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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Eyewitness Account of New Orleans Police Beating; Hurricane Wilma Threatens Florida; Supreme Court Nominee Harriet Miers and Abortion
Aired October 18, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, it is a very different New Orleans tonight. Good evening from the French Quarter of New Orleans, a city coming back to life, but a city with a long, long way to go.
From New Orleans and New York and around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: A new witness in the shocking police beating in New Orleans says the police version of events is plain wrong. She says the victim was not intoxicated, not belligerent. The police stand by their story. We hear from both.
Anderson returns to New Orleans after Katrina -- his astonishing look, what he found then compared to today.
What's going on here? Now this man, the former attorney for "New York Times" reporter Judy Miller, says, in the case of the CIA scandal that leads to the White House, she has had a memory lapse about her sources. We try to sort the facts from the fiction.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ANNOUNCER: This is NEWSNIGHT. Live from the CNN Broadcast Center in New York is Aaron Brown, and, live from New Orleans, Anderson Cooper.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Well, good evening, again.
We have much to cover tonight, from both New York and New Orleans and points between.
First, here's what's happening at this moment. We continue to keep a close eye on Hurricane Wilma, the 12th hurricane of the season. It could become a Category 3 storm, with winds topping 110 miles an hour, by tomorrow. The hurricane is heading towards the Gulf Coast, possibly Florida. We will update the situation coming up.
It appears Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers has, in fact, an opinion on abortion. When running for the Dallas City Council back in 1989, Ms. Miers said, in a questionnaire, she would support a national constitutional amendment that bans abortion, except when necessary to prevent the mother's death. The trial of former Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein expected to begin tomorrow -- his lawyers are expected to ask for a three-month delay. Mr. Hussein is accused of killing tens of thousands of people. But the tribunal will be dealing with the execution of 140 men back in 1982.
And we continue to monitor a failing dam in Taunton, Massachusetts. Officials fear it could collapse at any moment. Two thousand residents evacuated. The mayor has declared a state of emergency there.
Anderson, good evening.
COOPER: Aaron, good evening.
I'm standing in the heart of the French Quarter at the corner of Conti and Bourbon Street. And, as you can see, there are signs of life here. That's a very good sign, indeed. A lot of the people you probably see behind me or you see on the streets from our various cameras are involved in some way in the relief effort here.
They're off-duty National Guard troops or law enforcement personnel, or they work for the Red Cross or the Peace Corps. A lot of different folks are here. They -- whenever they have a few hours off, they will come down to Bourbon Street, because it is literally the only place to go for them in New Orleans.
There are so many ways to recover from Hurricane Katrina. This city is trying so many different ways. We will have a progress report a little bit later -- but, first, an update on a beating that took place right behind me, right over there, the brutal and bloody beating of a 64-year-old man by police officers. The police say he was the aggressor.
Tonight, in an exclusive interview, a woman who says she was there that night and she saw a much different story.
Here's CNN's Dan Simon.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
Dan Simon, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You don't see her on the videotape, but she says she was there, standing not far from the cameraman who took these pictures.
VERONICA: We were on the other side of the street looking.
SIMON: Veronica says she saw the entire beating incident on Bourbon Street. A reluctant witness, she asked us not to use her last name. She says she is only coming forward now to defend Robert Davis, the 64-year-old retired schoolteacher, from accusations like this from the police officers' lawyer.
FRANK DESALVO, ATTORNEY FOR NEW ORLEANS POLICE OFFICERS: His speech was slurred. He was belligerent. He told the officers to go F. themselves and pushes away -- pushed them away in an attempt to get away.
SIMON: But Veronica says she saw nothing of the sort.
VERONICA: Mr. Davis crossed the street in front of us. And he didn't appear to be intoxicated.
SIMON (on camera): Didn't appear to be drunk at all?
VERONICA: No.
SIMON: Just looked like a normal guy?
VERONICA: Yes.
SIMON: Who was crossing the street?
You didn't see stumbling?
VERONICA: No.
SIMON: You didn't hear any shouting?
VERONICA: No.
SIMON: Nothing to illustrate that he was drunk?
VERONICA: No.
SIMON (voice-over): The beating, she says, still causes her to have sleepless nights.
VERONICA: I still have images in my head of this man lying motionless in a puddle of blood. It was very hard.
SIMON: Veronica was in New Orleans as a Red Cross volunteer. She has three children, a husband and a stable job. Yet, to help Katrina victims, she put her Northern California life on hold.
VERONICA: It was very emotional. And it's -- it's -- it's hard to see other people lose everything, their house, their car, their family. The -- it's hard to see that every day.
SIMON: Veronica volunteered for two weeks and was prepared for a third, until she and two friends went to Bourbon Street that Saturday night for a hot meal. The incident with Robert Davis, she says, left her so shaken, she felt the need to come home.
VERONICA: I was in shock. I think my friends were in shock. I think we were just in disbelief. We had -- we just had no idea that something like that could happen. It was that unbelievable.
SIMON: As we watch the video, she explains how she and her friends cross the street and observe Davis approach a police officer on horseback. Davis said it was to inquire about the curfew.
