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At This Hour

12 Killed in Paris Terrorist Attack; Latest Information on Paris Manhunt; France Raises Nation's Terror Threat Level; Are Paris Terrorists French Natives?

Aired January 07, 2015 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A lot of these attacks are carried out where they expect to die and, in fact, maybe want to die as they go in and whether they set off their suicide vests or engage with police. So two things that counter-terror officials are noting very closely.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Barbara, Jim noted the groups that the United States is focused on right now. It's basically almost the entire list of the worst of the worst of the bad guys and the terrorism arena right now. What is U.S. intelligence doing right now to assist?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think what this really underscores is that it's taken them aback. There may well be information and classified channels that we, of course, don't know, but officials looking at this wide swath because they really don't know who was responsible at this point. So what they are doing is exactly what you'd expect. They're going back through everything, looking at intercepts, looking at imagery, looking at reports from perhaps agents on the ground in various places where these groups operate and what we'd all been told early this morning is so far they haven't come up with anything, any intelligence thread that suggested this pattern of attack. At least not yet.

So they've opened the aperture a bit looking at absolutely everything. In fact, the department of homeland security said, you know, it would raise the threat level here in the U.S. if it felt the necessity to do that, of course. And so far they haven't. The things that have really struck the intelligence community, as Jim was saying, is the planning, the organization. But this perhaps not a lone-wolf attack. Very targeted against a specific group of people in this media organization. This is not the so-called soft target, if you will, of just going out to a train station or buses. This is a very specific target they were going after, so this is a profile of an attack that they haven't seen before in this way.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: And the fact that they sort of melted away and were able to flee from this scene and are still on the loose is of great concern about whether they're going to try something like this again.

Barbara Starr, Jim Sciutto, our tremendous thanks.

BERMAN: Ahead for us @THISHOUR, the manhunt in and around Paris. How far did these gunmen get? What do analysts and intelligence officials say right now? What signs that they see about who these men are and how they managed to pull it off? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PEREIRA: Our breaking news, three gunmen are on the loose right now in Paris after storming the offices of a satirical magazine, killing 12 people.

BERMAN: We said on the loose in Paris. We don't know how far they may have gone by now. Just a short time ago, French authorities picked up an abandoned car in the northern outskirts of Paris. The deputy mayor told us they have evidence these men switched cars, leaving this one behind. This was the same make and model that appeared to be used by the gunmen at the scene of that that magazine.

Meanwhile, we're seeing chilling images of that attack. These images captured by eyewitnesses.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

(GUNFIRE)

BERMAN (voice-over): A witness described how two men both dressed in black, their faces obscured by hoods, entered the building in broad daylight and began shooting.

(GUNFIRE)

BERMAN: Moments later, he said, the staff at "Charlie Hebdo" was evacuated to the roof but the gunfire carried on. It wasn't long before the gunmen made their get away and the carnage was left for the world to see, journalists and police among the dead.

French officials say there were three attackers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's obviously an act of war that happened today in France. It's probably the worst terrorist attack on French soil that we have ever experienced.

BERMAN: The French President Francois Hollande swears the gunmen will be found.

FRANCOIS HOLLANDE, PRESIDENT OF FRANCE (through translation): We need to find the actors of this terrorist act. They must be arrested and brought before judges and condemned as quickly as possible. France is shocked today, a shock of an attack, a terrorist attack, there's no doubt about that.

BERMAN: Though the exact motive for this attack is still not known, what is clear is that this satirical magazine has a history of controversy.

In fact, about an hour before the attack, the magazine tweeted a cartoon lampooning the ISIS leader, who is depicted wishing his followers good health in the New Year. And three years ago the magazine's office near the famed place, Dela Bastille, was firebombed a day after claiming its editor-in-chief for the next issue would be the Prophet Mohammed.

President Obama and European leaders quickly condemned today's massacre. British Prime Minister David Cameron tweeted, "The murders in Paris are sickening. We stand with the French people in the fight against terror and defending the freedom of the press." The NATO secretary general said in a statement, "This was a barbaric attack and an outrageous attack on French freedom."

