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At This Hour

Protests Turn to Looting in Ferguson, Missouri; Iraq's President Appoints New Prime Minister; Kurds Calling for More Weapons

Aired August 11, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: A vigil turns violent, hundreds facing off against police in Missouri overnight after witnesses say an unarmed teenager was shot and killed by an officer.

More protests are expected, more rallies expected @THISHOUR. We're going to take you there live.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Political upheaval in Iraq. A new prime minister is named but what happens to the old one? Will he go quietly?

This as the U.S. escalates the military operation against is.

PEREIRA: And a fatal confrontation rocks the motor sports world, police questioning NASCAR star Tony Stewart a second time about a tragic collision.

BERMAN: Hello, everyone. Great to see you today. I'm John Berman.

PEREIRA: Decided to come to work, did you?

BERMAN: I did.

PEREIRA: Good to see you. I'm Michaela Pereira, those stories and so much more, right now, @THISHOUR. We've got a busy show.

BERMAN: We do. We're going to begin right outside St. Louis where a solemn and peaceful march is scheduled to begin shortly for a teenager killed over the week by police.

Now, his death sparked violence overnight.

Police in full riot gear battling protesters, that's in Ferguson, Missouri. Some of the protesters threw bottles. Some kicked patrol cars. There was some vandalism and looting as well. Thirty-two people were arrested.

Many in that crowd felt no doubt this violence followed other violence.

PEREIRA: Eighteen-year-old Michael Brown was shot and killed Saturday by a Ferguson police officer. There were conflicting reports on what happened that led to the shooting. Police officials say Brown physically assaulted the officer and then struggled over his weapon, yet witnesses say that Brown was unarmed and did nothing to instigate the shooting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DORIAN JOHNSON, VICTIM'S FRIEND: He shot again, and once my friend felt that shot, he turned around and he put his hands in the air, and he started to get down.

But the officer still approached with his weapon drawn, and he fired several more shots.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: The FBI says it is now assisting local police in the investigation.

The mayor of Ferguson spoke to CNN earlier today hoping to calm the community concerns that this death investigation could be, quote, "whitewashed."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR JAMES KNOWLES, FERGUSON, MISSOURI: We have taken a hands-off approach now to this investigation because we want people to have faith in the process. We want them to know that this is going to be looked in. It will be impartial. That justice will be served.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: I want to go straight now to CNN'S George Howell live from Ferguson.

George, we know there's some kind of march scheduled. We're getting information from the St. Louis County police saying they are chief was shot at during these protests.

What's the latest?

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, we can show you right now -- if we can pan over, Jordan -- you can see a group of people who arrived here in front of police department.

This is the peaceful march that has been allowed to happen here today. There was question as to whether it would or wouldn't. Now we know that it will. And then, Jordan, if you could show -- in the background, police.

Police are ready. They are in place. You see them with batons. They are prepared to make sure that we do not see a repeat of what we saw last night.

John, Michaela, really, myself and photojournalist Jordan Guzzardo here, we were caught in the middle of this thing. It started as a peaceful march, a peaceful rally. It degenerated into outrage, into violence, people throwing bottles, people throwing rocks. We saw people -- we saw fires, right. It was a very chaotic scene, some people who came into the situation really to take advantage of it.

PEREIRA: George, I know you said that there were a lot of people that were there. It started out peacefully. That's the thing I wonder about too. I wonder if you can address that.

I know there were community members that came down this morning to try and clean up, to try and help sort of say, look, this isn't all of us that feel this way. We know that something needs to be done. We know that something wrong happened here, but we don't want this to be the note our community is remembered for.

HOWELL: Right. And you know some of those people, one gentleman that I spoke with earlier, a businessman, he owns a business down the street, he told me look, I'm embarrassed by this. I'm embarrassed by what happened because it dishonors the good work we're trying to could to get answers for what happened to Michael Brown.

Again, and you see people who own businesses, people who live in this community, they are the ones who were not at what happened last night. It was a younger group of people, quite frankly, people who came in, looking to loot, looking to cause unrest, it seems.

So, again, we see now people bringing signs, but behind the signs here I can tell you that police are certainly in place, and people are prepared to rally, a peaceful rally that is set to happen here momentarily.

BERMAN: "Justice for all," "cameras for cops," that's what those signs. A lot of people raising questions about police practices, not just there, but around the country.

George Howell, we do appreciate your being with us. We are going to check back in with you.

We are expecting to hear from the Ferguson police officers in a little bit. They are going to give a news conference, and we'll cover that the second it happens.