(on camera): They're talking? VERONICA: Yes.
SIMON: And it seemed civil to you?
VERONICA: Yes.
SIMON: Didn't seem like anybody was arguing?
VERONICA: No.
SIMON: She says Davis then walked across the street and was confronted by an officer, then two officers.
VERONICA: The second officer started what looked like hitting him on the head. And, then, a lot of officers came.
SIMON (voice-over): As the officers and Davis appear to struggle, one of Veronica's friends, this woman, tries to intervene, to explain to the officer on horseback that the man did nothing wrong. But she is shooed away. She and her friends initially were convinced Davis was a wanted criminal.
VERONICA: I was wondering what this man could have done, what horrid thing this man could have done, to deserve that.
SIMON: Veronica says she has tried to share her story with authorities in Louisiana, but has been unable to reach anyone by phone.
VERONICA: But the New Orleans police line is constantly busy.
SIMON: As for why she's talking to CNN...
VERONICA: I want justice. I want a fair -- I want them to be fair to Mr. Davis. And, right now, I don't think that's happening.
SIMON: As a Red Cross volunteer, Veronica helped hundreds of people. Now she says she's prepared to help one more by testifying for Robert Davis in court.
Dan Simon, CNN, San Francisco.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: The police involved in this incident, of course, see it very differently.
We asked their attorney, Frank DeSalvo, to join us a little bit earlier. He is the attorney representing the police. And he's going to arguing this case in court. I spoke to him a few hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: All along you have maintained that Mr. Davis was -- was drunk. You said he was belligerently drunk and that he knocked into a police horse. This witness, Veronica, who worked with the Red Cross, says she didn't see him knock into a police horse, that he seemed to have a civil conversation with the man on -- on the horse, and that he walk off.
DESALVO: Well, first of all, it's preposterous to believe that two police officers just go beat somebody up that's being civil for no reason at all.
You take that as your premise, then you know that something else happened. Now, if this woman failed to see it, then she's seeing what she wanted to see. Now, perhaps, from her vantage point, she couldn't see what she said she saw or perhaps she saw what she wanted to see or refused to see what she did see. I think she probably, in her own heart of hearts, believes she's telling the truth.
But it's not going to be very hard, when she gets on a witness stand, to either convince her that she's wrong or a judge for sure.
COOPER: But do you have any witnesses, though, who -- who can back up the story, your story, that Mr. Davis appeared intoxicated?
DESALVO: I have prominent citizens from New Orleans who saw the whole thing. We have witnesses from earlier in the evening who will testify how intoxicated he was. I have witnesses to show how...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Wait. You say witnesses from earlier in the evening. What, he said he had had a dinner. Did you say -- are you saying he drank over the course of dinner?
DESALVO: No. I don't think he had that dinner.
And I can -- I have witnesses to show how drunk he's been many times over the past few years.
COOPER: So, you're going to attack this man's credibility.
DESALVO: Well, he went on television, national television. He said he hadn't had a drink for 25 years. It's a lie.
He went on national television and said he never resisted, because he only had that one little piece of tape. And he thought that was all. But when the rest of the tape came out, he clearly was resisting. And he made a liar out of himself then.
COOPER: You have also repeatedly said that it was -- it's -- it's entirely police procedure to -- to -- to hit somebody on the back of the head -- I mean, this man was hit, basically, here four times in the back of the head.
DESALVO: No. If you look at that tape, he was hit one time in the back of the head. He was hit in this area of the shoulder sometimes, sometimes below.
COOPER: Well...
(CROSSTALK)
DESALVO: There's a pressure point right here that he was aiming for. And if he hits him in the back of the head, then, so be it.
COOPER: But -- but -- well, he -- well, I mean, I -- we have all watched that tape. I don't think anyone has actually seen him being hit in the shoulder. It looks an awful lot like he's hit in the lower neck, back-of-head area.
DESALVO: Right. You know, I have other news people, after I told them back, when back and looked at it, called me back and said, Frank, you are right.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: You have also said for weeks that -- or for the last week-and-a-half or so -- that he was injured in the fall down, that he hit his head in the fall.
Clearly, on -- on the -- the new minute that was released in the videotape, his head is being -- it's in a vice, a grip, of an FBI agent. And it's actually the FBI agent who takes the brunt of the fall.
DESALVO: It may very well be that his nose hit the FBI agent's arm or something or got twisted in that fall, because, if you look at that tape, at no time do you see blood on his face until he gets up from that fall.
And you have very clear pictures of his face from the time that incident happened until the time he went down to the ground. And there was never any blood on his face.
COOPER: And do you still...
(CROSSTALK)
DESALVO: There was never any blood on that wall that he was up against.
COOPER: When -- when we talked last week, it was the first time you had seen that extra minute of tape. It -- it -- it appears there's a kick when he is down on the ground. You called it a step- down.
DESALVO: That's exactly what it was. He was trying to turn over. And they don't want him to turn over. So, the cop just did that to push him back down, to let him know, don't get up. Don't get up.