The French prime minister has now raised the nation's threat level to attack alert across the region, which includes Paris. This means all major offices, major stores, religious places and public transportation will see enhanced security as the manhunt for the killers continues.

John Berman, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: Let's turn to counter-terrorism expert, Daveed Gartenstein- Ross, senior fellow at the Foundation for Defensive Democracy. Also joining us on the phone is our law enforcement analyst and former FBI assistant director, Tom Fuentes.

Good to have you both with us.

Tom, I'll start with you.

I think many people are wondering why the city of Paris isn't shutting down. I suppose it's not logistically possible, but it doesn't seem as though -- well it does seem as though they're on high alert, we know several systems have been put in place to secure the people but talk about the challenges of shutting down a city such as Paris to conduct an investigation and search for gunmen that are on the loose.

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST (voice-over): Well, you use all kinds of resources already trying to check every railroad station and airline leaving town and every major roadway that could be driving out of town. The fact that they switched cars, I mean, that's standard procedure for garden-variety bank robbers in this country. So that's not sophisticated but it does mean you don't know what vehicle they here in at the moment, you don't know if they're still heavily armed. Possibly they've already abandoned the weapons somewhere which can't be traced back to them. They were wearing masks so we don't have the facial description of what they look like so you're really -- you're -- they'll do their standard procedures of trying to be very vigilant at the transportation areas but beyond that it's going to be really hard.

But for the better effort it's going to be towards the intelligence of who might be involved in the plot itself, going back through their signals intelligence, social media, and then in consultation with variety of intel and law enforcement sources from around the world.

Again, this is not the first attack on that magazine, the previous one in 2011. And it's not the first terror plot in France or Paris specifically going back to the major plot to blow up the U.S. embassy in September of 2001. Arrests were made. There were cells in seven European countries and in Dubai. And it got zero publicity in the U.S. because we had 9/11, which got all of the publicity, deservedly so. But that plot was thwarted the week of 9/11, multiple people were prosecuted in several countries and went to prison for that plot.

So Paris has had al Qaeda. They've had terror organizations from North Africa. They have a large Moroccan immigrant population, Algerian, who speak fluent French and Arabic both, and have been in Paris, as well as al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, and then, now inspired ISIS terrorists. So in this case when you look at who are the usual suspects, there's almost too many usual suspects.

BERMAN: Also, Daveed, some things interesting about this attack that don't look like some of the attacks we've seen before. First of all, these men appeared to have some kind of military training. I mean, the shots were all grouped very close together. They were extremely calm during this entire operation, dressed head to toe in black, the covering over their heads almost as a uniform, and then they escaped in the car. What Tom Fuentes says, switching cars is something any criminal might do, but it's not part of a suicide attack. Escaping in one car and switching to another is not part of a suicide attack. We have seen that before. What does this combination of things tell you?

DAVEED GARTENSTEIN-ROSS, COUNTER-TERRORISM EXPERT & SENIOR FELLOW AT THE FOUNDATION FOR DEFENSIVE DEMOCRACY: First of all, whether they had military training or not I think it's too early to say. I think the shot groupings are, indeed, a relevant data point. They need to look into that whether they had training, say, in Syria or whether they simply spent a lot of time on a range getting professionalized-type training. It's also possible that the shots aren't quite as professional as they're being made out to be. Often, first reports end up being a little misleading.

Secondly, yes, this is a different kind of attack. I suspect -- we don't know what their next move is, whether they have a secondary target in mind. Right now I kind of suspect that this is an urban warfare style attack. We've seen that happen in a few cities. We saw it happen in Mombasa, Kenya, we saw that happen in Mumbai, India. A small group of individuals able too wreak havoc by basically moving through a city.

They know they've brought down the full weight of French law enforcement, intelligence and counter-terrorism upon them. So my suspicion would be that they have a secondary attack planned but that's not necessarily the case. In the Boston case, you had the attackers try to carry out an attack and make a clean getaway, which, fortunately, they weren't able to do.

PEREIRA: Our thanks to Tom Fuentes and Daveed Gartenstein-Ross. Thank you so much.

