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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown

New York Warns of Potential Subway Terror Threat; Karl Rove Prepares to Face Grand Jury Again

Aired October 06, 2005 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone. We begin tonight in a strange, yet strangely familiar place, knowing that something bad might happen, knowing that good people are trying to stop it, not knowing the entire picture. In short, we begin tonight in New York.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Literally in the streets in my case.

The threat concerns the New York subway system behind me, around me, literally beneath our feet here in Times Square.

Let's get you up to date, what's happening right now at this moment. With thousands of people still coming and going, here's what we know. New York's mayor, Bloomberg, Mike Bloomberg, says the FBI has informed him and city officials of a specific threat, in his words, to the subway system, an administration official telling us that the threat involves the use of explosives hidden in baby carriages, to be carried out by a group of 15 to 20 people. The threat has a time frame, but not a specific time frame.

In the coming days was how Police Commissioner Ray Kelly put it earlier today. Now, intelligence from Iraq triggered this alert and, according to our sources, it definitely has led to a raid in Iraq.

There's a lot to cover tonight, a lot going on below the surface tonight in every sense of the word. There are questions, too, about the credibility of the threat, the actual credibility of the information. We will have more on that in a moment.

In the meantime, how the story broke and how it's playing out right now, here's CNN's Deborah Feyerick.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New York City's subways have always been considered a target.

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (R), MAYOR OF NEW YORK: This is the first time that we have had a threat with this level of specificity.

FEYERICK: This was a threat. And it was very specific.

RAYMOND KELLY, NYPD COMMISSIONER: The New York City Police Department and the Federal Bureau of Investigation have received information which indicates that the city's subway system may be the target of a terrorist attack in the coming days.

FEYERICK: There more details than ever before, like the possibility that baby carriages might be used to hide or carry a bomb.

KELLY: Because of the heightened concerns, the police department will be paying particular attention to briefcases, baby strollers, luggage and other containers.

FEYERICK: Some of New York's top politicians said precautions are always a good idea, but that the threat had been overblown.

SEN. CHARLES SCHUMER (D), NEW YORK: I have spoken with people at the highest levels. And, as I understand it, the threat to the New York City subway system was specific, but not corroborated and not of the highest credibility.

FEYERICK: But there is the specter of two successful attacks in Europe.

BLOOMBERG: As we have known since 9/11 and even more so since the Madrid and London attacks, our mass transit system is a potential terrorist target.

FEYERICK: So, police say they will flood the subways and conduct even more bag searches. They're suggesting that the 4.5 million riders who take the subways every day leave their bags and baby carriages at home, warning to be on alert, but not afraid.

BLOOMBERG: Tonight I'm going to take the subway going uptown, and, tomorrow morning, I'm going to do what I always do, get on the train and go to work.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FEYERICK: Now, the threat does not mention any specific subway or any specific subway line. There's no reason to believe that any of the 50 to 20 terrorists are here in New York. There have been no arrests and nobody is in custody -- Anderson.

COOPER: But they've known this information for several days. Why now just today come out with it?

FEYERICK: They decided to hold on to it because, they say, they were in the middle of operations. They didn't want to jeopardize it overseas. So, that's why they kept quiet about it. But, once the operations were done, they felt it was time to alert the city.

COOPER: All right, Deborah Feyerick, thanks. She's been reporting the story all day with us.

Now, here in Times Square is Pat D'Amuro. He's a former FBI assistant director and head of its New York office. He's now a CNN security analyst.

Pat, thanks very much for being with us.

How credible do think this threat seems to be?

PAT D'AMURO, CNN SECURITY ANALYST: Well, we're hearing it's not very credible.

So, I think the reason they put it out is that the information was starting to leak out there. People were becoming a little concerned. I was getting phone calls from individuals in the financial community asking if this threat was real. And I think they decided to go public because of that.

COOPER: But, I mean, if it's not credible, why go public with it? Just damned if you do, damned if you don't?

D'AMURO: Well, the fact that the information was starting to get out to the financial community and other sectors of New York City, that's probably why they wanted to go out with this information.

COOPER: It is a difficult thing, perhaps an impossible thing to fully protect the New York subway station -- the entire system.

D'AMURO: It's difficult. It's very difficult.

COOPER: The key has got to be for people to be vigilant, and not just for police officers.

D'AMURO: Absolutely.

Usually, the first source of information in a situation like that is somebody that is either involved in the plot. The public is very important in notifying law enforcement authorities to anything that they consider suspicious.

