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At This Hour

Authorities Extend Terror Threat Alert in Paris;Terror Suspects Previously Known to French Officials; Three Gunmen Loose in Mountrouge

Aired January 08, 2015 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Hello everyone. I'm John Berman.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN HOST: And I'm Michaela Pereira.

BERMAN: And we do have breaking news in the Paris terror attack. Heavily armed police are massing right now on a country road leading to the village of Longpont. This is about 65 miles northeast of Paris. The big question, are they closing in on the suspects?

Both men reportedly were spotted at this service station north of the capital. Police have no set up checkpoints about 12 miles in each direction around that gas station. French media say the heavily armed suspects robbed that place overnight.

Authorities have identified these men as brothers Cherif and Said Kouachi, both men in their early 30s. They have been on the run since killing 12 people at the offices of the satirical magazine "Charlie Hebdo" yesterday.

PEREIRA: Just a short time ago, the Paris prosecutor's office announced the fatal shooting of a police woman in a southern suburb is also being treated as a terrorist attack. That shooter in that incident got away, and authorities have not said if those two with incidents are related.

But witnesses say the gunman was hooded and dressed in all black just like the Kouachi brothers during their shooting rampage.

Our Atika Shubert is on the move. She is near the village where there appears to be this heavily armed police presence. She joins us by phone right now.

Atika, bring us up to date. You're on the move, as police are. What's the latest on this manhunt?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): I'm actually at the road that leads to Longpont right now. It's right off the N2 highway here. It's the closest that police will let us go to what appears to be those police -- heavily armed police that are amassing in the area.

Now, we can't see them from the location we're at. We do know they went in earlier.

Now, we don't know if they located the two suspects. This is an area -- it's a very rural, farm area. And there's also a very heavily wooded forested area around here. it's several thousand hectares, so a huge, huge forest in this area. And it could be that the two suspects are somewhere in that area, and they're combing, searching that sort of -- the forest.

Now, we've seen helicopters circling overhead. We know that the police kind of SWAT teams went in, but that's all we have at this point.

BERMAN: Atika, I understand there's activity going on. Please cut me off at any second if you see something developing here.

But let me ask you in the meantime about this activity at the gas station overnight. It's believed that these men, these brothers, tried to rob this gas stakes and then drove off?

SHUBERT (via telephone): Yes. That's the understanding that they arrived --

(AUDIO BREAK)

SHUBERT (via telephone): -- and this is from the gas attendant, who says -- we did not speak with him directly, and French police won't confirm this, but what local media reports from their sources is that they arrived around 10:30 in the morning, were heavily harmed, held the gas attendant up at gunpoint, and then took the fuel and food that they needed and left in the direction of Paris.

Now, when I was at the gas station earlier, what I did see was about 30 police, many of them -- some of them armed with pistols, many of them plainclothes, kind of sifting through materials inside the shop.

And there was a forensics van parked outside. They were bringing material in and out. There were several CCTV cameras, and they appeared to be viewing possibly video inside the shop near the cash register.

So, clearly police take it -- took it very seriously, and it does appear that the gas attendant recognized the two suspects and immediately called the police up. And that's how they were tipped off that they were in the area.

PEREIRA: Atika, I'm curious, again, just give us an idea of where this lies in relation to where you are now to where you were at the gas station.

So the gas station was north of Paris -- there's the map there -- because a lot of folks aren't really familiar with the French countryside.

SHUBERT (via telephone): Sure. The gas station is Villers-Cotterets, which is about an hour and a half to two hours north of Paris. Another 12 kilometers northeast from there is the very small village of Longpont.

And this is, again -- it's a very rural area of northern France. I can see farmhouses and open fields, but also a very thickly forested area just around here. I believe it's the (inaudible).

This is an area where, if they wanted to, they could ditch the car and hide in a forest very easily. And so this is going to make it quite time consuming for police to actually find the exact location, kind of sweep through, and try and figure out exactly where they are.

BERMAN: Atika, we can now report that this area where you are, the highest terror alert level has now been extended to that area. French officials have extended that highest terror level alert to that area where you are north of Paris.

This is interesting, of course, because you said they would not confirm the activity at the gas station or exactly what's going on near where you are.

But with this news that the terror alert has been raised to the highest level and with what you have seen, which is an enormous amount of activity in and around that area, at a minimum, we know there is a great deal of focus there right now.

SHUBERT (via telephone): That's correct. And what's interesting is we've seen convoys going back and forth, some of them very heavy tactical units, for example. Earlier, there were these heavily armed police, kind of SWAT teams, that went on this small country road here. And we've seen helicopters circling overhead.