BERMAN: Gunmen still at large, on the loose in Paris perhaps or maybe beyond. This has not stopped the people in Paris from planning peaceful gatherings. The largest of these gatherings takes place next hour in the same district as the "Charlie Hebdo" office where the terror attack happened. 16,000 people have signed up to attend this event.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Our breaking news this morning, the manhunt in and around Paris, perhaps, beyond for three gunmen responsible for the terror attack on "Charlie Hebdo." That's a satirical magazine in Paris and, in the past, has poked fun at the Prophet Mohammed and many other sources.

PEREIRA: We're joined by Fareed Zakaria, host of "Fareed Zakaria, GPS."

Fareed, all of us have been talking about this around the offices of CNN. I was speaking with Christine Romans, who speaks fluent French from some time there, and she was saying what she found interesting was when she heard the sounds, the audio that we've heard of the gunmen. You can hear sporadic sounds of them yelling or talking. They speak French fluently, perfect French. And from what she says, she understood, it almost sounds as though they don't have a foreign accent, that they are native speakers. Very telling.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST, FAREED ZAKARIA, GPS: This is the most significant piece of information we have right now. My French is much worse than Christine's but it also struck me. They seemed to speak idiomatic, fast, without an accent. That suggests these not people from Syria, it suggests, these are people who lived in France, probably born and brought up, probably went to school in France to have had that accent. Remember, France has the largest Muslim population in Europe. It's probably about five million people. This is a consequence of the French colonialism, Algeria, places like that, Tunisia, Morocco. And what that means is it's probably going to be much harder than people realize to find them. These are locals. They know the area. This is -- they're not going to get lost.

BERMAN: They're French in the sense that they were born and raised there that also gets to one of the other biggest terror concerns over the last year that people -- Americans, English, French, Germans -- could be traveling to the Middle East, getting radicalized, getting training, then going back to their hope countries to carry out attacks. We don't know that's what happened here but it has been a concern.

ZAKARIA: It's a concern, and it could also be that they didn't have to go somewhere to get radicalized. What we are finding increasingly is people getting radicalized on the Internet because of material they read. These people might have, in a sense, become self-radicalized. There are radical groups of Muslims within France and what -- how do you deal with the issue at so many levels? How do you deal with it at the level of these are French citizens, probably, in that case they presumably have to be accorded a certain number of rights, therefore you can't quite have the strong anti-terror response. This becomes more of a law enforcement issue and you can't really cross over into terrorism. Or can you invoke some kind of emergency -- these are the issues we'll have to grabble with.

PEREIRA: On the other side of it, too, Fareed, is, of course, the fear of Islamophobia being further fomented in Paris with such a large Muslim population. We know French people are very proud of their identity and sometimes there is confusion, misunderstanding. A great thing we heard is a French imam -- we know Secretary Kerry quoted it -- saying the journalists, the 10 journalists that were killed at the magazine today, were martyrs for liberty. So I think it's going to important to hear from Muslim leaders, leaders for peace of that nation or even around the globe condemning these attacks.

ZAKARIA: We should track this very carefully. My suspicion is we will not get the level of condemnation we want. A lot of Muslims, even moderate Muslims, have difficulty with this issue of what they perceive as blasphemy. That there is meant to be -- blasphemy is held as something very terrible. And while nobody would condone the violence, I think these moderate Muslims would be reluctant to come out --

(CROSSTALK)

BERMAN: Because they're scared?

ZAKARIA: I think because they feel like it would seem as though they were saying it's OK to blaspheme the name of the prophet. It's very important to encourage, nudge them. This is a core principle of liberty. It's very important that people have the freedom to say whatever they want and to engage in it in satirical terms. It's important to see whether these Muslim leaders come out and say what they do say.

BERMAN: Thank you so much, Fareed Zakaria.

Want to go to Deborah Feyerick, who has new details about this investigation -- Deb?

DEBORAH FEYERICK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We can tell you the information comes from a Western intelligence source being briefed on this.

The first thing, there's the video of the gunman as he approaches the car after killing the police officer. You can see the gunman sort of holding his finger up in the air. Investigators are now looking at the possibility that, in fact, he was signaling either to another car that was in the area or other individuals also telling them that they were about to pull away, that they were about to drive. He walks up to the car and holds his finger up in the air and they're looking at that very closely.