COOPER: The fact that this information came from overseas, apparently from Iraq, does that mean it gets more attention or -- or -- or less?

D'AMURO: Well, with everything going on in Iraq right now, they are going to pay close attention to any threat coming out of that arena.

However, it's more difficult to vet that information out because they're in a war zone. It may take a little bit longer. They may be one of the reasons that the federal government felt this was not a viable threat. But because they couldn't resolve it to the satisfaction of New York City, they went public.

COOPER: Would you have any concern about riding the New York City subway?

D'AMURO: I will be on it tomorrow.

COOPER: All right. Me, too. All right, Pat, thanks very much.

D'AMURO: OK.

COOPER: Appreciate it. Aaron, that's the scene here. We will be back from Times Square in just a moment. Let's go back to you in the studio.

BROWN: Thank you.

As we told you, the threat that New York City authorities are reacting to tonight laid out the where and the when, even one option as to the how an attack would be launched. Pretty specific information on that, all authorities are agreed.

But here in New York, officials also called the intelligence credible, a characterization Washington continues to dispute.

CNN's Jeanne Meserve, who covers these matters for us, joins us now.

Jeanne, good evening.

JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Aaron.

The information originated in Iraq, law enforcement sources tells CNN's Kelli Arena, the claim, that plans were under way for an attack against mass transit in the New York metro area using explosives, as you have heard, transported in baby carriages. The claim was that 15 to 20 people were in the U.S. to carry out the attack.

Analysis of the information continues, but one U.S. official describes it as being of doubtful credibility. Another says he's not altogether sure how solid this is. And federal officials seem surprised at New York's decision to make it public.

According to an official with the Department of Homeland Security, this specific intelligence about threats to New York City transit came to them in recent days and was shared promptly with officials in New York. But, according to an administration official, subsequent information collected overseas added doubt to the information's credibility.

And there was no corroboration. And so, this afternoon, as New York announced upgrades in transit security, the Department of Homeland Security said it had no intention of modifying the city's or the nation's terror threat level. And administration officials described New York's actions as being taken out of an abundance of caution.

In 2001 there was another incident involving threats against Western bridges, although the information in that case, too, was described as uncorroborated and of questionable credibility. Then California Governor Gray Davis took it public and was criticized for doing so. Davis said he was trying to balance the need to keep the public safe against encouraging undue alarm. And that may be the case here, too. Different people or different levels of government may find different tipping points -- Aaron.

BROWN: Just given the compartmentalized nature of al Qaeda, al Qaeda-like groups, is it reasonable to assume that some guy taken prisoner in Iraq would know of some plan scheduled to take place in New York City?

MESERVE: Well, ultimately, I guess the federal officials who have looked at this information had doubts about whether that would be the case.

Al Qaeda is an incredibly complex organization, difficult for me to say, sitting where I am, whether indeed that might be the case, that someone in Iraq might know what was happening here. Apparently, they've reached the conclusion that someone over there didn't know what they were talking about.

BROWN: Jeanne, thank you -- Jeanne Meserve.

For public officials, you can understand the abundance-of-caution argument. If something were to happen, they want to say they were prepared, they did everything they could.

So, we will have more on this as we go along tonight.

All this played out with the words of the president this morning still hanging in the air. He addressed the country this morning in shades of Winston Churchill, a hero of his, no retreat from Iraq, no surrender to terrorism. But, also, critics responded, those are just words. That's all, just words, not substance.

From the White House tonight, CNN's Dana Bash.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): With support for Iraq at an all-time low, the president cast his unmistakably familiar stay the course refrain in new stark terms.

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're facing a radical ideology with unalterable objectives, to enslave whole nations and intimidate the world.

BASH: In his latest of several speeches billed as major, Mr. Bush slapped back at critics calling for withdrawal.

BUSH: There's always a temptation in the middle of a long struggle to seek the quiet life.

BASH: He tried to urge patience in Iraq by saying insurgents there and attackers in Bali and London are all part of one ideological struggle, a fight against terrorism he now compares to battles against communism and fascism.

BUSH: Enabling them to overthrow all moderate governments in the region and establish a radical Islamic empire that spans from Spain to Indonesia.

BASH: And he chided Osama bin Laden as a hypocritical son of privilege, duping less fortunate Muslims into becoming suicide bombers.

