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At This Hour
Father in Hot-Car Death Indicted; Justice Department Launching Civil Rights Investigation of Missouri Police; Michael Brown's Juvenile Record May Be Unsealed; ISIS Teaching Children to Kill; Home Depot Responds to Security Hack.
Aired September 04, 2014 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The breaking news is out of Cobb County, Georgia. The so-called hot car death. Justin Ross Harris has been indicted on eight counts, including felony murder and malice murder. Some very serious charges.
Martin Savidge has been covering this story from the beginning and joins us now.
Good morning, Martin.
MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John. Yeah, as you point out, there are eight counts here, maybe more than we might have surmised, but the most serious, of course, is malice murder. Just summarizing really quickly that comes from this indictment it says that accused person, that is Justin Ross Harris, in Cobb County in the state of Georgia, on about the 18th of June, that's the date in which all of this went down, did knowingly and with malice aforethought cause the death of cooper Harris, the 22-month-old child, a human being, placing said cooper Harris in a hot vehicle contrary to the laws of the state, the good order peace and dignity thereof. This charge opens up the possibility of the death penalty being applied in this case. We're not going to walk down just that road so far yet, but it shows you the seriousness at which in Cobb County they are treating this.
I want to bring in now Philip Holloway, a former prosecutor in Cobb County, also a defense attorney.
What did you make of this indictment?
PHILIP HOLLOWAY, FORMER ATTORNEY & FORMER PROSECUTOR: This indictment, Martin, as we know, replaces the original arrest warrant and supersedes it. It means that prosecutors at least believe that they have enough evidence to prove that there was premeditation, there was deliberation, and that there was some planning involved in this, such it rises to the level of malice. That's something more than mere intention. That shows under Georgia law an abandoned and malignant heart.
SAVIDGE: You mentioned the word "sinister," that it implies in some way it's not just the planning of it, there is a sinister nature to it by that charge.
HOLLOWAY: The word malice does imply something more sinister. What's interesting about the indictment, they've included a felony murder count based on second-degree child cruelty which involves only criminal negligence. So you have two competing theories within the same indictment.
SAVIDGE: And what will the theories be? In one case this was a planned, premeditated kind of murder.
HOLLOWAY: The prosecutors believe they have enough evidence to support the charge or they would not have put it in there. The good strategy that prosecutors sometimes employ, if a jury has a question about whether or not it was intentional it gives the jury a fallback position to still convict someone of murder under these circumstances.
SAVIDGE: I want to bring out there are two other counts here, count 7, which is dissemination of harmful material to minors and count 8, dissemination of harmful material to minors again. This is going back to what has been implied by authorities there was a relationship, apparently an improper one, with an underaged female on-line that he was, Justin Ross Harris, was involved with.
HOLLOWAY: Presumably, that's regarding the testimony we heard at the probable cause hearing that involved him sending text messages of his genitalia with this underage girl under the age of 18.
SAVIDGE: That's part of what made this case go from what had been a horrible one to a sensational one -- John?
MICHAEL PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: Martin, thanks so much.
Such interesting developments and maybe a little shocking. I think we were wondering what would come down in this indictment.
Jean Casarez is here with us.
Eight counts. Again, as Martin was going through these, malice murder, felony murder, felony murder, cruelty to children in the first degree, you keep going on and on, if he's convicted, he could face a long time in jail.
JEAN CASAREZ, HLN LEGAL CORRESPONDENT: The death penalty is what he could face because Georgia has the death penalty. I think one of the things here that we've been wondering and the grand jury has been look at all the evidence on this, is what degree of homicide, if it was a homicide, malice, every state terms it differently. This is first- degree murder, murder one. I pulled the law. It's intent to kill. A deliberate intention to end the life of his son.
BERMAN: He killed his son, he meant to kill his son, he planned to kill his son.