PEREIRA: There's certainly a lot of outrage over Michael Brown's death, and you can know that it's spreading across social media. Thousands of people are tweeting, several of them using the hash tags, "#Michael Brown," and "#if I were gunned down."

CNN's commentator L.Z. Granderson joins us live. It's at time that we lean on you L.Z. for commentary. In the short time that I've been with CNN, we've had you on too many times to talk about something that has happened like this.

Tell us about the op-ed that you just wrote. How many unarmed people have to die. What inspired you to write it?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Well, you know, it started exactly where you are talking about. I've been on CNN now for about four or five years, and it seems like every, you know, seven or eight months, I'm writing this column.

And so last night as I was on the plane, I started thinking about how tired I was of writing this column, the column that follows the death of an unarmed black person. Sometimes it's with a vigilante like George Zimmerman, sometimes it's police officers, and sometimes it's gang violence.

I'm sick and tired about writing about the victims, just also the victims are viewed and treated by the public opinion. They are put on trial. People wonder what did the unarmed black person do that he deserved to be shot in the face, for playing music too loud? For a whole litany of things we've seen over the last five years. That's where that came from.

BERMAN: You are tired of things about the protests that turn violent overnight that we saw. You say you are tired of the hash tags that have popped up on social media that have helped I suppose draw more attention to this story.

So what needs to change besides obviously, I think, you've stated eloquently, you think the police need to take a hard look at their practices. What needs to change besides that?

GRANDERSON: I think what needs to change, first and foremost, is the sense that this is a black community problem. This is an American problem. This is America's problem, and it we need to right it together as a country to address what has proven to be a real, legitimate crisis.

There's a crisis that's one aspect of this country and we don't treat it as such. I tried repeatedly. This isn't a rip on CNN. I've talked about the violence in Chicago, the weekends after it happens, and it isn't an important enough story.

There are 35 people that were shot over a weekend. How is that not an important story? Because we've heard it before. Because it's about the black community on the south side of Chicago which have been going with that decades.

We can't be bored with that story. It requires all of America's energy and focus in order to solve the problems.

PEREIRA: Where do we start in Ferguson? We know people are gathering there today that are going to try to protest and rally peacefully. We know that there always be a faction that wants to stir things up and getting the rage going, young people who feel disenfranchised.

How do we speak with reason and say we got to do something but we've got to do something more substantively.

GRANDERSON: There are a couple of things that need to happen. Number one, it's very important that the community down in Ferguson identify the people who were involved with looting and make sure those people were apprehended and arrested.

I was sickened to my stomach seeing black women running out of stores with bags of weaves in their hands, what one thing does that have to do with what we're doing right now. It's disgusting. I don't want to see any protection of any criminals who happen to be at those rallies.

Number two, I would like to see the mayor actually meet with the parents. I saw an interview with Chris Cuomo this morning. Twenty-four hours, thirty-six hours have passed and the mayor said he still hadn't an opportunity to meet with the family. The mayor says he may get to them in the day or next day.

That is way too long. When you have a situation this volatile and you still haven't had time to meet with the grieving parents that sends a message that you don't really identify with the pain that your community is suffering from.

And then number three, if you are a politician, Republican, Democrat, independent, libertarian, and if you showed up in an HVCU, if you showed up in the National Association of Black Journalists Conference, if you showed up in a black church talking about helping the black community, looking for black votes, then you need to be visible and present during these moments as well, because you can't come to us saying we identify with you and then when there's true pain like this, you are silent and you disappear.

BERMAN: L.Z., we love having you on the show, we appreciate your passion. We even appreciate more the op-ed you wrote. I ask everyone to go find that on CNN.com. It's really, really thought provoking.

PEREIRA: We appreciate it, L.Z.. Thank you so much.

We are going to continue to follow this story. Protests continue over the shooting of the unarmed teen near St. Louis as we wait to hear from the Ferguson police department themselves. They're at the core of this story.

BERMAN: Plus, turmoil in Iraq, we have military turmoil also political turmoil. A new prime minister is named, but what happens to this guy? Nouri al-Maliki, the old prime minister, will he got quietly?

This as the U.S. continues to bomb militants in the north. Can their military success be stemmed?

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BERMAN: Major political upheaval in Iraq today, in the midst of all this fighting against the Islamic militant group ISIS, Iraq's president has appointed a new prime minister, effectively replacing Nouri al-Maliki.

This comes as Maliki has sent tanks and forces -- has sent tanks and forces into Baghdad's "Green Zone," believed to be in a part a move to shore up his power, but so far, that didn't seem to work.

PEREIRA: Yeah, he's digging in his heels.

Meanwhile, the U.S. has conducted a new way of air strikes to drive back ISIS, the Islamist militants fighting to take over Iraq and part of Syria. The strikes on Sunday hit five new targets and apparently killed several ISIS fighters.

