Return to Transcripts main page
At This Hour
New Message from ISIS; Bombshell Allegations Against Bill Cosby; New Charges of Government Spying
Aired November 14, 2014 - 11:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: ISIS leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, appears to have returned to social media after he was supposedly wounded from U.S.-coalition air strikes.
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: There is an audio message from a speaker claiming to be al-Baghdadi posted online. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO FEED)
ABU BAKR AL-BAGHDADI, ISIS LEADER (through translation): Erupt the volcanoes of jihad everywhere. Light the earth with fire on all of the tyrants and their soldiers.
(END AUDIO FEED)
BERMAN: CNN cannot confirm the authenticity of the message or when it was recorded. Nevertheless, it is causing quite a splash.
Our senior international correspondent, Arwa Damon, joins us live from southern Turkey.
Arwa, what's the likely impact of a message like this?
ARWA DAMON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's hard to tell at this stage. What we do understand, in this sense, is that this is ISIS really trying to firmly put out a message that its leader is alive and well. Remember, there were reports that al-Baghdadi had been injured in air strikes over the weekend. And not only is he alive and well. But that ISIS is not losing ground to the coalition, at least that is what they claim, and that they are calling for even more attacks. Whether or not there's going to be any sort of reaction to that, well, we're going to have to wait and see. Historically speaking, though, there has not necessarily been a spike in violence following leaders like al-Baghdadi putting out messages. But al- Baghdadi and ISIS are a terrorist organization like no other we've seen in recent history -- John?
PEREIRA: And this is a very, very good point, Arwa. Can you tell us more a little bit of this report that we're hearing about ISIS and the al Nusra Front planning some sort of merger?
DAMON: Well, Michaela, this is not necessarily a merger at the top- tier leadership level. The leaders of both organizations really do not necessarily get along or see eye to eye. There's been quite a power struggle between them. However, when ISIS first emerged in Syria, al Nusra did lose a significant chunk of its fighters over to the terror organization, either because they defected or quite simply because ISIS took over their areas. That defection or that pillaging of Nusra Front fighters by ISIS has been accelerated by the coalition air campaign. And what we have been seeing is that in some of the battlefields on the ground level there has been an alliance between Nusra Front and ISIS but in other parts of the country we've been seeing them in a standoff or, in fact, direct confrontation. So there's no merger at this stage but there's a shifting in the dynamics of the battlefield. And if ISIS manages to take away the bulk of Nusra Front's fighters, that will make it more powerful than it is.
PEREIRA: Showing the further complexity of dealing with that issue and that fight against ISIS.
Arwa Damon reporting from Turkey. Thanks so much for that.
Take a look at a few other headlines for you @THISHOUR.
In Mexico, a former mayor, the mayor of Iguala, Mexico, has been charged with the disappearance of 43 students. He's been charged with six counts of aggravated homicide and a count of attempted homicide. Authorities say the students were abducted by police at his direction and turned over to gang members who killed them and burned their bodies.
BERMAN: Jesse Matthew, the suspect in the killing of University of Virginia student, Hannah Graham, was in court this morning. Graham's remains were found in October. But today, Matthew is an important connection with the separate 2005 sexual assault case. He pleaded not guilty to attempted capital murder. The trial in that case has been set for March.
PEREIRA: Ahead @THISHOUR, some bombshell allegations resurfacing against iconic comedian, Bill Cosby. Wait until you hear what one of his accusers told me.
BERMAN: And charges of government spying. Outrage over a program that allows federal agents to follow your every move and watch your cell phone from the air.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: Starting allegations of rape surrounding Bill Cosby. The legendary comedian has been shadowed by sexual assault accusations for years. Now, though, an Internet post from Cosby himself has set off a frenzy on social media.
PEREIRA: For his part, Cosby and his representation have denied the allegations, but his accusers, they are not backing down.
In fact, I spoke with one of them earlier today on "New day." We'll bring you that in a moment.
But first, let's give you a back story from Ted Rowlands. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(SHOUTING)
(LAUGHTER)
TED ROWLANDS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An online publicity stunt is backfiring so badly on Bill Cosby, it's endangering the image he's spent a lifetime building. The 77-year-old comedic genius, who never swears on stage and played the wholesome Dr. Huxtable for years on "The Cosby Show," is causing years-old sexual abuse allegations to resurface.