Now, the other alternative for the cop is to go down and put his hand in this man's...
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Well, no, no. There are -- there are two times when he -- he -- when he puts his foot on him.
But there's a time before that, in this new minute of tape, where he clearly raises his foot and -- and, you know, pushes it in the direction -- I mean, I don't know what the official definition of a kick is, but I -- I have -- I have never heard of a step-down. What is a step-down?
DESALVO: Well, it's a word I came up with.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Apparently so.
DESALVO: Lie down on the ground. I will show you.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Oh, no. That's all right.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
DESALVO: ... touch him like that to push him back down. Don't roll rover. Don't get up.
COOPER: All right.
DESALVO: That's all.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Robert Davis is going to stand trial in three months, on January 18.
Aaron, the officers are going to make their next court appearance a week earlier on January 11.
BROWN: All of this is -- I mean, actually -- I mean, we have both looked at this tape what sometimes seems endlessly. It is not clear to me at what point he starts bleeding.
COOPER: Yes. It's true.
I mean, what -- what Frank DeSalvo had been saying up until that new portion of the tape was that, all along, he got bloody in the fall, that he hit his head on the floor. Clearly, that is not happening. Tonight, this is the first time I have heard him said, maybe the blood started because his nose hit the FBI agent on the way down.
But, yes, it is not clear at this point when he starts to bleed. Clearly, it is some time when he is down on the ground.
BROWN: Yes. I mean, actually, when the FBI agent sits him up -- he's sort of half sitting up -- he doesn't appear, even at that point, to be bleeding. And then there -- there's a kind of break in the tape between -- before our shot, literally, the CNN shot, which is the shot of him lying there in a pool of blood.
So, it -- there's something that we just don't know yet. There's something that happens after this moment. See, there, he doesn't appear -- we could be wrong about this -- but he doesn't appear to be bleeding. So, at what point he is -- you know, at what point that happens is part of the mystery, I guess, that a judge and the lawyers will fight about.
COOPER: Yes.
And, as one of the things you have said about this tape is, I mean, everyone sort of brings with -- brings to it what they -- what they want, what they see. You can see the tape and you can make a case for whatever argument you want to make. Of course it's -- you know, will finally be up to a jury or judge here in New Orleans.
BROWN: Yes, it will. And we will be following that, too.
On to other matters now. Hurricane Wilma next, and the news is simple enough. Wilma is now a hurricane, not a major one, not yet, but, in the right place, at the right time, to become one, and to become one soon. In case you're keeping count, there have been 11 other hurricanes so far this season. How this will stack up is anyone's guess at this point.
But, for CNN meteorologist Jacqui Jeras, it is an educated guess.
She joins us again from Atlanta.
Good to see you.
JACQUI JERAS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good to see you, too, Aaron, tonight.
And good evening, everyone.
We actually have a really high amount of confidence in the forecast track of this storm -- not quite so certain about the intensity. And, boy, is the intensity on the rise. This started out as a tropical storm this morning and it just blossomed this evening. It is now up to a Category 2 status, with winds of 100 miles per hour. It's continuing to get stronger.
And I think we could have a category 3, possibly later on tonight or early tomorrow morning. It is moving west-northwesterly around eight miles per hour. Hurricane watches have now been posted for parts of the Yucatan Peninsula, western Cuba, including the Isle of Youth and the Cayman Islands. That means hurricane conditions are possible within 36 hours.
We are expecting this to be kind of shooting through some warmer waters. And that's why we're expecting the storm to continue to strengthen. It is possible that it could make a brief landfall over the Yucatan Peninsula. Right now, the National Hurricane forecast, though, is showing it staying over open water. And that's really the worst-case scenario for the United States at this time, as that will allow the storm to sustain some of its intensity.
Now, some winds are going to be driving the storm system up to the north and to the east. And that is why we think it's going to be hitting Florida. Best guess at this time will be south of Tampa and possibly even as far south as the Florida Keys. It's really too soon to tell exactly where. But our estimate at this time is that it's probably going to happen in South Florida some time late on Saturday -- Aaron.
BROWN: Jacqui, thank you -- Jacqui Jeras.
There will be an 11:00 update from the National Hurricane Center. We will pass that along to you when we get it. It does feel a bit like "Groundhog Day," doesn't it?
Still ahead, Supreme Court nominee Harriet Miers and the fight over abortion -- where does she stand? We know tonight how she feels about abortion. We will tell you about that.
And pulled from the flames -- passersby save a life with a dramatic rescue in California. That's coming up as well from NEWSNIGHT in New York and New Orleans.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Give the blogger Andrew Sullivan credit tonight for the best second line to a headline. About Harriet Miers and where she stands on abortion, his headline tonight reads: "She's Pro-Life." His second line says, "Well, Actually, She is More Than That."
The story centers on a questionnaire the Supreme Court nominee answered 16 years ago. So, is this really a big deal, as our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin believes, or is it something else? You will hear from Mr. Toobin in a moment.
