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CNN Newsnight Aaron Brown
Will Hurricane Wilma Strike Florida?; Saddam Hussein Appears in Court; Interview With Former FBI Director Louis Freeh
Aired October 19, 2005 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AARON BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening again, everyone.
Much to do tonight: a hurricane named Wilma, a tyrant named Saddam, a White House under fire -- as we said, much to do.
We begin in New Orleans.
Anderson, good evening.
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Aaron, thanks very much. Good evening to you.
Good evening, everyone.
I'm in the Lakeview section of New Orleans. And, unlike the French Quarter, where I was last night, this area is far from recovered. It really hasn't even begun. -- the devastation from Katrina still everywhere to see. We will show it to you shortly. The last time we were here, just a few weeks ago, we had questions.
We have returned for the answers, for accountability, tonight.
That is coming up, but, first, here's what happening at this moment.
A defiant Saddam Hussein pleaded not guilty in a Baghdad courtroom today. He and seven other defendants are charged with the execution of more than 140 people. The former Iraqi dictator verbally clashed with the tribunal, but he even got into a scuffle with his guards.
An arrest warrant for a U.S. congressman -- today, a Texas court issued the warrant for Representative Tom DeLay. The former House majority leader is charged with criminal conspiracy and money- laundering. DeLay calls the charges politically based.
Frank testimony on Capitol Hill. Homeland Security Director Michael Chertoff said state officials are not to blame for the Katrina response. Chertoff rebutted former FEMA Chief Michael Brown's contention that Louisiana officials were dysfunctional. He also said he had difficulty getting in touch with Brown the day after the storm hit.
And the death toll from October 8's catastrophic South Asia earthquake has soared to 79,000 -- 79,000 people. It is one of the deadliest quakes in modern times. Most of the victims were in Pakistan, where hundreds of buildings were destroyed.
We are also following that developing story, Hurricane Wilma. Today, it exploded into a Category 5 storm, the most powerful hurricane ever recorded. And it could hit Florida as early as this weekend.
CNN severe weather expert, Chad Myers, is tracking Wilma from Atlanta.
Chad, just how powerful are we talking about right now?
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: We went to bed last night, Anderson. It was a tropical storm. And I got to work this morning, and it was 175 miles per hour.
Now, the good news is, it hasn't hit anything, because it can't get that strong if it's around or over land. It has been over water the entire time. The waves and the surge could be very large, though, and winds as well, from the Cayman Islands, right up to Cuba. And notice the trajectory, right on into the Cozumel and Cancun area, before it possibly makes a right-hand turn towards the United States and parts of Florida.
Look at the wobbles in the past couple of frames here, up and down and up and down. This storm cannot decide whether it wants to go north or go south. The Hurricane Center has looked at all the models. They are saying to the northwest as a Category 5 and then hitting or brushing Cancun as a four, and then turning to the right and actually making landfall over Florida as a Category 3 storm.
There it goes, 140, losing a little strength -- but, then, even by about 6:00 Saturday night, if it does make landfall, right there along the line. And we tell you to look at the cone, because the cone even includes -- by Monday, into Tuesday, it includes New England and Rhode Island and the cape. This thing could actually turn to the left a little bit as it comes up into the Atlantic Ocean.
So, there's a lot still to go with the storm. It still could turn a little bit further to the right. And, if that happens, where you have these simulations, Aaron, some of these simulations take it right into the Yucatan, and then back out again. And many of them, though, take it right over South Florida. There's a bunch of them right there behind me -- back to you.
BROWN: Chad, thank you very much. We will check back with you as the night goes on and keep an eye on the hurricane.
Mostly, a new story is about what happened. But, sometimes, a story is simply that something happened at all. And so it is tonight. Saddam Hussein, who once ruled a huge, powerful and wealthy country with the proverbial iron fist, sat in a courtroom today in front of TV cameras, his country men and women, in front of the world, the beginning of what seems a certain trip to the gallows.
We can argue about the war or how it's been conducted. We can argue about a lot. But we can't argue that, in that courtroom today, a bad man began to face justice.
We have two reports tonight, beginning with our chief international correspondent, Christiane Amanpour.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Saddam Hussein shuffled slowly as he was escorted into the court, the last defendant to appear.
Among his seven co-defendants was his half-brother, Barzan Al Tikriti, the feared former head of Iraqi secret intelligence. There was also former Vice President Taha Yasin Ramadan, almost unrecognizable out of his regime regalia. The co-defendants all wore informal Arab dress and plastic sandals -- not so, Saddam Hussein. In a suit, he likes to present a more presidential figure, which he believes he still is.
SADDAM HUSSEIN, FORMER IRAQI LEADER (through translator): Excuse me. I -- I did not say former, no. I said I'm the president of the Republic of Iraq.
AMANPOUR: Defiance -- some might say delusions -- aside, to this reporter, who witnessed his first court hearing 15 months ago, today, Saddam seems more demoralized, more tired, weaker.