CASAREZ: Exactly. Exactly. Now it's interesting because you have inters laced with this -- interlaced with this an alleged relationship or communication with a minor which forms the basis of some of the counts, but it's during the criminal episode is what prosecutors will say, during that day, right, as he was texting with an underage minor?
BERMAN: Does that help get that evidence to a trial when it happens by charging him for the sexting with a minor? Does that really make that a prominent factor and get that in the jury's mind?
CASAREZ: You know, one would say yes. The defense might say no. The defense might say you charged him with this and that's where his mind was. His mind wasn't on his son and why it was negligent, it was an accident.
PEREIRA: Jean, incredible, Justin Ross Harris indicted on eight counts like you said one of them --
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: This takes it to another level. I've covered many death penalty trials in Georgia. It's a very different proceeding. You have the guilt phase, if this goes to trial, and then you've got the penalty is.
BERMAN: Does this mean anything for his wife? Because that was such a factor during the weeks that we were covering this. Does this make it more or less that she could be charged?
CASAREZ: I don't think we know the answer. That is very unresolved at this point.
PEREIRA: Thank you for breaking it down with us. We'll be watching this on CNN.
Justin Ross Harris the father of the so-called hot car death, the boy cooper Harris dead at 22 months. We will be watching this story.
We'll take a break here at this hour.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PEREIRA: All right. Some new developments for you on two fronts stemming from the police shooting of Michael Brown. The Justice Department is launching a top-to-bottom civil rights investigation into the Missouri Police Department. Attorney General Eric Holder has scheduled a significant update for 2:30 eastern today.
The Ferguson Police Department has come under fire for its past practices in the weeks since Officer Darren Wilson killed that unarmed black teenager.
And a judge is deciding whether to unseal Brown's record.
BERMAN: Two media outlets have sued for any records the 18-year-old might have has a juvenile.
Jean Casarez, an attorney, is back with us right now, been following the Michael Brown case from the beginning.
This new case that Eric Holder, new investigation I should say, that attorney general will announce, is different than the criminal case that might or might not be launched against Darren Wilson and is different than the federal civil rights investigation into the incident where Michael Brown died. Explain what's going on this time.
CASAREZ: Exactly right. This is an inclusive Department of Justice civil rights investigation into the police department. We believe the Ferguson Police Department could be expanded to be more of St. Louis County, but it's not unusual and it's actually a good thing. It's an oversight in a sense. What can result is that -- you want cops from the police department because it can become a change in programs, personnel. I received, Newark Police Department had an investigation, Albuquerque Police Department, they had an investigation, full report, and what they found in Newark, for instance, was stops and arrests, unreasonable searches, based on race, even theft, they found that officers took belongings of people that had been arrested, inadequate investigations, civil complaints really looked at, so it will take a long time because for Newark, New Jersey, it started in 2011, three years later.
PEREIRA: It's interesting, too, because we've heard since Michael Brown's death, so many calls for transparency. Not just in the investigation into the death of the teenager, but also in terms of the practices there in Ferguson. Let me also turn to that question of the juvenile record of Michael Brown because there's a lot -- we know two media outlets are suing to get access to that but the St. Louis juvenile court has shown he had no serious felony convictions or pending charges when he was killed.
CASAREZ: Correct.
PEREIRA: So if there's nothing there there's nothing there.
CASAREZ: Nosy. Wanting to know the information some would say. There are no charges here. Someone just believes they have a right to his juvenile records. They're sealed and the reason they are sealed when you're a juvenile it's a different procedure, it's not a guilt or innocence proceeding, even if there were charges the defense would not get this in. There is a grand jury looking at this case, some might believe that it would be good to taint them. You see what I'm saying.
PEREIRA: I see what you're saying.
BERMAN: Have you heard of records being released posthumously on a media request?
CASAREZ: Back on Trayvon Martin in Florida there were rumors and a local Miami police department got records of Trayvon Martin's juvenile record, never came into the trial but it did taint the media and potentially some believed it could taint a jury.