First, CNN's ed henry.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
ED HENRY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Senator Arlen Specter is growing frustrated that Harriet Miers' nomination is getting bogged down.
SEN. ARLEN SPECTER (R-PA), CHAIRMAN OF THE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: I'm becoming more and more concerned that Harriet Miers is being tried in the media.
HENRY: The latest blowup over abortion -- the White House gave Specter's committee documents, including a questionnaire Miers filled out in 1989 while running for Dallas City Council, in which she supported a constitutional ban on abortion. Some White House allies are circulating the document to convince restless Republicans she will support their agenda. That mission became more critical after Specter said Miers privately told him, a key Supreme Court decision, the underpinning for legalized abortion, was rightly decided. Miers claims Specter misunderstood her, though the senator stands behind his version and refused a White House request for a correction.
SPECTER: It seemed to me that the best course is to accept her view and to defer getting into it any more deeply until the hearing.
HENRY: Even as Miers' allies try to shore up conservative support, they angered Democrats, like Dianne Feinstein, who charged the questionnaire raises -- quote -- "very serious concerns about whether Miers will be biased on the abortion issue."
(on camera): Democrat Chuck Schumer said that, after all the back-and-forth, senators in both parties are more confused than ever about exactly where Harriet Miers stands on abortion.
Ed Henry, CNN, Capitol Hill.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: So, now our senior legal analyst, Jeffrey Toobin. We spoke with Jeffrey a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Well, poor Ms. Miers. It seems she can't please anyone. Now we have this -- this questionnaire that -- that she fills out when she is down in Texas. It's very clear that she would, at that point, have supported a constitutional amendment that would ban abortion in the case -- except in the case of -- of the death of a mother -- it might cause it -- right?
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Exactly.
BROWN: And that she would actually work for such an amendment to be passed. So, she's anti-abortion.
TOOBIN: I -- I mean, I think this is a serious, important disclosure, because, you know, in the first place, we know so little about Harriet Miers' views.
And here is, admittedly, only an one-word answer to a questionnaire. But, you know, she stakes out a position that is to the right of President Bush, to the right of Robert Bork, to the right of people who want to overturn Roe vs. Wade. They want to amend the Constitution so that nobody can get an abortion, not return the issue to the states.
BROWN: But that's what I think people may have -- may miss here, is that, even if Roe were overturned, there are a number of states -- I'm not sure how many -- a hand -- actually, it's only a handful, though, who have pass laws allowing abortion. Washington state has. New York state has. I'm not sure what others have. So, abortion itself wouldn't be illegal. It would just be left to the states.
TOOBIN: If -- if Roe v. Wade is overturned, in New York, California, most of the blue states, no difference. The -- the law would remain exactly the same. If the Human Life Amendment passed, abortion would be illegal across the whole country.
BROWN: All right. OK. So, here's my cynical take on all of this, because I haven't done this yet today. It's an easy thing to say yes to. It makes the anti-abortion side happy. And the fact is, it will never be a constitutional amendment. There are not enough states to ratify it.
TOOBIN: Well, that -- that may be. But, you know, the issue is not the future of the constitutional amendment.
The issue is, what does Harriet Miers think and what kind of justice will she be on the Supreme Court? Now, obviously, she was running for Dallas City Council, not Supreme Court there. So, we don't know how that would affect her judicial philosophy. But, come on. You get a pretty good sense.
BROWN: Well, does it also -- does it in any way -- I'm looking for an out for her here -- does it in any way suggest that she believes the Constitution, as written, allows for the right of abortion?
TOOBIN: You -- you could make that argument.
But I don't think a lot of pro-life politicians think Roe v. Wade is correctly decided, but they just -- so, that's why they have to overturn -- they have to amend the Constitution. I mean, that is the questionnaire of someone who is committed, at least in 1989, to making abortion illegal in the United States.
And, you know, she may be on the Supreme Court and may confound expectations and vote to uphold Roe v. Wade. But I would think some of the conservatives who are worried about her would be reassured by that questionnaire. And some of the liberals who are sort of, you know, waiting and seeing would be concerned.
BROWN: Do you ever feel like, sometimes, the only issue that we care about, where Supreme Court justices are concerned, is abortion?
TOOBIN: You know, it -- it is -- it didn't used to be that way.
BROWN: I know.
TOOBIN: But, since Robert Bork, you know, we -- we talk about federal law and jurists. And it always comes back to abortion and -- and code words for abortion, like right to privacy Griswold. But it's all -- all it means is abortion.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: Time to check in on the other news this evening.
For that, we turn to Christi Paul in Atlanta.
Hey, Christi.
CHRISTI PAUL, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Anderson. Good to see you.
Today, it was Baltimore's turn at first to be concerned by and then to shrug off a terrorist threat. In New York, a couple of weeks ago, of course, the subways were said to be the target. Well, in Baltimore, earlier this afternoon, two tunnels were closed, after word that explosives might be trucked into them. There was a major traffic jam, needless to say. And, then, two hours later, the all-clear was sounded.