On Monday, Cosby issued an online challenge to meme or caption a few Cosby photos, writing, go ahead, "Meme Me," which people did. "My two favorite things, Jell-O pudding and rape," was written over this photo of Cosby smiling. "Look at this whacky shirt I'm wearing. "Also I'm a serial rapist," tweeted another person.
The rapist label stems from allegations made years ago when several women came forward claiming they'd been sexual assaulted by Cosby. He was never charged with a crime but the allegations have lingered for years.
And the subject was brought up last month in a standup act by comedian, Hannibal Burris, during a show in Philadelphia where Cosby's wholesome image was mocked?
HANNIBAL BURRIS, COMEDIAN: I don't curse on stage. Yeah, but you're a rapist, so --
(LAUGHTER)
ROWLANDS: The most detailed allegations against Bill Cosby appeared in a lawsuit by 2005 by a Temple University employee who claimed she was drugged and assaulted by Cosby. Police investigated but did not charge Cosby due to lack of evidence. The civil suit was settled confidentially.
The same type of story was alleged by Tamara Green, who went public with her story nine years ago on the "Today" show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAMARA GREEN, ALLEGED RAPE VICTIM: He had gone from helping me to groping me and kissing me and touching me and handling me and, you know, taking off my clothes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROWLANDS: Cosby's representatives said they don't want to respond to old resurfacing allegations. Over the years, Cosby, through his attorneys, has repeatedly denied sexually assaulting anyone.
BILL COSBY, COMEDIAN & ACTOR: You teach them, see. You say go, attack that tree, bite it! ROWLANDS: Cosby has a new series with NBC that's supposed to debut
next year. It's unclear how, if it all, this new look at old allegations will affect not only that show but also the lasting image of a comedy icon.
Ted Rowlands, CNN.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PEREIRA: Again, we need to stress that Bill Cosby and his representative have repeatedly denied these assault allegations. We need to point that out.
Barbara Bowman spoke with me this morning on "New Day." She says the Emmy-winning comedian assaulted her multiple times when she was a teenager. I want you take a listen to what she had to say this morning.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BARBARA BOWMAN, ALLEGED RAPE VICTIM: When you're young and impressionable and placed in a very -- a highly, highly controlled environment, which I was, and brainwashed, terribly, to trust and have total 100 percent vulnerability. As a young actress he was appointed to me to groom me and mentor me through my agent. So when I was 17 in Denver, up and coming and wanting to become an actress and movie star, my agent knew him and he came out to do just that. So when I came to New York, that was all part of it was they were subsidizing my housing and my acting classes and I was doing acting work with him and I was often in private environments.
PEREIRA: You're 17 years old, you're wide-eyed, you're eager and you have somebody taking an interest in you.
BOWMAN: That's right. That's right. And because of the circumstances, like I said, it was very controlled, he zeroed right in on my vulnerabilities which was I had no father figure so there was no man to come knocking on his door to find out what's going down. And when these things started happening, I wasn't silent. I told my agent what was going down.
PEREIRA: What was the reaction?
BOWMAN: She did nothing. I believe she's as culpable as he is because in my -- inside I believe she did know what was going on so her doing nothing was a protective measure on her part.
PEREIRA: Did you tell other people?
BOWMAN: I didn't tell her -- I told her but I didn't really talk about it much because nobody was believing it. And it was -- I was in a situation, I was in New York, my job was to work hard, go to classes, don't ask questions, just be grateful for amazing opportunity, don't mess its up. So when things would come up and he would start making me uncomfortable and I knew something was going on, I would start asking questions and he'd say "you know what? You don't trust me. You've got to trust me. And, by the way, you were drunk." And I didn't drink and I certainly wasn't doing anything but exactly what I was supposed to do. In 1989, though, I did go to a lawyer. A friend talked me into doing that. Eventually, he laughed me right out of the office. It was terrible. It was a humiliating experience.
PEREIRA: Saying, what? That there was no way to prove it?
(CROSSTALK)
BOWMAN: This is ridiculous. He's Dr. Huxtable. It wouldn't happen.
