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At This Hour

Russia Announces Gulf of Mexico Military Flights; Ferguson Prepares for Grand Jury Decision; Administration to Review Its Policy on Syria

Aired November 13, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: Just moments ago, lawyers for the family of Michael Brown asking police to behave when the grand jury makes its decision in this case. Will the protesters turn violent? Will the police? That's ahead.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: The nation's top defense officials are on Capitol Hill today defending U.S. strategy in the war against is. Does the U.S. Have a winning planning plan to defeat the terrorists, or is the president looking to change direction.

BERMAN: It has never been done before. Taking pictures of a comet from the surface of the comet. It's happening right now with the most popular spacecraft in the galaxy. We'll talk about what this means for our past, present and our future.

Hello, everyone. Great to see you. I'm John Berman.

PEREIRA: Are we planning on staying mostly terrestrial today?

BERMAN: Yes. We're staying mostly on Earth today.

PEREIRA: I'm Michaela Pereira. Those stories and so much more, ahead, @THISHOUR.

Russia is flexing its military muscle, it would appear. It is planning to send long-range bombers to patrol the Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean. That would bring the flights close to the U.S. Too close for comfort. some officials say.

BERMAN: Very close. It's right here. And the context here matters as well. It comes after NATO warned Russia about moving combat troops into eastern Ukraine. Tensions very, very high.

I want to bring in Peter Brookes, senior fellow for national security affairs at The Heritage Foundation. Peter, Russia used to have bombers and warplanes that flew pretty close to the U.S. but hasn't for a long, long time. This seems like a provocative move.

PETER BROOKES, SENIOR FELLOW, THE HERITAGE FOUNDATION: Sure. They're projecting power. Russia is on the roll here, whether you're talking about Ukraine or elsewhere.

John, they have a flotilla floating off Australia. They have ships in the South China Sea. This is a country that is bent on regaining its past military glory, and it's showing the world, especially the United States and the West and NATO, that it's back and it's ready to rumble if necessary.

PEREIRA: Ready to rumble. You talk about the strategic moves its making. We're hearing reports that Russian troops are essentially readying to breach that border again entering Ukraine.

What do you make of that? Are they planning an invasion?

BROOKES: I think they're already there, Michaela. It just depends on the numbers. The numbers are kind of murky right now, coming out of NATO.

The pro-Russian rebels cannot sustain themselves and continue to fight without Russian support. Now Russia is upping the ante. And I think what the situation is here is that eastern Ukraine is being held hostage until Russia gets what it wants out of the central government in Ukraine, Kiev.

And let's -- if Moscow doesn't get what it wants and that's strategic subservience of Kiev to Russia, it's going to hold eastern Ukraine hostage and continue to destabilize it.

They may annex it like they did in Crimea, or they may just keep it unstable until Kiev comes around until what Moscow wants.

BERMAN: Peter, can we talk about the planes again flying around near the Gulf of Mexico, these Russian bombers. I think realistically we have to agree the Russians aren't about to bomb us. That's not what's happening here.

BROOKES: Yes.

BERMAN: Nevertheless, it is a threat. I mean, we have commercial planes that fly up around there. What are the risks involved with this kind of measure?

BROOKES: Russians can fly around in international air space as long as they use caution, don't go over national boundaries, 12 nautical miles of any coastline.

We fly around the world. In fact, that's one of the things I did when I was in the navy. Surveillance happens.

But what Russia is saying here is symbolic. It's sending a signal. It's saying, look, we can reach out and touch you. And this is a constant reminder, though, that Moscow is halfway around the world, Washington is pretty close.

PEREIRA: Peter, since we have you, I want to turn our attention and maybe you can give us insight into what we're seeing in Turkey, a story that we've been following here at CNN.

We know three U.S. sailors assaulted in Istanbul. We have video of it. It was all captured on camera, bags placed over their heads, anti- American sentiments.

It says the local media say the attackers appeared to be Turkish nationalists shouting anti-American sentiments. What do you make of this?

So, Peter, you're able to hear it. You see it. You can imagine how upsetting it would be for the family. We know they've seen the pictures of these sailors with the bags being pulled over their heads. Give us your thoughts.

BROOKES: It's very troubling, obviously. I imagine our sailors were there on a goodwill visit. But relations between America and Turkey are not good. There's no doubt about that. We haven't come to agreement on how to deal with Syria

There's been a lot of issues between the two countries. And even though we're NATO allies, we're not partners on what's going on in the Middle East, just south of Turkey, the battle for Kobani, Syria, ISIS, all of these sort of things.

So relations are not bad. Sometimes people will take that out on representatives of another country such as our sailors there in Turkey.