In 27 states, the Virgin Islands and the District of Columbia, people are going Powerball mad. The jackpot in that drawing currently stands at $340 million. Safe to say there's an awful lot of daydreaming going on around the country just now.
Also, this was the desperate scene in Sun Valley, California, yesterday, as a car burst into flames with a man still inside it. You can see there, bystanders pitched in to pull him free.
And there was some heavy lifting here in Atlanta. Two beluga whales came back down to earth -- back down to water, actually -- after having been rescued from an amusement park in Mexico, from which they were flown more than 1,300 miles by a UPS jet. We are hoping they got better than retail per-pound rate.
Anderson, good to see you back in the hustle and bustle of New Orleans. Good to see that happening.
COOPER: Yes. It's nice to see some hustle and bustle.
I just want to show you a wide shot here on Bourbon Street. We are at the corner of Bourbon and Conti, an interesting sight, though. There are M.P.s, military M.P.s That's because there are a lot of off-duty military officers here, National Guard troops. The M.P.s are just keeping an eye on them.
One of them handed me a piece of paper. His name is Sergeant Russell Deerman (ph). He's been here for -- for more than a month. He wanted me to say hi to his wife and children, Christina Hunter (ph) and Jayden (ph), back in Anacoco, Louisiana. He misses you all.
When NEWSNIGHT continues, New Orleans nearly two months after Katrina -- some places are getting close to normal. Others are far from it. We will show you the city's progress since the storm.
Also tonight, an exclusive interview with Daniel Horowitz, the attorney whose wife was murdered. You will hear what he has to say.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anderson.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back.
We are live in the historic French Quarter of New Orleans. If we make it to midnight and no one does anything inappropriate, I will be very happy and relieved.
Judging from all the people here tonight, it's hard to believe that, seven weeks ago, Hurricane Katrina left this city almost completely under water and in total chaos. The French Quarter was spared the flooding. But this image you see tonight is deceiving. New Orleans is far from normal and it is still picking up the pieces, literally, and trying to recover from near total destruction.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right. (INAUDIBLE)
COOPER (voice-over): At first glance, it appears New Orleans is back in business. Bourbon Street is open. There's bars and beads and street-side serenades.
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's still dirty and stinky, but it's still New Orleans, man.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That's what we love about it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's still good.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER (on camera): That's what...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The drunker you are, the less you smell.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still be you. Still be...
COOPER (voice-over): First glances, however, can be deceiving. For the most part, Bourbon Street's visitors aren't really tourists. They're people working in town, involved with the cleanup effort.
They come to the French Quarter on their days off, because it's just about the only place to go.
Brian (ph) works for Home Depot. He just arrived today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it looks pretty good. I mean, I'm surprised that it looks as good as it does.
COOPER: Travel a few miles away from the French Quarter, however, and things don't look quite so good.
In the Lower Ninth Ward, you will find nothing but mud-cracked concrete, damaged homes, personal possessions baking in the sun. In the days after Katrina, this is what the Lower Ninth Ward looked like, flooded streets, dogs in trees, bodies floating in the water. (on camera): It is actually surprising how little things have changed in the Lower Ninth Ward. I mean, the water has gone. Before, you could only get to an area like this by boat. And -- and -- and the roads have been cleared, so cars can -- can come and go.
But, for the most part, the -- the houses remain untouched. They have been searched. The bodies have been removed. But all the debris remains. It's completely uninhabitable.
(voice-over): Some residents are able to return for short visits. But there's little left they can reclaim. They hope the city will rebuild.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have a long culture from the rest of the city. OK? And, it's a close-knit community. And we love each other down here.
COOPER (on camera): And you want to see that reborn?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. We want to see that reborn.
COOPER (voice-over): Across town in a neighborhood of Lakeview, a survey crew inspects the damaged levee. Nearby, Cathy King (ph) inspects her damaged home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm kind of grieving the house. I'm trying to let go of it. All the things we lost. You've got to let go and it is taking me a while.
COOPER: She found her cat but can take little else. She plans to move away and never return.
Back on Bourbon Street, they hope tourists return soon. The city desperately needs money. All it has now are hopes and street side daydreams.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: And of course, a different scene here at night, a very active Bourbon Street, again, it is people involved in the relief and the recovery effort.
When we return, a CNN exclusive. The criminal defense attorney who came home to a terrible crime, the worst crime imaginable, his wife, the victim. He tells his story for the first time to Nancy Grace.
And later, did you think you'd see the day? Saddam Hussein about to go to trial.
A break first. From New Orleans and New York and around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back to Bourbon Street near the witching hour. A lot of people starting to spill out into the streets. We have a lot to cover tonight in the program. Let's check what's happening right now at this moment.
Saddam Hussein's lawyer says he will request a three-month delay in the highly anticipated trial that begins in just a few hours. He says he was only informed of the trial date 20 days ago and needs more time to prepare. The trial will be held in Baghdad's heavily fortified Green Zone and will be broadcast worldwide.
Wilma is now a Category 2 hurricane with winds reaching 100 miles per hour. It's drenched the Caribbean coast off Honduras today, expected to pick up steam and may become a Category 4 storm, oy, by the time it crosses into the Gulf of Mexico. Landfall is expected on Saturday. The target, most probably, South Florida.