BUSH: He assures them that his -- that this is the road to paradise, though he never offers to go along for the ride.

BASH: To critics who say war in Iraq created more radical terrorism, this rebuttal.

BUSH: I would remain them that we were not in Iraq on September the 11th, 2001. And Al Qaeda attacked us anyway.

BASH: But Democrats, emboldened by Mr. Bush's political struggles, hit back.

SEN. JAY ROCKEFELLER (D), WEST VIRGINIA: I think the president is wrong about that. I think what's going on in Iraq has enormously fueled the war on terrorism.

BASH: Aside from the new rhetoric, the sole new nugget of hard information about the fight against terrorism was boasting of 10 thwarted attacks, three inside U. S.

BUSH: The enemy is wounded, but the enemy is still capable of global operations.

BASH: But he did not elaborate. And it was not on this fact sheet released with the speech. Aides pointed to a 2003 plot to blow up a New York bridge and one involving Jose Padilla, accused of planning a dirty bomb attack. They were not prepared to back up the rest.

SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Those are two off the top of my head. I'll be glad to see what additional information we can get you.

BASH (on camera): At the end of the day, the White House did release this list of 10 plots they say backs up the president's claim, ranging from a West Coast airliner plot in 2002 to one on the East Coast in 2003 to several attacks the U.S. helped stop abroad. The list is quite vague, but the message the president tried to send was not. It's not just luck. There hasn't been an attack on the U.S. in four years.

Dana Bash, CNN, the White House.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Still to come in the hour ahead, a breakthrough in the fight against cervical cancer.

But, first at about a quarter past the hour, time for some of the other stories that made news on this day.

Erica Hill joins us tonight from Atlanta.

Good evening, Ms. Hill.

ERICA HILL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, Mr. Brown, good evening to you. The prosecutor investigating a White House leak of a CIA agent's identity says he wants presidential adviser Karl Rove to testify again and this time without immunity. Rove will appear before the federal grand jury for a fourth time. The prosecutor's office now says there's no guarantee Rove will not be indicted for his role in the outing of Valerie Plame. And NEWSNIGHT is going to bring you more on this case a little later in the program. So, you will want to stay with us on that.

Meantime, British Prime Minister Tony Blair says Iran may be supplying explosive devices to insurgents in Iraq. In a press conference today, Blair warned the Iranian government to stay out of the conflict. The Iranian ambassador in London said Blair had no evidence to back his claim.

About 14,000 additional troops have been deployed to Iraq ahead of the October 15 constitutional referendum. The U.S. presence in Iraq now at one of its highest level since the invasion, with a total of 152,000 troops on the ground.

Meantime, a homecoming for 160 members of the Ohio-based 3rd Battalion, 25th Marines, greeted by thousands in Brookpark, Ohio, along a mile-long parade route. The battalion lost 14 members in Iraq, 14 of them in a string of attacks over the summer. Talk about a great day for them.

BROWN: It was nice to see them come home, limping some, but it was nice to see them come home.

Thank you. We will check back with you in a half-an-hour.

Much more ahead on the program tonight, starting with what we're learning about the new police chief, the interim chief, in New Orleans.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

WARREN RILEY, ACTING NEW ORLEANS POLICE SUPERINTENDENT: I have in fact been suspended five times in my career.

BROWN (voice-over): Four suspensions for minor infractions, a fifth for ignoring a cry for help. A battered woman died.

TERRI PREVOST, SISTER OF SHARON ROBINSON: I don't hold him personally for her death. I just feel like he could have done just a little bit more.

BROWN: As bad as Katrina was...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have lost everything.

BROWN: ... it in fact could have been much worse. We will show you the bullet New Orleans dodged.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neither the CIA, nor FBI are in the subways systems protecting. It's cops that go down there and do that. BROWN: The country's biggest terrorist target.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can't wait for a federal report that comes six months or a year later.

BROWN: What New York City is doing to protect itself.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We prevented 100 percent of pre-cancerous changes in the women that received the vaccine.

BROWN: The vaccine that can prevents cervical cancer, how many lives could it save?

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: In New Orleans, Warren Riley has been the city's police superintendent for just over a week now. Since then, he's lowered the boom on rogue elements in the department, suspending officers suspected of looting and other bad behavior during the chaos of Katrina.

With that ugly story over, for now at least, the police chief is trying to diffuse another problem, one that makes him out as the bad guy.