BERMAN: People are saying with friends like these. This is happening inside one of America's NATO allies. It is shocking to see and an indictment of the situation inside that country.

Peter Brookes, thanks for being with us. Appreciate it.

BROOKES: Thanks so much for having me.

PEREIRA: Our eyes turn now to Ferguson. The grand jury could be making a decision at any time in the case of Michael Brown.

Lawyers for his family, they have a message for police. When this decision comes out, don't turn to violence.

BROOKES: And it is a bird, it's a plane. No, it's the tailgate from Bono's jet. We'll explain what happened when this rock star had an incident on a plane that I think he'd rather forget.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Just a few minutes ago, lawyers for the family of slain teenager Michael Brown held a news conference. They demanded that police -- police -- respond peacefully when the grand jury renders its decision in the police shooting case.

PEREIRA: Just last hour attorneys for Brown's parents responded to a call by Missouri governor Jay Nixon, who this week urged protesters to reject violence when the decision on whether or not to indict Officer Wilson is handed out. We know that decision could come any day now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ANTHONY GRAY, ATTORNEY FOR MICHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY: Law enforcement should have been equally condemned by the governor for their conduct at the same time he was admonishing the demonstrators. A strong message of zero tolerance should have been conveyed to all.

Again, we are hopeful that law enforcement and demonstrators can assemble in the same area if it comes the to that without incident. That is our solemn hope.

We realize that some people are anxious, angry, and want instant answers. However, violence, looting, and rioting is not a responsible way of expressing those feelings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Indeed.

Today is a fascinating day for the grand jury. They are due hear from pathologist Dr. Michael Baden. He was hired by Michael Brown's family to conduct an independent autopsy.

PEREIRA: Michael Brown's parents, meanwhile, are still in Switzerland. They testified before a United Nations committee, and they called for an investigation into police brutality across the U.S.

Our Sara Sidner is in Clayton, Missouri. I know it's starting to get a little bit colder there. We appreciate you being outdoors and bridging us this conversation, Sara.

Officer Darren Wilson's attorney was with us on "NEW DAY" this morning. We asked whether the St. Louis Police Officers Association stands by Officer Wilson's version of events and whether he thinks the union thinks this case demonstrates a correct use of force.

Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEIL BRUNTRAGER, ATTORNEY FOR OFFICER DARREN WILSON: The answer is they don't. What they know is what everyone has read in the newspapers. They're in a position where they like everyone else are waiting until the grand jury makes a decision

Their position is that, look, justice is a process. They support the process. They're behind the process. And I think that's the most important element here, is that it's not about taking a side. It's about understanding the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Sara, I suppose the frustration in Ferguson and many parts of the nation is that the process -- they're worried it's not going to be fair and there won't be justice in that process.

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. That's been the worry the whole time, from the family and the protesters who have come here saying that they wanted a special prosecutor put in place, saying that they did not think that the grand jury would be fair.

They wanted the prosecutor here to initially charge Wilson first before the grand jury got a look at it, which can happen in this state. But for the prosecutor's part and for the justice system here, they've been saying all along, we will be fair, we will be given all the evidence.

And it is an unusual scenario, we should mention that. This is an extremely long grand jury process, unusual to say the least. They've been meeting for now weeks on this case and have been doing more of an investigation as opposed to what the grand jury often does. So I think we're seeing an extraordinary circumstance here.

We also, in listening to what you guys talked to Wilson's attorney about, seems to be a bit unusual. I talked to law enforcement sources. They say oftentimes the union will come and stand very strongly behind their officers, especially when they are, you know, coming under fire while in the line of duty.

But certainly you're seeing them also step that back a little bit and saying, look, we believe in the process. And we believe there will be a fair process going forward. Not everyone believes that. But there's certainly a lot of sides to this story.

I think we should also mention that the Brown family was very clear, not only through their attorneys but they, themselves, have said repeatedly time and again, no matter what the grand jury decides, whether they decide to indict the officer or not to indict, there has to be a peaceful response, not a violent one.

BERMAN: On both sides. They want peaceful response from the protesters, a peaceful response from the police as well. Sara Sidner in Missouri, thanks so much for being with us.

I want to bring in our legal analyst, Paul Callan. Paul, thanks for being with us.

It's a really fascinating day in Missouri right now, this grand jury. This independent pathologist, Dr. Michael Baden who examined Michael Brown's body, he is testifying before this grand jury.

Now they've already heard testimony and seen information about the official autopsy. How unusual is it to get this second alternative version of events?

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's very unusual in the sense that in most cases you don't have a family hiring a doctor different from the coroner, the county coroner who usually would do an autopsy. So probably 99.5 percent of cases there is no second doctor to call.