In Taunton, Massachusetts, fears are rising. Water continues to pour through a 173-year-old wooden dam. Officials say they're monitoring the situation minute by minute and are asking everyone in its path to get out. If the dam does break, as much as six feet of water could swamp the downtown area.
And a gold Rolex watch fetches $120,000 at an auction today. This is no ordinary Rolex. It was a special gift purportedly from Marilyn Monroe to President John F. Kennedy on his birthday in 1962. The Rolex is inscribed: "Jack, with love, as always, from Marilyn."
Quite an expensive gift there, Aaron. And, Aaron, I know you wish you were down here on Bourbon Street.
BROWN: I do.
COOPER: But the curfew is at 2:00 a.m., so you're not going to be able to get down here in time after the show.
BROWN: I just want to know, did you just say "oy"?
COOPER: I did say "oy," yes.
BROWN: That's my line. Thank you.
COOPER: OK.
BROWN: Thank you.
Three days after the wife of a prominent criminal defense attorney was found dead, the investigation according to authorities remains wide open. Here's what we know tonight. Daniel Horowitz found the body of his wife, Pamela Vitale, on Saturday. Police say she was beaten to death. No one is under arrest. No one in custody.
Ms. Vitale's body was found in the trailer where the couple was living while their home in the east part of the Oakland, the hills there, was under construction. And there was also this, at the time of the murder, Horowitz was representing a woman accused of killing her millionaire husband. The judge hearing that case has declared a mistrial. Mr. Horowitz is a regular contributor to CNN. Nancy Grace knows him well, talked with him earlier. He began by describing the moment he found his wife.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANIEL HOROWITZ, WIFE BLUDGEONED TO DEATH: I ran out, and then...
NANCY GRACE, HOST, "NANCY GRACE": Ran out to where?
HOROWITZ: Just to the front door, and I touched her neck again just to be sure. And then I saw her hand, and I just knew from what I know that she wasn't alive. And then I just know -- and then I peeled (ph) out my phone and I knew I had to call the police and tell them, so I dialed the regular police number.
And then I was just with her, and I just -- I don't know exactly what I said, between -- you know, you scream, you cry. But I know I just basically sat with her and I just told her, I love you, and, you're beautiful, and you know, just whatever things you say to somebody you love, because to me, at that point, all that was there was the person I love. I mean, it didn't matter anymore, you know, what I -- what was around her or the horror. I had just so much time with Pamela, so I just looked at her face and it was beautiful.
GRACE: When police came, Daniel, what did they want from you?
HOROWITZ: At first, they just wanted me to just be OK. And they just sat me in the back of the police car, and I just called my family. And when I wanted them, I'd knock on the window and just try to tell them things. But I don't really remember what I told them.
GRACE: Knock on the car window?
HOROWITZ: Yes. Then they'd come over.
GRACE: Did you stay there while they processed the scene?
HOROWITZ: They didn't let me see anything. I was far back. I mean, they protected me from that. And then there was so many police cars. They responded -- they did -- Nancy, they sent more police than I've ever seen. And then they took me to the police station. And, I mean, they were very kind to me. They put me in they room where they put children who've been hurt, and they watched me to make sure I didn't try to kill myself, which I wasn't going to do, but they still watched me.
GRACE: These...
HOROWITZ: Not in the room, but...
GRACE: ... days have passed now, what has gone through your head? What do you want to do now?
HOROWITZ: Sort of -- you got me in the stage where I'm starting to accept that she's not coming back. Until maybe today, I just couldn't accept that it was real.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Daniel Horowitz, we'll have more of the interview in the second hour of NEWSNIGHT tonight.
Still to come, if somebody told you a secret, would you remember their name? Judy Miller says she doesn't. We'll ask one of her lawyers how this can possibly be. And we'll hear from Arianna Huffington who has got some pretty firm ideas where that's concerned.
We'll take a break first. Around the country and around the world, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Judith Miller today defended her decision to go to jail to protect her source in the Plame matter. Ms. Miller called for a federal shield law to protect reporters from being called before grand juries. She said a lot, in fact, in the speech to the Society of Professional Journalists in Las Vegas. She did not, however, say a word about who told her the name she wrote in her notebook. She wrote "Valerie Flame." Except to say she couldn't remember who told her.
We asked much the same when we spoke to her lawyer, one of them at least, Floyd Abrams, earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: It's strange, Floyd, honestly, that the testimony and the events over the weekend, The Times reporting Judy's account, seemed to have raised an awful lot of questions. In her notebook, there's a reference to "Valerie Flame." And she's not sure who told her that. And I've got to tell you, that's hard to imagine.
FLOYD ABRAMS, JUDITH MILLER'S ATTORNEY: Why is that?
BROWN: Because she is...
ABRAMS: It was not the center of her life then. And "Valerie Flame," the nonexistent person under that name, you know, was nothing then.
BROWN: But I think it is raised -- it raises questions in peoples' mind about, A, whether she is saying -- telling everything she knows.