Reporting for us tonight from New Orleans, CNN's Drew Griffin.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The new police chief of New Orleans is coming clean on a record he knows is about to be exposed.

RILEY: I have in fact been suspended five times in my career.

GRIFFIN: Warren Riley has been a cop for the past 26 years. His five suspensions include three for minor car accidents on duty. There is a suspension for not showing up for an assigned municipal court date, also minor.

At issue, though, is the fifth suspension. It involved Terri Prevost's sister, Sharon.

TERRI PREVOST, SHARON ROBINSON'S SISTER: Warren has a daughter, and I posed this question to him. You have a daughter. Wouldn't you have wanted someone else to take an extra mile to help your daughter? Regardless of what the law stated back then? This was a battered woman who was in need of much help from you.

GRIFFIN (on camera): On February 17, 1995, a battered woman named Sharon Robinson, in need of help from anyone, came to this office of the New Orleans Police Department. She told a tale of a cop, a boyfriend, who was threatening to kill her, holding a gun to her head. She even told an officer that this officer had cut off all her hair and said, no one would want to date a bald woman.

She gave that report to an officer named Warren Riley. That officer, Warren Riley, gave the report to no one. Three months later, Sharon Robinson was murdered.

PREVOST: I don't hold him personally for her death. I just feel like he could have done just a little bit more.

GRIFFIN (voice-over): Terri Prevost is appalled that the officer who refused to intervene in her sister's domestic abuse is now the new interim chief of New Orleans. While she does not directly hold Warren Riley responsible for Sharon's death, she does question his judgment. Riley's report of his encounter with Sharon Robinson detailing the violent relationship with her cop boyfriend did not appear at the New Orleans Police Department until the day after her murder.

RILEY: I am the person who actually brought that, at the time of her death, brought it to our Public Integrity Bureau.

GRIFFIN: The boyfriend immediately became a suspect, though he was never charged. Riley, then a lieutenant, was suspended for three days for failing to accept and document a complaint from a woman accusing a police officer of threats, aggravated assault and battery.

Last night, the chief called that suspension another minor incident.

RILEY: I did my job appropriately at the time. I was in fact reprimanded for it. But that was basically Superintendent Pennington, who was the chief at the time, basically stated in civil service that it was a mistake.

GRIFFIN: A mistake that Riley calls a mixup that did not cost him much at all.

After his suspension, he continued rising through the ranks, eventually becoming the number two man at the NOPD. Now the man who Terri Prevost says looked the other way when her sister, battered and beaten, came to his door, is now running the New Orleans Police Department.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GRIFFIN: Interim Chief Riley, Aaron, is trying to keep that number one job in this town, which is why he may trying to get out in front of the story on his disciplinary record.

That record may also be why Mayor Ray Nagin has yet to name him the permanent chief of the New Orleans Police Department -- Aaron.

BROWN: Actually, two questions. On the point about him getting out in front of the story or not getting out in front of the story, no matter how you look at it, this story came out when he was running for sheriff, as I recall a while back. GRIFFIN: It came out when he was running for -- it came out when he was running for sheriff. He tried to get around it. He lost that election race for sheriff, came right back to the NOPD as the number two man and has been waiting in the wings ever since.

He is very politically tied to Mayor Ray Nagin. The mayor is a big supporter. So, this was aired out in the public. A couple days ago, we got hold of the actual records and began asking for an interview on this, Aaron. And that's when the chief decided to come out publicly.

BROWN: And -- yes, as -- as we should have done, actually.

And just -- just so that people understand the parameters of this, the cop boyfriend has never been accused, whatever -- I wouldn't go so far as to say there's no evidence. I don't know that there is or there isn't. But he's never been charged with killing this woman?

GRIFFIN: He's never been charged, but, for a long time, that officer was prime suspect number one, not only in this murder, Aaron, but in several murders, in a string of murders. Actually, it was a serial murder case going on here in which that officer was a suspect. Eventually, he was never charged. He went back to the New Orleans Police Department and then was later dismissed.

BROWN: Drew, thank you. Good work, Drew Griffin down in New Orleans.

Chief Riley or interim Chief Riley, however he prefers to be referred to these days, will be a guest on CNN's "AMERICAN MORNING," 7:00 a.m. Eastern time tomorrow -- Anderson.

COOPER: Yes, Aaron.

I actually talked to the chief last night. And it is interesting. I mean, what he will say in his defense is, look, I have been on the force for some-20 years. I have served in every department on that force. I know this police force backwards and forwards. I deserve to run it.