And then you have this issue, is it appropriate for the prosecutor to call the family's doctor. He will be the witness for the family if they bring a civil case later on.

So that's sort of a close call as to whether it's appropriate or not. I suppose the police officer could say, do I get the right to have my own doctor then testify? However, I will tell you from speaking to a lot of prosecutors who have handled these cases, and I've been a prosecutor myself, in a high profile matter like this involving a police shooting, it is not at all unusual for a prosecutor to present all of the evidence that is available, to try to remain neutral in terms of its presentation and allow the grand jury to make the decision.

PEREIRA: Does it give you an indication of which way the prosecutor is headed?

CALLAN: Well, it indicates to me that he's bending over backwards to be neutral in his presentation of the case. Because I will tell you, there's that old saying that Sal Walker, who was the Chief of the Court of Appeals in New York said, a prosecutor could indict a ham sandwich if he wanted to. And that's because the normal case -- let's say it's just a street assault or a street robbery case, that's going to go in with one or two witnesses, and then the prosecutor walks into the grand jury, with his tone of voice he suggests in the way he charges the law that they should indict.

The grand jury indicts. That's sort of the average case that takes place in front of a grand jury. This is a very different case. Because the prosecutor knows everything he does will be scrutinized. It's a political hot potato, and he doesn't want to look like he was unfair. So I think in a case like this, the safe political course, he's an elected official, the prosecutor, is to just give them all of the evidence and to hope that they do the right thing, the grand jurors, that is.

BERMAN: But the ham sandwich line exists for a reason, though.

CALLAN: Yes.

BERMAN: Isn't it true that if a prosecutor wants, 9 times out of 10, 99 times out of 100, that he or she can get an indictment from a grand jury?

CALLAN: Yes, they can. And I've stood in front of grand juries myself, and I'll tell you how it's done. What happens is you give the jurors the law at the end of the case. With your tone of voice you can suggest how you feel about the case. And remember, the prosecutors who are in front of these grand jurors are there every day. And you know, there will be a little old lady knitting in the back of the room and say, Mr. Callan, what kind of case have you got today? I'll say I have a robbery case coming in, it's going to be an interesting one. Just sort of a back-and-forth friendliness between the prosecutor and the grand jurors. Then at the end of the case, the prosecutor reads the law. He'll say, if you find that the officer acted in self- defense, you don't have to indict him. However -- then you can use your tone of voice to suggest an alternative course, if you want to. And I'm telling you, it happens all the time. That's why the ham sandwich statement is made.

However, in a case like this, a hot potato like this, I'm betting you're going to have a totally neutral prosecutor saying this is the law -- I don't think the prosecutor is going to slant it one way or the other. He wouldn't be presenting the alternative evidence if he was looking for a no true bill or a dismissal. He wouldn't be calling Baden.

PEREIRA: Well again, we know that decision is expected imminently. We're going to be seeing a lot of you in the next coming days. Paul Callan, thanks for your expertise.

CALLAN: Thank you, Michaela.

BERMAN: Later we're going to hear from author and forensic expert Patricia Cornwell. She's going to weigh in on these dueling sort of pathologists who have testified before this grand jury.

PEREIRA: Still ahead right here, the nation's top defense officials testifying about U.S. strategy in the war against ISIS. Is a shift in policy in the works? We'll discuss it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: U.S. strategy to defeat ISIS front and center this hour on Capital Hill. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel and Joint Chief's Chairman General Martin Dempsey in the hot seat. Live look there. They're in front of the House Armed Services Committee. They're having a hearing today. The defense officials are seeking more money for the war on ISIS. However, lawmakers first want some answers. Some answers about the Obama administration's plan to defeat the terror group.

BERMAN: In case you were wondering, the Band-Aid there, apparently the Defense Secretary had some kind of accident where he walked into a cabinet in his kitchen.

PEREIRA: A cabinet, interesting.

BERMAN: It happens, right? All right, now this all happens amid a new discussion about whether the administration has the right strategy to deal with ISIS. Some senior officials now tell CNN the president has asked his advisers to review the policy toward Syria, Syria not ISIS, after determining it might not be possible to defeat ISIS without removing Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. Follow the bouncing ball here, but that would be a change, a shift in Syrian policy. The official line from the White House is that this is just part of the normal review.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There's no formal strategy review of our Syria policy. What there is is a strategy for degrading and ultimately destroying ISIL, that requires us to take a hard look at what we're doing on a regular basis. And as you know, we've had regular meetings that the president has joined with his national security team on this issue. And Syria has been an important subject at those meetings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We want to bring in our global affairs correspondent Elise Labott.