ABRAMS: Well, we haven't heard that from the special counsel. I mean, what we're hearing is elements in the press are outdoing the special counsel by far and becoming mini-prosecutors. And instead of focusing on the people, you know, who are -- who might be indicted, who might be charged with serious crimes, there's a quite concentrated effort to really, you know, bring down Judy.
BROWN: Well, there absolutely is that and a lot of it is coming, it seems to me -- I'm not sure I would characterize quite that way, but it is coming from inside The Times itself.
ABRAMS: Some of it is.
BROWN: There seems to be a lot of animosity within The Times about Judy. What is that about?
ABRAMS: Look, I'm just a poor Wall Street lawyer.
BROWN: Yes, right. And I'm just a cable anchor.
(LAUGHTER)
ABRAMS: Look, some of it is personal. Some of it is political and personal. Political in the sense that there was a lot of anger by some people at The Times, some of her reporting on weapons of mass destruction. And a lot of people who care a lot about that issue, not just at The Times, but around the country, were very angry at her because of her reporting. She's also very tough.
BROWN: Clearly, there is another source here. There has to be another source. If she is being truthful, and I accept that she is, on "Valerie Flame," I didn't get it from Mr. Libby, then there has to be another source, doesn't there?
ABRAMS: My understanding is that what she said was that she didn't know who she got it from. Not that it didn't come from Libby, but that she couldn't say where it came from.
BROWN: Do you believe that they were trying to shape her testimony? Were they trying to steer her away from anything that would have been damaging to him or is that just grossly oversimplified?
ABRAMS: There was a letter later on very recently which was, you know, sort of suggestive of the interpretation that you're offering. That is to say, a letter from Mr. Libby that Judy said in effect, look, if you really want me to talk, give me a call, personally.
BROWN: Right.
ABRAMS: Call me up. Write me. Talk to me. Don't have your lawyer talk to my lawyer. We know each other. So he called her up and he wrote her a letter. And it certainly is true that the letter is filled with language saying, in effect, look, you know that there's nothing incriminating. You know I didn't say anything incriminating. All the other reporters have testified that I didn't say anything incriminating. What was it, an effort to remind her or persuade her or lead her? I don't know. But, you know, it probably wasn't a very smart thing for Mr. Libby to put in that way.
BROWN: How damaged is she, do you think?
ABRAMS: Look, she has taken huge hits both in the article published by the paper and in other articles...
BROWN: Right. If you go back to... ABRAMS: ... published elsewhere. She's getting from some people no credit at all that she stayed in jail longer than any journalist in American history. No credit for fighting the fight. No reference to the First Amendment anymore, as if that had nothing to do with anything. I think she'll overcome this.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Floyd Abrams. She has taken, he said, some huge hits. Some of them delivered by Arianna Huffington, she's a writer and a blogger and a founder of The Huffington Post. She has been going to town on this one. We're always pleased to have her with us. It's been a while.
Nice to see you.
ARIANNA HUFFINGTON, THE HUFFINGTON POST: Thank you.
BROWN: Mr. Abrams makes -- there's lots to talk about -- where Judy is concerned, but one of the points he makes is look, we ought not lose sight of the fact that on an important principle, the protection of the source, she did time, 85 days. Do you think maybe you have lost sight of that?
HUFFINGTON: No. Not at all, Aaron. Really, the First Amendment has nothing to do with what happened here. Remember, even her own paper said that in the end, she made a deal. She made a deal she could have made without going to jail. And there are many journalists around the world who go to jail and they can't make a deal. So in a way, it diminishes them.
She could have asked her lawyer to ask Mr. Libby to call her long before she did. In the end, that's exactly what happened. Bob Bennett called Libby's lawyer. Libby sent a letter. He called Judy. She's out of jail.
There was no reason for this martyrdom. There was no reason for The New York Times to spend millions of dollars defending her at a time when they're in the middle of major cutbacks that's being very resented from within the paper. And there was no reason to postpone the reckoning -- the moment of reckoning about her reporting in the lead-up to the war which is intricately related with Plamegate.
BROWN: All right. Let's -- which is the logical place this has to go. And the question it seems to me, a lot of the animosity that's being directed towards Ms. Miller, a lot of the hits she's taken, some of them coming from in the paper but a lot of them just simply coming from the left, from people on the left, people opposed to the war, have to do with what was clearly flawed reporting leading up to the war, right?
HUFFINGTON: Aaron, I don't think it has nothing to do with the left. Some of the greatest opponents of this war are not on the left. They're conservative congressmen, they're Bill Buckley, they're Chuck Hagel in the Senate. There are people all around this country, including over 60 percent of ordinary Americans who are opposed to this war and who are beginning to recognize that we were misled into the war, we were misled by the administration, and the administration through the creation of this group that Fitzgerald is targeting it appears, the White House Iraq Group, marketed this war including through Judy Miller and The New York Times.