That's probably what he will say tomorrow. That's what said to me just last night.

There's an element of the absurd here. You know, if you get run over by a bus or by a freight train, you're just as dead either way. But what's true for a person is less true for a city. What would happen if New Orleans and the Gulf were hit by a freight train, not a bus?

Here's CNN's Jacqui Jeras.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is this?

JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST (voice-over): As Katrina victims sort through the rubble and pick up the pieces of their lives, researchers are combing through the damage and data to learn more about the power of destruction. Pictures like this show the raw power of Katrina's storm surge. But pictures like this have convinced some scientists New Orleans could have fared worse.

JOSH WURMAN, CENTER FOR SEVERE WEATHER RESEARCH: That tells us that the winds were not 140 miles an hour sustained, probably not even 120 miles an hour sustained. Particularly in New Orleans, which was on the weaker side of Katrina, the winds probably did not exceed 100 miles per hour.

JERAS: That means Katrina probably will be downgraded to a Category 3 when it hit the coast, according to Wurman. And preliminary data from the National Hurricane Research Center supports that.

If Katrina was a 3, what would a 4 have done to New Orleans? The most significant difference would be the wind damage. The damage from a Category 4 is about 40 percent worse than a 3. Take a well-built one-story home. A Category 3 storm may damage the roof and the windows, but a Category 4 would tear the roof off and possibly flatten the home.

In a high-rise, a Category 3 would probably leave the windows intact. A 4 likely would knock out all of the windows and gut the building. But the worst devastation from Katrina and most storms isn't the wind, but the storm surge, which is far worse in a Category 4.

STEPHEN BAIG, NATIONAL HURRICANE CENTER: The difference between a Category 3 and a Category 4 for storm surge rather depends on what part of the coastline are we talking about? In the New Orleans area, it can be a matter of as much as four or five feet.

JERAS: That four or five feet can make a crucial difference in cities like New Orleans protected by levees. Four feet can keep it under or put it over the top.

BAIG: We have problems defining just where sea level is. And the benchmarks that are used to measure the elevations, let's say of the levee heights, may be inaccurate, as much as four feet in their actual real elevations.

JERAS: In this case, we may never know the exact measurement, because the levee breach flooded the city with more water than the surge would have.

And then there's the problem that the city and much of the Gulf coastline are literally sinking. The precise intensity of this storm matters little to the people who lost family, friends, homes and jobs. But it could make a big difference in how the region is reconstructed.

WURMAN: When we think about how to protect metropolitan areas, we shouldn't use Katrina as the bellwether worst-case standard. It was far from the worse case. And if we really want to protect a city from a Category 4 or 5 and the strong side of a Category 4 or 5, we need to do qualitatively different things in terms of levee design, in terms of getting more people evacuated.

JERAS (on camera): National Hurricane Center meteorologists say they expect their final report in a number of weeks, though sometimes research can take longer. Hurricane Andrew was upgraded to a Category 5 storm 10 years after making landfall.

Jacqui Jeras, CNN.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: Well, just ahead on the program tonight, much more on what is going on beneath the streets of New York tonight, with police scrambling to keep the subways safe.

And the president's top adviser prepares to face the grand jury again, his fourth appearance. Is an indictment next for Karl Rove?

From New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: That's the scene here live in Times Square, at New York City's subway station. We're in Times Square because the system, the subway system, is on alert.

At about half past the hour, here's what -- here's what we know about the alert.

New York's mayor, Michael Bloomberg, says the FBI has informed him and other city officials of a specific threat, in his words, to the subway system, an administration official telling us that the threat involves the use of explosives, perhaps hidden in baby carriages, though other officials have expressed doubt about either the practicality of the plot or credibility of the threat.

Fifteen to 20 people were to have carried it out, according to the information. The threat may also have an expiration date sometime in the next few days. Operations appear to be ongoing. There are no specifics there.

Intelligence from Iraq triggered this latest security alert. According to our sources, it definitely has led to a raid in that country which took place last night.

And as we speak, the turn styles keep turning, New Yorkers not stopping being New Yorkers as CNN's Jason Carroll is finding out right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Rush hour at New York's Penn Station. Heightened security as police check a commuters bag. Riders can expect more police and random checks now that there is a new threat against mass transit in the city. One that has some subway riders feeling uneasy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The reality is it could happen. I don't feel 100 percent safe, to be honest.