PEREIRA: We have a lot of things at play here. He's America's favorite dad and people would say this doesn't square up with Mr. Cosby that we know from TV.
BOWMAN: That's exactly right. So I gave up because it was very clear to me, he said it right to my face point blank I better never ever see your face or hear your name again. So after going to my agent and going to the lawyer and getting smacked down both times, I just said he me just get on with my life, move on with my life and let it go. And in 2004 finally when one woman did have the courage to come forward and file a lawsuit, I said I will not sit in silence anymore and thinkable woman. They were dragging her through the mud, calling her a liar and dragging her through the mud. I said I believe her because it happened to me. And if I do nothing but get out there and support her and let people know that she's not lying, that is going to be my mission from here forward. I had nothing to gain by staying out in the public eye, giving my name, giving my identity to talk about this.
PEREIRA: Because then people came after you?
BOWMAN: Yes, and my statute of limitations had long run out.
(CROSSTALK)
PEREIRA: But you wanted to help someone else.
BOWMAN: That's right. I wanted to help her and I made it my mission to get out and help other victims. That's what this is all about.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: Quite a discussion.
PEREIRA: Not an easy thing for her to say. She has said that it's been a very difficult thing to come forward and publicly say but she wants to do it because she said her statute of limitations has run out.
BERMAN: It leaves so many legal questions and more than legal questions out there.
PEREIRA: Absolutely.
BERMAN: What are the implications with so many allegations swirling around there? More than a dozen accusers, no arrests. Could he be in any legal jeopardy?
PEREIRA: And what about the statute of limitations? What's the legality of all of that? We'll talk to our legal panel coming up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BERMAN: Bill Cosby under attack on social media over sexual assault allegations that have resurfaced. Several women have accused him over the years. He's repeatedly denied their accusations and he's never been prosecuted?
PEREIRA: Before we dive into the legal ramifications and issues are at hand, we have with us, entertainment and sports attorney, Domenic Romano; and HLN legal analyst, Joey Jackson.
Gentlemen, it's good to have both of you.
Domenic, I want to talk to you -- we'll talk to both of you about the statute of limitations issues here. Does this woman that I had the opportunity to speak to, Barbara Bowman, is there any legal recourse for her at all?
DOMENIC ROMANO, ENTERTAINMENT & SPORTS ATTORNEY, ROMANO LAW LLP: I think she's past both of the statute of limitations, civil and criminal statutes, so it's unlikely that she could successfully bring a claim under the circumstances. I don't think that's likely.
But in the court of public opinion, it's out there and these allegations of serial rape are quite serious and could have a substantial impact on the man's legacy and his future career.
JOEY JACKSON, ATTORNEY & HLN LEGAL ANALYST: So what happens, Michaela, is that there are exceptions with statute of limitations. They vary by state. But say it's in New York, there's no statute of limitation in New York when it relates to forcible compulsion or when the victim is physically helpless. So in the event she was drugged, that would put her in the physically incapable category. What then needs to happen, Michaela and John, is, does the prosecution believe they have enough evidence to prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.
(CROSSTALK)
PEREIRA: Because this happened in the '70s, which we know these allegations are from, that's the big question.
BERMAN: All you have is the word --
JACKSON: He said, she said.
BERMAN: -- of the accuser. Do you have any -- what other kind of evidence would you need to make a prosecution like this successful?
JACKSON: Well, you know, interestingly enough, not long ago, in Brooklyn, my client was accused of sexual improprieties dating back 10 years ago. No evidence, just the word of the victim and some corroboration of the victim. It's called recent outcry. BERMAN: But some corroboration is something important.
JACKSON: So say -- it is, John. You want as a jury, certainly when you're talking about the standard of beyond a reasonable doubt to really -- not only she's telling me but there's something more to it. And in this particular case, maybe it is if she told her agent, maybe it is if she told her friend, maybe it is that she did tell others who can say, you know what, she mentioned that to me. That's called recent outcry.
(CROSSTALK)
PEREIRA: I'm curious, we saw a lot of this with the church sex abuse scandal. A lot of these accusations were from many years ago. So where's the difference there?