BROWN: Arianna, all I would say on that, and maybe we'll never agree on this, is that people who normally -- people on the left who normally would have been supportive of a reporter protecting her source are not supportive of Ms. Miller because they see this as a political story and they don't see her as having taken a stand to protect a source. And I think that's dangerous a little bit when we start making judgments about the First Amendment based on our politics.
HUFFINGTON: Aaron, first of all, with the greatest respect, if you believe Judy Miller's first-person account in The New York Times, she went to jail to protect a source she cannot recall. That's what she is saying. That she cannot recall who gave her the name "Valerie Flame" and that that name was written in a different part of the notebook which she discovered rather belatedly in her office in The New York Times. And it was not written in the same part as her conversation with Scooter Libby.
So, what source was she protecting by going to jail?
BROWN: Well, she's clearly -- again, respectfully -- as we both do, we respectfully disagree on this. She is clearly protecting Mr. Libby. She said she protected Mr. Libby all along. The testimony only dealt with Mr. Libby. I have a hard time understanding where the "Valerie Flame" things come from. I've got to admit that stumps me on this one, too. But there is a principle involved about protecting the source. And, all I'm saying is we ought not lose sight of it.
HUFFINGTON: Well, then, Aaron, at what point does this principle stop being a principle? At what point do you cut a deal? None of that makes any sense. But I would like us not to lose sight of the larger point here, which is what made the most respected newspaper in the country, the paper of record, through Judy Miller, buy into the propaganda coming out of the White House that misled this country to a war?
This is really a critical issue. And I hope that the special prosecutor is going to shed some light into it through the indictments that it appears are coming down.
BROWN: Without buying all those adjectives, I hope the special prosecutor does that, too. It's good to see you. Thank you.
HUFFINGTON: Good to see you.
BROWN: Thank you very much.
Up next, he deals with death every day. Fortunately, he has a second life. We'll hear from and listen to the coroner known as "Dr. Jazz." Where else but NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: And welcome back, live from Bourbon Street. It has been nearly two months and people are slowly returning home to face Katrina's leftovers. The Big Easy always had its music through the good times and the bad. And that has not changed. For one person who has been dealing with a lot of the bad lately, the music has been somewhat of a lifesaver.
Here's CNN's Gary Tuchman.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): He loves his hometown.
DR. FRANK MINYARD, NEW ORLEANS CORONER (singing): Do you know what it means to miss New Orleans? I miss it each night and day.
TUCHMAN: Singing helps Frank Minyard stay calm and focused in a very stressful job. He's the coroner of New Orleans, in charge of the autopsies of more than 1,000 victims who have been brought to this heavily secured temporary morgue in Saint Gabriel, Louisiana. Dr. Minyard has had the job this elected job for 31 years and knows many of these victims.
MINYARD: One friend of mine went back to the city, saw the total destruction of his house and his neighborhood and he committed suicide.
TUCHMAN (on camera): And you saw him inside the morgue here?
MINYARD: I saw him and it was very, very difficult.
TUCHMAN (voice-over): It's also been difficult processing the victims because many morgue workers were missing and there was no telephone service. But that situation has now improved. Frank Minyard is not only known as the city's longtime coroner...
(on camera): What is your nickname?
MINYARD: "Dr. Jazz."
TUCHMAN (voice-over): Dr. Jazz plays the trumpet, the 76-year- old is part of a group that performs regularly at one of New Orleans' famous venues, Preservation Hall. He gained musical fame playing this song on a New Orleans radio show in the late '60s.
MINYARD: And all of a sudden, all of my friends, Pete Fountain called up and asked what that was. Al Hirt called up and said he was going to kill himself. He didn't want to be associated with trumpets. Fats Domino called up. All the biggies called the radio station.
TUCHMAN: Dr. Minyard now spends 24 hours a day at the morgue. After seven weeks, he decided the timing was right to play "Do You Know What It Means to Miss New Orleans" to his staff at a morning meeting. MINYARD: I felt good about it. I didn't cry. And the people applauded.
TUCHMAN: As he played, he thought about how New Orleans was before Katrina.
MINYARD: We have a spirit that is different from everybody else. We will rebuild. We'll make it better. It might even be the city of the future with a past.
TUCHMAN: He may not have cried in the meeting, but he had tears this time.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TUCHMAN: Dr. Minyard is going to run for the ninth term as coroner this February. And a lot of people here, Anderson, in New Orleans, know when you elect Dr. Jazz as coroner, you are also getting a trumpeter.
COOPER: It's incredible, though, that, I mean, he didn't have a fax machine or a phone and that's what held up a lot of these autopsies. Are things better now?
TUCHMAN: The problem was the funeral parlors could not call in. Now he says things are almost totally back to normal and about 20 bodies a day going to the relatives.
COOPER: All right. Gary Tuchman, thanks. Obviously bringing a lot of relief to a lot of families.
Still to come tonight on NEWSNIGHT, a dam about to burst could happen any moment. We're live at the scene with the latest.
Also, in a country with more cars than drivers, what happens when the high cost of gas leads to new methods to commute?
And long odds and big money. The frenzied rush to win big in the $340 million Powerball lottery.
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