CARROLL: After the London bombings three months ago, New York City increased spot checks of trains and the use of national guardsmen. The police department's especially trained Hercules anti- terrorism team has been out in force. Some commuters say they have no choice but to take subways despite the new threat but do so with caution.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With a huge amount of trepidation a huge amount of concern, looking over my shoulder, and hoping and praying that something that is inevitable doesn't happen today.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You become a little apprehensive. But I think in time, we're kind of conditioned to expect some sort of stress or threat level. And you just move on with what you have to do.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CARROLL (on camera): And law enforcement will be relying on the eyes and ears of the public to help them. They're asking people to be as vigilant as possible in reporting anything that might be suspicious. Anderson?

COOPER: And the subways continue to operate and continue to remain packed. Nothing can stop New York from moving on. Jason, thanks. This may be the first time New York officials can call a threat to our subways credible. But the NYPD has been working since 2001 to make the system and a city a tough target for terrorists. Now the department's terrorism beat has grown from a few dozen officers to over a thousand and then have eyes and ears well beyond the outer boroughs.

CNN's national security correspondent David Ensor has this exclusive look inside New York's own version of the CIA.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID ENSOR, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside the Empire State Building, a police SWAT team arrives without warning. Heavily armed officers move in to sweep the rooftop observation deck.

High visibility today, huh?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unbelievable.

ENSOR: High above the same building a police helicopter surveys Manhattan, looking for anything suspicious.

How good are the optics?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very good. This camera consists of three lenses.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're eastbound on 42nd at this time.

ENSOR: Down on 42nd Street a police commander orders 75 squad cars out on surprise patrols throughout the city. New, unconventional ways doing business, ordered by Police Commissioner Ray Kelly.

POLICE COMMISSIONER RAY KELLY, NYPD: I think we're doing things here certainly that we haven't done before. But I don't think any municipal police agency has ever done. The reason we do it, we believe we're at the top of the terrorist target list.

ENSOR: And Commissioner Kelly has hired a top 35 year CIA veteran to set up New York's own CIA, complete with officers overseas.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He should be there sometime during the first week or two.

ENSOR: Each day Kelly is briefed by his top deputies handling counter-terrorism and intelligence gathering.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm in the business of establishing trip wires or listening posts that involve informants of sorts. We won't go into that. But I don't get my intelligence from reading the newspapers.

ENSOR: NYPD has detectives based in Britain, Israel, Singapore, Canada, France, the Dominican Republic and soon Jordan. They're gathering and sharing first hand intelligence on potential terror threats in New York City.

Why can't New York rely on the CIA or the FBI to protect it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neither the CIA nor the FBI are in the subway systems protecting it. It's cops that go down there and do that.

ENSOR: And based on what it heard about the July 7th London attacks, the NYPD tightened its security tactic is in the subway that very same day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We were able to act quickly because we had that detective in London.

ENSOR (on camera): Before the 2001 terrorist attacks the NYPD had no more than a couple of dozen officers working full time on the terrorism beat. These days it's a thousand and sometimes more.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anything unusual, out of the ordinary?

ENSOR (voice-over): Another new weapon for the police, Project Nexus (ph), which in the past three and a half has enlisted more than 25,000 businesses to help in tracking suspicious activities. Many intelligence professionals say NYPD could be a model, more nimble, better equipped and motivated, more likely than the federal government to stop the next attack against this city. David Ensor, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: And Aaron, of course, the police actually knew the information about this threat for several days. Really only today they decided to come forward with it because the information was apparently leaking out.

BROWN: To put some of this in context, the country spends about $4 billion a year on airplane security and a couple of hundred million dollars to secure mass transit in the country. New York included.

COOPER: And so many people ride the subways everyday and the buses here in New York. It's virtually impossible to protect it all. The end result relies on people keeping their eyes open.

BROWN: It does indeed. And they will tomorrow. I suspect a quick update now on the other somewhat odd and troubling story of the week, allegations of a spy at the White House. A federal grand jury today indicting Michael Aquino, he's the one wearing glasses there, former police official from the Philippines who is now charged with conspiracy and acting as an unregistered agent of a foreign official.

Another man a former marine who worked at the White House allegedly passed more than 100 classified documents concerning the Philippines to government officials there. He is said to be cooperating with authorities and has so far not been charged.

Still ahead in the hour, the president's right hand man ready to raise his right hand again as it turns out. Karl Rove we speak of.