Still, Saddam will not go meekly. He refused to recognize the court's jurisdiction. He sat when all others stood as the judge entered the court. And he stayed seated when the judge asked him to enter his plea.
HUSSEIN (through translator): I said what I said. And I'm not guilty.
AMANPOUR: Innocent, Saddam said, of ordering 143 Shiite men from the village of Dujail executed after a botched assassination attempt 23 years ago.
Innocent, said co-defendant Awad Haman al-Bander, who was chief of the revolutionary court that sentenced them to death.
Innocent, said each of the eight men in the dock.
(on camera): One of the rare moments of color came during a recess, when the cameras were off. Saddam Hussein turned to his co- defendants and started to smile and chat with them. He hadn't seen any of his former colleagues since he was captured nearly two years ago.
When he tried to leave the courtroom briefly during that recess, immediately, four guards came and tried to assist him out, holding onto his arms. He refused to have them touch them. He basically stared them down and waited until they left him alone. Eventually, he walked out unassisted.
(voice-over): Defendants, the chief prosecutor and defense lawyers, kept getting up to be heard. And there was a sense that legal procedure in this first Iraqi trial of its kind still needs to be ironed out.
RICHARD DICKER, HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH: It seemed as if there were no ground rules that anybody had agreed on. And it was almost as if anything goes. It's essential that this tribunal get it right.
AMANPOUR: But, just seeing Saddam facing trial for all the agony he inflicted on his people, for many, made up for the procedural pitfalls.
His next date with justice, November 28, when the trial resumes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
AMANPOUR: And it turns out, we learned from legal experts, that the postponement due to the fact that the actual law that was designed, the new designed to allow this tribunal to stand and Saddam to be tried, has not been signed by the current president, nor has it been published in the "Iraqi Legal Gazette."
That's why they have had this postponement, for the signing, the publishing, and then for the 30 days for the law to take effect. That would take it to November 28 -- Aaron.
BROWN: Do you get the feeling this is going to be a circus?
AMANPOUR: You know, perhaps, it was on the first day. There were huge numbers of problems, as you saw, with legal proceedings, but also with the whole broadcasting, audiovisual technical problems, and lots of different people trying to get in on all the acts.
They have got 45 days to -- to iron it out. And, hopefully, they will do so. But, as the expert said, it has to be seen to be fair and honest and -- and a proper trial.
BROWN: And was -- was there in the courtroom at all today an American presence? Are there American guards? Is there any sense of the Americans there?
AMANPOUR: Oh, a very large sense that the Americans are there, even though they claim and maintain that this is an Iraqi special tribunal. All the security was done by U.S. marshals, very, very strict security. And there were a lot of observers from the American side, State Department and Justice Department and -- and others. But the actual legal proceedings inside was -- was -- were run by Iraqis.
BROWN: Christiane, thank you -- Christiane Amanpour tonight in Baghdad.
And, as she mentioned, millions of Iraqis watched the proceedings today. What they saw when they watched, we can only guess.
For a sampling of what they had to say, here's our senior international correspondent, Nic Robertson.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): At work, in his printing shop, Abdul Karim (ph) has been closely following Saddam Hussein's day in court.
"I'm watching, because he is our former president that we love," he says. "We won't accept that anyone gives him an unjust trial."
Abdul (ph) and his cousin Hamid (ph), who jointly run the store, are Sunni Muslims, like Hussein. Abdul (ph) wants Hussein back in power.
"I don't agree with my cousin," Hamid (ph) says. "Saddam should not rule again. The world is changing. There are better men than him, those that can ensure equality between Sunni and Shia." Both cousins agree, however, the trial is unjust.
"They have still not accused him," he says. "But it is obvious the court is flawed, because the government is not legal. And, therefore, the court is illegal, too."
At a nearby tea shop in the same predominantly Sunni neighborhood, in this mixed city, others had foregone the trial to go earn a living.
"I know it's the day," he says, "but I have been too busy working."
But, even here, there was anger at what they see as injustice.
"An American kills 10 Iraqis," he complains, "and he is not held accountable or tried."
(on camera): Saddam Hussein once had a lot of support in this city. A well-known photograph of him holding a gun on the balcony of a government building was taken here. But a rally in his support, rumored to coincide with the start of the trial, failed to materialize.
(voice-over): Late afternoon, and the announcement of the 40-day postponement, Shia Muslims who had been following the trial at home, were out relaxing, date farmer Nathan Hassan (ph) among them.
"I saw this criminal in a cage," he says. "I wanted to see this a long time ago. He should not even been tried. He should just stay in the cage until he dies."
Farmer Fala Hasan (ph) and his father echoing that sentiment.
"He should be killed as soon as possible," Fala (ph) says, "to put an end to all the terrorist violence." Tears well up in his father's eyes, as he recalls the recent death of his nephew, lining up to get a job at a police station.
It seems passions on both sides of the sectarian divide are thrown into sharper focus by the trial, hinting at more problems ahead.