Kurdish forces were, meanwhile, were able to break the siege by ISIS, rescuing thousands of those people who have been stranded on a mountain. The Yazidis people were able to board trucks and then head to the Syrian border. Dozens thought, have died on that mountain. Many of them children. After Islamists forced them from their towns, telling them to convert or die.

On Sunday, the U.S. military made a fourth air drop of food and water, but many have already died battling extreme heat and thirst. Things are certainly moving very quickly in Iraq. The president as you mentioned, naming a new prime minister to replace Nouri al-Maliki.

Joining us now is Anna Coren; she is live in Irbil in northern Iraq. Tell us what's the latest. Things are changing so quickly there.

ANNA COREN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They are changing very quickly. Politically, it is moving at an extremely rapid pace. A short time ago, the President nominated a new prime minister for Iraq. He's Haider al-Abadi. He's a Shiite politician, he's a member of Nouri al-Maliki's party. He's a former aide of the prime minister.

So this news has been welcomed by the United States, as well as the United Nations. He has 30 days to form a government that will then need to be endorsed by the parliament with an absolute majority. He has 30 days, but this could happen within a matter of days and they desperately need some sort of political stability here in Iraq. Obviously, this turmoil is just a fertile breeding ground, if you like, for ISIS and growing support, you know, from the Sunni minority to these ISIS militants that are making lightning advance across Iraq.

BERMAN: I think the big question now is what does Maliki do next. But let's move to the military conflict, right now, raging not far from you are standing in Irbil. The Associated Press is reporting that the Obama administration has begun to provide weapons directly to the Kurdish forces, the Peshmerga, to help them on the ground there. This is an escalation in the American role there providing these weapons directly to the Kurds.

COREN: Well, the Kurds have been calling for more weapons. They said that they need it, because at the moment they are being outgunned but these ISIS militants. So they made those desperate calls yesterday. And, yes, we're hearing reports that the Americans are arming the Kurds directly. Normally it would go through the Iraqis, but we are hearing it's going directly through the Americas to the Kurdish forces, John.

BERMAN: They don't just trust the government in Baghdad. They would rather get them to the people actually doing the fighting in the north there then trust whatever government is running things in Baghdad, which frankly is not clear.

Our Anna Coren, thanks so much. So much to discuss here. We have much more on the crisis in Iraq coming up. We're going to be talking more about the political power struggle happening there while the U.S. is continuing its air strike against the militants as this humanitarian crisis grows. We're going to talk about whether the U.S. could have ever stayed out of Iraq in the first place.

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PEREIRA: I'm going head back to Missouri. Ferguson, Missouri, about 15 miles outside of St. Louis, where protests are going on in light of a shooting of an 18-year-old unarmed teenager by police. A lot of questions are being asked and raised in that community, what happened in that scenario. Police say the two struggled over the police officers gun. Witnesses on the ground say the young man was unarmed.

This person speaking is Zaki Baruti, he is head of the Universal African People's organization. They are urging calm in light of these protests because of the near riots that occurred over night.

BERMAN: Let's listen to a little bit of what he has to say.

(BEGIN LIVE FEED)

ZAKI BARUTI, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSAL AFRICAN PEOPLE'S ORGANIZATION: The second demand is the same officer who committed that murder should be immediately fired -- and charged -- and charged with murder.

CROWD: Yes.

BARUTI: We also, No. 3, we say that the Ferguson police department chronicle handbook should be dispersed through the Ferguson community so that the residents know how the police are supposed to act. Even if they don't follow their own guide book.

The last demand, Ferguson is a community that has at least 30 to 40 percent black population, yet if you look at the composition on the police department, it's over - it's 53 police officers, and only 3 is black. We are allowing people who don't live in our community to put guns on them, who don't like us, and come in and shoot us down.

CROWD: They are racist. Racist!

BARUTI: We say that what has taken place, not only here in Ferguson, but all across the country. It's like the KKK has placed on their sheets --

CROWD: That is right. That is right.

BARUTI: We say no more, no more.

CROWD: No more, no more.

(END LIVE FEED)

BERMAN: Right now, a demonstration, a rally in Ferguson, Missouri. Right now, of course, this following the death of an 18-year-old boy, Michael Brown, who everyone in that crowd believes was shot and killed by a police officer. The man speaking right now calling for that police officer to be arrested and charged with murder.

PEREIRA: We know the FBI is investigating, the NAACP has demanded, both on the local and state level, has demanded an investigation. We're looking to hear from folks from the Ferguson police department. They are supposed to be having a press conference at some point this hour. We hope to be able to take you there when that happens.