And Bill Clinton gets panned, the former head of the FBI on his frustrating tenure and relationship with the former president. We take a break first around the world. This is NEWSNIGHT.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Karl Rove, the president's top political adviser and his deputy chief of staff has appeared three times now before the federal grand jury in Washington, looking into the leak that outed CIA officer Valerie Plame and today, Mr. Rove's lawyer said Mr. Rove will make it four.

And this time, without any assurances from the special prosecutor that he will not be indicted for what he might tell the grand jury, which raises -- the question, why do it at all?

A question we put to Lawrence O'Donnell, who has one job on television's West Wing and another working and writing about the real one. We spoke to Larry earlier tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Larry, what do you think's going on here? Do you think we're at a point in the not-too-distant future we're going to see Karl Rove with a raincoat over his head being perp-walked down the street in Washington?

LAWRENCE O'DONNELL, POLITICAL ANALYST: No. If he is indicted there won't be any handcuffs and there won't be any perp-walks. His back is against the wall with this prosecutor. He is volunteering to go to the grand jury, to expose himself once again under oath, which is a very, very dangerous thing to do. The likely scenario is that the prosecutor has told Rove's lawyer that the grand jury is likely to indict him for something and Rove's lawyer, in return, knowing in this case, the very worst thing that can happen to Karl Rove at this point is just getting indicted.

He doesn't have to get convicted to have his life ruined. So in that situation, the lawyer is saying, can I send my client back in there, in effect, to try to convince these grand jurors personally to not issue the indictment that you, the prosecutor might ask them to do? A very ...

BROWN: To try to talk them out of this?

O'DONNELL: Yes, and it can be done, if the territory is perjury, which is very likely where we are, if it's about the underlying offense of a national security leak, it's pretty impossible to talk yourself out of the underlying offensives of these things. But perjury, you can talk your way out of it because you talked your way into it. You can say I did not understand the question. I did not understand that you meant then when I thought you meant now, there is a lot of things you can, do as President Clinton showed us when he was under the threat of perjury.

BROWN: Part of the frustration here is I think is that this prosecutor, who has obviously been very aggressive, in a town that leaks all the time everything and everyone, Ken Starr, and that office couldn't stop the leaks, it looked like New Orleans during the hurricane. They don't leak at all.

O'DONNELL: That's right. And all the best and most fruitful leaks in this case have come from Karl Rove's lawyer, who's conducted a very good campaign of softening up the press for what's about to come next. It is going to be revealed Karl Rove was the source of Matt Cooper at "Time" magazine. I revealed that on television and the next day, Karl Rove's lawyer was out there trying to massage that story right away. And he's been doing that all along, until today, when he has finally said, he will no longer comment on his communications with the prosecutor.

He has previously said the prosecutor has assured him that Rove is not a target of the investigation. That was months ago. This is an investigation now that is long past the point where a prosecutor would issue a so-called target letter, write a letter to someone saying you're a target. The prosecutor is way too close to issuing indictments. He doesn't have to do any target letters at this point.

BROWN: You think the fact that - to make this point, do you think the fact that Mr. Rove's lawyer is no longer saying something means that in fact it has happened or at least that is the practical effect of the moment?

O'DONNELL: It means that Rove's lawyer is in very active negotiation with the U.S. attorney including the possibility of negotiating something down to a misdemeanor from a felony, negotiating the different kind of charge that you might plea to. He could be negotiating testimony exchange. If Rove is charged or not charged in a certain zone, the Rove will offer helpful testimony under oath that could help the prosecutor with other possible indictments. This is a wide open free form plea bargaining and negotiating situation with probably more than just Rove at this point.

BROWN: Good to see you. Thanks for joining us tonight.

O'DONNELL: Thank you, Aaron.

BROWN: Thank you.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: Lawrence O'Donnell.

Ahead on the program tonight, a medical mystery solved, it seems. But it killed more than a dozen nursing home patients and left 30 others hospitalized? Will those still alive recover? We break first. This is NEWSNIGHT.

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COOPER: Looking at a live picture of a New York City subway, thousands of commuters still winding their way home or heading home after dinner in the City of New York. There was a specific threat against subways made or announced today. City officials in New York have known about the threat for several days but only chose to come forward with it today. Officials in Washington, however, are discounting the credibility of the information.

A lot more on that in the hour ahead.