Nic Robertson, CNN, Baquba, Iraq.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still ahead tonight, is it politics or fact-finding? Democrats now want details of a conversation between the president and Karl Rove in the CIA leaked identity case. We have the latest coming up.
And, later, Hurricane Katrina leveled his city. Now he is trying to bring it back. But is the mayor of New Orleans, Ray Nagin, up to the task?
We will see.
We will break, too. This is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: There comes a moment in any major Washington scandal when the principals get scared, their opponents grow bolder, and people who might otherwise fear retaliation sense blood in the water.
What this means is, just about everybody starts leaking. In the CIA leak affair linked to the president's man Karl Rove, with indictments potentially just around the corner, that moment seems to be now. Stories, intriguing stories, are emerging.
One report tonight says Mr. Rove told the grand jury that he and vice presidential chief of staff Scooter Libby discussed what each told reporters about Valerie Plame in the days before her job at the CIA was outed. That's an AP, Associated Press, report tonight, citing people familiar with Mr. Rove's testimony.
The other report tonight comes close to answering both the question and the scandal cliche, not what did the president know, not precisely, but what did he know?
Reporting from the White House tonight, CNN's Dana Bash.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DANA BASH, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Education, that's what the president invited reporters in to talk about.
(CROSSTALK)
QUESTION: (OFF-MIKE) Karl Rove...
(CROSSTALK)
BASH: Reporters wanted to ask about Karl Rove. No answer, as cameras were escorted out. The question this day is about this article, saying the president rebuked Rove two years ago for his role in the Valerie Plame affair.
SCOTT MCCLELLAN, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I've seen a lot of conflicting reports, and we're just not going to comment any further...
(CROSSTALK)
MCCLELLAN: ... on an ongoing investigation.
BASH: Behind the scenes, senior Bush aides worked to squash the story. One called it total baloney. But a source familiar with internal White House political discussions tells CNN, there's no question the president made clear to Rove he's disappointed in what became a bungled attempt to shape a press story about Iraq WMD.
It's the nature of their relationship and the Bush style. This is a president who gets upset when there's a typo in a memo, the source said. Over the summer, the White House choreographed pictures of Bush and Rove together, a show of support -- not recently. Rove's been largely out of public view, even canceling some events.
GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The architect, Karl Rove.
BASH: Senior Bush aides say there's no question Rove and other key subjects in the leak investigation are preparing for the possibility of stepping aside, if indicted. One top official said of Rove; "He's a planner. It's his nature."
Aides deny having strategy sessions on who would replace Rove or anyone else, if need be, but one source close to the White House says they're likely happening at the highest levels.
How does all this affect the mood here? One veteran of White House scandals calls it torture.
LANNY DAVIS, FORMER CLINTON WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: It's a scary sensation to know that there's an unaccountable, unmanageable power that can literally destroy lives, political fortunes. And that's the sensation, total lack of control or ability to manage.
BASH: Democrats watching from afar call all this ironic, since Mr. Bush was elected after eight years of Clinton, promising to change the culture in Washington.
BUSH: Finally, a leader must uphold the honor and the dignity of the office to which he had been elected.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BASH: And knowledgeable sources say that Patrick Fitzgerald, the special prosecutor, doesn't plan announcement in the case this week.
That means that the White House will be in essentially what is a state of suspended animation. They will not find out what will happen until next week. And, I can tell you, Aaron, we heard two years ago the president said no one wants to get to the bottom of this more than he does. Right now, at the White House, I think they actually really believe that.
BROWN: There's just a -- there's a sort of water-torture quality about it all the longer we wait. Do we have any idea? The -- the -- the grand jury ends its term on -- on, what, the 28 of October?
BASH: Correct.
BROWN: So, they have got until the end of the month. Is -- is there any sense of what the timing is and why the timing is?
BASH: No. And that is really one of many $64,000 questions in this story, where we know a lot more about what we don't than what we do know, if you will.
But -- but they're certainly bracing for this. And, as I said, at this point, they have so much on their plate in terms of political troubles, Aaron. I have talked to several aides who said that what they try to do is really just focus on what they can control and -- and -- and what they can do on a day-to-day basis.
And this is the thing that's most out of their control. And they're just waiting to find out what happens, so, essentially, they can move on.
BROWN: Dana, thank you -- Dana Bash in Washington tonight.
Among -- among the other stories that made news of tonight, we go to Atlanta. Christi Paul is there with the headlines today.
Christi, good evening.
CHRISTI PAUL, HEADLINE NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Aaron.
The latest now for you on Hurricane Wilma. Everyone's talking about this. Officials call it -- quote -- "one of the more perplexing storms of this year." Computer models show a number of different projected paths, but some have it turning towards southwestern Florida, possibly coming ashore late Saturday. Wilma remains a powerful Category 5 hurricane, with winds at 160 miles per hour.
Today, it became the most intense Atlantic storm on record.