Elise, your reporting has been front and center on this story. Explain to us the change here, because the administration has been saying we're going to deal with ISIS in Iraq primarily, yes, we're going to have these bombing efforts in Syria, also. But Bashar al- Assad, that's a totally different issue. Why does it seem to be changing?

ELISE LABOTT, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Okay, right, John. So they're not calling it a review, but just an ongoing recalibration. One official called it a "vigorous assessment." I think there's a realization that the administration needs to better define how the political chaos in Syria fits into the campaign against ISIS. You know, the administration had hoped to go after ISIS and Iraq first and then take on Syrian after they trained up a moderate rebel force to go after ISIS and go after Assad's forces after that.

Ultimately, developments on the ground make that untenable, the opposition fighting a two-front battle right now against ISIS and regime forces, and the opposition could really be destroyed by the time the U.S. pivots from Iraq to Syria. Coalition allies asking for a more coherent Syria strategy, basically they're talking not only about expanding the train and equip program, but also Secretary of State John Kerry trying to work with allies in the region to try and reenergize those efforts on a political transition, which would ultimately include an exit for president Assad. No one is saying that's going to happen any time soon. But those efforts, John, have kind of been on the back burner. I think they understand that that needs to be part of the overall strategy now.

BERMAN: All right Elise Labott, great reporting on this. Thanks so much.

PEREIRA: Let's get some analysis now with our Military Analyst retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, former U.S. Military attache in Syria, o this is right in your ball park. You know, I'm curious, we're hearing this, the discussion of recalibration from the White House. Recalibration or miscalculation, Lieutenant Colonel? Do you think we got it wrong, in terms of the strategy at the outset?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I do. I think that there's a reassessment going on because, as Elise was reporting, the goal was always to deal with ISIS in Iraq first and then move to take on the situation in Syria. The air campaign, rightfully so, has been focusing on ISIS as a target set, regardless of what side of the border they're on.

But when you look at the ground piece of this, it was always Iraq first, Syria second. We were going to use this free Syrian Army, the so-called moderate rebels, to be our boots on the ground and eventually take on ISIS there. We were always not concerned about what was going to happen to the Assad government. I think that was wrong because, if you look at what's going on on the ground in Syria right now, Assad knows that we're taking on ISIL, ISIS, so he has focused his efforts over the last two months with a vengeance on the free Syrian Army. He has dealt them severe blows in the province between Damascus and Aleppo and he has almost encircled Aleppo, which was a strong-hold for the free Syrian Army. So we're seeing the free Syrian Army really back on its heels. And as Elise said, they may not be there a year from now when we decide to pivot.

BERMAN: So the question is, what can you do about it? One of these ideas that's been kicked around, Colonel, is possibly some kind of a no-fly zone that might be connected to the Turkish border there. How would that work and what would that do the Bashar al-Assad and his regime?

FRANCONA: That's a really key part of this, and that's what the Turks have been asking for. They want a no-fly zone declared over Syria. Much of Assad's success has been because he control the air over Syria. And he's very effective in using his air power to degrade and really kill a lot of the free Syrian Army. Of course, he's reeked a lot of havoc on the civilian population, as well. Declaring a no-fly zone would really give the free Syrian Army a freer hand to operate.

he problem is enforcing a no-fly zone over Syria. Right now, we're fighting ISIL, we're bombing ISIL, we're going after them. We are leaving the Syrian military alone. And if we decide we're going to pivot now and go after the Syrian military, we're going to have to degrade his air defense then we're going to have to start shooting any aircraft at flight. John, I think that gets us into the realm of mission creep.

PEREIRA: Does that mean to you, do you see the potential for more troops being deployed a year from now, six months from now?

FRANCONA: I think we need to figure out -- the government needs to figure out what we're going to do in Syria. We know what the end game should look like. We just don't know how to get there. There aren't any viable boots on the ground. I don't think the free Syrian Army is going to be able to do this. So are we going to introduce some other coalition forces? Are we going to be willing to put U.S. forces there? I just don't see this administration, or any current administration on the horizon, willing to put U.S. forces on the ground in Syria. I can see what we're doing in Iraq. The Iraq policy seems to make sense. It's viable, I think it has a chance to work. Syria is a whole new ball game, and I don't think we've quite figured out how we're going to do this.

PEREIRA: All right, Rick Francona joining us. We appreciate it, as always. Good to see you.

Ahead @THISHOUR, a rock star, imagine a flight that he'll never forget. We're going to tell you what happened on board Bono's private jet ahead.

BERMAN: And then pictures like we have never seen before on earth. A spacecraft, a bouncing spacecraft, riding a comet sends back a photo shoot. Stay with us.

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