BERMAN: Well, getting a jury --
(CROSSTALK)
CASAREZ: And that can be the point.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: That's a good point. A lot of information going around. You have civil rights investigations going around, how could that affect a jury.
Jean, interesting discussion.
PEREIRA: You worked hard for us today. Thank you.
CASAREZ: Thank you.
BERMAN: Other news, fast-food workers in cities across the country protesting to have their pay boosted to $15 an hour. There's been at least 30 arrests in Detroit, 19 in New York City, on charges of disorderly conduct for blocking traffic. The median pay for fast-food workers is about $9 an hour. That comes to $18,500 a year.
PEREIRA: That's below the poverty level.
BERMAN: If they're working full time. The workers want to be able to join a union without retaliation.
PEREIRA: Going to take a short break. Ahead at this hour, ISIS forcing children to attend terror camps. A typical day includes learning how to kill. We'll tell you what else they're taught.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK HAGEL, DEFENSE SECRETARY: This is just beyond anything quite like we have seen. It is a look into where parts of the world may be going unless the United States, along with our partners and our coalitions, stop it. This is the point the president was making. You got to destroy it. Because if we don't destroy it, it will get worse and it will get wider and deeper.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BERMAN: That was Chuck Hagel, secretary of defense, talking about the spread of the ISIS ideology and what ISIS militants are doing, in some cases, handing down that ideology as a legacy to a younger generation.
PEREIRA: We're seeing footage like this and word they are teaching children how to hate, how to handle guns, to behead people. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED BOY: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(SHOUTING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PEREIRA: Let us bring in Peter Brookes from the Heritage Foundation. My goodness out of the mouths of children, such a horrifying thing to
hear and to you know, I don't even know where to begin. It's so horrifying. What do you think international leaders around the world are thinking? They look to stamp out a group, right? They want to come in and knock out ISIS forcefully. Not so easy to stamp out an ideology, though, peter.
PETER BROOKES, HERITAGE FOUNDATION & FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Right. Very important. Even getting one of their leaders. And it appears we may have gotten their number two in Iraq. You have to go after the ideology. You know, the things we're seeing here are, you know, brainwashing, depravity, horrifying, sickening. I mean, it's just absolutely terrible. We know how impressionable young children are. And instead of being told -- taught to love, they're being taught to hate. These people, this ISIS group, or ISIL or whatever you want to call them, the Islamic state, they plan on governing for some time. They're setting up camp. They're setting up a state, and they're not going to go away very easily, so we have to be very sober about the threat we're facing.
BERMAN: We throw around the term brainwashing, and I wonder if that oversimplifies it because look, I don't believe babies are born good or evil. They're born babies and they're taught good or evil over time. Or they're raised in an environment where such things are acceptable. So could it be that they are just raised in this environment that hates the West, that wants to kill people, that's what they learn and that's what they grow up believing? Is that qualitatively different than brainwashing?
BROOKES: Well, John, I'm not a psychologist, unfortunately. I mean, I'm just John Q. Public when it comes to those sorts of subjects. But it seems to me if anybody who has a child, how impressionable they are, and if they're taught these things that they may actually embrace them. You know, the other things we have to look at is, from a practical standpoint, these children could be taught to be suicide bombers. You know, the fact is, and when we look at sometimes children, we don't see them as a major threat, but these kids could be trained to put on a suicide vest and go out and kill other people besides the idea of beheading, they're being exposed to stonings, to crucifixions. I mean, this is sheer evil. And the soul of this organization is very, very dark. And we need to do something about it.
PEREIRA: It's horrifying to think that children are being forced to bear witness to this. And we should also point out, Peter, and I think it's a really important point to make, that these aren't just children of is fighters. They're often Iraqi children whose parents don't align with is. And they're being forced to attend these camps under threat of death to their parents. In fact, some of these people have fled because they think that, you know, it's either be called an infidel and be killed, or they flee.