President Bush invited rock star Bono to lunch at the White House today. Bono is in Washington on a concert tour. The White House says, over lunch, the two resumed a conversation they began at the recent G8 Summit in Scotland. They talked about debt relief, AIDS, malaria and world trade.
And pumps were brought in today to try to move around water that has weakened a wooden dam in Massachusetts. A state of emergency remains in effect downstream in the city of Taunton. More than 2,000 residents have been evacuated. And the fear is that the dam will collapse after recent heavy rains and inundated the city with a wall of water six feet high.
Unfortunately, more rain is in the forecast for them.
And, on a lighter note -- should I say lighter? -- a baby elephant walking somewhat unsteadily at the Indianapolis Zoo. Look at that little guy. The male elephant was born last night, already weighs 200 pounds. The elephant was conceived by artificial insemination. The mother has become the first elephant to deliver two babies conceived this way. Unfortunately, the first died in 2003, at 3 years of age, of an infection.
Zoo officials say the new baby appears to be in good health. And they don't yet have a name for him. So, we will wait and see.
BROWN: Well...
PAUL: Aaron.
BROWN: ... it will give us -- and when they do, that will give us a reason to run the tape again, which is always good.
(LAUGHTER)
PAUL: Yes.
BROWN: Thank you very much.
You saw the mother. I'm not sure know how well we saw the baby there.
Still to come -- kind of a "Babar" moment, though -- did the United States pay attention to terrorism before 9/11? Of course we didn't. The director of the FBI under President Clinton is talking tough now, though. Louis Freeh shares his thoughts when we come back.
There's plenty of blame to go around for the preparedness, or lack thereof, before Hurricane Katrina. The Homeland Security secretary, Michael Chertoff, was on the Hill today, offering a mea culpa of sorts.
We will take a break first.
From New Orleans and Washington and, of course, New York, this is NEWSNIGHT.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: It doesn't take a FBI investigation to see that Louis Freeh, the bureau's former director, has a bit of a thing where his former boss is concerned. The title of his memoir says a lot, "My FBI: Bringing Down the Mafia, Investigating Bill Clinton, and Fighting the War on Terror."
In it, Mr. Freeh charges that, before 9/11, no American president took terrorism seriously enough. That, in itself, is hardly a shocker. But it's the way he says things, especially about President Clinton, that makes the former FBI director news.
We spoke with Mr. Freeh a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: The implication, strong implication, of much of what you wright is that President Clinton's -- how do I want to -- his -- the -- the sort of never-ending investigation into his conduct -- whether it was Whitewater or Lewinsky or whatever -- was an enormous distraction for the bureau. That sounds like an excuse.
LOUIS FREEH, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: Well, that's your characterization, by the way. I don't say that. I don't think it was an enormous distraction for the bureau.
It was an enormous distraction for the country, independent counsels, the Congress of the United States and probably the presidency. What I say in the book is that, you know, we didn't invent those allegations. We didn't spontaneously generate investigations on my boss. It was his course of conduct that required myself, the attorney general, by the way, Janet Reno, many independent counsels and the Congress to spend lots and lots of time and resources investigating his allegations.
BROWN: To what degree does -- did those investigations, if any, impact the ability of the bureau to do all of the things that the -- the FBI is supposed to do, including keeping 11 terrorists out of the country?
FREEH: Yes.
I don't think it -- it interfered with the bureau's mission at all, for a couple of reasons. As you probably know, most of those investigations were not conducted by the FBI. The problem with 9/11, the disaster of 9/11, was, in my view, a very simple proposition. Prior to September 11, the United States did not declare war and take war to its enemy. They were blowing up embassies.
They almost sank an Aegis-class warship in October of 2000. And we were responding by indicting bin Laden. Neither President Bush, nor President Clinton, nor their security advisers put the country on a war footing before September 11. And that is the real story of 9/11.
BROWN: I -- I -- I absolutely agree with that, with the -- that we didn't take -- we as a country and political leaders did not take al Qaeda and the threat al Qaeda posed to the country nearly seriously enough before 9/11.
But, really, the question is, did you take it seriously enough?
FREEH: Absolutely. In addition to...
BROWN: Did the Federal Bureau of Investigation take it seriously enough?
FREEH: Yes. And let me explain for a moment what we did -- a lot of things.
We reorganized the FBI, formed the counterterrorism division in 1999, never had been done before. We brought a series of very dangerous terrorists back to the United States. And the courage and the expertise of young FBI agents did that.
BROWN: Think someone could pull off a 9/11 today?
FREEH: I think the country is smarter. I think, in some areas, we have prepared ourselves better -- airport security, probably 100 times better.
But, you know, you drive up the Jersey Turnpike, as I did on the way here, and you look at a million containers sitting in the Port of Newark...
BROWN: Yes.
FREEH: ... you have got to be concerned. We have got to be a little bit unconfident that we have all the bases covered.