Having said all that, even though we're at the highest level of that sort of security warning, and we've stopped to talk with the head mistress of the school here, and she said she's been given no special orders to close the school early. Everything was operating as normal, even though she was aware of this increased police presence.

So clearly they're trying to keep things as normal as possible. At the same time they're blocking off traffic to anyplace where they think they're trying to search for the two suspects.

So things are tense here, but people are trying to get on with life as normal.

PEREIRA: Atika, quickly, I'm curious about that. Talk about the work- a-day people. You make a very good point. This is an area that likely doesn't see this kind of major police presence or operation happening in their midst.

Are there people gathered? Are police trying to keep people moving along? Have you spoken with other people in the community?

SHUBERT (via telephone): Yeah, you know, interestingly, this is an area, again, very rural France. We were just in (inaudible) earlier this morning. They were doing raids overnight. That's an area known for growing champagne. So this is not an area that would have expected to see this kind of police activity, much less two terror suspects coming in with their car.

Now one of the reasons that we understand from security analysts that we may be seeing it in this area is that the two suspects may have been trying to avoid the main toll roads, taking country back roads, trying to avoid police or avoid being photographed, for example, at toll booths. So that may be why we're seeing it here.

Now with the members of the community we've spoken here, they're shocked, they can't believe that this is happening, and of course, seeing the brutality on the streets of Paris that they saw yesterday and fully support the police action they've been seeing.

But nobody knows what's going to happen next. And that's what makes them worry.

PEREIRA: Atika Shubert, thank you so very much.

Again, point out, nightfall about to arrive there and make their work difficult, but also make the work of the men trying to hide themselves more difficult as well.

BERMAN: Yeah, the important thing there, there's a lot going on right where Atika is right now, an intense level of police activity. She's seen convoys driving by.

Atika will check back in with us the minute she sees or hears more.

In the meantime, one of the crucial questions is who are these men? Who are these brothers suspected of mass murder?

Yes, we know their names, Cherif Kouachi and his brother, Said, but what are their backgrounds, and what connections might they have had that lead them to do this?

Joining us now, our CNN international correspondent Nic Robertson. These two brothers, we know they were both born in France to Algerian parents. One guy was a pizza delivery boy, a fish monger for a time. Who are these men?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The lawyer of one of them, representing Cherif, in fact, in a trial where he was accused of recruiting young men, himself even accused of planning of going to Iraq via Syria to join the fight there back in 2008, his defense lawyer said, look, this guy is a poor kid from a poor neighborhood; he's more of a pot smoker and a dreamer than he is a radical Islamist. But events do seem to have shaped him in a very different way.

These are two men who have now a decade-long association, it appears or is appearing, in radical Islamist circles, of course, that plan to go to Iraq and join al Qaeda in Iraq at that time.

And back at that time, Cherif had said that he was radicalized or his views were changed because of the photographs that he saw coming from the U.S.-run Abu Ghraib jail outside of Baghdad, the torture there, the apparent torture of detainees, of Muslim detainees. And this was something that radicalized him.

But we're talking over a decade ago. This pair have continued, it seems, to have run in radical circles and continue this sort of reinforced vision that they need to fight. There are reports that we don't have confirmed yet that they may have even gone to Syria. These are unconfirmed at this time, being reported by some news organizations.

So all these things have to be checked out in greater detail.

PEREIRA: Yeah, it brings up questions about their, you know, disenfranchisement among the Algerian immigrant community there, et cetera.

I want to ask about this third suspect. Details seem to be a little confusing on this third suspect who turned himself in to police. Tell us what you know at this point about this young man, an 18-year-old, correct?

ROBERTSON: Eighteen years old, and shortly after he was identified, he turned himself in because he heard his name being identified. According to colleagues at school, he was at school in the afternoon, and the implication by that would be that he wasn't a guilty party in this.

It would appear if the two brothers were the gunmen, then this 18- year-old would apparently have been potentially the driver, the getaway driver, in this, but again, this isn't clear. And the fact that friends have been tweeting that he was actually at school that day when he turned himself in does raise questions.

But, undoubtedly, although we have these three -- these three people have been identified now as being suspects, this one turning himself in, the net and the number of people police are looking for in association with these is probably much wider, and we'll likely get more names coming forward in the days ahead as well.

BERMAN: All right, Nic Robertson, so many questions still remain out there, thank you so much for that.