ROMANO: That dealt with minors, with children. Also so circumventing the statute of limitations. This is an issue of corroboration, but it's also an issue of memory, these witnesses being believed so many years ago. 1985, allegedly, it occurred, 2005 she came out, there's a 25-year gap in there. These days we have rape kits, there's potential physical evidence preserved. Back then and so long ago, she appeared to not have told too many people at the time. Even him having access to alibi witnesses so far up, people may now be deceased, it becomes very difficult to defend as well as prosecute.
PEREIRA: Again, these are all alleged, but we know that predators will prey on people. Especially people in power, will prey on people that are seemingly helpless because they know they have enough of a circle, almost like an immunity around them. This is what is so infuriating for protecting people of sexual abuse.
JACKSON: It's a fair point, Michaela. And also what is fair is the fact that victims -- I don't know what happened in this case, if the allegations are true or untrue -- but a lot of times victims do not report immediately.
PEREIRA: But we understand why, right?
JACKSON: Absolutely. We do. That's why you don't have to report immediately. You just need some type of corroboration generally other than your word for the prosecutor to say, you know what, I think we can prove the case beyond a reasonable doubt.
And the last point, to Domenic's point, the reason you have a statute of limitation issue is for that point. So that people can have a preserved memory. So the jury can rely on what you're telling me because it happened so recently.
BERMAN: Domenic, how would you like to be NBC right now with a Bill Cosby show about to air next year?
ROMANO: That would not be good. You have people writing in, women writing in. You have women writing in to the university, to the college where he recently spoke and said, this is not cool.
PEREIRA: Queen Latifah, he was supposed to appear and it was canceled.
(CROSSTALK)
PEREIRA: Yes. Exactly. It's very interesting.
Gentlemen, thank you for helping us wade through this. It's an upsetting topic. But have to shine a light on it. It keeps resurfacing. Is there fire where there is smoke? We don't know.
Thank you both.
JACKSON: Thank you, Michaela.
Thank you, John.
PEREIRA: Ahead @THISHOUR, do you know that somebody could be listening to you when you're on your cell phone? I don't mean the person that you're talking to. There's a new report that finds the government is employing new ways to catch suspected criminals. It might freak you out a little bit. We'll discuss it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PEREIRA: A shocking invasion of privacy a necessary evil. Apparently, one way the government is trying to catch terrorists is by looking at our emails and collecting cell phone records. Now a report in the "Wall Street Journal" finds federal law enforcement agents going even further, reported flying small planes loaded with gear spying on cell phone calls.
BERMAN: I think that's the headline here, law enforcement flying Cessna planes that are listening to cell phone calls. What is going on here?
Let's bring in our justice correspondent, Evan Perez.
Evan, how does this work and whose calls are they allegedly listening into?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: John, this is a program run by the U.S. Marshals. And what they are doing is trying to find suspects that they are looking for, usually felons that are at large. There are other uses for this. For instance, similar devices were used to capture, to help find the location of el Chapo Guzman, the cartel leader, last month.
These planes have these devices that pretend or act as fake cell phone towers. All they are really capturing are data on location to try to triangulate where you might be. So your phone is in communication. Every few seconds it sends a signal to a cell phone tower to determine where you are and to say, you know, I'm still here. That's how this works.
PEREIRA: I feel like there are going to be people that are dead against this. What are we hearing from critics?
BERMAN: Right.
PEREZ: There's already another fight over another device, called the Stingray. It works very similar. Typically, law enforcement uses it in vans, going around areas trying to figure out where a suspect might be. They have to know who they are looking for. So the ACLU and other organizations have been suing over these devices because they think it's an invasion because it captures other people's devices as well.
PEREIRA: I think they would learn how truly boring I am in my down time. I really do.
(LAUGHTER)
Evan Perez, great reporting for us. Thank you. Really appreciate it.
PEREZ: Sure.
PEREIRA: And probably learned that he got a haircut.
BERMAN: Looks good that hair cut.
PEREIRA: Looking sharp.
BERMAN: That's all for us. Thanks for joining us @THISHOUR. I'm John Berman.
PEREIRA: And I'm Michaela Pereira. Have a great weekend.
"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.