Also still to come, a new vaccine could save thousands of lives. But first, at about a quarter to the hour, time once again to check on headlines with Erica Hill in Atlanta. Hey, Erica.

HILL: Hey, Anderson. Nice to see you again.

The mysterious disease that killed 16 elderly residents at a Canadian nursing home has now been identified as legionnaire's disease. The airborne disease can be treated with antibiotics so authorities are confident no one else will be sickened. About 70 people came into contact with the bacteria before it was positively identified.

In Guatemala, rescue workers digging out victims of a massive mud slide caused by the heavy rains of Hurricane Stan. Forty people are reported dead in the lakeside town, Santiago Atazlan (ph) and authorities fear as many as 800 locals and tourists are missing.

Former FBI Director Louis free is denouncing his old boss. In a new book, Freeh said he had trouble working under Bill Clinton because of the former president's, quote, "closets full of skeletons." Freeh says he was distracted for two terms targeting Clinton himself.

There you go, zinger.

COOPER: Soon to be appearing on a TV near you. Thanks very much. Thanks Erica. Appreciate that.

Coming up, a vaccine said to prevent the most common kind of cervical cancer, could be 100 percent of the time, 100 percent effective. That would be remarkable. This is NEWSNIGHT. Stay with us.

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BROWN: Women may soon have a new weapon in fighting cervical cancer. It's a vaccine that shows results in the two of the most common strains of a virus that lead to the cancer. About 4,000 women die each year from the disease so this is an extraordinary prospect. Merck, the drug company, hopes to make the vaccine by the year's end. Dr. Carol Brown is a gynecologic oncologist at famed Sloan-Kettering here in New York and she is with us tonight. I kind of walk a little delicately through this. This doesn't cure cancer?

DR. CAROL BROWN, MEMORIAL-SLOAN KETTERING CANCER CENTER: No. This vaccine doesn't cure cancer it actually prevents cancer from ever developing.

BROWN: Because often, often or always, before cervical cancer presents itself, these viruses are present?

C. BROWN: These viruses are present in over 90 -- well over 90 percent of cases of cervical cancer. So it's really a unique situation where we know almost all cases of cancer are caused by this type of virus.

BROWN: What this virus?

C. BROWN: Called the human papilloma virus or HPV, and it is a virus sexually transmitted, there are over 100 different types but one of the key ropes this vaccine is successful is that only two types, types 16 and 18 are responsible for most of the cases of cervical cancer.

BROWN: Not all women who get the virus get the cancer, but 90 percent of the women who - 90 percent of the women who have cervical cancer have had the virus?

C. BROWN: Absolutely.

BROWN: The fact we apparently now can stop a precursor to the cancer, does it tell us that we can -- that we know what causes the cancer? Exactly?

C. BROWN: It really does. Again, this is an unusual cancer story, in that this HPV, or human papilloma virus is not the only cause of the cancer but it's the major cause. There probably have to be other factors present, probably some derangements of the immune system that allow the virus to take over.

BROWN: Derangements?

C. BROWN: The immune system, for example, you said, most women who get infected with the virus don't get cancer. Over 20 million men and women in the United States at any time have HPV infections but the vast majority never know they have the infection and clear it after a couple of years. So there's something about the women who do get cervical cancer that allows this virus to enter the cells of the cervix and start causing these changes.

BROWN: I want to ask two things. I have got about a minute. That we don't know. We don't know who will get it. OK. Do we take this vaccine and give it to every sexually active woman?

C. BROWN: Actually, ideally this vaccine should be administered before the woman is exposed to the virus, and that would be before the onset of sexual activity, ideally.

BROWN: So does it become like a childhood inoculation?

C. BROWN: That's still to be determined but that would be one way to implement it.

BROWN: Because I suppose everything these days has some other political ramifications to this. Will people object because they say that will make women more promiscuous, it will take a threat of something away?

C. BROWN: We certainly hope not. This is a tremendous advance. If it's something that can save over 4,000 lives in the United States and over 300,000 lives worldwide, we'd hope political issues wouldn't really be a factor and we'd really base our decisions on science.

BROWN: So would we. Nice to meet you. Thanks for coming in. Really nice job.

Anderson, they always say we don't get to report good news stories but we did tonight.

COOPER: Incredibly remarkable if it does turn out to be as effective as they think it may be, Aaron.

Coming up in this next hour, we're going to have the latest developments on the story still unfolding on the streets of New York. The terror threat against New York subways, what else did police learn? We'll have more details ahead.

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