Again, we are getting reports of intense police activity in the Picardy region, which is north of Paris. Our Atika Shubert is there. She's seeing convoys of law enforcement drive past her. So there's something going on not far from where she is. We will check back in and get a situation check from her as soon as we can.

Meanwhile, ahead for us @THIS HOUR, how will they track these men? How have they been doing it? The DNA, the forensics, the travel records. We'll dig deeper.

PEREIRA: And, standing in solidarity, cartoonists around the globe showing that the pen is, indeed, mightier than the sword. You've probably seen some of these, using their freedom of expression to show support for the victims.

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BERMAN: We have some new video just in to CNN right now. Look at this. This is police activity in the town of Longpont, which is in France, north of Paris. Our Atika Shubert has been near there, seeing convoys of law enforcement officials, and you can see them for yourself right now driving by, clearly something going on there, looking for something.

The terror alert level in this region has now been raised to its highest level. Before, it was just in the Paris area. Now that highest level has been extended to this town, Longpont. This is to the west of the gas station that one gas station attendant says was robbed overnight by the two suspects, the Kouachi brothers, right now. He says they were armed, at gunpoint. The men drove off, and now those pictures you just saw of intense police activity in Longpont, north of Paris.

PEREIRA: Joining us now, CNN law enforcement analyst Tom Fuentes and Foria Younis, former FBI agent on the Joint Terrorism Task Force. The two of you together are going to be fantastic to talk us through what we've just been witnessing.

Tom, I want your expertise. Because I know what we see when we see all of this going on. I'm curious, by watching what we have just seen -- the video that John was showing us, the report that Atika Shubert was giving us about this increased presence, this highest level of alert. What is your sense? Do you feel that French authorities are close to getting their guys?

TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: I don't know about that. But Michaela, what brothers me about it is that cameraman and those reporters have no business being that close to heavily armed police about to engage in an operation. If somebody sticks their head out one of those apartment windows and opens fire, you're going to have more dead journalists before this is over, if that's how they do business.

BERMAN: Foria, you know, we appreciate Tom's point there, but those pictures do exist. We're bringing them to our audience right now to show them the activity that's going on in the region. Let me ask you what your sense of what French officials are now doing. What is French law enforcement doing? They're checking every cellphone record they have from the region where they believe that these two men live. The forensics, the dirt, the tire tracks, the car that they impounded that the men apparently used to get away from the crime scene yesterday. Give us a sense of what they're doing right now.

FORIA YOUNIS, FORMER AGENT, JOINT TERRORISM TASK FORCE: John, you're absolutely right. They're probably evacuating certain neighborhoods and certain streets, they probably have the numbers, the telephone numbers, of these individuals. They may be communicating with them. They're going to be checking every connection to see if there's others out there, if there's other radicalized individuals that are out there. They're tracking them down. They're doing the street by street hunting of these two terrorists that have killed so many people. And they're going to continue to work at this until they capture these individuals. And most likely, these two brothers are probably on a suicide mission, also, and they're going to keep killing as many individuals as they can until they're captured or killed. PEREIRA: Tom Fuentes, it was interesting to see how many developments

were made overnight, from the impounding of that car, they combed through that looking for forensics, the luck in finding that dropped I.D. Talk to us about how forensics will play such a key part and how they've really forwarded this investigation along?

FUENTES: Since they have the video placing them in that vehicle and that vehicle at the scene of the crime, of the actual murder of the journalists, they'll be taking hairs and fibers and skin particles, other DNA evidence from that vehicle. These guys might not have their DNA on record at this point, but if they get -- once they're apprehended, then they can take samples from them and compare it back to the vehicle, back to the crime scene itself inside the offices, and that's what will help prove. Because right now, you can't really identify them by their faces with the masks that they're wearing. But the DNA will link them, hopefully, to the inside of the offices, to the inside of that car and then to them personally once they're apprehended.

BERMAN: Foria, these men - these two suspects are bothers. Does that work as a limiting factor here because they won't have to communicate, in theory, by text or email, they can just talk to each other. Or does it open up doors? Can they start talking to family members? Does it make that search easier?

YOUNIS: Well, I think the fact that they know who these two individuals are and the fact they're brothers makes it a little bit easier for the police officers. These two brothers are acting together. So how they planned it, where did they go, in terms of planning this, who else has been closely communicating with them? All of this is going to come into play. The issues are the same, whether you look at the Australian attack, whether you look at the Boston bombing attack. They are westernized, radicalized individuals who are carrying out these violent extremist attacks against individuals or companies that they want to stop publishing or stop them from existing. So this idea of radicalization continues to be a significant issue for Western police departments.