And the problem with -- with a group that's willing to kill themselves to destroy us, you know, they don't need any embassy. They don't need a warship. A soccer field, a mall, where you go with your children on Saturdays, there is a multitude of vulnerable places, and we have to be very concerned about that.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: And that's former FBI Director Louis Freeh.
Sometimes, it's hard to remember, Anderson, a time before 9/11. But there was one.
COOPER: Yes. What -- what was he like to interview?
BROWN: Honestly, he's a bit defensive, in some respects.
I mean, he makes some -- he makes some outrageous -- I don't mean -- I don't mean that, that they're untrue or true. I don't know. But they're outrageous allegations, particularly about Senator -- about President Clinton. And, if you say, "Well, who is the source on this?" he won't tell you. "Was the source in the room?" He won't tell you that.
And he just sort of wants you to accept it. And when you're -- you're talking about a former president, who cannot, I think, come out and defend himself against every allegation that's made against him for the rest of his life, there is, to my thinking, a bit of unfairness in it.
COOPER: Hmm, interesting. And, of course, that is all in his book. And he is on a book tour, right?
BROWN: Yes.
COOPER: I mean, so, we are going to be hearing a lot more from Louis Freeh over the next couple weeks and months...
(CROSSTALK)
BROWN: As often as he can.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: OK.
Aaron, I just want to show you, a little bit, the neighborhood I'm in here in Lakeview, because, you know, yesterday, we were in the French Quarter.
And -- and I don't want to give the perception that New Orleans is back to business and back to normal, because it is not. There are people here with pain in their heart. And -- and you may see people out in -- in the streets reveling and drinking. But there's a lot of loss here, and there's a lot of suffering, still.
And this is the Lakeview section. It's so surreal. I mean, look at this. This is a car somehow ended up here between two homes. And it has just been sitting here now for now more than a month. This entire neighborhood is basically destroyed.
The water line, you can see up here, is the water mark of where it was. And everything is coated with this layer of dirt and dust and just want to walk around and show you -- yes, watch out there. There's -- I mean, there's a window of someone's home. And you come around to someone's home, obviously this home has already been checked. This was checked on September 22nd. There were no bodies found inside.
But look, I mean, this is what -- the levee is just about 100 yards or so that way. When it broke, the water just came this way. This is someone's home. You can still see a closet, there are still clothes hanging in the closet, and there's debris all around. This is a child's toy. Kind of, you know, toy gun I had as a kid. And it is all -- everything is coated with this layer of dust and it is all sort of just sitting out here night after night and it is extremely a very eerie sensation being here in Lakeview.
There's no electricity, there's no homes -- occasionally you'll see people coming by with an insurance adjuster, but it is a very eerie feeling being out here so long after Katrina. We're going to have a lot more from Lakeview later on on NEWSNIGHT.
We're also going to be looking at the Saddam Hussein trial. CNN's Christiane Amanpour was inside the courtroom. Fascinating to see the former dictator, the butcher of Baghdad sitting, facing justice finally after all these years. We will have more on that.
We'll also have more from New Orleans, including an interview with Senator Mary Landrieu, the first time I've talked to her since after Katrina. We talk about the levee system, why it is not being rebuilt bigger and better, as President Bush said it would be. A lot more from Senator Landrieu ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: If there's a thread running through the program tonight, it deals with accountability. For atrocities, for crimes and misdemeanors, bureaucratic mishaps, you name it. In a moment, accountability as it relates to Katrina along with an update on Hurricane Wilma.
First, though, the headlines at this moment. Former Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein was not the most cooperative of defendants as his long-awaited trial got under way in Baghdad today. He quarreled with judges, scuffled with guards. He faces the death penalty if convicted of ordering a mass execution of Shiites after an assassination attempt. The trial was adjourned until late November.
"No excuses, we must rise to the challenge." Those are the words of the U.N. secretary general, Kofi Annan, who today urged member states to do more to help the earthquake victims in South Asia. Relief agencies say thousands of survivors could die. The death tolls range from 42,000 to 79,000, making it one way or the other one of the deadliest quakes of modern times.
Jailed New York Times reporter Judith Miller -- formerly jailed, urged Congress today to pass a federal shield law to protect reporters. The Bush administration opposes such a law. Ms. Miller spent nearly three months in jail for refusing to discuss her sources with federal prosecutors investigating the disclosure of CIA operative Valerie Plame's identity.
Today, the House did pass the so-called "cheeseburger bill," thankfully. It would prohibit people who blame their obesity on eating too much fast food from suing the food industry. Not everyone feels the government should become the food police. James Sensenbrenner, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, quotes a judge who said, "it is not the place of the law to protect people from their own excesses."
That's what's happening at this moment.
What's happening at this moment out in the Atlantic is Hurricane Wilma, the most powerful storm on record. It is heading towards Florida. The whereabouts in Florida and precisely how strong it will be when it gets there is still a bit early to say. Our severe weather expert, Chad Myers, joins us from Atlanta -- Chad.
CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Good evening, Aaron. When I walked in the building this morning, the pressure was 26.05 inches of mercury. Officially, the millibars down to 882, the strongest -- the deepest low pressure system ever recorded. Gulf of Mexico, Caribbean, Atlantic Ocean, any winter storm, any storm, period. Stronger than Andrew, Katrina, Rita, any storm you can think of, Camille, this one was deeper at least for a while.
Right now, it is not quite as deep, we're not seeing the eye quite as well right now. Probably through what we call an eye wall replacement cycle, which means that there are outer eye walls, there are always a number of eye walls in a storm. This one, we think has three right now. The inner one here, then there is an outer one here.
And how did we know that the wind was so strong this morning and the pressure was so deep? Well, a plane flew right through the storm. And as the plane got right to the middle of the eye, and this was only two-and-a-half miles across at the time, the plane dropped what we call a drop sod (ph). That gets all the way down to the water and right before it hits the water, it measures the pressure. And that's how low the pressure was, 882 millibars.
Coming up a little bit, filling in a little bit, not going to be as strong if and when it does hit Florida. There is still a chance, this cone, Aaron, that we talk about, still goes all the way south of Havana. It could miss the U.S. altogether. That's still a possibly. And we hope for that, I guess. But not for the ill will on the people of Cuba.
BROWN: No, but we do hope it misses just the same. When do you think you'll be able to say with certainty what it is going to do or where it is going to hit?
MYERS: Excellent question. We will know for certain what it's going to do when it finally makes that turn. Until it makes the turn, and it's still going northwest right now, it's going to have to stop, turn and kind of go to the north a little bit. As that turn turns to the right, that's when we'll know when the storm is actually going to hit land and if it is.
Here's one of our models -- in-house models that we use. And it's a simulation where it's going to go now. And on many of the models now are right into the Yucatan peninsula, south of Playa del Carmen. There's Cozumel, a very populated tourist area right there.
BROWN: Chad, thank you very much. Chad Myers. We'll be talking to you for the rest of the week, I suspect.
So, Anderson, you got your airline ticket to Florida yet?
COOPER: Sadly, I do, actually. I'm -- the plan right now, and it is one of those things, again, it's a good question that you asked Chad, because, you know, you're trying to figure out, should you go? When should you go? I'm thinking Friday morning I'll probably be on a plane heading to Florida. I certainly hope that is not the case. I hope the whole thing just simply goes away. But I'm afraid that is not going to happen. It looks like it's at least going to go somewhere, Aaron.
You know, Aaron mentioned accountability the top of the segment. And that's really why we're back in New Orleans. And frankly, that's why we're going to continue to come back to New Orleans and continue to stay on the story, to try to get answers to a lot of questions that we had when we left, the same questions we had in those days, those terrible dark days after Katrina. Some of the questions we put to Mary Landrieu, the Democratic senator from Louisiana.
I spoke with her earlier tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: On September 15th, President Bush stood in New Orleans and he said, and I quote, "we'll not just rebuild, we'll build higher and better." As you know, that's not happening with the levees right now. They're being rebuilt to the exact same strength and size that they were before Katrina struck. I know that frustrates you. What's going on?
SEN. MARY LANDRIEU (D), LOUSIANA: Well, Anderson, not only is it not happening with the levees, it's not happening with our hospitals, with our schools, with our highways. It is because this administration does one thing well. It talks. It holds press conferences. But in terms of real delivery, the only deliverables are going to Iraq. And that is the truth. For reconstruction of the schools and hospitals in Iraq.
COOPER: You think they're paying more attention though to rebuilding schools in Iraq than they are to rebuilding New Orleans?
LANDRIEU: Oh, absolutely. I don't think that, I know that because of the pictures on the Web site that show that schools that are being rebuilt, the electricity that is being set up. In fact...
COOPER: But I mean...
LANDRIEU: The Republican leadership, Anderson, right now is crafting yet another supplemental for Iraq that wasn't even asked for. And yet, we continue in the Gulf Coast to ask for help from the federal government. And basically you're told, I'm sorry, we don't have the money.
COOPER: You have come under a lot of fire for the bill that you have proposed -- you and Senator Vitter have proposed, $250 billion for your state. Steve Ellis, a water resources expert at Taxpayers for Common Sense, was quoted in The Washington Post as saying this, he said, "this bill boggles the mind, brazen doesn't begin to describe it, the Louisiana delegation is using Katrina as an excuse to resurrect a laundry of pork projects."
Two hundred fifty billion dollars, that's about $1,900 per American household. Is there pork in this?
LANDRIEU: Well, first of all, Anderson, Steve Ellis is not always correct and on this, he is not. That was not a bill, per se, although we did introduce it. It was a blueprint for action. There are 250 committees of Congress. Our delegation, Democrats and Republicans, came together to say, look, we can't run around to 250 committees and tell you what we need. So we are going to lay this out. You can take it. You can reject it. You can modify it. But at least start with...