Can we turn our attention to Iraq now? Where instability seems to be reigning right now. Political upheaval in particular, and a growing humanitarian crisis there. Things are happening very quickly today. Let's talk to some guests who can help but it in perspective for us.

BERMAN: Joining us now from Washington is retired Colonel Cedric Leighton. And from London, Charlie Cooper, the programs officer and Middle-East researcher with the Quilliam Foundation.

Colonel Leighton, I want to start with you here. We have this news, coming out just in last hour and a half or so, that a new prime minister has been appointed, effectively pushing Nuri al-Maliki off to the side here. This political turmoil as the United States is engage in a military operation in the north. How does that affect the U.S. role right now?

COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.): Well, John, it can effect it quite considerably because you really predicate a lot of U.S. military involvement based on the fact that the government you are trying to help is a stable government. And, of course, the Iraqi government is not in the category.

Now, with the appointment of the new prime minister, that could serve to -- consolidate power where it's supposed to be under the Iraqi constitution. But I think there are going to be still a lot of difficulties for the United States to navigate but also for the Iraqi politicians themselves to navigate, and that could have a significant impact on our ability to carry out military operations, especially those operations to protect those people on Mt. Sinjar and other areas and especially Kurdistan as well.

PEREIERA: Well, let's turn to that, and, Charlie, I want to ask you about it. You know, we've been watching the situation play out on the ground. We've seen that the Kurdish forces, who have made some head way and stood their ground, and as you said Colonel Leighton, they were able to assist the Yazidis who were near the border up in the mountains who were essentially cornered there. What else needs to be done to help them? It sounds as though the U.S. is arming those militants. How much more does the U.S. need to do with them in particular?

CHARLIE COOPER, QUILLIAM FOUNDATION: Well, I think it's very important that the U.S. gives strategic advice to the Kurdish Peshmerga, as well as arm them. I think that arming them is very helpful but it won't be the solution to this crisis. What's very important, what is imperative at this stage, is that other members of the international community step up as well. This cannot be seen as just a U.S. attack against Iraq. Because it will be put into the Jihadist binary world view of the crusaders, i.e. the United States, versus the Caliphate. This is really dangerous because it really feeds their agenda, and it really helps them. BERMAN: There are a lot of dangers here, Colonel, aren't there?

Because with this political upheaval, one of the things the United States has been careful of all along has been this sense that they didn't want to be Nuri al-Maliki's Air Force, didn't want to be the Iraqi governments Air Force when they did not trust their government.

Can you effectively now have two separate foreign policies, one that deals with the Kurds in the north, serves as the Kurdish Air Force but is separate and more hands off with the government in Baghdad?

LEIGHTON: Well, that's a real complicated mess to get into, John, and I would say, really, no. Unless we believe that we are going to, in effect, allow for the partitioning the Iraqi state as it currently exists. So if we allow for Kurdistan, for example, to become a separate and independent country then it is possible to do what you've suggested, it would become the de facto Kurdistan Air Force. And do a more hands off approach with Baghdad.

But even that would be short lived, because what would happen there is the Iraqis would need U.S. military protection, in one shape or another, in the face of the ISIS threat against them. Because, we have to remember, they are still just on the outskirts of Baghdad and they can move down the Euphrates and Tigris River valleys almost with impunity at this point in time. That's the real danger that we're facing at this moment.

PEREIERA: Charlie, quick question to you before we wrap up, final thought. You talked about the fact this needs to be an international coalition. How likely do you think that we're going to get -- see some international support. We've already heard from several countries who have said, wait we'll provide humanitarian aid but that's as far as we're able to go.

COOPER: If a handful countries have stepped up to say that they will provide water and medicine and food. However, for the military intervention, which I do believe that does need to be because the Islamic state cannot continue to act with impunity in the region.

For that intervention ,there needs to be some sort of participation from Muslim majority countries in order to cleave apart this ideology that they have, to stop them from use such an attack as propaganda. Because that is exactly what they will do. This has happened time and time again. Already on social media you can see that the Islamic state is getting much more support from the grass root levels across the world. People taking photos of the Islamic states flag in front of the White House for example. Just to show that there is support across the world for the Islamic state.

PEREIRA: I want to say thank you to, Charlie Cooper, and retired Colonel Cedric Leighton, always a pleasure to have you with us. Charlie, thanks to you for joining us from London today.

Take a short break here. Ahead @THISHOUR, back to our story in Missouri, growing outrage, an unarmed teenager shot dead by police in Missouri. We're going to talk you back -- take you back to the scene and talk with the Ferguson police chief next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)