BERMAN: Tom Fuentes, Foria Younis, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate your insight.

PEREIRA: One thing we know, these suspects took 12 lives, one of them was 80-year-old cartoonist Georges Wolinski. One of his three daughters posted this tribute to him on Instagram. Hopefully we'll have the picture here in a second. There it is. A picture of his empty desk. The cartoonist was known mostly by his last name. She posted this picture with these words, which we'll leave you with, "Dad is gone, but not Wolinski."

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BERMAN: We do have new video just in to CNN a short time ago. This is the village of Longpont, which is north of Paris. You can see this intense law enforcement activity there. You see that vehicle, you see the heavily armed law enforcement officers right there involved in some kind of operation. The terror alert level in that region has been raised to the highest level. Before that level was just in and around Paris, now to the north, to the Picardy region, where this is right now. Clearly something going on there. Our Atika Shubert is standing by near there and will alert us when she gets any information.

PEREIRA: She's not far from this rural area, where she mentioned there's a wooded forest area, obviously of great concern to authorities on the ground. So the killers in Paris have done more than just murder cartoonists, they've managed to galvanize a nation. About 30 Je Suis Charlie marches are planned tonight across Paris, a cross trance, it is a sign of solidarity and support for the people of "Charlie Hebdo" magazine. Then rain today in Paris did not stop large, large crowds from gathering to pay their respects. They observed a moment of silence. At times, all you could hear were the bells of Notre Dame.

What was particularly moving to all of us here in the studio as we watched this happen, as the silence ended, that crowd broke into thunderous applause, very moving moment. Our senior international correspondent Jim Bittermann is in Paris. We have been seeing the resilience of the Parisian people, we've also been witnessing, Jim, both online and in newspapers around the world, powerful expressions, both of grief, solidarity, and certainly the resilience of the Parisian people.

JIM BITTERMANN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORESPONDENT: The fact is, Michaela, I think this kind of brings out the best in people. We've - out here at the scene where this took place yesterday, we've seen a steady stream of people today come forward with flowers and notes and that sort of thing, just about a half hour ago here, there was a great sign of religious unity with a modern imam from the northern suburb of (INAUDIBLE) has been speaking out very strongly to his fellow Muslims about the fundamentalism that he's seen and how horrified he is at it.

And he was standing right next to one of the leading Jewish philosophers here in France, (INAUDIBLE), the two men talking about the need for unity. President Hollande, of course, talked about unity in his speech last night and he's talked about it all day today, had religious leaders coming together. He had a show of religious, rather political, unity with the former president, President Sarkozy, who invited to the presidential palace, the first time Sarkozy had been back to the presidential palace since 2012. All of it to kind of get a feeling among the French that they should unify around these attacks and make sure that they do the utmost to prevent any further attacks from happening down the line.

Having said all of that, Michaela, we had this other attack this morning in the southern suburb of Mountrouge. And in fact, there are now three gunmen that are on the loose out there, including the one who shot and killed a policewoman this morning in Mountrouge. She was just directing traffic around a traffic accident, a gunman got out of a car and started shooting and shot and killed her. The police don't have any leads in that. However, the prosecutor's office say that they're treating that incidents, as well, as a terrorist incident. Michaela, John? BERMAN: Jim, that solidarity that you've been talking about is so

needed, given that there is still so much activity going on, this moment of terror not over yet. Let's talk a little bit more about that second incident, that disturbing incident overnight, when a police officer was shot and killed. Are officers saying anything about -- I heard the person was dressed all in black using an automatic weapon. That doesn't seem like a random shooting at a traffic stop, Jim.

BITTERMANN: No, it does not. People shooting at police, that's very rare in France. And I think that it was just an added shock here. I think people felt that maybe things were getting out of control. You're right. I mean, I think that this is not over yet. We have to find the two gunmen that were involved here, but also this other gunman who is out there and he was all dressed in black. He had a semiautomatic weapon, according to witnesses. So it's very much of the same pattern. If there's nothing that we know of to link these two events, but still very, very suspicious, it could be a copy cat kind of a thing. But at this point, we just don't know. And the investigators are hot on the trail, but whether they'll be able to track these guys down is another thing. John?

BERMAN: Jim Bittermann, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

PEREIRA: Ahead here, in this era of technology in almost all of our hands, it's hard to imagine how people could hide these days. We're going to talk more about how these suspects managed to keep themselves under ground for so long and how they're staying hidden now.

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