system that, for patients, is based on trust. For Colleen and others like her, that trust has been breached. Breached if allegations of favoritism and record falsification within the liver transplant department at St. Vincent's Medical Center in Los Angeles turn out to be true.
GUS VALDESPINO, CEO, ST. VINCENT'S MEDICAL CENTER: We are conducting a very thorough investigation in order to restore the trust and credibility in this program.
GUTIERREZ: The investigation goes back to 2003. A donor liver arrived at St. Vincent's for a Saudi citizen known as Patient A. Oddly, the hospital says that patient was traveling and not available. So the liver is transplanted into Patient B, another Saudi, who's actually 52nd on a regional waiting list. According to the hospital, the medical records were then falsified to cover it up.
VALDESPINO: The first thing that went through my mind is shock and sadness.
GUTIERREZ: St. Vincent's CEO, Gus Valdespino, recently closed the department, sending 75 patients scrambling for a new transplant center, and said the responsibility lay with the men who ran it, Dr. Hector Ramos and Dr. Richard Lopez, seen here on the hospital's web site.
VALDESPINO: Dr. Ramos and Dr. Lopez both were part of making the decision to transplant Patient B. And knowingly circumvented UNOS policy.
GUTIERREZ: Valdespino says according to UNOS, the federal agency that oversees organ procurement, if Patient A wasn't available the liver should have gone to a dying patient at another hospital. Dr. Richard Lopez could not be reached for comment.
But Evelina Serafini, attorney for Dr. Ramos, says her client was trying to do the right thing.
EVELINA SERAFINI, DR. HECTOR RAMOS' ATTORNEY: Dr. Ramos had a patient who was very sick and dying and believed that he was dying and would die at the time.
He maintains that he's done nothing wrong either in transplanting the man or -- and had nothing to do whatsoever with any falsification of records.
GUTIERREZ: Neither the hospital nor UNOS will reveal the identity of Patient B. But the hospital says the Saudi royal embassy paid $339,000 for the transplant, some 30 percent more than an American citizen with insurance, but not unusual for a foreign national.
VALDESPINO: The hospital has no indication that there was motivation to pass -- to go to this patient for monetary reasons.
GUTIERREZ: We checked with the Saudi royal embassy. A spokesman there said medical bills for any Saudi citizen brought to this country for treatment are paid by the embassy. But the embassy is still trying to figure out who these patients are.
Colleen says whatever the reason passing over people on the list is unethical. But she says this incident has rocked the confidence of some transplant patients in her support group.
MAWAS: Tell them, you know, when your time's come, it -- you know the system will work for you. If you're next -- if you're the sickest, you'll get the next organ. And now, you know, we all feel like we've been deceived.
GUTIERREZ: Colleen says she hopes this is an isolated case and that someday she'll get her liver. After all, she's already seen her son graduate high school.
Thelma Gutierrez, CNN, Los Angeles.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still ahead on the program tonight, the other headline out of Southern California tonight. Fire. Acres and acres of wildfires burning. We'll update that. Much more ahead. Take a break first. This is a special edition of NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Too much water in one part of the country. Not enough in another. Still to come tonight, fires burning outside of Los Angeles. We'll have a live report there.
But first, at about a quarter to the hour, time once again for some of the other stories that made news today. Erica Hill again in Atlanta -- Erica.
ERICA HILL, ANCHOR, HEADLINE NEWS: Hi, Aaron.
And starting off, despite widespread condemnation of his provocative racial comments, we're learning that Bill Bennett is saying tonight he has nothing to apologize for. And if you're wondering what this comes on the heels on, it comes after Bennett, a Republican with ties to both the Reagan and the first Bush administrations, said that aborting every black baby in the country would reduce the crime rate.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL BENNETT, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I was putting forward a hypothetical proposition. Put that forward, examined it, and then said about it that it's morally reprehensible; to recommend abortion of an entire group of people in order to lower your crime rate is morally reprehensible. But this is what happens when you argue that the ends can justify the means.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HILL: And as you heard, he said that act would be morally reprehensible. Children who are taking a drug for attention deficit and hyperactivity may suffer suicidal tendencies. The FDA has sent a warning to doctors about reports linking the drug Stratera and suicidal thoughts. Drug maker Ely Lilly said it would add a warning to the drug's label.