Additionally, we are being told that investigators are looking at all travel records, travel records from the last 17 days to see the possibility as to whether the gunmen may have entered the country over the holidays. They are looking at the travel records of airlines and airports, Charles de Gaulle, and looking at train stations as well.

The third thing is forensic investigators are looking very closely inside the car, although the gunmen were wearing masks and what appear to be gloves which may limit the amount of fingerprints, for example, in the vehicle, they are looking to see whether there's anything like dead skin cells or even more importantly soil signatures. We see that sneaker that fell out of the car. And they're looking at the possibility that perhaps there was some sort of soil that suggests that they may have come in from elsewhere.

Those are three areas right now that investigators are looking very closely to see if they can get any additional information, any leads on who these gunmen, at least three of them, who they may be.

PEREIRA: Deb Feyerick, some forensics will be so key here. Thanks for the latest on the investigation.

We'll take a short break and be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: These are live pictures of Paris where it is early evening there. Several hours ago, the worst terrorist attack in decades, 12 people gunned down, three gunmen, "Charlie Hebdo," a satirical magazine. Security has been beefed up at that city, beyond that city. There's a manhunt for the three people believed to be responsible for this attack.

PEREIRA: Let's bring in CNN global affairs correspondent, Bobby Ghosh.

Bobby, it's been good to have you on the air today.

They're used to a certain amount of these smaller, maybe almost more randomized attacks. This was very, very targeted. What more have you been gleaning from some of your sources? You've been talking to people. What is standing out to you?

BOBBY GHOSH, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, these people are clearly very familiar with weapons but they're not employing classic militant tactics. This business of them crossing each other's paths as they walk, right there, in the military, they frown on that kind of behavior. But on the other hand, they know how to use their weapons. There's a fairly high degree of precision in their aim.

BERMAN: And certain specificity in the target?

GHOSH: Absolutely. They knew where they were going. They didn't attack "Charlie Hebdo" a year ago when there was much more protection. So this was a specific target. It was a target of -- and also a specific time to pick this time. Today is the day the magazine comes out. Today's the day, as we know in our lives, you have editorial meetings. So this is a small magazine.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: The staff is all gathered.

GHOSH: They work from home. Today was a day that there were ten people in the office. We'll find out whether they knew this. But the early guessing is that they probably did. This was not random. This was not a random target nor a random date, specific target, specific date.

PEREIRA: The effects of this being acutely felt in Paris, but is rippling across the globe. We were just talking to Fareed a second ago about the importance of condemnation from leaders around the world. We've heard President Obama issued a statement, the secretary of state, the queen, the pope is apparently set to call the archbishop in Paris. It is important to hear the condemnation from Muslim leaders. Do you anticipate it will come?

GHOSH: It's already coming. It's all over the place. Individuals on Twitter and social media flooded the zone with condemnations.

The point everyone's making is this, there's nothing more offensive to Muslims than somebody killing innocent people in the name of the religion. That's more offensive than depicting the prophet in a cartoon. The Arab League issued a condemnation. The mosque, the most important mosque in Sunni Islam, issued a condemnation. The government of Saudi Arabia has issued a condemnation.

It is a sad fact of life now that when an attack like this happens, we already know, if you like, there are press releases ready to go on the "send" button, but that's the nature of the world we live in now.

BERMAN: Bobby, a little less than a minute left. To whom is blasphemy, to whom is a cartoon, a satirical cartoon, is offensive that it is worthy of mass murder?

GHOSH: No, let's not give these terrorists the benefit of analyzing their offense-taking. These are people who are murders, who are intent on violence and murder. The vast majority of Muslims, yes, it is true that in their faith, to depict the prophet is not allowed. But then that doesn't mean that this is the appropriate response for it. Everybody agrees, I think, across the Muslim world that this is not an appropriate response if you take an offense to such a thing.

PEREIRA: Killing innocents is also an offense.

GHOSH: A bigger one.

PEREIRA: A much greater one. Bobby Ghosh, we appreciate that you join us today here AT THIS HOUR.

I'm Michaela Pereira. That will wrap it up for us today.

BERMAN: Yes, I'm John Berman. Our continuing coverage continues right now.