COOPER: Well, but in the past -- but in the past, you've said it's probably going to be more than $250 billion. Sounds a little bit now like you're saying, well, we're just kind of throwing that number out. If it's going to be less, that's OK. Are you backing off that or are you standing by? Does your state need $250 billion?
LANDRIEU: Anderson, I am standing by the fact we need a great deal of help. And that there are 250 committees of Congress and there are nine of us. And we laid down the best that we could do within six weeks of the natural disaster happening to say, these are the things that we need.
COOPER: Two of the items in the $250 billion proposal, $35 million for the Louisiana Seafood Promotion and Marketing Board, $25 million for a sugar cane research laboratory that apparently wasn't even finished before Hurricane Katrina came ashore. Are those pork projects?
LANDRIEU: Anderson, if you want to focus on those one or two projects and miss the story, you go on ahead, that's your decision as a journalist. But I'm telling you that the people of Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama, that make up the energy coast of this country need help from this United States government.
We are American taxpayers, black and white, rich and poor. We should not be standing in line behind foreign governments and the people of Iraq. We should be first in line to get help. The big picture is this, we are America's only energy coast. We have prices of energy skyrocketing, gas, and natural gas, and oil.
And if we don't get serious about some help, not just when the federal government, but coordinating with the private sector, the nonprofit, it is only going to get worse. So just stay on focused on that one item and let me -- I'll just keep telling you the truth about what we're doing up here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
COOPER: That was Senator Mary Landrieu earlier today.
Still to come on the program tonight, Katrina testimony on Capitol Hill, homeland security secretary speaks up about who's to blame and why in his opinion. You're watching NEWSNIGHT from New Orleans and New York and around the world.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BROWN: Columbus Circle in New York. Remember Mike Brown, the guy that used to run FEMA, the guy who was taking the hit for the failed federal response to Katrina? Well, Mr. Brown had a boss, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff. And today, Mr. Chertoff had his trip to the woodshed, courtesy of both Democrats and Republicans in Congress.
Here's CNN's Jeanne Meserve.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEANNE MESERVE, CNN HOMELAND SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): If Michael Chertoff thought that firing Mike Brown as head of FEMA would deflect criticism from himself and the Department of Homeland Security, boy, was he wrong.
REP. CYNTHIA MCKINNEY (D), GEORGIA: Mr. Secretary, if the nursing home owners are arrested for negligent homicide, why shouldn't you also be arrested for negligent homicide?
REP. CHRISTOPHER SHAYS (R), CONNECTICUT: You told us that you didn't have the authority to have an evacuation. And it's kind of like Pontius Pilate washing his hands. That's the way it comes across to me.
MESERVE: Calling himself "no hurricane expert," Chertoff said he relied on Mike Brown to be his commander in the field.
REP. STEVE BUYER (R), INDIANA: Well, if all of that's true, why did -- on Tuesday did you have to designate him as the guy in charge?
MICHAEL CHERTOFF, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, the reason I did it...
BUYER: Because it was you. It was you.
MESERVE: Congressman Steve Buyer marched right out of his seat to make Chertoff acknowledge his own responsibility.
BUYER: I know you've seen this.
CHERTOFF: Of course I've seen it. That's right, that's correct. Now...
BUYER: It's you, right?
CHERTOFF: Right.
MESERVE: Chertoff's public line during the Katrina recovery, the federal response effort was going well. But he told the committee he didn't find out about the levee breaks until the day after they occurred, how he sometimes had trouble getting Mike Brown to return his calls, and how he couldn't get answers to some questions then or now.
CHERTOFF: I still don't know the full story about why some things didn't move.
MESERVE: FEMA was overwhelmed by Katrina, Chertoff acknowledged, crippled by outmoded systems for purchasing and distributing aid, and poor planning.
CHERTOFF (on camera): To prevent a replay of the Katrina response, Chertoff says he will create teams to do rapid emergency reconnaissance after catastrophes, and designate in-charge individuals ahead of them. Former FEMA employees say he is reinventing the wheel, that the agency used to do those things when FEMA was a more functional organization.
Jeanne Meserve; CNN, Washington.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BROWN: Still ahead on the program, the mayor of New Orleans from the days after Katrina to tonight. Ray Nagin is making no apologies for his job.
And watching Wilma, 160 mile-an-hour, Category 5 hurricane at last check, could hit American soil by the weekend. A new advisory out in just a few moments. There always seems to be changes with this at the 11:00 hour, so we'll take you live to the weather center for details on that. Much more ahead tonight. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COOPER: Welcome back. We are live in the Lakeview section of New Orleans, an area, a neighborhood, really little changed since the water has been drained, since we were out in this very neighborhood on these very streets just a few weeks ago.