BROOKES: Yeah. I mean, that shows the increased level of depravity that we're dealing with here. You know, and there's plenty of videos out there. I mean, we're getting a limited amount of reporting on this. But it's very troubling. We should look further into this. There are human rights groups that should be looking at this and trying to get more information about it. Like I said, there's been very limited reporting. But obviously very, very troubling for a whole host of reasons.
BERMAN: It shows the reach here because kids are being taught to hate there. But a kid in Minnesota can grow up and learn to hate as well and end up fighting for is, too. It just shows the scope of the threat.
Peter Brookes, thanks so much for being with us.
PEREIRA: And people can also be taught, because if you're raised in a bad environment, you can overcome that. You also though that. And that's an important thing for us to remember, too.
BERMAN: Yeah.
PEREIRA: Short break here. Home Depot trying to make good with its customers. The investigation in a possible credit and debit card hack continues. What the retailers is promising and what all that data might show.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PEREIRA: All right. Here we go. Our Laurie Segall is here. Home Depot says forensics and security teams have been working around the clock to determine whether or not the hardware giant is the latest major U.S. retailer to fall victim to hackers.
BERMAN: I bet they've been working. The company says it will offer free identity protection services including credit monitoring to any customers whose credit card or debit card information may have been breached.
PEREIRA: "CNN Money" tech correspondent, Laurie Segall, is here following this story.
OK. Break it down. What do we know in terms of the investigation right now?
LAURIE SEGALL, CNN MONEY TECH CORRESPONDENT: Right now we're just in the beginning phases. We know they're investigating it. They haven't confirmed it. I spoke to an actual hacker who went into those Russian forums where they're looking at this data. He said they're seeing new data. We're waiting for the next couple of days for Home Depot to come out with something a little more concrete.
BERMAN: What is this kind of data, this kind of information worth?
SEGALL: Well, this is where it gets really interesting. On the black market, a credit card could go for about $100. But I actually spoke to a privacy group. They're called the Digital Citizens Alliance. They posed as a potential customer and called up an alleged hacker. Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DIGITAL CITIZENS ALLIANCE MEMBER: I'm calling about the credit cards.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. Now, did you want CVVS, fulls or don'ts?
DIGITAL CITIZENS ALLIANCE MEMBER: I think fulls, but I'm trying to figure out how many I can buy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Social, all of that as well?
DIGITAL CITIZENS ALLIANCE MEMBER: I don't know. I'm trying to get some cash, so I'm looking to buy some stuff so I can sell it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, so you're looking to buy stuff online, right?
DIGITAL CITIZENS ALLIANCE MEMBER: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. What sites are you planning to target?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SEGALL: Unbelievable to watch that happen.
PEREIRA: This has better customer service than a legit company. This is insane.
BERMAN: You have options.
SEGALL: Exactly. I'll take this opportunity to say you should be monitoring your online bank accounts right now, especially if you shopped at Home Depot. In general, you should also do that. Oftentimes, if you use a credit card at these places, you know, you can catch fraudulent activity before you lose money if you use an ATM card. That's a bit of advice, but it's really difficult in these scenarios.
PEREIRA: Fraud alerts on your bank account.
(CROSSTALK)
SEGALL: For these preventative methods. We'll know more hopefully in the next couple of days if it was a breach, how extensive it was.
BERMAN: When you hear that kind of organization, it sounds systemic.
SEGALL: Absolutely. It's unbelievable what's happening on the dark web. This is something we have to monitor and be aware.
BERMAN: Laurie Segall, thank you for scaring our pants off. Appreciate you being here.
PEREIRA: She's so nice, too.
BERMAN: Yeah.
PEREIRA: That's it for us at this hour. I'm Michaela Pereira.
I'm John Berman.
"Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield" starts right now.
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield, and welcome to "Legal View."
Born in France, raised in Boston, schooled in computers, is this man now doing high-tech dirty work for ISIS.