And it turns out wild gorillas just as handy as their chimpanzee cousins. Biologists have seen now the great apes using sticks and other simple tools in their natural habitat. Scientists had previously thought they only picked up those skills in captivity, Aaron.
BROWN: Well, that's good. Now I know I've got somebody else to hire to do some stuff around the house.
HILL: Send them my way after you're done with them.
BROWN: Thank you very much. We'll talk to you tomorrow.
Still to come, Mother Nature not appeased. If it's not hurricanes, it's something else. This time it's southern California fires. Probably locusts next. We'll take a break. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Wildfires are to the West Coast what hurricanes are to the Gulf Coast.
Tonight a fast-moving wildfire northwest of Los Angeles is threatening dozens of homes. It began yesterday. It's nearly destroyed 17,000 acres and six buildings, including one home. Hundreds of people in its path have been forced to flee so far, a decision that certainly does not come easily.
Here's CNN's Rusty Dornin.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUSTY DORNIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The fire above Patty Leonard's house is just over the ridge, about 400 yards away. The winds have shifted. No one quite knows where the fire is going now.
(on camera) You can see the flame coming over that ridge. I mean, if the wind shifts, are you going to leave?
PATTY LEONARD, RESIDENT: No. It would have to come much closer.
DORNIN (voice-over): It's too close for many residents here, who have already fled the neighborhood. L.A. firefighter Ken Coneval (ph) fought fire all night protecting other people's homes. Now it's getting close to his.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So right now it's blowing the fire to us, instead of away, which is a bad thing. DORNIN (on camera): Are you planning on leaving?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. No. Not at all.
DORNIN (voice-over): Bravado? Maybe. But it's also plenty of experience around southern California wild land fires.
(on camera) Some residents here describe it like a dance. The fires don't come every year, but the decision to evacuate doesn't come from the fire department. For them it comes from their gut.
(voice-over) It's a waiting game.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: At the last minute you just -- you know when you have to go. And so far that hasn't happened. We're still here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's much darker over there now.
DORNIN: Less than an hour later again the wind shifts, the sky blackens. And now people here begin to change their minds about what's safe.
(on camera) You and I were talking earlier and you were not concerned about leaving.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
DORNIN: What about now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now it's getting to the point where it's a wind-driven fire, and the fire is generating its own wind.
DORNIN (voice-over): We can feel the heat of the fire now. It's about 200 yards away. Down the hill we're about to talk to evacuee John McLaughlin when the fire trucks race up with a warning.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to blow up.
DORNIN: And we're told we have to make a decision.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys need to either hunker down in place or leave now.
DORNIN: A decision from the gut. One that could be a life saver.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DORNIN: The decision that people in the neighborhood we are in now made about an hour ago, on the ridge behind us there were flames roaring 50 -- 40, 50 feet high. As you can see, now that's died back. Typical wild land fire behavior. It flares up and then dies down.
The difference being the residents in this neighborhood have only been here for about a year and a half. These are million-dollar homes. They are not familiar with the behavior of the fire. They became frightened very quickly and decided to evacuate tonight. So the neighborhood we're in now is pretty much empty.
But Anderson, the amazing thing is still only one home has been destroyed by this fire. At one point there was a ring of fire all around us. It has since backed down.
They say that one of the reasons is the fire is not being pushed by wind, which is usually the case. It is being pushed by the amount of fuels. There are so many -- so many dry shrubs that the fires kick up, create their own wind, but then they die back down, because the winds are just not pushing them -- Anderson.
COOPER: And Rusty, how long is fire season?
DORNIN: Fire season usually lasts from May through -- sometimes through the end of October. And of course, September and October usually very dry here in California, Northern and Southern California. There's no humidity in the air.
What they're hoping for is that the marine layer comes back in, those marine winds from the ocean, and that puts some humidity back in the air, and that really helps the firefighters.
COOPER: All right. Rusty Dornin, thanks.
Coming up in the program tonight, no joking. Chris Rock helping out on hurricane relief. A break first. No joking here, either. This is NEWSNIGHT.
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