It is one of the many communities here that Mayor Ray Nagin is going to have to figure out what to do with. It is very close to the 17th Street Canal, to the levee breach here that flooded this entire neighborhood. And what he chooses to do with this neighborhood and other neighborhoods like the 9th Ward will determine whether or not really he gets elected, re-elected if he chooses to run again when his term is up.
John King spent some time today with the controversial mayor of New Orleans.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The reopening of the world famous Cafe Du Monde. The famous beignets piled high. Chicory coffee flowing. A jazz trio to mark the big occasion. And when the mayor arrives, a royal welcome, even though it is now four hours after the festivities got under way. Ray Nagin operates on his time, in his way, and makes no apologies.
MAYOR RAY NAGIN, NEW ORLEANS: I'm going to get upset and pissed off, and -- just like you are. I'm only human. And I'm not going the try and be anything but who I am.
KING: Who he is is a mayor under an intense local and national spotlight, a businessman turned politician whose city wasn't ready when Katrina hit. And now complaints are mounting about his post- storm leadership, too.
SILAS LEE, XAVIER UNIVERSITY: You cannot carry over the leadership style from the corporate sector to the political sector because in politics, visibility and communication equal credibility.
KING: The mayor is, to say the least, an enigma. On the one hand, a man who clearly relishes a fight, picking one here with the owner of the NFL's New Orleans Saints for talking openly of moving while the city is trying to get back on the feet. NAGIN: This is probably going to be very controversial, but I'm going say it anyway. We want our Saints. We may not want the owner back.
KING: And yet, no fight. In fact, a full retreat when the governor opposed his call for more casino gambling in the new New Orleans.
NAGIN: I am just a little old mayor from New Orleans. The governor is like being king of France.
KING: Ray Nagin stunned even supporters with his surprise casino plan. Its demise to many the price he pays for so often going it alone.
CLANCY DUBOS, GAMBIT WEEKLY: He's isolated. He's living in Ray- ville and in Ray-ville everything looks great. But out here in the zip code called reality, things are not so great.
KING: Clancy Dubos and his weekly newspaper supported Nagin when he ran on a clean up city hall platform. Not anymore.
DUBOS: This is no time for quirkiness, this is no time for amateurism. We need a plan and we need a vision. And Nagin doesn't have either one right now.
KING: Residents of the city's poorer neighborhoods complain their mayor is focusing on French Quarter and other wealth areas at their expense.
NAGIN: Read my lips, we will rebuild New Orleans East and the Lower 9th Ward.
KING: The mayor says much of the city's psyche remains shattered and that too many of his critics are stressed and in a rush to attack.
NAGIN: Nobody is coming up with better ideas or alternative ideas. And it's really kind of teeing me off.
KING: Not that he won't make mistakes, he concedes he has and will. But again, no apologies.
NAGIN: I don't think people really are bothered by passion and emotions as long as they see progress. And as far as my emotions are concerned, my emotions are good.
KING: And the beignets?
NAGIN: Cheers.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING: As you know from prior experience, the mayor can be charming in one breath, rather combative in the next. We talked to several of the people who supported him last time, they say they're starting to look for another candidate. And this, right where you are tonight, is one of the reasons the mayor is in this dilemma. He is walking around downtown saying look, all the restaurants are open. But the people who live here and the people who represent them are still furious because there's no plan yet as to what to do. But the mayor simply and defiantly said today, he won't have a plan, won't allow a plan until that levee is rebuilt.
COOPER: In the piece you said that the mayor has said he has made mistakes and that he will continue, you know, to make mistakes because he's human, that's what everyone does. Has he actually said what mistakes he's made? I mean, the only time I've heard him say that what mistake he made was, well, my biggest mistake was trusting the federal government that after two days the cavalry would come in.
That's not really saying what you have personally done wrong. I think there are a lot of people, here I have talked to say, I just want to hear the politicians own up to whatever failures they did and the people would kind of support them more for it. But has the mayor done that?
KING: He has not done it in any explicit way. He has said he didn't kick the federal government hard enough. He has said he didn't kick the governor hard enough. A woman who was sitting at the table right near him in Cafe Du Monde today said, I'd like him to explain his "department of unpreparedness." And he hasn't done that.
He has a lot of explaining to do. That's a cliche but it's also true in this town. And remember, this is an African-American mayor who won without a majority of the African-American vote. And one of the big questions we have, as you look around this neighborhood, is what will the demographics of the city be? Who will live here with when they have the next mayoral election?
COOPER: And that's certainly a lot concern for a lot of the politicians here locally as well as residents. John King, thanks, fascinating day with mayor.
Much more still ahead tonight on the program. The very latest on Hurricane Wilma. It is already a monster storm, it is already a killer storm, at least 10 are dead. But where is it going? The latest hurricane advisory is coming out in minutes. We'll have that for you.
Also, the cockpit tapes from that remarkable JetBlue landing. Hear how pilots kept it together during the crisis.
And acts of stunning cowardice and cruelty. Who killed Angel Girl and many other animals of New Orleans?
When NEWSNIGHT continues.
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